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No. 181871
>>181869Well that and the fact there have been proven autogynephiles waltzing in, shrieking they're trans so they definitely have a right to be there when someone gets (rightly) creeped out and reports them, then later it comes out that they actually were sickos doesn't help their case. That happened with the guy who went and just stood in a woman's locker room at planet fitness. When reported, he insisted he was trans (despite not appearing as such, he was dressed as a man) and the woman was kicked out and had her membership revoked. Later it came out that according to the man's Facebook, he got off to being dressed as a woman and the story blew up.
>>181867But for some reason this negates the overwhelming majority of men perpetuating sex crimes?
No. 181873
>>181871No, it doesn't negate anything. It's just kind of ludicrous to pretend women don't commit sex crimes, or crimes in general. It's the same type of backward logic that leads people to think women don't/can't rape or abuse tbh.
People are generally shitty and abusive, so considering most public places - especially semi-secluded ones like bathrooms - "safe" will fuck you over at some point in life. Just a tip.
No. 181875
>>181874You got this
triggered by me pointing out that it's retarded to consider a public bathroom a safe space, but I'm the one who's autistic? Okay, lol.
>Transgenders are mentally illLet's try banning everyone with a mental illness from public bathrooms and see how well that goes over.
No. 181878
>>181867
>It's not as rare as you think just because it's not reported as often.Lol trying to dismantle science and statistics for your fee-fees.
Yes, you can technically be creeped on my other women, but the crime reports show it's extremely rare. Even with under reporting.
Anyways, the whole thing was stupid in the first place. You either passed well enough that you could enter the restroom of your pretend gender and no one was the wiser, or you obviously didn't pass and people didn't need to see you go into the men's room to know you're just a man in drag. There was no need to change the way it was done since sex change operations became a thing, it was just autogynephilies pushing their way into women's spaces.
No. 181879
>>181878>it's extremely rare. Even with under reporting.[citation needed]
Your entire post consists of fee-fees. The reason it was ever a "thing" was because trans people who went into the mens' bathrooms were often attacked or sexually harassed.
No. 181887
>>181880Then don't allow people who obviously aren't even trying and are just screeching "I'M TRANS" even though they're clearly creeps? It's not like it's impossible to tell the difference.
The guys you're talking about are the ones who either don't even try to look feminine, or dress very stereotypically feminine but don't actually bother to alter their actual appearance like their face/body hair because they don't actually want to be women, they just like cosplaying as women because it gives them a boner.
No. 181897
>>181873There's no point in basically opening the door for even more creeps to perpetuate sex crimes by letting anyone who whines "I'm trans!" To use the women's room. Fine, we can take the whole safe space partout of the equation because obviously we've established a public restroom is not safe , but it can at least be made somewhat safer by taking the majority of those who perpetuate sex crimes out of the space they would perpetuate it in.
True trans people (less than 1% of the goddamn population) do not need to be catered to on such a massive scale. That is absolutely ridiculous. If they pass well enough that they can go into the women's room, then congratulations to them, they've put in the effort. The trannies who do what amounts to putting on a Walmart muumuu, some wet n wild purple lipstick and walk around with a dangerhair fro and 2 day old 5 o clock shadow, I'm not going to pretend to play along with you delusion if you can't be assed to put in as much effort into being a woman as most women do.
No. 181901
>>181899This exact situation literally happened in a odor. It was posted about upthread.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/07/living/feat-planet-fitness-transgender-member/That said, pfit is known for having ridiculous policies thanks to being "judgment free" such as banning a pregnant woman because her clothes were too tight.
No. 181903
>>181901I feel like you might not have read the article?
>Presumably MtF individual is using the women's locker room, presumably appropriately, since no one mentions anything she's done inappropriate other than being masculine looking in a women's restroom (IE they aren't standing in a corner staring at people or screaming at random people about their gender identity)>Presumably cis woman feels uncomfortable, asks the staff for assistance.>The staff give her the assistance they can.>She responds by standing outside and yelling to patrons about "they're letting men in!!" which honestly would make me super uncomfortable if I saw her doing that.>In response to her harassing other members in this way, they revoke her membership.This all seems pretty fair. They didn't revoke her membership for questioning, they revoked her membership for being an nuisance and harassing customers.
No. 181905
>>181904Either way, she wasn't punished for reporting bad behavior. I'm sure that if she had told them "This person is making me uncomfortable because of these reasons" rather than just screaming "man in the locker rooms!" at the top of her lungs they would have done something about it. From what this article reports, it sounds like she didn't have any reasons to be uncomfortable other than that they appear to be male.
Also, I forgot to mention in my last post but this is pretty unrelated since this took place at a gym and the federal guidelines that trump overwrote were pertaining specifically to schools. So like, this story has nothing to do with trump or the federal guidelines he overwrote.
No. 181910
>>181907Let's assume for a second that this is 100% true, even though it's not really a reliable source.
Even if this is all true, I still don't see how it's relevant unless they were doing these things in the locker room itself? I don't think that facebook posts should be relevant to a person's right to go somewhere unless those posts showed an intention to do wrong AKA if they'd posted "I'm going to go to pfit and rape some children" or something. Which I haven't seen any evidence of yet.
Like, sure those posts are gross. Sure, if this is true, it sounds like the kind of person I'd like to avoid in my personal life. Maybe they even deserve a thread here. But, it's not related to the issue at hand.
Would anyone think to kick me out because I'm involved in my local kink community? It would be ridiculous! Because no one is looking for excuses to kick me out because I'm cis.
No. 181911
>>181910Even if they aren't an autogynephile (which they appear to be), you think it's ok for a cross dresser to be in the women's room? Really? Not even a genuine transgender woman, just a dude who feels like cross dressing? It's ok to make women feel uncomfortable just to get off, just because "he's not hurting anyone"?
This is why I'm glad these laws are being revoked. I'm sorry it's hurting the real trans people who are just trying to live their lives, but at least the sick faggots can't cum their thrift skirts just walking into a Target bathroom.
No. 181912
>>181911>but at least the sick faggots can't cum their thrift skirts just walking into a Target bathroom.literally who cares as long as they keep it to themselves?
I think the only people who are really worried are bored middle aged women who get off to the idea of being assaulted in bathrooms by tall dark and handsome strangers because their husbands don't satisfy them and they read too many romance novels. Honestly most of the stories I've seen of anyone actually doing anything pervy have been cis women trying to catch a peek at people's genitals to "make sure" and bullshit like this woman standing outside the pfit hollering her tits off about men in the locker rooms.
No. 181914
>>181912I know it's easy to think of as a victimless crime - yeah us gosh darn WHINY women might be grossed out, but we aren't getting raped at least! Well, aside from us ladies being entitled to not having a dude creaming himself in the public women's bathroom - a problem we don't typically have before this trans stuff got super global - it's not a victimless crime. Trans people stuffer the most from it. Why? Because the general populace, who are already a bit leery of these trans folk, lump them in with the dudes who get off to pretend to be women, and suddenly it's just one big problem to stomp out instead of two separate problems to deal with. Trans people deserve a better solution than being lumped in with sickos who don't know how to keep their kinks in the bedroom.
Also, because most people just don't want to be exposed (and in some cases, have their kids exposed) to a dude dressed as a lady coming himself in the Target bathroom. Honestly it just feels like you're playing the devil's advocate here. There's plenty of not-middle-aged girls on this board not wanting dudes in the public bathroom. I'm sure there's plenty of middle-aged women doing that shit too, but turns out young adults are grossed out by ugly creeps masturbating too. Who knew.
No. 181916
>>1819141. if they're openly masturbating, that's grounds to kick anyone out, regardless of gender.
2. If these bathroom policies are so bad for trans people, why are trans people pushing for them so hard?
3. guys are going to cream themselves looking at you in public no matter what. And have wet dreams about you. And masturbate to pictures of you. There's really not much difference here.
No. 181919
>>181918I'm not saying to "tell them." I'm asking why autogynephiles have to go out and flaunt their kink to get off instead of just doing it at home.
>>1819161. That's cool, but by the time you see someone jerking off to being in a dress, you're having a bad day.
2. Beats me fam. I don't know why trannies want half the shit they do.
3. I'm not bitching about dudes jerking it to me or whoever else in the privacy of their own home. I'm perturbed about them dressing up (which is their fetish, what gets them off, that's the definition of autogynephilia) and going into a small, enclosed space full of specifically women specifically to perpetuate this fantasy of theirs and shriek that they're trans when anyone gets uncomfortable when they actually
aren't trans. No. 181920
>>181919>I'm not saying to "tell them."Then I'm confused.
Trump overwrote a federal decision that transgender students should be allowed to use whichever bathroom best fits their gender identity.
You seem to have been arguing that this is a good thing.
Hence you seem to be advocating for restricting bathroom use of transgender people to the bathroom aligning with their assigned at birth gender.
That's telling them to use the wrong bathroom.
Is this really not what you're saying? And in which case, what are you saying?
No. 181922
>>181920We're talking about two different things, here. In terms of autogynephiles - who are not transgender - I was asking why they find the need to dress up in public to get off.
That is completely different from revoking the bathroom guidelines. Which, I have mixed feelings about. I am sorry that true transgender people suffer from these laws being revoked. I am not sorry that sickos such as autogynephiles (who, again, are NOT trans) don't get to perv out. I could say more on the subject about trans themselves but it's not relevant to your comment.
If you're still confused, I'm not sure how to make this much more clear.
No. 181929
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>>181875>it's retarded to consider a public bathroom a safe spaceYeah dude, like, who the fuck would except any public "safe space" lmao! Like, there are actual people who think it's reasonable for nobody to carry cameras to changing rooms, swimming pools and saunas! What a bunch of retards amirite
No. 181946
>>181884Most people is that most trans wouldn't want to use that 3rd bathroom as they would consider it a kind of discrimination against them since "I'm a real woman too!! I should be allowed in the women's bathroom, I don't want that one, I'm a woman!!!1"
I'm not saying I agree, i don't, but that's the logic of many. So even if you give them the 3rd option, you'll get tons of complaints.
No. 181947
>>181946The problem is that most* trans people..
Fuck, I can't type today. My bad.
No. 181955
>>181953Does this happen?
>>181952Yeah but I seriously doubt most MtFs pass
No. 181956
>>181953Why would a guy rape a trans woman just because they're trans???? Wtf? Normal people don't even get raped regularly by strangers. They're far more likely to get beaten up, sure, but raped?
Let's be real. The transwomen who pass are gonna keep using the women's room, because they know they can. The ones who don't shouldn't anyway.
No. 181971
>>181953>>If you send trans women (especially passing ones) to the men's room they'll probably get raped and beaten or w/e bc people are awful… >>how about we just let people piss and shit in whatever bathrooms they want and mind our own businessesWhat about no? by your logic we should just allow anyone in the bathrooms they want, right?
But if you send men to the women's room those women have higher chances of getting attacked by creeps. Or "beaten or w/e bc people are awful…"
You're a tard
No. 181975
>>181944thisx10000
I used to be hugely into trans rights and defended them every chance I got but during the last year when all this trans drama/trend culminated I kind of realized how selfish and sick they are. MtFs are constantly glorified over cis women and this whole bathroom drama is just about autogynephiles being pissed that they can't peek at women.
No. 181976
>>181973Are you the same person who sperged out upthread over the singular point I made about public bathrooms not actually being "safe spaces"?
It's not a strawman, I pointed out something small and for whatever reason that makes you shit yourself in rage.
No. 181977
>>181976You mean did I post this?
>>181929 Yeah?
>It's not a strawmanThat exactly what it is, dumbshit.
>ur mad!This better be a troll.
No. 181978
>>181977No, I meant the other anon who replied.
It's not a strawman because I didn't say it in relation to anything with trans people (ie the subject at hand), I literally just pointed out public bathrooms aren't an "uguu safe space".
You literally are mad, it's kind of pathetic.
No. 181980
>>181978>No, I meant the other anon who replied.Then I guess a lot of people here disagree with you.
>It's not a strawman >because I didn't say it in relation to anything with trans people lol do you even fucking know what a strawman is? Please please please just tell me you're pretending to be retarded to make trannies look bad or something.
I'm gonna try to explain everything as nicely as I can: I call public bathroom safe spaces because there are rules and regulations made to protect the safety and privacy of people that don't otherwise exist under normal public spaces. These rules are what differentiates public spaces and safe spaces. You went on to ramble about how I believe the ridiculous notion that 100% of humanity is made of perfect law-abiding citizens. You basically changed my entire argument so you can call me retarded. That's a strawman.
>You got this triggered by me >that makes you shit yourself in rage>You literally are mad, it's kind of pathetic.This is when you know someone has zero argument. I hope you realize the only person you're making to look pathetic here is yourself.
No. 181981
>>181980>Then I guess a lot of people here disagree with you.An amazing two people who sound the same. Wow.
> I call public bathroom safe spaces because there are rules and regulations made to protect the safety and privacy of people that don't otherwise exist under normal public spaces.Kek, and how are those enforced? Pro-tip: They're not, and people take advantage of this all the time.
>You went on to ramble about how I believe the ridiculous notion that 100% of humanity is made of perfect law-abiding citizens.Two lines is rambling to you? How low is your attention span?
>You basically changed my entire argument so you can call me retarded.I didn't have to change anything, though. You are retarded.
>This is when you know someone has zero argument. I hope you realize the only person you're making to look pathetic here is yourself.Whatever helps you sleep at night.
No. 181984
>>181983I said you sound the same, not that you're the same person.
Posting MS Paint comics surely makes you look like an intellectual, though. :^)
No. 181986
Trump's a nutcase, hasn't he got trade deals with Russia to worry about before he starts policing where people piss?
>>181981>how are those enforced? Pro-tip: They're not, and people take advantage of this all the time. Diff anon but I don't really know what you're trying to even say here. It's fine if you're allergic to such complex words as 'safe spaces', but in western culture a bathroom DOES have social rules which people can self-police within reason and also you can legally charge someone for breaking laws inside of a bathroom.
Yes, you are a bright cookie for pointing out that people do take advantage of discrepancies it all the time, but that doesn't discount that peeping on people pooping in a restroom can get you kicked out by the users, and then legally charged. The social norm is that a bathroom is very unlike a public street, is is instead a place of moderate expected privacy.
No. 181997
>>181987Point to where in the text that I did that
I think you're confusing anons for a hivemind
No. 182001
>>181998Wow anon, that was my second post in this thread
Maybe you should get some help for that paranoia before you try to have any kind of adult discussion
No. 182021
>>181946Yeah I know that would be the response but that's the only way at protecting everyone in the situation. Women and children who use women's only bathrooms are protected and trans people are protected as they don't need to walk into a bathroom where visually they don't fit in (and risk being picked on, kicked out w.e).
If trans people were discrete and slipped into the unmarked bathroom, nobody would care or even notice. It's the fact that a bunch of men feel entitled to women's only spaces that this is a problem. It's like they don't think they can "pass" unless they're validated by other women on a regular basis, that's not our job.
I've also never head of F2M trans people kicking up about this, only M2Fs because no matter how hard they try to pass, they're still so full of testosterone so they're horribly aggressive and entitled (just like men).
No. 182024
>>181953You have a really low opinion of men. Men don't actually have the constant urge to rape women and even if they did, trans women are biologically male so by your logic, any m2f in a women's bathroom would have the urge to rape everyone who shares their bathroom.
Idiot.
No. 182098
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>>182091Nice try tranny but you don't speak for everyone ever, some people aren't comfortable with trannies using the wrong toilet understandably my advice would be to create a tranny toilet for only trannies and whoever just wants an alternative of course this would be a huge fucking waste of money embarrassingly as opposed to handicapped toilets which actually have a utility but there seems to be no other way to shut libtards up other than pandering to their money wasting utility-less bullshit.
No. 182110
>>182105>>182108It's not the same poster, at least that's what I think. First, I dislike trannies as a whole and I'm not the only posting lol (I've only posted twice so far in this thread). I can admit I dislike them though.
Second, that trans thread seemed to have a shit ton of anons. I think the standard lolcow anon is either against trannies or indifferent, but I'm absolutely sure most don't like them or the idea of allowing them into women's bathrooms, even if the reason is a remote – yet real –possibility of finding more creeps there
No. 182113
>>181863tbqh I wish Trump would send ''transgender'' ''''''''''''women''''''''''' into gas chambers.
I can't stand these pussy low testosterone mentally ill men.
A healthy society purges these degenerates instead of giving them special treatment.
I can't be alone who thinks like this.
What's wrong with everyone?
No. 182146
>>182141I can only imagine how many trannies would get
triggered when they're forced to realize they don't have actual vaginas.
It's great.
No. 182157
>>182147I agree with the other anon.
If someone is female passing then laws have literally made no difference as they've been using the female bathrooms for years undetected.
Publicity about trans bathroom issues has actually made it harder for cis women who look masculine to use the women's bathroom in peace without some crazed nut thinking they're a man in disguise. Does that sound like feminism to you? Stopping females using the correct bathroom for not appearing conventionally feminine for a genital check?
http://www.advocate.com/business/2015/06/17/detroit-woman-kicked-out-restaurant-bathroom-looking-man-sueshttps://thinkprogress.org/texas-woman-harassed-for-using-the-womens-restroom-18d97035f0b2#.3l54etcg1 No. 182164
>>182157The passing ones are alright, I will admit that. As long as they stay in their fucking lane and don't expect women to make them comfortable or at home in any way whatsoever.
The (increasingly rare) passing ones are also probably not bitching about not being able to pee with actual women and are probably less likely to actually attack anyone so I don't get why they're relevant.
They're like one percent of a one percent population.
No. 182182
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What the actual fuck is going on with lolcow and tranny apologists lately? Not only do they label anyone who's against them "samefags" they also pretend the consensus here has always somehow been pro-tranies until very recently, which is demonstrably false. Just look at the older tranny threads further down the catalog.
No. 182204
>>182202That can literally happen to you right now. A man can walk in and rape you. They don't have to be trans. Being trans has nothing to do with bathroom safety. And being assaulted in a bathroom, the persons biological sex is irrelevant because they have committed a crime already. Of all the shit you have to worry about, a man pretending to be a woman does not hurt or effect you af all. Like how do you even go outside without being constantly
triggered by different genders in public spaces.
No. 182205
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>>182099Kek Idk how you got hurt feelings over spilt tranny out of my post but you're delusional if you think i'd ever get upset over a fucking disgusting tranny, I have no feelings for them other than disgust.
>>182117Come now, the libtards will never stop complaining so you have to give them something as degrading as they are to their own self proclaimed sex I can't see any other way to quell the tranny libtard flames.
>>182182Ikr pham this tranny defender shit is spooping me too.
>>182194Trumps going to make U.S great again be thankful he's against TPP that shits going to fuck my countries economy and housing market to next century.
No. 182210
>>182185THIS. Seriously wtf and why is this website getting infected with /pol/ tier posts?
We've only ever had a problem with disgusting, creepy, non-passing trannies like Chris Chan and Brolita Jenny. And really bad cosplayers with piss poor crossplay makeup and fakebois.
No. 182213
>>182206This. Already a woman has been assaulted by a big hulking trans'woman' who punched her in the mouth for saying he was male and shouldn't be in the woman's bathroom. Already we have had a woman who reported a trans'woman' to the staff at a gym because a male was in the women's locker room and she is the one who got kicked out/banned.
Before, you could report these people and they would be the one in trouble, or you could confront them and they'd know they were doing something wrong and leave. Now they feel entitled and emboldened since they can claim to have a ladybrain and apparently that should make everything okay?
That's the issue, at its barest bones. You cannot tell the """real""" trans from the ones who want to sneak in with new legal protections to harass, assault, rape, etc women. With legal protections, nothing can be done until AFTER THE CRIME (because it's literal violence apparently to misgender), whereas before, you could report them for clearly being male in a women's bathroom, or stop them from entering in the first place.
Not really sorry if this hurts some trans peoples feelings, but women's safety > trans feelings. Women fought to get separate bathrooms, and now with gender identity bullshit trans people threaten to take them away, instead of fighting for their own family/unisex/what have you bathrooms. Or, better yet, make men's bathrooms safer so they don't have to go to women's bathrooms. Because that's their issue, right? Transwomen (and let's be real, transmen) are afraid to use
men's bathrooms, so the solution is to let… men into women's bathroom? No.
No. 182214
>>182213>Already a woman has been assaulted by a big hulking trans'woman' who punched her in the mouth for saying he was male and shouldn't be in the woman's bathroom.…Yeah because women totally aren't assaulting each other for shitting on each other's looks on a daily basis, hm. There's no way you're that naive.
"Confronting" people in bathrooms and making big situations out of what would otherwise be a slightly awkward part of your day is the actual problem there. Like it was said before, you don't know if who you're confronting and accusing is a MtF tranny, or is actually just a very masculine looking woman.
No. 182215
>>182214Nice deflection. I bring up a legitimate case of a transgender male in a woman's bathroom who assaulted a woman (a crime which you lot love to say "has never happened any where ever!" or "not real trans!!") for
daring to
violently misgender him, and you respond by first trying to redirect to women on women crimes in bathrooms (hint, a trans male assaulting a woman isn't a female on female crime) and then second by blaming the woman who was assaulted and implying it's okay to break someone's teeth for being misgendered. That really the argument you want to make, pal?
Let's try that again. The actual problem here is that using gender identity (a completely unmeasurable unprovable abstract concept) over biological sex (a biological fact that is observable in over 99% of cases barring intersex disorders which, to emphasize, are disorders, not new genders) allows men into women's bathroom with NO recourse for the women who are afraid
until they end up assaulted or raped or harassed, etc. It's an injustice that transgender male's feelings are more important than the women who are afraid or who
have been attacked by men, trans or not, in the bathroom.
Again, the solution is for transgender people to organize for third options, like family restrooms, or to make men's bathrooms safer. Not invade women's bathrooms.
No. 182216
>>182215>I bring up a legitimate case of a transgender male in a woman's bathroom who assaulted a womanI've twice brought up news article confrontations of genital gestapos getting into fights with "men going into women's bathrooms" only for it to be revealed they were actually biological women with heavy handed masculine features.
If some aggressive fucking asshole followed me into a bathroom and started to scream at me to get out because they thought I was a man I might just feel threatened enough to give em a punch.
The fact remains that a passing MtF tran will never appear on your radar, meanwhile you're suspecting any masculine looking biological woman because obvs men always look like conventional men and women always look like conventional women. You're a social disease and need to stop meddling.
No. 182217
>>182185>>182210What is even your endgame? It takes literally 2 seconds to ctrl-f "trans" in the catalog and open up the past trannie threads and verify you're full of shit.
You must either be a desperate tranny or just a bored troll.
No. 182219
>>182216>The fact remains that a passing MtF tran will never appear on your radarThen why the need to change laws to cover gender identity instead of biological sex? You just said passing MTF are never in any danger of being clocked in a bathroom, so clearly, everything was working just fine, right? Or maybe, it's to cover the one's who don't pass, you know, the one's who
look like men? So how are women supposed to know the real trans from the actual men entering their restrooms?
No. 182220
>>182217Because you're wrong you douchebag!
>CTRL + F Trans>"I don't like the way this website handles trans issues">"Crazy trans lesbians">"Don't you hate trans people who base their lifestyle off yaoi they read in high school?">"What do you guys think of transgender shit? I don't have any personal beef but don't agree with surgery.">thread about trans attention whore>genderchat thread>trans lolcow>tumblrina threadOh wow, such opposition against trannies /s
No. 182224
>>182219>Then why the need to change laws to cover gender identity instead of biological sex? Because of discrimination from schools and employers who otherwise do have access to your information that lists your biological sex despite what you pass as. And it's because of nonsensical shit and flat out sensationalist lies ie. "Trans people will result in more sexual assaults in bathrooms!!!!!" that politicians get involved and lobby around anti trans shit for votes.
So, are you saying women who look like men can't go to the women's bathroom.
>>182221I'm not a tranny you rancid cumwad.
And you're right, I don't usually go to those once-every-few-months threads because they're not really relevant to me. But this political bullshit fighting over who gets what bathroom is fucking stupid and takes from actual issues.
No. 182225
>>182223It's not that they're "pro trans" retard, it's that clearly they're targeting lolcows, cringey tumblrinas, attention whores, and shit we would otherwise be posting with the special note that they're also ~*~trans~*~
Those don't encompass all trannies.
No. 182226
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>>182224So why were you so quick to harp on about how I'm wrong, even though you hadn't the slightest clue about the general consensus of lolcow?
No. 182227
>>182224>Because of discrimination from schools and employers who otherwise do have access to your information that lists your biological sex despite what you pass as. Instead of passing nondiscrimination laws, you suggest fundamentally altering all laws that protect women ie females?
>And it's because of nonsensical shit and flat out sensationalist lies ie. "Trans people will result in more sexual assaults in bathrooms!!!!!" that politicians get involved and lobby around anti trans shit for votes. Except it's true? Trans males have attacked women in bathrooms, and men have attacked women in bathrooms. You don't see the connection between allowing MORE MEN into women's bathrooms with MORE MEN attacking women in bathrooms? Seriously? Are you thick?
>So, are you saying women who look like men can't go to the women's bathroom.I'm saying biological females are who are allowed into women's bathrooms. Full stop. Before all this bullshit, your butchiest bulldyke could walk into a women's bathroom far less impeded than now (sometimes questioned, yes, but never to the extent that is happening now). Why? Because men weren't trying to pass fucking laws to let males into women's bathrooms. Women knew women were the ones entering women's bathrooms, and if a man was trying to, they could report them because it was
illegal.
Now women are aware that men are being given the right to enter the bathroom under dubious gender identity protections, and are on guard. Is that a masculine woman or a man? Women are worried. Yeah, women attacked women, but hey, fun fact, you know who statistically attacks more women? Men. Males. And yes, your precious transwomen are still
male. You know what non-passing ones look like? Men.
No. 182229
>>182228>If "people notice and security is called" then I would fucking hope they'd notice you being assaulted by ANYONE so this is not relevant. You don't need to be protected from a trans person. You need protection from someone assaulting you.then why don't transwomen just use men's restrooms? They're afraid of beign assaulted by men but as you say:
>I would fucking hope they'd notice you being assaulted by ANYONE so this is not relevantSo I don't see why they need to use women's bathrooms.
No. 182231
>>182228You're the one acting like a full-fledged retard. You are aware that women's bathrooms are traditionally placed further past men's bathrooms so that men walking past men's restrooms, clearly walking towards the women's bathroom, can be spotted and stopped? You know, for safety reasons.
Oh and great argument, everyone pack it up, laws don't actually stop all crimes from occurring so let's just get rid of all laws, right? Genius! Let's not make murder illegal, because it doesn't stop people from murdering! Revolutionary!
No. 182234
>>182232>Because they fucking want to and it comes down to feelings? So feelings matter more than material reality, a material reality that: women fought to get sex segregated bathrooms originally due to
fear of using shared bathrooms in public with men because, you guessed it
rape, assault, harassment, etc.
So women fought and got their bathrooms, and now can go out into public without fear of having to share a small, vulnerable, intimate space with men who are statistically more likely than women to attack and rape women.
Your argument seems to be: transwomen can safely use men's bathrooms but don't want to because of their
feelings versus women fought for sex segreated facilities because of
safety.
>you list these reasons like rape/assault which can happen and already has laws in place regardless then you shoe horn all women are uncomfortable when we aren't.Yes, these laws include not letting the opposite sex into SEX SEGREGATED SPACES ie BATHROOMS you dense motherfucker because it is DANGEROUS for… drum roll… WOMEN! Look up studies about other countries where women don't have sex segregated bathrooms, and see what they say about how they are afraid and the rates of attacks in bathrooms.
>They are public bathrooms. If you want to keep certain minorities out of them, (no matter how small the percentage), it's because you're a bigot, not because of increased chance of violence to you. You have been so effectively brainwashed by trans activists it is incredible. There is no room to debate with you people: misgendeirng is violence and kills millions of transwomen! Not validating transwomen makes you a MURDERER! You BIGOT!
That's how you sound. You have no ability for grey in your black-and-white us-vs-them bigot-vs-trans world.
>People like you need to say, I don't want trans people to use the bathroom that makes them comfortable because I think they're gross and my feelings matter more. Like take responsibility for your shit.First off: If feelings are what matter, why don't the feelings of the women who are afraid matter but the feelings of transgender males do? Why can't women use the restroom that makes them most comfortable (IE sex segregated facilities) you know, the one they fought for? Why does the comfort of transwomen trump women's comfort?
Women don't want men in the bathroom with them, for all the reasons I have said above, based in historical, material reality. Your argument against it is: but it makes transwomen sad. Again, women's safety > trans feelings. You are more worried about hurt feelings than women becoming more vulnerable. That's incredible to me.
Believe it or not, not every person who is against gender identity laws are raging bigots. Amazing, I know, hard for you to wrap your head around.
No. 182237
>>182234OK cool so ftm trans taking testosterone and totally male looking, they can go into the women's room and you won't be
triggered and raging right? Since it's their biological sex. So Buck Angel has to use the women's room and you'll be happy with this and not feel like your precious safe space aka a fucking Target bathroom isn't being invaded by the evil patriarchy. You are so self centered and whiney and literally why more people hate feminists than trans.
No. 182238
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>>182226What the fuck are you saying you pissbaby tard?
You're trying to say lolcow has a problem with trannies as a whole when it's proven by those threads we really only complain about the types who are attention whores, lolcows, and general asshats. Not everyday trannies who don't bug us and who don't make news.
Are you this god damn dense?
No. 182239
>>182227>Trans males have attacked women in bathroomsBiological women who look like men have been harassed as an outcome of this legislation bullshit more than anyone. Quote your source that says there's been an increase in bathroom attacks by MtF trannies or you're full of shit. End of story.
>Women knew women were the ones entering women's bathroomsThey didn't know shit. Women have always been making fun and singling out butch and masculine women all the same. Now they are just emboldened by political discourse to make a spectacle of their shit now.
No. 182240
>>182237>OK cool so ftm trans taking testosterone and totally male looking, they can go into the women's room and you won't be triggered and raging right?You're the one who said totally passing MTF and thus conversely passing FTM were never in any danger in the opposite sexed bathroom, no one ever clocks them. And this might surprise you but I know and have spoken to many transmen who say they have to use women's bathrooms. They are afraid to, yes, but you know what they are more afraid of? Using men's bathrooms. How interesting. I wonder why.
>You are so self centered and whiney and literally why more people hate feminists than trans.And you have no arguments that aren't regurgitated 'good trans ally' lines. You have yet to refute any of my points, and instead try to divert or ignore everything I say.
No. 182242
>>182239>Biological women who look like men have been harassed as an outcome of this legislation bullshit more than anyone.They have been harassed more, yes. It's sad.
>Quote your source that says there's been an increase in bathroom attacks by MtF trannies or you're full of shit. End of story. https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/05/28/men-love-the-ladies-restroom-transgender-edition/Here's a big list of attacks by males (that includes transwomen) on women in bathrooms. I await your "not real trans" no-true-scotsman. Tip: how are women or anyone else supposed to determine the men in each of these articles were 'not real trans'?
>>182241But I thought passing MTF could freely use women's bathroom with no repercussions? Aren't they a moot point by your own standards?
So transwomen are afraid in men's bathroom because they are afraid of being perceived as either trans or women around men and that makes it okay for them to use women's bathroom, but women aren't allowed to be afraid around men (including non-passing transwomen) in their bathrooms?
No. 182249
>>182242Nice wordpress. I'm more angry that you expect me to read that horribly organized eyesore blog rather than summarizing this so-called "statistic" you had for me.
Welp, that does it. Time to ban any gender that fights in the bathroom…wait!
>But I thought passing MTF could freely use women's bathroom with no repercussions? Huh? What does that have to do with your original sentence that said "why don't transwomen just use men's restrooms"? Um, because there would be social repercussions like blowing their identity. Idiot.
And secondly, I never said non-passing should be granted access to gendered bathrooms.
At this point you're arguing with one other anon besides me and it's getting real confusing whose argument you think you're responding to.
No. 182252
>>182251>that all trans people pass or only "real" trans people passDo quote where I said this specifically. Because clearly the mention of 'passing' implies there are trans who don't.
>A non-passing transwoman says they are a woman, but still very much appear maleIt depends if they've been formally diagnosed with GD, if they're undergoing hormone therapy and are genuinely transitioning as opposed to people who are just being creepy and want the opposite bathroom. What's wrong with that kind of filter? It doesn't make my argument fall apart at all.
But again, this puts the onus on your argument because HOW DO YOU ENFORCE THIS SHIT?
No. 182255
>>182246So when you go to festivals with Porta potties or small stores with unisex bathrooms do you just hold it? Do you feel unsafe around men only in bathrooms with stalls or any empty aisle in the corner of a store? Dealing with violence against women should not include discriminating against a small group that has been using the bathroom they preferred for years. Sexual predators that happen to be trans should not be criminalized for being trans, but for being sexual predators and it sounds like you see them as the same thing. And the funny thing to me is that I could respect your view point if this was about changing rooms or women only gyms, or something like that, but this is bathrooms. With stalls. Where you see nothing. Like let people pee in peace. No one is going to stand outside and check your ID to pee. This just opens the door for masculine females to be humiliated and confronted by other customers. You don't have to validate anyone. You just walk in the bathroom and see someone like Willam Belli going to wash his hands and you go into your stall and mind your own business. If you are so
triggered and upset by that image idk how you exist in public but just like how you think the public shouldn't cater to trans, I don't think it should cater to you. And it is "you" because not all women are having panic attacks and being offended over trans women in our bathrooms.
No. 182257
>>182252So for them to enter women's bathrooms they need to provide their medical history…?
I guess I can roll with that.
No. 182260
>>182252>It depends if they've been formally diagnosed with GD, if they're undergoing hormone therapy and are genuinely transitioning as opposed to people who are just being creepy and want the opposite bathroom. What's wrong with that kind of filter? It doesn't make my argument fall apart at all. Yes it does.
Your filter: to determine whether a non-passing transwoman belongs in a sex segregated space: Where is your paper that certifies you have been diagnosed with GD? Where is proof that you are undergoing hormone therapy? Prove to me that you are
genuinely transitioning (fun fact, adult trans people are coaching younger trans people on how to more easily get past 'gate keeping' in the medical community by repeating doctor-approved 'reasons').
My filter: You, a non passing transwoman, look like a male and are biologically male, out you go.
Which is simpler and more logical?
>>182255>discriminating against a small group that has been using the bathroom they preferred for years. Explain to me how keeping current biological sex laws would impact these passing trans people you are so addicted to bringing up. By your own admission, they have entered women's bathrooms without ever raising an eyebrow? So again I ask you: why the need to change laws to gender identity to protect people who were never, apparently, stopped by them?
>but this is bathrooms. With stalls. Where you see nothing. Like let people pee in peace.Actually, this is reaches beyond bathrooms; prisons, shelters, locker rooms, community showers. Many of these do not have "With stalls. Where you see nothing." See the problem? The decision on bathrooms directly impacts all of these other sex segregated spaces and many others.
> I don't think it should cater to you. And it is "you" because not all women are having panic attacks and being offended over trans women in our bathrooms.I hate to break you out of your echo chamber, but most people see a big problem with allowing men into spaces for women. Ask some random moms about how they'd feel about their daughter showering with a man, dick and all, in a community shower; say in a school gym room (sound familiar? those girls walked out of their school to protest, but no one cares how they feel, only that it hurt their transgender peer's feelings).
No. 182261
>>182257The point is you can't reasonably enforce this shit.
>>182260>Which is simpler and more logical?Neither as you cannot reasonably enforce this shit with accuracy thus making the whole damn thing futile. It makes more sense to punish people who are clearly set out to harass people or be criminals. Not trans people themselves.
No. 182263
>>182261So you suggest changing the laws to something that can be enforced even less? The gender identity "filter" is worthless internal sense of self. Biological sex is a reality that is observable.
And yes, you can enforce this with accuracy, as it has been in the past before any of this debate ever came up. Men were not allowed into women's bathrooms, and were reported, or stopped. Yes, they have still committed crimes, but the point is there was a way to stop them before they ever hurt someone, and the crimes were
less than if they were just allowed carte blanche.
Now you want to open it up and let more men in (since they cannot be stopped at all from entering in the first place, whereas before you could reasonably do this), and just deal with the after math. That sounds needlessly cruel to the women and girls who will be harmed.
No. 182264
>>182260Like I mentioned previously, changing rooms could be different though I was never naked in one despite doing sports in high school and going to a gym now.
HB2 changed the conversation and made this necessary to discuss.
You say lots of people have an issue. Lots of us don't. You're offended by trans people. Lots of us aren't.
Transwomen in female bathrooms should not be an issue. You can keep calling them men and rapists. You can keep saying women matter more and that we are all scared of being raped by transwoman. I disagree with you. I am not the only one that does. You can love women and trans people and believe they both deserve equal treatment and respect. I am sorry you are not capable of this.
No. 182265
>>182262Laugh at it because you can't answer it.
>>182263>Biological sex is a reality that is observable.Until that observation is wrong because clearly not everyone looks like their biological sex.
>men were not allowed in women's bathroomsYeah, men who looked like men. Not men who dressed and passed themselves as women. It was never reported or stopped because people were none the wiser.
Please prove how MtF are more likely to commit assaults in bathrooms. And no, wordpress blogs that are poorly organized don't prove shit. Women are going to continue to be assaulted by other women and non-trans men who enter bathrooms for the purpose of committing criminal acts, yet you're going to tantrum over a marginal group. Okay. You win. Really.
No. 182266
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>>182265>Laugh at it because you can't answer it.Are you okay?
Am I supposed to answer to the fact that you literally contradicted yourself?
No. 182269
>>182268Here's what you said, in context:
>It depends if they've been formally diagnosed with GD, if they're undergoing hormone therapy and are genuinely transitioning as opposed to people who are just being creepy and want the opposite bathroom. What's wrong with that kind of filter? It doesn't make my argument fall apart at all.I'm curious as how you're gonna pass that off as being ironic, really.
No. 182271
>>182264>You're offended by trans people.You keep relying on this belief that you are the "enlightened" progress side and your opponents are just "bigots".
I am not offended by trans people. I am offended by trans people's feelings mattering more than women's safety.
>Transwomen in female bathrooms should not be an issue.Most transwomen don not pass half as well as you think they do. They look like men, whether wearing heels and a dress, or not.
>You can keep calling them men and rapists. I have never said all trans people are rapists (I have said thought that males are statistically more likely than women to rape women, which is a fact). I say they are men because they, transwomen, are born male. Male=men. It is not possible to change your biological sex to the opposite. This does not make me some horrible evil bigot that wants transwomen to die. I just believe they are male. Your side is the one that takes the value neutral statement and turns it into a death wish.
As males, transwomen retain a male criminality:
>regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality.Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden
Cecilia Dhejne, Paul Lichtenstein, Marcus Boman, Anna L. V. Johansson, Niklas Långström, Mikael Landén
Men are not allowed into female sex segregated space due to the risk of danger. transwomen are biologically male. you see where I am going with this?
>You can love women and trans people and believe they both deserve equal treatment and respect. I agree. That's why I believe trans people should spend their time advocating for third option gender neutral facilities. That way they too can be safe and comfortable. Everyone wins.
>>182265>please prove how MtF are more likely to commit assaults in bathrooms. And no, wordpress blogs that are poorly organized don't prove shit. Women are going to continue to be assaulted by other women and non-trans men who enter bathrooms for the purpose of committing criminal acts, yet you're going to tantrum over a marginal group. Okay. You win. Really.See above:
>regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality.Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden
Cecilia Dhejne, Paul Lichtenstein, Marcus Boman, Anna L. V. Johansson, Niklas Långström, Mikael Landén
Transwomen retain male criminality. Males are not allowed into female sex segregated spaces due to the danger they pose since they are statistically more likely to harm women than women are.
No. 182275
>>182270You've drank too much kool-aid if you sincerely think you can't look at the average transwoman and see they are male.
>>182272>While there may be instances of transgender people assaulting cisgender people in these situations, it's statistically more likely for the transgender person to be assaulted or harassed. Prove it. You are aware that the transwomen who are assaulted and harassed and murdered are primarily non-white and poor, typically prostitutes? You know, the races and socioeconomic background also consistently linked to being assaulted and harassed and murdered at high rates. Your average 30-40 year old white upper middle class transwoman is statistically less likely to be murdered than you, a presumably "cis" woman.
>>182273>Plenty of assaults, bullying, and harassment happens in women's bathrooms without trannies being involved. Then why are trans activists fighting for inclusion in womens' bathrooms? Why are they not fighting for
>single toilet gender neutral bathrooms with a lockI guess they don't give a shit about safety, eh?
No. 182276
>>182270Retard,
you're the one who earnestly proposed medical history checks. Do you have short term memory loss or something?
>>182238>LOLCOW HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRO TRANS! ANTI TRANNY NEWFAGS NOT WELCOME! STOP SAMEFAGGING! ARGH!>uh we've had several threads about trannies in the past and none of them have been pro trans at all>NO! THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!>jesus, look in the catalog>HURR THOSE DON'T COUNT THEY WERE JUST MAKING FUN OF SPECIFIC ATTENTION WHORES WHO HAPPEN TO BE TRANNIES>that's demonstrably false, did you even look past the OPs? Hell, even the OPs themselves don't mention specific individuals much.>ARGH! SHUT UP! YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE STUPID!My fucking sides.
No. 182279
>>182276>LOLCOW HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRO TRANS! Never said that nor was I the anon who accused you of samefagging but keep being
triggered snowflake.
>WAHHHHH TRANNIESSSS BAWWWWWW No. 182280
>>182277You sound like you have run out of official trans-ally-approved counter points. I'm sure you'll still get a cookie though for trying.
Just know, that for as hard as you went for trans activism just now, they will never do it for you, and in fact seek to undermine your health as a woman ie: abortion debates not being "inclusive" enough of transwomen and thus being shut down, etc. It's sad.
>>182278Why aren't trans activists fighting for single toilet bathroom for everyone then? I guess they don't give a shit about safety.
No. 182284
>>182282>You're arguing with more than one person, you realize that, right?Um there's two people arguing with you too because I'm not
>>182281, so.
No. 182286
>>182281It's so disingenuous to pretend HB2 was all about transgender people. It undermined gay and lesbian rights way more severely.
But it doesn't surprise me that a group with such a high proportion of narcissism clamors for all of the attention.
No. 182288
>>182285>Sex segregated bathrooms began AS a safeguard.What a fucking bullshit lie lmao.
>http://reason.com/archives/2014/04/11/gender-neutral-bathrooms-building-codesPublic restrooms have not always been gender segregated. "Historically, shared public latrines have been a feature of most communities, and this continues to be true in developing countries such as Ghana, China, and India," note Olga Gershenson and Barbara Penner in Ladies and Gents: Public Toilets and Gender.
"Private, sex-segregated lavoratories were a modern and Western European invention, bound up with urbanization, the rise of sanitary reform, the privatization of the bodily functions, and the gendered ideology of separate spheres."
According to sociology and sexuality studies professor Sheila Cavanagh, the first separate toilet facilities for men and women appeared at a ball in Paris in 1739. Until then, public restrooms, such as they existed, were generally gender neutral or marked for men only. The earliest efforts to legislate gender segregation in the United States were due to a lack of women’s facilities in workplaces.
No. 182289
>>182225>>182283I can screenshot the entire tranny thread with caitlyn jenner as the OP to prove that no, it has always been about trannies in general as opposed to individuals, but it's honestly more hilarious seeing you fight tooth and nail to push this revisionist lolcow history.
Yep. lolcow's liek, totes a girl's club and like, trannies have always been welcomed. Those who try to ostracize us are the
real outsiders! xox
No. 182297
>>182288>China, and Indialol wtf
When I grew up in china I've never even saw a unisex public bathroom unless it was a handicap bathroom. I've watched a documentary about a indian slum near the beach and even they had sex segregated bathrooms. I'm pretty sure the prevalence of unisex bathrooms in either of these two countries is comparable to developed countries.
No. 182298
>>182293>>Sex-Separation in Public Restrooms: Law, Architecture, and Gender
>"legislators began to regulate public architectural spaces as a means of fostering social values. Accepting the inherentweakness of women and their need for protection, Victorian society began creating separate spaces in public facilities reserved exclusively for women."
My article seems to give an example of the first female bathrooms set in 1739 whereas your book you're quoting seems to start in the Victorian era which began in 1837. Almost like cultures and the need for female bathrooms developed separately and there were many reasons why before "protecting virtue and separating the spheres" that separate bathrooms existed.
You lil cute. Trying to slip that past me ;)
>>182294Older than two years you stupid asshole, and I was definitely here back before it switched from Stamina Rose.
No. 182303
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>>182302>anyone who disagrees w/ me and doesn't bitch about trannies in the bathroom is a tranny Kek you're so bootyblasted.
No. 182305
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>>182304>implying I ever even mentioned tranny fee feesI suggest you get a plastic bubble seeing as though you need your weak self protected from all men.
No. 182306
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Quick question and it may be considered OT but have trannies actually been proven to be a real thing yet? I was under the impression that the science isn't out yet to prove whether trannies are real therefore there should be no argument about whether trannies should be allowed in bathrooms seeing as our current natural understanding is that they are cross-playing men. Also social science is not real science due to it's excessive empiricist bullocks so i'll have none of that shit pls ergo saying social science is science is akin to saying astrology is on par with astronomy.
No. 182310
>>182288I live in Ghana and most bathrooms are sex-segregated, aside from in very, very poor places (and in such cases, the "bathroom" is usually just…one wall).
Who wrote this?
No. 182315
>>182306saged for OT but the science that has been done is being questioned because it was a very small study and has been accused of confirmation bias.
I would be very interested if they did a large scale study across many different people and see how their brains mapped, the results could be used for various things and put this question to bed once and for all.
No. 182335
>>182328>the way you're stereotyping women's interactions makes you so obviously trans Haha what the actual fuck?
You're seriously denying bullying and fighting doesn't take place in the women's bathroom? Did you even go to high school?
You're the tranny.
Also
>let me make a broad sweeping stereotype that all women are lovelies but anyone who says otherwise is clearly a dude No. 182379
>>182374Not a tranny for the umpteenth time.
>Way to expose yourself as underage.By asking you if you went to high school where bathroom fights are most common? I'm mid 20s, and you're how old?
>Women don't typically get in brawls with strangers in the ladies room over their looksUh yes we do, stop pretending all women are lovelies because it suits your argument.
>never once did I say women aren't capable of violence against each other, but its not as common as male violenceNo, what you're actually trying to say is that somehow men (aka trannies) go into women's bathrooms and assault them more often than women assault and beat up on each other and that's reason enough to take it up against trannies like banning them specifically will somehow stop/reduce the violence. That's bullshit. I'm not an MRA but it doesn't take one to see how you can't "ban violence" from bathrooms.
https://youtu.be/0MBsIlrMXYIhttps://youtu.be/H9Z6rMie3Zchttps://youtu.be/kg23asL9ShIhttps://youtu.be/9qocp4hbSsIhttps://youtu.be/GycIvIePTvshttps://youtu.be/3PK3qNzy1Fshttps://youtu.be/5g7RcXzFd5whttps://youtu.be/MLE_XDVg73chttps://youtu.be/lbLAaWduhxghttps://youtu.be/MCg0Gi23nMchttps://youtu.be/HQTnfvwxT_0https://youtu.be/qLedOQFNEQgSuch innocence. And these are only what's recorded on phones and reported in media.
>>182377>You probably think women spend ages in public bathrooms applying makeupHow does that relate to bathroom violence in any fucking sense? What does makeup have to do with anything? I don't even put my makeup on in public bathrooms because they're typically gross and there's usually no place to set shit regardless, plus the counters are usually wet.
No. 182383
>>182379More men (including transwomen aka males) attack women in the bathroom than women attack women in the bathroom.
Your argument is so flimsy, if women's bathrooms are ~so dangerous~ why do trans want in them so badly that they want to change legal definitions. why aren't trans fighting for safe single stall options?
No. 182388
>>182383>why do trans want in them so badly that they want to change legal definitionsBecause a tranny going into a men's bathroom will likely result in a higher outcome of violence. Because maybe it's not about violence to them at all and about going to the bathroom they identify as.
YOU brought up violence because you argued trannies cause it in women's bathrooms.
I provided evidence that there's violence already in women's bathrooms perpetuated by other women.
>>182387>posts a 23 minute videoI'm not watching that.
You cited a statistic that said men attack women in bathrooms in far greater numbers than women do. Prove it bitch, good luck.
No. 182392
>>182388If you are so sure that more women attack women, then I'd assume you were the one with all the stats? so why don't you share yours? But hey, since you can't watch a video, here's a list of some men including transwomen, attacking women in sex segregated spaces (including bathrooms), a list bigger than your puny ~12ish youtube vids
1. Lancaster, PA – James Thomas Shoemaker (19). Quarryville man accused of using phone to look at 10-year-old girl in Sheetz restroom. Fox 43, April 18, 2016, available at
http://fox43.com/2016/04/18/quarryville-man-accused-of-using-phone-to-look-at-10-year-old-girl-in-sheetz-restroom/. The girl told her mother, who was waiting for her outside the bathroom, that a man was in the adjoining stall using his cell phone camera to record her as she used the facilities. Employees called the police, who found the man still in the bathroom an hour later, using his phone to access pornography, while in the stall, as well as using the camera on the phone to look under other stalls in order to view women next to him.
2. Clearwater, FL – Ricky Blake Thompson (18). Police: Man attacks 6-year-old girl in women’s bathroom. KLFY News, April 30, 2016, available at
http://klfy.com/2016/04/30/police-man-attacks-6-year-old-girl-in-womens-bathroom/. A 6 year old girl panicked and screamed when she saw a man in the women’s restroom at Macy’s. The man in question claimed that it was an “accident” that he was in the “incorrect bathroom” and when the young girl screamed, he “panicked” and “placed his hand over her mouth in an effort to silence her.” The young girl then fell to the floor. The man turned himself into the authorities after the incident.
3. Olympia, WA. - Unidentified male. Sexual Assault Victims Speak Out Against Washington’s Transgender Bathroom Policies. Daily Signal, January 25, 2016, available at
http://dailysignal.com/2016/01/25/sexual-assault-victims-speak-out-against-washingtons-transgender-bathroom-policies/. YMCA Communications Director resigns, 300 families cancel membership due to YMCA policy allowing men into women’s restrooms. Prior to the statewide YMCA policy, the YMCA in Pierce County began allowing “transgender” members to use the locker room of their choosing. When the policy was formally written, the communications director (a sexual assault victim) told her superiors that she could not support this decision. YMCA asked her to resign, and promised 10 weeks’ severance if she kept quiet. After 300 households canceled their memberships over the new policy, in September 2015, YMCA scaled it back to try to appease the members that were leaving. By December 2015, however YMCA had reinstated the policy of allowing men in women’s lockers (and vice versa), stating that it was simply following state law.
4. Seattle, WA – Unidentified male. Seattle man in women's locker room cites gender rule. KGW News, February 16, 2016, available at
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/washington/seattle-man-in-womens-locker-room-cites-gender-rule/45248512. A man walked into a woman’s locker room and began to undress. Evans Pool was open for lap swim on February 8, 2016, when a man wearing his bathing suit entered the women’s locker room and began to undress. The women went to the staff who asked the man to leave, but the man stated that since Washington law had changed, he had a right to be in the locker room of his choice. “No one was arrested in this case and police weren't called, even though the man returned a second time while young girls were changing for swim practice.” See also
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/incident-highlights-problem-transgender-bathroom-laws 5. Prince William County, VA – Richard Rodriguez (30). Police: peeper dressed like a woman arrested at Potomac Mills, InsideNOVA.com, November 7, 2015, available at Mall.
http://www.insidenova.com/headlines/police-peeper-dressed-like-a-woman-arrested-at-potomac-mills/article_ed53ae70-8d6c-11e5-94aa-cfd12cd8f99a.html; Man dressed as woman suspected of filming multiple women, including a woman and her 5-year-old daughter, in mall restrooms. The suspect in multiple incidents, a 30 year old man used a bag to conceal a camera to film women as they used the restroom facilities in the Potomac Mills. See also
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Man-Dressed-as-Woman-Arrested-for-Spying-Into-Mall-Bathroom-Stall-Police-Say-351232041.html 6. Toronto, Canada – Two unidentified males. October 2015. University “temporarily” closes two “transgender” bathrooms due to “peeping” incidents. MRCTV, October 9, 2015, available at
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/university-dumps-transgender-bathrooms-after-peeping-incidents; Two incidents that occurred 5 days apart at the University of Toronto caused the University to close the transgender bathrooms as a temporary measure after voyeurism by males. In both reports, two different male students were caught spying on females as they used the showers in the bathrooms. The male students used their cell phones to take pictures of the females as they showered. Only the “gender neutral” bathrooms where this incident took place were closed, other “gender neutral” facilities on the campus remained open to males. See also
http://www.dailywire.com/news/330/university-toronto-dumps-transgender-bathrooms-pardes-seleh 7. Gwinnett County, GA - Jeffrey Wayne Shumate (38). Man dressed as woman accused of attacking real estate agent, July 22, 2015, available at
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/real-estate-agent-says-she-was-attacked-man-dresse/33425296; (“We don’t know why he decided to dress in women’s clothing and we don’t know his motivation,” said Cpl. Michele Pihera with the Gwinnett County Police Department.
The real estate agent was showing the man a home along Sugarloaf Parkway, in Gwinnett County, on Wednesday morning.
“When she (the real estate agent) got there she felt uneasy about the situation. She didn’t want to go inside the home by herself,” Pihera said.
After the man exited the home, he attacked the agent who was waiting on the front porch, according to investigators. She was able to track down a passing car, and they called 911.
“She tried to fight off the offender and she tried to run away and ultimately that probably saved her life,” Pihera said.
8. Toronto, Canada – Christopher Hambrook (37). Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ in order to assault women in shelter, LifeSiteNews, March 4, 2014, available at
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault; Predator who claimed to be transgender declared dangerous offender, Toronto Sun, February 26, 2014, available at
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender; Shocking case proves ‘Toby’s Law’ is flawed, Toronto Sun, February 15, 2014, available at
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/15/shocking-case-proves-tobys-law-is-flawed; A sex predator’s sick deception, Toronto Sun, February 15, 2014, available at
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/15/a-sex-predators-sick-deception.
9. Halifax Township, PA - Austin Christopher Wikels (23). Man who portrayed himself as ‘cross dresser’ arrested for alleged role in sexual assault, state police say, Penn Live, May 2, 2014, available at
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/05/cross_dresser_sexual_assault_h.html .
10. Liverpool, England – Paul Williams (46). Perverted cross dresser jailed after breaching sexual offences prevention order, Liverpool Echo, Feb. 6, 2014, available at
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/wallasey-cross-dresser-jailed-after-6681097.
11. San Francisco, CA – “Dana” McCallum (32). So-called “transgender” female Twitter engineer, charged with raping his estranged wife the day after serving her with divorce papers, Daily Mail Online, April 11, 2014, available at
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2602740/Transgender-female-Twitter-engineer-charged-raping-estranged-wife.html ; “Transgender” [sic] women’s rights advocate and prominent Twitter engineer charged with rape, The San Francisco Examiner, April 11, 2014, available at
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/transgender-womens-rights-advocate-and-prominent-twitter-engineer-charged-with-rape/Content?oid=2761316 ; Respected Twitter Engineer “Dana” McCallum Charged With Rape, ValleyWag, April 11, 2014, available at
http://valleywag.gawker.com/respected-twitter-engineer-dana-mccallum-charged-with-r-1562193427.
12. Perth, Australia – Gavin Scott (52). Transvestite wearing dress groped female shop staff, Scottish Express, March 21, 2014, available at
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/466020/Perth-Transvestite-stands-accused-of-sexual-assault “He admitted sexually assaulting three young women during a bizarre course of behavior lasting almost three months.”
13. Oklahoma City, OK – Christopher Todd Gard (40). Homeless Man Wearing Women’s Panties Accused of Assaulting Young Girl in OKC, News9.com, Sept. 16, 2013, available at
http://www.news9.com/story/23443942/homeless-man-arrested-wearing-womens-panties-accused-of-assaulting-young-girl-in-okc-gas-station-bathroom (40 year old man hides in bathroom and attacks an 8 year old girl).
14. Marion County, Arkansas -Carl Dahn (31). Cross-dressing Bergman man arrested for Internet Stalking & Computer Child Pornography, Marion County Sheriff’s Office, Aug. 21, 2013, available at
http://www.marioncountysheriffar.com/press_view.php?id=531&PHPSESSID=03b625299605b9203bb394ab3bd9c541;.
15. Bergman, Arkansas - Sean Gossman (24). “Transgender” Adrian man gets 7 years in federal child porn case, Daily Telegram via LenConnect.com, April 20, 2014, available at
http://www.lenconnect.com/article/20140420/News/140418764; Thumb Drive Found In Park Leads To Arrest In Child Porn Case, CBS Detroit, May 16, 2013, available at
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/05/16/thumb-drive-found-in-park-leads-to-arrest-in-child-porn-case/.
16. Falls Church, VA – Carlos Guillermo Suarez Diaz (46). Police Make Arrest in March Cross Dressing Sexual Assault Case, Falls Church News, May 4, 2013, available at
http://fcnp.com/2013/05/04/police-make-arrest-in-march-cross-dressing-sexual-assault-case/ ; Falls Church man arrested in sexual assault of teen, Wash. Post, May 5, 2013, available at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/falls-church-man-arrested-in-sexual-assault-of-teen/2013/05/05/c56cc43c-b592-11e2-92f3-f291801936b8_story.html .
17. Lisbon, Ohio - Aaron LaGrand. Crossdressing molester to spend at least 15 years in prison, The Review, Aug. 6, 2013, available at
http://reviewonline.com/page/content.detail/id/568264/Crossdressing-molester-to-spend-at-least-15-years-in-prison.html; Cross-dresser charged with sex crimes, Salem News, Sept. 28, 2012, available at
http://www.salemnews.net/page/content.detail/id/558716/Cross-dresser-charged-with-sex-crimes.html?nav=5019; EL man charged with child rape enters insanity plea, Salem News, Nov. 15, 2012, available at
http://www.salemnews.net/page/content.detail/id/560335.html 18. Ft. Myers, Florida - John Maatsch. Crossdresser attempts murder - Maatsch gets 15 years for attempted murder, burglary, ABC7, April 29, 2013, available at
http://www.abc-7.com/story/22111060/maatsch-gets-15-years-for-attempted-murder-burglary#.U3UzkPldVj4.
19. England - Unidentified male. Hunt for flasher in stockings, Leicester Mercury, June 8, 2013, available at
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Hunt-flasher-stockings/story-19217295-detail/story.html .
No. 182393
>>18239220. Palmdale, CA. - Jason Pomare (33). CBS/AP, Man in Woman’s Clothes Accused of Videotaping Inside Macy’s Restroom, CBS Los Angeles, May 14, 2013, available at
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/05/14/man-in-womans-clothes-accused-of-videotaping-inside-macys-restroom/ ; Palmdale man arrested for videotaping in women’s bathroom, Antelope Valley Times, May 14, 2013, available at
http://theavtimes.com/2013/05/14/palmdale-man-arrested-for-videotaping-in-womens-bathroom/ ; Man Disguised as Woman Recorded “Hours” of Mall Restroom Video: Investigators, 4 NBC Southern California, May 16, 2013, available at
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Secret-Recording-Store-Mall-Antelope-Valley-Palmdale-Restroom-207541101.html ; DA: Cross Dressing Man Secretly Videotaped Women in Macy’s Bathroom, KTLA5, May 14, 2013, available at
http://ktla.com/2013/05/14/da-cross-dressing-man-secretly-videotaped-women-in-macys-bathroom-2/#axzz2YYtnPDRK ; Man wore dress, wig to videotape women in bathroom, deputies say, Los Angeles Times, May 14, 2013, available at
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/14/local/la-me-ln-man-videotape-women-in-restroom-20130514.
21. Loma Linda University, San Bernardino, CA - Rodney Kenneth Petersen. Man Dressed As Woman To Take Photos Of Female Students: Police, Huffington Post, June 25, 2013, available at
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/-rodney-kenneth-petersen_n_3496651.html; Cross-dressing man busted trying to spy in female college dorm, The Daily Caller, June 27, 2013, available at
http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/27/cross-dressing-man-busted-trying-to-spy-in-female-college-dorm/.
22. Ventura County, CA. - Unidentified male. Man wearing women’s clothing sought for indecent exposure to children ages 5 to 10 years old, Ventura County Sheriff’s Department via Ventura December 10, 2012, available at
http://ventura.edhat.com/site/tidbit.cfm?nid=105124&nc=1.
23. Evergreen State College, WA – Clay Scott “Colleen” Francis. Liberty Counsel sends letter to Thurston County prosecutor re Clay Scott Francis, November 2, 2012,
https://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attachments/110212_-_Ltr_-_Thurston_County_Prosecutor.pdf; College officials cite ‘non-discrimination’ law to admit biological males into women’s locker rooms on campus, Campus Reform, Nov. 2, 2012, available at
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=4482 ; Parents’ outrage as transgendered woman is permitted to use the women’s locker room ‘exposing himself to little girls,’ Mail Online, Nov. 3, 2012, available at
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227562/Colleen-Francis-Outrage-transgendered-woman-permitted-use-college-womens-locker-room-exposing-himself.html ; College OKs “transgender” man’s full monty to underage girls in women’s’ locker room, The Daily Caller, Nov. 6, 2012, available at
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/06/college-oks-transgender-mans-full-monty-to-underage-girls-in-womens-locker-room/; College Allows Transgender Man to Expose Himself to Young Girls, n.d., available at
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/college-allows-transgender-man-to-expose-himself-to-young-girls.html .
24. Bakersfield, CA. - Kristopher Lawless. Torture suspect once busted in drag for prostitution, BakersfieldNow.com, Nov. 6, 2012, available at
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/-dressed-as-a-woman-looking-for-sex-177420741.html; Kristopher Lawless, Alleged Attempted Murderer, Once Arrested For Prostitution While Wearing A Dress, Huffington Post, Nov. 6, 2012, available at
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/06/kristopher-lawless-attempted-murder_n_2082959.html .
25. Everett, WA – Taylor J. Buehler (18). Man wearing bra and wig arrested in women’s restroom at local college, Sky Valley Chronicle, March 17, 2012, Police: Man in bra and wig found in women’s bathroom, KOMOnews.com, March 16, 2012, available at
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Police-Man-spotted-in-womens-bathroom-wearing-bra-wig-142987265.html. A man wearing a bra and wig was spotted in a women’s bathroom at Everett Community College. A staff member at the college alerted security when they spotted the man entering the women’s restroom; police found that the suspect entered the restroom while two women were using the facilities. When the man was questioned, he stated that he had gone into the bathroom to use the facilities, but then admitted, after being taken into custody, that in an earlier incident, he took a shower in the women’s locker room for purposes of sexual gratification.
http://komonews.com/archive/police-man-in-bra-and-wig-found-in-womens-bathroom 26. Dallas, TX - Paul Ray “Paula” Witherspoon (56). Male “Transgender” [sic] registered sex offender ticketed for using ladies room, NBC News, May 2, 2012, available at
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/05/02/11501842-transgender-woman-ticketed-for-using-ladies-room?lite ; Transgender Woman: Convictions Irrelevant to Citation,NBCDFW.com, May 3, 2012, VIDEO available at
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Transgender-Woman-Convictions-Irrelevant-to-Citation-149923975.html. Mr. Witherspoon, a convicted serial child rapist who previously raped two girls, engaged in “gender identity or expression” by frightening a woman in a hospital restroom designated for use by women and girls, while wearing earrings, a skirt, and a large bulky ankle GPS device worn by paroled felons considered likely to re-offend. His parole had been previously revoked at least twice: in 2007 when Witherspoon was charged with assault and returned to prison until 2010, and again when he was arrested in 2011 for sending out pornographic photos of himself over the internet. Nevertheless, Lambda Legal representative Ken Upton claimed that pedophilic male serial sex offenders like Mr. Witherspoonshould be allowed to access private women and girls’ facilities regardless of legal gender status as long as he and other men are “using the bathroom in a way that is consistent with the gender that they live in day in and day out”.
27. Milwaukie, OR - Thomas Lee Benson (39). Cross-dressing, convicted sex offender released to community supervision. "Mr. Benson has been known to dress as a female to gain access to undressed minor females by frequenting restrooms, dressing rooms, changing rooms, aquatic centers and pool locker rooms." Oregon Live, May 3, 2012, available at
http://www.oregonlive.com/milwaukie/index.ssf/2012/05/cross-dressing_sex_offender_re.html.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-city/index.ssf/2011/10/cross-dressing_sex_predator_se.html Benson “keeps going to locations where children congregate.” Benson was arrested at an aquatic park when he went inside dressed as a woman and made contact with a little girl in the ladies locker room. He had been caught in the women’s dressing room at an Oregon athletic club; a dressing room at Portland's Mt. Scott Community Center in 2007, and was again caught in a women's dressing room at a Nordstrom store in 2009, all dressed in women’s attire.
https://allisonslaw.wordpress.com/tag/thomas-lee-benson/ Benson said he wants people to know he’s addicted to cross-dressing and he’s vowed to stop; however he is not certain he can change. “My drug of choice is women’s clothing,” he said. “The high I get is by having people look at me and say, ‘You are a woman.'” “Yes I have done things in the past that are bad, but I would also remind people I do not go around having sex with young girls anymore, and I have not been doing that in over 15 years,” he said.
28. Calgary, Canada – Matthew Harks. Name change for convicted pedophile, Calgary Sun, Aug. 25, 2012, available at
http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/08/25/name-change-for-convicted-pedophile.
29. South Devon, England – Mark Lazarus (39). Cross-dresser branded ‘high risk’ to women, Western Morning News, Sept. 27, 2012, available at
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Cross-dresser-branded-high-risk-women/story-16994889-detail/story.html ; Cross dressing sex attacker who attempted to rape a pensioner of 71 in public toilet was obsessed by skirts, Mail Online, Sept. 12, 2012, available at
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2209304/Mark-Lazarus-Cross-dressing-sex-attacker-obsessed-skirts-tried-rape-woman-71-Teignmouth-Devon.html .
30. Altamonte Springs, FL. – Steven Shepard (60). Man accused of trying to rape woman admits he’s a cross-dresser, WESH.com, Sept. 4, 2012, available at
http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/Man-accused-of-trying-to-rape-woman-admits-he-s-a-cross-dresser/16480216#!NBP8v ; Cross-dressing man attacked woman in laundry room, police say, Orlando Sentinel, Sept. 4, 2012, available at
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-04/news/os-cross-dressing-man-laundry-attack-20120904_1_cross-dressing-man-laundry-room-altamonte-springs-police .
31. Temecula, CA. – Javier Cortez (45). Police: Man Raped Child, Wore Her Underwear, Temecula Patch, April 24, 2012, available at
http://temecula.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/man-accused-of-raping-child-wearing-her-underwear .
32. Birmingham, UK. – Joel Hardman (23). Student wore a female rubber mask and wig to spy on women in public toilets, Mail Online, May 11, 2011, available at
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385889/Joel-Hardman-wore-female-rubber-mask-wig-spy-women-public-toilets.html#ixzz31o5D5Yy7 ; Shamed Birmingham student Joel Hardman avoids jail sentence over policeman attack, Birmingham Mail, Feb. 1, 2012, available at
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/shamed-birmingham-student-joel-hardman-178076 ; Bullring toilet pervert who wore mask and fancy dress to spy on women given community order, Birmingham Mail, May 11, 2011, available at
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/bullring-toilet-pervert-who-wore-154191 ; Perv in mask & wig spied on girls in loo, Daily Star, May 12, 2011, available at
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/190477/Perv-in-mask-wig-spied-on-girls-in-loo.
33. Sacramento, CA. – Parolee Renell Thorpe (33). Crossdressing Suspect Arrested for Raping Woman, CBS Sacramento, April 17, 2011, available at
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/04/17/crossdressing-suspect-arrested-for-raping-woman/; Sacramento Sheriff’s deputies nab parolee linked to home invasion, Sacramento Bee, April 17, 2011, available at
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2011/04/sacramento-sher-99.html .
34. California - UC Berkeley – Unidentified man (20’s -30’s). Man Disguised as Woman Allegedly Sneaks into RSF Women’s Locker Room, Takes Pictures, The Daily Californian, October 13, 2010, available at
http://archive.dailycal.org/article.php?id=110753 ; Cross-Dressing Peeping Tom Lurking on Cal Campus, NBC Bay Area, Oct. 13, 2010, available at
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Cross-Dressing-Peeping-Tom-Lurking-on-Cal-Campus-104878219.html; Cross-dressing Peeper Infiltrates Cal Women’s Locker Room, East Bay Express, October 12, 2010, available at
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/92510/-archives/2010/10/12/cross-dressing-peeper-infiltrates-cal-womens-locker-room .
35. Canberra, Australia – Unidentified male (20’s-30’s). ACT police seek cross-dressing flasher, The Sydney Morning Herald, March 25, 2011, available at
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/act-police-seek-crossdressing-flasher-20110325-1c9rt.html .
36. Manchester, U.K. – Qasim Anwar (30). Crossdresser cabbie convicted of rape, Manchester Evening News, April 20, 2010, available at
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/crossdresser-cabbie-convicted-of-rape-958087 (“carried out the attack dressed in make-up, a wig, women's clothing and high heels); Transvestite rapist jailed, Manchester Evening News, April 19, 2010, available at
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/transvestite-rapist-jailed-963868 (“Father-of-two Anwar, known in the gay village as Layla, had denied rape. He claimed the woman was an eager participant who had led him on.”).
37. Calhoun, GA – Norwood Smith Burns - Police: Man Undresses in Front of Children in Walmart Restroom, WSB-TV Atlanta, March 24, 2010, available at
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/police-man-undresses-in-front-of-children-in-walma/nJckr/ ; Cross-dressing man arrested for exposure at Walmart, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, March 25, 2010, available at
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/-cross-dressing-man-arrested-for-exposure-at-walmar/nQddG/.
38. Ayr, UK – Gavin Boyd (50). Life term for Ayr cross-dressing killer, BBC News, May 26, 2010, available at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10164595 ; Gavin Boyd was freed to murder Vikki McGrand, Daily Record, June 4, 2010, available at
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/gavin-boyd-freed-murder-vikki-2424458 ; Cross-dressing sex beast is jailed for 20 years after murdering woman he feared would reveal secret, Daily Record, May 27, 2010, available at
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/cross-dressing-sex-beast-is-jailed-for-20-1060080.
39. Campbelltown, Australia – Noel Crampton Hall (26). Sex change killer Maddison Hall to be free as a bird, The Daily Telegraph, April 3, 2010, available at
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/sex-change-killer-to-be-free-as-a-bird/story-e6freuzi-1225849057946. Did Hall get fellow prisoner pregnant?’ Sydney Morning Herald, Sept. 21, 2006, available at
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/did-hall-get-fellow-prisoner-pregnant/2006/09/21/1158431837244.html No. 182394
>>18239340. Oklahoma City, OK. Phillip John Ortega (56). Police: Man Wearing Ladies’ Swim Suit Exposes Himself, News9.com, Oct. 22, 2009, available at
http://www.news9.com/story/11366771/police-man-wearing-ladies-swim-suit-exposes-himself.
41. UK. – Known as “A”. Transsexual prisoner wins right to be in female prison, The Telegraph, Sept. 4, 2009, available at
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6138325/Transsexual-prisoner-wins-right-to-be-in-female-prison.html .
42. Fresno, CA. – Richard Masbruch. Transgender inmate faces complaint, Prison Reform Movement’s Weblog, December 5, 2008 available at
http://prisonreformmovement.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/transgender-inmate-faces-complaint/ ; People v. Masbruch, 920 P.2d 705, 13 Cal. 4th 1001 (Cal. 1996), available at
http://law.justia.com/cases/california/cal4th/13/1001.html .
43. Boulder, CO – Wesley Francis Cox (44). Woman in Peeping Tom case IDs bedroom as own, Daily Camera, Dec. 16, 2008, available at
http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_12953132 ; Police want help identifying owners of stolen underwear, Daily Camera, Dec. 3, 2008, available at
http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_13107916.
44. Detroit, MI - Jeremy Paul McIntosh (27). Police: Cross-dresser rams lingerie store, UPI, April 16, 2008, available at
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2008/04/16/Police-Cross-dresser-rams-lingerie-store/UPI-37931208371777/?st_rec=63871069941991. (McIntosh was "arrested while wearing blue women's pants, red sandals, a flower-print top and matching bra," and "accused of driving his Geo Tracker into the wall of Intimate Ideas lingerie store seven times after telling a 20-year-old female employee he was upset he didn't get a job there").
45. Hillsborough, OR. – Eric Triton Kincaid (29). Lingerie-clad man in Beaverton woman’s closet claims misunderstanding, OregonLive, April 7, 2008, available at
http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/04/he_was_in_her_closet_in_a_wig.html .
46. Norwich, U.K. - Steve Wright (48). UK hooker-slay suspect said to cross-dress, UPI, December 12, 2006, available at
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2006/12/20/UK-hooker-slay-suspect-said-to-cross-dress/UPI-45481166647768/?st_rec=63871069941991 ("’He was very strange and used to scare us’," ‘Tina,’ 45, said…Wright is said to have regularly worn high heels, a skirt and a wig when he went looking for vice girls while he worked in Norwich.”); found guilty of slayings, UPI, February 2, 2008, available at
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/02/22/British-serial-killer-gets-whole-life/65311203703658/; http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/02/21/Defendant-guilty-of-killing-5-prostitutes/47331203648190/ .
47. Durham, N.H. – Joseph Greenquist (18). Teen charged with stealing panties, AP via Pantagraph.com, Sept. 12, 2006, available at
http://www.pantagraph.com/news-/teen-charged-with-stealing-panties/article_d363d37b-d97d-5815-b2bc-ea5d8bb3afc3.html .
48. Matsuyama, Japan – Eichi Yamamoto (33). Cross-dresser arrested in bath house, UPI, Nov. 27, 2003, available at
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2003/11/27/Cross-dresser-arrested-in-bath-house/UPI-63871069941991/49. Exeter, UK – Marcus Hance (32). 10 years’ jail time for man whose meticulous rape plot failed, The Guardian, July 26, 2000, available at
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jul/27/4; Crossdresser put together ‘rape kit’ to attack student, The Telegraph, July 27, 2000, available at
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1350541/Crossdresser-put-together-rape-kit-to-attack-student.html.
50. Lehigh County, PA – Unidentified male inmate. Female prisoner contends that transvestite prisoner, who is a biological male, raped her in the shower. The Morning Call, June 17, 1984, available at
http://articles.mcall.com/1984-06-17/news/2417979_1_female-inmate-prison-officials-prison-authorities No. 182395
>>182392>>182393>>182394This is by no means an exhaustive list, but with minimal digging I can find an extremely alarming number of crimes involving men, trans or cross-dressing or what have you, attacking women in sex segregated spaces.
>>182388>Because a tranny going into a men's bathroom will likely result in a higher outcome of violence.Why is that I wonder… So trans can be afraid of men, but women can't? Double standard much…
>Because maybe it's not about violence to them at all and about going to the bathroom they identify as.If it isn't about violence then it is all about their feelings and I don't think it is fair to rewrite laws for a tiny minority of people's feelings at the expense of 50% of the population. Do you?
if they aren't ind anger in men's bathrooms, like you suggest, then they can go use them. but i think you know actually they are attacked by men in the mens bathroom, kind of like how men will attack women in women's bathroom…maybe thats why…women don't want…men…in their bathrooms!
astonishing! so again, why dont trans people fight for safe single stalled options? you know why. it's because they want validation for their identity.
>You cited a statistic that said men attack women in bathrooms in far greater numbers than women do. Prove it bitch, good luck.honestly i'd love to see your hard numbers for women assaulting and raping more women in women's bathrooms than men. but for now, all you have given me is a list of youtube videos, so I gave you a list of men, most IDing as trans or cross dressing, attacking women in vulnerable places.
No. 182398
>>181863>>182388Fucking LOL. First males need access to women's restrooms because the men's room is too dangerous, now the women's restroom is a hotbed for public brawls. Why do the trans want in if that were the case?
Pick an argument and stick to it.
No. 182400
>>182397Those posts were a list of crimes that trans people and their allies claim just don't happen:
https://mic.com/articles/114066/statistics-show-exactly-how-many-times-trans-people-have-attacked-you-in-bathrooms#.6X50Wq2vb>Surprise: There are zero reported cases of this happening. Interesting, because that list I just provided is not zero!
this is the favorite talking point by trans in the debate, so why the need to flat out LIE about it? Transgender people, an astonishingly rare and small proportion of the population, have committed a number of crimes against women in women only places. There is a furious attempt to cover it up, because it paints trans males as equally likely to prey on women as men do, which has been proven in a very comprehensive study. Men are already not allowed in the bathroom, and knowing transwomen are just as likely to attack women in bathrooms, they shouldn't be either. They should fight for safe single stall options.
Before you have an aneurysm, I have never implied all trans or all men are rapists, but men are statistically more likely to attack women than women are. transwomen are biologically male, and raised male until they transition, on average around age 30-40. it is not ludicrous for most women to not want this population to have access to their bathrooms.
>Title IX states that: No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistanceTitle 9 wanted to change biological sex, a FACT, to become gender, something that is unprovable. this would allow any man who says their trans into: women's bathrooms, locker rooms, PRISONS, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE/RAPE SHELTERS, SPORTS etc! Can't you see why that is
bad???
No. 182403
>>182402Why are transwomen more comfortable in women's bathrooms if they are just as likely to get assaulted by women as you claim?
Transwomen, being male, are as criminally violent as men are as population.
Trans people should be fighting for safe single stalled options and are not. why?
>All it does is dehumanize trans people.Not validating a trans person is dehumanizing? Let me guess, you think misgendering is ~literal violence~ too, right?
No. 182409
>>182404You didn't say that not letting them go to the bathroom of their choice (validation), a decision apparently predicated entirely on feelings and not fear apparently, is dehumanizing to them?
>my femininity is not threatened by transwomen and yours clearly is.And here we go, the "transwomen are more woman than you because they CHOOSE it!" defense.
My femininity is based in my biology, you know, being born a female. their femininity is based on gender feels and stereotypes.
>>182406I'm not implying that it's okay to kill black, poor, prostituted trans people, however, I am saying that it is a straight up lie to pretend ALL trans people are EQUALLY in danger when in fact, the overwhelming majority of trans people who are murdered are members of another already incredibly endangered minority (black, poor, and prostitutes).
Again, why is the death of 27 trans people considered outrageously large for a small % of the population, but 50 of them attacking women in bathrooms and locker rooms etc, no big deal?
No. 182412
>>182392>If you are so sure that more women attack women, then I'd assume you were the one with all the stats?Considering you were first to say men attack women in bathrooms, it's always been on you to provide evidence of that.
>since you can't watch a videoThanks, because that radfem bitch's voice was annoying af.
>a list bigger than your puny ~12ish youtube vidsThere's thousands on Youtube, and the ones I posted were just in the US. Just type in "women bathroom fights."
Jsyk–this long list you copy and pasted from someplace had a lot of dead links and contains a lot of non-bathroom crimes by non-transvestite criminals. Whose blog did you steal this from, give credit.
>1. James Thomas Shoemaker Not a tranny.
>2. Ricky Blake Thompson Not a tranny.
>3. News source blames trans policy for unidentified male entering bathroom.No evidence of tranny.
>4. Man abuses a law to carry out sexual crime.Not tranny.
>5. Man films women in dragCrossdresser, not tranny.
>6. Males peeked in on females in the bathroomHow the fuck can this be blamed on a trans policy? Those males aren't trannies. Pretty sure this is a popular tv trope too.
>7. Not a bathroom.Also not a tranny.
>8. Non-bathroom crimeThat's one tranny criminal.
>9. Crossdresser doing a non-bathroom crimeNot a tranny.
>10. Crossdresser-doing a non-bathroom crimeNot a tranny
>11. Non-bathroom crime That's the second tranny criminal.
>12. Non-bathroom crimeThird tranny criminal.
>13. Not a tranny.>14. Crossdresser. Non-bathroom crime.Not a tranny.
>15. Non-bathroom crimeFourth tranny criminal.
>16. Crossdresser, non-bathroom incidentNot a tranny.
>17. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>18. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>19. No proof of tranny, non-bathroom>>182393>20. CrossdresserNot a tranny.
>21.Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>22. Non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>23. Fifth tranny criminal that's bathroom related from your list.
>24. Drag, crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>25. CrossdresserNot a tranny.
>26. Transgender woman is pedoThe sixth tranny crime that's bathroom related.
>27. CrossdresserNot a tranny.
>28. Not bathroom related.Not a tranny.
>29. Cross dresserNot a tranny.
>30. Cross dresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>31. Non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>32. Peeping tomNot a tranny.
>33. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>34. Peeping tom crossdresserNot a tranny.
>35. Cross dresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>36. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>37. CrossdresserNot a tranny.
>38. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>39. Seventh tranny criminal, but it had nothing to do with a bathroom.
>>182394>40. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>41. Not a crime.>42. Not a crime.>43. Peeping Tom, non-bathroomNo evidence of tranny.
>44. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>45. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>46. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>47. Teen stealing panties, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>48. Crossdresser Not a tranny.
>49. Crossdresser, non-bathroomNot a tranny.
>50. Rape in prison showerEighth tranny crime.
Your scorecard:
Number of bathroom crimes perpetuated by trannies: 7. One was not bathroom related.
Number of bathroom crimes perpetuated by straight sexually deviant men: 16
The others literally have nothing to do with bathrooms.
No. 182414
>>182412How dare you misgender all these people. Who are YOU to decide who identifies as transgender and who is just a crossdresser?
All of these men probably identify as women, try again.
No. 182416
>>182412seriously, where are you stats proving women are more violent than men in women's bathrooms? like do you have them or not lol because it seems to me you just posted some vids of girls fighting in bathrooms, but can't find anything else, and are mad someone else has an even bigger list of men attacking women in bathrooms
also hey anon can you read or not jw, from the first post:
>here's a list of some men including transwomen, attacking women in sex segregated spaces>some men>including transwomen No. 182417
>>182414kek.
also it kinda proves the main crux of the argument-whats the difference between a tranny and a cross-dresser or AGP?
No. 182419
>>182414>All of these men probably identify as womenDid you not visit the links to the articles on your own list? Bitch, you made me read all those and you can't even have the decency to read them yourself to know the truth of the matter.
Fact: The crossdressers perpetuating those crimes were straight men whose fetishes were to dress as women and carry out sexual crimes.
Fact: The other straight males had no mention in articles about any kind of cross dressing or any indications they identify as female.
>>182416>seriously, where are you stats proving women are more violent than men in women's bathrooms? Where are your stats that say men carry out way more violent crimes against women in women's bathrooms than do other women?
I'm waiting for your study and not a bunch of cherrypicked articles. The onus is on you to prove how violent men are, particularly trannies since you think they should be banned.
No. 182420
>>182415Because changing biological sex, an observable fact about our sexually dimorphic species, to gender identity, an abstract useless concept, has far reaching consequences outside just bathrooms, again, prisons, locker rooms, DV shelters, sports, etc.
there is no other reason to change biological sex to mean an internal gender identity except for this teensy tiny proportion of society (0.3%). And again, if they are so small, why change it to suit their needs when it was made to meet the needs between males vs females (you know, 99.9% of the population) not one of literally any snowflake gender identity.
No. 182422
>>182419anon are you stupid im really beginning to worry, don't you realize if you share your super secret special statsitic that women assault and rape more women in bathrooms than men it would automatically disprove the other anons claim, since, you know, they'd be the same statistic…. proving over 98% of rapes are committed by men also proves that only 2% of rapes are committed by women, as an example, like, do you understand? lmfao
just wondering if you realize that
or if your stalling because you don't have jack shit
No. 182426
>>182422>if you share your super secret special statsitic that women assault and rape more women in bathrooms than men it would automatically disprove the other anons claim, since, you know, they'd be the same statisticNo bitch, the first claim was that men, in particular trannies, are going to cause an increase in violence in women's bathrooms. That needs to be proven first. And that wasn't spoken by me.
Stop ankle biting, you have nothing to add to this discussion.
No. 182428
>>182425>those aren't factsAnkle biting again, hm? Try reading those articles yourself and see what the police found in their investigations like what I had to do.
>how do you know for certain their internal sense of gender isn't female?Because they would have said they identify as female and not as straight men who love to dress as women.
No. 182431
>>182426it doesn't change the fact that if like you claim, more women assault and rape women in bathrooms, and you have the statistics prove it, it would immediately prove the other anon wrong, since more women committing crimes in women's bathrooms automatically means men commit them less than women. i still don't think you get it lmao
so post them
but you don't have them, do you? or anyone else?
>>182428maybe they're just worried about being outed as trans, it is so very dangerous to be trans in our society, there are many social ramifications I'm sure for being outed as trans, why they could have been killed by the police right if they admitted to being trans! :(((
No. 182432
>>182430>You seem to be under the impression that trans men can't be straight and sexual fetishistsThose articles explicitly stated they were cross dressing straight males who did not have a female identity outside their sexual crimes. In some cases they were straight up pedophiles. Most of those articles anon copied and pasted has nothing to do with trans, crossdressers, or bathrooms at all.
>If transgenders were allowed to enter the women's restroom all a rapist would need to do is identify as a woman.WHAT. They'd still be committing a crime, shitlord.
>There is no way to differentiate between a trans woman and a crossdresser. Oh my god, it's like talking to a retarded brick wall.
No. 182434
>>182432>There is no way to differentiate between a trans woman and a crossdresser. Oh my god, it's like talking to a retarded brick wall.
Not that anon and genuine question-how would you identify a non passing transwoman and a crossdresser?
No. 182437
>>182434>non passing transwoman and a crossdresser?The transwoman will tell you it identifies as a woman.
A crossdresser will tell you they have sexual fantasies and put on performances but identify as a man.
Do you think investigators are retarded and wrote "crossdressing man" without actually knowing or questioning said criminal? Clearly they know the difference between labeling someone trans and crossdressing, as there were trans criminals in those articles.
No. 182438
>>182433u stupid? so all trans people aren't really trans until they come out? lmao they become trans only at that moment?
and idk what they have to lose, on one hand you have an anon saying MTT aren't afraid to use men's bathrooms and just want to pee in lady ones to validate their gender feels, but then you got other anons saying they are afraid to look trans in mens bathrooms so they need to use womens (even though women assault and rape more women in bathrooms than men do apparently!) because of fear of violence or ~outing~ themselves is dangerous
i mean i'd just like a simple consensus at this point, why is it MTT want to go to women's bathroom? fear or violence/outing or just for validation?
No. 182440
>>182438>so all trans people aren't really trans until they come out? They're not trans aka "transitioning" until they want and know they identify as the opposite sex and make changes to themselves to do it.
A man can be gay for years but realize he's actually a lesbian trapped in a male's body and starts hormone therapy.
>why is it MTT want to go to women's bathroom?Because they seriously identify as women. It would be like someone telling you, as a woman, to go to the man's bathroom because you don't look feminine enough to enter the women's bathroom. You know you're a female, but someone else is denying you your identity because of physical characteristics.
No. 182442
>>182437Goodness it was a fucking question i was asking as a general question not in regards to the articles.
I am on collarspace where a lot of the crossdressers insist they are trans but do not have dismorphia and have no intention of transitioning. I wanted to get another perspective clearly.
No. 182443
>>182440i don't agree that just because a male "identifies" as a woman, that makes him one. identifying with a goose doesn't make him one, either.
can a man start hormone therapy, have surgery, and cross dress? sure, whatever, i don't care, but that doesn't mean he is magically a woman. why would it?
being a woman isn't an identity, anon. it's a physical reality. trans people have a mental illness that makes them think they are trapped in the wrong body. That doesn't make it true anymore than a schizophrenic person thinking they are being tapped by the FBI makes it true.
both sets of people deserve help and support and no discrimination, but it isn't society's job to validate the delusions of the mentally unwell.
No. 182447
>>182443>i don't agree that just because a male "identifies" as a woman, that makes him one.Yeah most trans tend to go through years of hormone therapy, plastic surgery, sexual reassignment surgery, and psychological therapy. Not just say they're women yet continue to be men.
>i don't care, but that doesn't mean he is magically a woman. why would it?If he talks, thinks, and looks like one how would you be able to tell the difference?
Plenty of women look, talk, and sound like men, do you assume they're men? Why?
No. 182450
>>182447anon, let me ask you a very simple question
who has more in common with women: a transgender male or a butch lesbian? one looks masculine, but is female, one looks feminine but is male.
trans males can live however they want, but they aren't females. it isn't dehumanizing them to recognize this fact. unless you consider being male to be dehumanizing, in which case, that's your and their beef, not mine.
No. 182453
>>182445>TERFOh well, there's gotta be lines drawn in the sand somewhere.
To me it's different if someone doesn't have money for hormones or surgeries but makes a collective effort to present and talk like their identifying gender.
As opposed to someone like Chris Chan who only does it for attention, barely acts female, and makes no real effort to transition.
>>182450>a transgender male or a butch lesbian?Depends. Some butch lesbians insist they have nothing in common with most other women besides clits, and openly despise mainstream femininity.
>trans males can live however they want, but they aren't females. it isn't dehumanizing them to recognize this fact. That's not the dehumanizing part. One can acknowledge they were born as a certain sex but still identify as a certain gender.
The dehumanizing part comes in when people tie issues like bathrooms directly to sex, without considering that in some situations it is appropriate to make exceptions based on identity ie. a biological man talks, looks, acts, and has made hormonal transition to be like a woman and wouldn't disturb other women in the bathroom by being there.
No. 182455
>>182453>Oh well, there's gotta be lines drawn in the sand somewhere.The issue is, is there are a lot of people identifying as trans who have a sexual fetish and a lot of people cannot tell the difference.
Furthermore you have these people decrying they are being oppressed for not being allowed to carry out their fetish in public. If this is so pressing for transpeople why not have a go at the people trying to pass off their fetish as being trans rather than everyone else who understandably cannot tell the difference.
No. 182456
>>182455>is there are a lot of people identifying as trans who have a sexual fetish and a lot of people cannot tell the differenceJust because the definitions are complicated doesn't mean we tie them in altogether. Would a rational person's reaction be to oversimplify the whole thing?
>decrying they are being oppressed for not being allowed to carry out their fetish in publicSexually charged fetishes don't belong in public or outside designated districts.
There are transpeople who are sure as hell pissed at people who aren't truly transitioning.
No. 182459
>>182456> Would a rational person's reaction be to oversimplify the whole thing? So bascially you are just insulting people for not being psychic and not knowing about this stuff?
>Sexually charged fetishes don't belong in public or outside designated districts. Thank you captain obvious.
No. 182462
>>182459>So bascially you are just insulting people for not being psychic and not knowing about this stuff?No.
>>182458>Most MTT do NOT get bottom surgery.Does that invalidate the hormone therapy, psychotherapy, and/or plastic surgeries they get?
>There is no right or wrong way to look or act to be a womanMainstream media would like to have a word with you.
No. 182463
>>182453>Depends. Some butch lesbians insist they have nothing in common with most other women besides clits, and openly despise mainstream femininity. so you think mainstream femininity is what trans males and your average woman have in common?
butch lesbians can hate it all they want, it doesn't make them less female (since make up and dresses and other feminine things do not make someone female) and doesn't make a trans male any more female just because he likes them.
it seems really regressive to me to assign behaviors and likes and interests to femaleness and maleness. i can't believe nowadays it is lauded as progressive, but isn't any surprise considering how gendered society has become recently; kids toys were never this gendered in the past.
how about, for just one small example of something females have in common that trans males never will: some women, which includes trans females and butch lesbian, can get raped and pregnant. No trans male, no matter how much he passes or doesn't, will ever need an abortion. Period. Will every female ever need an abortion? No, but no trans male can. ever. that's why it's a woman's health issue. Post menopausal women (or sterile women) don't try and shut down women's reproductive health issues, but you better believe trans males do, because it excludes them.
No. 182469
>>182463>so you think mainstream femininity is what trans males and your average woman have in common? Seems like it. Maybe you should ask a trans.
>it doesn't make them less female (since make up and dresses and other feminine things do not make someone female)Biologically female.
But no, many butch females really hate associating with traditional female characteristics like having interests in makeup and dresses. They dress and act like men.
And don't act like gender norms don't shape your judgement of who is male and who is female.
If some butch les looked nothing like a woman, you'd assume they were a man. It wouldn't matter to you what genitals they had in the pants because you wouldn't be able to tell. To you they are a man despite being a woman.
>it seems really regressive to me to assign behaviors and likes and interests to femaleness and malenessBut you do. But media does. But society does. That's the truth of the matter, you even admit things are gendered yet it surprises you still.
>No trans male, no matter how much he passes or doesn't, will ever need an abortion.You mean trans woman? Fine, but you're stretching far to imply that has anything to do with the trans woman being able to use the women's bathroom. Even if some bitch was against abortion I'd still let her go to the bathroom.
>>182464So they can't like traditionally feminine things like dresses, makeups, perfumes, etc. because you think that makes them fake?
>>182465We've been over this.
>>182466>You need to do some research on the community you're so vehemently defending.Why should these middled aged autogynephilia types dictate that a transitioning person can't go use their identifying bathrooms? Who decided that these types of people were also "trans"? Whatever definitions have changed in the past few years is shit people seem to be making up.
No. 182470
>>182469Alternatively, who gets to dictate that they're not trans? A trans woman is anyone who identifies with the social category of women. Not someone who hates their penis, not someone who takes estrogen. Penises are female now and a woman is anyone who feels like one.
>>182467I think that's giving it too much credit. It sounds like your garden variety MRA.
No. 182474
>>182469>Seems like it. Maybe you should ask a trans. Oh I know it is why most consider themselves "women" because they liked pink as kids etc. i just wanted to confirm if that's why you also believe that's what makes them women. Sad to find out it is.
>And don't act like gender norms don't shape your judgement of who is male and who is female.Gender is different for every culture out there; it is considered the height of femininity in some cultures to stretch their earlobes. If you think that is repulsive, does that mean, in that society, you are a male? So, there are many different ways that society's perception of gender says you can be an ideal woman, but only one way to biologically be one (born female). i wonder what the easiest and simplest and most logical one to use would be….
>But you do. But media does. But society does. That's the truth of the matter, you even admit things are gendered yet it surprises you still.I don't actually. I male can like dresses and make up and pink and anything he wants. I don't care or mind or am offended. I become skeptical when he thinks these interests mean he is a "woman trapped in a man's body".
I pointed out how incredibly gendered society is becoming; the 70s, for instance, were not so gendered as far as interests and kids toys. Boys often had long hair, kids played with unisex toys. Hell, in the past boys used to be associated with pink. I think this incredible divison among the sexes is leading to this explosion of trans kids; oh mom says I can't like cars and math as a girl? guess I'm a boy! Kids don't have the critical thinking skills to see how ridiculous this is, but you are presumably an adult and should see how crazy it is and sounds.
>You mean trans woman? Fine, but you're stretching far to imply that has anything to do with the trans woman being able to use the women's bathroom. Even if some bitch was against abortion I'd still let her go to the bathroom.I'm implying trans males don't belong in sex segrated spaces with women because… they are male. that's it.
>So they can't like traditionally feminine things like dresses, makeups, perfumes, etc. because you think that makes them fake? they can like whatever they want, but it doesn't make them female to like those things.
>We've been over this. Have we? Why are dicks and nuts considered female? As long as they're in a dress and make up?
>Why should these middled aged autogynephilia types dictate that a transitioning person can't go use their identifying bathrooms? Who decided that these types of people were also "trans"? Whatever definitions have changed in the past few years is shit people seem to be making up.Because they are the MAJORITY and are the ones leading activism in the public sphere. They decided that all the criteria you mentioned above is bigoted gate keeping. they are the ones that have gotten male murderers transferred to female prisons because of their gender identity claims (Laverene Cox and synthia blast, anyone?)
These people are big and well funded and politically mobile.
>>182471I'm sorry, point out where anyone said every male and every trans male ever that ever existed is a criminal. Generalizations exist because intelligent people can realize that they aren't being
literal. All I have seen is that men have higher rates of crimes against women, and trans males, being male (surprise!), have the same criminal patterns. Neither belong in female bathrooms, prisons, sporting, domestic violence shelters, etc.
No. 182477
>>182473would you shower in a locker room with a guy? change in front of one? should a young girl have to? again, this is more than bathrooms. bathrooms are just the one that are being used as the proof that all of this is "innocent" ("they just want to pee!").
What is the innocent reason for wanting teen boys who say they are girls in locker rooms and showers with naked teen girls?
No. 182501
>>181863Y E S
TRANNIES BTFO
No. 182502
>>182495Except you can't constitutionally make discrimitory laws so I guess you'll just have to suck it up. Trans people are going to get the rights they deserve to exist normal lives whether you like it or not.
There's nothing discrimitory about saying "I want to use the bathroom associated with the gender I feel." There is discrimination when you say "I want a certain group to stay out of certain public spaces."
No. 182505
>>181898This.
Like Jesus fucking Christ, look up statistics on how often people are actually assaulted by trans people in bathrooms from a legitimate source (conservative blogs don't count) before opening your ignorant as fuck mouth. It is an actual fact that more right wing politicians have assaulted people in bathrooms than transwomen. No seriously, look it up.
No. 182506
>My stance on trans people in general
I don't believe at all that being "transgender" is actually a thing. I will never understand why gender can't simply be chalked up to what's between your legs and nothing else. Like, why the fuck can't you just dress in traditional female attire, but still acknowledge you are a man or vice versa? Your gender is defined as what your genitalia is, not some made up definition from gender roles and stereotypes, no matter how much you might want it to be.
>My stance on the bathroom issue
Despite what I said above, I firmly believe these individuals should have the right to use the bathroom of their choice. Despite the absolutely retarded fear mongering from the right, there is factually no reason to believe these people pose a safety risk. Anyone who believes this should invest more of their time fighting coed college bathrooms, since cis males are infinitely more likely to assault a woman in a bathroom than a transwoman, and the fact they're showering makes it much more dangerous. Yet, for some strange reason (blatant trasnphobia) you never hear the right fighting against coed bathrooms in college dorms, even though it would be much more logical to do so (not that I, personally, think this- I'm just saying. Also, several other big reasons:
>anti-trans people say they don't want them peeing with their "little girls"… explain to me how peeing with your little boys is better
>how is peeing with a transman more comfortable than a transwoman? Because that's what would happen, you'd end up taking a shit next to a bearded guy with no tits. Personally, I would take a transwoman any day.
>the physical safety of the transwoman is just as important as yours and much more likely to be compromised if they go into a male bathroom
>there's already been tons of instances of ciswomen being denied bathroom access due to being even the slightest bit androgynous, flat chested, or man-faced, so if you think this is an issue that only effects a niche mentally ill group, you are fucking retarded, seeing as this is an obvious outcome of such a law
No. 182513
>>182452But like… So? If he goes in, pees, and leaves, why do you care? If he's loitering, exposing his privates, assaulting you, filming you, harassing you, call the cops or a store manager. Him EXISTING near you is not a crime. You can't make a law against his existence. What does his presence do to you besides
trigger you? Why can't you separate sexual deviants from transgender?
No. 182528
>>182524A sports ring is not a public space. I believe most sports have certain qualifiers and regulations but are private organizations.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/charlotteobserver.relaymedia.com/amp/news/politics-government/article70255967.htmlWe keep going over this. Being trans is not the problem. Being a sexual deviant and criminal and willing to exploit laws to hurt others is the fucking problem.
Public spaces should be safe for everyone. Idk how the hell you can even argue that but good job on finding a way.
No. 182549
File: 1488203910354.gif (1.5 MB, 320x180, rfFWukr.gif)
>>182524You mean like
>their own homesYour home is your safe space.
Or your dorm is your safe space. Let the public be fucked and horrid like it's always been.
If they're homeless then there are churches.
No. 182571
>>182528Never addressed the second link or any of the cases of trans males being put in female spaces(taking jobs or educational grants. Some of the MTF even want a say in woman's health issues). And no a ring isn't public it is still a space for woman to compete on equal footing. A place for woman. Never said being trans was illegal they just deserve to be with woman.
>>182562Because they totally don't have skin in the game if it was proven other wise.
No. 182589
>>182553What kind of spaces do you propose, though? I honestly don't see 4+ bathrooms ever becoming the norm in any kind of institution.
Besides, won't your average transperson be unwilling to concede that they're =not= a man or woman but something else?
No. 182610
>>182549>>182515>>182513>>182505Who the fuck links you crazy trannies & libtard cocksuckers here?
Seriously. Where do you come from? Halfchan's lgbt?? Tumblr??
No. 182625
>>182623If you capitalize sage, it doesn't work.
Saying 'kek' doesn't make you look any less new.
No. 182633
>>182123No. Also why would incels share my opinions?
>>182124If you've been kicked, you're probably a man so? who cares?
No. 182683
>>182639Men aren't really threatened when people come into the men's room; it isn't the same. I mean, MtFs might get shit for being there, but I gather that's why they want to use women's rooms in the first place.
FtMs are fine as long as they don't do that "hover" bullshit and end up pissing all over the seat. Seatpiss isn't something men usually have to deal with unless there was a little kid in there before you.
I guess if you're FtM it's probably kinda scary to be in a sketch gas station bathroom at night. Hard to imagine what the answer to that is, because cisdudes aren't in the habit of figuring out whether the guy by the sink is a creep. He's not a threat unless he's going to try to kick your ass or something, which doesn't happen.
Maybe the best solution is just to let the nonconformers use the women's room. idk.
No. 182710
>>182639Most toilets in my country are urinals aside from like, 1 stall so I can't even imagine how the fakemen are going to piss in most men's bathrooms aside from using a she-wee but yeah, it's up to them and if they said they don't feel comfortable with a biowoman being in there, that's their choice.
>>182637Your friend is a jerk. I was also scolded by a friend when I told her about this transwoman at my gym who I don't really feel all that comfortable with (especially since he's like 6'2 and loves to walk around naked showing off his tucked up nothing down there). I said I felt a little weirded out when he called me a pretty little thing once at the make up counter when I was doing my hair and she was like 'It was just a compliment from a fellow girl! Take it like that' Yeah, no.
Oddly, I'm not fearful of most men unless they're really big and in my space but transwomen men really skeeve me out despite all this 'we should feel solidarity with them!' I guess it's because most of them do not pass and feel more like someone trying to wear the skin of a woman rather than actually being one.
No. 182728
>>182639They can do what they want but as a biological woman, I'm thinking more about men trying to invade our spaces than the other way around, since it affects me. I know many trans men who are quiet, dress casually and genuinely do just want to live a normal life, I never see them complaining about "safe spaces" or how they have a right to men's only areas (although there are plenty on Tumblr like that, haven't met any in person who act like that so I'd imagine all the tumblrina fakebois probably just dress like women in every day life). Not to mention men don't have any reason to fear biological women (in regards to rape, violence, public humiliation) so I guess they don't care? If I were a trans guy I'd probably be terrified of being raped in a men's locker room but if that's what they want, w.e.
On the flip side, from my experience all m2fs are absolutely insane, usually austists who do it for fetish reasons. Don't want to fit in, I think they get their ideas on what women are from trashy tv and drag queen acts. Any time I've seen them in bathrooms they have to slip into conversation that they're trans and are usually talking shit about "other women", making fun of their appearances. There are much higher numbers of trannies assaulting women in women's only spaces than the other way around.
No. 182734
>>182710Haha don't worry, I stopped talking to her a long time ago. With your story, once again women are supposed to feel uncomfortable over trannies feeling uncomfortable because we'll always be seen as lesser, even to these SJW types who think they're so progressive. I see Tumblr SJWism as the exact opposite of feminism.
Tbh I'd be creeped out even if a woman called me a "pretty little thing", that's so inappropriate for anyone to say but at least I don't have the added fear of guessing if she's going to sexually assault me or not.
No. 182743
>>182734>she's going to sexually assault me or notYou've never had a lesbian come onto you unsolicited before? I've dealt with this shit at least twice in public settings, once in the bathroom. A few times in high school by girl bullies but I guess we don't count those here.
Everyone would do better to not assume bathrooms are safe spaces in the first place. A perverted straight man can just as easily follow you into one, the social stigma doesn't matter to predators. The only guarantee of complete security is a single toilet bathroom with a lock.
No. 182762
>>182743In my experience, no that has never happened to me. I don't consider women's only spaces "safe spaces" it's just I don't want to attract female fetishists and even men pretending to be trans into places where women are changing, peeing etc. by telling them it's their right to be there and that they're welcome to join us just to validate their identity.
Like someone said above, they should be called "penis rooms" and "vagina rooms".
No. 182779
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No. 182782
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>>182781Well brace yourself theres more
No. 182789
>>182782I feel so bad for that boy even though he seems like an awful person already. Isn't he being exploited for fame and attention?
And that other person… God. Who's that in the first place?
No. 182791
>>182787You seem absolutely
triggered by something that doesn't even have to do with you (if you're absolutely not bothered by men being given permission to use the same bathroom as you), so of course you're suspicious. I've never pointed fingers in the thread but I have to be the annoying anon who says … tranny detected. Try harder, tranny
No. 182793
>>182791Spoiler alert, female. I am upset that transgender people will read this thread and believe the rest of their life will be intolerance and judgment. Do you need a time stamp of my vagina :)
Also not bothered by men in bathrooms or changing rooms. Absolutely bothered by assault, rape, and harassment.
No. 182802
>>182799Please stop samefagging, it's stupidly obviously when you unnecessarily sage every post you make, and do it wrong in the exact same way every time.
And not caring about someones feelings, mentally ill or not doesn't give you the moral high ground, it makes you a prick. Compassion costs you nothing.
No. 182803
>>182786Nice strawman and spurge out there.
Care to add some more over blown dramatic dialogue into the mix? You're very good at it.
No. 182811
>>182802I'm sure that this is going to be quite a surprise but I'm not the only in the thread who thinks this way, anon. Sorry for ruining it. Also, you're right about compassion not costing a damn thing. That's I stick for women in this one. Their peace to use a public bathroom with safety is already so relative, why would I fuck things up even more by giving perverts a green light to use said bathroom with them because 3% of the population thinks they belong to the other sex? Unfortunately, things are not that simple and girls and women's safety isn't a joke.
If you think you pass well enough to use the bathroom without freaking people out, then fine. Maybe (actually, most likely) will know you're a tranny, but wont do anything.
No one is going to check if you have a ~neo vagina~ or a dick anyway. I think this way not necessarily because I dislike trans people or anything like that, but because it makes it
okay for perverted men to enter women's bathrooms and feel that they have a right to be there.
No. 182816
>>182811I said nothing about how you speak, I realise that there's more than one person who has similar viewpoints to you in this thread. I'm talking about how you in particular are samefagging, and how obvious that is to everyone.
And I don't think anyone is arguing that perverts should be allowed to do illegal shit, you have the exact same legal protections in place with these laws in place as before. If anyone acts inappropriately, regardless of gender, they should be removed, as they already are, which is a perfectly fine protection in the vast majority of cases.
If those people are perverted but still are just using the bathrooms normally and privately, who gives a shit? You could just as easily have a perverted woman using the bathroom, but what goes on in someones head is none of anyones business but their own.
If what we value most is safety, as was said earlier, we should be pushing for single toilet bathrooms with a locked door. That way you don't need to segregate based off of gender, and there's really no risk for anyone involved. Personally I think this is the best solution.
With that being said, trans people are absolutely a vulnerable group, and I don't think there's really any reason to bar them from using the rooms. There's barely any examples of them doing the wrong thing (I saw the list earlier, and the person pointing out that the vast majority weren't at all trans, and a good amount weren't even in bathrooms), and as far as I can see, no real data to support them overall committing more violent crime.
I think it's important as well to note that when you start going off "Are you passing or not", that you end up just perpetuating the stereotype that you have to look a certain way to be a woman, which I think is much, much more damaging for women overall (particularly youth) than the alternative.
No. 182828
>>182816>when you start going off "Are you passing or not", that you end up just perpetuating the stereotype that you have to look a certain way to be a woman,Think about what you're saying here, trans people should not have to pass to use the bathroom of their preferred gender? So what's stopping some man (not a mtf, just some regular guy) using the women's bathroom under the pretense of being trans, and then defending himself by saying he doesn't need to pass to be trans? These days literally all it takes is saying 'I identify as a woman' for a man to officially be a woman who deserves access to women's spaces, and you're not allowed to question it, apparently.
It makes no sense that you're worried about perpetuating gender stereotypes when that's all trans people do, anyway. It's impossible to know what being a certain gender feels like on the inside, all they can do is guess at it and present themselves with superficial gender traits.
No. 182835
>>182828Look at the other side. Should women have to be feminine to use the womans bathroom? If not, how do you tell that masculine woman isn't actually just a non-passing tranny? How do you tell that today?
And no, come on, lets not strawman here. You need to do a lot more than just go "oh I identify as a woman now" for anyone to think you're trans, especially if it ever reached a courtroom.
And you're missing my points. I'm not talking about gender stereotypes overall, I'm talking specifically about the idea that you need to have a certain sort of looks to be considered a woman. In a situation where you do want to present yourself as a woman (or a man), using traits most commonly associated to that particular gender is the easiest way to do that, and be more likely to be accepted as that. 0.3% of the population doing that is a hell of a lot less damaging than people outright calling out women who aren't conventionally attractive as actually being hidden men. Can you imagine how damaging that would be to a developing mind? We already have issues with magazines and celebrities presenting unrealistic body images, imagine if we added people outright saying that if you don't meet a certain look, you aren't even a woman. Surely you can see how that would be worse?
As to how it feels to be a certain gender, I don't think anyone can really say that it would feel a certain way for sure, we've all only ever experienced one. It's not like people have experienced what it feels like mentally to be a biological guy and a woman and then gone "Yeah it's the same".
Not an area I think that conclusions can be drawn in either way.
No. 182865
>>182835Not that anon and I dont think this is a fair comparison, very few women look masculine no matter how much they do not conform to femininity. Like I know you think this is your gotcha moment but actually its really shitty.
Also the points you make are very general and much about societies views which dont change
>imagine if we added people outright saying that if you don't meet a certain look, you aren't even a womanthis already happens to women. Look I dont agree with it personally, but thats the way it is and if transwomen want to be accepted in society and want to be treated as women do then society expects them to meet certain standards (i personally dont give a fuck) and im not talking super fem i mean like not having a beard (i have seen a lot of transwomen who dont even bother to hide that)
Its as if transwomen have this idea that being a woman is easy and its all frilly dresses and lipstick and then throw a wobbly when they experience a lot of negative things like stalking, sexual harassment and being expected to look a certain way. Like, congratulations you are now being treated like the average woman in society this is what you wanted but perhaps not expected because you had your rose tinted glasses on.
No. 182921
File: 1488529670499.png (1.54 MB, 1000x954, ee6.png)
>>182782>>182779Fuck trannies man
>>182793Quit being so defensive tranny
>I am upset that transgender people will read this thread and believe the rest of their life will be intolerance and judgmentRegardless of whether we bag on them or not they will face these things because they're fucking trannies quit being delusional.
>Do you need a time stamp of my vagina :) A birth certificate would suffice disgusting tranny fuck :^)
As it does with most methods of identification. You can't hide your dick under your umbilical cord.
RIP delusional mentality ill tranny :{
No. 182944
>>182865touching on this, I have seen very few MtF transitions that go well. More often than not, it's FtM transitions that blend into society and act how they want to be treated, as a man. MtF mostly treat it like they're better than women for wanting to be a woman but hardly put effort into it aside from dressing and wearing makeup like a middle schooler. It's as if they want the brownie points for TRYING and that's what makes them better, that's what gets them pity and attention.
I know a few FtM and once they decided they wanted to transition, they went full force into it and in every way look and act like a man. The MtF I've known just want to throw on some lipstick and stick-on earrings and get treated like they're a hero for letting their dick fall out their skirt.
No. 182945
>>182939They already make "Family" bathrooms in most places that is essentially a unisex bathroom that everyone can use, even those in wheelchairs and with babies etc.
Building a huge new bathroom for "all sex" people isn't going to help. Just throw in two unisex bathrooms for places (which is essentially just a sink and toilet, baby changing station and handrails near the toilet) and you're fine. People are making a shitstorm out of labels and then turn around and scream about being labeled themselves.
No. 182965
>>182945Pretty much this. There shouldn't be a shitstorm. Transgenders are estimated to make up less then .07% of the population which is pretty small. An extra bathroom is just stupid.
Don't know why they can't just shit and leave. It's a bathroom. You don't need linger. Same for vice versa. Think you see a tranny? Just piss and leave. If they're doing something funky. Report them.
>>182793Spoiler alert. This is lolcow. Not exactly the safe space for anyone. See: hartley hooligans thread.
>>182779Fucking this. Hate this bitch. Of all the trannies she could defend, it had to be this sicko.
No. 183039
>>183022Yes, that's exactly what they want. It's already happening, this is Fallon Fox who is a m2f trans MMA fighter.
I tried to find footage of her knocking out Tamikka Brents but all the videos on YouTube have been mysteriously taken down…Tamikka suffered from an concussion and had to get 7 staples in her head. After the fight she said that Fallon was much stronger than any woman she's ever fought and that she should not be allowed to fight women. Another top MMA fighter Ronda Rousey said she has an unfair advantage also and she also seemed really well-informed when she spoke about it too. A few wrestlers have outright refused to fight Fallon.
Video related but it's not the Tamikka match, unfortunately.
No. 183040
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yup. these are the "transphobic" girls who will get kicked out of the team if they refuse to undress in front of or take showers with the lovely "transgirl" Robert “Gabrielle” Ludwig.
schoolgirls have been staging walk outs over the bathroom bill but everybody has been ignoring them and shutting down all discussion as evil girls oppressing their male "sisters" by not wanting to be subject to sexual harassment.
not only does the bathroom bill have nothing to do with "needing to pee", but this undermines all sex based protection women have, in female sports, in female rape shelters, in female domestic violence therapy groups, lesbian organisations, female workers in general, female health care, female prisoners, female homeless shelters etc.
all women who speak up about this are shut down bc women now have "female privilege" over men who wear make up.
No. 183041
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>>183039Found an image for you, it's post fight, every other seem to be disparaging off the internet.
it's necessary to point out that Fallon belongs to a group of transwomen who target lesbians like Tamikka Brents specifically because they consider female homosexuality to be an act of oppression against straight males who identify as "trans lesbians".
after this fight there was a flood of online posts from these transwomen glorifying Fallon's attempt at manslaughter as "justice served".
Fallon also advocates for the creation of a registry that will list all prominent lesbians, feminists and women in science for transwomen to target for physical assault because these women are all "transphobic" for recognising that being a female human is a biological reality and not an abstract social construct like Santa that men can identify their way into by putting on a costume.
No. 183044
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What do you guys think about posts like these?
No. 183053
>>183044>I's might be murdered in the streets!!!!!If people seriously thought this would be a problem, then they wouldn't do it.
They're doing it because the chances of it are lower than they've ever been, and because they're being told it's the right thing to do.
No. 183055
>>183054Ya'll act like Fallon was a huge hulking man before surgery and hormones. She was 5'7" before all this and is post op and been taking hormones for more than two years. A doctor already reviewed her charts and confirmed her muscle and bone density to be akin to a woman. Like no, these sports don't just send testosterone ladden six foot tall men into rings. They have qualifiers.
The real story here should be why the hell that high school ftm student who had been taken testosterone was made to wrestle on the girls team.
No. 183056
>>183055Because her school or whatever made her do it. He wanted to go against the guys but the didn't allow him.
It was in Texas or someplace like that
No. 183069
>>183055Tamikka had to get 7 staples in her head because this greedy fuck saw that there was more money in wrestling women.
Are you even fucking reading the thread?
No. 183070
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>>183055>Ya'll act like Fallon was a huge hulking man before surgery and hormones.Fallon Fox, a 38-year-old ex-military man.
No. 183072
"A transsexual killer who tried to rape a woman must be moved to a female prison because holding her with men breaches her rights, a judge has ruled
Less than a week after her release on licence two years later, "A" attacked a shop assistant, forcing her into a back room, tied her up with a suspender belt and tried to rape her.
She was given a life sentence for that offence under a "two strikes" system following the manslaughter conviction.
Her legal team said the attempted rape was closely linked to her obsession with becoming a woman and her intense frustration at the authorities' refusal to help her qualify for full gender reassignment surgery."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6138325/Transsexual-prisoner-wins-right-to-be-in-female-prison.html No. 183073
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delicate transladies never harmed anybody!
"Allison Woolbert, founder of the “Terf Tracker”, “Trans Violence Tracking Portal” and “Transgender Human Rights Institute” resigned today when his criminal past as a violent sex offender was revealed by fellow transwomen Wesley “Laurelai” Bailey and Harrison “Melissa” Savage. Bailey and Savage formerly assisted Woolbert in his cyber-stalking projects, where they “doxxed” and harassed women they suspected might disbelieve that men such as themselves can “become women” by merely proclaiming themselves as such.
They targeted women, in particular lesbians and feminists, by logging those who “liked” posts on Facebook that the men disagreed with. They then posted what they believed to be the personal information about the women on various websites created to facilitate criminal stalking and harassment against them by fellow “transwomen”. Their purpose was to terrorize women who might believe in the idea that sex-roles are culturally constructed. In so doing they hoped to frighten women from participating in the public square of society and silence discussion of the way sex-roles (“gender”) is harmful to women and girls."
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/01/08/terf-tracker-allison-woolbert-outed-as-violent-sex-offender-resigns-citing-his-unconscionable-behavior-as-a-human-being/ No. 183074
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https://allisonslaw.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/child-rapist-is-arrested-and-found-to-be-living-as-a-woman/I am gonna stop for today. There are literally hundreds of cases per year of transwomen being violent towards women and children - from harassment, physical violence to rape and murder but we are supposed to just suck it up and learn to live with it and even risk losing our jobs if we dare "misgender" them or feel unsafe having them with us in female and children's spaces because calling a male a male is the "real violence" here.
No. 183089
>>182865Seriously? Your argument for why the issue of masculine looking women getting caught up in this not mattering is "Well there's not many of them"? You get that that exact same logic should apply to trans people, right? Both are relatively small groups, though I'd argue there's a lot more masculine looking women than trans people.
>this already happens to womenWhere does this happen? You see attitudes that they might not be good enough, but I've never seen someone claim that you literally aren't a woman unless you look a certain way.
But yeah, I agree that there is a level of needing to meet certain standards as a trans person. You can't help if you just look like a masculine chick despite being on hormones and making movements towards transitioning, but if you're not even making any real effort to pass then it starts to become an issue, and I'd argue there should be specifications put in place that you do have to meet a basic level of taking being trans seriously to be considered it.
I think the dresses and lipstick thing is much more about presenting yourself as female than thinking that's all being a woman is, too. They desperately want people to see them as women, and the simplest way to do that is by living up to certain stereotypes that are associated with women.
I don't really think that going "wow they should just deal with the harassment" is a great argument either, no-one should have to deal with that, regardless of what they're born as. Biological women shouldn't have to deal with being harassed either, and I think anyone who's being harassed should make an effort to speak out and attempt to stop that sort of stuff.
>>182927Probably because they're just shitty people, and shitty people exist in every single group you look at. No real reason to defend someone like that.
Cherrypicking shitty people and trying to use it as proof of a whole group is a really bad argument.
>>182965Pretty much agree with this. There's no need to be a drama. If someone's acting inappropriate in the bathroom, they should be reported, regardless of their gender. If you're walking around public bathrooms looking at people to try to see if they're trans so you can report them for it, you're probably the one making people uncomfortable.
>>183069You get that professional fighters get fucked up all the time, right? She didn't get fucked up because of some unfair advantage (which has been medically determined), she got fucked up because she was a worse fighter than Fallon, and lost.
This is the most forced controversy I've seen in a long while honestly.
As I said though, the easiest solution is to just do what heaps of places already do, and make bathrooms single toilet rooms that don't have gender specifications.
No. 183091
>>18307682% of trans people have personality disorders, 57% have narcissistic personality disorders. The rate in the general population is 1%.
This is not a case of "there are shitty people in every group".
That explains a lot, narcissists have no empathy so transwomen do not care that their whim changing of laws is erasing half the human population and making it impossible for women to have sex based protections, that's also why they ignore stalk and attack women who speak up about male violence. They are simply incapable of registering women's pain exists.
Narcissists have a desperate need for everything to be about them and everybody to serve them so they derail all feminist conversations and cry about their penis being ignored in female circles and say lesbians are being evil for being homosexual and "excluding them".
Narcissists become abusive and demand more and more servitude from their victims and it's never enough no matter how far we bend. First we had to call them "she", then we couldn't call ourselves women but "cis women", in UK we can't call ourselves mothers because it hurts their feelings so they make women call themselves "birthing vessels", in US we can't talk about our vaginas because it hurts their feelings, we are called "bleeders" in Planned Parenthood menstruation articles instead of women because transwomen don't menstruate so it's transphobic of us to do it and call ourselves women at the same time. It's not enough for lesbians to call them transwomen, lesbians have to force themselves to fuck them too in order to validate their feelings or else.
They commit the same rates and the same kinds of violence against women and children that "cis men" do but we are supposed to bury our heads in the sand because it hurts their feelings to point out what they're doing.
All of these are mentally unstable entitled men who force women to submit to their dominance display.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/ No. 183109
>>183091I think you're drawing a huge lot of false conclusions there. Having a personality disorder doesn't turn someone into some sort of sociopath stereotype automatically, most people with stuff like NPD are just sad insecure people who've convinced themselves they're much more worthwhile than they generally are.
And did you read the study, or just the abstract? Other studies found only 19% with personality disorders at all, and another at 40%. Others have shown BPD as the most common PD presenting in GID patients rather than NPD.
Now, lets talk about some of the issues they brought up
>The validity and reliability of the MCMI-II in GID patients were not evaluated; therefore, the findings should be interpreted with caution.
>In our study,there was no normal control and this is considered one of the limitations of this study.
>This study also faced other limitations. Patients in our research may be imperfect samples of all GID patients. In Iran, GID patients are guided to Tehran Institute of Psychiatry when they request a new official identity or sex reassignment surgery (SRS). Consequently, samples in this study can be considered a sample of patients who have more psychiatric problems or more intense conflicts with their conceived identity
> Furthermore, although according to some studies there is a fair clinical concordance between the MCMI II and DSM-III-R criteria, some other studies showed that the MCMI II is not congruent with Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-III-R (29-31).Therefore, it is a limitation of our study that only the MCMI II test, which is a self-report You shouldn't act like a study with significant flaws in how it interviewed participants, and the population it drew from is somehow irrefutable proof of your agenda.
And come on, do you even honestly believe this
>their whim changing of laws is erasing half the human populationYou're talking like you're Alex Jones. Are trans people going to make the frogs gay anon?
No. 183113
>>183112It's males that commit the overwhelming majority of violent crimes against women so bringing up women who play pretend to be man is just derailing the topic.
The majority of FtMs are lesbians and girls with autism who have been brought up in strict homophobic/sexist environments whereas MtFs are majority straight males with autogynephilia and other dangerous mental issues.
Also - no men, gay or straight, have been raped by a FtM in any bathrooms or any other public space. Or murdered.
Like transwomen have done to women over and over again.
No. 183132
>>183089>she got fucked up because she was a worse fighterTamikka has won almost every match, how does that make her a "worse fighter". Have you even checked her record? Don't comment on things that you have no knowledge on.
Real women shouldn't have to suffer genuine injuries just because some tranny feelings are at risk. Men already dominate the sports world and now they're trying to inject themselves into women's sports. Fuck that.
No. 183174
>>183112I mean, I have no idea the actual numbers, but it's irrelevant.
They were acting like only the mtf trans people had these issues, when the study showed it in both populations.
Their whole point is bullshit though, because the study is massively flawed, for the reasons I mentioned already.
Same with mentioning that no men have been raped, rather than talking about sexual assaults, which is much more equal as far as legislation goes.
>>183132Is your argument "she's a pretty good fighter so therefore she was the better fighter here"?
It's been medically determined the trans person had absolutely no unfair advantage that we'd attribute to his biology as a man. She lost because she was the worse fighter, regardless of how she's done in the past.
You're trying to create a controversy here by ignoring the actual medical facts. The same as the person earlier with their study was trying to create a controversy by being incredibly biased about the conclusions they drew, and not even bothering to read the study.
Dishonesty helps no-one of either side. Trans people lying about shit doesn't help their cause, but doing the sort of shit you see in almost every single one of these threads (lying, misinterpreting medical data, flat out ignoring medical data, generalising over cherry picked examples) just makes people who are anti-trans look like extremists who shouldn't be listened to, regardless of any potential validity of their arguments.
No. 183209
>>183204It's due to the hormonal therapy a trans person undergoes essentially. The muscle mass wasn't the same as a normal guys, it wasn't outside the normal range for women. Someone explained this a bit earlier in the thread when it was first brought up.
Bone structure is a good point, but not the best, as you do see women in professional sports having bone structures that are much closer to that of a guys anyway. You can't call someones bone structure an unfair advantage purely because it's a result of gender, when other fighters have that same advantage while being born naturally women. Plus, in this case, there's no evidence of it, Fallon was 5'6 and built pretty much the same as her opponent, or at least reasonably closely to other fighters.
Ignoring the bias of the rest of the article, here's the first source I found with a named doctor talking about it, and the quote. Vice is shit most of the time, but the info here is solid.
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/fallon-fox-is-a-woman-get-over-it-925>Medical experts say no. Last year, Dr. Eric Vilain—director of the Institute for Society and Genetics at UCLA—examined Fallon’s medical records and pointed out that “male to female transsexuals have significantly less muscle strength and bone density, and higher fat mass, than males." She’s totally within the normal female range in terms of height, fitness, and strength
>Which is why, no doubt, the Association of Boxing Commissioners ruled last year that there is no advantage for trans fighters. And why the International Olympic Committee says it's OK for trans athletes to compete two years after they've had surgery.There's a reason that such important associations have agreed that there's no unfair advantage, and that's because the evidence out there shows there isn't.
Tamikka is just someone who lost a fight and is whining and looking for an excuse so she doesn't have to accept that she was just a worse fighter than her opponent.
If you want other sources I'm more than willing to look for them, as I said, that was just the first one to come up with a google search of the topic.
>>183207I mean, the olympic basketball team for my country has a biological woman who's 203cm tall and fucking massive, and a bunch of other women who easily break 6'. There's only three that don't actually.
Women like that exist naturally. Unless there's an unfair advantage being given by something like a higher muscle mass than what's realistically possible for a woman to achieve without chemical intervention of their own, there's no reason to complain.
We don't ban athletes because they have an advantage over someone else, the whole point of sports is making sure our athletes do have the advantage for whatever reason (hence why the womens basketball team is comprised nearly completely of super tall girls, and the mens team), it's making sure they don't have an advantage that breaks the rules.
If they did have the muscle mass of a guy, or something else that women can't replicate, you'd have a point. But they don't, and assuming they can demonstrate this, there shouldn't be an issue.
No. 183225
File: 1488908630297.png (91.7 KB, 400x336, gaysaretransphobic.png)
All this boils down to is that women have no right to say no males, by law too.
Us lesbians have been retreating back to the underground for a while now, we finally won the right to same sex marriage and now we are back to "sexuality is fluid, men say so" and "you have to suck dick or else you're transphobic".
Lesbian bars have been closing down all over America because straight males who call themselves lesbians have been threatening lawsuits for discrimination, lesbian organisations are now headed by straight males, university Gay support groups have been kicking lesbians out the moment we utter the word homosexual and online we are receiving death and rape threats from transwomen on the regular.
And we don't have the right to talk about it. Because talking about being violated by males is an act of violence now.
No. 183270
>>183225I'm so sorry anon. I agree with you, and it's horrifying to watch.
I spend so much time trying to think about how I can voice my concerns about this without being attacked and I just can't find a way, I can't even explore the topic with my friends. I want to be able to speak against this too whilst supporting fair rights for trans people, but especially as a white cis bi girl, I have no idea where to start. It doesn't feel possible at all.
No. 183278
>>183209He's a man who wants to beat up woman. Going through male puberty gives him an unfair advantage. Men should not be allowed in women's sports, it's incredibly unfair to female athletes
'm tired of this gender and sexuality crap. Gender isn't real. It's the idea you should do certain things and look a certain way because of your sex. Making more of them is counterproductive.
There's two sexes and you can't ever change your sex. Sometimes errors happen and people are born intersex but it's not some magical third sex, it's a variation on male or female and can usually be clearly classed as such. You either have a Y chromosome or you don't. And intersex people have repeatedly asked to stop being used as pawns in the trans argument.
There's no such thing as a male or female brain. This has been disproven multiple times. You can't be born with a "female brain" just like you can't be born with a "black brain"
Man and woman aren't genders, they're just terms for adult human male and adult human female like doe is adult female deer and buck is adult male deer.
Because sexuality is based on biological sex and there are only two of those and they are immutable, that makes 3 sexualities, 4 if you count a lack of sexuality.
Homosexuality, attraction exclusively to the same sex
Bisexuality, attraction to both sexes in any amount
Heterosexuality, attraction exclusively to the opposite sex
We should drop the T because it has nothing to do with sexuality and their movement is counterproductive to LGB anyways.
It's not all that hard
No. 183280
>>183278How does going through puberty give him an advantage? We've already demonstrated that as far as physical ability goes, there isn't, so what causes it?
And regardless of whether you believe trans people are right or not isn't relevant, even if it was all mental illness, transitioning is effective treatment, and as such it's something we do.
I agree it's stupid to put trans in the same word as LGB though, it's not the same and it's stupid to consider it to be.
You're getting into a pretty huge (and impossible to prove either way) argument about the validity of social structures there though, I don't think any of us really have the ability to prove our point either way there. People with a hell of a lot more education have been arguing about if something being a social construct makes it more or less valid as far as the human experience goes for a long ass time, we're not going to solve that debate in a single thread.
No. 183281
>>183225>"sexuality is fluid, men say so" I mean, it's mainly Tumblr sorts arguing that sort of shit, which is by and large a female community, poor point.
And what grounds would they have to discriminate on? Lesbian bars don't (and fucking shouldn't be able to even if they did) ban non-lesbians from entering, same as gay bars allow women and straight men in.
What support groups kicked lesbians out for saying the word homosexual? Why the hell would a homosexual support group kick people out for saying they're homosexual?
And yeah, cunts on the internet are retarded, shocker. Death threats are terrible, sure, but I mean, not only is "You should kill yourself" not a death threat, it's not at all credible. That's some Sarkeesian tier victimisation of yourself you've got going on there.
>Because talking about being violated by males is an act of violence now.Fucking what? The only places that don't encourage women to speak out about legitimate violence against them are shitholes like /r9k/ and /r/incels. No-one considers you saying you've been violated an act of violence, even morons on the internet don't.
That being said, you started your argument with
>All this boils down to is that women have no right to say no males, by law too. So I'm not surprised it was full of overly dramatic bullshit. Nowhere in the law does it say that women specifically can't say no to men, unless you're arguing about discrimination laws, which shockingly, don't leave women as victims, because they apply to everyone equally. You take away those laws and you're sure as fuck going to create a whole lot more issues than stopping you being able to have "No boys allowed" zones would.
No. 183286
>>183281Whenever anyone replies line-for-line like this, I assume it's that angry misogynist with no life who does it all the time
Judging by the content of the post, it probably is
No. 183287
>>183286Oh shit anon, you caught me now, how will I ever recover?
Do you seriously think using the quote function to highlight a few parts of their post is somehow weird? How fucking new are you?
No. 183290
File: 1488982128182.jpg (346.17 KB, 792x1078, malefemaleskeletons.jpg)
>>183280Sexual dimorphism in female and male skeletons, exposure to testosterone, bone density, etc. Also don't you think it's unfair men are allowed to compete in women's sports while real women with high testosterone have to take anti androgens?
No. 183291
>>183280Since you're such an idiot let me put it like this:
If you have a y chromosome you're male and therefore you aren't allowed to compete in women's sports (aka humans with no Y chromosome)
No. 183293
>>183281What about the Vancouver Women's Library incident? Where a group of men (or mostly men) vandalized it and became violent at the launch party on the grounds that it was "terfy" and later returned to vandalize the outside of the building and steal the sign
Or all the men patrolling around the entrance to michfest with spears and weapons?
No. 183294
>>183290Bone density I gave a citation explaining wasn't an issue, and as for skeletal issues, those are general trends, not rules.
These women are much closer to a male skeleton than a stereotypical female one, we don't ban athletes for their frames.
And your point about test levels I'd agree with (though I don't think there are actually any rules about natural test levels from what I've seen, I could be wrong though, and likely am), but it's not an issue here. This is a fully transitioned individual, they aren't producing any testosterone, they're getting given enough by doctors to be in the normal range for a woman, and no more.
>>183291In what world is "you're an idiot so I'm going to restate my argument and you're wrong" a good argument to you.
Especially when your argument about how they're not allowed to compete is just flat out false.
>>183293Haven't heard of those sorry, so I can't talk about them.
If you can provide some sources I'd be more than willing to give my opinion. From what you said there, it sounds terrible, and I think they should be prosecuted the same as any other vandals or people acting threatening in public would, as I imagine they were.
That being said, you sound like you're using small groups of extremists to create a biased image of the whole population, which isn't really very fair. There's plenty of women who make similar claims or act similarly (extremist feminist groups in this case) against all sorts of other groups, I don't think it's an accurate representation of the whole movement or of an overall trend, which isn't very fair.
No. 183295
File: 1488983127659.jpg (148.2 KB, 700x817, differences_between_male_and_f…)
>>183292Happy now you science denier?
No. 183296
>>183294I don't care how many hormones he takes, he's still a MAN. You can't change your sex just like you can't change your race. Male puberty affects the growth of muscle mass and bone structure, did you know men are much less likely to tear their ACL due to biomechanics? It's not a fair fight. Make a special division for
TW but leave women's spaces alone
No. 183297
>>183296You get that muscle mass isn't permanent, right? It's not like men just grow all their muscle then and then just keep it forever, it changes constantly, and taking away that higher test level will result in them losing significant amounts of muscle mass. And that bone structure is something that varies with literally every single person?
There's not a template all men fit and all women fit, there's always going to be differences that potentially give an advantage to one athlete over another.
When your argument is literally "they potentially have a slightly better frame than their opponents so should be banned from fighting them", you don't really have much ground to stand on.
You're trying to make up justifications for why it's totally not fair, but there just aren't any there. Fallon was the better fighter and won as a result. Her opponent didn't have to fight if she thought it was unfair, chose to anyway, and then whined like a fucking child about how it's unfair and they cheated and it's not her fault she lost.
No. 183300
>>183298Because low testosterone is not the only hormonal change this person has undergone? Physically speaking, they are within the range of what you'd expect for a biological woman.
You can argue a moral component for why they shouldn't be allowed to, which is perfectly valid, and I think you could have a solid ground to stand on there. But coming from a physical perspective about how it could potentially make for unfair fights, it just doesn't.
It's as level a playing field as you're going to get in a sport like this.
>>183299Please don't strawman, I never said anything even like that and you absolutely know that I didn't.
I said that frame of a competitor shouldn't be a factor, because there's a huge amount of variation in this athlete to athlete anyway. Should we ban women who have more typically masculine frames from fighting those without it? No? Then why does it matter when it's a trans person we're talking about, despite it being the only potentially advantage they might have?
No. 183303
>>183301Once again, please stop strawmanning me, as I said, testosterone isn't the only involved hormone.
Please, explain to me, what is the reason a man who has no real physical advantage will do better than a woman? Please don't refer to frame, as I said, this is a variable for every athlete of every gender, and weight classes are there for any huge variations. A trans person with a fucking massive frame isn't going to be competing against some tiny little biological woman, she'll be up against similarly huge people in the higher weight divisions.
The only reason we have mens and womens divisions is to stop people with unfair advantages competing against each other, a man who weighs 70kg isn't equal to a woman who does.
In fact, mens leagues generally aren't actually gender locked, anyone who identifies as a man can compete in them, nothing's stopping a woman from choosing to do that. There are way, way more restrictions when it comes to competing in womens leagues as a non-biological woman, it's not like we're only leaving women unprotected, just saying that if you meet the standards of that division, you can compete in it, the same as the mens divisions is.
Your argument here is moral and about where we draw the line of who's allowed to compete where rather than physical, because physically there's no debate to be had. She did not have an advantage.
Morally you have a better point, but there's already guidelines and criteria you have to meet to be allowed to compete. It's not like it's a vague undefined area, just one that could do with a little more professionals making sure it's all solid and reliable, and a little less of defeated athletes throwing tantrums that they lost, which is fucking ridiculous of her honestly.
I do agree that the regulations around trans athletes competing do need a little bit more refinement though, they aren't perfect and are a little open to abuse at this point, but in Fallon's case, that simply wasn't what happened.
No. 183306
>>183301 When this whole thing was only starting their original argument was that because black women play sports on women's teams, and black women are practically men (they used Serena and some others), there is no reason male players shouldn't be allowed to play.
And they got away with it too.
And it's amazing how many people agree that tall and strong black women are just like men so it's not fair to exclude men who crossdress. And they don't even see how racist that is.
No. 183308
>>183305Stop being so melodramatic, it doesn't support your argument at all.
How many mens only scholarships are there out there compared to those for women? Mens sports have had no actual restrictions on who could do them for a long time, any woman could choose to compete in them if she wanted to and was good enough.
Women don't actually own bathrooms at all, and I've yet to see anyone who disagrees with the idea of single stall gender neutral bathrooms either way. You don't have a right to a gender segregated bathroom, they only exist to make both genders feel more comfortable (most guys wouldn't feel okay with women in their bathrooms either, it's not like men are out there pushing for that to happen).
The word woman has always described the gender, not the sex, that distinction has been there for a long time.
Stop trying to victimise yourself, or at least take that shit over to Tumblr, you just look stupid, and it takes away from the actual issues that women do face in modern society.
No. 183322
File: 1488998186445.jpg (322.97 KB, 750x936, tumblr_om9nhpqv6h1uw11cco1_128…)
on Woman's day I see more posts about trans-women and other tumblr genders than about actual women who did something historical to support womanhood. But yesss don't try to forget all those snowflakes for 2 secs because they feel not included damn I'm upset
No. 183342
>>183322My country were marching for abortion rights today (the punishment for performing an abortion or ordering pills online here is 14 years in jail) and trannies are using it as an excuse to whinge about how they're not being included.
God they're so fucking vain, they're like caricatures.
No. 183356
File: 1489023049595.jpg (52.3 KB, 594x405, kennebunk-gay-pride-3.jpg)
"Kennebunk, Maine- Days after the Kennebunk High School became the first in the state to fly the Gay Pride flag, it has been removed on request of a transgender student who apparently believes that Gay Pride and the visibility of lesbian and gay students run contrary to the well-being of transgender persons.
This is not the first time transgender activists have sought to remove gay pride flags from schools. Last year the University of British Columbia’s Gay Pride flag was burned on the flagpole by a trans student who feared increased public awareness and acceptance of lesbians and gays might result in transgender people being associated with homosexuals."
Because homosexuality is transphobic.
If you are a lesbian and you won't suck "ladydick" or a gay man who doesn't want to go down on a vagina, you are a hateful bigot.
No. 183374
>>181925This.
I seriously can't believe all the transphobic hate in this thread. I mean, I know the posters on these boards are known to be catty and shit, but this is some 8chan-tier ugliness. I actually feel sick. My view of this board will never be the same again, honestly.
No. 183398
>>183396Well a trans designated bathroom isnt good enough for them. They have the audacity to compare it to racially segregated bathrooms.
I also hate when they say "i always knew I was a woman". How? Because their dick gets hard when they see themselves in the mirror in stockings and lingerie? Because they want a set of fake boobs to play with?
Its like Bruce Jenners quote when he won woman of the year:
"The hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear."
They make a mockery of women and they cant even hide the fact that its all dressup to them.
I honestly think wanting to "transition" stems from a form of a dissociation disorder. They have the desire to not be who they are for reasons that have nothing to do with true womanhood.
No. 183403
>>183396I think you can blame a lot of the transtrender kids and autogynephiles for this. For every person legitimately suffering from gender dysphoria there are a herd of cackling loons who either want to be the specialest of snowflakes or just can't admit that they simply get off wearing women's clothing.
Honestly, I don't want to share a multi stall bathroom with men. I don't care about single stall since I think it's silly to gender a bathroom one person at a time will be using. But I'm not going to be vulnerable in a bathroom or a change room with some guy in a dress with his dick swinging. I'm sorry is that is transphobic. But it's a matter of public safety. Too many transwomen are just autogynephiles who get their rocks off slipping on a pair of stockings and heels. They get so self righteous and act as if they deserve special treatment and get to invade our spaces.
I'm sorry, but they will never be like me. They weren't born female or socialised as one. They will never have women's health problems and have to deal with being pregnant, menstruation, menopause, uterine and ovarian cancer or anything like that. They grow up with an idealised view of women and then try to take over what it means to be a woman for themselves, tossing us to the wayside in the process.
They shouldn't be competing in our sports either or taking our accomplishments. Isn't the richest female CEO actually a transwoman? That isn't fair at all to the real women who worked so hard to get that far. Same thing with women in tech. Plus wouldn't it be more progressive to celebrate trans accomplishments in tech since they are constantly talking about how trans they are?
>>183398I hate that Jenner quote. It just makes being a women sound like playing Barbies. It's not. Most of us can't open up our spacious walk in closet and lament over what designer gown we'd like to wear with which of our 500 pairs of shoes. Have fun playing dress up in your golden years, Bruce.
No. 183406
>>183398>>I also hate when they say "i always knew I was a woman". How? Because their dick gets hard when they see themselves in the mirror in stockings and lingerie? Because they want a set of fake boobs to play with? This so fucking much. I remember when a couple years ago(?) Germaine Greer said that they just couldn't know how being a woman felt like because they had never been one before thus couldn't compare things. Their feelings are really just feelings and assumptions mostly based on stereotypes. Kek, people basically forced her to apologize. She then tried to apologize publicly, but ended up not doing it and just reinforced her first statement again. That was great.
Inb4 Wahh wahh I hate Germaine Greer… You know she had a solid point
No. 183407
>>183398>I honestly think wanting to "transition" stems from a form of a dissociation disorder. They have the desire to not be who they are for reasons that have nothing to do with true womanhood.Blogpost: that is exactly what happened to one of my exes. He was legit crazy. Legit. He did way too many drugs and that fucked up his already fucked up brain and he ended up living in a mental house for ages, getting ECT and a myriad of psych meds and brain scans. He hated himself so fucking much that he wanted to ~become someone new~ and blame his past actions because he was sad and confused for being trans. A few months passed and he dropped everything and stopped with the trans excuse. Lol. I know most cases are
not like his but anyway.
No. 183411
>>183408No. Women who have issues with our reproductive health are the LAST ones to push women who don't to shut up about it.
The only ones who make those women feel like "less women" are
- male doctors who claim a wig and tit implants "will make them a woman again" (just like male trannies believe chest implants and a wig makes them a woman) and pressure cancer survivors into unnecessary cosmetic procedures to make up for cancer surgery.
- male doctors who discourage women from getting complete mastectomy because "their husbands will not like it" even if it's putting them at the rick of cancer coming back.
- men who make "save the titties" anti cancer campaigns and
- men who leave their wives as they are fighting breast cancer
- porn culture.
- beauty industry.
Those are the reasons women feel like less than what they are, not women with breasts and menstruation talking about having breasts and menstruation.
Name the problem.
No. 183473
>>183403I agree with everything you said.
Honestly most trans irks me for all the reasons listed, but once in a while I come across a genuine trans™ and I'd feel bad to make them use a men's bathroom or changing stalls but tbh, they DO pass as women and often had the surgery. Worst of all they put on a towel like a lot of other women do and voila. They can talk about things others than their gender and don't seem to be "me me me" obsessed like the other auto gynephiles trannies.
As a lesbo they're not only just as obnoxious as flamboyant gays or overly bro dykes, but they're frankly disgusting because they get off of it right in front of your face. I have no desire to participate or be pulled in a sick trannie's fantasy, just like I don't want to be part of a flasher's fetish.
It's frankly disgusting to involve unwilling people into your fetish like Stephonknees does. Do your thang in your bedroom but don't put on disgusting pigtails and ridiculous lipstick to get off of being humiliated in front of people who never consented.
>>183408Oh come on ! I have infertility issues but I don't get offended when an article is titled "10 things all women know when they gave birth" it's fucking ridiculous, I can't even wrap my head around it.
Why the fuck do we have to tip-toe around words to not offend the 1 freaking percent of the population who's trans ? Now if you're a somewhat leftist mag, you have to write shit like "10 things you'll know if you're a person of any gender who had blood coming out of their vagina (or any sex of preference)" if you don't want to get a bad buzz.
We really have gone full retard with the whole "if you're not willing to suck a trans-woman dick as a lesbian, you're a bigot!" it's basically "Have you tried being straight tho ?" but supported by liberals. Great ! Seems like we can't escape dick no matter what we do.
No. 183475
>>183411You're generalising way too much there.
A lot of women feel lesser after stuff like that for personal reasons, same as a lot of men feel the same way after similar treatments.
You can't blame men for everything, because in this case it's generally personal insecurity or shitty people in general of both genders who act that way. Women can be shitty about other womens bodies just as much (if not more) than men are.
No. 183476
>>183457I think in that case it's important we look at it case by case and increase how hard it is to get diagnosed as someone with gender dysphoria, rather than shitting on the whole group.
A whole bunch of people with depression are just melodramatic teenagers or people looking for excuses for their failures or self imposed issues, yet you don't need to go around calling them all whining retards, you know? Just make it a bit more specific about what is actually MDD rather than just feeling depressed.
>>183459I'm inclined to think you have absolutely no knowledge of the topic at all if you think that.
>>183473I agree with all of what you said here 100% anon. People who are just into the fetish are pretty fucking off, if you want to get off on that in your own bedroom, whatever, you have the right to do that, but don't turn it into a political issue and drag a massively vulnerable part of the population into that with you, as well as trying to shit on anyone who doesn't 100% support it.
People who are transgender need a lot of support, regardless of whether you think it's real or not (no-one can say conclusively either way at this point, we don't have the ability to measure that), they're a very vulnerable group that society does have some responsibility to care for. But people who just want to get off on people seeing them as women should stay in places dedicated to that sort of behaviour.
I do think the retarded teenage girls on Tumblr have a fair bit to answer for in popularising these sorts of attitudes though, all of this extreme trans attitudes tend to start there. The idea that you're a transphobe for not being attracted to trans people is one of the most stupid things I've heard in a while.
I also think people pushing narratives that are legitimately hateful and just cruel towards trans people are fucking shitty people as well. Even if they're just seriously mentally ill, you're just fucking picking on the mentally ill, I doubt you'd see it the same way if you went around insulting people with Bipolar or MDD all the time and telling them how disgusting they are and misrepresenting medical studies to try to prove they're shit people.
That to me is essentially just as bad.
No. 183545
Oh good grief. Here come the thought police.
http://huff.to/2lOtswNA woman is being attacked for this statement:
“I think the whole problem of gender in the world is about our experiences,” she said. “It’s not about how we wear our hair or whether we have a vagina or a penis. It’s about the way the world treats us, and I think if you’ve lived in the world as a man with the privileges that the world accords to men and then sort of change gender, it’s difficult for me to accept that then we can equate your experience with the experience of a woman who has lived from the beginning as a woman and who has not been accorded those privileges that men are.”
Where is the lie?!
No. 183549
>>183505Come on anon, what else could I expect? You're clearly just jumping on the bandwagon of that insanely flawed study the other person posted earlier.
NPD doesn't present like that at all, which you'd know if you weren't just bandwagoning on it.
No. 183554
>>183545When a woman speaks it's automatically a lie to them.
Only men can really know what women are. It seems like we exist just to nod along to whatever they want from us.
The sky is green, Sir? Yes,Sir!
You are a woman, Sir? Yes, Sir, you are, Sir!
No. 183558
>>183545I once read this interview with a trans person who actually admitted that women get treated as if they were a lot dumber than men on a daily basis. It's one of these things that really shocked her.
We are shat on for large parts of our lives, someone who grew up as a male has no fucking idea what that's like, even if they think having boobs and a vagina is so great and women have all the power or some shit like this.
No. 183570
>>183545When I saw the backlash I was Fucking pissed. Unless they were transitioning since childhood (and even then), there's no fucking way a transwoman will know how hard it is to be seen as a woman in some ways.
Just like I can't totally realize how it feels to be a black woman in a white country. But I guess now we have to pretend those old transwomen were women all along and thus had a woman's genitalia since birth and also a woman childhood ??
I wonder if by being this aggressive about everything trans are shooting themselves in the foot or if they're successfully going to bully everyone into accepting their bullshit inconditionnally ?
No. 183589
File: 1489347746375.jpg (23.51 KB, 615x409, 3E0A523300000578-0-image-a-21_…)
Man in drag rapes another man twice, justice system names it "woman on man rape".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4305270/RACHEL-JOHNSON-woman-trial-rape-Really-No.html#commentsThis is the reason why when you google transwomen's crimes you only get results of transwomen crying about oppression. All the crimes they commit are written off as somebody else's.
No. 183598
>>182926Thank you.
>>182944TBF my only experience with this is online, and yes I have noticed it too. Unfortunately reality catches up with all of us, they do not have an exemption.
>>183089Where did I say it doesn't matter? I do not know the numbers of trans-people which is why I didnt comment on that.
Also stop being so
triggered and making out I said shit which I didnt, I didnt say they should deal with harassment, I said they shouldnt be surprised when it happens because guess what, being a woman isnt all sunshine and flowers. Other people managed to understand what I was actually saying, you seem to be hellbent on getting offended and arguing with everyone.
No. 183602
File: 1489365901611.png (67.77 KB, 1340x471, aaaaaaaaaaaaa.png)
Am I overreacting for being completely horrified at this?
No. 183603
>>183602There are posts on tumblr of transwomen fantasizing of "tricking a terf" into sex, revealing their penis and "hatefucking them".
They openly share their rape fantasies so I am in no way surprised by them doing this irl..
No. 183607
File: 1489367587736.jpg (42.06 KB, 742x567, Clipboard01.jpg)
No. 183608
File: 1489367906490.jpg (54.45 KB, 900x484, Clipboar.jpg)
No. 183610
File: 1489369296538.jpg (120.17 KB, 1229x555, suicicici.jpg)
16 year old girl's brother steals her underwear, a male crossdresser advises her to not tell her parents anything about it because "transgender people kill themselves for less".
Also, multiple transwomen talking about how they too stole underwear from women in their families to wear and masturbate into + how wearing women's clothes gives them a hard on and how it's totally what "cis women" feel too when we wear our own clothes.
https://transgenderreality.com/2015/09/28/transgender-people-kill-themselves-for-less-16-year-old-girl-is-advised-to-buy-her-brother-panties-so-he-wont-kill-himself/ No. 183611
File: 1489369649765.jpg (84.1 KB, 1059x363, transphobia.jpg)
having a sexual orientation is transphobia!
these are the people who "just want to pee" who are forcing themselves on lesbians in lesbian spaces.
No. 183616
>>183602>>183603>>183605>>183607>>183608>>183610>>183611And they wonder why people hate them?
A few years ago I used to be very pro-trans but since I have seen shit like this now I just back away. They really think the universe owes them everything and a lot of this is just straight up rapey.
>inb4 tranny bitches about this postYou know what fuck it, i'm done. Say what you wan but if trannies keep going around doing this shit the whole of society is going to be done with them soon.
No. 183621
>>183598Your intent was clearly to dismiss the issue because "there's not many of them", don't play dumb anon.
And sure, but guess what? Everyone deals with harassment, that's not a gendered issue, if you exist in public, you'll deal with harassment sometimes. That doesn't mean it's something we should just accept.
I love how you ignored where I asked you to clarify one of the dumber points you made, and then agreed with a bunch of your post to try to make it out that I'm clearly just trying to disagree with everything you say to argue.
I think you made some stupid points and attempted to dismiss real issues that can result from potential legislative decisions, but I think you made some good ones as well. Just because something happens doesn't mean it should happen, or that people should just accept that it does.