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Last Time on the "The One Where Karma Is a Bitch" Edition…
> Dan Avidan continues to prove that the 80's really happened by never maturing past that time period
> People continued questioning if his relationship with Ash was real or if we all needed to get her mental health checked out by a professional
> There has yet to be a single person to figure out what the fuck Kati is talking about with her plays
> Fans continue attacking the great mythological Heidi for ruining everything good in the world
> WoTC finally OFFICIALLY cancelled 'Dice, Camera, Action', and the fanbase collectively lost their goddamned minds. Holly handled it surprisingly well publicly, but Jared tried to get the fanbase to turn on WoTC by saying "I tried to save it - but they didn't want to!!"
> Jared began having Holly on his streams, just in case anyone left in the gaming world was unaware (or even cared) that they were still together
> Holly posted a "What advice do you have for me?" message, and less than a full week later, went on a twitter rant about how happy she is and how awful sites like lolcow are for apparently not wanting her to be happy
Image Credit: >>907745
Thread Credit: >>914128
Previous Threads (The ProJared Saga Begins):
Character Descriptions and Stats:
Jared "the Wormdick" Knabenbauer>Known for having a gaming youtube channel where he reviewed games>Formed "Waffle crew", the D&D group that would soon turn out to be a dumpster fire>All hell broke lose when his ex-wife revealed he has been manipulating, abusing and cheating on her>Soon after, other victims of his started leaking chat logs and nudes>Turns out he was soliciting underage porn >Went into hiding>Throughout DCA, his D&D character, Diath, was having an on-going romance with Strix, his co-player Holly Conrad's character>Turns out they were also involved IRL, cheating on their spouses>Holly is currently whiteknighting him on twitter, while he is trying to manipulate his side-pieces from the shadows>One of his side-pieces fell for it and now is changing her initial statement, trying to get on his good side (even though he ghosted her before)>Heidi accuses Jared of threatening legal action if she speaks up. Unfortunately Heidi casts “Absorb Elements” just like she did for his initial divorce statement. Jared takes an extra 1d6 damage on her next melee attack.
Charisma: send noOds
Holly "Manic Pixie Butterface" Conrad (current power-level):>Got into D&D, started thinking she's literally Strix - her character>Cheated on Ross with Jared the Wormdick while trying to manipulate both Jared and his wife>Once Heidi (Jared's wife) revealed her as a side hoe, she locked down everything and checked into the tumblr hospital>After getting back on the net, she started autistically defending herself and Jared, claiming she never cheated and Heidi is literally Hitler>Professional victim, her NPD can be seen from space>Emotionally abused Ross, claimed she never felt love until she met Jared>Claims to have not cheated on her ex-husband despite his refusal to make one comment about the situation in her defense>Can't stand even tiny criticism about herself, reads her lolcow thread though>Compared Etika’s suicide, a popular black YouTuber, to her own suicidal ideation by showcasing they both received clown emojis as “bullying.” >Suffers backlash from the black community, Etika’s fans and Twitter>After being called out for taking advantage of a person’s suicide, Holly infamously deflects criticism by tweeting, “I’m sorry. I’m mentally ill.”
Luck: ran out
Charisma: clown emoji
Holly Conrad’s Previous Stats:>Holly is a “talented cosplayer/craftsman/special effects artist and well respected in the community”, even appearing on Syfy's "Heroes of Cosplay">Was one of the main focuses of the 2011 Documentary "Comic-Con Episode IV: A Fan's Hope" (directed by Morgan Spurlock)>Originally gained notoriety for her Commander Shepard/FemShep cosplay>Married to Ross O'Donovan, beloved animator and member of the GG Family, from 2012 to 2018>When it came to Arin/Suzy vs Ross/Holly most people preferred Ross and Holly, because they felt less fake and Holly was famous separate of Ross, not riding her husband's coattails like Suzy.>Was best buds with Jared's wife Heidi, another talented and respected cosplayer/craftsman>Apparent tragic backstory = quirky anxiety uwu. I don't really know the whole backstory on this one, not sure if it really matters. >But was apparently close to her grandfather and inherited his house(?) in Washington(?) when he passed away which was in theory part of the reason she and Ross amicably split. Jared and Heidi just also happened to live in Washington.>Other speculated factors included Holly being asexual (lmao), the toxic GG fan-community, "having codependency issues", and wanting to leave LA while Ross wanted to stay>Publicly their divorce was mutual, amicable, and came as somewhat of a shock….OR WAS IT?>Basically all this drama is so juicy because Holly "quirky manic pixie dream bird gurl, asexual anxiety, luvs animals so obviously wouldn't hurt anyone uwu" Conrad was the surprise plot twist villain we never saw coming
For More On Holly Conrad:>A History of Holly: >>838840 (Source: PULL)
Charisma: Not Suzy
Heidi of the House O'Ferrall, Hell Hath No Fury, Giver of Zero Fucks, Destroyer of Careers>Non-lewd cosplayer, talented craftsman and elf >Produces tutorials and shows her work in progress pretty in depth>Has a degree in Theatre/Costume Design>"She had sex with my husband", top 10 anime deaths of all time>Married to Jared Pedodick Knobslob>Was in a poly relationship with Jared>Claims Holly was the reason it didn’t work out >Outed Jared’s infidelity and set twitter ablaze>Working on her current divorce and perhaps a defamation against Holly Conrad for trying to claim she had BPD and that psychologists have deemed her “unfixable” >Has started to become more vocal on that drama since Holly’s Etika sperg>Claims emotional abuse by Jared and gas lighting, and also seems to insinuate her enjoyment of sex has decreased>Blocks overtly sexual cosplays because of the ProJared controversy >Currently living alone in a new home and trying to start up her business and craft in a way to support herself>Accuses Holly of being vindictive enough to have done everything in her power to end her marriage and happiness
Dan Pirro from the Honorable House Pigeon>Dedicated white knight of Jared and Holly’s that created a campaign to prove #heidingthetruth>In direct contact with Holly Conrad Flying Monkeyhttps://twitter.com/SweetestRads
Jessica Slater from the Honorable House Pigeon >Holly stan and dedicated “sister” https://twitter.com/CupcakeValkyrie >Runs a clearly objective truth blog on tumblr while putting down Heidi on twitterhttps://jaredhollyheiditruth.tumblr.com
Participation Trophies go to the following for their dedication:>Denica >BorkScorpion, RainbowTressym, TigerNightmare, UnicornHoodlum and others>May or may not be sockpuppet accounts>Tier 3 WKs, to be mostly ignored>Autism awareness is sometimes being aware of who to avoid
>Holly Conrad/Commander Holly:https://www.instagram.com/commanderholly/https://twitter.com/HollyConradhttps://www.youtube.com/user/CommanderHolly
The Expanded Universe:
Previous GG Threads:**>Jon vs Dan speculations, are the Suzy nudes real or fake, blah blah blah, old news. Seriously, don't ask to be spoonfed this old dried up milk. Go read about it on your own. >There is a whole subreddit dedicated to GG Rule 34 where they sexualize the girlfriends/wives as well as the grumps called r/polygrumps. Suzy once long ago tweeted in support of polygrumps, but it seems like an especially toxic corner of their already toxic fanbase. I doubt she would confirm that support today.>GG sells a merch line called Game Gyaru "based on Arin and Danny, reimagined as female characters inspired by the anime series Dirty Pair, named Arina and Daniella respectively". It's a blatant tracing of the characters from "Dirty Pair" that they did not initially acknowledge.>GG release body pillows of Dan and Arin. They sell out very quickly. It's gross: >>792883>Guess what Jon's an even worse blatantly sexist/racist person than we ever could have imagined>Katie/Suzy/deviantART
Suzy "the Goose" Berhow:>Has a history of scamming fans by buying cheap jewelry from China and the likes and reselling it to fans with an absurd markup as her jewelry line or as one anon put it: "creating a really expensive jewelry line that involved very little effort on her part". Arin has to come to her defense when people find out.>Previous threads over the years were mostly about Suzy's "thyroid-related" weight gain and absurd styling choices, scamming, and how she's a ~rEaL gAmEr GuRl~ >No one seems to really have complaints about her current styling choices since she lost weight and the skunk stripe and adopted a more natural look (it's much closer to her twin sister Jean's)>Suzy was a "model" when younger, and will still constantly repost the same pictures from her past over and over again, in case anyone forgot>There sometimes seemed to be some unspoken tension between Suzy and Holly. Suzy seemed to give off the vibe of being uncomfortable not being the only cool gamer gurl in the GG group, especially when up against a girl that seemed to prefer and respect.>Seems plausible that she prefers being the female center of attention given the theory that JonTron's swift and dramatic departure from GG was due in part to some beef between Suzy and Jon's girlfriend at the time. IIRC this is still all just speculation. (Jon's too big of a topic, read that one on your own for the full backstory)>A/N: I would be kind of surprised if she showed any support for Holly at all, but maybe that's just me
Katie (Most recent GG drama unrelated to PigeonGate 2019 ):>Suzy claims she and Arin have been together since 2002. Arin's mysterious deviantART ex Katie shows up from an apparent cryogenic sleep after 10+ years and throws an insane hissy-fit about how Arin was pursuing HER during that time and she turned HIM down. >Thinks Suzy poisoned Arin against being her BEST FRIEND despite the fact that she was married, disappeared from the internet, lived across the country, and was definitely leading Arin on for some time. Arin seems to have bought her some gifts in this time.
>Minor cow Katie, rejected Arin way back when and regrets it now that he's famous:https://twitter.com/dropsofviolet
About Dice, Camera, Action:>DCA is/was a popular D&D livestream DM'd by Chris Perkins (WoTC story designer)>It's cast consisted of Holly Conrad, Jared Knabenbauer, Nathan Sharp and Anna Prosser >All of them turned out to be cheaters, hooking up with each other and breaking marriages/engagements
>Wafflecrew/Dice, Camera, Action:http://yt.vu/a1ZbgywIF6Yhttps://twitter.com/livewafflecrewhttps://twitter.com/NateWantsToBtlhttps://twitter.com/AnnaProsser
Filed Under “Other”:
Do Not Bother Ross O’Donovan>Game Grump and animator
You May Support and Subscribe at: >Ross O'Donovan/RubberNinja:https://twitter.com/RubberNinjahttps://www.youtube.com/user/RubberNinjahttps://www.instagram.com/rubberninja/
Reminder from Mods:>Subjects have to be 16+ to be discussed on lolcow. Do not include Holly's 15 year old friend’s face or social media posts here. >This is also a reminder that cowtipping is also against the rules, do not contact the girl or her parents because of her relation to Holly.>Keep whiteknight posting to when they actually spill milk.
That's just it, Anon. Holly is desperate for attention - The good attention from her fanbase makes her all warm and fuzzy, but the bad attention fuels her need for sympathy since she knows her fans will rush to comfort her.
It's the classic narcissistic "Adore me!" trait.
It's the dumbest shit. "I want them to stop talking about me that's why I'm going to mention them and the fact that I lurk there."
Everyone with common sense should be questioning that cunt on why she's constantly coming here.
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Do any of y’all ever notice that after sperging about getting hate, Holly tries to tweet the most mind-numbingly normal, ordinary things?
You don’t just get to whine and then pretend “nah I’m happy, I don’t let the haters get to me!”. Nobody’s buying it, Hoelly
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Oh god, the fucking irony in Holly “YOURE AN ABUSER - PSYCH I JUST SAID THAT CAUSE YOU YELLED AT ME!” Conrad saying that being mean is rude is just intense.
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No, you dumb bitch, it was also you defending your gross and Predatory boy toy that cheated on his wife with you and god knows how many fans, in addition to soliciting nudes,
Gotta love how Holly & her WKs keep complaining about how 'outdated' marriage
…Almost like they're trying to justify something, eh?
Are you fucking kidding me???
I guess Holly just hasn't gotten any asspats and/or money lately, so she needs to milk it some more!
Why doesn't she shut the fuck up and go do what she keeps preaching about.>>914192
It's a site filled with mostly women and it isn't an accusation if it's true. She's legit retarded, I mean "mentally ill".>>914193
They do. KF is laughing at her for these tweets.>>914198
I forgot all about Sam. You're right, she got kicked out for trying to be the third wheel in a "poly" marriage in Washington where the guy was also a pedo that got half-naked photos from young girls and fans. Damn, she and Hoelly have a lot in common.
Clout Chasing Garbage Pail*
Fixed it for you, Anon. She’s a 30+ year old woman, acting like a petty ass 12 year old who stomps their foot when they don’t get their way
This is such cringy bullshit. She wants a pat on the ass for walking to the store? Kids walk through treacherous terrains and deserts to go to school. Her rich, pathetic ass needs to get over herself. She's too old for this childish shit.>>914214
Telling her to stop making a person's suicide about herself is silencing the witch.
I just can’t get over this. She weaponised the “crazy evil woman who tries to ruin her innocent husband’s life” trope (when actually Jared ruined his own career by sexually exploiting his fans), encouraged MRAs to harass Heidi, accused victims
of her sexpest boyfriend of lying for attention and happily associated herself with fucking Keemstar and she’s claiming to be the victim
of sexism? Shut the fuck up, Holly.
Makes me wonder what Dan and Holly's friendship is like now and if she legit hates Ash. She mentioned during a stream that during the divorce process he kept checking in on her.
Reminds me that all of Ash's interactions with Suzy have been awkward as fuck. Only woman in the Grumpsphere who seems to like her is Allie.>>914212
And that's the thing - we have proof positive there was emotional infidelity going on at the very least before Jared and Heidi divorced. They both cheated, there are even texts where Hoelly tells Heidi she needs to confess the emotional affair to Ross. It's also all but substantiated that Jared was cheating on the both of them with random fans.
She can pretend that they're all free and happy in their new boho pigeon-filled life, but happy people don't hatesearch themselves. She wants to cause herself emotional pain for a reason, or couldn't stand that most of the thread had turned into pointing and laughing at Dan and Ash.>>914320
Holly's only a feminist when preaching about herself or strangers. Women she hates are unfixable and horrible.
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Appreciate the sentiment, though there's another Australian you never apologized for screwing over.
This doesn't make up for it.
It’s all fake anyway we know she’s an empty husk of a person pretending to have feelings.
It’s why her sexual awakening was based around roleplaying and not having an actual human connection to someone.
>"the texts about Holly telling Ross something was not about emotional cheating, it was about the polyamory offer"
Fun fact: If you're considering polyamory and have literally NO IDEA how your husband would react to the offer, you've already crossed an emotional line with this other person.
>"She said she has to talk with Ross before anything else"
Which she should have done before even CONSIDERING the idea of fucking a mutual friend and coworker. You don't go to your spouse like "Hey babe, I've been seriously thinking of fucking my married coworker and they've offered to open their relationship so that I can do so. Thoughts?"
You talk to your spouse first, full stop.
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It's funny to me because it was not long ago that Holly whined how WotC won't have her back.
Because Wizards of the Coast, a company geared towards children, wouldn't mind being affiliated with a woman who complains publically about gossip sites calling her a cheater "because it's apparently 1645."
Looking at Jared's liked tweets, looks like he is ready to send out his wormdick again. Holly is modern though so I'm sure she is fine with being cucked ( ° ʖ °)
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Surprised people like this are still allowed on Twitter…
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>"She was spending the night with her boyfriend"
…Got any proof of that, hon?
Don't think it even matters at this point, that ship sailed along time ago.
Though I feel people will still be arguing about it up until or even beyond the day that Jared, Heidi and Holly have all died of old age.
“Do you have any proof that he was crossing your boundaries?”
Motherfucker, if a person says “hey, you’re crossing my boundaries”, that is literally all that’s required. She doesn’t have to write a ten page dissertation to the general public, proving that her husband made her uncomfortable.
Also, how exactly was Heidi spending the night with a boyfriend when said boyfriend lived in an entirely separate state? Her partner didn’t leave their spouse and move to Washington to be with PedoDick.
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>"Everyone who claims otherwise have only heard it second hand or third hand from bad sources."
Yes, 'bad sources' such as… Jared himself.(old milk)
Someone post the screenshot where he literally said “mandatory, send nudes”.
But yeah pj stans, he never demanded nudes except for all of those times that he actually did.
"There was never any kind of incentive"
I would consider getting attention and compliments from someone you admire an incentive, but what do I know.
He is fairly distant from his fellow veteran NewGrounds buddies, yet he does follow Holly.
Probably A)to see her sperg out or
B) Isn't friends with her but probably just forgot.
Like PewDiePie said recently when asked about Markiplier, social media interactions (or lack therof) mean nothing.
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I wonder if Hoelly is ever going to realize that her sperging out almost always results in her losing another 100-150+ followers.
Her tantrums are having the opposite effect and driving people away. Imagine that /s
Yep, especially with the "They're (lolcow) gonna ss this anyway…"
Just like when she was supposedly seeing how long it took to get hate on one of her tweets
She’s such a fucking idiot even if we believed her saying she didn’t cheat on Ross with Jared she helped Jared cheat on his wife and mentally abused Heidi by calling her abusive
all because Heidi demonstrated having boundaries and normal human emotions.
The fact that most people who sympathize with Heidi are women who went through similar emotional abuse and Jared/Holly sympathizers are leftover women from DCA fandom and men who hate women who are conventionally decent looking says a lot.
Chris Boutté is a fraudster, a wannabe Keem and a "victim
of cancel culture" (ie the people he obsessed over on his drama channel masquerading as a mental health channel clapped back at his fat ass).
I don't see why anyone would go to him for objective commentary.
The Rewired Soul, besides being a well-known fraud and liar, is obsessed with cancel culture. He is completely biased when it comes to the Jared/Holly/Heidi situation. The Rewired Soul believes he was unjustly cancelled when the internet found out how much of a snake oil salesman he is. He sides with Jared and Holly because they were also "cancelled" like he was. When he argues against cancel culture, it's just a narc attempt at clearing his own name.
It's funny that Jared/Holly have such little support that people have to resort to dragging out the absolute scumbag that is the Rewired Soul.
I included people like him
>Jared/Holly sympathizers are men who hate women who are conventionally decent looking
Come on everyone know TRS is a grifting narcissist whose word holds no weight. Of course he’d align himself with fellow narcs.
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Yes but is more neutral and even offered Heidi support, not sure why she didn't take it
Oh that's right, I forgot - one person analyzes biased evidence and leaned towards Holly and Jared. Clearly everyone else is fucking wrong and just supporting cancelling an innocent dude!! /s>>914808
>"People have to resort to dragging out the absolute scumbag"
Back when PedoDick released his "comeback" video, people were begging PewDiePie to speak out on Jared's behalf - clearly, none of them have the best decision making skills.>>914877
>"Even offered Heidi support"
The fact that he immediately turned around and started giving her shit indicates that Heidi was able to see right through his "I'm here for support!" bullshit and knew it was just a way to get close to get intel.
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This is just hypothetical.
But if Holly and Ross were still together, do you think Holly and Ashley would have gotten along?
Also what was Holly and Dan's relationship like? It seems there is few photos of them in the same place, even though they must have obviously been closely acquainted, I don't even think they did Grumpcade together. Please reply with pics of Holly/Dan together thanks!
Holly is essentially an ultra pick me. Jealous of prettier women even though Holly herself is dating a guy and the girl is already taken herself.
Actually, is she considered a pick me? Does she want male approval or just attention regardless?
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I deleted to add more.
But I said.
Misery loves company, they might despise each other but will stay together because without the same social status they had before their options are narrow to nonexistent.
And unrelated photo of Jared and Heidi together just to trigger
Holly in case she comes lurking.
>they'll stick by miserably to not own up what a fuck-up it was to engage in this.
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just to remind everyone how fuckin wild katie is, all the time
They don't like each other?? Lol, proof?
They don't seem to take many photos together, though Suzy and Holly seemed to be good friends.
They hanged out even without Ross and Arin around. Then again they have had more time to get closely aquainted since I think they met before GG was formed.
Also weren't Suzy and Heidi friends as well? I am pretty sure they were but no existing photos together I believe.
Anyway maybe Suzy and Ashleys friendship will change in time.
Though I can imagine Suzy seeing Ashley as just someone who just jumped in when Dan was huge, where Suzy prides herself in being with Arin before his Newgrounds days.
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Ew, God, she's gotta stop obsessing over Arin.
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My bad, it wasn't even "they fucking learn a lesson" it was "I can charge them for"
That has absolutely dick to do with what I said. It wasn't a Heidi defense, it was a "Holly hates anyone considered pretty because she's ugly". No need to reach to defend her, it's a pattern that Holly
does and has nothing to do with something that Heidi said.>>915112
Again, this has nothing to do with what I said. Scroll up to see the context.
I gotta say there is a bit of a difference between the following statements:
> Pretty girls always win.> I hate that pretty girls always win.> I hate pretty girls because they always win.
that you don't seem to get. Of course you are trying to milk almost decade old milk like a true enthusiast, but the farm focus is on the fresh milk.
same, ah KT I missed you.
is anyone saying anything back or is she just shitting into the void as usual? I am SO curious about this woman.
KT, I can guarantee you Ross gets @'ed on Twitter several
times a day by many
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if he already has you muted, because I wouldn't put it past you to try & exhaust any
attempt to reach Arin & anyone who knows him by now.
You know, it's weird seeing people still
trying to shit on Heidi when this woman
is still at large.
>"When someone points out the outrageously cruel shit that Heidi was tweeting"
Holly fucked her husband. She's allowed to be salty. Also, she never blatantly called someone an abuser just because they said "Hey don't fuck my husband", so there's that.>>915119
Go back to PJ2, pal. This ain't the place to claim Holly has changed when she clearly fucking hasn't.
Oh hey Holly - you should probably learn to be a little less blatant with your perusing of lolcow since you publicly stated you were aware of it.
Also, for the record, as a 30+ year old woman, you/Holly don't get a free pass for being shitty just because some time has passed. You fucked a married man while being married yourself - Fucking deal with the fallout or keep your legs together.
You killed me, anon>>915112
As a person who worked with shitty people with babies. I would have agreed with this. This was an angry tweet about work shit
Holly has shown time and time again that she is jealous/hates other women, especially those prettier than her even into her 30's
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Not sure why she had self-esteem issues though. It seems even Jackscepticeye was attracted to her , unless she for some reason thinks he is ugly as well.
She dumped Ross for Jared, if someone like Pewdiepie or Markiplier asked her out she'd probably reject them too.
Exactly. Holly displayed this same behavior in recent years, not just a long time ago. She's an attention whore that thinks she's always in competition with other girls. This is especially true if the girls are into "nerdy" things.>>915374
The more photos of her are posted, the more I see that she has looks not even a mother could love. What the fuck is with those choppy ass bangs and comma eyebrows.
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apologies if these have already been posted, but i was just perusing around projared’s tumblr via the wayback machine
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So he was still sexting fans while he was cheating on Heidi with Holly?
Not suprised, the guy can never be satisfied with just one woman.
/pic loosely related>>915429
Jared did have his social status to elevate him. With women [sometimes] social status can subscounciously elevate their perception of a man's physical attractiveness.
Like Jonah Hill the burger flipper likely would not have as much luck with women as Jonah Hill the Hollywood celebrity.
Men on the other hand tend to judge more face value regardless of any superficial qualities the woman may or may not have.
Of course every individual human has their own preference, this is just an observation.
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Unfortunately only a select few managed to cross over into the next decade. Which ones will survive? Who is next to fall?
Keep the popcorn in hand folks, since nobody knows what comes next!
yes men judge face value definitely thats why all guys wanna bang madam curie vs a stripper>>915450
guessing dan's not gonna make it and idk who that bottom left is but he definitely has skeletons in the closet. Arin enjoys when suzy gets bitchy and they are working out together so unless he stops and she gets a trainer while he digresses to hut they staying. pewds could kill a dude he has the money to hide it well,jack is a low possiblity of bad stuff,jon is like pewds but it's most likely nazi stuff
Top row left to right:
Botton left to right:
PeanutButterGamer, PewDiePie, Jackscepticeye, DannySexbang
>"Seems even Jackscepticeye was attracted to her"
Bro, liking an instagram picture does not mean he was attracted to her. He just hit the heart button.>>915404
In all fairness, a mother might love it - but any mother with a modicum of self respect would bitch slap their kid into the next millenium for acting like Hoelly has in the last 1-2 years.>>915408
>"It's quite prominent"
If you have to talk about how big your dick is, you just need to take the L and your micro penis and leave all of humankind alone.>>915419
Where do either of you live that Jared qualifies as masculine in any way, shape, or form?
tbh your post reads like a shitty video description. These are peoples lives, anon - If they're shitty and milky, go for it, but don't run around hoping for failure.
come on anon, that dick has got to be four inches of pure MAGIC if it's got holly still
acting like a fool kek>>915451
i'm howling here. if this aint the next thread pic
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Noo! There was a small mispelling, fixed it though.
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Also fuck here is a 3rd version with some other extras since the main contestants are running dry of milk.
From top left to right (with more popular spouse):
-MatPat,Pamela Horton/Ian from Smosh (both are pretty popular), Boogie2988, Markiplier.
File: 1578618594951.png (263.23 KB, 1000x879, best look.png)
Also, her profile links to a DeviantArt account where pic related is still featured. Not really the best look.
File: 1578621224861.gif (915.82 KB, 477x347, J77C.gif)
I honestly don't think Arin and Suzy will ever split. Not because they have a perfect healthy relationship or anything, but high school sweethearts mate for life usually. Well, until one cheats because they've never been with another partner, or murders the other because they've never been with another partner. That's what Forensic Files has taught me anyways. Doesn't necessarily mean they have the happiest most fulfilling marriage though. Arin is 33 and Suzy is 31(?). If they got together in 2002 that's 18 years approx. I think after a certain point unless one person commits a major offense, it's just not worth the effort of breaking up and moving out, even if you're not happy. (inb4 Katie calls the police on me saying 2002)
Also I can't tell if you did this on purpose or not, but this looks like a stage select screen with them all greyed out like that. Which begs the question: when all the remaining couples are defeated and after you boss rush them all over again (which I guess is when they all hate fuck each other after breaking up) who's the final boss? Is the final boss Youtube itself? Youtube is the big hand from SSB that's been controlling them all along?
Yeah, I agree. I think Arin and Suzy are together for good. She has such a terrible personality and a, frankly, fucking bizarre face that she lucked out finding a devoted guy who got rich doing nerd shit. No reason for her to leave him, and he's the kind of guy who would never leave her no matter what happened.
I say "terrible personality" but she's seemed to have chilled out lately. Could it be maturity? We shall see.
File: 1578630756891.jpg (70.24 KB, 593x663, internet terrorists.jpg)
Stop being internet terrorists before KT drops an internet drone strike on you.
Dan and Ash will last until they either get engaged and the vast difference between their expectations pull them apart or until they marry and have a kid and her fundie family demands they baptize it or . I predict a hilarious divorce where Ash claims he psychologically tortured her, and an eventual friendship with Kati.
My runners up would be Gab and Jack. He pulled some Shit in that relationship he had with Wiishu so I can see that being a recurrent issue.
If their relationship goes, so does Jack's with Grumps, since
Third runner-up is Holly and Jared, which isn't listed but is going to be fucking hilarious when it implodes when he cheats on her. Which everyone and their mother knows he will.
Y'know, I wasn't hating on KT too much before all of this since I didn't know much about the situation, but JFC - Is she for fucking real? Internet terrorists?
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How did he not immediately realize this anon ask is a fucking copypasta?
He actually answered it sincerely, jesus christ.
Because PedoWorm suffers from Napoleon Syndrome a.k.a. Little Man Syndrome, as well as a severe case of brain rot.
He honestly thinks women are tripping over themselves to hop on his weird curved dick. They'd be better off spending $50 and getting a decent vibrator - less chance of Hoelly going full Fatal Attraction when she realizes her One True Love™ is into someone else.
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This. Holly felt she was more deserving of Jared than Heidi (which is true, Heidi definitely deserved better than Jared Knabineloabeober). While Holly is a shit person who deserves a shit partner.
Which she had been trying to do for a looong time, possibly since they met in 2013.
I wonder if Holly's stopped and thought about how all of her supportive comments over the years about Heidi and Jared's relationship has come back and pretty much made her "SHE WAS ABUSIVE
!!" story impossible?
Like, how are you going to say something like "I'm sorry you're going through this" one day and then claim "She was abusing him and I wanted to help him leave!" the next?
File: 1578648306932.jpg (1.18 MB, 1828x1359, PDP_Holly.jpg)
IIRC Pewdiepie mentioned meeting Holly in his first video about ProJared. They must have became acquainted through Polaris.
They played a game of FriendZone together, but there is no archived footage of it anywhere as far as I'm aware.
Because an interaction between them would be cringy to watch.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
sageing for slight irrelevancy but TL;DR highkey suspect that jack cheated on wiishu with gab, and gab cheated on her husband with jack. Suzy and Arin talked about gab non stop to Jack (while she was still married, this is something he claimed himself) which is how he got to know her. Both gave out very abrupt, out of the blue separation announcements that were very similar in format, and Jack broke up with her while he was in LA and she was still in England, and their story constantly changes. Gab's husband seemed totally oblivious to any foreshadowing about divorce and both were planning to move back to the Netherlands to start a family until Gab got thirsty for Jack's dick and now she has tied him down to a dull life of repetitive lets plays and mooching on his fame.
Point being so I don't get banned: they are all sucky people. Dodger and Strippin / MatPat and Steph / Dunkey and his new wife are probably the few good couples left. I haven't heard or seen any drama with Mat (concerning Steph at least) and Dunkey is pretty chill. Arin and Suzy will probably grow old together out of habit and comfort at this point. Better to keep themselves contained to each other I guess.
TBH I actually theorize that Hoelly will stick to Jared until HE gets bored, not her. Since she dumped Ross for him, and became an uwu victim
to stand up for him on the internet (what a waste of martyrdom, honestly), he's never had any apparent issues either finding more females or sticking to one. She risks losing a lot more than he does if they split. Although she already lost her dignity so….
Idk if it was discussed earlier, but Ross also wore Dr. Who cosplay at their wedding, while was in some kind of Shepard-inspired look.
I do think that connecting over fiction is something she requires to begin a relationship. With Ross it faded over time as reality set in. Jared and Holly are creating their own fiction, but who knows how long they'll be able to maintain it without an audience to care and tell them they're special and meant to be.
File: 1578689592007.jpg (296.03 KB, 1152x2048, DckJ9GFUwAAOpqP.jpg)
>>916031>Jared and Holly are creating their own fiction, but who knows how long they'll be able to maintain it without an audience to care and tell them they're special and meant to be.
We know from how Heidi described their phone conversations, and how they seem to be now. It seems Holly is the one who invests more emotionally out of the two. Jared ideally should do the same, but he probably knows from what Ross told him to not have his hopes too high.
Pic loosely related
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This is it. Holly's entire life is a roleplay. If you followed her at all before she destroyed her career for Jared, you'll know the story of how she went to Scotland to study magic/medieval shit because of Harry Potter. Why I am sure you'd know this? Because she brought it up all. the. time. during her streams.
Her favorite thing to do at school was to walk around the city and pretend like she was in Harry Potter. The only time I can remember her bringing up any actual classwork was to say how terrible she was at it (she failed her Latin class).
I've always wondered why Holly never did a stream about medieval history, but now with what we know about her it seems like her "medievalist" persona is just another one of her roleplays.
This proves Holly has not learned anything nor grown emotionally at all. She is still just as awful as before.
"I used to live in Edinburgh!" "I used to live in Scotland!"
… girl, you were there for one academic year. Which you didn't make much out of. For fuck's sake lol
Watch this hollow twat claim she's "soooooo European in her morals" next. You know. Because she lived in Scotland for multiple months, once. And apparently took nothing away from the experience.
File: 1578702247072.png (2.39 MB, 1958x1220, holly.PNG)
The auto-generated captions are shit, but she says "Do you think I could suggest a medieval magical?" completely unironically in a modern pub.
These vlogs are a window into her true personality. A constant downer.
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It suddenly makes sense why she cosplays as an academic in her daily life. She really is that insecure and empty. Maybe she could have gotten an actual job in academia, but no, she pretended to be a witch instead
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"I was rejected from college because I wrote a fantasy story!" Once again, it's never Holly's fault.>>916212
She's claiming she finished a degree in "Medieval Studies".
Jesus, Holly, those places have guidelines for submissions, it's your own fucking fault for not following them.
She really is the spoiled brat who can't handle not getting her way.
Because who would know what their culture should be better than some boring white hipster broad who spent a grand total of, what, a year in the country? /s>>916204
Her idea of "academic" is reading some buzzfeed articles - not actually doing in depth research at all. >>916221
>"I was rejected because I wrote fantasy"
No, you were probably rejected because you wrote a BAD fantasy story. You can't tell me you were the first or only one who wrote fantasy for a Creative Writing program.
Dunno if this was ever discussed but…https://youtu.be/G73blsaUDuE?t=3200
Jared brings up an ex of his self-insert's. Perkins hints a future guest star could play her, and it really sounds like he might be referring to Heidi (Holly and Anna's then-husbands had previously guest-starred)… and watch as the pokerface-less Jared and Holly both lose their shit and start being incredibly uncomfortable.
I always wondered why Heidi never appeared on DCA, Grumpcade/Tableflip with Jared. I feel like it wouldn't have much of a problem for her to have appear as a guest on the Game Grumps especially when lived in California.
But I think with Heidi's personality she doesn't like being in the public eye as much as Jared or Holly. Considering she only recently started streaming again since the divorce (and before that still hadn't streamed for months). Whereas Jared started again almost right after he uploaded YBLT, and Holly not too long after the divorce.
Yes in interpersonal socializing she is probably extroverted but to the general public or on camera not as much. Which is even more evident by how she wasn't able to make her first YouTube video without Jared's support.https://www.instagram.com/p/BAh75a-x_kK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
This is fucking incredible. Holly Conrad, a supposed "witch", went and disturbed someone else's sacred space and STOLE THEIR PERSONAL POSSESSIONS.
Like what the fuck lmao. How entitled do you have to be, how disconnected from reality, to think that is in any way okay. I'm no believer in "magick" or whatever but Holly's definitely reaping her karmic rewards with her social life and career in ruins. I hope she has to get a fucking job at Walmart or something lol
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"It's the full moon's fault I'm feeling guilty for cheating uwu feel sorry for me"
How can someone be this unlikable
Ugh she really is giving TND a run for her money in the "no self awareness melodrama" category. Holly, why do you think you might
be feeling guilt and shame? Is it because reality is seeping in finally? Might you actually grasp that you've done shitty things and hurt people?
… what am I saying, her dainty delicate narcissist's ego can't grasp being at fault for anything.
>"I watch Independence Day and have a tiny ice cream."
The whole post is cringy as fuck and begging for attention, but that line in particular is fucking hilarious for some reason.
have your ~tiny ice cream uwu~ holly. you deserve it.
"they are all sucky people. Dodger and Strippin"
I can't find anything bad on them. What'd they do?
>>916318>While walking around in rural Ireland, Ross's Aunt Jenny and I stumbled upon this house. Inside was a ritual space with a circle and tree sculpture. It was amazing!! I want to keep the location secret, as this was or is someone's place of worship that we left with respect. Enjoy the adventure!!>Also the book was not near the ritual site and was buried under debris in a corner, so I left a gift as a trade
"We treated this site with respect! But still stole a book from it! But that's okay, we left a gift (probably a hand-written thank you note) so it's not REALLY stealing!"
Jesus, if this isn't the pinnacle of proof that Holly has no issues breaking others' boundaries and taking whatever the fuck she wants and thinking a "gift" will totally make up for any wrongdoing…
Well her DCA fun is over and people now know that she's a sloppy, thieving homewrecker who >>916342
still has to fish for attention instead of being fully given it now so I think you're right about karma.
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Apparently this happened. What a fun game of "Friend Zone" that must have been. Holly has been trying to get him for years.
What does she think she's recovering from? Getting called a cheater, which she is???
Compared to getting cheated on and having your entire life upended. Ffs.
She is the reason why national parks have rules about not taking cuttings from the flowers and plants - because she would dead ass destroy the ecosystem of the area for her shitty witch aesthetic>>916342
>"In retaliation I watching Independence Day and have a tiny ice cream"
Bitch, you are a whole ass adult. Watch what you want, eat what you want - nobody gives a singular fuck, but quit trying to make your lack of self control into a "uwu not like other girls" mindset.
>"Doubt, guilt, shame, all things I'm fighting. Still recovering"
Bruh, as long as you're fucking a dude who was married when you started banging (then again, so were you…), you'll have to live with the knowledge that you sank your career for some weird potentially pedophilic wormdick. You shouldn't GET to escape that shame.>>916434
She's recovering from all of Heidi the Whore's abusive
, obviously! I mean, how fucking dare Heidi ask Holly not to fuck her husband??? /s>>916452
It's because she's a fucking Narc, anon. Anything that doesn't go her way 100% of the time is just someone attempting to attack her and ruin her life (nevermind the fact that it's her own actions that led her to this point)
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Oh god I hope Idle Champions rubs it in more. So many people in the comments winning about Diath,
Maybe guilt wouldn't consume her so much if she ever actually owned up to her wrongdoings.
But she's incapable of that. It's always "sorry for offending you" or "sorry you misunderstood me", she never thinks she does something wrong, everyone else just doesn't get it. Or they're abusive
people who don't value her needs.>>916528
Aaaah, the pissbabies are at it again.
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Jared and Heidi would have been great parents! I remember when Heidi tweeted this I thought she was pregnant since she said "baby's first" with her hand on her stomach.
This is how she responded when someone thought the samehttps://twitter.com/AtelierHeidi/status/910633517817618433?s=19
Holly would have had a much more difficult time trying to wreck their home if that were the case, damn.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
WTF, this shit again??
Babies don't magically fix a couple's problems, anon.
That is so far-fetched it's hilarious. There was room for only one baby in that relationship, first and foremost… and if you don't live under a fucking rock, you know that babies do not "fix" relationships but quite the opposite: even stable, loving, committed couples have a seriously hard time once they have a baby in the equation.
Also a fun fact: a lot of dudes step out on their partner once they're pregnant or just had a kid. And they also leave. So I don't fucking know where you get this idea that a baby would "keep them together" - unless you mean Heidi would be brow-beaten into staying "for the good of our kid" and due to being even more financially dependent on Jared. You can guarantee that Holly would have swooped the fuck in if they had a kid, all "oh don't you get enough attention?? is she not meeting your neeeeeeeeeds, that evil meanie? if you need anything I'm here for you uwu!!!"
>>916548>Jared and Heidi would have been great parents>Jared
Are you fucking crazy? What, so he can hit on their kid's teenage friends when they get older? To cheat on Heidi post partum when she's not up for playing sexually open cool girl?
You don't even know Heidi well enough to make that judgement either, you must be some weirdo pro lifer or a scrot with a fetish.
>"all things I'm fighting right now…"
How about you stop
fighting it & actually reflect
on the things that you did. You'll never 'recover' if you keep fighting it.
>"Jared and Heidi would have been great parents!"
Oh hell no, they would not - maybe away from Jared, Heidi could be a great mom, but her and PedoDick together would have been awful.
Adding a kid to an already toxic
and emotionally abusive
marriage is a recipe for disaster.>>916634
Which, I mean, even if he HAD married her for the green card, he had an established career in this country long before divorce became an option, so it didn't really matter.
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so does anyone else remember the Jared/Hoelly stans screaming that Chai/Charlie couldn't be trusted because they have their pronouns in their twitter bio?
Also "She/they"? Fam, you're a whole ass adult cis female unless you're now trying to pull the "I SUPPORT TRANS/NB PEOPLE BECAUSE I AM ONE OF YOUUUUUUUUU" card, hoelly
File: 1578787036012.jpg (654.37 KB, 1386x852, OnisionHolly.jpg)
Loosely related to >>>/pt/746783
Onision lives close to Holly and Jared, I wonder if all 3 of them secretly meet up for drinks every weekend.
I might be going overboard but it wouldn't surprise me. Bet Holly is cheating on Jared with Onision as well, seems like her taste.
Wait….so you've gone from "Maybe they meet up for drinks" to "I bet Hoelly Cumrag is fucking Onion Boy too"?
That's tinfoil to the most autistic degree, Anon
File: 1578793436968.png (26.02 KB, 589x218, Screenshot_32.png)
That awkward moment that someone who was left a solid million in a will has to beg people to help fund a podcast.
and the kicker is that she's talking about getting EVEN MORE chickens once the weather improves (this time hens because apparently she only has one female right now and then males are being too rough with her)
So she can afford 10+ chickens (which, I could be wrong, but she's toeing the line of too many chickens legally for her area), 50+ pigeons, a cat, and god knows what else - but can't afford a shitty 1-2 time a week podcast??
What's the matter Holly? Spent your
grandfather's hard-earned fortune on silencing anyone who dared
question your current boy-toy's actions?
>"Because everyone is doing that"
Because the fucking continent is on fire, you ignorant sow (holly, not you anon). This isn't some new, trendy, hipster thing that EVERYONE is doing - This is a fucking crisis that needs all of the help they can get.
I'll believe her big talk about "I'd like to do it for charity" when she actually follows through for once. After both ripping off a cancer patient and the whole t-shirt donation debacle, I don't have high hopes.
I'm going ot a bit, look it's bad but we (Australia) are a rich country relatively speaking, it's not the entire continent and any fire map purporting to show you that is faked for maximum twitter drama. It's horrible for sure, but I'm sitting here not on fire for example. There's a fuck ton of hyperbole on sm about it and a lot of image recycling form past fires too, for shock value. The evacuations look very dramatic because its traditionally holiday time here, but many have second (main) houses to go to, only those that don't are the ones suffering. Holly may well know some of these things since she was married to an Australian. If the fire services get to buy planes and shit because pop stars gave them money as a virtue signal, good news.
Animals and wildlife are the big casualties here and they don't exactly get govt assistance or red cross, the army is helping a bit and the rest is nonprofits - I'm sure there's a way she could specifically help birds in wildlife rescues if she wanted to go digging for info on it.
File: 1578843665844.png (629.15 KB, 589x584, coupleshang.png)
New couples hang-out pic (with Dan's friend Joe fifth-wheeling it kek)!
Wow, Ash isn't dressed like a twelve year old pageant reject, a miracle in of itself. Glad someone dragged Dan out, sounds like he spent most of Friday crying over the Rush guy - which is probably why he invited Joe up from Jersey.
that's what really got me too. we all see holly for the self-absorbed vain bitch she is, but some place you've been to and seen with your two eyes and existed in and know to be real should not be this hard to feel for
. this isn't an abstract concept that her white ass would be too entitled to grasp, it's some place she's had some kind of connection to, no matter how vague.
imagine the levels f cuntiness needed to completely wash your hands of a global tragedy like "well yknow everyone else will take care of it. meanwhile how about you pay for my CuRsEd aCaDeMiC fashion choices instead"
oh my god of course she's NB as well.
So to keep a tally
Asexual Panromantic NonBinary Neurodivergent
can i count Poly in the mix as well i suppose?
simply put to keep it on topic, Kiwi Farms would never side with anyone but ProJared in this situation
you'd know this from 20 minutes of browsing
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Made this don't have much to add to the discussion but I think the picture sufffices
Suzy looks good.
I'm happy for her.
File: 1578942108650.png (2.01 MB, 1025x1402, cowjuice14.png)
The body language in this one is amazing. Look at Ash trying to get as far away as she can from Suzy so she can lean into Dan and do the 'look! We're a couple!' thing.
Meanwhile Arin and Suzy at the other end, looking like a normal ass couple.(nitpick)
Hi again, Hoelly. We get it - You = good, Heidi = evil whore.
You can move on now.
I mean..being real, hating on her or not she's done more than you most likely have.
She's an internet personality for a reason, she wasn't known/only heard of because of this situation. Google is your friend, anon.
>"She's done more than you most likely have"
You're right. I've never ruined two separate marriages, my public image, a YT show, and any remnants of a career in one fell swoop from defending my potentially-a-pedophile fuckboy.
You've got me there, Anon.
>"She's an internet personality for a reason"
Because she fucking majored in medieval studies or some shit like a moron who KNEW she'd live off of her Granddaddy's money until she suckered some poor bastard into marrying her (and then leeching off of them until one of them died).
>"She wasn't known/only heard of because of this situation"
True, but now that's ALL she'll ever be - the adulterous whore who fucked her friend's husband and defended him wildly abusing his fame to jack it to nudes of fans, some of whom were minors.
Hoelly only got any sort of notoriety by being a spoiled rich kid. Of course she could fuck around and gain a following on the internet by talking about birds and playing dress up. She had the money to blow on a useless degree and grandpa left her enough money to buy a house in one of the most expensive areas to live. She can whine about “muh tragic backstory” and “muh slutshaming” all she wants, but she needs to face it and realize she’s gotten an easy ride compared to most and everything bad that’s happened to her she brought upon herself. Literally all she had to do was wait to fuck Jared until he and Heidi divorced, but I’m sure he had no intentions of doing so until he got caught.
Hey Holly! Is googling your name what you do all day now that you don't have a job? You haven't had a job for months now, right? Does streaming yourself playing children's video games once a week count as the amazing accomplishment that us normies couldn't possibly understand? You're really doing a lot with your life! Please remind us again how you went to Scotland for a semester and how you wrote a fantasy book when you were 12. Seriously, the million times you've told those stories just aren't enough.
And the general public really loves you! I'm sure you've gained a ton of new followers on social media because people are so impressed by your accomplishments. Your career is going great! Keep up the amazing work!
(Not every place on the internet needs to be for you, Holly.)(hi cow)
fairly certain that is definitely going on here. all of the nonsense seems to come from one specific person who never sages their posts.
if you're going to criticize, at least do it over something valid
, like how weird it is that ash always suffers through whatever bullshit dan likes and supports it on IG, whereas dan has never done the same for her in return. but ash is the real problem here because she uhhhhh checks notes
leaned against her boyfriend in a photo
Excellent response anon. Also, who's to say none of the people in this thread aren't
more popular than Holly?
>"No one deserves hate"
Holly, probably: "No one deserves hate…unless your name starts with an H, ends in 'eidi', and you were or are currently married to the guy I want to fuck. Then get bent, you abusive
piece of trash!"
Yeah I would say the more "milky" thing is that Dan doesn't do anything with her until his friend is visiting or it's with other people. Or until the drama started.
But even that's a friggen stretch. I'm waiting for more confirmation on the allegations against Dan/Brent
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I decided to take time out of my day to watch her stream. I love how none of her mental advice seems to involve apologizing or recognizing when you have done something wrong, everyone else is the problem not you!
She does seem to shift around fandoms as if sticking around ends up revealing her horrible traits.
Used to be a thing on the cosplay scenes but then controversies happen and whoops she's more doing video game streams now…
And then shifted out of that to focus on TTRPG/DCA stuff…
It's almost like she never sticks around long enough in the spotlight for the cracks in her facade become prominent enough.>>917749
What do her mental advices consist of? Just blaming something external?
How would she even know it was the same person??? Was there only one person working in all of Starbucks? Did she just call out some random person on a whim?
Wall of text time, but checking hate comments obsessively on a daily basis is massively unhealthy and is indicative of an outrageous level of self-loathing and self-destructiveness. Like go the fuck outside and do something productive with your time, jfc. Like, idk, maybe talk to a legitimate therapist who will expect you to reflect on your actions and decisions and make healthy choices in life, instead of shuttering yourself up at home wallowing in self-pity.
You know deep down she wouldn't be keeping tabs on other people's opinions if she truly believed her previous behavior was okay and truly justified, otherwise she wouldn't give a shit and continue on with her life. Deep down, she knows at least some of it is true, and instead of doing the easiest thing, which is making a genuine attempt to be a better person, she catastrophizes it and acts like she needs to KILL HERSELF instead of just knocking that shit off.
That's the same reason she stays with Jared. Her boyfriend is a massive creep and all-around narcissistic piece of shit, but she has to stay with him because she hates herself so much that she can't leave.
Get some fucking help, Holly. I have depression, I don't always like myself, I've done things I'm not proud of, but guess what, you get your ass out of bed and you own your mistakes and you try to be a better person today than you were yesterday. Or idk just continue to whine and be miserable and never take responsibility, I guess if the universe flips inside out and all logic reverses itself, that might actually work out for you one day.
She thinks that she did not cheat on Ross.
Well, they ceased to be a romantic couple and at the very least were legally seperated when she starting having sex with Jared.
She did however have sex with a married man, used emotional manipulation to get it, and was perfectly fine with Jared gaslighting and abusing Heidi if it meant she could get it.
Being partially responsible for the emotional torment Heidi experienced but never apologizing to her at all.
She acts like because she waited until they separated that she's absolved of responsibility. But she did cheat. It was textbook emotional cheating, and it led to something physical, like emotional cheating tends to do. That's why she loves to satirize the concept of "boundaries," because she knows she crossed the boundaries of their relationship, but by mocking the concept, she gets to pretend like she wasn't the bad guy and what she did wasn't wrong.
The situation with Heidi and Jared is even more fucked up if you believe her story that Jared was a victim
of abuse and she was threatening to hurt herself so that he would leave Heidi and be with her. As if that's the proper way to help a friend who is a victim
of abuse. Honestly, she doesn't realize that kind of behavior is so sociopathic that it would reflect BETTER on her if she admitted that she knew Heidi wasn't an abuser and she just wanted an excuse to fuck Jared. But no, her story is that she tried to bully an abuse victim
into leaving their abuser. wat>>917824
tbqh she did some fucked up shit, but I would have been willing to forgive her if she reflected on what happened and then came out later and dumped Jared and admitted that she fucked up. But instead she just doubled down.
I used to be a fan of hers as well and I liked her a lot, but now I don't even recognize her.
It takes a brave person to look deep inside themselves and admit their mistakes, and I was misguided in expecting her to come back with a different frame of mind after her time in the psych ward. Instead, she's just so… angry and bitter, when she should be happy. She got what she wanted, and she has still has what seems like hundreds of fans who adore her and hang on her every word. Why should she care if she has "haters"? And yet, she somehow seems more miserable than ever.
which is the polar opposite of what an ACTUAL mental health provider would tell you.
A+ on once again continuing the victim
Let her. Hi Holly! If no one's told you yet, it's incredibly unhealthy to check something that you KNOW brings you misery and/or upset feelings. I can't fucking stand you and think you're a skeezy piece of shit, but even I would tell you to get some real fucking help.>>917822
>"if she truly believed her previous behavior was okay and truly justified"
Yes, she would. She's a narc who thrives off of the ass-pats that her fanbase gives her on a regular basis. She can't stand that here on lolcow, we're not just going to blindly congratulate her on ruining her career and two marriages just to chase after some mediocre dick.
File: 1578976148041.jpg (26.4 KB, 400x400, 7lCeEp5k_400x400.jpg)
There's one mental health professional who could help her.
They follow each other on Twitter
I think that was the other anon's point, anon.
He and Holly are about as good for mental health as emotional abuse and gaslighting.>>917897
>Instead, she's just so… angry and bitter, when she should be happy.
But she is
happy anon! Just look at all the twee Instagram posts & tweets she writes about "having a tiny ice cream" when she feels that totally
unprompted guilt, shame, & doubt coming on! /s
Since she was streaming with Jared relatively recently, I'd hazard a guess that Hoelly is one of those fucking nutjobs that refers to getting a new, different therapist as "breaking up" with the old one.
That, or she means her breakup with Ross OR Jared's breakup with Heidi.
That’s the most frustrating thing to me about this uwu tiny ice cream uwu brain weasel uwuwu nonsense: she acts like these feelings of guilt are a symptom of mental illness and something to be ignored or defeated. I bet she tells her therapists that she hasn’t done anything wrong and that those feelings are her beating herself up over nothing because she’s just that
mentally ill and depressed. No therapist (or ice cream, or movie) is going to be able to make feelings of guilt go away when the patient refuses to acknowledge the source of them. This probably goes at least as far back as her time in the cosplay community. Didn’t she once say she quit cosplay because the community or HoC traumatised her? That isn’t trauma, Holly. It’s your conscience.
File: 1579005511386.jpeg (57.16 KB, 540x304, 6354FC81-352F-4B08-8017-4C3E36…)
Exactly. Therapy doesn’t work unless you’re willing to work on yourself and admit your faults. Any therapist who isn’t a yes man likely gets dismissed.
Featuring actual picture of hoelly in therapy.
I used to be a Holly fan too and I know what you mean about hardly recognizing her. Her twitter posts have become nauseatingly try hard ("look how kind I am uwu I'm so innocent"). It's an obvious attempt at covering up what a terrible bitch she's been. Watching her on stream last night it was clear how deeply unhappy she is. There's no way she can hide her misery when she's live and I think she knows it. That's why it took her months to come back to streaming.
I'm wondering what she's going to do for money now. There's no way her current views on Twitch can support her lifestyle. She's also going to have a tough time making new fans with her reputation. Sure she has money in the bank, but is it enough to live off of for the rest of her life? I would be depressed too if I didn't have a meaningful job. She probably sits at home by herself while everyone else is working. Her life is pretty pathetic, but it's all of her own doing.
File: 1579022166402.jpg (88.13 KB, 518x786, sovrin.jpg)
Holly, since I know you read here and no one else has called you out, why does one of the only images you've drawn for your "brand" look EXACTLY like Sovrin's Pan's Labyrinth leggings? I know you've seen the leggings before. You probably own them. Every other piece of clothing in your closet is from Sovrin and they've posted pictures of you wearing their pieces on their IG, so don't try with the "uwwwu I've never seen these before" or "uwwwu we were inspired by the same 16th century manuscript".
Didn't she get the parody cancelled shirt taken down because of copying? This hypocritical artwork stealing bitch…
Looks like Hoelly steals designs as well as husbands.
It's always justified when SHE does it.
Everyone is wrong to cash in or joke about the drama, except her and Jared, they're in the right when they do it.
File: 1579035700276.jpg (555.94 KB, 1064x1505, 20200114_154820.jpg)
Holly wearing Sovrin leggings and being featured on their Instagram. It looks like it's a small business run by one woman. Holly probably thought they were such a tiny buisness no one would notice if she copied them. Kind of messed up to steal from a one woman small company she's friendly with. But then again, it's Holly
>"why does one of the only images you've drawn for your "brand" look EXACTLY like Sovrin's Pan's Labyrinth leggings?"
She probably stole them just like everything else she has in her life.>>918129
I agree, Anon. There's no way that someone as dickmatized as Hoelly waits for the divorce to be legal before she starts trying to tap that PedoDick.>>918182
I don't think stealing the entire design and adding a couple little details falls under "parody">>918204
When this first went down, Hoelly's big argument against Heidi was that she went public to gain followers and notoriety. Less than 3 months later, Holly started pumping out the first of the shitty drama-related t-shirts on her store.>>918228
There's no way that you find some sort of empowerment in calling yourself 'trash'. In fact, I can't imagine her therapist would endorse her being so negative on herself and trying to make it her brand.
File: 1579062470674.jpg (889.44 KB, 1080x1913, Screenshot_20200114-222748_Ins…)
Not surprised Arin has a sailor moon kink.
Jared dressing up in a full on sailor moon costume and showing his dick = kink
A dude merely liking sailor moon and perhaps putting a sticker on his forhead = not a kink
File: 1579142859883.jpg (168.71 KB, 900x1200, Cjnz4RFUgAAwZyX.jpg)
This. When he was still an animator he even made a Sailor Moon parody in appreciation of it. Look for milk elsewhere, Chief. This ain't it.
File: 1579147425927.jpg (653.46 KB, 1080x1067, 20200115_220342.jpg)
Fuck I was just getting bored of only talking about the crazy bird lady and her nymphomaniac boyfriend.
Anyway here is a nice picture to trigger
the female Rewired Soul when she visits.
Why did you have to ruin this?
I mean, yes - it takes two to ruin the marriage and it was
Jared's responsibility to remain faithful to Heidi
Holly is the one who actively spent MONTHS convincing Jared that Heidi was abusive
and that she was some evil whore who was ruining his life, etc.
Jared would've probably kept things to just pump n dumping girls at cons and doing the sinjared thing, at least for a little while.
It was the thrill of doing the Strix n Diath thing (let's face it, they were basically carrying out an affair in front of an audience that loved it and fanarted it), plus Holly's own manipulations, that led to the downfall that quickly.
if a friend spends months trying to convince you your house is haunted you still won't burn it down if you weren't convinced yourself. We know Jared lashed back at Holly the first time she told him she thinks Heidi is abusive
but started therapy after that for half a year. Maybe between the therapist and the way Heidi was acting he actually saw something extra to tell him the relationship is not working.
>"you still won't burn it down if you weren't convinced yourself."
Emotional manipulation with the threats of offing yourself if you don't leave your wife are a lot different than your friends trying to convince you that ghosts are haunting your house.
We already know that Hoelly has a history of threatening suicide when she doesn't get what she wants - It's a lot easier to listen to a lie when it's backed with the threat of loss of life.
>"he actually saw something extra to tell him the relationship is not working."
Anyone with two eyes could see that the relationship wasn't working, that's not the point here. The point is that instead of waiting until the ink on the divorce was final, he crawled between Hoelly Cumrag's thighs while she whispered lies in his ear of his wife being abusive
If Holly legit thought Heidi was abusive
, you give resources; You don't let the man seek comfort in your vagina which you know is going to provoke the alleged abuser since she'd already told him NOT to fuck you.
using that same analogy it would
go a long long way towards convincing me in the first place. what a good friend does is "maybe you're imagining it, it's highly unlikely. what you really need is some downtime"
what a good friend does not do is "i'm seeing five ghosts in here every time i walk in, what the fuck is wrong with you? why is this house not burned down yet
like there's a limit after which even the sanest person would begin to doubt themselves, especially if they're told "you're seeing this wrongly" a hundred times a day and they want to believe it in the first place
you are both citing a tweet from 3 months after Jared told Heidi AND her therapist and obviously another couple's therapist that he wants out of the marriage and he won't work on it, as an example of how she was pestering him constantly for the half year before this happened. It might have happened but there is no proof.
Also, I am sick of people saying she threatened suicide when his wife clearly showed she did it too and before he actually told her he wants a divorce. Both these women have mental health problems and that's a whole shitsandwich there.
>"Jared told Heidi AND her therapist and obviously another couple's therapist that he wants out of the marriage and he won't work on i"
Then he should have filed for divorce MONTHS before he did - not drag Heidi through this whole charade of false hope for saving their shitshow of a marriage. He could have walked his happy ass into a divorce lawyer's office MONTHS before he did - but no, he waited, blocked her on twitter, and then released some bullshit faux statement as if it was a happy agreement and not the result of his mistress pushing him into it for literally months.
>"I am sick of people saying she threatened suicide when his wife clearly showed she did it too"
There's a big difference between Heidi's therapist saying "Hey, your wife is feeling suicidal" and the shit Holly pulled. One is the result of legitimate mental illness, the other is the result of someone who is terrified to face the repercussions of failing to keep her fucking legs closed to a married man.
>"before he actually told her he wants a divorce."
You mean….a wife dared to tell her husband that she was in a rough place mentally? HOW FUCKING DARE SHE!!! /s
>"that's a whole shitsandwich there."
Yeah, difference is that Heidi doesn't wield her shit as a weapon to get the general public off of her back (i.e. the infamous "I'm sorry, I'm mentally ill" tweet after the Etika incident)
i was in fact referring to heidi revealing holly had been texting
jared aggressively demanding "why isn't this marriage over yet". but ok
>holly threatened suicide but heidi did too
about heidi "threatening
suicide, i'll use your own words – "it might have happened but there is no proof"
what there is
proof of is holly plastering her desire to sudoku "because a friend is letting himself be abused uwu" all over twitter>>919017>a wife dared to tell her husband that she was in a rough place mentally
anon don't you know that's how abuse starts? first the wife is loving, then she expects intimacy, then she feels isolated and neglected, and next thing you know the bitch whore is demanding alimony. it doesn't add up, the bitches are just insane i tells ya
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Why does this feel like another of Hoellys desperate attempts to pretend like she’s above the drama and haters again?
I can picture the inevitable conversations
"Diath, my love, where do…"
"You know that shit was just for DCA, right?"
cue Hoelly's gobsmacked face
Jared's escape is ProJared. As Jared Knabenbauer he may have basically lost everything, but as ProJared he can put on a blue shirt, go in front of a camera and be a different person for 10 minutes.
Holly doesn't have an escape, unless its drugs or something we know she smokes weed but it's legal there and in any case I don't judge. She doesn't even call herself "Commander Holly" anymore.
>"Good try on rewriting that history"
Heidi's fuckup of a therapist (who apologized and admitted to Heidi that she had crossed boundaries that weren't hers to cross) saying that Heidi would threaten suicide is not an actual indication of Heidi having done so.
Just like Hoelly screaming that Heidi was an abuser isn't an indicator that she actually was one.
>"Heidi herself confirmed she was hospitalized"
Again, Heidi had legitimate feelings of wanting to commit suicide so she checked herself into a mental health facility - as you are supposed to do in that situation. Hoelly checked herself into a mental health hospital to avoid the blowback when the cheating scandal broke - and it wasn't a real legit hospital, considering when a person checks themself in for suicidal ideation, they're rarely allowed phone calls to friends who tell them of all of the awful things being said about them outside.
This is stuff no one would have known had Jared not put it out there. Expressing suicide ideation to a therapist because your husband is abusing and gaslighting you and then actually taking them up on their recommendation of hospitalization is what you should do.
Little miss hoelly however only hospitalized herself after she and wormdick had been exposed and she couldn’t handle the rightful flack she was getting and then immediately posted about it on twitter for sympathy as soon as she got out. Not to mention the times she talked about wanting to be “gone” on her public figure twitter in regards to Jared not ending his relationship with Heidi fast enough while he was fucking her on the side. She claims to have only been helping a friend in an abusive
relationship, but you don’t help a friend you suspect is being abused by offering them vaginal support lol.
You can go back to pj2 now.
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“At least he’s a literate egomaniac warmonger”
Jesus fucking Christ, Hoelly - shut the fuck up
Is that her fucking standards for a decent president? "At least he's not Trump lol"?
Fucking hell Holly. Anything to justify, am I right?
Bet if she DID find some Trump quote that she could apply to herself she'd use it.
The kicker is that some of her biggest supporters (borkscorpion) literally said "Everyone is or was their own kind of shitty; Doesn't mean they never had good points"
These people literally have no standard for goodness.
Didn't Heidi admit she spent most of DragonCon 2019 crying in her hotel when Jared posted his response to the underage accusers and not Heidi.
Heidi and Holly both seem to suffer from victim
The difference is Heidi is a victim
Are you seriously so daft a twat that you think the reason she was in all sorts of emotions is because the shitweasel didn't focus on her but instead on Chai/Charlie?
Yeah, how dare someone who was actively being gaslit into believing that her husband wasn't cheating on her with a mutual friend and that she was the sole cause of their marriage failing express emotion? What a soulless cunt Heidi was!! /s>>919444
The reason Heidi lost her shit at DragonCon was because once again, Jared posted a video defaming her and everything she had said while she had no way to dispute it adequately. He did it when he KNEW she'd be at a con around people that were going to ask her all sorts of questions about it.
Jare'ds a shitheel, full stop.
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Not milk in the slightest, just made me chuckle.
Anon, no one is rewriting shit - Just because you want to keep up with this insistence that Heidi is a villainous whore while Hoelly is an innocent caught up in the crossfire doesn't mean anyone is making this shit up.
>"that Heidi had given the therapist explicit permission to contact Jared to resolve issues that were connected with her wellbeing"
Right - because if she was having suicidal thoughts, her husband - the person who was living with her and responsible for her general well-being outside of Heidi herself - should know. I don't know what you think you're proving here.
>"Heidi said "I was instutionalized on your recommendation" not because Heidi wanted"
Heidi probably told her therapist she was feeling suicidal and said therapist probably said "Hey, go to the ER". Again, not concrete evidence of Heidi wielding threats of suicide as a weapon a la Hoelly Cumrag.
>"Yeah, you here think the therapist was shitty because didn't back Heidi up?"
No, I think the therapist was shitty because she betrayed Heidi's trust as proven in the texts that Heidi provided. The therapist themselves said they crossed a line, so….yeah, not a great mental health provider.
>"It's obvious for you mental health is just another bumper sticker"
You mean like Hoelly "I'm asexual FUCKING KIDDING I WANT TO BANG MY MARRIED FRIEND AND ONLY MY MARRIED FRIEND, YOU CANT YELL AT ME IM MENTALLY ILL" Conrad?
Does it really matter? It's Heidi's right to say "Yes, you can tell my husband about our therapy" - In fact, most medical/mental health facilities have that on their intake paperwork about who they can talk with and what info they can share.
There's nothing wrong with Heidi wanting Jared to be kept in the loop about her mental health - That is NOT indicative that she was using it as a means to manipulate Jared to do what she wanted.
what? i really want you to point out where this happens because like that other anon i'm absolutely ready to start accusing people of rewriting history here
seriously, point me to the text messages because even going through the past threads i don't see any of whatever the hell you're claiming
what's with the sudden influx of people saying heidi completely threatened suicide directly in front of jared? is this holly preparing to do some sudoku bait very soon and thus trying to get some kind of deflection tactic ready?
i can't believe it's this difficult for you guy/s to grasp the difference between actually being/feeling suicidal and blaring on twitter to your 200k-something followers about how suicidal you feel because of what's happening between two wholeass other people
And if the therapist had said the sky was neon pink, would you take it as 100% truthful fact?
>"Didn't Heidi herself say…she was manipulating him into doing what she wanted?"
First of all, I'd love to see where she said that. Second of all, her marriage is over and she's back on her own; Tell me how any of this is what Heidi wanted.
>" she describes how she is not going to talk with him when she goes back so he would get anxious about her behavior"
There's a difference between "I'm going to do this to mentally torture him" and "I want him to feel how he has made me feel". I'm not saying it's okay, but it's more understandable to what him to experience what he had made HER experience.>>919731
>"What's with the sudden influx…"
It's just Hoelly and her stans trying to make her ridiculous threats of suicide seem okay - They figure if they can make Heidi's seem fake then Hoelly's will be okay, when in reality, Heidi legit was struggling and Holly used her threats as a way to get people off her back.
File: 1579374069594.png (401.72 KB, 482x577, dogdan.png)
There's this great story on Rantgrumps about how Dan once came out the back door of a theater where they were performing Game Grumps Live, paused with a deer-in-the-headlights look on his face, and ran for his life toward the tour bus, apologizing all the way. His fan interactions stories have been very mixed bag and weird.
In semi-milky news, Dan and Ash have adopted a dog named Camilla from a shelter. She was about to be put down.
Since Dan's constantly out of LA (he was just in Jersey for three weeks straight weeks without Ash while she hung out at their place alone and NSP is supposed to go on a tour this summer) and she's always into spending her weekends out of the house and works a day job, I wonder how much of this is an impulse adoption and how much time Camilla's going to end up spending at doggy daycare or with a paid sitter or walker.
The whole reason Dan left Princess Tinkles in Jersey with his parents and didn't take her to LA with him was because he was "too busy to have a dog." He's busier now than he was then. Kind of screams "well, Ash, you're always home, have fun!"
Bonus: "She's been just the best thing to happen to our lives in a little while." Pause. "Except for each other!"
1. They got paid for it & upsetting a current or
former customer probably isn't
a good idea, especially when they have a pretty sizable following that hangs onto their every
2. Since coming forward worked out so well
for Jared's former fans & his own ex-wife, I'm gonna assume anyone that they commission(ed) is either still
a starry-eyed fan or doesn't want to deal with some very
public backlash, so lying-low would seem like the better option.
They fucking failed. Only 1-2 of her stans has bothered to pop in and try to come to her defense (You can tell most of the replies are from the same person since they spew the same exact defense every time) and they are quickly proven wrong every time.
She can bitch about lolcow all she wants - but there's still the PULL thread (though the site has been down for a couple days), there's still a couple different blogs on tumblr who call her shit out.
Face it Hoelly, you did something very stupid, very publicly. The fallout is on YOU.
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>there's still a couple different blogs on tumblr who call her shit out.
Speaking of tumblr. I just saw this recently.
Details please? I'm not clicking one of this videos.
But if he's actually blaming Chris Perkins of all people, that really goes to show how desperate he is to deflect blame and convince himself it's everybody else's fault. Holly and Jared both worshipped Perkins all the way up until they got outed for fucking in character.
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This hurt to read…
With Ross, she had the upper hand
either because she knew he'd never leave her unless she pushed him away or because she reacted to his kindness by rejecting it. With Jared - who's more manipulative and whom she knows will cheat on her because he cheated with her - it's keep him happy or else. Maybe he's cold and undemonstrative to her off-cam, so she goes in the opposing direction.
Ross worshipped and loved Holly so of course she negged him into oblivion. Her relationship with Jared is shaky and he isn't anywhere as into her as Ross was so she can't constantly put him down. Instead she has to drown him in praise and love bomb him, while occasionally threatening self harm if he strays too far.
Ross seems happier than ever right now. Heidi has also been streaming lately and she is so friendly and seems in a good place too. Neither has to go to sleep at night wondering if they are beating cheated on. Holly on the other hand…
She took her career behind the barn & shot it for him, so I'm thinking the tables have turned from her last relationship. He's all she has now. >>920281
I remember Heidi saying somewhere that she has a better relationship with her parents now that she left Jared.
>Neither has to go to sleep at night wondering if they are being cheated on. Holly on the other hand…
THIS is the best takeaway for Ross & Heidi. Jared & Holly are each other's problem now.
File: 1579399175442.jpg (443 KB, 1080x1606, Screenshot_20200118-175131_Tum…)
Imagine how hysterical Holly must get, barraged by comments from the general public about how her boyfriend will eventually cheat on her. Imagine knowing that it's just a matter of time before he trades her in for another girl who causes him less grief.
She's just a consolation prize, and it's obvious.
Exactly. Ross and Heidi get to move on and eventually recover from all of this. Jared and Hoelly will get to drag this stigma around for literally forever. The wife of any man Hoelly works with will want fuck all to do with her on the off chance she starts demanding to fuck their husbands too.>>920285
She's the worst case of "Buyer's Remorse" that Jared will ever experience - He thought he was upgrading, but my guy, that bucket of crazy is the worst kind of DOWNGRADE.
Jared reviewed DragonStrike, and after discussing the VHS tape (you're better off watching Spoony's old riff TBH) he said the tape alone was worth owning for a good laugh, and once you were done you could send it to someone who could really appreciate it, and revealed his parcel was addressed to Chris Perkins.
Considering Perkins explicitly referred to Jared by name in his farewell to DCA tweet (calling the whole gang "family"), and they still follow each other on Twitter, it's pretty obvious the decision came from higher-up and were it up to Perkins, DCA would've chugged along as if nothing happened.
I'm also sure Holly has a couple of fans who are more
than willing to 'share' him with her…
…And Holly will just have to sit there and accept it out of fear of becoming the "Jealous Heidi-type" as one of her WKs put it.
Lmao she has really boxed herself into putting up with his behavior forever. She now has to deal with being neglected, lied to, cheated on, and gaslit for the foreseeable future OR deal with the fact that she was in the wrong from the beginning.
What a charming life.
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It was pretty small, just him liking a single comment on twitter. This was the comment in question. Just the "kids don't need online protection" thing made me laugh. Of course you'd think that, Jared.
File: 1579408053682.jpg (346.46 KB, 1080x2020, 20200118_202635.jpg)
Someone on tumblr posted Holly and Jared's Child's Play photo (thread pic) with "caption this"
The notes are absolutely roasting them.
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I know this response is from 'professor jared' but it's pretty funny
Okay, one more https://projared.tumblr.com/post/189646905916/hey-greg-im-so-happy-you-accept-im-sure-this
This post had me fucking rolling
We should just start shipping Onision+ProJared together already!
(And maybe Kai+Holly too if possible)
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I wonder how bad Heidi really was in private to make Jared want to cheat on, break up with and divorce Heidi. I mean nothing last forever I guess, if not for divorce to seperate them eventually it would have been old age.
But we can always remnisce on the good ol' days I guess.
If Jared&Heidi's divorce is finalized before February 14th then this it would be the first Valetines day when they are not a couple in any capacity. RIP
Oh gross. context is important here btw.
There's a difference between Chadtronic, someone who's channel has been fucked on and off for a long time because of various precautions Youtube has been trying to enforce on his channel despite his channel not even being intended for kids, saying this.
And then Jared, who used his fame to get nudes from fans, including minors which he admits happened (not that the minors were on purpose, etc etc)
I'm just gonna pretend he's just standing by a fellow creator on this, and not because he has any other reason
>"I wonder how bad Heidi really was in private to make Jared want to cheat on, break up with and divorce Heidi."
Right because it's clearly Heidi's fault that PedoDick couldn't keep it in his pants and had to fuck anything with a pulse that walked by. /s
If you meant Hoelly, it still doesn't matter. Holly's definitely part of the problem, but it was Jared's responsibility to remain faithful to his wife and he didn't do that. Heidi may not be a walk in the park to live with, but no body asks to be gaslight and cheated on with someone she considered a friend.
I don't get this reminisce type of post? You think they would be separated only by old age? are you kidding me? The man spent half of his marriage begging teenagers for nudes on the internet, and RP-ing an affair with a friend, and he looks like gollum with cosmetic surgery. How the heck are you romanticizing this?
We can only hope Heidi finds someone who is a closer match mentally and physically since he was always an ugly dickhead. If it wasn't Holly it would've been someone else.
It's a pretty common misconception, but most cheaters actually cheat because of something that's wrong with them
, not because of their relationship.
Can't count the number of people I know who've been through something similar who bent over backwards to make their partner happy and tried to fix the relationship.
This is entirely Jared's issue and it would've happened regardless of who he was married to.
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This got posted on PULL, but somehow didn't make its way here. Holy shit.
Doubt Ross would need to use Tinder or any dating app.
He has a huge social media following and like Arin and Dan has plenty of fangirls more than willing to be to his next wife.
Plus he is affluent within the online gaming circle as a hole, which seems like a simpler way to find someone with similar interests.
Plus why wouldnt that twitter user post the DMs? If what they said is true its exposing privacy, proof or not.
it might also be Ross who doesn't want another Holly scenario; where people idolized the relationship and acted as though their actual parents divorced when they announced their split. I can also imagine how embarrassing it would be if you found out your spouse you openly adored was cheating/abusive
and all the fans had no idea. Everyone thought they were perfect.
Or maybe it's just still a fresh relationship so it may take some time for them to feel comfortable.
Maybe he didn't want someone that just wanted him for his e-fame. Plus, I doubt he wanted it advertised that his marriage fell apart. When Heidi dropped the bombshell that blew it all wide open he didn't want to be sucked into a drama vortex then either. Even when people were spreading all sorts of rumors about him being a willing cuck. Even now all he wants is to pursue his dream, and play his new DBZ game, and hang out with his new GF in peace. But yeah, it's only hearsay now. Gonna hope she shows us proof.>>920475
Yes. Holly's remaining fans are crazy. They'd tear her to shreds.
File: 1579473072823.png (64.96 KB, 576x628, tinder.png)
The only thing I could find relating to Ross on tinder are these tweets.
I seriously doubt he'd tell anyone
that sort of thing, especially someone he just met
His girlfriend Giwi is also an animator I believe. As for what company, no clue.
But they likely met through networking and their social circles.
I just feel when you're that popular and affluent there's no need to use dating apps.
A random person saying they matched with Ross on tinder isn't exactly hardcore proof. I mean, I also think Hoelly cheated long before the divorce, but even I admit that there isn't proof that has been released by any of the parties involved to back that up.>>920475
>"Why hasn't Ross' new GF been in any of his social media posts?"
Because not everyone is a fame whore. Maybe she saw the epic failure of his very public relationship with Hoelly and wanted to avoid that.
this isn't new or milk but I found it on PULL. It's a youtube channel with two guys, Pat and Ian, who mainly discuss retro topics in a sort of podcast-y format. They begin talking about the Jared/Heidi drama at 7:37 but I've written down some key quotes to make sense of it (since it's almost 20 minutes long)
TL;DR Pat, Brent and Jared had a show they worked on. Jared felt too important and pulled out last second, effectively ending a project Pat needed because he needed the money, and acted too big and popular for the two.
> "Projared, former friend and colleague, haven't really been close to Jared in 4 or 5 years, posted online that he's getting divorced from his wife Heidi, who I do know, we used to follow each other, hang out a little at conventions.. "
> "when you see something happen to people you know it's surreal and salacious and it took on a life of its own. (mentions jared and the tumblr, posting and receiving pics from fans and the snapchat and makes a note of the underage fans) so this spun out on my birthday, and my birthday was spent sending and receiving calls and texts from mutual people like "what the fuck is going on?", one person is going "I'm shocked but not surprised", pewdiepie talked about it… "
> (mentions about jared's influence on youtube and the internet) "Looking back on my relationship with Jared, I want to talk about this because I've known Jared for ten years. I met him in late 2009 we started talking early 2010. I spoke about he was one of the guys who showed up at my panel at SGC 2010 when there were like 12 people in the room like him, spoony, james, rolfe etc. I talked to Jared early on in his career. He had 100 subs on Youtube, he had nothing, he was working for Screw Attack when they had their game store in Texas. I used to talk to Jared on Skype and even encouraged him to strike it out he was saying "hey pat do you think I should do this?" I said heck yeah go do it. He did a slenderman video that went viral in like 2011 or 12, and then he was off and running…"
> "and good for him he worked hard to do that. Not saying he wasn't talented in doing game reviews. But then you see the turn that happened. So what happened is was in the fall of 2013 I came up with an idea called "Superift Brothers" and I haven't talked about what went down. So it was supposed to be the MST3K version for videogames, cutscenes etc. And I approached Brent (BrentalFloss) and Jared and said would you guys wanna do this? would you be into this? they said yeah this sounds cool, and the idea was that this is something we could tour or do in conventions/live shows…"
> "so that fall we did the pilot, we did six episodes. And we did it all together, it was sort of written together, we'd do a google hangout, we'd time it, and we worked pretty well together. At the time, this is when Jared's star was on the rise. Brental Floss wasn't a nobody. Brent was big, the biggest one out of the 3 of us. I was the lowest one. So we did it all but then it got weird. It got weird because whenever you have a project going on with 3 powerful personalities I think along the way egos got bruised during the project. It was democratic and we had to admit writing jokes that x is better than yours/his/etc and that's how we did it. But we all for the most part pulled our own weight. We all came out with the same amount of jokes. So there was one point, this was before Magfest (he talks about needing money and needing this project to work) I would show up to these google hangouts tired with an hour or two of sleep cause I was working hard to make it work, we got into one of our sessions and there was a point where Jared and I had almost precisely the same joke. And Jared made an offhand comment I thought was funny, he said "well look at this, pat had the same joke as I did and he didn't get any sleep" and I thought he was being funny and self-deprecating so I laughed. Looking back I don't think he liked the fact I laughed. I think his ego was hurt in some weird way"
> "so from that point on, Jared had checked out because I think he decided he was better than me and Brent, that he didn't need us. So we had a commitment to do this show for at least 6 months. We put in money for an intro, me and Brent put in 350-375 between the two of us, by the way Jared you owe us your part you never paid us. It was sold out in Magfest, people liked it. And then literally two days after Magfest, Jared texted me and says 'I'm out' I don't want to do this' and pulled the rug out of me and Brent. We had worked so hard on this project. So me and Brent scrambled to find a replacement and thought fuck it, this isn't worth it"
> "and at this point onwards our relationship with Jared dissipated and I didn't talk to him much anymore cause I think he saw himself going up and Brent and Pat weren't gonna help his career. And no more checking in, you're gone. So that's how I knew Jared's development to as a person cause I saw it. I saw the change or maybe that's how it always was, where he forgets about the friends he knew cause he's bigger than us guys"
> "so when I see someone get outed for doing bad behavior, (discusses his relationship with Holly), that's some narcissistic sociopathy and that's the nicest way I can put it. Jared was always an example of what happens to people when they get Youtube fame. I feel bad for the people he's affected."
(the other guy Ian also dislikes Jared for his own personal reasons and says "Jared's always been a dick to me", Pat mentions how him and Brent discussed about the event before it actually happened that Heidi was gonna drop the bomb, so clearly this was 'insider' knowledge before it went public, they discuss about people being two faced when they get inflated egos, it's their job to make you like them, because when you like them that's how they make money, Pat says he's seen other Youtubers do this too, he never believed Jared's persona)
Jared being a self important prick is a pretty widely held opinion in the scene it seems. I haven't heard any of his peers actually say Jared is a nice or good dude.
He can't even break 100k on the vast majority of his videos now. Shits hilarious. Another washed up self important YouTuber.
As much as I can appreciate this being presented here, please be aware that Holly lurks here, so I wouldn't be surprised if these guys suddenly
have a 'change of heart' & delete the video…
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For what it's worth, apparently Pat's opinion of Jared hasn't changed.
(Also, for the sake of your own sanity, DO NOT set the comments on 'Newest')
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They were also harassed on Twitter over it in the hopes that they'd roll over like good little sheep just because Jared made a video saying "I don't remember
doing that?" a couple of times
Exactly. He clearly has used Tinder in the last year, according to his own tweets.
If he really matched with this girl and liked her, then it's not that far-fetched for him to share what happened at the end of his marriage. It would be relevant to him emotionally, in starting a new relationship, potentially with her.
At the time, Holly was so good at hiding her shitty, selfish behavior that no one was really on to her. It hadn't become public drama – quite the opposite with fans insisting that they must have split amicably and were such good friends. Ross was probably suffering in silence just like Heidi.
In that context, it's not that hard to imagine Ross venting to someone he was interested
in. Even if she was a random person he didn't know that well, he was trying to get to know her romantically. And if he did choose to vent to this girl, it clearly didn't become public drama UNTIL next May when Jared announced his divorce. She kept quiet until the whole thing exploded, shared this juicy tidbit, but regretted it enough to delete after Ross tweeted that he didn't want to be involved.
With all the context, it seems a lot more plausible.
I LOVE the fans who still insist that Jared didn't do it, even though he fucking admitted to soliciting the nudes and getting said nudes, some of which were from minors.>>920650
>"Jared said no one contacted him!"
And? The fact that he thought these youtubers should reach out to him
to clarify things rather than being proactive and doing it himself speaks volumes about him. All the people calling him an egotistical, self-important asshole are absolutely right.
You'd think that after years
on the internet, Jared would know how cutthroat 'online culture' is.
Yeah, there's this old clip of him talking about JonTron :https://m.twitch.tv/clip/AgitatedBlitheStrawberryFailFish
Not that I give two shots about JonTron, but saying he was holding them back when he easily had a larger fanbase than the rest of them combined is a joke. So NormalBoots draw a line in the sand at racism but are ok with allegedly sending nudes to underage fans.
I think the current line of thought is "OH, well, it was proven that the minors lied about their ages!" as if that excuses this dudebro running SEVEN porn blogs and using his fame under the 'sinjared' name to coerce them into sending him jerkoff material.
Which is pretty 'yikes', NormalBoots.
He could have meant anything by "holding us back".
Racism? He didn't say that was why.
It could have been planning, like Jon not wanting to go to Indy PopCon or them having to cancel plans to not having Jon.
And Jon already distanced himself from Normal Boots in late 2016 since he stopped making gaming videos.
Sure he is a veteran gamer and popular YouTuber and will bring in ticket sales for any public appearance.
But that doesn't seem to be part of his brand anymore.
He is just Jon the one-man show (minus his team of editors and filming crew).
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Jared hasn't even liked any of Holly's recent tweets but is liking almost anything this blonde Stacy tweets.
But I'm sure Holly doesn't mind at all, she's not jealous heidi type
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You don't have to take my word for it but.
I ran into Ross at Disney World, and he was accompanied by his girlfriend.
I have to say, he chose well.
Absolute prize compared to Holly or Heidi.
I don't think he hides her because of reasons related to Holly/Pigeongate, but just because of the "lovelies" who wish they were Ross's GF.
Some people like to flaunt their romance to the world, others keep it between themselves. Whatever makes you happier go for it.
Jared&Heidi, Ross&Holly, were always happy to show off and brag about their relationships on social media and ofcourse their marriages ended very "swell" as you might be aware.
>"I don't think he hides her because of reasons related to Holly/Pigeongate, but just because of the "lovelies" who wish they were Ross's GF. "
You mean the people who say shit like "absolute prize compared to holly or heidi" like it's a competition?
>"were always happy to show off and brag about their relationships on social media and ofcourse their marriages ended very "swell" as you might be aware."
It's not the 'bragging' about their marriages on social media that ruined things. It's Jared's inability to keep his wormdick in his pants and Hoelly's inability to stay faithful to anyone that isn't her latest cosplay crush. It has nothing to do with out open they were on social media.
It's funny, because Firagafox's boyfriend was a close collaborator of Heidi's. She's a badass person who I really don't think would stand for cheating. So I have to wonder if he's just trying to "win" their mutual friends this way.
Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the triangulation. Reminds me so much of my ex.
The GG fans are crazy and they'll go farther than just saying Giwi is attractive. They'll draw porn of her, attack her etc. I don't blame her and Ross for not being on socials together
And while Ross didn't, Jared definitely bragged about being married. Basically if anyone called him ugly or a anything negative about his job, he'd say "well at least I'm married unlike you". Not that that was the reason for the divorce, but Jared saw his marriage as a "gotcha" more than a union of love
He already did get plenty of backlash, which makes it all the more impressive that he actually stood his ground, unlike others who folded immediately
out of fear of retaliation.
Pat did a crossover review with Spoony way back.
Jared's incels are a minor nuisance compared to what Spoony's fanbase would do to crossover contributors back in the day.
Pat's probably unaffected.
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Heidi has stopped crediting Jared as the photographer for pics he shot. Which, I doubt Jared cares
Before she would begrudginly caption them as "photo by my ex", not anymore it seems.
Good for her.
She's been making great strides lately!
Aside from Jared stepping down from NB, they're still sticking by him.
Considering another NB guy quit in disgust when the Jared thing broke, makes me wonder if there isn't even more skeeziness behind the scenes at NB.
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Yes, Satchell. Since he left Normal Boots because of Jared and Pigeongate, Heidi seems to be cool with him.
Though its possible he had been considering leaving for sometime to do his own thing but Jared made him speed up the proccess.
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The sperg continues
Oh, boohoo, my life is so hard and people are so mean.
This woman is so insufferable. She has caused so much harm, never apologized, and still acts like she's being somehow treated unfairly by the universe.
Holly, ffs, you have an army of people constantly patting your head and coddling you, but you persistently whine about the ones who won't. Your persecution complex is hilarious and sad all at once.
"I've made mistakes."
But you haven't apologized for them, big difference
A girl this hot would never downgrade from DYKG For hideous Wormdick anyway. She’s already got someone better looking with better clout. At best you know she
tolerates him because he’s in that circle. That may be some cold comfort for Holly.>>920866
So without too much detail, what does she look like? Just curious not interested in doxxing anyone.
Alex is so fun on scary game squad, jirard is generally considered a super nice guy by everyone, except I think the guy who USED to be on scary game squad, Greg, he was best friends with Jirard for like 9 years. However there was an argument/disagreement between Greg and Jirard and Greg got kicked out of their project. Apparently NDAs are involved because Greg made a salty tweet that read like this
> I was willing to let the whole situation end with the "we decided to stop working together" line. However, Jirard then went an extra step and tried to make it seem like we were still friends. This is not the truth, and if I let that be what the public thinks it will tear at my soul. I wanted to keep it private. I dropped it there. But he tried to save face with a lie. I'm tired of dealing with this, and in the future, lies will be dealt with again. Now, hopefully no lies continue to be created. With that I will leave you with what truth I am willing to offer. This will hopefully be the last thing I say, but of course I will defend myself in the future. I leave you with this. We are no longer friends. I did not leave willingly. Don't mistake "diplomacy" for pure fabrication. The loss of friendship has hurt most. For me it was not about the money, and in no way did I benefit from this departure. Jirard did. This isn't malicious. This is the truth.
Strippin (Dodger's husband) replied to him basically saying that his version of the truth is skewed and it's bad taste to break NDA to talk about it. Projared actually retweeted Strippin's response. Now, besides what/who is to blame for the fallout, it's interesting to me that Jirard publicly tried to make it look like they were still on friendly terms, while that was absolutely NOT the case.
From what I'd read it seems both Jirard and Greg were hurting due to this disagreement (that had financial stakes). They had been like brothers for nine years and working together for quite a few. The gist of rumours is that Jirard wanted to progress the project further, but Greg didn't/Greg wanted more money than could be given to him, so he got the sack. But to this day we still don't know details.
This isn't derailing but it seems to be a "stain" on Jirard's generally spotless record as far as his image goes. I don't think I have ever seen anyone speak badly about Jirard unless they simply don't enjoy completionist content, which is another thing. He is unanimously regarded as a stellar nice guy and so I really do wonder how or why he would publicly align again with Jared when you consider he is actually close to him. Pewdiepie met Holly like once, and he is not related. Keemstar is a piece of shit. Treesicle and any other person (like creepshow) who removed their hot takes on the situation are either external and irrelevant or probably hit up legally. Satchell left, Jesse is silent, and Jirard is.. apparently siding with the asshole?
Something doesn't add up. I would hope Jirard would have better wits and sniff out the shit under Jared's shoes, but it's entirely possible he hasn't.
Jared probably does not have the money to engage legally with any big figures in the online gaming sphere.
Twitch is almost his full-time job, he had a RAID Shadow Legends sponsor but anyone with a decent following can get one.
yep there you have it.
I dont really hate Holly as much, mainly I just dislike Jared. She needs to reeally stop looking for people that say things she doesn’t like.
People are gonna say whatever they want and she needs to find a way to just ignore it if it instead of letting it consume her. (also Jared is a pos boyfriend for not defending her. Even if she is seeking out her own misery)
Jared + Holly's inheritance money could potentially be used to force people to change or take down their videos. That's what I mean. Treesicle revoked, creepshow changed her mind, Pamela Horton basically said "yeah maybe it was just me", Uno girl did a 180. The Right Opinion was close to being fair but was absolutely too focused on the "false pedo accusations can ruin a life" angle to consider the whole picture. Geek Remix's Mari is too small to even afford fighting back and kept it to her tumblr and vagueposting, and I believe Pushing Up Roses stayed quiet. Felix is Felix (so an idiot), Keemstar is shit, and H3H3 Ethan is the only person besides Pat who stood their ground and called him out.
It's way too shady how anyone smaller than them basically scuttled away into the shadows and played their game. It is really simple; the guy had an enormously large underage fan crowd. So it's a bad idea to open multiple nude blogs and snapchats. Like really, this is 1 + 1 = 2. Heidi even took a picture of a monitor with one of Chai's tumblr messages and was talking in a message that she's looking for signs of authenticity and that she has the original screenshots saved, and she'd noticed Jared spending lots of time on photoshop rather than raw screenshots from his phone.
Absolutely no dude online would like the idea of being in Jared's place with the underage nudes fiasco. So it's much easier to blame it on false allegations than question the lack of common sense from the fellow online man. Everyone who supported him used that angle: that the underage kids are lying and that's bad for us, don't do that, don't lie, poor us who thought we had legal nudes!
PushingUpRoses mentioned that Jared was an asshole who would creep on her. That was about it.
MarzGurl talked about how she and Jared used to be friends, but he dropped her when he started to get bigger. That jives with what Pat said about him.
Holly is also the same person that in her initial twitter burst, accused Heidi of coming forward to gain more twitter followers - when less than six months later, Holly had released SEVERAL clothing items featuring phrases from the shitshow so that she could profit financially.
Now, to each their own, but even if Heidi was doing it for followers, I would think that trying to profit financially was a lot skeezier.
>"I'm so tired of being painted as an irrational villain."
Fam, you literally called someone an unfixable human and emotionally abusive
just because she asked you not to fuck her husband. You ARE an irrational villain, you one woman freakshow.
>"At this point I say I'm sorry, and no one believes me"
Because you keep doing the same shit and changing absolutely nothing about your behavior. "I'm sorry" doesn't mean shit if you just keep doing it.>>921473
>"Jared probably does not have the money to engage legally"
No, but his Hoelly Cumrag mistress does.
Maybe if her apologies were ever sincere.
They never are.>>921493
IIRC both PushingUpRoses and MarzGurl stood by their stories.
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>>921519>IIRC both PushingUpRoses
PUR said that Jared just tried to flirt with her once, but said it only happened one time. This was also the time period Jared and Heidi were practicing polygamy, so makes sense he would be flirting with other girls. >>921317
Yeah but he should. That way Holly can see Ross and everyone else affected by her is much happier without her around. Though I don't think it's a case of Ross isolating her, more that Giwi is avoiding the limelight but is welcome to enter the public eye whenever she's ready.
>"Yeah but he should"
No, he shouldn't. Using your relationship just to rub in your ex's face is a sure fire way to shoot yourself in the foot. I'm glad Ross has moved on and is happy - there's no point in him throwing himself back into the mud where Hoelly has made her home.
>"Holly can see…much happier without her around"
It doesn't matter. Narcs will NEVER accept that the problems in their life are their fault - it will ALWAYS be the fault of someone else.
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Oh wait, nevermind. The OP is now (or once again) a Holly Conrad convert. How unsurprising.
Yeah, well, sometimes it's a lot easier to say "Fuck it, you're fine" rather than endure HOURS of endless harassment by a bunch of idolizing rabid fans.
Most celebs would call out their fanbase for acting like idiots - but Hoelly seems to endorse, if not openly encourage, it.
It's incredible that Holly receives FAR less hate than Jared, but she's so self-centered that she can't even empathize with her own boyfriend. She's constantly freaking out about her own reputation, while Jared's is immeasurably more damaged by this whole fiasco. If they were truly innocent (yeah right) then he would have suffered far more than she has, but she doesn't care about that. Only herself.
Jared gets pissy enough to show his ass on Twitter every now and then, but he's not extremely milky just because he usually keeps his mouth shut. Holly, meanwhile, has faced far less criticism but can't stop screeching "WHAT ABOUT ME", resulting in huge lolcow threads.
Jared must be pretty tired by now.
That's just it - Outside of his embarassing "You've been lied to!" video and the occasional tantrum, Jared isn't milk worthy. He keeps his mouth shut (at least publicly) so people generally don't give a fuck about him anymore.
Hoelly, however, can't NOT be doted on by her fanbase. >>921636
CupcakeValkyrie is one of the most militant of Hoelly's fanbase who will straight up throw hands if you dare to say anything even remotely negative towards her. She has even topped Denica in terms of fucking ridiculous, like Hoelly wouldn't gladly throw them all under the bus at first chance.
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>"I’m sorry if I brought any negative attention your way."
You quote-retweeted her in front of your stan-army, you asshole.
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If you think about it the early years of Jared and Heidi's marriage were the glory era of YouTube and online gaming.
Jared&Heidi,Ross&Holly,Arin&Suzy all happily married (I hope so anyway). Game Grumps had TableFlip which was way more entertaining than the boring 10 Minute Power Hour.
I notice the downfall era seems to begin after Jared joins Dice,Camera Action.
Maybe there is a different timeline where Jared declines the job offer from WoTC and everything else is all good as well. Too bad we're not in it.
>"Sorry if I brought any negative attention your way"
Bitch, you openly talked about how "awful" people are to you (insinuating that op of that tweet was doing the same) when you KNOW your stans were going to rush to your aid like a fleet of attack helicopters.
Shut the fuck up, you two-faced ho. You knew EXACTLY what you were doing, Hoelly.>>921644
>"Begins after Jared joins DCA…Maybe there is a different timeline where…everything else is all good"
Nope. DCA didn't make Jared shitty - It just gave him a public venue and a wider swath of fans to abuse.
Also gotta love how her stans were ragging on this person for "talking about Holly behind her back!"
How does it feel, Holly?
I've heard of someone else
was just as 'trapped' as you were not long ago.
Her name was Heidi
I can't believe I'm saying this, but at least
TND's radicalized army of fans are catty & nasty upfront. None of this fake "Please be kind! ~uwu" shit.
The girl damn near gave up her career to defend this worm that couldn’t even be bothered to defend her publicly…
I can’t bring myself to hate her when she thought she was doing the right thing.
It’s a damn shame what girls would do for men that barely care about them, i’ve been in the same boat too.
As far as I can tell, nope. He deadass let this dumb broad fall on the sword and take the hit for him, and doesn't so much as post one "Chill the fuck out on the Hoelly hate" tweet.>>921766
>"I can't bring myself to hate her when she thought she was doing the right thing"
Uh….she still fucked a married man, called his wife an unfixable abuser (when all she did was say "Hey, maybe DON'T fuck my husband please"), and justified this dudebro abusing his fame to get fap material of his fanbase.
She's still a piece of shit - she's just a dumb one for hitching herself to an even more useless piece of shit.
lmao ok: except holly DID manipulate Jared to steal him from the marriage. Regardless if there were problems, regardless if Jared couldn't keep it in, Holly still went way out of her way to "save" HIM. Not once did Holly ever show Heidi any empathy for her marriage troubles. Not once did she think "hey Jared you know what, that's fucked up to Heidi".
Heidi gave consent to certain situations and didn't give consent to others. She didn't give consent to Holly. That's all you really needed to know. But the "no" wasn't enough for either Jared or Holly.
While Jared could ruin the marriage totally by himself, Holly STILL inserted herself in again and again into a situation that was none of her business. While married to someone else too, I may add. And then to top it off, has refused to see her wrongdoings, has called Heidi unfixable, has used someone's suicide to make herself feel like a victim
, disrespected her own marriage, has advertised herself as a mental health advocate/guru and can't practice what she preaches, has used her platform to randomly target other people who don't even @ her, has earned herself a bad rep even during her cosplay days, and is currently selling merch mocking the real pain of someone who used to consider her a friend.
So yeah, she should be fucking burned on the stake. This wasn't one mistake. This has been a SAGA of conscious mistakes. One by fucking one.
Don't you find it weird that Heidi didn't release any texts from her conversations with Jared? (the ones where he is ordering food or traveling are not really the ones I mean). In both her therapist texts and her friend's texts she references that she was away from him in Atlanta for two extended periods of time when he asked to separate. She claims nothing of the sort actually happened (he didn't "technically" break it off in October, only in February) but her therapist text to Jared seem pretty direct. And if they were in different cities they were certainly communicating even partly by texts. So where are those? I get why Jared didn't release them - he didn't actually want to speak about his marriage and even the screen with the text from the therapist was in background, redacted name and it might have been any of his friends he was messaging it - I think in the video he only used it as a timestamp that other people knew he was trying to separate already in autumn. But Heidi was not shy to share stuff about her marriage at all. So why not show those messages where he is still pretending to try to work on the marriage?
I know, you will say she has shown enough already. But that's the sort of hole in her story that pj&holly stans use to say - she is not showing them because they will not support her narrative.
that is some goalpost moving, though. What could those "missing" texts prove that would change the narrative from everything already shown? Like based on streams of them interacting, based on released texts, based on holly's behaviour and flip flopping sexualities, based on the snaps and the blogs and all that, what puzzle piece could possibly be missing that would benefit jared/holly and incriminate heidi?
further yet, if there WERE texts that would benefit jared's position then why didn't HE talk about them? If your argument's weight is that Heidi didn't show them because they make her look bad, then the opposite argument is equally valid
that why didn't Jared show them, because they make him look good?
The entire fiasco blew up because of the divorce and cheating; the blogs and nudes was a followup and had he not acted this way/blocked Heidi prior to his twitter announcement it is highly unlikely anyone would have come out. Discussing his marriage would definitely benefit him and any attempt at saying "oh he didn't want to discuss it" is purely hogwash because he was perfectly fine letting everyone bully and mock her.
In Heidi's response stream, she explained that she couldn't show the texts on screen, because it's illegal. Holly did exactly that, but no doubt she uses her wealth to squash any attempts at a lawsuit. Thus Heidi could only mention the sort of content that was in the texts.
Unfortunately, this is a case where you either believe her or you don't. The legal ramifications she could face from a screeching trash bitch aren't worth it.
The same stream where she felt it was not relevant to mention she was taking dicks from other dudes, how many or who they were.
Since her dating different guys would obviously have zero effect on Jared's actions and emotions during their marriage and not motivate him to draw his eyes to another woman.
She gambled her marriage away by proposing polyamory while forgetting her husband played dice for a living.
okay how can you be THIS dense to not understand that even if Heidi theoretically took a million dicks it's irrelevant if Jared consented to it, but did not respect HER boundaries and lack of consent with Holly?
imagine having zero emotional intelligence to get this concept, is2g. you should all be banned from having relationships until you can figure this consent shit out
So basically, you're assuming that this happened in the first place and mad that she didn't confirm your suspicions?
What about all the other times she's been vocal about her discomfort with sex and relationships after going through this trauma? You won't believe that, but you'll believe a fantasy about her fucking a bunch of unknown dudes with no proof but a vague statement from Jared about how she wanted to be poly?
part of is is that the pedo allegations were the main newsworthy thing, so anyone and their mom who read on of the major news sites that feature the story can hate on jared, but to get a taste of holly's crazy you'd have to keep up with her twitter. the news articles only mentioned her relative to jared, they didn't mention her setting herself on fire on twitter or attacking every rando who tweeted an untagged opinion about her. bless this site for archiving it all though.>>921644
Are you the same weird AU fanfic anon from before and can you please stop? no one cares about the weird AU where everyone has a happy marrige, people are here for the milk.
Jared didn't release any info about his marriage outside of the bare minimum and that was after the entire scandal started. He also spent only like 2/48ths of his return video on the marriage and that was mostly to tell people that his marriage is none of their business.
There are a lot of things that could be in those texts that could change the narrative - showing Heidi knowing that he wants a divorce already in October and asking to separate; and quite possibly showing how exactly that wasn't "technically" breaking up in her eyes? It can show she was fully aware of everything that was going on from that moment on and wasn't gaslighted but in denial. It could show that woman that Holly claimed "screamed on the meeting with their lawyers that she doesn't believe in divorce and will not do it". It can show that she was threatening to ruin DCA and his career and their lives (the texts Holly released between Heidi and Jared that don't have timestamp on them) way before Holly even moved to Washington when Jared was going on mental health retreats. It might show Jared's responses to all of her accusations to abuse or cheating or neglect and how he handled that situation and it might actually show him in better light than "abusing pedophile" .. it can have anything.
btw releasing the texts wouldn't be illegal but her lawyers might have finally tried to explain to her that the trial where she should be presenting this evidence is not Twitter but court of law.
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Has Heidi, let herself go?
After being a victim of adultery, one's confidence and self-esteem can be damaged.
This results in one of two things.
A) Give up, let yourself go and gaze into the abyss.
B) Be hurt, but motivated, hit the gym nearly 24/7 and come back stronger than ever before.
She hasn't posed in a skin-tight cosplay since A-Kon 2019, roughly 6 months ago.
Either because she doesn't have a reason to or, maybe her old costumes don't fit anymore?
Though maybe she is becoming more of a homebody and lost interest in going to cons as much (due to personal and financial reasons).(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
>"Heidi was yelling that Holly has manipulated and stolen Jared from her as if their marriage was perfect before"
Their marriage wasn't perfect - but Jared might have been more inclined to actually put some work in, if Hoelly hadn't been whispering in his ear that Heidi was ACTUALLY abusing him (and not the reality, which was that HE was abusing HER).
>"Heidi was okay with it for quite a while and sending her own friends to send him nudes"
Let's see: Heidi having her grown ass friends send her grown ass husband nudes VS Jared doing so and having "Hey, you're 18+, right?" be his only way of verifying that he isn't getting kiddie porn…
Yeah, I can see how Heidi is in the wrong here /s>>921853
>"Don't you find it weird that Heidi didn't release any texts from her conversations with Jared?"
Considering they're in the middle of legal proceedings, no - that's pretty par for the course.
>"he didn't actually want to speak about his marriage"
Except for his initial post where he pretended to be doing this for Heidi's mental health - and not because he had been fucking his co-worker mistress behind his wife's back for MONTHS.
>"she felt it was not relevant to mention she was taking dicks from other dudes"
Because it isn't. Jared was perfectly fine with her "taking dicks from other dudes". Heidi had asked him specifically not to fuck Hoelly and he did it anyway. That's what crossed the line from Open/Poly to straight up cheating.
>"btw releasing the texts wouldn't be illegal"
Except it would but okay pj2 stan. >>921941
>"Has Heidi, let herself go?"
What the fuck, Anon? Just because she's not wearing slutty, skin-tight cosplays right now doesn't mean she's….idk, eating nothing but ice cream and put on 100 lbs.
Hoelly, we know this is you - Picking apart a prettier woman is sort of your M.O.
Is it crack that you're smoking, anon? Heidi looks fine, healthy and cute here lol
"Let herself go" lmao that's pathetic levels of concern trolling. Off you fuck back to KF now.
I think anon's point is - it isn't illegal to just release some
texts, either all of them are illegal and she already broke that by posting some, or none of them are illegal but she is not posting them because of other reason.
>>921766>I can’t bring myself to hate her when she thought she was doing the right thing.
I doubt she was. She just wanted Jared for herself.
Plus we're still talking about a woman who scammed a cancer patient out of thousands.
And tried to make Etika's tragedy all about her and her clown emojis.
And despite being a "mental health advocate" was perfectly fine with referring to the wife of the dude she's boning "bipolar and unfixable".
And never really shows genuine remorse for actions, it's always either using the mental illness as an excuse or a "sorry you misunderstood me" or just "I DID NOTHING WRONG".
So I can easily bring myself to hating her.
Also - sleeping with someone who is trying to leave an abusive
relationship is just wrong
& will only result in more
abuse. It doesn't matter how horny they were when they came to you, you make sure they're out of there & safe before
all of that 'sexual healing' or whatever they called it can begin.
What if he wanted
Heidi to eventually find out?
Were three posts for the same thing really necessary, Anon?
Jared can WANT Heidi to find out all he wants - he succeeded. He's still a cowardly piece of shit for letting her find out rather than saying "Babe, I'm fucking Holly and leaving you to be with her, end of fucking story"
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Does anyone know much about Suzy and Heidi's friendship?
Seems like they were cool with each other, though not that close.
Which is strange, considering how Heidi was once good friends with Holly who was good friends with Suzy. You'd think Heidi and Suzy would be more connected because of Holly and their respective spouses also being friends and living in the same area at one point.
And even now they wouldn't have a reason to be on bad terms.
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The tumblr that has been firmly anti-holly just received this message - anyone that watches the stream know if this is the truth or not?
Holly spent a year telling everyone she knew that Heidi was abusive
, long before the situation went public. People like the Game Grumps probably believed her.
Hell, Holly's sister
was tweeting that Heidi was super abusive
towards Jared after Heidi first announced the cheating.
Holly has a sister?>>923853
Not just Holly, Jared was isolating Heidi and pulling the same scam too.
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Most likely a friend that refers to her as a 'sister'.
Makes you wonder how many people who barely
know Heidi that she showed these texts to?
Can't confirm but IIRC she tweeted something similar a while back too.
Jared seems to just have no spine unless he's hiding behind the internet, he'll be a smarmy douche on Twitter but when it comes to divorce filings and meetings, he chickens out.
Wouldn't be surprised if he's holding out hope that Heidi might take him back if things don't work out with Holly.
I remember Heidi tweeting that when Jared whined to her that he 'didn't know' if she or Holly was 'manipulating' him she fired back that she's not gonna take him back regardless of how he feels.
…Unless if Jared thinks he can break her will if he acts sad enough…
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Not milk but I will try to go through the existing stream archives and future ones to clip any references to Jared.
Here is one I found: https://clips.twitch.tv/EsteemedCreativeTaroBuddhaBar
She talks about wanting to visit the local Ren Faire, but is scared to go there because that's the type of place Jared would hang out at.
And ends with "Hopefully they'll just move away". Them meaning Jared and Holly.
Though I am pretty sure Jared and Holly broke up. And if that were the case then.
If Jared were to see Heidi again, he would probably just make eye contact and just leave. When Heidi discovered the cheating he left until Heidi moved out. And his distant behavior is more evident now since he won't even show up to court.
If Holly were to see Heidi, she would –probably– try to befriend Heidi. Saying "Jared screwed me over too, we have something in common now! I am sorry, let's be friends again", not sure how Heidi would react, not very pleasantly I imagine.
I just can't imagine either acting aggressively towards Heidi.
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Here is a few more mentions. It seems she is not above mentioning the "good memories", even though like mentioned in the above clip that she does not want to see him again. https://clips.twitch.tv/AntediluvianUglyClipsdadAsianGlowhttps://clips.twitch.tv/FitOpenEndiveYouDontSay
Both of those clips are essentially the same topic just from different streams. It seems the best memories Jared and Heidi had, or at least the ones she is willing to bring up currently are the ones involving Aries.
Maybe that is the only thing they could ever agree or work together on, was Aries, because they both loved him, I mean how could you not? He's adorable and fluffy.
I know she did mention the divorce once and I didn't want to clip it because if she catches on to the clips being made immediately after it being mentioned she will probably stop, so will have to be done retroactively.
"Though I am pretty sure Jared and Holly broke up."
Wait, did I miss something?
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There's some confirmation in the recent court records for the divorce. It doesn't say who, but there have been delays for "absence unavailability" twice in December. Their court date is now delayed until April! Guess Holly's got Jared chained to her bed until spring?
Also worth noting that there was a motion in November to prevent either of them from making public anything their lawyer learns from discovery.
so realistically what happens if jared doesn't attend the meetings? is there any practical reason beyond pettiness that he could benefit from dragging it out, like idk he delays paying heidi something? I don't know anything about divorce legalities and processes. I would say he's just lazy and/or unmotivated but I would have thought getting the divorce done and over with would make life easier for him. And for Holly getting him divorced quicker would mean she is easier to snag him.
I can't imagine Heidi would benefit from it either, since it's "the last string" attaching her to Jared. The sooner she's loose from him the better
>>924169>is there any practical reason beyond pettiness that he could benefit from dragging it out
Nothing practical, but remember this is the guy who skedaddled out of a restaurant as soon as he thought he got recognized.
Dude's utterly afraid of confrontation of any sort.
I think it's the fear of a confrontation.
"But she yelled at me
Suck it up & cut the string already, jackass. …Unless of course there's something you still
want from her?
(Hey Holly, I know you lurk here, so if you're reading this, please tell Jared to just go to court & finish this already!)
To me, this is just Jared being Jared. Financial and emotional abuse. He wants to have her on the ropes, and bleed her dry financially, and exhaust her as a revenge for daring to stand up for herself and in public too.
It would be logical for him to hand her the divorce ASAP but he's just a fuckboi who wants to cling to the last vestiges of control of his ex-wife. He wasn't interested in her when they were married, but now that she's left him, he wants her under his thumb.
Even Onision can show up to his court hearing but Jared can't.
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>>923833>You'd think Heidi and Suzy would be more connected
I mean….why? Just because they're not ride or die BFFs doesn't mean they're on bad terms. I don't think Holly and Suzy were even that close? Cordial sure. All the boys are bffs maybe, but Suzy and Holly were really nothing more than work colleagues. Holly and Heidi were closer because their husbands were close and Heidi and Holly had more in common that Suzy and Holly ever did with their cosplay and as it would turn out, their taste in men.
If my husband's friend's wife's friend turned out to be having a career destroying affair with my husband's friend's wife, that destroyed my husband's friend's marriage and then my husband's friend's wife's friend's wife accused him of being a pedo…..why bother trying to sort any of it out? Too messy, at most it was probably like pic related. Besides, Suzy's always been threatened by other women in the GG-sphere, she's always wanted to be the only hAwT gAmEr GuRl. Why would she invite a hot heartbroken single girl into their group to take attention from her?>>923960
Not a reference really, but there's a stream where she's working on her winter Zelda cosplay using her vinyl cutter and Jared pops in at the beginning to try and help her fix it. (skipped around through it recently cause I was considering buying that same machine).
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lmao i thought someone was posting holly conrad's tweets in the onision thread
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Onision will never take the uwubekinduwu Washington State title from Holly.
But if Heidi posted a message like this, you guys would be all up her cunt calling her a strong goddess lmao.
Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the way this sentence is formed message wise. It's a normal sentence that could do without the unnecessary breaks.
Analyze for me how: "Be nice to people" "you don't know what they've been through or stories (lives) are" is something relating to middle school? "The least we can do is try to be kind to others" is a statement even heidi has said and she didn't get flack for it.
I don't care for hoelly but damn you autists are nitpicky.
Oh please, anon. It should be clear by now that "be kind to others" is only something Holly says when she wants people to be kind to HER.
She certainly wasn't being kind when she called Heidi unfixable or when she decided to hijack Etika's death to cry about how people were sending her clown emojis.
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she wasn't nice to ross, heidi, etika, Rana McAnear, mass effect fans, Sovrin, random people on twitter, the person whose book she stole from the witch altar, the participants of HoC and basically anyone around her that she doesn't benefit from
she'd rather put her fingers in her ears and scream "be nice!" over and over than take responsibility for herself
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what's this? a pattern of tying your self-worth on a fictional character? a sour attitude towards "popular" things? notlikeothergirls-ism?
it's almost like it's a personality trait she's had forever and not a recent development
(not shading you anon, just reminding the hypocrisy of her actions)
imagine hating blonde hair because your choice didn't win lol
Imagine saying that female representation is worthless if she's blonde. That's… insanely petty. Blonde girls don't count because they're generic! Fem Shep has to be notlikeothergirls too!!!
The hair color was the only difference between the designs. Insane.
Did anyone ever find out if she did scan and release that one Area 51 guy's book/pamphlet/whatever it was on her Patreon?
Because I'd add that to the list.
>>924747>Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the way this sentence is formed message wise. It's a normal sentence that could do without the unnecessary breaks.
….so she deserves asspats for having an elementary school level understanding of the English language? She has about an elementary school level of maturity too.
>Analyze for me how: "Be nice to people" is a statement even heidi has said and she didn't get flack for it.
Because Heidi isn't a homewrecker who broke up 2 marriages. It's not that hard to understand, truly. Do you not understand this basic concept of "context"? Hilter and Buddhism both used the swastika, do you need someone to analyze the difference for you there too? >>924764
Because we were all too busy nitpicking Snooz, Holly seemed benign and quirky at the most in comparison. She just wasn't that interesting because she and Ross seemed
healthier than Arin and Snooz.
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except the problem was never just about "divorce". He never "just" divorced Heidi. He manipulated her, cheated on her emotionally with his roleplaying and then physically with a pile of garbage, said pile of garbage also proceeded to not only lie to Heidi but manipulate her as well as manipulating Jared. And then to top it off block her before making the announcement to prevent her from saying anything.
Your boi Jared could have just filed for divorce without all that bullshit Heidi was put through. He could have been a fucking decent person and NOT CHEAT ON HIS WIFE. Then be free to chase Holly into her birdcage and touch her cloaca all day long if he wanted to.
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Supermega guys just casually announcing their listening to ProJared's old theme music
If you don't know they made thishttps://twitter.com/matthwatson/status/1142632533688905728?s=19
That Jared thought was a parody of him, which even if it was hardly seemed like it was meant to be offensive since it would only be a spoof of his channel and not his actions.
Lol Arin and Ross used to kind of joke about him too, like how they made fun of Jared's last name in Dragons in Places. Though it seemed kind of innocent.
Also care to show sources?
>with all the crying over the ruined marriages one would imagine this forum filled with puritanical 17th century housewives.
If you don't want to get caught cheating, then don't get into a commited realationship.
Nothing archaic or outdated about that.
LOL what an obvious pick me troll. It is not archaic or """puritanical""" to respect your partner, keep boundaries, or stop yourself from fucking your friend's spouse behind their back. I'd hope you are smarter in your personal relationships than you sound, anon, but it's likely the only conflict you face on that front happens when mommy won't wash your cum-encrusted socks, so you're probably golden
Puritanical, fucking lol…
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But there's evidence of Heidi messing around on the side too.
Example this from DragonCon 2017 (which was when they were poly) and her saying she's going to "find Link". Implying she is intending to fraternize with another man specifically one cosplaying as Link.
Which is probably why Jared uploaded his rebuttal video when he did, as payback to when Heidi cheated on him during Dragon Con in the past.
She had her RP fantasy kink too just like Jared&Holly.
Pretty sure Ross wasn't into that sort of thing, he's the only normal person out of the 4. He only cosplayed to win Holly's heart (biggest mistake of his life).
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Bro she's just casually cosplaying as Zelda in that picture. It's really not that deep
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imagine saying unironically that a random instagram caption means heidi was running off to find guys to fuck and that's what bothered jared two years later
bUtTeRy MaLeS: the p2j edition
denser than cement soup, this one
This is it fam. This is the proof that Heidi was fucking every male Link cosplayer back in 2017. Our poor gamerbro Jared was sitting sad at home, making a nude blog on a kiddie site all alone, while Heidi was fucking everything in her sight. We got her farmerinas, time to start buying Holly's new merch as an apology.
Well fucking played, anon! The Hocarina of Time, indeed
Is this Holly?
The "Hi Holly" joke is played out but the "17th century puritanical witchhunt" coupled with shifting the goalposts from cheating and abuse to just harmless divorce… All out of Holly's recent playbook.
Punctuated with passive "she can live with her bad choices" and a hatred of pretty girls…
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Holly and Jared didn't cheat!
And if they did, it wasn't "really" cheating
And if it was, the concept of marriage is outdated
And if it's not,
Heidi deserved it.>>924950
Yeah, Heidi is lucky she got abused so that she can build her confidence "for real" now. /s
Honestly, both sides can play this game
It wasn't polyamory.
And if it was, it wasn't with my consent.
And if it was, I revoked it at unspecified time for ONLY them two.
And if I didn't, nobody on the internet will believe you anyway.
polyamory requires consent for every case, ya daft cunt. That's the whole point, that couples are aware and agree and are free to say "no" when it crosses a line.
If there is no consent and no awareness from your partner that you are with someone else, it's called CHEATING
i dont know how many times it has to be said but their polyamory was with the basis of consent.
Also allowing your spouse to fuck someone else shouldnt include that person telling that spouse that they're the first person they've ever actually loved (while beind married mind you) and trying to convince them from that point to divorce you.
If Holly and Jared were just fuck buddies I HIGHLY doubt that Heidi would have cared.
It was the fact that Holly was actively being a homewrecker trying to separate them.
I really dont see what's so hard to understand about that.
Heidi had another man's dick inside her during her relationship with Jared, her "emotions" are invalid. Clearly she didn't love Jared that much to open the marriage and date other guys first.
Same with Jared's emotions mind you, he can't be upset about Heidi messing around when he was too.
Damn nutcases these people
People can love and still have open marriages/swing. It's been a thing forever.
Also love this demonizing of Heidi exercising her right to poly, with the consent of her husband and even inviting him to join. While Jared gets a pass even tho there wasn't consent and with a married woman who also didn't have her husband's consent
if he did hire them then he shouldn't, they are terrible at it. He needs a refund.
I think it's just a troll scrote who has nothing better to do than make stupid as fuck arguments in a clearly pro-heidi thread just to rattle some conversation. Probably a person with dorito dust on their fingers and energy drinks who can't keep a relationship, if they even get one. Otherwise they wouldn't sit and debate about the ethics of polyamory journalism kek.
And when they act all "but heidi could have photoshoped/faked it!" then you have to acknowledge that jared could also fake the tumblr texts. Why would you take Jared's point at face value? The guy who has pushed out fellow male youtubers from his friend circle (pat and co.), the guy who send his dick pics everywhere, who had seven porn blogs, who cheated on his wife, who flirted with other female youtubers (instead of just finding a rando woman, don't fuck where you work), who acts like a moron, yes clearly with his long track record of being a decent person he is the one in the right.
Seriously, the trolls don't want to see the pattern because it ruins their idea that a male nerd was actually a creep and scumbag to people in general, not even just women. Jared "winning" over CP allegations is a victory to them.
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This sounds like bullshit (why would GF9 basically just give the okay to a Twitter rando instead of making their own announcements) but if it's not… first: JFC, but also, why the sudden return of the Wormdick's character after canning DCA AND pulling his Marty Stu from Idle Champions??
(also fuck these chuds using Community catchphrases in support of Wormdick and Hoelly)
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Considering this was also said in some DCA or PJ2 Discord regarding the perv's removal from Idle Champions, either they're playing up appearances to keep the pissbabies at bay, or it really is just the higher ups understanding just how much of a fucking creeper Jared is, and nobody else is bothered because he's never done anything bad to them.
>"all up her cunt calling her a strong goddess lmao"
Heidi is getting hate for daring to say "Hey, my husband has been fucking his whore for MONTHS before we separated". Holly's getting shit for being said whore.>>924750
Bingo. "Be kind to others" is really Hoelly speak for "Be kind to me". If she gave a fuck about others, she wouldn't have immediately blamed the victims
who fell for Jared's schtick of "body positivity" instead of calling him out for it being inappropriate from the jump.>>924870
I don't know if she did or not - but it was STILL an stupid thing to announce that you were thinking of doing on a livestream to thousands of people.>>924950
>"Divorces happen adn life goes on after it"
Right. Heidi has moved on from her cheating piece of trash ex husband. Holly and Jared both still allude to it on a regular basis.>>925075
>"There's evidence of Heidi messing around on the side too"
She was in ONE LDR relationship, and as soon as she asked Jared for monogamy, she cut that shit off.
>"Example this from DragonCon 2017"
Here's the difference: Jared never said shit about her being in other relationships. If he had a problem and she didn't stop, I'd be giving her just as much shit.
>"She had her RP fantasy kink too just like Jared&Holly"
Except she never fucked around with people behind their respective spouses backs and then gaslit them.>>925341
Sorry, Anon - I think you just need to burn the whole thing down and start over.>>925461
Eh, when their boards run dry, they try to tap LolCow for milk >>925608
Not to mention Dan-Dan-TheMan who admitted that Holly had given him info that he was pumping up before pulling the "She asked me not to release it, so I won't" card.
Yeah, WormDick effectively blew his own foot off with that one. You don't get to not just horrifically fuck up but then spit at them on your way out, and still expect them to bring you back.>>925753
I'd be more inclined to believe that this is just them trying to keep appearances and keep the ProJared stans from mobbing them with hate too. Every thing that has been associated with Jared/Hoelly is stuck in permanent damage control mode until those two idiots decide to move the fuck on.
what an odd time to get caught up in semantics, anon. Sounds like nitpicking only when it benefits you. I am positive you extend the same courtesy to Heidi as well in whatever troll cave you reside in with your fellow pj2
also fyi she was "asexual" for most of her marriage with Ross. Then she turned pansexual, then demisexual, then.. asexual again? Holly is a "pin the tail on the sexuality" game whenever it suits her
you are the one getting caught up in semantics, anon. demisexual is halfway between being sexual and asexual and it means she didn't have sexual urges towards most things/people/stimuli that sexual people would have. Pansexual means she doesn't care about the gender of the person she is attracted to which also makes sense when you put forward that text between her and Heidi where she explains Ross has allowed her to have interactions with women before. None of these are excluding each other - there is a spectrum of asexuality where you can go from not being interested in having sex or not responding to sexual stimuli, to actually being repulsed by sexual references or mentions. >>925827
Yeah, can you learn to read. Where the fuck the previous person referenced called her "Jared's whore"?
Do you claim she wasn't identifying as asexual before her relationship with Ross? Or that they didn't have sex because of it? Not sure what your beef is with someone in their late 20s or early 30s exploring and defining their sexuality but if you haven't had many relationships before this period that's exactly when you would do it.
Paraphrasing to call Holly a whore is the puritan BS this place is surprising me with. Which was the whole point of my previous post.
you do you, anon. Judging by Heidi's texts, Holly didn't know they will proposition her and didn't know her reaction will be positive. Which is what freaked out Heidi. None of this was initiated by the outsider in the marriage. They invited her in.
You can claim that RPing sexual relationship between their characters is having an actual sexual relationship but it is not - it is fantasy. And considering the amount of erotic fanfic Jared was requesting on behalf of Heidi too, it wasn't something extraordinary for that couple either.
anon you have forgotten the turn of events. Heidi noticed Jared and Holly's increased flirtatious behavior and asked Jared to finally deal with it because it was driving her crazy how they never acknowledged it. This led to the "walk" where they ditched their phones and went trailing off for hours alone outside. Heidi thought Ross at least was aware/knew about this and consented which is the conversation Heidi posted where Holly said he doesn't know yet and has to tell him, but when Holly started acting possessive and emotionally attached she felt uncomfortable and asked to cut that off. Which they didn't.
All this is easily obtained information you can string along from screenshots of texts and also Heidi's stream. I really can't help you further than that.
RPing a sexual relationship between a separately married couple is obviously dicey and the lines between fantasy and reality blurred, so clearly it was a bad idea in the first place. It also created sexual feelings between them, which they fanned the flames with using sexual RPing and art commissions. Again, I can't help you further if you can't see how that's a bad cycle.
>"Calling a woman a whore…"
Fam, she stepped out on her husband to fuck someone else's husband. Asexual or not, that makes her a whore. I'd call her the more mild "mistress" but Hoelly said that was misogynistic, so I thought whore was equally fitting.>>925832
That's not what demisexual means at all - in fact, it's just needing romantic feelings before you experience sexual attraction, but okay. Go off.>>925843
We get it - You watched Handmaid's Tale and learned the word 'puritan'. Move on, Anon.
"Bingo. "Be kind to others" is really Hoelly speak for "Be kind to me". If she gave a fuck about others, she wouldn't have immediately blamed the victims
who fell for Jared's schtick of "body positivity" instead of calling him out for it being inappropriate from the jump."
This is what's been bothering me lately. She says "be kind", but she doesn't actually stick up for the people who are being bullied by her fans. I think I would genuinely have a lot more respect for her if she applied this "be kind" mantra to standing up for others on a regular basis. I feel like her actions have consistently spoken louder than her words, and unfortunately they don't match.
Also, I watched both her and Heidi's streams, and in my humble opinion, Heidi's is better. She has a nice voice, she does crafts, and she interacts with the community in what feels like a really genuine way.
Holly's streams make me uncomfortable. First, not her fault, but her voice really grates on my nerves. I could ignore that if the content was good enough, but I don't feel like it is. For example the streams take on something way beyond her scope of expertise, and it feels like they don't actually deliver on what's advertised. At least with Heidi, I know I'm getting "crocheting" or "making a rug", but with Holly, I don't really get "mental health help". I mostly get her chatting about her birds… Which is fine, but then make it a stream about birds? That would be so much more interesting and she actually has that experience!
Mental Health Monday sounds great in theory, but in practice… what is she actually offering to the people who come? Like, if it was a nice quiet corner of the internet with soothing sounds, that might be something. Or if it was a "hey, here's a professional with me this week to talk about xxx" then that could be helpful.
I will give her that her intro animations and music are both nice. That's the only part of her streams I've enjoyed.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble. Not really relevant to the drama.
>she stepped out on her husband
her husband is said by Jared to have been supportive of them and even visited him in person in March? 2018 to express that
her husband is said by Dan's anonymous source (that gave him screenshots of text messages, which Dan later didn't post because Holly told him not to) to have been fully aware and supportive too
her husband also separate from her without calling her whore; got a new gf and has moved on; and asked to not be involved in that drama because he is not part of it;
even Heidi said that Ross was aware and didn't like her; you claim that Holly didn't tell him because of a text she wrote HOURS after that first meeting where she said literally "I first need to talk with Ross before anything goes further" specifying that she would do so after Anna's party (Anna Prosser which has birthday around the time of these events)
You say "Heidi asked Jared to finally deal with it" but her texts to Holly say "I demanded he reveal his feelings to you because he would have never done it otherwise" and reveal how surprised Holly was of the direction her visit to their family took and the walk in the forest and her very sudden return to LA the day after
so yea, someone is forgetting the turn of events, alright. Someone that hasn't read the screens, just anons interpretations here.
If Ross was so supportive he wouldnt have stayed silent. Plain and simple. If he was all for everything wouldnt it simply make more sense to say 'Holly and I have been separated emotionally before all this happened so I have no part in it'
Meanwhile after their divorce Ross was notably depressed and there were clips in previous threads where he subtly talked about how he a 'past relationship' was bad and abusive
Also Ross is so openly opinionated and is so always there to stand by people why would he not have said ANYTHING to prevent his thousands of fans from calling Holly a whore? If he's SO supportive of their relationship he would have said something like 'Holly and I were not really 'together' when any of this happened so please dont attack her for that'
Also Jared has lied more consistently than Heidi. An 'anonymous source' that is like a third hand source?
Ross is not the type of person to drag up things like that but he IS the kind of person who would stand up for someone being falsely accused ESPECIALLY if it was in his name.
except ross and holly visited in March because Holly told ross that jared is abused by heidi, not to support the relationship
except ross was tolerable to the idea of holly experimenting with women but not with men, most especially with someone close like jared, and by the texts holly sent he didn't know until things already got out of control
except ross spent months on arin and suzy's couch being depressed as fuck, stopped streaming, was often drunk way past a normal point, spoke on VR about abusive
relationships and stayed silent when he was often the most opinionated outspoken member and would ALWAYS stand beside "his beautiful wife, holly"
except ross was not the one to initiate the divorce, holly did, and took the home with her, leaving him homeless
also anon you are showing how fucking new you are here cause you quote someone else at the top and reply to another's posts, yes heidi asked jared to deal with the situation and have an honest conversation with holly about how they were acting because neither of the two acknowledged it
like honestly you have holly and jared two people with a history of bad behavior and people they have alienated along their careers due to bad choices and the same pattern keeps happening all over again but this time they are bigger names with bigger audiences and you have the audacity to try to argue about it as though they are totally innocent in this
>"But I don't feel like it is"
I feel like Holly's streams were a lot like Jared's content - It was always kind of mediocre, but you could put up with it because it wasn't awful
and they had connections to the game grumps and such. Now, we all know they're fucking horrible people and have burned all of their bridges. They're just shit people with shitty content - and that's it.
>"her husband is said by Jared to have been supportive of them and even visited him in person in March? 2018 to express that"
Right, because Jared has absolutely no reason to lie about Ross being chill with it so as to feel less like an adulterous piece of shit while knowing Ross refuses to get involved or speak out publicly. /s
>" but her texts to Holly say "I demanded he reveal his feelings to you because he would have never done it otherwise"
Exactly. If you know something is going on, but everyone is tap dancing around it, you're going to get fed up real quick and at least want to get everything out in the open. Heidi saying "Talk about it!" is not code for "Please go fuck Holly Conrad at any and all opportunity!">>925913
If Ross was TRULY supportive of Jared & Holly, he wouldn't have dragged his feet in terms of his divorce (having Holly file all the paperwork, not going to court, waiting things out until the deadlines hit rather than doing it to get it out of the way, etc.)
>>925926>If you know something is going on, but everyone is tap dancing around it, you're going to get fed up real quick and at least want to get everything out in the open. Heidi saying "Talk about it!" is not code for "Please go fuck Holly Conrad at any and all opportunity!"
That is true. There was something going on, just like Heidi was dating some black dude during the same time mind you.
With Jared and Holly it was just a crush, an unspoken thing, something they wanted to do but chose not to out of respect for their marital spouses at the time.
Would they have just eventually gave into temptation anyway? Maybe but we won't know now.
But it still only escalated faster than it would have had they just been left alone because of Heidi demanding Jared to do so.
She could have said "I notice something is brewing with you and Holly, so I would prefer for you to quit DCA and stop talking to her".
Instead "I want you to go talk to Holly about your feelings, and you [[have permission to do whatever you want to]]".
Was it a case of mixed signals? Definitely, clearly Jared and Heidi suffered with communication.
>" it still only escalated faster than it would have had they just been left alone because of Heidi demanding Jared to do so."
Yep. Heidi pushed Jared dick-first into Holly - and then pulled him away - and then shoved his dick back in. Lather, rinse, repeat, I guess. It's all her fault, and not the fault of the two people who were married to others at the time - Y'know, the ones who ACTIVELY participated in the fucking of each other, against Heidi's wishes.
>"She could have said "I notice something is brewing with you and Holly, so I would prefer for you to quit DCA and stop talking to her"."
That would have gotten her labeled as a hysterical bitch. Not to mention that Heidi had already said "Hey, don't fuck Hoelly Cumrag" and Jared went and did it anyway. Why do you think he suddenly would have listened if she said "Hey, I want you to quit DCA and have no contact with Holly"?
anon it's honestly not worth debating with them. "heidi is fucking a black dude"™ has been on this board for a few weeks now and just won't fucking shut up about her fucking a black dude, about how innocent holly and jared were, and they aren't only being a baiting troll, their arguments are fucking dumb.
I merely propose we all collectively ignore this person any time they post. It's not worth our time. They aren't a confused soul that wandered in here by accident; they come here looking to nitpick; they probably even share their arguments here to some little troll cave full of other incel trolls.
How many times do we have to go through this same argument, anon? Heidi herself has already acknowledged this. She gave them consent exactly one time and posted her entire text conversation with Holly regarding this so people had more context. She revoked consent because Jared and Holly violated her boundaries which she was allowed to do at any time. Giving consent once isn’t a free pass to do whatever you want and the conditions of their poly relationship required consent and transparency, a bare fucking minimum that Jared couldn’t comply with. She needed monogamy to repair her relationship with Jared and that’s when hoelly started saying heidi was abusive
, all because she couldn’t fuck her uwu twu wuv diath. It was Jared’s responsibility to separate from Heidi if he wasn’t happy, but he made no move to do that until February and then in April Heidi discovered he was fucking miss cumrag for months behind her back anyway.
Jared and hoelly are manipulative scumbags who tried to pull a fast one on twitter before Heidi had a chance to say anything, but Heidi was able to shut them down. Even with their delusional stans trying to defend them, anyone with common sense can see this. Case closed.
Ah, yes, the classic. Jared is such an incompetent human being that he can't be held to the standard of "just do the thing that you know is the right thing to do" if he wanted to break up. How could we be so blind to his plight /s
Seriously anon, grow up. Jared is a big boy and if he really didn't want this entire mess he would've done something about it. Heidi wanted to fix the marriage and told Jared that breaking up was not ok with her, but its obvious that he saw that only as a way to maintain both her and Holly at the same time. A marriage requires both participants to be invested, but a breakup only requires the one person to end it all. Its not fucking difficult to understand.
If Jared was so worried about Heidi ruining his career by telling everyone he was a cheater and an abuser if he left, he should have left before he gave Heidi the evidence she needed to speak out against him. Before Heidi found out there was an affair she was merely suspicious, but didn’t have proof. Then Jared goes and gives it to her by sleeping with hoelly and being stupid enough to keep his old phone with nudes and explicit texts of their affair.
No, anon, that message absolutely didn't say what you think it does. There is NO message that ever said, "do whatever you want". There were messages to the effect of, "let me know what's going to happen before anything does" and "Diath and Strix wouldn't do it right away anyway".
That doesn't mean anything in the same realm as "do whatever you want" or "go have fun fucking!"
Why is this so hard to understand?
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actually what i said was
> rooting for you> You have my full permission to do anything> if you decide to stay in the guest bedroom it doesn't mean that you have to bang> don't worry about me and do what works> i am fine and will continue to be fine
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She also clearly says in that screencap "I like transparency," and her reasons for revoking her approval is first, they were NOT transparent about what transpired that night in February. Then Heidi found out Holly wanted more from her relationship with Jared than Heidi was comfortable with. A lot of successful poly relationships are predicated on the married parties always remaining each other's number one, and it was clear pretty early that Holly wanted to replace Heidi in that spot, and was willing to leave Ross to make it happen.
Can we all just agree that Jared,Holly and Heidi are all a bunch of hipster nutcases.
These kids and their "open relationships".
NTAYRT but how's messy side ho sound? that make you feel better anon?
Holly's a narc side ho to a wormdick pedo, she's constantly tried to paint Heidi as a crazy bitch and took Jared's side after all the nasty shit with the porn blogs and maybe oopsie cp and sleeping with random women at cons. Went on to accuse Heidi of doing all this for attention then made a whole merch set about "bOuNdaRiEs lol", basically spitting in Heidi's face for bringing it all out to public. Tried to make Etica's suicide about herself and how cancel culture can kill or whatever. She's such a piece of shit, idk why you're so pressed about her being called a whore
Excuse me while I play the world's smallest violin for ProPedo - who tanked his own career by refusing to keep his dick in his pants.>>926056
Poly relationships aren't necessarily "hipster nutcases". It just so happens that when you combined poly with Jared "I'm a fucking tool" Knabeanbag and Hoelly "UWU not like other girls" Cumrag, it created a perfect storm.
You mean a baseless assumption based on fan speculation that makes no sense whatsoever? Heidi didn't know anything about what was going on with Ross or what was happening in his marriage; she had no communication with him, and the only texts exchanged between Heidi and Holly indicate that Ross had no idea what was going on.
It's incredible how you brainlets will come up with these wild ideas or listen to some associate of Holly's who was caught blatantly lying and run with it, rather than make any effort to register the actual evidence right in front of your face. What's that? Ross is in a dark place and getting drunk all the time right around the time his marriage falls apart? He still makes loving posts gushing about Holly even after it was revealed Holly was having an emotional affair with Jared? I'm sure it's nothing, because Jared said Ross visited him and Jared would never lie.
the two couples lived together for about a month after their house got flooded and before they moved to Washington. I'm certain that this isn't something they would keep secret among friends they are comfortable with (and they were at that time).
The only reason we haven't seen any evidence directly from Ross (as in texts to Jared or Holly or Heidi) is because all three of them honored his desire to be left out. If Heidi knew that Ross didn't know of the affair or Holly lied to him, why wouldn't she say it instead of "I was under the impression Ross knew about it and he didn't like me" ? Or not say anything for that matter.
> the two couples lived together for about a month after their house got flooded and before they moved to Washington. I'm certain that this isn't something they would keep secret among friends they are comfortable with (and they were at that time).
"You're right, I WILL ignore the evidence that Ross still loved his wife while she was cheating on him and was visibly torn up about their breakup so that I can bring up an event from years ago and assume that Holly and Ross were in an open relationship then based on nothing but my own imagination"
> The only reason we haven't seen any evidence directly from Ross (as in texts to Jared or Holly or Heidi) is because all three of them honored his desire to be left out.
lol literally none of them respected Ross's desire to be left out but okay
> If Heidi knew that Ross didn't know of the affair or Holly lied to him, why wouldn't she say it instead of "I was under the impression Ross knew about it and he didn't like me" ?
Because Heidi DIDN'T know Ross knew about the affair; anon in addition to your failure to process basic information, can you also not read?
The exchange of texts between Heidi and Holly show that Holly hadn't told Ross about her feelings for Jared or about their meetup, but that she needed to talk to him about it later. Heidi clearly made the assumption at that point that Holly did communicate with Ross about her inappropriate relationship with Jared, but we can all look back after the fact at Ross's old tweets to see that he likely had no idea, since he was being openly lovey dovey with Holly months later.
Can you please go back to PJ2 where you can spew this nonsense to your party of brainlets who will put up with, nay, celebrate your cognitive impairments
>based on nothing but my own imagination
actually there were people writing about this on reddit prior to the scandal and the texts that Heidi released between her and Holly also confirm that they had understanding about Holly having relationships with women. Since Holly was the less sexual person in that marriage, it's fair to say there was probably something similar for Ross as well.
> literally none of them respected Ross's desire to be left out but okay
Holly stopped release of texts that implicated Ross' position in the fall and also deleted tweets that were mentioning him knowing about her relationship with Jared and giving okay for it. I imagine if they were in an open relationship and such texts exist (since Dan was so excited about them) Holly can release a lot of them - especially if they defend her. Yet she didn't.
> The exchange of texts between Heidi and Holly show that Holly hadn't told Ross about her feelings for Jared or about their meetup
the texts exchanged were literally hours after the meeting in the woods happened, when Holly was traveling back to LA.
> we can all look back after the fact at Ross's old tweets
Yeah, cause his tweets say anything about his private relationship in his marriage? Really? Do they say he gave his wife permission to be with other girls?
Again, anon, if he had open marriage with Holly, her having relationship on the side wouldn't stop them from having relationship with each other. Or you don't get how this stuff works?
> actually there were people writing about this on reddit
> Yeah, cause his tweets say anything about his private relationship in his marriage?
anon: mocks using someone's actual words and behavior as meaningful evidence
also anon: thinks redditors are good source of information
> texts that Heidi released between her and Holly also confirm that they had understanding about Holly having relationships with women. Since Holly was the less sexual person in that marriage, it's fair to say there was probably something similar for Ross as well.
Yeah, because it makes sense for Ross to be able to date women, but for men not to be on the table for Holly. It's a massive leap to go from "Ross and I have talked about open relationships before and he's fine if I date women" to "Ross is okay if I sleep with women because we have an open marriage and he has a girlfriend."
> Holly stopped release of texts that implicated Ross' position in the fall and also deleted tweets that were mentioning him knowing about her relationship with Jared and giving okay for it. I imagine if they were in an open relationship and such texts exist (since Dan was so excited about them) Holly can release a lot of them - especially if they defend her. Yet she didn't.
So your position is "They had an open relationship and that's why Holly didn't release texts"? There's no other possible scenario here? lol
> the texts exchanged were literally hours after the meeting in the woods happened, when Holly was traveling back to LA.
They were engaging in an inappropriate relationship the whole time, smooth brain, which is how it finally came to a head and that conversation happened to begin with.
> Again, anon, if he had open marriage with Holly, her having relationship on the side wouldn't stop them from having relationship with each other. Or you don't get how this stuff works?
"Relationship on the side" AKA emotional cheating, if Jared was just a side piece, then why did Ross and Holly get divorced? Because Holly was having an affair, you nitwit
Knowing =/= Being okay with it.
The truth is likely in the middle, Ross being aware of the situation but uncomfortable with it.
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>>926272>the texts that Heidi released between her and Holly also confirm that they had understanding about Holly having relationships with women
If by understanding you mean Holly and Ross talked about it hypothetically years ago and he said maybe and then it was never spoken of again? Those are Holly's own words from the texts between her and Heidi after her February walk with Jared. You can read the whole thing at https://imgur.com/gallery/61PBric
Yep. They took full
advantage of Ross' silence by speaking for
him as well.
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>"The kicker is that Keemstar initially referred to Holly as “side ho” (iirc) and Holly was apparently okay enough with that to make an art piece about it while in the mental hospital, but when people on twitter started calling her a ‘mistress’, she spazzed out and started insisting that everyone was being misogynistic."
I love when people point out shit like this. Call her a "Side-Ho" - she jokes about it to cope, but call her a "Mistress"? - gasp! MISOGYNY!!! -spams link to think piece about how such words literally murder women everyday or some shit-
Thing is these people in the gaming community, they exist to entertain.
Ross is an animator, not a lifestyle guru.
Probably shouldn't necessarily view them as role models, for career related things sure, but personal life, not neccesarily.
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I must admit, if Heidi is "The one true abuser" then she's doing a damn good job convincing people otherwise.
Knowing Holly & Jared's past behavior, it's clear they were guilty of what they did, so they had to drag Heidi down in order to feel better about it.
>"why would she feel the need to separate from him?"
Because Hoelly made clear that she wanted Jared - no one else, and she didn't want him to have anyone besides her either (at least his wife that was asking him to respect her boundaries and not fuck his mistress).>>927033
Exactly. Holly can preach her "Be kind uwu!!!" schtick all she wants, but when she threw her support behind a dude who made a career out of trashing people for shits and giggles, it's game over.
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Holly, what the fuck, girl. Amber Heard is obviously gaslighting Johnny Depp in those phone calls. She tells him things like "you're such a baby" and "I wasn't punching you, I was hitting you" to deflect from her lying. She has a history of physical abuse. There are countless witnesses to prove she was lying. She's purposely vague and won't answer questions with a straight answer.
Heidi is the opposite of that. She posts all of their logs and is extremely detailed in her responses. She's respectful and gives Jared the benefit of the doubt. Johnny Depp lashed out at Amber once because he was provoked, and we can still see he's obviously not the abusive one in the relationship. Same with Heidi.
Holly, you're in the fog. Hard. And someday you're going to look back on this time in your life and cringe at the things you've said and done. I just hope you won't stay long enough to someday become just like Heidi. But maybe you need to do that to realize what abuse feels like.
not to mention incredibly fucking rude. like wow, I was shocked when I saw her like that tweet. Imagine publicly endorsing a tweet comparing heidi to fucking amber heard, a physical and emotional abuser.
it's the "unfixable" thing all over again. But sure Holly, "be kind"
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Jesus Christ, now ProDick liked it too.
These people honestly can't move the fuck on, can they??
Keep diggin' that hole, you human dumpster fires.
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As well as Erika Ishii. Who was involved with DCA and was at the first on-stage game. https://youtu.be/00GM1ufqniUhttps://youtu.be/DZnG4UdFTkc
I mean Ross doesn't seem like the type to hold grudges, plus it's not like she did anything wrong to him even if she was friends with someone who did.
Or maybe it's his way of stealing Holly's friends, which is also great.
>Johnny Depp lashed out at Amber once because he was provoked, and we can still see he's obviously not the abusive one in the relationship. Same with Heidi.
The moment Heidi spoke up about her doubts was the moment Holly decided to make her the villain.
She even looks like her, lmao>>927337>Holly, you can do so much better
Yeah, she already was doing better, but he never made her feel like being in love, apparently! Don't waste your feelings, anon, Holly is a manipulator and a scammer, and having traumas don't excuse her behaviour. I used to like her, and I was mildly upset too when she started to throw everyone involved except ProDick under a bus.
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Someone asked her about that whole charity thing with the shirt
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tsk tsk tsk…
This oh-so-persecuted couple wants to claw their way back into relevance again it seems…
Also, Heidi could've been thinking about anyone when she liked that tweet, might not even be Jared and/or Holly (it probably is, but you never know).
…But of course, like clockwork, hit dogs will holler.
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Also "Be Kind everyone!"
>"I said I would do something out of fear"
That's the same shit she pulled with Heidi, "I called you abusive
because I was scared from you yelling at me over the phone". The scared little girl schtick isn't going to work for you forever, Hoelly - Grow up.
>"I was trying to make strangers on the internet with misinformation unhappy"
I know this was a typo, but yeah, well done on the "making us all unhappy" bit, Holly. You finally got part of it right.
>"If that makes me evil"
Nah, fam. You defending your fuckboi for soliciting nudes from his fanbase makes you evil. You calling Heidi an abuser, admitting in private that you were wrong and then continuing to call her that publicly, is evil.
>"They could be stopping climate change"
So could you - instead of liking tweets about the woman you convinced your boyfriend to cheat on, you could be reducing your carbon footprint and doing the world as a whole a fucking favor and log off of the internet. Also, someone with 50-60+ pets has no room to talk about 'stopping climate change'.
Talk about lip service and virtue signaling….
There's a character who is a robot who imho is the real dig at holly.
She's got a face perfect 'sweet' face but behind that is a monstrous maw.
I think the demon girl looking like Holly is an unfortunate side effect of Ross kinda having one main hairstyle he likes to draw
>"You'd know I value kindness"
You called Heidi an abuser multiple times.
You called Heidi 'unfixable'
>"Not bullying, acting superior, and trying to shame someone into doing things"
Nah, you just greatly prefer running around behind people's backs, calling them abusive
for expressing limits, mocking their 'boundaries' with your ugly t-shirts, and pulling the "uwu not like other girls" card.
>"Liking a tweet on my twitter account isn't bullying someone"
No, but publicly calling them an abuser with no evidence beyond "They yelled at me for fucking their husband!" is.
>"Stop stalking people's likes"
Stop trolling forums that you KNOW are against you. That 'unhealthy habits' thing goes both ways.>>927412
>"She should go kill herself"
So much for being kind.
If she wants this shit to end already, then she should just publicly admit where she jumped the shark when it came to Heidi.
Also, it's funny how Heidi doesn't even need to mention their names & they're already
wrestling to regain control of the narrative.
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Holy shit, Holly just privated the biggest chunk of her videos. Her videos page is now ridiculously barebone and you can just see from her playlists just how much has become unaccessible.
I wonder if it's because it dawned on her just how much of her behavior there, before she descended into uwubirbmombekind, reflect on her true colors…
I guess Commander Holly got demoted to Private Holly.
Those evil Game Grumps people laughed at her when she cried at a sushi restaurant!! Our little birdatarian (not vegan btw) couldn't stand giving them a platform.
More proof that their super amicable divorce was just a lie.
File: 1580684749524.png (18.04 KB, 576x138, comparison.png)
Good to know at least some people aren't
Unfortunately, this persons's replies will fill up with shit like "She THREATENED to RUIN HIM/COMMIT SUICIDE/etc!!!"
As if no one
done that kind of shit during a breakup before (it's not
healthy, but the WKs act as if Heidi is the first
woman to ever
act the way she did when trying to save a marriage that, unbeknownst to her, was on the verge of death.)>>927442>>927445
lmao, a sure sign of 'innocence' right there! /s
Guess she found out people were still watching the video of her stealing that journal.
>>927454>she threatened to commit suicide
I love that they come back to this when SHE DIDN'T. Her fucking 1-800 therapist told Jared she might threaten to do it.
Secondhand and Heidi didn't even want her say it
She also threatened to kill herself all the time with Ross and told Jared she was abusive
to Ross. Ross even confirmed it in a VR chat video. She was such a nightmare Arin and Suzy had to step in to help her get help.
Fuck, I know there was at least 2 or videos with Heidi.
The Ren Fairre one.
And another with her, Ross, Heidi and Jared at PAXSouth '16.
I was gonna archive but it seemed like she had no interest in deleting them
It's pretty telling that the entire Game Grumps crew cut ties with Holly – the same people she supposedly valued for keeping her accountable so she wouldn't "lose everything" (her words). Now she's deleted all evidence of those friendships that supposedly meant so much to her.
She must be Big Mad that they weren't agreeing with and enabling her behavior. Probably soothing her bruised ego by reassuring herself that they're boolies for not supporting her affair partner Jared.
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A bit OT, but please enjoy the beauty of this rando ripping into Mr. Matt Lawson.
Normally, I'm against ad-hoc attacks, but some of these WKs have been absolutely vile about this scandal. Spamming clown-emojis doesn't come anywhere even remotely close to their behavior.
>"Spamming clown-emojis doesn't come anywhere even remotely close to their behavior"
Exactly this, Anon. Clown emojis are relatively harmless little pictures - Holly stans are straight up telling Heidi to kill herself, calling her a whore and slut, sending all sorts of threats.
So yeah, woe is hoelly with her emojis - Heidi's a bit busy trying to not wind up getting murdered by a rabid jared stan.
Should've been banned though.
Maybe if he keeps running his mouth he'll get his main suspended too. The Striath keyboard-warriors have forced the narrative long enough.
Again, so much for that "Be Kind" brigade!
Jared+Holly stans really need to take a good hard look at themselves& what kind of message they're spreading.
Lol for private holly
But tbh i think most those videos were collaborations with ross or heidi (im p sure about undertale). Maybe shes just trying not to be associated with him anymore
She definitely collaborated with Ross for Undertale. He mentioned her killing Tauriel in his playthrough with Barry. She also privated her Stardew videos with Ross.
Riven with Kati, is still there though.
definitely; with the exception of having Ross' name in titles, there is no show of him anywhere now. Way back in the past she used to have a tutorial on how to apply fake tattoos for cosplay and she used Ross in the video to stick them onto. She's even put that to private.
The only people in her videos now are Kati, Jared, JonTron, Chad from her few life is strange vids, and any other random person from her old old videos.
You can't delete the past, Holly. We'll always remember you as Ross' ex wife.
Strange the video with JonTron still up since she probably hasn't spoken with him or even had a reason to in years.
Must be an enemy of my enemy is a friend sort of thing.
Since Jon hates the Grumps now, and Holly does too
I guess yes: Kati sucked up to Holly after the theater show drama so that explains that bit, but Jon's case is either that it's a harmless video/he has no connection to all that drama so she left it up, or enemy of my enemy thing.
So there goes the taco bell vlog too and the Ireland/Australia trips, I wonder if she removed pics off instagram too? or was it just youtube
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The irony of this is that Holly's supporters have been shouting about how Heidi lied because she left out some information in her story the first time through. But now it's okay to not owe anyone a streamlined story, I guess.
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a few ridiculous katie updates incoming because i just can't stop myself from lurking her tweets, she's so unhinged its like a train wreck
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these ones are particularly interesting to me because its obviously directed towards us
I can only assume the "H"'s she's referring to are Holly and Heidi
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and 2/2. I'd hardly say Heidi was "fighting over" wormdick, but katie is legitimately crazy anyway so talking sense to her is impossible so whatever
The use of the phrase 'milk' implies that she ALSO stalks lolcow (hi fam, how are ya?) - The desperation some of these cows have for attention is honestly pathetic.>>927697
Kati, them not like an comment from someone who's a few cards short of a deck doesn't mean shit.
>"Cling to the cop-out"
I know she has to be talking about Holly since the only time Heidi mentioned mental health was briefly and never as an "I'm sorry, I'm mentally ill" bit.
Yall brace yourselfs for War of the Crazies 2k20
Somebody hasn't been watching Heidi's live streams.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZJ35vKzHCQ&feature=youtu.be
She's been talking about mental health a lot lately
You're right - I have a life that doesn't revolve around watching someone's live streams in the event that they MIGHT slip up and say something of interest.
Again, there's a difference between "Here's the situation with my mental health" and "LOL IM SO FUCKING UWU NOT LIKE OTHER GIRLS - YOU CAN'T YELL AT ME, I'M MENTALLY ILL!!!"
also, sage your posts, newfag
This was new information for you, in turn milk.
Learn your site rules, cow
holup, how new are you to this thread? giving yourself away much
anyway I am lol'ing at her trying to push herself into this irrelevant drama, she's SO desperate. Holly ain't gonna give you attention, hon. She didn't do it to her ex husband, she won't do it to you
Anon, milk is something that's new to EVERYONE (or at least the majority), not a link to where you can point out that Heidi the Whore ALSO talked about her mental health (on her on stream, btw - not as a defense for being an asshole like Hoelly).>>927762
Just think of Kati/Katie as the crackhead that hangs out at the gas station at 3 am. Whatever she says has about as much truth to it.
What's your point? Yes, Heidi discusses her mental health as in a "Here's where I'm at" kind of way. If that was ALL that Holly did, I don't think anyone would give a singular fuck - but it's not. She wields that shit like a weapon to manipulate people - to be more sympathetic or to act how she wants them to act.
If you can't tell the difference between the two, that sounds like a "you" problem.
Nobody around here is going to lick Heidi's taint or something, but jesus christ, anon - we're also not going to sit here and pretend like they're even on the same playing field.
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My point is this statement is incorrect. Full stop. You're the one in here interpreting meaning where there is none.
Remember that Kati is the REAL victim
thinking that she's part of #metoo because she rejected Arin and he moved on.
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not even surprised
This woman has the nerve to do mental health streams after all the harm and shameful shit she has done over the past year? I wish I could say I'm surprised but she needs a platform to shout about her illness for ass pats. Remember, it's okay to not be okay.*
(*Unless you don't support me, then you are an evil bully!!!)
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Oh shit, Creepshow is on the case!>>927871
It's normal for some people to delete stream announcements after the stream has ended, and not necessarily a sign of shame or self-awareness on her part. Unfortunately.
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Holly liked another tweet that compares Heidi and PedoDick to Amber Heard and Johnny Depp.
the funny thing is that I don't believe Jared ever personally claimed Heidi was "abusing" him; this entire narrative has been spun by Holly alone. I can't ever recall Jared actually accusing Heidi of such a thing, unless I am mistaken (so much has happened in so few months). Holly's entire schtick is that she is a savior for the broken and abused; I bet she gets some weird emotional masturbation from that thought process.>>927909
thank you anon, I do watch creep's videos sometimes but missed that one, I have nothing against creepshow. That is so disgusting, imagine saying that to get them to take down a video. Yikes.
I lost all interest in her videos after she took that Holly one down. She let Holly manipulate her by saying the video triggered
self harm? The type of videos she does probably cause a lot of distress for whoever she covers. If she doesn't have the guts to stand behind her work why bother? She even pointed out in the video what a manipulator Holly is and she allowed herself to cave to that BS? Holly was most likely lying to get her way, as usual.
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He did say enough without directly calling her an abuser already in May
anon you were replying to, thank you, I used to save/screenshot everything I could at the time but honestly it got too much. Although it's telling that all these statements come way later, when he began crafting his image. I still believe deep inside me that Holly's feeding him these words. She's like the puppetmaster with her hand up Jared's ass telling him what to say.
No I'm not removing Jared's blame in all this I just thing specifically the "abuser" angle is Holly's doing. After all had she not been a factor AT ALL in the marriage there wouldn't have been any "abuse" to speak of. Jared would just have cheated on Heidi with random women, as in his own actions wouldn't have changed, but the narrative would. It's not like Jared was abused during the marriage and Holly just came along and saw it; she actively stirred the pot between two people and blamed the woman for the damage she herself was causing.
"those close to him" and "had witnessed it many occasions" so where are those great witnesses then? why don't they step up? wait, anyone who HAS done that… is close to Holly. Hmmmmmmmmm. It's almost like being close to Holly gives you a twisted narrative. PeanutbutterGamer showed what an ass he is with half the information and retracted. Everyone else had been discussing the pedo angle, not the abuser specifically.
Like that screenshot sounds like when you're asking for homework help from your mom and they tell you what to write down and how to say it.
It is Holly's doing. She is literally the one who told Jared he was being abused and when he stood up to her and said he wasn't she backed down, apologized, and sent Heidi gifts. Holly projected her own history as an abuse victim
AND an abuser onto Heidi and Jared's relationship to get what she wanted, and since Jared is a weak sex addict he went along with it.
As we all know, people who are abused will quickly accept and admit that they are being abused, and never, ever, defend their abuser.
While that's probably not true in this case, what you're saying implies that you think this.
ForestFust specifically said he has observed Heidi being verbally abusive
to Jared in public and did not delete it afterwards, just said that he wrote it before he was informed by NB that he shouldn't comment on the situation at all (likely because of the sub drop that PBG endured). And PBG apologised for the way he addressed Heidi, but he didn't say anything about who was abusive
Also a remark for people thinking that Holly directed Jared's second statement - the timing doesn't quite fit. She was in a hospital that week and that statement sounded way too legalese worded to not have been read by a lawyer before.
Finally, both Heidi and Jared admitted their marriage was not good and had problems even before Holly came along in the polymix. You can say she was the catalyst for the divorce, but not necessarily the reason for all the abuse (either story you believe) going on.
have you been on the internet for 5 minutes, anon? there is literally the "don't google symptoms on the internet" trope
also during holly's ~retreat she was joking about keemstar calling her a side ho and was deleting tweets etc. She wasn't quarantined with a straitjacket.
Also nowhere in that statement does it sound like legalese. It sounds crafted. It sounds exactly like how he wants it to sound; that he's a scarred, embarrassed broken soul who was tied into a marriage he didn't want while trying desperately to get out, poor him
except if he took responsibility for his actions for like 5 minutes he wouldn't need to "desperately try to get out". I'm not even talking about the porn blogs or the pedo stuff. I'm talking just the love triangle.
Seriously if Jared had just not cheated, divorced Heidi when he was feeling it because he couldn't go on being dishonest, and Holly had done the same, none of this would have happened. It would hurt for Heidi yes, but at least nobody would have been in this position now. Literally months if not a year wasted because Jared couldn't put on big boy pants and get a fucking divorce before the cheating and assholery happened.
Holly was the one googling them. Not Jared. Holly knew what articles would jive with him.
Was Heidi probably at her wits end and lashed out sometimes? Probably. A woman who's been iced out of her own relationship will do that.
Was Heidi ~abusive
~ like Hoelly wanted everyone to believe? Unlikely. Hoelly probably subscribes to the idea that not being perfect is abusive
and all exes are abusive
Does this same litmus test not also apply to whether Jared was abusive
or not? It seems everyone here accepts that at face value.
why is it so alien that holly is the one who pushed the abusive
narrative to Jared? he denies it by himself, Holly "apologizes" to Heidi sending her gifts, and calling her so pretty and it makes her scared, and that she was in the wrong, but super secretly it's actually heidi everyone is scared of and she's the big bad boogieman under jared's bed
heidi was supportive of him from before his career even took off, heidi even tried polyamory to support her husband's desires and consented when she was alright with it. suddenly holly comes into the equation with a lack of respect to heidi's boundaries, but yeah let's blame heidi
y'all REALLY want to ignore that Holly could have said "no" to Jared even if she had feelings, because morals and it's not her business. Jared could have said "no" too. They both could have held off until a divorce is final to pursue their weird sexual roleplaying. Instead this happened. Please recognize this as soon as possible so we can all move on.
look at the web of things holly affected in this process: game grumps, ross, jared, heidi, fans, her image, etika, etc.
Sure maybe they fell in love, shit happens. They handled it tremendously poorly and look what happened. It's totally on those two. Heidi is not some mafioso mastermind who was secretly framing the perfect murder, she was a frustrated wife who was being blatantly lied to and cheated on. And Jared couldn't even give her a proper fucking answer; he couldn't be honest and say he fucked up and he wants to split. He just draaaaaaagged it on.
It is not uncommon for abuse victims
to be protecting their abuser at first. The first time Holly brought it up he defended Heidi. Yet months of therapy later he seemed to have changed his mind. Can't be just brainwashing, if he was so easy to brainwash by someone from another state, why wouldn't his wife of 4 years that lives in the same house as him be able to break this idea.
Heidi wasn't with him before his career took off, she met him because she saw him in the Screw Attack videos. Jared claimed Heidi proposed the polyamory and she never denied that.
Remember that at this time in 2018 he was actively collaborating with NB, GG, started going to therapy himself. Yet people saw Heidi in public berate him and yell at him and that was before Holly moved to Washington.
Jared obviously told Heidi he wants to split up because both she and her therapist knew about it. She just didn't accept it. It wasn't technically break up. He took her to a couples counceling and said that he doesn't want to work on their marriage anymore. She didn't accept that either - "He tried to break up with me at the therapist" she wrote to Sara. They had months where they weren't sleeping in the same rooms and he wasn't showing her any sort of physical or romantical tenderness or caress - because he repeatedly told her he wants to separate. But she instead took it upside down and said that he is abusing her by not showing her love? Then when she told him that, he broke again with her and she was devastated. And told him again that it won't work because he is in breach of contract and she needs reparations - and if they can't be emotional they will be financial. That's literally her words. Reparations.
I would be interested to know how you can be certain your narrative is accurate, as there's no proof either way. You think this is the accurate retelling of events but:
- We don't know who suggested poly, nor why it was brought up in the first place. We do know Heidi is bi and was excited to explore her feelings for women.
- Heidi is still accused of being abusive
, and there's not enough to say it's a completely false accusation. She is, however, proven to do things that would be abusive
given the right circumstances.
- You don't know that she was blatantly lied to beyond her telling you she was.
- You are also taking her at her word that Jared didn't try to cut it off properly. We don't know what he said, how exactly the follow up went.
You have a conclusion, but you don't have evidence.
In that case, neither do the holly/jared supporters. You also can't know what happened behind closed doors. If my interpretation is flawed, yours are all equally flawed.
I am fully ready to admit I do not "know" anything. I have seen past behavior from Holly, Jared and Heidi, combined with screenshots of texts, old videos, second hand accounts from people like Ross and Heidi's friends who also vagueposted at the time of events (conventions usually), and I can conclude based on my own observations. What I've seen is that Holly and Jared have been shitty people to others way before this even occurred. They both have a history of egotism, narcissism and lack of self awareness.
You've arrived at a stalemate. If you conclude you have "proof" that holly/jared are innocent in this, then so can I that Heidi was under a lot of emotional stress and Holly/Jared initiated and affected most of it. You simply cannot prove anything more than I can, and this can go on forever.
I'm well aware my interpretation is my own; I cannot influence this case nor do I post about it on public media. I do not tweet, harass or engage with anyone. Not even Holly. I hope you all can say the same about Heidi.
However if you come into a thread that is very obviously leaning towards being anti-Holly and anti-Jared and try to argue the opposite, you WILL get debated on. So I honestly wonder why you're wasting your time here when you could all be circlejerking each other somewhere else.
You're awfully prompt to condemn people for things you don't know to be true.
What I saw led me to believe Heidi can't be trusted. As a result I wrote her off, and don't make a point to talk about how she's a shitty person for x y z on an anonymous board.
I just point out on those boards when someone is making a statement of fact that isn't factually backed.
You do that a lot here.
Your board's leaning doesn't matter when it says something that isn't actually backed up.
SURE you don't. Yep. You are so kind and brave to be polite and dispute "unchecked" facts on behalf of Holly and Heidi. You gain nothing but the satisfaction when you go to bed that you are fighting for justice and the reputation of two shitty people, right? Better go polish up that white knight armor before it rusts from all the saliva you dribble when you lick their ass all day on anonymous boards.
go away you budget phoenix wright, nobody cares.
Given you're here defending Heidi's actions and condemning Holly's and I'm here correcting misinformation, I'm pretty sure it's evident which of us is the actual white knight.
I haven't attacked or defended either, I've just specified what is and is not known to be true.
Sorry, are we supposed to believe the two-faced liar who:
1. Preyed on fans and not only didn't show any meaningful remorse for it, actually posed in shirts that made light of his scandal in which he received child porn
2. Carried on in an emotional affair with his wife and mistress at the same time, while telling both women that nothing was going on with the other one
3. Attempted to vindicate himself to his audience by claiming that he tried to leave Heidi in October 2018, even though the emotional affair with Holly started 8 months earlier…
is likely to be the victim
of abuse? I guess in backwards world where good is bad and black is white, then sure.
I'll give you 1 if that's how you interpret it, I disagree, but:
2. Another unsubstantiated claim.
3. Another conclusion based off of said unsubstantiated claim. Dude stopped wearing his ring in October, how do you explain that?
You keep saying shit that you don't know is true.
Dude, you have been non-stop debating everything that anyone says against Hoelly and ProDick for two days now. We get it - Holly = good, Heidi = evil
Anon comes here, claiming to be 'just stating facts'.
Says that the positions here are unsubstantiated beliefs.
Goes on to use the fact that Jared wasn't wearing his wedding ring in one video as 'proof' that he cut things off with Heidi before he started things with Holly, and that he was probably abused by Heidi.
If that isn't a giant logical leap based on the tiniest factual evidence, I don't know what is.
At least the views here are based on both sides' logs and months and months of interactions on social media.
Only you see things so black and white.>>928159
Oh boy are you wrong with the "one video" thing. There's one video from the October-May period in which he WAS wearing his ring. Good try though.
Here's another interpretation of that fact.
Jared stopped wearing his wedding ring in October. Holly was depressed and asking him to leave his relationship with Heidi, but he stayed for several more months. Heidi was depressed, but trying to work on their relationship and stayed for several more months.
Holly thought Heidi was the cause of their relationship problems. Heidi thought Holly was the cause of their relationship problems.
Based on these facts, we can posit that Jared was telling two separate stories – taking his wedding ring off when with Holly and telling her that Heidi was abusive
and that things were 'definitely over'… and then going home and telling Heidi a different story and pretending to work on the marriage.
This is what cheaters do. They triangulate and turn people against one another.
This does not answer why he would take his ring off when streaming and shooting footage for videos which his "loving wife just trying to work things out" would be checking out every once in a while.
You don't take your ring off where people who know your wife can see if you're cheating.
Exactly: who knows what he told her? He could have told her "I'm taking off my ring, I want a divorce".
You just happen to be putting all your stock in one answer to this unanswered question.
Don't represent your opinion as fact then.
I don't, I always hedge when I don't know something. It's not difficult.
are we seriously discussing the mechanics of debate? of course it necessitates. Making a counterclaim means you have an alternative truth to proposition with your proof of truth, which contradicts the other claim, hence counterclaim.
You try to slick in "counterclaims" all over this damn thread and when we call you out you're like "but where did I say that? I'm not saying anything!" and back out with your tail between your legs.
At least we provide claims again and again to back up our own claims but when you get pressured you say uwu I don't believe it, I'm just saying "w-w-w-what if!!!"
And Heidi wasn't? Ya'll stretch more than Mr. Armstrong.
One picture, that you don't know when it was taken, is proof that he wore his ring to try and convince his wife he was still trying, specifically because he wanted to cheat more, rather than avoid her wrath. Compared to hours of publicly posted video.
That makes no sense. Holly knew he was married to the woman, he didn't need to take off the ring to convince her he wanted to leave.>>928173
I hope to accomplish pointing out that saying "X did Y" is not a statement of opinion. It's a statement of fact. And when counter evidence is provided saying "that's wrong" doesn't help to prove you were speaking about your opinion.>>928172
So, I guess debating a point you disagree with, a very common practice to help develop debate skills, is something that never happens.
Perhaps if in stead of all of you ignoring what is being said, you could actually contextualize how the contrary evidence isn't actually
contrary in a reasonable way that doesn't 100% depend upon assumption of an individual's motives.
But that's impossible because you don't do anything else in this thread because the milk is dry and you're all just screeching about someone you dislike.
So "X did Y" are statements of fact, huh?
Holly did scam a cancer patient out of thousands of dollars by backing out of a commission and never apologized or showed remorse for her actions.
Holly did try to hijack Etika's suicide to cry about how mean people were being to her for being involved with a married friend, and how having a good support system keeps her from contemplating the same out. She also did not apologize for this stunt, merely blames it on being mentally ill.
Holly does ask people to be kind, but she also does like tweets that are openly harmful to people she did call broken and unfixable.
Jared did run seven porn blogs and he did abuse his power as a celebrity to prey on his fanbase. He did not apologize for these actions. He did create a video that spent 40 minutes painting him as the victim
We may never know how the whole adulterous situation shook down, but this actions are things that these two individuals have done and are not apologetic about.
I guess I still don't get what you hope to achieve. All of the facts are already out there. If you're just looking for a different opinion to your own, google is your friend.
If you're looking to change minds, you're probably not going to do that here.
You can't prove one side or the other definitively because that proof just doesn't exist. So, for now, everyone is going to have to come to their own conclusions based on the facts provided. And everyone here has already done that.
Your completely facts-based debate finding the objective 'truth' isn't going to happen. Sorry. The only people who will ever get close to that are the people who were involved.
If you're having a hard time with the idea that things here are opinions, just know that they are. That's all that needs to be said.
>>928182 >Holly did scam a cancer patient out of thousands of dollars by backing out of a commission and never apologized or showed remorse for her actions.
Actually she apologized multiple times to other people that keep bringing this up and explained that she apologized at the time too and the friend who had accepted the commission in first place had returned the money when they realized they couldn't finish it. But that isn't milky enough.
> Holly did try to hijack Etika's suicide to cry about how mean people were being to her for being involved with a married friend, and how having a good support system keeps her from contemplating the same out. She also did not apologize for this stunt, merely blames it on being mentally ill.
She tried to raise awareness on the cancel culture and internet harassment and when people told her to stop being self-deprecating and look for self-harm she explained that she can't because this is her mental health illness.
> Holly does ask people to be kind, but she also does like tweets that are openly harmful to people she did call broken and unfixable.
One doesn't have to be a saint to try and inspire people to be better than what they are.
> Jared did run seven porn blogs and he did abuse his power as a celebrity to prey on his fanbase. He did not apologize for these actions. He did create a video that spent 40 minutes painting him as the victim of everything.
He specifically apologized for the power inbalance and recognized that having the blogs was unhealthy and he had found help after.
Given you seem to ignore/have not seen certain aspects of the "well known facts" my only goal was to provide the things you clearly did not know. Someone here said it was only one video. That was wrong. Someone here said Jared never accused Heidi of being abusive
, that was wrong.
Maybe if you weren't so insular you'd understand that simply providing information is not a refutation of anything, nor does it have a goal beyond "oh, you're missing information, here it is"
You can draw whatever conclusions you want, but don't try to excuse making falsifiable claims.
1. What is your point of contention? (1) That he preyed on fans? He himself even admitted that he misused his position of power. (2) That he received child porn? That Chai was underage at the time is not debated. (3) That he made light of it? He posed in a shirt that said "Cancelled." How else do you interpret that?
> 2. Another unsubstantiated claim.
It's not unsubstantiated; both Holly's and Heidi's conversations show that Jared was saying one thing to Heidi and another thing to Holly.
> 3. Another conclusion based off of said unsubstantiated claim. Dude stopped wearing his ring in October, how do you explain that?
October 2017? Because the argument isn't that he lied about wanting to leave in October 2018; the issue is that he said he decided to leave then, but texts show that he was having an inappropriate relationship with Holly as far back as February 2018, which is when all this shit started.
> You keep saying shit that you don't know is true.
More like you don't give a shit whether it's true or not; your moral position is to defend a dude who solicits nudes from a fanbase made up of over 10,000 kids without ever bothering to confirm their ages. Clap.
There's proof he had an inappropriate relationship after February, but before October? Oh that's new milk. I thought either everything lacked any date identifiers.
YOU don't give a shit if it's true or not since you're so resistant to any new information that goes against your narrative.