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A containment thread for all the salty artfags of lotsoflovecow.farm!
- Ask about art supplies, but not too often as it will make the digital artists reeeee
- Discuss grievances about the art tuber community, but don’t be fooled by any that come to ask for our opinion; they will throw a shit fit because they work oh so hard and we’re oh so mean
so our opinions don’t bother them
- Yes, we’re all sick of Arteza and SkillShare.https://anony.link/https://hubpages.com/art/how-to-draw-learnhttps://anony.link/https://sites.google.com/site/ourwici/https://anony.link/https://www.alexhays.com/loomis/
The fastest way to improve:
1. Perspective Made Easy by Ernest R. Norling
2. How to Draw by Scott Robertson
3. Framed Ink by Marcos Mateu-Mestre
4. Figure Drawing by Andrew Loomis
5. The Atlas of Human Anatomy and Surgery JM Bougery
6. Drawing the Head and Hands by Andrew Loomis
7. Figure Drawing by Michael Hampton
8. Force by Michael Mattesi
9. How to Render by Scott Robertson
10. Color and Light by James Gurney
11. The Skillful Huntsman by Scott Robertson/Mike Yamada/Khang Le/Felix Yoon
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It's like she so desperately wants to be an e-thot. She seems like the type to act like she's above it while inserting herself into her slutty oc
Calling it a sketchbook is more about relatability than it is transparency, I imagine she has a seperate sketchbook she genuinely sketches in, it’s no secret that internet artists (and often even industry professionals) have a ‘sketchbook’ full of finished illustrations for show
I’m also mutuals with this artist and she’s quite chill and down to earth, her audience is primarily made up of teenagers so I imagine there was a push for her to share whatever knowledge she has. Why are anons ITT so anal about who shares what kind of information in regards to art, those who are serious about studying fundamentals will look for books and courses, beginners and youth are who will look for videos like this; >inb4 wahhh soiling beginner artists and teaching bad habits
do you guys honestly think that the people who take such videos at face value wouldn’t be turned off by industry level tutorials? It’s a stepping stone.
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Goddamn why are her prices so expensive? Her art isn’t even that great.
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People like this are kind of why I gave up on mainstream youtube art tutorials. You can't take what would take at least a year or a book to learn and squeeze into a ten minute video. The only way to do this is to cut out a lot of info or be someone who doesn't have a full idea of what they're teaching.
Also it's hilarious to see what level most of the artist who are praising tutorials are at
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$150 AUD is like $100USD thats pretty typical for a full body artwork.
Imagine feeling entitled to someone's work that you'd shame them for charging barely living wage. At least her art is actually dynamic and interesting with lots and lots of detail and good colors.
>>505842>am I wrong in thinking it IS a thing??? maybe I’m just not understanding.
The type of person who makes a 'you stole my style' post is what caused the bad rep. A big artist with an unique style would rather keep professionalism and not stir up drama while smaller young artists who have a habit of having an inbred style will accuse others 24/7. It exist, but the over whelming cases of it are just art cow's making up something to be mad at.
The sperging is just art twitters current scapegoat. The first step to being an annoying artist to find the 2 minutes of hate thing.
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Not sure if anyone has covered this, but JDL ended up disabling comments on that Zatanna speedpaint.
She doesn't even have a collarbone. Also, where dafuq are her "ears" connected?? Is it supposed to be a part of her hair or smth??>>505809
Anon. Pls just stop. Anyone can charge whatever the hell they want. If they think that they are worth the value that they are charging, let them be. There are people out there who are willing to pay for their art, so it doesn't matter if you find it "expensive" or not when you're not even gonna commission them.>>505811
That guy's anatomy… yikes. The structure's perspective is almost at a bird's eye-view, and yet his body is just drawn straight-on? And yeah. Practice. Whoever that artist is, they need practice.>>505842
People who still believe in this shit are just insecure. They want to stop that person from "copying" them because sooner or later that person would improve using their style, and people (i.e., their fans) would just forget about them. Huhu.
There is some Russian in her about section;
А что подумал по этому поводу Кролик, никто так и не узнал, потому что Кролик был очень воспитанный.
This translates in Google to;
And no one knew what Rabbit thought about this, because Rabbit was very well-mannered.
…I'm sorry, this is wayyy to dramatic for me to believe this is real. Gonna need more proof. Especially since she posts saying "Support hasn't replied yet, I sent a ticket ten minutes ago." Yeah, this shit takes time, Holly.
Even when they have access to it, most teenagers aren't interested in learning proper techniques on their own. Most teenagers want to draw whatever media they're interested in, be it video games, anime, cartoons, etc. Obviously some teenagers gravitate away from that stuff and learn proper drawing eventually (good young artists have to come from somewhere after all,) but it's kind of rare. It's why most people who enjoyed art as teenagers were unable to make careers out of it as adults. You sort of have to enjoy the act of drawing/painting so much that you're willing to draw things you don't care about, or even things you hate.
That's why kids who go to art-specific high schools are at sort of an advantage– adults are literally forcing them to learn shit the right way the first time when they're young, before they acquire a bunch of bad habits from drawing animu and shit. I say "sort of" because really all the teachers are doing is introducing
the kids to proper techniques. The onus is on the students to continue perusing that on their freetime/after high school.
Also, art tutorials on Youtube generally aren't the best way to learn, because so many of them contain misinformation and a beginner isn't going to know which ones are worth watching. It's not a coincidence that the best Youtube art tutorials (like pic related) are by people who have already published books on the subject. Honestly, just read books
! Ebooks are usually pretty cheap these days.
Kids who want to learn will
learn, and are more likely to make a career out of art. Kids who don't won't, and that's their problem.
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Even a good pose couldn’t save this.
Not all art books are created equal and a kid/teenager might not have the patience to work through something super dense.
Those how to draw manga books aren’t better than YouTube tutorials.
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>>506029>how to draw manga books
We're talking about actual
drawing books you clown. Like pic related.
If a kid can read To Kill a Mockingbird for English class, they can get through a fucking drawing book that's mostly pictures.
Yeah, a fourteen/fifteen year old beginner is totally going to pick up that instead of something that looks like more fun. >>506034
For class. Not all teenagers are willing to read unless forced to, and that’s one of the many reasons art school has a high drop out rate. Y’all never tutored before.
If they don’t have the patience to read a book then they certainly don’t have the patience to practice fundamentals.
On another note, who fucking cares if kids and teens aren’t actively working towards getting better? They’re children, they should be drawing/painting/what have you for enjoyments sake, not to explicitly improve and possibly profit off of it in the future; why not create just to enjoy the process?
It should be first and foremost about expressing oneself, with technical skill coming second, ESPECIALLY if you’re a child or hobbyist
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>>506047> don't count as artists because they didn't earn it through hard work
Stay pressed, ESLchan
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Nah, just someone who doesn’t get assblasted over others finding success and enjoyment in art even if they didn’t ‘work hard’
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Tbf though, a youtuber can be more approachable to an aspiring artist than an entire art book or a professional artist due to the skill gap they see. I've also noticed that someone who's mediocre at art (and by that I mean: Somewhat decent but not a pro) can at times relate to the troubles of beginners more than someone who's already a master at their graft. I mean if I think back at when I started drawing, I can barely remember all the things I struggled with but if I think back to just last year, I can easily remember how I overcame my biggest obstacles. Sometimes people need that kind of person more than super experienced artist, just like how at art school those who end up pushing you the most are probably other passionate student rather than just the teachers. People need that safe stepping stone from being a beginner to learning from masters and a lot of youtubers fit nicely into that gap.
Sure a lot of times people end up teaching you some absolute garbage cough
but that doesn't mean a youtuber can never offer valuable advice that can push the person forward and maybe eventually want to make them pick up that art book.
I think you guys are pretty far removed from any art industries which is where all the confusion is coming from. This book is for comic book illustration. Illustrators make work for already existing things, like books (sara pichelli).
Studio artists do concept art, paintings, portraits, installations, and are usually making money from galleries, not commissions (marco mazzoni).
ITT the only types of artists discussed are cartoonists, drawers whose only subject is unrealistic imagination people/animals on a freelance basis for commission. They usually do not charge over $100 USD due to a highly saturated market of lots of extremely similar styles. They are usually untrained and haven't entered a field yet because of the lack of a degree so the few who are skilled stand out.
Actually, Burne Hogarth books are for figure drawing in general, not just comic books. You're not exempt from learning anatomy just because your "art" consists of trash you glued together and stuck in a gallery. If you think cape shit is the only type o9f art figure drawing is necessary for, you need to have your head examined.
Even abstract expressionists had to learn about anatomy when they were earning their degrees.
>>506127>This thread is just to laugh at crappy art js
You're thinking of the shitty art thread in /m/. This is just general artist salt. It's catch all for whatever negative opinion anons might have about artists, styles, industries, etc. "Salt" is literally in the thread name– why are you complaining about the negativity?
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Looks like the artist who was accused (Ryein) of “copying an art style” posted a response: https://twitter.com/notryein/status/1220018826869268481?s=21
Someone translated the artist’s (who accused Ryein of theft) twitter posts in the twitter thread too
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she retweeted this
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This girl has 165K followers on instagram and I'm pretty sure that a majority of them are fake. She only draws conventionally attractive girls but their faces are all super fucked like this one. I have no idea how old she is but fuck these were mistakes I was making when I was 11.
Oh shit, that's terrible>>506254
I think her real name is catherine or something like that, people have mentioned it in comments. Rin probably comes from her weeb phase
Yeah totally because of Japan
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CNeko-Chan on deviantart is fucking weird. She herself is not explicitly super cowish afaik, but her characters definitely are. Pic related is 1 character of her 2 character persona/mascot (Emo Neko is the name of the other). She's also constantly making weird self-insert drawings and comics. Somehow, she's managed to gain 14k followers, which isn't bad for DA nowadays. I don't understand how someone in their 20's is making crap like this
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Her sperging about someone calling the ref a mary sue
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I was going to compile the halfdozen persona x character images she has, but this is way better. apparently "Kitten" hates Alastor, so she turned him into… this.
Who cares. The art isn't even that bad and everyone has had or has cringey ocs.
I thought this thread was for people like yudori, but damn the bar is low lol.
you sound extremely fucking autistic.
the point is that it's super common among weebs to fucking nickname themselves things that sound japanese. we're allowed to discuss it, this isn't a milk thread, it's on /ot/.
She's unsubstantial like her art, and I don't get along with her "I'm so innocent" personality too.
I guess most of her followers are of the same type: urban middleclass veganistas / hipsters.
Dude no reason to be so aggro
of course nearly every type of artist does have to eventually learn how to draw people. but when an artist trains in a figure course in a classroom setting, we learn from nude models who the school pays to sit on a cold pedestal for 5 hours, not from comic book artists doing weird running action poses. those books are made for a really specific type of outsider artist who cant afford any real life courses and needs to draw moving bodies. >>506554
Theyre probably just really embarrassed for having done something similar lmao. I was "mimi-chan" (amelia) in 4th grade.>>506667
I don't think theres anything so bad with most of her work. its cute, she keeps the style really tight and consistent, and she posts new decent work every day so of course she has a lot of fans.
right off the bat the video's format annoys me, so many floating jpegs.
Tbh her art isnt terrible, sure heavily stylized and lacking character but it has appeal. She would be way more tolerable if she put music over these things instead of her voice cause the commentary is..bad.
Her style isnt flexible enough for her to say she tries to make the character look older, without the commentary we would barley know where her concept messed up.
Why post anons every damn lavender video the hot minute she releases them? It's always the same shit art with the same responses about the shittyness.
Lavender, is that you?
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I was thinking abt investing on a set of copic markers but i dont know if i should buy an available set of markers or buy individual ones that i would actually use…Because where i live copic markers sometimes dont really have everything in stock and the sets tend to be an optimal choice price wise. Can u guys give me some advice on this situation? Thank u in advance <3
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She must be racking in a lot of money from her berets to be buying a 4th machine, but i guess she needs it if her back-orders take up to 12 weeks to be shipped
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Honestly tho this au version of alastor is just a rip off of reverse bill cipher
Why is no one acknowledging this??
You do realize that the point of drawing books isn't to literally copy the drawings in it, right? They teach you about technique. Obviously it's not a replacement for actual life drawing, and there are many approaches you can take to life drawing. I literally never even suggested
that it was a replacement for life drawing. I was saying that it was better than a Youtube video.
Also, someone being a comic book artist doesn't automatically mean they don't draw from life. Hal Foster drew from life every day from over a decade. Additionally, not all comics are cape shit and action. Most
comics aren't cape shit. You just hear about cape the most because it's what gets the most media exposure.
Maybe don't start with such a big set in case you end up not liking them, copic offers smaller ones too.
Or as >>506871
suggested try some other cheaper brands.
Waffles hasn't been come up for a while, and Baylee has her own thread so she also is not that much discussed here. No other arttubers videos are regularly posted like lavender's.
Don't know about you other anons but I like to read about more milk than your same old same old.
Also the other anon is right. Usually anons clearly complaint right away whith the content they post and not just dump something in hopes someone picks it up.
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Here is a topic; Creepshow is playing the January game and overflowing her channel with clickbait bullshit she is unqualified to talk about because January is the worst month for ad-rev and she knows it. Might as well exploit her young audience into believing she is some investigative expert, all under the guise of being an ‘Art Youtuber’. Nothing screams ‘I am intelligent’ like associating your actual face with someone being accused of sexual misconduct. Now, whenever I see the people she is talking about, I will be reminded of Creepshow, with her 2005 emo eyeliner on the body of a 45 year old southern Christian mother of two.
Oh, and don’t forget she likes watching men in heels beg for her money. Gotta let at least one video seem on-brand, right?
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I just saw this on her community tab and maybe its my autism but I can't even figure out what shes trying to ask for exactly.
Is she really implying that people should waste their time making her a bunch of art and maybe
they'll get lucky and she'll feature it on her shitty channel, oh, but her channel is so uwu edgy and popular that it will ~totally~ give them lots of exposure and start their art career!
I’m wondering why that number though? It seems oddly specific, this also disproves all the whining she does about being poor despite YouTube ad venue. You don’t do giveaways if you’re lacking funds yourself.
I’d consider it another part of the January game if she’s literally planning on paying people to make content for her again.
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I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet
the official Hazbin Hotel prequel comic, made by Vivziepop herself
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an anon mentioned in the previous thrread that Angel Dust was originally one pair of two mafioso spider brother characters but somewhere along the line Vivziepop amalgamated the brothers with another female chracter who was a nymphomaniac prostitute
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As of now this is the is the past page, the website hasn't updated since last October
This thread isn't as obscure as you think it is.
Also, like someone else mentioned, everyone else's videos get posted with commentary>x and y thing annoyed me in this video
Lavender's videos get posted like>here's her new video that literally nobody cares about
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A decent update;
Not only did she get banned on Twitter for a recent video, she is taking her fans down with her. I wonder if she will make a t-shirt out of it this time, while still ignoring and refunding commissions, all the while begging for her fans to make b-roll for her because she is too lazy to do it herself.
Talk shit, get hit.
Actually Anon this wasn't made primarily by Vivziepop at all. The artwork is being worked on by a few artists including Riplae and Umbreenix.
I'm not sure how much involvement she has in it but it's not in the art.
So to say it was made by Vivziepop herself is erasing those who HAVE been working on it.
It's a team.
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She also always draws the same lean and long body type, and to top it off the anatomy is just so wonky. Why doesn’t she draw something different for a change?? An illustration without figures maybe?
It hasn't been posted because there's nothing to say about it.>>506963
Holy shit that has to be the shittiest gun I've ever seen someone draw. It looks like a soda can with a handle.
Copics have many knockoffs that are just as good but cheaper, like Ohuhu markers.
You can also use watercolors and a watercolor pen, which is what I do. The only problem is that you don't have as much control, and you can't apply the color to your ink original– you have to make a photocopy, or do the colors on a totally different piece of paper and overlay them in Photoshop.>>507181
Nta but plenty of things are non-archival.
One of my professors gave a lecture the other day about how fragile oil paintings done on canvas with acrylic gesso are. He had a twenty-year-old oil painting that literally crumbled off the canvas when he bumped it because when oil cures it gets hard, but when acrylic cures it retains some of its plasticity.
He said that if you wanted your oil paintings to last a long time, you have to either use Italian gesso (which is made of animal skin glue) or switch to something other than canvas, like wood panels.
So if you've ever done oil paintings on acrylic gesso, you're in no place to be throwing shade at people who use Copics.
There's plenty of waterproof ink out there.
What I like about Copics is that you can refill them, don't know if you can do this with any of the cheap brands.
Shinhan touch twin has refills. But I don't know if they're cheaper or not>>507191
There are lots of brands but copic has the more colors than some brands combined. So if anyone wants to do marker work exclusively, they will at one point need to buy a couple of copics.
You're not gonna find any alcohol based marker that is archival.
I occasionally use pro- and brushmarkers from w&n, those are pretty cheap and nice to work with.>>507227
Kek, imagine making painter sound like something bad.
It's a valid
thing to bring up and doesn't warrant a piss-baby response like this
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It's still super stupid that seemingly the only reason for Angel to be from the 1940's was based solely on his weapon
Beginner CGI artist here.
It looks like a traced drawing done by someone who doesn't know how to use the clipping feature on art programs so their shading doesn't have pale outlines everywhere.
The shading is really appalling but it's not something that could be replicated easily in a CGI program.
It looks like babby's first attempt at drawing metallics in SAI (checking out their art gallery, apparently they CAN draw textures that look passable but that one just didn't come out well).
I haven't watched her videos in a while but her videos are basically lolcow posts in video format?>kickstart your online careers
Yeah, I would love my art to be attached to 20 minutes of someone else's sarcastic whining.
people who use copics or other types of alcohol based markers don't care about longevity, because once the original gets scanned it's pretty much useless to us. Aside from occasional commissions, we mostly sell prints, make merch or do art books.
To be honest painters and other artist constantly screaming at us for using non archival mediums is really exhausting and dumb.
I can go into more details as to why some people choose markers but I doubt anybody cares.
What do you mean "good work or anything close to what she does" do you mean video quality or? She is not a master artist.
If this person lost all
2k subs they "gained" that suggests she bought fake followers for cheap (presumably to enforce the "boost your career" narrative), and then the followers were automatically deleted.
IIRC she has a whole video where she claims to believe buying followers costs a fortune and she could never possibly do that, and claims she just watched her own videos on a loop to increase the view count.
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This doesn't look good?
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They’re often used either for straight to print artwork or design mock ups, the crowd you see using them in the mainstream are not the intended audience and are a bad example of the mediums capabilities
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Samefag but another example by Takeshi Obata
someone's projecting onto painters for no reason
why even bother with copics if you don't care about originals, just use photoshop. you don't even have to pay 6+ dollars for a bunch of shitty weeb markers if you know how to read and run a keygen
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Hot take: people who hate all art created in a particular medium are autistic and can't appreciate skill if it isn't in a medium they don't personally use.
I don't know what the fuck you're on about. Copics don't look like PS, they look like alcohol markers. Something tells me that even if people did "just use Photoshop" you'd act like an elitist to them, too. This kind of crap is why illustrators and fine artists don't always get along. Fine artists can sometimes be really pretentious and judgemental towards illustrators, because illustrators make art for everybody, whereas fine artists just make art for curators and other artists. They don't like that illustrators care about the opinions of the non-artist plebeians and actually want to make a career
out of this thing they love.>>507502>you don't know most traditional shit you see online in general is touched up digitally>>507505>Why are non-artists praising shitty art in a non-art thread while artists are being critical of it in an art thread?
Wow it's almost as though LCF isn't a hivemind and not every thread is inhabited by the same posters.
Since you use similar mediums I doubt I can tell you anything new.
But for me it's all about efficiency and speed since I do serialized work. Markers are mess free and they need little to no preparation and dry quickly. Also when used properly they scan perfectly and usually don't require much editing.
I feel like anons are gonna crucify me for this.
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Unrelated to the art medium discussion but what do yall think of this post by @devin.draws on Instagram? It was posted some time ago but only just showed up on my tl but it seems like everyone is mad at him for suggesting that people who only draw hyperrealistic eyes are stagnanting and overrated
The comment section is filled with artists with such styles taking personal offense to the post and claiming it was made specifically about them and their supporters trying to roast the OP for making clout-chasing memes
also the copic discussion is dumb as fuck, yeah theyre overpriced, theyre still nice if you want a flat, "digital" look and quick vibrant colors in traditional art (because watercolors or pencils are not going to get you that level of predictable, bright colors that easily). just dont sell the originals. can we stop now?
>>507563>Hot take: people who hate all art created in a particular medium are autistic and can't appreciate skill if it isn't in a medium they don't personally use.
can't call the truth a hot take anon, even if these idiots are blind to it lol.>>507614
so refreshing to see someone on insta pointing out the problems with it's "artist community". of course they get shitted on by the uninspired money hungry instathots though.>>507663
that was an important thing to bring up imo because i also didn't know it, but then every anon took it as the single argument to shit on the entire medium, since they haven't found something to be angry about yet that day.
That's not a fair comparison anon, pigments that fade or change in UV can still be properly stored to last. Marker work can't, it's always fugative, you'll have to scan it.
Spending big bucks on something that will fade is dumb, you can do it if you wanna but it's still dumb.
Marker work can be sold once scanned without those issues tho.
But you really can't compare that to the lightfastness of other mediums while improperly displayed
IDK, I feel like the last thing I’d want to be lightfast and last for a while is my art, so markers are perfect for me.
On a more serious note, markers like Copics feel nice to use. And I like being close to my medium, but not getting things like paint and water spilling everywhere. It is a clean medium that is vibrant and solid. I, personality, don’t feel the art I create in Photoshop is personal enough. That is why I spend 6+ dollars on a Copic marker. I simply feel more connected to the art-making process with that supply.
I don’t care if my art lasts, I just want to make it, man.
And that's perfectly fine
I buy almost only lightfast paints and pencils.
But just like I tell people how to take care of a watercolor piece it's important that people, buyers and artists alike are aware of how markers are gonna work, and fade.
All the pissing on each other ITT is annoying and anons should just ignore info they're already aware of, original anon didn't say anything offensive
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literally only has one thin girl and all has some kind of injury
I don't shave but I'm not Mediterranean so my hair isn't as thick as in the picture.
Not shaving is important if you live underwater because it helps you detect the flow of the current better.
Destinymooon could power her own thread. Usually she draws really ugly redraws of characters and makes them all trans.
This isn’t as bad as her usual work but I would rather see fit people of all shapes and sizes than blobs.
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samefag, i found this while checking sakimi's account, but i don't think it's traced off of this since it's at a different angle, but it shows how similar the anatomy mistakes they made are. i remember there being a dva drawing she's done that's in a similar pose, but i haven't found it.
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took 2 minutes to find
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overlay for reference
Ah this motherfucker again. Used to like him back when he had 1k subs, and was slightly tolerable. I think I got introduced to him though his "(ACTUAL) ANATOMY MISTAKES YOUNG ARTISTS MAKE" and it didn't feel like a bad video. But now it's like I'm re watching the same videos all over again. Shitty overly long intro joke that's edgy, some tips, back to shitty jokes and insults, some advice, shit joke, video ends.
The only advice that I thought was really stupid was when he said that you don't have to study the exact names of muscles, etc. to draw a person, which is true, but shitting on ModernDayJames because the bitch just wanted to explain the muscles while drawing it is dumb af.
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Man, if you want different art look for stuff other than the front page of Instagram. Even a site like Twitter is a lot better for finding new artists
Anon was complaining about all the art she sees looking the same, don't get mad just cause I told her how to find different stuff.>Any artist I don't recognize is a selfpost
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Instagram artist Cupspoodle is using Kobe Bryant's death to sell her comissions. I told her I thought it was disrespectful and she blocked me she also advertised it in the same post promoting her youtube channel(cowtipping)
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Shes also not donating the money its just a sale
imo it has more to do with fiction than reality.
The biggest problem I see with the divershitty meme is that its disingenuous. I know "soul" is thrown around like a buzzword, but to me its seeing an artist having fun while putting his/her best efforts into improving and refining projects. And these fuckers don't try to go out of the box or innovate/experiment- which you'd do if you actually gave a rats ass about art in the first place. Come on, its all about being creative.
I can go on like a broken record but one last point is that fiction is about making mundane everyday objects appealing, giving life to them. Realism will not automatically make your art 10/10, you still have to make careful decisions on which parts to stylize/idealize or keep realistic. (not excusing the "muh style" crap btw; realism is very important for artist especially beginners; understand how reality works to make their own "believable reality" in their fictional world etc.)
In all honesty, has anybody actually seen a female with the bottom proportions that are healthy?
Like, there are ways to exaggerate the female body, but,, why does it have to always go to immediate unhealthy standards?
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boy kasey really hates her kid followers huh
she's a cunt in general and being an edge lord in this situation, but it has to be irritating to have soccer moms screeching that what you make isn't appropriate instead of monitoring their own children.
but in fact of you're just average but also popular on YouTube it can only be because of kids, so she might have trapped herself there.
Tbh I'm more annoyed by how triggered
people get when they just draw people chubby which isn't ~crazy unhealthy uwu~ like I get not wanting to push obesity is fine and all that but if a female character has chub suddenly it's an ~agenda~. Like these people exist lol. Men can be chubby and no one cares but when a chick is jfc get ready for the meltdown
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I kinda agree with her, her style is so goddamn simplistic that the ‘nudity’ is nothing more than areola and pubic hair, and as a parent nothing fucks me off quite as much as other parents just sitting their kids in front of a tablet with YouTube auto playing, take them to a playground if they’re ‘too young’ to see something as mild as pic related
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Samefag, but on that note, I DO see an issue with her posting sexualised nudity on a channel that has a primarily child fan base; like another anon suggested, it would be wisest to instead start up a smaller second channel that is geared towards adults, especially if she wants to be a published children’s book author as editors and publishers do extensive background and social media checks due to the nature of the market (pretty much anything geared towards children will check up on what kind of persons work they are going to promote, unless of course you’re Nickelodeon), sexualised mild nudity may not kill her career, but it’ll certainly make her less desirable due to the risk associated with such a public platform with content that isn’t child friendly
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Spoilered for nudity
I don’t get it. This is supposed to be a trans male idol but you’re not fooling anyone. She looks like a regular tiddie waifu
oh lordy I'm having Misty flashbacks.
They really should of cut down their ambitions if they can't full-on emulate the animu style. Its just ends up being an uncanny valley that doesn't look pleasant.>>508186>season 2 never ever
1. Take a break from looking at the art you get jealous of.
2. Follow older people for inspiration and you won't feel like you should be better by now.
3. Watch Rae and you'll feel instantaneously better.
Yes. Because every trans woman already have big tits and a vagina.>>508194
I agree with her. These people act so high and mighty, but they let their kids use the internet unsupervised. If the kids found something you don't agree with, then it's not the creators' fault when you could've done something to not let your kids see it or some shit.
Not dead, just kinda slow
Here is is if you need it: >>880591
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thoughts on viorie?
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Jfc she stagnated, I remember following her years ago. Pic related is 2015
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Really not that hard to find interesting art, leave your bubble every once in a while. On that note, Pinterest is a fantastic resource for finding artists
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Eh, to each their own, but my point stands that if you leave your personal bubble then you can find different types of artists
On that note, since the art you like thread is dead I’d be interested in seeing some of anons favourite artists
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Samefag, but does anyone know any contemporary children’s illustrators that have a crude/simplistic yet whimsical art style? Something similar to pic related or the above post, I’m looking for more artists to aspire to
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Anons that have done commissions for furries; is it worth it?
- are they difficult to work with?
- is it easy to get into?
- do they expect high quality art or are fine with intermediate levels as long as it’s self indulgent?
- can you expect to get a decent amount of commissions?
- do certain styles do better than others (say a very simplistic one over semi realistic)?
it all depends on the individual. from my experience they're pretty alright to work with and i make 40$ despite not being the best or most detailed. it can be hard to get into if you dont enjoy what you draw in general, most people will see your art and commission you if they like your style.
overall, its what you make of it. a lot of artists have found a decent client base through the fandom.
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forgot to include the picture
Alright I'll spoonfeed the baby>are they difficult to work with?
The same as any other weeb commissioner>Is it easy to get into?
Now that everyone and their mom is jumping on the furry money train you have to be a very high skill level to walk straight into it. If not, expect to do spend some time on promotional art and laying the groundwork to pretend that you're not just another non-furry trying to cash in on their furry neetbux>do they expect high quality art or are fine with intermediate levels as long as it’s self indulgent? do certain styles do better than others?
Look at furry artists similar to your skill and style to you and see what they charge, how much completed commission art they post etc, but also keep in mind if their success comes from being a longtime active community member or from cornering a niche fetish>can you expect to get a decent amount of commissions?
There is no way to say without judging your art and audience interaction against current artists. Often you will get a burst of commissions when you're new because collectors like to get art from every artist they can find, but then it's up to you to keep the momentum going, it can take time to develop a fanbase.
If you like drawing furries then it's worthwhile because you only it anyway, but if you're not interested in furies and you're not a god level of skill then you will make easier money in less time at McDonald's. Please also be aware that /ic/ sometimes just outs artists who have secret furry or kink alts for fun, so only do it if you don't care about being found out.
But anon it's aesthetic desu
I'd choose my tubes over those tubs anytime tbh, something about them feels grummy
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I don't know who to respond to in this argument but I hate the tiny french fry hand thing as well. It feels like hands looked normal size up until some point when mommy-fetishers became a thing in the late 00s and then everyone got these weird tiny hands.
I tried watching this earlier, never seen the dude before but checked out what he usually do and clicked off because of that.
Got recommended another video of his showing old pre college art and man.. he used to create interesting pieces with cool concepts and with a variety of skills.
"her head looks so big but its ok cause its an illustration"
illustration isn't an excuse to make proportions look disgusting, rae
They stay wet in the containers for months. They dry fast on the palette, but just throw a few drops of water on it. If you're considering buying these know they stink!
Funny enough only saltecrafter bringed it up in these trend chase reviews
I'm ayrt, thanks for the explanation.
I dislike tiny hands, and also those hands with the knuckles and the floppy fingers, didn't manage to find any examples, let's hope it went out of fashion
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How do you guys get back into art again? I just went through a break up with a friend a while back and it devastate me to the point i lost all of my motivation to create sth new. Picking up a pen and draw when my mind is empty never felt so heavy and devastating, it seems like my creative juices just ran out and im siting here not content abt any piece of art that i drew…
Lol same thing he says in the video which makes him so hypocritical: for the likes.
But yeah he draws the same boring ass women too so it’s also like, are you calling yourself out too my dude? Like even him demoing doesn’t even show him pushing enough, in the end it’s still the same small chinned bug eyed girl everyone else draws too. Like don’t pat yourself on the back for not drawing pouty lips when like, you’re still drawing the essentially same thing except her eyebrows moved
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I like them ok for a start but because of their bodysuits and the lighting sometimes is too bright, then you lose a lot of landmarks on a body that aren’t good if you want to have an emphasis on anatomy. They’re a step up at least from those body-chan dolls.
Though you gotta go to the Becca thread to see “optimum” uses of senshistock as practice
I wish rae would join a introductory art class and learn the god damned basics already
Or a workshop, anything really
I see this bitch all the time on my Instagram feed, in the past, shes scammed people she'd own commissions to then block them when they asked for a refund, tried to argue that anyone drawing characters with an animal mast or plants "was copying her", whine that she hasn't been getting interactions / her art getting less interactions.
i could go off about dentiny moon, the crowd that follows her goes "Yass queen" when she makes the not like other girls into transwomen lesbians but got mad when the new guy thing happened.
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every poor bitch itt
I don't know why anons think if they just draw a dog dick they'll immediately rake in the cash.
It's like looking at the amount of money Sakimichan makes from wonky fanart and believing that you're going to strike it that big by starting your own tittymonster art patreon. It's confirmation bias.
Exactly. It takes a while to establish yourself first and the real money is in the porn games, not the porn commissions.
so if you don't know how to code you're fucked.
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Why are furries so delusional?
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destinytomoon really cant come up with anything other then this kind of sht huh. what are those eyes?
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Kind of you to imply Rae is ok when she is copying something, but she really is not. She’s pretty shit regardless of what she is drawing. Don’t get me started on her oil paintings
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For reference, this is the original picture (or the closest I could get to it). So even if she wasn’t drawing the mirror image its a yikes
But even a drawing 101 class would be intimidating for her because she sucks at the basic fundamentals.
I know she went to art school but doing those classes over again would show her that she hasn't improved
I mean, hear me out on this one; people could NOT draw degenerate porn and indulge disgusting fetishes. Does the world really need more feeder diaper fetish drawings of sparkle dog fursonas?
I don’t understand why people immediately jump to porn when they want to earn money, news flash, if someone wanks to it then there’s already a plethora of porn of it available online. What happened to just drawing someone’s shitty self-insert OC, or pet portraits (it is ridiculous just how much ‘furparents’ pay for pet portraits, they seem to hemorrhage money)
Yet I can't find a decent female artist who draws hot sweaty muscular cartoons dudes :/
I miss the days where drawing female characters (especially fan art) wasn't just oversaturated NSFW shit especially with putty boobs,tiny waists and huge thighs
You must be following the wrong people then
because its actually pretty easy to find exactly what you want lol
If you find just one of them you'll easily get other users to follow since most girls drawing muscular and pretty boys follow each other
>>508972>Drawing stuff I suck at
Well, this artwork certainly does
suck, but something tells me the things she thinks she doesn't suck at don't look much better.
Also, this has three million views and this woman who draws like an eighth grader has over a million subscribers.
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What do you think about Christopher Hart? I have been looking into his How to draw manga books lately since a few pages or tutorials like pic related have been poping up on most sites I go.
I found out that many artists dislike him for many of these tutorials, where he doesn't give any advice aside from "They MOST look pretty!" And the way he is on DeviantArt, by not taking any advice from anyone and mass blocking.
While other artists defend him by saying that his books were a great inspiration with really helpful advice when they were younger.
I don't own any of his books, however for the stuff I have seen, I don't like how much he insist on drawing girls pretty all the time, I don't want to sound like someone who screams for diversity in media, that's not my problem, what does annoy me is that it gives me that "Only draw boring pretty girls" artist vibe that has been discussed a lot on these threaths.
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Sorry for double post, but here is what I meant for not accepting any advice from anyone, this just comes as pretencious to me.
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Ah yes, Christopher hart, a master of manga
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Chris Hart is an old cow who got a ton of “how to draw manga” books published way back in the nineties cuz manga was just super hard to get back then. He’s obviously improved now but these are some of his pages of those old books. But he’s just a pretty standard cartoonist, nothing is helpful from him or those books, they’re basically like jazza’s or baylee jae’s books where they are just how to draw in their particular style without any foundations.
Anon you’re better off with the How To Draw Manga books that come from Japan published by Graphic-sha or Japanime (they’re usually the ones with white covers) and don’t get any how to draw with anyone with a western name, they usually range from OK to “saw an anime once twenty year’s ago”
If your mind or imagination doesn't work just cut it out of the equation and do studies. For example do color comps, practice shading/lineart, use geometric shapes and work on figuring out interesting compositions and …
That works for me, hope it helps
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so this artist was rted onto my twitter timeline and you’d think it was some wholesome, cutesy style artist but no. they draw lolicon. like why do people waste their skills on such degeneracy
(inb4 someone says “but it’s obvious they draw loli porn!!”)
what do anons think of these types of artists that draw beautifully but create content you disagree with?
is it okay to warn the art community about them (based solely on art, not behavior)? should you unfollow/ignore it? i see a lot of arguments against artists that draw questionable ships or fetish art, even if those artists aren't exactly trying to hide the fact that they create this kind of art. is it still deceptive to make nice art, but draw something deemed culturally unsavory or irresponsible?
i think there's a valid
point in wanting to protect kids and curating the content you see, but how far should you go with it? is it okay to let artists know this isn't acceptable and they shouldn't post these things online?
>>509392>is it still deceptive to make nice art, but draw something deemed culturally unsavory or irresponsible?
Deceptive… lol. I don't know which world you live in where people learn to draw to caters to others. Who cares about what they draw.
If you disagree with it, you can block them. But no matter how many people you block and signal boost others to block, they will still exist and keep drawing the shit you hate, so it's kinda pointless.
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>>509392>is it still deceptive to make nice art, but draw something deemed culturally unsavory or irresponsible?
Kek goodbye to almost all western 'great works of art' then
If you want to protect children from anything then you just don't let them use the internet. I agree that using child-friendly art styles for degenerate art can lead children into consuming it, but that's why parents need to pay attention to what their children are actually consuming. Content makers should be responsible in marking their adult content as such, but it's not their fault if a child goes ahead and views it anyway.
The whole anti-kinkshaming culture on Twitter has emboldened pedos enough that they no longer have any sense of shame. >>509392
There are millions of artists off and online so there are bound to be many, many of them who draw well and draw things I find distasteful. I just ignore them and focus on the ones I like. I'm just one person so my tastes don't set the stage for anyone's content but my own.
"The whole anti-kinkshaming culture on Twitter"
I seriously doubt unpopular japanese-only-speaking lolicon artists care much about western twitter culture.
Also it has absolutely nothing to do with Twitter, either. Wanna take a look at pixiv and see what you find?
Anon, she said she got them for free from Artsnacks.
(But #nosponsor. Yeah sure, Chloe.)
Still, I don't get why she rushes her videos. She's like a weird mix of Baylee (does not produce filler videos beforehand, so instead produces rushed videos with zero content) and Rae (shit skills) with better filming. And she looks healthier than those two. But boi was that a clickbait video.
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that's exactly what i'm trying to understand here… what's the point of signaling to unfollow/block? or people saying "i love x artist but i cant believe they draw y ship/incest/pedo/etc". that's where i got the idea that maybe they felt deceived by the nice art.
take these tweets for example.. is there a good reason to 'call out' people deemed degenerate/'freaky'? is ignoring/blocking not an option here or do people really need to know about these artists
>>509561>what's the point of signaling to unfollow/block
There's no point but to feel morally superior, really. Signal boosting these artists only give them more exposure, for better or for worse.
It has no place in modern twitter culture besides just trying to feel better than others for consuming pure media or whatever, I don't really care.
All i'm saying is that with block chains and other stuff ready available, PSAs like this only make the artist exposure grow, making it more viable for even more minors or victims
(as if they really care about that) to see lol.
Also most artists like this have +18 and follow at own risk or whatever in their bio.
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they made everyone wear visors for whatever reason and dumped a bunch of unnecessary sht on tohru
- why would momo need to search how to make stuff, her quirk is literally creating stuff
- tooru can go invisible but ok make her wear clothes that can be toggled into being invisible because thats so much more convienient
- kirishima doesnt wear a shirt because it would just rip from his rock skin
this is infuriating wow
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I know Pirate Cashoo is literally a crackhead and degenerate but her original horror artwork (not the bland ass comission work she does) is all kinds of amazing.
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This is especially stupid because they're exposing their under aged followers to adult content which is an actual crime.>>509568
Lmao @ her response to all the people dragging her.
this is the most try hard woke thing i've ever laid my eyes on. what's even the point of giving them all this clothing and design? and so incredibly hideuous too. and love how mina is just a darker shade of pink.
these faggots keep creating these ugly pieces as if they're going to contribute to today's racism and bigotry and leave a huge ass impact like MLK like no, you're just ruining good design because you get too defensive over a bunch of fake characters.
watch them draw the girls in burquas next because "uwu minors need to be proteckkckted <3">>509571
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by racebending ALREADY japanese characters you're basically saying that they're not "poc" enough so you have to give them more oppression points by changing their skin color.
Oh my god, I hate this argument;
It is not MY JOB to monitor what YOUR CHILDREN watch/view on any social media platform. An artist can draw as much degeneracy as they want, if they say 'viewer discretion is advised', or have an indication they make NSFW art like the 'not 18' emoji, which is universally used to signal they make NSFW art, then they have done their due diligence by warning the viewer. Not only that, the language barrier makes it even more difficult in cases like this. Who gives a fuck about the kids? It is the parent's job to monitor what their kids do, no individual artist can assure whoever is viewing their work is of age since lying about age has been around since the internet's inception. If you don't want the precious babies to see cartoon dick, be an actual adult and parent your child. Block the accounts you don't like, if it is actual TOS violation, report it. Use some god-damn personal responsibility.
Arguing the legality of the art itself is a different conversation, but arguing the legality over who views it? That ain't it, chief.
implying that cartoon man have more than 1 face and body type
careful not to cut yourself on your edge
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I remember seeing a twitter post by FBI (or CPS don't remember which) that told people to stop misusing the report function on people who aren't actual criminals or breaking laws. The truth is that the whole loli/shota has already been researched heavily across all countries; Japan itself even issued a ban on those subjects in the early 2000's, but they realized that it doesn't affect the number of cases of child abuse. The earliest conclusion was from 2012 by Denmark that explicitly state that weeb drawings don't lead to pedophilia.
Also I remember some fat dude who had those stereotypical hipster soyboy looks, who got busted for child abuse. He tweeted constantly about hating animu (and calling anyone who likes anime a pedo) and the next day he would tweet creepy shit, being near a nursery school and taking pics then calling himself "pedobear" it was legit disgusting. There's certainly a trend here of these weirdos who do more harm to society than the people they call out for drawing impossible tentacle porn hentai. I could write up a big essay on anime/cartoon not being a good reference for your sexuality but nows not the time. (sorry for the vent)
Nah, I agree with you.
People who are incredibly against what others draw and shit like that pull so many red flags to me, like something's up. Specially when they're self-proclaimed fandom mom uwu protecting the minors or whatever, it's so weird.
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I guess the whole point of bringing this up is also the argument that if you draw something deemed gross, incest/pedo art or what have you, you find that acceptable in real life OR will influence people to commit horrible acts based on this kind of art… maybe that's why people feel so morally obligated to shame these artists directly and publicly.
like pic related and the one anon posted earlier, art may fall into a morally questionable place, but is it really fair to say this kind of thing is 100% dangerous and damaging? It's fair to say you hate it and think it's creepy, and I also think most people who look at this kind of art know that it's fucking criminal to abuse kids and it comes with heavy repercussions and long lasting damages, so what are these callouts supposed to accomplish? kids shouldn't be on the internet unmonitored anyway.
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NTA but I’m assuming it’s a loli comic
I think anyone that is morally corrupt enough to somehow get their rocks off to the idea of kids is fucked and should be shamed for it, if I recall correctly there was a survey done that found 1 in 100 men had pedophilic tendencies - this is based on a survey where men were shameless
enough to admit they’d fuck a 14 year old if they could away with it, I can only imagine how many more are rightfully too ashamed to say so. I bring this survey up because the sexual depiction of children in artwork feeds into this mentality, people who are drawn to loli/shota/cub are not right in the head and need to stop thinking with their genitals for a single fucking moment to actually critically think about their desires.
It’s not normal to be turned on by kids, and saying it’s fine because it’s fiction is just a massive fucking cope
Comic LO (short for Lolita) is a well-known lolicon hentai anthology series. The covers are made to look like innocent slice of life illustrations. I only know this because someone I used to know caused a huge stink about it getting banned from 18+ vendor rooms at cons a few years back.
On that note, didn't a guy in Japan get in trouble for trying to rape/raping a young girl after being inspired by a very famous loli doujin?
I'm just gonna put this vid here - there's nothing really wrong with it, other than not being that useful -
But, I can't help but complain because this woman has named her computer and ipad for some reason and she literally has to introduce them every time as if they're people. Like, really, your ipad is named hippogryph? No one cares, that's so stupid.
And from what I can tell she even has a romantic attraction or something to her laptop, because she draws art of it as a character, interacting with her self insert. And she says she wants to marry her laptop. In one video, she asks her computer if it wants to be in the video and then puts it in the background - and I thought she was video chatting with someone until I realized she was talking to her actual computer.
I dunno, maybe she's joking, but it annoyed me and I needed to complain
Thanks for listening
Oh god Christopher Hart, that name takes me back. I'll be honest, I have a few of his books though they are about 16-18 years old now. His books definitely helped me want to take drawing more seriously as I bought one of his earlier books back in like 2003 and I was super into anime at the time what with being in middle school.
In hindsight his books weren't really that helpful as far as fundamentals went and he wasn't very good at explaining things, at least in my opinion. Trying his method of drawing all those years ago, my characters would always come out so stiff looking and this is because I lacked fundamentals. Now I don't know how his books are not if he's still making them as the last one I got from his How to Draw collection was back in 2006 but personally, I would skip on his stuff and just stick with Loomis or any of the Disney Artists as I notice in their tutorials, especially Disney artists that they at least incorporate some sort of fundamental in it like the Line of action and what not.
This is kind of like arguing that we shouldn't connect the dots when a very particular topic's sexualization is being normalized.
Every study on this will tell you that it's not exactly like video games. Human sexuality is fluid and very sensitive to outside influences, and that's just the inconvenient truth of it. It's especially sensitive when it comes to children being exposed to sexual content from an early age. It colors their perception of sex for life.
It's kind of a blow to the "absolute freedom of speech, media doesn't cause any effect on anyone" camp, but like it or not, any society that approves of children being sexually objectified is one that encourages pedophilic attitudes. If it's treated as normal, even in fiction, it's not just "natural" pedophiles who will be groomed not to see a problem.
i'm not saying that children should to be exposed to this content, i specified that a normal adult who has already formed their sexuality will not be changed because of this content (also i don't think equating pedophilia to a sexuality is a good argument to make). children under no circumstance should see this content, and i've yet to see one account who doesn't at least have the 18+ emoji on them when they post that content.
there have been no studies about the exact effects this fiction has on adults, the most official documents i've seen that reference this content is court cases that haven't found it illegal.
i'm not stating media doesn't have any effect irl (especially on impressionable children), i just think that in spaces closed away from children adults should be able to explore problematic
themes in fiction.
Not equating pedophilia to a sexuality, I'm specifically describing paraphilia and its easy spread through pornographic content. Just look at the rise in popularity in anal sex as a direct result of mainstream porn.>a normal adult who has already formed their sexuality
This is exactly what I mean: That's not a thing. Fetishes don't remain in stasis, completely immutable without opportunity to worsen. Porn addicts seek harder and harder content precisely because the human mind doesn't "freeze" on one thing just because you hit a certain age. >i just think that in spaces closed away from children adults should be able to explore problematic themes in fiction.
What does an adult have to "explore" in the sexualization of children? Honest question. Content that discusses CSA is one thing, but I can't think of a single beneficial thing to ever come out of shit like >>509672
or the work of >>509374
. Like, what is the gain here? When a mind is being trained with repeated images associating childish forms with sex, what is the inherent takeaway that justifies it all?
a mind isn't "trained" when viewing this content, i don't know how to explain this better to you, but no normal adult becomes a pedophile from viewing this content. i'm not sure if you are saying there that lolicon or pedophilia is a fetish, but if you are saying lolicon is, than there you have it, it's supposed to be a fantasy, not a thing done in real life.
i can't say for sure every aspect of what someone might gain from those examples, but i've heard people state that in a way it's an exploration of a weaker aspect of themselves, that they project themselves onto the characters. you also probably heard this one already (since so many people make fun of it here), but people could use it to cope with their own experiences as well, as a way to take back control they had lost.
but anyway, my main point is that as long as this content is being kept away from children, adults should be able to engage with it, even if the reason doesn't strike your fancy. i'm not saying no one should be disgusted that this content exists, or that it shouldn't give red flags, i just don't think labeling people pedophiles over drawings is accurate at all.
If you think sexual fetishism has no bearing in real life and that it's "just fantasy", then you're kind of ignoring literally everything that's been studied when it comes to the effects of pornography on society as a whole, anon.
I very strongly doubt the grown men pushing out comic after comic and drawing of little girls being brutalized or objectified are "taking back control they lost" or "trying to cope", or that the majority of consumers of that content are people trying to do the same, but you're free to your own outlook.
It's not a matter of personal fancy, it's just pretty blatant and in-your-face what this is, and it's pretty sad that people defend it because it's already become so normal.
IMO, it's still on-topic because it's to do with art, and goes off of the issues discussed earlier.
well if it's on topic we can talk about it more, though i'm not sure if you are looking for this conversation to have an outcome or just saying this stuff you can feel like a morally righteous person.
there still have been no studies about this specific content, and you can't generalize other porn studies onto this. i feel like you are really taking a stance that "porn bad" which is pretty detrimental to discussing this topic. what do you think is the exact effect on society is of this content existing? if it's that people start becoming pedophiles, then i've already said many times that there are no specific studies on it. and if it were such rampant thing than it would be something people would actually worry about irl too, and not just yell about it over the internet (while ignoring very real pedophiles in internet spaces too). anon up by a few posts even mentioned how the fbi had to make a post warning people that misusing their report system for this content is helping no one.
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hopefully wrangling this back to the original question I brought up, basically does liking questionable art mean you support sexualization being normalized (as >>509759
said)? Is there even a point for it to be drawn in the first place like >>509768
said, and should people that still draw it be villified? On the other hand, does fiction really play such an important part in changing adult behavior (as >>509599
said)? is there a gray area or do we need to treat these things seriously (or not, just block and ignore)
I think most can agree that an artist like shadbase is different to CLAMP (thinking of Card Captor Sakura and elementary kid/adult teacher thing), or is it all the same? is it still supporting bad shit? can you give people the benefit of understanding that "x is bad, i like this art, but x is still bad". Do people that like Takamichi's work support LO by liking the covers or is it as bad as actually reading LO? Just to be clear, I'm attaching Range Murata as an example because he falls into the similar category of 'draws little girls in a way you'd want to question' (search for his other works and see).
I guess I'm mostly just trying to piece together when people are reaching and when it should be a cause for concern. the salt I have is in the examples of 'callouts' I posted above… is that kind of thing necessary? IMO it's pointless, but I want to understand it deeper after being a kid once that did see disturbing things and what i should do now as an adult. It's one thing to call out people that have actually abused minors, but should the same treatment be applied to a small artist that drew some incest ship? is it the same amount of evil to depict that as normal? do the problems of societal & cultural sexualization of children and violent abuse apply in these cases (ie small artists in fandoms) or can we agree that it's…. kind of a reach in order to feel morally superior? it just especially bothers me when these small, usually foreign artists get tons of threatening messages about being freaks or w/e. are they really who we need to go after
NTA but actually, there have been a number of studies and a fair amount of research regarding the law of diminishing returns in relation to pornography. the books 'your brain on porn' and 'the porn myth' are both good reads regarding this and they compile a good deal of the studies and research out there on the subject. If you want to really know for sure what's what in this situation maybe grab them from your library, read them, then find (google) the studies they cite as sources and give them a once over yourself for accuracy/proper controls and protocols. I think taking steps like That would be the only way anyone could be certain of their stance on this issue, or any issue.
Quit frankly anybody who's taken a 101 psych, statistics or just any course that requires you to verify legitimate sources should be able to ascertain the legitimacy of a study so there's no reason not to take the time to look into it.
It is difficult to find the studies in the wild, mainly because it's an unpopular stance to suggest that there could be negative side-effects or consequences of regularly consuming porn, so most organizations or websites that would normally cover it either jump into defensive denial and ad hominem attacks on the researchers goals, or ignore the information completely since they don't want to upset/lose their reader/viewership (let's be honest, there's not really any media outlets lefts that's not more about entertainment than facts or information). Even google is more likely to recommend to you NYT articles mocking the concept rather than give you the raw data to examine yourself.
In the CLAMP example you mentioned, I think it's woman artists/writers reflecting the paradigm they've already been taught to normalize, without really pausing to question it.
When Shadbase does it, he has a perfect understanding of how fucked up it is, and that's part of the reason why he likes it so much.
The first is problematic
, while the second is an actual problem.>can you give people the benefit of understanding that "x is bad, i like this art, but x is still bad"
Individually, maybe, but collectively, no. I don't think appreciating that >>509660
and other LO covers have a somber/peaceful look to them is the same as being an apologist for the actual content therein, but there are also people who pretend to only like the "wholesome" art as a shield for what they're really into.
In the former case, it only becomes an issue, IMO, when someone starts to glorify the full package. I think Range Murata's art is beautiful, but the weird, sexualized aspects make me avoid praising him too highly. I'm pretty sure a lot of people who are into manga-styled art can relate to that kind of cognitive dissonance. Some go full lolicon-defending cope mode to deal with it, instead of just accepting that sick fucks can also be talented, but by virtue of them being sick fucks, in a just world, they'd automatically forfeit at least half (if not more) of the praise they would/should normally get.
Obviously, most of the Twitter "callouts" are just useless and OTT. With only a few exceptions, most of the people they "expose" are just like the example of CLAMP: Problematic
, but not a problem.
I think there should be space to discuss the issues with normalizing certain sorts of content (especially within fandom), especially since it can be used to groom kids, but it could be handled better.>are they really who we need to go after
This is just based off my personal snooping, but 9 times out of 10, the people who need to be gone after are the nobodies in the comment sections defending the artist(s) because they have their own stash or history, but everyone just tells them to fuck off and/or mostly ignores them because the artist or writer is a bigger fish with more evidence laid out.
The smart thing to do would be to track the fans of people who make incest/pedo content, but that's more of a long game, and Twitter users often have too low of an attention span.
Yeah, pedos 'are born' like serial killers/psychopaths; their brains are wired differently from birth which causes them to be less sympathetic to others, and are very, very good at masking their fucked up behaviors. And also it could be that they were locked up in some fucked up situation, abused and severely tortured at an early age, but the former is more common/legit.
Even masturbation addicted coomers who go on pornhub everyday won't deliberately look for illegal shit, and if they do find a thumbnail that even implies it, they'll get the fuck out of there and not click it. >>509802>>509660>>509802
Like I said in my last post about anime not being a good reference for any form of sexuality; the anime art style is very idealized in general. Its like how regular porn creates an illusion of it looking exciting, but when you do it IRL with someone, it won't feel the same. I remember back when tumblr wasn't 100% insane, and we'd all laugh at crazies (like Choco bird fountain), LGBT blogs expressed frustration with having late teenagers in college asking them if they're gay etc. because they fapped to futa tentacle hentai, then explaining for the nth time that its not the case. In general, if you aren't willing to hook up with someone with a certain gender/trait, you aren't gay/bi and just like the fantasy of it, and not the actual thing.
Psychology, anything related to the brains is a tough subject that needs to be handled with the upmost care. Twitter NEETs LARPing as armchair psychologists shouldn't play police when they don't know how to handle the guns; the best you can do is report to the FBI if you have clear evidence/facts of suspecting groomers in your group or whatever.
>>509845>Like I said in my last post about anime not being a good reference for any form of sexuality; the anime art style is very idealized in general.
exactly this, this why i was saying that we can't generalize studies of irl porn videos onto the subject of lolicon. and there have been no studies about that specifically, which is a shame.
and on the topic of the twitter callouts, not only are they useless, they have only caused people to have more and more warped views of what pedophilia and incest means. small age differences being talked about as being pedophilic, or the more ridiculous "they are childhood friends so it's incest". some of you said that this content is warping people's perception of right and wrong, but more often what i see is that people vehemently against it have warped views of what pedophilia and incest is, and they are influencing other people with this.
>>509845>Even masturbation addicted coomers who go on pornhub everyday won't deliberately look for illegal shit, and if they do find a thumbnail that even implies it, they'll get the fuck out of there and not click it.
If only that were true.https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02668734.2013.847851>Clinical experience and now research evidence are accumulating to suggest that the Internet is not simply drawing attention to those with existing paedophilic interests, but is contributing to the crystallisation of those interests in people with no explicit prior sexual interest in children.
Also, here's a more in-depth one:https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12119-016-9355-0>Clinical experience and now research evidence are accumulating to suggest that the Internet is not simply drawing attention to those with existing paedophilic interests, but is contributing to the crystallisation of those interests in people with no explicit prior sexual interest in children.>As our current research here can only speak to the trends illuminated from our analysis, future studies must be conducted in order to ascertain information regarding actual attitudes and behaviors associated with consuming youth-oriented pornography. Overall, the results indicate all three hypotheses were supported. We found that there has been a significant increase in the rate of interest within teenage pornography, amateur pornography, and Hentai inspired pornography, which is unsurprising given the popularity of the niches among and widespread availability content via pornographic hubs (Ogas and Gaddam 2011). >Clearly the interest in youth-oriented pornography has increased over the past decade, and that increase appears to coincide with what Gill (2008, 2012) and others argue is the continued ‘‘sexualization of culture’’. Only the search interest in Lolita pornography has decreased, most likely a result of the antiquated terminology and decrease in popularity, as more specific queries have arisen. Moreover, the evidence supports our hypothesis that those seeking out these subgenres within the niche of teenage pornography are a heterogeneous population rather than a homogenous group.
Applying real world justice standards to drawings is autistic, period. If Shadman was just drawing the gross fetish porn he's doing now I wouldn't care but the fact that he's openly creeping on irl people
makes him disgusting. This topic has been beaten to the ground already and I want the discourse to die already, plenty of people use art to handle emotions and trauma, children might be used as symbolic self-inserts, yada yada. Fiction is used to explore things we would never accept in real life. Everyone
has some nasty, dubious and/or illegal thing they like in fiction but would never take to reality. The people screeching about "shipping minors" have no problem watching these same minors get beat up by adults in battle. They might like horror movies or true crime documentaries with murders in them. That would get your ass sent to prison so fast if you would go around committing that in real life.
Bottom line, don't like it, don't look at it. It's that easy. Save the callouts for when someone actually gets caught kiddly diddling. Plenty of people who have never shown any signs of pedophilic tendencies have been outed as possessing child porn and touching kids. A ton of dedicated male feminists have been exposed as rapists. The thought that you can somehow spot a predator based on their interests is just causing false hope to people in a situation where you desire control over horrible things you can't always do anything about.>>509781
It's one thing to look at porn with real people in it and become desensitized, drawing cartoon porn is another. Of course watching something way more immersive and realistic is going to affect your brain but there's a difference between something like, say, watching an action movie with gorey scenes and a Liveleaks ISIS decapitation video.
was being aggressive to begin with, probably.
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>>509967>masturbating to drawings of children doesnt mean you're a pedophile though
This was literally not said by any poster in this thread, including the one you replied to.
It's very obvious that a majority of those militantly against loli and shota content - especially those who claim that fictional, drawn content of that nature is equal to or equally as harmful as child pornography and child sexual abuse - care in no way about abuse victims
and adopt that view because they believe it a way to garner more attention and appear morally superior in others' eyes, especially on social media, where people are rewarded for appealing to others. Those who experienced sexual assault/abuse as a child know how damaging it is, and really don't appreciate seeing people (usually faux-progressive teenagers on Twitter and Tumblr, let's be honest) jump at any chance to accuse someone of having abused a child solely for their own personal gain, all while throwing terms like "pedophile", "predator", and "abuse" around, further disregarding victims
' experiences and emotions by desensitizing the actual meanings and implication of those terms.Victims
of childhood sexual abuse want justice, be it social or legal, for their situation and what happened to them. They want others to listen to them, take them seriously, and understand what they've been through. They don't want completely unrelated people online using cases like theirs as an opportunity to promote themselves by playing up a false idea that they're a "socially-progressive hero saving innocent minors!", especially
doing something as demeaning as comparing the abuse a child experienced to a drawing.
When did this superbly-woke-Tumblr-liberal mentality of "drawings totally equal abusing a child" migrate to lolcow? If you're looking for people to tell you that you're such a good person and you're saving so many children from lifelong trauma by calling random strangers pedophiles in sarcastic posts, this isn't the place.
The hyperbolic niche cumbrained, basement-dwelling weeb audience really can't be used as some sort of a legitimate example. They're already mentally ill and detached from the real world, their sick fetishes are just a derivative of that. While I absolutely agree that IRL porn warps the perception of sex when it comes to young people and it's a bad thing, I still don't think cartoons are as influential as actual porn. It doesn't stimulate your brain in the same way seeing real people would. >>509970
It's really no use to argue. These people don't realize that the "muh cartoons equals real people" discourse will come to bite them in the ass later after they get caught enjoying something in fiction someone doesn't like. People are already claiming that shit like shipping a fictional 17 year old and a 28 year old is pedophilia and glorifying abuse and that short characters are "child-coded". People have gotten to taste what it's like to have the power to cancel someone with a moral outrage, they're out to do it whenever they can.
>>509970> adopt that view because they believe it a way to garner more attention and appear morally superior in others' eyes, especially on social media, where people are rewarded for appealing to others
I implore anons to actually go outside for once, because if you speak to any non autist they’ll rightfully tell you it’s utterly degenerate to want to fuck children, fictional or real. Not everything comes down to wanting to impress others, nor is it about feeling morally superior, it’s that it is beyond fucking foul to see childlike imagery/mannerisms and think of sex. As to anons arguing that fantasy has no bearing on reality, and that fictional children do not turn adults to pedophilic tendencies, explain to me the rise of DDLG; the romanticisation and fetishisation of incestuous child abuse. People WERE in fact groomed into such degeneracy, and you’re being purposely obtuse if you claim that it’s not the case.
Life imitates Art.
Every time I read the ‘i-it’s just fantasy, what’s the harm!!’ argument I always assume it’s a man with an anime profile on all his socials.
Plenty of rape victims
go on to then uphold rape culture, are you implying that just because someone has suffered that they cannot possibly have shitty views about it? I can think of countless female artists that have been raped in the past that then went on to pornographic material that heavily revolves around rape.
Any non-autist in the real world will also think that posting to an anonymous gossip imageboard is a sign of a sociopath and that anyone who watches cartoons/reads comics at age over 12 is probably severely mentally stunted or has pedo tendencies. The popularity of DDLG isn't on the rise because of muh cartoon porn, DDLG is ultimately a niche subculture populated by mentally ill men and girls who were damaged at some point in real life. It's not even "on the rise" to begin with, it's only thought of as "popular" because you browse degenerate sugar baby threads here on Lolcow. Actual people think it's sick.
I fucking swear that the people here have the most warped perspective on the state of society and hang around cumbrained losers all day long to think that "literally everyone" is crazy about child porn, daddy doms, choking fetishes and violent rape.
They can have shitty views on it, which is wrong and deserves to be reprimanded. However, it should be kept in mind that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they support what you don't support. It's unlikely that someone who's had to suffer through abuse is going to support abuse, especially when they specifically spoke about not being so ( >>509970
) and about how situations like theirs are disregarded and desensitized by the same people who claim to care about abuse victims
. Calling an abuse victim
"pro-pedo" (or secretly a scrote, a cumbrained autist, the other range of insults anons have hurled) really doesn't make one look like they want to help victims
in any fashion.>>509976>explain to me the rise of DDLG; the romanticisation and fetishisation of incestuous child abuse
Have you perhaps heard of a book titled "Lolita", published in 1955?
DDLG and assorted fetishes revolving around incest, age roles, and family roles have existed for a long, long
time. You can find printed media revolving around these fetishes made within the past several decades. Some anons in this thread are really showing their youth by claiming that DDLG is a "new" "rising" thing.
>>509974>>509970>drawings totally equal abusing a child>cartoons equals real people
No one said this. Ironic that you complain about words being put in your mouth, but do it to others.
If you're fantasizing about children and insisting it doesn't count because they're children that don't exist, you're a pathetic coper.
No one is talking about your retarded shipping wars, either. We're talking about loli and shota.
Many have been groomed using the "art" you're defending, and I know very well what the enthusiasts of such content are like thanks to exposure from a young age, so please don't try to speak on anyone else's behalf about what is "wanted".
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So if someone that disagrees with abused anon was themselves abused, do they cancel each other out?
If we go onto this idea how come nobody goes after shadbase who actually makes porn of real life kids? Re: keemstars daughter
It always seem like people go after UwU non explicit fanartist but never actual problematic
Sexualizing the idea of children in itself makes you pedophilic. >>510000
You make up this argument in your head because you have this need to defend people who fantasize about children. >>510003
Multiple people have gone after Shadbase, what are you talking about? It's always the loli defenders who insist it's all just fantasy who defend him, too.
They were literally trying to speak in plurality in >>509970
using the simple truth of wanting justice in a thinly-veined attempt to hold up their defense of pedo-made art.
Who? Why do you feel the need to try and passive-aggressively attack people over this?
Can you not just accept that people who experience abuse have different opinions? Once more, you're not the CEO of abuse victims
. Please don't try to speak for me or anyone else.
That anon probably hasn't been abused. I usually see weird LARPers try to make it into a point of authority and put invasive questioning on others.
They really think it's a badge.
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Does anyone know what is up with this artist? She always draws her character with black hands and says her hands are really like it and never comments on it again. Also did a video about thinking she had a brain tumor and going though a ton of doctors and claimed that they just didn't notice her black hands. Plenty of comments are asking out is up and she never comments or tries to give vague weird answers. Image attached is a comic joking she is part red panda. Will delete if it is a joke and I'm retard.
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akcnnngn on twitter
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lmfao anon is this tard you? If this is the current userbase of this thread this whole board might as well be nuked right away
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anon will probably deny it's them, and i don't care either way. i just wanted to note that i love artist who list professional sounding words in their bio, when in fact all they draw is basic bitch style bishie characters and instathot tier monster girls in a ridiculously different style.
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Yet another Lavender towne video in which the "not this!" pose looks more original and dynamic than the 'this' pose. Also, when you put in shading, it shouldn't create a crevass in the middle of the EYE. This bitch went to ART SCHOOL for this. It's 50,000 dollars to get a 4 year at the school she attended, for THIS kind of work.
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My ultimate fear is to so good at rendering I just miss obvious mistakes like this. Anon how do I never fuck up like this
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ChiNoMiko didn't improve at all since 2012, I can't believe She's working on 3 games
Kek. anon, I never said you were off topic, I said you were BORING. It's not a deep discussion it's just you and a couple others in an eternal circle jerk of 'no you!' nobodies given a new argument, no-ones trying to have an actual proper discourse, you're all just throwing insults and repeating the literal almost word for word arguments you already stated "it's an image of a child, it's porn" "no it's just an image" "but an image can lead to worse" "but that's not true" "So you're a pedo" "no, but you're a prude" "but-but muh CSA victims
" "but-but muh coping"
On and On and on, without any point since none of you are going to back-down or agree.
Look, this is what I'm trying to say anon. Discussion is when you produce rational, polite arguments about your stance, and then others respond with theirs, and we politely argue minutia. You're not having a high-brow debate, or even a friendly discussion, which would be different and a lot more enjoyable and productive. I'd get involved in that, it sounds fantastic, I love discussions on topics like this, and it's a really good topic from every angle (art, philosophy, ethics, society, cultural differences, it's the whole package). There's so many interesting potential arguments and angles to comb over.
But that's not what you guys are doing. You're repeating the same arguments verbatim, terrified of conceding even one point to the other. You're committing every logical fallacy in the book screaming back and forth while exploring no new ground, while each side gets angrier and angrier and the comments get nastier and nastier. You can't have a good debate or discussion like that, literally, anybody who's actually involved in IRL debate stuff can tell you that. You have to come from a place of rationality and separation of emotion from argument for this sort of thing to work, not something online anon boards are fond of
You're not wrong. We've been covering pen and ink in an art course recently and the teacher made a point to warn us about how the human eye can't physically handle working close up like that for too long.
I'd also say that it's important to put in time on the regular in practicing fundamentals (shape, tone value, figure, etc). It's no different from pianists doing scales or athletes stretching as a warm up. It's easy to get drawn into the cooler more complex stuff and neglect your understanding and effort in the fundamentals.
how do you go from pettily making fun of the discussion to "but i wanted to discuss this, it's all your fault for being so aggressive!". don't preach about "friendly discussion" when you are like that, i especially don't know what you expect of lolcow.
also when one side is arguing for their moral superiority and ego instead of their point, the argument is bound to go nowhere.
The no ovals thing is the stupidest thing I've ever hear. It's one of the most important shapes, you can't make anything decent without it (ellipses anybody?)
Parents, this is why you supervise your children on the internet, so they don't pick up habits from people like this
What I mean is, someone accused that side of that and then the rest of us bought it and continued with that theory. There's no evidence that that side was arguing purely for the sake of having a moral high-ground anymore than there is for the opposite side arguing because they're all pedo apologist weebs.
That's the problem with this sort of discourse. Both sides get invested in being right, and defensive/angry about being wrong or accused of such, and when they get into that mindset they, for whatever reason there are a number, don't clarify their language and meaning, while at the same time the opponents use that lack of clarity to make sweeping accusations and responses that wouldn't make sense if the other sides post had been able or allowed to clarify. I'm sure there's a lot more detail behind arguments on each side, but when you're approaching a debate like that, it all gets thrown out the window
I personally think it's not too clear where it broke down. it wasn't the most cordial discussion in the first place, the first two posters were pretty wound up from the get-go about the topic, and both sides got very defensive very quickly. then one side got hit with the accusation'arguing to have a moral high-ground' and around the same time the other got hit with 'arguing because you're a weeb/pedo/anime defender' and from their the whole thing broke down.
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Whenever he critiques an artist all I can think of is the Chad vs Incel meme, in which he's obviously the incel. Any how he has no right to speak. His rendering is ugly as fuck, he gave up on complex poses for the single insta thot face, and his perspective can get really weird in some pieces
This argument kind of dies when you remember actual lolicon artists like Rustle drew their shit based on actual children.
"It's just drawn" isn't an excuse to sexualize children. If children as a concept alone to you is sexy, then you need to look at your life.
i've seen this shit too many times to not assume it's for moral high ground seeking (especially when these people don't care about real life pedophilia), but i'll admit you are right that we can't say every single person who engaged with the discussion is doing it for that reason.
from my view point many of point brought up by the anti side are stuff that i've seen rehashed so many times, that have been counterpointed by so many different people, that it feels like it really is just being repeated so to reaffirm their own beliefs, and others who agree with them.
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This is the dude doing online call outs
To be fair though, nobody on the anti side said they didn't care about IRL pedophilia, just that this was also an issue to them. it would be a logically fallacy to accuse them of not caring about IRL pedos just because they're arguing against what they are.
It would be like saying that because some people argue about what level of etiquette should be necessary when talking to others online that they don't care about conversational etiquette IRL. It's possible to care about both, and it's completely possible (and likely) that they get just as involved with IRL etiquette as they do with the online side if they care that much about it, but right now, the person is talking about online since that's what the discussion is about.
No one says drawn children are abuse victims
, but it all comes back to this in the end:>If children as a concept alone to you is sexy, then you need to look at your life.
There's just nothing to be sexualized about childhood, being a child or children in general. Anyone who would disagree with that has pedophilic tendencies.
the whole point I brought up lolicon art and fandom was more to put out feelers for different arguments on the subject, and what/how other people are bothered (or unbothered) by seeing these things in art circles. wasn't really aiming to prove anything.
my personal opinion is that these kinds of problems aren't just straightforward 'anime creates pedos/criminals/antisocial behavior' because it's definitely a multifaceted problem. I understand that because vulnerable subjects are involved, it DOES invoke strong emotions, anger, etc. from both sides. it IS very frustrating that we can't come up with a clear answer - not just here in internet discussion - but in cross-disciplinary investigations into the problem.
the studies >>509856
linked use psychoanalysis and statistical data analysis methods to piece together complex human behaviors and patterns that are difficult to make sense of individually. Both articles conclude that there is a relationship between content online and antisocial behavior, but neither can 100% say one causes the other, one makes the other worse, and instead bring up many other aspects of human society, socialization, and sexuality that also contribute to these factors.
I definitely don't think that lolcow is frequented by academic researchers, but it is by people that consume and make art on the internet. and I'm sure those of us who like anime/manga/art have come across content that makes us uncomfortable but for which we're not sure how to maneuver (ex. Range Murata and CLAMP, beautiful art and compelling stories sprinkled with discomfort).
in the realm of art communities, it just bothers me that there are a lot of black and white arguments of 'this person drew giyutan, this person ships shieth, this person drew a child-coded suggestive image == everyone block and report their ass' as if it holds the same gravity as more heinous acts… or works to possibly normalize them. I'm beginning to think that art communities are more emotionally driven than anything to start raising a stink about how this is bad, you should feel bad, everyone look at bad thing and agree with me or you're just as bad as them (ex. "if you follow __ block me", "i can't believe __ is following __, i thought they were better than that"). how kids are shaped by the internet is a serious and complex issue, and I'm annoyed that it's being packaged in such a stupid way. I think as >>509802
said, it's not possible to assume everyone that likes __ is a pedo OR everyone that likes __ understands its real-world repercussions if one was to act on it. instead maybe it's important to make a decision on each individual in your own fandom/art space.
I'm not looking to defend pedophiles/ddlg/etc and explicitly pedophilic art, especially after working with children and knowing people that deal with childhood abuse cases, but more figuring out how art and artists that we frequently see on social media affect us and the rest of the internet. I don't think there's a definitive answer, but I'm tired of the morality police making small artists feel like shit for drawing some stupid fanarts or liking an artist and thinking they're right and changing the world with their call out. I don't think they are fully correct and using guilt and shame to drive small artists out isn't the way to go. but I also could have been missing something, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't also overreacting either.
See and I think that that's a great question that opens up a lot of interesting points and questions . so if it's not a real person nobodies getting hurt, but there's still the question of whether associating sexual pleasure with symbols that represent children could be bad (i.e in the case of someone getting off to loli-porn), or whether or not you think it could potentially lead to something worse down the line (law of diminishing returns). Obviously if you pass by it or read something that happens to include depictions of pedophilia, like reading lolita, or some of Haruko Ichikawa's work that's not going to suddenly put you on the path to pedo. it's an examination of an important issue that's plagued that world for thousands of years. But if someone's getting off to ichikawas work, is that bad/wrong?
Japan has an entire subculture fethishizing cuteness and childishness but does that automatically translate to pedo, or is it just that they don't have the same associations with those things that those in other countries might?
It's a similar line of questioning to whether we should give IRL pedophiles fake child porn or child sex dolls as 'outlets' That also leads to the question of whether just anybody who interacts with that content sexually long term could develop a dangerous or unhealthy fixation with cp/cartoon cp, or if it's like drugs or alcohol and there's a certain amount of previous issues that create a risk factor.
There's so many factors, I'm not sure if it's really possible to boil it down into a simple, is it real kids or not
You both said it well.
Also I agree with that anon who said/ questioned what it is to explore that adults consume fictional stories which sexualize children. To me, that's the thing that makes it uncomfortable: those sexualized children are usually paired with an adult, and the sexual relationship/ overall relationship between those characters is not questioned (that the child might be not feeling safe and is sometimes scared of it). Those children usually cope with it pretty well (at least that's the impression I have) and actually handle the relationship like adults. (Although they might be totally inexpierenced and therefore shy. But that's also a usual trope in sex fiction about adults.) It is just so one-dimensional and totally fitted to the adult experience. All the while it's never really adressed that teenager have to deal with their own sexuality on a whole different level like adults – and they usually explore theirs with peers of their own age. (Although they may fantasize about adult stars they're stans of. But who of you didn't as teenager.) It's never about the children as human beeings, they are only objects of desire. And that is just wrong, dehumanizing someone and turn them into an object.
This. Arguing about the freedom to draw pedophilic artwork and how it isn’t an issue because it is fantasy, boils down to why
do you even want to draw children being molested in the first place. why
do you find the idea of children arousing
I don’t care if anime kids don’t actually look like kids, lolicons are drawn to them because they know that they are depictions of children, and have often admitted that what they find particularly arousing is that they are corrupting what it is typically innocent
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>>510162> Japan has an entire subculture fethishizing cuteness and childishness but does that automatically translate to pedo, or is it just that they don't have the same associations with those things that those in other countries might?
Oh yeah nah, definitely just their culture anon, it’s not like the Japanese have underage idol groups whose target audience is middle aged men, and they sell what is promoted as used teenage girls underwear in gapcha machines. It’s just that their culture doesn’t correlate childishness with children uwu
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Snapshot of actual image from video for reference
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Who is this hack supposed to be, insulting my future husband like that
Why do you draw bloodied bodies and gore? Why do you draw violent art? Nobody really owes an explanation for whatever they draw and nobody has to put up their whole character history up for internet strangers. It's not my business. Maybe they secretly have a torture chamber for kids or maybe they feel the child characters symbolize something they lack from their life. I don't know and sometimes they don't know either. When I was drawing edgy, immoral shit I was in the pits of depression and wanted to have control over something.
The discussion about this stagnates pretty hard at times because some people are talking about pedophilic art being semi-realistic toddler porn, some people think about 16-year old cartoon characters because they're ~minors~. But it's a good example of how policing art is a slippery slope, when you get everyone to agree that drawing loli/shotacon is degenerate and bad you'll get them to agree on all the derivatives as well. When all of the 17-20 year olds in this thread turn 28 and still like the same characters they did 10 years ago and there's a new generation of kids calling them a pedo, they'll know what I mean.
This is /ot, anon, not the board to go to if you’re after milk. As you said it’s artist salt
, the art community being filled with pedo shit is something plenty of people are salty about. If you can’t handle conversations revolving solely around your topics of interest then perhaps fuck off?
For those that were interested, a link to the art server - not an exclusively lolcow one, but it’s a start to help ensure it’s women only https://discord.gg/4A5bdQr
Sage since I can’t remember if links are allowed
>>510324>Nobody really owes an explanation for whatever they draw and nobody has to put up their whole character history up for internet strangers.
Yeah, and nobody is immune to criticism.
If you draw fucked up shit and publicize it, people can and should call you out on it being fucked up.
If you're against this, stay off the internet. It's not a hugbox for all kinds of degenerates, and it shouldn't be. Don't cry about "policing art" when nobody told you to post your shit in the first place.
If anyone has reason to believe you have a child torture chamber or would want one, then they're not somehow wrong in voicing that your work is nasty. No one cares if it's just that you're just ~depressed~ and you somehow can't think of a better symbol for that than kids in sexual situations. Either learn how to be creative in ways that don't make you look like a pedo, or be mature enough to accept and understand the reactions you get for the things you choose to draw.
I don't care about 16 year old cartoon characters because I'm not some Twitter shipper, by the way. The slippery slope argument is tired and disingenuous. We all know the difference between some Voltron characters and the shit in Comic LO. Anyone who pretends not to probably just doesn't like you personally, and is looking for any excuse to come down on you. No one else is convinced they're the same. >When all of the 17-20 year olds in this thread turn 28 and still like the same characters they did 10 years ago and there's a new generation of kids calling them a pedo, they'll know what I mean.
If you had a crush on Dora The Explorer when you were a little kid, and you feel the need to loudly declare you still have a crush on her at 36 years old, things are looking weird for you, and no one is wrong to be creeped out. Sorry.
Who called you a child rapist and tried to "ruin your life", kek? If you get turned on by kids, then you're a pedophile by definition, though. There's no escaping that partt.>just block and ignore!!
Why can't you do the same, then? Stop trying to police people's reactions to content you chose to share. The internet is not your hugbox.
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>>510391>’calling someone a pedophile based on their art is wrong!’ >said artist draws paedophilic content of children being raped and molested, obviously aroused by such content>somehow is not a pedophile
Being a rapist requires action. Being a pedophile just requires the attraction. It's literally that simple.
If someone had an obvious fetish for, wrote stories and/or drew images of dogs (or other animals) being raped, anyone would call them a zoophile. Whether they've actually tried fucking dogs in real life is irrelevant, because it's about the paraphilia itself.
I understand his gimmick is to be ironic but this leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. His criticism about Bucci's gesture drawings and about how it's not his school of thought bothers me. They're gesture drawings not figure studies.
Also his idea about silhouettes and poses confuse me. Isn't the point of using silhouettes is to make a character look recognizable? His characters literally have the same features and look so idk what he's trying to say here.
If it's not actually illegal in their country, and the artists aren't hoarding illegal content in general, nothing can or will happen. It's the internet. People say overblown things all the time, and 9 times out of 10, it amounts to nothing.
If someone does
end up in jail, it's for either (or both) of those two reasons, which means they can only blame themselves at that point.
looking at unrealistic fictional characters is still not pedophilia, nor does it make you into one. if someone can't draw the line between what they enjoy in fiction (even a casual viewer will see a shit ton of violence and murder in most media, which is apparently a "more normal" taboo to depict) vs what they enjoy in real life then they have some serious problems. >>510449
pulling up a definition isn't a counter argument, definitions are usually pretty generalized and only form a basis for the understanding of the word, it doesn't go into details on purpose (also for fucks sake it's literally what onision did all the time in his videos).
Unrealistic in what sense? If characters are clearly meant to be children, and the artists and viewers are imagining them as such and sexualizing them, what makes things not
pedophilic? Remember, pedophilia is attraction to children, not just being an actual rapist. It's not just a simple definition, any psychologist will back this up. It's called a paraphilia for a reason.
Just like anon's image in >>510449
says, this does not exclude drawings of children or fictional children. You're still thinking of children. The fantasy itself is a problem. You have a serious problem if anything relating to children turns you on, period.
Also, it's kind of funny to compare anon's argument to Onision, considering your position is a lot closer to his, given his history.
>>510442>PPL SAY OVERBLOWN THINGS ALL THE TIME GET OVER IT UGH!!!!
There's a very noticeable difference between some petty "this bitch stole my art style" callouts and trying to brand someone as a pedophile because of muh cartoon children. One of them makes the internet scoff for a moment, one of them 100% ruins their reputation forever and possibly traumatizes them and exiles them from the society. I still don't think that drawn cartoon characters amount to actual living, breathing humans at all because they don't even look the same, just like people who think disney animal characters are hot probably wouldn't want to fuck actual lions. >>510486
Did you even read this article or just cherrypick the parts that suit you the best? The effects can be best observed in people with a certain temperament, it's not an universal truth. Of course fiction might feel like the real thing. It's called immersion. There's no denying that. But the intensity of the experience is nothing like real life. You most likely won't be traumatized by watching a thriller. But you could probably be traumatized by a real video of someone being killed on tape. Just because fiction can and will stimulate certain parts of your brain it doesn't mean it's 100% real to you and you know it. A horrible scene in a movie might bum you out for a while but you wouldn't be traumatized
like you would during the real life encounter.
This retarded "but studies say that fiction forces us to do bad things!!" discourse is just a rehash of the "video games/TV/movies cause violence" hysteria from the decades of the past. I can't believe that it's the barely underage zoomers driving it today instead of middle-aged soccer moms who want to blame something else than their shitty upbringing.
If you get turned on by children, you're a pedophile. That's what it means. No psychologist has ever said there's an exception for fictional children. No one's calling you a child rapist, but you are a pedophile. End of story. The people saying you are one are just stating a fact, and they are also free to voice their disgust, because the internet is an open space where we can express our opinions. Feel free to block and ignore those you disagree with, or just keep your more abhorrent interests private. >muh TRAUMA
But you were so into trauma that you were drawing fan art of it a minute ago. >exiled from SOCIETY
If literally all of society has a problem with your pedo fantasies and exiles you over it, the issue is with you. You're literally incompatible with society.>I still don't think that drawn cartoon characters amount to actual living, breathing humans at all
Nobody said this. This is just a retarded lolicon's strawman argument.>because they don't even look the same,
Then explain why multiple lolicon "artists" have drawn shit based on actual children, why so many pedophiles who are attracted to actual children also enjoy lolicon/shotacon, etc.>just like people who think disney animal characters are hot probably wouldn't want to fuck actual lions.
A lot of furries are, in fact, also bestialfags. Remember the Kero The Wolf shit and how it lead to a huge-ass ring of zoosadists?
yea, this convo has been going on for too long and we all know there will be no conclusion reached cus both side want to have the last word. a containment thread is a good idea.
also you just need to go to the top and use the new thread button, it's pretty obvious lol.
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You have to RAPE someone to be a rapist, whereas you have to be ATTRACTED to children to be a pedophile. Very big brained of you
Just call it what it is; fetishisation of rape. Or does it not feel good to think critically about things that make your no no say yes yes?
Tell the world then. What is the obvious, morally correct answer?
And, please, don't take this as beeing snappy. I'm honestly interested. Bc if it's that obvious we wouldn't discuss it. (As in: discuss it with a lot of emotion by some anons.)>>510537
Actually I think you didn't read it, and read a lot into it that is not there. I think you have some bias that automatically makes you nasty to everyone who does not share your viewpoint.
>But the intensity of the experience is nothing like real life.
It's not about the intensity nor is my point only valid
if stuff traumatizes you. I've never said that. I only said (and therefore linked this article) that the things your brain receives and how it reacts is different from this what your mind thinks how you are handling input. And that there are signs that your brain learns from fictional as it learns from real life experience.
So, you're pedo no matter what you think of yourself, when you turned on by real and/ or fictional kids. (Like, there are people out there who would fondly say that they're no racists. But, to give a somewhat recent example, when they see some asian looking people they still back off bc of that new noro virus making its round in China. Totally something a non-racist would do.) That's my viewpoint. Live with it or die mad.
Also, that Chaku Ero thing just proofs it all. What a messed society.
literally this, you guys all post gigantic ramblings that drown out everything else.>>510560>>510561>>510566>>510571>>510573
can you all shut the fuck up? no one cares anymore, you've been repeating the same thing for days. get over yourselves or make a new thread for the topic.
I didn't participate in the "is jerking off to fictional kids bad" debate dumbass >>510573
and why tf are you repeating what >>510571
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All the autists whinging about people discussing things they’re not interested in so fucking cringe.
Thing is, they’re NOT supposed to be on platforms like twitter or tumblr because the rules of the platform forbid them but it doesn’t stop people under like 13 from signing up on crap. Then it goes back to the argument that people online should be the ones policing their content if the possibility of a child should look at potentially harmful content, and then it fucking goes around in circles over and over and over.
Like is the milk really this slow that everyone is rehashing these stupid arguments in the art salt thread over and over?
I was interested and her old art doesn't show her with black hands and feet but she also drew other people with black hands and feet.
I'm going off on a limb and gonna say it's part of her weird half-red panda backstory because she's a redhead and red pandas have red fur.
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>>509918>Most of the people that is anti loli/shota just do it to feel morally superior
That and some actually hurt and creep on kids themselves.> if they cared about child abuse they would stop consuming chinese or indian products made by child slaves. But nah, that actually takes effort.
Sometimes thinking about this shit gets to me. Hollywood is literally right next door which exploits kids- some fat dipshit at Nickelodeon makes underaged children re-enact his foot fetish fantasies (and even blatantly went on twitter to deliberately ask underaged fans for their foot pics). Or Desmond being forced to stand next to murders who just got out of jail etc.
/pointless emo vent
Wow what a fucking scumbag
Personally I think people should be allowed to draw whatever they want - obviously there are going to be people who draw weird/immoral things, and I don't want to see it, but if they want to draw it, fine. But they can't complain when people hate them.
"Minor" is the most retarded buzzword of the century. Like everyone didn't lie about their age to access porn sites and read NSFW fics as an edgy 14 year old.>>511272
All social media should be banned from people under 18, period. Kids should fuck off from all online spaces except their Club Penguin shit or something. These entitled bastards do nothing but cause trouble.
Uh.. this person is 22.. doesn't this mean this person was 16 or 17 at the very most in 2014? I am confusion
Even if it was last year isn't this person still technically 17 in 2014?
He mentions that he's been "running from it for 2 years" in 2019 so his shit probably runs way deeper than this one dick pic only. it also doesn't mention how young the person he sent the pics was, the age gap could've been noticeable. The evidence is disgusting nevertheless, imagine sperging out about "pedos" while sending unsolicited dick beating photos to someone.
The people who most violently lash against cartoon porn often have a ton of skeletons in their closet themselves, they're only covering their own tracks. Not necessarily pedos themselves but have done some horrible crap back in the day. One of my friends turned into a whole ass "anti" having fits against all immoral sinful weeb porn and it just so happens to be that she was the one friend I had who was extremely manipulative, abusive
and loved fucking people up. So you just know there are way more ulterior motives than they're letting on.
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>muh sacred porn! DONT CRITICISE PORN!
Anyway, does anyone know where to print wooden pins like pic related?
No probs. I’m mixed on them but the artist alley international FB group has a file of various widely used manus that they keep very updated, it’s a useful tool if you need a start on some merch since a lot of people get really secretive about certain manus or some are just morally bad, like people tend to go to StickerMule but their CEO is a big trump supporter/asshole and Uline is the same.
Plus all the weird CP Morality Police anons are asleep, might as well be actually helpful about art
this made me realize that this dude's art is all gesture and no anatomy, for example >>510153
. like you can tell kinda what is doing what, but not what is what. the leg in the back is attached on a horrible way, and i have no idea what he was thinking when doing that arm foreshortening.
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>>511568>my own style of pedo
No one said this, pedo is pedo. the problem me and others are having is that loud brainlet highschoolers are trying to LARP as psychologists, acting as an nuisance for all artists when their claims aren't well researched and dubious in general. Especially a subject like Health/Psychology which needs to be handled carefully or else everyone will be miserable when they don't have to.
Look imma powerlevel here When I was a high schooler I got into yuri and thought I was lesbian. Later on in college I attempted a relationship with another girl who was also interested but none of us got anywhere at the end. Realized I got more horny when I saw real life dicks, and wanted the real one in me. So that's why I 100% agree when someone says 'cartoons don't reference your sexuality' because art is about making things look ideal and whatnot.
'3D pig disgusting' is a thing for a reason; I see this as both for keeping things in topic (discuss the animation/comic only, don't talk make it all about your irl irrelevant hi-jinks) as well as a reminder for putting the boundary between fiction and real life.
Also that guy was calling out all artists, not Shadman specifically. If he was shitting on just Shadman, he'd be more direct or bring up shit he did like drawing children that actually exist irl. He may have just brought up 1 Shadman- but his posts weren't 100% for Shad.
If you want to seriously help da childrenz then participate in school speeches/child protection organizations, inform boomer parents about the internet lingos like discord as well as basic safety like "internet never forgets; your posts and pics can be copy/saved by others and it will multiply to infinity so be cautious and not put out personal info" or recommend Parental Block programs to put in the kid's phones or PCs.
>>511670>He wants to be seen as this hardcore badass without boundaries but it's obvious he just really, really likes people to notice him.
Holy shit, I didn't know he was part black. But I always thought this too! He always came off as a try-hard edgelord and I never really bought that he was genuinely into some of the stuff he talked about. Still can't really wrap my head around why some people would publicly associate with him like Oney but eh.>>511672
I agree. Once you bring a real person into it, it's over. With that said, I really wish it was more discouraged to make porn art or porn fics of REAL people like youtubers,kpop idols, etc.
I find it really creepy that strangers on the internet fantasize about you wanting to fuck your co-worker or whoever. And some fans even go out of their way to actually send their degenerate shit to their idols.
It's really fucked. But I guess they may not want to say anything about it so that they can either keep their fans happy or so it doesn't dissolve into some shitstorm drama about policing what people draw. Cuz you know how those go.
the… very first point of my post was that he is a pedophile for sexualising a real child? god, let's not start a "are drawings of real kids in sexual contexts pedophilic or not?" debate.>>511683
agreed, kpop idols are usually heavily stalked anyway, so to even see so much sexual art of yourself with someone you only think of as a friend/coworker must be fucked up.>>511689
the thing is, pedophilia being defined as an attraction of children is for a reason. of course we can say not all pedophiles act out, but real ones always have the possibility. it's a mental illness and untreatable one at that, and i'm not saying we need to have sympathy for their situation, but that they need to seek help to control their impulses, or even fight down the symptoms. you could of course say that loli/shota material can be used to redirect their impulses, but i feel like in the cases of someone really being one it would just fan the flames and draw them to action eventually.
Why are other artists so secretive about where they get their enamel pins made? I’ve talked to a few because I was interested in it and I don’t get any answers. >>511683
RPF or fanart
Yeah it’s creepy but apparently kpop boys seem ok with it from what my friends tell me.
>>511647> someone who draws/likes noncon
Stop romanticising rape. Calling it non-con is trying to make it seem cutesy and fun, if you’re going to defend the desire to sexualise abhorrent things in art then at least call them what they are. Hiding behind smoke screens by using terms like ‘non-con’ and ‘loli’ is disingenuous if you then go to defend the practice.
Non-consensual is literally fucking rape, so call it what it is.
>someone who draws/likes rape
>>511689>this whole definition of pedo meaning someone who's sexually attracted to children seems kind of MAP to me
That's…That's the literal definition. Are you calling all psychologists MAPs?
Sexual attraction to children, including fictional ones, constitutes pedophilia. You can't dodge this.
>>511670>>511674>Though Shad isn't a pedo>I never thought Shadman was an actual pedophile
He's thirsted over actual children. Some of you are not living in reality, I swear to god.
Is it that your internet brain rot has made you think it's okay and normal to sexualize children in daily life, and that the only real pedophiles are the ones who act on it?>It really is ruining the whole 'lolicons are fantasy only' argument.
Masks off, I guess.
Thanks anon, I didn’t want to vent more since this isn’t the place.
Does anyone know of pin makers? From what I could gather a lot get them from China but I was wanting to get it maybe from UK (is that where Zap is?) or US.
How classist of you, to tell people they should research their own manufacturers. [an actual argument I’ve seen]
I’ve got no real skin in this game since I don’t make merch, but I am confused every time this conversation comes up among prominent artists. Merch in general is expensive to produce and distribute, if you want to do it you should be serious enough about it to commit to the trial and error that comes with it— or do research with the numerous creators that HAVE shared their choices.
Let's not start the 'romanticizing rape' thing. Rape/ravishment/noncon has been one of the most common fetishes in both genders since the beginning of the recorded word, probably before then. It's an undeniable, provable fact. It's not indicative of rape culture, or encouraging men to go out and rape women because 'they all want it'. You can call it vile all you want, and that's fine. If it's not for you than it's not for you, but that doesn't make people with rape fetishes rapists. Rapists are rapists.
The term non-con sprang up when autists like you wouldn't stop screeching about how horrible the kink is. It's a separation between a harmless fictional kink and the real-life crime. Take that energy and go rail against the hundreds of thousands of bodice ripper romance novels written by middle-aged women or shoujo mangaka.
"Loli" comes from "lolita complex" which is literally the Japanese word for a female-attracted pedophile. By that logic 'pedo' is romanticizing slang for 'pedophile'.
No one has said that fetishising rape makes you a rapist, but you need to take a good hard look at yourself as to why you find something so disgusting and unforgivable in any capacity attractive. Fantasising about something that ruins people’s lives and training your brain to associate orgasm with it doesn’t somehow make it okay, if fantasy had absolutely no bearing on reality then people wouldn’t act it out >inb4 wahhhh don’t kink shame!!
If you don’t want to be shamed for your degeneracy then don’t upload your fetish work, artwork within the public sphere is fair game
Drawing it for yourself? Fine, I find it degenerate but ultimately cannot stop the actions of others nor enforce my morals onto them, but putting it into the public sphere shows that you are uploading it also for the consumptions of others, hoping that others find enjoyment in the abhorrent fetishisations (incest, pedophilia, rape, racism, bestiality to name a common few) and you cannot expect viewers to hold their tongue unless it is to praise you; the internet is just as public as a billboard advertisement, and people can criticise what they view in the public sphere as they see fit
That’s the thing, they aren’t sharing. And from my initial research it’s really expensive for something that might not pan out. A lot of artists who want to branch out to merch like that can’t afford trial and error at the rate it seems most artist do, or they need a lot of money beforehand to risk it.
I was looking for a better company, not something from China. That may be my only option though. >>511729
I’ve seen enough pin variety that it doesn’t seem like whoever they use would be bogged down by another order. If anything they would welcome more customers.
Thanks anon. I never really think of twitter. I mostly use IG. I’ll check it out.
Is Twitter better for artists now than IG?
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It’s a give and take with both sites. Some people find more success on one than other. With merch specifically, I’ve had a pin manufacturer reach out to me through DMs by just posting a lot of art with minimal related hashtags.
Also, re: pins through local suppliers— wherever you get your merch made it’s very highly likely it will be through China. See this thread— which looks useful and talks about some of the big boys in pin making. https://twitter.com/thisishannako/status/1042808616309350400?s=21
So echoing >>511729
, same points and some people who go to direct to manu don’t like sharing with anyone who isn’t a friend because experience can vary differently from person to person and depending who your manu rep is. I’ve seen two people use the same factory and get different results cuz their reps are different, and sometimes factories can take on too much work or not a high enough MOQ (min order quantity) that the factory goes down in quality. It’s also not really a snobbery thing, like building a relationship takes a lot of work with a manu, especially a foreign one where their English usually isn’t the best, so to be expected just to be given a manu’s contact by some people ignores the work the other person puts into developing that relationship. Plus now that working with Chinese manufacturers is common, some people exploit and treat them like an Amazon and expect like they can do a low MOQ or the highest quality but for cheapest price, so most people also don’t give out contacts cuz what if their manu gets screwed over by some dude who does a chargeback unwarranted and drops your name as a referral?
There ARE alternatives tho so it’s not that secretive really. The biggest one is using a middleman, who has developed the relationship and services already so they can handle all the nitty gritty for you. I use one for my enamel pins and like, as someone who makes them, I feel a lot of people who use middlemen get kind of looked down upon by other pin artists? Like going direct to manu is cheaper sure, but the middleman I use can do a lot on their end, namely quality control and boarding pins, so I don’t have to waste my time like baylee to do it on my own and I can continue to design without worry. Paying a middleman is basically insurance that your shit won’t get fucked up.
Group orders are another and that’s basically a group of artists using a manu in one giant order to save on shipping and costs, they’re more difficult to find and it depends on the individual who runs them (like I’m lucky to find one run by a girl who does file checks, she doesn’t have to). There’s less insurance on this part and sometimes people are shitty but it’s also another way to get overseas merch
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these bitches are making the most basic ass designs and still cant help but trace the ugliest clipart they can find
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Dumb question, but what stops me from drawing a closed species. Do I just get hordes of 13 year old stalking my twitter and DMing 'KYS' or can they actually sue. The whole closed species thing just feels like honor code and I feel a big implosion will happen when some dude who doesn't give a shit about their dumb rules draws them.
People would think you're a jerk, might end up with a callout post, but the only real consequence would be that having some negativity attached to your name might make it hard to get commission work in those circles.
So, no, nothing stopping you.
Thanks for the write up, and to other responses as well. That’s pretty helpful. I did find a middle man (whoever suggested Zap, they have a sister site for only pins now) and that would make me feel more comfortable when buying because I can speak English and the lines of communication will be more clear than if I wrote to someone of middling or no English understanding.
I can see how using a middle-man would be looked down upon but it seems better to have that service which may guarantee better quality in the end.
Another issue I have is with fan art pins. I love them too but how does SE not send a C&D? Like IPs of FF, KH, etc. It would be fun to make fanart pins but that seems like a grey area that could have legal issues later.
I usually go original and I think that would make profit more than fan art but it doesn’t seem to be the case online and at cons.
>>511748>you need to take a good hard look at yourself as to why you find something so disgusting and unforgivable in any capacity attractive.
Oh fuck off. Your tastes and comfort don't dictate what other people should be allowed to post on the internet. Nobody should be expected to keep perfectly legal things 'to themself' just because some triggered
autist thinks it's degenerate. It's not about kinkshaming, it's about overly-defensive fetish police like you wailing as if you go out of your way to look at things you don't like. Your opinions do not matter.
>>512080>calls others overly defensive autists>spergs out this hard at people pointing out their degenerate fetishes are degenerate
The same logic you're trying to push on anon about her opinions not mattering applies to you, too. Also, this "If it's legal, there's nothing wrong with it" excuse is dumb.
Either leave the internet, or get over the fact that not everyone likes your shitty rape kink, and that they're free to say so.
I didn’t tell anyone not to do shit. People are as free to deride your porn as you are to post it. Just because it gives you an orgasm doesn’t mean no one’s allowed to say anything bad.
This anti-kinkshaming stupidity needs to die. People can shame whatever the fuck they want. If you don’t like it, maybe don’t publicise whatever you’re sensitive about instead of throwing tantrums like this at any negative commentary. No one owes you shit, and your feelings are irrelevant.>Most 'degenerates' don't give a shit about your judgment but would like to exist without people like you shitting their pants because you lack the ability to not be a dick about the things you don't like.
And yet, here you are, complaining about an anonymous person's judgment and being a dick about people not liking what you like. No one is threatening your existence, go the fuck outside.
So fan art pins is why a lot of people go direct to manu over using a middleman. Most middleman companies won’t let you do designs of that infringes a copyright of another company and that’s fair since they’ll also suffer repercussions if you get served a lawsuit.
Like, I looked at a lot of the Disney pin culture out of curiosity and people who make “fantasy pins”, unlicensed Disney art pins, will only make a very small amount of them, like they’ve found manus who will make a MOQ of less than 10 sometimes and they’re very expensive so they don’t make a ton of profit. They’re small enough to where Disney doesn’t usually bother taking them down but it’s a risk taken by fan pin makers. Separately, some people will fund through Kickstarter and they’re notoriously lax about letting copyrighted things in, yet companies will find you and issue C&D’s if you tag the characters or franchise, I’ve seen some get taken down completely during or after the campaign and it’s just gonna show as a dead campaign on your creator profile.
She was when she was initially found out about stealing and then blocking people who called her out on social media. But lmao.
It’s still shady AF if she’s still trying to sell shit she stole from people and if she had a lawsuit against her about it then she actually can’t, but hey don’t trace dipshit
It’s not ‘normal’ and ‘healthy’ for someone who is supposed to love you to want to rape you.
Regardless the topic were dubious themes in art, not people’s sex lives(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
Ignoring the countless trafficked and coerced women within the porn industry that are indeed getting sexually assaulted, but studies have proven time and time again that porn is addictive, literally requires the brain, escalates paraphilia’s, and that those that consume it will often re-enact it (that one horrible case of the girl got anally gangbanged and will now have to use a bag to shit for the rest of her life comes to mind), yes, it has in fact lead to an increase in sexual assaults. I’m on mobile so it’s the biggest pain in the fucking ass to cite all the studies, but it’s not pearl clutching to dare to suggest that associating pleasure with rape is a harmful practice - the increase of couple acting out these ‘fantasies’ is proof in itself that fantasy does in fact affect reality, there are men out there who want to rape their girlfriends but it’s supposedly okay because it’s ‘consensual non-consent’ (let’s not ignore the fact that many of these women have been raped and/or molested in the past)
I’m on a ramble now, but plenty of people admit to things like the magic school bus caused their vore, jungle book caused hypno, totally spies caused inflation, all these paraphilia’s that cause dysfunction in their sexuality they were able to link back to drawn media
So yeah, while people can disagree as to whether people should or should not create certain art, anons are being purposely obtuse if they ignore that art and media do indeed affect reality.(Samefag)
NTA but you're pretty retarded. Not everyone who molests children is a pedophile, and that's according to the definition of pedophile being attraction
>Pedophilia is not a legal term, and having a sexual attraction to children is not illegal. In law enforcement circles, the term pedophile is sometimes used informally to refer to any person who commits one or more sexually-based crimes that relate to legally underage victims.
I think this is part of why there's so much semantic arguing. I also get the other side of what anon is saying. If pedophilia is labeled like a sexuality it normalizes it and allows people to victimize themselves. Many people treat it like being gay. People forget it's roots as well it originally was used as a tool against women, not men, in the 1800s.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
Should I just start a paraphilia discussion and debate thread?
It would stop the derailing, but I'm scared it might also turn into some sort of pedo scrote safe space.
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Which one do you prefer when setting up a table - PVC pipes or wire cubes?
I don't care about the argument, I have my own opinions already.
I just don't want pedophiles to think they have a place on this board, or that their views are respected in any way. It's disgusting.
It's already leaked to the PP thread, but it seems to have stopped for now. If it flares up again, I'll just create the thread.(Stop )
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Thank you beloved farmhand.
Does anyone here use watercolor pencils for adding detail? Do you activate them with water afterward or just leave it as is? If you use them for a base sketch, does it ever mess up what you had planned or generally looks good?
Jackson's is having a Faber Castell sale atm so I was thinking I'd get some. Either 12 or 24.
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Stillman & Birn. They have different 'models' named after Greek alphabet letters and are available spiral or stitched. They have them on jetpens. Somewhat spendy
Seconding Stillman & Birn. I love my Zeta sketchbooks. The soft cover one I have lays flat and closes flat without issue. I do pencil, watercolor, and xylene transfers on both sides of the pages and it doesn't show through unless you're holding the page up to the light. Plus, there's next to no rippling with watercolor.
If you want something with no bleed through for markers, then Crescent has a line called Rendr.
Do Zeta sketchbooks hold up well to marker? I love copics but I've yet to find a bound sketchbook I like with them. I tried using the Illo sketchbook for a while, but I found the quality of the paper was nothing like the claims made by every YT artist under the sun.
Rendr sketchbooks are nice for markers, but they're not the best if you like smooth blends. The no-bleed quality of the paper keeps marker ink from blending smoothly. It's nice if you like a more cel-shaded, layered look.
Beyond a colorless AD marker, I don't have much in the way of markers. A test with a brush tip Copic Multiliner shows no bleed through with multiple passes. My best guess is that blending wouldn't be as good as it would be on Paris Bleedproof. The Zeta series is hot press, but it just doesn't have that slickness. Possibly close to what you might get with Bristol paper.
Unless another anon gets back to you before me, I'll try to remember to do a test tomorrow when I have access to some markers and get back to you.
I sometimes do, I have an old set of caran d’ache watercolor pencils and sometimes use water to blend it a little to make it more soft but the colors are a little more saturated than my paints so I don’t go too heavy on it. I do like using watercolors and pencils together, especially the low pigmented ones like prismacolor col-erase and verithins, they blend in with the watercolor very well. Tho now mostly I use the watercolor pencils to do doll face ups since I got into watching them on YT and now just do them for fun lol>>512292
Chris Hong started teaching on Skillshare and I enjoy her approach in portrait since it’s very painterly like and it’s different than people on YT who show how to draw with line instead of value. Two of my favorite artists have classes on skillshare but I haven’t renewed my membership so I haven’t taken their classes, but they’re Victo Ngai and Yoko Shimizu and victo’s is about color and yoko’s is about inking techniques
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This was mentioned in the holly brown thread but TwistedDisaster has a GoFundMe asking for $3k for a new computer that she says she needs for her digital art commissions, but she was just given an iPad from her parents a couple months ago and has been doing most of her commissions on procreate. You literally were just given an $800 iPad to do digital art but you still need $3k so you can do it on your computer too? Isn’t the point of procreate so you don’t need a computer?
She’s claims she is poor, right? A computer capable of doing commissions, plus new monitors, keyboard, mouse, mousepad, and headset would not come to 3k for minimum specs, unless she was buying a screen tablet for the computer as well, THEN you might break 3k. Or she is buying all new parts and building it herself, or she got a quote from some tech-monkey at Best Buy.
Also, she is choosing the stupidest time to get a new computer. PC parts like graphics cards and processors are going to be releasing new hardware after the new consoles release, so buying now is moronic. Wait a year if you want to beg for money for the best stuff.
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Forgot image, here it is
"terrible design" i know her art is shit, but way to make even your fans turned off from it when you show you yourself don't like it. also a lot of people don't have plus sized merch options anyway, no one even would have noticed this "issue" if she didn't point it out.>>512606
yea i even built mine for almost that exact price. i'm just assuming she is getting the disgusting expensive parts and maybe even having someone else assemble. of course she could be just scamming for money in general tho.
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It annoys me when artists, especially on instagram, feel the need to post the same drawing with multiple versions.
I included Creepshow's recent feed(the posts dotted red are what i mean) because i noticed she had a process sketch, lineart, in program, and "finished" piece with the original copied twice.
Is this for more engagement or supposed to be considered a tutorial? cause it looks super lazy.
Depends on what you’re selling and how much space you have. They tend to block your view from the aisle but can be good if stacked higher on the side and above.
I’ve seen both used for prints and shirts and buttons but a stand is better for prints because the table is free for other smaller product.
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Alcohol markers will bleed through. They appear to blend okay, but there is definitely something going on with the sizing in the paper. At first, I thought it might be the xylene I'd used on the other side, but a test on a clean page produced the same results. Purple to peach is on-the-page blending, and brown to peach is tip-to-tip blending. Smaller image is the bleed through. Hope this helps.
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I REALLY wanna know what’s going on here
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Just some pulp art from the 30s of tentacle bondage.
Transfers with Xerox copies make for great, cheap, last-minute greeting cards.
I've tried to, but everything worth actually looking at is behind a paywall.
Not exactly the "free" learning experience they constantly advertise.
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Speaking of greeting cards, do any of you anons sell greeting cards and other stationery?
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Well, Qinni just died. Quite a far bit ahead of the expiration date her doctors gave her. Sad, given she was so young and skilled. Now we have to sit back and watch every other artist and their dog climb over themselves to tweet about how much Qing meant to them for that sweet, sweet post-death sympathy clout.
I hope the poor girl rests in peace. Lord knows she's been through enough in life.
Oh shit! That's awful. RIP.>postdeath sympathy clout
Ugh, not looking forward to that at all.
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How fucking annoying.
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I forgot my screenshot, sorry.
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Damn, she really locked her account over two people telling her that she is an obvious clout chaser lmao
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QinniArt's brother confirmed she passed away recently. So sad…
Judging by his tweets it sounds like she might have just passed away in her sleep. I hope it was just that and she didn't suffer at the end. Even her last tweets are about how weak her body was becoming because of chemo. It's fucking awful and reading the tweets from people close to her really breaks my heart.
There are people defending these clout chasers saying shit like "people grieve in different ways" but if they weren't close to her or had any actual connection to her, they should just shut the fuck up. Even I, a complete stranger to Qinni and her circle, am sad about it but there's no need for me
to grieve. I can't imagine what her family and friends must be going through.
exactly, and i really don't get the "people grieve in different ways!!!" argument. i don't think it healthy to publicly blast your feelings or to not have any other outlet for them.>>513540
i really wasn't engaged with qinni's art, but this shit is really breaking my heart.
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holy shit. It's been only a few hours.
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idk how to feel about this
Loish and everyone else could've at least waited a bit for this. Instead of rushing in on "the latest news" while her death is still trending. Loish isn't any different from anyone else riding the sympathy wave. This isn't thoughtful. It's rushed, so that they stay relevant. It isn't about Qinni. She didn't even bother to write Qinni's name on the piece itself, just "beautiful artist".
I get wanting to celebrate someone who passed away, but I feel like everything is rushed and thoughtless. There's no breathing room or space for anyone to actually think about her. Everyone making tribute art, is just in it for themselves.
I can understand the reasoning why Loish (or anyone) would "draw her feelings" as it were, maybe it's just the halo effect in action but I don't think she had any bad intentions with doing this especially since she has nothing to gain from it. But while it would just be an understandable action from an emotional person, it's still a stupid mistake from a public figure.
At this point, so soon after the death, the only inoffensive image to post would be Qinni's own art and to make it as little about yourself as possible. >>513599
she says she didn't know her well
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Damn, something about even dA tweeting about it hit me hard.
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She's obnoxious. Her followers were all gained from her quirky Nintendo fanart and spamming art share threads multiple times every day. She considers herself as some sort of valuable art mentor who gained an audience through her talents despite being the center of what's effectively a giant twitter cuddle puddle. Now that Qinni has passed away I bet Deepee feels like the only artist around justified in leading a tribute collab. This is only a means to more followers for her.
She's pretty much Becca if Becca weren't as much of a failure. I'm shocked she hasn't tried peddling out reviews and tutorials yet. Those types love trying to teach everyone underneath them.
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Imagine you're daughter dying and someone pm's you this
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fuck is it badddd. And whats the autistic obsession with teeth?
Becca "Nattosoup" Hillburn.
Her thread is >>>/snow/895681
Unfortunately internet artists are basically bot content producers that will draw for a hashtag, they are probably not even aware how it looks when they do this.
However scrolling Twitter, the condolences from ordinary non-famous artists seem heartfelt. And people showed Qinni how much they cared when she was alive too. It would be different if nobody ever mentioned her until now when there's a hashtag.
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Kasey's piece on her new video, did ehe nose slide past her eyes or what
You can definitely create art, video edit and stream on a normal PC with good specs. $500 would cover you imo.
If you want a laptop with good specs, some crazy giant curved monitor, or the specs of a gaming pc you're gonna be paying more for even a self-build. But asking 3k for an art PC is simply misleading and crazy.
If they really wanted to do something for Qinni and her family then why not contact her brother and offer to open a Gofundme for the family so they can use the money to pay for Qinni's funeral or other expenses? You know something useful that would benefit her family?
Oh yeah these fucks don't care.
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but how fast can an artist put out a tribute piece to someone?
Shouldn’t a piece like this take hours or even days to do??
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So a human shaped flounder then?
Depends on factors like time zone of artist, (they may have heard quicker if the time of announcement was closer to sunrise/morning in their area) where they sat in qinni's circle (friend of a friend hears before twitter would) skill level, experience with this kind of artif they work in digital whether or not they have previous drawings with the subject matter in question that they can copy paste from
(digital takes out a metric fuck-ton of the concept/thumbnail/general planning and composition time since you can move things around as you render them). 3-6 hours isn't really a big stretch for such a simple piece with familiar elements. ZHC and TheBoxOfficeArtist have done some crazy things in 24 hours, this would be a lot easier in comparison.
As far as people using her death for points, I think it depends from person to person. I know some people who do post online in response to personal tragedy to cope/as a sincere response, and some who do it for the attention.
If your first thought when something like this happens is to find another human being to talk to/find comfort in, then it wouldn't be surprising for people who either solely have their 'people' online, or don't have people irl who know who qinni is/understands what she meant to them to post to a community that does. I mean, we've done the same thing here by mentioning that she dies right? something sad happened, you go to your community Human psychology is weird, you never know what someone will do.
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Double post sorry! forgot example image (this is what ZHC got done in graphic over 2 hours)
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I was ragging on some of the clout chasing people above too but damn this takes the fucking cake.
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I just can’t take this person seriously. It’s a wonder I haven’t unfollowed them and only have them on mute. Went into their page just to see the spam of ‘qinni’ related stuff and boy I wasn’t disappointed.
I'm pretty amused by everyone in this thread wagging their finger and acting shocked at twitter artists and pretending to be so sad, when qinni announced how little time she had left most people in this thread were speculating how she was a liar and faking for attention. Now all of you want the chance to get angry that others aren't being sensitive to the tragedy. And we all know it's mostly the same people posting in this thread.>>513669
I used to enjoy Kasey's art but it keeps getting grosser and uglier. Her "silly" faces used to be exactly that, now they're sliding off her characters' heads. I wish she would do a hard reset on her style and take a look at her own old stuff as a study. She used to inspire me, now I can't make it through a video or look at the finished product more than a few seconds.
Does anyone know if there's a GoFundMe or something to donate to Qinni's family?>>513788
Not everyone in this thread was trying to make her out to be a munchie, pretty sure most of us are genuinely sad over her passing. I hope the anons who did that shit feel suitably ashamed.
This. Exactly. Some could bee "cloud-chasing", but some could genuinely want to tribute their favourite artist as a condolence.
states. She was well-known when she was alive, one of these most popular YouTube artists. This shit didn't just come out of nowhere. I don't know why you would accuse most of them drawing for her as being disingenuous.
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this girl is an actual fucking retard, i thought this tweet was gonna be about doing this bullshit later, but of course they finish off with "you have a week left to do this, cunt". god, she is insufferable.
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Qinni’s brother is asking them to stop messaging and adding him. People really need to understand boundaries and the fact that her family is going to be mourning for a long while and most likely want to mourn with close family and friends. Not randoms on the internet
It's the reason why I think Loish should have locked the comments in >>513591
and just kept it as a memorial post, it's sweet that her followers care but so many of the comments just seem tonedeaf
Her brother and the rest of her family are the only ones who are really hurt by this - I wonder if they're sick of so many useless comments saying 'sorry 4 ur loss'
I know people are trying to be sympathetic, but this is really a sensitive private matter and has no place on social media
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This one rubbed me the wrong way really hard. "You might know Qinni from the covers of The Rosewood Chronicles"? Bitch, Qinni was an extremely popular artist with over 1mil followers, her popularity went far beyond doing the covers of your stupid teen books that no one outside the 12 yos in your audience care about.
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Can someone start tallying how many “grievances” that TD goes through in a month (aka: how often she asks for money)
That’s an overreaction. The internet causes a lot of people to be suspect when people say they’re ill. There was another artist who did it for clout and it made people less sympathetic as time went on. Qinni wasn’t like that (I didn’t know or follow her) but it’s just how it is online now.
It is sad she passed and I don’t like all these sympathy collaborations. I hope they don’t get off the ground.
A GFM would be nice but I don’t think any of the fans will do that. They’re too young.
it's because it redirects the attention to their art and is a scheme most of the time to get death sympathy clicks. a lot of people started their posts with "i didn't know her but" when talking about her and lot of the "memorial" art was obviously really rushed to get it out as fast as they can.
also most of these people aren't actually that close to her to that they would need to grieve, parasocial relationships don't count.
It is absolutely not an overreaction. If you accuse someone of faking their terminal illness without any hard evidence, you are being a complete piece of shit. End of story. Imagine being a public figure and having cancer, sharing it with your fans, and having assholes publicly voice their belief you're faking it. Sorry, but the person in that position deserves a fuck of a lot more empathy than the cunts wrongly accusing them of being a munchie without proof.
They accused her of faking her cancer and now she's dead. They deserve to be haunted by that fact for the rest of their lives.
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Starexorcist/starpyrate proposed to her boyfriend. I'm confused because I'm pretty sure they haven't even been together for a year and are long distance (have only met once or twice?). I give it a couple months before they break up and call each other abusive and toxic
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They met a year ago, not even counting when they got together they got engaged in less than a year of getting together and have been long distance since. This is going to be a shitshow especially considering how much of a salty attention whore cow Star is and how her bf will realize this real quick
Oh relax, this is a salt board - sometimes people assume the worst. It's not right, but really? No one is going to be 'haunted' by it.
Also, I think people assumed she lied because that at least means she would have survived. It was pretty shocking to learn that she had stage 4 cancer so suddenly. Some people literally couldn't believe it.
No one wanted her to die.
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I hate when people put hashtags in their handle so that every single tweet of theirs shows when browsing that tag
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Okay, from what I’d made sense, looks like TomatoMagica got herself onto another kinds of scuffles again. Here are the summary of the things that she had done so far…
1. She denied a person who asked for a commission because their profile was filled with fetish. https://mobile.twitter.com/sayoriisgay/status/1221136846727663617
2. Why are men
The discussion is yours.
people who act like this kinda of tutorials is "telling people what to draw" are fucking fragile idiots. but the "why are men" comment is pretty dumb and basically asking for drama.
also this person was clearly asking for something that's a fetish to them, and worded their first message really weirdly, like it sounds like those fake scam emails artists get. but the artist could have just avoided this shit if they simply said no to the guy.
1. To be completely honest I would be, as a woman, very uncomfortable drawing chubby girls for someone with a fat/inflation fetish, it would feel like they're roping me into their fetish play. However she could've just refused that she's not interested in drawing that particular commission and that would've been that on that, but she had to go and be immature about it. Even worse if the user wasn't a actually fat fetishist. I mean I've had creepy dudes ask me for art on some really gross fetishes and it does creep one out but it's not hard to just ignore or tell them no without being a cunt because it'll come back to bite you in the ass later down the road.
2. I've seen this "did u know men draw balloon anime tiddy wrong!!!!" take so many times it's boring, everyone knows that a suction cleavage with gravity-defying tits is done wrong but who really cares. It's as tired as repeating how unrealistic Barbie's proportions are, it's just petty and reeks of fishing for quick RTs.
I took a quick glance at her work and she's a decent artist but also engaged to a "nonbinary" man with full on beard and moustache, yikes
Fucking lmao, this is so mild, why are people losing their shit over this.
‘She should’ve said no nicely!!!!’
She wasn’t even mean? Abrasive, yes, but women and artists alike aren’t obligated to be nice to fatty fetishising neck beards, how utterly pathetic to call someone out over something so mundane and petty
As for the balloon titties;
Stay mad, cumbrains
I don't like balloon titties either but I think people should get to draw however they want. Why get so worked up over how somebody draws something?
She doesn't deserve being called out though.
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Samefag, but why should any female artist be nice to losers who commission artwork like this
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Pic of them from last year. Love to see anons wking and saying he's CLEARLY a woman