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File: 1674848607847.gif (410.64 KB, 750x750, 1638911237277.gif)

No. 271969

Let's discuss female characters in media. How they're generally treated, why isn't a particular character more popular amongst women, what are some series that do justice to women, etc.

Random questions to get us started:
>What makes you think a female character is poorly written? What makes you think she's well-written?
>Share a character you think is well-written; tell us why, too.
>Inverse of that: a character you think is shit. Bonus points if she's beloved by the fandom.
>Thoughts on these tropes: femme fatale, damsel in distress, manic pixie dream girl, and "girlbosses".

No. 271983

While I don't have a specific example I do wonder if a female character that's considered poorly written would be fine for a male character. Sometimes when I dislike a female character for having Mary Sue tendencies I have to ask myself if I would apply the same criticism to a male character

No. 272003

I think the Trails in the Sky duology is really good about a female protagonist. Estelle is a strong lead with admirable growth and a strong network of support from the diverse group of people around her. They're honestly games that I'd recommend to preteen girls.
Can't say much about the direction the series took, though. I still like it, but the above positives got lost as the series went on.
IIRC the Kiseki series now has eight separate instances of the predatory lesbian character archetype.

No. 272024

>I do wonder if a female character that's considered poorly written would be fine for a male character.
This happens all the time with mysterious and edgy characters. The male ones are seen as cool badasses and gain hundreds of fangirls while their female counterparts are called "nlogs", marysues, unrealistic, cliche, bitchy, etc. or get changed into being sweeter.

No. 272226

File: 1675008905642.jpg (26.37 KB, 381x409, 5c3a8d7e3c0fcc699af230a94d2c49…)

a lot of shonen mangaka just radiate "I cannot interact with women" energy. Even married ones like Oda. Some of them get credit for compelling female characters because they rip off Western tropes (i.e. the rawr kick ass fierce independent you go girl like Makima from CSM or Nobara from Jujutsu). It's especially amusing with that biologically male tranny wannabe who wrote KnY. His female characters are even more sex objects than Oda's.
All the big battle shonen written by actual biological women? Night and day difference. Only a real woman could write something like FMA or Dorohedoro. Even the worthless shit series like Beastars have female characters who may be terrible but you just know that no moid could come up with something like this (Haru from Beastars, impossible for a male to write this).

No. 272230

>It's especially amusing with that biologically male tranny wannabe who wrote KnY
Isn't kny's author a woman? If we're talking about kimetsu no yaiba kek
At least, that's what I hear parroted everywhere but I could be wrong.

Anyway, you're absolutely right, shonen mangaka always make male/male relationships the high point of their series and male rivalry and friendship is so much more important than anything else. It's no wonder there's so many fujos into shonen specifically and that the most popular ships arose from series made for boys kek

No. 272248

Most evidence points to the KNY author being a female or TiF, I do agree with your points but you can't just discard that fact because it doesn't fit into your narrative.
Dunno if you've read it, but how do you feel about D.Gray-Man? Female author there as well.

No. 272254

>the rawr kick ass fierce independent you go girl like Makima from CSM or Nobara from Jujutsu
kek why are you reducing their character to that shitty girlboss-type archetype? i hate people like you the most

No. 272255

WSJ moids really can't wrap their heads around what a female character would be like when the magic trick is to write them like you would write your male characters (the developed ones that is). That being said, I'm still amazed at Oda writing Arlong Park and Enies Lobby because he really made me feel for the FCs there. Can't say the same about series like Naruto where their main passion is their inconsiderate love interests.
Wani is a woman but her characters manage to be more tropey than the average shonen. I do appreciate Nezuko being more tolerable than the two main and deeply unfunny comic reliefs.

No. 272259

The mangaka of KnY IS a woman you moron

No. 272260

This is such a weird post but my first complaint is that Dorohedoro is not a battle shounen, wtf. Yes there are a bunch of female mangaka that write for shounen magazines, but the men and women making these stories don’t write interesting girls because they’re for teenage boys to read. Literally every employee working on a shounen magazine above the mangaka is a scrote.

No. 272264

File: 1675026302105.jpeg (424.27 KB, 1280x720, E86DCBBD-F96B-407B-8567-309D7E…)

Yeah I haven’t played the game myself but have heard so much criticism toward this female protagonist in a new game. She is edgy, sarcastic and shows tough love. There are so many male characters like this but the fact that an unattractive female character acts this way made men pretty much ruin this game’s reputation.

No. 272265

Damn nonna, this reminds me of the backlash that Abby received in TLOU2. Props to her for giving moids severe lasting anal tears.

No. 272269

It's because the dialogue in the game is genuine shit. She's not the only one that's terrible, there's Cuff too, she's just the player character that speaks the most. The game even lets you turn off the wandering dialogue between her and Cuff because they probably knew how bad it was.

No. 272281

Christ this is hard to watch. She's not even ugly, but the facial animations fully go into uncanny valley territory so she ends up looking scary and goofy.

No. 272306

Nah, Abby was a genuinely shit character. It didn't help she looked like a troon when the game was first being previewed.

No. 272334

The designs beside the medieval designs are horrendous. The main character is so ugly and pissy about everything(why would you make your mc so fucking annoying? ) zero dawn and lara atleast have some character they're not annoying to play

No. 272337

File: 1675069788053.jpg (337.29 KB, 1028x1026, sakuraharuno.jpg)

I have some thoughts about sakura. I never watched shippuden, only the original series and I don't know exactly how her character developed other than marrying sasuke and having some badass moments so I'm just gonna focus on her younger version. My hot take that a lot of the hate that she gets is because… frankly she acts like an average 12 yr old girl. Girls sometimes can't stand other girls who they deem as annoying and moids always look down on girl they aren't attracted to, and sakura isn't coomerish at all. Yes, I know everyone says kishimoto can't write girls but sakura to me always acted in a very realistic way and reminded me of the other girls around me. In some way I also related to her, like the obsession with academic grades, the temper tantrums and being insecure of her appearance. Also as a kid watching naruto, I thought her relationship with ino made a lot of sense, like going from friends to bickering rivals, the jealousy etc a lot of my girl friends acted like that. And sasuke was supposed to be the hottest guy in her age range, of course she would have a crush on him, it's only natural (I don't think they had the chemistry to get married though but that's another topic). As for being weaker than sasuke and naruto, as a kid I never saw it as an issue because she was smarter than them and maybe because I was projecting on her, but I also couldn't see myself as someone who is physically stronger. It seems to me like naruto fans focusing on her strength and badass moments is just a weird cope instead of appreciating her for more relatable traits. A female character's worth shouldn't be related to being able to compete to other moids in the strength department

No. 272339

Actually after writing this I realized how much of an anti-waifu sakura is. How many moids actually waifu her? Not many, because she looks and acts like an average girl, not an idealized waifu. I bet if she was much hotter she'd get a lot less hate or at least have moids backing her up cause they can coom to her. But they can't really coom to sakura when they have hinata or tsunade

No. 272340

No. 272356

File: 1675089049934.jpeg (26.1 KB, 739x415, images (1) (6).jpeg)

Mikasa. I don't get why the fanbase obsess over her or think she is well-written (and even with the mess of that ending). She has developed even less than the newcomer characte. Her presence feels like a cardboard who happens to fight good. Though I can't deny I'm digging her timeskip design.
Kishomoto wasn't even sure what to do with her.

No. 272357

the only thing she does is go ''EREH''. thats why i always liked annie more at least she had a motive to do things(i loved the stand alone episode they did on her)

No. 272359

I feel the same, + ppl call her weak but like ?? She is in a team with a Uchiha and a kid with a fox demon in his body so how can she be strong as them when her family is like normal ppl not ninjas not demon owners no op clan?

No. 272367

The shounen fanbase will respect a female character only when she's physically strong and/or hot. Mikasa barely has any personality or interests outside of eren but she's one of the strongest and capable character so people like her more by default

No. 272378

File: 1675101408545.png (280.17 KB, 1024x659, 1592192743771.png)

what I hate most about the (lack of) development of the female characters in Naruto compared to other Shōnen series is cause I feel they actually had potential
They had unique designs, awesome non-sexualized fighting styles and seemingly great interactions with the main cast

No. 272382

File: 1675104035167.jpg (314.13 KB, 1079x1090, same.jpg)

Sakura is a prime example of what people hate in a girl. She's not the prettiest or the nicest, she's not the strongest or the fastest, but she is the smartest. A snotty know it all girl trying to fit in a group that has a boy with demon inside of him and a sociopathic edgelord. How is girl like Sakura going to interest boys reading/watching the series? She didn't and in the time skip she doesn't become sexy so what is there to tolerate in their minds? Only girls who liked Sasuke tolerated Sakura because they were self inserting with her. Now the dogshit author had no idea what he was doing, but he accidentally created the best thing ever. I love Sakura, she is everything men hate about female characters and the amount of seething she got out of weeb men was glorious. You search "why i hate sakura" on youtube and you will find thousands of videos full of rage dedicated to her. She is by far one of the most hated female characters in anime and it was all because she was ass kissing the wrong boy. This is why Hinata got all the endearment, she was the opposite of Sakura. She's a princess to some special bloodline, she is obsessed with naruto, she has big boobs (which is something every weeb moid has to bring up as to why she's better than sakura), she thinks he's cool, and she risked her life for him when they spoke maybe twice in the past. Hinata is what you would expect out of the female mc, but instead you got somebody who can't stand him because he's a loser. It destroys the fantasy for self inserting and becomes too real when she is constantly rejecting him. She's a great character that doesn't hold up too much value in the series, but had a big impact outside of it imo.

No. 272383

No female character in Naruto is good. Stop fooling yourselves.

No. 272388

I agree that she's not bad in original series but i just really didnt like how depended she was of Sasuke in shippuden. I hate that trope where a female character whole world is just her love interest and Sasuke did some horrible things to her. The same thing happened with Hinata, after a while her whole character just became about liking Naruto. Kishimoto just really doesn't know how to write female characters, they all end up being huge simps who just live for the love interest. Kinda like Mikasa from aot

No. 272392

I hate her because her entire existence revolved around a scrote. He literally tried to kill her and she was still in love with him. Such rolemodel, muh woman to admire. I won't like a shitty female character just because scrotes hate her. I hate her for different reasons than scrotes do anyway

No. 272399

File: 1675113719300.png (954.7 KB, 841x834, orihime.png)

>a character you think is shit. Bonus points if she's beloved by the fandom.
Not beloved but Orihime is a shit character for a very simple reason. Never, ever, say a character has godly OP powers then reduce them to a whiny damsel in distress. It's going to make people hate them. No matter how "realistic" it's going to make people ask why the fuck the character isn't doing anything other than screaming and crying. Kubo deserved the backlash he got for writing that garbage. There's a lot of really awful female characters in Bleach but she always stands out because of how important she was supposed to be.

No. 272401

The biggest joke is that the entirety of her plot points were dropped while you have ichihimes grasping at straws to demonstrate that Orihime was important and her ship woth Ichigo was deep and carefully constructed.
Gabi is a better example of female character disproportionally hated kek. Moids still hate her guts (but slightly less thanks to the shit ending).

No. 272421

you seem mentally ill

No. 272424

very good points
also worth mentioning

i just wish she had more development because obviously there was potential. she still agrees to raise sasukes kid in the end, worst timeline. should have married rock lee

No. 272431

its worth nothing that both Sakura and Sasuke weren't Kishimoto's idea. She's a suggestion from the editor that he didn't like (and it shows) while Sasuke's a suggestion that Kishimoto liked (and it shows).

No. 272432

File: 1675135593069.jpg (49.67 KB, 500x500, effysaysnotovaping.jpg)

in retrospect do you nonnies think effy stonem was a good female character? or did characters like her and shows like skins just allow for more coomer media to exist and be successful such as euphoria?

No. 272439

maybe not good in the role model/moral sense but i thought she was cool, though i just wanted to self-insert as her tbh. i mean the writing was flawed at times but for power fantasy purposes i liked her. i feel like i can't give an objective answer to this kek.

No. 272485

There are no role models in Naruto because they all have stockholm syndrome for the Uchihas. Name somebody Sasuke once liked that he hasn't tried to kill or left them in danger. Sakura is not the only person riding his dick when literally everybody got the same treatment from him and they still wag their tails like loyal dogs. How are you even going to pretend Sakura's obsession with Sasuke is uniquely different than Naruto's? This entire series is about trying to get Sasuke back into a group that he does not want to be a part of. The main person crying, begging, and pissing themselves for him is Naruto. Without Sasuke, Naruto is your average 8yo boy with assburgers. He has a fox inside of him and he spergs out because of it. Sakura at least is a highly regarded doctor while most of the other characters barely have a full name. The bar is so low, but Sakura has an identity outside of Sasuke.

No. 272767

i never really understood what was supposed to attract cook, freddie and jj to effy so much except that she was beautiful (and "mysterious" but mostly beautiful). i liked her as a teenager though, also hate coomphoria and don't plan to ever watch it outside of seeing it all over social media

No. 273032

File: 1675386541877.png (537.89 KB, 737x706, 56d64a50c0b21e25511a702b39c13f…)


No. 273452

It's so tiring when people pretend like every female character is absolutely atrociously written so that's why they only focus on men when the men they focus on are literally just some guy with mid tier writing. Women can be horribly written but I've seen some interesting female characters ignored for generic male leads

I remember an anon mentioning this in another thread but I wish more people would build up lore as headcanons and discuss women giving them elaborate back stories the way they do for male characters. Not that there aren't people doing this but just not to the same degree

No. 273467

100% agree. Honestly I find the enormous focus placed on male characters to be kind of draining at times, even with my female friends it feels like men are always the ones being hyperanalyzed and obsessed over meanwhile even the well-written and interesting female characters are completely looked over. I've always sperged over female characters the way that they sperg over male characters but I've never met anyone else like me in that regard - I know there must be other women out there who are genuinely way more interested in women over men but it must be pretty uncommon which I find a bit sad. Though realistically it's probably just because most women are attracted to men and ultimately a lot of fandom behaviour is related to attraction to the characters.

No. 273472

I've found some like minded women but they're definitely not a majority. Funny thing is most of them do actually tend to be straight they just really like certain female characters like me… I guess it depends on fandom though.

It's disappointing but there's not much you can do about it, whenever I bring this up people get so defensive about liking there male characters too

No. 273475

No. 273482

Geralt. Geralt Geralt Geralt. He's so FUCKING BORING. And his voice is just a ripoff of Solid Snake's. Hell, SNAKE is more interesting, and he barely talks at all!

No. 273484

Lol I've always found him annoying ironically I think if he was a female character he would be more interesting to me.

I feel like this will get some hackles up but I also find snake to be a boring character, the female characters around him were more interesting to me like the boss

No. 273485

This, I fucking HAAAAATE that moids seem to think it's empowering for female characters look absolutely ugly now.

No. 273486

Oh, The Boss was cool as fuck. She's one of the most noble characters in that entire series. Same with Sniper Wolf. And Idk if I sound scrotey but I absolutely love Fortune's design. The railgun, the swimsuit, the hair and eye colors… Fortune herself is a cool character, too! I love the idea of a character being able to seemingly repel bullets and nullify weapons around her because she's so lucky. (Also her dad was supposed to have fucked Vamp, KEK)

No. 273487

Can I make a counter point. I think it's actually okay for ugly female characters to exist. I don't know much about Abby as a character so I can't comment on that. I just feel like we have male characters that are technically ugly and beloved and I don't see the same thing for women often. Like it doesn't need to be empowering I just would actually like to see variety and believability within female characters

No. 273489

File: 1675564733471.jpg (48.99 KB, 780x438, intro-1652378095.jpg)

AYRT, as would I, but considering scrotes are designing these games, they only know two extremes: covered in makeup, twitter/tiktok/instagram thot look, or revoltingly ugly. And that won't change as long as scrotes are in charge of this. Picrel.

No. 273490

I actually feel so bad for Debra Wilson because I think she's a very attractive woman they did her dirty with that mocap

No. 273491

I don't entirely agree with revoltingly ugly but point taken Im just desperate for some variety

No. 273501

I agree with this, I remember even when I was a kid I got frustrated when I saw media where all the female characters looked like supermodels meanwhile the male characters got to have lots of variety and creativity in their appearances. I used to draw genderbend versions of male cartoon characters to make them into women but tried to keep all their ugly/unconventional traits, just to see something different for once kek.
Don't know what that's from, but this doesn't look revoltingly ugly to me at all outside of the weird uncanny valley bug eyes (which is an issue a lot of video game characters have for some reason). She just looks like a regular woman not wearing makeup.

No. 273505

I don't think they are intentionally making characters uglier, it's just that mocap itself is insufficient. Usually the actors they base the faces on look fine in real life, but look awful in-game.

No. 273547

ultimately, being attracted to a character makes them more interesting by default. the weird thing is when they claim to be lesbian/bi/queer/whatever and they still only focus on men, although someone could use the gays obsessing over women as a counterpoint. it's rather unfortunate but i think men in general do focus more on the female characters even if it's in a coomer way. at least male weebs, CGDCT series have massive scrote fandoms

No. 273555

I haven't seen this beyond waifuism though to be honest. Like I haven't seen it with live action women in series and movies. I feel like specifically men fawn after certain anime characters because the character is meant to pander to them

I'm not sure I agree with being attracted to a character makes them more interesting cause there are people I might find attractive but don't feel anything for their character. I definitely think it can be a factor but I know straight women obsessed with female characters but idk. I guess it depends though because I do think there is a specific type of fandom woman that favor male characters because their entire focus is shipping.

No. 273559

I remember they were obsessed with emma watson a decade ago, so it can happen but I feel like moids generally don't care that much about celebrities, unless they're gay obviously

No. 273567

Not a type of character, but radical hair cuts as a symbol of female character development and maturity boil my piss. It's lazy and to me it falls in the category of masculinity good, femininity bad.

No. 273791

File: 1675701757106.png (60.23 KB, 200x200, skyler.png)

I'm close to finishing Breaking Bad and found myself angry with how I felt I was watching it. Because I hate Walt, but he remained the character (of the ones still alive) I wanted to see have a closed arc the most. I wanted to see exactly how bad he could break, what he looked like at his most evil. By comparison I found myself constantly exasperated by how unreadable Skyler was; one moment she was smart enough to sniff out that Walt was a drug dealer, the next she's too stupid to know what money laundering is, then the next she's completely OK with being in on Walt's work, then the next she's pulling a knife on him. It was as if Skyler didn't exist as a character but just existed as a tool for the writing room to pivot Walt wherever he needed to go in the story. Then, I watched a couple of writing and actor interviews where Vince explicitly says that the intelligence Anna Gunn brought to Skyler made it difficult to keep straight to Skyler's character, and in choosing to prioritize the bigger story a lot of the actions she takes come across as inorganic.
That made things make way more sense and also just made me more angry. Skyler really did/does have amazing potential, I loved the idea of her values being identical to Walt's ("protecting/providing the family") but her virtues pivoting her directly against him. Unfortunately that wasn't conducive to a good story plot, so they had to dumb her down and purposely make her OOC and do/say shit that she never, ever would. BB is great but when it's bad it's infuriatingly bad.
Poor Anna Gunn too. Didn't she receive death threats for her performance as Skyler? As if she could help that the writing room couldn't handle her.

No. 273877

Yeah she did people fucking hated her it was ridiculous

I love Anna Gunn she is a fucking amazing actress

No. 273946

I never bother looking in the comment section of any scene Skylar is in because I know how it'll go. My name is Skyler White.. YO? Was so iconic, doesn't get enough credit.
Though I feel like the writers slightly redeemed themselves with BCS because Kim is incredibly smart and isn't dumbed down for plot convenience.

No. 273972

I always thought that trope was more about new beginnings and radical over just being more masculine which is debatable. Guess it depends on the context/piece of media

No. 273976

File: 1675757045260.jpg (110.62 KB, 681x1066, SpaceBeth.jpg)

I don't get why game devs use the tumblr/twitter woman side shave or undercut to say a female character is supposed to be strong, it looks like fucking shit and a Portland pretentious pseudo activist haircut shouldn’t be indicative that a woman in strong. These types of people irl are the biggest cowards you’ll meet.

No. 273978

Oh yeah agree I hate this haircut lol

No. 273981

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. I've spontaneously chopped off my hair in the past wanting a drastic change and it never occurred to me that it could be interpreted as wanting to be more masculine because that was never my goal. I just thought of it as (symbolically) letting old parts of me go and starting fresh like the other anon said. I know other women irl who have done the same. It's also kind of daring I guess because long hair is the tradition as short hair is seen as more edgy/daring because it goes against traditional feminine expectations. The only character I can think of right now who did that was Elliot from Scrubs (a show that I kind of hate for other reasons, but that's irrelevant here) in one episode she chopped off a lot of her hair and tore apart her old bedroom posters and stuff. After that she became more straightforward and confident in herself, but she didn't really become masculine, or at least I didn't see it that way. She seemed more sexy and adult after that as opposed to girlish and timid.

If we're talking about "kweer" media then I guess that's a different conversation. I don't watch much TV anymore but it seems like the woke crowd wants women to be very feminine and fuckable (like "wanting to wear high heels and be submissive is what makes you a woman" logic) and it seems like it's the more "dyke-ish" female characters with buzzcuts who are portrayed in a negative light (unless they're non-binary or something) usually. Just my two cents.

No. 273984

Nta but at this point it feels more cliche and predictable than daring. there's a whole long list on tvtropes of characters doing it, although i don't think it's a masculine thing. just too overdone.

No. 273986

I agree it's cliche at this point, I just don't think it's about becoming more masculine and saying femininity is bad or whatever

No. 273988

I agree it's very over done but I wouldn't call it an inherently masculine thing either.

That being said I would actually love to see more masculine women in media

No. 274161

>falls in the category of masculinity good, femininity bad.

No. 274223

thinking short hair is inherently masculine is narrow minded tbh

No. 274344

>short hair is inherently masculine is narrow minded tbh
ayrt the only person who thinks that itt is >>273567
my comment was a bit of a joke but i do want to see more masculine female characters, actual masculine characters.. not regular women with pixie cuts.
on another note, I never understood the hate Abby got. She reminds me of Ellie a bit. Both women who allowed revenge to control their lives and in that path they lost everything, Ellie was left alone by Dina and the baby. Abby lost her bf and the rest of her friends, all that was sacrificed for nothing. Honestly watching Abbys storyline made me dislike Ellie a bit because she was dragging it I mean you have an entire farm, a wife & a son to take care of why throw it all away to kill one woman? But I guess that is what Neil intended, how Joels death turned Ellie into Abby. A woman solely driven by her desire for revenge. The hate Abby gets is so retarded, like it was brutal but her anger is justified despite her method of dealing with it is brutal. I know her body makes no sense & is impossible for a woman but who gives a shit honestly I feel like the actual hate isnt the lack of realism but that her body isnt fapbait

No. 274345

samefag also abby is another case of female characters not being allowed to be shit people. There are many understandable reasons why people hate her but you wouldn’t give a shit about any of it if she was a scrote so meh.

No. 275500

anyone else hate the idea of "weaponized femininity". why do so many women want female heroes to kick ass in high heels with full faces of makeup. what about making them gritty and edgy and filthy

No. 275510

Do women want this or men?? Most women know 'kicking ass' in heel highs is stupid and nearly impossible and no one has time to put make up on when shit is happening. More women need to be portrayed as just being women. Make up is not a daily routine and most women dont even wear high heels. weaponized femininity and femme fatale shit are the most sexist tropes that women can only use their looks to gain the higher ground and nothing else.

No. 275525

File: 1676283303137.jpg (383.26 KB, 2560x1707, 2021.07.21-09.47-boundingintoc…)

I feel that Gina Carano should unironically be the physical standard for female action stars, like I hate both male and female steroid freaks just as much as 90 pound Waif-Fu practitioners

No. 275531

For real, she was perfect for the role

No. 275657

File: 1676325461748.jpg (618.32 KB, 1162x1773, evillyn.jpg)

Hard disagree. It's definitely not a very realistic trope but I like seeing very feminine women kicking ass. It's a power fantasy thing but so are the freakish roided men that are so common to see.
It depends on the context, though. I love Meg Foster's Evil-Lyn's look in the Masters of the Universe movie, but everyone has ridiculous campy outfits on so she works in that setting. Gina Carano's look >>275525 in The Mandalorian is perfect for her setting.

No. 275661

When I played Witcher 3 (never finished), Geralt was so fucking grating and boring. It put me off the game; that and the cutscene dialogue. I don't want to see Geralt, really. He's also very rude even if you try not to be. And yeah his voice sounds bad as well. Really bad combinations.
Snake rarely talking is a bonus.
Yes, the female characters really are interesting. I don't know much about Solid Snake and whether or not he's interesting but I personally thought Snake was really interesting, but of course his story revolves around The Boss, a woman, who I wish had her own game.

No. 275671

Way back in 2014 a lot of people (myself included) loved how physically capable she was. Back then tumblr was complaining about the lack of badass characters and mikasa comes along and basically ticks off what tumblr wants. As the story progressed I realised she doesn’t really develop at all, I felt like she never really reacted to the world around her and how it progressed or to new information revealed it was weird. The only important thing was eren eren eren.
I lowkey think Hanji was probably not meant to be a woman because she’s the only well written, compelling, and interesting female character and male mangakas struggle with writing female characters. Not to say the rest of the female cast is shit in snk but Hanji feels well written.

No. 275675

Because femininity is considered weakness and stupid, so it's nice to see it being portrayed in a positive way.
I think feminine fighters can be either good or bad, depending on the genre that the characters are part of and the target demographic of the series. Magical girls and toys are a power fantasy for children. Female characters wearing ridiculous sexy costumes in a zombie apocalypse setting or something just exist to make make men horny, though.

No. 275707

File: 1676351356722.jpg (348.77 KB, 1080x1350, FixaLSOUcAA2lVU.jpg)

All this pearl clutching about how the upcoming movie will "ruin" Peach by turning her into a girlboss just proved to me that scrotes never respected her. Scrotes crying "NOOO SHE CAN'T FIGHT BACK, SHE HAS TO BE HELPLESS, SHE'S EMASCULATING MARIO" can get fucked. Those that claim how they always preferred the sweet and demure Peach from the games are lying because they never respected her back then either. They would insult Peach and make sexist quips about how she owes Mario sex instead of a kiss or cake. Even the idea of Peach having agency has them go into a seething fit, just read their reactions to Peach turning down Mario and Bowser in Odyssey's ending. Just goes to show that scrotes only see her as a waifu to coom to (pic related got a NSFW edit as soon as it appeared. I thought they hated her redesign). Speaking of, all this malding about Peach's movie design, especially her thinner lips is pathetic. They're minds have rotted by r34 fanart. I'm just happy that Peach is going to have a bigger role in the movie and not be the damsel in distress the whole time.

No. 275710

>pic related got a NSFW edit as soon as it appeared
>all this malding about Peach's movie design, especially her thinner lips
why are scrotes like this

No. 275715

File: 1676356268089.png (1.48 MB, 1920x816, The Boys S01E03.mp4_snapshot_0…)

What do nonas think of The Boys and its women? I personally am very surprised at the variety of archetypes it presents; plus very few fall into generic woman tropes or kind of borderline offensive "girl(boss) power xD" shit

I've seen a lot of women (or girls, I guess) on tiktok posit media as having too many ""tomboys"" and not enough girly girls lmao

>femininity is considered weakness and stupid
I'm of the opinion that it is. Women aren't naturally "feminine", I tend to think of "femininity" in terms of stereotypes like pink and high heels and etc.

No. 275716

Like this post…I think she's lovely too, but I'm not fond of automatically going "feminine = woman". You gotta break that corset.

No. 275719

>Because femininity is considered weakness and stupid, so it's nice to see it being portrayed in a positive way.
NTA but I don't think using sex appeal as your ultimate weapon is that positive a portrayal of femininity, it's like telling people that women are only good for sex and to please men. Having a woman with a feminine appearance kick ass without using her "femininity" is a better portrayal imo, it's like saying that women aren't just good for that one thing and that we're much more than just the dresses we (are forced/conditioned to) wear, acknowledging that we're good at many things that have nothing to do with that.
But ideally the high heels and stripperiffic outfits (what many consider peak femininity) would not be the default "badass female character" design. They still promote sexist ideas about women (like saying we should all dress like that, or that you're less of a woman or weak for not doing so) which, curiously, also happen to have been created for the pleasure of men.

No. 275727

there's a difference though, like Chris Hemsworth beating 12 men is obviously unrealistic but it still feels more plausible then having someone having someone like Jay Baruchel in the same role, what I'm saying is they should cast actresses that in fact look like they can fight. Like Linda Hamilton in the Terminator movies for example, instead of tiny actresses borderline anorexic, and expect me to believe they can punch out three guys who look like The Rock surrounding her.
ETA: And instead of telling me she knock him unconscious with her tiny fist, show me some moves that realistically a woman can use to her advantage in combat, or give her a freakin weapon she's expert at. there are ways to do this. Atomic Blonde is a good example
We can see she's physically weaker then the thugs and can't afford to be hit, but she's a better trained fighter and she doesn't let them gain any footing, she hits their vital spots and uses her surroundings to her advantage

No. 275735

>They still promote sexist ideas about women (like saying we should all dress like that, or that you're less of a woman or weak for not doing so) which, curiously, also happen to have been created for the pleasure of men.
This is exactly it. It's weird how people complain there's no feminine badasses when the "tomboys" they think are overpopulating media and taking all their feminine characters away are often very feminine themselves, but they consider anything less than hyperfeminine not feminine. Ignoring the fact majority of these femme fatale characters are given revealing outfits and only end up being coom material for males as they are designed by males, it's odd how many women think the male ideal for women is empowering and cannot identify with any other type of woman that doesn't fit that archetype.

No. 275759

I mean the boys is pretty hyper aware of tropes and literally makes fun of the girl power we can do it ladies trope and presents its female characters as much more than a one off gal power moment.
Starlight does get beat up quite a lot though, I get that she was literally only hired by Vought because of her looks and not her actual power (which is very weak compared to the other main supes) but still, she's in a superhero show and she's not strong like at all. In a world of electricity she should be able to do more.

Stormfront was a great villain, straight up nazi pretty rare for women to get such a cutthroat peak of human evilness in modern history character. And she was the brains behind her horrific nazi ideals not some other mega nazi, just her. I liked that.

Doesn't help their (influenced by brainrot only) argument that Peach has been a strong character throughout the mario franchise, a tonne of women have quickly been pointing out that she has her own game. They're also mad that Luigi is getting in trouble instead of her but if memory serves correctly Luigi has been in trouble before. Even mario has been the damsel in distress taking into account games like Luigis mansion.

No. 275764

tbh honest her Tom Hardy lips are an iconic part of her design, but I guess they changed that to make the lipsynch/animation less ugly or easier? I just saw how Toad looks like and he's ugly and uncanny valley for some reason so I truly don't know.

No. 275824

File: 1676399839213.png (1.58 MB, 1920x816, The Boys S01E07.mp4_snapshot_3…)

Yeah she's not like, OP, but she is still strong in mind and spirit; also if I'm recalling correctly (I am binging the fuck out of this show) she handles herself well against all sorts of mooks and – thus far – has only gotten "beaten up" by like. Homelander, who's practically god in series. She's also pretty young as far as the other heroes go; she's 23, and hasn't really used her powers for anything but taking out regular people + showboating. I think it makes sense.

I did read spoilers though and she apparently gets a pretty intense power up later on?

No. 275827

When I saw her, I gasped. I was so happy to see an realistic woman kicking ass with an obtainable bod type too. It made me want to lift more. I really enjoyed Cara Dune's character as well.

No. 275829

She is NOT ugly

No. 275857

A lot of women enjoy femininity. It's perfectly fine to not enjoy being feminine but it's not right to hate on people who enjoy the power fantasy of being able to be hyperfeminine but also kick ass.
I think hyperfeminine badasses do work better in more obviously fantastic settings. It's easier to justify a less muscular woman kicking the shit out of a dude who'd clearly be able to mop the floor with her if she has magic or a weapon of some kind.
I think this view just proves we should have a wide variety of women just like there's already a wide variety of male characters. We should have very masc women, very fem women, and everything in between. Then no one's left out and there's nothing to complain about.

No. 275866

It's not a power fantasy though, they're not designed like that with women in mind, it's a sexual fantasy for men.

No. 275877

File: 1676416167127.jpg (138.47 KB, 736x1196, 3b47ff73f6662db1df9afda44a5c62…)

I must talk about my beloved Bayonetta… I've only played the first game so far (no spoilers pls) but I totally fell in love with her!

Yes, she is sexualized, but she's also funny, badass, cocky, and super strong. I couldn't help but be charmed by her and even though there were some moments in the game that made me roll my eyes, I overall felt like she was a much more fleshed out than a lot of female characters tend to be.

No. 275879

If it's possible to sexualize a female character and not have it be degrading, Bayonetta did it

No. 275882

A lot of men described Bayonetta as "sexually intimidating". I'd love for more really feminine characters to be portrayed like her.

No. 275883

File: 1676418148759.png (156.41 KB, 900x894, 7660817_p0.png)

I love her so much, she's one of my favorite characters ever. I don't even care that she's sexualized because she's far from just that, she's a consistant character, she's funny, has an interesting backstory that's related to several other cool characters, we learn a lot about her family, etc. I don't need to post spoilers to explain why I like her but I'll stop there anyway. The other games are really fun as well so I recommend you just keep playing and avoid spoilers. There's going to be a spin-off or prequel in a few weeks as well, I've really looking forward to it. I need to beat Persona 5 Royal first though.

No. 275927

I won't say anymore about her getting beat up because it's later but yes she can definitely hold her own against regulars, take bullets and all that.
So, powering up, not really unfortunately, I'll be vague but still put it into spoilers. In a scene where the current antagonist, homelander, and a few others are fighting in a climax type scene. She starts to power up and it looks epic like she's really gonna do something and then uh no she doesn't, just basically what she always does. Was disappointing.

No. 275931

I'm gonna be honest Bayonetta looks and acts like a troon self insert power fantasy, every thing about her character weirds me out and plus I think the game is ugly asf

No. 276007

Ok I have a topic because I think about it a lot and I'm befuddled on the solution.
So you have these shows/movies that are trying to do gritty realism in a scenario that is 99% male, so organised crime and violence stuff like that. Example for Tv is Sopranos, movie example would be like City of God.
So most characters are male which makes complete sense because it's realistic that there aren't female gangsters. However, the female characters in this media are usually used to further male plot by having violence inflicted onto them, or simply being a love interest for a man and nothing else. Obviously TV and Film differ since one can be much longer.
Is the solution for these shows to have no female characters if the realism they're going for would never include women as part of the action? It's hard to get into something that's 99% male characters but it's also hard to get into something where violence is one of the only storylines these women get.

No. 276010

I'd rather watch a show with no female characters than one that has its few female characters constantly be victims of violence or be background noise without contributing anything, but that's just me.

No. 276016

The solution would be to have better written female characters. Taking female characters out entirely feels like a "gotcha" or "See, i thought you women are only good for sex and being objects." I'd rather just have better written female characters over all, even in crime syndicate type shows.

No. 276019

copout. you can have female gangsters. you can have female law enforcement. male gangsters can have mothers and daughters. the love interest doesn't have to be just a love interest who's constantly victimized.

No. 276028

I like crime/gang shows and it's definitely possible to have interesting female characters in those while staying realistic - women exist in those settings too and a non-sexist writer who's actually dedicated to making good characters would have lots of opportunity to create and develop interesting women. I'd actually consider the Sopranos a pretty good example of doing this right, the leading female characters in that felt like they were given the same amount of focus and complexity as the male characters.

No. 276031

100%, any sort of fictional tv/movie thing like this is going to take certain liberties where it chooses to be unrealistic and its veeerry telling that having relevant female characters that aren't just for sex and to be victims of violence is frequently deemed as specifically being too unrealistic. Like, standard action shit can have the most unrealistic scene of some dude easily taking out multiple other men but a woman fighting successfully is "crossing the line". The truth is that the lack of realism necessary for women to be relevant and not victims of misogyny isn't anything that wild its just the men involved in these shows don't want to imagine scenarios like that

No. 276096

I don't really understand why a woman winning a fight is considered unrealistic in the first place when guns exist. A woman with a gun is just as dangerous as a man with a gun and a man's muscle mass won't protect him from a bullet through the head.

No. 276692

What this >>275866 nonna said.
Maybe some women will see it as a power fantasy if a very sexualized woman (which they have been conditioned to want to be like) does some cool shit while looking like the feminine ideal of beauty, but here's an actual female power fantasy: being able to shoot a scrote in the dick for catcalling you and let him slowly bleed to death. It's something that every woman has fantasized about because we feel, and most often are, utterly powerless when we're objectified by men, and we wish we had the power to stop it.

Moids have had their own power fantasies that involve treating women like crap and killing innocents for their own sick satisfaction for millennia. A woman with huge tits in a leather catsuit and stilettos shooting some generic bad guys, made by men for the satisfaction of males in the audience before women, is a pretty lame excuse for a "female power fantasy" and we deserve better than that. But writers are pussies and/or hate women too much to give us that.

No. 277681

File: 1677123096263.png (66.92 KB, 720x532, Screenshot.png)

I hate when either of these things happens but the 2nd one annoys me so much.

Are there any female characters that you think were treated similarly to how some male characters are in fandoms/stories? Vriska from Homestuck kind of gives me that feeling. She was pretty popular while also being hated and despite her being 'problematic' she was still given a good amount of importance in the story to the point where she felt like a creators pet.

No. 277981

beautiful and mysterious is enough for teen guys lol

No. 278878

File: 1677488712014.png (786.36 KB, 1280x1477, tumblr_fa716e1a2cdbf3e9fe0938b…)

i'm just going to rant about makima; i really hate how the fandom treats her. one side is running rampant with coomers who are obsessed with her as a 'mommy dommy' and the others gloss over her character with 'yass! girlboss' then go on to write essays about the boys. which is fair, do what you want, but it still pisses me off.

she's creepy and severe in canon. she isn't nurturing at all, she isn't "seductive" – every character that "loves" her was manipulated through her devil powers. denji fell for her flirtations (which are very disturbing on a second read, after you learn it's not just a high-octane shonen gorefest) because he's underage + lived a shit, loveless life. everyone else either fears her (power, angel devil, etc.) or outright mistrusts her (kishibe).

and her ultimate goal is to "save the world" via a forced cleansing using pochita's crazy deus ex machina ability…

i feel like it's rare to see a female villain that's just evil, straight up. evil without also being a sex object. i wish people could appreciate her and see past the handful of scenes where she preys on denji tbh

No. 278893

Vriska was a tranny fantasy for gross coomers. It's always a bad sign when female characters with potential garner a tranny fandom because they all glorify mental illness.

In fact I'm wondering if there's not a heavy self-insert element which hints at authors being eggs. Like Makima from CSM.

No. 278939

>without being a sex object
Except she is deliberately written to be flirtatious sexy dommy mommy up until the reveal that she was playing it up to manipulate Denji because she wanted to fuck Pochita.
What does this even mean? I hate Vriska too but she isn't a tranny, anon. If anything the creepy tranny fetish shit was pushed onto Jade (do not read Homestuck Epilogues or 2 for your own sanity).

No. 278953

>Except she is deliberately written to be flirtatious sexy dommy mommy
that's what i'm saying, she isn't sexy or flirtatious outside of like a single scene that is more weird and predatory than sexual. in every other scene she is domineering (not in the sexy way!) and cold
i always wonder if people would see makima as some grand femme fatale archetype if she were male. like everything is exactly the same, she's just a dude; probably not, right?

vriska was transed out though

No. 278989

>makima wouldn't be seen as sexy if she was male
Yes she would. She'd be a Christian Grey-type sexualized abuser if the genders were reversed or if it was M/M. Hell there'd probably be way more Denji/Makima shipping if Makima was male.

No. 303368

more of a vent. but i'm so irritated nonnies
>cool female villain introduced in this online novella thing i've been reading
>love her, she usurped her husband to succeed his place in their government, total bad-ass
>latest chapter provides another example of how she's "evil":
>she aborted her child so she could focus on politics/regularly does this whenever she gets pregnant
>described as "murder" and a "tragedy"
this has basically soiled her for me. time to find something else to read i guess

No. 303448

File: 1687249971770.jpeg (138.33 KB, 828x1261, IMG_9943.jpeg)

i thought shiv was a very well written flawed character with realistic flaws and a good study if a woman raised in a misogynistic circle.
but the way the fandom treats her is appalling, either they fall for the "girlboss" shit (when shic is a decinsytucrion of the girlboss if anything) or they act like she's an evil witch for being mean to their mediocre male favorite.

No. 303585

File: 1687289434977.png (Spoiler Image,580.6 KB, 1920x1080, succession.s04e10.1080p.web.h2…)

i love shiv but the way she betrayed kendall in the finale was pretty fucked. why side with your shitty husband (who fucked you over numerous times and outright admitted to only being with you for your $$$) over your brother.

No. 303642

because her brother also fucked her over and over every chance he got? she already got a taste of how things would be during most of season 4 where as soon as he became interim ceo he immediately sidelined her. and kendall was very clearly turning into logan before her eyes
ultimately she was faced with only bad choices.
the motive behind her choices are a complicated and here's certainly a part of jealousy/selfishness but that's what makes her a complex character.
but as muchh as i hae tom i also really, really fucking hate kendall so i might be hiased hr

No. 315164

File: 1692166504510.jpg (59.05 KB, 750x500, IMG_3208.jpg)

pretty much all of the female characters in brba deserved way more character depth and consistency. shame the whole show went on with skyler being pushed down, rather than take the opportunity to let anna shine. as another nona said, i'm also glad kim was so well written and given attention, though god damn theres so many feetfag shots its so obvious ugh.

anyways, i post here to be a lydiafag, there's so much unsaid for how she ended up/stays in the business or about her homelife, and besides a cute scene where she's like "doesn't prison get people killed?", we don't see much of her in BCS. i just really love how neurotic she is, but also how she isn't the usual "girlboss" kind of villain, she's pathetic and can't stand to look at the murders she orders, is stressed out 24/7, and kind of socially retarded but is also smart and tactical where she can plan train heists, and (attempts) to manipulate things so she stays alive. i just wish she wasn't as one note and we got fuller slices of life for her like we did for gus and the wine scene, mike with his family, jimmy's past etc. people say plain greed is the reason she's there but you could say that for walt, gus and saul etcetc and it'd still be true, but there's also something else underneath/adjacent to that (pride, family, succeeding in the system, revenge). lydia has a child but we really don't know much except lydia is busy and has a nanny, and "dont kill me i have a child". i just wish we saw more lydia rodarte quayle.

No. 350979

i'm in this online writing group (rp) and it's annoying to see women create ""deconstructions"" of female archetypes like damsels in distress and femme fatales i just…it's never done well, even if the writers in question are competent. i'm lurking on someone writing a did "deconstruction" right now and she's essentially playing into the trope 1000% with the occasionally witty aside that's like "um! sorry boys, but you know i can take care of myself, right ;)" like cool retard but if you can do that then why aren't you? how is this any different from regular damsels.

this could've gone in /ot/'s vent but it felt more pertinent here (i also just want to see this thread revived)

No. 355901

File: 1707899303360.jpg (3.65 MB, 4096x3276, 2055254.jpg)

I feel like this character trope isn't talked about despite being pretty common, especially in western animation. The female character who is obsessively in love with the main character, to the point of becoming violent and aggressive, and tends to be extremely pushy and annoying. They almost never get punished by the narrative, and often end up together with the man they're obsessed with

No. 355903

No. 355904

I wouldn't consider Lola like that tbh, her portyal in the Looney Tunes show, seems be more like a "well meaning retard" which usually given to male characters.

No. 355909

It's true that she is a retard, but she's also an obsessed pushy stalker with no clue about boundaries. She feels like an early 2010s take on the crazy gf meme

No. 355910

that's still more personality then her in spacejam, also wouldn't call her a stalker cause they start dating in the first episode they meet.

No. 357101

File: 1708348924460.jpg (1.6 MB, 1415x2000, Koroshi_Ai.jpg)

Most media tend to have the self-insert as a Mary Sue, but in some cases the self insert is utterly pathetic, the woe-is-me type. Just an observation.

No. 357931

File: 1708660193286.png (824.74 KB, 640x815, IMG_2391.png)

Pearl might have been unintentionally one of the best written female characters in western cartoons in a really long time.
Idk how Pearl is perceived here, I know that anything related to SU is pure cringe and the people involved have provided endless drama, yet they managed to craft a fucked up and tragic character. Going back and seeing some of the older scenes is so shocking in hindsight of everything we know about Pink Diamond.

I wish SU was less cringe because I want to endlessly fangirl over Pearl, she fits the type of characters I love but unfortunately are almost always men.

No. 357936

I remember watching a bit of this waiting for her to pull her shit together but dropping it fairly early. Does that ever happen?

No. 357953

Agree so hard.

No. 359611

The only one here I truly can't stand is Panini. Chowder has a lot of sexist tropes for gags if I recall correctly. Greenblatt's writing pissed me off even as a young teen.

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