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No. 230474

This is a thread for biologically born women who decided to transition or play a part in the gender scene at some point and since have decided to stop. This thread welcomes women who chose to take hormones, have surgeries done, crossdress as a man, live as a man (on the internet/irl), or simply once thought to transition and then refrained from it no matter how far/not far into the process you were. Women who self identified as nonbinary or similar can also join the discussion.

Talk about your journey from transition to detransition and how it is going for you now.
>What made you do it?
>What made you go back?

Anyone is welcome to participate.

No. 230481

I used to want to transition but now I'm just a tomboy.

No. 230484

Wonder if my theory that most fakebois suffered some sort of CSA or were raped at some point is true? It feels like a coping mechanism for serious trauma.

No. 230487

I’m prepared for the inevitable infighting and unsavory attention from the Twitter or Reddit world. woot woot.

No. 230492

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This will be interesting to read, don’t be shy nonnies, I’m curious.

No. 230493

tbh most fakebois suffered CSA and also have eating disorders. anything they can do to escape their bodies.

No. 230496

Never transitioned physically but experienced the mental start of it I guess? I can echo what nonna said above about csa/sexual abuse being a factor into females wanting to transition, that was one of the factors for me. I think it also plays into how femininity, or just being female in general, is perceived negatively in society:

I did go through a lot of confusing thoughts as a teen girl, and tried adopting more masculine mannerisms e.g making my voice deeper, dressing more boyish, more 'masculine' behaviour and it felt validating for a short time because I realised that boys were less likely to bother me in school whether that be just bullying me or trying to date me (I was very awkward and didn't understand/was scared about dating males so I think this just spurred more urge to become a boy?).
For whatever reason, I genuinely enjoyed that change and it did trigger a lot of "well I guess I could just start dressing and becoming like a boy" thoughts in my head, although I never necessarily hated feminine things either, but at the same time I couldn't achieve and never have been able to achieve the fucked up standards of "ideal femininity".
I got older and started being a bit more feminine but I've always got these thoughts in the back of my head that say "this will be a lot easier if you could just present as a male, and it's not like you look or feel super womanly anyway, so just do it."

Fortunately back in 2009ish in my area, transitioning was never really heard of or just something that middle-aged men do in funny British comedy shows, so I didn't have access to the hormones or surgery etc. I'm glad it turned out this way. I've came to realise I have and always have varying levels of BDD thanks to basically growing up online and my sexual trauma, and I think BDD and the obsessive part of that disorder played a huge part in me thinking that I'd just be better off if I could become a man, because "man" meant control or power in my head.
The sexual trauma also made me feel like MUCH less of a woman, especially as I could not relate to other female friends and their sexual experiences. I developed vaginismus and a great fear of intimacy/being vulnerable - again, another thing that just sort of proved to me why shouldn't I become male? I thought I'd probably feel much more powerful and 'in control' if I was the 'dude' in the situation I guess kek.

The sole thing that turned me back from this was dropping liberal feminism and discovering radical feminism, honestly. Or just good genuine feminist figures in general that helped me learn that enjoying stereotypical masculine things, or having sexual trauma, or vaginal conditions, doesn't make me 'less' of a woman and I didn't need to become anything else. Currently just trying to get in shape and focus on health to alleviate my BDD, and I'm just learning to accept that I'm a varied human being and that's alright. Finding it hard to come to terms with lots of 'womanhood' experiences being robbed from me, but there's always tomorrow.

I do genuinely believe that if I was born later and grew up during the height of gender identity/trans stuff, I would have transitioned though. Whenever I see tiktoks of people saying "If you enjoy masculine xyz, you are probably trans!" It makes my skin crawl as it's like those BDD thoughts I had come to life.

Sorry for the huge novel, there's so much other stuff but I didn't want to ramble on for too long. If any other nonnas experienced something similar I would love to hear it.

No. 230500

I'm an autistic butch who grew up bullied, ostracized and made to feel disconnected from my body due to medical issues. I entered puberty at the age of 8 and it opened the gates to hell. I experienced sexual abuse at 11 by a male schoolmate and was ogled by old men. People constantly made comments on my body. Four times a year I was taken to a clinic for children going through precocious puberty and had my blood taken and was then stripped naked and had my breasts compared to a chart to decide how far along I was to reach sexual maturity. It was traumatic. My growing body caused me so much pain already and to top it off it was treated like a disease.

My town was a highly homophobic, insular little shithole of a place and I grew up hating myself, hating my body, desperately trying to fit in and constantly feeling cut off from myself. I believed there was a "true" me inside, a genderless perfect non-sexualized version who wasn't expected to be sexually available to men. Someone others could care about. Someone I could maybe like instead of the constant fuck-up I was. I dreamed of cutting my breasts off, I self harmed and I wanted a completely smooth, genderless body. At 18 I started claiming I wasn't a woman and as time went on I started to fully believe this. For many years I felt like a wisp soul caught in a flesh suit and the feeling of disconnect and despair only grew. The dysphoria I had started experiencing as a young girl grew with each passing year. I came out as nonbinary and started planning for a double mastectomy and researching gender nullification surgery. I hated my female voice, my breasts, my hips, my genitals, my ovaries and uterus, the way my body stores fat, my bone structure, my waist, my female facial features, everything. Everything about me designating me as female I hated and felt so wrong about, even though I had started to come to understand that those were the same characteristics I'm capable of attraction to. In spite of feeling so ostracized and separated from other women, I couldn't deny it anymore: I'm not attracted to males at all.

After a few years of planning and identifying out of the biological reality of my sex, I just sort of crashed. I had doubts, and even in spite of being "not a woman" I still felt the same pressure to conform to femininity and heterosexuality, the same discomfort with my self and my body. I fell into a depression and my dysphoria kept skyrocketing. I started to slowly reidentify as a woman and started focusing entirely on dealing with my dysphoria instead; researching alternative ways than transitioning to deal with it. It's been some years since and today I've come to accept myself fully. I know who I am and what I am, and that is a dysphoric autistic homosexual gnc woman. I'm still working hard every day to handle my dysphoria and it's not easy, but the more safety and pride I take in myself, the less I try to fit in and conform, the more I stand up for myself and the more I treat my body as part of me and focus on what it can do for me (rather than like a disconnected garment I'm just wearing to fit in/be pretty) it has helped immensely with dealing with it all. Today, I am happy that I didn't get that double mastectomy after all, even in the moments where I wish I was born male.

No. 230502

could be. my other theory is that they watched too much yaoi during middle school.

No. 230504

>Sorry for the huge novel, there's so much other stuff but I didn't want to ramble on for too long.
Please if you wanna post more you are welcome to do so!

No. 230517

NTA but I think it could be both. Like there are some FtMs who were severely traumatized, and some others who transitioned because they were fujos + tomboys who suffered minor emotional trauma from being repeatedly told they should be more "feminine" by their loved ones and criticized because of it. Also autism is definitely a factor for some.

Same and I got genuine depression due to it. I got over it in high school or later, I don't remember.
For me it was a mix of being a tomboy since early in my childhood (and kinda shamed or being seen as weird for my tomboyish behavior and tastes) and a massive coombrain fujo (coincidentally in middle school, like the other anon said). Thank fuck none of my therapists ever encouraged me to transition. One of them, who helped me during that phase, did quite the opposite and told me that I'd stop wanting to become a guy when I found myself a partner or something like that.
Now I feel comfortable being a woman who's a bit masculine, I'm fine with dressing in more conventionally feminine clothes from time to time when I feel like it, and I've stopped being obsessed with replacing my actual genitals that work just fine with a fully functional penis (which is obviously impossible), now I'm happy to find ways to get sexual stimulation with my actual body.

Although I think I'm still a bit autoandrophilic since sometimes I'll look at myself in the mirror and imagine myself as a guy with long hair and think I'd be pretty hot, and want to wear some clothes that make me feel like a guy I'd be attracted to (such as button up shirts, or jeans with a belt and boots). Is that bad or am I just attracted to the clothes/style? Because I believe that I'd find anyone (male or female) who wears that stuff sexy.

No. 230535

I was a fakeboi for a long time, starting in my teens, around 15 or something until my early 20's. I'm embarrassed it lasted so damn long but at the time I got any doubts, the american trans community became a lot more vocal and censoring. I'm not american myself but you know how it goes for other countries, anything americans do, we follow suit. It was hard to ask questions before, but around 2012 it was simply not possible without getting accused of being a covert TERF. I didn't know what that was but I knew it was bad. You weren't encouraged to look into it either, no need to hear the other side, listening to the boogeyman terves is the same as giving the nazis a platform, "trust me." They knew best.

For the record, I am desisted, not detrans.
I didn't transition because in my country things weren't that easy, but I seriously thought about it and my life plans mostly revolved around transitioning.
My country's bureaucracy seriously saved me from fucking up my life even more.

As a kid I was severely bullied, mostly by boys who constantly mocked my looks. Things like that time when some boys were talking loud enough that I could hear about this bet they were making where the loser would have to kiss the ugliest girl, and that would be me. This other kid, during 6th grade I think telling me "you ain't so ugly after all" while brushing his hand on my thigh. He said it as if it was a funny joke.
There was this time I was with some girls who I thought were my friends, and these high schoolers were judging us, playing this game where they would point at each of us and say how hot we would be when we grew up, giving us numbers, 0 to 10. This was 5th grade. They gave high scores to the other girls but when they pointed at me they laughed so loud the other kids stopped to look what was so funny.
There was also this other dude who asked me to be his pair on some dumb dance presentation we had to do because we both needed extra credits, he was a few grades older than me. I didn't care about him, we weren't friends, I just wanted to do the presentation and get this over with to get my credits. When we went to group practice, he did everything to humiliate me in front of his friends, it was bad to the point I gave up the chance to get extra credits because I couldn't deal with this. He made me cry in front of the whole school. I barely remember his face, I just remember how bad it felt.
It was like that everyday. Constantly being judged by my looks, in or out of school, no value besides as a future baby machine and a piece of meat some guy would use and discard sooner or later.

I didn't trust any school authority to do anything about the bullying, when they tried shit got much worse for me and when my grades started dropping, the supervisor suggested that I had problems at home and that I needed meds. Once she forced me to apologize to one of my bullies, a boy at least two grades older than me.
The female teachers were bullies themselves and this one male teacher was weird but kinda nice, he was popular because he was funny and very chill. Nobody ever cared about his weird comments on the girls, I don't think anyone ever noticed, at least not the boys. I started paying close attention when my sister told me after class he was a pig because he made nasty comments about her friend's body. She was 10, I was 14, and yeah, he did it constantly with many girls in my class too, but never about me, I felt relieved and othered at the same time, dunno how to explain better than that.. he treated me like that not because he respected me, but because I wasn't good enough, fuckable enough, there was my worth again, none. I realized later I would still be considered worthless even if I was pretty, because I was a girl.

There was only this male teacher who was alright, but his class was once a week. He was mocked for supposedly being gay. My country is very homophobic and most people are christians.
I was also having a hard time dealing with the fact I also liked women. I had no one to talk to.
There was this girl I met on the internet who I really liked and she liked me too. I would pretend to be a boy and she knew me by a male name. People treated me much better when they thought I was a boy. Some thought I was gay, it sucked because I was still the butt of the jokes but being a gay guy was still much better accepted than being a lesbian in my country, so it was fine as long as they thought I was a guy.

Around 2009.. 2010?? I don't remember exactly, I joined this trans group where I started dating another FtM and we were later ostracized by the new members after the MtFs hijacked the group.
There was these two MtFs who were horrible. They would make lesbophobic jokes about us all while calling what they had a "lesbian relationship". Mind you, these were two 30/40 something gay men. We were both around 18-20 at the time. They also shared a lot of nasty details about their sex lives and asked me lots of weird sexual crap.
Some other MtFs around our age would mock womens (FtMs included) looks while sporting that textbook agp look. They would even mock another MtF who was around the same age as us, they said some bullshit about him not being "true trans" but my "boyfriend" and I agreed it was cope because they wouldn't pass even if they could be born again in a female body kek. We joked a lot about these dumbfucks, I think this is was the only good part of it.

Then transness started weighing on me, I was in my early 20s.. my "boyfriend" made me swear I didn't feel any attraction to women, because his exes were all lesbians in denial who later left him for women, I couldn't be the same because I was better than them.
But pretending to be a gay man was too much for me, it didn't stick for long and I broke up with him.
Then I distanced myself completely from the trans and LGBT community. I was tired of everything. Being trans made me feel worse than ever after the novelty wore off. I was seriously planning on killing myself when I turned 24.

I don't remember this part very well, like the year or the order of the things, but I found lolcow's manhate, MtF and the fakeboi threads and started hate reading it (except the MtF and manhate threads, there was no hatereading that, I fucking loved it), at this point I was also lurking in the GC reddit.
One day I decided I had enough, trans was bullshit. And that's it. I'll never be back to that bullshit.

(I'm sorry this is long, I tried to make it short but fuck, I have so much shit about this time bottled up)

No. 230551

I knew a lesbian girl who had some trauma similar to that which decided to transition. Though she thankfully didn't go through with it, I still think it's a coping mechanism. It's both self harm and disassociation from yourself while a sad effort of those poor girls trying to escape from male gaze so they don't go through the same stuff again.

No. 231973

>detransition baby
why would you choose a perv fantasy book for thread pic? at least find something from a detrans woman.

No. 231983

I googled "detransition" and thought the pic looked cool, I like colorful pictures

No. 232104

Not true for me.
>escape their bodies
This part at least is true for me. Here's my retarded desisting story. This happens over the span of 4 years
>BDD-chan, teen, southern USA, no CSA but neglect and entitled cheating assholes for parents
>Bestie wants to be gfs, if no gf she doesn't want to be friends anymore
>Never had a relationship and open to the idea so I agree
>Open up to her about my bdd symptoms which were undiagnosed at that time
>Gf reveals that she's also been very distressed and upset at my being female, but now she realizes it's not her that has to come to terms with being lesbian, it's my body's fault for being a female when I have a male brain! (I had no idea what this means and still don't, I have some of the most stereotypical female-coded interests imaginable and I didn't look like a man or interact with men)
>says the feelings I'm having are textbook troonism and I can make both our lives so much better just by transing
>She sends me a lot of reference material made by ftms about how they felt just like me once and transing resolved all their pain and turned them into a new happy person and is totally safe and effective
>this was before troonery was what it is today so not many counter sources to it
>I entertain the idea by pretending to be male online, get lots of positive interaction that I never had before, and make loads of online female friends because I'm Not Like Other Men (kek)
>Gf is thrilled that I've adopted this male persona
>I express my doubt and my gf tells me this is all part of the process
>After all, lying to my friends is what's really making me doubt this, isn't it? It wouldn't be lying if I became a man, right? Surely that's why this feels so wrong.
>To seal the deal she tells my online friends I'm really female and they all get angry at me for lying and cut contact with me, some of them tell me to kill myself
>"See anon? They loved you when you were male because you're supposed to be male. They left you because you're lying to them and yourself by not transitioning."
>I start believing that maybe transing really would make us both happier
>I go to therapist chosen by my gf
>Retarded therapist prescribes me hormones after 2 months of knowing I exist
>It feels rushed and weird so I hesitate getting the prescription filled
>Switch to a new therapist, eventually get BDD diagnosis and learn healthier copes for my issues than mutilating my body
>Break up with gf because I don't want to be a man and she won't accept me as a woman
>When I won't cave in to her suicide baiting she immediately moves on to another fakeboi
For whatever it's worth I now have a terrible time making female friendships. So I'm just a shut in who spends all my time with my husband and his male family members. I really really miss having female friends but still reeling over losing all of them during this rollercoaster. I don't blame them though I was the retard larping as a male in the first place just to please my gf who didn't even like me, just some imaginary male version of me.

No. 234727

Being raped when I was 17 and then again when I was 19 is what made me decide to transition for real, because I wanted to be anything but the me that I was at the time and my "being a woman" was what had motivated the crime against me, but I had several years of penis envy leading up to that mostly due to having really bad endometriosis and metromenorrhagia as a teenager and also getting dumped by my first girlfriend for a guy when I was in high school. It was hard for me to feel connected to being a woman when I hated the things about my body that made me a woman, and then I had tomboyish interests on top of that (STEMlord shit.) I hated the idea of being pregnant (probably for the best while I was a teenager) and resented that I would start my period completely at random, unexpectedly, at irregular, impossible-to-predict intervals just because my body had decided that I was ready to be fertile when I was 12 years old.
I read some yaoi in middle school but never actively thought "Damn I wish that was me". A couple of my fujo friends back then did express that and ended up transitioning several years later around the same time I did, but we had drifted apart by then so feelings about gender or whatever weren't really something that I'd talked to them about. If there was any kind of degenerate porn that really rotted my brain growing up I'd probably say it was futanari shit because it gave me the idea that I could still be a hot girl but with a penis. Which is, of course, completely unattainable.
I actually planned on detransitioning from the start as soon as I could get phalloplasty + hysterectomy, but about 2 years into the hormone + living as a man process I realized that testosterone made me a way shittier, more miserable person and I didn't really want to keep going through the stupid process and pretending to be a guy just so my insurance company could let me get surgery that was becoming less and less desirable the more I looked into it. Phalloplasty is a complete crapshoot and the penis they give you doesn't even work or look good. Living as a guy sucks and pretending to be like other guys is exhausting at best and evil at worst. The shit that other guys say about women when they think you are one of them is vile. Testosterone feels terrible and makes your emotions blunted (I think this is why a lot of traumatized women feel "better" on testosterone, because the unpleasant emotional blunting is better than acute post-traumatic stress response.) The trans community also sucks and is full of the most histrionic, fragile drama queens I have ever had the displeasure to meet. Even if medical technology could magically give me a functioning penis and provide a time machine to prevent me being raped by my uni professor, if I knew how completely toxic online and IRL trans communities are I would have never decided to transition because I hated being associated with those people from the very beginning. With peers and allies like these who needs enemies? I would read TERF blogs and laugh because they were dead on. I really was just a dumb girl trying to escape from violent misogyny by pretending to not be a girl anymore. All my "tomboy interests" didn't make me a man any more than learning to garden would turn a man into a woman. The girl who left me for a guy wouldn't have stayed with me if I was a guy anyway. If I'd been born a guy I'd have probably ended up with crippling testicular torsion or something else instead.
I'm lucky that I was able to just stop testosterone and my body returned to normal. I never got any surgery because I wasn't interested in mastectomy at all and hysterectomy/vaginectomy/phalloplasty still has some pretty significant gatekeeping + financial commitment required. Unfortunately I'm really bad at traditionally feminine things because I never really learned how to do them as a kid or a teenager (examples: my mom always told me that makeup makes you look like an old person, and didn't teach me; I never got into fashion as a teenager because I spent all my money on circuitry and robotics shit; all my female friends growing up were stereotypical fujo NLOG types) so I feel like I'm only now catching up on how to behave like a woman instead of like an autist (hilariously though I got tested for it as a kid and didn't have it.) I still don't "feel like a woman" but I do know from experience that I sure as hell don't feel like a man. It's probably best to just be myself.

No. 234887

My heart aches to hear you suffered so much while you were still young. I'm glad that you're taking steps to heal and be more comfortable with yourself. What I'd most like to tell you is there's no wrong way to be a woman. You don't have to do makeup or care about fashion. If STEM is what makes you feel happy and fulfilled, then pursue that regardless of its "unfemininity". You have been through too much to force yourself into restrictive roles again. As you said, you should just be yourself. I'm sure she's a lovely woman.

No. 238592

>degenerate porn that really rotted my brain growing up I'd probably say it was futanari

Futanari is the devil's work.

No. 245048

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I don’t know if this fits here but I think about trooning a lot, for quite a few reasons including autism but also mostly because I’m bi with a strong preference for women and resent it and feel out of place in the bi community for it. If I can’t be a normal bi woman then what a
I doing? Another big reason is because I have an eating disorder which often feels inescapable as a woman, but after thinking about it more I realised that trooning would be pointless because men take up more space anyway and what I really want is to be childlike again (not have breasts). Either way, it all seems pointless and I’m not deluded enough to expect that I’d be taken seriously. But I do like to use they and he pronouns on woke sites sometimes because hilariously I think using them also leads to libfems, TRAs etc taking you more seriously and it’s useful if you secretly question some gender ideology or nonsensical LGBT shit. Still tempted to troon a lot but I just can’t see myself ever taking testosterone.

No. 245231

Are you serious? "Watching too much yaoi" doesn't make a woman cut off her healthy body parts and poison her body with testosterone, that's shifting blame away from both body-related trauma born out of being sexually abused and the systemic misogyny telling women they're worthless if they're not attractive or performing femininity and that all sexuality they might experience has to be either prudish or pleasing a man. Even all the gross transbian AGPs addicted to yuri porn don't transition because anime girls brainwashed them with jewish mind control waves, they transition because they have a fantasy of having the chance to lead a luxurious life as a pampered young woman on easy mode banging virginal lesbians no other male has ever defiled before and never having to grow up to provide for themselves or any other person, but instead relying on the delusion that all women get their needs taken care of simply by existing.

Holy fuck anon your story is absolutely terrifying in both how horrible it sounds and how believable it is. Even now there are tons of young lesbians who are practically groomed into transitioning simply due to homophobia, and a lot of them struggle in relationships where the other party is clearly ashamed of dating a woman and is trying to turn the whole setting straight. I'm really sorry that you had to go through this but know that you're not the only person I've heard about with experiences like this. It's one thing to hear all the stories about young girls transitioning because they feel disconnected from their bodies but having womanhood vehemently denied from you is something that really messes with my head.

No. 245244

I sympathize with your story but why in god's name do you feel you need to "learn to be a woman" through traditionally feminine interests? You are a woman because you were born as one, you don't need to "learn" to be one. If you're not interested in makeup and want to spend your money on robotics instead just do it, you should have the right to. It's honestly sad that so many detransitioning women now "feel like they're ready to be a woman" after taking some distance via transitioning and immediately get into makeup and fashion as if that was some sort of a requirement to womanhood.

No. 245360

To be honest I think it’s just that I did not really have any good modeling from female peers growing up since they were all NLOGs who hated other girls so I’m grasping at straws and stereotypes just to try and figure out a starting point. I’m not that interested in STEM anymore because of what happened to me in university so I’m just trying to fill the void with something and figure out the type of woman I’d like to act like. It’s not like a stereotypical feminine type of hobby is a requirement for me to be a woman, I do obviously know that, but I spent my whole life first being discouraged from it by my peers because “girls who are interested in that are nothing but shallow sluts” and justified it to myself as “you’d be wasting your money on things that don’t matter” as soon as I had income, and then discouraged myself from it further by transitioning and telling myself that doing anything remotely feminine would make everyone find out I was secretly a female imposter, or whatever. So I’d at least like to try it out instead of continuing to act like an NLOG autist, which I’ve done my whole life and am tired of. Maybe I really won’t like it, and I’ll decide to do something else. But I’d like to at least try to “act like other girls” a bit before writing it off completely.

No. 245389

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>”Watching too much yaoi" doesn't make a woman cut off her healthy body parts and poison her body with testosterone
I feel kind of uncomfortable posting about this here, but working in western education I have definitely noticed that kids who are exposed to certain anime/manga way too early become influenced by it or use it as a means to decide what they are.

No. 245452

>Watching too much yaoi [or from an early age]
>systemic misogyny telling women they're worthless if they're not attractive or performing femininity and that all sexuality they might experience has to be either prudish or pleasing a man
It's both dumbass
How hard is it to see that yaoi provides GNC girls (especially autistic ones) with a seemingly perfect escape route from the misogyny and self-esteem issues they suffer from

No. 245471

Anyone else have a weird form of gender dysphoria where they don't feel like a male, don't want to be a male but at the same time want to identify as female but just simply feel like you're not feminine or good enough to identify as a woman? It just feels out of place or like people will mock or laugh at me if I call myself a woman

I'm a cis woman for reference. I definitely agree most FtMs have suffered some sort of trauma. I definitely feel like people underestimate or laugh off how damaging bullying and socially imposed ideas can be and it makes it really difficult to talk about without everyone immediately blowing it off or using the "just don't listen to them!" card. We function and get out ideas, thoughts, goals, etc by society,it is completely fair to discuss issues even if they're only within your subgroup, area or whatever

No. 245476

So in other words the problem is still the structural misogyny? If someone was attempting to escape a dictatorship, would you just shoot them at the border or rather fix the system so that they wouldn't need to escape in order to survive? I'm legitimately sick of people accusing whatever arbitrary form of media of the whole trooning shit because it's an easy solution to a complicated problem that would require a complete reform, including for your own way of thinking.

No. 245569

Sis I left high school last year but I remember there were a bunch of 'uwu softbois' like after lockdown you could see so many 'enbies' with names like 'wall' and 'shroom', it is literally just tik tok autism

No. 245619

>>245048 non ironically i think that your case is a lot common than what you think because every once in a while i see a ftm seething on Twitter because "transmasc (read: aidens) are misoginist and put us in danger" and "they regurgitate evil terf rhetoric" kek they really hate any questioning even if is made by literal kids mostly. But it would be funny that if behind most they/he/she accs it was a terf in disguse. Sadly most them seems to be raging self-hate NLOG misoginists with fujo brainrot.

No. 245622

>>245360 is nice that youre exploring yourself anon. It's true that you don't need anything to prove that youre a true women because you are. But also is true that female hobbies are discouraged and it's perfectly ok to want to try them now. Remember that is also ok that some tastes change in life and also is ok if they stay the same. I know lolcow isnt the best place to encourage a person to be herself kek, but i wish you the best. Remember that as long you arent a delucional narc who loves expose themselves like the cows posted here you will be ok and be an ok person in general ♥

No. 245623

Samefag but please don't ban me for emoji use i did the # <3 thing in meta but it looks like an emoji somehow.

No. 245685

For me, I think I'm so deep in BDD that I just don't want to be acknowledged period. But I can relate to what you're saying. Calling myself a woman feels wrong because, like >>234727 I feel that I am not woman enough to have the right. But being called a man offends me and makes me cringe. Being assumed to be a they/them, even worse. It just reinforces how ugly and manly I look by default. The erasure of GNC women in favor of rainby nonsense pisses me off, paired with a misogynistic society that treats GNC non-lesbian women as lepers.
I've always been masculine looking in height, body, face, and voice. I could probably transition fairly easily on that alone. My bullying has been constant since I began puberty at an early age. It's been practically non-stop even in adulthood. I was always the ugly girl guys ignored or asked out as a joke. The ones that did like me were tranny chasers on the side.
I never felt right in my body, but thankfully it was during a time before tranny propaganda took off full speed. I am too emotional to be a man, and I know I'd fail being one. Gay men make me sick so that's a no-go either.
I've always been a tomboy, maybe a bit of an NLOG because I envied men so much. I wanted to blend in more with male peers so I wouldn't be dismissed for being a female, and an ugly one at that.
I befriended a MTF briefly who was pushing transitioning onto me so hard. I would send selfies on occasion and he praised me for looking sO mAsC! when I wasn't even trying. I hated it. For a time, I thought it was the solution, and he would feed me pseudophilosophical tranny bullshit that further convinced me it was. I admit I do sometimes look in the mirror and imagine how hot I'd look as a dude. I even did drag once and it felt right. But I think that was just me coping with my ugly. Femininity is beautiful to me, and it's my dream to achieve it, but I fail so badly at it. I almost feel like I fetishize it like a MTF troon, which makes me hate myself even more. Maybe I should just come out as a biotrans girl like Kikomi. I'm just a mess kek.

Sorry for disjointed stream of conscious sperg but I'm so happy I found this thread and just wanted to let it out. Trying to embrace my GNC looks and resist the fakeboi Koolaid but fuck is it hard at times.

No. 245729

Anyone else not actually regret their transition? I never gave a shit about "gender" and still don't, but I like the way I look and sound way better after T.

No. 245740

It's not even that I believe I'm masculine and you're probably not even masculine looking either, it's that the standards for "looking feminine" is so high now that most women no longer look woman enough for most without constant hair, makeup, nails, etc

No. 245745

I came out as FTM in middle school, took T for 2 years when I was 17-18. I'm now 21 and detrans. I'm not a CSA victim or anything, I think it was just the general unsafe feeling of being female that got to me- by the time I was in middle school adult men would try to chat me up, I got harassed and followed just walking down the street, any male friends I had would inevitably try to make a sexual move. It all made me really resent my body. And once I started T, men did start leaving me alone for the most part so even though I didn't get any joy from presenting male I continued. I've always had a very strong disconnect between my body and mind so when my fat started redistributing to my waist, I grew facial hair, and my voice got deeper I wasn't alarmed because it was like I was looking at someone else's body.
The "spark" that got me to detrans was when one of my closest (male) friends who I had complete trust in took advantage of me one night when I was drunk. I realized that the baggy clothes I wore, the beard, the deep voice and practiced male posturing, none of it would protect me from the fact that I am female and therefore a target. So why bother suppressing my desires to be feminine in vain hope that men would leave me alone? Admittedly I still have a lot of self hate to work through (and in detransitioning I gained an ED too kek) but I've started wearing cute, girly clothes like I've always wanted to and am overall happier than I was when I was trans, even though I'm starting to get a lot more of the creepy male interactions I worked so hard to avoid

I like my voice better after T too but the facial hair is pretty annoying. I was also planning a mastectomy and I think I'm still going to get it, just because I think small/flat chest would look better on me. So for the most part transition was pretty neutral for me too

No. 245753

ty for posting this, anon. i really needed to read something like this.

No. 245771

>"i don't act like an average american cisgender gay guy"

And what does an Average American Cisgender Gay Guy act like?

No. 245772

From my observation on twitter, if they don't yell "yaaasss queen slayyy" and call black women "sassy" three times a day they die.

No. 245851

>What made you do it?
Feeling ugly. I felt like I was too unattractive to be a girl (based on what I now realize were stereotypical and pornified ideas of what women should look like) but could be considered attractive if I were male. This didn't help when dating women, it was easier for me to get girlfriends when I presented more masculine. Ontop of this just general engrained shame about my body from being in school (I was very busty from a young age). I think I also subconsciously noticed how much freedom men had to just be silly and fun and cringe while it felt like girls were always supposed to be attractive and fuckable.

>What made you go back?

Embracing being a woman. Spending less time on tumblr and less time around other gender focused kids, and more time around other women and getting a boyfriend. Also looking at less porn, and getting some hobbies in my life which were more important than fixating on gender all day. Accepting being unattractive helped too. I don't worry about my appearance anymore.

I'm glad at the time it wasn't popular enough in my area. When I tried to get "help", hormones, surgery, no one knew what I was talking about. Being looked at like I was crazy probably saved my life. I feel really lucky I didn't end up doing those things. Hugs to any anons here who did.

No. 245872

I appreciate the sentiment but in my case I am objectively quite masculine looking. Bulky jaw, long midface, close-set eyes, sharp features. But I do understand where you're coming from. I feel like women need to be made up constantly to fit in. God forbid a woman doesn't wear makeup or takes it off, has shorter hair, has short nails. Men will pounce on this and say she looks like a dude, even if she still has a feminine face and body. Or worse other women will attack her. >>245851 Puts it pretty well in her first paragraph. I think it's kind of ironic that the west has embraced all this stuff about 'smashing gender norms' and yet the image of what a woman should be has become more pornified than ever. I wish I was born in the 80s or something when inverted triangle, strong looking women were appreciated.

No. 252113

How old does a thread have to be before it's considered necroing? Sorry if this counts.

I always felt like a weird kid, had low self-esteem, never liked having breasts, preyed on by perverts, etc etc. so I was a perfect candidate. When I developed breasts I wore ill-fitting bras 24/7, even while asleep. When I got a bit older I developed an eating disorder, so I lost a lot, gained a lot, lost a lot, and so on very quickly. Then when I got super into Tumblr I started identifying as non-binary/a boy and bound my chest for a while. All of this absolutely fucked the elasticity of my breasts. Now they're flat and they sag a lot, I hate looking at them or feeling them without a bra when I get ready for bed. I obsessively look into breast lifts but there's no way I could afford it. I think I always had some form of body dysmorphia. Kind of ironic that while trying to cope with it I managed to actually damage my body in a way that just fuels my obsessions.

No. 252126

(if there’s a way to a read more link or something, let me know. i don’t post to this site hardly at all so i’m not sure how that works.)

not sure if this will count as well, but for me people use to make fun of my deep voice all the time, and i have pcos which makes me have hair in places that people would bully me about all the time. also, sexual harassment was awful, but the comments from other older family members i my life, mainly the women like my mother (ew) and aunt (ew again) about how i was unladylike, never going to get a husband, etc would hurt me a lot.

i was so young and sad about it that it affected me heavily as i grew up that i seriously hated being called a girl/woman. also, in my culture, it was very much the woman serves the man. one time a relative told me i had to learn to cook because my husband would want me to do that for him, and that upset me to much at the time that when i cried really hard in my room when i was by myself that day; i was around 15 then.

just very bad experiences surrounding everything in my life made me want to detach from it all.

now i’m just a lesbian woman with a deeper voice and chin hairs (from pcos) and i’m still learning to love myself and my body. sometimes life is what it is.

No. 252151

I was watching a video lately where a woman was talking about how women (think she meant more online) are always subjected to random comments on their appearance no matter what serious topic they're actually posting about. How even if its a compliment its like no topic can ever rise above whether you look pretty or not. Lay your soul bare in a video… girl you look so pretty today! Chin up though you're so cute! Sorry you had cancer and a miscarriage and got in a car wreck but you look so good here even while crying! That men started the ball rolling with this 'looks above all else' view of women and now even we do it to each other thinking we're raising each other up. How it doesn't always do that. Sometimes it borders on inappropriate. There's a point where you just don't feel seen as a whole person when every complimentary thing people have to say is about your looks.

That got me thinking back to my trans days. I got married too young and separated young so as soon as I was back on the market again I just wanted to be invisible. I didn't want to be a still young woman navigating the world by myself with no buffer to keep that attention and judgement at bay. I went tran to avoid unwanted attention essentially. Not saying I was even above average but that type of attention always bothered me like crazy. I didn't feel like a person. I went through phases of full on agoraphobia when I was underage and had incidents with men that terrified my already anxious teenage self. I wasn't even into fashion or dressed in any stand out way so I felt like I just couldn't escape that harassment being a harsh reality for girls. Having a panic attack while a man twice your age follows you after you already said no. I don't know if that's what broke me but I've never wanted or appreciated a compliment or random comment about how I look, not since I was very young. It only leaves me feeling uneasy.

All these years later I still lean into a style that probably screams lesbian. I want to go largely unnoticed by men in particular. A few years ago I would rather be a 5 foot 4 effeminate half man than deal with 'totes flattering and positive' attention from men so I've compromised by just keeping my wardrobe loose and andro. Ngl I liked the short while where I passed as guy. I was small and looked way younger but I didn't feel those same looks. I walked through a busy city and felt unnoticed. I'm glad I had that for even a while but I knew long term I'd be be medically fucking myself over if I kept it up.

Last year I was back to wearing some of the most feminine clothing that I've owned in about a decade and a seedy compliment from a male neighbour sent that outfit into the trash. I also had a man I don't recognise tell me he'd seen me around alot and tell me my fave color based on how I wear that colour alot.. do I know you? Should I be concerned? He followed me til I started walking towards a nearby fucking police station. I'm not going tran again but I'm still opting out of anything that a man could mistake for me leaving the house thinking 'God I sure hope rando guys compliment me today' Maybe I sound unreasonably traumatised by incidents in my youth and I've questioned if I'm autistic with how much unwanted interactions disturb me but I can control how I present myself and that's all I have to offset the way people view women and the way people assume women loove attention.

I've noticed plenty of detrans women on YouTube tend to become highly feminine again very soon after coming off the hormones. That's something I've never really understood, the 180 happening so quickly. Alot of them seem to play it off as 'well you see my gender is fluid' and I suspect they're tiptoeing around genuine discussions that could be had if it weren't for all the backlash they'd receive.

No. 253283

Everything you say about the awfulness of feeling looked at constantly, and the comments and all that….it really resonates with me. I've gone through periods of agoraphobia too, and I wonder a lot how common that is for detrans/tif women. I also wonder sometimes if I'm like, way way way more freaked out by this than normal but I don't think so – I think women just don't let it out that much. There have been periods in my life where people could have looked at me and thought I was a-okay with being the looked-at girly girl, and yeah, I was functioning and even in a good place, but the constant gaze was still a weight. And like, my sister is very femme, way more normal, has always loved fashion and all that, but she's confided in me often about how much she loathes the feeling of constant surveillance. I took her to my female-only gym once, and she couldn't stop talking about how much she loved it.

There are definitely a lot of detrans women who go super feminine out there now, but it's definitely not the whole of the community – when I first stumbled onto it in 2016ish, it was like….all butch lesbians. Not the case anymore, but they're definitely still around (a lot on tumblr) and I'm really, really grateful to them. I've become more and more frustrated with the way detrans stories are becoming used by the right wing, and how many people are clearly desperate for "don't worry, i'm a nice girly straight girl now!" stories instead of "i'm a butch dyke and i'm proud" ones. It feels like detransitioned women have no place anywhere. My lefty friends in my lefty towns (who don't know my history) insist my experiences could not have happened. The right-wing gc crowd wants to use this to slime all gay people and slam women back in the kitchen. I'm exhausted.

No. 254385

i never got far in my transition (thank god my mother had the common sense to tell me medically transitioning was a bad idea) but i did try really hard to pass for a while and i considered myself ftm trans.

i am autistic but i was diagnosed as an adult. throughout my childhood i knew i was born different from the other kids. i knew i was different. so when i heard people talk about how trans people are ~born in the wrong body~ i thought it fit me perfectly. Of course i now realize the reason i felt different was because i had undiagnosed autism and the reason i hated my body is because i felt guilty and gross for going through sexual trauma. at the time i didn't even know much about autism OR the effects of sexual trauma. the first activists i heard were not survivors nor disability activists but instead "trans activists"

i blamed the effects of csa as being dysphoria. i blamed not being able to fit in with my peers in school as being trans. i blamed knowing i was different but not knowing why on being trans.

so i started trying to appear male, and telling people to use he/him. until i realized it was making me even more miserable. it wasn't fixing anything. i used to hate radfems and terfs, i used to go to radfem social media accounts to argue. what they were saying made more and more sense to me. i started denying it but after a year of denial i thought i should research radfem ideals more, maybe there was a reason i deep down, agreed with them. and i did research, a lot of it. i realized i had fallen into the same illusion a lot of women do, the illusion of choice. we don't chose to be a woman, but of course liberal feminism thinks otherwise. i started caring less about passing as male and i stopped telling people what pronouns i use, but i didn't fully accept myself as a woman again until i got my autism diagnosis. that is when everything started to make sense for me. i wasn't "born the wrong gender" i had a mental disability. that's why i felt different my whole life.

i might write more, but for now that's it. it's interesting to read other women's experience with detransitioning.

No. 254644

I had a lot of trans thoughts earlier in my life. At the time, I thought I didn't necessarily hate my body, but just wanted to be perceived as male. It started with pretending to be a guy in internet spaces and really liking the attention I got since this was in spaces for hobbies/interests that were mainly populated by girls. Later on, I wanted to actually have a dick in addition to being male. I especially wanted one when I first got a boyfriend in high school, the sex was bad and I ultimately took on all the blame, I thought it would just be easier and more simple if I had a dick. In just one session, he's already cum X amount of times (in hindsight it was through youth and ignorance alone that I didn't know he was a coomer from the outset lmao) so I thought maybe there's something wrong with me that I've never orgasmed myself by that point (I didn't really know how to masturbate at the time) and also became a coomer via yaoi. I also started gaining a lot of weight at that time and started to like it when clothes fit me in a masculine way.
However, I fucked hated the fat and it wasn't until I was in college and my mom wasn't cooking all my meals anymore that I put serious effort into shedding the weight. I still have some more pounds to go before I'm at my goal weight, but I'm now just a tad overweight when I started obese (according to bmi's). I don't think about having a dick anymore and I know that's because I've since dumped that guy and learned how to effectively masturbate and I don't get "gender euphoria" looking masculine or being referred to in masculine ways. I still like masculine fashion and will will wear masculine styles relatively frequently, but I think my previous desire to be perceived as masculine was my way of coping with the fact that (imo) masculine clothes/looks "fit" me better when I was obese (like, that explanation just made my feelings make sense when coupled with my penis envy).

God, I feel like such a coomer/autoandrophile compared to the other anons here, but I just wanted share in case anyone could relate

No. 255781

I just want anons itt to know I love you

No. 259947

Thanks anon, I and I’m sure others appreciate it.

No. 285629

I wanted to be a boy for years as a kid. (I was a masculine lesbian growing up in a small town) Went through a phase for about a month where I seriously thought of myself as nb or ftm. Snapped out of it real quick when I saw not a single FTM passed in the way I’d want to look and I’d be a manlet forever.

No. 285720

Im so lucky that I grew out of it. I honestly have to thank my mom for this though.

I was a typical tomboy, I loved playing with guy toys, I had short hair, and I dressed masculine. I never liked my body, especially my chest. It always stuck out like a sore thumb, and I hated it. Living in a liberal area (California), I was instantly told I was trans. This made sense, as I didn’t have a good connection with my body, and my femininity didn’t fit into the standard.

My mom didn’t like this, obviously, but she also didn’t try to stop it too hard. I think she knew that the more she tried to restrict it, the more I would fight back and get myself deeper in. Instead, she encouraged me to do research on hormones and side effects.

I’m already unstable, and the effects of testosterone had more bad than good. I wanted the deeper voice and fat redistribution, but not the body hair, smell, or aggression. That put me off of wanting hormones, but it wasn’t enough. I still hated my chest, and I was working with my therapist to get a full top surgery, flat man chest. And I was scarily close to getting that too. My mom knew to step in now, before it’s too late.

She offered to pay for my surgery, IF I had a reduction instead of a full top surgery. She understands that my chest is my most hated feature, and it’s not like I can lose chest weight the same way one loses belly fat. It’s an expensive procedure, and she was gonna pay for it, so I took her up on the offer, but asked what the catch was. The catch was that I’d go down to a smaller size (originally F cups, went down to B), and if I wasn’t satisfied after a year, she’d allow me to get it fully removed.

The reduction was the best thing to ever happen to me. I finally felt comfortable in my body, and the major “dysphoria” was gone. It’s only been a few months, but I discovered a lot about myself with this body change. I don’t want to be a man. I just wanted the chest smaller and like masculine things. I don’t think I even have to wait a year to know I’m very satisfied with the results. My mom didn’t have to pay for my surgery, in fact, it would’ve been cheaper to let me get the full thing off, because my insurance covers gender affirming surgery.

Now, I’m still warming back up to femininity. It’s very hard to escape the troon hive mind, and I catch myself slipping back into that a lot. Logically, I know it’s stupid to use she/they pronouns, but there’s a tiny part of me that clings to the “they” because I don’t fit in well with femininity. I’m working on this by myself right now, because liberal therapist would probably just tell me to accept that part of me.

Nonnas who have been through the last paragraph, how did you detach yourself from those pronouns?

No. 285809

I wanted to use they as well. I don't really have a good answer other than trying to see the word she as a totally neutral description and not a "sissy" word or whatever. It's hard to make your brain stop obsessing over how people perceive you as a girl so I really get it.

No. 285859

So glad for this thread, reading all your stories has been comforting. I’m a masculine bisexual woman (greatly prefers women) and I feel pretty out of place, even in my pretty diverse social circle. I’m the only gender non-conforming woman I know who doesn’t identify as trans or non-binary or something. Hell, I casually used the term gender non-conforming to refer to myself recently and one of my friends reacted like I was coming out as non-binary. I used to identify as ftm and experienced a lot of gender dysphoria that hasn’t fully gone away, but sometimes I still find myself entertaining the thought of transitioning. I scroll the ftm subreddits or whatever and I still feel jealous of them, but I also don’t want to be like them. I find it difficult when I see men out and about with a similar fashion sense to me because all I can think about is how different we look (maybe this one is a bit shallow), even worse if they’re with a girlfriend (I still have a weird aversion to the thought of being a masculine woman dating women rather than a man dating women). And it’s so hard not having anyone in my life that understands! A lot of my well-meaning friends would probably ask me to consider that I’m trans with “internalised transphobia” or some nonsense just for being a dysphoric woman who doesn’t believe in gender identity (I’ve had people ask me if I’m non-binary or ftm the few times I’ve tried to talk about this both in real life and online…). I guess I just try to remind myself that there’s nothing wrong with being the way I am naturally but it can be difficult sometimes. Sorry for the ramble, I just wanted to get this off my chest to some people that might understand.

No. 285862

>Hell, I casually used the term gender non-conforming to refer to myself recently and one of my friends reacted like I was coming out as non-binary.
Sorry that this happens to you nonny. I think gendies interpret the term GNC as "doesn't identify as being within the gender binary" or "doesn't conform to the assigned gender" (of course "gender" in these retards' minds now also means being either man or woman, not just your mannerisms and preferences as they originally claimed).
>still have a weird aversion to the thought of being a masculine woman dating women rather than a man dating women
Rather than "internalized transphobia" I wonder if this is not internalized homophobia. Do you have any idea why you might be feeling weird about dating women as a masculine woman? Do you feel like a fake or like it's not natural, or something like that? Or perhaps it's due to this lingering desire to be a man that you still don't feel comfortable with yourself, and you need to learn appreciate your own sex/body more so you stop feeling strange being a masculine woman.

No. 285945

>I see men out and about with a similar fashion sense to me because all I can think about is how different we look (maybe this one is a bit shallow), even worse if they’re with a girlfriend (I still have a weird aversion to the thought of being a masculine woman dating women rather than a man dating women).
Oh yeah that shit makes me feel like an incel kek. Like the bar for men is in hell, yet they are doted over unconditionally, always given the benefit of doubt, given all the love etc. They could do jackshit, just exist and society acts like they're the best thing since sliced bread while portraying masc women as dry saltine crackers someone sneezed on and nobody would ever choose over men. Any woman who dares to be into masc women instead of men, will get interrogated even by supposed allies about why they don't might as well date men. As if there's something particularly disgusting about masculinity in women. Sometimes I just get random pangs of embarrassment about myself.
People love to act like media doesn't matter, but let's be real. The only time you see a masc woman on screen who isn't straight, it's to make fun of her or kill her. Like it's in general rarer to see a masc woman on screen who isn't straight, than one who is. Men complain about not being complimented enough and that they aren't seen as sexual or something, but they at least have SOMETHING. You don't see masc women pop up to advertise cologne, being a serious love interest even in more diverse shows, like the best you can hope for is being used for a rug muncher joke in a fucking cartoon. Yeah okay, no wonder it's difficult to feel sexy or desired. Like all I got to cling to is that cover photo of KD Lang with Cindy Crawford from decades ago. Nowadays when you see a masc woman on screen who isn't straight, you can fucking guarantee they will pair her up with the MtF character they shoehorned in.
It doesn't help that even supposed gender critical people within the community would gladly ship off masc women over to the T, just out of embarrassment. Yeah yeah, you shouldn't give a fuck about what other people think, just be yourself, you do you, there's someone out there for everyone. Okay, but how am I supposed to build a healthy self esteem when the only materials I have at my disposal are the equivalent of twigs and double sided tape to build a house?
Masc women are on one hand portrayed as disgusting jokes, but on the other hand we're also automatically all don juans who are constantly tripping over women throwing themselves at us, because of ~visibility~. So very few women are attracted and those who are, treat you like a fuckboy who has to be punished and kept on a leash, with every single action of yours being analyzed at the micro level for toxic masculinity. No matter how vulnerable you try to be. Meanwhile men can show just 1% of the vulnerability, only put in 1% of the effort, but they get practically unconditional devotion. Yeah, I am jealous and I wouldn't be comparing myself to them in the first place, if all of society didn't do that already. It's not like I want the exact same deal as them, but you know, it would be nice if the sheer idea of a woman being attracted to a masc woman wasn't seen as a complete fucking joke.
The women I
It almost makes me feel like the delusional one for trying to believe that attraction to masc women even exists, which is weird because I am attracted to masculine women too myself. It's not just pure internalized homophobia, because it's specifically about the idea of a masculine woman with a woman. You don't see two feminine women together get questioned nearly as much, people have an easier time understanding that. It's the first image of women loving women most people see, whether it be on TV or elsewhere.

No. 285947

File: 1662529617419.jpg (196.24 KB, 1111x803, gentlemanjackcancelled.jpg)

samefagging to speak of the devil, FUCK THEY CANCELLED GENTLEMAN JACK, see this is what I fucking mean, we get a crumb and it's immediately taken away, fuck https://bringbackgentlemanjack.com/

No. 286269

Ayrt — Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I’m on mobile so apologies for any formatting errors.
>Do you have any idea why you might be feeling weird about dating women as a masculine woman?
I suppose I feel like if I were male my attraction to and relationships with women would be more “legitimate”. It feels like I’ll always be trying to do what men can do by virtue of existing as men — be attractive to the majority of women in their natural state, be taller and stronger than most women (not sure why this is a thing for me but it is. I’m only 5’4” and am pretty insecure about it). In essence, just be male, I suppose. It just feels like I’ve been dealt a shitty hand in some ways by not being a straight man and instead being a masculine woman who prefers women.
>Do you feel like a fake or like it's not natural, or something like that? Or perhaps it's due to this lingering desire to be a man…
I think it’s a combination of everything at this point. The unresolved dysphoria from my adolescence, internalised homophobia, a general sense that things would just be easier if I were male. I just don’t know what to do about all of this.

I really resonate with your anger. I think to a certain extent I’ve internalised this idea of masculinity in women being a joke. I generally like how I present myself (I don’t shave my body, have a buzzcut that I maintain myself, wear comfortable jeans & sweaters, and am happy with that) but sometimes I catch myself in a shop window or a mirror and I see it all as a pathetic attempt at being something I’m not supposed (or even able) to be. I don’t care much about TV and movies but I know that it would’ve helped me a lot to see masculine women portrayed as multi-dimensional human beings in the media when I was younger, because I have never seen myself in the heterosexual hyperfeminine women that dominate all corners of the entertainment industry. I was going to ramble on and type up a big essay in response but I think anything I could say would just be echoing your feelings lol. God I wish I knew masc women I could rant to about this stuff in real life but they all identify as non-binary or trans.

No. 289786

As much as it might be unpopular to say this, I look back on my trans phase with pretty neutral feelings today and not with any real regret. I took hormones and reached the point where I was passing to strangers. I worked with the public, old and young so I would've known if I wasn't fully passing. I was surprised how soon I reached that point. In my case I feel like I lucked out. Passing seemed to come easily and once I changed my mind and took the binder off, let my own hormones kick back in.. Returning to normal came easily too. Though I'm butch, which helps. I'm not striving to be very feminine. It feels controversial to say how I truly feel about it. That I'm ok with it. Like people want to hear that you regret it. And many do.

It wasn't an experience that left lasting damage for me. It was interesting to live out a couple years where I was perceived differently. It wasn't the answer to my problems. I know it would've been bad if I'd gone too far. I recognize that but I can't say I would go back and really change anything. I sympathize with women who have more lasting damage, who had surgery or who want to return to being feminine and who struggle with voice changes. I like my voice more now tbh. Tmi but the clitoral growth is like a lifelong bonus. I had a very hidden and unresponsive clit before and I wouldnt take that change back. They're the only 2 changes I still have today.

I came away from it all with more acceptance that I'm just butch. It shouldn't take a detour like that to get there but that was part of me getting there. I've spent years following the stories of others who've left trans world behind. I just feel lucky by comparison. There were alot of shitty life circumstances that lead to my transition (all the usual textbook reasons that women pursue this) but I came back out of it ok. I accept it as part of my history but I wish professionals in general would guide women to address those issues before taking some hormones as a fix. The same few underlying issues come up time and time again when I listen to other detrans women. Are you autistic, were you CSAed, did your dad always favor your brothers, are you gay and do you feel ok with it. It's always the same few things that get overlooked. It only puts those issues on the back burner. You still end up having to face them and work through them sooner or later.

No. 290024

Nona, maybe this helps: I see pronouns as an indication of a biological fact, we are female humans, just like female cats or female snapping turtles.

Not fitting in with society's "femininity" does not make you any less of a female human, wear it with pride, you too are a fully legitimate part of female humans, because you are. The tomboys too make up what it is to be female, because to be female is just to be, as a female human.

I ask you not to throw away your vocal indicator of you biology, because you not identifying with society does not mean you are any less part of us. You are fully welcome in the group you are in, and together we will show society that being a woman doesn't have any other strict "rules" besides just existing as a female human.

No. 290036

I never transitioned because that wasn't even a thing when I was a kid but I would go on about how I was really a boy when I was 8-13 ish. I made myself an alterego in my head and I was convinced I was him. I wasn't abused by my family at all but I was bullied so it was in a way escapism and me being a bit more rough helped fight off the bullies. I got hooked on anime quite soon and anime made femininity seem really stupid and unappealing to me. For years every character I made up in my head to take part in the stories I'd imagine was a guy. Probably because at that time all the media I liked only had men as the protagonists, even the books and movies I loved, and women there used to be shallow, only developed around their looks and how they'd serve the male MCs.
So yeah in my case if was just internalised misogyny. The thing is I hated real boys, they always were real dicks to me and I got along with girls. I just couldn't imagine a woman being an actual deep person so I assumed I couldn't be a woman. I think lolcow was the thing that got the last bits of that mindset out of me when I started using it at around 22ish (I think?) and also dating a few guys and finding out how fucking shitty, abusive and actually shallow and head-empty they really are. I think I'd be an enby if I was a teen today and I'm convinced most NB women have the exact same mindset I used to have. They think because they're complex, they can't "just" be a woman.

No. 290038

Samefag but your mom is really wise. I don't think many parents would be this understanding and smart. Most just push their children even deep into the trans ideology.

No. 290095

>I'm convinced most NB women have the exact same mindset I used to have. They think because they're complex, they can't "just" be a woman.
You're right. Men are so evil and inhuman they don't consider women as people, and plenty of us internalised that misogyny early on. I was a teenager when the tranny explosion was first starting and I fell into the enby trap for a few years. I had never taken to the most important parts of femininity (makeup, grooming, heterosexuality), and while my female role models were never cruel about this, none of them were GNC either. It's only as a desisted adult that I've been able to connect with women who aren't enslaved to gender performances, so growing up that's what I thought womanhood had in store for me. I couldn't do any of that, and the few times I tried I was bad at it, plus I hated every second. Now add the sexist portrayals of women and girls as vapid, stupid, useless, one-trick sexy lamps. I think anyone in my position would think "oh no, that's not me, I must be different"– because I literally was.
Unfortunately there was no one around to tell me there's no wrong way to be a woman. No one was saying up front "women are interesting," "women have just as much depth if not more than men," "women can do anything men can do (and better)." I suppose there was a lot of libfem crap circulating at that time but none of it is sincere, and none of it gets to the heart of problem: that women are systematically devalued and dehumanised. And it definitely doesn't confront trannyism's role in that system. Thank god for the radblr that peaked me.

No. 290209

File: 1664112498895.jpg (127.44 KB, 1024x768, 1.jpg)

sorry just have to vent a bit:

i am trying to change my name back through a legal loophole that was supposed to be way faster than the normal way, but the registry center is not taking it and ive been waiting for over a year now while they keep asking for more proof

its so depressing because this whole transshitphase isnt even a topic for me anymore, i do have to shave every 2-3 days because of stubble on my chin and i do worry my voice is suspciously deep, but living in a alt right part of the country most customers i talk with dont take a second look at me and on the phone I also got called miss again (before they correcting themselves after theyve seen my name on the contract)

either way, i just want my fucking name back, thats all i want
i cant apply for any jobs, i cant apply for a visa, i cant do anything and it fucking sucks

No. 290360

Posting this here to get it off my chest, I have never said anything about this to anyone before.

When I was extremely depressed and suicidal in high school I thought I was trans. I had always hated my breasts and had pretty intense body dysmorphia. I can remember asking my mom to buy me binders in middle school before I even thought I was trans and would bind with sports bras. I used to keep my winter jacket on all day long in school to hide my body and then go out into the freezing cold with the jacket unzipped because having it zipped up would remind me of my body. It was fucking bad and debilitating, even just being in my body when I was alone I felt uncomfortable. I was also a tomboy and felt out of place with other women, which only reinforced the dissonance I felt.

I never actually transitioned, but I got a breast reduction when I was 18 and it fucking changed my world. It's hard for me to remember just how bad my relationship to my body was when I was younger because the way my breasts are now feels like it's how my body has always been (or should've been). I lost weight and maintained it. I realized that I'm a lesbian and how that influenced a lot of the social incongruities I felt. Do I still have parts of my body I wish I could change if I could wave a magic wand? Yes. But I'm content and confident both with my body and with being a woman.

I think there's a ton of girls out there that women have to act and look a certain way, and when they inevitably fail to live up to that standard, IDing as trans is an easy horse to hitch all of your life's problems on. I think the laxness with which we're allowing young kids to make medically life-altering decisions is really scary. I don't like to think about what life would've been like I had I gone down that route.

No. 290389

Same anon, I detransitioned so long ago but still have my stupid trans name on all my legal documents. It's so dumb and I feel embarrassed and unsure of how to explain my name to employers. It's wild how all the changes towards a trans identity happened at rapid speed, but the detransition feels like it's moved at a snails pace. Also cheers to shaving, I'm so nervous about hair removal

No. 290977

you mean your current employers or future ones?
i have the same hassle at my job atm, started when i was still transitioned, but that was 3 years ago, now i have changed completely and had one or two coming up to me to who i explained to that i detransitioned, they were a bit confused but it was fine after that

so honestly, all you can do is say it how it is, at this point get the word out on how many people detransition, but just be careful not to sound too transphobic or you might meet the wrong people even more with future employers

not sure how big your company is, but either word will get around eventually which did at mine seemingly, it might suck but at least people get the gist
my biggest issue is that i worry that i seem like a transwoman, mainly because of the voice despite being it not even that bad, androgynous at most, but seeing all these horror stories about them it makes me super worried, i still dont enter voice chat in games

being butch or tomboy is literally dying out just like feminine gay men just lost to this whole femboy garbage

i get you, but transitioning is not the answer, i think its just the whole struggle as although being masculine society never will accept it being on the same step as a man
idk thats just my take on it, but i wish you good luck and youre right with it being perfectly fine not playing into gender roles, so never doubt yourself or let others do it for you

No. 291069

>i still dont enter voice chat in games
T-voice is croaky and not at all like the falsetto MtF trannies put on imo, I feel like it would be unlikely that you'd be confused for a MtF by voice alone. With appearance mixed in I can see your dilemma but voice chat should be fine.

No. 291489

File: 1664539164777.jpg (34.75 KB, 889x596, Screenshot_20220930-135345_Tik…)

appearance is fine, i think its just that there are some femboys or trannys that pass "well" (unless you know what to look for) so being around people around my age i worry they just put 2 and 2 together but get 5

questions to keep the thread going though:

1. did anyone try laser therapy or other means of permanent beard removal? if so, how long did it take? costs? pain scale?

2. any talks with super woke people yet who tried to justify your detransitioning in a way to keep the trans movement facade up?

3. have you had any chest growth after stopping t again?
i had two (one butchered) keyhole operations, but i got told its nearly impossible to remove all glands so i did get growth back, so i have an a cup now (originally b cup)

and some philosophic shit:

4. do you "feel" like a woman again, inside and out? or do you feel like you lost part of you during the time you transitioned?

5. is there a way where you understand men better now? or did your opinion not change?

6. do you think this will matter to you in 20 or 30 years from now? any long lasting effects, physically or psychologically?

No. 291520

>my biggest issue is that i worry that i seem like a transwoman, mainly because of the voice despite being it not even that bad, androgynous at most, but seeing all these horror stories about them it makes me super worried, i still dont enter voice chat in games
Diff anon but my voice is the only major change I still have. I know people love to repeat over and over that ftm voices are always frog like but mine went straight to legit sounding like my dads voice. There was nothing slow about it. No frog stage. It's a pet peeve of mine that everyone spreads the whole frog thing like it's automatic. I'm butch so I feel that helps when it comes to not being perceived as a transwoman instead. In the long run it's helped me to embrace my butchness. I think people almost expect butch women to have a matching voice anyway so I'm sweating it less and less as time goes on.

I feel bad for women who want to return to a more feminine look and who feel mismatched with their new voice. That has to be hard.

> is there a way where you understand men better now? or did your opinion not change?
Being on testosterone I did feel like my own thought process changed a lil, I was less prone to worrying and overthinking so I can maybe understand how hormones play a role in men appearing disengaged at times. That and the sexual side of things.. I still hate pornsickness and pushy guys who need everything to be kinky but I had my own lil version of male puberty so I get how much of a driving force that is. Wouldn't say it gave me much empathy over it but its depressing to realise how much hormones set the foundation to either be emotionally switched on and thoughtful or to be simple minded and horny non stop. Mentally I prefer running on estrogen even if it comes with more ups and downs.

No. 291580

schizo thread

No. 292673

>any talks with super woke people yet who tried to justify your detransitioning in a way to keep the trans movement facade up?
Frame it as body autonomy. Don't elaborate beyond "it wasn't right for me" when asked why if it's not a trustworthy person and just circle back to supporting everyone's autonomy, including yours. Care for all queers in need etc etc.

No. 293673

File: 1665577418391.png (533.16 KB, 658x546, 1665542463947.png)

since this person is making the rounds, i really worry that this played right into delusion that detransitioners are just bitter little haters who deserve no support whatsoever

ive seen plently of "normal" people now make jokes on the expense that "bohoo thats being a man for ya! you cant cut off your legs and get mad you cant run anymore" or in general just see detransitioners as a running gag that they are just unhappy that they didnt turn out hot, instead of realizing that kids maybe shouldnt make the choice of life changing hormones and operations

No. 293677

how can people see that and still support that shithead thatäs genuinely really meanspirited

No. 293682

ah toinen suomalainen, mullekin meinaa koko ajan käydä noin.
To the topic, it's very telling they're dunking on a woman specifically when there are lots of detrans men being open about regretting their dick chop.

No. 293697

Typiskt svenskt misstag också kek
And I agree. It's so disturbing to see troons bully young people who got surgeries and hormones after being told that would solve all their problems.

No. 293698

Troon mad

No. 296489

I love the rest of my friends very much but seeing the TiM troon in our group chat who is a decade older than us (we're all well into our 20s, he's just super old) seriously ruins my day, and him coyly sending me anime girl reaction pics and trying to talk to me about my interests makes me want to vomit.

What's the best way to handle this? I'm close to everybody but this freak, but he's been here since before me so I can't just openly be cold. I'm not sure what the best way to disengage is while still preserving my other friendships.

Or do I just call it quits on the group? We've been friends since before I peaked so most of them are TiFs, and I'm out to them about the detransition but not the peaking.

Interested to hear how others may have dealt with their amicable friend groups post-detransition as well as navigating forced contact with TiMs.

No. 296514

Not detrans just left circles that were full of them and I just kind of ghosted. Most of them were really immature and annoying and it drained me to spend time with them so it wasn't too difficult of a decision. I find tims way too uncomfortable to tolerate rn so if I were you I'd just tell them he was making me uncomfortable by flirting or some other halfway plausible excuse and remove myself from group settings, pursue one on one friendships with the ones I actually liked. But idk, is it worth that extra effort to stay friends with them? Do you feel like you can cultivate a real, valuable friendship while not being able to be honest about how you feel? That's not a dig in any way just what influenced my decision on my part. I'm a bad liar and bad at keeping my mouth shut so I figured it was safer for everyone if I just dipped.
I did have to part ways with one long-term hs friend that trooned. Don't wanna get into the details but he seemed like a meek, traumatized guy who wanted to escape his body, but guess what? He turned out to be a fucking rapist, a porn addled, hentai addicted rapist with a drug problem and a shopping addiction. A long term friend I'd known for years and thought I knew well, but as soon as this switch flipped he went full darkside freak mode. He put on a skirt and assaulted his girlfriend and started cultivating a circle of similar drug addict thigh high wearing weirdos that all encourage his degeneracy. It broke my trust, and I'd say you should definitely follow your instincts and avoid this guy. Your gut isn't pinging you for nothing, that's your lizard brain saying fuuuuuuuck that. For a long time I thought my friend was different, he was just fucked up and sad, but no. He's as moid as the rest of them, they all are.

No. 296843

Do you think there was something someone close to you could've done or told you to get you out of it earlier or is this something you absolutely had to conclude for yourself?

No. 296890

I'm still in my pro-troon circles but I refrain from every talking about it. When asked about something in private I will play dumb as much as I can while pointing out "transphobic" facts as if they are obvious, bonus if it sounds like it's a pro-troon argument as well to slowly peak them. For example the big boob teacher came up as a topic, I said porn sick individuals shouldn't be allowed to wear that around kids and it's an obvious pedo. Friend countered with "but making laws/policies without harming OTHER (trans) groups of people would be difficult". So I simply went on asking how banning literal fetish gear around children could possible harm anyone who wasn't a pedo, and what kind of adult does he think would choose to do such a thing on purpose… and he didn't have an answer after that.

No. 297091

Know there have been other detrans youtubers but farmers might appreciate KC's content. This is her second video.

No. 299072

1. I was on T 3.5-4 years, and also PCOS.
I recommend electrolysis over laser. Laser was less expensive and got some quick clearance, but a lot of it came back. Electrolysis is definitely more painful, but I don't have to shave anymore and only go to appointments that are 15 minutes every 3-4 week with less and less hair each time now, and they're all pretty light and I could probably stop but I want them all gone. I recommend trying not to shave at all for the first couple appointments so they can get as many hairs as possible.
2. Yes. It's fucking annoying.
3. I am currently trying to have mine reversed enough that it doesn't look 'ftm' at the least. But I also hate cosmetic surgery and fear being further botched.
4. I do. I always worry about being mistaken for a troon, or that I don't look female enough, especially because people praised how well I 'passed', I fear looking 'intrinsically' male in some way. I 'pass' as a woman again except my voice (which gets me mistaken for non binary in lgbt woke spaces), I feel 'female' more than woman.
5. I hate men more.
6. I think it will, but thank goodness for therapy.
I talk relatively openly about it and make people uncomfortable a lot in the kweer spaces and some friends of mine also briefly 'detransitioned' only to re-ID as non binary when they realized it made them the social pariah. One benefit is since I am familiar with the lingo it is easier to 'cryptoterf'.
I finally changed my name and gender back in the past couple months, you will get there. It took a little over two years for me.
I've been at the same employer my whole detransition and it was so embarrassing at first, but I've come to realize talking about it peaks the masses and people are more empathetic than I thought, so I do when people ask.

No. 305509

File: 1672329842054.jpg (137.87 KB, 1170x1760, detrans.jpg)

didnt know where to post this

No. 306544

File: 1672976027774.jpeg (60.14 KB, 564x758, 43aad049416072f6aafe44f368ec41…)

an i deal with intense gender envy? i've gone off and on identifying as nonbinary. i would never medically transition because i don't want to become a disgusting balding woman with chopped off tits, but i find myself wishing to deeply i was born a cis man. when i see things like picrel i am green with envy. how do i deal with my feelings of autoandrophilia and my urge to be a gendie even though i accept I'm a woman?

No. 306546

File: 1672976674670.jpeg (2.03 MB, 2643x3614, B2E9D672-2632-401D-854A-A63AD7…)

If you want to become more androgynous there are lots of ways to do that beyond lopping your tits off and taking testosterone.

Maybe start trying to emulate androgynous characters like Lady Oscar. All the characters in the live version of RoV were played by women. If you are naturally more curvy, there are ways you can safely reduce body fat and become more athletic looking without going ana, ways you can dress to make your silhouette more androgynous, makeup and styling that you can use to look more like a masculine woman.
The reality is that most men are hideous and cannot even pass as prettyboys let alone women, so as a woman you have a head start on all of them.

No. 306550

File: 1672978987007.jpg (215.39 KB, 908x783, image.jpg)

omg i love ROV, oscar is a big inspiration in being comfortable with being a woman! also her counterpart in oniisama e, asaka rei (and the andre counterpart, which is also a masc woman character). i def love the bifauxnen archetype.

i do look androgynous already tbh but still i couldn't pass as a prettyboy because of my height (5'5), but when i was a young teenager i'd get mistaken or a boy or even accused of being a TIM. now i'm just obviously a woman even when i wear men's clothing which used to leave people confused.

you're right about how most moids cant be a prettyboy even if they wanted to, i guess its just a grass-touching moment. i know a lot of TIFs take T in hopes it'll make them a cute twink but obviously that doesn't happen. i wish i could be a female twink i guess, kind of how oscar is because shes mistaken as a twink by strangers.

as a woman i have tried to follow ftm contour techniques but those are pretty stupid and look bad always.
also i assume the majority opinion on this board about using she/they/he (full pronoun set) is cringe gendie behavior, right? it does doesn't sit right with me to use she/her completely which makes me feel so ashamed of myself sometimes. i just don't know how i could combat gender dysphoria when i know logically i shouldn't be having it. i just don't understand why i have the feelings of jealousy i do, and to keep it real, autoandrophilia/autohomoeroticsm as ray blanchard described, being a rare kind off gender dysphoria. he just gives a name for it then doesn't elaborate and i can't find any other resources about it, which frustrates me, because its like the equivalent of AGP, i don't hate my anatomy or that im child-bearing like TIFs do.

No. 306551

samefag but my original question got cut off somehow, i meant "how can i deal with gender dysphoria"

No. 306560

I can relate to your post as someone who narrowly dodged the gender bullet and I still get that feeling too sometimes although getting pinkpilled has helped me realize I wouldn't actually want to be a moid. As far as it has to do with creating a certain kind of aesthetic / attitude / look, at least in my opinion it's doable as a woman. You just need to change the way you see women and yourself as a woman (difficult to express but I hope you get what I mean). At least for me it was liberating to realize that the fact that I couldn't picture myself as a woman being certain way or doing certain things was not rooted in femaleness but in my perception of women, which had of course been influenced by misogynistic culture.

You'll also need to accept the fact that the world around you might not change along with your attitude, and in that case it's best to just not give a fuck.

No. 306578

Your gender dysphoria originated from something. It didn't just appear out of nowhere. I would suggest therapy but only if you are absolutely sure you can find a therapist willing to get down to the root of the issues. Most will just encourage you to transition and completely ignore the real problem. Do you have trauma? Are you terminally online? What about other mental issues?

No. 306586

are you same sex attracted ?

No. 306587

Agreed with >>306578 you need to figure out why you're experiencing it at all. If you don't know the source of things then you can't gain control of the situation. I'm pretty wary of therapists and did not gain a huge amount from them (because they push transition on you or plain don't get what being gay/gnc is) but I gained a lot from reading psychology textbooks on my own. It's possible to do the mental homework on your own though it takes a high level of introspection that is difficult to do when you're in the thick of gender spiraling.

What really helped me first was to focus on other women who can be role models. Get out of your own broken mind and learn about women who are unapologetically themselves. I also did a lot of work focusing on who I used to be before my life got so poisoned, my child self. In my case my eating disorder, later gender dysphoria were expressions of my homosexuality and hatred for how my obviously-female anatomy attracted a lot of harassment from men in my youth. I did a lot of work channeling energy into body neutrality, I'm now very content with the body I have and no longer think about how much I'd rather be male so I could be "free". Free was the concept for me, through my ED and my dysphoria. I thought being de-sexed would give me that. Thing is, I'd just be mutilated. Even if I could be transmuted into a man and "pass" 100%, it would have been as a result of succumbing to shit other people put me through. Instead I chose to be loyal to myself and child me who wanted nothing but to just exist. I choose to be loyal to her every day.

Best of luck out there.

No. 306602

yes, i identified as a lesbian for 4 years, dated 4 women until my late teens when i found out i was bisexual and began having a very strong preference for men

No. 306606

File: 1673022106321.png (3.58 MB, 1283x2048, E4BBFC02-EAEE-496A-9890-43A482…)


unfortunately i don't have access to therapy and i'm very skeptical of the current mental health system, especially because i experience psychotic symptoms and more often the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, but i dont think i actually am psychotic, still, i want to avoid antipsychs and the ward if at all possible. and i strongly suspect i have undiagnosed aspergers, though ADHD has been my official diagnosis since i was 6.

i do have trauma, but for me i strongly believe it had to do more with being a child instead of being a woman, because as ive gotten more womanly looking, the amount of creepy men going after me as significantly decreased. now as a woman in early adulthood, i don't get harassed like i did when i was a preteen.

as bullshit as it sounds because internalized misogyny seems to be a main motivator in gender dysphoria, i sincerely love women and i live as a woman irl. i don't tell others i'd like to use any/all pronouns or sometimes feel i am NB, because that shit is far more Embarrassing than being a woman will ever be to me.

i wish i could reach inside my brain, ask it what it wants from me by giving me gender dysphoria and intense gender envy. almost nothing gives me gender euphoria, because the only way that would ever happen is if i transmutated into a beautiful man. obviously i know that will never happen and i am adamant about never seeking medical transition.

in the spirit of jungian psychology, i just tell myself my animus is very present within me. i've even met my animus in a dream, but the encounter was very autoandrophilic in nature. i started coming into him and he passively rejected me.

as for being terminally online, i spend a lot of time on RW and esoteric twitter as a hobby, but I'm employed in manual labor and I very regularly touch grass. i exercise regularly, i am extroverted so i go out a lot. no one around me is a gendie, besides a coworker in acquainted with.

dolly parton is really my only role model if i had to say i have one , all my life i've lacked role models of either gender. my family is dysfunctional so i never looked up to them either.

other than wishing i was just a beautiful man, my gender dysphoria expresses itself in another terminally online way, like bring de-sexed as you said. the back of my mind deeply wishes i could be like picrel, but no human on earth could have the unreal, ethereal and androgynous quality of an angel. i push these thoughts aside because it's even more ungrounded and unrealistic than being just a man. still my mind nags at me and deeply desires to be like an androgynous and beautiful angel. i am known to be obsessed with angels, i have male and female angels as my profile pictures, thousands in my pinterest boards and many statues of them in my room. i just admire them so much and wish i could be like them. i especially have an obsession with archangel michael in christianity, i truly feel like he is perfection. i even have a catholic prayer candle of him and then another of a nondistinct female angel.

freedom-wise, i have intense jealousy that men can wear provocative clothing or no shirts at all, while i as a woman would be viewed differently when i do the same. even among "sex positive feminist" circles, they would believe i'm embracing my body in a sex positive, girlboss way or that i am trying to be a baddie. i just want to wear revealing clothes though without bring defined. i envy the neutral perception of a shirtless man, when as a woman, being shirtless either means vulnerability or boldness.

if it was up to me, i'd be perceived as a beautiful, androgynous angel or in a far more grounded way, a beautiful androgynous man. but like you said, if i ever attempted that, i'd turn into a disgusting, mutilated creature. i would grow a pube beard and develop a nasty beer gut.

i accept the facts of the situation but find myself deeply dissatisfied that i will never been my ideal. i try to express my ideal in a female way, but it just isn't the same.

ive never felt external pressure to be more like a man, i enjoy that i am domestic and maternal, but i was never pressured to be. my parents accepted that i was a tomboy in my youth and supported me being in male dominated spaces like a mechanics shop class, or with hunting, fishing, shooting, etc. ive even carried out outdoor activities like the ones listed above with other women too, feminine ones even. i just don't understand what the source of it could be or what to even make if my feelings

No. 306618

> had to do more with being a child instead of being a woman
It's both though. You can't really separate the two. Harassment goes down in adulthood because you're not as vulnerable and much less of an easy target. Preteen boys don't get cat called like girls do.

Nonnita, I would strongly suggest you tackle the psychotic symptoms in some way. How is up to you, but be open to everything. If it doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world. Taking meds for a month or two, or doing talk therapy for a bit won't cause any long lasting damage. Give it a chance. You can always stop, reflect and decide what's best for you. I hope you can find some peace soon.

No. 306621

You keep circling back to talking about things that have to do with being a woman who would get sexualized in the way only women do but shying away from the conclusion. Also jungian psych is feeding your mental illness.

No. 306634

in hindsight it does look like being sexualized as a woman is a major factor. how am i to cope with it?

also why do you believe jungian psychology feeds into mental illness?

No. 306638

I'm a lesbian, have always identified as one, and internalized misogyny was still the cause of my gender dysphoria. You don't have to hate women or be an NLOG to experience this cause and effect. Misogyny is a framework of our society, and for me, my issues with being a woman stemmed from the myopic view of what a woman could be and how a woman could expect to be treated, depressing prospects handed down to me by a misogynistic society. Even in the most liberal places, misogyny runs rampantly and undetected. Liberation from the definitions of what it means to be a woman beyond the base fact of having female genitalia is what's necessary.
At the end of the day, transgenderism is unproductive. I can't escape womanhood, even transitioning will not resolve the toxic mindsets and experiences I've had. I choose to live as a woman despite my persevering gender dysphoria and I choose to do everything I thought would only be possible for me post-transition. It was an uncomfortable process and difficult to wrap my head around, but the dysphoria does ease up as you reorient yourself and internalize the real issues at hand.

No. 318099

Is there any way of getting a lighter voice w/o surgery? I have a really obnoxious frog voice and almost every guy I meet thinks i'm a TiM because of it

No. 318797

I took on a pretty egregious fakeboi name when I was like 14. It's a very obvious FTM name and not even a unisex one. Last year I detransitioned at 22 but I'm still using my fakeboi name because having to explain to every person I have ever met my "new" name seemed really exhausting. And I've been using it for close to a decade now, so it feels more "me" than my birth name which I never liked anyways. Would it be weird to just live as a normal-looking woman with an old man's name? This isn't a remnant of my tranny brain, I just unfortunately got used to being called a male name. I guess I could choose an all-new name and get it legally changed but I wouldn't even know where to begin for something that important.

No. 318805

Hello nonna, I don't think you should worry so much. Many male names across cultures can also be used for women and if it makes you feel comfortable, please keep using it. You don't need to explain anything. Do whatever feels right.
If you ever get bored of that name you can always change it to whatever you want, male or female sounding. Even normies change their names so no problem.

No. 318819

If it feels like "your" name, keep it. Some typical TIF names are actually nice as women's names. In my country there's girls named Noah, it's one of these popular modern names people pick just for the sound.

Unpopular opinion but I wish chosen names were normalized for "cis" people, there are plenty of reasons to want another name besides being a troon. My former college was willing to register tranny names even if they didn't have a legal name change, why not the rest of us ?

I kept using my chosen name after desisting (it sounds female anyway) but didn't have it registered because I don't expect teachers to humor me. But one of my wokest teachers heard my friend call me that so she insisted on putting it on the name list and being asked about my "deadname" in a baby voice and shit was so cringy, I don't know how other TIFs do this, I felt like a giant retard

No. 318842

don't worry about it being weird for even a minute. people give their daughters men's names all the time, and have for a long time. also, lots of women who were never tifs go by male-sounding nicknames for all kinds of reasons. you're in good company whatever you decide.

No. 319157

I've never transitioned medically or socially (I don't consider using different pronouns online but still being a "she" in real life to be social transition, which is what I did) but I've struggled with gender identity and dysphoria from a young age. I fit a lot of the boxes for those "ROGD girls" (Autism spectrum, GNC, same-sex attracted, weeb, eating disorders, socially awkward, history of CSA, into creative interests) except I'm in the younger Millennial range, so a lot of new-wave terms and "rules" of the gender ideology I'm confused by ("non-binary" used to just be "genderqueer", it used to be stressed that gender is separate from sex, all the transgendered friends that I had over a decade ago used to laugh over the idea of a million genders or ze/xer pronouns, etc.).

I've wondered if I would be welcome in detransitioned/desisted spaces despite never coming out as any kind of gender identity (I'm lucky in the sense I chose not to since I knew no one would take me seriously). I don't believe in gender identity, but I still struggle with physical dysphoria and wish I could find other women that understood it. I used to be a Radfem and while they're 100% entitled to their opinions on TIFs, being in those circles for years made me hate myself more since some of my abuse was from the same-sex (similar group dynamics to girls who abused me), and I don't relate to lesbian culture/history, so a lot of the coping methods offered to me from detrans butches never helped. I also hate men and don't truly want to be one, but Pinkpill content triggers my cPTSD from male violence too, so I avoid it. Before someone tells me to just find a therapist, I had to stop because I can't afford it and the most I could access was basic counselling for trauma, "all identities are valid" from those informed on LGB topics (they focus on TQ now), and basic CBT exercises.

I've accepted that I'm a woman and always will be, and my dysphoria is just a mental illness, but it feels similar to when I was diagnosed with mental disorders as a kid and was alone in that experience. I feel like both sides of the debate look down on me, I'm either a "transphobic nonbinary/transman in denial" to TRAs or I'm "a stupid self-hating woman" to the GC side, despite agreeing with GCs.

No. 319203

You'll be accepted in detrans communities. On Reddit especially, they're not picky with who they talk to. Your chances at getting noticed and starting discussions there are higher than in Radfem/TERF communities. You can't misgender anyone with special genders on Reddit but they'll give you validation and advice. If you think what you want to say may get you banned because Reddit, making a throwaway account and saying what you want to say is your best option, because your post may spark good discussion. The most they can do is ban you.
Although, do you have Sexual Dysmorphia? If you only have dysphoria, not dysmorphia, it could be because of the general uneasiness women in your position face (Autism spectrum, GNC, same-sex attracted, weeb, eating disorders, socially awkward, history of CSA, into creative interests, as you said) because of society as a whole, resulting in anxiety/depression/terrible self-image. I tick all of the aforementioned boxes, sans CSA, and transitioning seemed like a solution this problem that no one's solved yet because it's a societal issue and transitioning is only a bandage. Dysmorphia is when you desire your body to be changed in a particular way, whether because of weight or genitalia or hair texture, while dysphoria is only a general feeling of unease. This current gender culture war is a pain since it conflates these two together. Addressing your general feeling of unease directly by regularly interacting with other women like you may indirectly ease your issue of Sexual image. Not sure how to find them though, maybe local Facebook weeb groups?

No. 319219

>You'll be accepted in detrans communities. On Reddit especially, they're not picky with who they talk to. Your chances at getting noticed and starting discussions there are higher than in Radfem/TERF communities.
I lurked the detransition Reddit ever since I discovered it, but I never considered I would be welcome despite relating to most if the desisters. It feels like I would be intruding on an important space for people going through a specific struggle. I might see if I can make a throwaway account and DM a mod asking if I would be allowed to post.

>Although, do you have Sexual Dysmorphia? If you only have dysphoria, not dysmorphia, it could be because of the general uneasiness women in your position face

>Dysmorphia is when you desire your body to be changed in a particular way, whether because of weight or genitalia or hair texture, while dysphoria is only a general feeling of unease.
I've never heard of this term, only "body dysmorphia", and the definitions I read of the difference between dysphoria and dysmorphia are the opposite of what you describe. I think the majority of women have body dysmorphia, but even as a child I felt my sexed body was wrong, which I don't think is inborn, but it's a similar story to a lot of textbook "transmen" I knew. It wasn't about society or gender roles, it was about me. Hence, bodily sex dysphoria. I do agree transitioning is a bandaid solution, which is one reason why I never did, but I've had Radfems just blame it solely on society made me feel like a dumb self-hating girl.

>Addressing your general feeling of unease directly by regularly interacting with other women like you may indirectly ease your issue of Sexual image. Not sure how to find them though, maybe local Facebook weeb groups?

I only have female friends now, and am the most connected to my womanhood as I've been in my life, although most of my friends don't feel the same I do (I've talked about it). I'm not sure if the last part is a joke or not though, most local weebs I met IRL are Gen Z and drank the TIF koolaid, I'm okay with being friends with women who have different opinions, but that would make my isolated feelings worse…

No. 319254

I wouldn't even blink at it. I've met people with all kinds of nicknames over the years, simply having a name of the "wrong" gender wouldn't flag anything to me.

No. 319257

NTA but do you have any theories why you don't feel comfortable in your body if it has nothing to do with misogyny?

No. 319382

AYRT. It used to be about misogyny when I was a teenager, but growing up, I kind of grew out of the "Me VS Other girls" mentality. I still feel isolated around most women (but I don't see myself as better than them) since I'm a lesbian and don't jive with ways to meet lesbians online (I've posted about this in other threads >>315277), and in-person is difficult too. Reading about past lesbian history never resonated much with me either.

My dysphoria as an adult isn't about internalized misogyny or wanting "male privilege" (when I believed in gender ideology, I had transman friends who couldn't pass as a man no matter how hard they tried, so I figured that would be me if I ever transed), but I was in therapy as a teenager and young adult for abuse I went through at a young age. I think my bodily sex dysphoria is a matter of "the body keeping the score" of the trauma (I own that book, by the way), since my child self scrambled to find an answer of what's wrong with me, and wanting to be a boy was one of the answers. After puberty, I felt more like a "third gender" due to ostracization for being suspected as a lesbian (I'm not butch or masculine, I used to be a feminine child). However, as a grown adult, I notice most people past 25 don't care about or have social dynamics like that anymore, so my "social" or "gender identity" disturbances are gone. But even when unpacking my trauma when I could afford therapy, seeing women as people, reading feminist theory, getting in touch with my body, I feel this way even more. It's a mental disorder.

I relate to Gen Zs with ROGD even though my story doesn't match up, I've only met less than 10 transpeople in real life and being gay wasn't remotely "cool" when I was in school, or even now. I just went online as an isolated, closeted lesbian and learned about all these queer theory terms by myself. I also knew I would never make a convincing transman or genderqueer/agendered androgynous person due to my body type. I just see it as a symptom of PTSD and not a feeling I was born with the right body parts. If someone offered me a chance to get a full sex change and I would be 100% a man (not a transman with a fake penis, but a male) for free, I would refuse, because I was born a woman for a reason. But it's hard to find women (or even men, I'm sympathetic to some detransitioned gay moids since I relate to them wanting to be straight) who feel this way, because it's either "I was born the wrong sex and have the brain of a man" or "I was a NLOG/self-hating butch lesbian/joined Tumblr at 13 got caught in the wrong crowd and was brainwashed by society" (I know not all detransitioners are like this, but these are the common trends I see) with little in between.

No. 319403

This was it for me as well. I didn't want to be a woman because I felt unsafe living as one after all of the objectification and unwanted advances from old men I experienced as a child. I was only able to detransition after I realized what was going on and that these labels weren't going to protect me, especially since there was little chance of me passing as anything but a woman.
A lot of what I experienced was culturally influenced as well, which makes it even harder for me to find others who understand what I went through, why I transitioned, and my reasons for detransitioning. I've only met one girl like me, but this kind of background makes it hard to be available with others and although we wanted to be friends, it was just too difficult to keep up contact. I still feel sad about it.

No. 319528

That's relatable, but I kind of knew deep down I'd never be anything else but a woman, so I never bothered. I remember when I was a teenager, all my female friends became TIFs and I envied their "freedom" to declare themselves as transmen or genderqueer, but I was always stuck as this mentally ill woman. I wish the mentality towards women with dysphoria wasn't so black-and-white, for so long I thought I was faking these feelings, since I thought only butch lesbians who were naturally masculine or the stereotypical straight "Gen Z fujoshi who spent too much time on Tumblr" could feel this way.

No. 320373

AYRT, I agree. That's why I make an effort to keep discussing my discomfort with womanhood around friends in terms of dysphoria, even if I've openly detransitioned. It clearly makes some of them roll their eyes thinking that I just went back into the closet or that I'm "appropriating" trans language, but if me being open about being a woman despite how bad it can be living as one helps even one person, I don't care about the rest.
One person has even started subtly dropping "the only thing you need to be trans is to be happier while trans" type messages in public spaces we share after my detransition, and it's so silly. A woman realizing that she can live bravely and be everything she wants while coming to terms with her trauma shouldn't be pushed back into the closet.

No. 320956

i'm unashamedly male-presenting online. everyone assumes im male, and nobody ever suspects a thing. it feels more natural. i can be myself without being judged, or hounded with "positive" attention.
if you are female and have my interests (military history, uniforms, woodworking), hordes of opportunistic scrotes pretend to be your friend to obtain a crumb of coochie. i cant stand the artifice. the guesswork of "do they like me, or do they like my femalehood" is too tiresome. degrading, too. or they dismiss you and your hobbies. the amount of times i was accused of "taking on my boyfriends' interests" amuses me, because i do not date anyone into those things.
unfortunately, male is the default. especially in male spaces. i want to be seen as human, as simply me, and not for my body. hence i am "male".
i know that "being male" is a purely biological matter, and that having male interests doesnt make me a tranny or "malebrained". however, practically speaking, we are socialized differently. taught to talk differently, make different gestures, put on different acts. i fit male socialization, feel more comfortable in it. feel like myself.
the internet offers me the relief of existing as male.
the bad thing though, is that while being openly female will get me no true friendship or camaraderie, being male-presenting and being befriended by "fellow men" makes me feel conflicted. they talk to me like they would to a man, while i am lying to them. at the same time, i enjoy being male. being "me". i know dysphoria is a mental illness, but i do suffer from it, and this knowledge doesnt make my symptoms less real.
i dress butch irl, but make no attempts to "pass as male". i learned to be comfortable with my body. i learned to be comfortable presenting as female, too. i felt like a man in drag at first. i look in the mirror and see a man. since i was a child, i never saw myself as a girl. being a girl was an act. i demanded to wear skirts and two ponytails (not one), so that "people can know im a girl". it was never inherent. it was a conscious effort. i never had a normal understanding of gender as a child.
add later sexual traumas to the mix, self-loathing and vulnerability, and you get a lifelong dysphoric.
rant over, thanks for listening

No. 320963

I did this for years, online in chatting scenarios I am default male or else I second-guess any and all friends. I tried this irl as well for many years but never passed as even gnc honestly it took me till about 2 years ago (I'm 27 now) to be comfortable dressing however I wish and moving to an area that has more women than men.

Has anyone online ever found out/confronted you?

No. 320970

I do this too in online spaces. It protects me/my privacy and I get treated with more respect, especially in hobby forums when I ask for advice and in online gaming. This backfired on me once though. I joined a gaming server (big mistake) and one of the residents moids kinda… latched onto me I guess. All we did was talk in the main chat and play campaigns together with the group but that was enough for him to develop a crush. Long story short he had a huge raging crying sexuality crisis in my dm's and I felt bad and I was young at the time and didn't know what the fuck to do so I told him the truth. He raged out on me even harder and banned me from my group but that was probably for the best. This kind of thing cemented really early on that I can't escape the way men treat me, not even when I'm pretending to be someone else.

No. 320976

Originally posted in the general advice thread but maybe better suited for here:

Posting to LC because I'm afraid if I tell a therapist they will just encourage me to transition. I am 28 and have dealt with autoandrophilia and gender dysphoria for the majority of my life. I was also diagnosed with ASD at 27, widowed at 26 after a seven year long relationship with a man (this will become more relevant later), and have dealt with a hormone imbalance for who knows how long.

Minus the widow part, I know this sounds really typical. But I guess the wildcard is that I wasn't the typical fujoshi you'd expect to troon out eventually. I grew up almost perfectly oblivious to yaoi/BL/fandoms/mlm ships, etc. so I have absolutely no idea where my obsession with gay men came from. I've always enjoyed writing characters and reenacting scenarios in my mind though. It became a form of comfort and escapism for me. The characters I spent the most time developing were two male friends that would eventually become lovers, one was clearly a self-insert/POV sort of thing. I was less concerned with why this idea was so appealing to me and more focused on the warm and fuzzy feeling developing these characters gave me. I had been doing this since the age of 13/14. The dysphoria thing goes back even further, since around the age of 7, I did not feel at home in my own body. To cope with my envy of boys, I used to treat them and anything associated with them with disdain and hostility.

At 18 before I went to college, I decided I did not want a repeat of high school or middle school. I learned to dress and style myself in a way that made me look like a conventionally attractive woman. I enjoyed the validation I received from both men and woman but it always felt like I was putting on a costume. I cycled through many clothing, hair, and makeup styles but nothing felt right and I still felt foreign in my own body.

At 19 I entered my first and only serious relationship. This relationship occupied so much of my of my mental energy that AAP/gender dysphoria were just sort of in the periphery, at least for a few years. I had hinted to these feelings with my partner but never fully expressed their severity. He had encouraged me to experiment with my image but I never did so because I was afraid he wouldn't like me as much if I presented more masculinely, despite what he told me. During sex I would always envision myself as a man, something that I never expressed to him. He was fairly open-minded on a lot of things but that would have freaked him out; he was not very fond of gay men.

Several years into our relationship, my AAP/dysphoria was coming back with full force. It was around this time when my partner had passed away, I was 26 then. Of course AAP/gender dysphoria took a back seat after that since I was grieving so heavily, but it's been almost two years now and it's back again worse than ever. I spend so much time now retreating into my own mind thinking about the characters I once created. I finally told some close friends about them, who encouraged me to start writing the story/illustrating them (this encouragement was innocent enough, these friends just saw it as a creative outlet, not knowing about my struggle with gender identity). The creative process went great for about a month, but now I can't even draw my characters anymore without the burning desire for their reality to be my own. I want to complete this project, but I fear that it's taking its toll on me.

I do have some self-awareness. I realize I've become obsessed with a fictional, self-generated, idealized version of male homosexuality that bears little connection to how men actually are or how their relationships function. I also acknowledge that this interest has been catapulted to obsession in part by the trauma of losing my partner. But the most important part of this all is that I know on a rational level that transitioning is total horseshit. No matter how convincingly someone mutilates their body, they will never be the opposite gender. No matter what I do I will never be a man, let alone a gay man. At least not in this lifetime. Transitioning would be the greediest thing I could do, a slap in the face to all the women who think and feel like me. Someone needs to be the example that we can cope with AAP/gender dysphoria without permanently disfiguring our bodies. I just don't know how to yet. I recently cut my hair and started dressing masculinely. I felt great for like a day but predictably the desire to go further kicked in. I still get triggered every time I see a somewhat-convincing TiF, but realize this feeling is irrational. I want to quit while I'm ahead, I make a great tomboy. I look objectively good with my short hair, cargo pants, and combat boots. I just want to feel as good as I look, and I need to do so without transitioning. I just don't know what to do from here or who to turn to for help.

TL;DR: Coping with autoandrophilia and gender dysphoria but don't want to mutilate my body and betray all women. Don't know what to do from here.

No. 320980

yes. i was 16, and very open about my attraction to men. a guy in our friend circle was homophobic towards me. i eventually told him. he thought its funny and outed me as a tranny to our whole friendship group, making me into a local lolcow. spread lies about me being a TIM.
anyway, i recently learned that he got fired from the airforce for calling someone a "nigger". that gave me some satisfaction. that fucker loved causing drama and beef everywhere he went, and it seems like he never grew out of it.
i feel you so hard. i made friends with a boy in my (usually homophobic) circle of interests, who feels comfortable telling me about his attraction to men. im like his big brother and he treats me as such. i worried that he has a crush on me, because that's how he acted i told him straight away, "listen, youre 17, don't flirt with me. im 23, im not a pedo". so thankfully, he is underage, and i can avoid breaking his little gay heart.
im motivating him to do well in school and warning him about online groomers and such things. the way my older friends online treated me when i was his age. im fond of the kid. im trying to be a good older gay friend. except im, well, not gay.

No. 320982

don't do it. it's not worth it. "transitioning" doesn't cure dysphoria. the relief is temporary. it is a mental illness, and if you try to appease it by giving it a finger, it will demand the whole hand.

No. 320996

Have tried reaching out to other self-aware women with AAP? I lurk r/Detrans and see some FtMtFs who consider themselves "former AAP gay transmen". I've also found a support group for people with autophilia on Reddit too, but it includes AGPs, so I'm not sure if you would be comfortable with that. But women post on it too.

No. 321020

Thanks for the reply. I definitely would like to be able to connect to other women who are coping with AAP. I did some searching around on r/detrans and found some potentially related threads but they are older threads/not very active. I'm not really familiar with Reddit so I'm unsure if I should make my own thread or just message people. Either way I know there are many more women suffering with this and there needs to be more visibility. Couldn't find the autophilia support group but would be interested in checking that out too.

No. 321021

>I'm unsure if I should make my own thread or just message people.
I think it'd be okay to do both, you'll just have to clarify that you're desisted/never transitioned. The Reddit support group is r/AskAGP, so warning, it's male-dominated and not all agree with the sexology theory, but I do see AAP posters there (searching for AAP there yields results). _Laura_Reynolds on Twitter is also openly a detransitioned AAP who tried to be a gay man when she was younger, and has stated in an interview she runs a support group on Discord for people with AGP/AAP, but she's not active on Twitter, so I'm not sure how to contact her privately for a link.

No. 321028

Thank you for the leads, anon, much appreciated. Checked Laura's Twitter and she does seem to be on hiatus as of last month. I'll see if I can track down the link but this all seems like a good starting point.

No. 321030

laura reynolds talked about having aap, think you can find vids of her on youtube. i didn't listen to this episode but i remember watching some of her vids

No. 321231

This is just a father mocking his daughter for her discomfort over her body… how is that funny again?

No. 321417

I desisted like a year ago but I still get a lot of dysphoric thoughts. Extremely weird and retarded shit such as:

>There's no hope for me as a female, I'm a failed woman

>I'll never be able to relate to other women
>I'll always be too scrotish/masculine, I may be actually "male-brained" in the end
>I'd look more attractive with a flat chest, facial hair and narrow hips
>Medical transition is gruesome and I'll never be a real man, but if I try my best to larp as a moid I might actually escape misogyny in the end so why not try it
>Being female makes me weak and vulnerable, I want to be strong like a man
>I want my male friends to see me as their real homie, instead of just that one tomboyish female friend

I know all of this is extremely irrational and wrong, and I'm very thankful I desisted before attempting to poison myself with T, but those thoughts keep coming back again and I just don't know how to deal with them besides just telling myself "oh yeah that's retarded, you're out of that cringe phase now". How do you nonnas handle this kind of stuff ? I've always pretended I'm perfectly happy with being a woman since got out of the troon meme, but it's just not true (and I don't think it's true for any woman living in that shitty moid's world tbh).

No. 321689

I detransitioned a year ago too and still get similar thoughts. I don't know either how to get rid of those thoughts, but I guess just like with other mental illnesses you just got to learn to deal with them. And maybe one day those thoughts disappear. Every time I think that I feel like a man I remind myself that I am a woman because I have a womans body.
I still feel like an outsider with women and like I don't fit in, so I have gotten new hobbies that mostly have only women there, so I can meet different types of women and maybe connect with them and see myself in them. And to focus on what do I have in common with these women instead of thinking how I'm so different from them. I guess I don't really have any actual answers but I just want to say that you are not alone and there are women like you.

No. 323901

I don't know if this is the right place to ask about this, but how do you leave the shame of your gendie days behind you? Luckily, most of my actual stupid shit was contained to the internet aside from a few friends I met IRL (I masked well as a normie in my social life even while IDing as a genderspecial). But I get sick with embarrassment now in my mid twenties thinking about what an ardent TRA I was and all of the stupid pornsick shit I discussed with people online.
Since finally accepting I'm a lesbian, I've actually completely normified and can't tolerate ugly oversexualized anime shit and lost all interest in things like yaoi and other less mentionable depravity. But knowing that it happened and that I ever discussed it with people disgusts me to my core. I want to cut my old self off.

No. 323905

I used to be in pornsick anime communities and used to look and talk about disgusting stuff. Nowaday I am not ashamed to talk about it with the right peoples because I understand how wrong it was for my perception of sexuality. Maybe it could help you to see it as a form of grooming/endocrination, even being pushed to accept ideas like " no kink shame " to stop people from thinking about the deeper implications and effects it can have.

No. 323937

That's all internalized misogyny. You associate woman with a description, so when you don't fit that description you feel you're not a woman. Women are adult human females, nothing more or less. That's why TIMs always look like clowns no matter how much bimbofication surgery and sissy hypno and porny outfits they have. If you went through every surgery and feminization treatment that Robbie White has gone through, you would be just as much of a woman as you are now, whereas he's still a man no matter what he does. You will never be a man, and thank god you realized that before it was too late. I'd advise therapy but these days chances are you'd be told to troon out. Maybe focus on exploring why you feel so insecure in your own body, and what you can do to love and accept yourself as you are.

No. 325723

Have you nonas been to therapy after detransition? What kind of therapy and has it helped?
I have tried to get in to therapy, but instead I was offered sexual counselling. None of my problems were related to sexuality, so it really came out of the blue. But apparently since TRA's have been advocating for it, now all "gender identity issues" have to be treated and affirmed in sexual therapy in my country. Now I feel scared to even try again, I feel like I have now fully lost my trust in mental health professionals. So instead I'm trying to get approved for horse therapy which I think will help me to connect with my body. But it wont probably heal my problems with my thought patterns etc.
It feels like the whole system has let me down, because I was in therapy before when I was identifying as trans and it really did nothing for me. No one questioned my trans identity or tried to find the root cause for my trans identity. So I have spent half of my life depressed and I grew up with going to therapy (that didn't even address the cause for my depression which was related to the reason why I was so disconnected from my body in the first place.) and now that I'm an adult, I have no support, I have the same issues that I had ten years ago as a child and I have no idea how I'm supposed to live a normal life.

No. 329594

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i get why other women hate female detrans but it is so ostracizing sometimes. i was a stupid kid, i got approved for T literally immediately after my 16th birthday, the earliest possible time for me to do so, and i think i will always feel ashamed and hopeless for how im treated nowadays. a decision affirmed by my parents, doctor, and two therapists who id told my female specific trauma to, and now im a stupid forever-tranny who apparently will never be desirable and who will always be the subject of jokes etc. it's like being a lesbian in high school all over again. i literally have a butch partner and ive had success in the dating scene because i guess some women like really masculine butches, but my fucking god the harassment ive gotten as well is insane. it's like homophobic or anti-gnc straight women used troons as a scapegoat to continue to harass and demean what they just don't understand. i hate to self pity but it drives me insane sometimes.
i can live with being ugly or an outcast but there is so little compassion for mentally ill girls out there, especially among other women. i really don't understand what other women get out of shaming and harassing mentally ill girls that they have some false sense of superiority over. like even in the TIF threads it appalls me that farmers on here go after girls who aren't even sixteen. it's such scrote shit. sexual abuse and gendie shit go hand in hand in making you a pariah, and despite how ready some women are to point out misogyny wherever they find it they are NOT immune to projecting that same shit back onto other, normally more vulnerable, women. it's a viciously misogynistic world and we really don't need more of it.
>>325723 i personally haven't had any success, ive been trying to get treatment for my trauma and i keep getting redirected to gender dysphoria treatments that seem intent on chopping my tits off and re-pumping me full of the shit that almost gave me osteoporosis. if you've been diagnosed with GD try to get it off your record. it's basically ruined my experience in the medical and mental health fields and has even stopped me from donating blood because of my "gender problems" - despite the fact ive been off T for years.

No. 329644

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We have very similar stories. I started T at 17 but was seeing doctors at 13 or 14. I was 22 when I stopped T and I'm in my mid 20s now. Although every year I see I'm making progress with life, it doesn't get any easier on the acceptance and peace front. I remember first coming out, being on a detrans discord to help navigate what I was facing and the older detrans women saying I wouldn't keep my "it just didn't work for me, other trans people are valid!" turning the other cheek pickme mantra for very long. I was convinced they were wrong but now I don't have patience anymore when I see tweets or tiktoks (which I don't even use) with dozens of thousands of likes bullying us, and even more hundreds of thousands of views. It's bleak for us. I'm done having patience for them because they don't have any for us, they refuse any dialogue, they refuse to hear our stories at all. It's the worst from TIFs but handmaidens and even other radfems/farmers aren't exempt from contempt. I just feel really bad for the girls and women posted in the TIF thread, even when they're acting retarded, because I don't believe teen girls troon out from "gender euphoria". I was a CSA victim but I'm sure a lot of them, especially the extremely histrionic ones, have been through much worse and refuse to face it.
Bullying us will completely come back to bite them. There'll be another wave of detransitioners (like a couple years ago) soon and I wanna say I'll leave them on their own for all the shit they're putting us through right now, but I have too much empathy not to help sisters who realize they're in the same predicament as me.

I don't even have anywhere to vent. Lcf is the only place where I can find some sanity. I miss my breasts. I miss my voice. I fucking hate shaving all this dumb body hair in dumb places just so people don't comment on it. I'm scared I'll get cervical/ovarian cancer. I hate people asking if I'm a TIM. I hate how uncomfortable they look when I explain I'm detrans. I feel like I'm never going to be able to relate to other women again, like they'll always be better than me at being women. I don't even date women anymore because I'm afraid I'll gross them out. I'm sick of ugly males and feeling like they're doing me a favor. I'm sick of penetration hurting even since I got off T. I developed a dumb fucking painkiller addiction because they're the only thing that makes all these thoughts and trauma-related pain stop. I'm just afraid that's what's gonna take me out.

I don't know where to put all this resentment and disgust I feel towards the entire world that enabled a traumatized, mentally ill teenage girl to mutilate herself irreversibly. Most of all I feel so upset that I'm never gonna be able to tell my story without being dragged, cancelled and bullied. Fucking Buck Angel wanted to have me on a podcast/channel and I refused because I don't wanna put on the clown nose just cause it's handed to me. I don't wanna be entertainment for a right-wing audience. It's like we don't exist as people, just as political pawns when it suits anyone.
I often think of suicide but I love my friends, family and career too much for it. It's just so hard to exist right now.

No. 329681

NTA and I'm not detrans so apologies for poking my head in here, but I was scrolling past and saw that you can get GD off your record? I got diagnosed with it years ago when I was hospitalised, and ever since then I've had therapists trying to sell me this idealistic vision of transgenderism when I talk about the treatment I get as a butch lesbian. Do you know how to go about getting that off my record?

No. 329683

>I just feel really bad for the girls and women posted in the TIF thread, even when they're acting retarded, because I don't believe teen girls troon out from "gender euphoria". I was a CSA victim but I'm sure a lot of them, especially the extremely histrionic ones, have been through much worse and refuse to face it.
I stopped browsing a lot of trans threads for this reason, despite being pretty strongly GC. TIFs aren't exempt from criticism, but it makes me feel like the same sentiments about them being stupid, brainwashed girls are extended to me by proxy. My gender identity disturbances came from CSA and getting gay bashed as a teenager, of course I wouldn't want to grow up to be a woman, let alone a lesbian anymore. I've had radfems talk down to me and my other friends who have detransitioned and say "just go to therapy instead" but the vast majority of therapists are trained to be affirming, and the ones who aren't come from a Christian/conversion therapy angle (it's legal where I live). Transgender is a new profitable form of pharma, so of course therapists will support it.

No. 329704

How do you cope with the loneliness of detransition? I didn't realize how many friendships hinged on me being trans and having/representing the "correct" views on gender and it's hard to stick to my guns when it's resulted in me being all alone.

No. 329712

I'm really sorry that you and everyone else in this thread and outside of it are exploited so thoroughly and then pushed away by everyone. I'll defend dysphoric women with all my might wherever I am, as a butch I promise you that. If anyone like me is reading this thread, start doing your part. Don't let them go through it all alone. Stand up to retarded rafdem types trying to punch down on TiFs especially, they think they're immune to critique.

No. 329714

NTA but medical records are private and can't be shared without your consent. unless you're going to the same hospital they should have no idea what your record is unless you release it to them. I often change doctors because I move a lot and the new ones have no idea what I told the old ones. I got a bipolar diagnosis once (we weren't sure but he gave me the diagnosis so I could be prescribed lamictal); turns out it didn't help and I'm likely not bipolar. it's somewhere on record that I'm bipolar at that clinic, but I don't go there anymore or live in that city and I don't tell every new doctor that I got prescribed with bipolar because it wouldn't be helpful.

No. 329716

samefag adding on:
if there's something you want a new doctor to know so you can get continued treatment/prescriptions, often you can just tell them you have already been diagnosed with that thing instead of releasing your whole record to them. they'll usually believe you. will probably ask to see your record if it's something complicated but you can just say you totally will get that to them and then never do it. it's not like they'll turn away your business. (speaking as am american here, not sure about other places)

No. 329729

Thanks for the reply, anon. I'm in the UK, but I imagine things are similar here. I have several long-term health issues that are quite complex, so I have to share my records when I switch doctors, but I'm wondering if the mental health team need to see my records. As it's a different department, I might get away with just telling them my mental issues and leaving out dysphoria. I'll be switching to a different surgery when I move house later this year, so when I ring them up, I'll ask them about their policy on who gets to see my record.

No. 329734

Good question. I'm wondering the same. At the start of my detransition I lost so many friends who never even were trans, just because I said that biology is real. I haven't gotten new ones yet, but once I do, I probably wont tell them about my trans history. Or if I will, I wont tell them how I view this whole issue now. I think it's best to try to keep yourself busy with hobbies and such. Detransitioning is difficult, but I'm sure one day it gets better.

No. 329763

I wonder how it works in the UK. You have the NHS so does that mean they automatically share your records with your current provider or…?

No. 329921

I wish I could give you a big hug right now.
I'm not detrans but I have a friend who was in a similar situation. I have seen too many friends who became tif because of trauma.

Fuck buck angel trying to make a coin of your back while playing the game of the good trans even tho she clearly choose to transition because of homophobia.
Love you nonna, please keep being strong.

No. 332166

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Sending good luck and love to all detrans nonas. I was a tomboy as a kid, had a handmaiden phase as a teen and pretended to be a boy online, "luckily" I leaned more towards the ED side instead of trans side, but I know we're all two sides of the same coin. Being female is hard. I hate that this happened for each and every one of you. We'll never meet but I'm angry on your behalf and I've got your back. Your life isn't over, you'll get better friends who love you for who you are and not who you pretend to be or what ideology you follow. Look into detrans-supportive organisations like genspect if you need help to detransition. If you feel brave enough write blogs, make videos, expose the medical professional people who hurt you, you can do it all anonymously without showing your face and each story really helps. But most of all - heal and thrive.

No. 332276

It's been over 12 weeks since I filed a court order to change my name and gender back, and still no updates. It only took two weeks to change things when I originally transitioned. I hope the judge is just busy but I'm paranoid that they're intentionally discriminating against me. It's frustrating and I hate being in this weird in-between place where I've only been able to partially detransition.

I was on T for over 5 years and lived as a man for 4 and a half years. I watched the trans community get more and more unhinged during this time, as I slowly accumulated health problems resulting from the T, and I eventually reached a breaking point. While my health has improved somewhat since I stopped taking T, I feel like now I'm just stuck living as an incomplete woman with no breasts or uterus. I don't know what my future looks like. I don't know how to move forward in my career (I've been unemployed for months) or in my life in general.

What made me do it in the first place? It was partly body dysmorphia (i.e. obsessing for years over my hips being too wide, face too round, torso too narrow, boobs too big even as a c cup), partly thinking that my personality was unacceptable for my gender (I have aspergers like traits/symptoms although I was never assessed for this), and partly due to sexism and sexual harassment (although I will only ever admit that anonymously).
I was never a true believer in the "born this way" narrative, I just believed that the benefits of transition outweigh the costs for some people with gender dysphoria. I enjoyed living as a man and wasn't too bothered being perceived as an effeminate man, so it was all good for a while. It was the heart problems and the constant physical pain that really messed me up. The frequent stabbing uterine pain lead me to getting hysto which I didn't strictly need, then I developed serious vaginal atrophy which lead to even more pain. I worry about everyone else who's taking T now. There's so much pressure from the trans community to put on a euphoric face and pretend these treatments are "literally lifesaving" miracles. I know it's bullshit but I've destroyed my credibility by detransitioning so I feel like I can't speak out.

No. 332353

I've presented as male online for almost 20 years and it's starting to fuck with me.

I have no real friendships in real life and haven't invested in myself at all, but I've never transitioned because I've always understood that that wouldn't solve my problems. Offline I dress masc/androgynous (but I am fat with some kind of hormonal disorder so I just read like an ugly woman), don't wear makeup, and have several non-crippling health issues that are undiagnosed but have been decimating my quality of life. I do have a job and am independent enough to live alone, but I've never dated, asked anyone out/been asked out, and have had no sexual or romantic interest in anyone or anything, from puberty through college to now, with one exception–the idea of being a man in a straight relationship. But I'm not a man in real life and never will be, so that is an unactionable 'sexuality' and I don't think I'm actually attracted to either sex. The very concept of potentially being viewed as a sexual creature myself repulses and enrages me.

As a child I lived in a very socially/culturally isolated place with Muslim family where I had no female family members to play with (and was not allowed to play with the male ones) so I turned to the internet for my social needs at around 10 years old. I knew instinctively that letting the internet know I was female would not end well for me so I started taking measures to hide this fact. This lead naturally to the assumption that I was male, something I never corrected, and which followed me everywhere I went online for over a decade as old friendships bled into new ones and my personality and views developed into something more masculine. To this day I refuse to place pronouns on any of my profiles (in part because I strongly disagree with the gendie-normalization that doing so represents) but the assumption that I am male, typically an older male, persists. Early on there was a period where I was open about being female among other girls online, but I remember the panic I felt when one of my friends from that time found my post-masculinized deviantart profile and left me an excited comment on it that unfortunately used the word 'girl' to refer to me, causing me to delete it.

In all this time, multiple women have told me they have a crush on me (probably over a dozen by now) and I've just had to let them down. I've been too afraid to 'come out' to anyone because I have no other friends and I'm afraid they'll all reject me or feel betrayed if they learn the truth. If I could just be a man I would choose that, but it isn't possible. I have legitimately considered going on T, but only so I can use voice chat.

I feel like I was forced to pretend to be something I'm not for my own safety and psychological well-being (specifically, not being alone as a child) and now I'm stuck with it. I literally don't fit in anywhere–as a woman, as a man, with women, with men, in radfem spaces, in religious spaces or among the gendie cult. None of my friends are friends with me, they're friends with my digital projection of me. I don't want to drop everything and start over again because the thought of having to essentially remake my online persona is exhausting and demotivating. Socializing at all is too much effort, and I barely try now. No doctor or therapist has been able to understand, let alone help me.

I feel as though I am not real and often I wish to be released from this mortal coil, but thankfully I do not consider killing myself an option or I would have done it long ago. The better option would be trying to cultivate a real life for myself, but I have no idea where to begin.

I didn't mean for this post to get so large, but I hope that at least it might offer an ounce of solace to others who may have experienced something similar and feel as alone as I do.

No. 332541

I detransed just over a year ago, and I’m trying to get my current partner to detrans as well. She’s amazing, she’s sweet, funny, super cute, but she ids as ftm, that’s how we met, because I identified the same. I had my eyes opened though, and I’m slowly trying to help her get out too, now that we’re dating. She’s so similar to my own reasons for wanting to transition, so I know I can get her out since she trusts me, and I know her better than anyone. So far, I’ve warmed her up to me calling us lesbians (something she said would cause dysphoria a year ago, but is now warmed up to). I just know I can help her the same way I was helped, I hope I don’t lose her over this

No. 332542


Samefag, but I haven’t talked about my own detrans here either. I guess I always felt uncomfortable being forced into femininity, in a way that society wanted me to be. I liked dolls, and other girly things, but also boy things, like guns and dinosaurs, so of course, zoomer gender cult caught me “so you’re not a girl, you’re a boy or enby.” This fucked me up later with puberty, I got a chest I didn’t want, which hurt a lot, and made me feel weird in my body, I had body dysmorphia which was confused as dysphoria. For reference, I was super skinny with giant boobs. I never wanted bottom surgery, and I dressed masc, so I was perfect to be a “twink Femboy transmasc”
My mom is the one responsible for my detrans, and I love her for it. I was originally gonna get complete top surgery, but she was kind, and offered to help pay for a reduction, not full removal, to see if that would help my body feel better. I went from H cups to B cups, and I’ve never felt better. It was that surgery that made me realize my “dysphoria” was just insecurity from badly proportioned boobs, and that how I look now is just as I feel comfy, where I look proportionate to my size, and dress gnc. I slowly backed away from being trans, and embraced being a gnc woman.

No. 338946

Wow nonnie this give me flashback to my childhood, when my irl friends would use female pronouns in mixed sex online situations even tho I would pretend to be male. What made me able to transition to healthy irl friendship was hobbies, especially meet up around specific passions I had. If you are artistically inclined it could be things such as small local art exhibitons or markets to talk with people your age with similar interest. Best luck to you nonnie

No. 338954

i was one of those tifs that said i was a male despite being extremely feminine from ages 12-18, i think it was just a way for me to feel more accepted by my online peers instead of just being a femme lesbian. anyways i have so many horror stories as i was active in my local TRA communities, being groomed by a severely mentally ill 70 y/o autogynephilic who was supposed to be a ‘group leader/President’ when i was 15/16 among one of them (it never got physical i noped the fuck out after one too many times of creepy flirty/sexual questions and requests to meet about ‘group activities’ alone) One of the things I will never forget is the year one of my organizations created a ‘kids’ group for ages 7-11 year olds instead of the usual teen group 12-17 and i was freshly 18 and responsible for their well-being. There was a TIM child that was 11 years old that I was caring for and he started having a panic attack when someone mentioned pregnancy and was actively suicidal over the fact he could not carry children. It was absolutely mental illness, I can’t imagine any female 11 year old thinking this deeply about their future/marriage and children. I reported they told me they wanted to kill themselves to my superiors and their plan of action was to get one of the supervisors that was a RN and a non-binary TIF and she straight up lied to this little boy and was like ‘you’re young by the time you’re an adult and want kids uterine transplants will probably be commonplace and you’ll have kids on your own.’ I can’t believe I seemingly didn’t have a moral objection to this at the time and it’s only horrifying looking back.

No. 338996

This is extremely disturbing. That poor kid is in for a rough life. Why do some people seemingly want to make kids suffer by pushing them down this path?

No. 345677

>What made you do it?

Childhood abuse, trauma, depression. I felt like I had no other choice if I wanted to be happy.

>What made you go back?

Developing my own opinions on holistic health and realizing that what I was doing to myself, was unhealthy and unnatural. That, and my hairline receding

No. 346807

How do you stop seeing transition as the only solution? What are the other options? I've been in talk therapy for 5 years and it hasn't changed this. Actually it probably made me think even more so that transitioning is the only solution to the mental pain, the envy of males' bodies and how their fashion looks on a flat figure, the jealousy of men getting to exist freely as mediocre goofs and still being desired, the trauma and sick repulsion around my private parts to the point where I no longer have a libido, the social anxiety of my voice not matching my masculine appearance, the embarrassment of being perceived as a sex that is so objectified, the social anxiety of revealing my feminine facial features by taking off my pandemic mask that I'm still wearing post-pandemic, the paralysing fear of revealing my female body parts by taking off the binder. Now I know what it feels like to be seen as and treated as a male because I already pass with a mask on, I can't go back. I just spent over £400 on a gender dysphoria assessment scheduled for a couple months from now. That kind of money isn't nothing for me. I've done everything I can to put it off. I waited 11 years for this and resisted the entire time, because logically I'm on the side of gender critical radical feminism. I just can't get rid of the gender dysphoria or find a way to live in this world with theory. It feels like I'm one of those disco zombie snails that's been taken over by a parasite. Even when I know I don't want to fuck a woman with a plastic dick (not a strap, I really mean one of the realistic replacement penises sold at trans shops like Emisil), even when I know I don't want to be desired by a woman as a man and that I'd secretly resent her for playing along. Even when I naturally only connect to lesbian relationships but I've so mentally distanced myself from my body it doesn't seem possible to enter one anymore. I don't like that the connection I want with women usually hinges on shared femininity or else you get othered. I've tried to be feminine in the past and it's not worth it. This seriously feels like I'm disassociating further and further into trans identity to cope with something I can't cope with otherwise. I started to buy into the idea I have a medical condition and need to remove myself from female spaces and accept it, because how else could someone be this fucked up?

Everything sucks so much. I showed up to therapy for 5 years ready to be vulnerable and get help. Both of my therapists have been gender critical probably because I was and they felt comfortable opening up about their real views, and I'm still in contact with them. They're telling me to seek trauma therapy. Why now? Why now when I'm so far removed from the trauma I can't bare to identify with the female body which experienced it at all? The problem with trauma therapy is it locates the trauma as existing within women and tries to mend it on an individual basis, but when that trauma is healed, trust there will be another one and another and another. I can't help but find it misogynistic to treat women just to send them back into a society that's going to do the same thing again. The little misogynies add up too, especially when you know what it's like not to have to deal with them. Transitioning feels like throwing away the whole package deal that comes with being a woman, like antibiotics that have to kill the good bacteria to eradicate the bad.

No. 346830

I’m way too tired to make a coherent reply, but a couple of thoughts. Your brain is plastic. The more you hyperfocus on this issue, the more you are training your brain to reinforce this pattern of thinking. I'm speaking from experience, I literally trained my brain to see myself as a boy whenever I looked in the mirror. Anyway, if you were never exposed to trans ideology your feelings towards your body would likely be vastly different. Yes the world would still be misogynistic, but you hopefully you would have developed coping skills other than obsessing about transing which is literally a popularly accepted delusion, but a delusion nonetheless. I think distancing yourself from the internet and exposure to trans/gender related issues can be helpful (I know, almost impossible these days but let's be honest most of us can benefit from less internet exposure). For trauma therapy look into edmr, it can be much more effective than talk therapy, even after such a long time.

>I've tried to be feminine in the past and it's not worth it

Typical gender indoctrinated take. Who says you have to be feminine just because you're a woman.

No. 346859

Transition is not a "solution" in any way shape or for nona. It's a extremely unhealthy deranged coping mechanism that is controlled by other people's views of you. But you can't actually control other people's views of you, as you know from this site people are rolling their eyes in secret, or if they're friends and family they're in constant pain over what you've done to yourself without them being able to help or stop you, even if they're polite to your face.
I wish you could find some butch lesbian and gnc friends to show you its fine to be a "masculine" woman (why is a natural variation of woman even called masculine? Butched have ALWAYS existed naturally and is an exclusively female experience).

All that happens if you transition is that you have all the same problems but now your body is permanently fucked up and all your money will go to medical treatments for the rest of your life. Please don't hurt yourself this way nona, you're worth so much more.

No. 346928

I never got to the point where I was close to doing it (mostly because I'll never pass and already have a family history of health issues) but I relate so much. Especially the part about trauma therapy, even with a trained therapist specialized in SA trying to "unpack it" made my body discomfort so much worse. A friend of mine detransitioned and despite living my "dream life" of a "passing straight transman" there's all the social and health issues attached, lying to strangers and family, etc. Because even if you look like a man in public, you're still a woman and at risk for the same violence if you get found out. I've gotten advice that connecting with butch/gnc lesbians in real life helps with this but I don't have ways of finding that and talking to radfems online ended in feeling like an idiot for having these feelings in the first place. I have GC views but I ultimately don't resonate with feminist/lesbian history, but becoming a man is impossible. I really hope you find a healthier answer.

No. 348889

I keep seeing nonas here say how disgusting tifs bodies are. How big clits are ugly and gross, the voices are frog-like and how mastectomy scars are hideous. It makes me feel disgusted of my body. I didn't choose this, I was a child when I transitioned and every professional I met only affirmed me. I'm in my early 20s now and feel like I have ruined my body. I detransitioned nearly two years ago and I don't think anyone can even tell that I grew up as a tif. But still every time I speak, I cringe. I don't think my voice sounds frog-like, but it sounds deep and weird. I have to shave my face everyday. I have never had sex and I feel like I probably won't, since I'm so ashamed of my clit being bigger. I wish someone had told me that I was a girl and not keep affirming my belief that I was "born in the wrong body" so didn't have to ruin my body like this.

No. 348891

Frogs are great which means that frog voices are cool too.
I don't mind mastectomy scars or any scars in general (shfag).
Big clits are interesting and they're not actually painful/dangerous like penises are, so it's fun without the horror.
Hope this helps you nona. I unironically want to date a TIF, as a cis woman. Too bad almost all of them are "mlm" (straighties).

No. 348901

maybe you would be happy if you stopped treating your feelings like a drug addiction or sinful behavior and just take t and call yourself whatever you want and stop working yourselves into knots over it being wrong just because mtfs do the same thing

"i just feel like im not good enough or feminine enough to call myself a woman" wonder if theres another group that might relate to those feelings lol(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 348903

>take t
what about the health effects tho. also you can't actually change sex so even with t you would just be a roided woman not male, which causes the feeling that "it's not enough" leading to chasing the magic dragon with more and more body mods and surgeries and never being truly happy

No. 348904

At the height of my dysphoria I remember considering going on T without socially transitioning, because I thankfully wasn’t mentally insane enough to believe you can actually change sex and I felt bad about making everyone around me adhere to my personal delusion. I thought hormones would make me feel more comfortable in my body, but I sure am glad now I never did them. Like others said there are too many serious potential health effects, and besides I am more or less free of dysphoria now, which is proof it's possible to overcome gender dysphoria without transitioning.

I’m a shortie and my given name is insanely feminine, so in one way it would have been kinda funny and ~subversive~ telling people I am a cis girl named Alice while looking like a roided up monkey.

No. 348931

I am not trying to minimize your pain, but part of healing as a detransitioner should be learning to care less what other people think of you. Okay some annoying people say this stuff about TIFs, it doesn't have to change how you feel about yourself. You know what happened to you and how far you've come. A lot of detransitioners worry about dating, but it seems like a lot of the big ones have still been finding partners. So focus on healing yourself and that kind of companionship may or may not come.

No. 348950

Why are you in a detransitioners thread telling women they're trans and should transition to be happy like good unfeminine women? Who do you think you're supporting by condescendingly telling us to shut up and take testosterone to get in line with the other group we supposedly belong to for feeling this way… Any resistance to injecting an irreversible, dangerous prescription to treat a feeling isn't just a prudeish fear of sinning.

No. 348970

Can you imagine telling someone who'd have quit a drug after a decade of ruining their life "maybe you'd be happier if you went back on the drug"? It's not just that it's wrong, it's that it damaged my body well past what most people would sue over.

No. 349042

We also say that, despite everything they put their bodies through, they're undoubtedly female. Their eyes are feminine, their body shapes are feminine, their interests are feminine, even the way they dress is feminine. No matter how croaky your voice is, or how bad your scars are, or how your clit looks, you still come across as a woman.
The tif thread is also full of posters saying how sad and fucked up these girls' situations are. Nobody, especially not a moid, cares about clitoris size; we mock tifs who call it a dick and send nudes to actual gay men. If your mastectomy is fucking you up mentally, talk to someone about it- sometimes there's enough breast tissue left to regenerate some of the breasts, or you could consider implants if you feel that's the best option. There's not a lot that can be done about the voice but I've heard speech therapy can help to some extent. Laser will definitely help with the facial hair.
Chin up, nona. You've made it out of the cult, that's the hardest part. Now that you're here, live your life for yourself, not for other people.

No. 349104

>feel like im not good enough or feminine enough to call myself a woman
>just transition then lul
You’re the exact sort of sexist freaks that caused such suffering, jump off a bridge

No. 349165

I honestly think that media is largely to blame for my earlier feelings. I could never relate to female characters in the past because they were always written as "feminine" (whereas male characters are rarely explicitly written as masculine, they can be everything) and I am neither expressive, nor social, very emotional nor do I like "female" fashion, flowers, sweets or whatever else they associate with women.

It got better during the last decade and you are more likely to find female characters that are more diverse regarding their personalities. Lone wolves can be women too. Up to this day I think that niche anime and cartoons do it much better than live action and books though. Seems like only the fewest writers are capable of writing a woman without making her plot be about family shit, romances or kids in some way.

It's especially annoying considering how common tomboys are. Almost none of the girls from my elementary school class were particularly girly, I never knew anybody that played with barbies either or any of that.

No. 349189

Remember that anons are mean about tifs because they hate the trans cult for doing this to you. No one actually cares what another woman's clit size is, but they care that those women are acting like it's suddenly a real dick that gay men have to accept, or that forcing poor kids into taking drugs that give them one for no reason is valid trutrans and not just straight up child abuse.
A lot of people find deep female voices hot, and tomboys usually don't have trouble dating either so you're probably fine nona. The ugly part is the delusions, the lies and the cult mindset that makes them harm people without a second thought. You already made it out of that!

No. 349558

I love feminine things and always have, but I feel like I'm wearing a costume just doing what I want to do after so many years of obsessive gender thoughts. I'm more comfortable with my body now though, I do like being a woman. It doesn't help that I don't have friendships with women since I've moved.I can't tell what's wrong with me at this point to still feel this way.

No. 349581

Nonnie, that feeling is common even amongst women who aren't trans. Just wear and do whatever you want. I promise no one is thinking about if your feminine expression looks like a costume.

No. 349587

thank you, you're right. I figure that 'faking it' feeling is just repackaged internalized sexism, I just hope I grow out of it

No. 349671

>I feel like I'm wearing a costume just doing what I want to do after so many years of obsessive gender thoughts
Consider how hard it is for people who grew up in a church to leave it even when they've lost faith. They now know god won't punish them for showing their ankles or indulging in something "sinful" like rock n roll music (kek) but they have that old guilt lingering in the back of their minds for a long time. Actively going against it and doing what you want will help! Retrain your brain into having good healthy thoughts instead

No. 349738

Sorry if this isn't the right thread, but I really need to get this off my chest. I can't help but feeling like trooning out is inevitable for me and that I'm just putting it off. I'm butch, already considered "hypermasculine" to some because of my build and style. I used to hate being like this, I'd see fem women who love their style and think "damn, why aren't I like that?". But I feel like an alien in feminine clothes. Years ago when I was hospitalised whilst visiting my mother, she brought me some of her nightgowns to wear because of the itchy hospital gowns. They were pink and purple and had things like "diva" or "princess" written on them. I remember sitting in a waiting room with one on; hairy arms and legs on display. Shaved head, stubble from PCOS. I looked and felt like a fucking MTF. The stares I got were far from approving, I wanted the ground to swallow me whole. Since then, I've actually done some work on embracing who I am and how I look. I got a skincare routine, I got a great haircut that suits my face. I eat healthy and workout daily with a focus on building muscle. I buy myself tailored suits and shirts, dress real classy most of the time. I feel wonderful! But there's always this demon in the back of my head whispering "Look, you already get read as male a lot of the time. You dress like a male. Nobody views you as a real woman. Just admit you're trans and live a happy life as a straight guy." even during happy times this demon is always fucking there; before I go to sleep, when I wake up, whenever my mind wanders in the day. Also, I often have sex dreams where I have a penis. I'm still me, my breasts are still there, but I'm a bio male I guess? idk. It doesn't help that a lot of my sexual and romantic partners have treated me like Male Lite. They expect me to exclusively use a strap-on, be dominant, to rough house them. Those things can be enjoyable, sure. But it's warped my brain a bit, I think. Those same women also called me "over emotional", claiming that I came across as stoic at the beginning, but it turned them off when I expressed that more emotionally complex side of myself. I think the "stoic" expectations partially come from me being autistic, as it takes me a while to warm to someone and start talking more about my thoughts and feelings; but I know deep down they're expecting me to perform that male role in their hetero fantasy; and when I fall short of that I'm cast aside. Thankfully, I have a wonderful wife now. She fully accepts every facet of my personality and we're a great match. Our sex life feels balanced, I don't feel exploited like I used to because we're genuinely making love. It's just us, no roles or expectations. You'd think that would help, but those goddamn demons still haunt me. The biggest thing holding me back from actually testing the waters and trying to live as a man besides my wife and family is my faith. I had a strict Jewish upbringing, but also have Muslim relatives, so there was always this presence of God and Allah around me and the expectations that come with that. I'm a born again Christian, but I've been studying Buddhism and Hinduism, looking for some wisdom to fix my broken brain. My faith wavers, my beliefs differ to the vast majority of Christians. But I do believe God made me this way. He made me a female homosexual who prefers to dress in a masculine manner. If I troon out, I'm betraying the life path He set out for me. But then I look at myself in the mirror and think "I should be a man, I should be a man, I should be a man". 32 years old and the foundation of my life - my identity - is falling apart. I don't know how many more years I got left in me if this is how it's gonna be.

No. 349757

Nona sweetie I'm a fellow tomboyish autist and I'm here to tell you that we're a perfectly valid kind of female. See our "masculinity" isn't actually masculine at all, it's a uniquely female form of it - it's honestly just… another expression of femininity. A male can't ever be a masculine woman or a tomboy, this is a female only experience we're both having.

Sounds like your feelings of trooning fully comes from how other people see you (or at least how you think they see you, you can't know what they're really thinking). While feeling this social pressure is totally understandable, it's a pointless endeavor because it's not really you, it's a false promise of something better if you just conform and cave in to do what they want - but that something will never come, and instead you end up damaged both phyically and mentally. Being trans is primarily about shallow fashion and looks, and to further a harmful ideology, it's never going to fix your brain!

Try to think of your own body as somebody else's, like your wife's. What if all of these demon's voices told you not to troon out yourself - but instead to troon out her body. To fix her brain by having her breasts amputated, by pumping her full of testosterone so she grows a beard and a more aggresive temperament, for her to have surgery on her face to make her face bigger and more square, to have her uterus removed, skin and flesh carved off from her arm to make a neo-phallo to be sown onto her crotch, burying her clitoris forever under that cut off skin. Would you do it to her, would you cut her up like that? Do you think it would fix her brain? Doesn't it sound… kind of ridiculos and pretty horrifying? You're a woman just like her. No matter what you look like or act like you're a woman. Nobody can ever take that from you! Now imagine you take those tiny ugly little demons in your head and drag them out of your brain, then throwing them far away from you. They can go spread their dumb little demon lies back in hell where they came from. And if they make their way back, you kick them out again because they're not welcome! I don't know if any of this helped at all but I'd be so sad to see another autistic woman think she's not good enough because she's not the "ideal feminine woman" when to many of us you truly are perfect just the way you are.

No. 349808

Nona, I could hug you. What you wrote really hit me. I completely agree with you that a woman's masculinity is different. I've never felt 100% comfortable with slapping the "masculine" label on myself, but I'm ESL and it's just an easy way to describe how I am. But when you think about a woman's self-reliance, leadership, assertiveness, aggression, strength, how she provides for her family, etc. These things all manifest very differently for us. Men will chimp out and say these things are masculine traits only males can and/or should do. But men almost always operate based on ego, and those traits feed into that for them. Personally, I'd like to think that I do most of that stuff from a place of wanting to help the people closest to me. The reasoning is very different compared to the men I know. Ultimately, it is just another expression of femininity. I'm very glad you said that, it made me realise that I'm not so far removed from my sex as my paranoia would lead me to believe. People may judge me based on appearances, but my actions show who I truly am. Yes, social pressure is my main issue. Despite being a lesbian I've never really came out. Since I was quite young people have just known, and it makes you very aware of people watching you and judging you. When my wife and I honeymooned in Japan, I got read as male most of the time, and being treated so normally and respectfully was intoxicating. It made me think about transitioning more to be "normal" and "straight". But it's different in the west. More women like me are here, more people know about transgenderism. Not to mention the irreversible damage; when you spoke about those things being done to my wife's body, I felt physically uncomfortable. God, I couldn't do that to her. Crazy how clear things become when you simply transfer this mental illness to another person. I also have three younger sisters, and I would be setting a terrible example if I went through with this. Thank you so much for your reply. It's good to hear from another autistic tomboy. Getting this off my chest was very cathartic, and I'm going to keep in mind what you said. My body is my wife's, if the mere thought of her harming herself could hit me so hard, it would break her heart if I did that for real. Also, I need to show my sisters it's ok to be different. I think the next time the demons start up, I'm going to start journaling and going over all of these points. Thank you so, so much, anon. It means the world to me that you took the time out of your day to help me. ♥

No. 349869

This is one of the best replies I’ve ever read on this website. It is so touching. You are a really thoughtful and intelligent person nonnie. I’ve desisted and thankfully don’t really struggle with dysphoria anymore, and reading this still gave me courage and pride. I wish the best to you and the ayrt, the world needs more tomboyish women and our unique expressions of femininity.

No. 350175

File: 1695807018516.png (49.16 KB, 3695x148, Screenshot 2023-09-27 at 10-21…)

What's with the fakeboi thread making fun of tomboys who haven't even taken testosterone yet by saying they look like the face of [random feminine female celebrity] inserted on a teenage boy? There was a more recent comment by someone saying they hate butch women who don't even identify as trans for supposedly igniting the trans pipeline stereotype, picrel. Then there was a whole off topic debate sparked about a group of leather so-called butch lesbians (in the documentary, several of them were interviewed in the present day and called themselves queer but fuck nuance, butch lesbians are the problem) from the 1980s, in which anons equated them to men in heart and spirit and said they were the fugly prototype trannies of their day.

No. 350180

Gendercrits have a huge not-so-convert tardthot contingent and have for years.

No. 350183

What >>350180 said. The fakeboi thread has been going downhill for a while now. More and more you're seeing the sentiment that any kind of gender non-conformity is the problem. You're not butch, a tomboy or GNC, you're simply at the beginning of the pipeline; or worse it's all your fault and ackshully feminist praxis is wearing make-up and dresses. Want to wear comfortable, functional clothes? Fuck you, future tranny. It's depressing as fuck to be GNC and a lesbian in that thread. Especially when a good chunk of the posters in there claim to be feminists.

No. 350425

completely agree nona & I’m sorry you have to read that as a gnc lesbian :( as feminists, we shouldn’t be shaming gender non conformity at all. being gender non conforming is never the issue, the issue is telling gnc men/women that being gender non conforming makes them women/men or they’re “closeted”. and It’s so frustrating to see people claim that historical gnc women were actually just trans especially considering feminists should want to abolish gender roles instead of reinforce them.

No. 350426

As a butch I refuse to read that thread anymore. It's so clear it's filled with trads and self hating transmascs.

No. 351215

I've been detransitioned for a little over a year now. I was a tumblruser from age 12, adopted a non-binary identity at 14, and it was downhill from there. I managed to get on T at age 22, and had a double mastectomy a few days before turning 25.

I was very mentally ill. Obviously. Every woman in my family had been abused by men, I actually witnessed the sexual assault of my sister at the hands of our cousin, and how it changed her forever. I was terrified this would happen to me too; that I was destined for it and there was nothing I could do to protect myself. I've had vaginismus and vulvodynia since at least age 10. I went on to also develop androphobia, chronic depression, social anxiety/avoidant personality disorder, obsessions and compulsions, self-harming, suicidal behaviour/attempts.. I think having androphobia as a girl who was "boy-crazy" was really the driving factor towards transition, though it went hand-in-hand with social contagion through Tumblr and normal teen girl body hatred. Some part of me truly believed I'd be safe to interact with men if I weren't seen as a woman. I see how naive and ill-informed that is now.

It all fell apart after getting the surgery. I was botched and lied to. I expressed being afraid of developing dog-ears and was told by my surgeon I would be able to "exercise them off". After the first post-op checkup I was told by a different surgeon that just isn't true. I developed this thick, painful square in my left breast, which they believed to be a hematoma and went to surgically correct under local anaesthetic later that same day. It wasn't a hematoma, it was a cap of internal scar tissue roughly 4x4cm. Nonas, I can't express what it was like to have this being cut and seared out of me under just local anaesthetic.. I had to wear my post-op vest for almost 3 months total. Day and night. Any issue I've had since, they've swept under the rug. "Of course you're in pain. What did you expect?" I was told it would take 6-8 weeks to recover. I didn't understand. I was young, naive, stupid. I have chronic back issues now because my chest is so damaged that my shoulders and neck must compensate for what my pectoral muscles can no longer carry. X-rays of my neck show I'm losing curvature in my upper spine. Every woman I've spoken to about the loss of my breasts doesn't understand. My best friend actually said, "In a way it would be better if you had your uterus removed instead, at least others wouldn't see that." I'm mourning my health, I'm mourning what I've taken from my future kids, questioning if I even have the moral right to have any after what I did to my body and how the effects of HRT might negatively impact the baby. The only comfort I CAN find is that I was cautious enough to reject having a combo hysterectomy/oophorectomy at the same time as the mastectomy.. They asked me several times. Apparently that is the norm here. I'm not kidding. They really encourage young girls in my country to yeet all female reproductive organs at once. In hindsight it's completely horrific.

Since then I've been lurking radfem and gendercrit spaces. I've been listening to and reading works from people like Kathleen Stock and Helen Joyce. It's a source of support to hear others state outright how messed up this all is and the irrevocable harm that's being done. But the worst part of my detransition is not the physical, it's how my faith in myself and the world has been obliterated. I don't trust anyone or anything anymore. Getting psychological help is a mindfuck because of this, I'm scared of processed foods/the food industry, taking a goddamn paracetamol makes me nervous now. I'm scared to commit to school, a job, to relationships; to make any decision that feels at all important. My life's been ruined. My belief in myself has been burned to the ground. I'm in the process of rebuilding, but some days it's impossible to see any stable structure ever being constructed out of the ashes. Sorry for the long post, and if it's sorta all over the place.. I just don't feel like I can actually talk about what happened anywhere else without also having to navigate a political minefield, but it plays on a loop in my head all day and night.

No. 351275

Fucking hell nona, well done for clawing your way out of the cult.
You've been entrenched in the ideology since the age of 12, of course you're going to doubt all the decisions you make now that you're free from them. It's totally normal and unfortunately it'll take a while for you to be able to trust yourself, but you'll get there, even if it takes years. I'm so sorry you went through all this suffering because the people who were supposed to protect you were the ones who perpetrated the abuse.

No. 351361

Thank you for your support and words of encouragement, it means a lot to me. I hope you're right.. At times I really do think this pain will pave the way for a stronger, more self-assured version of me. I feel more connected to myself. I can say things like, "Sure, I still really don't like my birthname, but it's a connection to my roots: my parents, my culture." That's a very powerful feeling when you come from a place of self-hatred so strong you tried to obliterate everything that made you who you are.

I've had to reach out to my gender clinic for bureaucratic reasons (the legal reversal of name/gender), and all they've done is try to sell me more procedures and surgeries. "Do you want to reconstruct your chest? Are you sure? You'll let us know if you change your mind? And you want laser hair removal right? We can do that here. I'll look into insurance policy for you but we offer the procedure right here at the hospital." Lol, as if I'd ever let them touch any part of my body again. I know better now; it's just about financial profit. I went to an independent laser clinic for my beard growth. At least they're straight-up about what they are.

No. 355635

File: 1698509726781.png (33.49 KB, 593x328, detransition.png)

i thought i would post this here for you nonnies.

No. 355643

I'm sorry to hear of all you've gone through nona and hope you find peace. I think it makes sense for you to distrust professional 'mental health help' and you might want to check /ot/ for a thread there they had shitting on the profession for myriad reasons. The only thing that seems to have any evidence of helping is CBT and you can go through CBT self help books by yourself. Perhaps it is callous to suggest currently but perhaps one day in the future you can get the mastectomy cosmetically reversed.

No. 355790

This book was amazing. I loved the parts about how right wing collusion is going to harm us in the long run. I recommend anyone (detrans or otherwise) buy it, but it should be on TOR's Z-Library for free for those without funds now.

No. 356350

Hope it’s ok for me to post here despite never having transitioned. I think there is some truth to the fujo to trans pipeline. Of course that’s not the only thing that gave me gender dysphoria, I was always a tomboy. As a kid I got read as male some of the time because I wore boy’s clothes and I would get hit on by my bicurious friends despite being hetero. But I would read a lot of bl and slash fanfiction and self-insert into the plot, which I think reinforced my gender dysphoria. There was a time in my life where I would always imagine myself as a moid while getting off. I think some of it stems from wanting to feel “equal” in a relationship. Especially because some of the kinks I enjoyed back then had cringe D/s dynamic and being into those things as a female felt as if I was just predestined to be subservient, whereas imaging myself as a moid I felt like I had more agency and “choice” in what I enjoyed. Looking back I don't think it was healthy, but at that time it gave me a space to explore my sexuality in a way that felt safe. Thankfully I was introspective enough to think about these feelings critically and deal with my internalized misogyny and I’m not really into that stuff anymore, but it was a long process. I also had big time auto-androphilia/gender envy. I was sexually attracted to moids and somehow this translated to wanting to have all the physical traits I found desirable in them. I still feel gender dysphoria from time to time, but it’s exceedingly rare these days. One of my biggest reasons for not transing was 1. My attraction to penis. These days kids are trying to convince themselves genitals are unrelated to sexual attraction, but I knew having a vagina meant I’d just be a weird roided up woman and I’d never personally be attracted to a ftm, so why would I expect others to be into me? 2. Even if I somehow managed to pass as a moid I like straight guys and they’re usually not into moids lol.

If had been born a few years later I’m pretty sure I would have transitioned, and I sometimes read the ftm subreddits out of some fucked up schadenfreude. A lot of these girls have the same feelings that I did, basically straight with extra steps, except they’re a million times more entitled these days. They feel bad being in a hetero relationship as a woman and on one hand it’s sad and I really relate to them, but I think their perspective on relationships is very narrow. Suddenly you discover you can be a heterosexual tomboy in a relationship with a straight moid without all the old fashioned gender dynamics and it feels great. Meanwhile these girls are pining for their ideal bl romance when in reality gay men are the biggest sluts on the planet. Not saying being a girl is easy, but seems like being a girl trying to larp as a guy just sets you up for so much more hardship.

No. 363912

It's only getting worse and worse.

No. 367792

Has anyone been dealing with health issues since detransitioning? I'm worried my ovaries might be failing after five years on testosterone, one year off, and a hysterectomy while I was on it. My hair has thinned a lot and my skin has aged more quickly since I went off it, and I've been really depressed too. I reluctantly made an appointment with planned parenthood to hopefully get my hormone levels checked and maybe get a prescription for estrogen if my body isn't making enough anymore. I'm paranoid about going through menopause way too early.

No. 367907

I don't have personal experience and I don't mean to alarm you, but someone posting on the detrans subreddit had this happen to her. She had undergone a hysterectomy but kept one or both of her ovaries. After detransitioning her ovaries started "failing" and she went into premature menopause, I think she was in her early 30s. According to her, the uterus and ovaries signal back and forth to each other in a feedback loop, so without one organ the other also stopped working properly. The implications if true are terrifying considering how many TIF undergo hysterectomies and the increasing rate of detransitioners. I think making an appointment and getting a prescription sooner rather than later is the best thing you can do anon. There are communities out there for women who've undergone hysterectomies whether due to transgender reasons or because it was medically nescessary, I hope you can find some help there and that things get better.

No. 367944

Seconding other anon, go get it checked as soon as possible. Unfortunately the trans community has made it so everyone hates detrans people and it's still a medically unknown area. If they don't listen, find another doctor because you deserve help and proper care.

No. 367953

Since you've had a hysterectomy, I agree with the other anons to get it checked because it is possible you can basically run into early menopause. I was advised to actually not try and balance back my hormones by taking estrogen unless I had a hysterectomy, in which case it is recommended.
Though I kept my uterus and got my hormone levels checked last month (T back to levels apparently low for a female), 2+ years after quitting T I still have health problems along the lines of hair loss and uneven greying (unusually so for my age & genetics), developed endo, no diagnosis for PCOS but most of the symptoms, migraines, pain during penetrative sex, the list goes on when it comes to health issues that affect me daily. Because like anon above said, it's such uncharted territory for reasons we all know, it's extremely crucial to speak to medical professionals quickly if you can.

No. 369057

Same anon. This thread helped me. So did my therapist helping me go out more. When the gender clinic appointment date got closer I became so anxious and upset I couldn't go through with it so cancelled. It's a type of sadness I've never felt before. Something about not being accepted for what I am yet being accepted for what I'm not (or what I have to change myself to appear as, like the original me is a problem with a fix). I have noticed this about masculine lesbians and bisexuals like Chella Man - she went from a nobody in society as a tall, average-looking woman with short hair, to a celebrity given acting roles after transitioning and passing as a man. The difference from me and other TIFs like her on social media is I highly suspect Chella is a covert narcissist who relishes in martyrdom, in being 1000 special oppressed labels that supposedly give her higher consciousness than the "cis". I wish I could look male but if you go deeper than the surface (they can't because whatever is underneath is so wounded it frightens them), these social media famous women inject testosterone because they don't know who they are without: aesthetic photos, a marketable persona, posing in trendy clothes, showing off their surgery to present a culturally progressive image of what they want you to see them as (better than you). Everything is done with the knowledge someone will be looking at it and up to them. Every single photo on their Instagrams and every video on their YouTubes is a selfie and about showing themselves off. It's like voyeurism, admiring the work of testosterone on their bodies because nobody cares about women as people. Ultimately I guess I just don't have the mental energy and self-obsession required to be happy with knowing my life would revolve around waiting to pass, waiting until I got certain procedures done in years to pass. Most of these TIFs have rich parents or live where transition is free. When I get the procedures, then what? Make voice comparisons every month? No. Open an Instagram and spam myself shirtless? No. Make vlogs about being a tranny living a boring life? No. Does looking like a guy when I go round the corner to the grocery shop really matter? No. Will I turn into a social butterfly when I'm called sir with roid rage and a rotting vagina in my pants? No. Will I want to fuck women with a realistic plastic penis glued on top of a body part that makes me want to kill myself? No.

They offered a new appointment one month later even after I said I wasn't in the right place to transition soon, which I declined and surprisingly got refunded for (a week later after asking). Since then I stopped wearing such a tight binder but releasing that pressure has revealed a serious pain in my trapezius muscles and surrounding areas. Taking all those steps to separate from my body has also brought on a long-lasting asexuality, as in I lost all physical feelings of sexual attraction and anything that could potentially cause it (hot women, women kissing) triggers me. I can't stand to see my deformed saggy chest through clothes, and my private parts cause even stronger revulsion than in the past, although this is easy to connect to a negative experience with a male doctor a couple years ago (the only doctor available during the pandemic). It's like a clump of dead nerves. I might be traumatised, and I might be ugly now I stopped caring about how I look (and because I have to put my energy toward things that actually matter as an adult like finances and cleaning the dishes after myself and going for walks and eating well and keeping the flat clean and socialising and studying), and I might get immediately called she now I don't try so hard to mask anything visibly female, but maybe it's a break I deserve. I still experience the urge to transition and skinwalk certain men, and I probably always will, but all of it is just unhealthy, shallow looks obsession influenced by the internet which I simply can't imagine potentially dying from poison for. That's not because I'm smarter than anyone who medically transitioned and detransed. I think it's because I am such a passive, inhibited person who lives in my head and has never made decisions for my own real life due to an overly controlling mother - in a way this even contributed to me wanting to be a man, because I associated it with independence. Now I have my own place to live, I get that life doesn't come down to how people think I look.

No. 369071

File: 1703622006826.png (51.16 KB, 720x455, IMG_20231226_142023.png)

Shit like this that romanticizes transitioning is so infuriating to me.

No. 369145

The "shaping yourself in ways that make you fall in love with yourself" is such an easy hook for girls who hate themselves for one reason or another. So much stuff in trans communities is similar to ED communities. It's not a coincidence how there's 100x more people becoming trans in the last decade compared to the 80s-00s.

No. 369190

There's also a very clear overlap. They prey on vulnerable teens, and those teens don't understand they're being led on because everyone just repeats how brave and beautiful they are for "becoming their true self". I wish they stopped yass queening this stupid cult shit. But the impressionable rebellious youth really don't give a shit, they will always be contrarians despite the real danger of never ending cosmetic procedures resulting in life long consequences and possibly suicide. No, they will never listen because they think it will never happen to them, that they will be happy as long as there is an insane community of self hating people approving of their choices. Then they use older trans men to validate their larp even though they probably were escaping perceived womanhood and hyper feminity as much as they are. The only way out is actually just living as yourself and not caring about society or gender roles. I stopped caring a long time ago ever since I understood I don't have to change myself to fit in, I just do, wear, exist in my most comfortable self. Transness is a trap and wanting to escape misogyny with even more self hate just made it worse.

On the topic of womb removal surgery though, why is it that in order to stop having periods TIFs get their organ taken out instead of just opting for the birth control implant? Is it the need to inject testosterone? Why do they tell TIFs that the uterus is completely unnecessary unless you want kids? That's not how it works.

No. 369192

>why is it that in order to stop having periods TIFs get their organ taken out
I'm assuming this is because the capability of becoming pregnant in and of itself is traumatic to a lot of women, trans or not. Getting an elective hysto is obviously not a good idea, but to me it's not a huge mystery why someone would want that, especially if they are led to believe its totally harmless as long as you use testosterone. The blackpillers on lolcow are even constantly sperging about how awful having straight sex as a woman is, in a way very reminiscent of genderdysphoria. It's something I've come to terms with personally, but I understand their sentiment.

No. 369239

What are things you wished people told you when you were in your trans phase?

I think about this question often and I honestly don't know if anything anyone told me would have gotten through to me. But looking back, most of it was ineffective because they obviously missed the motivation on why I wanted to transition

No. 369264

File: 1703703711735.jpg (52.05 KB, 653x225, testosterone lawsuits.jpg)

The thing that could have really changed my mind, that eventually did change my mind when I experienced alarming side effects, was looking up the risks of testosterone treatment prescribed for "cis" men and women. All of the current guidance indicates it should only be prescribed for people who are deficient in testosterone to restore their natural levels, otherwise it can have serious cardiovascular risks. I had ongoing issues with rapid, irregular heartbeats and chest pain for several months before I quit testosterone for good. If my calculations are correct, I was taking 23.8x the recommended testosterone dose for women (50mg weekly compared to the recommended 300mcg daily), which is not even approved by the FDA in the first place. It's still very understudied in women, trans-identifying or not, but the risks for men are seriously concerning. Picrel is what I found when I looked up risks of testosterone therapy. I would have factored this into my decision making process if I knew. Clinicians and medical associations really downplay the risks of testosterone when it's used for "gender affirming" treatment.

Another thing I wish someone had told me is that I would never pass 100% no matter what, simply because of the shape of my skeleton. I was kind of delusional about this due to my own body dysmorphia, pro-trans messaging about the benefits of hrt, and the doctors telling me that most trans men eventually pass. I thought body fat redistribution and working out would be enough to make me pass.
I'm a huge dumbass and I basically (with help) talked myself into thinking this was the best solution for me until years later when it blew up in my face.

No. 369268

>why is it that in order to stop having periods TIFs get their organ taken out instead of just opting for the birth control implant? Is it the need to inject testosterone?
Long term testosterone (several years) use can fuck up the uterus and cause atrophy, so even if I don't approve of elective hysterectomies it's not always done willy-nilly. I've read that estrogen cream in the vagina can prevent vaginal atrophy, but I've never heard of an IUD being used on top of testosterone (maybe for TIFs attracted to men, but I don't see why lesbian TIFs would). I'm honestly equally skeptical of most women taking birth control unless they have endometriosis or PCOS. So much trans "medicine" is a repeat of all of the other pharma bandaid solutions to life's problems and how female bodies are treated as medical mysteries.

No. 369329

I always hated having periods, but no one ever told me that I could get the implant or an IUD or the DEPO shot and that they would disappear. No, they always pushed transition onto me because surely a woman hating her period means you're trans, when most likely all women hate periods (depends on how shitty they are I guess). At the time I thought I was a lesbian and the trans ideology really got to me, I really think they push it way too hard on same sex attracted women. At the time I knew zero information about contraceptives besides condoms and the pill because I thought I had no need for them. Sad and pathetic, but after some time, I found out I was bisexual and it was only after I started dating a man that I really put in the work into learning about birth control methods and it was a surprise to me how plenty of them don't give you periods at all, or very light spotting. I know periods are a very big source of dysphoria for people. I also think they shouldn't be prescribed willy-nilly, and I know they also have side effects, but for me, I will always prefer it to testosterone. I'm glad learning more about it and radical feminism stopped me, even though I was definitely ready to go and get it prescribed.

No. 369335

I think most trans youth do not even consider not being trans as an option. It's too inviting to be "punk" and do what people tell you to be wary of at that age, plus there's a huge community seeking and giving out validation. Even normies are okay with it now. Being trans is being seen as a hero and a victim at the same time, it becomes something larger than life. You are promised that you will become your best self, your true self, your body is just putty that you can transform into an OC with a tragic backstory. People don't listen to terfs and they don't listen to concerned parents, and you can't even criticize or be wary of the gender movement because for them, there's no perceived danger, and any doubts you might have means you're the enemy. We should all be accepting they say. Trans people are obviously sensitive and fragile, that's not necessarily bad, but it makes them vulnerable.

What made me change my mind about it all is learning that it is ok to be a tomboy, or tomboyish. I think I'm not a tomboy in the traditional sense because I feel more comfortable with long hippy skirts than pants, but I don't perform feminity at all otherwise. In a society where I'm forced to be feminine or you're a pariah, I'd say yes, I'm kind of a failure. But I rather be considered a failure because I refuse to wear makeup, I refuse to have long hair, and I refuse to ever learn to use high heels, that doesn't make me a man, or ugly, even if men and women in my society insist that you are ugly if you don't conform.

No. 369346

I think I would have needed to see an in-group person detransition/desist first and tell me my doubts were legitimate. I had ideological and personal concerns years before I finally called it quits, but every time I confided in my friends about it, they'd give me non-answers and platitudes or openly shame and dismiss me. No one inside the echo chamber wanted to talk about the issue in any real depth, but I wouldn't have listened to anyone outside the echo chamber because they were inherently untrustworthy. I reacted very negatively to any hint of disagreement from "outsiders," even if they were identical to my own private thoughts or if I had no rebuttal to give. It's hard to recognize myself from that time. I don't think describing the medicalization side effects would have really changed my mind, because that was always besides the point for me. It would have taken one of my TIF friends conceding I had a point, re-identifying as a woman, and then being accepted by her friends afterwards for me to feel good about doing the same. But that's asking a cult not to be what it is, so I guess it's not very actionable. The only other thing I think could have worked is if I'd been around a bunch of normie lesbians, I think a huge part of the problem was my girlfriends kept transitioning and convincing me I should too and actually neither of us were lesbians at all, which fucked with my sense of self a lot.

No. 370203

How do you stop the obsessive intrusive thoughts about wanting to transition? I've dealt with them for 15 years and they aren't going away. Do you just ignore them?

No. 370204

File: 1704052284194.jpg (33.93 KB, 333x500, 51qr-bR2smL.jpg)

Start with this. They're just thoughts like any other. You can make it through this. And make some detrans or at least gender critical friends, surround yourself with people you can trust and confide in.

No. 370376

Do you nonnies talk about your detransition when getting to know new people? Or when dating, do you bring up your past with troonism? Before detransitioning, I was "stealth" and never told anyone about being "trans" and it always felt like I was lying to people. Now after my detransition, people see me just as a normal woman that I am and it feels nice. But I also feel like I'm lying or being secretive when I don't talk about my past, but I really just want to forget about being trans for years and I feel ashamed for even believing the shitty gender cult bs.
Is it bad if I don't tell new friends about it? Or a new partner? I mean I probably should tell about my past if I'm dating someone, but I'm scared that he would think that I'm insane or embarrassing or something.

No. 370406

I don't see why you would have to? Unless you're getting questions about lingering T side effects or something, and even then, not really anyone's business. Tell a partner if you get serious but other than that I don't think you need to.

No. 370685

I feel so lost about this sometimes. I often look back at things I did and said like it was someone else entirely. I dated another TIF for 6 months and we were thinking about moving in together. Now I think about it and realize we didn't even know each other's real names. It's just surreal and makes me doubt myself. If I was so easily brainwashed, then how can I ever be confident in my own thoughts again? I'm sure I'm right now, but I was sure I was right then. It's hard to talk about to anyone, my gendie friends obviously treated me like I was the devil for stopping (and I wasn't even a proper TIF, just a he/they) and I don't think normies would know what to say other than just nodding uncomfortably. It's lonely. Sometimes I wish I'd stayed deluded. I can't even truly put my finger on what made me realize how crazy it all was. "People are who they say they are" was so easy to accept and sometimes I miss the certainty but I know I can't go back even if I wish I could. It's like I've lost a core belief of mine. It makes me realize how central the gendie stuff was in my life and relationships. Without it, suddenly people I used to love so much felt so far away, and I couldn't make sense of who I was. I wonder if this is how people who lose their religion feel.

No. 370728

>I often look back at things I did and said like it was someone else entirely
I can understand this feeling so well, anon. Past-me feels like a completely different person, I can't relate to her at all even if I try to understand what she was thinking, it just isn't me anymore. I think it portrays how much you have grown ad outgrown some things, not that you're unreliable or weak or anything like that. I think you would benefit from finding friends that suit the current-you, I know that's easier said than done. I'm struggling with it too.
>I wonder if this is how people who lose their religion feel.
It does feel similar, religion is half community the same way the gender ideologies are, and you feel disoriented after 'escaping' it. I wish you best of luck.

No. 370771

Your past and your life are your business. Confessional-level oversharing isn't something you're obliged to do. It's expected in terminally online spaces, but not by anyone normal.

No. 370856

Update: Planned parenthood cancelled my appointment, saying they only check hormone levels for patients interested in gender-affirming care. I don't know wtf to do at this point since I don't have health insurance. I'm feeling particularly hopeless right now.

No. 370870

Say you're interested in gender affirming care and get the tests done. If they try to force a prescription on you say you're still considering the method of administration and will get back to them. And also, call more than one planned parenthood.

No. 370900

Wow, that’s bullshit. They’ll let you fuck up your body with cross sex hormones but then if you want to undo the damage they’ve caused, “tough luck, you’re on your own loser”? Sounds like PP is now cult headquarters. I second the suggestion of telling PP you want to check your hormones “as part of your gender journey” (back to healthy normal female). Or find a different healthcare provider. I recently had a gyno appointment at my uni’s healthcare center and they had at least 5 pro LGBTQ+ (and we all know that really just means pro-troon) posters in the room where they took my vitals. One of the decorations was a poster that said something like “we believe you are who you say you are”. I wonder, if I’d said I was a person who thinks transgenderism is a self-harming cult, would they have believed me, or denied me care and told me to GTFO? I might as well have been in a Catholic hospital with walls covered in crosses and pictures of Jesus.

My troon relative got a job at PP and when he told me that, internally I felt the same as though he’d told me he signed a billion year contract with the Sea Org in the Church of Scientology. Fuck this cult man

No. 370910

Unfortunately you might have to speak their language if you need medical help on going back. Frame it as "gender affirming" in a different way, ex. "my gender identity was fluid and I feel more like [insert stupid label here] now" etc. It sucks but it's similar to how I've lied to religious family members or say I use certain pronouns around gendies.

No. 371017

It did cross my mind in the moment to argue that this would be gender affirming care for me, but I didn't think it would make a difference because I had already explained my situation. The conversation was basically like "Are you interested in going back on T? No? Well, we only do this for patients interested in gender-affirming care." It's so frustrating because the person who scheduled my appointment assured me it was something they could do.

I'm considering contacting a different PP, or another provider altogether. I might try framing it as my "gender journey" from the start this time to get them on board.

No. 371321

I'm so sorry to hear that anon. No one else said it yet, so apologies if this sounds really dumb-
I saw you said penetration hurt. It might be good for you to get a vibrator so you can get off without penetration, assuming you haven't had SRS. I like my vibrator so I hope this isn't an off-base suggestion.

No. 371681

File: 1704597222749.png (381.83 KB, 622x1020, IMG_20240106_210716.png)

Why is it so hard to reason with trans cult members? I eventually gave up on transitioning but some of them are very adamant.

No. 372673

It's a cult, what do you expect? They get asspats for being victims and showered with money to hide the shame they feel for being women, or to get bolt-ons to fuel their fetish. Their ideology is so full of holes it's a net. You can't reason with retards.
Think about why you gave up on transitioning. When did reality overtake the brainwashing? How bad did things get in your friend group when you stopped pretending to be anything other than the gender you were born as? What issues were you running from that made you turn to transition as the one and true answer? How much do you think it would ruin the lives of the men and women currently in the trans cult if they accepted reality like you did? Nobody chooses to remove healthy body parts for 'optimization' unless they loathe themselves. The girl in your picrel is getting showered with attention and money, how likely do you think she is to admit that that anon was right and she's making a retarded decision that she'll regret the second she pulls her head out of the sand?

No. 373560

Update: I got a menopause test with LabCorp and I don't think I'm in menopause. My estradiol, progesterone, FSH, and LH levels are normal and non-menopausal, although they don't seem to correspond to any point in my cycle (I don't know if I even have a hormone cycle anymore after hysto). I'm relieved I don't have to worry about getting a prescription to fix my hormone levels just yet. No thanks to Planned Parenthood of course. I think my symptoms are probably a result of ongoing stress.

No. 373564

That's great news! If anything does happen in the future I would look into an endocrinologist if possible.

No. 373577

It’s pathetic and disgusting but ultimately not my problem. I can’t stop every idiot in the world from making terrible life decisions. If I did I wouldn’t have time to take a shit.

No. 374357

Does any suggest any steps to take when not feeling like a ‘real woman’ because I’m:


>not good at making friends with women

No. 374369

At risk of sounding obvious, just try to remember there's literally nothing you need to do to "prove" you're a woman. There's no threshold or metric you need to meet in order to be a "real woman" except for being born female and then growing to adulthood. Do you think lesbians or childless women aren't "real women"? Of course not, so then why would you think it about yourself? Don't play by the rulebook that says it's possible to fail at being a woman because you don't follow arbitrary social rules.

No. 374370

Make friends with more lesbians. It's easy to feel like you're not a woman when most women around you base their ideas of womanhood around scrotes and their attraction to them. Finding other women to relate to is the first step, and I know you said you're not good at making friends, but just keep trying. You'll get better. Above anon is right too, at the end of the day you're an adult human female just like any other woman and that's the only prerequisite to being a woman.

No. 374383

Were you born with a vagina? If so congrats, you are a real woman. Women are allowed to date women, drive trucks, wear boxer shorts, play hockey, never shave our legs, become construction workers, etc. and we are still women.

No. 374386

Look at other women arounr you. There's plenty of women who're childless, if you're in the right circles/places you'll find there's a decent amount of lesbians and it may feel like all women but you easily befriend other women, but those who don't aren't visible to you because they're home alone.

No. 374419

You are a woman no matter how alienated you feel from certain sillly constructs. Try your best to make sane female friends anon, trust me I know easier said than done. I spent a lot of my youth being afraid of women due to tism and bullying, but just by forming one meaningful female friendship in adulthood I was healed on so many levels.

No. 374586

No. 374608

This is an update from KC Miller. If you recall, she is the young woman, she was 21 at the time, who got ridiculed for posting the video about talking about the harm testosterone has done to her and upset about losing her hair. I thought I'd post this for you nonnies to see.

No. 375055

i’m so worried i’m never going to be able to do penetrative sex. tmi sorry but on a good day i can get ~1.5 fingers in, even extreme arousal leaves me only mildly wet, and stretching doesn’t seem effective. does anyone have experience with estrogen cream? i’ve been of test & blockers for maybe a year and a half, maybe a little more, and i’ve still got super irregular periods and a bone dry pussy.

No. 375058

I’m 100% against transitioning, but every ftm I’ve ever seen is more attractive than a biological male kek. Women are just naturally much better looking than men.

No. 375611

estrogen cream will do wonders, taking it regularly has made penetration comfortable for me. as a heads up, if you have endo then the HRT can trigger endo symptoms, mine makes my ovary angry at me

No. 375615

I know it's not about looks, but she looks so cute and feminine here to me

No. 375713

File: 1706263654161.jpg (93.52 KB, 1666x1113, Costochondritis.jpg)

How do you get rid of lasting rib pain caused by binding every day? I only just made the decision for my health to stop wearing it after buying an oversized one from Underworks that's supposed to be safer and it actually wrecking my ribs significantly more. I'd like to see an improvement to encourage keeping it off. I have picrel now from what I can tell (pressing down on the sternum is agony), stinging aches and a bruised feeling like if you slept on a spring mattress that digs in, breathing deeply aches at the sides, just any movement aches really. I don't know if it's just in my head but my ribs feel pushed back like when I'm outside and tired from walking with heavy groceries up the hill on my way back home so I breathe deeper, it's like I'm battling against my ribs without the binder on. I only wore it for a year…

No. 375714

Have you tried yoga? I found incorporating daily yoga into my routine really helpful when I stopped. You can start with something like Yoga with Adriene on youtube and go from there.

No. 375807

thank you so much anon, i’m so relieved and happy to hear that. and thank you for the warning!

No. 381897

File: 1709023300228.jpg (668.69 KB, 1271x840, aaaaaaa.jpg)

No. 381944

Breathing exercises to reinforce proper accessory muscle function would be a good start. If the pain has been long-term and you haven't had a chest x-ray, it would be worthwhile to rule out flail chest.

No. 381963

File: 1709066608238.jpg (125.45 KB, 1376x1500, 6121sFpv7nL._SL1500_.jpg)

Late but I had it really severely, picrel helped me the most, just doing this exercise every day as well as other physio exercises, it helped immensely. Do you still have large breasts though? For me it was only entirely healed after I got my reduction as there was nothing to do about the large weight constantly pressing down on the area preventing it from healing but using the backpod alongside other stretches to open up your ribcage are your best bet by far, it was the only thing that helped for me.

No. 382682

File: 1709406495538.png (202.4 KB, 1492x760, b81ff010-b917-4bfc-806b-0383ab…)

I just read this article and was curious about other detransitioners' experiences with healthcare professionals when first transitioning. I had the same healthcare provider as the writer, and it's shocking that they've almost entirely dropped the guardrails and barriers I experienced only 5 years earlier (started 2017, she started 2022). I'll detail some of my experiences below.

Hormones: I had to bring a letter from my counselor to the gender clinic, confirming I had persistent gender dysphoria and wanted to pursue hrt. I had my bloodwork done, had a 1 hour session with a psychiatrist, and signed off on a list of side effects and risks with an endocrinologist. I brought up my past eating disorder and diagnosis of major depression, but the psychiatrist told me those were related to my dysphoria. I got my first T shot in the clinic that day. The writer only had a 13-minute video appointment. At least she also had to do bloodwork before getting a prescription.

Top surgery: I had to be on hrt for at least 6 months I think. I had consultations with the psychiatrist, another gender specialist at the clinic, and the surgeon. They asked why I wanted it, what my goals were, my understanding of the risks, and about my plans to fully socially and legally transition. The writer says she was only asked about her aesthetic and nipple sensitivity goals. During her mental health check in, she told the therapist she wanted surgery because of the trauma of sexual harassment, and mentioned a past eating disorder and her mother's psychosis, all of which was brushed aside.

Bottom surgery: I was able to get a hysterectomy only after several years of T had left me with extreme persistent uterine pain. When I called the surgery scheduling center, they told me "you know you can just get a hysterectomy at the same time as your phalloplasty". I had never told them I wanted that. I told them I didn't want phallo. The writer was easily able to get a referral for both procedures with just a short phone call. I actually had to see a gynecologist about my uterus pain first. What's amazing to me is that they seemed ok with the writer getting a mastectomy, hysterectomy, and phalloplasty all at the same time because it would supposedly be convenient for her, and only a few months after getting her prescription for T.

In conclusion, I can't believe I thought the screening process was comprehensive enough when I went through it. I had a few doubts at points, but I trusted the medical professionals to genuinely recommend what they thought was best for me, and there did seem to be gatekeeping at the important steps. Now I wonder if they would've given me anything I asked for no matter what I said. Apparently that's what they're doing now.

No. 382696

I never got very far because I got cold feet once they prescribed T. I'd had a treatment team for my ED and a psychiatrist who referred me to a gender clinic because she was convinced my ED was because of gender dysphoria. But I looked up side effects and results and just got too skeeved out, never took it. But my ex girlfriend, she got through VERY fast even though we were barely 18. Like between the time she came out, she was able to get on T and approved for top surgery within 6 months. She also got cleared for a hysterectomy + phallo about a year after and due to other issues, we broke up. Later, she told me she wasn't going to get phallo and was actually just going to get metoidio. I hadn't peaked yet, but I remember wondering vaguely if it was normal that she'd been pushed into phallo and she was the one who had to argue it wasn't necessary. Even though I never took T, I still wanted (and sometimes still want, honestly) top surgery, and when I confided in a therapist years later about this, she responded with "well you know they've loosened gatekeeping requirements so that you can get top surgery without having to be on HRT, if you want I can refer you and we can get the process rolling and covered by insurance." It really spooked me. I have no doubt they would've fast tracked me. Quit therapy soon after.

No. 382701

>when I confided in a therapist years later about this, she responded with "well you know they've loosened gatekeeping requirements so that you can get top surgery without having to be on HRT, if you want I can refer you and we can get the process rolling and covered by insurance." It really spooked me.
This is why I hate the argument that detransitioners/desisters should've seen a therapist instead of becoming trans. Most therapists support this stuff. When I started going back to trauma therapy I sought out LGB-supportive therapists because some of my sexual trauma is rooted in facing homophobia/religious fundamentalism/conversion-esque shit, and all of them supported "queer" and gender stuff too.

No. 382709

Yes, it really annoys me when people say stuff like "well no one forced you to be trans!" because when your therapist, your psychiatrist, your doctors, your friends, major corporations and news outlets, are all pushing you to believe in this dogma with zero pushback, frankly why wouldn't you believe them? Especially when all of your concerns are met with handwaving and dismissal? Professionals are on the affirm affirm affirm train and will insist you NEED this, but somehow the onus is on random, vulnerable, mentally ill young women to see through it.

No. 383437

Sometimes I wish I could have stayed under the TRA delusion longer. I know it's the best spiritually, physically, and longterm for me to be cognizant of my reality as a woman, but when I'm hit hard with dysphoria like I am now, I can't help but feel this deep yearning within me, even if I could never truly be a man, for an alternate universe where I could be happy playing make believe. I wouldn't want this version of me to undergo hormones and surgery, but not having to think about misogyny because I'm in fantasyland thinking I'm a he/it cloudperson or whatever, exempt from misogyny, sounds kind of nice. I miss when I could pretend the issues I faced were because of transphobia and not because I'm a woman. I miss when I could pretend I was truly equal to men, and that they might genuinely accept me the way they do other men if only I passed a little better. That they wouldn't ostracize or sexualize me when I was in their hobby groups. I miss thinking that other women could someday respect me because I'm a ~real boy~ and not a failed autistic woman. I wish I could believe that the ease of a male life could someday be mine, if only through a bit of hard work and crossplay and voice training, even if the reality is far from it. Stepping out of my trans identity didn't make me feel like I was free. It just made me close my fingers around the bars of the cage of womanhood. I can never escape the threat of rape or abuse by men, this is an undeniable fact, but I didn't know that back then, and that was as close a taste of freedom as I have ever gotten. The illusions, the smoke and mirrors, kept me comfortable. Even now I'm butch and put considerable effort into looking as masculine as possible, I even sometimes get gendered as a man, but the essence of my previous trans ideology isn't there so it feels so hollow. It's every bit as much a coping mechanism now as it was back then, but now I KNOW that it's only for my safety, and that it isn't who I'd be if only this world was safe for women. I do believe I'm genuinely masculine to an extent, but binding and allowing myself to be called a man - I know that that is not me. It just hurts that there is no escape for women, not unless XY finally goes extinct or women across the globe gain class consciousness and somehow put an end to the patriarchy. Either way, I'll never see that happen in my lifetime, and I only wish I could have kept the wool over my eyes for a little longer. Sorry for the huge doomer vent, I know it's dramatic.

No. 386197

When I "detransed" (just socially and by not wearing a binder) I got encouraged to grow my hair out because "it looks much better long", embrace "my femininity" to fit in by everyone around me. Honestly, it's only just reaching shoulder length but I've been through this before. My confidence is gone because of the feeling I'll either:
a) be stuck as a masculine woman that gets called sir and ma'am in the same sentence by multiple strangers who don't know what the fuck to do with me, is scared of speaking in case it outs me and causes a problem, gets told by my own mother not to go in the women's bathroom because I'll scare everyone, be treated as a predatory dyke or man to cross the street from by most women, friends/family secretly thinking I looked better when I "don't look trans", or
b) blend in, be accepted if I present in the way women seem to subconsciously expect other women to.

When I quit wearing the binder and covered my chest with a bag instead, let my hair grow a tiny amount out of my cap and no longer bothered with using clothes in a way that significantly helped me pass, I started getting negative comments here and there mostly from teenage boys (a group of them on the bus called me an it). Lately I just stopped existing as a social being, gave up my interest in clothes, don't pay attention to my body anymore, fill my time with studying and browsing to stay in my head, never go outside if it's optional and even then I struggle the whole time. Kind of passing made me so much more confident I actually travelled alone for the first time in my life, and now I can't even go get groceries because I feel like too much of a freakshow who clearly can't commit to the bit of being a woman. I know it's not necessary in order to be a woman and I am one just by existing but I do want to be attractive to women without all these problems but - feminine, masculine, or not giving a fuck - there are problems every way I turn!

No. 386210

Idk man, when I had gender dysphoria growing up due to being a homo I never believed hormonal transition was safe, let alone have surgery. Even when I saw a fat girl being put on T during my stay in the looney bin I thought that was fucked up. Also never for a second believed you could actually become the opposite sex which is why ultimately I never tried. But idk maybe that was also my hypochondriac brain speaking.

No. 386232

Why don’t you just continue dressing the way you liked, just without the binder since that’s really the only harmful thing? And if you like short hair better, why grow it out? A lot of women women look much better with short hair and a lot of men would look better with long hair but people just stick to convention instead of what actually suits them and their taste. Your mom is just retarded to tell you all of that stuff, don’t let her get in your head and make this more complicated than it is.

No. 386233

This is like coming into the Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and proclaiming “I have never in my life been stupid enough to try alcohol! I don’t know about you guys!”

No. 386254

How do you deal with lingering dysphoria/body image issues? I cannot make myself want (or even feel neutral) about my breasts no matter how hard I try to convince myself. I know that it's because I physically developed very early (breasts by 8, a period by 9) and it caused a lot of bullying and sexual harassment. My parents were getting into alteractions with men who leered at me in public by the time I was in the 3rd grade. Boys made up rumors about me being "easy," would draw stick figures with huge boobs to make fun of me, would try to grope me in the hall. Predictably, I have always hated having my breasts, have always dreamt of getting rid of them, I hate everything about them, having them touched during sex makes me feel physically nauseous, etc. I can't help but feel like if I got rid of them, I'd be so much happier and feel so much freer. I don't identify as nonbinary anymore, and I thought desisting and accepting being female/the fact misogyny drove me to resent my body would help alleviate how much I want to get a masectomy, but it hasn't. It feels like my body is a prison. My mother always points out how I didn't like to hug anyone after a certain age, and it's just because I hate having breasts. But when I wore my binder, my confidence was great and I could hug people without flinching, wear whatever I liked, strike up conversation, stand up straight. It makes me so sad, I just don't know what to do or how to learn to accept it. Therapists always just recommend the masectomy.

No. 386288

Yeah, unironically. I have a history of addiction in my family and have never touched drugs because of that.

No. 386308

thanks for sharing, autist who can't read the room.

No. 386337

Have you thought about getting a breast reduction instead of a mastectomy?

No. 386351

I am starting to strongly consider this, I think I just feel embarrassed or like I "failed" by not learning how to accept my anatomy as is. I wouldn't be able to medically justify it to insurance aside from classifying it as gender affirming surgery, but I'm getting desperate.

No. 386353

File: 1710907172704.jpg (26.96 KB, 510x498, 1457818661503.jpg)

Well idk man, have you ever considered that when most of the world out there is telling you that becoming the opposite sex is retarded, and having to go through weird ass medical procedures and drugs didn't tip you off, maybe it's time to accept the consequence of your own actions, even if some people around you enabled you. I have actually been here several times, not exactly with trannyism but with other shit in my life, and as much as I would love to pin the blame on my enablers, at the end it was me who was retarded and ignored naysayers.(bait)

No. 386355

This is so not the thread for this. People are accepting the consequences, that’s what detransitioning is. Congrats, you’re smarter than everyone else; go make a too-intelligent-to-troon out thread.

No. 386357

Trannies have a similar body dysmorphia to anorexics, they both know deep inside what they're doing is wrong but their diseased way of thinking makes it impossible for them to stop.
I'll never understand the anons that come into random threads to start infights about shit they dont understand. And for your information im neither a trans identifying person nor an anorexic but I've known both and know why they do what they do. It's sad.

No. 386359

Some people like pointing and laughed at others mistakes to feel better about themselves. Anon is acting like %90 of teen girls become trannies and she's super speshul for being immune to it as if it's not a rare scenerio.

No. 386360

Duh nona, everyone knows that teenage girls are the ones with all the power, they should blame themselves forever for not realizing they were being lied to by medical professionals while in a very vulnerable emotional state. But really, I find the smugness surrounding detransitioners from every political camp to be so bizarre and very presumptuous.
Honestly, I think it's worse in some respects because doctors and therapists will enable transitioning in a way they never enable anorexia. It's like if an anorexic walked into a therapist's office and the therapist helped them come up with a starvation plan and told them they're super valid and brave, and then their doctor wrote a prescription for appetite suppressants.

No. 386390

File: 1710938870524.gif (60.98 KB, 90x90, 979.gif)

I remember first finding out about all the gender stuff when I was 11. I was always a tomboy but also enjoyed typically 'girly' stuff at times too, so when I first heard of the term genderfluid, I latched onto it. Actually, at first I called myself trans for a few months but deep down inside, I knew nobody would ever take me seriously, that I'd never be a real guy and that my family would want nothing to do with me if I got all the surgeries and hormones and transitioned. So I stuck with genderfluid, as it was the safer option. All I had to do was change my clothes and hairstyle KEK. Then when I was 18 and the gendie shit started booming on tiktok, even I thought it was over the top and really cringe. I never believed in neopronouns and xenogenders and all that crap and thought it was fucking pathetic. I also hated the way people would 'kin' characters, and say they got 'gender envy' from them. I had a tif friend that had a crush on me, and secretly looked down on her because she'd always talk about being a manly man but had the highest pitched voice and the most female hobbies and interests, and typing style. I thought she was cringe as fuck but only continued to talk to her because I was the new kid that year and she was the first person who spoke to me. But other than that, I still did believe in the gendie shit because I continued to call myself genderfluid kek. I also said I supported trans people, of course. Until one day my brother came to me saying he was a transgirl. When my own brother started saying he was trans, I suddenly felt disgusted and uncomfortable. For a while, I felt guilty and thought I might be a bad person. I tried everything to get him to stop without outright saying it, because I didn't want to sound transphobic. I just didn't want to start calling my brother 'sister'. Sounds dumb but it felt like he was dying and being replaced. We had a lot of fights, but after a year I thankfully managed to convince him he was just a gay dude in denial. I started growing my hair out when I started college because I got the sudden realisation that no one would take me seriously as a genderfluid 'guy'. I'm short as fuck and have a super feminine face, and I didn't want to be considered in the same boat as my cringey tif friends and all those neopronoun having freaks on tiktok. I thought I was better than them. Then one day I accidentally found lolcow while looking up drama on cryaotic kek. I start exploring the whole site and find myself agreeing with the so-called 'evil terfs', shit happens, and BOOM I peak past the stratosphere. Thanks guys, I love you all for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so much better now and finally have a place to talk to like-minded people because I always thought I was crazy, or evil, or that everyone in the world was brainwashed (too far-right or too liberal) and I was the only normal one.

No. 386413

Being seen as a butch lesbian is terrifying to me, I have no confidence to pull it off, visible boobs and being a masculine woman will just invite more comments I can't deal with. Feels like I'm doing something wrong by cutting my hair again, my retardation goes back to lots like my mother sure, but my therapist can't separate detransing from being feminine. Common with straight gender critical women I guess. She says I don't suit short hair, longer hair looks much better, doesn't disagree when I say I noticed femininity is a social status thing, it's a way for women to communicate and what I'm communicating right now is very low status, I look like a really weird and socially unaware loser because I don't know what to do with myself anymore, I gave up. On one hand radfems say being a woman is just about existing but I'm not happy just existing, I want to like how I look, I want to feel attractive to women, I want a social/dating life. On the other hand, I'm getting the message femininity is the answer so I'm battling against myself not to cut my hair. Fitting in would make everything social easier, but I always end up with "I'm not putting makeup on, I don't want a chest, I can't bare to prettify myself, long hair is fucking annoying, fuck curves, I'm embarrassed" meltdowns and think I'm broken and trapped or being autistic, and the tranny thoughts come back like that's the the way out.

General vent: I know what it's like for women to treat me as one of them for conforming, for female strangers to smile at me, compliment me, be friendly and treat me as approachable, and I associate it with not being masculine (when my mother "intervened" and styled me). Men were disgusting, and trying to be more feminine gave me an ED (which is probably where my confidence actually came from). When I kind of passed as a man, I didn't base my confidence off those suddenly non-existent interactions with women, I based it off liking my clothes and how I styled them and most of all looking like a guy. I felt like I was being myself. I was treated like a guy in that I never received any bitchy comments from teen boys like I do now. I got left alone. It was lonelier but I read that's how most men feel and embracing it is stoicism. I cancelled my gender clinic meeting because I got sad a diagnosis would mean I really am the problem, it brought up childhood alienation shit. The girls would be in their groups gossiping in the playground and I'd be playing with the boys until one day puberty hit everyone and the boys realised I was just a girl who didn't want to date them. As an adult I started to feel like I missed out on girlhood because something is wrong with me, and "I'm still missing out on connections with women because something is still wrong with me". Even if I gained confidence as a butch lesbian I'm sure I'd be treated like a predator, freak, failwoman dyke, whatever, I don't have the energy. I'm really annoyed at myself and it shows in my life, it's just not moving ever since detransing like all the paths forward ran out.

No. 386420

Your therapist is retarded too, a lot of therapists are retarded so don’t take her words without a grain of salt. I just don’t see the point in dressing and styling yourself in a way you hate. Sure maybe it’s more socially accepted to be girly but it seems like a hollow victory when you’re this miserable about wearing styles you loath. You already know what styling makes you feel confident, so just do that again but this time without the rib crusher and the acknowledgment that it doesn’t make you a man, just a cool woman. And you also say you’re trying to be attractive to women, and gay/bi women notoriously love masculine dressing women, so again, the answer feels obvious.
Your mom and your therapists and randos will continue to be retarded to you about it but fuck them, you know what you like. I also hate long hair and feminine clothing and I’ve always been a woman. Ime you can’t force yourself to like those things. I tried in late high school but I never got used to it and it always felt alien and goofy (bc tbh a lot of feminine styling is objectively dumb). I cut my hair and started buying formal shoes from the little boy’s section (curse of tiny feet kek) for work and I feel much more confident and I’m never going back. If I was big enough to buy men’s clothes I would do that too, instead I’m always hunting for the most neutral looking stuff in the women’s section.
> Even if I gained confidence as a butch lesbian I'm sure I'd be treated like a predator, freak, failwoman dyke
I hate to break this to you but since you said you never medically transitioned, only dressed masculine… you were probably already being perceived that way by most people. And you said back then you were confident.

No. 386851

If your therapist can’t separate being a woman from being feminine then she’s retarded and you should find a new therapist. Therapists are just human and they’re not perfect. Just because they have a degree doesn’t mean they’re always right and they know what they’re talking about. I had 2 separate therapists who, when I told them I was bisexual and had a boyfriend, were like “Does that mean that you need to have a girlfriend too?” If therapists can’t even wrap their heads around what bisexual means, how are they supposed to understand what detransition means when they’ve been fed at least a decade of propaganda encouraging people to transition for being GNC?

If you want to cut your hair, cut your damn hair. My hair hasn’t been below my shoulders since I was 13 and I love it that way. I’ve even shaved it entirely bald twice. Just wear what you want and look how you want and if anyone tries to give you a hard time about it they are the one being the asshole.

No. 387553

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im probably overthinking this but does somebody have advice for NOT being seen as mtf over on terf island?

im moving there soon, and i look just how i looked before t, but my voice worries me. its not even overly deep, but its not feminine, a voice test ranges me just under the neutral towards the male line.

not sure if its stupid but i really dont wanna be seen as a tranny. im gonna mention the detransition as soon as i can with people ill work with, but working in customer service i honestly thought already getting some terfy pins or some shit, even to make a stance generally

No. 387557

I think you’re overthinking it. You look like a woman, I’m certain you’re movement and mannerisms look like a woman, and there are women with voices naturally closer to a male range, think of all those songs where you’re not sure if the singer is male or female. Since you say you look basically the same as before your transition and the only thing is that your voice is lower, I wouldn’t even bother explaining to anyone and I doubt you even have to, honestly I think that would come off as weirder.

No. 387595

Most people here don't know and don't care about trans stuff. Only the terminally online take it seriously.

The whole "terf island" thing is a meme that's spun off as part of the more general poking fun at the UK.

No. 387602

The only box I've ever found people put me in because of my deep voice is 'must be a lesbian' Thats about it in ten years of having it. I really thought it was deep enough that surely everyone will know my history of taking t or worse, assume I'm mtf. No, just gay assumptions.

It's up to you but coming outta trans shit and diving into anti trans shit irl with pins on to declare it is alot. If anything is gonna draw attention to you and any lasting effects that you're not comfortable with.. it's doing that.

No. 387632

How did the 'terf island' thing emerge?

No. 387638

Nothing wrong with cheating the system to fund your thing. Reductions are much less drastic, I've had a cosmetic procedure done one a singular fixation that has a traumatic backstory (won't blog about it to stay on-topic) and it completely cured my issue, despite not getting the "ultimate" result which would be analogous to total mastectomy in your case. So I'm trying to say, it's possible that in your situation a reduction would alleviate your fixation and help you move on the way it helped me.

No. 387728

Lately I’ve been having vivid sexual dreams where I’m trans again, I have top surgery in my dreams (I don’t irl), am dating a woman again (I’m with a man and haven’t been with a woman for several years). Not sure how to make heads or tails of it. Been happening pretty consistently for about a month, it’s uncomfortable and annoying to wake up to. I haven’t been consuming porn (which was the main factor behind what I did) or anything like that for almost a year either so not sure what would be influencing it all of a sudden, I’m over a decade desist at this point…

Does anyone else have this issue? How do you manage it?

No. 388677

Does anyone else get upset when trying to talk to people about trans topics and criticizing things and it feels like no one is listening? I don't understand why I keep bothering joining conversations about trans topics when I just get called a conservative fool in the end. I'm not even conservative, but apparently being critical of trans things makes me a conservative in the eyes of TRA's. It makes me feel like I'm in the wrong for believing in biology. Trying to tell them that masculine or feminine preferences doesn't make anyone a different sex or mean anything in general falls on deaf ears. I should probably stop talking about trans topics and just forget what I went through but sometimes I just want to be heard.

No. 388682

No keep talking, you’re right. The extremely indoctrinated ones probably won’t stop shutting you down with false accusations but always remember there are other people who may be quietly observing.

No. 389546

used to believe i was an enby/genderfluid but i'm a tomboy. sometimes i do have my moments that i struggle with it but then I think if femboys can act the way they do and still identify as their sex then i can too

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