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a lot of shonen mangaka just radiate "I cannot interact with women" energy. Even married ones like Oda. Some of them get credit for compelling female characters because they rip off Western tropes (i.e. the rawr kick ass fierce independent you go girl like Makima from CSM or Nobara from Jujutsu). It's especially amusing with that biologically male tranny wannabe who wrote KnY. His female characters are even more sex objects than Oda's.
All the big battle shonen written by actual biological women? Night and day difference. Only a real woman could write something like FMA or Dorohedoro. Even the worthless shit series like Beastars have female characters who may be terrible but you just know that no moid could come up with something like this (Haru from Beastars, impossible for a male to write this).
>>272226>It's especially amusing with that biologically male tranny wannabe who wrote KnY
Isn't kny's author a woman? If we're talking about kimetsu no yaiba kek
At least, that's what I hear parroted everywhere but I could be wrong.
Anyway, you're absolutely right, shonen mangaka always make male/male relationships the high point of their series and male rivalry and friendship is so much more important than anything else. It's no wonder there's so many fujos into shonen specifically and that the most popular ships arose from series made for boys kek
Most evidence points to the KNY author being a female or TiF, I do agree with your points but you can't just discard that fact because it doesn't fit into your narrative.
Dunno if you've read it, but how do you feel about D.Gray-Man? Female author there as well.
WSJ moids really can't wrap their heads around what a female character would be like when the magic trick is to write them like you would write your male characters (the developed ones that is). That being said, I'm still amazed at Oda writing Arlong Park and Enies Lobby because he really made me feel for the FCs there. Can't say the same about series like Naruto where their main passion is their inconsiderate love interests.>>272230>>272248
Wani is a woman but her characters manage to be more tropey than the average shonen. I do appreciate Nezuko being more tolerable than the two main and deeply unfunny comic reliefs.
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Yeah I haven’t played the game myself but have heard so much criticism toward this female protagonist in a new game. She is edgy, sarcastic and shows tough love. There are so many male characters like this but the fact that an unattractive female character acts this way made men pretty much ruin this game’s reputation.
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I have some thoughts about sakura. I never watched shippuden, only the original series and I don't know exactly how her character developed other than marrying sasuke and having some badass moments so I'm just gonna focus on her younger version. My hot take that a lot of the hate that she gets is because… frankly she acts like an average 12 yr old girl. Girls sometimes can't stand other girls who they deem as annoying and moids always look down on girl they aren't attracted to, and sakura isn't coomerish at all. Yes, I know everyone says kishimoto can't write girls but sakura to me always acted in a very realistic way and reminded me of the other girls around me. In some way I also related to her, like the obsession with academic grades, the temper tantrums and being insecure of her appearance. Also as a kid watching naruto, I thought her relationship with ino made a lot of sense, like going from friends to bickering rivals, the jealousy etc a lot of my girl friends acted like that. And sasuke was supposed to be the hottest guy in her age range, of course she would have a crush on him, it's only natural (I don't think they had the chemistry to get married though but that's another topic). As for being weaker than sasuke and naruto, as a kid I never saw it as an issue because she was smarter than them and maybe because I was projecting on her, but I also couldn't see myself as someone who is physically stronger. It seems to me like naruto fans focusing on her strength and badass moments is just a weird cope instead of appreciating her for more relatable traits. A female character's worth shouldn't be related to being able to compete to other moids in the strength department
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Mikasa. I don't get why the fanbase obsess over her or think she is well-written (and even with the mess of that ending). She has developed even less than the newcomer characte. Her presence feels like a cardboard who happens to fight good. Though I can't deny I'm digging her timeskip design.>>272337
Kishomoto wasn't even sure what to do with her.
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what I hate most about the (lack of) development of the female characters in Naruto compared to other Shōnen series is cause I feel they actually had potential
They had unique designs, awesome non-sexualized fighting styles and seemingly great interactions with the main cast
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Sakura is a prime example of what people hate in a girl. She's not the prettiest or the nicest, she's not the strongest or the fastest, but she is the smartest. A snotty know it all girl trying to fit in a group that has a boy with demon inside of him and a sociopathic edgelord. How is girl like Sakura going to interest boys reading/watching the series? She didn't and in the time skip she doesn't become sexy so what is there to tolerate in their minds? Only girls who liked Sasuke tolerated Sakura because they were self inserting with her. Now the dogshit author had no idea what he was doing, but he accidentally created the best thing ever. I love Sakura, she is everything men hate about female characters and the amount of seething she got out of weeb men was glorious. You search "why i hate sakura" on youtube and you will find thousands of videos full of rage dedicated to her. She is by far one of the most hated female characters in anime and it was all because she was ass kissing the wrong boy. This is why Hinata got all the endearment, she was the opposite of Sakura. She's a princess to some special bloodline, she is obsessed with naruto, she has big boobs (which is something every weeb moid has to bring up as to why she's better than sakura), she thinks he's cool, and she risked her life for him when they spoke maybe twice in the past. Hinata is what you would expect out of the female mc, but instead you got somebody who can't stand him because he's a loser. It destroys the fantasy for self inserting and becomes too real when she is constantly rejecting him. She's a great character that doesn't hold up too much value in the series, but had a big impact outside of it imo.
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>>271969>a character you think is shit. Bonus points if she's beloved by the fandom.
Not beloved but Orihime is a shit character for a very simple reason. Never, ever, say a character has godly OP powers then reduce them to a whiny damsel in distress. It's going to make people hate them. No matter how "realistic" it's going to make people ask why the fuck the character isn't doing anything other than screaming and crying. Kubo deserved the backlash he got for writing that garbage. There's a lot of really awful female characters in Bleach but she always stands out because of how important she was supposed to be.
The biggest joke is that the entirety of her plot points were dropped while you have ichihimes grasping at straws to demonstrate that Orihime was important and her ship woth Ichigo was deep and carefully constructed.>>272356
Gabi is a better example of female character disproportionally hated kek. Moids still hate her guts (but slightly less thanks to the shit ending).
very good points>>272392
also worth mentioning
i just wish she had more development because obviously there was potential. she still agrees to raise sasukes kid in the end, worst timeline. should have married rock lee
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in retrospect do you nonnies think effy stonem was a good female character? or did characters like her and shows like skins just allow for more coomer media to exist and be successful such as euphoria?
I've found some like minded women but they're definitely not a majority. Funny thing is most of them do actually tend to be straight they just really like certain female characters like me… I guess it depends on fandom though.
It's disappointing but there's not much you can do about it, whenever I bring this up people get so defensive about liking there male characters too
Lol I've always found him annoying ironically I think if he was a female character he would be more interesting to me.
I feel like this will get some hackles up but I also find snake to be a boring character, the female characters around him were more interesting to me like the boss
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AYRT, as would I, but considering scrotes are designing these games, they only know two extremes: covered in makeup, twitter/tiktok/instagram thot look, or revoltingly ugly. And that won't change as long as scrotes are in charge of this. Picrel.
I agree with this, I remember even when I was a kid I got frustrated when I saw media where all the female characters looked like supermodels meanwhile the male characters got to have lots of variety and creativity in their appearances. I used to draw genderbend versions of male cartoon characters to make them into women but tried to keep all their ugly/unconventional traits, just to see something different for once kek.>>273489
Don't know what that's from, but this doesn't look revoltingly ugly to me at all outside of the weird uncanny valley bug eyes (which is an issue a lot of video game characters have for some reason). She just looks like a regular woman not wearing makeup.
I haven't seen this beyond waifuism though to be honest. Like I haven't seen it with live action women in series and movies. I feel like specifically men fawn after certain anime characters because the character is meant to pander to them
I'm not sure I agree with being attracted to a character makes them more interesting cause there are people I might find attractive but don't feel anything for their character. I definitely think it can be a factor but I know straight women obsessed with female characters but idk. I guess it depends though because I do think there is a specific type of fandom woman that favor male characters because their entire focus is shipping.
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I'm close to finishing Breaking Bad and found myself angry with how I felt I was watching it. Because I hate Walt, but he remained the character (of the ones still alive) I wanted to see have a closed arc the most. I wanted to see exactly how bad he could break, what he looked like at his most evil. By comparison I found myself constantly exasperated by how unreadable Skyler was; one moment she was smart enough to sniff out that Walt was a drug dealer, the next she's too stupid to know what money laundering is, then the next she's completely OK with being in on Walt's work, then the next she's pulling a knife on him. It was as if Skyler didn't exist as a character but just existed as a tool for the writing room to pivot Walt wherever he needed to go in the story. Then, I watched a couple of writing and actor interviews where Vince explicitly says that the intelligence Anna Gunn brought to Skyler made it difficult to keep straight to Skyler's character, and in choosing to prioritize the bigger story a lot of the actions she takes come across as inorganic.
That made things make way more sense and also just made me more angry. Skyler really did/does have amazing potential, I loved the idea of her values being identical to Walt's ("protecting/providing the family") but her virtues pivoting her directly against him. Unfortunately that wasn't conducive to a good story plot, so they had to dumb her down and purposely make her OOC and do/say shit that she never, ever would. BB is great but when it's bad it's infuriatingly bad.
Poor Anna Gunn too. Didn't she receive death threats for her performance as Skyler? As if she could help that the writing room couldn't handle her.
Yeah she did people fucking hated her it was ridiculous
I love Anna Gunn she is a fucking amazing actress
I never bother looking in the comment section of any scene Skylar is in because I know how it'll go. My name is Skyler White.. YO? Was so iconic, doesn't get enough credit.
Though I feel like the writers slightly redeemed themselves with BCS because Kim is incredibly smart and isn't dumbed down for plot convenience.
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I don't get why game devs use the tumblr/twitter woman side shave or undercut to say a female character is supposed to be strong, it looks like fucking shit and a Portland pretentious pseudo activist haircut shouldn’t be indicative that a woman in strong. These types of people irl are the biggest cowards you’ll meet.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. I've spontaneously chopped off my hair in the past wanting a drastic change and it never occurred to me that it could be interpreted as wanting to be more masculine because that was never my goal. I just thought of it as (symbolically) letting old parts of me go and starting fresh like the other anon said. I know other women irl who have done the same. It's also kind of daring I guess because long hair is the tradition as short hair is seen as more edgy/daring because it goes against traditional feminine expectations. The only character I can think of right now who did that was Elliot from Scrubs (a show that I kind of hate for other reasons, but that's irrelevant here) in one episode she chopped off a lot of her hair and tore apart her old bedroom posters and stuff. After that she became more straightforward and confident in herself, but she didn't really become masculine, or at least I didn't see it that way. She seemed more sexy and adult after that as opposed to girlish and timid.
If we're talking about "kweer" media then I guess that's a different conversation. I don't watch much TV anymore but it seems like the woke crowd wants women to be very feminine and fuckable (like "wanting to wear high heels and be submissive is what makes you a woman" logic) and it seems like it's the more "dyke-ish" female characters with buzzcuts who are portrayed in a negative light (unless they're non-binary or something) usually. Just my two cents.
I agree it's very over done but I wouldn't call it an inherently masculine thing either.
That being said I would actually love to see more masculine women in media
>>274223>short hair is inherently masculine is narrow minded tbh
ayrt the only person who thinks that itt is >>273567
my comment was a bit of a joke but i do want to see more masculine female characters, actual masculine characters.. not regular women with pixie cuts.
on another note, I never understood the hate Abby got. She reminds me of Ellie a bit. Both women who allowed revenge to control their lives and in that path they lost everything, Ellie was left alone by Dina and the baby. Abby lost her bf and the rest of her friends, all that was sacrificed for nothing. Honestly watching Abbys storyline made me dislike Ellie a bit because she was dragging it I mean you have an entire farm, a wife & a son to take care of why throw it all away to kill one woman? But I guess that is what Neil intended, how Joels death turned Ellie into Abby. A woman solely driven by her desire for revenge. The hate Abby gets is so retarded, like it was brutal but her anger is justified despite her method of dealing with it is brutal. I know her body makes no sense & is impossible for a woman but who gives a shit honestly I feel like the actual hate isnt the lack of realism but that her body isnt fapbait
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I feel that Gina Carano should unironically be the physical standard for female action stars, like I hate both male and female steroid freaks just as much as 90 pound Waif-Fu practitioners
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Hard disagree. It's definitely not a very realistic trope but I like seeing very feminine women kicking ass. It's a power fantasy thing but so are the freakish roided men that are so common to see.
It depends on the context, though. I love Meg Foster's Evil-Lyn's look in the Masters of the Universe movie, but everyone has ridiculous campy outfits on so she works in that setting. Gina Carano's look >>275525
in The Mandalorian is perfect for her setting.
When I played Witcher 3 (never finished), Geralt was so fucking grating and boring. It put me off the game; that and the cutscene dialogue. I don't want to see Geralt, really. He's also very rude even if you try not to be. And yeah his voice sounds bad as well. Really bad combinations. >>273482
Snake rarely talking is a bonus.>>273486
Yes, the female characters really are interesting. I don't know much about Solid Snake and whether or not he's interesting but I personally thought Snake was really interesting, but of course his story revolves around The Boss, a woman, who I wish had her own game.
Way back in 2014 a lot of people (myself included) loved how physically capable she was. Back then tumblr was complaining about the lack of badass characters and mikasa comes along and basically ticks off what tumblr wants. As the story progressed I realised she doesn’t really develop at all, I felt like she never really reacted to the world around her and how it progressed or to new information revealed it was weird. The only important thing was eren eren eren.
I lowkey think Hanji was probably not meant to be a woman because she’s the only well written, compelling, and interesting female character and male mangakas struggle with writing female characters. Not to say the rest of the female cast is shit in snk but Hanji feels well written.
Because femininity is considered weakness and stupid, so it's nice to see it being portrayed in a positive way. >>275510
I think feminine fighters can be either good or bad, depending on the genre that the characters are part of and the target demographic of the series. Magical girls and toys are a power fantasy for children. Female characters wearing ridiculous sexy costumes in a zombie apocalypse setting or something just exist to make make men horny, though.
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All this pearl clutching about how the upcoming movie will "ruin" Peach by turning her into a girlboss just proved to me that scrotes never respected her. Scrotes crying "NOOO SHE CAN'T FIGHT BACK, SHE HAS TO BE HELPLESS, SHE'S EMASCULATING MARIO" can get fucked. Those that claim how they always preferred the sweet and demure Peach from the games are lying because they never respected her back then either. They would insult Peach and make sexist quips about how she owes Mario sex instead of a kiss or cake. Even the idea of Peach having agency has them go into a seething fit, just read their reactions to Peach turning down Mario and Bowser in Odyssey's ending. Just goes to show that scrotes only see her as a waifu to coom to (pic related got a NSFW edit as soon as it appeared. I thought they hated her redesign). Speaking of, all this malding about Peach's movie design, especially her thinner lips is pathetic. They're minds have rotted by r34 fanart. I'm just happy that Peach is going to have a bigger role in the movie and not be the damsel in distress the whole time.
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What do nonas think of The Boys and its women? I personally am very surprised at the variety of archetypes it presents; plus very few fall into generic woman tropes or kind of borderline offensive "girl(boss) power xD" shit>>275510
I've seen a lot of women (or girls, I guess) on tiktok posit media as having too many ""tomboys"" and not enough girly girls lmao >>275675>femininity is considered weakness and stupid
I'm of the opinion that it is. Women aren't naturally "feminine", I tend to think of "femininity" in terms of stereotypes like pink and high heels and etc.
>>275675>Because femininity is considered weakness and stupid, so it's nice to see it being portrayed in a positive way.
NTA but I don't think using sex appeal as your ultimate weapon is that positive a portrayal of femininity, it's like telling people that women are only good for sex and to please men. Having a woman with a feminine appearance kick ass without using her "femininity" is a better portrayal imo, it's like saying that women aren't just good for that one thing and that we're much more than just the dresses we (are forced/conditioned to) wear, acknowledging that we're good at many things that have nothing to do with that.
But ideally the high heels and stripperiffic outfits (what many consider peak femininity) would not be the default "badass female character" design. They still promote sexist ideas about women (like saying we should all dress like that, or that you're less of a woman or weak for not doing so) which, curiously, also happen to have been created for the pleasure of men.
there's a difference though, like Chris Hemsworth beating 12 men is obviously unrealistic but it still feels more plausible then having someone having someone like Jay Baruchel in the same role, what I'm saying is they should cast actresses that in fact look like they can fight. Like Linda Hamilton in the Terminator movies for example, instead of tiny actresses borderline anorexic, and expect me to believe they can punch out three guys who look like The Rock surrounding her.
ETA: And instead of telling me she knock him unconscious with her tiny fist, show me some moves that realistically a woman can use to her advantage in combat, or give her a freakin weapon she's expert at. there are ways to do this. Atomic Blonde is a good example
We can see she's physically weaker then the thugs and can't afford to be hit, but she's a better trained fighter and she doesn't let them gain any footing, she hits their vital spots and uses her surroundings to her advantage
I mean the boys is pretty hyper aware of tropes and literally makes fun of the girl power we can do it ladies trope and presents its female characters as much more than a one off gal power moment.
Starlight does get beat up quite a lot though, I get that she was literally only hired by Vought because of her looks and not her actual power (which is very weak compared to the other main supes) but still, she's in a superhero show and she's not strong like at all. In a world of electricity she should be able to do more.
Stormfront was a great villain, straight up nazi pretty rare for women to get such a cutthroat peak of human evilness in modern history character. And she was the brains behind her horrific nazi ideals not some other mega nazi, just her.
I liked that.>>275707
Doesn't help their (influenced by brainrot only) argument that Peach has been a strong character throughout the mario franchise, a tonne of women have quickly been pointing out that she has her own game. They're also mad that Luigi is getting in trouble instead of her but if memory serves correctly Luigi has been in trouble before. Even mario has been the damsel in distress taking into account games like Luigis mansion.
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Yeah she's not like, OP, but she is still strong
in mind and spirit; also if I'm recalling correctly (I am binging the fuck out of this show) she handles herself well against all sorts of mooks and – thus far – has only gotten "beaten up" by like. Homelander, who's practically god in series. She's also pretty young as far as the other heroes go; she's 23, and hasn't really used her powers for anything but taking out regular people + showboating. I think it makes sense.
I did read spoilers though and she apparently gets a pretty intense power up later on?
A lot of women enjoy femininity. It's perfectly fine to not enjoy being feminine but it's not right to hate on people who enjoy the power fantasy of being able to be hyperfeminine but also kick ass.
I think hyperfeminine badasses do work better in more obviously fantastic settings. It's easier to justify a less muscular woman kicking the shit out of a dude who'd clearly be able to mop the floor with her if she has magic or a weapon of some kind.>>275735
I think this view just proves we should have a wide variety of women just like there's already a wide variety of male characters. We should have very masc women, very fem women, and everything in between. Then no one's left out and there's nothing to complain about.
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I must talk about my beloved Bayonetta… I've only played the first game so far (no spoilers pls) but I totally fell in love with her!
Yes, she is sexualized, but she's also funny, badass, cocky, and super strong. I couldn't help but be charmed by her and even though there were some moments in the game that made me roll my eyes, I overall felt like she was a much more fleshed out than a lot of female characters tend to be.
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I love her so much, she's one of my favorite characters ever. I don't even care that she's sexualized because she's far from just that, she's a consistant character, she's funny, has an interesting backstory that's related to several other cool characters, we learn a lot about her family, etc. I don't need to post spoilers to explain why I like her but I'll stop there anyway. The other games are really fun as well so I recommend you just keep playing and avoid spoilers. There's going to be a spin-off or prequel in a few weeks as well, I've really looking forward to it. I need to beat Persona 5 Royal first though.
I won't say anymore about her getting beat up because it's later but yes she can definitely hold her own against regulars, take bullets and all that.
So, powering up, not really unfortunately, I'll be vague but still put it into spoilers. In a scene where the current antagonist, homelander, and a few others are fighting in a climax type scene. She starts to power up and it looks epic like she's really gonna do something and then uh no she doesn't, just basically what she always does. Was disappointing.
I'd rather watch a show with no female characters than one that has its few female characters constantly be victims
of violence or be background noise without contributing anything, but that's just me.
100%, any sort of fictional tv/movie thing like this is going to take certain liberties where it chooses to be unrealistic and its veeerry telling that having relevant female characters that aren't just for sex and to be victims
of violence is frequently deemed as specifically being too unrealistic. Like, standard action shit can have the most unrealistic scene of some dude easily taking out multiple other men but a woman fighting successfully is "crossing the line". The truth is that the lack of realism necessary for women to be relevant and not victims
of misogyny isn't anything that wild its just the men involved in these shows don't want to imagine scenarios like that
What this >>275866
Maybe some women will see it as a power fantasy if a very sexualized woman (which they have been conditioned to want to be like) does some cool shit while looking like the feminine ideal of beauty, but here's an actual female power fantasy: being able to shoot a scrote in the dick for catcalling you and let him slowly bleed to death. It's something that every woman has fantasized about because we feel, and most often are, utterly powerless when we're objectified by men, and we wish we had the power to stop it.
Moids have had their own power fantasies that involve treating women like crap and killing innocents for their own sick satisfaction for millennia. A woman with huge tits in a leather catsuit and stilettos shooting some generic bad guys, made by men for the satisfaction of males in the audience before women, is a pretty lame excuse for a "female power fantasy" and we deserve better than that. But writers are pussies and/or hate women too much to give us that.
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I hate when either of these things happens but the 2nd one annoys me so much.
Are there any female characters that you think were treated similarly to how some male characters are in fandoms/stories? Vriska from Homestuck kind of gives me that feeling. She was pretty popular while also being hated and despite her being 'problematic' she was still given a good amount of importance in the story to the point where she felt like a creators pet.
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i'm just going to rant about makima; i really hate how the fandom treats her. one side is running rampant with coomers who are obsessed with her as a 'mommy dommy' and the others gloss over her character with 'yass! girlboss' then go on to write essays about the boys. which is fair, do what you want, but it still pisses me off.
she's creepy and severe in canon. she isn't nurturing at all, she isn't "seductive" – every character that "loves" her was manipulated through her devil powers. denji fell for her flirtations (which are very disturbing on a second read, after you learn it's not just a high-octane shonen gorefest) because he's underage + lived a shit, loveless life. everyone else either fears her (power, angel devil, etc.) or outright mistrusts her (kishibe).
and her ultimate goal is to "save the world" via a forced cleansing using pochita's crazy deus ex machina ability…
i feel like it's rare to see a female villain that's just evil, straight up. evil without also being a sex object. i wish people could appreciate her and see past the handful of scenes where she preys on denji tbh
Vriska was a tranny fantasy for gross coomers. It's always a bad sign when female characters with potential garner a tranny fandom because they all glorify mental illness.
In fact I'm wondering if there's not a heavy self-insert element which hints at authors being eggs. Like Makima from CSM.
>>278878>without being a sex object
Except she is deliberately written to be flirtatious sexy dommy mommy up until the reveal that she was playing it up to manipulate Denji because she wanted to fuck Pochita.>>278893
What does this even mean? I hate Vriska too but she isn't a tranny, anon. If anything the creepy tranny fetish shit was pushed onto Jade (do not read Homestuck Epilogues or 2 for your own sanity).
>>278939>Except she is deliberately written to be flirtatious sexy dommy mommy
that's what i'm saying, she isn't sexy or flirtatious outside of like a single scene that is more weird and predatory than sexual. in every other scene she is domineering (not in the sexy way!) and cold
i always wonder if people would see makima as some grand femme fatale archetype if she were male. like everything is exactly the same, she's just a dude; probably not, right?>>278893>>278939
transed out though
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i thought shiv was a very well written flawed character with realistic flaws and a good study if a woman raised in a misogynistic circle.
but the way the fandom treats her is appalling, either they fall for the "girlboss" shit (when shic is a decinsytucrion of the girlboss if anything) or they act like she's an evil witch for being mean to their mediocre male favorite.
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i love shiv but the way she betrayed kendall in the finale was pretty fucked. why side with your shitty husband (who fucked you over numerous times and outright admitted to only being with you for your $$$) over your brother.
because her brother also fucked her over and over every chance he got
? she already got a taste of how things would be during most of season 4 where as soon as he became interim ceo he immediately sidelined her. and kendall was very clearly turning into logan before her eyes
ultimately she was faced with only bad choices.
the motive behind her choices are a complicated and here's certainly a part of jealousy/selfishness but that's what makes her a complex character.
but as muchh as i hae tom i also really, really fucking hate kendall so i might be hiased hr
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pretty much all of the female characters in brba deserved way more character depth and consistency. shame the whole show went on with skyler being pushed down, rather than take the opportunity to let anna shine. as another nona said, i'm also glad kim was so well written and given attention, though god damn theres so many feetfag shots its so obvious ugh.
anyways, i post here to be a lydiafag, there's so much unsaid for how she ended up/stays in the business or about her homelife, and besides a cute scene where she's like "doesn't prison get people killed?", we don't see much of her in BCS. i just really love how neurotic she is, but also how she isn't the usual "girlboss" kind of villain, she's pathetic and can't stand to look at the murders she orders, is stressed out 24/7, and kind of socially retarded but is also smart and tactical where she can plan train heists, and (attempts) to manipulate things so she stays alive. i just wish she wasn't as one note and we got fuller slices of life for her like we did for gus and the wine scene, mike with his family, jimmy's past etc. people say plain greed is the reason she's there but you could say that for walt, gus and saul etcetc and it'd still be true, but there's also something else underneath/adjacent to that (pride, family, succeeding in the system, revenge). lydia has a child but we really don't know much except lydia is busy and has a nanny, and "dont kill me i have a child". i just wish we saw more lydia rodarte quayle.