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This thread is for the discussion of transgenderism from a gender critical and radical feminist perspective. It was originally created by Admin as an amalgamation of the TERF and transgender threads.
Previous thread >>>/ot/221232
TERF thread >>>/g/67378
Transpassing thread >>>/ot/214811
Transwomen thread >>>/ot/203215
Gender critical and radical feminism define gender
as sociological (feminine/masculine) and sex
as biological (female/male). Woman
is defined as an adult human female. Gender critical feminists seek to abolish gender as it is used by patriarchy to oppress women socially, reproductively, and financially. They strive to preserve women's spaces (such as restrooms, locker rooms, and health care providers) and areas of artistic and intellectual expression separate from men.
Transgenderism posits that one's gender is self-determined based on one's feelings and defines woman
as the characteristics and behaviors traditionally ascribed to females by society. Increasingly, transactivists are conflating gender and sex and asserting that a person can self-identify both gender and sex.
Gender critical feminists strive to maintain the distinction between gender and sex. The conflation of gender and sex erases the biological reality of women, eliminates women-only spaces, and disestablishes women as a protected class.
The acronym TERF (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism) is used primarily by transactivists and their allies to denigrate radical feminists and other women who express gender critical ideas. Transactivists portray TERFs as violent oppressors by virtue of their ideas alone.
Posts of related news and web articles are welcome. Posts of photos, videos, and blogs of transactivists for the purposes of discussion and critique are welcome. Please refrain from derailing, infighting, and ad hominem attacks. This thread is not intended for the general discussion of sexuality, misogyny, and misandry.
4th Wave Nowhttps://4thwavenow.com
I just checked tumblr today for the first time in a long, long while and saw something about rudfems/nicefems, does anyone have any idea what either of those terms mean?Someone I follow posted something along the lines of "radfems are turning on rudfems lmao" but even after searching the term on both tumblr and google, I still don't fucking get it.
Speaking of tumblr, someone asked at the end of the previous thread why did trans bullshit gain so much traction and sympathy now, and from my perspective, tumblr played a big role in that.
An anon on the previous thread also said we're "obsessed, because no normal person cares that much about tumblr snowflakes", but I'm growing more and more worried, this shit has left tumblr long ago. I'm from BRAZIL and the government passed a law this week that allows people to change their name and sex on their registry, literally no questions asked. No need for surgery, or hormones, or even a formal diagnosis.
Perhaps here we could have a proper discussion about this issue, I think everyone here know a 'fakeboi/transtrender' ftM phenomenon.
I have a friend who fits into most of the usual stereotype in that thread (yaoi/slash fan, i'm so gay boi,cute boi fashion, cosplay, drag race, no actual physical dysphoria) in his/her early 20s
Talking to him/her it looks like she is from a religious background and conflated gender roles and expectation and stronger sense of gender and haven't got dysphoria before getting into Tumblr stuff and believe her/himself s/he should be a boy then fail to be one. 'she' was an GNC straight girl who was also in abusive relationship before.
I have never been in gender critical discourse before but for a long time it feels like his/her transgenderism is misguided, like a gut feeling it is likely wrong be wrong. S/he told me s/he has made his/her mind that this is his/her real identity being a man. It's just because I had that one phase of strong feeling of wanting to be a boy, and it's all gone for me.
I've met many transgenders out of my life and there are many that feel legit to me. He'll, I have a 'FtM' friend who present much more masculine in socialization than the cute boi I talked beforehand but never wanted transition out of complications.
I tried to be supportive but I am legitimately scared that s/he will regret HRT. But s/he seems decisive now so I can't do any, and needed to let him/her learn the hard way.
so here's my question
- Why is this particular Tumblr phenomenon looks so contagious, they generally are into the same things and dressing the same way. No 'real' dysphoria for whatsoever.
- Do you think there will be a massive surge of detransitioners in the near future? Do you think what will end up of these uwu boi in their 30s?
I believe it's so popular because you're instantly part of a club and you suddenly have a support network of other women who are confused about gender expectations.
I had a time when I struggled with my gender, I was really confused and needed to work some things out. But as soon as I properly left puberty behind things got a lot easier, and I understood that I don't have any problem with my body, and stopped giving a shit about gender expectations.
This made me put on a tinfoil suit to go with the tinfoil hat. This is a BIZARRE
turn of events, we don't get laws/legislation (idk the correct term) approved that quickly… unless it benefits rich and powerful people
. Most of the population is still very socially conservative and disapproving of anything they deem "left wing", they weren't the ones pushing for this.
And on top of that, as you said, it's not only a pro-trans law but an extreme, reckless one. I'm legitimately worried that this might be an experiment to see what the consequences will be (maybe so they can do the same in other countries?)
I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories, but I can't see how this would be anything but.
I'm the Anon you're replying to and am borderline asexual myself, that's why I know the attempts to make it an "orientation" on the "spectrum" seems like the work of a bunch of try-hards with no personality who just want a handy club to join/want to seem special with no effort on their part.
Romantic stuff can be avoided or ignored, just like anything else that doesn't affect the person (e.g. Sports). Explaining why you're single is a lot
easier than coming out, so tacking themselves onto LGBT seems tacky when it wasn't their club to join in the first place. Unless they're gay AND ace in which case doesn't one cancel out the other? How can you have a sexuality and also no sexual interest at once?
Tbh anon - and please don’t think I’m insulting you, I’m speculating based on your comment - it honestly sounds like you just don’t like yourself very much and are therefore projecting that feeling onto a group who apparently want to feel like they belong to something.
Romantic/sexual stuff can be ignored sure, but it’s in every form of media. It’s the basis of most songs, it appears in every film and book, and many photos/artworks are about it too. Sports isn’t equatable to that because doing sport isn’t a basic human function that is basically the primary purpose of life and so appears in nearly everything as a major theme.
I’d be more supportive of ace people in the orientation spectrum than fucking trans people. I could get on board with LGBA instead!
Idk, I see your point with the media thing because I think it does
reflect itself with my taste in movies/tv shows (meaning stuff like HBO dramas and Netflix is avoided like the plague since they seem to be overtly sexual)
It's a bit more complex with books, music, art because a lot of what I find unappealing is just generally trashy even if the reason why it's trashy is because it's sexual. I guess it's just not a problem compared to being gay and (prior about 2 years ago) being left out of everything, or for example being autistic and not seeing life in the same way you're expected to. Being ace is like a first-world problem which doesn't really have a negative impact, and may even have a positive one as it frees up a lot of time where you're not thinking about/having sex.
He can’t make you lie. You chose to do that for him. Why would you lie for anyone?
So, now you see what your function is, you’re not his friend, you’re his shieldmaiden who protects him from the big bad world and validates his mental illness. Not actually trying to be a bitch, but this is why you see a lot of GC women who are beyond frustrated. You have no worth besides being a template he can copy and a bulldog to scare off the nasty terfs. Walk away and don’t look back. You owe this person nothing. Stop erasing yourself for the greater tranny glory.
If you read 4th wave now, it seems that more and more girls are desisting. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking, but they have a series of mother/daughter conversations there, as well as stories of adult desisters who are now trying to find a path through life, now that the T has messed them up in many ways, and how to go forward from there. I think 4th wave now is an amazing resource because it shows us that there’s hope, for the girls, at least. But the moms have to be on top of their parenting game, and no one wants to do that shit anymore. The boys are coming from munchie moms, full stop. Adult trannies are AGP. No mystery there.
It’s all social contagion, though. It’s the same reason news channels used to, once upon a time, dial way back on the discussion of teen suicide and mass shooters. Social contagion is real, and it plays a huge factor in what’s being called rapid onset gender dysphoria, i.e tumblr trenders.
I think the things we see happening in places like Brazil or even Canada—child is removed from the home because waaaah I want to be like all the other kids, give me my hormone!—is to keep people distracted from the greater issues. I’ve been voting a long time. Unfortunately, both sides are the same. When you start out, you don’t see this, but get through ten or twelve voting cycles and you begin to realize that what interests those in power is power, and keeping it. Actual change that filters down to the working class occurs rarely. So they allow the plebs things that we think are about freedom but ultimately add up to nothing. Trans is seen by them as a power grab, a way to make tons of money by creating a permanently handicapped class who will need lots of big pharma for the rest of their natural born lives, and makes them said cash via lobbyists and special interest groups. Just look at all the women in Congress. Where are the GC politicians taking a stand for women? The sad fact is they care more about making the money than they do women’s safety, or the mutilated bodies of kids.
In recent years, the transgender community has started advancing an ideology that creates psychological distress, especially in young people. While trans activists in the news media (like Janet Mock and Laverne Cox) talk about transgender issues in a way that makes them sound tame, the reality is different once gender questioning and confused individuals make their way to trans groups online.In these groups, teenagers who feel uncomfortable with their bodies and adults with depression and anxiety are coached–yes, coached–into thinking the source of their discomfort is a lifelong dysphoria that can only be corrected via sterilizing cross-sex hormones and, often, disfiguring surgeries.You may not believe that this coaching or recruitment happens, or maybe you’ve already had experience with it. Either way, this blog aims to show evidence that transgender groups online are actively recruiting children, pressuring children and young adults to make irreversible bodily changes as young as possible, and turning them away from any family members or friends who do not support every aspect of transgender ideology.https://transgenderreality.com/about/
If they’re not protecting the rights of women and they value tranny votes that much, then I’m not voting for them. The trans narrative is a locomotive at this point and if they aren’t speaking up about this, I’m going to try my hardest to get them out. They ~are on the wrong side of history, and people in a hundred years will look back and see how barbaric this was. Human experimentation, like eugenics and lobotomies and Tuskegee. Women who are pro-trans should never be making decisions that affect real women.
They always insist that the reams of MTT who violently offend were never ‘real trans’. I know there are some women out there who can be violent. I know that women can commit murder. But trans are so sainted and holy, anon! No bedazzled pinky would ever be lifted to do another person harm, it’s just not possible! They’re detached from reality, straight up.
Ayrt and I’m glad you know that you’re better and stronger than this shit who’s been using you.
I lost friends too. It sucks, a lot. But once you start putting out feelers, I think that you’ll find there are others out there who refuse to play this game, too. I think a lot of us have gone through a period of staying mum because we’re afraid of the backlash, what kind of awful bullshit is that? Trannies want and need for us to be afraid and quiet, they want us divided and infighting amongst ourselves so they can get what they want, which is to be creepy skinwalkers.
Hang in there!
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I'm not a TERF or whatever myself but check this site if you haven't seen it: terfisaslur.com. It's screenshots of violent threats from trannies.
>>232008>I also hate how so many people try to say it's not a mental illness. How the fuck is being in so much distress over your genitals that you're willing to mutilate yourself not a mental illness???
Same anon. If a person has dysmorphia and wants to cut off their leg or their arm they are seen as insane, but for some reason mutilating your genitals is encouraged. It's so bizarre to me.
And the same people who think that people are whatever gender they ~feel~ they are, think that white people who feel like they are asian or black on the inside (like Rachel Dolezal) are horrible racists.
Came to lc as a lurker via the Raven thread, have been lurking on the recent trans/critical threads on /ot and I guess I’m a granny, looking for help all over the internet. My fourteen year old daughter is telling me she’s a trans man, and I’m terrified. The reason I thought to post in this thread is because I know lc skews towards young women, do any of you have any ideas? How would you want to be approached about something you don’t necessarily want to be approached about? I also lurk 4th wave, which I know is more specific to what’s happening, but I thought some of you might have some ideas, as young women who are already gender critical. What brought you to this point? Was there something that you saw or experienced with friends that made you turn away from the current obsession with gender? If it were a friend, and you were worried, what would you say to her?
She’s always been GNC and was happy with that until recently. I’m fairly certain she’s a lesbian, though she’s not out yet, and she’s always been supported in however she chooses to perform or not perform femininity. Her dad is present and a part of her life. She’s not got abuse or sexual trauma in her past. She’s so angry right now and she’s shutting me out and not wanting to talk about that, or why she feels so angry. We’re not religious, not conservative, it almost feels like this is just the new form of rebellion for girls her age. I probably would not have posted here if we weren’t in an informed consent state and the threat of testosterone wasn’t looming.
Hopefully posting correctly. I feel desperate.
Just tell her you love her and that the ways she chooses to 'present' herself are based on socially constructed preconceptions of gender anyway, not to mention completely unimportant.
Don't let her do anything irreversible ?
>>232032>Was there something that you saw or experienced with friends that made you turn away from the current obsession with gender?
Critical sense and being curious about opinions and positions that differ from my own. If your daughter likes to have actual discussions with good, actual arguments, she'll eventually read gender critical material in order to know how to refute it (that's how I realized identity politics was bullshit).
Could also try the Socratic method, asking questions and letting her come to right conclusion.
If she's not asking you for HRT or getting it on her own, I'd advise you to leave the subject alone for a little while and as >>232050
said, make sure she knows it's normal to be uncomfortable with your own body when you're a teenager, and that it goes away. And that if it doesn't, she can get her transition when she's 18.
Maybe make a kind of ultimatum with her. Approach her as if you're wavering on the HRT thing or whatever it is she wants from you, and ask her to lay out (extensively) exactly how she feels and what she wants to do about it, and if she knows exactly what it means to do the thing she wants to do. Getting angry and blowing you off wouldn't benefit her in anyway, so she may take the bait. At the very least, you might be able to have a true conversation about it with her, wherein you could slip in some of >>232050
My dad would do this whenever I was trying to make a big decision on my own at a young age. It would piss me the hell off, but at the end of the day, if I got angry at him for doing this, the idea was usually poorly thought out/impulsive. If she's critical enough, this might start sowing seeds of doubt.
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His weak response.https://mobile.twitter.com/MunroeBergdorf/status/969883476680986624
He has made several misogynistic statements in the last year.
lawl, knew it. John. of course.
why on earth do trannies go for these purple prose, triple hyphenated, or otherwise retarded Harlequin romance novel names? Munroe Bergdorf does not sound classy or cool. it sounds like ‘bimbo stripper tee hee’ and this dumbfuck should have picked something simple like Anne, but noooooo, need to get the most attention possible at all times.
I’m also over ‘marginalized’ people ranting about whitey. you sound tired, take a nap.
Why he gots to bleach his skin? Looks like Ian has more than one problem, clearly not stable.
Love the movement from ‘worthless tranny model’ to ‘pseudo govt. official’, what will these little dears think of next?
Yeah, if a real girl looked like that she wouldn't be able to get much further than Halloween costume model, but men and trannies get a pass for only being about 6.5-7/10.
Looks like he's had a shitload of plastic surgery too, yet it's still glaringly obvious that he's just a twink in drag. Sad!
They sound like one because they are an angry dude. Don't take their bait!
Hmm. Name's probably something like Lillie Marie Sackville-Woolfe. You think maybe?
Munroe needs her own thread.
She is the quintessential product of a culture so PC it allows someone with an intellect raised by buzzfeed and teenvogue articles to talk on a national platform.
Instead of acknowledging their naivety, when they are called out, they double down and launch careers as perpetual victims in response to the inevitable backlash.
Everything she does is drenched in irony and hypocrisy it's the milkiest thing ever.
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>>232076>Another effeminate misogynistic gay guy who transitioned because he was bullied for being girly
I seriously have a problem with therapists and doctors NOT FUCKING SEEING the connection of being rejected by their peers of the same gender as an adolescent with gender dysphoria. Any dumb fuck can draw a line from point A to point B, how come medical professionals don't take this into consideration?
>In an exchange with a friend on Twitter in 2012 she wrote: "Aren't you meant to be crying over the fact that your womb is broken you hairy barren lesbian."
This creature needs to go.
Sorry, can you elaborate on this statement?>>the connection of being rejected by their peers of the same gender as an adolescent with gender dysphoria
I’m having a brain fart atm.
Hi, I hope I'm not too late.
I just want to suggest that you help the kid yourself instead of taking her to a psychologist who will just drug her or worse. This means you'll become her therapist. (If you absolutely must get someone else to do it, at least choose one that hasn't graduated recently, and trained in college at a time in which this specific pathology wasn't treated like it is today. They diagnose using the DSM-V nowadays, try one who learned under the DSM-IV or earlier, or is into Gestalt Therapy.)
I don't have a degree in psychology, I just read a lot of books about it, but I as far as I know there isn't exactly a therapy developed for people with gender dysphoria that has had great results. Gender Dysphoria is also the only illness among all those in which people want to mutilate themselves where it’s being suggested that they go ahead and cut of their body part.
In the case of your granddaughter, though, and of most people doing the trans change these days, I'm very skeptic that they actually have that dysphoria.
Consider talking to her taking these three perspectives as your starting point, the ones you mentioned:
a) that she is a woman;
b) that she is a lesbian;
c) that she is rebelling.
About a), she is at an age in which her period might have arrived. That alone can be a burden, if she finds the pads uncomfortable, if she doesn’t like the hassle of having to switch them every few hours, or if she has very acute pains. If she is feeling this, it’s possible that she thinks being a man and getting on hormones to stop her period would suit her best.
Also about being a woman, she might be uncomfortable with the stereotypical gender role assigned to her. She might not like the expectations that she should be bossed around, or be demure, or being obedient, or of being perceived has having no value beyond her looks, or of being assumed stupid, or not defending her interests, or risking pregnancy and sexual assault, etc. All of these things, and so many others, if they concern her enough, might make her think it would be easier to just be a man. Even if it happened to a friend or acquaintance she knows and not herself, they might worry her.
About b), specially since she isn’t out yet, even if she lives in the most progressive and accepting community ever, if she happens to have a crush on a straight girl and get rejected, she will attribute her sadness to the other person being of a different sexual orientation, and might feel like maybe she’d have a chance if she was a guy. And this is in an accepting community; imagine what she might feel like if that straight girl rejected her nastily and told everybody about her being a lesbian without her wanting to accept that about herself yet. If something like this happens, or is even a possibility because she already likes another girl she doesn’t think she has much of a chance with, it’s all the more fuel for her to believe being a man would solve her problems.
Also on being a lesbian, if she was exposed to straight porn, she might think that at least if she is a man, she won’t be treated like those women in porn. And if she was exposed to lesbian porn, that is still made for men, she might feel like she doesn’t relate to it and doesn’t want to do it, although she still finds women attractive, and so might think that being a man would fix that for her.
About c), if she is truly just rebelling and has no identity issue with being a woman, it’s very simple to change her mind, just use reverse psychology. Find an adult she despises, and have that adult pretend she wants to be trans. If possible, have her accompany that adult to doctors appointments, have the adult inquire the doctor extensively on the maintenance of the post-op, the problems with the surgery itself, and the reality of life after transitioning, in which straight women will want nothing to do with her because they like dicks, and lesbian women won’t either because they don’t like dicks - and she’ll be right in the in-between with a small one, pleasing nobody. Have the adult play up whatever traits she dislikes in her. She’ll conclude in no time that if X person, who is a twat, wants that, she doesn’t want it anymore, and it’s not such a cool thing after all.
To help her, if you think she is genuinely uncomfortable with being a woman, aim to dismantle the core of that belief – that if you don’t fulfill the gender stereotype, you are trans. You do it by showing her that most people aren’t walking stereotypes, they have degrees of stereotypical male and female traits, on both genders.
So you should at first, as homework, figure out what media she consumes and what ideas her friends have on the subject. What blogs or websites does she go to, and what are her friends like? For the first you might need a little snooping, but for the friends you can just invite them around and listen in.
You will then be able to figure out what she might think about it the trans subject, what ideas and opinions she weighs in. Once you know that, make a list of all the female role models she admires. Think heroic women from movies, tv shows, books, games, and her own life. Then remove any that might be 100 % stereotypically female. For example, a high powered career woman who is obedient at home can stay on your list; but a conventionally pretty housewife who is very obedient can’t.
Then you go to her, and ask her to define what a woman is, and pay lots of attention to what she says. Her definition of what a woman is, the stereotype in her mind is what you need to disprove, but be discreet about it. If she says a woman is nice, you mention the role models that she admires that aren’t nice, and ask her if she thinks they are still women. If she says a woman is obedient, you mention the people that she admires who aren’t obedient, same thing. If she says a woman is pretty, you ask her if the ugly women she admires are still women. And so on. You can even, if she likes you, ask her if she thinks you are not a woman for not being X, like she defines women as. Just be careful if she defines women as being able to get pregnant, to not give her examples of trans to counter the stereotype. Only people born as women can be used as a reference. They are the ones being domesticated from inception, and the ones who break away from that domestication, and are never alike those who adopt another gender as a gimmick. Don’t suggest to her that trans are women to counter the stereotype of woman=impregnable, mention women who are infertile if you have to.
In doing this, don’t push an agenda on her, and try to keep the questions open ended so she can explain her thoughts, rather than give her options to choose from. For example, don’t ask her why she thinks women are weak if she didn’t say women are weak, instead ask her if she thinks women have undesirable traits, and let her expand on it. She might start to notice that her thoughts don’t match reality and correct them herself. If she doesn’t, you could try a non-obtrusive way of interpreting her inner conflict. You start out by telling her that you had a thought about this, and then ask her if she wants to hear it. If she says yes, you can tell her what you are seeing. For example, that you notice that she believes women should be obedient, and perhaps she’d like to be free to disobey things she objects to. You can elaborate that she can do it, because woman Z she admires does too, but make sure it doesn’t come out as if you’re trying to control her.
The general course of action is what the other anons mentioned, have an accepting environment, in which she can freely choose to be who she is, and no stereotype is imposed on her. The assigned role is what she is discontent with, and it should be corrected by showing her she can be someone else without surgery.
I’m sorry this was so long, if you’d like to talk more I can give you an email for us to chat. Good luck!
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just posted about her in the fakebois thread, but i thought it would fit better here
Lou Sullivan, an FTT who, after lying about her sex to gay men and then fucking them (aka "stealth sex"), got pozzed and eventually died of AIDS to validate her gender identity.
“I feel like it’s almost a poetic justice that I’ve spent my whole life trying to be a gay man and running into a lot of opposition and being told that I couldn’t do it, that it was impossible, and I feel like in a way this AIDS diagnosis - because AIDS is still seen at this point as a gay man’s disease - that it kind of proves that I did do it and I was successful. And I kind of took a perverse pleasure in contacting the gender clinics that rejected me and said that they’ve told me so many years that it was impossible for me to live as a gay man but it looks like I’m gonna die like one”
This is something that people don't talk about anymore. There was an article on one of the Gawker sister sites a few years ago, where gay guys all took PrEP for a month or months, nearly all of them went crazy sleeping with tons of people and got STDs but none got AIDS so it was considered a success.
The idea of not caring that you have multiple STDs is something that seems present in the gay scene (meaning clubbing/bars/meet up spots and not relationships, and I'm sure present in the straight scene too)
So it's an awful cliche which is also a reality that this person died by. Also all those guys knew she was a FtM otherwise they would've been reaching for the dick.
Horrible story but yeah.
There's also proven government stats that show certain STDs which are common in M/M but not M/F pairings have risen very significantly since 2010 and the rise of online dating/hookups.
I guess my point is you shouldn't idealize a community to the point of literally killing yourself to be part of it, and this applies to FtM and gay guys.
The level of the mental illness and death seeking behavior here is staggering and depressing. Vindicated by dying of a disease that straight women can also catch? So much delusion. This is horribly sad.
At the same time, I’m sickened by people who deceive anyone into having sex with them. I think going stealth is repellent. Sexual intimacy can’t be based on a lie. It feels wrong to me. Like rape.
I will never understand people who make something as fucking mundane as gender or sexuality the cornerstone of their life. Gender/sex is just something that you are, it's meaningless, it doesn't have anything to do with who you want to be or become. It's not a profession, it's not a trait that you have to work for and achieve, it's not important. Fuck off with this bullshit that being a gay man is some sort of accomplishment, or anything any real, sane person should ever give a shit about beyond actual gay men.
I think this is my main problem with a lot of transgender snowflakes; they pretend that women are always thinking about how much of a woman they are, obsessing over looks and petty 'I have b00bs ecks-dee!' bullshit, when real women are just goddamn women and have lives. Act like a fucking adult and live with who you happen to be born as and get a fucking life, you petty weirdos.
Have sex with who you want, dress up in whatever clothes you like, just don't wear your '''womanhood''' like a fucking medal when 50% of people on Earth do it without anyone giving a single shit about them. Get over yourself.
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and why would he? The show from its foundations is about gender as a construct so why would it include people that demanded otherwise?http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rupaul-drag-race-transgender-guardian-interview-gender-identity-patriarchy-a8239041.html#gallery
^ article above is pretty cringe, comments are gold.
>>232194>and I'm sure present in the straight scene too
As far as I know it isn't, at least not where I'm from. I lived the promiscuous college party life and everyone was pretty serious about being clean and staying clean.>>232226
I used to hate this show but this made me at least respect Rupaul.
do you watch drag race? they are scored on their imitation of a woman. the judges always talk about how they created a waist, the bodyshape of a woman by using creative styling skills.
you put a bio female on the show and she's already got huge advantage in the competition because she has a female body.
If females want to exaggerate their femininity they could just wear a tight dress lol
Sorry, I was half asleep when typing out that sentence. I meant that people who experience gender dysphoria in their adulthood often have traumas related to their gender they experienced in their adolescence, such as bullying for being too feminine for a boy or too masculine for a girl. He's been very open about being bullied as a kid for being effeminate and so have been many other trans people as well. They've basically been pushed into transitioning by the trauma caused by their peers. >>232177>>232179
nayrt It doesn't have to be a physical sexual assault per se, it could just as well be any trauma related to sexuality. And even if it doesn't apply in all cases, it's still a noticeable reason. I personally know plenty of fakeboys who have been sexually assaulted or harassed and that has triggered
their dysphoria. You want to get everything feminine off your body to protect yourself from experiencing it ever again. I've done that too, I've wore chest binders and male clothing as protection.
There’s a difference between a male-dominated culture and the patriarchy. Technically Ru Paul is part of the male-dominated culture because he is a man, supporting other men to be successful. What is he doing to advance a female-dominated - or equal, for that matter - culture? I’m not over-reacting, I’m responding to a comment on an image board with my opinion. Over reaction would be threatening to murder him or some shit. >>232235
Yes I have, and tbh that doesn’t mean anything. Lots of women don’t have a “womanly” shape, so please tell me again how it doesn’t enforce stereotypes of women. Do you have hourglass curves? Because I certainly don’t, and neither do many women I know. It would still be skilful if a woman could create that figure for herself with padding etc. Secondary to that, a lot of the guys on there get surgical enhancement to round their ass and hips, as admitted by Ru in that article, but that’s apparently okay? >>232247>points out one of the few “art queens” on the show in an attempt to disprove a clear truth about drag
Anomaly isn’t the rule, anon.
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>>232250>There’s a difference between a male-dominated culture and the patriarchy
No there isn't. Patriarchy describes a male-dominated culture unless you are using the word literally which would make you a conspiracy theorist.
>a lot of the guys on there get surgical enhancement to round their ass and hips, as admitted by Ru in that article, but that’s apparently okay
there's a difference between a non-invasive procedure and actual surgery
???? Ok you are showing very little understanding about anything and sound about 12 so you can stop posting now you would-be censurer
no one is stopping the creation of an all female drag race, which I'm sure would be fucking great
>no one is stopping the creation of an all female drag race
As in drag kings? Or women who imitate men who imitate women?
Are drag kings successful as satirizing toxic masculinity?
Are we getting too OT?
Drag Queen thread>>>/ot/224291
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It's not OT, 'progressives' trying to drag
Ru Paul is relevant because it displays the hypocrisy of their side of the argument and also highlights the failures of collectivised movements as a result of co-option and intersections of interests.
If drag, and feminism, were to retain one of their original messages; of gender roles and gender presentation as a social construct, then there is room for the involvement of children to be seen as harmless play, merely dress up, and a liberation from oppressive traditional values.
By allowing that position to be corrupted by a completely opposing set of beliefs i.e inherent modes of performed gender, people demanding recognition of authenticity for conforming to traditional or stereotypical representations of gender,'this is how i feel on the inside therefor I must permanently distort my body through irreversible surgery', the dialogues are subverted from their intended purposes and become something much more sinister.
>>232261>using the word literally makes you a conspiracy theorist
What the fuck are you talking about? Using the definition of a word to define a point is how language works, doesn’t it? Male-dominated does not necessarily mean the exclusion of women, patriarchy does. So actually, on reflection, you’re absolutely right that Ru is perpetuating a patriarchy. He’s enabling the success of men imitating women, and excluding women from doing the same.
…Yet both surgery and “non-invasive procedures” make men look more like women with no skill required on their behalf. Wanna avoid the point any harder? Kek
>you can stop posting now>you would-be censurer
Fuck off you retard. Formulate a proper argument then debate me, drag WK.
/sage for OT
yeah, but that sounds like bad diet rather than genetics.
i've saw fat drag queens on Ru Paul and their curves didn't help them because being fat is not the same as being a woman. he still didn't have a waist etc.
God are you being thick on purpose? Their anatomy is not male, that doesn’t mean that women are all Jessica Rabbits.
Imagine this any other way. Straight people parody gay stereotypes and potentially become rich/famous from it but gay people aren’t allowed to join in. White people parody black stereotypes and potentially become rich/famous but black people aren’t allowed to join in. Weird how when it’s men parodying female stereotypes and women can’t join in there’s so many women who can’t wait to WK the man who makes it popular because ~yaaaas hunty~
not all drag queens are Jessica Rabbits either. maybe look into the culture before you drag it. but if you google anorexic girls they will still have shape to them that men couldn't have. it's basic biology.
if women want to look like drag queens they could literally do so at any time by doing heavy make up. Ru Paul's Drag Race is a contest and for a fair competition they have to have rules. and Ru Paul is a LGBT icon, he's normalising feminine boys. The contestants are not always in drag and show their personalities not in costume. It is a good show for giving gay men a platform to express their creativity how they like. I doubt any of them will get pissed at me for wearing male clothes and not wearing make up.
I don't feel oppressed that I, a woman, can not compete in his drag race. I'm sure if I really wanted to I could do so elsewhere lol.
>>232273>first paragraph completely nonsensical>Ru is perpetuating a patriarchy
>avoiding the obvious difference between injection and silicone implant>>232271
my opinion is here if you're interested, but don't flatter yourself, no one is interested in 'debating' your screeching and a shallow evaluation of drag as offensive and misogynistic.
You are completely missing the point I’ve made about 4 times now. Did it occur to you that I have looked into it and I still don’t support it as a great thing? No one has said anything ITT that has changed my mind lmao. >>232285
Oh my god. Enjoy your evening with your two brain cells.
>>232292>drag has always felt like gay men making fun of straight men for liking superficial femininity.
Really good point, I have never thought of that angle.
You can argue there is an element of bitterness to it; like gay men in drag are only ever entertainment but the tools of their trade are what women can employ irl and with legitimacy. This sense of legitimacy might be what trans people are after idk.>>232295
she isn't agreeing with you and isn't saying drag is misogynistic, get back in your hole you utter fucking retard
In the video at 5:37>'it's like asking a man to explain feminism; it's patronising'
Holy fuck there is a pic of a girl I know in this article? It's "Lucy Fu(r)" (they wrote it wrong, it's a play word on Lucifer"
saged for OT, but that was shocking to me. She's not even part of the "scene" anymore.
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What is it with transwomen usually being mra's?
This post was in reply to a question about influential women throughout history.
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I mean, they are
men after all. Trans rights activism is legit just men's rights activism in rainbow thigh highs and a cock cage.
>>232343>drag is a female-centric glamorous beauty pageant for men>Beauty pageants are a female-centric glamorous beauty pageant for women.
>both of them using ideals of femininity never seen on the street/fabricated/exaggerated
They have nothing to do with each other? Ok because your opinion on drag has nowhere to go as soon as I make that comparison. It isn't that deep
People tryna be more SJW than each other by competing about their expert knowledge of Drag Race. It's very dull.
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You do realize Drag Kings are a thing, right?
Drag kings is the opposite to drag queens literally. The original comment suggested "drag queens for girls" and that is a pageant.
Drag kings is going into fakeboi territory.
Making an ugly thing beautiful (man to woman) is an achievement. Making a pretty thing ugly (girl/woman to man) is not. Using makeup to achieve that e.g drag king is just a pathetic attempt to be relevant/fit into the male sphere and is exactly
what a fakeboi does
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Presented without further comment
You’re the fucking retard here. You’ve made absolutely no points to explain why you are so vehemently against my opinion. Interesting how the MALE contestants on the show use the word “fishy” - long used to insult a woman by insinuating her vagina smells like fish - as a way to compliment those who look most like women. Almost like they don’t give a fuck about women and their history of social oppression, they just want to wear their skin because it makes them feel pretty. Who does that sound like? Because it sounds to me like MTT.
Sorry, I’ll stop derailing the thread now, I’m done with the gender critical/drag thing.
It's so disappointing that some radfems don't see drag as offensive. It's like blackface.
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>>232378>drag is like blackface>>232382>drag queens shouldn't ironically refer to themselves as female >>232385>drag queens don't want to break gender norms
hahahahaha so many fucking retards in this thread
Drag as a concept is the greatest ally you have; if you want to be gender critical, avoid a future of puberty blocking trans kids and the mainstream legitimisation of insanity. Instead you want to ignore all that for the sake of taking offence and muh misogyny then you are drenching yourself in as much irony and hypocrisy as the trans movement.
Can’t you read? Most of us aren’t fucking bothered that men are wearing dresses and makeup as an art form/performance. However most of us ITT don’t want actual men claiming identifiers like “ladies/girls” because the only thing drag queens aren’t fucking doing that trans people are is claiming to be actual women… except the ones who are, because they’re actually trans. But also allowed to be drag queens. Even though actual women aren’t.
Also how is performing gender norms breaking gender norms? Granted it’s men doing femininity, but they’re still reenforcing gender norms for women. Because all women are curvy, have big lips and eyes, love skirts & dresses tehe ~uwu~>inb4 there’s 3 quirky queens who don’t do this so haha cri harder
>men performing femininity in drag>women can’t perform femininity in drag>men claiming to be women can perform femininity in drag >huh duh ur a retard for not feeling like this supports you as a woman you SJW
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>>232391>Most of us aren’t fucking bothered
except you are because anons are screeching MISOGYNY >don’t want actual men claiming identifiers like “ladies/girls”
wanting to police use of language>the only thing drag queens aren’t fucking doing that trans people are is claiming to be actual women
and are the exact reason why they support a critique of the trans movement so succinctly, you would have realised this about 20 posts back if you weren't so wilfully fuckwitted>they’re actually trans. But also allowed to be drag queens. Even though actual women aren’t.
Accusing someone of not reading when this discussion literally sprang from Ru excluding trans and there are multiple examples of women doing drag.
>3 quirky queens
ANON DECLARES ONLY 3 QUIRKY QUEENS ARE NOT GUILTY OF WOMANFACE
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Did… did you accuse me of “policing language” by saying “men aren’t girls and therefore shouldn’t call themselves girls” then try and make drag queens out to be a critique of the trans movement? And I’m the fuckwit? Are you serious? Don’t tell me you’re one of those “uncomfortable around women so I stan the fuck out of gay/effeminate men instead”. This is partly why women are being forced into calling each other “females” in order to specify that they mean ~cis biological vagina-borns.
Yes Ru has excluded trans people, and if you read my comments I actually stated here >>232295
that the discourse it brought up pissed me off, because more people are bothered about him being transphobic than they are him being sexist. I’m pretty sure all my following comments made that angle pretty clear as well, as you have noticed us all “screeching misogyny”.
Yeah women are able to do drag, but NOT ON DRAG RACE, you absolute breeze block!!!!
Oh my god whatever. I tried to point out the exception to the rule before you inevitably did it - like >>232247
- but even that has gone straight past you.
Sorry for shitting up the thread, other anons. I’ll hide it for a while so I’m not tempted to argue with Blockhead anon anymore.
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I think drag isn't misogynistic. Drag queens are caricaturist versions of extreme femininity, almost all of their acts are stand-up or include comedy. A lot of them have stereotypical attitudes when in character, which mocks men more than women. Like an anon above stated, it's a mockery of hyper feminine properties. It deconstructs the notion that you are a true woman IF you have these traits. It also signals that a lot of attributes we assign to women are just that, people assume that because you are a woman you must have those attributes. Ya know, reminding us that anyone can have those attributes.
It proves that anyone can have an attitude and can look hyper feminine, but it doesn't mean they are female. Most drag performers, such as RuPaul and Divine, have always stated in their interviews that they are not women nor do they want to be. They also acknowledge that drag is not a mockery of female gender, but rather a twist on that back in the day all female parts were played by men. Drag is a form of performance art. If the performance was not intended to be offensive or cause harm, you can't argue that it has the purpose of causing harm.
Drag queens are not even remotely like troons, drag queens go out of their way to put in effort and work on their character. Drag queens embrace women and are not trying to outwoman women, unlike troons. Drag queens also have a lot more variety, you can see obese drag queens who look amazing. Troons often have the speciul perk of
>i put on my mums dress and shaved my legs a month ago, suck my dick you silly lesbians
I still think it funny as fuck that fucking Divine looks more female than Gigi Gorgeous, albeit Divine looks like a trailer park prostitute (as intended).
you guys don't get it.
drag isn't offensive or misogynistic because it makes fun of femininity, it's because it's hurtful in the same way blackface is. it parodies something women are forced into from a pure comedy prospective in a way that's designed to benefit men. but once the show is over they can take it off and they don't have to assume that role, they don't have to feel trapped like we do. that's why black face offends people, because of the privilege involved. the privilege to be someone else in a clean and disinfected way rather than having to deal with the socialization, pressure and hatred that comes from it.
there's no critical thinking to be had from drag, no gender roles broken, just men trying to look like the ridiculous version of women that men think of, nothing more. however, it does nothing to serve them other than make a few men uncomfortable with their masculinity, but it doesn't challenge masculinity, it challenges femininity. yes, many gay men do drag, and yes many gay men are feminine, but they should be challenging their own stereotypes. it's never men making fun of meathead guys, dressing in muscle suits to be critical of their testosterone fueled peers. it's them taking an easy pass at s group that's already easy to shit on. it's shit like movies where men portray racist stereotypes of black women. are tyler perry's madea movies meant to mock men? no. even regular drag, it's like an in joke with the drag queens, with their audience just laughing because of how ridiculous it is, nothing more, because there's no more to it.
No, that's being a transvestite, drag by definition is outrageous and over the top, the end goals isn't to pass as a woman. Drag is also heavily tied to theater and stage performance, no one really gets in drag just to walk around.>>232422
A lot of them are not comedy queen but fashion or beauty queen, it's not necessarily about being funny it can be about being "fabulous", beautiful, fashionable, bigger than life, etc…
If a man can get dressed as a woman and do it perfectly it goes to show that even when women do it it's just a costume, in the end anyone can perform extreme femininity, because it's not really tied to womanhood.
but extreme femininity is tied to womanhood. did you miss out on being a woman? on the term dyke or tomboy. on being made fun of by men and other women for not having big enough breasts or hips? for not doing makeup properly? did you miss out on people telling you to wear skirts once in a while or telling you that you dressed like a dude? people telling you to have girly hobbies? femininity is
tied to womanhood, the entire notion of being a girl, being a woman is just society using femininity to define being female, and that is a problem.
I think what bothers me most about drag is using female pronouns and names for a man just because he's dolled up.
That's not being gender critical, that's reinforcing the notion that a feminine presentation is equal to being female. It's reinforcement of femininity for females but a break in gender roles for males. It only benefits men. If they used a male stage name and pronouns it wouldn't be bad, but no, they won't do that. They need
to perform as a female in the most stereotypical way they can.
It's offensive like black face is, but not for the reasons >>232422
said - it's offensive like original black and yellow face were. It's dressing up as an oppressed group and acting out stereotypes (competing with other girls, calling them bitches, being petty etc).
Know the yellow face guy from Breakfast at Tiffany's? That's drag.
Do you know what a drag queen is?>>232427
Yeah and I'm saying drag is challenging the idea that femininity is tied to womanhood… they're men after all. The fact that some of us have been bullied for being a tomboy has literally nothing to do with it.
why do men
get to challenge femininity?
You’re getting the order wrong.
Male demands of femninity > women > Male performance of femininity in drag. Men are getting literal surgery to look like women… >>232422>>232427>>232430>>232432
Thank god, critical thinking anon(s).
Yeah, you know, I don’t know about that. There is a real fucking problem with gender in the US, but I’m not sure what the real root causes are. Everything since the seventies has been progressively better, not worse, so I don’t see why we’re going in reverse. I mean, even in the fifties they had women roller derby teams and shit. Sometimes it almost feels like the tumblrites are making us go backwards with their shitty rhetoric, not because things are all that bad, comparatively. Why do they all want to be sexworkers and camgirls? Porn is not great for society.
I mean even with there being boatloads of porn, if you know your history, objectively, things were way worse in the fifties for women than they are now. Yet we seem to have regressed completely back to pre WW2 roles, before women entered the workforce for the first time. Shitty victimization ideologies amplify that. I don’t like the idea that women are not strong or that we can’t speak up.
This isn’t meant to be infighting, more like stoned thoughts. I think trannies want women to infight more than anything else so they can keep slipping in their retarded bullshit. idk lol, sorry about this, I’m pretty high.
Drag queens don’t pose an imminent threat to women. They’re not the ones pushing their ‘right’ to have control over women’s spaces and access to women’s bodies.
Trannies do, and they are pushing for and getting the legislation to do it. That’s the difference for me. I don’t hate men. I hate trannies. This is why I feel like women need to get on the same page, somehow, even if only momentarily, and then we can go back to being man haters or whatever.
Also, if you think there are women out there in government somehow doing us a favor by allowing this legislation to go through, and they most definitely are, then I don’t know what to say? Both men and women are guilty of pushing this shit through.
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>>232422>DRAG IS WOMANFACE>it parodies something women are forced into
No one forces anyone into performing stereotypes, its a choice fake people make>because of the privilege involved
actually using the same language used to legitimise trans agenda>there's no critical thinking to be had from drag
and evidently no critical thinking to be had from you> it's never men making fun of meathead guys, dressing in muscle suits to be critical of their testosterone fueled peers
pic related>>232430>I think what bothers me most about drag is using female pronouns
your priority is being offended by a use of language how pathetic>WOMANFACE>>232432>why do men get to challenge femininity?
WHY do women get to challenge masculinity? What an utterly retarded contribution.
>>232481>WHY do women get to challenge masculinity?
because women get shat on.
also your picture just shows again, making fun of women.
>>232496>>making it possible for children to be forced onto hormones for not playing witht the right toys
not sure which laws you are referring too there.>being elected as officials for women's issues
What like 2 of them or something?
There are like 20 states that have anything related to trans in the law books and nothing federally or if there is trump and crew would be happy to overturn it.
So yeah trans barely exist high estimates put their population at like half a percent of the general population. But yeah go ahead get in bed with the side that thinks women are to blame for getting raped because they were "wearing the wrong thing" and the poor man just couldn't help himself.
Yes, I would. Sorry you feel beholden to binary thinki—oh, wait. I get it now!
Wanna share this new eyeshadow with me? I’ll do your nails and then we can go giggle and primp like the real girls do!
Lol, trucums are fucking hilarious. so, if you're really not a transbian, are you
A. a handmaiden
B. a handmAiden
or C. a #notliketheothertroons tard?
You’re actually retarded.>>232480
Agreed that drag queens are not the real issue.(infighting)
It’s a gender critical thread for disco about the ways in which trannies constantly attempt to take over women’s spaces.
Sort of like what you’re doing, dude.
NAYRT>a choice fake people make
If you don’t believe in socialisation or gender then why are you even here? All of this is totally irrelevant to you so fuck off and let people who want to discuss it do so.
>legitimise the trans agenda
Says the person who accused me of “language policing” when I said “girls/ladies are women not men dressed in drag”
Women aren’t challenging masculinity, theyre challenging men. Stop fingering yourself over men in padding for 5 minutes and actually read, because you’re not even contributing a counter argument to this.
Anonymous now No. 232559>>232484
Where men can now claim misogyny too! Fantastic! Women can’t even get their own oppression now, they have to share that with men in skirts also!
I swear to god, I was the most liberal person I knew 10 years ago. Now I’m starting to see the allure of rigid gender roles and traditional family structures, which logically I know is a joke. Fuck. /blog>>232480
Remember that pyramid that went round the Internet showing rape culture? Started off with shit like “boys will be boys!” and ended with gang rape? I don’t believe one automatically follows the other, but I can see why a gay effeminate guy doing drag would see all the encouragement trans people are getting and think “well I look prettier as a girl anyway, why not?”. Drag definitely can be a gateway to trans IMO, especially as it shares a lot of the same characteristics.
do not listen to >>232606
i don't think that drag belongs here either. for most of the reasons >>232601
said. i also feel like, regardless of the intent, it de-legitimizes trans rhetoric by making the stereotypical traits that trans people cling to a costume.
Hmm but the tricky thing is that is kinda whats discussed in these threads, trans being questioned as legitimate.
All I know is that many trans people see drag as being a personal attack on them although a lot of drag performers would disgree. A good example of this was our CBB this year where India stated having a "drag-phobia" which many viewers said was BS-and was just triggered
courtney "passed" better.
saging just in case.
It is so relevant, no one here is discussing the shallow specifics of the scene which would obviously belong in the other thread. It's being discussed here as a concept in relation to gender theory, and as anon said here >>232608 >it de-legitimizes trans rhetoric
so it's seriously important, despite the anons here wilfully ignoring this for the sake of being offended by womanface.
On top of that, how the mainstream spokespeople of drag react to the growing trans movement affects the discussion about it in the wider world. At the moment they are all chiming in support, which is incredibly ironic.
There were moves here in the uk last year to get drag banned as "hate speech" towards transwomen. The movement didnt get enough traction but I wonder if this sort of thing can be discussed in this thread as its related?
Wow. So women who want to have the support of some opposing voices in re; the trannies infesting their campuses can fuck on off, but the dudes get the right to their own segregated space?
Where are we supposed to go?
If I could go back in time knowing what I know now about trannies, I’d never, ever have given them an inch. I felt actual sympathy for these pathological shits. Now it’s loathing.
Criticising the gender roles displayed in drag should be in this thread. Anything else related should be in the drag thread. >>232608
If anything is causing infighting it’s the anon(s) in this thread who keep mini-modding and telling people to leave and/or stop talking. If you can’t handle a relevant debate that doesn’t fall in line with your personal views then seriously why are you here? Don’t join in if you don’t want to talk about it and then the topic will die, problem solved. >>232639>>232632
Agree with these comments. >>232643
I know this seems to be a real hard concept to fucking grasp, but not all of us agree that drag is just a bunch of “theatre dudes”. That’s the point of the discussion. Jfc
Okay, but it’s pretty obvi to that you’re forum sliding, anon. The initial posters who were talking about trans in the wrong places were forced into one thread. This one. Let me just restate. The posters who want to talk ~~about ~~trannies pissing them off got kicked out of every other thread and given this one. To discuss trannies. Because that link up there, to the TERF thread? That thread got locked.
So, again. Is it okay with you that we have one thread on an entire site to talk about men who think they’ll be able to give birth in a few years or who think their pig in wig nonsense equals girl? Or did you come over to make sure that we don’t have a place to do it again?
Hopefully this doesn’t gain me an infighting or derail ban, right anon?
And maybe those who think drag isn’t as much a problem as actual male to trans inflicting violence on women just don’t care about the urgency of having that discussion, which is going to make it ripe for infighting. Surely you’ll admit that point, anon?
It’s interesting that the post about TERFs got ignored already in favor of…arguing about drag.
I mean, infighting happens on pt when we’re talking about why and how Margo is an abusive parent. It’s already clear that this is going to be a persistent issue.
This is not limited to the US. Gender self-identity legislation and legislation conflating gender and sex is being ratified throughout the western world. In many of these same countries, informed consent is replacing gatekeeping for transgender medical treatments; gender dysphoria is no longer a requirement.
Appointed and elected officials along with esteemed medical professionals and academics are no longer free to voice their opinions regarding these changes without fear of censure or even losing their jobs.
The thread is clearly infested, it’s pretty funny. Trannies don’t understand the concept of staying away from places where they aren’t welcome.
Is it Angelica or Demonica? Or is it plain old Chris?
Please quote it. All I see is that there was a TERF thread. That thread is locked.
OP doesn’t say ‘we don’t use the word TERF here because x.’
Why should any of us care what a tranny calls us? I’ve already been called every filthy name in the book by angry men, what’s one more going to do?
You’re still trying to slide, but go for it, I’m sure we’ll see the results of your handiwork by the time GC #3 pops up and it’s a sausage fest.
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UKfag - I know The Tab is student news, just made me laugh to see that UoB biggest democratic event means nothing to most of its students. Even with the handmaidens, trans and it’s supporters are still such a minority. Without HM they are almost nothing. I wish there was a way to get through to these women and ask them why they hate themselves so much. >>232669
I don’t understand what’s stopping you from talking about trannies pissing you off. This is the Gender Critical thread, meaning any critical discussion of gender. If we started discussing the gender critical aspect of drag in the drag thread, we’d likely be warned to take it to the correct thread.
The article that began the discussion was indeed related to transgenderism and the OP (me) is a dedicated TERF pissed off at the response of trannies and handmaidens who all felt sad for trannies being excluded from getting rich and famous for performing femininity but not for themselves. >>232679
That’s completely fair, but then radTERF anons might have to share the thread, and that seems to be what’s causing the infighting. >>232682
Please see my above comment. You can discuss drag, MTT violence against women, both or even neither. Maybe the TERF comment wasn’t responded to because people are interested in an actual debate on a gender critical subject, rather than just being horrified at trannies like usual. >>232703
The anon you’re replying to here isn’t me, so if we are “sliding” (I don’t even know what that means tbh) there’s more than one anon doing so.>>232704
??? There’s been plenty of comments about taking this discussion to the drag thread. Pic related
I’m one of the anons you replied to, BUT
You don’t sound all that gender critical to me. You sound like you’re softpedaling. If you’re in the UK you know you have major, not minor, problems with children getting transed and lesbian girls being erased. You have an increased rate of puberty blocker therapy going on, and you have lawmakers and doctors jumping on board. Why are you minimizing that?
You keep snidely reminding us that the honest debate is how you want to steer the conversation, and that’s apparently not the abuse that women suffer at the hands of MTT. You make it sound like women who are sickened by children being worked over by money hungry endocrinologists are all nitpicking over the wrong things. You sound mansplainy. And I don’t believe you’re the OP.
Have your thread. There are other places to read gender crit online, I’ll go to them. At gendertrender and 4th wave there’s no problem with women who have anger about this and express it. The women who run those sites make sure that what’s taking place in this thread doesn’t happen there.
Have fun. I’d suggest that if any other anons want to discuss certain things in particular that aren’t um, whatever this is turning into they might not want to do it on an anon board. Too easy for dudes LARPing to call the shots.
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I'm ashamed this is my home town. I mean they let all sorts of controversial people talk but someone who questions gender? Oh no no thats too much.
Funny thing is shes respectful of transpeople, would even used preferred pronouns, but nope. Please tell me again how transpeople are the most oppressed when they manage to shut down speakers.
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National Geographic celebrates International Womens Day on Instagram by posting trannies. Nice to know what they think of us.
And naturally, I've already seen a guy on Twitter saying "This means men are better at everything, including being women".
So your argument is that no one should be allowed to discuss any other gender critical subjects because the worst is happening? What the fuck? That’s like saying no one can discuss petty crime because wars are happening. My point was is there’s not actually much DEBATE to be had in lesbians being shut down and kids being put on hormones, it’s pretty fucking clear that that is awful and should be stopped. Recognising smaller parts of the larger issue doesn’t minimise it???
I am the OP - whether you believe it or not - and I’m fucking baffled at why you’re so angry at being told that there are anons ITT who believe this is a relevant gender critical issue and that it does link to trans dominance in the female sphere. Again, I’m not stopping anyone from discussing MTT violence or anything; I don’t know how many times I’m going to have to say that before you calm down enough to understand that I think attitudes embodied in drag are supportive of trans acceptance, which then leads to acceptance of trans damage to society. What about that detracts from MTT violence or transing kids exactly? If a building has no foundation it can’t stand up, and IMO things like drag are part of the trans foundation. You clearly disagree, that’s fine, so don’t join in the conversation.
Seriously I’m not sad about you going somewhere else. Come here for a discussion and get reeed at people who don’t seem to understand cause and effect. Obviously disagreeing with you means I’m a guy, good detective work anon.
Are they fucking serious? WOMEN around the globe are still suffering, fuck men in dresses. Jfc>>232723
On a further note to this (samefag) I saw a Jimmy Kimmel sketch this morning called “Ew!” which just seems to be men dressed up as women and taking the piss out of them while the audience laughs? Is this just performance as well, or am I allowed to call that sexism? Has anyone got any examples of women dressing up as men on a national chat show and taking the piss?
This, but natgeo has been a shitshow for ages.
I agree, it is fucked up, and I also agree that Nat Geo has been a shitshow for ages. I like the whole "transwomen face violence, are denied employment, housing, and healthcare" crap. Wow, you mean, just like real women? At least transwomen don't have to worry about being married off at 12 to some old pervert, or being aborted because the doctor told the parents the sex of their child.
Anyway, here's the link to the post if you wanna see it. I'm glad to see people in the comments pushing back against this shit. https://www.instagram.com/p/BgClfdhD4VO/
TERF is not included in the title of the thread because gender critical and radical feminists do not self-identify as TERFs.
I am the OP.
Okay, I just watched this guy’s videos and he is fucked. Wow. What is THAT VOICE? It’s so phony kekeke>>232723
You’re pretty much the poster child for why lots of people always keep their mouths shut, p. divisive yourself anon
I disclosed that I am the OP because the subject of the discussion beginning with >>232679
is the OP.
The TERF thread was started as a neutral discussion of TERF, but the OP included a definition of TERF written by a transactivist. The thread evolved to be a space for gender critical discourse and backlash against the term TERF.
Why should the name of the thread include a term rejected by the majority of the anons in the thread?
Before I posted this thread I asked for input regarding the content of the OP. I endeavored to write the OP in as simple and diplomatic terms as possible.
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His logical fallacies are laughable and astounding and provide succinct examples of the mental gymnastics employed by transactivists.
A few choice quotes:
>Feminism: the advocacy of women’s rights based on the equality of the sexes. A simple enough concept, right? Wrong! This is 2018 and if the past two years have taught us anything, it’s that nothing is simple any more – especially when it comes to matters of equality and identity.
Matters of equality and identity have never been simple (and to describe them as such is patronizing), but they certainly have been made more complicated be transactivists.
>As a society, our understanding of the language we use to describe aspects of gender, sex and sexuality is evolving. We’re beginning to understand that identity isn’t always black and white, it’s more like a sliding scale in which all can self-identify. What makes a woman ‘a woman’ has no definitive answer, nor does it need one.
Evolving language does not mean redefining words which are some of the oldest in human language used to describe concrete realities.
His entire argument is predicated on redefining words to mean what he wants them to mean in order to support his argument.
>A woman is more than a vagina, than her ability to bear children, the gender she was assigned at birth, a socio-economic class, marital status or sexual history – yet every one of these points has been used to define and control a woman’s place in society. This is why feminism must serve as an inclusive tool of liberation for all female identities and experiences, not just some. This is where so many women are still getting it wrong.
Key word being female
which does not mean male
>Almost immediately, I was shut down with a tidal wave of rebuttal, largely from cisgender women who seemed to believe that it was my desire to ‘co-opt the female experience’. Some said transgender issues are a ‘special case’ that not ‘all women’ should be expected to relate to.
By identifying women as cis- and trans- he is identifying them as having different sexes which is contrary to the premise of his argument that sex is "a sliding scale in which all can self-identify."
>I stressed that you don’t need to be able to relate to somebody to exercise a sense of empathy. Injustice is injustice and trans women have a place under the umbrella of ‘all women’.
Empathy requires that you be able to relate to somebody. Empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
How does having empathy for transwomen validate transwomen as women?
>Trans women can’t continue to be an afterthought, especially when statistically we are the most at risk when it comes to issues of mental health, sexual assault, unemployment and homelessness. Our experiences must be approached with the same urgency in which we address the issues affecting cisgender women.
Once again, differentiating ciswomen and transwomen.
>In the same vein, we need to see more women who identify as straight standing up for lesbians. More Christian women standing with Muslim women. More able- bodied women standing with disabled women. For feminism to be an empowering sisterhood that all women benefit from, we must stop prioritising the experiences of only certain kinds of women and stand up for women who are different to ourselves.
What do all of those examples of groups of women have in common in both de facto and self-identified contexts? Their biological sex.
>But in among the banners, a well-intentioned yet misguided symbol of women’s equality was worn by protestors – the pink pussy hat.
The pussy hat was conceived as a direct response to Trump's objectification and harassment of women in his comment about "grabbing pussy." The pink color was chosen to satirize its gender stereotype. Thus the pink pussy hat was a metaphor and not a literal symbol.
>We must learn to see all women’s experiences as worthy of being listened to within feminist discourse. Because the fact is not all women possess a functioning reproductive system, not all women have a vagina, not all women’s vaginas are pink. So, when ‘pink pussies’ are used as imagery intended to unify all women, what they are actually doing is excluding a large amount of women from feeling like they have a voice within feminism.
And suddenly the delineation between cis- and trans- is abandoned in order to equate a transwoman's lack of a vagina to that of a ciswoman.
Does that mean that no debate is allowed? Tbh when I posted the article I honestly felt it was a relevant contribution to gender critique. I’m surprised it ended up dividing anons like this. >>232750
This is a very good point. >>232754
This bitch seriously needs to fuck off.
MUNROE IS SO GREAT
She places herself above everyone the whole time like>let me educate you with my buzzfeed tier intellect>your movements misguided because I've discovered something I can be offended about that you haven't >WE NEED TO STAND TOGETHER IN SOLIDARITY TO MAKE SURE MY FEIGNED CAREER AS AN 'ACTIVIST/MODEL' CONTINUES
Article by her in the independent:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/international-womens-day-2018-no-woman-left-behind-dream-munroe-bergdorf-intersectionality-a8244231.html
>huge image of her because it's totally not all about her
It's called irony
, they don't demand to be referred to by specific pronouns for the sake of their mental health and well being.
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Speaking of the grooming discussed on 4th Wave Now and Transgender Trend [pic related].>>232774
And this is who Labour considers to be a well-spoken asset to their party.
Of course, they count Lily Madigan amongst their ranks, and he makes jaw-droppingly misogynistic statements weekly.
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He supports children and teens transitioning, yet he refuses to engage in public discussion or debate.https://archive.fo/H9eB4
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How much is FFS and how much is Photoshop?https://archive.fo/EP76D
check them peepers
Even Blaire White still looks male after his FFS when you see him from the wrong angles. I assume Theryn Meyer would as well. They’re always uncanny valley to me.
There’s a video of this Bergdorf person upthread, and of course they don’t pass at all. The still image is massively important to trannies, the second they move out of that precise angle, the illusion is broken. So I’d say it’s tons of shop, even if only because of the billions of apps that make it incredibly easy.
Looking at the size of their fists is always, always a dead giveaway.
I asked for opinions and input twice in the last thread.>>>/ot/230899>>>/ot/231833>>232806
The convention for titles of threads throughout the site is to identify the topic of the thread. The topic of the thread is gender critical discussion. The term TERF is a derogatory synonym for gender critical and radical feminism. To use TERF would be to validate the transactivism we reject.
I identified myself as the OP in >>232751
only to explain to >>232746
how I know the intent of the OP when I posted >>232743
. I did not do so for kudos.
To better clarify >>232743
, I greentexted the passages from the OP at the request of >>232703
. The sentence "The majority of gender critical and radical feminists do not self-identify as TERFs" was intended as an explicit tl;dr explanation of why the term TERF was not included in the title. It was not a refutation of the OP, but this was not clear because of my use of greentext.
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The term TERF and the portrayal of gender critical and radical feminists as abusive are being normalised by media out of their ignorance.
This is why the term TERF should be used unambiguously and not in a way that could be construed as self-referential.
We must not allow transactivists to control the narrative.A radical feminist group in Labour is threatening to leave, after the party announced it would be backing trans people standing on women-only shortlists. The policy looks set to ignite larger divisions over gender recognition.The UK Labour Party has been papering over an internal rupture over whether or not transgender people can stand for selection. There are no candidates at present, but a group of radical feminists – so-called Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs) – want the policy scrapped before it happens.The group’s demands received a blow today. The equality subcommittee of Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee is planning to officially back a statement to rebuffed their demands.The NEC is going further, reports say, and is likely to insist the party stamps out “transphobia and the abuse of members based on their trans identity will not be tolerated in the Labour Party.” A copy of the statement, leaked ahead of the meeting to HuffPost, said “the Labour Party continues to have an inclusive definition of women,” and explicitly affirms that “All Women Shortlists and women’s reserved places are open to self-defining women.”
The article posted in >>232652
is another example of the media regurgitating the transactivist narrative out of apparent ignorance.
This article in The Telegraph about the same event thankfully takes the time to identify TERF as the derogatory manipulation that it is.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/03/01/bristol-university-students-seek-ban-terf-speakers-question/
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Not exactly a profound discussion starter, I just thought this meme was hilarious.
The predominant definition and portrayal of TERF in mainstream media are dictated by transactivists. In the eyes of the public who have been fed transactivist rhetoric, self-identifying as a TERF is identifying as an oppressive and violent feminist.
Here is a thoughtful opinion piece discussing the use of the term TERF and its obfuscation of the intent to bully and be "the progressive way of telling women to shut up."https://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2017/nov/19/bullies-everywhere-take-delight-in-coming-up-with-new-insults
The anon in >>231989
asked, "Where are the GC politicians taking a stand for women?"
They are being silenced and ousted from their positions after being labelled TERFs.
Can you fucking stop already? No one's using it to silence women here, go be offended by it somewhere else. This is like a black person sperging about other black ppl calling eachother "niggas."
Like everyone knows the whole term is a joke, there is no feminism that includes non-female troons. A lot of gc people still use it ironically.
k e k inb4 they give it a dick.
I wonder if they'll give him the trademark trans gal man shoulders, giant hands, giant feet, lack of hips/ass, horse face, receding hairline, greasy, poorly dyed hair, rainbow stockings, autogynesmile, etc. too, to make it realistic.
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exactly anon check this monstrosity lolhttps://www.tonnerdoll.com/tonner/jazz-jennings
‘In Stock’, I’m sure. The head size is Onision tier.
I feel like whoever designed that is a TERF and made the doll intentionally hideous. I never heard of this person but they look more feminine than the dollProfession: Activist
Nah, calling him a bitch is just relegating him to the level he deserves. I wouldn’t call a fellow woman a bitch.
Of course not, haven’t you heard? You don’t need a vagina to be a woman anon! /s
The guy who made it is a gay dude, but yeah, I have a sneaking suspicion that he wants the T out of the LGB.
That packaging is crazy. I love how the photo on the box in no way resembles the head sculpt of the doll. This doll maker, for a western artist, has, in the past, put a lot more effort into getting the head sculpts and faceups right. So it’s funny to see that almost everything that could look wrong on this thing looks…wrong. Just look at the eye shapes. And I love how huge the doll’s jaw is. Jazz has masculine features, but his jaw is not THAT freaking massive kekkek
Also Jazz has huge manboobs, but this thing is flat as a board. It’s just hilarious.
The best part about that doll is that if anyone complains about anything regarding its male appearance, we can call them transphobic. >b-but jazz looks a lot more feminine than that!
Well, this isn't just about Jazz. A lot of transwomen look similar to that! You can't say that not passing is a bad thing, that's, like, totally transphobic!!!
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Dad's smile and optimism: gone
Isn't Jazz a weird story to begin with? All they did as a child was try on female clothes and at that first instance the girls in his life "knew" put him on hormone blockers and raised Jazz female ever since? Not really giving them a chance to decide on their own? Cuz when I was smaller I used to cross-dress for kicks and giggles.
Not saying Jazz is confused now. I'm sure they are fully convinced (that or there is no going back) I just wonder how they would have turned out if their family just kinda stepped back. Would he be a cis gay/bi male? Would they still be trans?
yep, jazz's mom either
A) wanted a daughter
B) wanted to milk something from jazz for profit, she clinged onto to the first thing she could find, it's the mental equivalent to those moms who get their kids sick for empathy and profit
C) is batshit crazy and delusional, and wanted to be progressive so she brainwashed her son into being a larper
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I made a crack about MRAs on Twitter and this…. creature responded to my tweet, defending MRAs, and saying "some of the most well respected women are MRAs".
An autistic tranny "lesbian" MRA. Of course. I couldn't have memed up a more cliche person.
>>233027>I'm sure they are fully convinced (that or there is no going back)
Pretty sure we'll have a huge "regret" thing happening in ten years or so when the media hype dies dowwn. There are already plenty of detransitioning videos on Youtube.
Trans have always been around, but not at the statistical levels of now, and that's basically gay teens being forced into/encouraged into it. So yeah watch out how things will change in future
Yet she has another daughter who is barely mentioned, apparently. The mother just wants money, in my opinion, and now Jazz's too deep in this shit and of he has regrets, he can't really come back.>>233042
Wasn't this fucker already posted here before? Jesus, he looks hideous.
In depth article about drag king performance including its history and interviews. A few kings noted being treated as subservient by the queens they have performed with.
Absent is discussion of the king's specific feminist views. From the second quote below, can we extrapolate that the older kings described are more in line with radical feminist views?And a disinterest in drag kings often comes down to pure sexism. “Lesbian identities have always been sidelined…we’ve always slid under the radar,” Julia Applegate says. “I don’t think people are as interested in what women do, period. I don’t think we’re as interesting to people because we’re not as valued.”But the spectrum of drag king performance is remarkably vast, and sometimes kings’ conceptions of masculinity exist in direct conflict with one another. Older kings often seek to perform and critique the sleazier, more aggressive aspects of masculinity, but younger kings speak of wanting to present something softer and sensitive to the audience, performances that push back on stereotypes of what LGBTQ and feminist audiences think of when they think of (typically toxic) masculinity.https://jezebel.com/as-drag-becomes-more-popular-than-ever-drag-kings-refu-1823500621
Thanks. What a hideous disaster of a human being. Jesus, the way he's standing in those pics, he doesn't even try to stand like a woman.>>233054
These freaks claim they are women, yet all they do is shit on women. If that isn't proof this is a mental illness and a fetish, I don't know what is.
There is no such thing as cross-dressing. Clothes are clothes. This is the sort of gendershit that makes screeching “I MUST be trans because SKIRTS” possible in the first place. Arguably the only clothes meant for women are bras, because who in their right mind would wear something so uncomfortable for no reason lmao. >>233049
This is interesting, thank you anon.
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I think this guy might deserve a thread or something, this is some of the most hilarious shit I've seen on here in a while
I wish I could see the expressions of the people around him when he took pic related. You have to have some really high level autism to be able to leave the house looking like that unironically.
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here's a few more, his whole IG is golden
File: 1520662708622.png (3.09 MB, 1417x1924, 1.png)
looks like he's an ebegger too
"Womanhood should be defined biologically"
So much twisted logic.>>233067
He is genuinely autistic. He has posted several videos of his meltdowns.>>233080
He had surgery in December and had been on hormones for only a few years prior.
I think it's all of this to be honest. His mother seems to be a munchie extraordinaire and uncomfortable with the idea of her son being gay. After all his parents are the ones who pushed him to public and wanted to make him a celebrity, and his mother is the one talking about his upcoming sex life and sex organs. I can't believe how the CPS aren't all over this family. >>232720
This fucking broke me.
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aha glad to see my post here-I happened on his twitter when i was looking up who the "honey badgers" (renamed by most as the money badgers) were, and man are they a shit show. Unsurprising uncle fester here is also an avid fan of a lolcow here-wig0nhead.
That is not Jen. That user goes by Emily.
Jen's old tumblr (he also used this handle for other now defunct accounts but abandoned it when he stopped identifying as a feminist)http://transexfeministautism.tumblr.com/
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>>233054>"We shouldn't be immune to harsh criticism just because we have a cunt between our legs">"This lesbian wants to have nothing to do with your pussy">"Vagisil wipes"
Plus all those cursed images. This guy scares me. Just look at that face, he's straight out a Junji Ito comic and looks like a serial killer.
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I don't think junji's troons are this scary, and at least they aren't real.
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here's one more, sorry the format of these pics is so weird: I had to make them on my phone.
really is no surprise he likes wig0nhead though. he's the epitome
of the type of people she panders to.
>>233062>There is no such thing as cross-dressing
anon, there is though. currently in modern times it could be argued only skirts and bras are for women, but even so, historically it was illegal for men or women to wear eachother's clothing outside of certain situations. whats more, men still run the risk of violence from gross men plagued with toxic masculinity. not saying any of that is our problem, it's just ignorant to think otherwise.
also, clothing meant for women will never ever look good on 99% of men. women have varied body types/shapes, but even our gross new friend here >>233121
looks arguably better in non-feminine clothing. cross dressing isn't gross or anything (though it often looks terrible) and i for one welcome a further release from gendered clothing. but it does exist.
we had a bjd thread on /ot/ but i have no idea where it is.>>233126
obviously this guy is cringe>implying you can be satanist and atheist
but satanism is just a different interpretation of the bible (that god is a dick and therefore must be the evil one) and isn't just some edgy-desu garbage.
I see trans as the male equivalent of, well, of a lot of things, haha, but I also see them as the two thousand teens version of the SRA and recovered memory craze of the nineties. There was a lot of dubious psychotherapy being practiced and a lot of women were seeing therapists who got them to recover repressed memories about worshipping Satan, eating sacrificed babies, being breeders for cults, etc. A lot of families were destroyed and it was widespread. I had a cousin with a shrink like this and we were in a small town. The fervor about it took a while to calm down, and by then the damage was done. Women who trusted therapists came away from them more damaged than they’d ever been. Some parents ended up in jail for nothing more than recovered memories. Elizabeth Loftus has done some super interesting work with the whole recovered memory concept, it’s such junk science.
It’s almost the same thing with trans, the stories all sound like they come from some lame template (I always felt like a girl) (The man in the black robe put a stick up my bum) the only difference is that the damage being done is both emotional and physical, at the level of the individual. For society, I think transing kids is going to be way more damaging than anything we’ve yet seen, with the erasure of whole groups of children who would otherwise have been GNC and gay. If I were one of these kids I’m sure I’d end up raging at everyone by the time I was old enough to understand what had been done to me. Sterile, truly asexual teens and adults who will never have normal, healthy sex lives. It’s beyond sad.
I imagine Vagisil wipes would come in handy for that oozing wound between its legs. The sanpaku on that tranny, wew. That’s the face of a serial killer right there. Look for bodies in the basement. He wants our skin.
As a dyke I’m just saying, let me get some of that, yum. Is this thing for real?
Historically skirts, high heels, and makeup were things that men wore. So it’s just relevant to the society and the time, which is why I say there’s no such thing as cross-dressing. There is such a thing as “being taught to be a judgemental weirdo” though, which is obviously what you’re describing with toxic masculinity.
I do agree there’s certain stuff that doesn’t look good on certain figures, although I’d argue that those lines aren’t drawn by sex (unless it’s V-neck tops, those things need a cleavage). Difference of opinion, I guess!
A trans streamer on Twitch (24Cara) left his wife and moved in with a friend, and they have now convinced the friend that they too are trans.
I’m not sure what part of their divorced and mostly friendless life made them feel as though transitioning was the answer to their sad problems.
High light of the story: they did not know trannies existed until they met Cara and even then they only thought it was possible to transitition into a woman and not the other way around.
They need help, not a zombie penis. https://twitter.com/alrad345/status/972531562595192832?s=21
He is a member of The Satanic Temple which is an atheist political activist organisation.
TST does not worship a literal Satan. TST refers to itself as a religion in order to qualify for Constitutional protections which allows it to file lawsuits against oppressive Christian groups which seek to impose Christianity in violation of the Constitution.
For example, TST campaigns against restrictions on abortion on the grounds that such restrictions are contrary to one of the seven tenets of TST: One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/faqhttps://thesatanictemple.com
I discovered Jenn via his comments on an Instagram post by It's Black Friday via the altcow thread. I am a member of TST (purely on a political basis, without the need to wear pentagrams), so I clicked on his account. His Instagram and Twitter are not linked, but he popped up in a thread debating Magdalen.
At the opposite end of tumblr brand trangenderism are the truscum Harry Benjamin Syndrome transsexuals. HBS is based on the non-scientific science of sexed brains paired with oppositely sexed bodies in an attempt to attribute trans to a strictly biological cause.
>>233089>"Womanhood should be defined biologically"
I mean he's not wrong, but SRS and hormones doesn't make you a woman either. >>233090
It seems he doesn't try to look more passing because in his mind getting your dick chopped off and taking hormones is enough.
Only in a society without gender (sociological) would cross-dressing not exist.
>Historically skirts, high heels, and makeup were things that men wore.
In which case women wearing those styles would have been cross-dressing.
Historically around the world, most gendered clothing had/has its origins in functionality based on occupations and pursuits held by women versus men.
In the western world, women's clothing has been varyingly modest, objectifying, and restrictive in parallel to the rise of patrilineage, functioning to literally control women (regardless of women's apparent complicity). With the advent of feminism, women began rejecting such oppressive clothing, but clothing was still very much gendered. Women wearing men's clothing was only acceptable in mainstream society when women assumed the occupations of men during the second World War. Since then, women's clothing has expanded to include designs and styles of men's clothing but not vice versa.
Intentional movements by clothing designers to produce androgynous and purely unisex clothing began during the late 60s in parallel to the sexual revolution. But true unisex clothing movements have been limited in scope and longevity due more to the general anatomical differences between the sexes rather than sociological.
Since the 70s children's clothing has been increasingly gender-free (made easier because anatomical differences do not exist in prepubescent children), but the feminine/masculine stylistic dichotomy persists and resurged during the 90s. Was this resurgence due to the influence of choice feminism?
Criticisms of gendered clothing are made only in favor of girls. Clothing which implies that certain activities and occupations are only within the domain of boys is called-out, but boys are never encouraged to engage in activities associated with girls. Why is this? The simple answer is "because patriarchy", but it is often the critics of restrictive girl's clothing who are silent on restrictive boy's clothing.
Girl's and women's clothing (and personal care items) consistently costs more than identical boy's and men's clothing, a fact that is being called out more and more, aka the "pink tax."
Sage for clothing design and fashion history student geekery. Alas, my classes did not cover cross-dressing in the context of gender expression.
How is he wrong? What other possible reasoning could there be? Sure, some women don't have certain reproductive abilities and intersex people exist, but we can all use criticial thinking when it comes to individual cases like that.
I don't get why people think it's offensive or degrading to define sex in terms of biology, like it's 'reducing' you to your genitals. In context that makes perfect sense, it's a word with functional meaning and that meaning relates to our bodies. If someone reduces us to our bodies, that's their attitude rather than use of a technical term.
Men who transition beyond their early to mid 20s are very limited in the degree to which hormones will feminize their appearance.
On the other hand, the effects of testosterone on women who transition are not limited by the age of transition. The absence of estrogen and progesterone alone causes a reversal of female secondary sexual characteristics which results in a masculinizing effect.
I’m not being contrarian. I pointed out in my original comment that clothing being seen as gendered is what drives trans bullshit. I am allowed to refuse the concept that clothing has to irrevocably be gendered. Please feel free to disagree and move on.>>233161
This was genuinely interesting to read, thank you, but please see my above comment. It was not a statement on whst society’s gender constructs, but the clothes themselves. Hence my mentioning V-necks, and in my original comment bras, as those clothes are meant to accommodate differences in physicality due to biological sex.
Samefag but my phone messed up
* a comment on society’s gender constructs
He states that the minimum requirement to be considered a woman should be hormonal transition if genital surgery cannot be pursued, completely ignoring chromosomes. While he is dismissing transtrenders, he is still redefining "woman" to fit his situation.
Sex in human beings is defined by
- internal reproductive organs
- external reproductive organs
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TY for the response, I had sorta heard about them but they really only got my attention when one of them, i think allison, did a video with mister metokur and tried to come off as a ~innocent little girl~ (ironic, in context) and was on there to defend A PEDO and then ended the "argument" with a "thanks for the free advert jim!" like from the sounds of it they deserve their own thread but unfortunately i dont know enough about them to make one.
As to not get kicked out for being OT pic unrelated but related to thread. saged.
Anyone has any articles or material about body dismorphia in teenage girls and young women?
I experienced that a lot, it was bloody awlful, and it really pisses me off how the transactivists act like it's a trans only problem.
Any reading or audiovisual recommendation is very welcome.
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I'm sure you guys have seen this bullshit going around on Twitter. Racism is generational, but somehow sexism isn't.
The amount of women retweeting this and liking it and responding, throwing their own gender under the bus, is depressing.
>>233384>Gender is given at birth
Yes this is true>I was accidently assigned as male
No you wern't. The ironic thing is this person is pretty much admitting to their privilege that was given to them. The reason they are called transgender is because no matter what they do they will never actually feel the reality of gender, they are looking in from the outside.>Race is generational
I saw kat blaque also make this argument, it leaves out mixed race people. And I would like to make a note about identifying.
Mixed race people usually, but not always will identify with one side of their heritage depending on how they are treated and percieved(Halle Berry) these people have a right to identify because it is part of their lived experience.
Now, how the fuck do transwomen "identify" as women when not only is it not part of their lived experience which they admit but also is pretty much based on stereotypes? I'm actually thankful Dolezal came along, if nothing shes showing up the trans mental illness for what it really is.
IMO the Rachel Dolezals of the world are more legit than transgenders. 99% of racial identity is just because the person "looks" more like race A than anything else. Hence why people are surprised to learn Halsey or Rashida Jones are half black, than to learn the same about someone like Halle Berry.
Not to mention the scores of people who basically became white because they were white passing enough and wanted to escape racial oppression.
At least Dolezal was committed enough to pass as a mixed black/racially ambiguous person, which is more than the majority of transpeople can do.
Because they are groups that were socially isolated and/or punished who are now more widely accepted (where I live, anyway). >>233363
??? This is my first comment in days anon. I think you think I’m someone else ITT. >>233397
Race is generational, because it’s based in societal constructs rather than biological fact. Yes, you get Afro hair etc, but the idea of “being black” is created by experience. Which makes the argument against transgenderism even stronger, because being a woman is social AND biological. How is it then okay to be transgender but not transracial? The mental gymnastics are amazing. >>233401
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This. So many "progressives" sound like they're race realists. It's really strange to see that they seem to think that race is this clear-cut thing and in no way a social construct. But then they have the audacity to claim that biological sex isn't real at all or that women who have faced opression since the dawn of time don't know generational trauma. This is just thinly veiled misogyny with a side of race realism but people are eating it up.
>>233450>I could never accidentally inherit the generational trauma and socioeconomic oppression imposed on black people
lol someone should go tell this ugly tranny about Sandra Laing.
In case people don't know:
Sandra Laing was a white woman from multiple generations of white people who came out brown-looking enough to be reclassified as "colored" under the South African apartheid regime. She's shunned by white people, and eventually has to live in the colored section of town where conditions were absolute shit with no running water, etc. all because she didn't look white enough to the government.
The gender equivalent to this would be if doctors assigned an intersex person as male but they started showing more female sexual characteristics during puberty or something.
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Cant believe trannies are recommending this to kids like its dangerous for several reasons.
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They will not rest until they have taken everything for themselves.
Well trans women are way creepier and scarier than trans men usually
You know, like men are creepier and scarier than women
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Incredible. I thought I'd seen some fucked up weirdos but this guy is beyond almost anything I have seen.
>>233450>Gender is given at birth, but race is generational
That makes zero fucking sense. If a white person got lip fillers, plastic surgery and tanned their skin, wouldn't that be the exact same thing as these people trying to act like the opposite gender?
and it gets worse>I could never accidentally inherit the generational trauma and socioeconomic oppression imposed on black people
You mean like the kind women also have suffered of for centuries LONGER than black people and still do to this day?
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Here you go guys, have fun.
I dont even know where to start with this one.
wish black people and racism would stop being used as fodder by these people.
what's even the benefit to handmaiden this hard?
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Saw this on my timeline and almost started yelling. I'm not going to tolerate an adult man's disgusting sissy fetish, fuck off. These men want to have the "real female experience" without all the numerous negatives (ex. getting harassed from a young age) and it disgusts me.
………so she’s straight then. >>233556
BDSM isn’t a gender or sexuality, and liking sex with women would make her bisexual.
1. Used to describe a gender conforming bihet, het, or polyamorous individual who is trying to seem special, trying to identify into opression, or both.
2. "I'm ugly, but desperate for attention, so I'll take whatever I can get."
No shit, Anon. We're actually making fun of her, but thanks for the obviously needed clarification.
And she's probably as "bisexual" as June, meaning she's a het girl who's ok with having sex with women if it gives her male attention.
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As a teen I was dressing like this. But it doesn't fit their fantasy of being a ~hot teen girl~ and going to ~sexy slumber parties~ with their ~cutie teen girlfriends~.
"Cis queer sex worker". The best kind of handmaiden. In other words, a middle-class straight girl who cams for pocket money because she has the luxury of backing out of it when she wants. I'm not going to break this spergout down because it's full of stupid ass cliches we've seen and discussed a million times and most of them are too ignorant to even acknowledge, but I'm going simply apeshit about this one:
<"ACTIVELY SUPPORT LESBOPHOBIA BY CALLING LESBIANS BIGOTS FOR BEING LESBIAN">No one is doing that, literally no one is doing that. You're a BIGOT because you're transphobic. They even claim 'TERF is a slur' when it's purely descriptive for their position.
You didn't even fucking ADDRESS the point you garbage human being. You just started reeing about TERFs for whatever reasons and saying "nu-uh, nobody does that!" despite there being fucking Riley Dennis videos saying this shit. These people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to support their delusions and that's why they're dangerous.
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>>233525>MTFs don't appropriate womanhood
Oh yeah they do.>MTFs don't erase female experience
They do, when they try to shut down abortion rights discussions and period discussions because they feel "so excluded uwu">MTFs don't appropriate feminism
See the above, also see below>MTFs don't reinforce gender and patriarchy
So several of them don't act like shallow stereotypes of women? Several of them don't get aggressive and mean when a woman doesn't want to act like their stereotypes? The fact that many of them transition isn't tied to failing to live up to gender role expectations?>wehh weeehhh lesbophobia doesn't exist!
Yes it does. There's several instances of MTFs getting aggressive and accusing lesbians of transphobia for not wanting to fuck them. This is lesbophobia>weeeehhhh they don't have male privilege!
They've had it for a majority of their lives and it shapes them as individuals. This is why so many MTFs are violent and aggressive
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I think most trannys want to be little girls/teens. A lot of them express jealousy towards these girls. Their hope is to be a cute little girl but they're too delusional to accept that isn't possible. They want to be the submissive uguuuuu kawaii type school girls they see in porn. Being a woman is boring to them because they know we have responsibilities etc and being a teen just seems more fun.
And of course everyone who doesn't buy into this is uneducated because plastic surgery is ~amazing~ now.>>233627
With stuff like this I don't understand how trans activists can still claim that AGP and fetishists don't exist.
>>233729>All roles in which women are sexually objectified are furthermore to be filled by transwomen
I am ok with that. German playboy at least already had a tw
Well maybe >>233491
should have said black MEN instead of people.
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How can someone who wants to die when he hear women laugh not be in a mental hospital?
This read like the diary of a future serial killer tbh, especially the way he obsess over how the women behave, how they're treated and how everything that doesn't 100% cater to him is is a rejection of his "identity".
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The bathroom in an Australian university. So nice that the men got to keep their own bathroom.
Holy shit, what a collection of nutcases.
Also, peachyoghurt has an adorable accent.
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Like ~woke~ straight male allies aren't advocating for "trans rights" as long as it doesn't affect them.
yea but straight women advocate for them and it does
effect them. women are the only ones effected by this garbage.
how is that allowed?>>234215
how many people swarmed his mentions to call him a transphobe?I know it's probably none
From what I've seen they "convert" the female toilets to all-gender via a sign as per photo, meanwhile the men's is left unchanged. It was quite confusing the first time I saw it.
Actual support of transgender people would be to make a third toilet for them, rather than just appropriate the women's ones.
This is disgusting, why can't trans women like this have a tiny modicum of respect for the dignity of teenage girls.
saged cause its been said, but jesus christ.
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These people have no self-awareness.
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What are they complaining about?
Yeah I don't understand this. I'm sort of a newcomer to gender critical feminism but don't "Afab" and "trans woman" contradict one another? I've never heard someone use the term "trans woman" to describe a biological female.
Apologies if I'm missing something here.
Anyway those tweets sound ridiculous either way.
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Hem hem, pardon me, you terf cunt. I am a trans trans girl; I have the rainbow stockings, tragic dye job, bad taste in anime, npd, and gross kinks to prove it. Just wanted to let you know that post you made is literal violence and I'm calling the police.
You know, I'm one of those people that gets fucking annoyed when I see people talking about how people are "too old" to be goth/punk or wear shirts with nerdy shit on it or whatever. People should wear what they want.
What bothers me about this (besides the fact that a lot of transwomen are just men being creepy fetishists), is the "second puberty" bullshit combined with the fact that this ONLY addresses "cis" (god, how I hate that term) women. Nothing addressing men, of course. Because they feed off the attention of men. Unlike actual women, who would rather dress casually to avoid male attention, especially true for younger girls, troons love the attention it gives them.
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Fucking a tranny is smarter than fucking a girl cause you can nut in her all you want and she'll never get pregnant.
way to propagate the white race you incel traitor /s
but really also dyn plz that was basic
I went to a Jordan Peterson lecture and it was amazing. If he’s the guy we have speaking up for us (I still believe that he hates trenders, not all trans people) then I’m okay with that. He’s incredibly erudite and stubborn, and he doesn’t back down or feel overly challenged by retards. He’s not alt right so much as he is a classical conservative and right now I’ll take my allies where I can. His pushback on C16 made a lot of people feel they weren’t alone in the wilderness. I wonder what his peak trans moment was like?
But I agree, beta males really should start fucking eachother so they don't hurt women or procreate
>>233778>"They didn't invite me into the room"
If he's friends with the guys and not their wives/girlfriends, why would he be dragged into a room with a bunch of people he doesn't know? They obviously thought he'd be more comfortable sitting on the sofa with a bunch of friends.
This is a group of pre-established female friends. They're probably comfortable undressing in front of each other. They're probably not comfortable undressing in front of a strange man.
Sounds about right.
Up until his transition, he was a man. He probably partook in rolling his eyes at women with them when they first met.
>And not once did they include me in anything
Once again, they're not his friends. The men are. Why should they invite him to a bathroom he doesn't belong in?
Absolutely none of this strikes me as people trying to disrespect or invalidate him. It does read however, like a man being upset that women aren't constantly catering to HIS needs and all he cares about is "me me me". Everything they said was to insult ME
, everything they did was to bother ME
To add to this, my university installed mixed gender bathrooms in the Arts building. Every second female bathroom became one while the men's bathrooms were unchanged. Which is ridiculous because we already had disabled bathrooms installed that were a lone cubicle and could have been used by anyone.
So if there were 10 female bathrooms, there are now only 5. I find it infuriating as women can suffer from all kinds of things which require them to pee more often like pregnancy and UTIs. I even remember graffiti on the wall saying "I've been sitting here for hours. I hate cystitis." It's disgusting to think someone who needs the bathroom will now have to walk up a flight of stairs or to the other side of the building just to appease trannies. This could even make women late for class. Why weren't some of the men's bathrooms turned into roleplay rooms?
The story of this kid is chilling. It sounds to me like he wanted to stop the process, but as we all know you can’t just desist. So in order to save face with his mum and seeing no way out from the hell she pushed on him, he suicided.
He wasn’t even taking estrogen yet, was he? Depressing.
why do you greentext every single response? clearly you want to be recognized, so just use a name and a trip, you loser faggot. jesus.>>234495
why are you responding to bait?
this thread was great the first go round but you fuckwits are really shitting it up.
I've been trying for 10minutes and got nothing.
But tbf trannies will complain about anything and nothing, its just in their nature.
So….they believe women pretending to be trans are taking over trans spaces kind of like how men pretending to be women are taking over women's spaces? Interesting.
Maybe we should all just identify as trans women to annoy them.
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the caption this competition
Prize is 1 internets.
(Like, this leaves me speechless do not even know what to say here)
This really fucked me up inside>>234215
I seriously thought this was a parody account for a moment because it's hilarious. It truly exhibits what male allies and handmaidens are all about.>Wah wah wah Trans women are women it's transphobic to claim otherwise, down with terf scum>But as a straight male, would you be attracted to a transwoman? >hell no I only like REAL women
It's a form of "not in my backyard", they're fully on board with it until it requires them to do something else than making self-righteous tweets.
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Ok so just want to ask I wanted to start a thread to discuss jazz jennings life which wouldnt just be a gender discussion but the whole being thrust into fame and possible exploitation of such a young person but I do not want to get banned from the site as apparently you can only discuss topic related to gender here but I also do not want to sort of derail the thread so um, advice?
God, he's a fatass. Anyways, he might
warrant a thread of his own because there's just so much to unpack. As long as it's not exclusively about his gender, I think the only reason it should be locked is if people denied that his transness is anything but munchausens by proxy and derailed into OT arguing, or if they sperged about muh preferred pronouns and derailed into more OT arguing.
I still think it's stupid how the mods confined everything gender crit/radfem related to one damn thread.
I guess I should have made it clear by jazz jennings i was mainly thinking about the tv show and how fucked up it is and i agree-personally i actually feel bad for jazz, however i think jazz's parent are money grubbing fame whores which i thought would be interesting to discuss.
One thing I learned, which is what prompted a lot of discussion on other image boards, was about jazz was put on hormones so early mean surgery to make a vagina out of such a small penis cant be done. I hear its made a lot of self identified transpeople rethink their decision. I guess I wanted a thread were maybe transpeople or detransitioned people could share their stories as its hard to find real trans testimonials which are not the propaganda kind pushed by rapey j penis and the like
saged just in case
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A liberal blogger posted this on their instagram story and I'm just baffled that people (liberals especially) can admit that furries are a problem but would never, ever, EVER criticize transgenderism despite it being way more pervasive and threatening in everyday society. and so many trannies are hardcore into furry shit, vore/zoophilia, sissy fetishism, anime and other similar fandoms, like, come on. make the connection already!
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wow that's fucking insane. it's way more obvious that this shit happens in the trans community than furries. furries are still widely mocked and aren't considered and oppressed group or anything. imagine what kind of people would be attracted to a label that renders them blameless, harmless, brave, angelic, and victims. Surely no one would claim this label other than people who really really mean it and have nothing to hide, right?!
It's like there's a small part of their mind that recognizes this shit, but they've brainwashed themselves so good that they're able to pin the accusation on some random low hanging fruit like furries. That's really alarming. If you see injustice but won't call out the actual perpetrators for fear of being a pariah or meanie, and instead take out your frustration on someone else, you're a perfect little pawn and a coward.
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I've seen recent videos so not, not shopped, jazz has gained like 30lbs+ apparently. I wonder if its to do with the hormones?
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>cute tomboy lesbian in my uni
>she has always been kinda shy and quiet although she was the vocal libfem type when needed
>starts dating the biggest special snowflake i know
>the snowflake's wingman is another big snowflake
>Wingman is a weeb gay dude that love yaoi lanky bois but is kinda short and frumpy himself (this is for context idc about his appearance)
>Has a weeb nickname that virtually noone calls him by, because it's cringy enough in highschool, imagine in uni
>After a year turns into ~non binary uwu~ and changes his name to a new weeby name
>Acuses people of being transphobic if they don't refer him to his weeby nu-name
>Back to tomboy girl
>Dating this snowflake, each year passes and she's deeper in libfem hell
>Cuts her breasts and goes on T
>Non-binary now, male pronouns and name and whatnot
I mean, she can do whatever she pleases, but it's pretty sad, especially considering she was proud lesbian. I don't know what she calls her sexuality now?
I mean, I'll still call her by her new name and whatever, but I feel like she'll just end up hating herself (and/or others) more. I hope I am wrong.
Don't read it then?
I was just trying to bring IRL examples of trans fuckery.
trans is totes not lesbian erasure amirite?>>235125
who cares about your lack of contribution. >blogpost
this isn't /pt/.
Tell me about it. I bet she'll say something like "I was never comfortable wearing women's clothes and presenting as a girl, so this was the obvious choice for me"… And then say clothes are not gendered in the same heartbeat. I don't get it.
Forgot to add, she started working at a place that only hires trans, gay people and women; however most of their employees were "nonbinary" and transmen. It probably influenced her even more, especially considering that one of her closest friends there was an "ex woman" just like her - same choices of clothing, same haircut and similar hair colors, same "this moustache is all I've grown so far since on T so I will proudly show it even though I look like a 13 y/o boy".
I am either waiting the detransition in like 5 to 10 years or they being in the 10th circle of trans hell, which I can't even begin to imagine how dangerous could be
I've always thought of furries as a subculture. Tonnes of mentally ill and some just normal introvert/artist types. Not sure why some furries are trying to label it a sexuality or a full life transformation. It's a hobby, not a sexuality or type of gender.
Kinda like I disagree with how ddlg has become a trend for 14 year olds. Back in the day kids were goths or emos. Now they have weird subcultures that were derived from adult's bdsm roleplays/kinks.
How did the line blur from actual gender/sex to this little otherkin fairy non binary shit. I've seen a lot of stuff on the internet but I beleive I am hitting a wall in my knowledge about this stuff and why people say it and do it.
My theory is that people used to do shit to be different but there was only so much they could borrow and become. Now everyone is being raised as autists because of the Internet and social media, there's more weird and wonderful things to identify as, and it's all a big contest on who can be the weirdest most special snowflake.
A girl I used to follow is now non binary and I just don't get it at all. I call her they or whatever the fuck, but after all my reading in this, I refuse to believe non binary is a thing.
Maybe I'm just old and out of touch.
>>235149>she thinks porn is a positive thing
maybe you're in the wrong thread? radfems don't buy into the sex work trend. also why was that
your issue with anon's statement? wtf?
How disgusting. I think you're on the wrong site,
go back to tungle.hell if you want to be a porn positive retard.
I get your point,and the majority of women that do porn or escort have addiction/mental problems/unstable childhoods, however there are many who choose that lifestyle. Not everyone wants to be a doctor or lawyer.
You could argue the same about male drug dealers. Sure they could work, but without college,they usually can't find good jobs that actually pay well. Not a man, but in that situation i could see how they'd rather sell drugs than flip burgers.
Was this written by caitlyn jenner?
Jokes aside, this is an example of one of those idiots who think women are one dimensional creatures all about makeup and outfits.
I wouldn't be suprised if he had one of those fetishes where the women do their makeup and make them sissys and was just confused or simply craves the attention that a woman gets. He sounds like an attention whore friend who makes everything about them.
I have a beta friend who always tries to confide in me. I stopped trusting him when he whined about not feeling comfortable and ugly in his body. I offered to help with his makeup and went as far as to buy him a wig. He later confessed he is not fully trans but enjoys women forcefully putting makeup on him and likes the way women's clothes feel. I spewed in my mouth a little, threw out the wig and ended up ghosting him about the makeup date. He still tries to this day reach out when I am sad or angry but I ignore him as I know he's just waiting for an opportunity to do something with me. Or hang around for scrappy seconds. He's cheated on his last gf twice and now he's dating an 18 year old. He failed to tell me her age because he was 'scared i wouldn't approve'
TLDR- The guy that wrote that post is an attention whore and is attracted to society's idea of a woman and not actually being one.
Why though? I am not the same anon from before. I don't think porn or escorting is good at all, infact I pointed out that it attracts the mentally ill, and I would never do it, not to mention it's a horribly sexist job. I was just saying there are some people who just choose that lifestyle. Also, because our society has sex and money plastered everywhere and sugar baby culture becoming the norm, can you blame people for wanting to do it? Tv shows like secret diary of a call girl and many others glamourise it.
But there is always that small percent who just do it because they want to.
but anon, the mentally ill and poor women who do it out of necessity are the ones who should get sympathy. those who choose to do it are a big part of the problem. sex work is dangerous, harmful and disgusting and choosing to go into it is just idiotic.
your comments are pretty pointless btw.
If you read my post, you will see that I am actually agreeing with you that it is dangerous and not a good thing to get into. I said that. I get your point about the normal people getting into it that make it a bigger problem for those that are forced into it. I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't think my points about our society being sex fueled is pointless however. I was just pointing out as long as there is a need for it, it will exist. It's shitty and shouldn't exist, but it sex sells and always will and there's nothing we can do to change that. I was trying to show how media attracts the 'normal types' as you say, and sucker them into thinking this is okay as a job. I wouldn't say the things I touched on as 'pointless'
People are going to pursue sex work no matter what the stigma and to be honest, I'd rather it be a mentally sound person taking on these responsibilities rather than someone forced into in.
What's the point in having an echo chamber where people with differing views are told to leave? What's so female friendly about implying women with fake breasts and bleached hair are lesser?
I come here for the transtrender discussion, not to act like fully grown adult women aren't capable of deciding for themselves whether or not they want to take part in porn.
wrong. you're delusional if you think women are making these choices in a vacuum, even if they're well educated. women get degrees but realize that in practice, no men actually give a fuck that they're educated, and they're still treated like shit in professional settings.
and some of these women are like, borderline or histrionic, etc. even if these women are well educated, it doesn't stop them from falling prey to men pretty much only praising them for their sexual utility.
you're basically regurgitating the same talking point as dumbfuck mras that say that 'genderless' nordic society still results in females choosing 'female oriented' jobs.
lol that anon isn't the same person who said that. also, she's saying that unlike what many people would like you to think, people make decisions reflecting their society so it's not really possible that educated women are magically able to see past the patriarchal mindgame bs that sexwork is, especially when seemingly smart women engage in it as well.
her statements don't contradict you just can't read.
, i wasn't the anon you were responding to. >>235169
is my first post to you. and i dont really understand the idea that trying to minimize the damage caused by it is useless. people will still smoke cigarettes, but us governemnt anti-cigarette activism has reduced consumption by like 40% in recent years. and the more the dangers are spoken about, and it not normalized as a legitimate career path, the more females are saved from harm, and the more we are seen as human. very few women actually 'choose' to go into it, anyways. there are definitely different types of 'choices' though. there's legitimately mentally ill women, and then there are emotionally susceptible women and girls that are bombarded by male propaganda and conditioned into making 'choices' that harm them. and then there are obviously women that are physically forced into it.
seriously. it's because it's so normalized. it also has to do with the conclusions some women come to about sex work. many women seem to think that by doing sex work, they are somehow outsmarting men, making them pay to look at or fuck them, without realizing that in reality they are becoming a slave to men and to sex for money. it's also more dangerous than average work, because it is so personal, not to mention the types of men who need to pay to fuck women, it's not as if they are mentally sound. even other types of sex work, you get crazy men who become obsessed with you, stalkers, even internet stalkers can find where you live. this shit happens because the women are making themselves objects whether they like it or not. ans not because 'eww gross whores are nasty sex is demeaning' that's not the demeaning part. it's telling the world you have nothing to offer but your body to people who don't care about your mind.
more social programs need to be put in place to protect women from this work if they can't survive otherwise.
>>235189>many women seem to think that by doing sex work, they are somehow outsmarting men, making them pay to look at or fuck them
god i've heard this so many times and it's crazy how they don't seem to realize how depressing this attitude is. it's basically saying you're going to get treated like shit anyway and there's nothing you can do, so you might as well squeeze money out of it. even if that makes sense on some level you're obviously getting yourself into even more harrassment than you would be if you didn't get into sex work, so it seems like you're just giving up and letting the creeps win in exchange for money you could've earned some other way.
Fuck. I hate to generalize so I'm willing to believe there are some sws out there who truly don't mind and just don't give a fuck, but most of them seem to have a fucked up sad philosophy or deep issues.
I think their mentality is that men are ruled by sex and it's pathetic that they need to pay for it.
I've seen many 'teehee they just pay me to dance round a pole and shake my tits while I take the peasants money' but they don't realise that as soon as their boss thinks they are getting less attractive or old looking, they will be booted out of there.
Same goes for prostitution.
I think the women that tell themselves this, have been in the industry too long and have learned what men are really like, so they try and fob off their poor life decisions as empowerment. Sadly, they don't see the bigger picture of how damaging it is.
but anon that's where you are wrong. the less people do something, the more out of place people seem when they do it. tons of change happens simply by people choosing not to engage in something.>>235196
tons of the women i see with this mentality are usually younger and think they're ahead of the game
my big problem is that libfems have tried to convince everyone that it's basically safe and empowering and fun and feminist, so you have a bunch of choice feminists getting into it who really can't handle it. It's like if you wanted more people to do heroin so you told them it's always clean and safe, or you told people to get face tattoos because it's accepted everywhere and no on'es going to give you a hard time, or that motorcycles don't crash and car drivers love them.
the types of women getting into sw should be the few who completely realize it's dangerous, degrading, wrought with harrassment and misogyny, but they really don't care.
That's what I've been trying to say but keep getting replies that even those women shouldn't do it and that if no woman does it, the world will stop it's societal norm of sexualising women.
I'm not saying I agree with sex work but pointing out no matter what we do, there's no way to completely eradicate it. Anons keep disagreeing without giving me actual ideas as to how to stop sex work existing, apart from 'women should just stop doing it period'
I KNOW that's a solution, but unfortunately not one that is realistic.
They have the logic of those people who say 'if you stop paying attention to the kardashians, they will disappear. They are correct to some degree, but due to their constant marketing and the fact they keep breeding, there will always
be fans and no amount of hate or ignoring will make them disappear any time soon.
Now can we get back onto the gender stuff?
I'm anti-trans, but radfems are really illogical sometimes. Saying all x are y does not imply all y are x.>>235149
You don't have to be that pretty to do porn. What are you waiting for? Go gag on a cock til you vomit. Go get raped on set. Get an STI. Develop a drug addiction to deal with the trauma of paid rape. And remember, sex work is work!>>235189
If you assume that prostituted women/camgirls "have nothing to offer but [their] body", the problem is with your assumption. Treating prostituted women like they're only good for 1 thing just because they're prostitutes is misogyny. I'm anti-prostitution and also anti-treating-prostitutes-like-lesser-human-beings.
are you an idiot? i'm saying thats how men
view them i literally said it tells the world, as in society thinks that. wtf is wrong with you?
NTA but I agree with you. When you sell yourself you are telling the world you have no other value, because the world doesn't value you as a woman to begin with. Idk why anon was saying that you're misogynistic, you clearly weren't saying you feel that way one way or the other and even said we need more help for people who get stuck in that life. I think anon is just virtue signaling and being an edgy tryhard as well.
In any case can we get back on topic?
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I still can't get over how funny this is. Being a bio woman has a lot of cons, but the thought of spiting guys like him with my mere existance is another little thing that makes me happy to be one ♡
I feel you. I have a mtf in my group of friends and nobody really treats him like "a woman". I used to be annoyed when they belittled me (like doing stuff for me that they thought I wouldn't be able to do) but now I let them kek
These guys are ridiculous and think being a woman is "putting on lip gloss and girlish laughter" lol
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Not sure whether to laugh or cry laughing
I know anon, I was making an old imageboard joke.
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I don't think I've gone full TERF yet but man am I starting to get sick of trannies.
Pic related is my girl crush, Madison Paige. A beautiful, masculine yet proud woman who despite being gender nonconforming did not end up being dragged into trans bullshit and likely never will. Young butch women still exist and they are perfection, lemme tell you.
I know a couple of trans women personally who both told me that Madison is "obviously a closeted FTM" because apparently women can't just be tomboys anymore. Both are unironically transbians who constantly shit on actual lesbians out of what's clearly jealousy and butches seem to be the main targets. Transbians will either make fun of them for "looking like men" or calling them FTM trannies in denial. They say the same thing about gender critical feminists too. "Just a bunch of self-hating FTMs". Yeah right.
This woman is gorgeous, wow.
I honestly think it’s sad that people are so stuck on gender self-hatred that they become trans, rather than just loving themselves for who they are.
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>>235809>>235809> A beautiful, masculine yet proud woman who despite being gender nonconforming did not end up being dragged into trans bullshit and likely never will.
Well this is new considering she was just a lesbian last I checked. God damn it. I hate this nonbinary shit. All the hottest butches are getting sucked in.
Is that supposed to be a male form of Madison?
Lol, that was quick (sorry for the original anon)
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Ok stole this from a blog-apparently shit is going down in the comments because jk rowling is being called a TERF for liking this tweet.
You know if trans "women" actually supported women and didnt act like prissy men then maybe they wouldn't get their assed called out all the time.
Also I regret voting labour in the last election, I will never again.
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>>235874>Kill jk rowling because she liked a tweet fucking REEE
And yet trannies have the fucking nerve to call feminists violent?
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Since logic isn't working,just express concern for her health, but leave it at that. If she stays on just a small dosage on T until logic comes around or she gets bored, it'll be better than her believing she needs to escalate her transition and do something more permanent.
You really have to bend backwards to make yourself seem on her side and tolerate her "dysphoria" to some degree, or she'll see it as a typical teenage chance to rebel. Doing too much might only make the problem worse.
The best solution might be to get her away from the internet with activities and hoping the problem runs out of steam when the transcult isn't fanning her flames. Get her involved in actual shit that matters, like a teen job, art classes, theater, camping, volunteering with kids or animals.
Maybe show her some things with strong, powerful women not defined by their gender in things like movies and books. Situations like these are pretty precarious.
How old is she? Can she fully understand the consequences this will have on her body? Does she understand that it's impossible to change her sex? What's her parents approach to this?
This article might be helpful: https://4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/
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>"Transphobia" is awful but misogyny is a-ok
Seriiously this is why I fucking side eye the lbgt media outlets.
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Totally not mental illness.This is the third time I've had to come out to my family, first as a gay boy, then as a trans woman and now as a lesbian. Last year, Jolene told MailOnline how she has spent a staggering $92,500 AUD (£50,622) on cosmetic procedures including forehead fillers and jaw slimming in a bid to look like a Bratz doll. She is also planning to have her Adam's apple removed and her belly button 'sewn up' in the next phase of her Bratz transformation.I'm glad I've kept my penis now, that really helps. It all started four weeks ago when I started dating a couple and found myself enjoying the sex with the other woman more.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5535655/Transgender-woman-reveals-wild-Tinder-dating-past.html
Honestly the I hate my boobs
stuff is all completely normal teenage reactions to puberty.
Shows how misogynistic it is because the posited ideal is a girl saying "I have boobs! Yay! I love attention from strange men! Periods make me fertile and womanly and do not detract from my life at all!" Which are all male opinions.
So if you don't have a positive third person perspective on your changing body UR A BOY NOW
What the fuck is this article? Jamie Pallas essentially says "anyone who disagrees with us is breaking the law AND silencing trans people".
So women should just shut up then?
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found this on tumblr and it's funny
i don't think they give a fuck. these 'right side of history' idiots always blatantly reject the idea that anyone does anything for any reason that's not 'pure innocent uwu'
one of my "friends" used to be like that. with things he cared deeply about he'd outright accuse any negative story or impact or person as a lie. he still does the same thing with trans, but it's cause he's basically one of them, gets turned on by womens clothing n shit, he confessed at a party once that he's too ugly to be a girl otherwise he'd do it i'm sure.
The interesting thing about this is the end. A “man” gets pregnant, really enjoys the experience, and as a result doesn’t get a hysterectomy or go back on T.
Also that she felt the need to “unpick the flowers” from her maternity trousers. Imagine your identity being so fragile you couldn’t wear a pair of floral trousers for a month or so.
Sweden initiated gender neutral preschool guidelines in 1996.Science may still be divided over whether gender differences are rooted in biology or culture, but many of Sweden’s government-funded preschools are doing what they can to deconstruct them. State curriculum urges teachers and principals to embrace their role as social engineers, requiring them to “counteract traditional gender roles and gender patterns.”It is normal, in many Swedish preschools, for teachers to avoid referring to their students’ gender — instead of “boys and girls,” they say “friends,” or call children by name. Play is organized to prevent children from sorting themselves by gender. A gender-neutral pronoun, “hen,” was introduced in 2012 and was swiftly absorbed into mainstream Swedish culture, something that, linguists say, has never happened in another country.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/24/world/europe/sweden-gender-neutral-preschools.html
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An Old English term reclaimed by trannies.
Of uncertain origin. Cognate with Old High German pad (“hermaphrodite”). Related to Old English bædling (“effeminate man”), and Old English bædan (“to defile”).
an effeminate man
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Someone posted this in the last thread without a link and I've been searching everywhere for it. Does anyone have the link to this?
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Dunno if you guys watched the Roseanne reboot, but Darlene has ason who likes to wear crazy colors and girls clothes and paint his nails. In the second episode, they deal with the topic of him possibly being bullied at school and Roseanne straight up asks him if he feels like a boy or a girl, and he quickly responds with "A boy". He then says wearing all sorts of weird clothes just feels like him and is more creative.
I was so glad they didn't go the easy transkid route. I mean, he could still be eventually written as gay, but I hope he just winds up being a straight boy who doesn't give a fuck about gendered clothing.
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this makes me want to bang my head against the wall repeatedly
That logic holy fuck
if that's the case time to get some bad dragon dildos
Imagine a FTM saying "you gay men use assholes as a vagina substitute, so maybe you'd like the real thing".
Although apparently FTMs are also becoming entitled these days.
Well, I remember one fakeboi on tumblr made a post that was like "Cis gay men be putting the weirdest stuff up their asses, but can't handle strapons and post op ftm dicks???" and it actually got a lot of notes from other fujos. Wish I had the post, but I can't find it.
It's definitely a problem with all of them, transbians are just worse about it because male entitlement.
I don't know if this poem has been shared yet, but the fetishism is off the charts.https://twitter.com/LeftAtLondon/status/964032016680345600
Honestly reading this makes me feel disgusted about myself, and I already feel that way when these kinds of people act like they need to let everyone know they "respect brown people"…
Good god in heaven. This person’s mental illness is fading fast faced with the reality of their mutliated body. Way to go guy.
Yeah. It’s bad, bro. You did a stupid thing and you won.
Yeah really.>jobless, broke, nowhere near another surgeon>"yeah I'll go with the only one available and trust him with life-changing surgery">"I won't be able to afford it if something goes wrong, but I'm sure it'll be fine"
What could possibly go wrong? It's just removing a healthy organ and disfiguring it in order to make it look like something else. No biggie.
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A woman made a post about how beauty standards are harsher on women than they are men, this was a trannies "proof" female privilege.
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>>238419>filled with dreadlocks
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>Its a men thinking growing out their hair makes them women episode.
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If you translate that post into normal English it goes like this:>some gay men want to shove things up their asses but none of them want to have sex with a (deformed) woman wwaaaah I'm upset but I pretend I'm not"
Can't believe it's the same type of people who harass girls who like reading BL and slash while actually respecting others and preach about boundaries and consent, what kind of lack of self-awareness is this.
Yeah dude. Brassard like INSISTS that patients don't need to undergo hair removal on the shaft because he will use his "special technique" to destroy the hair follicles, meanwhile I've heard from countless former patients (and experienced first hand) that hair continues to grow inside, falls out and gets knotted up forming a mat, and just sits inside collecting dead skin cells, bacteria, sweat, pee, feces, etc. Any time I see an UwU ~transgirl~ thread talking about how their surgical indentations are even REMOTELY like real vaginas I get super fucking tRiGgErEd
Like uhhh no our vaginas aren't just rotting pouches filled with debris, thank you.
I'm so sorry :( you know, an alarming amount of women who transition do so because they are traumatized from enduring misogyny and male-on-female violence. You're not alone. Radical feminists absolutely understand and empathize with why women choose to transition to "escape" womanhood, it's just that we acknowledge that it's a short-sighted solution, it doesn't help elevate women as a class
from the harms of gendered socialization, and we disagree with transactivists that it's "natural" or innate rather than a reactionary coping mechanism.
The sad reality is that, as women, our "feminine" identities are formed within a context that expects our "femininity" to be sexually appealing to heterosexual males. It primes us to have an identity crisis when we are targeted and hurt for our femininity, because it's the same identity template we are told to adhere to and are socially "rewarded" for (whilst butch/masculine women are socially "punished"). Females (arguably males as well, but the degrees of freedom they have are so different from ours) still don't have permission to develop genuine identities.
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>>238569>hair continues to grow inside, falls out and gets knotted up forming a mat, and just sits inside collecting dead skin cells, bacteria, sweat, pee, feces, etc.
Anyway, one of my close girl friends started tweeting "Death to terfs" and similar shit. I'm officially sad.
It makes all of their talk about their brand new unused "vaginas" being better than a biological womans vagina all the more hilarious.
A biological woman can take dicks all day, and her vagina will still self-clean and won't turn into a rotting, festering mess with hair growing on the inside.
I remember feeling like this at your age but as >>238532
>The opposite of weakness is not masculinity, but it's okay to crave the boons of it.
It's normal to feel that way. Women are not always weak and fragile. I encourage you to learn self defense and working out whenever you can.
Men like to argue and say that it makes no sense, since men are stronger than women, but that's a bullshit reason because we aren't learning self defense to go beat up men, we learn it so we can defend ourselves from attacks and escape the threat. One good jab in the eyes or getting him off guard Will give you the time to run away, most attackers won't bother chasing you down. Especially if you're going fast because of your increased stamina from your training.
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Seriously why are they like this? Even if you support them they will find a way to call you all kinds of phobes and isms.
And how are ~trans allies~ supposed to know how to call them if they themselves freely switch between I'm trans btw :3
and ARE YOU IMPLYING IM NOT A REAL WOMAN REEEEEE
depending on what's more convenient for them at the moment? God I hate this shit. Trans women need to fuck off.
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jesus christ I want to die after reading this
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>>238800>And to top it all off, his assistant misgendered me. And this wasn't just some slip due to being non-passing or anything like that(though that's not at all excusable either)>slip due to being non-passing>(though that's not at all excusable either)
Let me get this straight, now it's a crime to "misgender" even trannies that don't pass at all? You have to look at them and just do some mindreading with your third eye and somehow know that they're "actually wymen"? They're just all sorts of crazy, wew
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Apparently, if they “trying” to present female(wear shitty wigs, $2 make up and a dress) it’s clear they ARE female and to dare misgender them is a clear act of violence.
If they look like an ugly man in a fucking dress, people will react and look at them as an ugly man in a dress, I don’t understand why it’s so hard for them to realise that.
Love how trannies think they pass. Sober people will always
be able to tell, even if they're blind or deaf. They just play along because they're too nice or non-confrontational to say anything.
Anyways, I'm kin with both the doctor and his assistant.
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Tweet was deleted, of course, but this is still hilarious.
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I thought this tweet had to be from a troll, but it looks like the user is 100% serious
So according to him women are stupid as fuck and men are assholes so they can't support others and give compliments? I found his profile on twitter and it says>I have BPD. Atheist and anti-theist. Equal rights for all
Nobody wants advice from someone with BPD who wants to cut off his dick, and I don't want a sexist asshole telling us that he's for equal rights.
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post another, anon.>>239455
it doesn't sit right with me, either, but that's not the only reason they're suspicious. the fact that this person came from iran, where gay men are basically forced into transing, is the primary motivation for the suspicion.
partisangirl, who can read farsi, posted that nasim wrote something about being trans on her insta in farsi, and nasim's fans were calling her/him? an "iconic vegan sis" (in english), and tagging people to check nasim out. it also seems as if nasim is wearing a breastplate in numerous videos/shots.
it's totally possible. without the suspicious other stuff, i doubt radfems would be analyzing her/his body so much. it's not as if they did that for the san bernardino shooting.
it really could go either way at this point, but radfems do have to be vigilant, because we ARE seeing lots of rape/murders/child porn/bestiality cases, especially, attributed to females now, and even when it's obvious that they're trans, or they post that they're trans, no media revises or makes it clear, at all.
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I wasn't sure where else to post this but this was the eye roll of the century for me. A fully grown adult is offended by someone using gendered pronouns for a cat. Fair enough use whatever the fuck you like for yourself but it's a cat, why insert yourself in to this? other than to gain sympathy and asspats for how terribly difficult your life must be. It's a fucking picture of a cat. Sage for pointless frustration at nonbinary attention seeking.
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that’s an adam’s apple friends…
My first instinct was that she was male, but from reading the kiwi farms thread about it, it seems possible that she was simply a masculine-looking female.>>239885
It's not like it's impossible for there to be a female shooter. It won't change the fact that the vast majority of shooters, murderers, rapists etc are male.
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This is trans activist Eli Elrick. He has been accused of raping a trans man and people are still treating him like he's such a great amazing human and placing him on a pedestal. https://www.google.ca/amp/ladiesappreciationlife.tumblr.com/post/148550051791/trans-icon-eli-erlick-is-a-rapist-and-abuser-and/amp?source=images
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I read an article calling transpolitics "revenge of the patriarchy" and it's so accurate.
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i wonder why they dont get after the men who kill and beat them instead kek
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honestly they probably find it validating when men ''cat call'' them kek
Don't kill yourself.
Ok, I'll tell you what to do.
But first, what not to do:
Don't get a fake vagina. They are literal gaping wounds, they don't heal properly, you have to keep re-opening it and it's very infection prone. It'll make your life worse.
Don't harass women, never ever. I'm not saying you're doing it right now, but this is just an obvious one that people that are socialized like males need to always be reminded of.
You don't need to lift or have a "peak performance" body. You can enjoy being frail and soft. These are not inherent female atributes. A lot of women and men like soft men. Don't worry about your appearance so much.
Get therapy. Really. Talk about your dysphoria (it's not always gender related, btw - women get it a lot because society sucks), but don't talk about transitioning or else your therapist will likely put on hormones that will fuck your body and worsen your mental state. Hormones really are not the solution. If you want a more "feminine" body, you can use a lot of drag tricks. Also it seems like you have depression. You should focus on that more than the trans thing. It's a rocky path, but it is manageable.
Do what you like - wearing dresses, lipstick, long hair, all that shit. I'll warn you (you probably know this if you do it on the regular tho), people will probably mock you and harass you if you do it publically because people (especially males) are assholes and homophobic to shit. I'd do it only in the comfort of my own home, and get the sweet male priviledge on public. Grown hair is usually not a problem, though, they'll just think you're a metalhead or a hipster.
I just took my time because I really don't want to see people killing themselves, especially the clearly mentally ill. Godspeed.
That's some shit some of them actually say though. It might be somewhere in this thread or the old one, but it's basically>I get catcalled and I love it, all women should love it
You just love it because you get sexual gratification from it. No woman likes getting catcalled, because you never know whether you'll receive more harassment afterwards. (though I read some stupid article of a white woman in Japan being like "not even the construction workers catcall me ;;" which was just pathetic, but I digress)
Seriously, what a loser.
This faggot literally can only complain about BAAAAAW I'M NOT A WOMAAAAAN I CANT DATE MY PERFECT
Why don't you try to get actual responsibility in your life? I guarantee, that if you had others to take care of (children, chronically ill parents, volunteering etc.) or had others relying on you, you wouldn't even think about your petty ~identity~ bullshit.
Stop being so fucking self-centered, grow up, and be accountable for others. You don't need to be a man or woman to be able to do that.
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Reminds me of the time a trans male twitter employee raped his wife, and the trans cult actively worked to quiet it down rather than condemn him.https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/is-transgender-the-get-out-of-rape-free-card-twitter-rapist-dana-mccallum-walks-free/
Transactivists' are ramping up their campaign to censor gender critical speech on Twitter.
Not only have several more Twitter accounts belonging to gender critical feminists been suspended in recent weeks, one woman was interviewed by police and may face criminal charges.In response to a complaint filed by Susie Green, CEO of Mermaids, the Yorkshire police interrogated Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull @ThePosieParker because of some tweets she posted in 2016 and 2017.Mermaids is a nonprofit organization based in the UK. According to its website, Mermaids “supports children and young people up to 20 years old who are gender diverse, and their families, and professionals involved in their care.”According to Ms. Keen-Minshull’s account, Ms. Green objected to a tweet stating that “the CEO of Mermaids took her 16-year-old to Thailand and got him castrated.”For this tweet and others criticizing Mermaids for promoting pediatric transition, Ms. Keen-Minshull was “interviewed under caution” for 40 minutes on February 23, 2018. She now awaits the Crown Prosecution Service’s decision on whether she will be charged. According to Ms. Keen-Minshull, the potential charges against her are “nuisance, public order, malicious communications compounded with a potential hate crime.”https://4thwavenow.com/tag/posie-parker/https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/fighting-for-free-speech-in-uk/http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/04/05/twitter-transgender-critic-question-police-banned-leaving-uk/
This article does an excellent job of dismantling the misconceptions of transgenderism (eg. brain gender) and explaining the risks of transitioning children in a very straightforward manner and includes citations of medical studies.
The related articles listed at the bottom are also worth reading and propagating.
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hey it's unfortunate you feel that way about happiness/fulfillment/acceptance but I've often felt the same way just as a lesbian woman, and so do many of my heterosexual 'cis' friends, or even plenty of Straight White Males™ . I hope we all can find a place in life someday but viewing the source of the problem/freakishness as a gender issue probably won't help.
Back to the actual thread topic…
kek I was reading some article todayhttp://www.womenatwarp.com/dax-trans/
and it's astonishing how this person took this experience with his peers / hearing his male peers misogyny , to later validate his transgender choices. Wow instead of even finding better male friends or new female friends, just pin it all on being born differently. Do all trans people think they're the only ones to ever be alienated ?
Trying to get back on track, this doctor made an evaluation of Jazz's bookhttp://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/04/21220/
>There are five pubertal development stages, which are known as Tanner Stages. They go from 1 (no development, prepuberty) to 5 (full adult development). This is what a pediatrician would use to determine the level of a child's development.
>Current guidelines recommend starting puberty blockers at Tanner stage 2 (sparse pubic hairs, minimal testicular growth). This will reduce testosterone to very low levels. Because of this, Jazz’s male genitalia are “locked in” at Tanner stage 2. There is by definition “no enlargement of the penis” to that point. That accounts for Jazz’s child-size penis and the problems with surgery discussed earlier.
It's pretty sad but I actually found hilarious to think that grown-ass guy has a penis the size of a child. Poor guy.
nta, but>do you find circumcision funny to?
it's objectively hilarious.
thanks for the input, I'm sorry I don't spend 24 hours here like you apparently do>>240463
The fucking image is hilarious, yes, but that's it. Like I also said, it's sad. But he's in too deep now and he can't get free, as his mother make him the poster guy for trans.
the natural penis is
fucking nasty, you cocksucking sperg.
Europe-Fag here, every guy I've been with was intact and smelt perfectly clean/there were no problems. Clean guy is clean guy, surgery or no.
(only problems were with their personalities)
>>240535>kys because you disagree with me on a procedure that doesn't even negatively impact the quality of life of the person receiving it in any way
Congrats on just looking like an unhinged psycho and reaffirming my view that you're not to be taken seriously. >>240534
Given the things many European countries ban as well as some of the other fucked up laws they have, that's not a great argument. Also, I just Googled the thing I said about infections/STDs, since you claimed nothing I said was true and you can look at what the search yields for yourself.https://www.google.com/search?q=does+circumcision+prevent+stds&oq=does+circumcision+prevent+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.14422j0j7&client=ms-android-motorola&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
americans are literally retarded.
jsyk, if it does prevent any stds it only does for the man who had the procedure, and it actually makes the partner more likely.
please do some actual research, most of the world thinks your country is insane.
>>240545>just another case of americans being behind the game.
Oh please. America is awful, but don't act like the UK is so superior given your history, some of the crazy laws your country has, and how racism is barely less prevalent there.
Not to mention, an earlier anon posted an article about how your country sends rapist trannies into female prisons…
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this shit is straight out of futurama lmao
What the FUCK. You can see that the female contestants are just rolling their eyes at him. This shit is absurd. >>240763
Haha, I was just thinking the same thing.
But under the International Olympic Committee guidelines, he is a woman, and nearly all international sporting organisations adopt IOC guidelines. Both the old and new guidelines are gross over-simplifications of the physiological differences between the sexes. That the IOC claims to be operating under "the overriding sporting objective is and remains the guarantee of fair competition" (see full quote below) is laughable.
The IOC rescinded the requirement for surgery because, increasingly, surgery is no longer legally required. With the advent of self-ID laws, how long until the IOC eliminates the requirement for hormone treatment?Under guidelines recommended in November 2015, the IOC no longer requires transgender women to undergo surgery then wait two years. Now, a transgender woman need only to wait 12 months after starting hormone replacement therapy and demonstrate that her testosterone levels are within acceptable limits.“We have to follow the policy of the International Olympic Committee and the International Weightlifting Federation,” Garry Marshall, president of Olympic Weightlifting New Zealand, told the Herald. “They do not acknowledge in any way the gender identity of an athlete other than male or female; they’re not described as transgender.”https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/03/22/transgender-woman-wins-international-weightlifting-title-amid-controversy-over-fairness/“It is necessary to ensure insofar as possible that trans athletes are not excluded from the opportunity to participate in sporting competition,” the IOC said in a document (pdf) posted on its website that outlines the guidelines. “The overriding sporting objective is and remains the guarantee of fair competition.“To require surgical anatomical changes as a precondition to participation is not necessary to preserve fair competition and may be inconsistent with developing legislation and notions of human rights,” it added.Former IOC medical commission chairman Arne Ljungqvist, who was among the experts involved in drafting the new guidelines, said the consensus was driven by social and political changes.“It has become much more of a social issue than in the past,” he told Associated Press. “We had to review and look into this from a new angle. We needed to adapt to the modern legislation around the world. We felt we cannot impose a surgery if that is no longer a legal requirement.“Those cases are very few, but we had to answer the question,” he added. “It is an adaptation to a human rights issue. This is an important matter. It’s a trend of being more flexible and more liberal.”https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/25/ioc-rules-transgender-athletes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery
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Literally this picture
Miranda Yardley, a transsexual activist, is facing expulsion from the Labour Party over tweets criticising Lily Madigan and transgender ideology.Biological sex is an immutable bodily fact, determined at conception. Mammals do not change sex. Madigan identifies himself as a ‘trans woman’ thus is by definition male; he is also over 18 years of age, thus an adult human male, which is the dictionary definition of a man. Further, s212 Equality Act 2010 defines ‘man’ as ‘a male of any age’, thus Madigan is both biologically and legally a man. If saying a male person is ‘a man’ is offensive, the corollary is that there’s something wrong with being a man. This is sexism.I have attached several pages of tweets from Madigan where he described women as ‘TERF’; this is a homophobic, misogynistic and dehumanising slur against women, which has been already used to incite violence against women…http://mirandayardley.com/en/how-transgender-ideology-is-destroying-the-labour-party/
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Have you guys seen this tranny having a sperg out over h3 making a joke?
Oh BROTHER. That's a huge reach too. >>241202
I bet alot of mtfs got triggered
under H3h3's tweet. would be a shame if he'll have to apologize just because of some stupid tweet.
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I'm absolutely disgusted by this thread, I can't get over how normalized prostitution is, the guys isn't even ashamed to pay to fuck a woman.(wrong thread)
me to no end and the mainstream media is complicit in creating this shitstorm.
This thread is not the place for discussing prostitution.>>241381
Modern transactivists are one of the largest snowflake SJW factions.
Transactivism is enabled by intersectional and choice feminism.>>241395
Don't forget about the progressive liberal politicians and legislators lobbying for self-ID legislation and the conflation of sex and gender in public policy.
Not that anon, but I kind of want to debate sex workers.
Maybe a new thread would be interesting considering how a lot of cows are "sex workers" and the general accepting culture towards it in the weeb circles.
Since a few hours ago, right.
So, mods, why did you lock the last radfem thread in /g/ and say these threads are for all "TERF" discussion if we're not supposed to talk about non-tranny shit here either?
It's pretty straight forward lol. The thread is about trans so it includes the trans
exclusive aspect of rad femism but not the sw
Not all gender critical feminists are radical feminists.
People who are gender critical are not all female, for that matter.
First of all, males aren't welcome on this board. Second of all, I'm not a radfem either but I still don't see why beliefs associated with radfems aren't allowed in this thread…>>241579
God, I hope not. That would mean that most of the posters here are just mystery.jpg clones. I strongly believe the threads in /snow/ and /pt/ about camwhores are full of other salty camwhores flinging shit at eachother though.
I am not advocating for male participation in this thread. I am presenting the logical syllogistic rebuttal to the claim that people who are gender critical are exclusively radical feminists.
The previous thread was created by Admin with the statement, "Please keep all trans/gendercrit/TERF discussion to this thread." Only the threads discussing those subjects were redirected. Threads discussing prostitution were not.
Nothing is stopping you from starting a thread in OT to discuss prostitution, and there seems to be interest in having one. Surely many of the anons who want to discuss prostitution and how it affects women do not want to include MtT in the discussion because they are not women.
Do you ever think governments push these agendas for population control? Instead of sterilising some against their will, they're just going to let idiots destroy their bodies for the sake of a fad.
I mean we're probably all better off without them in the gene pool?
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An update on the Speaker's Corner court case.Transgender activist ‘punched radical feminist who was filming her at Hyde Park protest because she thought she was trying to expose her gender identity online’A radical feminist who claims she was attacked by a transgender activist during a protest denies she was filming her in order to 'out' her as transgender online.Tara Wolf [pic related], 26, is accused of assaulting Maria MacLachlan, 61, during a demonstration at Speaker's Corner, Hyde Park on September 13, last year.Ms Wolf, 26, of no fixed abode, denies one count of assault by beating.Under cross examination from Ms Wolf's defense counsel Jodie Anderson, Ms McLachlan denied a suggestion she was seeking to 'out' Ms Wolf as transgender online. She claimed she had pulled out the camera and started filming because she thought she would get some 'amusing footage'.But Jodie Anderson, defending, argued she was deliberately trying to antagonise the protesters and intended to post the footage on her blog, Facebook page and Twitter in a bid to out them as trans.Wolf, who faces one charge of assault by beating, admits being involved in the fracas but insists she was acting in self-defence.Ms Maclachlan, who is active on social media, said: 'I thought it would make some very amusing footage - it didn't really occur to me that someone standing several feet away with a camera would be antagonising when they themselves had voluntarily gone along to this event.'Ms Anderson said: 'As an active tweeter no doubt you are aware that quite often people who identify as trans are targeted and attacked by virtue of their identification.'Ms Maclachlan said she was not even aware the group were trans, saying she thought they were all male.'They were not easily perceived as trans. I don't mind going through them face-by-face if you want to argue the toss,' she said.A judge warned Ms MacLachlan to refer to Ms Wolf using the correct pronoun.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5607919/Transgender-activist-battered-radical-feminist-Speakers-Corner-brawl.html
was you, tbf I actually thought you meant to post it in the man hate thread and got mixed up lol. This thread leans towards radfem, but it's pretty much the tranny hate thread. Sex work is out of place.
Maria MacLachlan's bloghttp://www.peaktrans.org/my-peak-trans/
She details the Speaker's Corner incident with video stills of the attackhttp://www.peaktrans.org
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He was born Tanis Wolf and is being tried under that name; hence the confusion over his name in the press.
Before deciding that he was a woman named Tara Flik Wood he identified as a beer drinking, meat eating, metal listening, Magic playing gamer.https://minaslahthus.deviantart.com
I'll never understand this obsession with TERFs and the practice to limit their efforts to a relatively small, isolated space where it's them against TERFs. My friends, family or co-workers basically know nothing about trans activism because it doesn't reach them and some of them are really
transphobic, using slurs and all that (something I, a "TERF", would never do). And elsewhere, transpeople experience violence. Yet, TERFs are the biggest problem…? Come on! It still surprises me because some trans activists I know are educated and actually smart. Still, their activism is absolutely illogical.
That really explains everything! Now it also makes sense that the educated trans activists I referred to avoid any serious conversation with so-called TERFs and instead attack them instantly. I wonder if/when people will start peaking, though. Like I said, trans activism is relatively isolated in my country, however, some of their excessive demands and bans on speaking ("You can't use this or that word, it's transphobic", "You can't focus on ciswomen
in a conversation about insert topic that affects ciswomen here
, it's transphobic…") do reach mainstream, influence non-activists and sometimes intimidate people who are then especially careful and restrained. It's a bit unsettling.
On the other hand, just like >>241740
said, I used to be like that, too, and somehow managed to overcome that ideology. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯