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Also OP here; Anything punk is fine too, just please don't post emo, scene or metal, thank you.
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I've loved MaryGraceFrancone's makeup lately, I don't know who she is but she's shown up on my instagram explore page a lot recently. She's pretty young but takes a lot of trad influence and looks great.
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xbatprincesskittyx and battybooty are pretty awesome, they're a bit different to the usual looks you see on social media and they're not scared of colour. Like so many people feel like you can't wear colour with goth makeup despite all the original punk, new romantic, deathrock etc looks being full of colour as well as black liner. I'm old as fuck so when I was a teenager I had black, blue and purple eyeliner and red lipstick I used all over my face because my only eyeshadow was black and I had the option of like one brush so straight lines were only available via liner and blush via lipstick.
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Does anyone wear bone jewellery? Or make your own jewellery? I'm trying to make more than just nose chains and necklaces but I'm not too good at it. I have the ideas but not the ability to realise those ideas, and bone jewellery. If anyone has advice that'd be awesome. Posting with inspo just 'cause.
That really sucks that you lost such sentimental jewellery, I'm sorry to hear that. I have my wisdoms sitting in a little antique ivory box (cliche I know) and have been meaning to do something with them like turning them in to drop earrings, I don't want to loose the root as it's big and gnarly and pretty but I love the idea of a ring so I may look in to getting even some of those porcelain ones you buy in strips. >>86982
Bones are great when they're found and not acquired a la Joji Grey, I know the beach here has a lot of them and a friend just makes his jewellery from chicken bones, like from his food. Dries them out, coats them in clear nail polish or varnish and chains them together.
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Most of the activity seems to be instagram these days. There's a small crowd on Vampirefreaks still who are pretty close knit but that's been taken over by scene kids and Taylor Swift fans from Bangladesh. Don't see much on twitter, searched through the tags and it's all a bit bland. Anyone have any favourite social medias or forums for goth related music, art etc? I'm always looking for somewhere new.
There was the 30 second goth and punk accounts on twitter, but the punk one hasn't been posted in a long time and it looks like the owner of the goth one called it quits.
In Depth Music is a good account. They're on youtube and post a lot of underrated stuff.
when they took out my wisdom teeth, they let me have them and I turned mine into earrings by just wrapping some wire around them and then attaching them to hooks.
i like it when people ask me 'are those…teeth?' and i can flippantly respond, 'yes, i grew them myself.'
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How do you guys get the confidence to go to goth clubs? I really want to be able to meet other goths and make friends but I don't have any goth friends to go with and wouldn't know how to just go up and talk to random people alone.
It's never been more accessible, even normie shops atm are pretty goth friendly. You can be goth just by wearing basic ass clothes with a little styling, you don't need to go full batcave immediately.
I recommend starting a mood board of things you personally like though,deciding first on things you already know you like the look of so you can start there and expand
Start getting into the habit of checking Facebook etc for gigs and events in reachable distances
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I have already posted this in another thread, but I live in bumfuck nowhere in Siberia.
I just own a lot of basic black clothes, a couple statement pieces I ordered online (boots and coffin handbag) and a ton of cheap jewellry from aliexpress.
You can elevate the look by doing your hair and makeup really outlandishly. I chose not to because I have a buzzcut and unable tio do even simplest makeup on myself.
For makeup can I also recommend NYX? They're drugstore as far as I remember and they have black/purple/green lispsticks and singles of eyeshadows that are actually pretty good and affordable.
There are also a couple of goth storefronts on Aliexpress like Rosetic and Punk Rave, which can be pricy, but it's cheaper than Killstar. Killstar I would recommend if you know you're gonna buy more than 200$ of clothing/apparel because then they have free shiping.
In terms of a scene, unless you live in Europe or a prominent USA city the scene is dead. We had two goth nights in a year and the Halloween has died this year and the cover party died a couple of years ago. All we have for a "scene" is piercing and tattoo shops, but you can't exactly hang out there.
Most goth is online nowadays sadly.
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I'm saving my pennies for these Fluevog boots.
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But first I'm getting a pair of these.
Docs never fit me, whereas I have never needed to break in a pair of Fluevogs. And they last decades
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I love Xmal Deutschland. Finally their album Viva is avaiable on Spotify.
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I've recently been getting into what I call 'Goth Club' music but don't actually know if there's one coherent genre of it, I guess its more just edgy EDM. I am a pretentious punkfag first and foremost and sadly can't get into traditional goth, I don't like slow songs. My favourite bands at the moment are Crass, Cutters, Ceremony, DIRT, and Otoboke Beaver. I love 'alternative' (I kind of hate what the term alt has become) fashion in general and my personal style just an amalgamation of whatever the fuck I like. I love this girl's outfit in pickle so much>>268202
Ahhh nona i'm in a similar situation, I have no idea how to make punk and goth friends! I have one skinhead friend but it's not like there's a huge abundance of shows we could go to, or if there are, i'm not being told because i'm not in my local scene at all.. sigh. One day nona
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Yes, I did mean this thread, thanks nonnie
I wish I had the facial structure and confidence to pull off makeup looks like Siouxies, I keep it quite simple normally.
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Nona thank you! I just gave both bands a listen and I actually really like both! Especially She Past Away, I was surprised to find that they were a contemporary band… I just might be forced to look into other goth bands along the faster-tempo lines so i can make a playlist
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We've been living a lie, there's no such a thing as goth music, goth has nothing to do with musical taste, I'm even tempted to say it has nothing to do with art or culture either, it's possibly unrelated to an aesthetic too. We might as well declare that goth is whoever identifies as goth, because goth is an abstract concept and we don't want to gatekeep goth, gatekeeping is bad, everyone should call themselves whatever they fancy. There's nothing wrong with that! Are we afraid goth goes mainstream and becomes one of many labels to describe a vague fashion style, a category in a porn site or any other thing? Of course not! Goth is whatever you make of it, it has always been like that. Did goth start somewhere in particular around a certain decade? Of course not, goth has no history whatsoever. Let's fully embrace goth but only as a label in this year of our lord 2022, there's no reason to argue goth stood for anything in particular before, specially nowdays under the globalist capitalist system, because goth was never counterculture to begin with, so we're alright using it as an empty label.
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I might be retarded but did this anon imply that pastel/victorian/etc goth are also music subcultures?
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I think she's talking about the aesthetic, how there are different fashion styles for it, not only the traditional mostly black look. I don't think pastel has nothing to do with goth, really. And lolita, if anything, it's a particular subculture of its own. I doubt you can incorporate lolita fashion into the goth subculture, ''gothic lolita'' is something probably more related to victorian fashion and visual kei.
I really want to discuss this topic here: is goth intrinsecally linked to DIY, thrifting and low budget fashion? I certainly think so.
>>271514>I don't think pastel has nothing to do with goth
Sorry, that double negation throws me off. Was it a mistake and you really meant "I don't think pastel has anything
to do with goth" or did you actually mean it to be like "I don't think pastel is inherently incompatible with goth"?
I was a bit confused initially, because it was a response to someone talking about the music.
Anyway, I think DIY is a very admirable part of the culture, but I wouldn't rag on someone for wearing non-diy'd outfits if they are active in the music scene. Some just don't have the creativity or time.
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Yeah, I meant ''I don't think pastel has anything to do with goth''.>>271519
I agree that nobody has the time, but I believe that even buying clothes there's a difference between buying black basics made out of cotton and denim, and buying a killstar piece with alchemy symbols and pentagrams made of polyester. That's why I believe thrifting is the best choice, it usually takes as much time as buying clothes in regular shops.
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killstar is also dogshit quality. the moment they featured an mgk collection i didn't even want to own any of the few killstar items i bought over the years. i go to disturbia for sweats because they're really comfy and actually stay soft. my going outside clothes definitely reflect that diy vibe, thrifted clothes are way better quality and last longer than the "new season new looks" from fast fashion shops. i get more compliments and spend less money thrifting. estate sales are also good places to look for things like jewelry or household items.
Did you knew guys Nina is a TERF
?, Amazing rigth. We stan with this queen.
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Thanks 3 years ago flue-nonna now I need these picrel>>271514
I think it is nonna. Not sure if biased because thats how I grew up and built my own wardrobe but I really do miss seeing more thrifted and DIY. While I can be guilty of buying some fast fashion pieces and even a killstar knockoff/from the manu for cheaper bag I long to return to thrifting and altering clothes on my old shitty sewing machine. I refuse to support killstar and dollskill type shops and do look down a bit on those who buy their whole wardrobe from such places but then again I also still have a pair of TRIPP NYC bondage pants and a cyberdog skirt around here somewhere from many moons ago so guess I am a bit of a hypocrite. Would not shop at either these days though. Some of my most favorite and most worn pieces are DIY and/or thrifted normiefag items that just need the right styling. I do understand not everyone is creative and into DIY and as long as they are just exploiting the aesthetic for moid attention or to try and ruin our few remaining spaces they can stay.
My music taste is hard stuck in the past like 80s and then when VF was actually about goth kek anyone have any newer goth music recs? Bonus points if they still tour.
I'm an older zoomer and it's like that with a few of my peers. They think it's just a fashion trend bc of the tiktok trendhoppers who abuse #goth (and she/they troons, for some reason), or that there is goth music but it's all shitty soundcloud, or that it's a fetish bc of the stupid goth gf/bf memes.
And sadly they're half right, bc some people are trying to turn it into this bc theyre desperate for the coolness of the label but dont care about the subculture, and so cry g-gatekeeper and o-oldhead to dismiss people who mention what the subculture is about. But they don't realise that manufacturing being alt makes you the opposite of alt.
I would like music recommendations too (that actually tour so I can go out to a concert kek). I'm stuck in the 90s myself, I liked the ethereal, dark wave, and goth rock sound of the 90s and haven't found many if any bands similar to that.
The most modern band that I like is Angels of Liberty.
Rosegarden Funeral Party
Please keep adding nonnas!
Wait is she really?? I didn't know this. Like does she not believe in transgenderism as a whole?
Either way if this is true, I love her even more lol.
She Past Away
The kids who need a label for every made up mental illness and personality trait are the same who will turn around and say I won't be limited to labels and music has nothing to do with fashions of music based subcultures. >sToP pUtTiNg Me In A bOx
KEK that is so true. But you know this reminds me of the mid 2000s with the "Emo Kids" of MySpace and VampireFreaks. I'm sue there are some others in this thread who remembers those people who would say that they didn't believe in labels yet when you look at them, they were decked out in the most stereotypical Emo/Scene kid fashion and liked the music that was popualar in those scenes lol.
I mean at the very least they were listening to the music compared to today where these same kinds of people don't even listen to the music they're claiming to be but it's just funny, especially with how things have changed and gotten much shallower when it comes to this "Don't label me" mentality.
I also wonder if the whole "I don't need to prove my knowledge of x genre I dress like" is also some bleed over from con culture where the SJWs kept telling people you can't expect kids to know the source of their cosplay and it's bullying. Hell same with just "geek culture" in general which was a niche before it was exploited for simp bucks. Starting to sense a theme here nonnas.>>272074
100% nonna I feel like those kids would also be the ones who tag their insta posts with all the trendy tags and when it's pointed out they don't belong they would cry "I don't fit into any label but I do it to get seen you oldhead gatekeepers"
These kids and sometimes overgrown kids just can't make it make sense
I'm a huge NIN fan and I regularly search for used band shirts that won't cost a fortune, because I love wearing band shirts. What I've stumbled upon was a rapper wearing old NIN shirts and sometimes other famous people I've never heard of. That doesn't mean they don't listen to said band, but I assume that fans of their music will see them wear those shirts, buy them and not even know what music that band makes.
It's okay if you like the artwork on some band shirts, honestly, it made me listen to bands I would never have considered before, but to wear something you don't know anything about is so not what I would do. For example, I'm loving the California album from Blink 182, I don't like their stuff before that, now I'm not sure if I should get a shirt from that album or just leave it be, because I was not so into them before that time.
But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic, I don't know, guess it wouldn't work for me as I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something, it was a way a living, it was a whole feeling, it wasn't just some stupid clothes.
>>272080>I also wonder if the whole "I don't need to prove my knowledge of x genre I dress like" is also some bleed over from con culture where the SJWs kept telling people you can't expect kids to know the source of their cosplay and it's bullying. Hell same with just "geek culture" in general which was a niche before it was exploited for simp bucks. Starting to sense a theme here nonnas.
You know I think you may be onto something there. I can't say that I was huge into geek culture, I never really went to cons and I only liked a handful of anime back in the 2000s. I was more into video games but even then, not hardcore into it but I do remember the days when being into that stuff was not popular and you'd be teased or bullied for it compared to now where it's so popular and you don't get bullied as much for it compared to the 90s and early 2000s.
Perhaps it is a bleed over from con culture with people who dressed up as anime or movie characters while not knowing who the character was and now we're seeing that seep into music-related subculture which again were slightly stigmatized back in the day where people would get mocked or bullied for liking Metal, Goth, Emo, etc music. The people who call themselves these things now while not having a clue about the music are the people who would've bullied said people if it was still seen as socially unacceptable.
>>272083>But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic
My partner who is a fellow millennial but never allowed to dress like the metalhead he is tells me I should just not care that the zoomers just wear what makes them happy and while I agree if they call themselves goth then I get a bit rustled and I can't seem to help feeling that way.
While I definitely am a long time goth I do sometimes where other fashions but definitely never considered myself a lifestyle lolita or anything so am I maybe a hypocrite idk. I do only wear gothic lolita though am not one of those pink kawaii by day goth by night tropes.
>>272083>I'm a huge NIN fan and I regularly search for used band shirts that won't cost a fortune, because I love wearing band shirts. What I've stumbled upon was a rapper wearing old NIN shirts and sometimes other famous people I've never heard of. That doesn't mean they don't listen to said band, but I assume that fans of their music will see them wear those shirts, buy them and not even know what music that band makes.
Right I feel like this became more of a trend when celebrities like Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber were starting to wear band shirts like Metallica, Guns N Roses, and Iron Maiden. Their young zoomer fans and "zillenials" wanted to imitate their idols by dressing like them and thinking that those band shirts were brand clothing, mainly because these celebrities never talked about the music they were posing with like you know, Kim Kardashian being asked what her favorite Metallica song was.
>It's okay if you like the artwork on some band shirts, honestly, it made me listen to bands I would never have considered before, but to wear something you don't know anything about is so not what I would do. For example, I'm loving the California album from Blink 182, I don't like their stuff before that, now I'm not sure if I should get a shirt from that album or just leave it be, because I was not so into them before that time.
I get liking a band shirt design, I think a lot of metal bad tees have some pretty cool designs on them but I guess I'm just old school where I'd feel more comfortable wearing band merch of bands that I know and listen to. I don't think you have to know everything about the band but at the very least, at least know a few songs even if it's just their well-known hits. Like for example you liking Blink's California album, I think it's totally fair for you to wear that shirt because you genuinely like the album. So what if you didn't like their previous work, you found some of their music that you do enjoy and that's totally valid
and if you explain that to people who question you on it, if they're chill they'll accept that.
>But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic, I don't know, guess it wouldn't work for me as I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something, it was a way a living, it was a whole feeling, it wasn't just some stupid clothes.
I don't think it's overthinking at all. Music is a big deal for a lot of us and it's valid
, music helps bring people together and the fact that there are still people interested in these niche music genres like Goth rock, Deathrock, Post-Hardcore, and Psychedelic Rock to name a few shows how transcendent music can be in peoples' lives and that's why it's so sad to see the next generation take such a shallow approach and mindset to these once rich niche subcultures that brought us outcasts (lol) together.
>>272090>These aren't inherently goth (more mall stuff you'd see in Hot Topic)
I'd say that none of it is goth period. Something I noticed with a lot of these "got" clothing brands is how they don't even carry any goth band merchandise, not even the more well known ones like The Cure or SOM. So I never thought of brands like Killstar, DollsKill, BlackCraft, etc as "goth" brands, just dark alternative clothing brands at bst and stuff for angsty edgelords at worst.
I do get what you mean though, I remember Emily the Strange merch specifically costing at the most, $30 for like a messenger bag while everything else of her was reasonably priced. I do get Tripp because even back in the late 90s they were on the pricier side and same with Lip Service depending on what the item was.
>How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts?
That's a good question. My guess is that they use the money they make doing their streaming by putting away some funds towards expensive clothing? That or they get gifted it.
Ayrt. About emo and soundcloud rap, reminds me of Machine gun Kelly's song emo girl. He couldn't describe the girl past her looks and that she only loves trap songs. About tiktok, yeah though I like the diversity of aesthetics it has, it's social media so it can be quite pigeon hole-y like people thinking they can only be one aesthetic at a time, and shallow like wearing whatever gets Likes and insisting subcultures are just about clothes. I have no problem with people who know they just like goth clothes and not the subculture. I have a problem with when people insist on squeezing into labels they happen not to fit. Just be yourself and then use labels to describe that.
But for some reason a lot of gen z collects labels like stickers, warping existing ones to fit them like with goth, and making up labels like with turning personality traits into genders (and there's an overlap with gendies and dressing alt). All while claiming to totally be themselves and so progressive. >>272072
Yep all of this.
They're even resorting to things like "what about deaf people? They can't hear the music, so can they not be goth, you ableist? Gotcha!! Anyone and anything is goth!!" But of course deaf people are exempt you idiot.>>272090
How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts
Sponsorships? I've had scam sponsorship DMs from fake alt brands, makes me think legit ones are common for scammers to be doing it too>>272083>I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something
Not all of us are shallow, I've met fellow goth zoomers who like the music. But naturally the shallow ones are the most vocal/visible. I've had to fight for my clothes too, conservative religiousnparents you know the deal, and one of the only positives I can say about such stifling parenting is I value my self expression more.
I like that sort of clothing too, as I’m still darkly inclined and it’s good for casual wear. But at least in the US I have seen those shirts go for hundreds of dollars, and it kinda sucks because just years ago before this “mall goth” trend got popular, this stuff was under $10. I wonder if the trend will ever die down. Is has to, right? Soon they’ll be clinging onto some other time period.
It’s funny because I’ll see even plain polyester velvet stuff marketed as “Goth” on Depop for $70+ dollars, but literally all you have to do is buy from a normal store, thrift it, or even just go on eBay to get something similar (or even exact) much cheaper..
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Am I alone in thinking that whenever you hear someone who claims to be goth get asked what goth bands they enjoy and/or like and they respond with that they like all kinds of music and then don't answer are just signaling that they don't actually listen to goth music?
I feel a bit snobby thinking this way but I can't but feel like this kind of answer to a simple question is a subtle way of them admitting that they don't actually listen to the music. I get that it can be hard to choose favorites in a music genre but if you can't even name drop at least a few bands that you enjoy, it just leads me to suspect something is up. I think the reason why I feel this way is because I saw so many of those Killstar goffs, the ones who spend hundreds of Killstar and do hauls about it tended to always use that excuse of a non-answer whenever they were asked about what goth bands they liked.
Back when I started we had a store called XtraX and I know that people reacted to others wearing clothes bought their the same as towards people buying Killstar and co. today. Honestly, I like two or three things that Killstar sells, still wouldn't buy it, because I can make it myself in better quality or buy somewhere else for far less money with the same quality.
I would still agree with you, if you identify as goth, you should be able to at least name 3 bands that you like, same goes for every other kind of music. If someone would come around and tell me that he loves rap and therefore dresses like he dresses and couldn't name at least some music, I wouldn't believe that person. Even so my answer what music and bands I enjoy wouldn't satisfy people, I always say that I like rock, because that makes it easier, can't list every single rock genre I like and listen to, at least I could tell you some bands I like.
Oh wow, I haven't heard that name in a long while lol But yeah I suppose you can say that with all the big ame popular alt brands like Tripp as well. With Killstar, I just found a lot of their patterns tacky with the vomit spilled occult symbols and even worse, how people buying those items didn't even know what the symbols were. I remember this girl who did a "Killstar Goth Haul" even say that the pentagram is a "goth symbol" lol. So stupid.
>I would still agree with you, if you identify as goth, you should be able to at least name 3 bands that you like, same goes for every other kind of music.
Yeah like, it's okay if your favorites change every other week but if you can't or refuse to name at least some that you've enjoyed then it just leads me to suspect that you don't listen to the music. You never see this problem with Metalheads. Like unless it's people like the ones in >>272073
, most Metalheads do tend to name drop some metal bands they enjoy. Like whenever I heard someone talk metal and get asked about their favorite bands, I've never seen one answer with "I like all kinds of metal music", no they just get right into it. Goth is the time I've seen this kinda thing happen in.
Thanks for the recommendations nona! I really liked Velvet Mist.
I guess I am a little picky kek. Too often I will like the general sound of the band (guitars, bass, synth, etc.), but then not like the singer’s voice.
yea nona, she's opennly a terf
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You intrigued me so I looked it up and holy shit you weren't joking. YES, I fucking love this kek
I hope she doesn't deflect and retract, we need people but especially women like her to show that even in the alt spaces, you don't have to be a slave to gender bullshit.
It makes sense with her though because she did all kinds of looks both feminine and masculine and it seems she has the sense to know it's all fashion and doesn't change your sex.
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Bump, because can't forget Inez Weski. She's a well respected lawyer in the Netherlands, there is not much known about her personal life (even birth date is unknown, so I'm not sure how much she is involved in the goth scene) but I love her for breaking the stereotype that all alternative people are all just lowlifes. Her book is very good too, I don't think a translation exists but if you're Dutch it's both insightful and funny. >>272563
Haha oh my god that's so hilarious and cool at the same time. Another reason to love her!
i haven't heard many songs from this band though I've liked what I've heard. Thanks for sharing this one, the sound is absolutely divine. As great as the classic goth bands are, I love seeing new goth bands continue carrying the torch of the genre.
Golden Apes are technically a second-wave Goth band since they started in the 90s but I was happy to hear a new song from them.
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So I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion but honestly whenever I come across self-proclaimed Goths on YouTube who are obviously gen z, I automatically assume they are not actually interested i Goth and are just into the look which even in my eyes, looks more edgy altgirl then it does "goth".
I know that you shouldn't assume or genewralize but every time I click on a video titled "goth look" or anything that has to do with fashion and I click to see if they've talked music, 99% of the time they don't have any music-related content including playlist and if they do have a TikTok, they usually only use rap-type music, older pop punk music from the late 2000s to 2010s, and/or 80s new wave like Depeche Mode or New Order.
And even if they do show playlists which some have that may have some goth music in it like the usual Bauhaus, Siouxsie, and The Cure, I just have a sneaking suspicion that they don't actually listen to the music and only have it for street cred sortaspeak.
Again unpopular opinion but it's just how I feel.
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Any goth elders who would like to share how it was back in the good days here? I'm in my early 20s and considered myself goth ever since I was a kid and dreamed of finding other goths once I'd be older but I think it's dead here. You'll find some alternative people, sure, but they're usually only interested in fashion. There aren't any goth clubs here (nor have there ever been as far as I'm concerned).
On hand it's changed for the better, 10 years ago I was getting called a satanist and a freak just for a black dress and a couple of spikes. Now, you can find edgy/'alternative' wear in any other fast fashion store and so many people are wearing it. It's cool, I'd have been so happy as a kid, but it's all surface level and the fact that it's so accessible now means it attracts people who would otherwise not care to diy it. And so when you have a conversation with someone like that it usually turns out they just like anime and listen to 100 gecs. I tried to find some people online and the only local (as in from my country kek) community I could find consisted of balding 2deep4u vampire larper moids, normie moids looking for a 'baddie goth gf' and sad pickmes trying to impress them.
I miss being 13 and worrying I'd get called a poser, at least there were some people actually participating in the subculture back then. Most of cool people are probably not online I guess
I definitely think a lot of the older crowd is pulling away from online. I definitely have since I got over my BPD daddy issues teenage days. I consider myself "elder" only for the fact I have been goth long enough(over 15 years yikes) to also remember being bullied for my DIY fashion and called a freak for dating the only other goth in town.
I definitely struggle to connect with the vapid people who just dress in it for edge points and goffic arcs. The generational divide probably doesn't help. I am just barely a millennial and struggled enough to relate to them let alone zoomers.
Sadly my best advice to find like minds is to put yourself out there and start the community you want and hope like attracts like but also know you will have to deal with some retarded moths who just want to fly into your light(kek) as well.
People like Maddie Danger will say "there are discords out there to meet your fellow goths"but then not link any (probably to avoid anyone asking about her bow defunct one.)
End if the day wether we like it or not or think we are cut out for it we have to make the communities we want to see in our subcultures or else the future is left up to the zoomer gothcores.
Depending on your country and situation also maybe consider one of the big festivals like WGT or ML if you really can't build a community closer.
i would say youre goth.
there are the goths that go all in on it and have to make it their life.
house filled with halloween decor, wear goth clothing brands, seek out all new and obscure goth bands, proudly state that theyre goth where/when they can, etcetc….
but then theres the people who just are into that kind of stuff but dont go out of their way make it their whole being.
I think before social media most people were the latter, but now with the people trying to get online clout having to compete for it with others, they have to be over-the-top goth all the time.
so it gave the impression to younger people that they have to do all that shit to be considered a "real goth" too, which thus makes these younger people tell others that they're not a "real goth" cause they don't make it their whole being…
sorry for a little bit of a rant, but tldr: you're goth and i dont remember people being obsessed with the label and so hardcore about it before social media. it just used to be as simple as: you wear black and listen to the cure? you're goth.
I agree you would qualify as goth if you wanted the label.
The old crowd definitely uses music as the defining factor.
The zoomers think its aesthetic.
Some will claim you have to be "apart of the scene" but if you listen to the music that is being apart of the scene imo. That's definitely all I had growing up. There was no social media and I was not allowed out to the goth clubs/nights in the city (now you couldn't pay me to go to one.)
I guess tbf ymmv depending on what you want out of being goth too though. Like other anon said if someone wants clout they probably do all their decor shopping during fall and only drink black coffee. If you only care about being comfortable in your own skin who is going to come tell you you aren't goth.
Does bring up a few question for the fellow bats.
What is your local scene like?
Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?
How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?
Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?
>What is your local scene like?
Shadow of it's former glory. One of the biggest cities in Canada and I think we have on avg 3 events a month now maybe less. A lot of problem people from both old and new crowds and people thrive on the social media drama. It's made me lose all interest in it.>Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?
Lurker loner>How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?
Get blocked and called a terf
bully for spitting truths generally.>Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?
Nope, this is the only one I have ever known and I think I will stick to Jfash events and hope to eventually make fashion friends who have wider range than "if your 555 I'm 666" mentality that plagues so many goffs.
I'm in my early 30s and I didn't get into Goth until I was 16 and for me, my time in Goth was in the mid to late 2000s and I hardly went out to the clubs. In fact I've only been to one twice and they weren't actual goth clubs but just clubs that would have "goth" nights and in one of them, they hardly played Goth music and were spinning Industrial bands like Combichrist, NIN, and Suicide Commando type stuff with the occasional Sisters of Mercy. The other night played some classics like Bauhaus, The Cure, Siouxsie, and Clan of Xymox but for the most part, it was just New Wave and Synth Pop music like Depeche Mode, Tears for Fears, and The Human League. I did love the later night but just saying, never experienced a a club that played nothing but Goth and Deahrock music is all.
I'll admit that I miss the days when alternative was still a niche. Yeah the bullying fucking sucked and that's the one thing I don't miss but it feels like there was more camaraderie back then. Sure there were still posers like the ones >>283114
mentioned with those people who thought listening to bands like NIN, Rammstein, Evanescence, and HIM made them goth but for the most part, at least online I was finding myself being able to meet other people who were interested in actual Goth music and I was able to come across so many more bands in the genre that I hadn't heard of thanks to these people and I just miss those days.
And at the very least, even if you were called a poser, there was this incentive that if you wanted to not be labeled one, you had to get yourself to actually check out the usic and that goes for any scene really which only strengthened that camaraderie I mentioned earlier because ignoring the few asshats, most would still accept you in even if you were new and tried to make an effort to learn about and listen to the music. Compare that to nowadays where if you so muchas mention the music, you get labeled an "elitist" and/or "gatekepper".
This is so true. In order to see proper continuation of the goth scene and not let it subside to the likes of zoomer gothcores who only view it as some fashion show, us millennial and even gen x aged goths have to try to create the events and meetups that we once had with the clubs that are sadly closing down. It's tough though because we may not have as much time as we used to but I'm sure it can be done.
One idea I had but haven't executed yet was having a meetup at a local park to just chill and listen to goth music while having a little picnic/potluck type of thing. Cheesy I know but I dunno, I'd go to one kek.
Point is, we can't rely on the clubs anymore because they're sadly fading away and the only events that will feature some goth bands is really just Wave Gothic Treffen and not all of us live in the UK and can go to it so this is why a more DIY approach may be the best bet to continue the social aspect of our subculture.
In my honest opinion, the only way to qualify as a goth is to have an active likeness for the music. When I say "active", I mean listening to goth music and making an effort to explore the genre when you can and opening up your library.
To reiterate if you're just listening to the Cure, Siouxsie, and/or Sisters of Mercy and stopping there,I wouldn't call someone like this a "goth". I'm not saying that you have to only listen to goth music but what I am saying is that keeping yourself invested in the music from time to time and trying out new goth bands and songs and building up your library to where there's more than just the usual Bauhaus' "She's in Parties", Sisters of Mercy's "This Corrosion", The Cure's "Love Song", and/or Siouxsie and the Banshee's "Spellbound". This to me is someone who is a Goth.
To bounce off from >>283438
, Try not to worry about fashion and home decor. These things are not required to be Goth and as we've seen with the modern craze of "Gothcore" with zoomers who only care about "aesthetic" and looking edgy, it really epitomizes why the fashion isn't as important as one would think because there are plenty of people these days who choose to dress like this but yet still have no interest in the music and these people are not goths, they are alternative at best and poser at worst. Think of people like Jake Munro and Toxic
Tears, these are people who I would say are good definitions of posers to be brutally honest. >>283505>ome will claim you have to be "apart of the scene" but if you listen to the music that is being apart of the scene imo. That's definitely all I had growing up.
Agree with this. I remember back in the day people would say that if you didn't go to goth clubs, you weren't a goth but that was ridiculous because not every town has a goth club and so I too think that just listening to and enjoying the music is more than enough.
>>283505>What is your local scene like?
It's pretty dead where I live. I hardly see other goths out in public when I'm out and about. In the whole time I've lived where I do, I've only seen one other goth and the reason I knew was because she had a vest on with a large Christian Death logo on the back of it lol. Aside from her, I haven't met any other goths in my area.
>Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?
Mostly a lurker. I used to help an old online friend post music in a Facebook group dedicated to documenting goth bands but real life took over and we just got busy with our own lives and didn't have much time to devote to the group and we haven't been active in it in 3 years.
>How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?
Pretty much like you, I just accept being called a "terf
" and blocked. I've gotten blocked from a few Goth groups for refusing to call MTFs by female pronouns and this other time for saying that I thought nonbinary was stupid and contradictory. This part of why I stopped trying to engage in goth groups these days because of how so many are mindless TRAs. It's made me wary of other alternative people in general tbh.
>>Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?
There are times where I wished I lived in a place like NYC where I could meet more goths but again, because of how so many seem to be mindless TRAs and/or the "core" types of people who don't like goth music, I've grown accustomed to just being on my own and dealing with the solitude that comes with it lol.
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That's kind of where I am right now. I don't listen to a lot of goth bands and I don't go actively searching for new music, but the bands that I'm into I'm really into. Like I've been listening to the same five cure albums on repeat constantly for the past year. Also in the flat field(OT but does anyone else not like bauhaus's other albums? maybe this album is just so good everything else pales in comparison…)
I feel bad for you anons actively in the scene. Goth clubs barely even exist anymore and it seems like every alt person is a TRA/genderspecial/incel. But it's nice to know not everyone is like that.
It's not cheesy at all. There used to be picnic and craft meetups in Philly before the pandemic and they were really good for fostering community. They helped people make friendships outside of the club and also allowed people to share info more organically.
I ended up going to clubs less because promoters lied like hastags on tumblr or an aliexpress product description. Go for goth and you end up listening to anything but that. There was also an issue with local kink and steampunk groups coming in and acting like the events were theirs.
The few solid events that were promoted by handing out paper fliers had very few attendees. It's hard to want to go out when so many people bait and switch. Picnics were the best things.
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>>284475>Listening to the same five Cure albums on repeat constantly for the past year>Bauhaus' In the Flat Field
Well going off of this, I wouldn't necessarily call you a "Goth" until you try out more bands but if you do have an interest in the music and are open to trying out more music when the mood hits, you would be the definition of a "baby bat", someone new to the music and is taking their time (as one should) exploring the genre.
>Does anyone else not like Bauhaus' other albums?
I've only listened to their first 3 albums so far and I was quite fond of "Mask" but ITFF is pretty dang good and kinda hard to top so I understand where you're coming from.
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The pandemic really did a number on the goth's social scene when it came to the clubs. My city only had one goth club and it closed down during the 2020 lockdown and there are no plans of it re-opening but even then, that goth club was starting to teeter away from goth music anyway. I remember the last time I went there, this one DJ spun Slipknot, Linkin Park, and Bring Me the Horizon and didn't play a single goth song. He played NIN's "Closer" but I feel like he was one of those guys who thought that NIN is a goth band kek.
>There was also an issue with local kink and steampunk groups coming in and acting like the events were theirs.
I've seen this too! Not so much Steampunk, that never really caught on where I live but the kink and BDSM crowd made rounds at the one club and some of them were absolutely annoying to deal with, especially when it attracted normie guys to come in and try to pick up women there.
But right, I really wanna try the picnic idea when I have the time. Even if the turnout isn't big, I think it could still be fun even if it's just like 4-5 of us there and at the very least, we can just enjoy each other's company and know we all get each other musically and jam out to some goth songs while having refreshments and conversation. I'm just really socially starved to interact with fellow goths, it's been so long lol.
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DNA lounge in SF is supposed to be like one of the best goth clubs but they have this retarded DJ who always plays 2012 top 40s and like imagine dragons and shit
Does anyone else get crazy imposter syndrome when they're just doing their homebody things and wearing black sweats and no makeup even though you listen to goth music so you know you're not actually a poser?>>284162
My city does one of these most summers and I think its a great idea! Sometimes its even better if only a few chill people show up and you actually get to know them beyond edgy nickname, fav song and most obvious makeup inspo.>>284168
I actually super agree with this>>284540
Steampunk I kinda almost understand since it's fallen off and you know the meme about goths finding out about brown but wtf is with the kink people because no way they don't have their own nights, munches and spaces.
>>285122>Does anyone else get crazy imposter syndrome when they're just doing their homebody things and wearing black sweats and no makeup even though you listen to goth music so you know you're not actually a poser?
I personally don't to be honest but I'm also in my 30s now and I've been into goth since I was a late teen. I used to feel that way when I was in my early 20s but stopped caring when I got to my mid-20s. It was mainly because after interacting with some other people who claimed to be goths and dressed in dark fashion only to learn that they didn't listen to the music put into perspective to me that it doesn't matter if you don't dress darklu all the time, let alone at home where you're just relaxing. I listen to the music and I enjoy it and if someone doesn't automatically think I am goth because I'm not wearing elaborate dark styled makeup, they will soon learn otherwise if they actually try to talk to me about the music lol.
So I would try not to worry about it. You know yourself better than others and if you enjoy the music, that's enough. I chill at home wearing my black sweats or lounge shorts while listening to some goth music and I feel content and I'm sure you'll get there too lol.
>My city does one of these most summers and I think its a great idea! Sometimes its even better if only a few chill people show up and you actually get to know them beyond edgy nickname, fav song and most obvious makeup inspo.
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What do nonnies think of no make-up/little make-up and no black hair aesthetic? Since goth subculture has (perhaps had) a strong counter cultural element to it, I assume having to dye your hair a specific colour to feel a part of it would be just pure conformity. I also don't like the idea of wearing make-up daily or sporting a heavy look, this clashes with my views on performative femininity (although I know most make-up styles embraced by goth women and men aren't very traditional, and the fact that men wear make-up too also makes a diferrence) and my concerns about toxicity in cosmetic products. I have fair hair and wish to keep my natural colour and experiment with hairstyles instead. What are your thoughts on this? Do you dye your hair? Does make-up play a special role in your appearance?
Do what you're comfortable with, as you say the all black 'uniform' is (most of the time at least) just conformity from people who have their value in the wrong places and seek the easiest tool to enter/get validated from an established community. Experiment to find your aesthetic within your own boundaries.
I had the same concerns as you ages ago when I was more into the local community. Most of the time, the most striking looks where sported by clueless teens listening to industrial and thinking platform boots made them goths lol. I'm not gonna lie, I do sometimes want to dye my hair black just because it would make me look paler and sofisticated. But then I remember the important thing is what comes out of my earphones, why should I showcase everyone around me how goth I am at any time?
Personally, since I'm an autist and have my sensitivity issues, I've dropped nail polish, heavy jewelry, certain synthetic fabrics. Makeup, as in full face, I reserve for band concerts. For daily life a simple black eyeliner is enough. You know, when you get older you finally understand the venerable oldfags who dressed in simple band t-shirts and black denims haha. You can focus in having fun with your friends instead of making a competition out of your looks.
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I used to dye my hair red (as in ginger) because I loved the contrast with dark clothing. I did try black at some point but it just looks better on other people. With make-up, I borrowed more from japanese fashion magazines and used muted browns and plums, sometimes blues, to create "pseudo-black" eyeshadow looks that would look more flattering on my skin tone and features, and bitten lip look in the darkest red I could find.
I'm not going to blog my entire life story but basically I couldn't afford to be ugly and it forced me to come up with my own stuff and experiment and my hairmake ended up becoming my "brand". Now I'm more like you.
It's very possible to keep an interesting style even if you don't use make-up or hair dye imo. I think it's better to focus on your personal influences, rather than whether your look will be perceived as Undeniably Goth or not. You'll never be able to flex on the Killstar alt zoomers kek don't waste your time>>286871
Agree. Also I'd love to know what your staple outfits are like, my sensory issues only get worse and I can't find anything wearable anymore.
Analyzing what you have said here, it makes me think you're focusing too much on the physical appearance and thinking that in order to be a true goth, you have to look a certain way by wearing a ton of makeup and having a certain hair color.
My response to that is just don't sweat it. Don't worry about dressing a certain way and doing things that you may not want to do aesthetically. Goth is music-based and all you need is to just listen to the music among the other music you listen to.
Now if you're just asking this question with genuine interest on what goths think of when it comes to not dressing like a stereotypical goth or alternative person? I don't mind at all. I do tend to wear mostly black because I simply like how it looks on me but I've also worn other colors. And I nope, I don't buy gOfF fashion like Killstar neither, most of my stuff is either basic or thrifted.
I have kept my hair black though because I just don't think I'd look good with other hair colors but that's just my personal choice.>>286871
All of this, is so right on.>Personally, since I'm an autist and have my sensitivity issues, I've dropped nail polish, heavy jewelry, certain synthetic fabrics. Makeup, as in full face, I reserve for band concerts. For daily life a simple black eyeliner is enough.
I'm kinda the same way as well as a fellow autist. I'll still occasionally paint my nails but not as much as I used to and I rarely ever do full on makeup looks anymore neither since it just made me feel uncomfortable and I find that I'm more than fine with good old black eyeliner and the occasional subtle black eyeshadow paired with it when the mood strikes.>>286975>I did try black at some point but it just looks better on other people
I'm the opposite lol. I remember wanting to try dying my hair red because I thought it looked quite beautiful with dark clothing like you said but I just feel like I wouldn't be able to pull it off and that it looks better on other people. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and try sometime but point is that just as nice as black looks awesome with dark clothes, so does red and even blonde because of the contrast they provide.
Thank you for your replies, nonnies!>>287421
I think you're under the wrong impression, I was rather arguing the opposite and just asking for personal opinions. Thanks for your reply too, nona!
Sorry for the super late reply here but to >>285248
Absolutionfest in FL is still running, I think it just finished this weekend actually.
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Im in kind of a funny place, I still love goth music and media and listen to it a lot but i've grown tired of the visual when i was like 19, do I even still call myself goth? Whenever someone asks me what I listen to im like "oh like 80s-90s music with kind of an ethereal synth sound".
Back when I did dress the vibe I was very inspired by 1920s movies and sort of a vampiric image, pretty sure Theda Bara (picrel) was my lockscreen at some point.
I wasn't into goth in the 00s and didn't get into the scene until about 2010 but I remember I would see a lot of mislabeling in hindsight. Like back during the days of VampireFreaks an how people were labeling bands like Psyclon Nine, Rammstein, Evanescence, HIM, and other similar bands as "goth". As for people choosing to call themselves "goth" or not, I really do think it depends on location.
I'm a millennial and currently in the my 30s and where I lived, I did see the whole "you don't call yourself goth" rhetoric but this went for any alternative subculture like Punk and Emo. Meanwhile one of my older friends who has been into goth music a lot longer than I have shared that where she lived, no one gave anyone crap if they called themselves goth so long as they actually listened to the music. They mostly reserved the poser label for what she called "the spooky kids", the kids who thought that dressing in black while listening to Nu Metal and Industrial while carrying around a Marilyn Manson luncbox and thought they were goth for it.
>gothic rock and death rock bands were lame to listen to, it was only ok to like post-punk and some darkwave bands.
Yeah the older friend I mentioned hates Deathrock though I'm not sure if she made fun of people back then for listening to it. I did turn her onto Horror Vacui and she said "they aren't actually terrible" lol.
>looking back at this time the people who were judging the more "extreme" goths and vehemently denying that they were goth, were very much still goth, so why did people have this attitude? was it a pushback because it was right after mall goth was popular?
I feel like the reason why this was a mentality back then was because some people felt too embarrassed to admit that they had a deep interest in something so niche to the public. The mainstream bastardization of goth in the 90s and 00s probably didn't help neither.
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Speaking from the perspective of gen z: alternative subcultures, especially goth, have changed so much that's it's almost purely a fashion style now. Punk and emo and goth have sort of merged into one including their beliefs and music. I think one reason punk and goth subcultures were so tight-knit was that there wasn't really anything like it, you weren't being mistaken for emos or e-girls. And the only way you could get goth clothing was by DIY, market stalls and charity shops. Now alternative fashion and even wearing black is quite commonplace, it's harder to differentiate why goth is separate. Plus, the music has changed so much. Things like psychobilly and etherealwave aren't relevant at all now, so that's another part of goth subculture that's been lost. There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is. /rant>>295253>Back when I did dress the vibe I was very inspired by 1920s movies and sort of a vampiric image
That sounds cool, have you got any examples?
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I love the idea of adding non-Western cultural elements to goth.
Milennial here and while what you said hold some truth albeit shallow (not you personally, just the mentality of these people). Please don't take what I'm about to say as an attack, try to see it more as some slight educating.
> Now alternative fashion and even wearing black is quite commonplac
If you're referring to fast fashion, it's like, can we all be real here? Take a look at these self-proclaimed "goth" clothes that these companies pump out and ask yourself if this looks like something goth musicians were wearing back in the day. That just wasn't happening. You didn't see goht bands decked out in occult symbolism. And don't get me started on how some of these people don't understand that polytheistic religions like Wicca and Satanism are not "goth" things.
>it's harder to differentiate why goth is separate
I disagree. Maybe it's because I've been around for a long time now and have caught onto certain characteristics with looks actually relevant in the scene but personally, I can tell the difference between someone who more than likely is into what goth actually is vs a vapid trender. If you're decked out in a whole ensemble by Killstar, I am not afraid to say that I wouldn't believe the person is a goth at all.
And finally, goth music is still being made and it still sticks out from most genres of music.
>Plus, the music has changed so much.
Not really, the core of the goth sound is still there via the way the guitar sounds. It is true that with some bands, you see them experimenting with different singing styles and maybe even incorporating another style of instrument to the mix but the core fundamentals are still there.
>Things like psychobilly and etherealwave aren't relevant at all now
Psychobilly is not nor ever has been a goth subgenre, it's offshoot came from fusion of Punk Rock and Rockabilly. The "punkier" subgenre of goth is Deathrock. And Ethereal Wave, that subgenre of music was never all that popular, not compared to Darkwave and Goth rock which always were the most popular.
>There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is.
I'm gonna e honest, it's fucking retarded is what it is. Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf
, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.
>>296205>while what you said hold some truth albeit shallow
Such is the life of the zoomer.>If you're referring to fast fashion,
I mean fashion in general. You could get a gothic outfit from Primark. Things like chains, chokers, BDSM-inspired clothing as well aren't hard to find nor as shocking now. I guess I should mention that where I live is full of students and all kinds of fashion styles, so it's not entirely out of the norm.> If you're decked out in a whole ensemble by Killstar, I am not afraid to say that I wouldn't believe the person is a goth at all.
I agree. But not everyone who calls themself goth wears Killstar. And not everyone who wears Killstar identifies as goth. Let's be real, you can wear a black outfit and people may think you're goth, even if you don't listen to the music. If you can look identical to an actual goth yet have completely different music tastes, then it's no surprise that most people can't tell the difference and think it's a fashion movement. You can't really tell someone's music taste by their clothes anymore (maybe that defeats the point?).>And finally, goth music is still being made
I know .. I don't think I've explained my points, sorry about that. I meant that what is considered goth music has shifted (depending on who you ask). And also not as relevant; I've literally never heard of anyone being called a poser in my life.>Psychobilly is not nor ever has been a goth subgenre, it's offshoot came from fusion of Punk Rock and Rockabilly
Yes. But some goths of the 80s enjoyed that type of music and there was a crossover of people who liked the genres you listed and gothic ones. I'd say songs like by Boneshaker by Alien Sex Fiend were inspired by rockabilly (and The Cramps maybe), and they're a goth band right. And the rockabilly style definitely had an influence on gothic fashion. I haven't encountered that connection amongst zoomers. It's another facet of the goth community that's been lost, is what I'm trying to get across. The sort of music goth people liked has narrowed down to more popular stuff like metal and emo music (at least with people I know).>Not really, the core of the goth sound is still there
Yet, what might be considered goth sound isn't. A lot of metal heads wear gothic fashion. Not saying that's what it means to be goth, but that's what I've noticed. >Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.
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Someone help me find more photos of goth boys doing mundane everyday shit
How do you think it could happen? I've been thinking about that for a while regarding different subcultures, not just goth.
When I was a little baby goth you had to fight tooth and nail to find something like a spiky collar, or make stuff like that yourself. I remember people barking at me (kek) when I wore a choker out. Nowadays it's really popular and so is outlandish make up.
Nowadays you're expected to look polished and/or glammed out. Either zoomer grungry, grimey fashion trends are still accompanied by precise, flawless make up. It might be smudged and dark but it has a very surgical 'clean' look to it.
So going the other way might be it imo. I could see a make up less look with teased hair and lots of layers as a rejection of the current norms in some way. Although we live in very image obsessed times so sometimes I feel like the only 'true' modern counter culture would be rejection of aesthetics in general.
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>>296215>I mean fashion in general. You could get a gothic outfit from Primark. Things like chains, chokers, BDSM-inspired clothing as well aren't hard to find nor as shocking now. I guess I should mention that where I live is full of students and all kinds of fashion styles, so it's not entirely out of the norm.
Chains, chokers, and BDSM inspired clothing are not goth staples thugh. Chains and chokers are universally popular in all alternative subcultures, especially Punk. When I say "certain characteristics", when it comes to goth I'm talking things like Winklepicker boots, the iconic Siouxsie / Patricia Morrison eye makeup style, big teased hair (or the death hawk), Ankhs, and dress shirts paired with rosaries. These are the staples of Goth where you don't tend to see these particular things outside of Goth. Well save for the ankh but you get what I mean lol.
>But not everyone who calls themself goth wears Killstar. And not everyone who wears Killstar identifies as goth.
In my anecdotal experience, I have not met any goth who was into Killstar, the sentiment I've heard from other goths about the brand is it's tacky or cheaply made clothes.
>Let's be real, you can wear a black outfit and people may think you're goth, even if you don't listen to the music.
True but that's been a thing since the 90s where people assumed that if anyone wore an all black ensemble, they were goth which is not true.
>If you can look identical to an actual goth yet have completely different music tastes
That's the thing though, most of the people don't look like actual goths. The stuff I mentioned prior about certain characteristics that are goth specific, most trendies don't wear these things and instead, are just wearing generic alternative looking stuff, often fast-fashion looking or trying to look like the "e-girl goff thot". I'm more likely to think a person is actually into goth if I see them wearing something like Winklepicer boots or have the big teased Robert Smith / Siouxsie Sioux hair, and the like vompared to someone who looks like they fell out of a Aliexpress/Shein dustbin and aren't wearing any of the staples I pointed out.
>You can't really tell someone's music taste by their clothes anymore (maybe that defeats the point?).
Eh with Goth, most definitely I can lol. As I said, goth has characteristics that aren't mainstream and that only someone who actively looks into the scene would pick up on compared to general generic alt stuff that you see today.
>I meant that what is considered goth music has shifted (depending on who you ask).
Except it hasn't. The only people who think that are clueless trenders who get butthurt when you call them out that their music taste aren't goth. This is no different than clueless teens back in the 2000s who would label bands like Evanescence, HIM, and Motionless In White as "goth bands" when they weren't. It's no different now with the clueless kids calling bands like Pale Waves, Billie Eilish, and Lil Peep as "goth".
> But some goths of the 80s enjoyed that type of music and there was a crossover of people who liked the genres you listed and gothic ones.
And? You realize that just because a certain person likes something doesn't make it the same right? A lot of early metal musicians were fans of Blues musicians, does that make blues musicians metal because some early metalehads like that music? Of course not. Goth is no different, just because goths also listen to non-goth music, it doesn't make the non-goth music goth by association. Goth is a defined music-based genre, nothing more, nothing less.
>Alien Sex Fiend's "Boneshaker Baby"
Not all of Alien Sex Fiend's music was Deathrock. Just like The Cure and Siouxsie, they too also jumped around with different genres with their music.
It's kinda like the band The Frozen Autumn. Contrary to popular belief, not all their music was Darkwave as they also dabbled with Synth Pop but that doesn't make Synth Pop goth, Synth pop is a new wave subgenre.
The Cramps aren't a goth band, they were a varied band but they never dabbled with Goth rock or any of the goth subcgenres. They were definitely pioneers of Psychbilly like how Bsuhaus was the pioneer of Goth. But as I said before, Psychobilly is not a goth subgenre, just a subgenre of punk and rockabilly.
>The sort of music goth people liked has narrowed down to more popular stuff like metal and emo music (at least with people I know).
Then I'm sorry to be blunt but the people you know are posers if they're the kinda people who think lisening to metal and "emo" music while wearing black makes them "goth". They are the modern day "mallgoffs". Just because goth music isn't popular, the principles don't change.
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>>296311>So going the other way might be it imo. I could see a make up less look with teased hair and lots of layers as a rejection of the current norms in some way. Although we live in very image obsessed times so sometimes I feel like the only 'true' modern counter culture would be rejection of aesthetics in general.
Look at photos of goth bands from the 80s, they didn't look OTT at all. Picrel with The Mission, don't look outlandish at all lol.
Hey I just remembered you replied to me.>These are the staples of Goth where you don't tend to see these particular things outside of Goth.
Time marches on.>Goth is no different, just because goths also listen to non-goth music, it doesn't make the non-goth music goth by association.
There is more to goth than the music otherwise why the hell does it matter what people wear. >The Cramps aren't a goth band
I feel like we will have to disagree here.