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I want to learn more about female accomplices. Specifically, are there any cases of a woman who was kidnapped/abused and then helped the guy continue his crimes?
Also, thoughts on the Florida shooter/shooting?
Most narcissistic types tend to convince their partners and make them disposable for their own use.
Change that to the narc wants to murder someone.
Although there are different cases where is just two very damaged people that want to do more damage.
Karla Homolka, was given a light sentence claiming abuse and instruction by her partner Paul Bernado. However, I feel like that she's just as sick if not more than him because she decided to let me rape and kill her sister together.
She was never really the victim though and she wasn't a target when they met either esp. since he liked her like for sadism.
A lot of women generally involed in a couple-crime thing have been abused and manipulated by the guy to get in that position. As an anon above suggested you could try Fred and Rose West. You could also check out David Parker Ray, the toybox killer, who used his daughter to bring him victims.
You may find Myra Hindley and her dynamic with Ian Brady interesting.
If you haven't already seen a documentary on Mary Bell, she was a child who with a less intelligent child accomplice,murdered a young boy. the documentary is very gripping. I can provide links on some of these if you like.
I have been re-reading EAR/ONS stuff and it always gives me chills. Especially the audio recordings of his voicemails. Him and David Parker Ray are the two that really freak me out.
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not really a documentary, but watch the tv show most evil with dr. michael stone. Really good episodes, but some of them are receptive.
really? I felt like it got better as time moved along. A lot more structured and clearer. The casey anthony episodes were really good tbh.
i've heard mixed reviews on waco. who is portrayed the worst on it, ADF or Koresh?
I did enjoy the Casey Anthony episodes because I was really caught up in that case when it happened but prior to that I just kind of lost interest. Maybe it's just me not catching interest in their latest topics or something. I just feel like the voices/jokes are dragged on for too long and it makes it annoying to listen to. Though Marcus' research has become way more detailed and expansive over time, I agree.
As far as Waco, it's kind of hard to explain. I feel like at different parts throughout the series they were either extremely heavy handed implying the ATF was completely at fault, while other parts they would seem to be focusing on Koresh as calculating at worst and neglectful at best. For the first four or so episodes it seems like they focused on humanizing and sympathizing the Branch Davidians and Koresh himself, and it definitely seems like they were setting it up for the ATF to be portrayed as the bad guys and the BD to be saints. They seemed to gloss over all of the accusations against Koresh and when it was mentioned, it wasn't portrayed in as bad of a light as I would have preferred personally. The main negotiator was portrayed as the overall good guy who really tried but was constantly battling with himself as to what the right thing to do would be. But then in the last two episodes, it evened out a bit until the very end. There's a powerful moment in the last few minutes of the last episode that reveals a strong bias so you can take from that what you will. Overall I think they did a decent job showing that the ATF and FBI made some fatal mistakes and didn't think things through, or got fed up to the point where they weren't keeping the victims best interests in mind, but at the same time, Koresh and his people had numerous opportunities after the initial altercation to slowly file out or save the children and they kept putting it off and putting it off or going back on their word until it was too late.
TLDR; both sides were portrayed as being in the wrong at different times throughout the series. I'd say the authorities were portrayed worse overall. They didn't go that hard on Koresh himself, but I chalk that up to the series being mostly about the siege itself and not the lifestyle and actions of Koresh beforehand.
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I'm so annoyed that people called the Buckskin Girl's alleged family and sperged at them. They reported her missing back in the day, but the file was (probably) lost in the 37 years since then. Had people acted civil, the family might have opened up to the public with the details of what might have happened. Fucking spergs ruining things again. Now the family has asked people to redact all their names and the information they shared, to the point that they've had to remove their personal social media.
It's an open murder investigation, like that isn't hard enough on the family. It's all unofficial anyways, until the police confirm the DNA match too. Some people are even doing the "nah this is a Barbara streisand effect, don't censor the people, muuhhh riiights!". Fuck you and your rights, none of us know the real circumstances.
Why are true crime fans such awful spergs with their pRoFeSsiOnaL oPiNioNss and autistic obsession (like how some spergs end up wanting to fuck serial killers jfc)?
thanks anon, that was a wild ride.
She accumulated almost 6.5 million dollars through killing. Staged her own death and was never caught. Boggles my mind. This is a horrifying story but I would lie if I said I'm not impressed by how she managed to get out of this unscratched, with huge fortune
the creator of sword & scale, mike boudet, deserves his on lolcow thread tbh. there was a facebook group about him for a while but it switched to private and i can't find it. he's truly insane. podcast was really good quality until he started inserting his own opinions in towards the end.
podcast recs though: true crime garage (has some comedic element but not slapsticky like LPOTL, can't stand that pod) although the captain can get a bit annoying, atlanta monster, dirty john, criminal, up & vanished, casefile is also excellent
>>239986>Why are true crime fans such awful spergs with their pRoFeSsiOnaL oPiNioNss and autistic obsession (like how some spergs end up wanting to fuck serial killers jfc)?
This, I don't get why people can't be interested in true crime but be fucking civil and sensible about it. I used to follow a forum dedicated to discussing crime cases but people there got so fucking spergy every thread was derailed into infighting and retarded, nonsensical theories.
As for the serial killer stans, I remember a local girl who adored a school shooter (he shot himself after the shooting) so much that she visited his grave to bring flowers and fucking chocolate, and stood there talking and singing to him. She came across an ex-close friend of the shooter who was at the grave to pay his respects and the girl got excited, asking him about the details of the shooter's life and announcing how happy she was to meet his friends, like talking about a celebrity. Really messed up. I believe she was planning to shoot up a school herself but was caught by the police at the last minute.
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I hate most people who are into true crime because they’re all interested for gross reasons and are total edgelords to boot, Peter Sotos is a great writer but he’s a perfect example of this. He wrote the foreword for the Ian Brady book, Ian Brady being one of the most grotesque pigs with delusions of grandeur.
Anyhow, the case that I think is most interesting/depressing is the Sylvia Likens case. It’s especially fucked because a bunch of the kids who participated got online in the early aughts and started posting on message boards. They’re huge fucking horrorcows with orbiters who protect the hell out of them, one of Gertie’s daughters was going around saying how Sylvia was actually an awful person and sort of deserved it, they’re total shits.
The case itself inspired some horrific fiction, too, namely Let’s Go Play at the Adams’ and The Girl Next Door. I know they tried to make the Baniszewski house into a home for runaway girls at one point but the mojo there was just too bad. It ended up being demolished.
If you want to see some of the fuckery that her kids engaged in you can go to http://fortheloveofsylvia.blogspot.com/2013/11/was-stephanie-gulity.html
Really nasty people.
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I have been lurking in the True Crime Community for some time on tumblr (for info, not wanking to killers). It's clear how it's about the sexual appeal of those degenerates for most people in it AND the glorification of male violence. Cases where a women was a perpetrator never get any attention.
It made me sad to have no-one to talk to about Parker-Hulmes murder, as I am obsessed over it. It's also as mainstream as they come, with several books written on it and a fucking Peter Jackson movie made. The teenage murderers are also extremely relatable (beyond the murder, of course).
Not to mention that one of them became a famous crime fiction writer years after the murder.
If those were two fanfiction-writing boys murdering a mother of one of them in order to be together forever, they would have a fandom more obsessed than Columbiners (yikes).
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Thank you for bringing up how female killers are regarded, anon. I share your fascination with the Parker-Hulme case. At the time the case was widely covered by the media, but it did not have a following until the film renewed interest.
The only case of female teen (attempted) killers in recent times that has captured a comparable amount of media attention is that of Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser. Do they have a fandom of the sort that their male counterparts attract?
Adult female killers seem to consistently be regarded by men as "crazy bitches". They are only romanticised when they committed crimes as part of a romantic duo with a man.
I saw the movie with Ellen Page, and then did my research into the deets and man those kids were rotten.
I tried to read the blog you linked but tbh it's formatted horribly and I don't really care for the commentary in bold after every quoted paragraph. On mobile it's really confusing to read.
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does anyone have rare images you don't see posted often of serial killers? pic related i've never seen this colored picture of bundy till recently
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Just watched a doco about this cunt I'd argue he's the sickest shithead I've ever learned about. They should've gave the guy who smashed his skull in prison a medal.
It's still insane how the guy consecutively got away with some gruesome ass murders even in the face of police.
OMG, I am so happy that another farmer is interested in Parker-Hulme! Have you read So Brilliantly Clever aka Anne Perry and the murder of the century? This is the definitive take on the case which answers pretty much all questions and reveals plenty of detailes about girls' life and friendship. I was so glad to finally find out WHY they fought that Honora was the obstacle to them being together forever. Finding out the reason (Juliet's parents bullshitting the girls that they have already bought the ticket for Pauline to go with them, but Honora is not agreeing for Pauline to go even though they had zero intention of taking Pauline with them as they were sick of the drama, the alleged homosexuality of the girls and they didn't consider Pauline a family at all) made me realize Peter Jackson didn't reveal it in the movie in order to not partially shift the blame to the Hulmes.
I wish I could get my hands on Pauline's diary and the girls' novels (even though they were pretty bad/avarage according to Henry Hulme). I am so fascinated by their imagination and self-indulgence. I have compilated a list of the novels and movies that have inspired them (all mentioned in So Brilliantly Clever) and I'm going to read/watch them all.
How do you feel about Anne Perry and Hilary Nathan?
Omg, I wish I could talk with you about the case. Got discord or a throwaway email address?
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Sage for samefag, but recently here in Poland there was a very huge case of Zuzanna Maksymiuk aka Maria Goniewicz - an 18 y/o Instagram 'poet' murdering her boyfriends' parents (with his help). It's very similar to the Hulme-Parker case:>parricide>one of the murderers (Maria/Juliet) has an academic parent>the murderer is an intelligent, creative girl who seems to be highly emotional (writing novels/poetry)>idiotic and brutal murder that is so badly planned that the police catches the perpetrators immediately >the murderer whose parents get killed becomes ashamed and realizes what they've done (or it seems), the other one continues doing their shit (Maria is still writing poetry behind the prison walls, Anne Perry is extremely prolific writer. Both seem to act like sociopaths in how little emotion and guilt they feel about the murder)>obvious, but - the murderous couple gets separated immediately and probably will never see each other again
Also Maria had a relationship with a 2 years younger girl (in middle school) and was sent to trail for it.
I will happily tell you more about the case if you are interested.
Sure! Give me a day or two to compile information and translate it. I have a weak memory, so I have to reread articles for the details and accuracy.
Glad someone else is interested.
sorry for the slight derail, ntayrt but the straya is showing through "doco", not cunt.>>240761
I just wanted to post about it! ahah
What really hit me is that the mother had escaped, they chased her and knifed her on the doorstep… (they attacked boy's parents in their bed, sleeping)
More to add, the girl had a really strong personality, she was edgy and overly tumblr artistic, and the boy was considered quiet and gentle. It was her idea to kill his parents, who didn't approve of their relationship. Honestly, it still baffles me how she managed to influence him. Like how do you persuade someone that the best solution to the problem is fucking knifing the parents in their sleep…? What the fuck were they thinking
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Good to see other polanons there.
Thread kinda reminded me of Urszula Olszowska, who left her home saying she's going to meet friend in Kraków's old town, only to be found dead 120km away in mountains.
It is said that she commited suicide or had an accident, yet then it's weird how she was nearly naked, with her clothes being scattered around the place.
It's also unofficially known that her jaw was broken and some teeth were missing.
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RIP Marcia King of Arkansas aka Buckskin Girl, the Police had a press conference today and they confirmed her identity. A bit over a week from being 37 years unidentified, she finally got her name back thanks to the DNA Doe Project.
The mother had lived 35 years in the same address, with the same phone number, hoping that Marcia will show up one day. So heartbreaking.http://www.whio.com/news/local/miami-county-sheriff-office-release-new-details-1981-unsolved-homicide-case/fmfdENjXMReEHV5VZGPcpI/
I'm glad her mom at least got some closure
Its great we have the technology to do this now
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>>241667>why are you such a cunt?
What? Did you mean to reply to another anon or
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Oops, I meant to respond to >>241568
I'm so heartened she was identified. I've been following that case for a while and I'm glad what was left of her family got closure.
Another Doe I hope is identified is the Belle Chasse John Doe. His suicide letter is haunting.
She was 21 and the family says they did try to file a police report. The articles don't mention it since police say they have no paperwork left, aka the claim can't be proven. A lot of the articles talking about this make the family look bad to sensationalize it. The Dailymail one is the worst offending article.
Judging by the mother staying at the house with the same number, it is obvious she did report Marcia missing at one point and deeply cared for her. Before the family deleted their social media, her half brother was posting on Facebook how heartbroken they all were. He also talked about how they had hired a private investigator in the past to try and find her with no avail.>>241678
As said, there's no reason to be a cunt about it. The family is going through hell right now, getting to know Marcia was murdered all those years ago and people blaming them for it.
Forgot to add this, the only reason why the identification was so fast after the original GEDMatch to the second cousin?
The second cousin doing genealogy knew Marcia was missing. The whole extended family was aware that Marcia was missing, and had tried to find her for decades.
I'm definitely going to look for some now starting with the ones mentioned in this thread. Tbh, I keep forgetting podcasts exist.>>241910
Junko's death makes me cry. The story of the police officers not investigating fully the first time made me sick or the parents who knew she was in the house but did nothing because of their son's yakuza conncections.
There was a case in 2014 of a girl who decapitated a classmate and while her hobbies included disecting animals, the usual games/internet were blamed. Mental health in general is so ignored in places like Japan and S.Korea that it's a wonder there aren't more incidents.
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Does anybody have a tcc account on tumblr? I've noticed over the years that columbiners have been becoming less crazy, surprisingly. I was scrolling through my dash today, and thankfully most of the 4/20 posts were about the victims, not eric&dylan. Weird how this is happening when cruzers are still out there
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Is anyone planning to see the movie about Ted Bundy starring Zac Efron? I’m wondering how they plan on portraying him and if this is going to make people gravitate to true crime for the wrong reasons.
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For once a captured killer is not described by neighbors as a quiet unassuming guy whom no one noticed.
The Mail loves nothing more than a gruesome crime story. They are running several detailed articles today.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5657893/Neighbors-suspected-Golden-State-Killer-72-speak-shock.html
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A British woman has been convicted of garroting, stabbing and burying the body of an autistic teenager in Western Australia.
Jemma Lilley, previously of Stamford, Lincolnshire, murdered 18-year-old Aaron Pajich at her home in Perth, burying him in a shallow grave and covering it with concrete and tiles.
Lilley said she wanted to kill someone before she turned 25, and once she had ticked off murder from her “bucket list” she was so “full of herself and euphoric” that she could not help boasting to a work colleague, prosecutor James McTaggart told the court during the four-week trial.
The 26-year-old, who was convicted alongside 43-year-old housemate Trudi Lenon, had previously written a book about a serial killer called SOS and went on to assume the identity of the character, the Supreme Court of Western Australia was told.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/autistic-teenager-murdered-euphoria-jemma-lilley-aaron-pajich-garrotting-stabbing-burying-shallow-a8032811.html
Credit to / more links and excerpts of her novel at https://kiwifarms.net/threads/british-woman-murders-autistic-teen-to-feel-euphoria.36135/
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Just heard about, i almost pissed my pants when I saw they caught him. It's an 100% DNA match apparently, and there's other evidence linking him to the crime scenes as well. This is insane. >>244127
i'm pretty pumped for the trailer to come out, the movie seems pretty iffy though with the director having weak career. People have been wanting to fuck him since forever so it really doesn't matter to me. As long as hybristos stay in their tumblr containment zone, it's all good.
And of course it's an ex cop.
What's really disturbing is that the known rapes committed by him are confirmed to have happened while he was still on the force.
It pisses me off.
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Here's a picture of him when he was young. Looks a lot like the police sketches, doesn't it?
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Theresa Knorr. Her wikipedia article has some pretty horrific shit in it. She was a single mother who tortured and murdered 2 of her daughters and would do very sadistic shit to her kids. It's one of those cases that's just inexplicable and really makes me sit and consider human nature.
This is a subject I have really been interested in lately. Particularly, after reading about the case of Genie, the 'feral child.' Her mother, Dorothy Wiley, stood with her husband through over twenty years, four children – two dead as infants under suspicious circumstances – and the horrific abuse of her two children that survived to adulthood. Even then, the abuse present in the family was discovered purely by accident; Dorothy had intended to enlist services from a charity that helped blind people, but she accidentally walked into a welfare office, where the impaired state of her daughter (Genie) was then noticed.
Two articles that correspond to sum up the case:>http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4873347&page=1>https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/14/genie-feral-child-los-angeles-researchers
Read this and imagine yourself in the position of the wife that has this happen in her own home. Does it seem unimaginable?
It makes me think of my mother's upbringing and subsequently my own upbringing. I realised that in the lineage from my grandmother to my mother to me, all three of us fit the exact same psychological profile. 'Broken' women trapped in their own minds who marry violent alcoholic narcissists and who end up unintentionally neglecting and contributing to the abuse of their own children, and contributing likewise to the degradation of the husband by continuously enabling his increasing cruelty. It seriously disturbed me when I made the connection that I can extremely easily see myself being a woman just like Genie's mother, beaten to the point of not only considering myself fundamentally not worth saving, but of being unable to care for my own children, and of being so far gone to not even realise the effect of my inaction. It makes me afraid for the future. I want to immerse myself in literature explaining the phenomenon to make sure that I can't forget this realisation.
Sage for being somewhat off topic, I'm just really hoping someone else shares my interest into the psychology of the women that find themselves in these situations.
I return to this topic a lot, specifically with Genie, the Fritzl case and a particularly vile Japanese murder case where a girlfriend joined in on the torture a group of men inflicted on a woman. I also think a lot about how the media likes to seasaw between portraying Myra Hindley as worse than her partner purely because she's a woman and to imagine whether her capacity for cruelty would have been so bad if she had never met him, and vice versa. It's in a similar vein to imagining yourself in nazi Germany and trying to guage where you can draw the line between being unforgivable about 'just trying to survive'.
I try not to dwell on it too much because you can really made yourself quite moody thinking about it all.
Fucking good, they should burn him alive. He was in jail bragging about what he did and talking about young girls with an undercover officer, and he tried to ask for a retrial because e didn’t want the jury to be shown pictures of what he did to the little girl, saying they were “too gruesome”. Like, yeah?
That’s why you need to die you sick fuck, because you did that and you have no remorse for it.
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Last year (2012) a woman named Toni Ingram started a blog.http://morganingram.com/wordpressThis blog was to commemorate her daughter, Morgan, who had committed suicide the previous December. Toni, however, believed that Morgan was stalked and killed by a neighbor boy. She wrote her blog on a day-by-day basis, taking from notes and memory from the year before, leading her readers down a trail of fear and shock as the “stalking” escalated.At first.This blog was shared over on a true crime forum called Websleuths. Many of us followed the blog. Most felt Toni was telling the truth and agonized over Morgan’s death.Finally, the police reports, autopsy reports, toxicology screens, and murder investigation reports were released, and we were all able to view the case from both sides. It was apparent to all but a few die-hards that Toni – at the very least – was delusional, at most was potentially dangerous. Munchausen by proxy was mentioned by several people in the psych field, as well as a new phenomenon called Munchausen by Internet. Either way, there was no stalking and there was no murder.The true crime board closed discussion on the case after it was decided Morgan had killed herself, since no crime had been committed. A group of us created our on board to continue investigation of the case. Our group (and yes, there are many of us involved) decided to make the official documents available for other people who wanted all the details of the story they were reading, so we put up our own website, so people would make informed decisions about the case before donating money or investing emotion. We later added another site.https://truthformorgan.wordpress.comhttps://mayramm.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/121/https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/10/24/suicide-or-murder-what-happened-to-morgan-ingram/
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my fave case at the moment is the Jean-Claude Romand one, cuz it's crazy.
The man pretended to be working at the World Health Organization for 18 years, when he never actually passed his 2nd study year.
He spent his days pretending to go to work, but he stayed all day reading medical books in his car. He killed his whole family when he was about to get exposed.
What's crazy is how , for 18 years, it never arose suspicions,as he read every book he could. He was able to discuss medical complexities with another doctor at family gatherings for example, and NO ONE could tell, not even doctors. This is such a fascinating story. It recently was talked about again because he asked for a parole ? something along those lines (I'm French I dunno the equivalent)
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This story is creepy and weird af. There's a good sword and scale episode about it too. Mostly copy pasted from various wikis
>Matthew Hoffman, an unemployed tree trimmer, obsessed with trees and leaves and stockpiled leaves in his home
>He didn't like to go grocery shopping so he mostly ate squirrels he shot outside his house
>A neighbor said "He would sit and listen to us up in a tree. He had a hammock and he would sit there and listen to us,"
>On November 10, 2010, he randomly selected the Apple Valley, Ohio house of Tina Herrmann because it was more secluded and the garage door was always left slightly open
>he sneaked into the home after the residents left, remaining inside for an hour until Tina and neighbor Stephanie Sprang unexpectedly returned. Surprised, Hoffman murdered both, and then attacked Tina's two children, 13-year-old Sarah and 11-year-old Kody, when they stumbled upon the scene. He also killed their dog
>He later claimed that he hadn't planned to kill anyone
>Killing Kody, Hoffman then held Sarah captive and took her and the bodies to his Mount Vernon home, tying Sarah to a bed of leaves in the basement
>Next, he dismembered the bodies of his fatal victims, taking and disposing the parts the next day into a hollow, 60-foot tree in the Kokosing Wildlife Area using his tree-climbing equipment
>At one point he was questioned by police but they released him after he claimed that he had a girlfriend and was waiting for her to get off of work
>He kept Sarah tied to the makeshift bed of leaves and sexually assaulted her repeatedly for 4 days
>Hoffman told investigators that the little girl "liked that bed, it was extremely comfy and I wanted to sleep on it."
>He also admitted raping the girl, who was found by police wearing "a white plastic bag that had holes cut out for her legs that she was wearing like a makeshift diaper," according to case files.
>Deputies finally linked everything when they found, while still examining the Herrmann home, a Walmart bag with two tarps and a box of 55-gallon, heavy-duty trash bags. They found his identity via Walmart surveillance footage
>When they got to his house, they found him sleeping on the couch and initially thought that the bodies may have been hidden in the 14x14, 3ft tall piles of leaves all over his house
>Some speculation that the leaves were intended to serve as an accelerant for setting his house on fire and fleeing. He had a history of arson
>He was sentenced to life in prison without parole on June 6, 2011
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The bathroom where he used leaves as insulation
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Bed of leaves where he kept Sarah. There's a picture of her in the bed bound but I know pictures of minors aren't allowed on here
Holy shit anon I have not heard of this! People are endlessly fascinating and cruel. What happened in this guy's life to make him that way? Was he born like that? Crazy…
We were speaking on crowd crushes in the other thread– I cannot for the life of me find the name of the battle again, but some General was outnumbered by the opposing force and used his men and horses to basically surround and cause a crush of the opposition. I really wish I could find it again; if anyone knows what I'm referring to please holler!
Someone brought up the Station Nightclub fire. This video is a simulation of the people within.
>The simulation predicts evacuation through available doors and windows. A number of people perish in this simulation due to the rapidly developing fire. The colour coding of the people indicates the response time band for the occupants. The people coloured red reacted most rapidly, they are on the dance floor. The colour of the floor is an indication of the smoke concentration at head height. The darker the colour, the thicker the smoke at head height. Finally, the body markings on the floor represents where we predict a fatality occured.
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Oh boy do I have a treat for you!
>Peter Kurten>German serial killer born to poverty in1883>"The Vampire of Düsseldorf" >father would force all 11 children to watch him force his wife to strip naked and fuck, was also jailed for incest with his daughter>father also forced him to watch as he raped farm animals throughout his childhood>brutally beat the shit out of Peter at any given chance as he was the eldest surviving son; Peter often refused to come home from school for days and weeks at a time, spending time in the streets>liked to tag along with the town dog catcher, because he enjoyed seeing and likely participating in killing the dogs as was custom>this of course lead to a past-time of torturing and killing animals>spent most of his time on the streets as a young man, introduced to all kinds of petty crime and hardened criminals who acted as a surrogate for his home life>He claimed to have committed his first murders at the age of nine, when he pushed a school friend who he knew was unable to swim off a log raft. When a second boy attempted to save the drowning youngster, Kürten held this boy's head underwater in order that both boys drowned. Both deaths were ruled by authorities as being accidental.>at age 13 resorted to bestiality and literal blood lust: To relieve his sexual urges, Kürten resorted to acts of bestiality with the sheep, pigs and goats in local stables, but later claimed he obtained his greatest sense of elation if he actually stabbed these animals just before his achieving orgasm.>Thus, he began stabbing and slashing animals with increasing frequency to achieve orgasm, although he was adamant this behaviour ended when he was observed stabbing a pig. >then tried to rape the same sister who was raped by their father >in 1897, he relocated to Koblenz, where he began a brief relationship with a prostitute two years his senior who, he claimed, willingly submitted to every form of sexual perversion he demanded of her.>drafted into German army in 1904 where he committed 24 arsons, which he would discreetly watch from a distance as emergency services attempted to extinguish fires. Was hoping to burn people alive as they slept, apparently. >imprisoned for arsons where he spent much if his time in solitary confinement>He would later claim to investigators and psychologists this period of incarceration was that in which he first encountered severe forms of discipline, and as such, the erotic fantasies included graphic fantasies of his striking out at society and killing masses of people; Kürten later claimed that he derived the "sort of pleasures from these visions that other people would get from thinking about a naked woman", adding that he occasionally spontaneously ejaculated while preoccupied with such thoughts.>The first murder Kürten definitively committed occurred on 25 May 1913. During the course of a burglary, he encountered a nine-year-old girl asleep in her bed. He strangled the child, then slashed her twice across the throat with a pocket knife, ejaculating as he heard the blood dripping from her wounds onto the floor by her bed>hung out at the tavern nearby the next day to revel in the locals' reaction to the murder. >He later recollected to investigators that he derived an extreme sense of gratification from the general disgust, repulsion, and outrage he had heard in the patrons' conversation
He went on to kill more and really loved to ejaculate to the spurts of blood and "life force" leaving his victims' bodies. Just a really really fucked up individual who was borne of poverty, abuse, and depravity. LPOTL has a great episode about him. Definitely the hardest episode of anything murder related I have ever listened to.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kürtenhttps://m.soundcloud.com/lastpodcastontheleft/episode-339-peter-kuerten-part
*edited bc I accidentally left the youtube link for the Hillsborough video
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Yeah i've been following the case since the girls went missing actually. Not sure how I stumbled across it exactly but I remember browsing websleuths, which is a pretty shit site (basically PULL users but 50 years old) but I really wanted them to catch the guy considering one of the girls was smart enough to take pictures/video of him. Any leads they've had seem to have come up with dead ends, unfortunately. In my opinion in that case and a lot of similar ones the perpetrators are long haul truckers or transients who can easily be in and out of areas.
I trained to be a long haul truck driver. I was with my bf the whole time as a team. Went on the road for 3 months driving with him and our trainer. (Yes it was fucking gross.) I was ultimately too scared to continue after our training was over, mainly on my mind at the time was that idk how to drive in snow or rain very well bc of where I live/grew up. But honestly now I'm just glad I didn't pursue it as a career bc of these kinds of dangers. I'm a small woman and sex trafficking is rampant amongst long haul truck drivers. It freaks me out how close I got to doing that for a living and being in danger. Of course all my instructors and trainers (men) assured me that it was a safe occupation in that regard. Nope.
Sage for total blogpost. I never really get a chance talk about my trucking experience.
Oh man I was recently looking into this as well. The body parts everywhere…. the people wandering around lost and dazed and looking for loved ones. Absolutely nuts.>>350077>websleuths, which is a pretty shit site (basically PULL users but 50 years old)
Kek, I had the same experience there. Anyone visit mydeathspace.com or documentingreality.com? I'm not really into gore but every now and then I get curious…
I have always heard horror stories about prostitutes at truck stops (not sure how true) and they seem like the perfect target for a serial killer, and honestly long haul truck driving seems like a perfect occupation if you want to kill. Girls and women no one is looking for who probably were disowned by their family long ago. Not saying you or your bf were serial killers or anything haha clearly not all truck drivers are psychopaths! Overall sex trafficking is a huge issue in the US that most people don't even pay much attention to, in part because law enforcement doesn't have a good handle on concrete numbers>>350087
WS is good for finding newest updates from law enforcement but the speculation from users often gets waaaaay out of hand. There are a lot of cases I wish I could see crime scene photos from though.
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Katherine Knight, who ended up murdering her partner after 3 decades of being incredibly abusive and violent. She stabbed him 37 times, skinned him, beheaded him, and cooked parts of his corpse intending to feed it to his children. What fucks me up is that everyone around her knew how erratic and dangerous she was, but they just sort of accepted it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Knight
There’s more footage around that shows when the emergency vehicles arrive. People were able to get through the entryway but some of them were burned really badly, and at one point you can see a man walking out whose entire body is on fire.The majority of the people who were trapped inside lost consciousness from inhaling the smoke of the fire because it contained toxic chemicals.
When this happened it was all over the news for months, but the news broadcast later and papers would only show images or the first few seconds of the video when the sparks set the ceiling on fire.
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if there's anyone who hasn't heard of this before, look up gypsy blanchard. her story really makes you think and i personally don't think she deserved the jail sentence she got.
I personally think she do deserves and she NEEDS it.
The boy is mentally challenged and got life sentence and while, yes, he did the killing, it was Gypsy's plan.
She is a manipluator like her mother and even if it's not her fault that she became like this, it is necessary that she goes through a lot of therapy to understand how the word works. What is wrong and what is right.
She went through hell, this is for sure. But the girl is really messed up in her head because of it.
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>>350021>>350022>insulation>Some speculation that the leaves were intended to serve as an accelerant for setting his house on fire
At least that makes some sense, when I first learnt about this one there didn't seem to be any logic to it and it made it so much creepier. It's a nightmare of a case, especially the warped mindset of slaughtering the family in front of the little girl, abusing her repeatedly and then kind of babying her in a plastic-bag-nappy and later arguing that he looked after her and lied about how he cooked for her and let her watch films and play video games and how he's so glad they found her. His totally broken moral code makes my skin crawl. How will that girl ever be ok? What would ever feel safe again after any of that?
Not to mention that the cops would never have found the bodies unless they struck a deal with him.
The tree aspect makes me think of Who Put Bella in the Witch Elm. But honestly everything makes me think about that story, even though there's not much solid information
>In 1943, four boys were poaching in an English wood when they came across a large wych elm. Thinking the location to be a good place to hunt birds', one climbed up. As he climbed, he glanced down into the hollow trunk and discovered an animal skull. On closer inspection however he recognised human hair and teeth. As they were trespassing the skull was put back and the boys agreed to not tell anyone about what they had found, but the youngest boy was too affected and broke his silence when he returned home.
>When police checked the trunk of the tree they found an almost complete skeleton with a shoe, a gold wedding ring, and clothing fragments. The skull still had some tufts of hair and a clear dental pattern, despite some missing teeth. On further investigation, the remains of a hand were found near the tree.
>Forensic examination established that it as a female who had been dead for at least 18 months. Some taffeta in her mouth suggested that she had been suffocated. From the measurement of the trunk in which the body had been discovered, it was also deduced that she must have been placed there "still warm" after the killing, as she could not have fitted once rigor mortis had taken hold.
>Police could tell from items found with the body what the woman had looked like, but with so many people reported missing during the war, records were too vast for a proper identification to take place. They cross-referenced the details they had with reports of missing persons throughout the region and also ran the dental records to surrounding practices but found no match.
>In 1944 a graffiti message, appeared on a wall in the region reading "Who put Bella down the Wych Elm - Hagley Wood".>Other graffiti messages in the same hand appeared too at other dates and locations. This led investigators down several new leads tracing who Bella could have been ranging from the disappearance of two sexworkers, one called bella to the theory of a dead German spy.
>Another possibility came from a statement made to police in 1953 from a woman who claimed her ex-husband Mossop had confessed to family members that he and a Dutchman Van Ralt had put the woman in the tree. Mossop met van Ralt and his woman for a drink at a pub. Later that night, Mossop said she became drunk, and passed out while they were driving. The men put her in a hollow tree in the woods in the hope that in the morning she would wake up and be frightened into seeing the error of her ways. Mossop was confined to a mental hospital, because he had recurring dreams of a woman staring out at him from a tree. He died in the hospital before the body in the wych elm was found. The likelihood of this being the correct explanation is questioned because Mrs Mossop did not come forward with this information until more than 10 years after Jack Mossop's death. >Eerier still is the theory that the body was placed there as a gypsy occult ritual, with the severed hand being consistent with a ritual called the Hand of Glory. >This radical idea excited the local press and led investigators to consult another seemingly ritualistic killing of a man in a neighboring area.
>Since at least the 1970s, the graffiti has sporadically appeared on the Hagley Obelisk near to where the woman's body was discovered, which asks the slightly modified "Who put Bella in the Witch Elm?". >>350084
OT but have you ever listened to the Alice Isn't Dead podcast? It's a fictional surreal horror story told by a female gay trucker. I gave up at the start of the second series when the mix of slow pace and surrealism got too much, but at first it painted a really good picture of the terror of those long empty roads
This happened in my local area. What a news day that was…
Anyway, the argument on how much punishment she deserved could really go forever. For every person that thinks it was too harsh, there's someone that thinks she got what she deserved.
The saving grace, in my opinion, is that she seems to be doing really well in prison. It's a really messed up situation, but from her and those around her, the socialization even in such an isolated place is doing wonders for her. I hope that she can truly be rehabilitated and live a happy life after she serves her sentence.
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Ahh this is local to me, I remember in primary school we went to Hagley Hall for a trip and we found out about the Wych Elm years later reading the legends display on local library visits. The graffiti still happens infrequently because of new teens finding out about it, but random places in my county - west midlands.
There is also Charles Walton "witch murder."
>Charles Walton was found pinned to the floor by his own pitch fork just a few hours after he left his Warwickshire cottage to trim hedges on Valentine's Day in 1945. A trouncing hook was in the 74-year-old's throat and a large cross was carved in his chest, sparking suggestions of witchcraft. Mr Walton had lived in the village of Lower Quinton all his life and was well-known. Warwickshire Police said they had a loose suspect but the case was eventually closed due to a lack of evidence.
which stuck with me just because everyone said it was witches (and that they were in the woods so the game was to stay as long as you could near the edge of the woods after school lol). Later found out it happened pretty far away from the area.
[Sage for blogposting.]
Nayrt, I get what you're saying especially about learning that actions have accountability but I also think >>350432
has a point. Often people in prison for small time one-time crimes effectively catch a criminal mindset (and methods) after having to fight to survive somewhere with genuine awful people.
Surely an asylum could help her better.
That was fascinating anon, thank you so much for adding to it! Britain used to have so much weird pagan stuff hidden away, so even if I don't necessarily believe it as a theory for Bella, I love hearing more about it
I've thought a lot about how the graffiti will never end because there will always be fresh edgy teens lol
For sure, some of the stories of people just showing up and pretending to be someone or something during those times are just insane. It's awful to see those sex crimes that have been happening in charities like Oxfam because of course the worst people volunteer only to exploit people in worst circumstance possible
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Some recent and most remembered cases from Houston
Murder of Joe Campos Torres/Fulton riots
23 year old Vietnam veteran beaten to death by white police officers.This sparked community outrage,protests,and the famous fulton riot.Theres are more details that aren't widely shared like how Torres was suffering from PTSD.
The murders of Jennifer Ertman & Elizabeth Pena
Jennifer (14) and Elizabeth (16) were raped and strangled to death by 6 gang members.The members stomped on the girls' throats to ensure their deaths.Again some details left out.My cousin is married to a sister of one of the murderers and can't stomach being around the mom who tries to defend her son every holiday dinner.
The murder of Karen Perez
Raped and murdered by her boyfriend who recorded himself sexually assaulting her.
Satanic ritual slaying of 15 year old Gorriam Cervantes
Cervantes was found strangled with a belt,stabbed several times and bludgeoned in the face with a porcelain toilet cover by 16 year-old Jose Reyes and 16 year old friend.
I wasn't referring to her gaining a sense of morality. I meant in terms of socialization, she's doing better, even in a prison environment. There are a handful of people who have visited her and spoken to her, as well as her father and stepmother, and they all seem to be in agreement that this hasn't been an entirely negative experience for her. Then again, I don't know Chillicothe's reputation in regards to rehabilitation, so I can't say how this will shake out in the long run…
Would a mental facility be better? Maybe. And I wouldn't be opposed to her being put in one. But asylums can be just as damaging as a prison, depending on the factors. Really, all I'm saying that is, despite the terrible situation and where she's been put, she is making progress. I can only hope that continues, and that she has the support system she'll need when she gets out. I think she will, her father and stepmother seem to care about her health and happiness.
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Did anyone follow the Chis Watts case? Happened back in August, married father of 2 kills his pregnant wife and dumps his daughters bodies in crude oil tanks after smothering them to death.
The reason this story is so compelling and fascinating is because it's the first of it's kind to have raw video footage (police body cams) uploaded to youtube throughout the entire case. Almost like a lifetime movie you can observe this woman belittle her husband in Facebook live videos, watch him turn to cheating as she second guesses her marriage, and ultimately bear witness to him murdering his entire family and loading them into his work truck for disposal (neighbors security camera).
Compelling to say the least.
>>350632>>350632>Almost like a lifetime movie you can observe this woman belittle her husband in Facebook live videos, watch him turn to cheating as she second guesses her marriage
oh fuck off with this shit. she did not 'belittle' him at all. men are shown to cheat most often when women are pregnant. he was a fatty that lost weight and realized he could now hit his thotty fit coworker and have a life as a 'hot fit couple' with no strings attached. he 'glowed up' and wanted the life with no debt, a hot new gf, etc. shannan didn't belittle shit and her saying "chris will do anything for me!!" wasn't the cause of his cheating and 'snapping' and murdering three people, two of which were his own children. fuck off. this guy was a psycho from the start that felt and feels nothing.
people like you are so susceptible to that PLUNDER bullshit, ugh
"B-b-but she TOLD him to turn off the lights. She didn't ASK him to turn off the lights!!!!" /s
Literally like all her Facebook
live video comment are filled to the brim with people crying that he suffered narcissistic abuse from Shannan. Anything to demonize the female victims of male crimes, nevermind the fact that he callously killed his two baby girls and shoved their bodies in oil tanks. When they were retrieved, their skin was detached/detaching from their bodies thanks to their poor wittle victim of Shannan's supposed narcissistic abuse of a "father". Sickens me the way she's attacked. She cried for weeks on end, begging him to communicate and show affection while he literally threw her relationship help books straight from delivery, while in the Amazon box, into the trash, all while she was pleading with him to help save their family. So sad
Let's assume she did "abuse" him, even though there's no proof of it. When your spouse is abusing you, you divorce them. What you don't do is murder them and your two young children. How could anyone think the cold-blooded murder of two little girls who had nothing to do with any of it is a reasonable response to any sort of abuse?
Sheriff: Jayme Closs Found Alive In Wisconsin, Suspect In Arrested>Thirteen-year-old Jayme Closs, who went missing almost three months ago from her Wisconsin home, was located alive Thursday evening, according to the Barron County Sheriff’s Office. Police say a suspect has been taken into custody in connection with the case.>A 911 call was made from Denise Closs’ cellphone at about 1 a.m. on Oct. 15, with garbled, inaudible audio. Police arrived four minutes later to find her and her husband dead. There was no sign of Jayme inside the home.>Investigators will discuss the case with the media Friday morning at 10 a.m. at the Barron County Sheriff’s office.https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/01/10/missing-wisconsin-teenager-jayme-closs-found-alive-suspect-in-custody/
Wow, I can't believe they found her alive
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Imagine your husband cheating on you and murdering you, your unborn child, and your two daughters for this dumpy thot. I would haunt the shit out him for the rest of his pathetic life
She also googled how much the mistress of Scott Peterson, the man who killed his wife and unborn child, made off her book deal
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Last night I went down the rabbit hole of reading documents regarding Chris Watts' arrest. There's almost 2000 pages so I was only skimming but they have copies of the letters people sent him in jail and hooooo boy. Almost all thirsty women, and they also put in the pictures that the women sent him kek. Pic related is one of the creepy non-thirsty letters he got.
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Not only that but she lied to the police about her relationship with Chris, deleted all her phone content with him, etc. She googled Shannan apparently many months (almost a year) prior to the events. She is a piece of shit but of course nothing compared to Chris and killing his wife and two innocent baby girls. How could he?? I never understand this shit..
These two were also fucking morons, if you look you can find their love letters they wrote each other over their company email.
I have a strange feeling this case is just going to get weirder once the girl starts talking.
She’s 13 and he’s 21, hmmm. Were they talking to each other on the internet? Was he just infatuated with her? So many questions.
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Letters start on page 721 if those are specifically what you're interested in
>>352968>property of the D.O.C.>>352878>the pen
Or they're just fellow felons looking for love or a cheap thrill.
I imagine most women writing to him are institutionalized or isolated in some fashion, lest women with even an iota of options would go for a real relationship.
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Ever since the Maëlys de Araujo case, a special unit called Cellule Ariane has been reopening hundreds upon hundreds of cold cases (murders, disappearances…) which took place in France. The chances of Nordahl Lelandais being a serial killer are high.
>In August 2017, an 8yo girl vanished from a wedding reception. A suspect was arrested, and everything lead to him (his car had recently been deep cleaned, etc) >yet a microscopic speck of Maëlys' blood was found in his car, and Lelandais had been searching for pedophile related content before.
The thing is that he had previously killed, but not the same type of person at all. He also killed Arthur Noyer, a grown man whose disappearance was still a mystery.
Lelandais kept giving info, then backtracking… but it has been fully proven he killed both.
What makes this case so interesting is that a lot of mysterious disappearances took place in the regions nearby in the recent years, which leads the authorities to think he might indeed be a serial killer (and behing most of these too).
But Lelandais never said anything UNLESS he was presented with direct evidence, otherwise he never spoke, so it will take years to determine wether or not he killed several other people.
Sorry if this was explained poorly, also there aren't a lot of resources in Englishhttps://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium.MAGAZINE-people-have-a-right-to-vanish-france-said-then-came-a-serial-killer-1.6410907https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ma%C3%ABlys_de_Araujo
I never said they were normal women lol. This one >>352968
is a convicted felon, hence the article I posted about her
Still it seems like whenever people bring up how convicts get all these letters written they act like the majority are written by famechasers, the naive, and otherwise seemingly normal people who don't have criminal backgrounds.
That's the tone I hear anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 90 percent were all from convicted and incarcerated people. I'd even suspect some of them are just men LARPing as women too.
For me it's the Toybox killer.>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Parker_Ray
Psychologically he was motivated by sadomasochistic pornography and enabled by actual members in law enforcement who acted as accomplices to secure his tortures and dispose of bodies. I think what makes a case all the more fucked up is how many fucked up people are in on it.
I automatically thought Toy Box Killer too.
Anything involving kids is automatically the real worst thing, but just reading about Daisy's Destruction gave me a mental break. I can't handle those cases so I don't learn about them and kind of block them out.
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Killers who were charming or seemed normal to everyone around them get me. The ones who carried on with life and had families or wives or girlfriends who swore they'd never do something like that. Ted Bundy and BTK in particular. It makes you think twice about everyone you know
Speaking of which, I'm excited for the Ted Bundy movie coming out soon. I hope it's good.
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Also, the case of John Allen Rubio and Angela Camacho who killed their 3 children because they thought they were possessed.
>Angela Camacho and 24-year-old John Allen Rubio, her common-law husband, were accused of strangling and decapitating her 2 daughters, 3-year-old Julissa Quezada and 2-month-old Mary Jane Rubio, in 2003. The couple allegedly washed themselves afterward and had sex before decapitating their 1-year-old son, John Esthefan Rubio.
>A relative called police, who found the girls stuffed in a trash bag and the boy on a bed. Rubio and Camacho told police they thought the children were possessed.
>John Allen Rubio said that, “she started talking in like, demonized — like, she was looking at me, like, weird,” he said. He claimed that Julissa was possessed by the spirit of his grandmother. Julissa began growling and screaming at him claiming that she was Grandma who had come back from limbo and stolen Julissa’s soul. He believed that all of the children were possessed by demons.
>“Julissa … my daughter … was telling me that she came from limbo. Julissa started to laugh in an evil way and started making growling sounds to me. The other two babies … started to talk and say things like three witches. They were talking to each other…”
>According to evidence during Rubio's trial, he had inhaled so much spray paint that he had damaged his brain and might have been psychotic.
>Rubio's mother forced him into prostitution when he was still a child. His mother was also a prostitute. John's clients were all adult men. John commented that while he did not always enjoy his work, it "beat flipping burgers."
>Both Rubio and Camacho had been born into abject poverty.
There's a really good couple of episodes about it on Sword and Scale, which I typically object to. Really a crazy and disturbing case all around
Did you know that the youtuber that made this video recently "disappeared"? I would love to explain everything in detail, but my english is not good enough to do it
If you go to his last video and sort the comments by "newest", you will find people talking about the whole thing. Basically he was allegedly being harassed by a family member and asked for help on youtube, then deleted the video where he told about his situation, and never gave life signals in any of his social media again. Like I said I can't really write all of the details, but you can look it up in the comments of his last video.
I have to be honest, with all the shitty fame hunger on youtube, I'm a little skeptical of everything. BUT if he really is in danger, I feel very bad for him, and makes me sad that I can't do much to help
It surprises me a little that no known youtuber took the opportunity to talk about this case.
I hope Horror Stories is okay.
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The last update on his Patreon in October.
Hasn't created a video in 5 months.
Tbh if I ran out of content but people still were giving me $200+ a month for doing nothing, I'd let them draw their own conclusions as long as they didn't start getting mad at me for collecting bank. Js.
Searching Google for his email address Horrorstoriesrm@yahoo.com pulls up https://www.twitter.com/ksgant
as the top result. Anyone know why?
The Marc Dutroux case.
Really fucked up case of police coverup, incompetence and the potential of a huge elite child trafficking ring.
>Police find two living underage girls in a hidden underground dungeon built by already convicted child molester Marc Dutroux
>Investigate Dutroux, find out he has multiple properties and bank accounts while apparently being on welfare
>Police search more of his other residences, find two bodies of two kidnapped girls and ANOTHER two bodies of kidnapped in ANOTHER residence of Dutroux's
>Had hundreds of thousands of francs deposited into one of his accounts right after the kidnapping of the girls
>Weird connection between Dutroux and mega rich businessman Michel Nihoul (Nihoul said he was confident he would never be charged, because what he knows would bring the government down.)
All very weird and all leading to something more than just a single person (Dutroux) doing everything right? Well it gets even more fucked up.
>20-28 of witnesses to the crimes ALL die under extremely suspicious circumstances and are ruled as suicides/not suspicious (ie. Burned alive, poisoned, shot in office from behind, shot in parking lot, killed in a car accident right before saying to someone they had something to say to the police)
>Most of the witnesses before their deaths said that they knew too much , were being threatened, had strangers threaten their lives if they didn't stop the investigation, had their phones bugged, individuals that said that their spouse was murdered to protect Dutroux and his child ring also subsequently committed "suicide"
>First judge on trial had to step down due to conflict of interest (attended a dinner for one of the victims families) but also said that the police told him that there were murder contracts on him
>Other witnesses are either old or have already died from old age
>Only one singular conviction against Dutroux, every other suspect freed from all charges
If this isn't a blatant coverup of an elite child trafficking ring, then I don't know what is. The maker of this documentary also died under suspicious circumstances, like what the fuck.
yeah I just realized i worded that horribly, horribly wrong.
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Damn anon I didn't even think of that and I've been watching it.
Fuck, it's just so fucking scary and terrifying reading about just HOW many kids "disappear" from foster care and are never found again. Are they being kidnapped to be tortured and sold? Being sold to rich families as dolls? Being sold for organs for disgusting old men?
Also I am also super paranoid about looking up any more information into this case or the Chateau des Amerois/Mother of Darkness Castle.
There are REAL elite people behind this, it's way beyond any pizzagate shit.
Some of the people that visit that mansion have fucking balls of steel man. The entire perimeter is COVERED in actual tripwire and there are cameras everywhere in the woods. Not to mention a woman from a couple disappeared there after investigating the place.
If I disappear I hope my family knows why lol
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Candace Elizabeth Newmaker (born Candace Tiara Elmore, November 19, 1989 – April 18, 2000) was a victim of child abuse, killed during a 70-minute attachment therapy session purported to treat reactive attachment disorder. The treatment used that day included a rebirthing script, during which Candace was suffocated.
Following the script for that day's treatment, Candace was wrapped in a flannel sheet and covered with pillows to simulate a womb or birth canal and was told to fight her way out of it, with the apparent expectation that the experience would help her "attach" to her adoptive mother. Four of the adults (weighing a combined total of 673 pounds) used their hands and feet to push on Candace's head, chest and 70-pound body to resist her attempts to free herself, while she complained, pleaded, and even screamed for help and air, unable to escape from the sheet. Candace stated eleven times during the session that she was dying, to which Ponder responded, "You want to die? OK, then die. Go ahead, die right now". Twenty minutes into the session, Candace had vomited and excreted inside of the sheet; she was nonetheless kept restrained within.
Forty minutes into the session, Jeane said to Candace "This baby doesn’t want to live. She’s a quitter." Candace faintly responded "no"; this would ultimately be her last word. To this, Ponder replied, "Quitter, quitter, quitter, quitter! Quit, quit, quit, quit. She's a quitter!" Jeane Newmaker, who said later she felt rejected by Candace's inability to be reborn, was asked by Watkins to leave the room, in order for Candace not to "pick up on (Jeane's) sorrow". Soon thereafter, Watkins requested the same of McDaniel and Brita St. Clair, leaving only herself and Ponder in the room with Candace. After talking for five minutes, the two unwrapped Candace and found that she was motionless, blue on the fingertips and lips, and not breathing. Upon seeing this, Watkins declared, "Oh there she is; she's sleeping in her vomit," whereupon the mother, who had been watching on a monitor in another room, rushed into the room, remarked on Candace's color, and began CPR while Watkins called 9-1-1. When paramedics arrived ten minutes later, McDaniel told them that Candace had been left alone for five minutes during a rebirthing session and was not breathing. The paramedics surmised that Candace had been unconscious and possibly not breathing for some time. Paramedics were able to restore the girl's pulse and she was flown by helicopter to a hospital in Denver; however, she was declared brain-dead the next day as a consequence of asphyxia.
The entire 70 minutes of the fatal session, as well as ten hours of other sessions from the preceding days, had been videotaped as a matter of course with Watkins's treatment. All the videos were shown at the trial of Watkins and Ponder.http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/candace.htm
Here’s the transcript of the therapy session. It’s pretty heavy, so be careful.