File: 1480386947962.jpg (434.86 KB, 1500x522, 636030028812678267289673047_Vo…)
No. 131986
I kinda sorta am pro-life, it's complicated. On one hand, I really dislike the idea of abortion because if you think about it, there isn't much difference between a baby and a fetus. And no, I'm not talking about how they look similar or how they work or whatever. I'm talking about the complete reliance that both the fetus and the baby have on the mother and how both aren't intelligent at all. I'm doing a bad job of explaining this idea, but if you get the general idea of what I'm saying, I want you to think about it. I know I've already made a few people think to themselves 'that idea is fucking retarded' but it actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it. So if you're not fine with killing babies, then you shouldn't be fine with killing fetuses because both are basically the same thing.
However, I recognize the importance of abortion. My life has been pretty shit, and if I got in the situation where if I got pregnant and had to give birth to a child and put it in a shitty situation where I couldn't really guarantee my child a good life, then I'd probably abort it. This is where most people say 'well dont let yourself get pregnant if you're not in a situation to have children" and while I agree with that idea, are you really going to force a baby to be born and put through a shitty life anyway? Abortion exists for a good reason, without it, there would be many kids who would not have a stable home and would probably have shitty lives. However, I'm still opposed to the act morally. It's a difficult situation for me to be in.
No. 131987
>>131985I'm definitely pro-life, but I'd never argue with a pro choice person anymore because most of them don't even see the embryo as human life anyway (or at least human life in potential), so why bother?
I remember people comparing embryos to cancer cells, and that is really saddening.
It used to upset me a lot, but I've found out how to let it go.
Also, i don't think abortions will ever be made illegal again, especially in this era of SJWs and 3rd wave feminism. Just being very realistic.
I believe that at least the majority of women who choose to get abortions do that because they believe they have no other option. I try to show empathy because I know that is probably a tough decision for many of them.
Even though I don't agree with what they do/did) I want to avoid being hateful.
No. 131999
>>131992every pro-life person has different reasons. In my case I'm not religious at all, but it just doesn't seem right to me that you will take away someone else's shot at life just because its not convenient for you. In the end the baby's life will be theirs to live.
Maybe embryos and 2-3 month old fetuses really do not feel pain, but they're still going to be human someday, and you shouldn't decide if said person should live or not. with that said, I am pro-life, but not an angry person who attacks planned parenthood clinics, etc or thinks women should have their babies as some type of punishment just because they had unprotected sex, etc.
I also think it's okay to get an abortion because your baby won't survive, etc etc etc.
I also have a great friend who regretted an abortion she got and still suffers a lot because of that. I understand its every womans choice though. Life sucks for many of us, money is short, etc. I just think its not correct to end their lives even before they have a chance to experience it. Like I said, I have very personal reasons to think the way i do.
No. 132005
>>132002You do realise how many people are not middle class women in their 20s with a supportive family though? That's why we need to have abortion available to everyone (up to 12 weeks after conception unless there are serious birth defects).
I'm married, I really want kids and I've never had an abortion (and personally wouldn't have aborted if I had gotten pregnant) and still I'd fight for everyone to have the right to decide how they want to plan their families by themselves.
No. 132007
>>132001The majority of foster kids experience instability and lots experience abuse. They were all abandoned or abused to end up in foster care anyway so they're all traumatised to some degree. There's a huge shortage of foster parents and adoption is a lengthy and complex process that loads of perfectly fine would-be parents are excluded from due to sexuality, being single blah blah.
Ultimately there's way more kids being fucked over in the system than will ever be saved. the ones who struggle the most end up bouncing around until they turn 18 and then they're in their own.
No. 132011
Oh god no. I've never seen good reasoning from anti-choice people, not once. It's all emotional, or religious, and in many cases goes against scientific knowledge. Not saying all of them are like this, but none of the ones I've seen have been any other way.
I've got pretty severe depression, and if I got pregnant right now I might either kill myself or (and I really hate to say it) abuse the child once its born, if I wasn't able to get an abortion. I'm not in a good place and I cannot handle 1. Going through the biological process that is pregnancy and 2. Taking care of the kid. I'd severely abuse it and neglect it. Yeah, I know its fucking terrible, but it's way too much stress for me at this point in my life and I'd lose my sanity.
I also don't get why people think women should be imprisoned/killed for having an abortion. They are against the "death" of extremely undeveloped humans who has done essentially nothing yet, and somehow don't care about an adult woman who has a family, has friends, a home, and probably a job of some sort. It just seems hypocritical.
No. 132012
>>131985lol, do you realize abortion is going to happen no matter what? would you rather have a safe option available, or a scared young girl to be reaching for the metal coat hanger with a DIY abortion video playing? Not to mention another thing I find disgusting about pro-life people, is that you don't care about what happens after the child is born. I'm not even talking about the fact that many people don't have the finances to care for a baby in the first place, and all the plethora of problems that will go along with that. The thought I hate the most is a child brought into this world unwanted and unloved, I guarantee you the vast majority of cases of child abuse happen because of kids being born into families where no one has an interest in loving/protecting them. This too later creates a plethora of problems. This is how criminals, psychos, drug addicts, runaways happen. And no, adoption is not going to happen in even a fraction of these cases, and even if it does, growing orphanages are not a good alternative, there are already more kids in orphanages for all of the infertile parents in the world as it is. This is only the shit that's coming off the top of my head. You fucking morons who are only interested in your self-righteous ideals, yet have zero thought of what happens beyond shouldn't be using the term "pro-life", "pro-birth" is what you should call yourselves, cause your shit ends there.
>What's even worse is how abortions are disproportionately black and hispanic??? this has nothing to do with eugenics, wtf? and it's in fact perfectly predictable, because it's a solid fact that black and latino people have a disproportionately higher rate of poverty. do you really think any of these people in these situations give a damn about "eugenics"? no. they care about what's happening in their own life right now. not about some race issue.
bruh. idk why i bother. you're probably some religious nut, or someone who comes from a religious conservative background.
No. 132013
>>132003Yeah but non-whites are more likely to get abortions.
It'd be a disaster if they were allowed to breed more than they already do
No. 132020
I've had an abortion. I'll have more if I ever need to again. I don't care if it's "murder" you're all pussies if you think that. Not ruining my body or my career to have a baby I don't even want. I had mine when it was at 5 weeks since my last period, so the zygote was only about 2 weeks since conception. Cry harder if that offends you.
Even if Roe v Wade is overturned I live in a country which has free and easy abortion so I don't care. It'll be fun to see how many single mothers are going to be in the next generation though.
Most people are only pro-life because they want to punish women for having sex, or they are rich it can have babies without it destroying their entire lives. Too bad women will always have abortions. Even if they are illegal.
Abortion pills are now the common thing. That's how I've had my abortion. I had to take a few pills and thats it. They make it better and better every year. In mexico you can walk into any pharmacy and buy them. Look at how much heroin and meth crosses the mexican border to the US. If abortion becomes illegal, women will either go to states like Cali or NYC, or if they can't afford to do that - they'll buy pills off of the darknet or from some dealer. Women are always going to have abortions under the table if they are illegal and there is nothing you can do about it, and science has just made it easier and easier. You'll just have to cry harder and harder about something that doesn't affect you at all! :)
No. 132022
>>132015This is probably bait, but still.
I love how pro-life people always have this holier than thou attitude, reminds me of the witch hunt era and the Puritans. Seriously. Also, being the braindead religious warped individuals they are, they can't argue and the moment you disagree with them they will end up attacking you and ignoring any request to argument and explain.
"Muh murder!" In a fb group I'm in I've seen a poor woman being literally torn to shreds by a group of pro-life because she considered getting an abortion for having an unhealthy relationship with her husband and also being broke as fuck, but noooo she had to give birth for them! And they proved their point by linking a known hoax about an aborted fetus and an idiotic "poetry" like a letter from an unborn baby to his mother. Delusional.
I'm also the product of an unstable relationship with a very low income and mental issues and sometimes I wish they'd just aborted me.
Just stop.
No. 132024
>>132023None of them, or at least none of the non-white or fucked up (sick, handicapped, whatever) kids that are born from their fetishistic obsession with forcing birth on people who shouldn't be having kids.
I'm totally pro-choice and I don't think there should ever be a cut off time for it either.
>>132022Some of that "fetus poetry" stuff was so amusing I have to think it's a troll. Especially the stuff that sounded like it was coming from Elmo.
No. 132025
>>132024>I'm totally pro-choice and I don't think there should ever be a cut off time for it either. same, the only women who get abortions after 3-5 months are in serious health problems. like theyll die if they have the baby or the baby will die, or there is cancer spreading everywhere etc etc.
no one waits until they are 8 months pregnant and then goes "welp, im gonna have an abortion" for funsies…. thats just ignorant…. why would a woman go through SURGERY under ANESTHESIA for no reason??? especially when under 3 months, you can just take a pill given by your doctor.
no, late-term abortions are for women who are basically dying of birth complications, or the baby is dying, or the baby is going to be born without most of its limbs and a functioning cardiac system. like fuck. 99% doctors dont do late term abortions, the only ones that do accept patients in serious health situations.
No. 132029
>>132011You are so right. Anti-choicers don't give a shit about the ALREADY ALIVE women and they seem to forget that pregnancy can fuck up a woman so much. They value an unborn fetus the size of a peanut more than the woman who feels and thinks and has lived.
I love children and I want to have a baby one day (hella maternal instincts), but I'm not in a place in my life where I can raise a child and take care of it the way it deserves to be cared for.
If you force a depressed woman to have a baby then that can only do harm.
I've suffered from mental issues for years, especially with my body, and having a baby right now would make me go hysterical because of my changing body (weight gain and stretch marks) and if you mix my issues with the hormones… how about no. And for what? I have a baby I don't want and throw it in the foster care system? Absolutely not! And don't forget about the possible health problems that'lol come along if something doesn't go right during the pregnancy.
It wouldn't be fair for you to be forced to have a baby you don't want and it lsnnotnfair for the baby to be raised like that. It's absolutely responsible to have an abortion if you
know the baby won't have a good life.
But anti-choicers don't give a shit :-)
No. 132035
>>132030>Then again I will never and have never been in a situation where I needed an abortion because I chose to only have sex with someone that I love/ know I will marry. Never say never, anon. You're free to do whatever what with your body if an unexpected pregnancy ever comes your way, but just because you only have sex with someone you love doesn't mean the relationship is going t last, or that you'll be ready for a baby the first time you start sleeping with them.
I think it is important for everyone to speak with their partner about what would happen incase of an unplanned pregnancy. This way you aren't stuck with some pro-life dude who wants to force you to have the baby but won't support it when it's born.
No. 132036
>>132034It's awful because in the US (and Canada) where abortion is legal… it saves lives.
Imagine if you are poor and you're making barely $20k a year. It's the best job you can get right now but you're saving up to try and go to school and get a better life. But you're pregnant…??? Why wouldn't you abort?
If you're that poor, you're likely living in an apartment with 2-5 other roommates if you live in a big city… you likely spend very little money on ANYTHING but the necessities (food, toilet paper, etc) and you're already probably in a very very vulnerable situation. You can't afford to have a kid.
Imagine if you do have a kid… that baby will grow up in literal poverty.
You will have to quit your job to stay with it for at least three years. You will end up on welfare which is often less than $1000/mo. After that time, you'll be unemployable and your savings will dry up so you'll probably have no choice but to stay on welfare.
$1000 month? Most of that will go towards subsidized housing, where most people are disgusting, criminals, drug addicts, all sorts of crazy people. That's who your baby will grow up around. Literally in a ghetto.
It will grow up malnourished, you will be constantly stressed out trying to make ends meet. It will grow up without a crib, toys, etc. You will often find yourself neglecting your child because you'll be looking for under-the-table jobs, etc. You'll be exhausted. The child will be exhausted. The child will have to go to a shitty school in a ghetto, and then it will grow up and the cycle will repeat itself. Do you think that "child" will thank you when they're older? No, they'll resent you and blame you for all of their problems in life. Furthermore, before 2 months there is nothing but a clump of cells in your body. Why are people okay with eating meat (live animals get killed, sentient ones with feelings and intelligence) but not okay with vacuuming up insentient live cells? Those cells are nothing at the moment - only potential, but guess what? Sperm is also live potential, but masturbation isn't illegal.
This could even be the case between two people. Maybe the guy you slept with was a long-term boyfriend who you want to spend the rest of your life with, but he's poor. Birth control isn't 100%. Are you saying that only rich people should have sex? Too fucking bad, I guess.
Not all of us live in fancy middle-class homes and have a family support system. If I were to get pregnant my options would be abortion, or a life of poverty. I'd have to drop out of school and work minimum wage until I had a baby, then go on welfare. Or I could just abort and continue to work towards being a productive member of society. Then when I finish school, maybe I will have a baby whose life I can actually enrich.
No. 132038
>>132036Exactly, thank you. It's all well and good for women who have husbands who support them finantially to be able to piss around at home all day. They've all the time in the world to raise an unplanned child.
What people don't think about are children that will be raised in a family that cannot afford to feeed them, born to parents with addiction, born to a teenage mother who couldn't return to school, women who have been raped, children born to incestuous parents, even parents who don't want them…there's not one sole reason to get an abortion but they're all valid imo.
If you give a damn about women, you'd be pro-choice. It doesn't mean that you're promoting abortion, it just means you don't want women who are in a horrible situation to suffer further.
No. 132039
People forget that when you're pregnant, you have to go through with a pregnancy. You don't just decide to keep the child then
pop a newly formed infant immediately comes out of you with no trouble whatsoever. Pregnancy can be a very complicated, painful and stressful 9 months. 9 months where your body is no longer yours, 9 months of nausea, morning sickness, headaches/backaches, swelling, bloating, weird cravings.
Pro-lifers say "adoption!11!!" as a solution, failing to account for how expensive pregnancy can be, especially if you have shitty insurance or no insurance at all- checkups and ultrasound aren't free. And giving birth is expensive. This source (
http://www.parents.com/pregnancy/considering-baby/financing-family/birth-hospital-costs/) pins the cost at $3,500 for delivery, which can skyrocket to over $8,000 when you add in pre and post partum care. These prices can skyrocket into the $10,000 if you hare complications or need a C-section. And complications are common- sometimes you just aren't dilated enough and need a C-section even if you planned for vaginal. Sometimes the baby is breeched, sometimes the baby has a bowel movement inside of you, sometimes the umbilical cord wraps around the babys neck.
After you have a baby, there is no guarantee you can just bounce back from the pregnancy. You're left with stretch marks, and possibly a surgery scar forever. Your breasts go up a size, you'll have stretch marks on there. Pregnancy makes you gain weight, which is not always easy to lose, especially when you throw post-partum depression into the mix, which affects a majority of women who have given birth, and can last a few months, to years after your child is born.
Not every pregnancy is complicated, many women have an easy pregnancy, and many women have a complicated pregnancy. If a baby is wanted, you might be able to look past all these hardships, because it'll be worth it.
But imagine you don't want a child and you have no way of aborting the pregnancy. You can't afford a child, and you aren't ready for a child. Now imagine you not only have to go through all that, but then care for a child you did not want for the next 18 years.
That's why I'm pro-choice.
No. 132044
>>132040>coupled with the fact it takes a couple about a year on average to get pregnant without protectionWhere are you getting that from? A couple has to try for a year before they can consider medical treatments like fertility boosters or IVF.
According to BabyCenter.co.uk (
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a1813/how-long-will-it-take-to-get-pregnant)
>20 will conceive within one month>70 will conceive within six months>85 will conceive within one year
>I argue abortion is morally wrong mainly on the basis that fetuses are human, and it is wrong to kill humans. Are you in favor of the death penalty? Are you anti-war? Do you do anything to help contribute to making the life of pregnant women easier? Do you support welfare, food stamps, and WIC?
>How often do women get pregnant if they use both condoms and birth control?No birth control is 100% effective. No human is 99% perfect. Condoms break even with proper use, the pill is only effective in percentages from 91%-99% depending on what brand someone is on, and how close to "perfect" their usage is.
So if a couple is still foolish enough to get pregnant after all those odds, they straight up don't use birth control, use it wrong or more, why would you then want them to be responsible for a pregnancy and/or child?
>couples could choose to have non pentrative sexSocially, sex isn't considered "real sex" without penetration. It's a stupid social standard, but it exists. See also: the different "bases" of sex, how lesbians aren't considered to have "real sex" etc.
No. 132046
>>132030So if you were raped and got pregnant through that rape, you'd carry the fetus to term? Or if you had literally no choice but to become a sex worker because the other option is starve and die but got pregnant to a client when BC fails? Because whilst choosing to be monogamous and on BC is all well and good, it's not an option for a lot of women.
How do anti-abortion people feel about children who are like, 12-15 getting abortions because of incest or rape? Should we make these children have children? Is that not also valuing one life more than another?
No. 132048
>>132045> if a clump of cells where found on mars, the headlines would say "life found on mars"Finding the early stages of life (as in general "life", that includes plants, bacteria, microscropic single celled organisms) on an uninhabited planet is way different than a woman getting pregnant, which happens every day and is common. humans are in abundance. Human life isn't a miracle every time it happens, its normal, it's par the course, it's doing what its supposed to do. That is not comparable to a groundbreaking scientific discovery that would probably change the life of everyone on the planet and how we see space travel.
> even if you get raped there is plan b.Plan B only works when taken within 72 hours, and even then, it isn't an guarantee. Plan B does not work if you are over a certain weight (I believe the cut off is 170+ lbs). It's also expensive- the pill will run you anywhere from $35-$50 depending. Of course, abortion is more expensive, but Plan B isn't like popping an Advil.
No. 132050
>>132045like if we found a bacteria on mars it would be just as important, but i don’t see people being anti-antibiotics?
when we found water on mars it was super important, but why isn't the water you flush down the toilet as important as the water on mars?
No. 132051
>>132039Thank you anon, I hear so much shit about "adopshun!" and its like they don't even know how pregnancies work, the toll it takes on the woman in many cases. I mean, to add onto your points, what about women who aren't able to work anymore once they are pregnant? Some places offer paid maternity leave, but I'm fairly certain most don't. Even if they don't leave work, they won't get paid much due to decreased mobility, increased pain, mood swings, all of these could easily have an impact on how many hours a woman can work. Some people won't be able to afford to eat for two people while pregnant either, some don't have cars to drive to a hospital in the first place, women in poverty/single women need to have abortions open to them. Fuck, some of those women can't even afford contraceptives! Forget about having them get birth control, and cheap condoms aren't 100% efficient.
But for real, why does everyone forget about the biological process of pregnancy? It's like its rarely even talked about when discussing abortion. Why is that?
No. 132052
>>132051Reasonably, the main concern when abortion happens is having a child/not having a child. I understand why that is the main focus of the conversation but that doesn't mean the hardships of pregnancy should not be discussed as well.
Women who want their children have a hard time discussing the dangers of pregnancy, the very real chance of miscarriage, and post partum depression. Everyone assumes that when someone is pregnant they magically can handle everything the pregnancy puts them through and all they get is a little nauseous in the morning.
Everyone loves to listen to the story of a single mother who accidentally got pregnant and bravely didn't chose abortion and the baby saved her life and the pregnancy was a breeze!
No one cares about the story of people like a friend of mine, who is a single mother with a deadbeat baby daddy, she has horrible recurring back pain and still has PPD almost two years later.
I wonder if these pro-life people are willing to put effort into giving women affordable daycare options, which can run up an average of $11,000 a year, much more than your average low income family can afford. Are pro-life people going to push for legislation to make companies give their female employees paid maternity leave? So women don't have to quit their jobs just to have a children? So women can still have paid time off to recover from pregnancy? And paid time off for fathers too, so both parents can be home with the newborn?
They only care about the fetus and punishing women who got pregnant. That's it. They don't care about anything else.
And pro life people all the time get abortions and go right back to protesting. Everyone thinks it won't happen to them, until it does.
http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.shtml No. 132054
>>132053You also can't just abort a child with a pill in late months either. At a certain point, you're essentially just giving birth to a dead child. No one would do that unless it was absolutely necessary.
Of course every pro-life person out there has an anecdote of some poor woman who has fifty abortions a year and never uses condoms and always has them at 5 months.
No. 132055
>>132040So you're saying I shouldn't be allowed to have sex with my fiancée just in case birth control fails, all because we don't want a baby yet? What fantasy land do you live in? Abstinence is the stupidest reddommendation.How does anyone's abortion affect you in the slightest? Fetus' are aborted at a point where they may just spontaneously abort anyway. But you think nah, Instead of removing a clump of cells that could potentially be a person nobody is allowed to have sex because birth control isn't 100%. Never mind the women who kill themselves, just don't murder the embryo. How are you this ignorant?
I'm not even gonna touch on how stupid it is to think it takes an average couple a year to conceive because it's painful wrong.
No. 132056
File: 1480580254358.png (90.39 KB, 482x315, 41d.png)
>>132045>if a clump of cells where found on mars, the headlines would say "life found on mars" and it would be very important/precious right? so why isn't a fetus as important. Wow, this must be the least convincing argument against abortion I've ever heard. How in the world did this 'make you think'?
No. 132057
>>132046>How do anti-abortion people feel about children who are like, 12-15 getting abortions because of incest or rape? Should we make these children have children? Is that not also valuing one life more than another?Prolifers usually offer exceptions for rape or incest because those are the two situations where it's really clear what kind of burden is placed on a woman in a pro-life philosophy.
It doesn't matter how hypocritical it is. When they give those two exceptions they can just jump right back into building the carnicuture of a promiscuous woman having an abortion every month.
No. 132059
>>132058fully grown people
>have thoughtsundeveloped foetus
>nothing No. 132061
File: 1480614318487.jpg (30.53 KB, 350x346, 1476843615862.jpg)
>pro-lifers ITT getting BTFO left and right
Feels good.
No. 132063
Pro-choice, for many reasons.
I mean if it's illegal people will still do it, just more risky.
Also; rape, severely disabled child, mothers life at risk, incest, young teen pregnancies etc.
I just don't think that we should force someone to take care of another human being when they aren't ready for it, wether it's mentally or financially. Yeah sure, adoption is cool and all, but the system really needs to be reworked and fixed.
+ Pregnancies are not easy, they fuck with your hormones and your body.
> Just posting this video cus i kinda enjoyed it tbh
No. 132069
>>132057Actually from my experience pro-lifers do not make an exception for rape. I've seen them try to claim that children are a "blessing" no matter how they were formed and the best part is that they argue that a baby conceived by rape actually HELPS the mother overcome trauma.
Pro-lifers are so sub-human it's disgusting.
No. 132071
>>132070If someone is pressed for time, ordering online isn't an option, especially if someone lives with parents who check their mail. And pregnancy tests are behind the counter and target too. Along with the plan b, they're behind the counter at most places.
Dollar store pregnancy tests are an option though, but I guess people think they aren't as reliable as the name brand.
No. 132076
File: 1480643884220.png (11.71 KB, 196x178, image.png)
>Prolife, I base logic off emotions (of the ancetodal variety) and/or ignorant of female biology.
Abortion regret should not trump women's lives. They made their decision, they knew the risks, they need to take some personal responsibility instead of pushing the blame onto a generalized group. Gets therapy, learn some damn coping skills, have another kid at a stable time.
Prolifers are so flat, they don't think outside the box. I have my tubes tied (removed completely actually), and that's not even 100% protection.
They should be forced to sit in a room with a mother being forced to birth her deformed child that everyone in the room knows is going to expirience pain and agony for its only short time on earth. They should sit and watch that poor child struggle, and hear the screams and cries.
>Prochoice ppl are cold hearted
Sure Jan. You're the petty bitch making innocent lives suffer for your own selfish feels.
No. 132078
>>132058I'm a fully functional woman and developed enough to have an identity, and sentience.
A clump of cells in my uterus isn't. Trying to compare a grown humans life to the "life" of a fetus is retarded. Why can't you anti-women fuckers make any argument that is at least kinda sorta reasonable instead of straight up trash
No. 132080
>>132079Lol I'm a pro choice child protection worker. So no, I'm not for infanticide. The line is drawn for me when the infant could reasonably be expected to survive with medical intervention. There's no such thing as a seven month abortion unless doctors are terminating a dying baby in the hopes of saving the life of the mother. Two deaths is worse than one so obviously I support late-term abortion. It's only ever a medical crisis.
To be perfectly blunt I also believe in euthanasia for anyone terminal and suffering, including infants. I'm pro-choice because I am anti-suffering.
No matter how anti-women groups protest that babies and embryos are the same thing, they aren't.
Read some basic medical lit about fetal development and neonates before arguing or asking nonsense.
No. 132083
>>132058A human being is not clump of cells, fetus is.
A human is a complex arrangement of differentiated and defined cells, that have begun working on cohesion to produce sentient life.
A fetus is just a clump of cells, no more or less sentient than a tumour or cancer. Should we make it illegal to remove tumours as well, then?
No. 132085
>>132065I had a pill abortion, it is like getting your period. It wasn't a big deal. They described all sorts of horror stories but literally all that happened was they gave me a shot of something at the dr's office, and then I took the pill at home and a couple days later I was "on my period" so to speak.
Lots of horror stories online but I think like 99% of cases are like mine. If you have severe cramps during your period you'll have severe cramps after you take the pill.
No. 132086
>>132079You're a fucking retard. An "abortion" at 9 months is a c section or the baby was going to die anyway.
At 9 months, no doctor kills the baby themselves. It either dies because it was not healthy and needs the doctor to put itself out of its misery, or the doctor gives it a c-section and it is adopted out.
No one ever fucking kills healthy babies at 9 months you fucking baboon. Or 8 months. Or 7. Why are prolifers so stupid?
No. 132087
As a child of the foster care system myself, no, I am not pro-life.
If you're going to give a baby away as soon as it's born, just put it out of its misery before it starts being able to suffer.
Or if you argue that fetuses feel pain; then make it suffer for ten minutes instead of 70 years, how about that.
There is not one happy child in foster care.
So, so few children actually get adopted, basically only the absolute prettiest, blondest baby girls get adopted.
No one wants a niglet becasue "Oh people will think this is my child from a previous relationship and I'll have to explain and that's so hard," and no one wants a boy because everyone has heard at least one real life case of an adopted boy murdering their adoptive parents.
So basically, if you give your kid up, it's going into the foster care shithole.
I cannot remember how many homes I lived in as a child.
I don't remember how many different people molested me.
I have no idea how often I was beaten.
I have never been loved by anyone in my entire life.
And that's the story of almost everyone who went into foster care.
I don't think I ever met one kid in any of the homes that hadn't been abused along the way, because no one gives a fuck about foster kids.
Case workers don't give a shit, they all have twelve other cases to monitor, they don't paid shit, and they're fucking tired and jaded and miserable themselves for having to stick their fucking face in brokenass system all the time.
And some people always have to say, "But what about once you age out of the system? Then you can go have a good life."
How exactly?
Do you think and 18 year old who never got to stay in the same school long enough to learn anything, has absolutely no money to their name, and their only life experiences include lying to cover up abuse, hoarding food because god knows when they'll feed you again, and stealing because Jesus Christ am I ever hungry, can make a good life out in the world?
How?
They don't know how to get into college.
You think foster parents tell us about fafsa and shit?
you think they teach us how to balance a check book, or buy a car, or do fucking anything?
Why do you suppose so many foster care kids become prostitutes, drug addicts, and thieves, and why do you suppose most of them end up in abusive relationships?
They know nothing but suffering. They have never had a good life, and they have no idea how to make one.
Best case scenario, they work fast food their whole life like me.
Don't fucking do that to a person.
Get rid of it when it's still cells that don't feel anything, or if you miss that deadline, then fuck it, kill it while it's still in utero and at least it doesn't know what's happening.
And if you still think, "But all that aside, you would still go to hell for murdering a baby."
I really don't think so.
I think if God looked down on you, and saw you being forced to choose between terminating a baby and making it suffer for a few minutes, or choosing to make it live it's life scared, angry, hungry, unloved, and hopeless for fuck knows how many years, because you're scared that you'll be punished for it, I don't think he would punish you for cutting the suffering of another person short.
Like shooting a deer in the head when it gets torn apart by a car, it's one of those times when it's a kindness to just end it.
No. 132088
File: 1480778119840.jpg (297.73 KB, 1000x664, shutterstock_89392057.jpg)
I'm doing the vitamin C method atm. 500mg per hour up to 6000mg for 3-6 days. Pure ascorbic acid, no bioflavins. If it doesn't work to bring on my period (even though I'm not late yet,) I have to have a "doctor's consultation" 24 hours prior to driving 3 hours away just to get a pill from one of the only two abortion clinics in my state. Then, drive back later on to make sure it worked. I feel extremely sorry for the women who don't even have this option, as much trouble as it is.
No. 132090
>>132088There are a couple websites that mail them out, worldwide I think. don't remember the names though.
this is not a viable option for many people but for most it could be.
No. 132091
File: 1480788022466.jpg (31.5 KB, 604x604, 1459962899709.jpg)
>>132087Reading stuff like this is what led to me wanting to get my tubes tied and only adopting children when I gain a stable income and home. Not to compare children and dogs, but people are always pushing for adopting the latter and never the former. It's so ass backwards.
No. 132094
>>132091If there was no stigma attached I would definitely without a doubt probably adopt one or two kids, instead of having my own.
But the stigma is so bad, especially from men. I don't have a problem with adopting but I'd have to do it single and then never get into a relationship probably because men just HATE "raising other people's kids" and have some fucked up narcissistic desire to spread their seed. No long term male partner would want to adopt with me, and then if I did it by myself in most cases guys wouldn't want to date someone with two adoptive children.
I think that's why a lot of men are pro-life, because of this weird fucked up narcissism they have to "spread their seed" and how they value that more than the lives of children and women. They are pretty selfish as a group. Sure, there are individual men who would be okay with adoption, but 99% aren't. I've even heard men talk about how they could never love an adoptive child as their own… sometimes I wonder if they're even capable of love at all.
Sorry for getting a little bitter. What I'm trying to say is that I'd love to adopt, but because of the stigma attached to it (primarily coming from men not wanting to adopt or not wanting to be in relationships with adoptive mothers) that kid wouldn't be able to get the "perfect family" that I'd want to give them.
No. 132095
>>132094I can testify that you are absolutely right. This guy I was in a relationship with (an abusive one, but this is also true of my other relationships with men) mentioned how he wanted kids to "spread his seed". Those EXACT words. He got mad at me when I said I didn't want children and he said he was gonna force me to have kids. Other, not so terrible men have reacted badly when I said I didn't want kinds/if I did want kids I'd adopt. Always like, but I want to have my own children. Some women have even been like "Yeah but its not as good to raise an adopted child than your own, you won't ever love them like a child you made." and its just so fucking shitty. I don't know how people can say shit like that and live with themselves.
On another note, one thing I hear from pro-life people is "How would you feel if your mom aborted you???!?!!?" or "But I bet you wouldn't have wanted your mom to have an abortionz!!!" and its just like.. Uh, yeah I would have if she needed it, because you know, I'm a good person? If I was causing my mom either serious problems physically, lots of emotional stress, or my mom wasn't financially ready for me, I would 100% understand and be 100% okay with my mom aborting me. Cause like I said, I'm not a piece of shit. My mom was in a good enough place, she left her abusive boyfriend, and moved back in with her mom (aka my g ma) and had me. She took good care of me, and I'm happy that I was born, but I wouldn't be really upset if my mom had aborted me either. Who the fuck thinks they are such a special fucking snowflake that them being born is more important than the intense suffering of the person literally being forced to give birth to them at that point? Who?? That's fucked up dude, and whoever it is, according to my morals, is a really shitty person. Fuck you, in your ass, my guy.
No. 132098
>>132097This is also something, fucking up your body and also you have to spend so much time going to the hospital and being off of your feet, etc.
But moreso there are just so many kids that no one wants… and people want to bring in more "to propagate their genes"
This isn't the stone ages and it's not all that we have. And usually the people who say stuff like "I want to spread my genes" don't have genes worth spreading in the first place. There are so many kids who suffer and dont get fair chances at life. The more I think about it, the more I think it is a good idea. I mean, if I were to do it, I would adopt a child with the same ethnic background that I have so that we can have a cultural bond.
But seriously, the idea of bringing another human being into this world while hundreds of them are being left for dead, is so irresponsible and disappointing to me. It's like creating a permanent underclass in society. It doesn't feel right.
No. 132099
>>132094>I think that's why a lot of men are pro-life, because of this weird fucked up narcissism they have to "spread their seed" and how they value that more than the lives of children and women.Yeah, that's my experience as well anon. In addition to the whole "WELL I DONT WANNA RAISE SOMEONE ELSE'S KID BC IM NOT A CUCK!" mentality. In fact, I read a study somewhere that if a family adopts a child while also having a biological one, they'll always play up favoritism with the biological child. I dated a guy in high school who was an adopted child in a family where they also had a biological child who came after him, and it was really obvious that the father took preference to his biological son. They showered the biological son with a lot of nice stuff and attention and left the adopted son unattended for. My ex was a fucking prick for this reason, but hey, it's harder to not normalize this shit when you grow up in it. He wound up knocking up a couple different girls and, of course, is not a father figure to any of his own children! How the cycle doth continue!
Fortunately, my current long term boyfriend agrees with me that biological children aren't a necessity and that if anything we wouldn't mind adopting. Both me and my boyfriend were brought up in divorced households with somewhat estranged fathers. My biological father was downright emotionally abusive and had children with many different women who he all abandoned too.
For these reasons us both never want a child; only when we are absolutely stable, are secure in our relationship, and have done everything we've wanted to do as a childless couple like travel. Boyfriend doesn't care if I would ever want an abortion in case we have an accident. We know how fragile things can be, and I would forever feel like a shitty person if I ever raised a child like in the environment I had to endure. Neither of us could live with it.
So some men are truly men when it comes to the baby issue.
My stepdad is an awesome guy and acts just like my biological father even though I'm technically his adopted daughter. He was brought up with a kind ethical code and christianity. My mother outright said that she doesn't care either way if I have children or not. I think she tells me this because she feels a bit guilty over having put me what I went through as a child. Maybe because she thought she had to have a baby to fulfill her 'role' with my biological father. Even though she knew he was womanizing and he beat her–which I later found out. Sometimes I wonder where my mom would be had she aborted me, if maybe she'd be a bit better off. Ah, well.
I really feel there are only three types of people who can handle non-biological children and not be guilty: 1. Adults who were children of dysfunctional homes, 2. Adults raised with strong moral codes that override instinctual selfishness, and 3. God-fearing religious people who sincerely believe to help an adopted child is to help a soul whom they'll spend eternity with and be judged for in an afterlife.
If men don't fall in the categories of the above, then they're usually the type to think nothing of divorces, abusing or neglecting kids, and just wanting to procreate out of some biological purpose.
No. 132105
>>132102so it's cruel to kill a fetus but a-okay if they grow up to a life of pain and suffering and kill themselves?
hm
No. 132107
>>132086I'm not pro-life. I'm just asking. I've actually encountered people who would be okay with abortions at 7-9 months and even infanticide in the first few days.
I wasn't asking about the practicalities or laws or whatever happens in reality. Just whether you personally would be okay with it. Not because I'm 'retarded', but because I've encountered people who are of the opinion that it should be allowed to be killed as long as it is in the mothers body.
No. 132110
>>132108Jesus Christ you motherfuckers can't work past your emotions, take a look at her post again
She didn't generalize a group, she asked a question.
No. 132111
>>132110she asked an irrelevant question. of course im not okay with infantacide or ripping a baby out of the womb and killing it, but its a loaded question that has nothing to do with abortion, because "abortion" isn't conducted when you already have a premie baby in the womb. doctors only kill premies NOT at the mothers request, but when something is horribly wrong with them and they need to be euthanized to put themselves out of their misery.
just because she's encountered people who are okay with it means jack shit. lots of people have stupid opinions based in ignorance. like i said, tons of people think its normal to fuck sheep. lots of people think we should kill all men. lots of people think women should be chained to the kitchen. doesn't suddenly make it a popular opinion or anything other than retarded.
No. 132112
>>132111Doctors don't kill the premies. If a premie has to be delivered early its incubated even if it won't survive or at least handed to the parents so they can hold it before it dies. There might be cases where a definitely dying premie may be withheld nourishment in order to allow nature to do its thing but no physician is killing premie babies under the guise of abortion. That's just anti-choice propaganda.
Abortion is the termination of a foetus or embryo, not infanticide.
No. 132114
>>132111So is it somehow a question that is not allowed to be asked? Seemed a legitimate and honest question to me, getting
triggered af about it isn't doing favors.
No. 132117
>>132113I don't even know why people bother bringing this up to paint the picture like abortion is racist or about genocide when it isn't.
The reason for the number of blacks and hispanics getting them more often is due to the fact that the majority of abortion clinics are located in low-income, urban centers where there is a larger population of minorities to begin with. The one I went to was centered in a complete ghetto and I had to be buzzed inside due to the security.
It would be like putting an abortion clinic located in a dense white suburbia and calling racist like it would be a surprise to see white people suddenly getting them more often there than blacks. Ahahaha.
No. 132122
>>132121Margaret Sanger was the founder and pusher for planned parenthood, anon.
She was praised by Nazis for her eugenics program/ideas which included
>Abortions only for blacks, disabled, mentally ill, stupid and the poor.She didn't want abortions for white people.
While I understand your sentiment, it's honestly a foundation with a rather seedy and nasty purpose.
Which, seems to be doing the job it was originally made for.
No. 132126
>>132122You're cherrypicking a historical argument which is not only a fallacy of an argument, but also completely out of context.
Whether you care to admit it or not, eugenics was once widely accepted in America. Doctors were sterilizing mentally disabled and minorities, as well as institutionalizing and lobotomizing society's 'undesirables' even if they weren't disabled, a minority, or crazy.
Henry Ford was an anti-semite, are you going to stop driving cars? Look up 'race sciences' pre-60s and you'll find that many educated and powerful folks fell in line with Hitler's worldview that there is an ideal race of people and the undesirables.
No. 132127
>>132122Holy shit you're stupid.
Yes, Sanger was pro-eugenics, but that was pretty normal at that time. She advocated strongly for birth control use by people who "shouldn't" have children, be it because they were poor, or stupid, or crippled, etc. Chances are,
you agree that people shouldn't have kids unless they're prepared and capable of raising a happy, healthy child. Granted, Sanger had a more racist views than are acceptable nowadays, but she definitely wasn't advocating for the extermination of certain races or any of that bullshit. She thought races of humans are like breeds of dogs; Mastiffs are almost always dumber than Border Collies, right? That doesn't mean we should kill all the Mastiffs, or that intelligence can't be bred back into them. And fyi, she had
very negative views of Nazis.
Oh, and she was, in reality,
anti-abortion. PP didn't start providing abortions until after she died.
So let's go back to your incredibly stupid line of reasoning. Sanger was in favor of birth control for people who shouldn't have kids. Some Nazis praised her for that. Therefore, being in favor of birth control for people who shouldn't have kids is evil. So you hate birth control and strongly encourage 16 year old crackheads to pop out babies, right?
It's a dumb argument anyway, because even if PP was founded with the sole goal of murdering black babies or whatever, that sure as hell isn't what it does today, so it doesn't matter.
No. 132138
File: 1481120137699.png (126.79 KB, 400x551, 1476806457405.png)
>>132135>comparing supporting abortion to being super edgy villain afI swear some of you can't be over 18 years old.
No. 132139
>>132030>>132134>>132135Hun, you can't post here if you are under 18. Please leave, and go back to hanging out with your other "goth af" friends who cut themselves on their own edge, and who vape or some shit.
Even if you aren't under 18, at least stop acting like a bratty 15 year old who doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about, despite still fucking going on about it.
>>132138I think the thought of "killing a poor wittle baby" appeals to younger children (or those with a, "young mind") who don't know shit about life or even about abortion, so it's very possible that's the case. I was even against abortion when I was like 10 because I was a fucking dumbass like most 10 year olds.
No. 132142
File: 1481172115169.png (34.05 KB, 500x500, 5489730893.png)
>>132140>strawmans prochoice people by saying they all strawmanning prolife peopleCongratulations. You're a retard.
No. 132144
>>132143Nobody is okay with infanticide, when it's a formed child already and the child doesn't show danger to the mother or has any illnesses or diseases that will make it impaired for the rest of its life. However you have to cross the line between what is a fetus and what is a child. Before three months you can compare a human fetus to an elephant fetus and they will look the same, scientifically speaking also they can't feel pain or anything at all due not having nervous system yet.
>I'm not pro choice or pro life>I hate the trend of people wanting to kill children, do you hate kids boohooWho are you trying to fool with these? Of course you are a raging pro life to think killing a fetus is infanticide. Just look at this thread
>>>/snow/187297 this is the kind of shit pro-lifers want to happen. Fuck the life of living, conscious, productive and ALREADY FORMED adults, a fetus is more important.
No. 132146
>>132144Nobody is okay with infanticide? You claim to know the opinion of literally everyone. That's quite a feat.
Hey, guess what, I'm okay with abortions up until 15 weeks. I am pro-choice. So you can put your strawman up your ass. I've constantly specified that I'm talking about late-term abortions, and infanticide, ie. the killing of a baby after it has left the womb. Unless you think it can postnatally be a fetus, you're strawmanning.
Nobody is okay with infanticide, lets get back to that, because experts have actually argued that it's ethical. Why? Because baby's aren't as sentient as fully formed adults. Edgy people with a hateboner for kids absolutely applaud these stances, and give actual pro-choicers a bad name.
No. 132148
>>132143If you fetus cannot survive outside of the womb with or without medical care, then I consider it okay to abort. This usually stops happening around 24-26 weeks. Which is consequently 6-9 months. When the fetus is capable of surviving outside of the womb (with or without medical care) then it stops being abortion, and becomes infanticide. When people talk about abortion, they are talking about abortion. Not infanticide.
However, there are times when infanticide is medically necessary. If the baby is born with a birth defect to the point where it would be suffering for months until it finally dies, then the doctor has a
legal, fiduciary duty to euthanize the baby (i.e. commit infanticide). If the mother's health is at risk and she is at risk of dying, then the doctor has a
legal, fiduciary duty to euthanize the baby (i.e. commit infanticide). Doesn't matter how you "feel" about the situation at hand, it's legal. Doctors go through 20+ years of hard, competitive education and training, a lot of which is ethical and legal. They are equipped to make the right choices about when it is medically necessary to euthanize the baby. Simple "abortions" don't happen after 6 months, and neither does simple infanticide. No one wakes up at 6 months pregnant and changes their mind, but lots of women wake up at 6 months pregnant and are told their baby has developed severe physical problems that will pretty much destroy its quality of life. Late-term "abortions" (infanticides) become medically necessary in these situations. Doctors have a moral, ethical obligation to protect their patient's dignity, that includes the baby and the mother. They sign a hippocratic oath. They are not going to sidestep this just because some anti-abortion people think they know better.
In most civilized countries, euthanasia is legal and so is assisted suicide, and it is allowed if the patient is terminally ill. "Late-term abortions" are no different. Maybe in the US it is different, they seem to be okay with letting religion govern everyone. The US is the Christian equivalent of Iran, it seems.
No. 132151
>>132149So certain doctors and medical experts aren't civilized? Okay.
>>132148 Yeah and I wouldn't call euthanasia for medical reasons infanticide. I'm actually talking about people killing their babies, because they don't feel like having one. There are doctors, medical professionals, and other experts who argue for this to become okay.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9113394/Killing-babies-no-different-from-abortion-experts-say.HTMLI will repeat myself. I'm okay with abortions up until 15 weeks, because there is some evidence that they start to be able to feel pain. That's my personal opinion where I draw the line, I'm not a raging pro-lifer, I'm pro-euthanasia for unbearable suffering, I'm not a religious nut.
There are people who want 'simple' late-term abortions and infanticide to become okay. This group is growing. I think they hurt the pro-choice case, because they make us seem insane to the actual religious nuts. Accusing anyone who is critical of some parts of the pro-choice side of being a religious nut, isn't going to help our case. We need to be clear where we draw our lines, and don't just point to what's CURRENTLY okay according the law, or what is being done in practice CURRENTLY, because that's just an appeal to authority. You need to base moral positions on more than what happens most of the time, and what the law says.
No. 132153
>>132152its because no matter how you cut it, you're not going to be able to give your kid all the attention and love they need if you're working two jobs to keep a roof over their head.
Kids need both parents in their lives, even if you think you're awesome mom who can do both… you can't.
I honestly think it's irresponsible to be a single mom in this day and age, where birth control has been basically free for like… 4 to 8 years? Even if the condom breaks, and you live in like bumfuck Arkansas, there's still things you can do. Like be on some form of BC or take the morning after pill.
(this doesn't apply to single moms who had kids before oBama care became a thing, obviously)
No. 132155
>>132154You don't become a gigantic asshole - you always were one. If your mom didn't recognize that, sucks for her, but how the fuck do you get married without discussing in detail your plan for a family, and whether or not they agree with it? The guy can and should do that, but the woman is the one with the control to get an abortion once she's pregnant. So the blame kinda does fall to them.
>>132151I'm totally okay with killing babies, but I hate people and especially kids so… seems reasonable to me. Plus your link only says medical ethicists, not doctors and other professionals. Painting in pretty broad strokes to say a handful of academics = entire medical professional body.
No. 132156
>>132153Care to back up your gigantic generalisations there nuclear-family-chan?
Cause uh, otherwise your whole shtick about baby needs mum and dad or it will turn out shit is pretty retarded, and I'm willing to bet it's based on nothing but some personal anecdote.
No. 132158
>>132153I mean, it is one thing if a woman was married, got divorced because the father changed his mind about being a father.
It's another thing if dad was out of the picture from day one, mom has a shitty low income job, yet chooses to have a child even tho abortion is accessible. The second type of single mother doesn't get much sympathy from me. I have no idea why they are "proud" of their retarded life choices.