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No. 1990

Can / should homosexuality be cured?

No. 1991

For what possible purpose?

No. 1992

What damage does homosexuality do to you?

No. 1995

>>1990
I need to vent. I know this was thread was made by a troll, but I am bisexual with a preference for females. Well, it changes every year or so or depending on what is going on in my life. But I like women. Sex, love, romance, dating… anything. And truth is… I fucking hate it. I wanted to be normal. Not only because people still DO discriminate lesbians in real life, but also because I feel like that is not what I want for my life.
No, I don't think homosexuality can be cured, but I don't think it is normal either. It just seems unnatural somehow. When animals do it they do it because they have hormonal problems, and if they don't, they mate with the opposite sex when given a chance and completely forget the same gender. Animals that can mate die and don't leave their genes behind, how is that okay for nature? Some say homosexuality happens when we're overpopulated. I have no idea.

I also think many people who ARE gay wasn't born like that. They "learn" or are pushed to the behaviour, like Freud explained. I've had 3 gay friends tell me that if they hadn't been molested when growing up, they probably wouldn't be gay. I personally think I wasn't supposed to be bi either if certain things hadn't happened to me.

With that said, I think that if gays want to go through some kind of therapy to be "cured", they should be given the chance if that is what they really want. Being forced? No. But if you want to go through it, even though you know it may not work and how tough it is, why not?
We allow trans to chop off their penises and breasts, so why not allow people who willingly want to go through this proccess to finally have access to it? There is something wrong with this world.

Hopefully no one is going to get mad at me for being honest. I don't think people should hate on gays. I am not saying people should be forced to go through treatment. But I think the LGBT community should stop hiding behind the 'I was born this way, I can't help it' façade and really open up about things that still need to be said.

No. 1996

>>1995
I apologise for any mistakes, if I misspell anything etc, I'm really sleepy right now

No. 1997

>>1995
>like Freud explained
>taking Freud seriously
lol dropped

No. 1998

>>1997
Many things Freud brought to light are still taken very seriously in the field, just letting you know.

No. 1999

>>1995

>>Fathers and Sons


Homosexuality is a developmental problem that is almost always the result of problems in family relations, particularly between father and son. As a result of failure with father, the boy does not fully internalize male gender-identity, and develops homosexuality. This is the most commonly seen clinical model. - Joseph Nicolosi, Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality, 1991

>>Child Abuse and Lesbianism


There are special needs that little girls have that make them unique. When those needs are denied, ignored, or exploited, the future womanhood of that child is in jeopardy.

Just how are those needs denied, ignored, or exploited? Through abuse….Abuse can be overt, as in physical or sexual abuse, or it may be more subtle. Of course, its more subtle versions wouldn't legally qualify as child abuse, but they are forms of abuse nonetheless, and they have far-reaching consequences. One of those consequences is a distorted sexual identity. I have seen, time and again, clear connections between early abuse and confusion in sexuality. And I cannot ignore the histories of the many women I've known who have survived one form of abuse or another and are also attracted to other women. Although abuse by itself does not cause lesbianism, it can certainly be found in the background of may lesbian women and has in many cases been a contributing factor to their orientation. - Carol Ahrens in Desires in Conflict, 1991

https://www.fhu.com/articles/homosexual1.html

No. 2000

>>1997
Triggered you mean.

No. 2007

anyone else feel ok with gays but think trans people are mental?

No. 2008


No. 2037

>>2007
I'm fine with both in theory but they are ultimately pathologies and denying that seems really insincere. Trans people are crazier though because legit thinking you're the opposite sex is literally crazy and delusional

I don't think gays are "born this way" but its a product of how they were raised (in the case of gay men, its usually an overbearing mother)

I support gay people but I'm more weary of supporting trans because it feels like enabling to me. Like I wouldnt want to encourage an anorexic to get liposuction and I also don't think trans peoples only option is life altering surgery and hormone therapy. Trans people need a lot of talk therapy, and I know that might not be possible at this point but the route the trans lobby is pushing is a dangerous route. These people seriously need to spend a lot of time revising their childhoods to figure out why they feel like they're somehow the opposite sex

tldr; both are pathologies and neither gays or trans are "born this way".

Also another thing I find interesting is the LGBT community for the most part is opposed to gay conversion therapy (and i agree its terrible if its forced) and claim it doesn't work but at the same time these people think things like genderfluid exist and they think gender is fluid and can change one day to the next but something like sexuality is fixed? It doesn't make any sense lol

I know many cool gays, not so many cool trans (most of them are borderline intolerable because they are obsessed with themselves and can't maintain conversation)

No. 2038

All the "trans lesbians" are just straight boys who weren't quite fucked up enough by their parents but were still highly emasculated but ultimately they're straight men and the idea that there's people claiming to be "trans lesbians" without experiencing gender dysphoria (the most important part of being trans) just need therapy

Either that or they're acting out a fetish

But trans lesbians is the most hilarious concept ever.

No. 2039

>>1990
Could it? In some cases, if we put enough effort into researching how to do so, probably, you can change all sorts of crap about a person.

However, the issue of it not being an illness or disorder comes to mind. There is no pathology to it, it simply doesn't meet the criteria of a mental illness, there's no inherent distress or lowered global functioning in it as there is in something like Gender dysphoria (being trans isn't necessarily a mental illness, the dysphoria itself is what they're trying to treat).

Homosexuality does cause distress in some cases, don't get me wrong, but it seems to be societal in nature, rather than inherent. A person with gender dysphoria won't recover from their dysphoria if they're told it's acceptable, it'll just reduce it. Same as a person with MDD won't become completely happy in a supportive environment where people are trying to help them, they'll usually be better than the alternative, but not completely cured, whereas someone who's just sad probably would be.


As for trans people, because I know it's been mentioned in the thread, transitioning simply is the best form of treatment we have at the moment for severe cases. Nothing more to say about that, there has been at least one large scale study done that demonstrates this improved state of mind.

No. 2040

>>2039
Is transitioning the best form of treatment for children who experience "gender dysphoria"?

A lot of the people who are transitioning could easily benefit from extensive psychotherapy, not transitioning. Especially the ones who aren't overly dysphoric (which is increasingly common). Hormones and surgery should be restricted to ages 18+ and even then only the more extreme cases. The trans community seem to want to make it EASIER for people to get access to hormones but I think we need tougher gatekeepers and that it's way too easy right now.

Homosexuality is not a mental illness and doesn't need to be treated as one but it certainly seems to come about as a product of familial pathology. So it's fair to say that there'd be a high percentage of homosexuals who are pathological due to their family environment and not necessarily because of homophobia in society (which is relatively rare these days, let's be honest).

The high suicide rate amongst trans people is evidence that transitioning is not always the best option. Activists like to blame the suicide rate entirely culture (so they can radically try and "fix" society) but I don't think that's entirely true. I think anyone who suffers gender dysphoria is inherently narcissistic and that factors in a lot (when they realise they can't actually match the ideal self they had envisioned in their head and cannot come to terms that society generally don't see trans people as anything but trans….. even though people pretend otherwise to be "nice" but nobody naturally thinks this)

No. 2042

>>2040
>Is transitioning the best form of treatment for children who experience "gender dysphoria"?

I think that it's almost entirely case by case, but no, I wouldn't agree that it's a smart idea to make a permanent choice like that when kids minds will change so much so unpredictably and they simply aren't mature enough to be able to understand the decision.

>A lot of the people who are transitioning could easily benefit from extensive psychotherapy, not transitioning.


I mean, you do have to go through some treatment before you can even qualify to apply for hormone therapy, let alone surgical options as far as I understand it. Generally I'd agree with you though, if someone is so severe they can't survive safely in the community they shouldn't be in the community, not rushed to potentially inappropriate treatments.

>Especially the ones who aren't overly dysphoric (which is increasingly common). Hormones and surgery should be restricted to ages 18+ and even then only the more extreme cases. The trans community seem to want to make it EASIER for people to get access to hormones but I think we need tougher gatekeepers and that it's way too easy right now.


Hormones I don't necessarily agree with, there are some options that don't really have serious long term effects from my understanding, and they are useful to start young if a case does end up needing to transition, as it relates to better post op results. That being said, I don't think the class of medication I'm talking about is a hormone, so I agree with you, that should be something restricted to at least age 16 (16 is medically independent in my country, sign their own documents, all that sort of stuff, could be different overseas). Surgery should be 18+, and more for a last resort option than anything else, which is the prevailing medical attitude anyway.

>Homosexuality is not a mental illness and doesn't need to be treated as one but it certainly seems to come about as a product of familial pathology. So it's fair to say that there'd be a high percentage of homosexuals who are pathological due to their family environment and not necessarily because of homophobia in society (which is relatively rare these days, let's be honest).


Just so I get this correct, you're saying that the actual distressing parts of homosexuality are societal more than anything? If so, once again, I agree, and there's options to learn to cope with that stuff via therapy as well.

>The high suicide rate amongst trans people is evidence that transitioning is not always the best option


There is some evidence to suggest that the suicide rate does decrease when they do transition, as well as global functioning increasing, though from what I know we don't really have very good data on what the pre-op rates of suicide are, and post-op isn't exactly much better. Swedish study tends to focus on their actual reaction to the transition, satisfaction with it and general state of dysphoria.

There's a point to be raised that there still being an increased suicide rate compared to general population doesn't mean it isn't working. We see the same in people with Bipolar or Schizophrenia even after they're successfully treated with medication, it's just that they tend to have some other issues, whether societal or whatever.

Regret rates can be related to how well we can make them pass as the opposite sex as well, which isn't always great without ridiculous amounts of plastic surgery, which is prohibitively expensive.



And sure, there's an element of narcissism you can argue in almost any mental disorder. In anxiety for thinking that people give a shit about you, when in reality people couldn't care less, in the way depression makes people think other people intensely dislike them, even though once again odds are they don't have any strong feelings, you can name almost any disorder and it has elements of narcissism, because elements of narcissism are simply part of what makes us human.

In general, I don't think it's worth judging trans people. Whether you like them or not, they are mentally ill, and shitting on the mentally ill is always a terrible thing. Even if they're absolutely 100% wrong and unjustified in their beliefs, you shouldn't shit on them for it any more than you'd shit on a schizophrenic for the nature of delusions. It doesn't help anyone, and it just hurts the group being targeted.

You can not agree with what they're saying without needing to claim they're all fetishist freaks who are ruining being a woman and should feel bad for it. There's a big gap between not pandering to someones beliefs and being cruel to them.

It's even sillier when you consider that doctors with huge amounts of experience simply don't understand enough about the human condition to say conclusively either way, so it's unlikely that some randoms on the internet who heard of a few studies supporting it and then skimmed one or two are going to have it all figured out.

No. 2045

Anons… We already have a "serious" tranny tread in /ot/ and this one is kinda turning into one too, but it's in /sty/ sooo serious discussions probably shouldn't be made here.

I fucking despise trannies. they're fucking disgusting and abominations. ALWAYS. I worked in a clinic where people dealt with them all the time and i know what I'm talking about. Ugly charicatures of women. Half assed mock versions and trust me, none of the trannies I've seen IRL comes even close of really passing lol. Even the "passable" ones. People just didn't want to offend them.

They're super entitled and obnoxious and the world was better with less of them in the past. I miss the times when people would just call them transexuals – most didn't try to force the idea they WERE really female.
Ftm are waaaay less obnoxious but that doesn't make them less disgusting.

They turn themselves into walking freak shows and then expect people to share their delusions. K.

About homos:
Most of the time only loud gays who like showing off are annoying.

No. 2048

>>2045
Sigh I just wish I would stop falling for women/feeling sexually attracted to them. I am not gay, I'm bisexual, but i wanna be completely straight..Why do I need to go through this. I feel like this is wrong, this is not me. And i can't have access to gay therapy and ask a psychiatrist to try to help me with that but a man can chop off his penis and pretend he's a woman and everything is fine?? WTF.. I will never absolutely accept my sexually and it's driven me close to suicide.

No. 2049

>>2048
If you mean gay therapy as in conversion therapy, you basically answered your own question. If you mean it as in therapy whose goal is to make you more comfortable with your actual sexuality, then that is pretty stupid/unfair, but I'm pretty sure that is a thing?
Either way, you got a bad case of self hate, over something you don't really have control over, my girl. You need to fix that, but acting straight probably isn't the solution. I say probably, because who knows, maybe you'll be that one out of I don't even know how many people, that it actually works on!

No. 2050

>>2049
I've received professional help (to try to accept my sexuality) for almost 2 years but it didn't work.
Now I'm thinking if I should go the opposite way and try to repress it somehow, get gay conversion therapy or similar. Like i said, I'm not entirely lesbian, I like men the most, but if i had to explain my sexuality I'd say it's 60/40, so the gay is pretty strong, you know?

People always say GCT doesn't work but I really don't know what to do. I feel like lesbianism isn't/shouldn't be part of who I am. I was raised in a religious household and unfortunately I feel like I'm disgusting for being with women

No. 2051

>>2050
Then just don't date women? You're bisexual, you like both. Seek out relationships with men if you want to be straight so badly.

No. 2052

>>2051
I have done both. I said it before in previous posts. The thing is that I WISH I wasn't like this.



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