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No. 314525

Share tips, vent, advice, similar experiences, how to get out of such a rut, what can be changed, what helped you personally, where to meet women you can relate to.

This thread is for:
-those of us who spent our formative years on 4chan/other male dominated spaces and got internet poisoning from it
-those of us who realised men aren't your friends but are now alone
-gender dysphoric women especially socially dysphoric
-ex-TIFs who have come to terms with being female but are now adrift
-those of us who are gender non-conforming in personality, not only appearance
-assorted spergs/speds who have difficulty understanding social norms, unwritten rules, tone of voice, and reading between the lines
-low-empathy or low EQ women
-general loners and NEETs

This thread is NOT for humblebragging about how cool and rational and edgy you are. Please.

For example, I find it difficult to tell lies, even white lies. When I lie it's so obvious it makes it worse. All my friendships with men ended for obvious reasons. I would genuinely like to make female friends so hopefully we can help each other.

No. 314527

File: 1677507009423.png (532.3 KB, 1242x993, tumblr.png)

samefagging to add a screenshot I find relatable

No. 314528

This screenshot makes me very upset because it’s 100% true. And the third gender part is only exacerbated by the fact I can’t relate to men or women. Being a female autist is a very isolating experience in general, but especially in the sense that you’re ostracized by peers of both gender— too masculine to be friends with the girls, but not masculine enough to be friends with the boys, and don’t even get me started on if you look masculine in even the slightest because the psychological warfare waged against the normies (mostly male) only becomes worse. It doesn’t help that female autists are rare enough as is and autism is seen as a “man” thing. I’m just sick of being masculinized, I’m sick of being told that I act like a man, that my features are strong, that even the anime and video games I like make me masculine, I’m tired of it all.

No. 314532

I'm tired of it too, it never seems to improve. It's like something that others pick up on subconsciously. Even the anime thing, is there a set list of anime women are supposed to enjoy? Your post reminds me I'm not the only woman in the world who feels this way. We are what we are.

No. 314533

So what behavior did you emulate growing up? People see gender-nonconforming and call you masculine. It's what they do. You can not be an autist and be stereotypically feminine.

You can femininize what you do though so you're never taken for someone masculine.

I like being gender nonconforming and don't care if people see me as having so called "masculine" traits. But I call them gnc and forget the rest.

No. 314535

Yeah, I sometimes feel as though I have gender dysphoria despite being a biological female. Oddly enough I enjoy dressing up and the like. The second I start talking I out myself though.

Can you elaborate on feminizing what you do? How do you do this without coming off as contrived or fake?

No. 314536

I never experienced this growing up either. There was a lot of gendernonconforming around me though. Sports people, punk girls. I just never felt obsessed over by anybody.

This does not have to be a thing you internalize. Frankly those girls from the quote just sound overbearing and tedious and I would have treated them that way if they were caustically in my face. I wouldnt let them hear the end of it either . It's like why would they be so obsessed with me anyway?? Isn't it more like jealousy I don't feel bound to performing the role they're stuck in?? Most likely

No. 314537

If you enjoy it then it's not fake. How you dress, how you talk, how you use your voice.
As long as you enjoy it that's all that matters.

No. 314538

Alright. Step one is learning to respect and appreciate the women around you. Every time you think that poisonous shit, stop yourself and look at that critically. Maybe she's being inept or dumb but are you being too hard on her? Things like that. Start thinking of positive observations about women when you catch yourself in some misogynistic train of thought as well, counteract the negative by force of will. Especially getting rid of the "women are worse towards women than men are" notion because it's not true at all. When women are being misogynistic it hurts more but they're only doing it because of the same shit you went through. They internalized hatred of themselves and are trying to gain social capital by being competitive. Forgive that stuff, make bonds anyway. A lot of women are in the same boat as you, there is a way to reach them and save yourself along the way. Basically if you can appreciate things bout them, those things you have in common will in time allow you to appreciate yourself too.

As for the gnc side of it, you're going to have to learn some self respect. I don't recommend presenting in ways that aren't natural personally, it catches up to you because whatever validation you get from presenting masc or fem is not based in reality. You'll continue to feel like an impostor. Rationally it's easy to grasp that the "failure" to conform is not really failure, these are just made-up standards that you don't conform to. Emotionally it's not something you can will yourself into not caring however emotions are emotions and you do not have to act on them. So don't apologize for simply being seen as "masculine" or whatever, don't make yourself smaller in situations where you aren't in survival mode (like at a job). If the social situation is entirely optional and going in a hostile direction, get the fuck out. Burn the bridge if you have to, be firm. You can't let people talk to you in a disrespectful way. Circling back to the first point, learn to appreciate other gnc women and let your appreciation of them uplift you. It totally rubs off.

I don't have a ton of advice for the autism although I have it as well. I will say though being completely open and upfront about your struggle to understand tone/subtext (including reading too much into things) is helpful and women generally have a high tolerance for quirks, much more accepting than men actually. If you can continue to communicate when you get stuck, a female friend will empathize and appreciate the work you put into it. Can't stress this enough, women are completely worth communicating openly with. Emotional availability is our strongest asset in making bonds. Be available.

No. 314564

This sound boring, but radfem really helped me.
At first I found myself in an online group of the same "femcel, neet, angry and retarded" women, and we were roasting and hating men and this world together.
When we were tired or bored of hate, we remembered that we, actually, are all feminists here and were discussing theory. Fun times.
Anyway, I realised, that I'm not unique, and there are a bunch of women who are like me or share some of my characteristics. You just need to find THAT thing that'll unite you two.
And now I may not relate fully to my friends, and I'm super awkward, but, still, I love them and they love me. I have chosen to love them even if we are different.

No. 314575

very much so yes, one of the best ways to connect with other humans is having a common enemy

if there isn't one, create one

No. 314585

Resonate with this screenshot so much. I never really did get a grasp of a lot of resentment and hurt i felt in my teen years because of my inability to fit in, but i feel like being on lolcow unironcally helped me resolve this because for the first time in my life, there has been other women i actually relate with and don't always try to shut me down or treat me like i am annoying. I feel like my experiences attempting to be friends with women has largely been them treating me like the pet retard, i'd sit with the group as they had invited me to be with them, but i was not part of the circle. They all did things without me, they would have their own conversations i was not a a part of, they would manipulate my desperate need to want friends and i have humiliated myself vying for their friendships. I am so happy i learned at a decent age to understand they were not my friends, they saw my retardation and were making fun of me the whole time. Even when i am with my female family members, i get a similar energy from them. They are all perpetually obsessed with trying to make me become a pick-me, which is something i vehemently resisted to the point of getting angry sometimes, this was all before i knew what a pick-me was mind you. I thought being a woman was just a biology reality that really shouldn't matter too much and that a lot of things like makeup or shavings were choices women made for fun, but then i realised that almost everyone sees womanhood as just being about presenting yourself to men in a way that's fuckable and that a lot of women will go out of their way to shame women who attempt to stray from this reality. As a teen, i did develop a violent hatred for women because i was disgusted by the fact that they seemed to have no minds of their own, no personal interests, no personalities outside just wanted men to fuck them. I've learned that i obviously shouldn't see women this way, but even when i am on lolcow i sometimes visit /g/ and see nonnies talking about doing nasty shit like oral on their bf or about their hookups and that deep seated hatred honestly fires up a little. It's never left me. It always comes back with the right set of conditions. I do think that radfem stuff has helped a bit because it does help me divert my anger away from women a bit, but i personally don't agree that women are conditioned to be this way, i think it's a choice and always will, so it will always be there inside me.

No. 314619

I relate nonnie. To be honest, you'll find that men are the exact same way you describe women. I feel like it's normie people as a whole you might have problems with, which is understandable. I feel like normal people, man or woman, are both shallow, insufferable, and can be really cruel. Not that ND people are spared from these traits but I find that most ND people are generally more thoughtful and have more empathy, and aren't in general obsessed with powertripping.

No. 314644

im not diagnosed autistic or anything but the social dynamics women tend to create confuse me. ive gleaned overtime that women apparently use more subtle ways to communicate yet it feels like a minefield. like if you tell them that they dress so cute, apparently it can come off as condescending because you didnt use a more serious adjective? most of my friends are men just because i find them easier to talk to. however as i get older i realize how im not okay with this and want more female friends. nothing really compares to a deep and intimate friendship with another woman. going on drives, saying fucked up stuff to each other, roughhousing, talking about boys. feeling like you have found another one of your kind. kindred spirit.
even this femaleosphere that lolcow and cc and radfem stuff are apart of kind of falls flat for me sometimes. theres a set of beliefs youre supposed to have on this site, and if you deviate from them you get attacked. i dont like that. even though i recognize similar things happen on male oriented imageboards.

No. 314647

same, Im a very blunt person so I just say what I think or feel. I think I say 'the wrong thing' without realising it often

No. 314650

File: 1677578437121.jpg (1.6 MB, 1920x2571, 42806534d011650f8983c63706e109…)

A bit ot maybe but I wanted to talk here about how being a lesbian made female relashionship much more difficult, and I wanted to know if anyone could relate.

I use to be a "girl's girl" when I was younger, I was shaped by female friendship and I had extremely codependent relationship with other women. Since I came out as a lesbian, I feel like I have lost such a important pillar in my life. I'm deathly afraid of coming across as creepy to other women, I don't have a gf and I don't really "look like a lesbian" so sometimes women will act around me like I'm straight and it's killing me. I remember when a pretty classmate that I don't know very well huged me a bit suddently. I froze and looked fucking weird and I kept thinking " would she do this if she knew I was gay". Because the truth is, probably not.

The idea that I could be rejected in a platonic way by other women because of my sexuality is so painful that I've now become much more of a loner now. I use to indentlfy as bi ad I can see how differently women react to a bi women and a lesbia women, and it hurts so much.

I put a lot of walls around me because I'm afraid of how women's recation to me, I look and act straight up cold and indifferent now. I just miss contact with other women, the sens of shared experience and the camaderie. I miss it so much. I'm really glad that my best friend is accepting of me but still I can tell that something have change between us, that something is missing.

All of my really strong friendship that I've had when I was younger are tainted now because I feel like I was a gross pervert all along and those precious friend of mine didn't know about it. They invited me to their home and their bedroom, they would change in front of me and tell me very intimate things because they trusted me. Well shit, I'm crying while writting this now, you never really recover from that I think kek.

No. 314654

Aww if it makes you feel better I would love a lesbian friend (hope that doesn't sound weird) because in my experience they're cool and don't care about men!

No. 314659

I am straight but also WGTOW and I never see lesbian attractions as creepy the way I see men's attractions. Not even remotely. If anything i see it all as wholesome and feel really I feel bad it has to be one sided and I can't feel the same. My god if I could my life would probably be a breeze.

No. 314660

>I remember when a pretty classmate that I don't know very well huged me a bit suddently. I froze and looked fucking weird and I kept thinking " would she do this if she knew I was gay". Because the truth is, probably not.
God nonna I know that feel. I'm naturally an extremely touchy-feely person and I love platonic hugs and platonic affection but I put on this fake personality where I'm stoic and unfeeling and hate physical contact and socializing. I feel like if I let a woman hug me or even be kind to me/be friends with me I"m doing some kind of rape-by-deception because she probably wouldn't consent to hugging me if she knew I was gay. And even if she knows I'm gay I still can't open up because I feel like deep down she MUST be disgusted with me.

It was rough as a kid. I was a girl's girl too, my female friendships meant a lot to me. Then we started getting older and they started to get interested in boys and they iced me out. It was like they knew I was gay before I knew I was gay. Suddenly I'm not invited to any more birthdays or allowed to sit with anyone at lunch because I didn't talk about boys enough and it made them suspicious.

No. 314671

I feel so lonely atm because I don't have any female friends. I only have my boyfriend and it feels so unnatural to me to only have a male for company because growing up I was always around my mum and my sisters… men used to always be secondary in my life. But I always had trouble making friends with women my age because I was always the 'weird' one… took me ages to realise it was because I was an autist I spent years of my life feels like I was subhuman and shit because I couldn't make close friendships. Girls liked having me around for a while and they found me funny/interesting but then I always ended up being the 'other' friend and then just left out and forgotten completely. I have one female friend but she moved away after finishing uni and now I barely see her. Sometimes I think I'd like to go back to living with my mum and seeing my sisters all the time. At least then I'd be around women even if I didn't have any friends. Being around a male all the time gets…boring. lmao

No. 314677

They're homophobes nonna. A non-homophobic woman would not treat you differently because they would not think of you as a man just for being into women. They're casting you in a male-lite role in their heads and they're not true friends.

No. 314700

File: 1677610040464.png (1.11 MB, 833x612, 1628930670179.png)

i've been friends with women for most of my life. the last male friends i had irl were when i was 10, after that i went to an all girls school and my classes in college and uni were mostly women. i've befriended many men online and most of them were bad experiences, often they either fell for me or acted predatory towards my online girl friends. i still feel very alienated from men irl, they intimidate me and i rarely ever have to speak to them so it feels very odd when i do.
even though i'm so grateful for my female friends and for never having to deal with shitty men irl, i have always felt strange and inadequate around women. i admire the women around me very much, i used to feel jealous of them but this has become admiration. it all may be because i grew up with a mother and sister who adored makeup and "womanly" things and, while i wanted to get into those things, i didn't believe i was pretty enough for it. for a long time i had (and still sort of have) this complex around not being pretty enough to be a woman, so i would act very boyish and reject any "girly" things. i would take a strong interest in male-dominated hobbies and educate myself on media that men love just in case i ever befriended a man and wanted to impress him (terminal case of the nlog). i grew out of this in my late teens and came to embrace everything i ever wanted to be, started wearing makeup and dressing exactly how i wanted to, accepted the "girly" things i love and don't feel any embarrassment about them anymore.
yet i still feel very inadequate. i'm in my early 20s and when i talk to certain women my age, i'm taken aback by how mature they seem and how well they carry themselves. i'm very awkward in the way i speak and i have long suspected i am autistic (it's also been suggested to me by various people i know irl). but whether i am or not, i feel incredibly childish and silly in the way i talk and act and simply am, especially compared to these women who i wish i were like. i was also very sheltered growing up and currently feel like i'm what i should've been when i was 16. it's great that i'm the woman i am now but i feel so behind. i've always felt this way. in college, in my teens, when i'd talk to certain girls my age i could feel their judgement so strongly because i reeked so heavily of being inexperienced. to this day i get assumed to be younger and i'm guessing it is a mix of my looks and the way i act and my quietness maybe, i just don't exude any maturity until i actually get into a conversation.
i almost feel irritated because many times in my life i've been told by people close to me that i come off very cool, that i am pretty, that i am wonderful in various ways and this all gives me confidence but then i talk to one beautiful woman or just any man and i feel awful, for very different reasons. i'm never approached by men either, this is something i cannot relate to women around me on at all. i'm practically invisible to men and i know it's better this way but god i just feel ugly sometimes (even though i'm not and i know i'm not!).
i wish i weren't this way. i wish i could feel normal for once. i have never felt like i'd be happier as a man, never had any urge to transition but i wish i could feel more comfortable living life as a woman. i deeply wish i could be pretty, really pretty, with natural charisma and some sensuality but i don't have any of these qualities, i think i really come off like a blithering idiot irl. i feel very embarrassed when i remember i exist.

No. 314717

I like this thread. I love women but just cannot hold a conversation with them. I think it stems from trauma of being bullied, especially by my “best friend” during adolescence as well as my stepmother, and having an autistic mom who is even worse at conversing than I am. I want a lady best friend so badly. I realized that men aren’t my friend over 4 years ago and have been alone besides my Nigel bc I don’t know how to make women like me. Sry for the blog but I hope all of u ladies have an amazing day and know you’re not alone in your alienation

No. 314726


No. 314727

I’m glad I’m not alone in this. I’ve had trouble making friends with women in my adulthood. I had girl friends in high school but we had a falling out, one was homophobic and gradually moved to another friend group, and another started displaying pickmeism when she thought I was somehow taking attention away from her when boys were around and became extremely rude towards me. The latter friend eventually became ftm and was messaging kids through kik which was gross as we were seniors.
I think it’s better to meet women through hobbies or workshops (but of course I’m a shut-in currently living in a small conservative town). I’ve tried to make friends with my female co-workers (the only time I go out and see people), and I hate to push the stereotype of “women are worse to eachother”, but it’s what I’ve experienced and I think being in a competitive environment does no favors. A lot of my coworkers were downright nasty to me as well as other women not “in the clique”. I tried making friends in college too, and while I had colleagues I was friendly with, it was never taken to the “next level” of being invited to things. People thought I was nice but that wasn’t really enough to be a friend I guess. I have interests and a personality but it takes me a while to open up and feel comfortable enough to speak without thinking, which most don’t want to wait for.
This vent is all over the place but whatever. I have AVPD which makes it hard to approach people in general. I wish I had female friends, I’m a little envious of those who have strong bonds with other women. I had an easier time making friends with males but they all eventually fell for me and wanted more than a platonic relationship. I want friendships that will last for years and good times.

No. 314973

When I finally do find female friends that I feel comfortable around (I don’t exactly relate to them but it didn’t bother me) they catch the gender woo woo.
I’m so hesitant to hand out with them now, like the thought of going out or seeing them gives me a pit in my stomach. I think I have a crush on one so it’s painful to hear about her being a guy now.

I have more to say but I know it will upset some nonnies here. I have completely lost hope in forming close friendships with women. Ironically it feels only natural that I ended up on LC.

No. 314974

Yes I think being bullied by women when I was growing up really fucked me over. I get very defensive and awkward around women who I perceive to be “cool”

No. 314982

Excuse the rant but I'm glad there's this thread. Recently in therapy I ended up unpacking how much weird female friendship trauma I had since childhood.
Every "best friend/female friend group" I had growing up ended up being a rough experience for me because I was behind the scenes bullied and pushed around by said people, mostly because I just couldn't catch onto social cues and was very gullible. I've had some women talk down to me because of my interests, how I dressed, spoke, etc. in grade school through high school.

I found this happened in early adulthood too to an extent even though I felt I did a pretty good job masking and dolling myself up. I had women boost me up because of looks and then when they caught wiff of how I actually was pretty sperg socially it was like a target was placed on my back.

I often feel I'm in a weird space because I did grow up on 4chan/Reddit and this surprises people when I have said this openly because I don't "look the type."

Right now I do have a female friend group I have finally established, but I'm still having a level of mistrust to this day about them due to past issues. Trying not to self-sabotage this and sometimes it feels like I'm "cosplaying" being a good friend, like literally having to talk to myself like "ah friend is sad, I've seen on media that offering to bring a small gift/ask if they need help is what you're supposed to do."

No. 314993

I'm so happy that therapy helped. I feel like I should also got to therapy for social reasons so you kind of motivated me. For reason very good reasons I don't think I will feel comfortable unloading all my thoughts to a therapist.

What you said about having mistrust about your friends is so relatable. Doubly so when I feel like I do have actual reasons to mistrust them. I keep telling myself that no one is perfect or to stop reading too much into their behaviours/what they say but it just eats me up on the inside.

>t feels like I'm "cosplaying" being a good friend, like literally having to talk to myself like "ah friend is sad, I've seen on media that offering to bring a small gift/ask if they need help is what you're supposed to do."

This is also very true, I feel so robotic with my interactions with people.

No. 315019

I have such conflicting interests as a woman (especially as a lesbian feminist too) that it makes me feel like I can fit in anywhere but also fit in no where–like I'm super picky about the people I wanna hang out with (if that makes sense??)

I grew up with internet access and was a huge furry as a kid (I had a fursona in middle school/high school and it was pretty embarrassing) and I know a fuckton about weird internet cultures that makes me seem like an autistic scrote when I bring them up in public convos. After high school I got really into feminist theory and embracing my homosexuality (after struggling with gender bullshit via tumblr usage overdose) and even now I'm still a huge radical feminist / raging dyke.

Women I work with are mostly normies with husbands/kids and while small-talk is easy, there's almost nothing I relate to with them. It's really hard to find women my age that aren't straight (in my town at least), which I think is a big divider between me and other women too unfortunately.

To be honest I often feel like I'm a lot better than other people/women in general because I'm a (goldstar) lesbian, I have my shit together, I make good money, I'm attractive and fit, masculine and don't take shit from men, competent and smart, etc etc. I realize this is a toxic thought process but I also fully believe it's true and the more I interact with other people the more I think it.

I make "friends" really easily with other women and I have a likable personality/impression. But I often ghost people on a whim because I get bored of them easily.

Is there something wrong with me nonas?

No. 315021

Half-related, it does feel like sometimes there's a "right" and "wrong" way to be attracted to women as a bi woman with a female preference. Like there's almost an expectation sometimes to only like women on a superficial level, drunk kissing or anything with a man present is hot but it's seen as weird and unusual if you have genuine feelings or want a relationship unless it's some creepy poly thing, again with a man being involved and often the focus. I've posted similar on here before and had homophobechans come at me calling me a dyke/incel/whatever for I guess daring to disagree with whatever they think bi women should think about their own sexuality. I do empathize, same sex attraction still gets a lot of judgement from other women, even with the most lib ones you never quite know how it's going to land or if they'll think you're a creep. Not quite the same I know but I feel you and hope it gets better one day.

No. 315084

File: 1677842438750.jpg (Spoiler Image, 123.48 KB, 1080x1351, 25017365_318125112016354_25463…)

I don't understand why women protect and defend coomer shit. Why do they claim they are okay with how objectified and sexualized female characters and women in media are. I will not believe they are actually okay with this, but they protect moid shit even in women-only discussions, where there are no scrotes to impress. I guess most straight women are just permanently ruined by pickmeism. I feel like I'm the only woman on earth who wants to stay away from the degenerate male gaze and porn shit.
(The doll is made by Miura Etsuko, her art really depicts my mental state right now)

No. 315086

File: 1677844081163.jpeg (262.21 KB, 828x403, 1578485964122.jpeg)

>feels like I'm "cosplaying" being a good friend

Same. I'm so broken and scrutinise every interaction. This applies to my relationships with everyone though, not just my friends. I often feel like I'm missing something fundamental everyone else is just born with. I think my boyfriend stays with me because men will put up with pretty much anything as long as you f*ck them, but women pick up on stuff like that easier and I can't… 'fool' them I guess.

No. 315100

Obviously you are a narcissist lol.

No. 315104

>I often feel like I'm a lot better than other people/women in general
>I often ghost people on a whim because I get bored of them easily
I don't want to be mean since rhis is a vent thread and you're just being honest, but it may be this mindset holding you back from connecting.
Indeed it's rare to meet someone who will perfectly match your experience, but it can be satisfying socially to know people who aren't as good as you per se. There can be mutual respect for differences, mutual care, and you can make each other laugh.
Not making a demand that you change and force yourself to be unhappy, but I have also had this mindset and am much happier now that I eased up and opened my heart to people who are struggling with things. It's a relief once you get used to overriding the automatic judgement instinct.

No. 315106

Top kek. Some of you are hopeless.

No. 315110

You aren't the only one. Radfems, religious women and many others feel the same.

No. 315131

KEK please go to therapy before you inflict your narcissism on someone else. Having money and being attractive doesn't make up for not having empathy. Any woman who is kind and caring is better than you as a human being, even if they're broke, homeless and deranged.

No. 315155

Wow, most of the OP points apply to me. I don't know how many would relate, but realizing I was a lesbian and diagnosed with Autism as a teenager made me feel like I was "a guy inside" but also a "third gender" at the same time. I dealt with forms of abuse and bullying from men and women, which led to being a loner. I think due to having an early puberty, I had a sex drive that I thought was similar to "a guy" (for the record I hate porn and things like that, at most I would be curious about risque scenes in movies and read fics and doujins, draw stuff like that), so I used to have male friends and spend time in moid spaces like 4chan at a young age. But seeing the awful things they would say about women and lesbians scared me, and I stopped having male friends a long time ago. But in school I was suspected of being a lesbian and was outcasted by girls pretty badly for it.

Meanwhile, when I tried to find female spaces online (old school Tumblr was a godsend before the SJW politics took over), I notice a lot of women in them that I otherwise liked and was good friends with were bisexual or straight (which I have no problem with), so it led to this left out feeling of being "the only lesbian" in a lot of friend groups. Having mostly TIF friends as a young adult in fandom spaces also made me gender confused for a period because it planted a seed that these girls, who were otherwise like me, weren't girls anymore after all. I have a theory that this is how I developed gender dysphoria and wished I looked androgynous like I "felt mentally" (past tense beliefs), but before I peaked I always believed in the "Truscum" thing where it was just a mental disorder, so I considered similar to any mental illness/disability I have.

I try to find ways to meet lesbians in real life, and for years I read up on radical feminism and lesbian history, etc., but it kind of strained things for me worst. Therapists I talked to didn't know how to approach it either. I don't consider myself a "pick me" or see myself as better than most women - it's the opposite, honestly. I feel a longing for connection (platonic and otherwise) with women I notice other's have. I'm considered "cool" and likable in real life, but it's mostly masking my personality and being in the closet.

No. 315157

As a lesbian radfem, I find it very hard to relate to straight/bi women, even if they themselves also identify as radfem. It feels too often like they turn their brains off whenever it comes to their nigels or men in their lives, if not dropping their feminist viewpoints altogether the moment they get a boyfriend. It's kind of exhausting talking to female separatists and hardcore feminists who backtrack the moment some moid walks into the picture… I just can't understand how their morals can be so easily compromised, I guess. I can enjoy their company, but when they come to me about relationship plights, I just have to roll my eyes. It gets tiring. I do know a straight and febfem radfem and I love them both, but I've given up on trying my luck again.

No. 315164

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This is embarrassing to admit, especially here, but growing up I was pretty much the "anime club princess" stereotype (basically nlog egirl before egirls were a thing kek). I was autistic, into jfashion and nerdy hobbies. I was awful at communicating with my female friends; I'd often say something that comes out wrong and hurt someone's feelings or not catch subtle social cues. Once it became obvious I wasn't straight, I suddenly wasn't invited to sleepovers anymore because it would be "weird" and I couldn't compliment a friend without feeling like some sort of sex pest. I became a loner and went full weeb. I'd wear plush backpacks and stuff like picrel to school, to try to become a "character" and make it seem I was a happy, quirky loner. I relate to other anons in that I felt like some weird third gender pet except I tried to embrace it and push it as far as possible. I started hanging out with the sweaty gamer scrotes because we liked the same anime and video games and they also tended to be autists. But of course moids are inherently inferior and watching all my "friends" disappear once they realized they weren't gonna get their dick wet really blackpilled me, I learned to never trust men early kek

No. 315169

I wish I could write about my feelings and thoughts as easily as you all do..

No. 315180

Thank you nona

No. 315183

I think I have autism and adhd and I care about womens feelings and I'm so scared of saying the wrong things and being awkward so I just dont interact with them even though I really want to. I feel like an alien imposter around other women, like they can tell I'm not one of them. It was easier being friends with boys simply because I dont give a fuck about what they think or if I offend them, so I could be myself. With women I feel like I have to put on an act because I'm not good enough. I get too nervous and they can sense I'm a fake, but I'm just trying my best to be nice to them, I'm not trying to be fake or two faced.
I used to have a only female friends but we driftet apart and now I'm too nervous and out of practice to try to make new female friends. Like I used to be able to maintain friendships with women and have fun no problem, but I feel like I'm getting more retarded and I cant anymore

And its hard because I dont want to be friends with men anymore, I cant deal with them. So now I'm just by myself with my dog and thats my only friend.

No. 315196

Anon you took the words right out of my mouth. If a male friend decides I'm weird or cringe or embarrassing or whatever, so what?? But then that ironically leads to me being more vulnerable and more myself around them. Whereas I really want women to have a good opinion of me so I'm too reserved.

No. 315197

I'm one of the anons in this thread, and admittedly it was hard to write mine out, and didn't mention some things out of paranoia of being deanoned. But what motivated me to share is the possibility another woman in my place might see it and feel less alone.

No. 315211

I am a diagnosed autist. It's weird. Pretty much all of my IRL friends have been female and I never really made friends with men. However, I only have one friend who I am still somewhat close with at this point in my life. The rest have just become acquaintances I only talk to a few times year. I graduated a few years ago from university and most of my friends moved out hence why my friendships have dissolved.

I'd really like more female friends again but I've given up on the idea. Tried to get myself involved in the only local radfem group around my area but got ghosted during the vetting process. That rejection honestly really hurt because I really wanted to contribute and be around women who I could possibly relate to. As a result of that, I've become turned off by the idea of meeting anyone through feminist groups. Reading about radfem ideas really helped me overcome a lot of my internalized misogyny but I just don't know about the people who are deeply invested in that stuff now.

No. 315228

It’s not easy but writing it down and realising others relate to you is a beautiful experience

No. 315237

I have been trying to find friends as well but as far as it goes it only works out when they find me. Maybe you should just let yourself be nonna and the people you are looking for will find you themselves. Just post content somewhere, talk to people in the comments, and don't look like you're desperate, people avoided me when I was too noisy. I wish you the best nonna.

No. 315245

You're probably right. I'm definitely way too closed off due to a lot of bad experiences that made me lose trust in people. The idea of casually interacting with people online or even just posting on social media doesn't even cross my mind because I've been such an avoidant person for as long as I can remember. My avoidant nature is definitely something I need to overcome. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, nonna.

No. 315277

>As a result of that, I've become turned off by the idea of meeting anyone through feminist groups. Reading about radfem ideas really helped me overcome a lot of my internalized misogyny but I just don't know about the people who are deeply invested in that stuff now.
Yeah, I went through a period where I really respected radfems, and it resonated with me as an actual lesbian, but when I interacted with a lot of radfems it felt similar to the social ostracization I faced from girls growing up, right down to dealing with a shocking amount of lesbophobia. I agree with radfems on more things than libfems (when it came to the trans issue I was a "Truscum" anyway since I saw my gender dysphoria as a mental disorder), but ultimately what's considered radical feminist in 2023 was basic 101 feminism years ago. It's a very specific belief I don't fit into, besides the basic stuff like "women are female humans". I honestly think the political climate has made things harder for me to make friends and connect with others as a desisted Autistic girl. A decade ago I would be in internet spaces with and have friends with all different kinds of opinions, and we'd be able to openly discuss it without getting a call-out post calling us "TERF/nazi/etc." and crucified for thought crimes, but now a lot of so-called liberals utilize cult-like dynamics in their friend interactions. It's like I'm too liberal for the conservatives but too "conservative" for liberals. I've chatted with people online since I was a kid, so it's my most "natural" mode of communication, but I feel too terrified to be active on social media and with my hobbies anymore due to black-and-white political thinking.

No. 315282

fuck anons i feel like that too

No. 315302

I'm so glad to see this thread and know I'm not alone. I had this problem growing up and realized it's because I'm probably autistic so I couldn't relate to neither women nor men for a very long time. Add to that the fact most of the internet content I consumed as a teenager was made for and by males.
Thankfully, things are better know and I have two female friends, however I've realized something really interesting. They also didn't relate to women growing up and their other friends are mostly male. We are really similar in behavior and tastes, and this is purely coincidental. Even when me and one of the friends are feminine, we approach some situations that clearly reveal we were raised by male-oriented websites, and that female socialization didn't work at some places. We even share the feeling of isolation from other girls and normies.
I've come to terms with the fact I will only ever have female friends if they were in similar circumstances, the only downside is that we still have some pick me traits (one of said friends identifies as non-binary even).

No. 315317

Im so glad theres a thread and i really relate to this >>314644 I have male friends as they're easier to talk to and read and they dont get offended. The only issue i have is that my male friends can get quite flirty and sexual with me, luckily i removed those male friends and mainly kept the ones that respect my boundaries. My friend and I both long for a female friendship group and we started to form one, mainly with people who were closer to her than me. However since she passed away the group has broken apart (more like they dont want to hang out with me and avoids inviting me) To be honest i always struggle with female groups and communication, i just dont relate to them and feel like its fake. I think thats why I enjoy the one on one with my female friends though I do wish I had a group to go to events with.

I also try talking on different threads here but like anon says if you deviate from the main beliefs here then you get attack. So I keep it simple and reply here and there.

No. 315490

>shocking amount of lesbophobia
Could you elaborate? I would have assumed radfem groups have a lot of lesbians in them so I find that really strange.

No. 315569

Radfems that come at it from a point of objectification trauma basically equate us to men because we "fetishize women" OR they get butthurt when we tell them dating men while being a radical feminist does not make sense as one of the end goals of radfem is liberation from the male sex. There's not a lot of solidarity to be found between OSA women and lesbians tbh, it's good if we're co-protesting and blowing shit up together but once we get to our world views it comes crashing down. Het/bi radfems often get boyfriends eventually and drop feminism as a hobby. Lesbians though… we always live in the reality of oppression and do not get to bury our heads in the sand from being dickmatized. At some point it gets to be too much to deal with constantly being compared to men

No. 315636

AYRT, this different anon sums it up >>315569 but my experience with radfems also seem to put lesbians on a pedestal in a way, they assume that we must be more politically enlightened solely for our sexuality, but then freak out when a lesbian has normie views that aren't completely feminist. While libfem/TRA ideology isn't safe for lesbians at all, being a lesbian isn't inherently radfem/feminist either. Even in the 70s there was a clash between radical feminists and lesbians who lived the butch/femme dynamic because feminists saw that as "trying to act like straight people" and not a survival mechanism. I have trauma with both men and women and don't have a "team loyalty" to the latter because of that, so my sexuality always felt like something I was born with divorced from my social views, since I struggle with connecting to women despite being attracted to them. Sexuality doesn't have any inherent beliefs tied to it (I used to be conservative lmao, so I'd know). I've also dealt with a lot of "sexuality policing" by radfems who have trauma from hypersexual/porn culture (I have trauma with sex positivity too, for the record) for how we experience attraction and have sex; I ran into a lot of weird sex-repulsed polilez types who would get squeamish over sex talk and equate liking boobs to a fetish, or being into sex acts other than basic fingering/oral to be gross kinks on par with BDSM. Obviously not all radfems are like this and they're less lesbophobic compared to libfems who think we should just suck TIM dick, but having all sides assume that I must have certain opinions because of my sexuality is exhausting.

No. 315828

Has anyone had better luck connecting with women IRL after you stopped trying to "filter" your Autism symptoms? I feel like I lead women on when I pretend to act like a "normal girl" and basically play along.

No. 315830

Are you me? I have Asperger’s but I’m really good at faking being normal for like months and then I get tired and slowly drift away from anyone I was starting to be friends with.

No. 315842

File: 1678277366280.jpg (61.95 KB, 1080x1019, 6e18b27a52f312c6624ba0421c773d…)

I'm unhinged. No I won't elaborate, I just think I'm too cringe for male or female friendships. I wish I had a real irl frienship. Women scare me and I either end up feeling retarded or like I have to be too nice to them. I like when male frienships let me be retarded but it's hard to find a good balanced male friend. They always end up becoming shit after a while lol

No. 315871

I feel that. I seem to get along better with men online because they get my retarded and autistic sense of humor. However, I don’t get close to them nowadays and keep a distance because like you said, the friendships with them tend to turn to shit. Back when I was younger and more naïve, I had two men who basically used me as their therapist and it became unbearable.

No. 315879

For me I feel like a fundamentally boring person when I pretend to be normal, but my "real self" has less milestones than most women my age so I feel like a loser. I've tried to both make local friends and date as my "normal persona" and it makes me feel like that Spongebob meme where he's round, lmao.

I used to get along with guys better for that reason, but male friendships would go sexual half the time. I had guy friends randomly show me porn or hit on me after being in good terms for months. It really sucks as a lesbian since guys will think that's either hot or a challenge.

No. 315885

Does anyone else get paranoid that other women are being condescending when they probably aren’t? In middle school girls would bully me by being overly nice and condescending and treating me like a retard, so now when I get a compliment from a normie woman it feels like she’s being fake.

No. 315889

File: 1678295355839.png (575.22 KB, 960x638, 1671359128272.png)

samefag. This basically

No. 315893

File: 1678297575296.png (1.18 MB, 750x750, mmo5v2.png)

I hate how hard it's become for me to be fully comfortable around other women. I feel intimidated by them, like they're so much more advanced and have their shit together and they probably think I'm an awkward annoying weirdo. I feel gross and boorish next to them. It's probably also slightly autistic traits that make me insecure about missing certain social cues and not knowing how I'm expected to act.
The weird thing is, I wasn't always like this. I've always been a bit of a weirdo but I never had problems making female friends when I was younger. As a kid and throughout high school most of my friends were girls, and while I was insecure at times about not being as cool or pretty as them, it didn't prevent me from getting along fine.
It was only after high school that I lost contact with my female friends and developed this crippling feeling of inadequacy and alienation towards other women. It's like I unlearned how to act natural around them. With moids it's different, I feel like they're a lot more simple and direct so I don't second-guess how I should act around them. Besides that, it's only moids so it feels like the stakes just aren't as high and I don't care as much about what they think of me.

No. 315915

I hate this comic so much. I had a cringe NLOG phase but the catalyst for my NLOG phase was being literally told by other girls (and grown adult women ffs) "ew you aren't like us so you're probably a dyke, begone".

Like honestly how are young girls supposed to react to their peers and parents and teachers and media saying "real girls are XYZ, if you aren't XYZ you aren't one of us.".

No. 315931

DA, but seriously. Other girls branded me as "NLOG" to the point I almost became a TIF, it wasn't something I decided to be for the sake of being special. I'm thankful that as an adult, most grown women are out of that mindset, but not knowing how to make female friends during formative years makes trying to form new ones and trust women really difficult, even after therapy.

No. 315968

File: 1678312887176.png (870.68 KB, 1192x798, 34567876543.png)

Yeah I don't wanna defend the NLOG mindset because it's still cringe but it doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's like everyone wants to shit on the 'NLOG girl' but nobody wants to talk about how poorly autistic girls and GNC girls get treated before they hit that point.

No. 315970

Honestly you don't have to be autistic or/and gnc, just being different is enough for you to get ostracized and alienated during school. There's a reason why people joke about "teenage girls being brutal".

No. 315986

>I hate this comic
you didn't even see the epic edit I made to it did you

No. 315994

File: 1678329755046.jpeg (197.19 KB, 1080x1067, DF195A37-A88B-4848-8752-50A844…)

When I was in school I didn’t have real female friends because I was relentlessly bullied to hell and back by both girls and boys, maybe it’s because of the racial aspect that I don’t see it in a “maybe they think I’m a lesbian-way” since I was also very feminine in general even if I’ve always had a weird sense of style.
And maybe I got to trust women because the women of my family are trustworthy in general, and just sightly judgmental.
But I don’t really understand how is interacting with teenage girls an important thing, I spent many years completely alone at school, I only got to have a few “friendships” that were girls using me for the little money and nice things I had or that were lonely and desperate for some friends like me.
But I don’t think I would’ve felt any less depressed or awkward than I am right now.
Honestly? I appreciate the time I was alone even, better than having to deal with toxic losers that were too busy hoping they would get picked and picking apart each other like vultures in the middle of a desert.
I was a NLOG for a long while too, maybe I would’ve skipped that period of my life if I’ve had friends, or maybe it could’ve been worse to me even, with either shitty enabling friends or shitty critical friends.
Maybe it’s my autism speaking (kek) but I will never understand the people that get hung up on both stuff like “gender” or criticism from others, hell, why do we have to give a fuck about shitty people in general? Just mentally block them, change the intrusive thoughts with nice thoughts, remember that maybe you would be a cow with a thread in here, unable to be self-aware, if you were constantly chasing the validation from others.
Like, what’s everyone’s goals? Do you all think you will suddenly get along with all of the women of the world just because you’re a woman too? Or that you will just get a bunch of friends that are dying to hangout with you?
Sometimes you’re just surrounded by shitty people and you have to find a better place, sometimes it’s just that you hate yourself so much that you take whatever opinions from others like gospel, sometimes everyone is just too busy to deal with anyone else.
Seriously, traveling even to other cities or towns of your country may help you open up in many ways, if you have the money try traveling to other countries, if you can’t travel at all, get into volunteering work or try going to some place with free activities if possible.
Just going out and talking to other women will help you notice that not everyone is shitty or just hoping to get something out of you.
Like, maybe the issue isn’t that you don’t “relate” to other women, maybe you just haven’t met any nice person, or even a person that’s willing to have a decent conversation.
I have a friend that’s an enby and we can even talk about feminism and such, I’m not trying to change her and she knows she won’t ever change me, I listen to her and she listens to me.
We have extremely different opinions on many things, but I still love her very much and know that she’s a nice person. And what I mean to say with that is that even if you have completely different personalities, experiences and opinions, you can get along with other women because all you need to do is open your mind, and maybe know that you don’t really need to tell your whole life history to anyone, a friend isn’t a psychologist, nor a mom, a girlfriend or a wife. Like, you can have long lasting friendships even if they’re casual like talking from time to time or meeting every once in a blue moon, maybe you don’t need to relate to everything of a woman’s life, but she’s still a human like you and a woman, she has struggles that will always be similar to yours or even identical. I honestly feel like it isn’t that difficult to click with women once you’re a grown up and you find other women that don’t try to impress anyone or aren’t trying to act like shitty teenage movie characters.
And sometimes you can even find a way to get along with women that didn’t like you at first if you’re mature enough and she’s also mature enough to act like a woman (a real human with thoughts and feelings a.k.a. not a man)

No. 316008

Sometimes I feel like a man inside, and I think that feeling came from internalized homophobia as well as my autism making it impossible to socialize with other girls as a kid. I was fascinated with joining in with the girls at a young age but I always got ignored or pushed away, and just always ended up being friends with boys. Luckily, nothing bad ever ended up happening and all of my friends respect me, but it was honestly weird being told that they basically saw me as a fellow male, and even my own family members admitted to wondering if I was a "man inside" so to speak. I've recently come to enjoy a few things that are undeniably feminine, like fandoms and cringey fanfics and female-gaze oriented media. I think gender criticality made me feel more at peace with being a woman, since it's not something I have to perform or uphold, I'm just a woman because of biological fact and it put me at peace. It's honestly a miracle I didn't end up boarding the troon train in school since that stuff was just taking off when I was a teen in high school and hated everything about my body and being a girl. If I had even been a few years younger, I wouldn't have stood a chance.

No. 316023

> I'm naturally an extremely touchy-feely person and I love platonic hugs and platonic affection but I put on this fake personality where I'm stoic and unfeeling and hate physical contact and socializing. I feel like if I let a woman hug me or even be kind to me/be friends with me I"m doing some kind of rape-by-deception because she probably wouldn't consent to hugging me if she knew I was gay.
Very, very relatable. I've always been physical in showing my affection like hugs, pats, putting my hand on someone's shoulder etc. but ever since coming out as a lesbian I'm terrified of touching other women due to not wanting to come across as some creepy perverted lescel preying on straight women. Allowing them to hug me feels just like you described, rape by deception, which is so fucked up but this is honestly what a lot of us are socialized to view it as. Like a voice inside my head telling me "She would avoid touching you if she knew you were a dirty lesbo, don't exploit her ignorance!". It's so exhausting but you really never know when someone suddenly tries to use it against you and all lesbians in general. When I talked about this to my straight friends they couldn't understand what I was talking about and them saying "I would just be flattered if a lesbian had a crush on me, lol!" makes me feel even worse because it has the implications of lesbian love being just a confidence booster. Just rather say "I know you're not a bad person" or something along those lines.

No. 316025

Man this edit speaks to me on a higher level. From the "try a mommy-daughter makeover date" to "she would be so pretty if she just tried" to "the dyke will rape you in the locker room" one, that's the high school experience for a GNC girl in a nutshell. The original one has a point, but it really rubbed me the wrong way as someone who grew up trying to connect with other girls but got rejected and ostracized by them relentlessly due to being too autistic/antisocial to understand the complicated social games. It's such a fantasy that "other girls" would "just accept you if you gave them a chance" like the original was implying but in truth they would be closer to how they're portrayed as in this edit.

>It's like everyone wants to shit on the 'NLOG girl' but nobody wants to talk about how poorly autistic girls and GNC girls get treated before they hit that point.

Exactly. After years of being told that we're quite literally "Not like other girls" we suddenly get shamed for thinking we're different. How could we not? During our formative years we were told to go eat our lunch at the unisex bathroom and no girl wanted to be caught dead being associated simply because we were "not like other girls". Yet people want to gaslight us into believing that this was all inside our heads and it's actually us who are prejudiced and selfish. I'm glad this happens less and less the older I get since women start unlearning the retarded female socialization the closer they get to 40 but every now and then I come across the kind of woman who clearly has a bad opinion about me based on the homophobic mindset.

No. 316044

tbf the original comic was about girls who have got the wrong idea that other girls are inferior for being feminine or stereotypically girly, or rather for thinking that what they see in media about girls applies to real girls all the time. While the issue being discussed in this thread is mostly the other way around, about being rejected by the other girls for being perceived as weird. Sometimes the two things can combine, and sometimes other girls are actually nice even if you're different and it's just you who is a NLOG (obviously that doesn't apply to the nonnies in this thread, but that's what the original comic was about)

No. 316052


I think what aggravates me the most about this acronym is that even if you act super nice, even if you pretend to be interested in mainstream hobbies and never deride them, even if you say nothing to the effect of 'I am different from you', even if you only have positive things to say about other girls you'll still be branded as one based on some intangible 'other' quality people pick up on like blood in the water. As if expressing difference or feeling alienated immediately means you're 'trying too hard to be special'. Simply saying you have a blunt personality or mentioning a band you like- without even talking about other people, just yourself- will get you accusations. I'm sort of over trying to explain, with a million hedging qualifiers, that I'm different but not necessarily in a good way, that I love other women that femininity is great etc because it doesn't work anyway. I also know nobody who finds me weird or off putting would ever go to the bat for me. Maybe this acronym described a certain kind of girl at some point but similar to pick me it's just become a cudgel against anyone you don't like, it sort of feels like telling someone to get back in the bucket. I've seen many hundreds more accusations of being gasp not-like-other-girls than the actual thing. I also wish I were just 'putting it on to seem cool', because I haven't gotten anything out of being this way, not even simps.

inb4 wow anon you're so cool, you're not like other girls!

No. 316054

File: 1678367903184.jpg (38.68 KB, 384x406, 1510503130017.jpg)


While I find your edits funny, I hate that original comic so damn much, it was clearly made by someone who has never been bullied or had trouble fitting in. As if all you need for girls to accept you is to simply reach out, lmao good one.

No. 316055

for the other autists in the thread, hopefully some of this advice helps.
>don't try to force yourself into normie spaces
they don't want you there, and you don't truly want to be there either if you are masking. be selective about who you befriend and limit that to people you feel no need to mask around once you get to know them to a reasonable degree. my best friend isn't autistic, but she has silly and weird interests like me and we relate very well to each other.
>limit friendship attempts to people with similar interests
this kind of goes along the same lines as the first point, but trying to befriend someone you have nothing in common with is doomed to fail and only works for moids who are inherently sociopathic and do not care about their friends' personal lives. my best friend and i have common interests (reading, especially reading feminist theory, hatewatching reality tv shows, thrift shopping, we follow a lot of similar cows, visiting local cat cafes etc.) as well as separate hobbies that we try doing together (painting, cooking, baking, skating etc.) so there's usually some type of activity we can plan, even if it is just sitting in the same room and reading.
>go to different group opportunities in your community
if you are at an event for people who already have a similar ground with you (same hobby, same interest in volunteering, same university program, etc) it is easier to make an initial connection to someone because it builds in at least a primary layer of small talk. if the conversation can't keep itself going, it's a sign you may not be compatible.
>don't expect everything to happen all at once
when i was getting to know my best friend, it took around 3-4 times of hanging out for us to feel comfortable enough around each other to progress to a deeper friendship connection. sometimes we can expect everything to happen at once, but these kinds of relationships need time to grow!

No. 316056

I don't understand "normie' social cues anyways, it seems like, at least in my experience, girls are way too comfortable with one another if you're not percieved as gay. Like just touching on your friends is common if they think you're straight? I think it's all for male validation and the fact we live in a pornsick culture, but either way, it goes over my head. One of my "friends" insisted on trying to rile her various boyfriends up in front of me. She was vicious in tearing me down appearence wise. I know she had a bad home life, etc, and all that jazz, I'm not really looking back at my teen years with spite, more like, I just don't fucking get you people. I can't tell you how many times a girl did some out of pocket stuff to me. I was never receptive and got angry once and slapped her, but she didn't seem to understand why I'd be upset, like is that normal behavior? I doubt it. Then again, this is coming from girls I knew who would openly brag about some guy touching their asses in the hallway or did all kinds of things just to tease guys. Then make fun of me because I didn't have that happen to me? I remember one scenario in my early 20s where I was hanging out with a group of girls and one of them was trying to get me to makeout with her in front of these guys and I just scooted away and looked at her funny. We were all drinking but I just don't get it. Then I get ostracized from this group because I don't wanna partake in these weird ass social rituals of trying to do whatever the hell they're doing? This has been my problem personally. I have managed to have made some friends who understand personal boundaries but like, I don't know if it's an autistic thing or I'm just actually just a person who understands you can't just fucking do that shit to people? Like you never know what's someone's been through, don't touch people, weirdos. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this kind of behavior, but it was very common in my youth.

No. 316058

thank you anon. finally something practical.

No. 316072

>As if all you need for girls to accept you is to simply reach out
It really depends on where you live. People are nicer to weirdos like us in some place more than others

No. 316084

It sounds like you have common sense ..? and your friends sound like psychopaths..? no offense. I never even had friends do that to me growing up, and if I did I would would have ruthlessly stonewalled them. I hate cheap attention seeking behavior. That's all it honestly sounds like.

No. 316100

Even though a good chunk of my girl friends have become gendies I don't want to abandon them

I feel so vindicated with this, this is basically similar to a bunch of invisible rules I came up with even though some people on LC to get over making friends based off of similar interests, I don't know how to.
As much as I want to be friends with 'normies' there's something about me that puts a distance between us and I have no idea what it is outside of me being socially awkward/nervous/anxious

No. 316142

File: 1678407519932.jpeg (104.01 KB, 1440x1440, 1655771130832.jpeg)

I agree with this. It takes more than just dressing tomboyish and liking pokemon to be a full on "other" "weirdo". I feel like the girl in the comic just had different hobbies and didn't like wearing skirts. She's not a full blown retard like me whose weirdness sticks out very much. And it's not like I want to be othered on purpose, I just don't bother with people anymore.

That's also true.

No. 316252

I feel like I need to put on an act around women. I need to guard my tone and expression. It is just too much effort. Due to how normie girls were socialized, they are stricter about social rules and structures than males are. They put lots of weight on tone, expression, conventions. If you commit a faux pas, they ghost you.
Around males I can be myself. Especially on the internet, where they assume I am male, and the "courting the female" dynamic is not a factor.
In real life I was very lonely; didn't find women relatable (they didn't find me relatable either), and with men it was a guessing game of "do they like me, or are they just humoring me?".
Thankfully I found girls who weren't so uptight about socially conforming, but that wasn't until I became an adult. And by "girls who don't care about conforming" I don't mean typical "outcasts", like in high school. If anything, the weeb tumblr yaoi crowd is extremely malleable by outside influence. Freaky hair and mass-produced "alternative" appearance isn't a signifier of independent thought. All my highschool friends trooned out except one male who got addicted to drugs.

No. 316310

I feel this. As a kid I was the 'weird, funny one' in my friend group. I lost most of them around puberty when their looks and interests started changing and mine didn't (it didn't help that I never grew boobs- I'm still an A cup). I couldn't relate to girls anymore, even though on the inside I wanted to be just like them. I want to wear dresses, do my hair, make up, act "girly", but it just doesn't come natural to me. I'm tall, lanky, awkward and probably autistic, but my true vision of myself is sweet, bubbly and feminine. What sucks even more is I have a younger sister that turned out to be exactly what I wanted. She's short, cute, girly and everyone loves her- and the thing is I saw her grow up and naturally develop into that person. That never happened to me.

No. 316401

Some cashier (probably high school age) once said to me “you’re so pretty, like that’s not even fair” and I still wonder if she was fucking with me lol

No. 316402

I’ve been struggling with this for awhile now. I have no sisters and I’d say my mom is my best friend, so I’m terrified for when she goes. I borderline simp for certain women online in hopes they’d want to be my friend but then don’t even know what I’d do if they ever noticed me. This actually played out once when some girl who’s kind of e-famous told me irl that she loved my Smiths sweatshirt and loves Morrissey and I was like a deer in the headlights. Fucking embarrassing.

I can hold one-on-one conversations with people at work usually but they never develop into anything deeper. It always feels like when I work with a group of girls, I’ll seem to fit in well enough but never get invited to hangout outside of work while some of them become best friends. It just feels like I never meet other women I naturally click with and feel at ease with. The second I think maybe I can become closer friends with a person, my anxiety spikes and I worry about coming off as creepy somehow. I just want a girl friend who loves the same music as me and isn’t a shitlib because we’d have highly conflicting opinions in many areas lol.

No. 316528

Yes. I can’t accept any kind of compliment, I assume they’re just fucking with me or being backhanded. I know logically they can’t all be like that but I’m very distrustful and suspicious in general.

No. 316530

File: 1678590349972.jpg (15.49 KB, 1104x92, soulmates.JPG)

>tall, lanky, awkward
if you were gay, this anon (picrel) from /ot/ would be your soulmate kek
I'm really ugly (I don't have dysmorphia or any weird shit like that, it's objective) and a couple times popular girls have done this to me and it's literally worse than being called hideous to your face. The obvious pity and assumption that you're stupid enough to believe it is what really pisses me off. Thankfully since I stopped slathering on makeup and dressing girly (never liked it anyway), no one does this to me anymore, I guess since it indicates I am not trying to fit into social standards so they don't think they'll make my poor little ugly day by lying to me about my looks.
If you're not objectively ugly, they probably aren't lying so don't worry about it. Although I still think it's a weird thing to say to a stranger.

No. 316531

File: 1678590569231.jpg (80.21 KB, 540x759, mm.jpg)

It makes me so happy to know that another anon ITT loves Morrissey. Whenever I Mozpost on lc now it warms my heart so much to get replies, partly because I've become very isolated irl, losing my online friends due to mental illness and the ones who remain I don't really trust to not judge me for liking Problematic Steve kek. I keep even my most basic gc beliefs secret from the online acquaintances I have left because at this point I just can't deal with any more isolation, but more than anything I want friends I can be honest with.

No. 316587

File: 1678624325965.jpeg (41.69 KB, 640x800, 9DC4C681-168A-476A-A49B-D5E531…)

Ayrt Moz lovers of the world, unite and take over! I feel like the general reaction to liking the Smiths and Morrissey is “who?” at best or like you said, you risk a negative reaction from people who know who he is but hate him lol. I hope someday we can find some Morrissey loving friends, nonnie.

No. 316763

what do i have to do to get girls my age to take me seriously as a capable adult? one told me i give off granddaughter energy. another said i feel like her little sister. i'm the eldest daughter in my family and i've never been treated like this until i got to college. in high school i was icy as hell and known as a bitch by the guys. the girls loved me because i'd give them homework answers and listen to them complain about guys and each other. nobody treated me like anything other than capable. it's like a complete 180 now. whenever i ask for directions girls go out of their way to help me, like i'm some lost little sheep incapable of understanding verbal instructions. when i ask questions people will act like i'm asking a completely different, much stupider question. i'm often assumed to be less intelligent than i am. girls overexplain things to me that are mindnumbingly simple. and it's not just them being nice because they don't talk to each other like that, even the ones they aren't close with. it's not a matter of me being a stranger to them. it's like something clicks for them that doesn't for me. i'm treated like a child for having a soft voice and shy demeanor, things that i was taught were desirable in my culture. i feel insane. i literally don't do anything but sit there and they'll compliment me like i'm stupid enough to believe them. i've literally never gotten compliments on my appearance until i got to this place. one day during my freshman year of college a girl came up to me after i got in my car to tell me she thought i was pretty. i was so happy until i thought about it seriously and realized that she couldn't even see my face since i was wearing a covid mask. although i did take it off in the car before she came up to me. but how could she have seen my face from that distance? it haunts me. i want to believe she meant it but what if it was one of those stupid positivity challenges to brighten someone's day? of course i obsessed over her compliment for a week before i realized the truth which crushed me. i'm not the most feminine woman at the moment. i give off conservative upbringing vibes like crazy and im naive as hell. is there no choice for me but to start showing more skin? cut and dye my hair?

No. 316780

Be more direct. Make more eye contact, if you're not doing that already. When they're answering a question you didn't ask, interrupt them and say 'Great, but I asked X'. Don't be afraid to sound like a bitch.

No. 316796

>I feel like I need to put on an act around women. I need to guard my tone and expression. It is just too much effort. Due to how normie girls were socialized, they are stricter about social rules and structures than males are.

No. 316919

Hikkimori here. I'm trying to get better and trying to socialize with other women. I've isolated myself so much that I don't have anything to talk about. Is there some advice anyone could give me about making small talk for introverts? I'm really tired of all the silence.

No. 316921

For the most general advice, most people love talking about themselves. Ask things like what did they do in their free time recently, encourage them to elaborate (they mention idk, watching a movie, ask if they liked it, and then what they liked about it), stuff like this.

No. 316955

I know i am every normies worst nightmare. I literally have a lot of the negative aspie symptoms, particularly low empathy, extremely narrow topics of interest and i literally cannot hide my disinterest when i am talking with them and can't mask for shit, so most of them think i am an asshole. I have given up on trying to have a normie lifestyle. I was kind of upset when i read my report kind of indicated i was a horrible person at risk of being a druggie/alcoholic if i touched it even once or having legal problems (both more to do with adhd, i feel like that's ruining my life 10x more than autism but idk). Idk, i think reading this thread has made me at peace with this because i almost considered rage quiting getting treatment because i felt like the therapist would be judging me the whole time. I just want to be able to fake being a pleasant enough of a person so i can have a stable job and take care of myself, I also need to seperate myself from my parents asap to tame my persecution complex i have gained from the fact that they always bullied me.

I really like just sticking to discord and anonymous places for socialisation for the most part. It would be nice to have a single person who cared about everything i cared about irl and we could hang out maybe once a month, but if this doesn't happen i won't be sad.

I felt that way when i was young mainly because i got bullied for my appearance a lot. Nowadays compliments do absolutely nothing for me, just a fart in the wind. I have become increasingly more self-centred due to being isolated and only care about what i think and i am very mean to myself tbh.

No. 316969

i really want to have a group of female friends i can be comfortable around. but i put women on such a pedastal and 'other' them i never know how to act around them. i don't care what men think about me so i can say whatever comes into my head, and it works and i can relax. but as soon as im left alone with a girl i completely blank, i hate it

No. 316973

I spent most of my middle school/ high school /college life not really interacting with girls all that much. it didn’t help that between 14-16 i pretended to be a boy on VF and i spent all my time online being a fucking moron. the girls in my hometown also thought i was gay (they were half right) and avoided me and when they did talk to me i didn’t know how to keep a conversation going because it felt like i couldn’t socialize the same way they did. all i could talk about were stupid things that were considered nerdy back then and i also made the mistake of bringing up weird shit without realizing it was weird. i also think i come off as kind of intense because i don’t really talk a lot and tend to stare…. anons i’m 29 i want more girlfriends so bad even with the friendfinder thread i can’t seem to connect with the girls i add and talk to am i just retarded

No. 317006

File: 1678880011423.jpeg (27.86 KB, 500x561, D47EBCA7-B45B-4212-BD21-0D72F0…)

this sounds dumb but seeing all of you share similar stories to mine makes me want to just invite all of you for tea or something, I wish we could all be friends

No. 317151

My life is filled with catty and bratty women and all they do is gossip and pull shit-tier Mean Girls moves. Unfortunately I have to deal with them because they are in laws/ or coworkers.
I guess I want to ask, how do you handle the bullies in your life? How do you circumvent the gossiping. I dont know why, but my in laws are terribly mean and spiteful towards me.

No. 317212

Could some of you give examples of situations where you felt alienated from other girls?

No. 317339

can I be your friend? I love it when women speak their minds unfiltered.

No. 317388

I live in a conservative area, so I've never really met another lesbian in the wild. I don't have a problem with OSA women as a long as they're not lesbophobic, but I often have a fear that the nice straight woman I'm friends with will turn on me the moment she finds out. I was also forcibly outed in school once, and I had straight girls who already disliked me for being "weird" turn on me even more and scream "EW" to my face. Being roped into "boy talk" before that happened as a kid/teen and having girls show me pictures of their boyfriends or celebrity crushes and asking me if I think they're hot too, and being asked if I have a husband and kids as an adult, will always be deeply uncomfortable.

Femininity is another thing I've been nitpicked on, despite not being masculine either. It could be because I'm autistic, but I only wear a little bit of makeup and do light skincare to take care of my acne problems, I never understood the point of full-on painting your face and shaving.

My weight has always been a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing too. I was skinny as a child and would get inappropriate comments about how I was "too" skinny and how gross that was, but when I started puberty (earlier than other girls, too, which was also alienating) I got chubby. Girls assumed I was just a lazy pig who couldn't stop eating, when I rarely eat and had a medical issue I couldn't afford a doctor for.

I'm sure there's more, but when it comes to childhood stuff, that's what I remember.

No. 317394

In my teens I felt like I failed as woman and it unfortunately made a great impact on me as I grow up.
For starters, I was ugly. Like, really ugly. I started to grow early and was the tallest in my class (taller than all of the boys) and was pretty chubby on top of that. Not only that, but I never grew boob, they are still AA. You can imagine how I looked. Built like a fridge, with acne and probably very sweaty. Didn't help that I always wanted to dress masc, but my mom religiously controlled my looks, so my only choice was wearing trashy track suits every day (that I initially had for gym class) when mom wasn't looking. If not, she forced me to dress "feminine" so I looked as elegant as an elephant in a tucky frilly dress. I also hated my long hair and wanted to cut it down, but my parents were furious at the suggestion, so I just ignored styling my hair and always wore a tight ponytail, which for some reason was hilarious to my classmates.
Not only that, but I always had very masculine hobbies. Like, joining the boys and going out to the fights after school. Or ganging up with my neighbors and going out to the other neighbors to bully local kids. Or exploring abounded building for the chance of finding an old cache of gas masks. That sort of thing. And video games. Lots of video games. My dad hated it and in fact smashed my laptop when I was played late into the night.
Guess all that made the class clown, didn't help that I never grew up and stopped being interested in kiddy stuff like cartoons and video games. I'm also not a lesbian, but never had an interest in boys, in fact I was a devout husbandofag for my whole life.
Because of all that, I never fittef in with anybody. For girl nerds, I was too crude and mannish. For normie women, I was a fucking joke. Boys ignored me after puberty (I wasn't pretty).
It all was a long time ago, and now I can pass as a normie, but I still can feel the impact of what happened to me in my teens.

No. 317412

Your parents sound so mean. Especially smashing your laptop
>bully local kids
If you actually bullied kids for fun wtf

No. 317459

I mostly get along with women, except for the fact that most of them are sexually submissive towards men and it makes me lose respect for them. I can't understand why a woman would let a man walk all over her, and I think it's extremely pathetic. It always disappoints me when eventually a woman I'm friends with starts talking about her sex life and it's all about how much of a pickme she is. Does anyone else feel similarly?

No. 317535

yeah, most women my age are and having babies with the nastiest most useless moids i've ever seen (although they're all nasty and useless) and it disgusts me so much I can't even befriend them.

No. 317539

It's truly weird af being a non-submissive straight woman. I can't wrap my head around how rare it is. I've learned to be tolerant of that side of women, but it does leave me feeling lonely. >>317459

No. 317548

I feel like I'm too self aware for the true "cringe and free" types but I'm not refined enough for more normal types and they end up looking down on me
All of my friends would either be stacy types that treated me like an ugly pet/emotional support animal and abused me, or demented girls that acted much younger than their age or had other antisocial behavior like writing friend fiction about our classmates, bad hygiene, etc
Maybe I'm just snooty and too quick to judge other women or I reject them mentally before I feel like they can reject me and they pick up on that. My self esteem is higher than it used to be but I'd like to interact with other women in more of a social middle ground not feeling such a disparity
Also I really am not the type to force something when me and a friend don't mesh if I find somebody annoying or stupid I just can't be their friend. I've tried to suck it up and just tell myself I'm being too mean but eventually I just get fed up and ghost

No. 317554

you're describing me to a T. I'm too "weird" (mostly due to interests and looks) for normies, but too normal (well-adjusted socially) for the real freaks. If you ever find a solution let me know.

No. 317575

It was mostly like a game, where we all go out to fuck around with other gangs of kids. I never picked up on innocent kids, just the guys who were up to it. Sure, you can get a bloody nose, but it's something you signed up for and knew the consequences. On other hand, we had nasty bullies who picked up on ugly or shy kids. Now they were hated by all.

No. 317583

That is always infuriating too.
I honestly don't think it's that rare, but probably most non-submissive women aren't that open about their sex life. I mean, vanilla women get laughed at, judged, and are called prudes. And if you like being in control other women will judge you too because "what about the poor innocent moid!!"

No. 317584


I trooned out at 13, wore a binder/buzz cut etc which lead to girls not wanting to be around me, which I found very validating. I eventually realised that I was 5'3 and would never pass so I went back to dressing like a girl. It sort of helped on the surface, girls will compliment my outfit or accessories sometimes, but it all goes to shit the second I open my mouth and my spergy unfiltered personality comes out. I feel sort of lied to, I thought if I lost weight and dressed feminine I would be accepted, though I like how I look.

No. 317637

>It sort of helped on the surface, girls will compliment my outfit or accessories sometimes, but it all goes to shit the second I open my mouth
Kek same for me. Throughout my life, I’ll have women approach me and compliment my style or makeup, but past the initial superficial meeting, it doesn’t work out. I guess my appearance is interesting enough but then we have nothing in common and they learn how socially awkward I am.

No. 317835

you girls are alright. for the longest time i felt out of place for being nonconforming, too passionate, brutally honest, failing my gendered socialization etc. but lurking here makes me realize i'm not alone and there are others who share my views. thanks lolcow!

No. 318032

Kek also same

No. 318042

Complimenting is something women do to break the ice, it doesn't mean much but if you react weirdly, you'll make it awkward.

No. 318052

nta but i can heavily relate to most of this. i wouldn't call myself super well adjusted socially (and i have very good reason to suspect i've got a little bit of the tism) but at the same time, the social rejects are… too much for me. i feel like im too autistic for normies and too normie for autists, and this applies not only to my personality traits but to basically everything kek. i feel like if it weren't for my close friends being the same way i'd go insane thinking there's something wrong with me

No. 318055

Oh, this thread is my home.
Context: I'm waiting for 'tism testing. I've always felt most comfortable having one friend at a time. My best friend from age 6 to 21 was male (gay though) and it was pretty much like a sibling relationship, we got on each others nerves but were always there for each other. After that my designated friend would be whatever boyfriend I had at the time (I'm 28 now).
Problem: I've always really keenly felt the lack of female friendship in my life, but I absolutely spill my spaghetti any time there's a woman I find interesting.
I made one friend in the last 5 years who I really connected with but I was so worried about coming on too strong that I've been ignoring her (I watched this happen to her with another of her female friends, she had to essentially break up with her because she got crazy clingy). I feel like shit about it all the time and I miss her. I'm almost positive she misses me too, which makes me feel worse, but I don't know how to handle being scared of rejection. I feel like I'd take a female friend breakup so much worse than any sort of male breakup, because male attention is ultimately kind of expendable to me. It hurts when I dream about her. It doesn't help that we're both bisexual and have been attracted to each other at various points.

No. 318176

My main problem is that I can't find female friends with similar interests and when I do they're usually a "he/him" or "non-binary", you know the drill. So the second I do meet a girl with similar interests who isn't drinking the gender coolaid, I get too hopeful and I worry I come across as desperate. I find it hard to be friends with people who I don't share at least one interest with, so most of my friends are guys. When I go to spaces for my hobby IRL or online they're usually full of men, sometimes when there is a girl there we do get along but it never becomes a deeper friendship.

Also, I will probably be disliked for saying this here and I understand why but from my experiences women do tend to be more judgemental than men. Sometimes, this is a good thing, Many times, it is a bad thing. I feel like men are generally more accepting of weirdos no matter their gender for better and for worse. It overall makes me more hesitant to open up to women until we're comfortable together. It's the hedgehog dillema I guess. I'm afraid of opening up to most women and being met with cruelty, but because I don't open up I won't ever get a close female friend. Am I making sense?
I feel like I always have to remain too, idk, professional around other women I guess. I have to always behave the way they expect me to and act how they want me to. This is both a combination of past past experiences and self-inflicted. I want women to like me. Because I don't care about men liking me I feel more free to act myself… which ironically is what develops genuine friendships.
I'd do many things to get a female best friend who I feel I can act myself around, talk about almost anything to whenever and share our interests together.

No. 318222

I always say thanks and offer tips on how to do makeup if they ask. Usually I’ll even compliment something back to be nice. I wouldn’t think that’s awkward at all. Still, I can just never get past that initial “ice breaker” with women, maybe they expect me to keep the conversation going myself, but I’m not all that talkative which I know is another problem in and of itself.
>I'm afraid of opening up to most women and being met with cruelty, but because I don't open up I won't ever get a close female friend.
You hit the nail on the head anon. And I agree, in my experience women tend to be more judgmental about someone’s interests, hobbies, and even taste in music. My interests aren’t strange or niche to men (because it’s more common among them), but normie women look at me like I’m a weirdo when I tell them. It’s not a good feeling being judged whenever you try to open up, so I usually don’t say much about myself until I’m comfortable enough around the person. Feels like I’m stuck in a catch-22. Can’t make friends if I don’t “open up”, but I won’t “open up” until I feel comfortable somebody, but that somebody probably won’t feel comfortable with me until I do “open up”.

No. 318227

Omg I found just the thread for me. I always felt like I couldn't fit in with other girls/women/peers my age. This is for multiple reasons mostly because I am disabled and use a wheelchair and I have a "cute" face and look girly but I have mostly nerdy interests like video games/anime/fanfic. I feel like a lot of girls treat met like a pet or a little kid that couldn't do anything for myself. I thought it would change when I met other disabled girls/women but no I remember in high school me and another girl in a wheelchair got paired for an assignment and we didn't get along due to opposite personalities yet because of us working together everyone thought we would be best friends. Like they would ask me questions about her like we were friends like if I was going to her birthday party I would say "No she isn't my friend." which they would be shocked "huh? she isn't" it was so awkward.

I also met a couple of other disabled women but they are moid loving pickmeshas so it gets frustrating around them because I only date women.

No. 318241

seriously, what is the 'other' quality? how do they sniff it :(

inb4 hygiene joke. externally, e.g. if you looked at a photo of me, you would think I were a basic, socially-adjusted person. I don't dress weird, I know how to do my makeup and hair, not fat, etc. but as soon as I have to interact people get the impression of 'weird.' I know social rules, I add tone to my voice, be friendly, small talk, try to make appropriate facial expressions, have good posture, generally try not to seem like a socially unadjusted autist hikki but still come across as 'weird.'

I wonder if it's just best to be unapologetically oneself… I generally like who I am and for some reason situations where I'm less tense (e.g. drunk, girls are really nice to me and genuine-seeming at a club but that might also be because they're drunk), as a kid before I developed much self awareness, or mental hospital when I was young (but maybe not a good metric for evaluating social success) have been the only times where I haven't just been called weird behind my back. For me, it's less of a blow to be judged as weird if I'm being genuine, than if I'm trying my best to assimilate. However, I find it extremely difficult to try not to mask. It's like an automatic customer service voice/face, except I'm clearly not even very good at it (I think I come across as stiff, stilted)

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