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No. 2138490
A surprisingly contentious topic which has finally proven itself worthy of its own thread. This thread was created to take heat off of the main Fandom Discourse thread, and focuses specifically on any common fandom debates that can be narrowed down to a basic male versus female dynamic, such as:
>Ratio of female to male character fanart and fanfics in fandoms. >Waifu to husbando ratios in anime and gacha games. >Alleged lesbophobia from yaoifags and homophobia from yurifags. >Any theories, spergs, or tinfoils you have about character gender preferences in media and fandoms. …In addition to anything else that fits the theme of pitting fictional men and women against each other. Have at it.
Main Fandom Discourse thread:
>>2123876Fujo vs Anti-Fujo Thread:
>>1978406(Note that this thread is much broader than the fujo versus anti-fujo thread, as it is not limited to the topic of fujoshis).
Fujocoomer Cringe:
>>1959358 No. 2138519
File: 1723782678949.png (4.74 MB, 2048x1448, Stone_Ocean_Anime_Main_Cast_(K…)
I'm still seething about this. Also what happened to Claymore many years ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but straight women don't like action-driven stories (call it shounenshit) about women. If it's action it has to be men, and if it's women it needs to be romance. It seems like such an underappreciated niche. Wonder if there will eventually be action-josei (kek) in the future.
No. 2138521
>>2138512based
btw some Korean manhwas do the whole female seme thing
No. 2138558
>>2138519They do! Action shojo used to be big (Basara, for example). I hate that shonen devoured it because girls are willing to read action with a male MC and identify with men while the reverse isn't true.
>>2138547KEK same (Orihime Inoue..)
No. 2138567
>>2138542In a sort of different situation, I don’t get why some feel the need to bash another female that’s written fine, yumes and fujos a like. They’ll rewrite her into being
abusive while completely changing the personalities of their m/m pair (I have to wonder if it’s self insertion at times) or 2D crush and I just want to know why? This happened a lot way back in the late 00’s but I see a few strays here and there in the fandom sometimes.
No. 2138575
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>>2138567honorable mention of the batcrap insane bitch that translated Sadistic Beauty
No. 2138581
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>>2138565If you ever wanted meticulously drawn ryona Utena/Rose of Versailles, Innocent/Innocent Rouge is for you.
No. 2138585
>>2138554Antifujo thread number 3.
Sort of sad that a thread that could have had a decent thing say about female characters is still centered around male characters and fujoshi, just this time its a competition.
Not even anything about female characters in the OP.
No. 2138599
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Why can't we have nice things anymore?
No. 2138694
>>2138542>but no, can't have thatIdgi, why can't you have that? What's really stopping you? Do you think other women never got ridiculed and shamed for seeing more to a male character than what they were? They just moved on with their vision. So many people deviate from the canon, they just keep interpreting what they want to. You
can do that.
No. 2138720
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Why do some women who obsess over female characters feel that they are ohh so superior to those icky fujos/yumes? I especially observe this in entry-level fanbases like shonenshit and gachaslop. Some of them talk as if they are the modern-day equivalents of the suffragettes for liking waifu characters. They treat fanbases like Olympic events where they need to prove that they are better than the women who prefer male characters. Scrotes that are into bland, butt-naked waifu characters don't have to provide receipts to prove why they like the bland waifu over the bland husbando character. But women get trashed everywhere for their preferences. And I say this as someone who has been into yuri since the days of NanoFate and Shiznat. Many of my all-time favorite characters are women - Cibo and Sanakan from Blame!, Higuchi from Freesia, Watashi from Jintai, Glados, Shodan, Integra, Lady Maria, Balsa from Moribito - the list is endless. But no it is never enough - you need to like and appreciate the half-naked bland waifu character from gachaslop that has been designed by a scrote otherwise you are an incel moid suffering from Whore Madonna complex.
No. 2138734
I feel like yumes really get weirdly stuck in between both fujos and himes. Of course I'm saying that as a yume myself, but my fellow yume friends, especially with gachaslop we enjoy, will use the female protag as yume stand in. Many yumes I follow will very much develop the self-insert protags into something to their own liking or even make a separate character all together.
>>2138720Not gonna lie I mostly just think it's really funny when I see young zoomers talk about how generic yuribait for men characters is totally amazing lesbian representation. I have 0 issue with them shipping it, or even the characters themselves, but it's funny how many will deny up and down how the characters weren't developed for male coomers first and foremost.
No. 2138760
File: 1723800825871.png (1.39 MB, 3928x1447, i am bad with words here is a …)
I don't care if women like coomslop characters like sonico, but i am so tired of so many women justifying their shit taste with ''muh misogyny''. I get that so many women have a high tolerance for coomer slop because its in almost all pieces of media and we have become desensitized thanks to it, but why do so many weirdos get angry at women who dont want to tolerate coom shit to like female characters?
despite claiming that disliking female characters is misogynistic, they always end up siding with men who dont see women as human, instead of with women who are tired of the constant sexualization women face daily. I am tired of finding the people behind the ''strong feminist female characters!!1'' everyone shills is always degen moids. ALWAYS. Meduka? made by a team of lolifags. Motoko? drawn by a hentai artist. Le ''based manhating'' makima? drawn by a scrote with a mommy dommy fetish, ofcourse. I just don't want to indulge in moid's fetishes anymore, i am tired of it and it disgusts me too much.
No. 2138775
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>>2138760didn't read but
>coming at anyone's "shit taste">gojo dakilmak
No. 2138781
>>2138513Yall nonas sperg too much about this stuff. The reason why women like omegaverse is because they want to enjoy their
abusive ships but they cant have it with het couples because
1.If the moid is
abusive toward the female character it wont feel right
2.They arent interested if the female character will be
abusive/top, plus they cant stand it when female characters arent morally pure
No. 2138783
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>>2138519Action-driven josei almost always has romance or romance-bait.
>>2138554Yeah, but I bet this thread will stay, because mods can't be impartial and locked my thread on /m/
>>>/m/398695 No. 2138802
>>2138795What is annoying to be is that tiktok bitches will hate on "booktok girls" but you just know they read the same
abusive shit but in yaoi
No. 2138808
So funny that this had to have it's containment thread.
>>2138554They probably just dislike the "infighting" but I hardly see anons peacefully agreeing in fandom thread anyway.
No. 2138813
>>2138795I wouldn't say I love reading about women being abused but I do think that it can often feel cathartic or relatable to read a book where the male lead is a piece of shit. I can't really get into those romance novels where the characters are perfect and so far away from their real counterparts. In real life scrotes are usually ugly and
abusive, so if you read a book and he's hot and
abusive it's just one step away from reality, if that makes sense, kek. But I also don't often read that type of book to begin with. I'd just rather read any other genre than romance.
No. 2138822
>>2138760Cute cartoon propaganda.
>ALWAYS Meduka>>2021382>>1988629At least pretend to lurk.
No. 2138890
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>>2138788NTA - I don't know if Mami's design fits into the loli archetype but her character designer, Ume Aoki is a weirdo who admits to staring at high school girls irl.
No. 2138891
>>2138883Me disagreeing with you doesn't make me a man.
>>2138885Because they're retarded.
No. 2138898
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>>2138519Claymore is kino, I like action driven stories about women but only if it's well written.
>>2138530What is this
No. 2138903
>>2138896Nobody's saying "it's superior", it's just how it is by lolcow standards: no female sexualization and objectification committed by male coomers and pickmes, no male trannies waving their dicks around. It makes people insecure about their own fandom seethe and take it as a personal offense which is why they constantly have to grasp at straws to infight about omegaverse because their ultimate gotcha is that fujos ackshually are super misogynistic because the beta is totally a female stand-in, as if omegaverse wasn't the butt of the joke among most fujos and a niche genre most people don't even take seriously to begin with, and as if its heterosexual counterpart wasn't way more popular in straight
normie booktok circles. The essence of fujoism, i.e. being free of male gaze, makes people not into it jealous and angry because they can't have the same experience with their preferences, as we've already seen multiple times in discussions like "reeeee why does this m/m ship have more fanfics than my f/f ship".
No. 2138908
>>2138783basically every genre has romance or romance-bait.
>>2138519>Correct me if I'm wrongYou are wrong, but I'd love to know why you think that. Very strange.
No. 2138912
>>2138896Nice lie, nona. This whole thing started when a hime admitted in her own words that she deliberately infiltrates yaoi spaces while knowing that she feels ‘jealous and bitter’ towards female fans and their male characters
>>2137169, followed by a nona telling her to stop purposefully looking at stuff that upsets her
>>2137508, followed by OP turning nasty and calling her a ‘gaslighter’ and ‘moid worshipper’ just for telling her to stop deliberately
triggering herself
>>2137516. The receipts are right there, we can all read.
No. 2138921
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>>2138903I will always know that fujoshism is right and true because it makes every living being under the sun angry for no reason and that’s how you know, as a woman, that you’re succeeding in life. No one wants to see us happy and thriving, even other women. All this anti-fujo moralfagging is motivating me to churn out some hot male anatomy studies. Thank you, nonnies.
No. 2138932
>>2138921Based, think I'll spend the rest of the day doing the same. Good luck and kisses
nonnie!
No. 2138942
>>2138912Accept its not a lie, but nice attempt at nitpicking and ignoring the entire discussion before it.
It actually started with this Dungeon Meshii interview
>>2135038In Which anon responded with this
>>2135738Which led to a few more replies
>>2135759 >>2135762
>>2135899 >>2136194
Which unsurprisingly, led to this comment by a fujo
>>2136235And this
>>2136356 >>2136584
>>2136604 >>2136666
>>2136736Which also led to further discussions in the fujo vs anti fujo thread
No. 2138971
>>2138961Himejoshi deserve nothing because they keep making these shitty antifujo threads instead of talking about what they like.
Thread is called "male versus female characters" but the only female talked about are fujoshi.
No. 2139004
>>2138978>>2138984I've believe it if there was some small attempt to talk about female characters.
You can talk about female archetypes vs. male archetypes, what men like vs. women, the difference in romance, how female protagonists are treated but no, it's obvious that people aren't interested in doing that because they'd rather talk about omegaverse.
No. 2139021
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coming back to the actual topic instead of this becoming the antifujo 0.2 thread, i still find it perplexing even though there are many female sculptures they never tend to make figures catered to women but always men? Ayumu Hamano is only of the few rare cases that makes figures solely catered to women( and even that causes issues to some moids calling it "gay")
No. 2139022
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>>2139004Ill even add something, I've seen this complaint around but I agree with it, when it comes to yuri versus yaoi/straight horror, I find that yuri tends to play it a lot safer and have an "on and off switch" where something scary happens but then the next couple of chapters are nothing but cgdct styled fluff
While this does sometimes happens to with other forms of horror, it's hard to find any that drag it oas commonly as yuri does.
No. 2139024
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>>2139021Men are the embodiment of this meme, that's why. Especially nerdy ones because they've been coddled and pandered to in their fandom spaces for decades.
No. 2139032
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Ok i have a question to all the wise nonnies and I hope this makes sense.
Is it possible to have a female character that fangirls will obsess over for them being obviously cool.
I don’t buy the argument that they don’t do it because most are het, there are some characters that both fanboys and fangirls obsess over but for different reasons. Fanboys obsess over mostly male characters and sexualise female chat actually. Fangirls mostly ignore female characters. From my experience but it could he because of how they’re written and that they’re just less interesting
The closest female character I can think of was Melenia from Elden Ring
No. 2139045
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>>2139032I've seen women fangirl over girl character, mostly in anime idol fandoms like Love Live and Idolmaster tbh. I don't know what it is but girl fandoms for idol series are pretty intense. Also occasionally elsewhere like Haruka from Sailor Moon, Haruhi from Ouran, and a few Touhou character here and there.
No. 2139050
>>2139042It's still m/m lol. You trying to cherrypick what m/m is and isn't doesn't change the fact that is all falls under the same category.
>>2139040The fact that some of you are into it doesn't disprove my point. It's still a part of your community.
No. 2139071
>>2138860What always gets me is the black-and-white thinking. Some of us like BL and GL, cute bishes and sexy female characters. It's not mutually exclusive.
At this point i wonder if these fandom clit size contests aren't an excuse to sperg about their one and true love: moids. Moids like it, i don't like it. I'm better than moids, she's just like a moid, my cartoon porn taste is moid-free, moids, moids, moids. It's their own way of finding a kind of negative intimacy with men, even when they're not in the (figurative) room. I despise troon yurifags as much as anyone else but i would love to discuss manga/anime without constantly facing a 'MOID' shaped wall, without being reminded that troons are into manga like the rest of us. I don't care that much about males when they're not interacting with me. I just don't. Somehow these anons can't imagine being indifferent to repulsive males and choosing to like a certain genre anyways. They will even act like BL is the only genre with female authors that truly caters to women because moids don't read it (spoiler: they do. There are heaps of troons LARPing as fujos now. They're onto you.) The fact that they think often about how somewhere on earth, a moid might come across the manga they like and that it
bothers them is pure mental illness
No. 2139077
>>2139032Yes, but it depends how sexual/moe is a female character is allowed to be in a story.
I've seen more than one author admit that if they want to write a divisive female character, they make their boobs bigger so they don't get as many complaints.
No. 2139096
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>>2139032I like women who fulfil the comic relief himbo role that would usually be given to a dumb male character. They’re stupid, but not in a misogynistic way— they behave like an overconfident ‘dudebro’ while still being obviously female. I wish there were more examples.
No. 2139174
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Omg I just started watching Princess Jellyfish and holy shit its literally the embodiment of what i was always looking in female characters. Just a bunch of retarded autistic women hang out together. And they even have a conventionally attractive girl who is also going to hang out with them i guess. I always wondered why there is so little representation of female characters like this but then I realized this anime aired in 2010 and i only know about it because someone mentioned it in on this thread today. And have been into anime for a long time. So i guess no one likes this type of female characters but me. Sad.
No. 2139194
>>2139190Very few people actually do, tbf.
A lot is just complaining about shit they see on twitter.
No. 2139198
>>2139193Thanks! ♥
>>2139191Im glad to know it!
>>2139195Kek i guess i was just living under a rock. So cool to know that. I am content now.
No. 2139207
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>>2139112Hi3 falls into this weird niche where having a female-only cast since day one actually forced the moid creators to diversify the ladies’ personalities in the absence of a scrote-insert MC and give them some depth to bounce off of each other and actually entertain the player. It’s a shame it’s dropped off since Part 2 released, but alas, scrotes’ gonna scrote. The cast of Part 1 will live on in my fujo heart forever.
No. 2139222
>>2139212So what if it's being used if they're just going to repeat it in the other threads anyway? You think the omegaverse OP will gets nonnas to not bitch about omegaverse in the threads they already had?
It's still a pretty useless thread.
No. 2139236
>>2139226Now this sounds like complete absolute bullshit.
The fandom thread this was a spin off of was seriously complaining about omegaverse and this thread started with sperging taking it seriously
>>2138504>>2138513 No. 2139237
>>2139230I think it felt slightly rushed, yeah, but I understand the choice to
leave it ambiguous at the end whether Kuranoske and Tsukimi got together, because the story isn't really about that. I disliked all the shit with the older brother, though. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I thought he was way too pushy with his proposal and such. He never deserved her, I feel like it was obvious that he wouldn't end up with Tsukimi. I liked how the manga was critical of wastefulness and fast fashion, and I also like the Indian girl who gets introduced later on, she was funny.
No. 2139241
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>>2138995Fujos say all that and then simp for moid wish fulfillment characters written by real life perverted misogynistic moids while lining the pockets of said moids. "You don't care about real life women only cartoon ones" says the fujo as she buys her Nth JJK/naruto/kny figurine while sneering at female otomeslop creators, who are real life women. Make it make sense. Sure, they're not sexualized, but you're still glorifying vapid, self-aggrandizing moid slop. And don't start with the le I'm actually a based man objectifyer who's making an ebin political statement, we can all see the 5deep7u analysis cringe you write on twitter and tumbler about your "babies". You're owning nobody, especially not when you consoom moidslop that knows you'll shell out the shekels if they throw you the tiniest BL bait bone, all while despising the shit out of you.
(fujo vs anti-fujo outside of containment) No. 2139246
File: 1723829676883.webp (54.29 KB, 1280x720, iwanttokillhim.jpg)
I fucking loathe that scrote though. When it was revealed he is a man I suddenly didnt like the character anymore. Its a feeling akin to jealousy, i just know all the girls will be falling over from their love to him because women are just this way, they see a feminine scrote and will die for him because they cant control their brains when they see one. Then i think, normie women probably see female characters the way i see male ones and that is why they loathe Makima. Not because she isnt morally pure but because moids love her and their lizard brains call for the jealousy and hatred.
No. 2139257
>>2139251He's still widely known to be a woman hating faggot and fujos basically pay him. Besides, other examples would be, like, literally everything.
Like the poster above said, just quit anime instead of acting like you're the only one not supporting disagreeable authors and media because buttsex.
No. 2139258
>>2139241Really feeling the appreciation female characters here.
No wait, it's just more women hate.
No. 2139262
>>2139257I just barged in, talked a bit about Princess Jellyfish, replied once about JJK and you're telling me to quit watching anime. I assume you're thinking about another anon because I've seen other posts telling other anons to stop watching anime.
>He's still widely known to be a woman hating faggot and fujos basically pay him.Good for him, fujoshi are grown women and do what they want with their own money, if they want to buy official, expensive matching satosugu themes pajamas
not even joking, they exist and slippers I won't stop them, it's not my job.
No. 2139279
>>2139269>fujoscoldingWhenever I see those posts, half of the time they're the same that bitch about shit like
>>2138513 and
>>2139241 too.
Like, no shit, where do you think you are? Of course nonnas are going to complain about waifubait, pickmes, and women living incorrectly, more than some bland male.
No. 2139289
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>>2138898I kinda hate the shoehorning of Raki's retarded "he can fight awakened beings now!" arc into it, but I suppose a moid insert was needed to continue printing in, what was it? Ultra Jump? Either way, I just ignore the parts I don't like and I'm glad he feels like a second thought. Claymore is a masterpiece and I would murder my firstborn for an official spinoff, either a prequel or something about the mainland.That's Marie Josephe Sanson from Innocent Rouge, a manga about the Sanson executioner family in France. Probably one of the most beautifully drawn works that currently exist.
No. 2139294
>>2139279Fujos: all you do is complain about women
Also fujos: no shit we prefer to complain about women
topkek
(fujo vs anti-fujo outside of containment) No. 2139295
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>>2139280I will take the bait but do you think that the average male waifufag/yurifag is a philogynist? A pussy worshipper perhaps? They vehemently despise 3D women. Picrel is how the average waifutard thinks. Maybe it is the same way for yaoifags. What is so wrong about being into 2D men while despising 3DPD?
No. 2139304
>>2139294I pretty obviously meant this site as a whole.
Unless you think this is a fujo site, pretending to misunderstand what I say is just obnoxious.
No. 2139318
>>2139255>Japanese fujos write omegaverse as wellI'm aware. The conversation was specifically about the origins. Note how other anons brought up Supernatural.
>why the distinction?…because that's what the conversation was about. The origin of the trend.
No. 2139357
What's up with some of these overdramatic, seething anti-fujos? Acting as if most fujos despise female characters and support misogynists and their coomerism? When I read yaoi, I don't go into it with a feminist perspective. I just want to see two (or more) hot 2D men having interesting or conflicting interactions and having steamy sex. Like, there's nothing more to it? I will read something hetero every once in a while, but even when it's marketed toward women, it still tends to be male-gazey by mainly focusing on objectifying the female characters (and as a straight woman, that doesn't appeal to me). It has typical misogynistic tropes and gender roles that get tiring too quickly. Yaoi, on the other hand, has better visuals since it focuses primarily on pretty male characters, and it has more equal power dynamics, which makes for far more interesting interactions (to me). I'm also one of those fujos who don't really enjoy effeminate ukes or macho semes. Yes, yaoi can have similar toxic power dynamics as straight love stories, but since it's two men, I don't really care; it actually makes it better kek I do love stories with interesting, unhinged, and morally ambiguous female characters but they tend to not be romance-oriented.
No. 2139359
>>2139343So let me get this straight, the ones screeching here about how you're evil for liking big booba objectied sluts drawn by coomer moids are
tifs? You know what, that makes perfect sense actually.
No. 2139377
>>2138797Honestly, only after looking at it through the blackpill lense, the widespread love of yaoi started making sense to me.
>>2139295Actually, yes, it's similar, except even more pronounced, topkek
No. 2139424
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>>2139246Food for thought from /m/ nona.
No. 2139477
>>2139404Have you seen people actually talking about it?
Even JJK husbandofags are
>yeah it's shit and the author sucks and I'm going to pirate everything, I just think he's hot.Like damn, why do people think fujos are buying fucking everything when it's not like these characters even get figures to begin with.
No. 2139537
>>2139477Indeed, I wonder why shounenslop authors even bother begrudgingly tossing fujos a bone when they're apparently pirating everything, totally nonchalant and uninvested, unbothered, moisturized, just want to coom, etc. Sounds like
triggering your main male audience for the purpose of getting $0 from these insanely cool, uninvested, low BMI, normie neurotypical women who have no extensive online presence dedicated to overanalyzing the complexity of 2d men.
(infight bait) No. 2139544
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>>2139531I can believe that all moids are paedophiles, but I genuinely think women who like shota aren’t really into kids. They all have a copy paste obsession with that one ‘schoolboy’ trope with the shirt, suspenders, shorts, garters and polished shoes. How is that any different than the typical moid’s high school waifu? Not a shotafag but I will never equate the two. Shotas look like the male version of your average underaged anime girl whereas lolicon feels like a moid trying to recreate actual toddler CP.
No. 2139547
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>>2139174>>2139209>>2139246>>2139193I liked princess jellyfish, but it has some very "japanese" tropes that I absolutely despise
>the crossdressing male not only effortlessly passes but is also more beautiful than the women.>the beautiful halfu >said halfu always having a foreign mother for some fucking reasonI just wish japan was at least 25% more in touch with reality
No. 2139551
>>2139547I just want more gnc male characters, preferably in a very
toxic relationship with a gender conforming man…
No. 2139556
>>2139537What bone lmao?
I'm serious, what bone has the JJK author has thrown to the audience?
No. 2139560
>>2139554Western fans of every caliber pirate everything, whether because it's impossible to easily buyfag or because >Westerner mentality. That's partially why Japan doesn't bother catering to them. They don't pay the bills.
Japanese fujos absolutely buyfag like crazy and eat up every sliver of slop tossed their way.
No. 2139575
>>2139565I wonder what's going through the moid creators' brains as they hold their noses and insert fujo bait into whatever seasonal shounenslop. "Yeah we need more money, just give them some half assed romantic tension glance or whatever, they'll buy anything".
>>2139569Fujos don't even get proper figurines and male otaku are known for withholding shekels at the sight of anything minimally
triggering, so I think the generalization is dishonest. Fujoshi will absolutely spend more for a lot less pandering, which is kinda sad.
No. 2139599
>>2139592Kekk
>>2139596Yeah, that was the usual consensus on shotafags before, could be actually used as a harmless pervert trope and it'd be quite relalistic with those women.
No. 2139606
>>2139547this is why I always make sure to read up on summaries of every piece japanese media I’m mildly interested in (spoilers be damned). nonna here
>>2139573 has the right idea
like I came across this japanese game(astlibra revision) that seemed fun, but of course, it had to have
>every female boss is semi-naked(or fully naked)>crossdressing young boy(the mc is stated to be more beautiful then the women)>weird subplot of a sister dying and choosing to reincarnate as her brother's lover>scorte pervy humour, like the male characters watching the girls bathing this could have been a great game, but it was ruined by this weird japanese degeneracy! and this has been my experience with japanese media so far and it's genuinely infuriating
No. 2139608
>>2139580I remember 10 years ago on tumblr when "well written female character" meant specifically a super serious female character with no personality and a backstory that's not too tragic who was physically stronger than everyone else in the story to avoid
problematic implications. So if you liked a female character with believable or relatable flaws or a female character who happen to have a crush on a male character you'd receive anon hate. But characters like Mikasa were worshipped because "omg she has abs you guys!!" when the first season of AOT was airing. I see things haven't changed.
No. 2139630
>>2139032Ive been part of eastern and western fandoms since i was much younger and i think western live action “fandoms” have more examples of this. I just got recommended the gossip girl sub on plebbit and they post the female equivalent of Walter white badass moment compilations about Blair Waldorf. She definitely wouldn’t be a “lolcow approved” feminist female character for many reasons and the actress carried the character through season after season of ridiculous plotlines. But I do think that most Blair fans
>are women>don’t use her to self-insert >ship her with other characters keeping her as the main focus in the relationship, if that makes sense>explicitly like her because she’s a snarky rich bitch who pulls off ridiculous schemes>keep moralfagging about her mainly to a minimum>if moralfagging occurs, typically it’s in defense of a less popular female character like Jenny or Vanessa, or because she was too easy on a moid Also I know it’s a bit ridiculous to call this show’s community a fandom and I’m probably gonna get burned at the stake for mentioning it on lolcow, but women still love the sex and the city characters to this day. Most fans have one character they relate to the most and therefore viciously defend, but I enjoy community discussion about the character’s actions in love and in friendship. Same goes for Girls: though the fan base is much smaller.
No. 2139631
>>2139621At the time it was also praised because it's something relatively rare in anime. Like "Yay, at least some body diversity compared to the millions differently shaped men"
>>2139623It honestly drives me insane now that I'm older and have been in more fandoms. Stripping down complex characters like that feels so pointless, are they even fans of the source at that point or do they just like the way characters look?
No. 2139651
>>2139631>Stripping down complex characters like that feels so pointless, are they even fans of the source at that point or do they just like the way characters look?I think they just like being in a fandom, in niche fandoms I'm in (even if they're old) don't get hit as hard with the tropification beam because they are genuinely fans of the characters and the story for years or even decades, meanwhile niche fandoms I was in and then became trendy haven't managed to recover and the tropified characters and characters in meme template became the new "standard" and if you don't portray them that way you're
problematic.
Although that I think about it yeah you're right about the characters look, so many tiktokers got into south park just because of the designs ignoring their actual personalities, and so many artists end up with OC's very similar to their fave of a past fandom and with an OC gang of the tropified past fandom characters doing wacky shenaningans or meme.
No. 2139655
>>2139632what's funny is that half-white japanese people are overrepresented in the japanese entertainment industry, so they know what actual halfu people look like, but
>>2139653 is probably right, it's just fetishism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_h%C4%81fu_people#Entertainers No. 2139769
>>2139000Legal texts need clarity and specificity that even normies can understand, otherwise it's unenforceable. It doesn't matter what
I think as terminally online weirdo, what matters is whether normies can understand and easily make decisions based on the text of the law. Even our own farmhands have made mistakes when trying to enforce the shota ban (which I support for the record,) because there are situations where it genuinely isn't clear.
No. 2139788
File: 1723862122231.jpg (2.18 MB, 4096x4096, eHYzlg2.jpg)
So…does anyone want to actually share their favorite female characters? It can be from any media, live action or otherwise? I'll start with mine, though I can already hear the various accusations being thrown at me due to some of my choices lol.
No. 2139865
In regards to yaoi, I genuinely think it is as simple as voyeuristic desire to experience a narrative. If there is a female I will try to relate or project even if I don't want to, it's not conscious. Male characters are to me like little puppet dolls that I watch and experiment with and it will bring me the least discomfort. Plus, believe it or not, most women are attracted to men, so it makes sense liking male on male stories since they are not gonna be relatable the way the female character is. They are there as pure eyecandy, even if not inherently female gazey, just as something we can look at and project onto it in a controlled and controlling way, much like how men do to women. In regards to all media, I usually have more women characters I like because I probably pay more attention to women around me (I have way more female friends, my family and relatives are mostly women, etc). Plus, I don't think I have many favorite female characters I want to fuck (maybe because I project onto them and because ”sexy” female characters are made for moids gaze), but almost all the male characters I like are fuckable to me.
All that being said, I personally read more BL, porny or not, simply because there's more of it. I've read a shit ton of GL but it's way harder to find good ones that aren't made for moids to see 2 oversized pairs of titties, and yuri bait with no prospects of ever happening doesn't count. I can read a bunch of bad yaoi and it will be a better experience than reading bad yuri.
I'm a bit sleepy so I might be yapping too much, but I've been quite invested in this topic these days so I appreciate if anyone wants to say otherwise and discuss about it or add in more perspectives.
No. 2139866
File: 1723868658510.png (216.04 KB, 798x1200, 1000002490.png)
>>2139815You and me anon. I feel like modern shoujo/josei is defanged for whatever stupid fucking reason, just compare it to pre 2005 shoujo and then look at female fans in all forms of male media making shippy art kek. I've had this discussion before too when people would just tell me to watch something non-anime (and I do, I just believe animanga could do much better). Interestingly
some of my fav het works are from women who "graduate" doing yaoi because they can actually visualize sexually submissive men, so I hope that trend continues.
No. 2139881
File: 1723870105029.jpg (431.44 KB, 900x1025, 693fea4e39c1_13.jpg)
>>2139865> If there is a female I will try to relate or project even if I don't want to, it's not consciousYou nailed it nona. This is very much how I feel too.
No. 2139882
>>2139815In all honestly, part of my yume motivation came from that. I never felt connected to het content. I consume m/m too, but I wanted to explore other things that I could relate to in different ways. Male focused het is disgusting and the female focused romances are a slippery slope and usually, it's a miss.
>>2139865I feel similar to you about the characters. I'm very picky with female characters, I need to relate to them much more than male characters. An undeveloped boring female bothers me way more than a shitty male character. I feel upset seeing the wasted potential for women in media or how some women praise surface-level coombait female characters. Everyone is free to like what they like, but sometimes I wished the bar was a little higher than "she's so pretty".
No. 2139966
File: 1723875993811.jpg (329.8 KB, 1014x1025, --.jpg)
>>2139777The
victim complex of some people here is astonishing. You talk as if BL is directly getting beamed into your brain stem against your will kek.
No. 2139983
File: 1723876744274.jpg (76.77 KB, 887x1097, 1436554925437.jpg)
>>2139950>women that create content that is specifically targeted towards women are pickmesThe absolute state of this board.
No. 2140008
File: 1723878850819.webp (83.98 KB, 1100x619, 0_SbsLcpLmDwCVVu-9.webp)
Any Selene enjoyers here? Imo returnal is a masterpiece and she's one of the most well written and complex characters in vidya.
No. 2140026
File: 1723881380699.jpg (70.97 KB, 355x530, 1565846235100.jpg)
>>2140005What part of my post implies this? I am talking specifically about
>>2139950.
No. 2140080
File: 1723884539587.png (316.64 KB, 796x712, 1444228007537.png)
>>2140047Kek this.
The most bizarre group are women who think they are oppressed for liking female love interests/gachaslop waifus that are created by men. This kind of complaint is something that I would mostly see in libfem circles on xitter but now it has spread to this site as well. You can go to 4chan, leddit, xitter and find so many scrotes and women and troons that exclusively like waifus. I don't understand what is the need to police women that like 2d men.
No. 2140111
File: 1723886613088.png (25.86 KB, 588x268, dennis.png)
>>2140090There you go. The average troon on twitter thinks that Denji is a based misandrist for being a coom addled degenerate.
No. 2140143
>>2140080What's also fascinating is the lengths they go to just to justify not only liking their butts and boobs waifus but also hating other women for no liking them. Being a gachafag I've seen it all.
>Well, I have big breasts so I feel represented in this character with impossibly big watermelon tits clearly made for a moid fetish! Ugh I thought we were supposed to be body positive here?>Actually, I myself get confused for a 12-year old all the time despite being 25 so you hating sexy lolis is actually a personal attack against us petite women! (note: they never look younger than their age)>So what if this female character is a badly written doormat? Why must we hate femininity so much! Being female is synonymous with being useless!>Ugh, why do you people want more masculine female characters? Why do you hate femininity so much, you misogynists!>Uhhh, aren't you forgetting about the sapphics? Not only men are attracted to these obviously made for men slutty designs! So cease your lesbophobia!>Maybe I just really like self-inserting into this female character with huge breasts running around in a bikini to be seen as desirable by men? If you want to judge me for having a sexuality focused around looking at myself through male eyes then feel free to be misogynistic! (note: probably the most honest they've been about why they whiteknight for waifus)>I feel empowered by these unapologetically female characters who own their sexuality! The male designer is actually a feminist hero for giving us a dommy mommy stomping on the male MC, totally not just made for his personal cooms!And the list goes on. I'll admit that it's not inherently harmful to enjoy a waifuslop character but people should really admit that yeah, it's probably because I've been conditioned to like this and the lack of variety with female characters is a real problem rather than trying to woke-fy their tastes.
No. 2140160
>>2138513Well you see, it's all so simple I can't believe you don't understand this, so I'll spell it out for you. Portraying women with big boobs is
problematic but fiction =/= reality so shota and incest is fine. And I'm a lesbian who can't stand F/F sometimes being invaded by futa dicks so I just read M/M instead where both parties are mostly guaranteed to have a dick. I'm tired of reading het where women get forcefucked in their pussies and impregnated just because they're female so that's why I read omegaverse mpreg where omegas are forcefucked in their pussies and impregnated in their uteruses based on their omeganess. I prefer M/M because it's written by women for women even though most of my ships are from male-written series and it's the homoeroticism of their canon content that keeps me coming back for more. And we need more strong female characters so that's why I focus on the male characters in every single franchise. And most women are straight so of course they prefer yaoi but most fujos are lesbians. It's all very simple.
No. 2140198
>>2140184Nta and not a fujo. First of all, I know for a
fact you ain't gay nor lesbian or anything remotely similar, so cut the dramatics and stop capping and going all bleeding heart for them like you're gay yourself, specially for something as dumb as fandom shit. Second: realistically, why should we give a
shit about a literal minority on fandoms? Why should we give a damn about what lesbians or gays want if they're not even statistically or demographically relevant? "they don't get media for themselves!" Boo hoooo, now what? What do you want us to do?? If they so mad about not getting their gay content then they should create it themselves instead of moralfagging and scolding everybody. Sit down
No. 2140199
File: 1723893559615.jpeg (48.11 KB, 504x370, IMG_4439.jpeg)
>>2140184>fujos are the regina georges of fandom. I kek’d at the irony: no one uses picrel as a reaction image more than yurifag lesbians moralfagging on Twitter.
No. 2140207
>>2140198>not a fujoI know for a fact this is not true, don't know why you're even bothering to save face. Must be one of those fujo moments where you suddenly don't like everything that defined fujoshittery whenever it's made fun of.
Anyways, from what I've observed here, I think this general attitude is because fujos really love getting to LARP as the status quo bully for once. It's no secret that everyone (justly or unjustly) finds them utterly pathetic and repulsive, hence the weird fixation on establishing an autist dominance hierarchy over "yurifags" and "otomefags" as gloating "based straight women". Every time fujos feel like there's enough of them, they start acting hard towards other women (too chickenshit to say any of this on /a/ where they'll be put in their place) - until you remind them that they're dweeby wallflowers unable to face their garden variety pickme heterosexuality head-on. Then it's immediately "misogyny", "how dare you attack the most feminist pictures of cocks in existence" and so on.
>Sit downAh, of course you're from Twitter too. What did I even expect?
No. 2140218
>>2140215>Everyone criticizing me is either a fujo or a twitterfagThen why mad?
>they ain't even actual lesbos just larpers or political lesbians Average """lesbian""" fujo kek
No. 2140229
>>2140143>trying to woke-fy their tastesHonestly this. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen the CSM/gachafags trying to justify why the waifu character needs to be half-naked.
>>2140207>tee-hee, le based and epic 4channers are BTFOING the fujos!!!11Post 2016 newfaggot doesn't know about code geass fujos.
No. 2140235
>>2140229Dropped that edgy bishie clampslop 3 episodes in. Let me guess, you were epicly trolling 4chan by spamming Lelouch or something?
>>2140230all this seething just because no one likes fujos
No. 2140270
File: 1723902757940.webp (45.29 KB, 757x898, Balalaika.webp)
>>2140265its balalaika. Insanely cool face design ruined by coomerbait body.
No. 2140289
File: 1723904842916.webp (68.88 KB, 400x590, IMG_9005.webp)
>>2140270>coomerbaityou're a fucking retard
No. 2140295
File: 1723905050600.jpg (231.35 KB, 1800x2400, 71XeaPrYiNL.jpg)
>>2140289see? this is why no one likes waifufags. Yes, your waifu is coomerbait. You dont need to defend the honor of the coomer author.
No. 2140304
File: 1723905435277.jpg (89.41 KB, 576x771, 83306-52639.jpg)
>>2140298because shes a coomerbait character, duh. You think men see her as a cool female character? kek. Shes ''cool'' because it fits the waifu archetype the author likes, its not out of a real intention to make a cool female character the way the male characters are meant to be cool. Its why i stopped falling for these type of characters.
>>2140301Please stop pretending, the show doesnt respect her either. There is tons of super sexualized official art of her and there are tons of shots of her cleveage and legs in the show. Why cant you just admit you like a coomer characters?
No. 2140331
>>2140323>there is no nuance to black lagoon characters, they are literally coomerbait. That's a lie, but ok.
>but when the chinese cartoonBlack Lagoon is not a Chinese cartoon.
Then anon, by all means, share your own female characters since you clearly have better taste.
No. 2140341
File: 1723906835754.jpeg (4.27 MB, 6737x4767, 42473b56eeac2dc99bc14b04ab5d71…)
>>2140331why are waifufags like this? the pwecious moid you are defending doesnt see you as anything but a pair of titties. Official art, btw.
>>2140335i did and remember how nasty and sexualized the rape scene was.
No. 2140346
File: 1723907074845.jpg (854.21 KB, 850x1266, sample_2a1ce466e83b54bf9604df6…)
>>2140344so baiting now is pointing out the scrote author is a coomer? See how waifufags are always first to defend scrotoids? you are not any different from the libfems who think pic rel is liberating. Again, official art.
No. 2140348
File: 1723907162913.jpg (7.59 MB, 4096x5120, 1000006677.jpg)
>>2139788I think I have too many kek
No. 2140355
File: 1723907267790.jpg (119.94 KB, 648x792, 1000006679.jpg)
>>2140348Samefagging because I can't leave Claire and Teresa out!
No. 2140378
File: 1723907956388.png (97.65 KB, 500x347, gluv.PNG)
>>2139788Sorry not sorry. Yes I'm aware she's
problematic.
No. 2140380
File: 1723908029688.jpg (766.27 KB, 850x1207, sample_bd19b4ab0b041ab367c5a30…)
This is why its hard to take waifufags seriously, specially on lolcow. They will scream that disliking female characters is mysogyny, but when a scrote is a massive coomer they will make 3 millions excuses to defend his degeneracy. While you are defending the honor of Rei, he's out there drawing his female characters like this. This is why the state of female characters is in the gutter, because even a so caled ''redfem'' site will praise scrotes like pic rel. You arent any different from the tiktok animecore tards that claim Super Sonico is totes body positive! she's not a coomer mascot made for a coomer mascot, shes a cute fashion girl's girls!
No. 2140383
File: 1723908249705.jpg (82.69 KB, 1080x762, b93f70d7f354c12fdb505cadd8232f…)
>>2140351It's mostly just picrel. Each side has cooked up cartoon villain versions of the other, and that's who they think they're arguing with, because if one anon here does or says something, clearly that's what the hivemind on the other side thinks. Note how it's devolved into grade-school level "ur a booly!" accusations being exchanged. Like we're not all on Lolcow.farm, the Cyberbullying website.
No. 2140394
File: 1723908741058.jpg (75.41 KB, 639x426, 92922727.JPG)
>>2140387>You guys need to realize and accept that 99% of female characters created by menOh ok, so let's just focus on female characters written by women then. That should be acceptable, right? Or no, wait- I forgot female-written female characters are boring self-inserting wish fulfillment mary sues that women only write in because they aren't creative enough to come up with the brilliant idea to create a faggot male MC instead
No. 2140402
File: 1723909019275.png (738.28 KB, 669x672, wifes.png)
>>2140348i like adventurous women alot. isabella is my dream wife
No. 2140407
File: 1723909152474.jpg (Spoiler Image,76.41 KB, 858x476, sailormoon.jpg)
>>2140394NTA. Maybe you don't remember because you were a kid, but Sailor Moon had significant fanservice too lol.
No. 2140412
File: 1723909241115.jpg (381.67 KB, 850x1257, sample_7bb2d7638c622fc1ced637e…)
>>2140405at least you admit shes coomerbait, finally! see, its not hard not to defend coomer moids. Isnt it better to live your truth? here is my waifu froom moidslop as a reward
No. 2140416
>>2140407To be fair I don't think the manga (which was written by a woman) did? The worst stuff I remember is some
mildly suggestive pages and like non-sexual Barbie doll nudity. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
No. 2140421
>>2140420this
>>2140412 shes kay from girls und panzer, a moid slop show. I love stereotypical american girls in anime. Now answer my question, whats wrong with liking female characters that are waifubait and obviously the moids author fetish? like, whats wrong with acknowledging that and still liking them?
No. 2140436
File: 1723910106047.png (819.73 KB, 938x796, 1000006680.png)
>>2140431> Tall women holding guns who aren't coomerbaitCasually gonna recommend Caitlyn from Arcane (Vi, Jinx and Sevika too but she fits this description best)
No. 2140437
File: 1723910112331.jpg (166.25 KB, 728x997, artwork-sarah-kerrigan-portrai…)
Do you anons think that it's possible for a woman to have a coomer-y design, but still be a well-written character? Pic only partially related, she's just a character I like lol.
No. 2140439
>>2140428They are clearly not open to criticism if they crying when someone calls a spade a spade. At the end, they are just defending the coomer moid that drew her.
>>2140431This. Like how much proof besides the amount of fanservice, both on the show and off the show and the author being a fucking hentai artist do you need to admit you like some moid's strong wifu coomerbait?
No. 2140453
>>2140447Most modern shoujo and josei anime revolve around romance, Sailor Moon was very heavily action-slanted. For example, they killed off the entire cast in the first season on-screen and again in the final season, something that was fairly traumatic to me as a kid. You don't see heavy turns like that being taken in other josei anime.
>>2140452MKR is another one, and it's about as old as Sailor Moon in age by now. Action-based, dramatic shoujo/josei died off in the early to mid 00's and was replaced with romance stories making a lot of female readers migrate to Shounen series. That's why Shounen Jump for example is now like 55% female readers.
No. 2140454
File: 1723910727526.jpg (355.88 KB, 1125x1606, basicallymyoc.jpg)
since both male written and female written female characters are worthless coombait i think it's time to start doing what most fans of male characters do and adopt these female characters to make them our OCs and drawing from canon for any redeemable aspects of their personality while also discarding the bad parts
No. 2140461
File: 1723910929966.jpg (180.04 KB, 850x1087, __astolfo_astolfo_and_roland_f…)
>>2140421there's nothing wrong with it even if you don't genuflect before every mention of your fave with "uhh but guise i know she's just from a moid coom b8 character ahaha don't think i'm a filthy pickme" kek just don't try to claim a character that's fetish material isn't fetish material.
but even if you want to do that, who really cares, it won't matter in a year. posting my wife as tax
No. 2140466
File: 1723911067765.jpg (37.09 KB, 640x512, 1000006681.jpg)
>>2140437Yes, sometimes it feels like there's a big disconnect between the writers and the artists or the character design toes the line enough that you can give the benefit of the doubt(ish) regardless. For example, the armour in Claymore is kinda fanservicey, but I still enjoyed it and the female characters a lot. A more autistic example that I'm gonna get laughed at for is Total Drama kek, most of the female cast is given hourglass figures and are obviously meant to be pretty, and certain parts of the show haven't aged well, but I still thought they were funny with distinct personalities as a kid (and the mean girl unironically had a pretty well-written arc.)
No. 2140472
File: 1723911119342.jpeg (858.67 KB, 1762x3000, gunsam999 makima in a turtlene…)
>>2140454Ahaha, I do this with Makima - I am more in love with the idea of her that I have in my mind than the actual character. Fujimoto's treatment of female characters makes me ultra uncomfortable tbh.
No. 2140479
>>2140421Because that's not what the original conversation was about? People were just agreeing with a character that I posted about liking, then anon came in with their bait posts yelling about the character being coomerish, which to me, seemed disingenuous from the start and why I refused to fully engage in it. It's just that I get tired about every time I try to share a female character here, that's what the conversation degrades to. Some of us genuinely don't care and just want to talk about the media we like. Like, why is it so bad that I choose to focus on other things I like about said character? When I first watched Black Lagoon, I noticed the fanservice, obviously, but I still liked the characrers, the setting, and the plot. I mean for christ sakes, Revy runs around in bootyshorts and a bra, yet I still like her as a character anyways. So at this point, it's like…so what? If a female character is sexualized no matter what, then maybe we should be more like moids and just like a character without giving a damn what anyone else thinks and stop with the moral fagging.
No. 2140489
>>2140479anon, please i am literally the first post
>>2140270 i know you think any post that disagrees with you is bait, but thats not the meaning of the word.
No. 2140495
File: 1723911678695.png (785.07 KB, 960x720, bomi-snapshot-2021-09-27-00-38…)
random rant out of nowhere but the "male/female character quality" discussion in weeb spheres is always kind of pointless to me, because the bulk of people whining about female characters getting shafted are consuming shonen. people watch and read content written for underage boys, and then have the gall to be shocked that the women aren't well-written…well, no shit. it's about as dumb as consuming shojo and whining at the lack of high-octane fights.
i've always thought people who actually watched anime – like, had a vested interest in it and bothered to seek things out past whatever the algo spoonfed them – would realize there's a bunch of good, female-centered content out there. even if it's written by a guy, the female characters are well done, see stuff like psycho pass or madoka or haibane renmei. if they do actually watch anime and they still use the "durrr female characters are just poorly written!!" excuse that's because they prefer to see men and don't bother paying attention to women-centered stories. and nothing wrong with that of course but i wish the western fandom environment allowed for more honesty rather than endless moralfagging and excuse-making.
No. 2140506
File: 1723911967607.jpg (30.8 KB, 533x400, 1000006682.jpg)
>>2140437Yep. Here's my ultimate, nostalgia fuelled
problematic fave that I have no defense for kek, I just love how entertainingly psycho and
abusive she is.
>>2140495Even as a kid I was so sad that she didn't get to be with Sakura. She was so cute.
No. 2140514
>>2140495>people watch and read content written for underage boys, and then have the gall to be shocked that the women aren't well-writtenSo are the men in the content made for little girls as badly written as women in content for little boys?
>there's a bunch of good, female-centered content out thereCan we talk about the proportion of good female-centered content versus the rest?
No. 2140518
File: 1723912439938.jpg (81.39 KB, 564x773, mitsuri-ds.jpg)
>>2140437I think so. I love Mitsuri from Demon slayer a lot, but I think her cleavage for no reason design does ruin her character a lot. Like why even do that?? I think she's a cute, fun character, but it still sucks because she gets sexualized a ton by male fans.
No. 2140524
File: 1723912678225.gif (716.49 KB, 800x450, tumblr_3a2b2be6d95f1cc8a3f5272…)
>>2140437Absolutely, yes.
No. 2140529
File: 1723912729163.gif (182.97 KB, 220x124, 1000006683.gif)
>>2140517They peaked with Prince Charming in Cinderella 3.
No. 2140535
>>2140308See, this is only confusing if you assume that the unlikable, pudgy girl who'd ship buttsex in 2000 is a different person from the one who'd ship buttsex in 2024. Are AGP trannies that different between 1973 and today? Not really. They just wrote their rape threats on paper.
"Coombait" is just a venue (lolcow) and time period (CURRENT YEAR) adjusted way for a fujo to express her staple displeasure with "the bitch" broadly being "in the way", aka existing. If this discussion was happening even a decade earlier, I can guarantee there wouldn't be any pretense of taking issue with sexualization of women. Fujos would just keep writing their bland slop in which the female character becomes a nagging wife/jealous girlfriend/domineering mother to push the bishie towards cock and reassure the fujo that only her hole is allowed. Then everyone started ripping them a new one over their cringe, hence the need for even more mental gymnastics. You see, now it's about uhh… How do I avoid being called a cringe pickme on lolcor? Right, it's about owning the moids and coomers, you see.
Additionally, remember that you're talking to a demographic that would rather mutilate their tits than tell the fetishization/misogyny moralfags to go fuck themselves, so don't expect any honesty about this or anything else. Just enjoy the show.
No. 2140537
File: 1723912888994.png (1.1 MB, 1920x816, Arcane (2021) - S01E08 - Oil a…)
>>2140436bit ot but i loved arcane for doing picrel, i can't remember the last time i've seen a powerful woman who wasn't a sex symbol herself with a twink escort.
to be real i can't remember it ever happening anywhere else No. 2140541
>>2140454Fixing female characters' bad writing isn't going to fix the larger issue of them being ruined from the beginning.
>>2140495Like this attitude of "well anime has shit female characters deal with it!!!" is stupid defeatism. Recommending Haibane Renmei like a broken record to someone who much prefers more fast-paced shows and is drawn to male character-dominated action series does nothing but enforce the assumption that you shouldn't demand more variety. Like for example, there's an entire subcategory of women who love male characters because they're really into sports series which is a genre centering male characters. When female character specific sports genre gets done it's dogshit like Keijo that repels women for very understandable reasons. Umamusume has a female fanbase but they're the kind more into the cutesy idol-like looks of the characters rather than the drama and friendships.
No. 2140546
>>2140535this post is so dumb and stereotypical.
1. i've never seen a fujo hate on a female character unless she was indeed just a glorified womb for the male protagonist to sire some shithead so the show could get a sequel.
2. fujos – like all shippers – hate on ANY character who gets in the way of their ship. you weren't around for the hetalia ship wars, obviously.
3. only western fujoshi troon out. the fujo to troon pipeline idea loses all water when you inspect literally every other fujo space online. chinese, japanese, desi, spanish, etc. women are not trooning out en masse due to gay porn unless they regularly kick it in english-speaking circles.
you're relying on some strawman for the basis if your argument, just eat shit
No. 2140562
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>>2140537Yes, Mel's mother was so based for the relatively little screentime she was given. Also
I'm admittedly a dirty fujo but I instantly loved Mel and hated how much the fanbase seethed about her for getting in the way of Viktor/Jayce (Jayce isn't even good enough for Viktor anyway btw but that's another topic.) She's very intelligent and mysterious with a sympathetic streak, and on top of that she has a gorgeous design. That's one case where the fandom DOES have shipping induced brainrot against a genuinely decent female character.
>>2140560Yes I'm reposting because I wrote "sage" instead like a fucking autist kek
No. 2140563
>>2140559NP
nonny if you have high tolerance for fanservice black lagoon is pretty neat.
No. 2140565
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>>2140541>Like this attitude of "well anime has shit female characters deal with it!!!" is stupid defeatismi didn't say all anime, i specified shonen anime/content. demanding better-written female characters from stuff in that genre is dumb as hell, go watch something else. your "demanding" doesn't even do anything but annoy people like me and spike your cortisol because shonen jump will never gaf about your desires – put the energy you (general you) spend into crying about generic shonen #493 not giving you a feminist icon into seeking out better shit.
>Like for example, there's an entire subcategory of women who love male characters because they're really into sports series which is a genre centering male characters.>When female character specific sports genre gets done it's dogshit what makes you assume women into sports anime are into it for a genuine love of sports and not their desire to see attractive boys slap a ball around…do you think haikyuu! would be so popular if it didn't have cute guys? kek.
>>2140551i'm not trying to ascribe a noble reason to it, i realize it's just gay porn. but it's not the cause of troonery and fujoshi aren't any worse than any other shipper archetype
No. 2140566
>>2140304This
nonny's post is right and I say this as someone who can't stand fujos. Difference is that I'm not an absolute doomer like some fujos who think like this are.
Let's not blindly accept whatever makes them seethe (female characters made by horny scrotes) just so we can feel superior to them, or pretend it's feminist in any way, that's shitty tiktoker black-and-white behavior. It's true that characters like this can be appreciated by women in a different way than how men appreciate them, even if they were created by men. You have the right to do that. But that doesn't make them perfect examples of female representation. On the other hand, the fact that there is merch that shows the character in a lewd sexualized manner, or even the fact that she was made by a scrote known for drawing porn, doesn't have to ruin her less sexualized image in the actual show (though I've never watched it so I'm not sure how sexualized she is in there).
I'm not even a waifufag (I suspect that's just a buzzword this anon is throwing at anyone who disagrees with her) but I want to watch Black Lagoon the anime because the art style looks cool and edgy and the character designs look badass. I'm aware that the creator is a pornsick scrote but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy an
adaptation of something half-decent that he happened to make once. Sometimes moids make female characters whose fetishy elements are toned down enough for us to be able to look past it, I believe that's what's happening in this case. It's not wrong to like something like that.
>>2140352Nonna, you're not really helping your case. The author is a well-known femdomfag. I even read his femdom manga once kek. Moid fetishes aren't always super obvious, unless you know what you're looking for.
>>2140351>Literally who gives a fuck if some anonymous woman enjoys watching drawn men fuck eachother in the butt, Nobody here actually hates fujos for enjoying a female-made genre of gay anime boys. Nice strawman tho.
No. 2140580
File: 1723914033532.png (1.07 MB, 1920x816, Arcane (2021) - S01E06 - When …)
>>2140568i'm so used to being called a troon or a moid here that it doesn't even phase me anymore.
i'm just glad if staff checks my ip they'll probably see my blackpilled posts on 2X and realize i'm an autist at worst>>2140562i got into arcane really late so i missed the mel shitflinging…i love her though
>Jayce isn't even good enough for Viktor anyway you're right kek, jayce is a total non-character, he didn't make any decisions that weren't fed to him. mel had his stupid ass entirely wrapped her finger and viktor basically catapulted him into the fame he enjoys. such a shithead
No. 2140585
>>2140567No, it's not. This thread is for discussion. You don't seem to understand what bait even is. Report them if you truly believe that.
>>2140572Any form of disagreement or criticism is bait for newfags.
No. 2140591
>>2140565>what makes you assume women into sports anime are into it for a genuine love of sports and not their desire to see attractive boys slap a ball around…do you think haikyuu! would be so popular if it didn't have cute guys? kek.An extreme example would be Slam Dunk which has been a gigantic hit with women from the beginning and you could hardly call them bishounens. Most sports anime start as generic shounen with generic anime boys, but they evolve to be more female-pandering due to cultivating a corresponding fanbase. Blue Lock is a monster hit in Japan and they didn't start with the fujopandering until later into the series.
>demanding better-written female characters from stuff in that genre is dumb as hell, go watch something else. your "demanding" doesn't even do anything but annoy people like me and spike your cortisol because shonen jump will never gaf about your desiresIf you're admitting that shounen garbage and action-heavy series don't want to write good female characters, then what is the point in complaining about women not liking them? Let them complain about them instead of getting mad and angry at them for not watching your SoL cute girls doing cute things shows because it's not a concept they find enjoyable or satisfying.
No. 2140594
File: 1723914413261.jpg (26.05 KB, 488x324, ao3.jpg)
And this is how it always will be.
No. 2140599
>>2140596Gen: no romance
Multi: multiple pairings, not just one
No. 2140604
>>2140565>shonen jump will never gaf about your desiresNot related to female characters but The Prince of Tennis (a Shonen Jump manga created by a man) definitely caters to the female audience. There were official otome and even BL games ffs. There's plenty of official merch aimed at yumejoshi. There are musicals and shit.
Which is great, of course, but it also makes me think about how everybody is more willing to make handsome or pretty male characters for women than female characters that are not coomerbait or shitty stereotypes. (Which is fucked up for obvious reasons, but I must point out that it also helps girls prefer male characters over female ones, which is another level of fucked up)
I remember that a while ago, someone posted about Link from the recent Zelda games and how he was said to have been designed as an androgynous guy so women could "relate" to him. Someone else questioned why they did this half-hearted attempt at making a male protagonist more likeable for women, instead of just making a female protagonist that acts just like him. Then other anons, or just the first anon, angrily replied that they gave the female audience some eye candy which is why this decision is unquestionable. So why do moids get to play as a male all the time and ogle the other characters that are female, but we have to be happy that they made the male protagonist cute instead of giving us the same thing men get with the sexes inverted? We're so used to this kind of shit that some of us are happy when we get the crumbs of what scrotes get to enjoy on a regular basis.
No. 2140605
>>2140593How I see it it's anons not being able to handle the truth about characters like Balalaika being created with moid interest first and women finding them fun coincidental. It always follows a formula.
>A lot of female characters in anime are written to be coomtropes and that's why I don't like them>That's not true at all, this one is totally badass because she wears a suit and is tall! >The artist is a literal hentai gooner and the series has tons of fanservice of her>I'm sick of this moralfaggotry!! Stop calling what I like coomshit!!!Even despite anons multiple times explaining that it's fair enough to like female characters created with coomery in mind, but that people should be able to admit the facts and have an open discussion about the desire for more variety in female characters across the genre. I will respect a woman slobbering over Makima while she admits that she's fully created for Fujimoto's ball crushing fetish more than someone who's trying to pass her as a feminist girlboss and everyone who disagrees is a misogynist who wants to put women in burkhas.
No. 2140606
>>2140593>Nothing is good enough for anons.Maybe learn from
>>2140563 and understand that disliking one aspect of a character isn't the same as disliking everything about it. I don't understand why you're all so sensitive about any negative thing said about the characters.
No. 2140617
>>2140607Nice try but I'm not a fujo and I'm very critical of the stuff that I like. I don't have any issues admitting flaws and limitations in the characters and series I enjoy. If I think the bad outweighs the good I simply won't consume the media, but I don't expect to consume something pristine and perfect.
>>2140609Tbh I think it's an overly sensitive anon who isn't ready to face an aspect of her favorite characters.
No. 2140619
>>2140580> Your picrelThe dynamic between Vi and Jinx is another huge part of why I love the show, I love well-written sisters so much. To be honest, Arcane's female characters are pretty unique in the sense that they have roles usually fulfilled by males, but in a way that still feels organic and "feminine" if that makes sense? Meant in a good way. Like for example:
> Caitlyn is the loose cannon cop with a heart of gold who has to get her hands dirty/deal with corruption> Jinx is the dangerous yet tragic antagonist who pushes most of the conflict along> Vi is the rugged, street smart ex-con who wants to avenge her family> Sevika is the brute to Silco's shadowy supervillain and has a violent rivalry with ViYou can even apply this to the male cast as well, like:
> Viktor is a genius prodigy but he's also the beautiful tragically ill waif kek> Jayce is an idealist who gets led astray from his morals in pursuit of his dreams> Silco is an elegant smooth-talking villain who doesn't get involved with the action himself and has a "weakness" in the people he loves No. 2140621
File: 1723915495544.jpg (593.51 KB, 938x3947, sassy shotakko.jpg)
>>2139544Don’t know if you saw the video, but what
>>2139531 was referring to was the scene where the fujoshi office worker sees her boss’s grandsons and immediately starts fantasizing about them. Not sure if your justification applies to this lol
No. 2140625
>>2140568Yaoi is not the cause of girls trooning out but it definitely helps. I do believe the obsession TIFs have with fiction is one of the reasons why they decide to "stop being a girl". Everywhere you look, moids are represented as ideal, and in yaoi, gay male relationships are also idealized, so if an immature girl that already has a complex becomes obsessed with yaoi, she'll come to the conclusion that it's better to be a gay man than to be a woman because straight relationships work different and the woman is always in a humiliating, submissive role (or so she thinks) due to her femaleness.
There was a survey on fujos several decades ago in Japan and some of the fujos said the reason they love BL is basically that they dislike being female, some of them were already TIFs (unlike what some of you might think, trannies has existed before the current gender craze). So, indeed, not all fujos are TIFs, but BL is a genre that naturally attracts that kind of girl because of its premise. Most fujos do not have an inferiority complex about being female, so they don't want to troon out just because they're into yaoi, but not all of them have a healthy self-esteem. Pointing out something like this is not an attack on fujos as a whole, or an attack on their taste.
>>2140537>i can't remember the last time i've seen a powerful woman who wasn't a sex symbol herself with a twink escort.Has anyone in this thread (esp. fujos) even heard about Oooku the Inner Chambers? The anime was so ideal that it got me to read the manga. It genuinely made me depressed that the anime was over because while the story is great, voice, color and animation add so much to it. I fucking hate this trend of adapting 12 low-budget episodes of a josei masterpiece only to never do anything with it again.
No. 2140636
>>2140621 something I've noticed is that when women that are into shota and/or loli almost never want to fuck these characters.
For shotas, they ship them with another man, for lolis they project themselves.
No. 2140639
>>2140591>and you could hardly call them bishounensNTA. They might not be drawn in a bishounen style, but that has never stopped women from being horny for a male character. You can't possibly believe that all those Slam Dunk fangirls aren't also crushing on the guys.
However, I do agree that women are more into sports dramas than men. The characters being male and at least somewhat attractive is a bonus.
>Blue Lock is a monster hit in Japan and they didn't start with the fujopandering until later into the series. Most of the time it doesn't matter if there's fujopandering or not. Fans will ship whatever they can regardless of canon.
No. 2140642
>>2140625>OokuNTA but that's my favourite manga/anime ever. I'm obsessed with how it shows that even after that happens women are still subjected to patriarchy, the entire point of the male harem was to produce a (male) son, the change in society is very gradual. It's a shame the manga's translation is pure dogshit, in English it's literally unreadable garbage. I recommend it to every
nonnie on this website.
No. 2140644
>>2139866>I feel like modern shoujo/josei is defanged for whatever stupid fucking reasonI fucking hate that when you google "josei manga" now, it's all TL pornsick shit where the female protagonist is depicted as some sick and twisted combination of an uke in a BL manga and a girl in a hentai manga.
Yesterday I was trying to explain to my coworker/friend what's different about the way women and moids draw female characters, so I wanted to use josei manga as an example, but when I googled it, practically everything that popped up was that pornsick shit.
I HATE THIS SHITTY MISOGYNISTIC PORNSICK WORLD SO MUCH HOLY SHIT TAKE ME BACK TO THE EARLY 2000s No. 2140651
>>2139772>but you never hear the latter being used to claim all shonen mangakas are pedophile supportersYeah, most everyone outside of lolcow is too attached to shounenshit to want to be against them. Or they just think it's so normal to sexualize high school-aged girls that they don't even think there's any relation between that and pedophilia anymore.
Reminder that there was an episode in Dragon Ball where Bulma showed Roshi her genitals and she was only a young-looking teenager, yet no one calls Toriyama a pedophile. Shounen manga gets away with so much and no one says anything until a pedo mangaka is "shockingly" found to actually be a pedophile who is into teenage girls or even children (who would've thought??!?!?!?)
No. 2140653
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>>2139096She's definitely not dumb, but Toph is a fantastic example of a dudebro-ish female character kek.
No. 2140654
>>2140640Kek I wasn't talking about her but yes, Arlecchino got exactly the same treatment.>>2140644And it's not just the coomerified infestation either, even in josei centered around romance (which most of it is now because apparently women only deserve repetitive romcoms) the male love interest is either lacking a personality in the same fashion as old Disney princes or he's a straight out
abusive piece of shit. I swear the appeal in slop like My Dress Up Darling is just women reading it going "omg she's a sexy bpd-chan just like me for real! I could have a daddy wrangler just like she does too!".
No. 2140657
>>2140653I'm so fucking mad female characters like her can be counted on one hand.
>>2140650He is. Ignore and report.
No. 2140661
File: 1723917360239.png (186.71 KB, 1017x588, xittertroons.png)
>>2140546I will be super honest - some of the posts here like
>>2140322 and
>>2140535 read like they were written by a male or mtf troon from twitter. Only they spend the entire day making up things about fujos to get mad at.
No. 2140670
>>2140661They're not making anything up, they're just generalizing.
There are countless instances of fujos in the past and even present doing what those guys are saying. Some MtF troons on Twitter using these facts to shit on fujos and BL as a whole is not proof that those things never happen or have happened.
No. 2140676
File: 1723917943484.gif (2.3 MB, 500x300, 1000006686.gif)
>>2140657Same, she's not my favourite female character in ALTA (that would be Azula) but she's easily in my top 3 and the fact she's still so popular now should have been a clue to other writers! Fun fact, both Toph and Azula were originally written as gigachad males, but the team realised they would be way more likeable and interesting as girls, which puts this 20-year-old show light years ahead of most modern productions in terms of awareness and female representation.
(Oh and Toph also avoids the de-Tomboyifying trope, she's just as kickass as an adult in TLOK kek)
No. 2140679
>>2140665>when I see the exact same discourse here that I only see twitter trannies postI saw discussions about those things on Tumblr ages ago before it was infested by troons. Troonbians have just appropriated legitimate criticism in an attempt to hide the fact that they're just regular ol' misogynistic males with a lesbian fetish. Just as they appropriate stuff like feminist writings to claim that it supports their delusions.
(reposted because I was replying to the wrong person)
No. 2140685
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>>2140673That's a totally
valid complaint because the skirt uniform looks more like an Alice in Wonderland cosplay than a police outfit. But to be ABSOLUTELY fair, it's only ever worn in Piltover, the fancy privileged city which obviously doesn't have much street-level crime. All the officers wear full SWAT gear whenever they go to Zaun. There's also Sheriff Grayson (picrel) who wears pants.
No. 2140688
>>2140680I hate that whenever you disagree with fujos or find some behavior that is seen among them questionable, you're now called a troon or moid because apparently only scrotes are capable of not liking yaoi or of disliking how some fujos treat female characters.
I'm starting to suspect that every time this happens and the discussion devolves into calling non-fujos moids, it's actually a male troll just enjoying the shitshow
No. 2140694
>>2140683>the ones who seethe about fujos not caring about female characters or yuri are almost always TIMs or one of their brainwashed handmaidens.TIMs weren't a widespread phenomenon in the 2000s and anti-fujos existed back then. They were a mix of lesbians who were sad at the femslash drought, women who were mad the fujos were turning their husbandos gay, women who preferred m/f ships and the self-inserters with female OCs (yumes). All of this turned into the early 2010s with the same female anti-fujos demanding strong female characters and putting female characters in traditionally male roles in their fics and having "femslash weeks" in order to push back against the dominance of m/m. The tranny boom happened on tumblr and the men saw what these women were doing and used that to assume that their female experience could be equivalent to the TIMs' fetishization of women and lesbians. I agree with
>>2140679 . TIMs just did what men do and copied any prior criticism female anti-fujos had and warped it into "if you don't like my half-dressed sexy waifu OC that I want to fuck with my penis you're a misogynist".
No. 2140711
>>2140699Which is fucking retarded because moids are allowed to do as they please. Sure, they also cringed at kids who wrote non-sensical self-insert fanfics back then, but everybody knows that more than half of all fictional heroes are male and whenever a non-objectified female hero appears, she's called a Mary Sue, or insulted for being unattractive. Meaning that people are quicker to judge female protagonists that aren't made for the pleasure of moids than they are to judge the plethora of male protagonists that are made to be moid fantasies and call them Gary Stus (Rambo, etc.)
Of course, when a male protagonist isn't a moid's ideal of masculinity he also gets a lot of criticism. And god forbid if he's also cute and he becomes popular with women (like that Final Fantasy guy that had to be "toned down" because scrotes got mad).
No. 2140715
>>2140705>shaming women for being into m/mThat's not the same thing as calling out certain things. There will be some people that criticize fujo's behavior and some people that criticize their taste. They're two different things, stop conflating the two.
>What is the end goal of "pushing back on m/m dominance" as you say?Women who like F/F or F/M, self-insert, or have husbandos, simply want to help their respective genre grow, and to do that, they need to raise awareness in fandom that something other than M/M exists. Is promoting female characters or certain types or ships "shaming women for being into M/M" now?
No. 2140725
>>2140699mary sues (male or female) are shit writing, and at the time a lot of people were starting to get into media analysis and critique in the hopes of improving their writing. Some swung too far and just ended up creating equally misguided 'anti-sues', as they were called at the time, which were frightfully bland and mundane characters that came with their own narrative issues. Mary Sues aren't just power fantasies or self-inserts, they bend and warp the entire story and cast into orbiting them (or the author, as they're often stand-ins). It's a level of indulgence that people don't like in fanfic because they've come to that space to read about what they're a fan of, not an author stand-in who's perfect and unique and adored by all the canon characters, and they don't like it in original fiction because it flattens out the entire story and can ruin suspension of disbelief with how the world bends over backwards to cater to the MC
This isn't to say girls can't make silly Mary Sue sparkle OCs, by the way, but that it isn't surprising that people push back against characters that are that level of self-indulgent– they're not for an audience, they're for the individual to have fun with.
No. 2140729
File: 1723920279945.gif (1.2 MB, 400x256, giphy.gif)
>>2140535>TIFs>AGP trannies>titchopYou must be lost or retarded. Are you aware that you're on The Radfem website? LC is
terf capital, so I'm not sure why you're trying to project your troon woes onto a bunch of normal women as if we have anything to do with their crap. And again:
>PudgyInsulting the appearance of a strawfujo inside your head with the creativity of a high-school pick-me acrylic-nailed bitch, oh the irony. Yurifags are the real misogynists, always have been, always will. No one hates real women more than you do. That's why you latch onto fictional scrote coom bait yuri with balloon tits and butt lifts while harrassing normal ladies on the internet for the crime of looking and acting like an average, healthy human being.
(infight bait) No. 2140750
>>2140729To be perfectly honest a lot of yurifags especially on this site don't even really like GL, original or ships, they're just reactionaries who hate fujos. Much like the 2edgy "fujos" who don't really give a shit about BL but only want to be edgy contrarians
such as Rancefag.
No. 2140763
>>2140730I don't think anyone should get harassed over them, least of all DA users posting their original content Mary Sues or even their fan donut steals kek, but I do find it odd when people get upset/shocked over getting pushback when they post OC fics within fandom spaces. It's just not what
fans are looking for.
>>2140741Yeah kek I actually had them in mind while I was writing that bit but didn't want to go on even more of a spergout (specifically their character designs, which are similar to the turbo-unremarkable anti-sue designs from back in the day). Generic isekai protags have also devolved over time, despite each one attempting to have (an increasingly thin) gimmick to try and stand out from the rest, and the ones that do have more rounded characters are often cried about by the moids who exist on a diet of flat isekai protags lol. Self-insert media is best consumed in moderation kek
No. 2140781
>>2140745>>2140761This
is the containment for infighting, you silly geese. Nonas keep complaining that this thread is unnecessary but it's one of the few remaining debates on LC that causes a massive rift between two equally sized factions of nonas. Draining it out into this thread was a sensible choice.
No. 2140785
>>2140777Yumes create a lot of content too, but a lot of them don't want to share and aren't interested in hyping each others' self inserts, a lot of yumes on lolcow admit to being fairly possessive of their husbandos of choice. The yumes creating solo art of their husbandos do fairly well in the scene.
>>2140781They have
multiple threads dedicated to infighting about fujos, this thread was supposed to be about female characters but someone couldn't go on for two minutes without having a psychotic breakdown about fujos.
No. 2140789
>>2140594I honestly think the gap between m/m and m/f used to be smaller, especially on websites like ffdotnet and Wattpad, but ao3 was made for slash
wincest and supernatural rpf were the foundation so it’s not surprising it has a lot more m/m
No. 2140791
>>2140772Did you conveniently miss the five year long witch hunt where it was illegal to be 'le ebil homosexual man fetishiser' or were you hibernating during that period? Speaking of, why doesn't
anyone ever bring that up? I was chased through the mud more times than I can count, but all of a sudden fujos are the 'oppressors'. Please.
No. 2140825
>>2140796That begs the question, what's the definitive site for f/f content?
>>2140812What took you so long nona? wasn't it obvious by all the bush beating that some fujos avoid yuri for that reason? Truth is, people can read stories where the mc doesn't look and act like them. women did it for ages. But now that lesbians and gays are getting the limelight, suddenly straights don't want anything to do with "gayshit" anymore. It must be a matter of preference thing than simply refusing to empathize.
>>2140820When the sex you're attracted causes all sorts of abhorrent crimes, you have to be mentally ill to like men–speaking as a straight woman myself. There's still good men out there but no one can deny that lesbian/bi women have it better for better or worse.
No. 2140830
>>2140796>Ao3 has always been a niche site for m/m slashao3 hasn't been niche since 2012
>Places like Wattpad are much more about m/f stories and danbooru is filled with f/f fanart while m/m is in the minority.wattpad is for x reader fics for 13 year olds. m/f shippers who are serious about the quality of their writing use ao3 just like the f/f shippers just like the m/m shippers
>It's just a case of confirmation bias that people wave around as a gotcha to whine about how the fujo illuminati runs the world.why are you denying that the majority of fandoms are primarily fixated on m/m? f/f is the black sheep of fanfic. moids usually prefer m/f but usually don't ship at all, a small subsection of himedanshis don't count, because they'd rather draw inflation porn than write a one-shot. everyone knows women dominate fanfic, so whatever the majority of women prefer, that will always be the majority, and right now that's m/m
No. 2140834
>>2140825>There's still good men out therebe serious please
>no one can deny that lesbian/bi women have it better for better or worse.maybe bi women, but lesbians? lesbians make an extremely tiny minority, their spaces constantly get infested by troons and on the topic of fiction/media there are not many good female characters on their own let alone that have meaningful relationships with other women.
No. 2140857
>>2140852What even does "appreciation" mean to you people? Is liking them not enough? Do you seriously want me to treat female characters how I treat male characters? Do you
want to know how I treat male characters? Because if I did the same to girls you'd be out with pitchforks behind me still.
No. 2140862
>>2140852That's completely true, what does it have to do with the bl genre though? Fujoshi shippers hating on female characters is a complete lie to me, if they care about the source material, they usually analyse everything in their tumblr blogs, including female characters, but they also fujopost. Point me to the post you're talking about, please, i just came.
> the conversation gets reset after a while like we're missing a dps check.Kekk
No. 2140925
>>2140903 I guess they just like the fucked up dynamic, of course there might be actual women that are into it because they are pedos. But most of them seems to be just projecting into these child characters.
I feel they are way less dangerous to actual children that males into shota/loli.
No. 2140942
>>2140642And it has both a shit-ton of manservice
Arikoto makes me feral, based female MCs, femdom, ugly female designs (which is rare in animanga these days) and even fujopandering, all for the purpose of telling a serious story that explores feminist ideas. There's NO excuse not to watch/read Oooku. Few works of fiction give me post-series depression as seriously as this one did (although I haven't finished the manga yet).
>It's a shame the manga's translation is pure dogshitIt does get a bit exhausting reading everything in that old-timey English, but I wouldn't say it's terrible.
>>2138567Yes. I'm a yume, but I admit that this isn't exclusive to fujos. I mostly associate it with being an immature teenager who hasn't yet learned to separate fiction from reality or control one's feelings.
>>2138575This one gets me because Minho was inspired by a guy that fucked the author over in real life (iirc) and Sadistic Beauty was her way to get some kind of revenge on him. I hate this moid-worshipping moralfag mentality among western webtoon readers, where they will shit on the female protagonist of femdom stories for dumb shit like "not asking for consent" or being too rough or acting like any moid would in a typical spicy romance comic where the woman is the submissive one. And in BL webtoons, of course female characters tend to be dehumanized by the audience, too (I'm thinking about Killing Stalking).
At least let women fantasize about having power over scrotes, for fuck's sake. Moids do so much worse in fiction and in real life. No woman is infringing on males' human rights for writing a scenario where moids are treated by women in the same way we are usually treated. As if it was normal for women irl to rape men and not the other way around.
No. 2140970
>>2140605You see it this way precisely because you screech about based feminism and attacking real women every time someone finds your anime anal slop cringe. No "coomer" waifufag believes moids write feminist icons, it's what hyper-idealizing BPD fujos project because you are incapable of any kind of nuance+any woman who isn't a genderblob on T
triggers you.
>>2140729>fujos and radfems>having nothing to do with TIFsKek as if no one can read the detrooner or TIF thread. Another case of a fujo sweatily renouncing everything that defines her hobby and pretending it's possible for her to be "normal" because she got made fun of. That's what makes you so inherently cringe and unbased, you are ashamed of what you are in the most pitiful way possible. In a weird way, even coomers inspire more respect because they're more authentic.
No. 2140985
>>2139021Yeah
nonny, what character is this?
>>2139033>so now I just model and print my own to paint kekPlease show me your ways
tutorials, o wise nonna!
No. 2141007
>>2140509>An idealised version of 'wife' connotes"Wife" shouldn't connote anything or be idealized in any way because it just means "female spouse". That's your problem. It's exactly like troons cooming over calling themselves "girl" because "girl" inside their heads is equivalent with a very specific, idealized, and fetishized version of a young female that they learned from borderline pedo anime. Or like associating disgusting sexual concepts with the words "mommy" and "daddy".
>wife = a spouse who's completely smitten by his/her wife, dotes on her, compliments her, gives her gifts, supports her goals and thinks she's the best thing to ever grace his/her lifeDisgusting. It's just a bunch of sex stereotypes associated with a female-specific word. So revolutionary!
>Hence why I use 'wife' for both male and female characters I like because that's exactly how I feel about my favourites>'husband' is permanently repulsive because I would rather die than marry a 3D scroteRetardation.
No. 2141013
>>2140903Japanese women don't realize how gross and cringe anything is, actually. There are big booba pretty josei MCs because they insert as them with no problem despite looking nothing like them. There is also rape and obligatory bodice ripping because of the exact type of repression that drives fujos - they don't want to be "sluts" for wanting sex, so it has to be forced on them, but also not really. BL is increasing the level of abstraction and removing your "slutty" self from the encounter entirely while low-key self-inserting. All to the end of (understandably) coping with being a straight woman drenched in shame about her sexuality.
That's why westoid fujos ITT who point at Japanese ones as some kind of a paragon of proper noncringe fujoshittery are so funny.
No. 2141017
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>>2140929So what you're saying is, based feminist manhating Stacy fujos write the exact vapid misogynistic straw-sluts they cry about moids writing. It's always guilty conscience projection with them, isn't it?
No. 2141020
>>2140760Can tiktoktoddlers even read the conversation they're a part of? Or do they just not know how imageboard threads work?
>>2140694>All of this turned into the early 2010s with the same female anti-fujos demanding strong female characters and putting female characters in traditionally male roles in their fics and having "femslash weeks"Meaning that non-fujos have
always been doing this. We can discuss the lack of this type of content while also creating it ourselves, idiot.
No. 2141043
>>2140925>I guess they just like the fucked up dynamic,>But most of them seems to be just projecting into these child characters.That's an interesting theory. Early BL works were mostly about rape, too. There's female shotafags that seem to actually want to molest the boys themselves, but then there's a clear difference between that and just the kind that ships the boys with adults, those seem more focused on the dynamic and possibly projecting onto the boy.
I might be wrong, but the inverted sex version seems to be non-existent. When males picture loli characters with another character, it seems to always be an adult man, even if the moid is a tranny and projecting onto the girl. MtF troons are infamous for self-inserting as female children in their pedotroon fantasies, female children that are then raped by men (representing the troon's sex and heterosexuality).
No. 2141044
>>2141028Never happened because I say so, and if it did, yumes, himes, coomers, trannies, moids and your mom did this. TIFs literally have nothing to do with yaoi, just like
omegaverse. No fujo even likes these things, in fact we don't even like anime men. I don't know who makes this stuff, but definitely not fujos, whom I do not represent. Stop posting someone else's (who isn't me) completely not fujo cringe, you are obsessed and rent free and stuff. (Not a fujo btw.)
No. 2141056
>>2141040Nonna, this isn't my theory. This is more or less how people who study the sexuality of Japanese women describe it. Particularly the rape trope in otome - it has a lot more to do with staying "pure" than straight up rape fetishism of western pickmes for example. I'm sure some cross-contamination has occurred by now, but this is more or less the reason behind it being involved in most older female insert stuff.
As far as marriage goes, I'm sure you know it doesn't work exactly the same way in Japan either. Orgasmlessly enduring your husband isn't "slutty".
No. 2141077
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>>2141048Iirc the moid who made her stated that it was inspired by his daughter being born and how he wants her to live in a better world for women, something like that. The portrayal is, of course, occasionally kekworthy and hamfisted the way a man trying hard to create a based female character would do it, but she's still compelling and relatable regardless. Also, reminded me of sinfest for some reason.
No. 2141088
>>2141077The awkward writing is just gonna be endearing to me from now on considering the author's intentions, that's so unexpectedly wholesome compared to the usual mangaka.
>>2141081This, moids can write yaoi off as weird gay shit and leave it as that, but sexy anime men taking their sexy anime women?? That's just going TOO far kek.
>>2139289It's funny because from what I've seen, 99% of Claymore fans, including the moids,
hate Raki kek (as they should because he's a useless screentime leech) so clearly having a moid insert doesn't always work. The most defense I've seen on his behalf is "he wasn't THAT bad."
>>2138890The
fuck? Is she a repressed ssa pedo (genuinely not being homophobic, I'm ssa myself) or is this a particularly degenerate form of pickmeism?
No. 2141089
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>>2140546>only western fujoshi troon outwrong
No. 2141092
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>>2140785>a lot of them don't want to share and aren't interested in hyping each others' self inserts, a lot of yumes on lolcow admit to being fairly possessive of their husbandos of choice.I feel called out.
No. 2141093
>>2141088>>2141081I'm that anon, I agree with you. It seems scrotes on the internet are changing their reasons to get mad, if only ever slightly.
I've actually seen trapfags jack off to the most feminine yaoi boys they could find, but also to pinups of male characters with androgynous faces and muscular bodies… I was like wtf. Were those trapfags I saw really desperate, or are men's sexualities getting more and more retarded every day?
No. 2141097
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>>2141022There's one BL manga I read called Hana No Mizo Shiru which inverts it. One of the main guys starts out with a girlfriend who is portrayed as a kind and sympathetic person, and she breaks up with him
before any gay shit happens in a dignified way (he even apologises for being a bad boyfriend.) Meanwhile, the most prominent male side character is essentially his LI's bitchy predator ex (picrel) who is meant to be unlikeable.
No. 2141100
>>2141093There's a delusion that it's physically possible to create content moids won't jack off to, usually perpetuated by women who hate things for being sexualized by moids even if that wasn't the original intent at all.
In reality, moids fetishize everything including fujoshis (fujoshi moe). Women whose tastes are defined through the lens of being unappealing to males are going to have a truly shit time. You can meme them into anything including castration, people really think they'll avoid "stuff for women by women" if there's sex in it? Topkek
No. 2141109
>>2141043>There's female shotafags that seem to actually want to molest the boys themselves, but then there's a clear difference between that and just the kind that ships the boys with adults, those seem more focused on the dynamic and possibly projecting onto the boy.I'd also add that the projecting onto boys seem to be more numerous imo. Do the female shotafags who seem to want to be involved themselves still are into the typical shota yaoi or are they just fangirling sole shota characters? I honestly don't really remember seeing those female pedos anywhere, maybe they're more crypto than the other type of shotafags.
>>2141056>because of the exact type of repression that drives fujos I don't like this theory because it's detached from my experience, but i suppose i can potentially accept it as a reason for some fujos, i did hear similar explanation about their rape fetish from some women. Perhaps the ones i saw who become ex-fujos after getting a 3dpd ape and start shaming us belong to this group, kek. Those must be the self-inserters also.
I still remember how you assumed anon here was gigarepressed, it was very annoying. So it seems to me you assume this about every fujo you're meeting, even western. Those researchers are just people and their hypothesis is no better than could be written by some rando here after minimal observation, their retarded sociology degress didn't help, i'm confused as to why you take them so seriously like it's a closed case after they supposed this, kek.
No. 2141111
>>2141100I'm that anon
>fujoshi moeJust reading this made me gag
Yeah, scrotes will sexualize literally anything and everything. There's no point in worrying about what scrotes will do with your favorite media, might as well never publish anything at all. What matters is that you and/or your target audience enjoy it.
No. 2141116
>>2141084Hmm, can't say I did. The tragedy and melodrama were compelling, but I mostly sympathized with the two Maries, some background female characters, du Barry, etc. For the most part, it was the pure experience of cheering on Marie-Josephe fucking shit up despite having all the odds stacked against her. I don't know why, but her violent, vengeful, mischievous, non-mopey, utterly high energy nature really resonates with me, particularly her kid version. At the same time she isn't OP or "evil", just the right kind of chaotic. That alone makes me forgive the clumsy elements kek No. 2141125
>>2141109>I honestly don't really remember seeing those female pedos anywhere, maybe they're more crypto than the other type of shotafags.I've seen them on fujochan's hidden shota board when it was new, I've also seen some on Pixiv, and there's shotafags that are obviously into the boys because they ship them with adult female characters. Like one Venti artist that has been talked about here on this board.
>Those must be the self-inserters also.Fuck you, I'm a yume and I hate 3D scrotes.
>I still remember how you assumed anon here was gigarepressedNTA but she never called anyone in this thread "repressed" about anything. She was clearly talking about
Japanese fujos (and women who read TL manga crap) in a general way, not targeting any individuals in particular, and she obviously didn't account for exceptions.
There's no need to be so aggressive.
No. 2141129
>>2140903They don't. You are confusing self insertion with attraction.
The majority of japenese women who consume 18+ smut self-insert as being lolis. And if you don't believe me then you can go look at the otome doujin section on dlsite and its filled with lolis being shipped with handsome bishounen men and those works are made for women and bought for women and many of them are popular too.
I think the most popular loli self-insert doujin manga internationally is that yakuza one where that 35yo blonde haired man has a relationship with that 16yo old girl and their relationship starts when she is as young as…….9
No. 2141137
>>2141129>The majority of japenese women who consume 18+ smut self-insert as being lolis.NTA but you can see this outside Japan as well.
Straight women who are pornsick and consume lots of hentai self-insert as the female, or say they enjoy watching her enjoy the sex and being "jealous". Kinda like how MtF troons see women in porn (I do believe consuming too much pornography can make normal women start to think like men usually do).
I forgot her name but there's this Twitter/YouTube lolcow that is an ultra pickme to the point that she commissioned hentai artists to draw porn of her. Obviously she's starving for moid attention but I believe women like her have genuinely been brainwashed to get off to their own objectification.
>look at the otome doujin section on dlsite and its filled with lolis being shipped with handsome bishounen men and those works are made for women and bought for women and many of them are popular too. I wonder what the hell caused this phenomenon. I refuse to believe all of the readers are female. Maybe they put some of those works in the otome section because scrotoids would be
triggered if they saw the handsome guy in their own section. Maybe the authors, aside from clearly having pornbrain themselves, are trying to attract both audiences for maximum profits? Since they know 99.9999 % of women are conditioned to accept female objectification so they mind much less.
No. 2141146
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>>2141129This might be true for women who like loli but I don't see why those autopedophiles would self-insert as a shota. While not as popular, there are enough older female x shota pairings to make me believe that the majority of female shotacons are attracted to children and self-insert as the older (male) character.
No. 2141152
>>2141146Shotacon made for women is a extremely small number though and dare i say rare.
Majority of straight shotacon is made for straight men by straight men and most gay shotacon is made by gay men for gay men. Female-oriented shotacon is a small niche. There is actually way more female-oriented lolicon than there is shotacon
No. 2141163
>>2141138NTA but that's nothing to defend either
I'm not happy about it. I want quality femgaze porn where the protagonist is female but not sexualized as much as anyone else here, and it's depressing to see the manga section filled to the brim with shit that could've been in the men's section. It doesn't matter if the women in those manga are adults or children, it's all the same.>and even the flat/small chested ones are adult women.The one with the cute tall shy megane has a female MC that is referred to in one of the volumes' description as a "loli". There's a volume where she is undoubtedly the focus and it includes gross pregnancy fetish shit. Flat and small female MCs in these kinds of manga are almost always catering to a loli fetish despite them not being literally children.
>>2141140>there is no epidemic of fujos in asian countries transitioning, you know it.Nobody said there's a fujo TIF epidemic in Asia.
Anon:
>>2140546>only western fujoshi troon out.Me:
>>2141089>wrongWhat the article proves is that:
1. Yaoi in Japan does attract female readers that hate being female and wish they were male (this is probably a minority).
2. Fujo TIFs have existed in Japan way before the current trans trend.
3. Fujos all have different reasons for liking the genre, though many of them seem to show a dissatisfaction with gender roles.
However, I'm not claiming the cause of their transition is yaoi. I'm just saying that anon is painfully wrong about there being no Japanese fujos who troon out, or it being an exclusively western phenomenon. That's a myth, so stop parroting it because you already know it's not true.
Source of the pic:
http://web.archive.org/web/20141101151917/http:/matt-thorn.com/shoujo_manga/outofhand/ No. 2141164
>>2141137>Maybe they put some of those works in the otome section because scrotoids would be triggered if they saw the handsome guy in their own section. Maybe the authors, aside from clearly having pornbrain themselves, are trying to attract both audiences for maximum profits? Since they know 99.9999 % of women are conditioned to accept female objectification so they mind much less.100% i believe this. Josei smut authors are greedy fucks who also want to cater to men too so that's why the female mc in those smuts many times looks like a disgusting cow with boobs bigger than her whole body and waist smaller than her hand. And its also why in those josei smut scenes many times the focus is too much on the womans body and her boobs bouncing like cmon i want to look at the mans body too and i want him sexualised too but there are too many pannels focusing on just the female mcs body and titties.
Like this is supposed to be content for women so why is is the female mc still more sexualised than the male lead.
Also can anyone suggest me a good female oriented josei smut where the male is sexualized just as mich as the fenale mc or even more.
No. 2141167
>>2141121Yeah, i did because i was angry at them, kek. It was an anon from yesterday i think. Sorry. Both of you just brought up the same studies in a relatively short period of time. I stil have hard time buying it, because if western fujos in large numbers can absolutely love yaoi without any repression, japanese women can love it and likely too love it for other reasons than that.
>>2141125>Shotafag partI see. Would be interesting to catch them in the wild, it's a unicorn to me.
>Fuck you, I'm a yume and I hate 3D scrotes.Those one's who're apparently "ashamed of being sluts" must be self-inserting too, not voyeurs, you're just doing it for different reasons.
>NTA but she never called anyone in this thread "repressed" about anything.Yeah, convoluted with another anon from yesterday who got onto my nerves, oops, kek.
>>2141146>make me believe that the majority of female shotacons are attracted to children and self-insert as the older (male) character.It's actually so hard to tell for me. Do you nonnies think someone like Yana Toboso, who's so obviously kind of pedophilic but is also a fujo, might be inserting as Sebastian? The usual shippers seem to be inserting into Ciel, i think.
No. 2141172
>>2141164>Also can anyone suggest me a good female oriented josei smut where the male is sexualized just as mich as the fenale mc or even more.I know of this one
>>1978102 and also the artist's Pixiv gallery linked in the replies.
Though I personally stick to audio works. Otome audio smut with female voices is ultra rare, so most of the time you're just listening to a guy's moans.
>Like this is supposed to be content for women so why is is the female mc still more sexualised than the male lead.I'm so sick of this. I'm trying to improve my own art so I can make smut that's actually good, and it'll hopefully make others realize that it can be done.
No. 2141198
>>2141189Well anon to have this discussion first we have to learn the difference over self-inserting and husbandoing the charachter.
If someone is using ciel as a self-insert then the person they are attracted to is actually sebastian and they are using Ciel as a self-insert, its auto-pedophilic but not actual pedophilia.
But if its something like them imagining themselves having sex with Ciel and are attracted to him without self-insertion then that definitely is weird and yeah they are a shotacon.
Auto-pedophilia is basically the answer to most shotacon or lolicon content made for women. If someone doeant know what autopedophilia is then look it up.
No. 2141206
>>2141189I think very, kek. You can tell.
>I used to crush on obvious shota characters like ciel when I was a child but now that I'm older the appeal is goneSame. I used to like yaoi with him as a kid, but now it'd make me mentally unwell to read. I do think they are mentally stuck, but you could make an argument they're still autopedophilic.
>>2141198I thought autopedophilia still counted because they're still sexualising children?
>>2141195But then by your logic Sebastian inserters/those who ship shotas with women are stuck too if males are stuck. So i don't think it's exactly right.
No. 2141218
>>2141206>I thought autopedophilia still counted because they're still sexualising children?It's a grey area for me because alot of autopedos were brought up either by their environment or the media they consumed to see youth as the most important thing ever and that looking young is the most important thing ever and that gets even worse when they stumble upon porn because it basically solidifies the fact that men are creeps attracted to young girls.
Then those girls become autopedophiles to cope with that and self-insert as children because thats when they feel the most pretty and attractive. Also i think someone can be underage and still be a autopedophile like those coquette and nymphette girls who get off on fantasies about being groomed by old men. Many of those coquette girls are so obsessed with the fantasy of being a young uwu girl dating a older man that they actually end up dating a old man and then end up getting groomed and abused by those men.
No. 2141222
File: 1723945718415.png (150.29 KB, 400x400, worthless.png)
>>2141022There are definitely hateable male side characters out there. I'd take 10 Sakuras over one Mineta or one Jar Jar Binks.
No. 2141265
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>>2139096Sadly it seems to be more common to find characters with this sort of personality in male-made media. For example, Touhou, which isn't sexualized
at all in canon
although it is hella suspicious that all the chars are female and look young has a lot of characters with weird-ass, or "unfeminine" personalities. Marisa is a great example, she often ends her sentences with the rather masculine "ze". Unfortunately, the fandoms for series like this are often are full of scrotes, with a female minority.
>>2139795What initially attracted me to Touhou was the incredible variety of characters, and after getting into it, I was always fascinated by the type of fanart where the girls are using spellcards in the middle of a battle. I also watched some PreCure, not just because it's cute and reminds me of my childhood, but also bc it has a surprising amount of action scenes, it's the girl-oriented equivalent of all those action shows for boys and it shows. So action shows for girls do exist, given the magical girl genre, the problem is that there's practically nothing similar (action-packed, female cast) for adult women. I'd love it if stuff with lots of action and a female main cast wasn't always coomershit.
>>2138558>because girls are willing to read action with a male MC and identify with men while the reverse isn't true.I generally agree with this, but sadly, moids are willing to read action-oriented shows for female audiences because they're perverts and sexualize the main characters. See: PreCure, Sailor Moon, etc. One of the first mahou shoujo anime (Milky Momo?), which was originally aimed at little girls, earned so many lolicon fans that the show's creators started to pander to them since the anime really sold thanks to them (I might be getting this fact wrong, though). But as far as relating goes, yeah, I don't think all these pedoscrotes actually relate to the girls.
>>2140107Yeah, I'm watching Gundam because of the cool robots, sci-fi setting and political overtones, but the cute males are a nice bonus, though I've found them to be severely boring. There
are women who like action or consume media mainly for that, but we are probably not the majority.
>>2141048Sukeban Deka is a shoujo manga (turned into both an anime and a live-action show, with several sequels)
also created by a man. It's about a female high school delinquent solving cases. Pic related.
No. 2141266
File: 1723948499078.png (2.77 MB, 1660x1663, 5545.png)
>>2139788I like messy bitches
No. 2141278
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>>2140541>When female character specific sports genre gets done it's dogshit like Keijo that repels women for very understandable reasonsRETVRN
>>2141271Can any of you read? The question was originally asked by this anon:
>>2141022And she even said
>Why was it always a female character?so she acknowledges that it's an old trope.
No. 2141285
>>2140942Forgot to add that Oooku also has asshole female characters that do fucked up things, and they aren't treated any different in this story from a man with horrible behavior in any other story. That was incredibly refreshing.
>>2140951lol I see. My overall point still stands though, women should be allowed to make up any fantasy they want where they have power over men.
Plus Minho was repeatedly shown to be a piece of shit who deserved it No. 2141289
>>2141278But
was it only the female characters or more common for the female characters in the past? Lmao.
>>2141279The original comment made seem like they're talking about the bl, but does she mean shipping of non-bl media and hating female characters from there? Then it's just shipping wars, yes. They could dunk on male characters too if they ruined their ship.
>>2140951Reee, i wish it was real.
No. 2141306
>>2141289Samefag,
oof, i was trying to write
was.
>>2141303Yes, i think this pretty much nails it.
No. 2141312
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>>2139903nta but thank you
nonnie i just read a really good manga and i wish there were more
No. 2141314
>>2140380 I love black lagoon so much it has the best anime women I need to get hit by a truck and isekied into a side character NOW I need her so bad her pussy looks so juicy pleas I just want devote myself to her oh God is so cruel for not letting me be in rocks place I'm so much better then him pleas please I think she should take me with that whip and kick my stomach in with those shoes nooo why isn't she real??? Why is God so cruel as to allow heaven to exist only in this one anime series Ill be good forever if you promise to reincarnate me into the black lagoon universe please I want herrr so bad pleas God please I'll treat her right I want her to put her gun in my mouth and threaten to pull the
trigger pixels have never looked so sexy she's chained up because if she was loose she'd be destroying too many pussies literally need her RN I'm in pain I'm so ready please truck-kun alleviate me from my suffering this instance and allow me to transcend. Please revy just let me lick ur shoes just this once
No. 2141334
>>2140970>No "coomer" waifufag believes moids write feminist iconsThat's what they don't get. The fujos in this thread really believe that female fans of pretty much any female character in anime automatically co-sign every single aspect of their characters. Take Balalaika as this thread's example: I like enough traits about her to overlook the fact that she is hypersexualized in a lot of the art Rei made of her. Her hypersexualization is not enough, to me, to throw the baby out with the bathwater and dismiss her character altogether, because it's a small part of the bigger picture. But big boobs and a hint of cleavage and some bikini poses in noncanon fanservice art is enough for these fujos to dismiss her altogether as a "worthless coomshit shitty female character for moids" just because Rei apparently "had a dommy mommy fetish." Like, I didn't even know that, so does it even matter if it wasn't obviously apparent to me beforehand? The whole extent of his fetish is not played out through her enough, to me, to make an obvious impact on her character. She's intrigued by Rock but he's just scared of her and literally nothing happens between them. If anything, she was trying to force the tension between them to be sexual just to make him uncomfortable and to make sense of her discomfort with him. They don't have sex or have any sexual tension beyond that one scene where she's leaning over him and smoking. And calling a female character in a position of power automatically "dommy mommy" reeks of talking out of both sides of their mouth because we know all of these people are the same ones who use the excuse that there are no dominant female characters anywhere in media. But now they have to pivot to a new excuse as to why they hate every female character. And they'll just keep coming up with new excuses until it covers every female character because they're just trying to justify and rationalize an irrational dislike of female characters. What's the real reason? Probably a combination of a lot of things: disliking other women (misogyny), not wanting to "compare" themselves to other women, or just plain being straight as a pencil and being into fiction only for the coom (which is rare enough that I don't buy it). Which is fine, but like, admit that like some anons in this thread already have instead of bending over backwards to justify your endless excuses for an ultimately irrational hatred of nearly every female character.
No. 2141337
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>more sympathy and nuance for female shotafags in this thread by the "hecking fujos aren't a hecking monolith" crowd than women who like female characters
This website is cooked
No. 2141354
File: 1723954406850.png (954.32 KB, 739x741, Female characters.png)
>>2139788Here're some of mine. I apologize for only one of them, i just like that she's so insane, kek.
>>2141350I actually agree, i do feel so free if i imagine myself being big-breastes anime woman killing everyone i don't like with such ease.
No. 2141374
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>>2140614Populate and discuss in the hetero cute/hot couples thread with me.
No. 2141384
File: 1723955705551.jpg (436.94 KB, 1125x1125, kap.jpg)
>wahh they're problematic!!
Idc. Also Hange is female, fight me.
No. 2141386
>>2141384Is it really a common take to call Haruka and Homura
problematic? All I've seen is that they're fan favorites.
No. 2141393
>>2141379nta but you don’t understand her at all. I do though. I understand.
>>2141384hange-san…. my love. btw I remember liking Ezra so much as a kid that I straight up ragequit the manga when I found out that she was being paired with that blue haired freak
No. 2141401
File: 1723957989547.jpg (182.29 KB, 1236x1117, meow.JPG)
>>2141385I'll never get over them.
No. 2141409
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>>2141385>>2141401Original Homestuck still holds up imo. Especially the first half. I guarantee you, there's shit you like that's more cringe.
No. 2141412
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>>2141386They're created by coomer moid trannies, just like horrible shallow dumb titty shit Utena
No. 2141414
File: 1723958823560.png (323.59 KB, 473x700, Vriska-Serket-vriska-serket-30…)
>>2141401vriska was a formative character for me as a teenager. I also will never get over her.
No. 2141416
>>2141407Honestly a rare example of an opposite-sex friendship done well. Nepeta and Equius are low-key bullied by the other trolls for being too weird (somewhat justified in Equius' case kek), but they still have each other. I like the "yes no" running gag with them, and as much as people hate
Davepeta, I actually really liked when they reunited with Arquius.. I also think it's funny when Equius tries to roleplay.
No. 2141417
File: 1723959403068.png (609.22 KB, 1280x1395, 7325389963633.PNG)
>>2141412>horrible shallow dumb titty shit UtenaYou never watched Utena.
No. 2141422
>>2141350We used to call this trolling. People used to say:
>Don't feed the trollWhat could that possibly mean…?
No. 2141424
>>2141379No.
>>2141404Thank you,
nonnie ♥♥♥ You reminded me of this manga, i didn't read until the end, i think it was only starting to get translated back then, but i did like her! Shall start rereading it, tysm!
>>2141417Nta, but i heard such mixed reviews about Utena, a lot of people don't like it even after watching it. WHy would this show be received so ambigiously? I don't know if i should watch it or not.
No. 2141430
>>2141427It's almost like women put higher expectations on themselves to create the morally perfect content and are afraid of stepping out of bounds by writing "
problematic" characters whereas moids literally just write an interesting male character and slap big tits on them and a few lines about how being attracted to other girls is so taboo (which actually mirrors gay men's experience more than lesbians who are more fetishized but whatever). I don't think Utena is a "feminist masterpiece because I don't think feminist masterpieces can be written by men, even gay men. I don't think a truly feminist masterpiece anime/manga has been made yet.
No. 2141432
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>>2141419you are so right. I think her character arc went a bit downhill after Act Five, but picrel is still a gem for me.
No. 2141442
>>2141334Agree with every single point in your post except:
>And calling a female character in a position of power automatically "dommy mommy" reeks of talking out of both sides of their mouth because we know all of these people are the same ones who use the excuse that there are no dominant female characters anywhere in media.Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but if your example is literally the creation of a pornsick scrote with a femdom fetish, you don't really have a leg to stand on. I don't think you should stop liking Balalaika nor do I want to call her "coomershit" just to make you mad unlike some retards. I understand that she has traits to like and traits to dislike, and the latter (in the story itself and not side material) is not prominent enough for most to be repulsed by it. But she's not the appropriate type of character to use as a counterargument that strong, badass female characters that aren't coombait exist. It only proves their point. They aren't "automatically" calling her a "dommy mommy"
just because she's powerful, it's because the author is literally a coomer who loves moid-oriented femdom and he shows it in his own official art. There are better badass female characters out there that were not made by a coomer at all, and disprove their argument.
However, you're right in that they often try to move the goalposts until it's clear that no female character will ever be good enough for them (I've seen some even straight up admit that they hate ALL female characters, others say they will only like a female character that is exactly like them in looks and personality). It's just that Balalaika wasn't a good example to use here.
No. 2141446
>>2141442Good points. However, counterpoint:
When moids enjoy Lolita, Fight Club, American Psycho, The Boys, Joker and whatever other "based" incel pfp slop, do they really care what the authors intended? No, they just invade, interpret it completely wrong and in a way that suits them, then shill it enough that the original meaning is completely forgotten.
No. 2141447
File: 1723961848358.gif (11.1 KB, 650x450, IMG_9189.gif)
>>2141442> There are better badass female characters out there that were not made by a coomer at all, most of the "approved" female characters/media being discussed in these threads - like utena, sailor moon (the anime at least), homestuck - were created by coomer moids who build their own waifus and fetishize lesbians
>>2141412 . most anons can clearly separate the art from the artist
No. 2141456
>>2141446Well yeah, because moids are too retarded to realize "hey, that character you're using as an example was actually intended as satire to criticize this sort of behavior".
>>2141447I didn't say you couldn't like a character made by a coomer if the character is tasteful enough, though. I actually support it.
No. 2141464
>>2141458Well, that's
valid. Everything is not for everyone.
No. 2141465
>>2141452The manga was, but it's like… Barely anything in common with the anime. It was just a normal good shoujo, the story of which severely diverges from the anime, not the Evangelion with swords we all envision when we hear "Utena".
That being said, I'm sure Chiho had plenty of input on the anime (being in Be-Papas), but iirc most of the anime characterization and development is absent from the manga.
No. 2141475
I realize people would actually listen to rec posts if we posted screenshots or pages that they might find interesting.
>>2141465Oh, alright, thanks for clarifying.
No. 2141482
File: 1723965012811.jpg (62.15 KB, 289x391, 828282.JPG)
>>2141402some people used to insist she was nonbinary and some still even get butthurt if you say she's a woman kek. i think isayama went along with it because he just didn't care
No. 2141503
>>2141501nobody is saying that, it's just a thought experiment. this anon
>>2141484 is the one who made the bulge comparison, saying "i'm uncomfortable with big breasts just like men are uncomfortable with big bulges/dicks" but the fact is that men aren't uncomfortable with big dicks on their self-inserts at all, even if their own dicks are small. although it's doubly ironic because ime breast envy is not much of a thing but penis envy very much is, so you'd think women would be more indifferent to big boobs
No. 2141518
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>>2141265>One of the first mahou shoujo anime (Milky Momo?), which was originally aimed at little girls, earned so many lolicon fans that the show's creators started to pander to themEh, Minky Momo had otaku references from the start. I don’t even think they really pandered to lolicons as much as just general otaku culture.
No. 2141520
>>2141409I’ve attempted to read Homestuck multiple times and let me tell you, in my humble opinion it absolutely doesn’t.
Homestuck is one of those things that I will truly never understand the appeal of, at most I can guess that kids aged 11 to 16 got really obsessed with it while it was running and they have deep seeded nostalgia for it now.
No. 2141531
>>2141427Utena is pretty mediocre, only really interesting part of the entire franchise is the movie.
>>2141452The manga was basically made as an ad for the anime despite releasing first, the concepts were all written by Ikuhara and then he basically had the mangaka who was part of his group adapt them for the manga while giving vague plot details. The manga is closer to traditional shoujo likely because of this.
No. 2141534
>>2141526>i can see why someone reading all of it back in 2024 would be like this is stupid or clicheI tried to read it back in 2011 and tried again in 2014 though kek
It’s just not a good series.
>not only in western media but in animeYeah I don’t buy that, homestuck never took off in Japan, it doesn’t even have any doujins made for it.
No. 2141544
>>2141534trying to read something is not the same as actually reading it. homestuck is notoriously hard to get into, it even used to be a meme that people thought it was bullshit until they actually got into it
>It’s just not a good series.you can't make that judgement though if you only "tried" to read it
>Yeah I don’t buy thatokay with the "anime" part i was talking about one time i read someone say attack on titan was inspired by homestuck design-wise (white eyes symbolizing dead characters) but i was mostly talking about western media. for example, homestuck started a webcomics trend, and a lot of good ones like ava's demon came out in the early 2010s era. vriska inspired a ton of characters, undyne from undertale being the most obvious example, toby fox lived with andrew hussie for a period of time and did music for homestuck. steven universe, gravity falls, bojack horseman, hazbin hotel, my little pony, the locked tomb and even bluey referenced homestuck. not to mention homestuck had canon lesbians (rose and kanaya) before steven universe, undertale, adventure time, mlp and korra did and a long time before she-ra ever came out and given the fact that most of those creators either worked on or were fans of homestuck, hs and rosemary becoming canon is probably the entire reason korrasami, alphyne, bubbline, catradora, appledash etc were actually canonized
No. 2141548
>>2141544>homestuck is notoriously hard to get intoI don’t know man if I can regularly read 50+ hour visual novels but homestuck is so horribly ugly, unfunny and boring that I can’t read past act 4 then it’s probably a sign that it’s pretty shit.
>for example, homestuck started a webcomics trend, and a lot of good ones like ava's demon came out in the early 2010s era.Sure, I’m not a big webcomic person but I think that’s fair. They were definitely a thing before but I think it’s reasonable to insinuate that homestuck popularized it for a hot minute.
>steven universe, gravity falls, bojack horseman, hazbin hotel, my little pony, the locked tomb and even bluey referenced homestuckAnd now we’re back to things that seem like either outright lies or absolute cope, I could see it for Hazbin but Gravity falls? I don’t think Alex Hirsch even knows what homestuck is kek
>not to mention homestuck had canon lesbiansIt also had canon trannies what’s your point
>hs and rosemary becoming canon is probably the entire reason korrasami, alphyne, bubbline, catradora, appledash etc were actually canonized>this is what homestuckfags actually believe No. 2141551
>>2141547It’s true, the anime and manga are like 5/10s while the movie is probably a 7 or 8.
Issue with Utena is that it has like zero budget so every episode is repetitive as fuck (yes I know it’s for symbolic reasons as well but that doesn’t stop it from being a dull slog to watch) and Nanami is the one of the worst characters I’ve ever seen in anime.
No. 2141555
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>>2141548>And now we’re back to things that seem like either outright lies or absolute cope, I could see it for Hazbin but Gravity falls? I don’t think Alex Hirsch even knows what homestuck is kek i don't know why you would find it unbelievable, most people know what homestuck is by this point
No. 2141556
File: 1723973967530.png (2.78 MB, 2123x1550, 5VnZz0Y.png)
According to academic Helen Joyce, there are no "men" in BL stories. She says that most fan fiction arises from a misplaced sense of self among women and inherent neuroticism. But in specifically BL stories, it is either a woman in drag with a man or two women in drag playing the part of men.
No. 2141557
>>21415551. None of these even remotely resemble homestuck
2. Gravity falls was pretty likely in development before homestuck got popular
I legit can’t tell if I’m being trolled or if Homestuck fans actually believe this holy shit.
No. 2141559
File: 1723974195992.jpeg (51.21 KB, 500x375, IMG_9293.jpeg)
>>2141548> It also had canon trannies what’s your pointno, it didn't. the stupid epilogues have trannies and hussie doesn't even write those
>hs and rosemary becoming canon is probably the entire reason korrasami, alphyne, bubbline, catradora, appledash etc were actually canonized>this is what homestuckfags actually believe because it's true lmao. pendleton ward was a big fan of homestuck, here's his doodles of jade, and there were absolutely no plans to canonize bubbline or even recognize it at the time rosemary became canon. i can also show steven universe references to homestuck if you want
No. 2141560
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>>2141557girl wtf, i didn't say gravity falls developed because of homestuck, i said it referenced homestuck
here's dave strider in steven universe
No. 2141563
File: 1723974548294.jpeg (122.96 KB, 724x856, IMG_9853.jpeg)
>>2141559>the stupid epilogues have trannies and hussie doesn't even write thoseSeems kinda cope.
>because it's true lmao. pendleton ward was a big fan of homestuck, here's his doodles of jadeYou know homestuck didn’t invent lesbians right?
>>2141560But it clearly didn’t based on the pictures you posted, are you ESL or something? I pretty clearly meant Gravity falls was in development before homestuck was popularized so it’s even less likely that homestuck was referenced.
I’m not denying homestuck was popular because it obviously was, but I think saying ‘homestuck is the reason for every canon lesbian ship ever’ is pretty stupid.
No. 2141571
>>2141563hussie doesn't write the epilogues, it's not cope. he let his tranny friends take the reins and do whatever they want. that doesn't mean that was the original intent for those characters
>But it clearly didn’t based on the pictures you posted, are you ESL or something? I pretty clearly meant Gravity falls was in development before homestuck was popularized so it’s even less likely that homestuck was referenced.if you want to deny the references (even though the dave one is especially obvious) out of some weird spite you have against homestuck or its fans then… okay? i'm not making shit up. also gravity falls being in "development" for years doesn't mean they couldn't have snuck a topical reference in, wtf? lmao
>I’m not denying homestuck was popular because it obviously was, but I think saying ‘homestuck is the reason for every canon lesbian ship ever’ is pretty stupid.not every canon ship ever, but the ones i listed (especially alphyne). homestuck was literally huge in 2012 and tons of people in the western animation industry were fans and its fandom has largely died down since then. you're vastly underestimating its popularity back then because you only remember it being an annoyance. the fact that it was the first phenomenon its kind in the toon world to have canon lesbians was a huge deal at the time. can you name any equivalent canon mainstream lesbian cartoon relationship that happened before rosemary becoming canon in 2011?
No. 2141573
>>2141567Even if she is right (which I don’t think she is) why does it matter and why should I care?
Let’s assume that fujos are just all projecting onto yaoi boys, why does that matter? Because it makes some random old bitty pissy?
No. 2141574
>>2141558are you actually 12? or one of those zoomers who believe that every thought & feeling they have is
valid and if you challenge it you're a bigot? no one said you can't keep enjoying your BL, and it's weird that a woman looking at BL creation/consumption on an academic level is a "cunt" cause she doesn't see your gay husbandos as Real True Men
No. 2141580
File: 1723975588794.jpeg (58.43 KB, 538x540, IMG_9854.jpeg)
>>2141571>he let his tranny friends take the reins and do whatever they want. I don’t see how that’s that different, not to mention that he confirmed multiple characters were trannies over twitter….
>if you want to deny the references (even though the dave one is especially obvious)Homestuck didn’t invent records
>but the ones i listed (especially alphyne)I feel like alphyne is more just from Toby fox being into yuri, I honestly think there would be yuri in his games regardless of if homestuck existed or not.
>you're vastly underestimating its popularity back then because you only remember it being an annoyance.How am I underestimating it kek. Because I know for a fact that it was never popular in Japan and wasn’t referenced in Gravity falls?
>the fact that it was the first phenomenon its kind in the toon world to have canon lesbians Did you just forget that tons of anime had canon lesbians before it or
>can you name any equivalent canon mainstream lesbian cartoon relationship that happened before rosemary becoming canon in 2011?Was rosemary even canon in 2011 kek
Anyway there was a lesbian couple on 6teen back in the day.
No. 2141583
File: 1723976004961.webp (1.19 KB, 151x235, IMG_9297.webp)
>>2141580>I don’t see how that’s that different, not to mention that he confirmed multiple characters were trannies over twitter….literally the same as jk rowling saying dumbledore was actually gay 10 years later
>Homestuck didn’t invent recordsyou're trolling at this point lmfao
>>2141560>but the ones i listed (especially alphyne)>I feel like alphyne is more just from Toby fox being into yuri, I honestly think there would be yuri in his games regardless of if homestuck existed or not.toby fox literally lived with hussie and worked on hoemstuck's soundtracks lol. undyne is a carbon copy of vriska (+ maybe meenah) and megalomania was vriska's theme before it was sans's. no doubt he was heavily influenced by hussie's writing at the time. you're just seeming in denial at this point because you want to deny homestuck's impact
>How am I underestimating it kek.because you're trying to deny the impact it has had by even trying to deny the most obvious references
>Did you just forget that tons of anime had canon lesbians before it or i thought you agreed we're talking about western cartoons, not anime?
>Was rosemary even canon in 2011 kekyes
>Anyway there was a lesbian couple on 6teen back in the day.i know you're seriously not comparing 6teen's nonexistent impact to homestuck's lmfao
No. 2141589
>>2141583>literally the same as jk rowling saying dumbledore was actually gay 10 years laterYes and? Everyone knows Dumbledore as gay wizard now don’t they?
>toby fox literally lived with hussie and worked on hoemstuck's soundtracks lol. Already knew that but that has nothing to do with Toby liking yuri. Undertale’s the more popular and influential work in general when compared to Homestuck, there’s a reason why people know megalovania from Undertale and not homestuck or the earthbound hack.
>i thought you agreed we're talking about western cartoons, not anime?I don’t believe I stated that? Simply that Homestuck had zero influence on anime nor a fandom outside of a tiny niche in Japan. I’m just saying it’s definitely not the first series to depict lesbians by any means (including western animation/comics).
>i know you're seriously not comparing 6teen's nonexistent impact to homestuck's lmfao6teen actually aired on television while Homestuck was a webcomic, I think it’s fairly fair to say that it’s likely more people have seen 6teen even if only in passing. I honestly think it’s a stretch to say either had a large impact on lesbians in cartoons or whatever since neither of them invented being a lesbian kek.
No. 2141597
>>2141589> that has nothing to do with Toby liking yuri. Undertale’s the more popular and influential work in general when compared to Homestuck, there’s a reason why people know megalovania from Undertale and not homestuck or the earthbound hack.i was talking about influence lmao. rosemary became canon 4 years before undertale was released. toby literally coded undertale when he was still living in hussie's basement and was still working on homestuck music and undyne is obviously heavily inspired by vriska so yes i think it's fair to say that homestuck impacted his writing decisions including the decision to canonize a lesbian relationship
>Simply that Homestuck had zero influence on anime nor a fandom outside of a tiny niche in Japan.ok but we weren't talking about anime at all and haven't been for many posts
>I’m just saying it’s definitely not the first series to depict lesbians by any means (including western animation/comics). when did i say homestuck was THE FIRST? i said it and rosemary's big onscreen kiss is likely THE REASON that all these western cartoon lesbian relationships (starting with korrasami) suddenly started being canonized out of nowhere. rose/kanaya was the most popular canon ship at the time and the ship's impact was huge. the fact that when i asked you to name a canon cartoon ship in western media before rosemary and the best you could do up was pull up some background 6teen ship nobody ever cared about proves my point. rosemary was the first of its kind in the modern western media (toon-adjacent) sphere, featuring two narratively prominent female characters that he easily could have shoved into het relationships but didn't
No. 2141603
>>2141597>so yes i think it's fair to say that homestuck impacted his writing decisions including the decision to canonize a lesbian relationshipDid you ever consider that they were just both yurifags to begin with kek
>rose/kanaya was the most popular canon ship at the timeI literally had never heard of it until the Sarah Z video. Also most popular canon ship? Maybe for homestuck itself but there’s obviously other canon ships even at the time that were more popular granted a lot of it was probably filler ships and MCU hetship stuff, but my point still stands. I can tell you that when Homestuck was popular the main ships I always saw were the two main human boys, the incest one with Dave and PBJ (I think that’s what it’s called) so even in its own fandom I find it hard to buy that it was the ‘most popular’ ship.
No. 2141626
>>2141603>Did you ever consider that they were just both yurifags to begin with kekthere's a difference between being a yurifag and making the deliberate decision to make a ship in one of your works canon
>I literally had never heard of it until the Sarah Z video.that's your problem
>Also most popular canon ship? Maybe for homestuck itself but there’s obviously other canon ships even at the time that were more popular granted a lot of it was probably filler ships and MCU hetship stuff, but my point still stands.i said it was the most popular canon ship in homestuck at the time. now it's probably vriska/terezi because that became canon at the tail end of the comic and time has passed
>I can tell you that when Homestuck was popular the main ships I always saw were the two main human boys, the incest one with Dave and PBJ (I think that’s what it’s called) so even in its own fandom I find it hard to buy that it was the ‘most popular’ ship.pbj (while gamzee did have a canon crush on tavros) and stridercest were not canon. rosemary was canon. there's a lot of things you "can't buy" that actually happened. you weren't even in the homestuck fandom in its heyday and neither were most of the people who didn't even read the comic who "shipped" nonsensical shit like stridercest back then just because they were 2 cute boys. they eventually moved on to dirkjake which actually did become canon, but it's funny because even when dirkjake was popular - a canon m/m ship - rosemary still dwarfed it in popularity
No. 2141634
>>2141632kek nonna these are great
love Jasper and Queen Chrysalis so much but i have to know: why only Blue Zircon?
No. 2141659
>>2141637Some of them are very resourceful and intelligent, or scientists/engineers which I think it's cool, some are bold and brave, or simply quite unconventional
>>2141634Tbh I just like her more than green zircon
No. 2141660
>>2141574>>2141578Modern radfems and gc are such a joke. Too busy talking about meaningless shit such as wanting to control women and what media they consume instead of calling out your right-wing friends who are actively trying to take women's rights away.
Such a pathetic joke of a movement, the right and misoginy are growing worldwide but all radfems can focus on is what to shit on women for or talk about troons 24/7 because you are all tradthots. There is nothing radical or critical about you.
No. 2141664
File: 1723984615252.webp (Spoiler Image,111.34 KB, 1173x1920, Yellow_Zircon.png)
>>2141659she is yellow nona
No. 2141680
>>2141660I agree with you,
nonny. Radfem spaces are, surprisingly, just as misogynistic as everywhere else on the internet.
No. 2141686
>>2141682>>2141677Hey retarded bitch, is this your echo chamber? You dont get to tell people when they can stop their conversation or not. If you dont like that you can go back to depths of ratblr or ratwt.
Also we didnt even bring you up, it was your unhinged gender criticals who brought up that one woman who is obsessed with troons and said that fujos are tifs bla bla ukes are women bla bla and then you and them started malding and seething when some anons started trolling you by insulting her and calling her a cunt kek.
(infighting) No. 2141700
>>2141699So you are old cunt
nonnie?
(infight bait) No. 2141736
File: 1723989546469.jpg (13.08 KB, 250x341, R (2).jpg)
>>2141730my wifes is obscure but thats fine since i dont get to see gendie art
No. 2141749
>>2141548Nta. There are no trannies in the original comic, just in the "Epilogues" (which are actually the beginning of the sequel.)
>I don’t know man if I can regularly read 50+ hour visual novels but homestuck is so horribly ugly, unfunny and boring that I can’t read past act 4 then it’s probably a sign that it’s pretty shitKek still a skill issue, sorry. Did you get bored a third of the way into Watchmen because there were no animu boys?
>>2141544>rosemary becoming canon is probably the entire reason korrasami, alphyne, bubbline, catradora, appledash etc were actually canonizedJfc anon there's no need to reach this hard. This isn't true and you know it. Alphyne is the only pairing this might apply to.
>steven universe, gravity falls, bojack horseman, hazbin hotel, my little pony, the locked tomb and even bluey referenced homestuckAll this means is that at least one background artist or prop designer is a fan. There are Easter eggs in the backgrounds of shows like that all the time. This is also a reach.
>>2141557We don't. Anon is being retarded.
No. 2141769
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>>2141563Your picrel is actually just an Easter egg of John with a mullet, because he had a mullet in one of the flashes. The person is clearly making a joke.
No. 2141776
>>2141556All this "bl men aren't man enough to be men" reeks of ugly male psych ops and it has been working. It's surprising that there's an entire thread dedicated to "don't let women be brainwashed into having to not like pretty men" when one of the reasons is because of shit like this constantly pushing "if you like men that are remotely feminine, it says shit about you." the concept of "pretty uke" is basically dying and being replaced with roidpigs, old men, balding, and body hair.
Imagine if a man said the same about f/m that people do bl, that if you like pretty men you just like women in drag, nonnas would be enraged.
(fujo derailing after farmhand warning) No. 2141805
>>2141776>All this "bl men aren't man enough to be men" reeks of ugly male psych opsLooking up Helen Joyce (
https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/joyce-activated-issue-29/), I get the feeling you are projecting a different meaning from what she intended here kek
>>2141556 No. 2141843
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Could the male-only nonas post their favourite men for female-only nonas to reply with their opinions? I’m curious what you think about our favs beyond ‘man = bad’. It is only because they have XY chromosomes? Or do you dislike specific male archetypes? Are there any male characters you tolerate? Asking in good faith!
No. 2141863
File: 1723996380022.webp (7.56 KB, 210x240, IMG_0723.webp)
>>2141730She reminds me of women in my family and moids hate her for her negative traits while ignoring the equally exaggerated negative traits of Bill and Dale. I always work overtime loving female characters that male fans dislike
No. 2141885
>>2141812>>a-actually I didn't mean it that way, here's a link! Read so I don't have to bother to actually say anything worth merit!>The way you said it should be enough to get the pointI am not that anon kek what, I just sent the link as an example of what
>>2141556 ‘s intention probably was. I actually had a different interpretation of it than both you and what Helen said in that article, and disagree with some of what Helen said. And
>The way you said it should be enough to get the pointThis argument doesn’t work if you’re just making up shit in your head to misinterpret what the person’s saying, like what you just did with my reply kek
No. 2141886
>>2141843I wouldn't think female only nonnas would read much stuff with only male characters tbh.
Though, a legitimate not clearly just an antifujo thread discussing that sort of thing with both female and male characters might be interesting, I'd guess most of it would just be "I didn't read/watch it because they look bad."
No. 2141962
>>2141921Well, if this gets a second thread, probably posting a female character and a male character that are similiar would be a better bet. That, or maybe genderbent characters to show how they'd be reacted to differently.
Just, having a female character might dissuade the thread from being 80% about fujoshi.
No. 2141993
>>2141987well, the resident fujoanon who stays camped out in this thread disagrees and thinks they're 100% pure blooded heterosexual men
>>2141986 . battle to the death
(fujo derailing after farmhand warning) No. 2142021
>>2142000This, I have my preferences but just because I do doesn't mean I don't keep track of good yuri, het, or even moid slop romcoms. A fun story is a fun story, and I make sure to check anything that seems interesting regardless of sexuality.
This idea that you
have to be in line both sexually and morally with the stories you're reading about is incredibly bizarre and just puts you in a bubble of repetitive stories.
No. 2142079
File: 1724004519042.gif (1.87 MB, 245x236, 4df86968bd1b4ee15ea7cfffa696ed…)
>Anons continuing the derail after being redtexted twenty times
No. 2142102
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>>2141551>Nanami is the one of the worst characters I’ve ever seen in anime.You take that back.
No. 2142107
>>2142102Her egg episode was honestly one of the worst episodes I’ve ever seen in an anime
And I usually like himederes and brocon characters
No. 2142113
>>2142110The entire point of brocon characters is that they’re obsessed with their brother, they don’t HAVE to be incestuous though.
Nanami fucking sucks either way.
No. 2142132
>>2142108>noo its not my 90's shota manga doujinshi so its automatically bad ewww non-japanese.Anons will post shit like this then wonder where have all the quality husbandofags or fujos gone or why the fujo thread is mostly the same three people posting about the same visual novel and manga over and over again + rancefag.
I really want to see your male characters because i know for a fact its either going to be from some seinen or from some doujin slop from the 90's.
No. 2142145
>>2142141I don’t care if a ship is yuri or not, I just don’t like Anthy or Nanami as characters.
At least Anthy gets a bit better in the movie, while Nanami is a cow.
No. 2142161
>>2141992nayrt but the OP of that thread was a self hating bisexual because i knew her on discord kek. she also wanted to peg men. the entire thread is an act of her massive cope.
anyway i'm a femslash fan but i think fujos and yumes are cool. they're also not the reason female characters in media suck or don't get attention from fans and i don't understand why they get so much hate. it's just horizontal hostility in my eyes. the real reason female characters in media suck is because moids are so anal about female characters not having their own personalities and instead write them to be obsessed with other moids. when was the last time two female characters on-screen, who weren't related, had a conversation about something that would bring them closer together within the narrative? i can't even remember.
women on screen are written like a moid's anxiety takes over when he's not the center of attention, making them completely unrelatable, leaving the female fans with no desire to write about them getting with other women because they have no connection or foundations to their relationship.
examples:
>in s3 of nbc hannibal a moid wrote the "lesbian" character having sex with will (i even searched this writer up and he pissed off MARVEL fans for writing their faves OOC. he fucked up actual blank slate marvel characters. what a shit writer), and then after he was removed from the writing team the f/f couple were STILL written where they would have sex and then immediately talk about will or hannibal afterwards. the fuck?>in the legend of korra, korra and asami passed the bechdel test in person once and that was near the end of the series when korra was hurt, all other times they spoke about the moid characters. korra had more connection with the evil water tribe guy than asami. she had more connection with bolin than asami.>killing eve. after s2 ended, eve and oksana's relationship was shafted in favour of centering eve's new boyfriend, and then oksana was killed off after 2 shit seasons of OOC writing. the writers even wrote oksana killing off a bunch of women she slept with. the male side characters were developed more than eve and oksana's relationship. the actresses had to adlib their own brief kiss because the writers just didn't develop their relationship at all.that's the real issue to focus on. female characters get served slop while male characters are granted development, because moids get scared when women exist outside of them.
if anything fujos and yumes are always telling himejos to make their own stuff, which i agree with. hollywood and other scrote industries like gacha games and anime are lost causes, you can't even write about a female character being a casual misanderist without moids flinging their shit and then jacking off to hentai afterwards to self soothe like braindead retards.
in my opinion there should be more communities based around lesbian/bi nonnas drawing and creating stories together. after all, doujin circles exist in japan where a group of people collaborate to make something (music, games, comics) which builds their skills, and i've seen some creators within a doujin circle successfully go solo as a result, there's no reason why a group of himejoshi can't do that. even within the josei genre, most stories focus on women's realistic lives and japanese publishers have even rewarded readers with a cash prize if they sent in their stories to be adapted into a comic, women's lives are taken seriously in genres that cater to them. more himejos should learn from them, copy what we like, and then adapt what we like in our own stories.
in general it's also hard work creating art, it requires a lot of vulnerability and effort, it's not easy doing it alone.
unfortunately trannies are always sexually harassing lesbians off the internet (seen it happen yearly ever since 2014) unless we draw futashit or we're an ebil
terf who deserves doxxing and rape threats. there needs to be more pushback against trannies instead of pushback against fujos for minding their own business. if anything fujos can relate to himejos because we both suffer from troonshit pushed on us in the name of inclusion because some freak has a futa or cuntboy fetish.
the real issues regarding lack of decent female character writing, which affects all women, and within fandom contexts, both himejos and yumejos (because yumejos get subjected to those shitty malegaze ""otomes"") ARE:
>moids who are hired to write slop>editors who approve the slop>editors who suppress dissenting opinion about how female characters should be written (because they're the ACTUAL misogynists here)>entitled moids and trannies who push their fetishes on usall media is a collaborative project. the ones in charge dictate what gets written, approved, edited, poduced, distributed, and broadcast.
No. 2142173
File: 1724009555547.jpg (171.8 KB, 750x1093, best thing to come out of uten…)
>>2142159>Utena can never become a prince because she's a female and all "princes" are misogynist rape apesShe can never become a prince because the roles themselves are misogynistic, it's more a criticism of gender roles themselves rather than 'all men are rape apes' which isn't even true in the actual anime itself.
Miki isn't a rape ape, the guy who had a crush on Utena's friend was the only one considered 'pure' in the black rose arc, Mitsuru isn't a rape ape either.
It honestly seems like you haven't watched the anime and are just making assumptions based on random articles you've read, since yuri isn't even a big focus in Utena's anime.
No. 2142183
>>2142177>or they are being groomed into becoming that wayLiterally never happens, nothing in the show implies that the characters I mentioned are going to become rape apes. At most you can argue that Miki was assraped himself since it happens in one of the novels (by Saionji I think) and he probably gets pegged by his sister offscreen.
>I'm talking about the anime so I have no idea why you're bringing up the manga when the majority of Utena fans agree the anime was an adaptation that was better than the original. Only thing relating to the manga that I brought up is that Touga is the main love interest in it.
No. 2142191
>>2142183I see you're too much of an autist to detect themes. Also I'm not talking about the novels or obscure game or musicals or whatever the fuck, I'm talking about the anime.
Utena and Anthy are endgame and Touga is a washed up loose-ended fag.
No. 2142196
>>2142191>I see you're too much of an autist to detect themesSeems more like you’re just terrible at interpreting themes if you seriously walk away from Utena with ‘ALL MEN ARE RAPE APES YURI FOR LIFE’
>Utena and Anthy are endgameOnce again why am I supposed to care? Just because a ship is semi canon doesn’t mean that it’s good kek, even then calling Anthy and Utena ‘endgame’ feels like a cope since it’s left pretty vague and open in the anime ending.
No. 2142213
>>2142201>hetshipperI’m mainly a fujoshi, but I don’t hate hetships.
>>2142202You’re acting like they fucked on screen kek, at least Akio got to fuck Utena and Anthy.
>>2142208How is being hunted down by a mob of humans not a tragic backstory?
No. 2142228
>>2142217Never said it did
>>2142226Never said it was, I just think it’s funny that Anthyfags act like Utena is a purely yuri anime yet the on screen sex scenes are all het.
No. 2142229
>>2142213doesn't surprise me, you're autistically obsessed with moids even at the expense of much more interesting female characters, why would you not be a fujo
>>2142222i mean they've been consistent from the start that they think it's actually straight women who are oppressed by le evil femslash yurifag lesbincels so it makes sense they'd whiteknight for the blandest hetships on the planet as well
(fujo derailing) No. 2142233
>>2142229>you're autistically obsessed with moids even at the expense of much more interesting female charactersThere’s plenty of female characters I like, I just don’t like Anthy and Nanami. I don’t get why Utenafags act like it’s so shocking that you prefer the one mildly funny character in the anime to the obnoxious cow and boring incest chick.
>i mean they've been consistent from the start that they think it's actually straight women who are oppressed by le evil femslash yurifag lesbincelsKek what? Do you seriously take yuri this seriously to the point where you think I for some reason hate all yuri and its fans? Because I don’t.
No. 2142275
>>2142257the
victim blaming is insane
No. 2142287
>>2142275I think it’s just because I find Anthy so shit, I’d have an easier time sympathizing with her if they had made her anything but a boring doormat that gets slapped around a bunch. I think they tried to give her some moe traits with her having a bunch of pets but it just came off as forced and unfunny (which is saying something because most of the ‘humor’ in Utena is already painfully unfunny).
Had they given Anthy a likable personality and had her do anything outside of being occasionally passive aggressive then it’s more likely I would have actually felt bad for her instead of just being like ‘Akio’s incest doll’
It’s the same reason I hate Rei in Eva.
No. 2142293
File: 1724013589787.webp (1.1 MB, 1200x1200, TLOU.WEBP)
For any fans of The Last Of Us, would people hate Abby as much if she and Ellie were men? I feel like men would view her as some “symbol of male strength” and defend her way more in that case, I have my issues with the story but Abby is way overhated for being a strong woman and the muscle jokes get so old when she doesn’t even look that bad
No. 2142302
>>2142292Oh I’m well aware why, but like a lot of Utena it’s all about themes while making the actual anime boring as fuck to watch.
This is why I prefer the movie, they try and give Utena and Anthy more of a star crossed lovers type relationship as opposed to ‘well the plot says we have to hang out so let’s hang out even though we have zero chemistry’
As for why I like Touga, I wouldn’t even say he’s a character I’m super attached to or anything, I just think he’s a funny character and occasionally entertaining because he’s such a piece of shit. At least he and Utena had some interactions that played off each other nicely
>>2142297Hate this bitch, and I’m a huge evafag.
No. 2142306
>>2142292The idea of a sexual assault
victim being portrayed as a non-entity rubs me wrong especially knowing ikuhara is a creep.
No. 2142319
>>2142306The entire point is that she has been abused by others, including her own brother, for being a "witch". She faces the consequences her brother should have faced because men outsource their suffering onto the females in their lives. It mirrors the way women operate under patriarchy irl, stomaching the humiliation and hatred under the guise of gender roles. Utena saved her though.
The entire story of the anime is basically a based Stacy saving her abused Becky "bride" from scrote rule and abuse.
No. 2142365
>>2142287>anything but a boring doormat that gets slapped around a bunchShe literally is that, you're just too hyperfocused on Touga's mid yaoi friendship with Saionji to see it. Anthy is shown to be sinister and vengeful on multiple occasions, it's just easy to miss due to le cinematography. That's the whole point of Anthy, that on some level she "chooses" to be what she is out of self loathing. Because of this, she also resents those who try to "save" her, especially if it looks like all that effort is for vanity.
Adolescence of Utena is about her no longer choosing to punish herself so she can save Utena.
No. 2142371
>>2142365>you're just too hyperfocused on Touga's mid yaoi friendship with SaionjiI literally said I shipped Touga with Utena
Either way Anthy sticking snails in Nanami’s face doesn’t make her an interesting character, it just makes more annoying unfunny gags in an anime that has too many of them as it is
coughChuchu
cough No. 2142686
>>2141503I was going to say what
>>2141516 said.
Basically, moids get mad when their designated self-insert has a sexualized body or is meant to be ogled. But for example in pornographic drawings, they don't care if their self-insert has a big dick because the character isn't sexualized at all, the focus is entirely on the female character being fucked by this self-insert.
When female characters have big boobs, it's usually presented in a way that's meant to give the male viewer a boner, rarely is it a natural depiction of a big breasted woman.
>>2141482From what I read, apparently he got mad that people couldn't tell what she was supposed to be, so he just went "fuck it". It's incredible how people kept insisting that a woman that wasn't traditionally feminine enough for them couldn't possibly be a woman, she had to be something else. Retards. Hange is cool as fuck, maybe that's why they headcanoned her as an enby because women can't be cool, right?
No. 2142710
File: 1724028069952.gif (2.78 MB, 640x640, mort-crying.gif)
>>2141265I remember when i started reading sukeban deka because i loved the topusatsu show, i was 100% sure the author was a woman. Then i checked the wikipedia artitle on the manga and not only was it created by a moid, but one that used to illustrate lolicon manga, too.
No. 2142726
>>2142712It's not just insecurity. Men don't like pretty male characters because they know that when they feel sexually attracted to women they default to having gross degrading thoughts about them and they project their vileness on women who like pretty bishies
(and they're not wrong but they should be able to take it lol) and are horrified by the idea of women daring to desire men in the same way men desire women. See: men getting weirdly defensive and going "but if the genders were reversed!1!!1" every time women openly thirst over the male celeb of the month
No. 2142728
>>2142708>This isnt true kek a man would definetly be uncomfortable with his self insert having a huge dickThese are the types of posts that make me wonder if any of you have ever interacted with a man before, eroge protagonists are mocked when they have small dicks and praised when they have big ones.
>>2142712>They're too jealous of the big dicked bishies to pretend to be themYou are aware one of the points of ugly bastards is that they do have big dicks, right? I hate the fact that I even have to talk about this, but some of you are so clueless. The one thing you are spot on is the fact that ugly bastards are a thing because they want to see women being degraded and dragged through the mud, though it has very little to do with self insertion.
No. 2142759
>>2142710>one that used to illustrate lolicon manga, too.I'm gonna kms I didn't know this
fuck
No. 2142765
>>2142728Not any of those anons, but what moids hate is when the character is attractive aside from having a big dick. That's why hentai protagonists are so bland-looking. There's zero effort put into his design.
If a character in a normal story (not porn) had a big bulge, and said bulge was very emphasized and the guy had a lot of lewd sexy poses and the camera focused a lot on his crotch, that'd probably make straight moids uncomfortable.
No. 2142773
File: 1724030597511.jpg (51.33 KB, 485x353, Capture3232.JPG)
There seems to be a double standard in modern fandoms where female villains are hated for being horrible people when they're villains, as if that isn't the point. This mentality is not extended to male villains, at least not as much.
No. 2142816
>>2142773and i'm tired of hearing "x female villain or morally gray female character is LITERALLY A RAPIST/ABUSER (of men), don't you TAKE
VICTIMS SERIOUSLY?" as some sort of gotcha from fandom ppl who want to justify hating said female character. actually no i don't because they're fictional males
No. 2142857
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>>2142773The problem is that we don't have enough evil women in fiction. We need more immoral female characters
No. 2142893
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>>2142844>They get really upset at any kind of drama/complexity in their yuri.Never read anything truer. It's why 80% of yuri is boring, non consequential high school crap. Even when there is a "plot", it gets watered down so much its impossible to get invested.
I search desperately everyday for yuri made by women for women, but it's mostly realistic slow burn office lady romance. I recommend Sherbert Above The Sea Of Fog for yuri with a good story and very obviously not made for men
No. 2142921
>>2142894And then there's the flipside where the audience (hint: males) forget all about said complexity to make her some nonironic mommy dummy waifu.
Makima gets both short ends of the stick.
No. 2142938
>>2139022True. I sometimes compare Yuri with the BL I read and it's so frustrating how they're the same cookie cutter "high school (or office) girls in love in the ~purest~ of way". Meanhile in BL you have an abundance of settings and tone, from historical to sci-fi, to fluffy and gritty.
The fact that GL tends to have school-aged characters whereas BL is not afraid to show adults (even in their 30s) is no doubt a manifestation of how girls are not expected "to grow up" lest they become boring and "expired" in the eyes of its scrote target audience.
Sometimes when I read BL with a much darker tone I genderbend the characters in my mind, since I hate the fluffy wuffy dynamic that prevails GL content (especially Japanese ones).
Manhwas are a tad bitter with GL as moeshit is not as prevalent there compared to manga, they tend to draw women like actual adults too instead of moeblobs. (On a Leash, Opium, Sadistic Beauty: GL Side).
No. 2142946
>>2142935The scene where she beats up her ex was hot and awakened something in me.
I remember reading it on nhentai (cursed site) and saw that some of the male commentors were like: "finally! A domme that's actually sadistic and not fucking a shota" or something like that.
No. 2142958
File: 1724038125474.jpg (129.62 KB, 1200x800, tuca-bertie.jpg)
Why cant we have one single female-lead adult comedy cartoon that doesnt shoehorn sad uwu backstories no one cares about? i tried watching tuca and bertie and inside job, but i cant stand the retarded sad backstories they give the female characters. With tuca and bertie it was specially vile since bertie gets raped. Why cant they just be allowed to be unhinged and funny like male characters are? the closest thing to this are the girls from drawn together and peggy from koh, but they are side characters. And yes, i also hate when they do this with male characters(bojack), but its not the norm in male-led comedy cartoons.
No. 2142960
File: 1724038139437.jpeg (119.69 KB, 1473x1079, IMG_6340.jpeg)
>>214289020+ year old media is far better than the current ADHD slop getting shoveled into bookshelves and movie theaters. You have multiple lifetimes worth of stories to discover and be inspired by yet all you want is more forgettable crap like chainsaw man.
No. 2142968
>>2142293Idgaf about her gender, I hate her because she killed the only other character I liked in the series besides Ellie
Killing Joel was the worst mistake they ever made because the only real appeal of TLOU was the relationship between Ellie and Joel so Abby can go rot ill hate Abby no matter what gender they make her
No. 2142983
Take
>>2123876 threadpic for example
>Gojo>Deku>Genshit impact moids like Diluc, Childe and ScaramoucheAll modernslop shallow, SHIT-tier, underwritten, bland male characters. "We care about male characters because they're just better written!!1" is bullshit. I respect anons who say "we only like them because we coom to them and we're straight" more than ones who lie and say this. Since all these male characters are new too I feel like it's mostly younger anons saying this since they're probably literally too young to have ever encountered well written female characters because all the media they've ever engaged with is just shitty husbandobait gacha games and modern shonen for teenage boys that somehow manages to have blander female characters than shonen in the 2000s did
No. 2143004
>>2142293Abby is easy to hate because she is a very strange addition to the story and setting– her backstory retcons events in the original game (how they handled her dad was fucking hilarious and amateur) and leads to her killing Joel (one half of the relationship that fans actually wanted more of, even if they didn't really like/relate to the character) very early on in the game in an ill-conceived scene when it comes to making her actions understandable/sympathetic because the beginning of the game wants her to be hatable until the 'twist' of playing her and learning about events from her perspective, since the game wants us to be behind Ellie's revenge rampage so it can eventually waggle its finger at the player about how violence/vengeance bad, and her weird plot with the cult group kinda goes nowhere too and retreads the Ellie and Joel dynamic from the first game just to give her sympathy points or idk a ham-fisted narrative parallel. Then there's other weird stuff about how she's treated– like, why, out of all of the characters, is she the one given a sex scene and why is it like that? Her physique also stands out because of the setting, but tbh TLOU2 handled the fungal zombie post-apoc setting really poorly on all fronts due to being too caught up in melodrama between its characters to remember that the world itself is the greater antagonist of the setting and should be the root motivation and disruption to most people's actions.
I really don't see swapping Abby to Abe fixing anyone's reaction to all of that, even for the particularly pathetic men who screech about her not being feminine enough kek. The men I've talked to about the game mostly found the whole thing to be very bitter and not what they were after in a sequel, and they wanted more of stuff like trying to find a cure and the fallout from the ending of the first game, but most of all they wanted more Ellie and Joel adventures. As for 'a symbol of male strength', there's already one of those with the buff guy who captures Ellie and Abby late in the game, and he's liked as a meme for describing Abby as having arms like his and because people don't like Abby, but otherwise is pretty forgettable (and is also pretty out of place looking for the game). Having a main villain/surprise antagonist like that would be pretty goofy kek
(I actually like Abby's character design btw, I just don't like what it's attached to, and she isn't the sole source of bad/bizarre writing choices either, they're riddled throughout the game, but she is one of the most prominent characters and examples so she is unfortunately a magnet for criticism)
No. 2143087
File: 1724049500865.webp (48.43 KB, 1000x1250, waifu.jpg)
I feel like the only people who want non-pure/high dimensional female characters are lesbians. Moids obv dont care, they only in for the coom, and straight women are so consumed by moralfaggotry they physically cannot comprehend somebody wanting a female character who is as non-pure as their precious moids. Normie women dont mind being a cardboard flat image and they rage when there are women who want to be allowed to have personalities.
No. 2143109
File: 1724051384572.jpg (314.02 KB, 1920x1080, 656665.jpg)
How would you draw non conventional looking female characters that arent tumblr tier? only example i can think of is princess jellyfish
No. 2143112
>>2142946>>2142923Yeah I love all the scenes where she beats Minho up and he ends up enjoying it but denying it hahahahaha I loved the scene where she makes him eat her out and then pegs him against his will, at least I think those two things happened in the same sceneSome nonnas would enjoy the revenge aspect and others would probably like the other love interest more.
>some of the male commentors were like: "finally! A domme that's actually sadistic and not fucking a shota" or something like that.kek moids are so retarded… there's plenty of femdom porn for moids out there that fits that description, Sadistic Beauty wasn't made for their greasy asses
No. 2143117
>>2143109Depends on what do you mean "tumblr tier". Peggy Hill is one example. Many women in Oooku are depicted just like moids usually are (from conventional to ugly). I recently came across this shitty hentai anime from the 80s called Sukeban Shokai Cutie Lemon, with female character designs that I loved because they're drawn kinda like male bad guys usually are (obvious NSFW warning), although this OVA is terribly animated, you can still appreciate the designs in the scenes that aren't.
I find all of these designs inspiring.
And, actually, I had been looking for an opportunity to ask you guys if you have any other recs where women are designed like this. I love cartoony, unconventional and goofy female designs.
No. 2143118
>>2142938Samefag. I meant a tad bit
better.
No. 2143123
File: 1724053216041.jpg (197.12 KB, 1213x1213, iwasarob0t.jpg)
>>2143109Dare I say I sometimes like the characters woke retards produce? This girl, iwasarob0t, she is turbo gendie but as i understood her characters are meant to be turbo GNC women. I also like when gendies draw "non op trans men" because i just see them as gnc women. A cope maybe, but a cope still.
No. 2143129
File: 1724053500185.jpg (Spoiler Image,139.05 KB, 1080x1350, evilwizardval.jpg)
Like this. Surely she would never dare to draw a female character like that without stating that she is akshually a trans man but i dont care kek. I coom anyway.
No. 2143152
File: 1724055522007.png (520.88 KB, 720x480, 0.png)
>>2141863Oh my god, I've been waiting for the perfect chance to rant about this.
At first, I thought of Peggy as just a funny American caricature. Classic dumb, ignorant character. The way she pronounced "los estudiantes son mis amigos" in the first episode cracked me up, and that's how I knew what kind of character she was going to be.
But also, the first time I saw her, I liked that her design was unique and refreshing (at least to me), because she's specifically designed to be average, "unfeminine" and not sexy, and I particularly liked the way her nose is drawn. As the characters started to be more well-defined, I kept liking her, but in a different way. I sympathized with her a lot because in the first couple seasons, she was often the
victim of Hank's asshole behavior, and we also learned about her different skills and hobbies (Boggle, softball, gardening, even handling snakes).
As the show went on, there's a noticeable change in the way she's written. Much more time was dedicated to show her making huge mistakes due to her stupidity and overconfidence. And who has to fix that mess? Her husband. It got frustrating after a while.
I'm so pissed about the retcons suffered by her character during this period. Early on, she was supposed to be good at gardening, then later on, in Season 9, there's an episode where it's established that she's terrible at it ("Yard, She Blows!" - she can't even keep the most resilient of plants alive). I hate that they changed things about her that were already established so they could just make her even more incompetent. Feels like some kind of torture porn to me. Side note, but in that episode she also befriended a fat nerdy woman that wanted her to watch Babylon 5, I liked that character. Due to the change in the way Peggy is written, from being kinda ignorant to being plain dumb and unfit to do almost anything, it also makes little sense how she got those Substitute Teacher of the Year awards before the show started. In the first couple seasons, Peggy is shown to have a few female friends other than Nancy and Minh, these ladies (who also had interesting designs that I liked) also used to appear in the background. These background characters are rarely, if ever, seen again in the later seasons, and Peggy's regular friend circle is reduced to two, not counting her niece. I understand that this is because it's hard and possibly distracting to the audience to focus on so many regular characters at once, but while they started to focus more on Nancy's and Minh's characters, they also made them so mean-spirited in some episodes that you can hardly believe they actually see Peggy as a friend, which just makes me feel worse for her (even Luanne starts being an insensitive dick to her. Speaking of Luanne, she also suffered bad changes, namely being made dumber and dumber until she became borderline retarded). At first, it was just Peggy's own insecurity hitting her when she was hanging out with them, but then they actually started to make her friends meaner.
In the last few seasons, it feels like the writers started to undo some of the changes to Peggy's character. For example, they made her somewhat competent at selling real estate, and she stopped needing Hank to come and rescue her from her own stupidity so much. She started to fix the damage she did by herself more regularly. In Season 9's "A Rover Runs Through It", the whole episode shows her being a badass (some people don't like this episode because it severely retcons Peggy's mother, but there's a lot of things I like about it so I can't completely dislike it). She also seemed to try many more different things, although I feel it got kinda formulaic at times.
I used to be really mad at the writers for suddenly making Peggy so stupid, self-centered and overconfident, because I wasn't prepared for it in the early seasons. Those traits used to be less exaggerated, so I was absolutely floored when she accidentally kidnapped a little Mexican girl after a series of incredibly stupid mistakes that she would've never made before. I truly think that this season, Season 6, was when the show jumped the shark for me. That episode was definitely my "shark jump". I hated her change so much that I started to ignore her dumbest moments in subsequent episodes, justifying it as "a shitty writing decision". Maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion, though.
I said I
used to be mad about this because a random post made me change my mind. It said that Peggy is great because she's not a typical "smart wife" character paired with a "dumb husband" and has to put up with his bullshit, but she's the dumb one while Hank is the smart one. This doesn't completely sit well with me because it still matches a stereotype of women being dumb and men being smart, but I see the point (especially since there are smart female characters in the show, such as Connie, who is one of my favorite KotH characters… and also because Hank is ignorant and has his dumb moments, but it got really bad during that period where Peggy did everything wrong and Hank had to undo the damage). The post also said that Peggy gets the rare privilege, as a female character, of being allowed to be a failure, do dumb things and also be funny. This is what made me change the way I see her. Now when she does something funny and dumb, or when she's clumsy, I think it's cute in the same way I think it's cute when some male characters I like do it. I find her both funny and adorable no matter what she does, and no longer ignore her dumbest moments (although I still can't tolerate the Season 7 episode "Goodbye Normal Jeans", which might be the only exception).
Random thought: In the episode where she breaks her bones (Season 4's "Peggy Hill: The Decline and Fall"), I always laugh during the scene where she's being treated like a baby next to an actual baby, then both she and the baby start crying kek, every time I feel so bad for her but it's also super funny. I actually love the way she cries in the show, but sometimes it's too much and I just feel bad. Her voice acting is superb, the way she says certain things is super funny. Kathy Najimy is amazing as Peggy.
No. 2143259
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>>2143152Now, as for the way moids in the fandom treat Peggy: this screenshot is an example I've personally encountered. The post was about the times Hank has been a piece of shit (too many to count), but some scrotes just had to interject their personal dislike of Peggy.
>It's because Peggy has a kind of a shitty personality. She has to be the smartest person in the room and right about everything. Those types of people aren't sufferable and you just love to see them fail.So they just want to see Peggy fail because they feel she deserves it for wanting to feel smart? Peggy isn't actually smart, so she can't correct anyone. She's not the same type of character as, say, that asshole archaeology professor from Season 2's "The Arrowhead", the dickhead that manipulated Peggy and took advantage of her desire to be perceived as smart and important, and humiliated her at the end of the episode in front of all his students. Now
that's the kind of smug, know-it-all piece of shit that you love to see fail, and the ending delivered. On the other hand, Peggy doesn't try to humiliate others when she acts like she's smart, her goal is just to not be left behind and look dumb. She definitely doesn't deserve to fail all the time just because of her annoying habit that isn't even done out of malice. All she does, usually, is add obvious information when people are talking, or act like what she's saying is a unique discovery she made, but her intention is never to make others look stupid or feel bad. People who think she does deserve it probably haven't even watched the show or only watched a couple episodes, or simply being male makes them unable to properly understand her character or look past her annoying habit (which wouldn't surprise me, since there are so many retards that claim to love this show but entirely miss the point or overlook obvious details).
>Didn’t Peggy kidnap a Mexican child?It was a complete accident. Dale has done way worse things ON PURPOSE, and yet scrotes love him.
>Use their savings for a genius scam?She fell for a scam, how does that make her a villain, exactly? It just makes her stupid (and she managed to get all their money back without Hank's help). The villain of that episode was the fucking scammer, retard.
>Out of a fit of jealously steal her son’s Turkey?This is the only one I'm willing to admit was Peggy acting like an asshole. This is the episode I said I can't stand. But even though Peggy did go crazy here, it didn't happen out of nowhere. Hank kept being a dumbass insensitive, oblivious moid which pushed Peggy over the edge. A moid wouldn't sympathize with a woman in this situation, so it doesn't surprise me that they use this episode as evidence that Peggy is "the worst" character.
And they also seem to believe that everything Peggy does is motivated by narcissism, too. As if she were unable to care about others (ample evidence of the contrary) or want to do the right thing.
>Yeah Hank sucks a lot but Peggy is no prize herselfOK??? Nobody said she never did anything wrong, the comment this fucker was replying to already accepted that Peggy is sometimes the villain. They always have to shit on Peggy no matter what.
Speaking of which, on the rare occasion I visit r/KingOfTheHill, sometimes I see posts/comments that say "Worst character that isn't Peggy?", "I think this guy might be even worse than Peggy", and the like. How the hell is Peggy considered the worst character, and not Cotton or Buck?? The visceral hatred these scrotes have towards Peggy Hill is insane. I have a feeling that they don't really hate her because she's "narcissistic" and "too realistic", but because she's female, and they have a subconscious, irrational hatred of women. They say Cotton is "too cartoony to be taken seriously", probably because none of what Cotton is, says and does affects them (a misogynistic, sexist, disgustingly perverted, racist, violent, actually
abusive towards his wife and son piece of crap, and their excuse is that Cotton is unrealistic… tell that to anyone that has met a misogynistic/racist old man). Meanwhile, Peggy has shown on numerous occasions that she loves and supports her family unconditionally, even though sometimes they have issues which is fucking normal in any family.
Sometimes Peggy does things I don't like, such as ignoring Hank's problems and not giving him some space when he was in a bad mood due to work in Season 8's "The Incredible Hank". But this might be the only time I found her actually annoying. Dale is established from the very first season as a petty, vengeful asshole towards his own friends, particularly in the episode "King of the Ant Hill". Dale and Cotton repeatedly act mean towards Hank, Peggy and others. Buck Strickland is another sex pest that also regularly treats Hank, and his other employees, like shit (I hated the writers' decision to "redeem" him in the Season 13 episode "What Happens At…") At some point, Dale started to hate on Peggy for no reason, which was off-putting and made me start to truly dislike him.
One time I was googling something KotH-related, one of the frequent searches Google showed me was "why is Peggy so mean to Bill". Like… How retarded do you have to be to not know this? Either that or they have only watched some episodes.
>Bill is a massive creep, and acts like such in front of her and even in front of Hank>In "The Texas Skilsaw Massacre", he confessed that he stole Peggy's underwear>stole Peggy's cast after the accident> makes disgusting, perverted comments about his own friend's wife in front of said friend>invades Peggy's personal space>tried to force himself as a substitute for the role of Peggy's husband several times>shown in several occasions to be a porn addict, and in one of those occasions, he even watches Peggy's foot fetish porn (that she was unaware was fetish porn) and acts like a mega creep, in front of HankAnd yet there's all these people wondering why Peggy is soooo mean to poor little Bill.
This has nothing to do with why Peggy hates him, but Bill is 100% a potential troon kek. He's in the army, middle-aged, fat, ugly, balding, mentally ill, self-hating, depressed, obsessed with his wife to the point that he LARPed as her wearing her clothes, traumatized by his father who used to put him in a dress to humiliate him (it's implied he developed a fetish for it in the way he acts after mentioning it), porn-addicted…
Boomhauer is no saint, either. He's supposed to be the coolest of the group, but he's nothing but a massive fuckboy (although this started to change in later seasons). Not only that, he makes porn movies in his bedroom, and sometimes makes sexist remarks, but he's never treated like he's in the wrong. The only time he's punished for any of this, as far as I remember, is in "Dang Ol' Love" where a woman he actually admired broke his heart in the same way he has broken the hearts of many of his lovers.
It shocked me a few moments ago when I found out that people actually hate Hank's mother Tilly almost as much as they hate Peggy because of that retarded unaired Season 13 episode "The Honeymooners" where it's revealed that she dumped her boyfriend (who was introduced in an early season and later re-appeared) for another guy, despite her relationship witht he first guy being good. I honestly don't even count that episode as canon because it's a Season 2 episode vs. a Season 13 one, the writing quality had already been decaying and it wasn't even written or directed by the same people. I know that doesn't stop the episode from existing and technically being canon, but I still don't think it's anything to be this testerical about. Tilly was a great mother to Hank, she did all she could while she suffered Cotton's abuse.
Can you nonas guess what the fandom thinks about Nancy Gribble?
>>2143175>Every character in the later seasons gets flanderizedYeah, I'm aware. I could talk about it all day, but this time I focused on Peggy.
>hank goes from being a slightly prudish guy to borderline asexualEh, I'd say Hank was always very repulsed by sex (except when it came to making love to his wife). In fact, it seems to have been one of the core aspects of his character from the beginning, according to the making-of. Luanne was made that way to highlight Hank's phobia of sexual matters, and the second episode is literally all about Hank getting mad at Peggy for teaching sex ed. In later episodes Hank and Peggy are still shown being intimate with each other, so I don't feel like this trait of his changed at all.
Hank
was flanderized, but in other ways. For example, they made him preachier and more idealized, and perhaps his anger issues were toned down as well. His obsession with propane also became more exaggerated. And his voice of course changed to be more soft-spoken.
>I guess the only character who doesn't suffer from this is dale, cause he was already really goofyThey definitely upped the loony factor with Dale, although it's not very noticeable. They also made Dale's craziness more justified by introducing a bunch of characters that are equally as serious about stupid shit as him (Season 6's "Soldier of Misfortune" is where either it started to happen, or I started to notice. Another episde from the same season that I felt jumped the shark). The change I didn't like in Dale was that he completely lost his accent and started to sound like an eccentric nerd (that's the best way I can describe it right now kek)
No. 2143326
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>>2139547>>2139606The only author who I always thought really understood how retarded most Japanese tropes are (and even Japanese society/mentality is) was the author of onepunchman, like if this scene happened in any other series, then mob and reigen characters would be drawn as pornofied female versions of themselves, with men fawning over them
No. 2143335
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>>2143326There was also this amazing scene in JoJo kek
No. 2143424
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>>2142958Have you never heard of Daria?
No. 2143483
>>2143004Abby would've worked better as a villain if we could've had the revenge moment. Abby essentially took away what everyone loved about the original (Ellie and Joel) and the game teases the catharsis of having revenge, but then yanks it away from you with no option to chose despite being able to chose for the ENTIRE GAME up until that point whether you want to use lethal methods
It was just a shitty game and hate for Abby has little to do with her gender
(But if you wanna talk gender politics in TLOU2, just look at the moid uprising over Ellie being a lesbian and therefore unable to procreate which is toooootally what all women exist for and only that)
No. 2143567
>>2143483Yeah, imo Abby should have just been a villain (and not playable, at least not for the main game, maybe for a dlc side story or something), and her threat to Joel and Ellie (and Joel's death if we keep it in) should have been paced out slower so fans could still get time with the characters they like, and idk you could have fun foreshadowing a villain who's hunting them down or something while Joel and Ellie are doing some other task and sorting their shit out while on the road. Have Abby try to not only get revenge for her father, but also restart his team's work on the cure, so she not only wants to kill Joel but also is an ongoing threat to Ellie because she needs to use her like in TLOU, giving Ellie an opportunity to grapple with Joel's choice to save her back then in a much more immediate way, allowing her to maybe even make that choice herself now that she's older and has more perspective/more to lose. Or something idk, just keep it simple and lined up with gameplay and the previous instalment.
Also, it's been a while so forgive me if I'm wrong, but iirc Ellie doesn't even share the player's knowledge of Abby when she chooses to spare her, so it makes even less sense, especially since the entire theme of the game kinda hinges on that moment.
>just look at the moid uprising over Ellie being a lesbian and therefore unable to procreateI know that those retards exist, and it makes me so glad that the men I've talked to about this game's main gripe about Ellie's sexuality was that they didn't really like her relationship with Dina (who they didn't hate but felt didn't deserve to have to deal with Ellie's shit) or the weird way the plot worked to give them a baby (outside of their safe and familiar community too, imo an unbelievably harrowing prospect for a pregnant woman/new mother– that doesn't get touched on at all iirc– but hey the game kinda forgot about the zombie apocalypse and rampant bandit activity in the setting so whatever, twee homesteading it is).
No. 2143649
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>>2143091Kek thanks fucking god at least one person here has common sense. It specially pisses me off to read the fujotards that claim to know about GL when they have only heard of the gateway JP slop. Of course it's schoolgirl shit just how your gateway BL is shounenshit shota garbage. But no, that must mean all GL is lolishit schoolgirls written by male authors because they don't have the capacity of googling and just consoom whatever garbage they run into in twatter. But as you say, even if they knew about the non-slop GL they would still be shitting on the female characters because they're just not interested in them. Fujos will say "yasss feminist qweeeen THIS one female character is interesting" but they literally only think of her whenever they need to win an Internet argument, otherwise they're always shitting out 500k words fanfics on shounenshit characters made for 8yo boys. I would like to see this dedication to the female characters they supposedly "like".
(Fujo derail after farmhand warning) No. 2143683
>>2143099I think it sounds kinda fun
>>2143098Yes. Popular with male fans mostly who reduce her to a mommy dom type or make jokes about her fucking dogs. Female fans shit themselves over Makima being le evil groomer who dared to hurt the male mc that they want to fuck, nevermind that Makima is a villain and she's supposed to be horrible. And tbf even some male fans shit on her for killing their waifus and their gross sexualization of her comes across as hate more than honest simping.
No. 2143688
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>>2143676Merricat and Constance from "We Have Always Lived In The Castle" by Shirley Jackson. I'm a sucker for weird women and well-written sister dynamics.
No. 2143731
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>>2143688Samefag, there's also Granny Weatherwax from Discworld!
No. 2143763
>>2143688Man, I really do need to get around to reading this. Might have to move it higher up the pile, I love well-written sibling dynamics, and I've enjoyed the other Shirley Jackson books I've read. What was your favourite aspect of the sisters?
>>2143731Discworld, my beloved! Granny Weatherwax is excellent taste too anon, what a cool lady
No. 2143775
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>>2143676i've been in a big fantasy kick recently, so jirel of joiry has my heart at the moment. while there are some period typical sexist writing tropes (the books are from the 30s), i love how badass she is, especially how physically impeding she is supposed to be. morgaine from the morgaine cycle is another female pulp character i really like, as well as tomoe from tomoe gozen (which maybe hasn't aged well). red sonya from robert e. howards the shadow of the culture is another character i enjoyed, especially her temper, but i'm not a fan of the character red sonja that was inspired by her, even in comics written by gail simone. in tales of earthsea, i really do love tenar, but i understand a lot of female readers frustrations with how the women are written in that series.
as for male characters, i've really been having fun reading robert e. howards conan stories, just because i like to imagine him as a naked whore. not a lot of substance to him, but imaginative enough stories. i love d from vampire hunter d, and i've always amused by all the female villains who want to rape him, but the author is very creepy towards his female characters. once again, the leads use to me is just imagining how beautiful he looks. elric of melniboné is another male pulp character i like, because of how much of a bitch he is, and i like that he is supposed to he very beautiful and have a feminine face(plus how rapey arrioch is towards him amuses me, i love when he is harassed by him in front of other men).
No. 2143834
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>>2143676This isn't
technically an answer to the question but I always thought Tolkien was based for doing picrel. Apparently he wrote this into the story because the technicality in Shakespeare's Macbeth annoyed him kek (tl;dr summary for the uncultured anons, in Macbeth the main character receives a prophecy that "no man of woman born" can kill him, but he's eventually killed by a guy who was born by cesarean.) Tolkien rightfully thought this was stupid and wondered why Macbeth couldn't have just been killed by a woman.
No. 2143968
>>2143662Winx Club:
>Identical anorexic colorswaps designed by a moid to sell toysKuragehime:
>Characters a woman intentionally designed to be "ugly" because the whole goddamn story is about the fashion industry and learning to accept people as they are.I don't dislike Winx Club but you are fucking retarded. Kuragehime isn't even meant for children, it's a Josei manga.
No. 2143974
>>2143971Kek, best nonna in the thread.
This thread was such a waste.
No. 2144066
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>>2143109It's been posted to death on LC but I have infinite love for the female TF characters concept art
No. 2144790
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>thread is a bunch of polilez faggots whining about fujos
Jesus fucking christ you people are so annoying. I don’t know why it’s impossible for you to accept that most women are straight and aren’t gonna be interested in female characters by default and this is coming from someone who shows a great amount of love towards her fav female characters. It’s not my fault 95% of female characters are dogshit vapid whores who are oversexualized and have no personality otherwise
>inb4 MISOGYNY DURR
Yet you fags will be sexist toward actual women who just want sexy bishies but defend the precious drawings like there’s no tomorrow(fujo sperging after a farmhand warning)
No. 2144822
>>2143775Ooh I'll have to give Jirel of Joiry a go! I'd heard of it before but I didn't realise it was from the 30s, will be interesting to read about that kind of badass female character written back then. Tomoe Gozen also sounds neat, adding that to my list. I like Red Sonya too, but yeah the comic book character never really did it for me.
>morgaine cycleI have a massive soft-spot for CJ Cherryh's books, especially her sci-fi, my dad got me into the Morgaine books when I was a kid, loved them and the titular character. Tristen from Fortress in the Eye of Time and Tully from the Chanur novels are two male characters of hers I quite liked as well (former a lot because he's a trope I find really interesting [blank slate, he's made via magic at the start of the story] and the latter because he tries his best kek), and I've enjoyed all her female protagonists that I've read (Pyanfar is possibly my favourite– smart, kinda grouchy but fair middle-aged space trader who gets into shit way over her head and also happens to be a cat-alien lol).
Kek, love your selection of male characters/reasoning for them. The Conan stories are good fun in a pulpy machismo kind of way, and Elric of Melniboné is indeed a pretty bitch lmao. I've only seen the animated adaptations of Vampire Hunter D, might have to give the original novels a go.
No. 2145488
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>>2144822i'm happy to hear from another nonna who has similar taste in novels! i'm glad you agree about elric specifically, i wish he would get a good adaptation (instead of the witcher) and more people could appreciate how fun he is. and i really do recommend jirel of joiry, she is considered one of the first female leads in any sword and sorcery stories and deserves more love/recognition. CL moore also really has a beautiful and imaginative writing style, she is very creative down to the little details.
i need to read more of CJ cherryhs work, i've only read the morgaine cycle. pyanfar sounds awesome, and the other characters sound very interesting as well. i'll have to scour my library apps to see if i can find any of them!
when it comes to the vampire hunter d novels i like to listen to the dramatic readings, a lot of them are available on spotify. they're a little cringey, but it suits how borderline retarded and fun the series is. very good for long car rides.
have you read gideon the ninth? i heard the main character is really cool, but i just haven't been able to get into it.