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gender critical and female politics
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File: 1670623763479.jpeg (36.75 KB, 474x558, radfem.jpeg)

No. 6960

A thread for non-specific topics related to radical feminism and pro-women things. Let's vent, talk about our rights, our health, the porn industry, the makeup industry, sexism, misogyny, gender role madness etc. and share our resources and stories.

No. 6961

File: 1670624177387.jpeg (73.86 KB, 526x501, women who code.jpeg)

came across this today and it really angered me.

>women used to lead in computer science

>until 1984, our representation in the field dropped dramatically
>gender stereotypes, especially through toys and marketing, were beginning to have far-reaching consequences
>the first personal computers weren't much more than toys and they were marketed almost exclusively to boys and men.
>geek culture emerged during the 80s and TV shows, movies, and video games all reaffirmed that computers were the domain of boys
>women left computer science programs in droves because they felt left out, discouraged and unsupported

there is a 15-minute long NPR podcast episode on this: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/17/356944145/episode-576-when-women-stopped-coding

No. 7053

File: 1671485506954.jpeg (84.85 KB, 540x720, whitefeminism.jpeg)

No. 7057

a lot of white feminists that I have meet are racist and they should be held accountable however white feminism as a term has become a scapegoat. Whenever an uncomfortable subject comes up such as prostitution or surrogacy people shut it down by calling it white feminism. I think that these types of people don't want to think too hard about these subjects because they know how much of society needs to change in order to make life better for women but they don't want to come off as someone who is ignorant so they call it white feminism. They also refuse to see that some women are in a different situation than themselves so they can't comprehend why women in other countries than their own focus on other issues which ironically makes them the racist ones. I agree with everything said in that screenshot

No. 7058

dido on all of this. i think there are unfortunately real white feminists who are unapologetically racist (i.e nationalism thread, jfc) but all of the things that libfems argue as being white/western feminism is literally what women of the global south have been begging for. libfem movement today doesn’t want equality, equity, or anything, they want to coom in peace.

No. 7122

The second race gets involved, it's a good bet that it is by design to start a shit storm that cannot be quelled to shut down any real progress. This happened with every leftist movement to generate infighting and disintegration. The fact is that in feminism, women are the priority and women's problems take priority, never those of race. There should not be an oppression pyramid of race. Feminist spaces should not turn into general grievance corners for the world's problems and that includes racism. It is clear as day that women's issues the world over are not particular to their race at all, only class affects things and even then this is still patriarchy. Involving race in a significant way in western feminism has done fuckall for women's causes except allow trolls, moids, and opposition to women's interest a chance to troll and EASILY shut down discussion with baseless accusations of white-this-or-that.

No. 7135

But…all non white women are affected by race as well as gender. Would you tell an enslaved black woman that she needs to shut up and focus on the fact that both her and her white mistress are women. Lmao like I or anyone is going to tolerate being treated worse because of our race. This is only making women less likely to work together

No. 7139

This feels like an "us" first (white women) then everyone else second. It's a privileged position to be able to separate women's issues and race with such a disregard. Oppression due to race coexists with sex based discrimination, and to fool yourself into thinking that any meaningful change can happen without acknowledging this (bc of trolls for gods sake) is ridiculous and shallow.

No. 7156

Nonna isn’t confident enough in their knowledge of racism so now it’s inconvenient for everyone to acknowledge race. How’s that fair

No. 7204

Yeah. That's a race issue before a women's issue.
Oppression due to race is social. Oppression due to sex is universal. Women's liberation will achieve racial equality. Racial equality will not achieve women's liberation, this has been demonstrated.

No. 7225

Apply this logic to real life situations of racism in a group and see how far that gets you.

No. 7310

How is it putting white women first to want to focus on issues that affect people based on their sex and not their race? The worst offenses against us predominantly affect women of color - child brides, fgm, honor killings, surrogacy, sex trafficking, etc. Helping women in general helps women of color because they suffer the most. Nonnie is right, intersectionality in theory is great, but in practice just leads to a clusterfuck where everyone wastes all of their energy arguing over who is more oppressed and who gets to speak and on and fucking on. It's a pipebomb that completely disrupts any meaningful discussion and leads nowhere. Each axis of oppression is important enough to deserve it's own movement where they can really focus and get shit done instead of everyone using feminism as a dumping ground for every problem on the fucking planet except for issues relating to women's rights.

No. 7357

>but in practice just leads to a clusterfuck where everyone wastes all of their energy arguing over who is more oppressed and who gets to speak and on and fucking on.
Because of everything you just described I thought it was specifically an autistic libfem concept (which is inherently designed to hinder women's ability to effect meaningful change).

No. 7795

is anyone part of a local radfem or women's group? if so, what is it like and how did you verify yourself? i am applying for a local one but am not on social media so not sure how i can provide "proof". they are understandably really cautious about vetting people but i don't want to have photos or videos about me on record either. ideally they want someone who can vouch for me but i don't know any other radfemmy women IRL.

No. 7797

i'm part of a small radfem friend group, i verified through tumblr by writing a small essay and reciting radblr trivia lol. there is also a formal radfem org in my city which was a convenient opportunity for meeting up. i think you should just go for it and explain your concerns, they'll prolly understand. you and me are pretty lucky to have something like that where we live tbh, i'm dreading moving away.

No. 7810

thanks nona and that's so true. hope you can find a group when you move!

No. 7823

I see groups of women in the radfem community who try to separate themselves somewhow from other radfems based on superficial traits. Indirectly but you can see from the way they speak. Hard to explain without giving examples which I won't lol. It makes me feel excluded.

No. 7876

I'm worried for girls who are being impacted by male classmates at school who repeat terrible things they learned from Andrew Tate and the like. I feel like there needs to be after school programs/clubs led by older women to help these girls feel empowered.

No. 7886

The best possible scenario is radical feminism getting huge on tiktok. Zoomers are obsessed with tiktok and it's not a bad platform for conveying short, impactful ideas and if it comes from charismatic/confident women I really think it would influence them for the better. Maybe not to the point they would get into activism or learn about feminism deeply or whatever, but to ensure they can spot male bullshit and stand up for themselves.

No. 9378

Ntayrt but that's a really good idea. You have actually inspired me to sign up for Tiktok.

No. 9421

Met a radfem and we mutually want to become closer. We have so many specific aspects of our backgrounds in common.
I'm scared that in the case of a future falling out, though, she'll out me as a terf as revenge. I know this mindset comes from years of tiptoeing through toxic wokeoid culture online. But a lot of us in the RF community come from that, and I still see a lot of the old habits going strong.
Additionally, I know from having been very mentally unwell in the past and knowing mentally unwell people that you can do things out of character in the heat of the moment to hurt the other person.
As far as I know, she is reasonable and stable, and I'd really like to become close.
Should I just go for it and foster a friendship? Would you, personally, ever do this to a fellow radfem?

As an aside question… for those of you who have made radfem friends online, would you ever meet them in person? When you have radfem friends in a society where transphobia is extremely taboo, are you open about it? Or do you keep it between yourselves?
I've been a radfem for ages now, but the social aspect of these values that have to be kept under wraps still confuses me.

No. 9422

I don’t think I’d meet up with one from online, idk I feel like so much could go wrong.

But I feel you on being scared of being outed as a terf by other radfems. I can’t even be honest with people who I know agree with me sometimes because there’s so much vitriol against radical feminism right now. I can finally be bonding with another woman on this topic and feel comraderie and then be scared regardless.
However I like to think, I wouldn’t put somebody as a terf to ruin them. So there’s at least some people out there who wouldn’t either.

No. 9423

Another thing these online "radfems" do is take screenshots of your personal conversations and share them with their followers to laugh at you. And then they have the nerve to talk about "female solidarity" and how important female friendships are.
So be careful with her and don't share any sensitive information. She might even try to dox you if you do something she doesn't like.

No. 9435

I just recently spoke to my momma and she said she was actively helping women getting radfem websites and grassroots activism off the ground. I always thought she wasn't politically engaged enough to care about things like that (even though she used to blast MRA's online during the 2010s); but now I learned she's never stopped fighting for women's rights. I love her so much and I'm helping her now too with research and such now. I feel so lucky and happy to have her.

No. 9448

I know how you feel but after connecting with quite a few radfems both online and irl I can honestly say that you have nothing to worry about. But if the scenario you’re picturing were to happen, if your online presence is separate from your irl name/life how bad would it realistically be to get ‘outed?’ Why do the opinions of random people online matter? Sorry if this sounds harsh, I was really paranoid about that sort of situation happening for years but at some point I just stopped caring because I know even if I got harassed off of every online platform the people in my life that actually matter to me would still support me. Good luck on making connections with people you don’t have to censor yourself in front of! (heart emoji)

No. 13359

File: 1681411426491.jpg (41.56 KB, 442x632, DbNUeXHXUAED.jpg)

I was listening to a radfem podcast recently and one of the lines really stood out to me. It was something like "Saying women's bodies aren't inherently mystical is one of the primary ways female oppression is enforced". I have to admit, something about spiritual radfems makes me feel a bit embarrassed. I get that male-dominated science has been used to oppress women for centuries, but countering that doesn't mean we have to embrace mystical mumbo-jumbo. Men and Women are not inherently special, and we don't have to resort to evo-psych essentialism either. There has to be a more rational option.

No. 13360

Not mystical but it’s okay to say the things our bodies can do are pretty interesting. We make life, it’s easily explained by science, but it’s still cool as hell.

No. 13364

Okay and? monkeys and cattle also give birth and no one considers that beautiful, it just happened because of arbitrary factors of evolution.

No. 13366

Speak for yourself. Watching animals give birth is fascinating.

No. 13367

I think it might be referring to men basically making religions to cope that they are the creator, when in fact women are the creators of life due to being the main part of the equation of giving birth and always sure of their parentage while men can't be sure if a child is their creation.

No. 13371

Idk, what is beautiful to you that isn't at all artificial?
I don't find birth at all beautiful but it's such a profound process for nature itself that I understand why some people think it's beautiful or at least captivating.

No. 13375

if you really can't wrap your head around why a human being having the ability to grow an entirely new human inside of their body, sustain it for 9 months, and literally birth a unique life form is moving to some people and lends itself to having spiritual significance you must be severely autistic. im not even into mystical shit but its just objectively special

No. 13377

nta, We can admit that men made stuff up, but that doesn't mean we have to embrace goddess spirit worship. Just because it was practiced by women who also believed the earth was center to the galaxy and stars were spiritual beings in the sky.
This is why spiritual radfems often end up embracing reactionary ideologies. It's kinda worrying that they aren't aware of the reactionary ideas they're pushing.

No. 13388

Idk how special it is if over fifty percent of the population can do it

No. 13396

So do you just avoid empathizing with others' perspectives on purpose or what?

No. 13409

File: 1681482129804.jpg (240.93 KB, 1200x1782, feminist-spirituality.jpg)

A Soviet writer Lev Gumilev, argued that very few people can truly be atheists. He suggested that human beings fundamentally need spirituality, and asserts that soulless communist sects of Marx and Trotsky could never succeed; Gumilev believed that communism needed a sense of "Divine" to survive.
This applies to feminism too. Feminism cannot rely on theory alone; It requires a spiritual and divine inspiration to advance and progress

No. 13410

Anon you sound like a male that's got womb envy.

No. 13416


Okay. None of these explain why it’s objectively special though. Pregnancy isn’t even unique to humans.

No. 13420

It's not just about pregnancy, it's about everything relating to womanhood, without divinity to justify our existence we have no right to exist or pass down our views.

No. 13421

Anon wtf. Do you hate yourself?

No. 13422

What the fuck

No. 13423

I'm taking about people here, we choose religion and faith and there's nothing wrong with making your self feel special through a sense of higher power.

No. 13425

No no no, don’t backtrack, you just said
>without divinity to justify our existence we have no right to exist
unpack that

No. 13426

It's not complicated. To exist is not a simple matter for women, men, and everyone else. Merely living in this world from a detached perspective isn't sufficient; we need a deeper purpose that extends beyond ourselves.

No. 13435

File: 1681512983779.png (9.9 KB, 483x261, vaginas are transphobic.png)

I was watching an episode of a tv show from 2018 and a group of women were rallying together over something. they called this "pussy power". and it made me think about how commonplace the symbol of the vagina used to be in feminist circles or even just among women empowering themselves/each other and now has been completely removed. it's now only brought up in sexual contexts.
even when i google "pussy power" or "pussyhat feminism" (which i know was kind of cringe libfem shit but still) I can only find articles pre-2018 and things like picrel which call it offensive to trans people. and, of course, porn.

it makes me sad that we're losing this connection between feminism and our bodies. kind of jumping off what nonas are discussing above, but the vagina literally and symbolically is the source for life. and for it to become just resigned to just something "birthing people" have is bleak af.

No. 13438

so living concretely in reality is "living in this world from a detached perspective", but obscuring it with mumbo jumbo cope is not? Sounds like you got it flipped. Also the way you talk is like some sort of schizo cult leader
>it's not "sufficient" to live normally
>without divinity we have no "right" to exist
like what the fuck are you even on about? Who is dictating what life is "sufficient" and who has the "right to exist"? you? your god? shut the fuck up.
I'm not even the anon who started this convo but holy shit this is why everyone thinks you ~womanly divinity~ types are creepy as hell. Women who talk like this strike me as ex-christians/jews/muslims who literally can't imagine how it's possible to live happily secularly and shit on everyone else for doing so, just like they would have when they were in their original faith.

No. 13444

I believe living a completely secular life is a difficult feat to achieve, as it requires denying your own nature. In my opinion, individuals who claim to live their life without any form of spirituality may not be acknowledging certain aspects of their experience that are difficult to measure or explain. It's important to acknowledge majority find spirituality to be an important source of comfort, guidance and strength, and denying this part of oneself may lead to a sense of disconnection and incompleteness.

No. 13445

You are allowed to believe that if you want. But it is absolutely unacceptable to go around telling people they "don't have a right to exist" if they're not spiritual and that their lives are "insufficient." That's actually psychotic behavior that screams harmful religious/culty upbringing if you think it's okay to say that about people just because they don't share your spirituality. This is why religious people like you are insufferable to be around, it's not enough for you to have your own spirituality, you have to dehumanize and insult everybody who doesn't partake.

No. 13447

No creature needs to “justify” its existence on earth, you weirdo.

No. 13459

I'm not saying you don't have the right to exist. I'm saying that choosing to live without spirituality and faith may be like denying yourself something fundamental to your existence. Cause what makes you unique or different from others? And why even bother fighting for change when it's pointless according to their secular beliefs.

No. 13460

>fighting for change is pointless according to secular beliefs.
…what? wanting women to live happier lives free from male abuse and control requires no religious beliefs. You legit sound either highly religiously brainwashed or schizo, or both.
>I'm not saying you don't have the right to exist.
You can try to backtrack if you want but we all can clearly see what you said earlier in >>13420
>Cause [unless you have religion] what makes you unique or different from others?
Why does one have to be special and unique from others? This, and your statements about "having no right to exist" sounds like you have a deep self-worth issue that you are dealing with using religion.

No. 13483

All I'm saying is from a secular perspective, there is no justification to fight for any specific civil liberties because they don't hold significant meaning according to secular beliefs as there is not sort of higher power that would deem such liberties as significant.

No. 13484

So it's the old "atheists don't have morals" lol

No. 13493

Anon, WE are the higher power that seems those liberties significant. We don't need a deity to tell us what's good or bad or important or trivial, we can decide all that on our own.

No. 13494

Not morality, rather potential strength of character.

No. 13495

If you can’t imagine how it’s possible to have “strong character” outside of religion that’s definitely a reflection on your own shortcomings as a person

No. 13501

This has to be bait, like everything you’ve said is omega levels of retardation. I could easily imagine some moid chuckling to himself as he types this crap, anxiously waiting to see how he’s triggered the godless feminists

No. 13502

I don't believe you fully understand that I don't subscribe to any established religion - I identify as spiritually inclined. What I mean by that is that I recognize and honor the existence of a higher power, but I don't adhere to any dogmatic beliefs or practices. In fact, I strongly believe that most people at their core possess a spiritual inclination, although they may not consciously acknowledge it or give it a label.
Almost everyone is spiritual and religious deep down. It's not always recognized or acknowledged, but it's there, guiding us and giving us strength when we need it most. The will to connect with something greater, that pure and perfect force that resides within us.

No. 13503

Ok weirdo

No. 13504

Did you reply to the wrong post?

No. 13506

Probably should’ve replied to one of their worse posts, but I replied to the person I intended to address

No. 13507

Sounds like you’re in AA or NA and you drank the kool-aid. If that works for you to keep you sober or whatever good for you, but not everyone needs it. It comes off as pretty insulting to tell people that they have no purpose or strength of character without spirituality. Just don’t.

No. 13511

Nvm, I was the confused one kek

No. 13526

Let's table the disagreement for now and return to the original question, which is whether radfems with a spiritual inclination (but not necessarily religious) are more likely to become reactionary. In my opinion, this idea seems unfounded

No. 13529

of course you would think so kek

No. 13533

Do you have any evidence to support your statement though.

No. 13534

File: 1681608786903.png (427.41 KB, 879x2264, radfem to tard pipeline.png)

nta but terri strange is one clear example, you can literally see her tard progression in real time

No. 13535

wow, that's nuts

No. 13536

you didn't offer any evidence to support your statement either? you just said "imo" kek

No. 13547

Women who are into astrology, tarot, crystals etc. have similar personality traits to tradwives aka dumb, weak, and gullible

No. 13560

I've not posted in this thread yet but was scrolling and saw Terri's name and wow, kek seeing the stark decline like that via Goodreads is crazy. anyone remember few years back when TS got into a relationship with a super smelly-looking furry(?) male? it was shocking to say the least

No. 13567

holy shit. yeah, this is a great example of that.
there are definite pipelines in place when you're already attuned to mystical thinking. for example many women who are into yoga and wellness become puritans and get into anti vax stuff which leads them down a right wing pipeline into tradwifery. often going from a hippie liberal to conservative housewife.
>"Saying women's bodies aren't inherently mystical is one of the primary ways female oppression is enforced"
I have to say that for me the "inherently mystical" thing is one way I see women being turned into signifiers, rather than being seen as real thinking, moral humans. and it's no coincidence that a lot of TIMs are into mystical shit too. they literally think they can possess a female spirit and it's just a mistake their bodies are male.
but like some other nonas have said, another way to interpret it is that our bodies are literally life-giving and that should be respected in some way. i just think the mystification of it achieves the opposite.

No. 13568

How does this one example prove anything? Even if Terri has become more religious, that doesn't necessarily mean she isn't still mostly progressive.
The misogyny is coming from inside the house

No. 13570

(Not going to quote every comment)
I feel as though this argument is born out of the tension between nihilism/absurdism and existentialism than of feminism. Many religious and spiritual people are tended toward existentialist thought. It's okay to feel one way or the other, because at the end of the day we (as humans) are incapable of understanding the true meaning of life, except that to which we ascribe it. We shouldn't start insulting others because they are spiritual or skeptical—there is nothing valuable to be gained out of hostility, especially with regards to radical feminism.
Much agreed to both points.

No. 13604

File: 1681696792029.jpeg (64.83 KB, 525x584, DDE7D288-0268-41E9-B92C-BCC8BF…)

I think all the woo woo is bad optics

No. 13605

I agree and I hate being accused of being an NLOG for it.

No. 13607

The anons in the witchcraft thread and the astrology thread are so fucking embarrassing but if you dare say that they're beliefs aren't based on fact, they'll act like you hate women just because you didn't shit on superstitious men in the same sentence

No. 13611

I cannot believe sooooooooo many women legit believe in astrology. I actually can't wrap my mind around it.

No. 13612

this articulates something i've been wanting to put into words. thanks for sharing!
I don't think it's embarrassing. and i think most nonas in those threads would realise those things are not based on "fact" but still find some meaning in the process, which there is nothing wrong with. i just hate the association of women's wisdom = mystical and irrational.
it's only in very recent history we have even been considered moral beings in our own right and finally been part of the discourse but stereotypes still remain that we are incapable of logic and reasoning. when it comes to speaking about our bodies and our material reality, the last thing i want is to mystify it or give anyone an excuse to dismiss us.

No. 13615

What kind of meaning?
Also I've heard women say things like "I don't believe in astrology but it's just for fun" but I think they were lying.

No. 13616

The existence of any sort of Higher Power is not dependent on individual beliefs, regardless of whether they acknowledge it's existence or not

No. 13617

Ok resident schizo

No. 13619

The most based take I've seen in a long while. Witchcraft bullshit has been plaguing a ton of RF spaces because of this retarded ass "female wisdom is whimsical and mysterious" belief, and while women being into stone healing and other ridiculous alternative medicine garbage is 50% about medical science ignoring female problems the other 50% is caused by this shit. Horoscopes and spells and such as a fun LARP or as a way to do philosophical soul searching and such is okay, but when you're acting like a rational scientific approach is "misogynist" and "too masculine" you're doing a massive disservice to all women everywhere.

>it's no coincidence that a lot of TIMs are into mystical shit too. they literally think they can possess a female spirit and it's just a mistake their bodies are male.
This. Full on agreed.

No. 13633

>what kind of meaning
not to get too OT but one way to look at things like astrology, tarot etc. is a form of self-reflection or analysing another person/event. you're literally just finding symbols that make you cognisant of details you might not have picked up otherwise. eg. X in the 12th house - oh now i think of it I do have X and Y behaviours or themes in my life. I think many people just use it as a tool to dig into their subconscious or to notice patterns. of course, some take this very literally/seriously and re-write their experiences to fit into astrological readings or think they can predict their future, and some might use it for religious or spiritual guidance but that doesn't mean it can't be used in a measured way too. I'm sure there is a lot more to it but that's how I see it providing meaning for people.

No. 13657

File: 1681761543373.jpg (40.86 KB, 920x652, jennifersbody.jpg)

sorry if this is too ot but idk what other thread to put this in. what do yall think of jennifer's body? i'm supposed to write a paper about it and i constantly hear how it's empowering subversive feminist queer etc but it just… didn't feel that way to me at all.

No. 13658

I haven't watched it but I am curious if you'll share your honest opinion on the paper. I got the impression it was libfem shit from an interview with Diablo Cody (stupid name) and Megan Fox. Diablo Cody was the director of Juno and I can tell you that I found that movie gross as fuck.

No. 13659

I'm generally pretty honest about radfem shit in my classes. it makes moids and handmaidens upset but it's worth it when so many other women tell me I said what they were already thinking.
iirc the climax of the movie involves megan fox and amanda seyfreid making out even though amanda's character has a boyfriend. libfem shit indeed

No. 13662

File: 1681764962289.jpg (941.4 KB, 4212x1944, 5jgClq2zvO1ILycU.jpg)

I have a similar sentiment towards Megan Fox in that she embodies internalized misogyny, and her stans refuse to see it. She was objectified for most of her life and then ignored when she got older. Instead of learning from this experience, she went in the opposite direction and embraced the bimbo archetype. not to mention her cringey attempts at being bisexual, And let's not even get started on what she's doing with her sons(basically grooming them since they were toddlers to troon out, and successfully groomed her firstborn to potentially troon out at least)

No. 13663

That's great, anon! I'm very vocal about this too and I love when I encounter women who are open about this.
>iirc the climax of the movie involves megan fox and amanda seyfreid making out even though amanda's character has a boyfriend. libfem shit indeed
Really? I'm actually not surprised, from the trailer the camera seemed to eyefuck Fox as much as in Transformers.
I completely agree with you on this. It's sad to see what female celebrities will do in order to stay relevant in such a predatory male-dominated industry. Of course she is/was celebrated as a feminist icon at some point, how ridiculous.

No. 13667

Again, she didn't deserve any of the crap that came her way. But honestly, she's not really a feminist, and doesn't even support feminist ideas. All her beliefs and choices are based on liberal pick-meism, the only anti-male thing she's ever done is troon out and regardless of how you feel about boys, it's beyond fucked up to do that to a kid.

No. 13683

I read an interview with her years ago where she talked about her son wearing dresses and she was really happy about it, so this isn’t surprising at all. In a separate interview (the Diablo Cody one) she says she doesn’t consider herself a feminist bc there’s no space for her in feminism. Which I think is trauma from being bullied by other women at some point in her life. Like I get it, but it happens to everyone on some scale. Pretty sure she’s abused by that ugly faggot she dates so I do feel bad for her in that regard but otherwise she’s just another celebrity who doesn’t do anything useful

No. 13721

File: 1681815943377.png (18.16 KB, 699x330, contra comment section.png)

this is from the comment section of contrapoint's latest 2-hour-long whine about JK rowling.
other than stupidity, what do you think the confusion is here for some women? do they really think we're saying that only women with wombs matter? I'm also a woman with endometriosis who has no desire to ever have children (never wanted to and am now in my mid 30s, unlikely to ever change my mind) but that's all the more reason for me to be able to speak about womanhood in relation to my biology. only women can get endometriosis, hysterectomies and anything else that makes them unable to get pregnant. only women can choose NOT to get pregnant (and be judged for it) and there are some places in the world where despite my choice, i might still get raped and have to birth that child. no matter how many of my reproductive organs cease to function or are removed, I will always be a woman and have lived my life experiencing things only a woman can experience, even if I try to pretend I'm not a woman. I have will always have something in common with every TIF, but have nothing in common with TIMs that is related to being a woman (nope, not even the stereotypes of liking makeup and shoes).

I'm guessing this is a result of libfems only seeing what TRAs paint radical + material feminists out to be? that we're all somehow right wing conservative tradwives who think women are baby making machines wtaf? we're not the ones calling women "birthing people". we're not the ones trying to remove the language and community that helped us fight for the rights we have now. I cannot tell if they are deliberately conflating right wing gender traditionalists with gender critical feminists or if the propaganda has really been so effective that women think feminists = nazi.

I'm not even talking about handmaidens here (although these 2 examples may be), but just ordinary women getting hold of the wrong end of the stick. they see radfems talking about female reproductive organs and assume that means we think only women with healthy/functioning/present reproductive system count. It's frustrating.

No. 13763

Imo it’s willful ignorance and pretending to buy something they know is BS. Had this exact same discussion with a troon on tumblr recently. I told them that no woman will ever look down or judge a woman for fertility or health issues relating to her reproductive organs. They didn’t believe me and I just made a bunch of people mad because I went the extra mile by saying that men can’t relate to these issues kek. They don’t want the lies they’ve been spinning to be disturbed by reality. I do encourage gently pointing out inaccuracies whenever you can though.

No. 13773

Unfortunately I think there are a lot of non-radfems who just happen to know that sex is real getting lumped in with us. For example, Abigail Shrier's book made me uncomfortable because it was clearly written by a right-leaning women who think it's so sad that all these poor misguided girls won't ever birth babies and breastfeed. If that was my only exposure to criticism of gender ideology, I'm sure I'd also think that it was sexist tradwife nonsense.

No. 13775

that makes sense. it's so polarised rn that any rad fem talking points are lumped in with gender critical right wingers who are calling for the opposite (enforcing gender roles, not abolishing them). argh.

No. 13791

I think this is particularly weird considering most women do know sex is real and don't support trannies, that doesn't mean they have to identify as radfems at all.

No. 13804

I didn't understand why so many TRAs brought this up because it sounded like a blatant lie to me, but later I came across a lot of "gendercrits" working under the radfem label who were gender essentialists hyperfocused on reproduction functionalities, like treating giving birth and breastfeeding as the definite peak female experience. Whenever radfem communities or activists are courting right wingers for "support" because of some "muh fertile mystical lifegiver goddess mommy, zipper tits are degenerate failed women" ideal it's just underlining the fact for any outsider. I know many, many feminist women who actually agree like 99% of all radfem ideas but because of the tranny question and the association with conservative groups they think it's all about hounding troons and don't want to support them, and who can really blame them? That's like 90% of the discussion found in mainstream surface RF/GC-associated sites like ovarit that people come across, and even there it's bullshit like "all trans people are pedo rapists just like all gay people", not even regarding TIMs but TIFs too. How would one think a woman who only knows the nice, meek HSTSs and the cool lesbian trans men react to that? Especially when the only ounce of sympathy for TIFs is that exact kind of "poor misguided girls who will never breastfeed her baby" horse shit.

It's frustrating beyond comprehension, and anons here need to also understand how the movement is being observed by outsiders if they ever wish to reason with the people who only see them as evil conservative bootlickers obsessed with trannies. My local RF (which is now almost synonymous with "gendercrit") community keeps indiscriminately grabbing bigoted rumors and obvious lies and spreading them just to damage TRAs, only to fall flat on their faces in embarrassment because anyone with a half functioning brain can see that it's not true or is easily proven to be based on a bogus statistic. I'm sorry for sperging about this but I hate that so many amazing ideals that changed my life forever get buried under all this trans sperging.

No. 13813

File: 1681901416017.jpg (129.53 KB, 1050x668, iam-wha-039-0466.jpg)

I'd argue the opposite, stripping feminism of pretentious academic jargon and neo-liberalism and putting it in the hands of regular women is what will push feminism forward. The collective will of regular working women is better then the recycled farts of bored academics.

No. 13819

True. The real black pill of feminism is that feminism has achieved all it ever will because it no longer appeals to the average woman and existing feminists are too concerned with ideological purity, pseudo-intellectualism, hating other women and gate keeping to organise themselves into a group capable of causing change in the real world.

No. 13820

While it may not be my ideal scenario, I would prefer to have 10 million women adopt their own socially conservative understanding of feminism (with beliefs centered around goddess worship, fertility, and birth) rather than have a small group of a few hundred academic radical feminists who operate in their own insular world

No. 13821

>The real black pill of feminism is that feminism has achieved all it ever will
This is false. In any given no western country, for example korea, women still get beaten up by their husbands and fathers, get denied opportunities just because they're a woman, etc.

No. 13822

So, not adopt feminism at all? Social conservatism and feminism are inherently incompatible and considering the primary function of women to be broodmares is literal medieval thinking. What the hell is up with the late "ackshually being conservative is beneficial to feminism" idea that's been going around this hellsite lately? It's not super complicated elitist academics to say "women should not be dehumanized", I sure hope none of the "feminists" obsessed with child bearing aren't hypocritically getting their panties in a bunch when TRAs call women menstruators or birthers.

No. 13823

Radfem discourse makes me wish I was born male tbh. I'll never be good/pure/smart enough for radfems.

No. 13824

The idea that social conservatism or progressive values exist as inherent concepts is a fallacy. In reality, these terms are merely principles that we arbitrary assigned meaning to based on our beliefs and priorities. Ultimately, it is up to us as individuals and the masses to define and assign meaning to these principles based on our values, experiences, and understanding of the world around us.

No. 13825

I never said that feminism isn't needed, it very much still is. What I said is that feminists are too fragmented and detached from reality to have any major impact on politics. Women are 50% of the population yet we can't organise into a unified group to protect ourselves. In the west women are seeing their rights eroded and in most of the world women still don't have rights at all. It's bleak.

>Social conservatism and feminism are inherently incompatible and considering the primary function of women to be broodmares is literal medieval thinking
Emmeline Pankhurst founded the Women's Social and Political Union in 1903. After over 100 years in existence can feminism be classed as a western tradition? Social conservatism is the preservation of existing morals and traditions.

>What the hell is up with the late "ackshually being conservative is beneficial to feminism"

The left is failing women so women are looking elsewhere for answers.

>I sure hope none of the "feminists" obsessed with child bearing aren't hypocritically getting their panties in a bunch when TRAs call women menstruators or birthers.

Referring to a woman by her biological functions and not as an individual is dehumanizing no matter who is saying it. The lack of empathy for other women displayed in this board is something else.

No. 13826

There is no such thing as right or left though. It's just a different view of economics and values

No. 13830

>The left is failing women so women are looking elsewhere for answers.
kek and you think you’re going to find them with conservatives? Delusional, unless the answers you’re looking for are being confined to the house, popping out more children than you want, and cooking all the meals and doing all the housework for your Based White Chad husband who considers you his property. Which a lot of these retards on here lately seem to unironically want. You’re free to be retarded, but it’s not feminism.

No. 13831

>Ultimately, it is up to us as individuals and the masses to define and assign meaning to these principles based on our values, experiences, and understanding of the world around us.
That's not how terminology works, you can't just redefine ideologies to your liking. You can't say you're a social conservative, but "accept values considered socially progressive" (such as gay rights, female autonomy, abolishment of gender roles etc.) because that's an oxymoron.

>Women are 50% of the population yet we can't organise into a unified group to protect ourselves.
Really? Did all the progression with female rights come out of nowhere? Were they gracefully admitted to us by the scrotes holding power with no advocation from feminist groups? Get your head out of the gossip forum libfem vs radfem discourse and you'll see that there are large international feminist groups looking out for women globally.

>Social conservatism is the preservation of existing morals and traditions.

Uh-huh, social conservatives were the ones denying women the right to vote and to own their own property, and in 2023 they're the ones who want to ban abortion and birth control because all these bitches are taking their jobs and university positions instead of staying home like they should.

>The left is failing women so women are looking elsewhere for answers.

Radical feminism is inherently a leftist ideology based on marxism, its other name is literally "marxist feminism". What are you doing in this thread that's literally called "Radfem general"? And if you're so retarded you're lured in by promises of protection by a bunch of rich scrotes who assure you they'll protect you only after they'll get rid of all the trannies and brown people then you'll be in for a big, unpleasant surprise.

>Referring to a woman by her biological functions and not as an individual is dehumanizing no matter who is saying it.

That's the point, genius. You can't start going on about how womanhood is all about the ability to become pregnant and then act all hurt when the other side does it.

No. 13836

Okay let's take the most conventional examples of right and left wing, Fascist Italy and the Yugoslavia, both had strikingly similar women's policies with regards to education, work and treatment of gays
tell me what what made one part of the "left" and the other "right"

No. 13839

Get out, Paki-chan. You never make any sense.

No. 13840

Anyone read any good books lately?

No. 13841

No. 13842

Womanhood is about the ability to become pregnant. Women are treated differently from men because we're the sex that can get pregnant. It's why we're oppressed and why we're so often seen as resources first and people second. Pregnancy is at the root of all the shit that women face as a class, including the poor treatment of infertile and childfree women who are seen as physical and moral failures respectively because they didn't do their job and get pregnant.

When feminists point this out, they're not saying that women should be walking baby factories, they're saying that millennia of us being seen this way has shaped our roles in society and we need to band together and acknowledge it so we can undo it.

No. 13843

>kek and you think you’re going to find them with conservatives?
Obviously not. I never said I condoned it, I pointed out what is happening and why.

>Really? Did all the progression with female rights come out of nowhere?
Read the reply chain.

>you'll see that there are large international feminist groups looking out for women globally

And what are they actually achieving? I help run a small women's volunteer group, while we can do positive things for women locally, we are unable to do anything on a national or international scale. We have no power to change anything. All we are able to do is react to what has happened to women instead of being able to pressure politicians to enact laws that prevent women from being harmed in the first place.

>Radical feminism is inherently a leftist ideology based on marxism, its other name is literally "marxist feminism". What are you doing in this thread that's literally called "Radfem general"?

I never said that I agreed with women looking to the right, it's what is happening. An increasing number of women are becoming tardthots and tradwives because their exposure to feminism is liberal feminism that does not address their concerns and dismisses them as being "right wing". Outside of online spaces radfems have very little presence and some women aren't even aware that there is an alternative to liberal feminism. The right embraces them and does not attempt to censor them. The right will never do anything for them but they are at least prepared to give them a platform. Many women have concerns about troons, sex work and the sexualisation of young girls. Speaking out against any of this is often enough to get a woman labeled as a conservative by libfems. The reality is that these women would be more aligned with radical feminism than the right.

>You can't start going on about how womanhood is all about the ability to become pregnant and then act all hurt when the other side does it.

I never defined a woman as being purely her biological function. I simply said that doing so is wrong no matter who is doing it.

No. 13846

I agree with your sentiment, but the way you're framing it is a bit awkward because it disconnects us from nature. As primates, we began living in social groups like wolves, and this mix of circumstances gave us a greater awareness of ourselves. Humans, like animals, have an innate desire to survive, as those who succeed in surviving pass down their genetic material, We may have aspirations beyond mere survival, but at our core, we are all driven by the same primal instinct to persist and carry on.

No. 13847

Why does everyone keep saying this? I can only think of like one radical feminist academic and she also has actually had an influence on legislation

No. 13849

>When feminists point this out, they're not saying that women should be walking baby factories
That's the issue here, tradfags sneaking in with regressive values when they're implying that the highest achievement a woman should aim for is to birth kids because "that's what our bodies are made for" and especially fresh radfems agree with it simply because they're too blinded by their hatred for tranny nonsense and are aching for someone to say that women have wombs and vaginas. There's a stark difference in saying "women can give birth" and "women should give birth".

>And what are they actually achieving?
Read the news for once. Or better yet, google it. I'll get you started with the first result. https://msmagazine.com/2019/12/24/ten-feminist-victories-heard-around-the-world-from-the-last-10-years/

>I never said that I agreed with women looking to the right, it's what is happening. An increasing number of women are becoming tardthots and tradwives because their exposure to feminism is liberal feminism that does not address their concerns and dismisses them as being "right wing".

And an increasing number of women think gendercrit ideologies are full of middle class tradmommies having their gay panic moment because they're openly associating with conservative movements, sperg about "the left" not caring about women and sing the praises of openly misogynist conservative players for "giving them a platform". You don't get to complain about the masses of women gravitating towards 4th wave feminism and thinking you're not speaking for them or accusing you of being right wing if you think siding with the people who want to ban abortion or loosen sexual harassment laws is a reasonable. As a feminist I will always defend even the most conservative woman's reproductive rights and the right to her bodily autonomy and will help her when her husband beats her up, but she wouldn't do the same for me. Trying to make feminism more palatable for people like them is useless since it would mean giving up the core values of what female solidarity is.

>Many women have concerns about troons, sex work and the sexualisation of young girls.

Sorry to tell you but right wingers are filled with rapists, pedophiles and their enablers and defenders too but I guess because they're not trannies it's okay. As for sex work? I can say with confidence that they will utilize prostitutes just the same, only call them morally devoid whores while doing so.

>Speaking out against any of this is often enough to get a woman labeled as a conservative by libfems.

No, saying bonkers shit like "the right embraces us and gives us a platform!!!" is what gets you branded a conservative. They don't "give us a platform", they weaponize cherrypicked gender critical views from us to throw it back in the faces of feminists everywhere regardless of their perspective.

No. 13850

we are talking about pseudo-intellectual academic jargon

No. 13851

>pseudo-intellectual academic jargon
makes me think of this. someone posted it to ccc
>Anatomical difference (which is devoid of meaning) is transformed into a relevant social distinction for social practice. Social practice, and social practice alone, transforms a physical fact (which is devoid of meaning, like all physical facts) into a category of thought.
>And this is one of the very problems: the line between shared experiences based on "sex" and shared experiences based on the social meaning of sex (period stigma, for example) is virtually nonexistent, because experiences are always going to have a social dimension. And it's fine…
>…and in fact important to talk about the social meaning attached to sex, but you also need to be aware of the fact that all our ideas about sex are ultimately gendered or you're gonna end up naturalizing something that is social… and getting WAY too fixated on ontology
no wonder they are the way they are if this how their minds work. all this useless, frilly, wordy bullshit to say absolutely nothing

No. 13854

>Read the news for once
There's two actual victories in this. Protesting without achieving anything is not a victory, celebrating anything "feminist" happening at the UN is an oxymoron because the UN openly advocates for sex with minors and holding up Greta Thunberg as an example of feminism is retarded because she is nothing but a meme.

>sperg about "the left" not caring about women and sing the praises of openly misogynist conservative players for "giving them a platform".

I am not right wing, I am making an observation. Critique is not an attack, it's necessary to improve and progress any movement. Like it or not the current left has embraced censorship. Criticism of transgenderism being a perfect example. Anyone who questions that trans agenda is not given a platform on mainstream leftist media, while TERFs are appearing on Tucker Carlson.
>You don't get to complain about the masses of women gravitating towards 4th wave feminism
Where am I complaining about women being drawn towards feminism? My complaint is that women aren't being drawn towards feminism and are instead being taken advantage of by the right.
>sing the praises of openly misogynist conservative players
I have done no such thing, I'm making an observation of what is happening and lamenting that it is happening.
>Trying to make feminism more palatable for people like them is useless since it would mean giving up the core values of what female solidarity is.
Excluding women is not female solidarity

>Sorry to tell you but right wingers are filled with rapists, pedophiles and their enablers and defenders too

True but the difference is that the right claims to be against it while the left openly advocates for it. Normal women that aren't invested in feminist spaces are not aware of what is really happening and take the media at face value. The media actively covers up the illegal activities of politicians on both the left and the right.

>No, saying bonkers shit like "the right embraces us and gives us a platform!!!"

But that's what's happening and it's an intentional tactic of the right.

>what gets you branded a conservative

And that's the problem. I'm not right wing and I have made no right wing statements or condoned the right, yet I'm a conservative for making observations. If women keep being told that they are conservative, they will eventually believe it. Censorship is cancer because it does not change views and opinions, it solidifies them and alienates people. Falsehoods should be refuted and the truth should be acknowledged.

>They don't "give us a platform", they weaponize cherrypicked gender critical views from us to throw it back in the faces of feminists everywhere

Exactly and it's working.

No. 13866

they can either choose to recruit numbers of girls/women or they can choose to remain insular and purity spiral among themselves.
the fact remains that males are beyond dangerous so they are best avoided but when the person telling you this is also slinging around "come brain" alongside of other demeaning sentiments and/or mocking mistreated women the recipient is going to turn away from banding with other females.

No. 13868

You're acting like women tell other women mean stuff to their faces. But usually when they say edgy things it's in a space like a chatroom or a blog with 12 followers and it's just a vent

No. 13869

the person that was replying to you was boxing at shadows. immediately assuming the worst out of your words and assuming things about you that she had no basis to assume.
the trouble with communicating with other women about feminism is often they are talking when their flight/fight/freeze/fawn switch is set to ON.

No. 13870

that's your response? the reality is internet interactions have become real life, to phrase it in clunky but accurate wording. your reaction to what I am talking about is not going to land with the majority of women.
when women wake up to how misogyny underpins the basic fabric of all human civilization(s) it is like waking up into a nightmare instead of out of one and the nightmare doesn't end. it is very possible to take a long, long time to begin to understand the nature of how deep misogyny goes. that's the point of it. they do not want women to ever understand the full situation and that is why it can take an eternity to wake up.

so when you have a woman that's woken up and she is met with the purity spiraling behavior online (because, now there is nearly nowhere in the physical world to discuss actual feminism or else one runs the risk of enraging the trans mob) and intense contempt what do you think she is going to do? of course, you do not have to give a fuck about that. that's easy to do and many do just that. sure, it is a vent or can be a venting session but it is venting about how much hatred they have for their fellow women.

again, they can either recruit for numbers (meaning, to not tear down other women that are NOT actively harming girls and women) or they can keep their secret cool club mentality. if someone/a group self-identifies as feminist but acts like they cannot stand their own sex women are going to not be interested.

No. 13875

>but it is venting about how much hatred they have for their fellow women.
I agree with you. Also anyone who spends more time hating on fellow noncriminal women who don't knowingly hurt others rather than critiquing men is NOT a feminist. They're misogynists. Blaming clueless women for not being as enlightened is a mindset most fake feminists have.

No. 13879

File: 1681976201035.jpg (69.84 KB, 640x363, comedycte.jpg)

Seriously, this whole 'radfem enlightenment' thing is so sad, you act like you're better than everyone else just because you read some books by old, boring intellectuals. It's like those LA comedians who call regular people 'civilians' - so cringe. Let's be real, janitor has probably done more for women than any of those radfem intellectuals ever have. So, chill out and don't take it so seriously.

No. 13886

yes women, don't read books about feminism, don't you know it's cringe? All feminist writers were dumb and/or evil. Academia, ew! Education is for losers. You should aim to be more like people who have no idea feminist theory exists. I have no agenda

No. 13887

Reading books doesn't do anything about women, if they wanted to do something beneficial they'd volunteer in a woman's shelter, help young girls who need money for education or donate to somewhere. They don't care about women, they only care about proving how theyre superior to other women.

No. 13888

in my post here: >>13870
I was speaking against being incredibly insular and fixated on being ideologically pure to the point of hating other women that are not actively harming girls/women.

No. 13909

> you act like you're better than everyone else just because you read some books by old, boring intellectuals.
See you losers just keep parroting this shit. A lot of radfems weren’t academics and if you actually read stuff you will find plenty of it easy to read and quite relatable. This is anti-intellectualism on steroids like oh no! Writing that expects the average women to have a middle school reading level?! How out of touch of them! You know those “boring intellectuals” are the last ones who actually had/have tangible real affects on legislation. Meanwhile all you’re doing is sitting here crying and whining about how women in their spaces that are specifically dedicated to women who already ID as radical feminists expected you to read a sentence to understand what the term male-identified means

No. 13910

I agree with you anon.

No. 14116

File: 1682365162632.jpeg (157.76 KB, 750x993, BB1B279F-1AAC-4170-BDA3-1CEDCD…)

Who is she talking about?

No. 14119

it was Exulansic https://exulansic.substack.com/p/yogurtgate
some more on the radfem cows thread >>>/snow/1351285

No. 14123

Wow. Idk who these people are but both the guy and Lisa are pretty retarded. I mean this guy is clearly autistic and made the situation weird by saying “This isn’t sexual” while eating yogurt. His example of a girl saying that before eating a popsicle in front of a man was bizarre. Can we not eat food in front of people without making awkward clarifications that should be a given? Still, if it was uncomfortable the girl should have told him to eat off camera like he offered. This whole situation is stupid as hell.

No. 14139

File: 1682430030948.jpg (27.62 KB, 720x535, FVgf2D1UcAgsN8B.jpg)

I find spiritual rafems to be kind of weird because they seem to switch back and forth between sounding like conservative tardwives and actual feminists all within a few seconds, I was just listening to this radfem radio show/podcast(WLRN Episode 83) and one of the things that really stood out was how one of guests invited switched between sounding like an extreme tardwife and radfem within within seconds and it was pretty wild. Here are some interesting things she said.
>calls her womb space her spiritual place
>Some Freudian explanation men are misogynists cause they can't accept they came from women, which would we be admitting inferiority
>admitting she washes her plants with her own period blood

I cut her part in the show, you can check it yourself

No. 14144

I really do thing one of the person spreading the most usefull ideology for women is Princella with her podcast, it's maybe harsh but it does seem to be able to help some women see their situation without being pessimistic. It does crossover with ideas I saw in radical feminist writtings

No. 14529

File: 1682879832556.png (23.82 KB, 1060x540, Screenshot 15.png)

Don't know if this belongs here since there isn't a new radfem cows I don't know where else to post, Ovarit.com is currently undergoing major changes. the user base consisted mostly of women aged 30-40 who were mostly regular liberals, with some leaning towards conservatism. However, in the past year or so, the platform has seen a demographic shift with more Twitter radfems joining. Even some of the older feminist users are struggling with the Twitter radfems fetishization of revolution and the new slang being used. Additionally, there has been an increase in unironic fujos

No. 14531

>fetishization of revolution
How can this be a problem kek it’s radical feminism

No. 14532

Because it's unrealistic. a recent discussion in the Eastern European thread, we talked about how many Western intellectuals tend to romanticize violent revolution despite never having experienced it firsthand. like what do you mean by "violent revolution"

No. 14535

Are they even calling for a war? Or are the liberals on ovarit just hand-wringing about violent protests and sex strikes?

No. 14545

File: 1682930922480.jpg (105.2 KB, 960x1049, 20230501_101446.jpg)

This is so repulsive. I'm tired of my radfem mutuals sharing babylonbee just because they shit on troons

No. 14547

File: 1682944157463.jpg (254.73 KB, 1200x848, FCk6lUtXoAoWdAS.jpg)

Western "intellectuals" should not be taken seriously. Anyone calling for a violent left wing revolution or a civil war in the US, needs to get off the internet and spend more time outside in reality. This map breaks down why.

No. 14551

File: 1682955927841.jpeg (10.89 KB, 259x194, 48F5E2E8-BCDA-4DE9-9DCA-03A85A…)

Republicans derive most of their support from rural area voters. However, few people live in rural areas compared to cities. The vast majority of people in the United States live in urban areas.

Population density must be taken into account when looking at election results. A map of precincts won by a particular party is not the same as a map of the popular vote.

No. 14553

nta but the point is that a group of university students, who are likely combat inexperienced and lack material support, will not have any significant impact, beyond engaging in mild acts of vandalism and risking arrest. A historical example is the Squamish Five, a self-styled 'urban guerrilla' group that operated in Canada during the early 1980s. Despite their aspirations to inspire a national revolution, their actions mostly involved bombing shops and stores and ultimately they were arrested.

No. 14555

A lefty revolution would fail, but not because of that map. Most of the red are states that are essentially shitholes with a population of hay. NYC alone has more people living in it than some of those states.

The nonnie here >>14553 makes a better point. A sizable chunk of lefties today are twitter-revolutionaries who can't even ask for extra ketchup at McDonalds without their heartbeat racing.

No. 14557

AYRT. You're missing the point. In a civil war the blue cities would quickly be surrounded and besieged. The rural areas are where food is produced and where utilities such as power plants and reservoirs are located. The right would be able to completely cut off urban areas from power and water, as well as block food from being brought in. If anything higher population density cities would suffer more in such a scenario as law and order would quickly break down and without basic hygiene supplies disease would also be serious risk.

>A lefty revolution would fail, but not because of that map.
The areas that are controlled by the right would be the deciding factor in a civil war because it enables them to surround and lay siege to cities, control movement of resources and control utilities.

No. 14558

You are cornier than any twitter fujo with your autism

No. 14561

the existence of porn makes me want to burst into tears every time i am reminded of it. i stumbled upon the 'misogyny fetish' part of twitter a while back and saw some pretty disgusting stuff, like interviews with porn stars calling their work "empowering" or saying how they regret doing a shoot intercut with scenes from really disgusting, violent and degrading porn. i'm not the type of person to react physically to this kind of stuff but it made me feel genuinely ill. the fact that there were 18-19 year old girls following these accounts was even worse. it makes me feel hopeless that there are tons of men who jerk off to this and women who supply men with this disgusting shit.

No. 14843

I've recently come to the realization that false rape accusations don't make it harder for victims to be believed because they never believe victims in the first place. Yes, it's morally wrong and illegal depending on jurisdiction for false rape accusations, but this is just another way for women to place blame and focus their energy on other women. When a woman does something wrong, she is made an example, a model of our innate female behavior we must learn to reject. When a man does something wrong, he is an individual perpetrator, disconnected from other males. So I think media frenzies surrounding false rape accusations are an example of that theory.

No. 15108

Sorry if this doesn't go here, but I kinda need to vent right now.
The past 4 years left-wing political parties have been doing a bunch of shit in my country, like creating "trans laws", laws to change how justice will deal with domestic abuse and rapes, etc. Feminists were not happy with all these laws, especially radfems, and that's understandable. Most of them felt betrayed.
And today my country held local elections. The conservative parties won and the left-wing political parties lost a bunch of votes.
I know what happened is 100% the fault of left-wing supporters. I hate how we keep creating small political parties nobody gives a shit about, just because left-wing people can't bother to reach agreements between themselves. No. We need a political party for each one of us. Right.
Then you look at right-wing parties and there's like… two of them? And right-wing people vote them always, all their life. They don't go around making small political right-wing parties that catter to their very specific needs.
I go to Twitter and all I see is radfems laughing at how the well known/bigger left-wing parties are not getting enough support. Bitch, wtf? I know those left-wing politicians are pro-trans, but wtf? I very much prefer living in a country that is pro-trans, but where at least abortion is legal and homosexuality is not a sin. We even have a far right-wing party that is starting to get more and more support each year. And you are laughing? Stop laughing, this is no joke. These women are so naïve is insane. If you read their recent tweets about the elections you would mistake them for far right-wing supporters, because they are using the same fucking vocabulary and insults. Fuck off. You don't have the right to call yourself a radfem. You keep throwing shit at your own roof.
I sometimes get depressed when I look at the political state of my country. I hate how we have a far right political party that is getting more supporters. I hate it so much. But what I hate the most is how feminists can't fucking agree to do something together and fight all the conservative shit in this fucking country. It's not difficult at all, ffs.

>inb4 i'm right-wing and radfem!1!1!!!

this is not about you, retard. also, i don't fucking care.

No. 15113

nonnie are u also from Spain? I think also what happened is that Podemos is such an embarrassment to politics and a lot of people started to realize this after the new trans laws and the Solo si es si (I think they dissappeared from Madrid, Valencia and Bcln afaik)
And honestly as much as I hate the conservative parties here I hate the way that podemos dealt with any criticism and how they thought they could just get away with everything. Im not sad to see them go after seeing how they cape so hard for the trans movement (SPECIALLY trans women, since you never heard them mention trans men, I wonder why kek)

No. 15114

File: 1685326620973.png (6.62 KB, 721x162, Captura de pantalla (1541).png)

Yes, nonnie I'm from Spain!! (I guess I should keep talking in English, I didn't post this in the Feminismo Hispano thread because it didn't had much traffic and I think the two or three nonas there are from latam)
>Podemos is such an embarrassment to politics and a lot of people started to realize this
>Im not sad to see them go after seeing how they cape so hard for the trans movement
Yes, totally. As I said, most radfems felt betrayed by Podemos, me included. So yeah, I'm not sad to see them dissapear, but I think radfems were wrong about casting null votes or refusing to vote. In doing that, they favored the right-wing parties. Like, in Valencia? Vox is going to end up collaborating with PP to get absolute majority. Fucking Vox. This wouldn't have happened if we didn't have quatrizillion left-wing political parties dividing left-wingers and feminists went to vote.
Radfems on twitter keep talking about how they did this so they can "create a better left uwu". There's no "better left", because left-wingers are never happy. Like, literally, someone was posting about how she was casting a null vote because the left wing government was not fixing a particular issue she was unhappy about and I was like "wtf, so you are going to favor right-wingers then?".
I'm sorry I'm rambling so much, but I feel so frustrated and anxious about what happened. I don't want Vox in the government, I would prefer a tranny president over fucking Santiago Abascal any day.

No. 15579

File: 1686074543973.png (56.92 KB, 959x751, Screenshot.png)

So, I get hating men and I get ranting against them, but I don't understand the strange denial of reality that a small number of radfems meme themselves into believing. They claim that women are just as physically strong as men, and can even be stronger, and that female athletes don't have the correct mentality because they don't compete against men and beat them. these radfemds(who aren't typically known for being sporty), claim to know more than actual female athletes and trainers because they simply regurgitate the theories of women studies professors from the 1970s

No. 15583

Yeah they're kinda dumb and anti-science. Why do they care if women are not as physically strong anyway?

No. 15586

They have a correlation with the "Gender war" LARPers, the one's who genuinely believe that gender war will happen and that women will win, None of them provided specific details; just mention the need to be 'violent' or some vague language. Just last month, I had an argument with a mutual acquaintance about this topic. She invoked Shulamith Firestone and quoted her saying 'Power, whatever its origins, however it is evolved, will not be given up without a struggle.' and that men will not ever give up power, so we have to literally fight them in a physical conflict, again I get despising men and wanting to avoid men, but for me It's important to stop living in a fantasy world and instead focus on realistic solutions.

No. 15619

What would be those realistic solutions? I'm not trying to start a fight, I genuinely want to know what can be done thats realistic.

No. 15633

probably anything other then, wanting to start some actual war, like what are you gonna even do, just to to a guy and try to fight him or some shit.

No. 15663

honestly all we can really do is try to get more women in politics who actually care about womens rights. beyond that the only things you can do are changes in your personal life like excommunicaating men from your social circle if they do misogynistic shit, or altogether if thats what youre about.

No. 15741

Have you all seen this Youtube content creator named Princella/The High Powered podcast?
She’s built quite a following using a lot of radfem talking points like how men are incapable of love and female separatism to people that haven’t heard them before but she acts like she’s the first one to ever come up with those concepts. When people point out that those radfem talking points have been around for a long time and mention other radfem activists, she gets really defensive and angry. She did a 30 minute segment in one of her videos angry about another woman “copying her work” even though she’s just been regurgitating radfem talking points herself.
Now she’s doing videos on how women should have compassion for men because of their suicide rates and how they’re victims of patriarchy, leboohoo. She’s even mentioned before how she wants to talk to Jordan Peterson and she’s doing an interview with Charleston White who admitted to graping women. I think that she’s an egotistical charlatan. Maybe I’m not ~*enlightened*~ enough to understand her. She seems to use a lot of woo and toxic positivity concepts too.
She’s one of those types where if anybody says anything contrary to her, she’ll immediately deflect and say that the person is in their ego so it’s a “them” problem, not her. I am happy radfem talking points are getting out there again, but not like this.

No. 15757


I was hoping someone might talk about this. I’d been watching her stuff for a few months because I was happy to see how she was promoting separatist ideals, but there are so many red flags. Acting like she’s the only one who has ever talked about men’s incapacity to love, or semen chemical warfare, or the implications of testosterone, is just incorrect. And yet she trashed on radfems and separatists who DID pioneer those concepts. The way she shut down the callers and the chat as “operating on ego” for questioning this woo woo goddesses have compassion thing is also messed up. If not having compassion for males that commit femicide or grape or anything like that means I’m “moving in hate” and not “spiritually enlightened” then oh well.

No. 15758

Oh my goodness, Nona. Thank you so much for replying and validating how I’ve been feeling about her. It’s been swirling around in my head the past couple of days, making me question if I’m interpreting her correctly because I’ve been getting really bad feelings from the way she has been acting when she’s presented with opposing viewpoints and from her spouting woo concepts. I’m not very good at articulating things like this but I knew something was off.

The fact that she’s making people question their reality is a bad sign in and of itself. She’s gaslighting people and she set up an environment where people have to walk around on eggshells and can’t speak out against her. Sounds like an abusive and manipulative person to me, despite her claiming she’s all about love and positivity.

I’ve been watching her for a couple months too. I started to see red flags, like her slowly introducing woo concepts like the law of attraction and other victim blaming type of spirituality like “you choose your parents” and “like attracts like”. It removes all accountability to the people who do bad things and like every good cult-like idea, it has defense baked into its foundations. "Oh, it didn’t work for you? That's your fault, you must not be believing hard enough." Same with her with her just immediately running to the “you’re just operating in your ego” excuse to shut down any discourse or criticism about her.

> If not having compassion for males that commit femicide or grape or anything like that means I’m “moving in hate” and not “spiritually enlightened” then oh well.

THIS, so much. Thank you for putting it into words. I feel the same way. I actually was a paid member and I cancelled my subscription today over it. I’m done with her.

No. 15759

Also, I think she’s being disingenuous by saying that someone was trying to claim she’s a radical feminist. They were just trying to educate her that her talking points came from other radfem decades ago. Instead of her being open and understanding, she gets in her ego saying “Well, I’ve never seen any other content creators on here doing it like I do it” as if YouTube is the epitome of education, lol. She doesn’t even care to learn about other women who have came before her. She’s explicitly said she knows nothing about radical feminism and doesn’t care to learn. You can’t tell her anything. I hate to agree with what men criticize about her but it is very cultish where you can’t speak out against the hive mind. She isn’t receptive to any constructive criticism or opposing views to her talking points, even when people are coming at her nicely, then her followers will jump down your throat too.

No. 15761

Aw nonna you’re welcome. Good on you for not just falling in line like most of the viewers did, it is totally cult-like as you said. I think a major problem is how there are so few voices online that actually put forth separatist ideals, so when we see one, we get excited and think maybe someone finally gets us. But sadly we have to always keep our guard up and treat everyone with suspicion.
Women shouldn’t be told they need to let go of their anger about male violence. Society actually needs MORE anger at things like that. If anger is “spiritually low” or is going to prevent me from “ascending spiritually” then something is clearly wrong with the spirit world. It’s ridiculous how mystical types act like no one should feel anything other than peacefulness and love, much like how wrath is a sin in Christianity. I also noticed her express anti-vaxx stuff, which lines up with the woo. Your feelings are totally reasonable, don’t feel bad at all, nonna.

No. 15815

File: 1687008323067.png (34.5 KB, 800x896, PA.png)

This is sadly accurate.

No. 15825

I’d be for prison abolishment if we brought back public execution and humiliation , flogging and banishment for rapists, murders, pedos, pimps and the like.

No. 15826

depend on the context for murder and assault, I remember a case where a man was put in life in prison for murdering a teacher who was molesting his sister and so I think some leniency should be shown in such cases.

No. 15828

What I meant to say was murderers not murders, so maybe thats why you thought I meant all murders deserve harsh punishment because its just common sense that crimes like murder, assault, and stealing need context. Atleast I hope its common sense for half way sane people.

No. 15941

What’s your opinion on dark romance books? Romance is the most popular genre. Dark romance is very popular. The books include things that require trigger warnings like noncon/dubcon (aka rape), assault, violence, kidnapping…

No. 15942

some aspect of social conditioning and prevailing menial illness.

No. 15960

We should burn them at stake

No. 16021

Lel this libfem meme of a euphemism for violently assaulting someone

>What’s your opinion on dark romance books?

>(aka rape), assault, violence, kidnapping…
They're fine if they only involve the rape and dismemberment of males

No. 16175

I wanted to hear thoughts about this. What I got out of this vid is that while confusing what free will really consists of, people are better off with better choices if people are living in good stable lives. And I believe that for the most part. Except how men of all classes, hell, even the world leaders are men but they don't become pro-woman activists even with all the resources in the world. The video mentions better education. I'm pretty sure everyone knows rape is bad, women are humans equal to men. Does it mean they're not educated enough? Is it women who need to educate them? It's frustrating.

No. 16212

File: 1688772814189.jpg (122.74 KB, 830x434, Screenshot_20230707-163003_Fac…)

Things like this always go to show that people who hate TERFs have never actually talked to one
, ever. This was on a post about how a woman was letting her gross husband cum on her blanket all the time. Someone said she must be a TERF because TERFs let men get away with anything. Many TERFs actually hate men, which is why we hate TIMs. These handmaidens never have any idea what they're talking about.

No. 16432

Im curious if the arguement that make 'soliciting sex work illegal' also applies to those ""independent"" sex workers who go into it on their own (OnlyFans, etc) I want to know what would be way to go around this? Im sorry i couldnt explain this better its hard to type out

No. 16587

To be fair it's hard to argue with stuff like this when "TERF" groups are constantly astroturfed by tradtards who think Matt Walsh is going to save us from the trannies. True radical feminists are becoming a minority in their own spaces.

No. 16713

> I very much prefer living in a country that is pro-trans, but where at least abortion is legal and homosexuality is not a sin.

That's because you're an intelligent person capable of evaluating tradeoffs and recognizing, correctly, that there is no outcome where women losing abortion rights or gay people being pushed back into the shadows is good. It makes me livid to see the ovarit losers in the US talking about how they're not voting for dems, shitty as they are, because of the trans shit. The right wing literally wants to get rid of abortion and no-fault divorce to force women back into being shackled to shitty men and pumping out babies. Trans are a miniscule portion of the population. Way more women in my life have had to deal with abortion and divorce than mtfs in women's spaces.

Trans shit has absolutely colonized feminist spaces, either in handmaidenry or reeing about how it's the number one issue women are facing. I swear I can't go a single day without someone bringing up being for against transgender shit. When I think about the major issues women face (poverty, domestic violence, unfair/uncompensated domestic/emotional/care labor, general reproductive justice), the amount of oxygen that trans shit takes up is dumb. Yes, the ideology is a big problem for talking about women's health and force-teaming women and mtfs/trying to tell autistic and lesbian women that they're not really women. But we have to prioritize if we actually care about liberating women. I'd rather collaborate with some he/they autistic female to protect abortion than team up with forced-birthers to remove gender identity from the law. Most trans ideology problems are cultural anyway. You can't legislate away people on tumblr or Tiktok talking about their microgenders. That work has to be bottom-up with solely feminist principles, no right-wing interference at all.

No. 16727

Maybe I'm too schizo blackpilled on politics but I don't even think the American right is going to stop the trans stuff. I think they'll throw voters some culture war bones (no rainbow stuff in public, no mandated pronouns, no gay marriage) but I can't see Republicans getting in the way of pharma corporations and billions of dollars in profit. In Iran medical transition is used as a cure and punishment for homosexuals. Thailand is a global leader in transition surgery but gay marriage is still illegal. I think they're going to do the exact opposite of gender critical ideals, discourage homosexuality and harmless GNC behavior while encouraging expensive medical intervention for 'degenerates'. I wouldn't be surprised to see hormones and puberty blockers rebranded as celibacy aides in a Republican Theocracy. Your daughter has a crush on an actress? Here's some pills to block that diseased libido until she finds Christ. The party that wants to force 12-year old girls to birth rape babies is not actually concerned about children's health.

No. 16728

Exactly, especially since many of them self describe as TERFs. The other day I saw some "TERF" caping for Desantis on Twitter. I wish the larpers would fuck off instead of showing up and destroying our credibility with their half-baked politics.

No. 16733

the ovarit women are doing it because they are adult women whose lives are settled and are prioritizing child safety over themselves, not because they're "stupid"

No. 16737

File: 1689697331924.png (423.53 KB, 1120x732, 456.png)

>child safety

No. 17765

adopting or fostering little girls is one of the most feminist act and I don't give a fuck what other doomer feminist say. You may die screaming writting manifestos but raising the most vulnerable group of girls of the next generation is the most important thing you can do. Organize to create a support system, take care of them and help other feminist who will do so.

No. 17767

you are %100 correct I didn't know this was an unpopular opinion

No. 17771

Abort male fetuses

No. 17772

Never saw anybody saying or writting it tho

No. 18017

I think it's so frustrating when you point out that something was made by someone or some group that is extremely fucked up/misogynistic and it's someone who you consider a fellow radfem and they just don't care and keep supporting x media. I would just like to say that I understand most media is misogynistic in some way, and it would be impossible to avoid all of it, BUT- I'm talking the most misogynistic despicable creator makes a game and radfems still choose to support them. Like I get it, it's not fun to boycott media, but what are we even doing, what do we even stand for if we don't 'vote with our dollar'? Why show support to these people at all? There's so much things you can do all day, so much media, so many hobbies, why die on this hill? Like I said, I'm not a paragon of virtue but my god. It's so frustrating.

No. 18111

I believe that radfem spaces have become breeding grounds for outcasted women with mental disorders and conservative leaning women who believe they're radfem because they hate the gays and trannies. That's why misogyny has been so rampant as of late.

No. 18112

Are you confusing gender critical spaces with radical feminist spaces? Why would conservative leaning women who hate gays and trannies be attracted to radical feminism or feminism at all?

No. 18117

They don't know what radfem is. I saw a few "radfems" on tiktok whose whole dream is to live by the nature as a housewife and give birth to 10 kids while their husbands work. A lot of people think radical means rightist and although I'm hopeful that some of those women will pick up a few ideas from radfem spaces, some of them do a bad job hiding their misogyny.

No. 18130

NTA but I hate how the word radfem is being coopted by other groups and is being watered down to just mean 'anything someone thinks is transphobic'. We're so much more than that and gender critical beliefs are only a small corner of our fight. I swear the internet has made this problem so much worse.

No. 18172

Yeah that was my point, women who are transphobic(so majority of women because they dislike men in their spaces naturally!) all believe it makes them a radfem - no it just makes them a woman with boundaries.

No. 18291

It's become so watered down

No. 18447

Anons, what are some ways to help women or the movement? Do you know any good organizations to donate to? Any books you'd recommend on rasfem essentials that aren't degen like some authors works?

No. 18765

File: 1691684320858.png (298.22 KB, 957x1532, radical feminism 2.png)

What is radical femininsm to nonas, really? I was under the impression it was simply acknowledging the female sex exists, and all oppression stems from that fact. But I lurk tranny servers (this is from a Utena server where everyone has pronouns in their d/n as you can see) and they speak of radical feminism like it's some self-defeating circle…one mostly centered around males

No. 18769

>What is radical femininsm to nonas, really?
From Wikipedia: "radical feminism is a perspective within feminism that calls for a radical reordering of society in which male supremacy is eliminated in all social and economic contexts. Radical feminists view society as fundamentally a patriarchy in which men dominate and oppress women." This is a universal definition, which applies to everyone who calls herself a radical feminist. However, where radfems differ and can't agree on is how the liberation from patriarchal norms, culture, standards and roles will be achieved. Many believe that men's behavior as we see it now is inherent to them. Those radfems tend to advocate for separatism. But there are also those who believe that men's misogynistic tendencies stem from socialization and culture, and that changing laws and shifting cultural standards will fix the problem.

Personally, I agree with the she/her user in the screencap, it's men's nature, not nurture, so trying to collaborate with them on any level can only result in minimal or temporary changes. Males promise but don't deliver, or they deliver but take it away (referencing the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which didn't even get the backlash it deserved).

>and they speak of radical feminism like it's some self-defeating circle…one mostly centered around males

Radical feminism is exclusively centered around women, and is the only branch of feminism afaik that does not even welcome men to be members of the movement.

No. 18771

>What is radical femininsm to nonas, really?
In a technical sense, I understand radical feminism as a branch of feminism that derived much of its ideological bedrock from Marxism and borrowed liberatory strategies from other contemporaneous leftist movements such as the Black separatist movement. Marx spoke on how women are exploited for reproductive and domestic labor, and this informed radical feminist concepts of how patriarchy functions and maintains itself. Whittled away to its barest essentials, it's about liberating women from patriarchy, which is conceptualized as a system with a beneficiary class (men) and an exploited class (women). What differentiated radical feminism from pre-existing feminist movements was its willingness to name male supremacy for what it is, and its insistence on taking radical action to dramatically re-order society and destroy patriarchy.

Proposed solutions varied quite a lot, and this did (and still does) lead to a lot of infighting, but the idea that radical feminism was a "failure" is pretty dubious and bad faith imo. No leftist movement has ever been successful at completely accomplishing its goals, but people love to leave "you didn't destroy patriarchy in the two decades you were active" at radical feminists' feet while ignoring the very real successes it accomplished for women. If that's the metric we're using, no movement has ever been successful, and that renders this person's entire argument pretty malicious and bad faith to me.

>and they speak of radical feminism like it's some self-defeating circle

They love to frame radical feminism as self-cannibalizing because radical feminists rather famously believe(d) that "the personal is political" and therefore women can and should take personal action within their lives to support and uplift other women. This did (and again, still does) lead to a lot of friction among women because personal action can mean anything from "buy from woman-owned businesses" and "abort your male fetus." The nurture vs. nature debate is long-standing, and this person is right that you can slip into a self-defeating mentality because if males are just inherently evil and there's nothing to be done…then there's nothing to be done, that's where your movement stops. The human race cannot continue without males, so killing them all is not viable, nor is enslaving them (and that's putting aside most women would obviously not be fine with this.) But in modern times this is called being "blackpilled," and it's hardly a default radical feminist position. If it was, there wouldn't be so much literature on different strategies for liberation. Many radical feminists did believe it was nurture, and some believed it was a combination of both (but that nature could be curbed by nurture, or at least laws.) Some believed that the nurture was so powerful because we are so deeply steeped in patriarchy, it may as well be nature, and this is part of why many women started to separate. Even if it is fixable, oppressors aren't generally interested in ceding their power, and so the amount of class consciousness it would take to dismantle patriarchy in a systemic way was just not achievable, hence many of them just living on communes away from men.

There are a lot of modern day "radfems" who have never read theory and don't subscribe to radical feminist ideology in any meaningful way beyond tranny bashing (which wasn't even a lockstep position during radical feminism's heyday) and calling women whores (would certainly be frowned upon by OG radical feminists), but I chalk this up to social media brainrot. There are women on here who disparage radical feminists and everything they stood for while proudly identifying themselves as radfems. I don't necessarily affiliate with radical feminism because so many self described radfems treat it like a fandom (and are allergic to actually learning anything), but this Utena server person obviously has an axe to grind, and based on the pronouns, I think it's rather obvious why.

No. 18772

why can't society continue without males? It's already proven that women can have kids with each other.

No. 18775

As far as I'm aware, we have not achieved parthenogenesis or two females having children together without the assistance of sperm from males. I just looked it up again and there's buzz about preliminary studies, potential experiments, etc., but absolutely zero cases of this actually being implemented in humans, much less successfully. This article is from 2020 and confirms they haven't even been able to successfully do this in mice yet (as the offspring generally die very quickly or are born with defects): https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/the-slow-march-toward-the-first-same-sex-couple-to-have-a-baby but of course if there's some news story I am not aware of, feel free to share it.

It's very possible they will figure it out, but even if they do, we are just not going to be rolling out this tech quickly or affordably enough to replace males, at least not for a very, very long time. Further, many women are attracted to men and would not want to live on an all-female planet, simple as. I'm not one of those women (I am a lesbian who trends towards separatism), but attaching moral dimensions to sexual orientation is what gave rise to political lesbianism, and those women truly could not reverse conversion therapy themselves no matter how badly they wanted to. And even if they could, you are just never going to convince billions of women to let their male friends and family die, or convince them that it would make for a better society if those men didn't exist.

The "all female world" concept is a niche thought experiment that is wholly divorced from reality and what the vast majority of women actually want. It is so impractical for so many reasons it boggles my mind that anyone has actually tried to organize around it. It's a dead end and we need to put our energy into actually engaging with the reality we live in. And the reality is 99% of women don't actually want men to disappear, they just want their oppression to end.

Society could technically continue without males–IF we developed tech for women to have children without them, IF this tech was widely accessible, and IF billions of women agreed to eliminate the demographic they are attracted to and is full of their loved ones. And even IF all that was accomplished, it would still take a long ass time. These are not arbitrary hurdles, they are enormous gulfs that make this whole idea so impractical that it doesn't make sense to seriously propose it as a solution. I also don't see the point in building a world that other women wouldn't want to live in.

No. 18776

Good, thorough responses. Thank you, anon.

No. 18791

File: 1691766192421.png (522.6 KB, 452x678, shulman.png)

This person seems to have read a handful of feminist texts but doesn't actually understand anything. OG Radical feminists don't believe that men are inherently bad; if anything, they believed that men and women are much more similar than everyone thought at the time. Reading Shulamith Firestone and Andrea Dworkin and even Germaine Greer you see they were invested in the idea that men and women are not that different. Greer thinks women don't actually have more fat than men and that male scientists are just biased because they want "cuddly" women. Remember sex science in the 70s was way less advanced than it is today, so a lot of feminists thought/hoped that men and women weren't actually that different and women might be able to catch up with men physically. Firestone hoped we would have artificial wombs one day to free women from the burden of pregnancy and childbirth. This is not consistent with the idea that "men are biologically evil" at all. Both Firestone and (early) Dworkin advocate for the idea that in the future, men and women will be more similar than different and we'll live in a bisexual world. The only 'blackpill' to them was the idea that society had gotten so misogynistic that it would take centuries to undo all the harm.

Secondly, radical feminism didn't 'fail'. A lot of its points simply got absorbed into the mainstream. The idea that violence against women is one of the major ways by which men control women is a radical feminist idea. The idea that women's history is worth studying and that "feminine traits" should be reevaluated independently from men was a radical feminist idea. The idea that women should focus on female friendships is a radical feminist idea. Libfems can talk about how much they hate men and how sisterhood is good and how rape is a serious issue and how we live in a misogynistic society because radical feminists pushed the overton window.

The place where radical feminism failed is arguably too ahead of its time. The anti-porn movement was made at a time when porn was something only weird perverts watched, so the idea that porn would become mainstream and something everyone would be exposed to felt bizarre. Also, radical feminists were interested in reclaiming female sexuality (see Germaine Greer), so the idea of being anti-porn took a while to develop. Now that we live in a world where porn is everywhere, this critique of porn is far more poignant. I won't mention female separatism because that's part of lesbian feminism which was not actually a part of radical feminism and the two camps were often at odds.

The next time somebody makes these sweeping points about radical feminism, ask them which specific BOOKS they read. If it's a book summarizing feminist history, ignore them, because the amount of historical revisionism about second wave feminism is insane. Ask them - which specifics books BY radical feminists have they read? Woman-hating by Dworkin? The Female Eunuch by Germaine Greer? The Redstockings manifesto? If they can't tell you, ignore them, because their exposure to radical feminism is likely just the terminally online people on Tumblr (who also don't know anything about OG radical feminism) or liberal 'histories' of feminism that treat radical feminism as a side chapter.

If you actually want to learn about the history of feminism through the ORIGINAL WRITINGS of the time, I recommend picrel. It has writings from a wide variety of feminists from the 60s to modern day. It opened my eyes to how many lies I'd been told about feminist history. The idea that feminism "only" focused on white middle class women? A lie, there are countless references to the Civil Rights movement, socialism, even Vietnam. Feminism was deeply tied with other radical social movements of the time. (Obviously since a lot of the writers are middle class white women who went to college, they don't do the best job of covering other topics. But they definitely brought them up and tried, even when they failed.) And all the excerpts are from the time period. If you're ready for more critical reading, I also recommend 'Female Masculinities and the Gender Wars' by Finn Mackay. Finn wrote a book on radical feminism, and although she's definitely in the gender waters now, she absolutely knows her stuff about the history of feminism and radical feminism specifically.

No. 18799

>A lot of its points simply got absorbed into the mainstream.
Ntayrt but I forgot to mention this in my comment and I think it's really important to emphasize this. Many women have radical feminists ideas rolling around in their heads and aren't aware that they are radical feminist concepts (and would likely be put off if they knew), and that's incredibly important and impressive given how thoroughly radical feminism has been misrepresented (even by self proclaimed radfems.)

>I won't mention female separatism because that's part of lesbian feminism which was not actually a part of radical feminism and the two camps were often at odds.
I think this is a tenuous position. Lesbian feminism was formed by radical femists due to discontent with their alienation within the movement, hence why many of them incorporated radical feminism into their names and theories (such as "Radicalesbians".) Many lesbian feminists perceived their movement as being located within radical feminism, not outside of it, and it's why major lesbian feminist theorists such as Audre Lorde, Mary Daly, and Adrienne Rich additionally called themselves radical feminists/radical lesbian feminists, have been recorded as radical feminists in historical documentation, are remembered as radical feminist theorists, etc.

I think there's something to be said for a "flattening" of radical feminism, an almost purposeful ignorance of variance of thought within the movement (such as differing beliefs on the ethics of butch/femme and female masculinity in general), but these schools of thought were so intimately interwoven it feels odd to try and separate them as being mutually exclusive/differentiated to such a degree we can no longer identify separatism as a radical feminist idea. Even when reading lesbian feminist writings, they frame their disagreements as ones with other radical feminists as a cohort rather than a wholly separated camp.

Sorry to autistically fixate on this one sentence out of a very well-thought out and articulate comment, I just hesitate to go so far as to say that the lesbian feminist theory that emerged from radical feminism as a movement was different, rather than related, and part of broader intra-community discourse.

That said, I have not read the book in your picrel, and have it in my cart right now (thank you for the recommendation, even if it was for someone else!), so it's very possible it will change my attitude on the topic.

No. 18827

What do other anons feel about the Madonna-Whore complex? I don't know what to call it, but there's a highly insane percentage of men who internalize this shit it's surprising to know of a man without a Madonna-Whore complex. There's also men out there who don't think their issue is sexual, but deep down, it pretty much is. They're more likely to give into it when they're depressed or extremely stressed. I don't doubt many men have these behaviors come to light in darkness and they're ashamed to be associated with it, but it's the truth. They're only genuinely nice to women they view as wife material or attractive, but when it comes to lust, all those core values are thrown out the window. Only the personally unattractive women and "women" could fuel this impulse, because the respectable women in their lives could not be such a sinful thing. The non-sexual side of it, a man could internalize the thought that a respectable woman shouldn't be tainted in some way, so he shouldn't taint her and would rather interact with those who are already tainted or are easily disposable.
People say this is a complex present in narcissists, which I can see as true, but I believe it also extends to those without narcissistic traits, such as the non-sexual part of it. The whole "This is Your Brain on Porn" where exposure to porn affects all relationships in life and even if you don't like watching porn at all. This shit runs so deep.
Many of my relationship issues surrounded the Madonna-Whore complex to some degree.
I had an ex who trooned out, one of the more ultimate ways to objectify women, he just decided he could easily "become" one to satisfy his desires.
I had another ex who was so sex/porn addicted, we wouldn't have sex for months. He would go out of his way to have sex with escorts and would donate to multiple women creating porn online. Within our long term relationship, he dropped over $11,000 to fuel his addiction. Meanwhile, we would be struggling to pay bills, barely ever spent time together, etc. This guy was a narcissist.
My current relationship, his Madonna-Whore complex was so extreme, he would reach out to types of women he wasn't sexually or romantically attracted to, with extreme mental illnesses and white, and men who objectify themselves as feminine anonymously. In his head, these interactions weren't sexual but more of a form of escapism, but this was something he kept a semi-secret from me, because he knew if I knew what he was actually doing, I wouldn't like it. When he was younger, he admitted he once had sex with a stranger, and had a moment of "what am I doing with my life" realization after it happened and called his friend in the middle of a panic attack to tell him he fucked up so bad while the woman was asleep on the other side of the room. During this relationship, I would struggle with not being sexually satisfied and not feeling like I was being cared for. He says, because I'm so unique, perfect, mature, and caring, being with anyone else wouldn't make him as ever happy as he's ever felt being with me. This mistake will forever haunt him. From my previous relationship, I made it an effort to tell my boyfriend when I felt sexually aroused and when I wanted him to hold me and touch me, but he would majority of the time push back with being stressed from everyday life, yet he had these fits in that stress where he would go out of his way, for hours in a day, to anonymously interact with people who fundamentally have no value to his everyday life.
How could we get men to recognize this shit is ruining their lives and their futures? Moreover, the non-sexual side of the whore complex as well, because that also affects the sexual side altogether? How early can we get boys and men to overcome this?
Overall, how can this be resolved so other women will not have to become victim to this complex at any degree, now and in the future? How can we have fulfilling long term relationships with men? Many of us want to be mothers, how can we secure a relationship when this complex exists?
Is the only way men can overcome this is to associate with men who have overcome that complex and who outwardly speak of the dangers of having such mindset?

No. 18844

File: 1691891822531.png (22.23 KB, 772x207, dworkinquote.png)

The Madonna-Whore complex is most obvious in how men view escorts, women in porn, etc. As in, they see these women as disgusting, damaged, and not worth "bringing home to mama," but will still gladly sexually gratify himself to her exploitation. This is a core mechanism of patriarchy and how we socially understand women's sexualities: women must be sexually available, but if they are, they are garbage. This is because women are objects to be owned and prizes to be won–if you do not see women as fully fledged individuals with interiority, it makes perfect sense as to why they simultaneously desire and revile sex workers, to the point those women's lives are valued less than a farm animal's. The core problem is the way men refuse to see women's humanity. A woman is either a sex object or she is a potential wife, but she cannot be both, and neither one of these archetypes allow her to be a full person. In one of your examples, you point out a man who almost seems to view it as escapism–this is extremely telling because it further proves he sees them as fantasy, unreal in some way, intangible and therefore not worth respecting.

It would be easy to think women becoming Madonnas–virginal until marriage, submissive, and existing only for a man to fully understand himself as one–would resolve this, but it won't. This cannot be resolved without a dramatic dismantling of patriarchy, which would require dissolving marriage's power as an institution and abolishing porn altogether. Marriage was constructed as a way for a man to own his wife like property, not to join with her as an equal partner. That's why it was (and still is) legal in many parts of the world for him to beat, rape, and torture her. The false choice here helps women perpetuate their own suffering; many are convinced that if they can just become a Madonna, they can escape the dehumanization of the whore, but this is fruitless. In many cases, the husband will compartmentalize his attraction to women and his hatred of them, relegating the Madonna to domestic labor while seeking sexual labor from the whore.

Dworkin wrote on this in "Right Wing Women" (picrel), noting that many women are not aware of how false a choice this is. The Madonna and the whore both judge each other. The Madonna wonders how the Whore can accept being treated like she's for sale (an object), and the Whore wonders how the Madonna can accept being treated like she's property (an object). It's a Catch-22, an unwinnable, cruel game that women are expected to play within patriarchy, and the only individual way to opt out is, well, to opt out. Dworkin also argues in "Pornography: Men Possessing Women" that within patriarchy, women are just a "thing" while men are granted the privilege of humanity. Women are located within, not outside of, male ego.

She wrote, "Woman is not born: she is made. In the making, her humanity is destroyed. She becomes symbol of this, symbol of that: mother of the earth, slut of the universe; but she never becomes herself because it is forbidden for her to do so." And I think it sums up what I think pretty well.

No. 18847

>it's surprising to know of a man without a Madonna-Whore complex
Men created the Madonna-Whore box around women. The men these days don't even understand the Madonna-Whore cage, but the know they inherited it from many years of patriarchy and still use it, despite feminism tearing it down a lot the past century. It's their cage. It was completely made on purpose to steer us into either being wives to serve them or sex workers to serve them. Notice you can't be a normal girl who just wants to have some sex here and there. That can't exist in their paradigm.

It does not benefit any man when a woman is completely free like that. When we are free like that, they learn they must actually perform, like earing money, looking good, or behaving better. Men must become competitive to a win a woman's heart, which is the natural order of things. Just look at nature and how male animals must perform and impress the woman or literally have his genes die off.
>How do we fix this erosion of normal relationships?
It is actually being fixed right now. That's what incels are perpetually whining about. They're so mad we have choice and nature's order is going back to what it was. We will not choose the obvious low effort men and they know they're genetic dead ends. It's why they hate intelligent women who understand all of this and why they perpetually try to dehumanize, hoping we'll believe we're lessers or like dogs or property when we're literally fixing a natural order system to remove bad DNA that the ancient patriarchy fucked up. They are terrified knowing they must do their best (which, their choice, they choose not to do) or they will die alone.

No. 18881

There was one Jordan Peterson video I agreed with is how intelligent women are single for longer in their lifetime and it's a good thing because she's weeding out the retarded men who try to approach her and the ones she dates who she realizes she's not compatible with. He said this to Mikhaila and she agreed.
With regards to incels, a lot of them could be smart, but they don't like the fact that just any woman wouldn't want to date them, especially a woman with a similar or higher intelligence as them. A woman having her own boundaries and making radical life altering decisions frustrates these men who are subconsciously expecting her to be instantly submissive, when he can hardly even prove he's trustworthy enough to be relied on.
Just thinking about it, so many intelligent men these days are too afraid to do anything, they'll point the finger at everything except themselves for the reason why they can't keep long term relationships.

No. 18883

Video from a mood, but he put a whole different perspective on polyamorous relationships. Especially ones that involve only one woman, it makes me even angrier for them. They're usually the ones who are too good for these men and she's usually doing all the housework, while her main man wasn't enough when it came to sexual interaction, he couldn't fulfill her sexual desires to have him take lead, they bring in another man. That way now she can be dominated by two men in bed, but still do everything around the house, because at least that part of her sex life is fulfilled. Men will literally convince a woman to bring in another man in the relationship instead of being mature and working on himself to be the man the woman is expecting him to be.

No. 18918

>Especially ones that involve only one woman, it makes me even angrier for them
Why? These women are willing victims and masochistic to put up with this abuse and casual degradation. All we can do as women is nudge them into the right direction, if they are stupid enough to drink troon, violent male and libfem koolaid there is nothing you can feasibly do to undo this when they are secure in their masochism. What do you gain by yelling into the void and becoming "angry" over their willing exploitation? I understand this sentiment over things that are truly out of the victims control like human trafficking and child abuse but these are adult people who choose to live like this. Its not your job to teach masochistic women to see themselves as human nor save them with a false martyr complex. These women play stupid games and consequently win stupid prizes.

>They're(the women) usually the ones who are too good for these men

>Men will literally convince a woman to bring in another man in the relationship instead of being mature and working on himself to be the man the woman is expecting him to be.

This is not radically feminist at all, like the Madonna whore complex anons text wall >>18827

>How early can we get boys and men to overcome this?

You both don't want women actually freed from the cage of patriarchal oppression by engaging in separatism, self reflection and actual critical radical feminism. You only want women to have a slightly larger cage. The only difference is that that anon focused on "how do we change men because women want kids?" whereas your focus is "how do we change masochistic women and how do we change men to work on themselves". Both posts may very well have fitted better in the vent/relationship threads. Radical feminism doesn't mean you become a braindead martyr for masochistic women and drop all critical credence nor is the goal of radical feminism to change men to be "better" so that they "work on themselves" as if radical feminism boils down to the female dating strategy lol. The purpose of radical feminism isn't to make men better and coddle masochistic women.

No. 18926

File: 1692056436362.jpg (2.16 MB, 947x2048, sjpQWX6.jpg)

I'm too furious to say anything about this right now

No. 18948

> Sorry to autistically fixate on this one sentence out of a very well-thought out and articulate comment, I just hesitate to go so far as to say that the lesbian feminist theory that emerged from radical feminism as a movement was different, rather than related, and part of broader intra-community discourse.

No need to apologize, you're right and your correction was needed. I had forgotten about the radicalesbians and other such groups. I wanted to emphasize the separation because a lot of people seem to think the two are the same thing, when many lesbian feminists had issues with how the radical feminist space treated lesbians. But the two do have important connected histories and shared origins.

One of the biggest problems with the pop 'radfem' sites is an unwillingness to engage with the material directly and a skewed sense of history, so it's important to correct the record. That's why I liked the book I rec'd you - it's basically the original, primary sources for the women's lib movement, and it shows women agreeing and disagreeing and engaging in diverse ways that don't match up to how we've been told about what feminism was like.

No. 18979


No. 19001

>. Men will literally convince a woman to bring in another man in the relationship instead of being mature and working on himself to be the man the woman is expecting him to be.
If you think this happens irl, you really need to go outside. The only men who encourage their wives to bring other men do so because they themselves have a fetish for it.

No. 19014

Does anyone else here use ovarit? Anyways, I wanted to rant some because I feel like lately, ovarit's been having more an more tras larping as radfems, or bots posting? I notice that a lot of the users who respond to me on that site respond in a way that I feel like most randfems don't. For example, I feel like a lot of people on ovarit will respond to obvious bait, or talk like a tranny, or even like a bot. I've had people on that site comment something completely unrelated under my posts. I wish I could screenshot what I mean without outing who I am on ovarit, but I don't think I could?
It's so upsetting. I feel like compared to r/fourthwavewomen and lolcow, ovarit has so many tranny posters. Am I paranoid? I joined when the site opened and I feel like it's gone downhill in the last year. I don't wanna but the whole site down because there are so few women spaces but idk. I also feel like a lot of the older ladies on the site struggle to recognize bait. I don't say this to be derisive of them, but it's kind of frustrating watching them respond to a male in a party city wig.

No. 19017

Ovarit is for trads, boomers, and trad boomers

No. 19026

god i was watching this video on yt about mindgeek and the porn industry and someone (a pornstar being interviewed) is seriously claiming that exposes about the porn industry like Hot Girls Wanted are sensationalizing the industry. are you fucking kidding me

No. 19030

ovarit radfems are so corny. i dont use the site but i wouldnt be surprised if it got overrun by trannies. its well known in their spaces afterall.

No. 19870

Has any nonnie been to a Let Women Speak event? theres one tomorrow and im debating on whether I should go or not.

No. 19871

God, ikr? They straight up temporarily suspend any user that even uses the word "trannies" because "wE hAvE tO bE pResEntAblE".

No. 19963

Does anyone happen to have an invite code for Ovarit?

No. 19965

i decided to order a customizable engraved ring from catbird that says ‘radfem’ and after 2 weeks i got an email saying they ‘can’t produce it’ with no explanation. i’ve historically dropped sooo much money on their jewelry in the past but i’m obviously done with them now. i can’t say i didn’t expect it but i’m still incredulous. i could see them rejecting it if i asked them to engrave ‘terf’ but radfem? really?

No. 20032

File: 1695601957865.png (396.55 KB, 620x2004, muh demons.png)

I hate fuckers like these so much! These spergs who keep replying to radfem or GC tweets with their religious spergery.
No, they/thems don't call themselves that because they're possessed by demons you fucking morons. I hate people who attribute everything to religious bullshit so much. It's like thinking the sun rises every morning due to the sun god or something, or that fire is produced by magic. Explaining what you don't yet understand with nonsensical religious thinking.

The other day I saw a bunch of replies under a rafdem tweet about TIFs, it was a bunch of women sperging about TIFs not being "in harmony with their feminine divine" or some retarded shit like that. I FUCKING hate this "feminine/masculine divine" shit. What are they smoking? You're not being helpful AT ALL. Aidens hate being told that they have to be feminine due to their reproductive organs and that's one of the big reasons they troon out, you're only making it worse you assholes. Fucking idiots.

No. 20133

File: 1696177758585.jpg (208.83 KB, 760x1483, Screenshot_20231001_182751_Tik…)

Anyone noticed how liberal feminist will call themselves radical feminists and push actual radical feminist views out? How can they believe they are radfems if they dont believe in sex based oppression

No. 20136

The tinfoil hater in me thinks they're agents to purposely derail any attempts of female solidarity, why else would you get mad that RADICAL feminisms rejects men in dresses trying to larp as women?

The more rational part of me just thinks they're too retarded to see how they're active participants of patriarchy via being delusional simps for trannys because they can't resist the virtual ass pats/social credits they get for virtue signaling on behalf of men. The only reason Radical feminism became a thing is because these types of women kept calling themselves feminist while continuing to worship at the altar of cock n balls and throwing other women under the bus for a man any chance they get.

No. 20431

I hate bimbo feminism so fuckin much. Feminism that’s almost fucking backwards, only used as an aesthetic, that reduces women to “girl math” or the general infantilization of feminism. Feminism that goes “it’s okay for girls to be brainless if we’re pretty” and I get this shit on my feed all the time.

No. 20432

File: 1697666139131.jpg (264.75 KB, 1242x1482, Tumblr_l_112557080931953.jpg)

Why is the hatred of women not enough. Why is it only bad bc it leads to hatred towards other groups. Why is women being treated poorly not a reason in itself

No. 20587

Anyone else noticed that anons here attribute the most inane things to radfems. I've seen anons claim that radfems are white supremacists, zionists, hates butches, thinks all women should be feminine with long hair, hates women with long hair, hates straight women, hates women with children, thinks women should have children etc.

Lkke ah yes, radical feminists, the zionist white supremacist order who hates lesbians while being lesbians and thinking all women should participate in patriarchal beauty standards to be women while simultaneously being against trannies. Makes sense

No. 20611

Anonymity makes people say dumb shit.

No. 20624

Women are raped and killed for no reason other than they're women every fucking day in every country at alarming rates, that should be reason enough to see misogyny as a bad thing.
>choose to react violently against the rest of us
of course, because moids don't care until it affects them.
They're retarded newfags, either from tiktok or 4chan, and don't know the first thing about radical feminism so they turned it into their personal boogeyman

No. 21310

File: 1701615499834.jpg (14.02 KB, 295x305, Renate-Klein-295x305.jpg)

Renate Klein is an interesting case because she is very much an academic radfem of the second wave in most aspects. However, one decision and focus in her life pivots to more reactionary groups, and that is her fear against transhumanism. It seems to have started around the mid-80s with the publishing of her book 'Test-Tube woman,' and since then she has been obsessed with the idea that groups of billionaires are funding transhumanists who are going to destroy womanhood and humanity with their evil crimes against nature. In fact, she seems to have made fighting against this her life goal, which has led to some interesting outcomes. For example, she is against abortions of mentally "feeble people" because she thinks that eugenics is part of the transhumanist agenda. She is also against the pill because she believes it is unnatural. In essence, she is a crunchy radfem.

No. 21334

and the segment about dating TiMs made me depressed. every single lib lesbian had to walk up and sit down, saying they have a "genital preference" but if they met the right girl they'd be totally down. That's how TiMs groom younger lesbians into dating them. It's the same exact thing as 'just wait the right man' just repackaged, and so many lesbians have fucking fallen for it.

No. 21335

same anon. accidently left the and in while editing my wall of text.
Arielle Scarcella is pissing me the fuck off in this video too because she talks over both the more articulate/good faith people on her side, and then interrupts the liberals when they're saying their dumb takes, rather than letting them embarrass themselves in front of the youtube audience. It makes me seethe when LGB people or radfems make a fool of themselves because we so rarely are able to legitimately talk without being labelled and ebil terve and silenced.

No. 21364

I hope this doesn't come off as bait but i've always had a bit of an issue with how cringe and unpalatable a lot of current radfems' proposals are. Things like not having any man in your life might be ok for -me- or the average hardline radfem (autistic(ish) woman who just doesnt have the energy for hierarchical relations). But they're not for the majority of women! I've long thought about what a world without patriarchy would look like and i realized i couldn't imagine it because i was alone in this.
I feel like the average online (especially on twitter) radfem refuses to look for ways to actually change things beyond facets of our intimate lives. I keep seeing young, typical, het women get interested in misandry via memes but then they come across some smug radfem who'll tell her she's weak because she won't dump her bf or change her entire look. We have opportunities like peaking women over troon madness yet it doesn't go beyond stating things like 'porn is bad'.
It is important to have a counter-backlash but it's ultimately something many women already agree with. It's also why our movement tends to attract women for which the 'lifestyle' is easy (bi/gay women, women who are already gender non-conforming) or somewhat depressed women who are desperate for an alternative. The most obvious manifestation of this being blackpillers who fully give in to immobility and are content with insulting other women as a way to cope. Or even the sheer volume of petty drama you see between feminists who (i think) treat it like a fun hobby, like debate club or something. I've been the smug, rude radfem at times but i also care too much about women as a class to not ask myself why the current theory breeds so much pessimism. Why we can't form a coherent program and campaign for it. The closest thing has to be 4b (also a lifestyle change) but it's at least noticeable in korean society with the super low birthrates.
However, when you look at radfems in the west you get this impression of some online niche. The actual 2nd wave also had this difficulty with getting in the mainstream but i still feel they had much more of an impact than our generation did. And i don't think it can be totally attributed to the current climate. Now i will take my own criticism and get myself involved in irl female-centric aid. Sorry for the wall of text.

No. 21441

Kek isn't the chick on the left that YouTuber who dated/married an elderly woman?

No. 21518

Is there a reason radfems don’t support Palestine? Serious question swear to god I’m not trying to bait I just don’t really understand it. Is it just because Islam can be such a vile and openly misogynistic and pedophilic religion? Because all the abrahamic religions are pretty vile from my point of view so that doesn’t really seem fair

No. 21537

Yes, they had a 40 year age gap.

No. 21538

Get involved on the ground to help women and I think you’ll find your people. It’s great that you want to take action. Fact is that the autistic and lesbian women who just want patriarchy out of their lives entirely also need a place to go, so they make their niche circles. Of course they’re not palatable to the mainstream, but I feel people are entitled to discuss their lifestyle choices online, even if they’re not your cup of tea. There will never be a unified feminist movement, because women just want different things out of it. Just get started with what you want to do.

No. 21544

Only one of the three abrahamic religions are flogging women on their holy spot. If you support Palestine go there and meet the people, I'll celebrate if your head doesn't go too far from the body. As someone born into Islam I'm not giving up my freedom just so white girls with white guilt and black people who can't stop projecting feel virtuous.

No. 21555

So it is based in hatred of Islam. I guess I get it, but I still don’t understand how that can make someone arrive at a point where they think religious fundamentalism justifies the genocide and displacement of an entire group of people. There are plenty of places on earth with backwards views on women’s rights and human rights in general that I simply will never visit, but would be disturbed to see destroyed to the extent that Palestine is being destroyed, knowing that not every person living there could possibly be complicit in flogging women…

No. 21559

>but I still don’t understand how that can make someone arrive at a point where they think religious fundamentalism justifies the genocide and displacement of an entire group of people.
Are you talking about Israelis or Palestinians here? They both hate and want to destroy each other. Both are "justified" and spearheaded by male violence. The only difference is Palestinians don't have the means to destroy Israel while the latter do kek

>but would be disturbed to see destroyed to the extent that Palestine is being destroyed

No one wants to see anything destroyed but males violence as bloodthirsty apes will always persist and its most violent in Islam. Women and children will always be the biggest victim of males violence and horrific casualties but >>21544 anon is right. I haven't heard much genital mutilation or enslavement from rabbis onto women and you'll be immediately assaulted on the spot and honor killed if you talk out of line in front of muslim moids as a family member, in feral moid violence ethnoreligious countries like Saudi Arabia for example. In Palestine I imagine things wouldn't go down so well. If you talk out of line in a synagogue or church the worst you'd suffer is being likely kicked out and given the cold shoulder. Its a world of difference and deep down women from the developed world playing virtuous warriors of "peace" for Palestine and the women and children of Palestine, using them as fodder for protest so they can feel virtue know this. Ironically nearly all are delusional Liberal feminists who would be executed and assaulted on the spot for how they dress In those muslim majority countries ruled by patriarchal Islam.

>There are plenty of places on earth with backwards views on women’s rights and human rights in general that I simply will never visit, but would be disturbed to see destroyed to the extent that Palestine is being destroyed, knowing that not every person living there could possibly be complicit in flogging women…

There are plenty of backwards places with violent moids and moid culture but most aren't vehemently defended and their ideology isn't treated as a tolerable subjective belief to enslave, rape and torture women. Also "person", really? You need to be more clear when you're talking about males. Women are seldom flogging, raping and torturing other women over male made violent beliefs.

No. 21567

I would consider myself a radfem but I have to be honest, there are times where I'll read bp stuff and feel not great mentally. Depressed. I'll snap at my brother and dad randomly after reading threads on here (and they honestly don't deserve it because they've done a lot for me). I wish I could find a happy balance.

No. 21577

Religious Jews are arguably just as bad if not worse.

>B.. but they don't convert people!

Yes. Because they are a racial religion and think you're subhuman. Not out of any concern for not bothering others.

No. 21578

This is a very reductive and out of touch way to see a conflict that’s ultimately got a lot more to it than just (Brown) Moid Evil. Besides that, if you’re so convinced Islam has such a uniquely sick and corrupting power among religions then it’s absurd to think that some number of woman Muslims can’t also become convinced by its values and complicit in carrying out its misogynistic decrees. Women can be convinced to hate themselves and each other, why else would some of them submit themselves to doing pornography and other pure misogynistic evils? such is the brainwashing power of the fucked, male-oriented world we live in.

Retarded arguments like this is why radfem can’t be taken seriously. No normal person is going to want to listen a group of people who sees things as black and white as you do. It’s embarrassing.

No. 21579

Sure it’s more complicated but at the end of the day I’d rather live in a country where I won’t get stoned to death, clitorectomied, married off at 12, gang raped, honor killed etc.

No. 21580

No they are not. There are no executions in the Jewish part of Jerusalem. Islam is the most egregious concentration of misogyny now by far, very far.
If western marxist "feminists" had already ages of education and knowing their worth as western women we didn't. Your ancestors of feminists have fought off christian misogyny+ modesty in the west. Succeeded the most in this world. As well as for gay rights. But you view these rights now as too much for us when we are getting killed. And muslims declare it as their oppression because your gullible Marxist ideology is easy to hack. You call bad feminists liberal but most often they are Marxists, letting women burn to defend their putrid moids on the basis of class solidarity.

I still am traumatized by marxist fems threats of doxxing me, they had doxxed a teen girl from Iran to her gov + parents, and I was livid at them for ruining her life. Then seeing them celebrating in posts about us being scared of their doxx threats speaking up about hijab and Islam. So they gaslight us on facts of how bad it is, yet are fully aware of it, by doxxing because it will get us harmed for speaking up on said facts. Marxists are pure evil. I have no hope for feminism as an ally to Marxism. Also funny how they'll "remember" how bad Islam is only when temporarily travelling here.

No. 21584

>that’s ultimately got a lot more to it than just (Brown) Moid Evil
You must have missed the criticism of Islam and not "brown" anything with your strange obsession over race and color, weirdo.

>Women can be convinced to hate themselves and each other, why else would some of them submit themselves to doing pornography and other pure misogynistic evils? such is the brainwashing power of the fucked, male-oriented world we live in.

What is your point here? Your personal belief that women somehow willingly brainwash themselves into subhuman degradation (which reads paradoxical) is irrelevant to the topic we are discussing. I can't answer this and don't want to; its disgusting. Stop using retarded loaded words like "evils". Morally charged moralfag language does not make a good argument.

>this is why radfem can’t be taken seriously.

I'm not "radfem" nor ascribe to any specific ideology as far as individual policy and actions go, and this is not a trendy internet ideology; its reality. What is your endgame to excusing patriarchal Islam?

>No normal person is going to want to listen a group of people who sees things as black and white as you do. It’s embarrassing.

Funny you should say that, I'd consider Islam and all males not just "brown" ones to be fairly straight forward in its treatment of women; subhuman. Avoiding seeing this reality at all costs is embarrassing.

No. 21587

Late reply but as someone who has never been on the pill I'd like to discuss this with anons who have or currently are, from a medical and feminist point of view, so the menses general in /g/ is not the right place but /2X/ probably is. I'd basically would like to read the experiences of other anons with it, if they were pushed to take it, if they felt that it was convenient for them, if it was a choice based on health issues (I'm aware of women with PCOS using it), if they've ever been on it for different periods of time and quit and then come back to it… I think I've read around here that for some women it's beneficial to their health and for some others not so much. I've also read that it increases your risk of depression and other psychological imbalances. I should check the catalogue and see if there's any medical related thread to bring this up.

No. 21591

also most Israelis and Palestinians aren't that racially different from each other. it's just cultural differences.

No. 21604

Radfem general? More like racebait general cause anons can't ignore trolls.

No. 21612

Radfems worship palestinians/islam and most are ready to convert.

It's not extreme to hate and want to eradicate a religion that worships a paedophile and enslaves women and girls. Islam doesnt belong in the 21st century.

No. 21613

I hate Islam with every fiber of my being, I still think Israel is in the wrong, I won't go as far to say that it's a genocide but it is a state sanction attempted ethnic cleansing, still the western left, embracing of HAMAS is beyond retarded, cause they are the one's who started this bullshit by Invading a nation that has defeated every major Arab/Muslim power a hundred times over.

No. 21617

No it isn't, they have more than enough capacity to carpet bomb Palestine. The fact there are on ground soldiers losing their lives means they are not cleansing people. 30% of Israel is Arabs with equal citizenship and they're not cleansing them first? This is nonsense. Sadly feminism is still shackled to Marxism and we'll have to deal with feminists caping for the worst men on earth because of it. I seriously don't get how radfems can be Marxists given what Marx and all Marxist leaders treat women.

No. 21618

cause radical feminism comes from Marxist theory, taking the concept of the oppressor class and oppressed class and applying towards the sexes, that's the foundation RF. you can dislike Marxism and Marx himself but you can't pretend that influence isn't part of RF identity.

No. 21631

File: 1702663355982.png (38.56 KB, 788x367, 47c09c7ca6422351b56b880be042b5…)

i love being on radblr but i hate the weirdo orbiters like picrel.

No. 21632

what's wrong with her post?

No. 21633

Samefagging, thanks for the encouraging words! I quite like the idea of celibacy for women who truly want to opt out of heterosexuality, at the end of the day.
I've realized that some of my dislike for the anti-heterosexuality stance stems from its corruption. Whenever i see someone shaming (rad)fems for dating (outside of LC) it's almost always a troon/a TIRF/handmaidens who try to repress their own sexuality ('comphet'). I can't stand the lack of pushback against troons larping as radfems, they now feel confortable insulting actual, regular women on pseudo-feminist terms.

>I seriously don't get how radfems can be Marxists
The average marxist moid in 2023 is a woman-hating waste of oxygen, sure. But you can't overstate the influence of early and late marxism on RF thought, despite its flaws and disregard for women. Still better, and closer to RF than most of the left today. Plus you can engage with politics even if they're not perfect.

No. 21634

nta but it's very 2010's Jezebel snark-era feminism, these types were the one's supporting the slut-walk and freethenippel type activism.

No. 21635

it's also weirdly sexual, in that ddlg/coquette kind of way - uwu my perfect and pwetty widdle pussy! uwu. the op is also the typical radfem orbiter who posts about hating moids so much but has her own moid at home because Not My Nigel! etc.

No. 21638

There is nothing about destroying capitalism that would free women if not for the empty promises socialists make before they get to power.

China lines up female babies on train tracks because they're less desirable by force of policy.

The fantasy that a dictatorship would just happen to align with our views forever is nonsensical.

It's actually one of the most shameful aspects of RF, to me, how instead of creating new theory feminists chose to fanfic a massive mysoginist's resentment manifesto by changing class to gender. It's lazy, nonsensical, derivative and screams second gender.

No. 21639

I don't believe actual radfems with Marxist inclinations seriously think 'solving' capitalism would fully free women, that's more of a confused socialist woman thing. I'm aware that the conditions of women have been unequal across socialist regimes and periods (ie. Stalin years) but it doesn't exactly disprove my point about engaging in politics. Marxism is a method, not an excuse to wait for the ideal dictator. It's pretty obvious to me that any radfem familiar with marx can tell there are positive things in the current system (like being less dependent on the domestic sphere).
And, i see what you mean by 'derivative' but do you really think we shouldn't engage with (male) thinkers at all..? You can't create theory out of thin air. I do agree that we need to expand on it though. I can't help but notice a lot of radfem theory is about reacting to existing concepts, 'correcting' them, instead of offering a new worldview/system

No. 21643

>Marxism is a method, not an excuse to wait for the ideal dictator

Hardly a groundbreaking method to do a rule-of-three on the property of production technology and infer the future that way. Opressor oppressed is a cookie cutter descriptor for any grievance. The most useful information I got from reading Mein Kampf is people underestimate how much of a socialist Hitler was. There's nothing you can't fit in Marx's pamphlet ideology.

>And, i see what you mean by 'derivative' but do you really think we shouldn't engage with (male) thinkers at all..? You can't create theory out of thin air. I do agree that we need to expand on it though. I can't help but notice a lot of radfem theory is about reacting to existing concepts, 'correcting' them, instead of offering a new worldview/system

When radical feminism is based on a rich mysoginistic slacker's grievance archetypes and this is somehow barely questioned I think something is wrong.

You can create theory out of thin air, most theory is taking a bad idea and stretching a whole worldview from it. I think the reason we don't see more is the people who are attracted to this kind of work tend to be uninspired herd followers.

Solanas, barely of sound mental capacities, made theory without needing a man's grievance to derivate from. It's trivial.

The whole libfem/radfem dichotomy is ridiculous when being radical amounts to fitting your grievance inside a socialist dictatorship's plan and not being radically defensive of female rights. Seeing people scream "libfem! libfem!" at each other when they're both sadly not liberal gets tiresome.

Also this wave of Islam love on radblr is making me want to pay some plane tickets so these idiots can bet their heads instead of just LARP about it. That the most mysoginist movement of our time gets a hold of RF circles, seriously, how gullible and stupid are they?

If a socialist grabs them by the pussy to rape a proud worker from her will they all scream of joy too?

I wouldn't be surprised given how much dumb shit has been recently normalized in activism.

No. 21644

There are no men left on Tumblr since all they cared about was porn.

No. 21646

I can see a few problems with her post.
>Retarded dumbfuck underaged teenager grammar of all Tumblr users despite being in their mid 20s.
>"Sorry for triggering men uwu" on Tumblr.
There are no males on Tumblr since there's scarce porn and public humiliation of women (aside from her boring not pornographic enough public humiliation kink). Her post makes no sense, even if males did use Tumblr. If anything, she's playing into preferred rape chimp rhetoric of "playing hard to get" and playing coy from decades of female socialization and male worship treating her "pussy" like it is the prize for rape apes to get. As we all know an important tenet of radical feminism considers pussy the prize and men getting it winning.
>Blatant performative misandry. "You're a virgin". And strange inclusion of patriarchal concepts like virginity that harm women far more than rape apes. Yet another friendly fire and self own.
>Vapid stereotypical misogynistic shit that makes all women look like retards. "I'm cool and boys are ugly and gross".
>Uses dehumanizing, misognistic language and porn language like "pussy" just like a brain damaged, pornrotted troon and the males she's supposed to be mocking would.
>Projecting her public humiliation fetish and misognistic patriarchal male worship for all to see despite no one asking and claiming to be "muh ratfem" in the midst of this fetishism.
>Reduces women to sex sex sex. "Women are the gatekeepers of sex". "I'm not having sex with you male so I win na na na boo boo!". Which boils down to her terminally pathetic rape ape lusting and posting into the void of other ape lusting women.
>It's tagged "girlblogger" which reads as self humiliating infantalism and "femcel". While the femcel part can be considered a point of pride in some autist abstraction it certainly doesn't come off as one chained with "perfect pretty pussy". It reads like a tranny wrote it more than a porn rotted rape ape lusting woman with a public humiliation kink.

No. 21653

File: 1702803113747.png (521.73 KB, 1590x1090, eyghYmz.png)

>Solanas, barely of sound mental capacities, made theory without needing a man's grievance to derivate from. It's trivial.
not really, Solanas was a psych major and her manifesto is just straight up Freudian psychology, the section about how men become 'trash' is literally just Freud's Oedipus complex with a misandrist twist and more crude language. There's another section where she claims that men rape women, not for pleasure or domination, but for deeply intrinsic desire to bond with the maternal object(Freud again)
Ideas don't come out of nowhere; they are taken from others, people change and adapt them, and often they evolve into different forms, radically removed or sometimes opposed to their original forms. Radical Feminist are not Marxists, in fact, they've had issues with Marxians for a long period. But most every RF will acknowledge that they have derived their theory from Marxist ideas, just like solanes derived her theory from Freudian ideas.

No. 21769

nonnies please don’t hate me for being over eager and naive but i’m really excited about an idea i had and have pretty much no one to talk to about it. this year coming up i want to start a (free) zine about radical feminism with a heavy gc perspective. i’m trying to figure out the logistics of it but i kinda want to make an email address for it or an instagram or something (anonymously) too. i live in a super typical liberal big city where there’s some energy around women’s rights (but definitely more about trans bs). i’ve been wanting so badly to be more vocal but it’s hard to do for obvious reasons, the most prominent being my career. i think i’ll have to at least start off slightly tame so if people do actually pick them up, they don’t immediately just throw them out because it offends their liberal feminist sensitivities. anyway if anyone has any suggestions, input, or warnings to heed, i’m open.

No. 21985

Why the hell am I seen as "hateful", when I express in front of other people my radical feminist views? Is it because, radfem isn't mainstream? I'm from Poland.

No. 21992

File: 1704333475478.jpeg (189.09 KB, 1549x338, IMG_7047.jpeg)

The girl that made the “dick is abundant and low in value” phrase made a whole ass article apologizing about the offensiveness of it and saying that she regrets her “misandrist male tears” era. How annoying. Girl you were absolutely right and it made me question things to the point Im a separatist.

No. 21995

American women are the most pathetic cocksuckers. It's not an exaggeration to say they're are the biggest obstacle to female progress right now.

No. 22008

File: 1704388706954.png (353.29 KB, 720x857, Screenshot_20240104-141542~2.p…)

based cherie.

No. 22009

>confused about gender
>dresses extremely feminine and provocatively
seems like she's making shit up, honestly

No. 22012

idk wym, its pretty typical for girls who were awkward gnc tomboys to be interested over the top feminine aesthetics later in life

No. 22027

Huh? She literally says that pic was a few years after her Bowie phase. She was hyper sexualized in the runaways because their trash manager wanted to her to be. Plus she says 'gender' with quotation marks, implying she doesn't see it as a real thing and knows she just wanted to be like a man she admired.

No. 22039

>Hardly a groundbreaking method
>most theory is taking a bad idea and stretching
bad faith
>Solanas, barely of sound mental capacities, made theory without needing a man's grievance to derivate from.
seconding the reply pointing out her freudian inspiration.
> this wave of Islam love on radblr
is this about palestine? very tedious.
>being radical amounts to fitting your grievance inside a socialist dictatorship
Look, i get hating on socialist regimes, despising the left (!!) or not wanting to bother with 19th c. theory. But i have to ask, what is your actual objection to marxist inspiration? Saying it's a male ideology doesn't count. i need you to actually examine the concepts. Is it the 'social construction' talk? The materialism? Is it the fact that you need to look into how society works at large?

No. 22061

File: 1704655416854.png (619.54 KB, 1396x1726, Vfkjava.png)

Do you agree?

No. 22063

>working out is something fascists do
Do they eat with spoons as well? Ridiculous reasoning.

No. 22070

Absolutely. It used to make me laugh when I realised that the women I'd been talking to online about homesteading and separatism were fatasses who could barely keep their houseplants alive. Separatism is little more than a daydream for the majority of radfem identified women, IMO.

No. 22080

The vast majority of it is rhetorical, whether it's racial or politically based. Still, I feel everyone should take at least some homesteading coursees if they have the free time. It's not easy by any means, but these are skills that I fee we all need to know

No. 22279

File: 1705904837847.png (85.26 KB, 720x462, IMG_20240122_002511.png)

Wtf is wrong with /ot/ lately.

No. 22280

File: 1705904908250.png (138.46 KB, 720x764, IMG_20240122_002942.png)

No. 22281

This specific post is right, though. As exploitative as basically all jobs that commodify women's bodies for male sexual consumption are, stripping is one of the lesser offenders. Anon is right that strip clubs are going the way of the dodo. They've been in decline for the last twenty or thirty years for a variety of reasons, mainly camgirls and shifting social norms. It's kind of insane that it was ever considered normal for men to get together with their buddies to pop boners at miserable women humping poles to shitty music. What the hell are they even doing together in that scenario? Collectively enjoying the act of degrading another human being? Like it's so creepy and bizarre that even normie moids who don't understand shit about women's problems are increasingly uncomfortable with it. Most of the moids who still go to strip club are either trailer trash types or boomers who like it because of nostalgia or ineptitude with technology. When the old farts die, this thing will shrivel up and disappear with them. We don't need to intervene here, because the problem is solving itself (stateside, at least.)

Mail-order brides, surrogacy tourism, and prostitution (particularly in Asia and eastern Europe) seem to be the biggest magnets for human trafficking. I think we should focus on tackling that first instead of wasting our time fretting about a dying industry.

No. 22282

Why does everything have to be one extreme or the other? The important thing is that you be self-sufficient and healthy, so obviously you can't be obese, but you shouldn't fixate on your weight to an obsessive degree either. Just exercise daily and eat a balanced diet.

No. 22283

Learn to read.

No. 22284

NTA and I basically agree with you but there's also an attempt to push the narrative that strip clubs "empower" women and are "part of queer culture", at least in my liberal western country. There was at least at one point a "feminist" strip club here, and bourlesque is being shilled as well. Admittably it's clear they'll never become mainstream. In fact, the strip club in question is already dissolving due to infighting among performers when some tif got offended by being told she (a woman with short haircut) isn't the sort of performer gay men would be interested in seeing, KEK

So even if it seems that the trash is taking itself out, I think it's important for radical feminists to be vocal about the fact that strip clubs are inherently exploitative and objectify women whether some individual woman might "make the free choice" to work there or not.

No. 22317

My brother used to work at a strip club as a bouncer. He said it was the most miserable place on earth. Everyone there seemed depressed - the dancers, the workers, and the moids who went there.

No. 22589

I've grown to fucking hate Ovarit. You can be downvoted and have your comments deleted just for talking about your dislike for Taylor Swift. I never gave a shit about her until this month, no thanks to media over-saturation. Apparently, you have "internalized misogyny if you talk about your disinterest. Apparently, even acknowledging that rich women have less to gain from feminism than poor and middle class women is a bannable offense.

No. 22592

men talk about how disgusting and meaty women's labia are, but women are supposed to self-flagellate over saying mean things? Men literally kill women worldwide but they want us as their mommies

No. 22593

i agree but less from a feminist perspective and more from a health one. Women already get ebnough shit from doctors and medical staff and being healthy is one way to streamline problems at the hospital. Also I hate my body less when I have muscle

No. 22596

>men talk about how disgusting and meaty women's labia are
Faggots you mean. All men are closet faggots, sexuality is a larp for males. If you're actually attracted to female bodies you aren't disgusted by the sexual organs that make up your supposed sexuality, unless you're a homosexual, homocurious male.

No. 22602

the word man is synonymous with faggot.

No. 22630

I guess it is a daydream, but I still want to live far away from men

No. 22645

venting time, sorry it's personal and blogposty, I just have no where else to vent like this without some gross moid asking for a link or some retard shitting on me for not being supportive.

my niece just turned 18 less than 2 months ago and she's already created an OF and got a job stripping. She said something about it on tiktok a few weeks ago and I hoped to GOD she was joking, but she finally added the link to her profiles. She's using her REAL NAME too. This is terrifying. i'm fucking fuming at my sister. i held that girl the day she was born and now disgusting moids are paying to see her naked. I feel like I should be blaming myself as well, but my family all moved away from each other and she didn't talk to me much about her personal life..
She's wanted to be famous on social media since she was 8. i hate this fucking planet and the way it pushes naive little girls into getting naked for money. The internet as a whole should be 18+ to keep influence for this shit away from kids… The worst of it is that I believe my sister may be supportive of her. I'm too afraid to speak up and say something to her or ask. I don't want to fight… I'm afraid of damaging relationships with them, but this makes me fucking sick to my stomach. I'm so scared for my niece. i know girls who did OF for a short period and years later they are still getting recognized and stalked…
I should probably say something.. I'm just so scared of losing them both.

No. 22674

Tell her to use a pseudonym at the very least. Good god.

No. 22675

i tried that yesterday, actually. I sent my niece a really nice long message about how I love her and all I care about is her safety. I told her she has no idea just how awful motivated and creepy some men can be. I acknowledged that I know unsolicited advice falls on deaf ears, and I thought I knew everything at 18 too. I only pressed on how unsafe it is to be using her real name, didn't criticize her for doing it period, because that would probably just shut her down from listening to me at all.. I got no actual response. All she did was put likes/hearts on my messages a few hours later. Very sad. This shit sucks.

No. 22680

She's going to have some huge regrets in a few years, but even with her name attached she can still come back from this. All you can do is continue to be there to support her when she needs it, even if she won't listen to you now.

No. 22690

Show her the Shayna threads.

No. 22786

I hope this is the right place to post this. I've been thinking a lot about whether I want to have a child in the future… However I would only want a daughter, not a son. My reasoning is that i don't believe you can ever raise a good man with certainty. I work with kids and I like both boys and girls, but I notice from a very early age how the girls are pushed aside in favor of the boys, how the boys will make sex noises and porn references while the girls sit there uncomfortable, and it breaks my heart. No matter how I raise my son, there's the possibility he'd become obsessed with Andrew Tate shit or whatever new sexist figure that would be around at the time. However, I can't help but feel that this is a very selfish prerequisite and it's a reason why I shouldn't become a mother. I want to get married too but I don't know if I'd ever find a woman who would also be okay with this perspective. I feel really bad about it honestly, I told my sister about it and she was horrified and said that was an awful perspective to have. Idk nonnies.

No. 22789

Even with a daughter, you don't know what political leanings she'll end up having. Plenty of children of second-wave figures ended up distancing themselves from their parents. Robin Morgan's son started distancing himself from his parents when he was a teenager, and Alice Walker's daughter also distances herself from her mother. Both wanted a normie lifestyle and thought their parents were more embarrassing than anything.

No. 22793

Oh, I don't care about the politics. I wouldn't care if my daughter was radfem or not, or if she leaned right, or anything like that (although it admittedly breaks my heart to see any young women fall into the tradwife trap and shack up with a shitty manchild who does nothing). It's other stuff that scares me - the possibility my future son could become an abuser or rapist, or even that he could hurt me. I know it's a bit irrational - probably stems from being victimised by men throughout my life - but I didn't know if anyone felt the same.

No. 22794

It's 50/50, it'll depend on factors(ask your future partner if he has more girls in his family or boys)

No. 22819

I have had the same thoughts anon. At the end of the day you can't be certain you'll raise a good person even if you do everything right. Even if they grow up ok, as an adult they'll be on their own and make their own choices, as bad as they can be, and you won't control that. I know what you mean though and there are so much more risks of a man lacking empathy and ending up assaulting or abusing someone than a woman. I don't know about you but I'd never blame a guy's bad behavior on their mom (aside from extreme npd mom cases), so you shouldn't blame yourself. The fact that you're asking yourself this question shows that you're a considerate and sensible person, and I wish people like you would just go for it and reproduce because there are a ton of mindless people busting out kids without a care in the world. There's a chance that you could raise a boy that's not agressive and women-hating, and that would be a small but nice contribution to the world and future women.

No. 22821

I'm not going to have kids, but even when I was considering it I only ever wanted a daughter. I feel like I would never love a son, for so many reasons.
With IVF I believe you can choose the sex, and if you're conceiving naturally you can find out the sex long before the 24 week cutoff for abortion.

No. 22834

I want to congregate with likeminded women at college and do some activist work/publish a zine or whatnot, but I am apprehensive. Not only am I unsure of how to approach it discreetly without attracting ravenous trannies from the get-go, I also don’t identify 100% with radical feminism. I am gender critical, anti-porn, anti-prostitution, anti-shaving, anti-make up, against conservatism and anti-feminism, pro women’s liberation throughout society and more, but I am also religious, don’t necessarily agree on abortion and Marxism, and am in a long-term relationship with a male. I am concerned this would avert radfem-oriented women, so I really just don’t know what to do… does anyone have tips for independent thinking women in college seeking similar friends?

No. 22835

have any other nonnies here deleted their selfies/faces off their social media?

Maybe I've gone paranoid but with all the freaks, creeps, perverts, losers hidden online with easy access to womens (and children) photos… i dont know why but I feel disgusted if these men can see me. Especially now that AI has gotten easier and better, using someone's photos for ai porn used to be a celebrity problem, but now it's happening to random nobodies. Men can turn any ig crush into porn or pay someone on 4chan to do it. I feel like this is an ugly truth that many women just don't know about.

And honestly men have ruined social media. Just endless aggressive toxic redpillers in comment sections on burner profiles or even their own profiles. On top of redpill/incel content creators increasing. Plus, I just got nothing but creepy losers dming me. So whats the point anymore. I just want to cut off men offline and online.

I had a friend who found out her christian dating profile was shared on some incel fb group calling her ran through and becoming a fake born again virgin, when in reality she kept the baby from a rape. I just encouraged her to delete her dating profile and privatize her ig, which she did since she didn't feel safe anymore.

I dunno, I just wanted to rant I guess. Men ruin everything.

No. 22836

Yes, I have 0 pictures of myself online except for in a private account that is open to 4 friends. It is very liberating and one of the easier ways to protect yourself from depravity.

No. 22863

No, I'm the same way. Social media is nothing if not a tool for clout chasing and bragging about how great a person's life is. I only have one for the sake of giving to people when they ask for my contact details also my mother was obsessed with posting pictures of me when I was younger on Facebook and when I was older I read about the horrible things moids would do with pictures of children they found online.

No. 22875

Just bring back scrapbooking, you have the photos but people have to actually come to your house and you can control who sees it.
Plus having a hard copy of photos is just nicer to me

No. 22954

File: 1709749103637.png (443.3 KB, 1080x1267, 1000009063.png)

No. 22955

If women and girls could see the faces of everyone who liked their photos and not just a neutral number or cartoon pfp, they would never post them again.

No. 22986

Did anyone listen to the podcast 'Actual Feminism', and does anyone know what happened to it? I think they also made memes and one of them ran the 'AGPs that make you want to die' instagram page. Asking because I really enjoyed their 'Radfems in Genderland' series. Also asking if there other funny/conversational TERF podcasts?

No. 23000

Not in uni but you and I seem extremely similar. I have found a small group of female friends who have similar enough views, but there are always things we see differently. I can appreciate the differences though. I hope you connect with likeminded women nona

No. 23017

I really liked it, have no idea what happened to the two women. I’m surprised Spotify still has the episodes up.

No. 23145

Is anyone else totally nonplussed about the movie love lies bleeding with Kristen Stewart? What really did me in with it was not only the male director and the butch plus varbie (anavar barbie) pairing, but that guy in Michigan who got arrested at the theater for getting smashed on substances and masturbating himself to sleep in the theater. It all just seems like it’s about expanding the sexual landscape for men now that tranny dick girls are boring to them. Butch plus muscle mommy is like the exact inverse of female porn tropes for men that is satisfying because they think it is the only groupings that exclude them plus one of them is a man made creation of a perfect lesbian, the varbie, a woman chemically created in a man’s image.

No. 23148

Nonnie where can I find resources and papers on how testosterone fuck up women's body? I know someone who is considering taking it and I need to convince her with facts and logic. She's only 16. Please help? I hate how trendy taking "T" is nowdays.

No. 23192

Amen to this lady and all other Youtube female creators giving women a healthy dose of pragmatism and realism when it comes to relationships with men

No. 23210

I don't know if this is the right thread but I believe pedophilia in moids isn't biological (as much as they like to claim) but entirely a product of male socialisation. Masculine and male in general is made out to be the stronger and larger than life being whereas feminine and female is put down and to be small and weak, men's sexuality is very fluid and can very easily be influenced (as is seen with porn causing them to enjoy abuse and rape) and that's why the simple concept of mixing feminine with innocent leads men to seek virgins, all other excuses are false. This is also made worse by wives being bangmaids to these moids, so them wanting someone that is "virginal" automatically translates to someone completely un-influenced by other moids, including the woman's father. So they end up going younger and younger, and no one stops them because part of female sexuality is just being a hole for these men to penetrate so it doesn't even matter if the girl has even hit puberty (just means she's even more "his" to control). It's partly why they don't treat older women with respect despite them being fertile as well. I don't think there's anything biological causing them to be terrible to older women, it makes no logical sense, but when you consider how they're socialised it makes complete sense.

No. 23219

I think you're onto something here. I don't think trannys have necessarily become boring for coomers but it's clear that they would never actually fuck someone with a dick. Its a purely theoretical attraction. Straight coomers who've memed themselves into jerking off to femboys and passing trannys in porn still prefer a real woman at the end of the day. The dom mommy musclegirl thing has become a pretty popular trope amongst these types of men too. They don't care if this movie in particular claims to cater to lesbians (which it doesn't but yk). They just see that this porn trope they like has been made into a mainstream movie and ofc they like it and jerk off to it

No. 23223

To answer whether pedophilia is natural or not for males, we first need to acknowledge that male sexuality is opportunistic and very much intertwined with aggressive impulses. Even the word "straight" only loosely applies to them. Many, many of them will have little issue indulging in unusual sexual behaviour once they get enough privacy, anonymity and/or authority and freedom from any consequences.

Unlike us, who evolved for thousands of years to develop instinctive mental brakes surrounding sexuality as in the end its our bodies that carry the toll of reproduction. Male sexuality never knew such constraints, and instead evolved to prioritize maximising the number of possible offsprings they have, which also led to the cross-over between aggression and erotic impulses as this mechanism also contributes to spreading the male's genes by overcoming the female recipient's resistance.

Rape and pedophilia, as well as the violence we see in pornography, are all the logical conclusion of this same mechanism, which may exist on a spectrum, when it's coupled with a low ability to empathize.

No. 23236

Here's a website that every radfem should have bookmarked, it's got several resources on puberty blockers and hormones.

No. 23239

So it is biological and >>23210 is coping badly. Wouldn't senile virginal old ladies and the severely mentally ill be prime targets for fetishism if it was just innocence making males aroused. Maximum pedofile scrote defending cope. Women are constantly celebrated by men for degrading themselves. Males give no fuck about innocence whether it's of a child, acted or due to a severe disability. Get real.

No. 23241

It's not scrote defending to acknowledge their biological and neurological faillings. I would even say it's the exact opposite.

It's not because something has biological roots that fighting it becomes futile, on the contrary it is a valid argument for eugenism and why any society that follows male's whims to follow what their destructive instincts tell them to do is doomed to fail.

Defiling innocence gets many males' rocks off, but it's not the number one criteria they follow to select their targets. How physically they are attracted to their targets also plays a role in their sexual behaviour.

No. 23244

This is the main point. People see acknowledging biology as giving up or conceding. It just means we have to change our strategy. Also, just because socialization is a meme, societal and legal consequences are real. Imagine if rape was as taboo as cannibalism- this can be achieved.

No. 23246

You’re like the emotional, rambling, depressed side of man hating and manifesto chan is the dispassionate, irreverent and articulate side.

No. 23249

And you have no right to speak like this to me and decide what I am

No. 23250

File: 1710903235776.jpeg (172.67 KB, 938x935, IMG_3568.jpeg)

Lol you tell people to get raped I can speak to you however I want

No. 23251

I hate the hypocrisy of the sex work is work crowd. People were discussing about creepy men that ask for sex in exchange of free/cheaper housing saying how it was disgusting. I brought up that if sex work is work, how is it any different than asking for manual labor in exchange for rent. These people are braindead.

No. 23252

You are honestly insane if a bunch of "radfems" on social media who talk about their ugly boyfriends make you despise the entire female sex and think "women are a curse". Like that's very much a you issue and you might just be a misogynist. You can be annoyed at retards (which can be found en masse in any movement) without condemning your entire birth sex. Like theres a point where we need to get real here. There's like 4 billion women in the world. You're basing your judgment of them entirely on a bunch of maladjusted, internet addicted, wholly mentally ill shut ins who've never done a bit of activism in their lifes. I don't know if to resent or pity women like you who start yapping about the inherent inferiority of women because they have beef with a bunch of imbeciles online. Go outside and talk to a normal woman please. You'll find that normal average everyday women do not behave like self identified online radfems

No. 23253

I see you haven't met cockbreath-chan yet. she's insane, she just uses this place for her stream-of-consciousness ramblings and also only engages with negative replies so don't bother.

No. 23264

Indeed, trying to understand the biological foundation of male behaviour, and even female behaviour is always interpreted as conceding to the fact that such behaviour should not be resisted, if not outright get accepted.

Only our strategy should change, not our overall goal. Because, whether biological our socialized, many male behaviours are indeed toxic and should never be accepted, under any circumstances, because doing so is opening the pandora box that will lead to the downfall of social stability and ultimately to civilization collapse.

I understand that facing the fact that nature isn't perfect can be devastating at first, but it's an absolute must if we, as women, want to understand what we're really up against.

No. 23265

I don't get it, do you want to cull pedofile moids so the "good" moids will be left ala eugenics? Also rape will never be seen as taboo ever historically. It never has and never will be. The animal kingdom and sexual armsrace is evidence enough of this. Again, it isn't biologically sound to argue that you can eugenics away poor male traits, they will resurface constantly and obviously you can't socialization away this behavior either since that's sociologists and most of societies entire failing careers now. That's the basis of restorative justice and why it fails miserably.

No. 23266

Yes, by using eugenics to target the genetic roots of male callous behavior, we could potentially reduce the prevalence of these harmful traits in society. This could involve identifying and modifying genes that are associated with aggression and lack of empathy, or implementing screening programs to identify individuals at risk for developing these behaviors.

To respond to your remark, throughout history, rape has been a taboo topic that has been criminalized on the basis of women being seen as men's property. The concept of rape being taboo was not necessarily due to the trauma inflicted on the victim, but rather to protect the honor and reputation of the men involved.

This ownership mentality meant that any violation of a woman's body was seen as a violation of the man's property. Therefore, rape was criminalized not because it was seen as a heinous crime against the individual woman, but rather as a crime against the patriarchal system of ownership and control.

More evidence sustaining that theory is found through observing how marital rape was not considered a crime for much of history because it was believed that a husband had the right to sexual access to his wife's body at any time. This further reinforces the idea that women were viewed as property to be used and controlled by men. The trauma inflicted on the woman in these cases was often ignored or dismissed, as the focus was on maintaining the societal norms of male ownership of women.

No. 23268

Can't thank you enough for this. Have a great day nonnie

No. 23277

File: 1711017394986.png (183.9 KB, 603x1357, artificial wombs.png)

The wariness around eugenics and bioengineering has nothing to do with being a "male worshipping pick-me" Even the most extreme man-hating radfems are wary of it because they are aware of the potential dangers it will cause. It won't be a wonderful genderless utopia but a new caste of humans exploited upon, humans created to be sexually exploited, humans created for labor and war, born without emotions and heart and humans created to be servants. it's something that will cause far more potential evil then good.

No. 23280

allowing women to continue going through a deeply traumatic process that either kills us or leaves us disabled, permanently scarred whatever because of a scenario that will never happen. this belief that men will wipe women off the face of the earth is as delusional as the belief that women will en masse separate from men and let them die off. men need women to satisfy their sexual desires same thing with women and men.

No. 23282

women will presumably still be being "created" in this scenario.

No. 23284

>implying males could survive male-only company
>implying men can fill their own bottomless pit of needs
>implying men don’t already parasitise on all women’s maternal instincts whether those women are mothers or not
>implying men can be motivated to do anything without the promise of sex

No. 23285

File: 1711036782886.jpg (139.99 KB, 800x525, BabyM.jpg)

Phyllis Chesler talked about this in her autobiography, the Whitehead vs Stern case was a major turning point where many radical feminists discovered/rediscovered the importance of motherhood in feminism and became almost universally wary of reproductive technology. cause there was no argument other than "bioessentialism" to argue that Mary Beth Whitehead deserved the child more than the Sterns.

No. 23330

Exactly. I keep seeing this line of thinking but is there any proof for patriarchy = articifial creation because men are just so envious of women being able to carry babies?
It seems much simpler to me. A female body just make you very exploitable in a number of ways (including pregnancy first and foremost) and moids are biologically programmed to jump at the opportunity.

No. 23345

>Mary Beth Whitehead deserved the child more than the Sterns.
It’s not about “deserve” and I think it’s important to note the baby grew up and wanted nothing to do with Mary. She had her parental rights terminated the second she was of age and able to do so and listed Ms Stern as her real mother. I feel sorry for Mary but she was only thinking of herself. She made the child’s life chaotic as a result, I’m not surprised she grew up to resent Mary and fully embrace the sterns.

No. 23348

I listened to a podcast with Renate Klein(a feminist I really respect) who briefly talked about the case(It was in the Subject of Power podcast btw). Her logic was that the only reason the daughter ended up choosing the Sterns was because they were wealthier. Her real concern was that it should have never happened in the first place, that the Sterns shouldn't have had the right to use another woman just because they felt like they deserved an offspring,

No. 23371

Males love rape and you will never remove this from the gene pool period. It is fundamental to the sexual arms race and how gametes and reproductive strategies have evolved In nearly all mammalian and primate species. No amount of "shaming" will get rape seen as a taboo ever. Socialization can't trump biology, nature informs nurture not the other way around. The only forced solution like pointing to some far fetched eugenics scheme would be to literally castrate all males which wouldn't even prevent rape but it would at least prevent traumatic insemination, which I doubt you'd support that even since under your plan we'd need to preserve and reform your precious rape apes. This is just an elaborate and a little bit more spicy liberal feminist doctrine of restorative justice. Artificial wombs would worsen things and only victimise women and girls even more on demand. At least the victimizing is mostly only third world women and those in dire circumstance now, or from developed economies ones who actively want to be victimised. If artificial wombs were invented and normalised all women and girls would be targets and this pool of victims would expand. Women would be even more degraded and girls and children would be as well. There is already a sacrificial class of women mandated, propped up and supported to be raped by men by men and women, with artificial wombs there will be an artificial class of women and girls to be raped by men. Unironically, the only way to win would be avoiding males and fostering the growth of only women and girls seperate from men and educating those generations of girls that this is reality and you can't socialise men out of it. Something that people are calling impossible in this thread because of some absurd argument that women are just too "moid thirsty".

No. 23397


> Males love rape and you will never remove this from the gene pool period"

And we both conceded that they do so largely because their DNA primed them to do so. Therefore to remove this behaviour from the gene pool is to remove the gene or the series of genes responsible for it. We have the CRISPR/CAS-9 technology so we can "edit" genes out of gametes. It's another useful tool in the toolbox in the eradication of genetically-based harmful behaviour.

> Artificial wombs would worsen things and only victimise women and girls even more on demand

Artificial wombs, if they ever successfully manage to replicate human gestation (which I highly doubt) will be high maintenance, expensive and only available to a handful elite members of society.

> Unironically, the only way to win would be avoiding males and fostering the growth of only women and girls seperate from men and educating those generations of girls

Ironically, you go and write a drivel about how artificial wombs are going to be the death of us, and your proposed solution for that hypothetical dystopia would be to 'foster female-only communities'. Show me how fostering female-only communities will ever be successful in a world where artificial wombs are so developped they are able to perfectly replicate human gestation and where males are keen on reducing females to a permanent sex-slave underclass…

No. 23398

I would love nothing but a moid-free humanity. The only problem is that I don't see how we can sustain reproduction in such a scenario on the longer term (because artificial methods are dependant on our ability to continuously manufacture them). Unless we find so way to unlock parthenogenesis in the human female.

Another eugenic alternative to removing anti-female behaviours from males is giving females a lethal biological defense mechanism that can be triggered when she feels male threat to be imminent. In my perspective, the ideal approach would be a combination of the two.

No. 23405

Evolution doesn't stop at the DNA level, you can't reprogram something out of nature in a few generations or even at all period. As long as there is a motile gamete and a stationary one there will be a constant sexual arms-race and behavior to reflect these differences. You have a simplified view of biology. Regardless, no one is using CRISPR to eliminate male violence, male violence benefits males and females that collaborate with male violence. The victims of male violence are abundant but hold little power over the extremely sexually dimorphic and hierarchical/patriarchal.

>Artificial wombs, if they ever successfully manage to replicate human gestation (which I highly doubt) will be high maintenance, expensive and only available to a handful elite members of society.

I guess you agree that artificial wombs would be a net negative. I don't care if a million Epstein islands spawn from this, it shouldn't be entertained in the first place. You're forgetting that at least in our current reality in the developed world women can opt out of reproduction completely without repercussions.

>Ironically, you go and write a drivel about how artificial wombs are going to be the death of us, and your proposed solution for that hypothetical dystopia would be to 'foster female-only communities'. Show me how fostering female-only communities will ever be successful in a world where artificial wombs are so developped they are able to perfectly replicate human gestation and where males are keen on reducing females to a permanent sex-slave underclass…

Hey that's what I'm arguing! cool. Your ideas will fail because there's a strange burden of keeping males under check.

Parthenogenesis is better than perma crippling and sustaining a population of stunted males kek, even a severely stunted, genetically cripple male can harm women and children, they do so all the time. I like the second scenario but its likely it would be hijacked or a evolutionary armsrace would proceed it like in all dimorphic animals.

No. 23406


>Hey that's what I'm arguing! cool. Your ideas will fail because there's a strange burden of keeping males under check.

I guess that goes for your ideas as well, how are you going to manage establishing a female-only community or communities when doing so mostly depends of males consenting to it or having something to lose along the lines should they decide against it.

>Parthenogenesis is better than perma crippling and sustaining a population of stunted males kek, even a severely stunted, genetically cripple male can harm women and children, they do so all the time. I like the second scenario but its likely it would be hijacked or a evolutionary armsrace would proceed it like in all dimorphic animals.

I get what you're trying to say. I personally was more thinking along the lines of the sexual dynamics in spotted hyenas (females are stronger than males, and traumatic insemination is physiologically impossible). I guess the 1st step towards eradicating the male evolutionary advantage is to give the human females a similar defense mechanism.

No. 23422

And this is why I can't take certain radfems seriously, the only solution given is a childish unrealistic fantasy, no there can't be a specific virus developed that only targets males and we probably can't ever get human actual cloning, like hate men that's fine but spouting unironic science fiction is not going to do you any good.

No. 23436

there are realistic solutions like female separatism and female only communities. But you blackpill psychos can't stand to be around women even for 10s. you should take your chances with your beloved rapebeasts then since us lowly females are the real problem.

No. 23488


> since us lowly females are the real problem.

I mean, it's a fact that a lot, a lot of women are handmaiden who enables men furthermore.

No. 23489

Female separatism is apparently less believable than genetically engineering stunted moids kek.

>I guess that goes for your ideas as well, how are you going to manage establishing a female-only community or communities when doing so mostly depends of males consenting to it or having something to lose along the lines should they decide against it.
No it doesn't, I only advocated for separatism. In the current age women can opt out of fucking men, did you know that? No complicated coping genetic engineering stunted males required. The burden of keeping breeding is a rape ape one that cripples women and I'm genuinely surprised to see people ITT calling themselves radfem but then advocating for the continued survival and flourishing of males in any way. You've gone from the libfem mentality that males can be socialized out of violence to males can be genetically engineered to be less violent.

No. 23490


>No it doesn't, I only advocated for separatism. In the current age women can opt out of fucking men, did you know that?

It is not as easy as you think, because if such a movement gains momentum, you can be sure that the response of governments will be nothing less than limiting our reproductive rights and survival without men.

No. 23491

It seems like the logical conclusions of different positions would go like this:
Antinatalist = separatism, everyone including women eventually dies off.
Pronatalist but strictly for females = use parthogenesis to create a female only race
Pronatalist for males and females = use eugenics/gene editing to maintain a race with two sexes but with males that are psychologically identical to females.

The third one sounds difficult, but whether it’s impossible would depend on an understanding of hormones that hasn’t really been established yet. Would it be possible to get a fetus to develop small gametes and male genitalia (requires testosterone) without also developing the aggressive male brain? Idk. Parthenogenesis sounds easier, females have everything they need to create more females, biologically speaking.

No. 23492

The third one is the de facto current state of the world with a fanfic thrown in of psychologically stunting males, once again in order to preserve precious moids.

Great so lets see it pan out, as if governments don't already limit womens reproductive rights kek.

No. 23529

File: 1711480610739.jpg (360.77 KB, 2150x1210, 11616890-16x9-2150x1210-1.jpg)

I think we need to clarify what kind of separatism we mean. I think the separatism of leaving cities, quitting your job and shitting in the woods is stupid and pointless, but I think more urban-based separatism like Korean 4B is a lot more viable, like having a group of friends and sharing an apartment, sharing personal financial costs (this can potentially cause problems down the line) but it is much more programmatic and realistic) as long as most everyone involved is a mature adult it can work.

No. 23578

File: 1711628214005.jpg (107.49 KB, 736x947, 1000009926.jpg)

The part about Maria teaching Mozart is dubious, but this is mostly correct.

No. 23583

The obvious flaw with the latter is that it completely relies on the continuation of a functional liberal capitalist state. What will happen to the Korean 4b feminists when the Korean economy collapses and they lose their jobs?

No. 23610

Regardless of whether the separatism involves physical distancing (like living on a commune) or not (like Korean 4B) if no babies are born won’t the economy be over in a few decades anyways?
No new goods and services will be created as the women from the original group retire, and no new children are being born to enter the workforce. The dwindling number of younger women will be forced to care for a growing number of the old. They can hire men to help with the caretaking but those are dying out too. And everyone’s running out of money and resources.
I don’t think this is a bad outcome if you hold strict antinatalist, anticapitalist and primitivist positions (but it sure sounds like shit to me)

No. 23614

It's not any different from the current situation in countries without 4B movement. Society requires continuous population growth to work, without it it inevitably collapses. People past a certain age can't produce enough to sustain themselves, and they depend on others, used to be your own children before pension systems, now it's everybody's children.
No children whatsoever will just massively accelerate the collapse.

No. 23618

The human population grows by 1 billion a year. Japan lost 500,000 old people last year but immigrants and migrants will have to take the place of deficits due to their mistreatment of women souring them off of patriarchal brainwashing. The earth grows constantly and loses people, but primarily in terms of net grows by a billion due to the assurance of women being raped and surrogated by men. Many women also buy into patriarchal capitalist spew like that which you two are spouting as it's the mainstream message communicated by males in order to keep women subjugated by their biology and keep males in power through neoliberal economic development. This is supposed to be radically feminist discussion, take your breeder male worship economy shit elsewhere.

No. 23624

So you’re saying not to worry about who will provide end of life care for a bunch of childless elder radfems as the human population dies out, because men will sustain the population by raping all of us younger women? Fantastic lmao

No. 23629

The global collapse will happen much quicker than a few decades.
see this is why I will always some socialist leanings, the mass population growth is only an issue for a globalized capitalist state, historically population growth was very limited and a state still persisted.

No. 23630

the collapse of civilization will happen not because women are refusing to fuck your ugly sons but because males have created an unsustainable civilization that is killing our planet. the rape of women won't make our planet any more habitable to humans and we'll still likely go extinct by the end of the century.
males were never supposed to lead or have any power and now humanity is paying the price.

No. 23631

Why do you think stating the facts means you support the situation?
Reality is that people can't support themselves past a certain age, so either somebody younger supports them, or they die. Because of this all economic systems depend on constant growth, communist countries have the same problem.

All power stems from violence, unless women acquire violent power, men will rape them into fixing the population issue. You can already find politicians arguing for reverting women's rights that exist now because female emancipation resulted in lower fertility.

No. 23632

This is an issue that Redfem talked about in their last podcast, radical feminists have a complete inability to accept any idea of ​​state protection for the most vulnerable people in society, cause they think that's paternalism.

No. 23636

and the collapse of civilization will also happen if no children are born? seems like you haven’t had to take care of an aging relative if you can brush off this issue as who’s going to fuck whose ugly sons.
separatism makes sense as a personal choice, but not on a global scale unless there’s a plan to invent parthenogenesis.

No. 23637

َArtificial inseminations and momunes are the future.

No. 23651

A fundamental flaw in this whole debate is assuming that the government will collapse, when the most likely end scenario is a government taking power and gaining state control, or a coup where a radical group assumes power.

No. 23656

NTA but if this world or the survival of humanity as a race relies on the subjugation of women, maybe it doesn't need to exist. Seriously. Maybe the ultimate collapse of humanity and a brand new start with a sister species (hopefully without males and with a natural means of parthenogenesis) is best. Life on Earth as we know it will cease sooner rather than later even without ebil feminazis doing separatism and abstaining from childbirth because of the mechanisms males have put into place on this planet. Like their obsession with "progress" and disregard/contempt for the ecosystem. Not only do women suffer, but so do our flora and fauna. Everyone but human men pay the price.

No. 23659

That's not really a realistic scenario either. Unless there's an asteroid coming, the likely scenario is that humans will survive for a long time. We survived ice ages when we were barely sentient apes and cave-dwelling savages, just because we had the ability to pick up stuff and wear animal hides

No. 23672

Oh fuck off

No. 23675

>and the collapse of civilization will also happen if no children are born? seems like you haven’t had to take care of an aging relative if you can brush off this issue as who’s going to fuck whose ugly sons.
Is it really so horrible to just die when you're old? Idk maybe it's because Alzheimer's runs in my family but once I'm at a point where I need elder care, I want out. Why do people need to spend a final decade bedbound and having their adult diapers changed by DIL?

No. 23689

I have researched women's communes in the past and learned about how they eventually ended. It was expected that new women would join and provide care to the founders they got older. However, this expectation was not fulfilled.
Regardless of how capable and self-reliant one may be, there comes a point in life where everyone requires assistance. In most cases, women from these communes either relocated to retirement homes or returned to their families. This issue will effect both single men or women as both demographic's get older. The only viable solution, in my opinion, is subsidized state care for the elderly. Its the only option.

No. 23696

I think a better option is assisted suicide for the elderly. Why do you want to keep living on a dying planet run by dumb hedonistic apes?

No. 23698

So you agree that women are slaves in life because of their biology? Cause… On top of that we are called evil femcel losers by other women if we don't fit into society, are sep/radfems or blackpilled, bullied and persecuted and have to deal with the torture chamber female socialization coming from many sources even women nature itself, men, patriarchy is and sex too, sex is inherently patriarchal but even all other women brainwash us with libfeminism to think it's not and the way woman also seek social approval for their own subjugation and push the ones who don't and can't handle it!?. It's just so shitty and the way our biology requires our mind to conform to our gender and to masochism to take all this shit??

No. 23705

File: 1712082317706.png (122.16 KB, 1117x836, capture.png)

A few weeks ago I looked up this second wave feminist lesbian who was experiencing some financial troubles getting a wheelchair for her disabled wife and it was really depressing to read. Obviously having a husband wouldn't have fixed all this. but I do think it's the responsibility of the government to take care of the old and disabled and this is one of the few cases where I do think feminists should have intersectionality with.

No. 23731

Why would women taking care of each other make them slaves? This kind of male thinking that you need to either be abusive or indifferent towards others in order to be a "superior" being is so damaging and irrational. No wonder the world is a miserable place and we're heading to extinction. Being a kind and caring person doesn't make you a submissive slave it's how everyone should be.

No. 23732

Labour of taking care of people still needs to be performed and paid for, governments need to collect taxes to pay for it, you still end up needing a working age population, and only way to have it is people having children.

No. 23733

while I think assisted suicide should be an option, most will not choose it in the end. It’s easy to think “I’d rather just die at that point” when you’re a depressed 20 something, but you’d be surprised at the desire to stay alive non-suicidal people will express even while experiencing excruciating cancer pain.
this is what worries me as well, thinking about all those elderly women who have chosen not to reproduce (as is their right) having no one taking care of them. Ofc this happens even today because healthcare is inadequate in most countries, but separatism is not a viable plan if it doesn’t come with a way to provide healthcare, which relies on the economy and government continuing to exist, which relies on children being born.

No. 23744

File: 1712195837217.jpeg (143.76 KB, 828x828, ygg2pec1.jpeg)

I just wanted a normal full life, but that chance was taken away from me because of the shit economy. I did everything right, I didn't spend too much, I saved up money while living with friends and it didn't work, I had to move back in with my parents and still need to have a job. It's not fair for anyone of us.

No. 23763

>and only way to have it is people having children.
Or automation kek. Convenient of you go leave that one out. For now the human population grows hugely by the year and there is no shortage of labor. Much of food production is automated nowadays and many facets to human survival like medicine production, many aspects of farming etc. Full scale research into Parthenogenesis and automation is the only way.

No. 23764

File: 1712252410091.mp4 (7.77 MB, XEiVFNSxcz2PI.mp4)

This is a clip from an interview with Nawal el Saadawi(the most prominent feminist from the Arab world) laying out her ideas of feminism, thoughts on it?

No. 23766

>we're not against men we're against patriarchy
and who created the patriarchy? and who benefits from it now?
I hate it when women delude themselves like that. There is no hope for manloving women.

No. 23768

she's a middle eastern feminist, where you can get murdered for even slightly criticizing Islam, she has to make best with the situation she's in.

No. 23769

To be fair I think she's genuinely not able to say she's against men even if she's thinking that and even if she's right to be against them (which she is). Arab moids already piss themselves at the notion that women are humans, do you think she would jeopardize the extremely shaky platform she has, that can be taken from her in 0.1 seconds by moids if they so wished, by going full radfem? For her own survival she has to be careful. This isn't like western feminists who coddle and manstroke scrotes. Her life could be in danger if she comes on too strong

No. 23770

Fair point.

No. 23775

This, Many Arab feminists were fervent supporters of Arab nationalism and Ba'athism because those movements were the only capable secular force in the Middle Esat. The only other options were the Islamists and democratic liberalism either did not exist or was often co-opted by Islamists. Thus women chose the least awful option.

No. 23832

Do you ladies have any recommendations to help introduce older women into feminism? My mother is a muslim woman and she's religious, no matter what I tell her or even the comments I make about my father being unfair to me (compared to my brother) she just brushes it off as being what god said. I'm trying to find books on this in urdu but I haven't found any yet and I don't think andrea dworkin is translated either (specifically right wing women).

No. 23843

File: 1712667267321.png (550.46 KB, 1024x838, BLcRqwt.png)

What do you think of Mary Whitehouse? cause I have seen many British feminists, such as Julie Bindle, Kathleen Stock and Victoria Smith casually praise her. For those who don't know, she was a British conservatory activist who went on moral crusade against obscenity in the media, as well as the merging porn Industry and she was hated for it. The entire British New Left did everything they could to mock her whenever they got the chance, cause she was a stupid old woman who didn't want to have any fun (mind you, she was also one of the most prominent voices in the fight against child porn and erotica)

No. 23850

I can take seriously to a certain degree any ''conservative'' woman who is openly against pornography and violence in media and who actively fights agains it, but she is with the wrong crowd so her attempts will inevitably fail because right wing parties are a cesspool of hypocrisy. Conservative men are some the biggest hypocrites when it comes to pornography (an many other issues, like reproductive rights). I didn't know about Mary Whitehouse but I will look her up, anon.

No. 23877

File: 1712826877767.jpg (464.14 KB, 1080x1990, 24110817.jpg)

"Radfems are sex negative!!"
Sexual relationships(aka what you want us subjected to):

No. 23879

I woulnd't be a sexhater if heterosexual sex wasn't literally just the moid using the woman as a sex doll as a prop for the movie thats playing in his head

No. 23899

Worst bait in a while

No. 23918

This is kind of cool

No. 23955

Every sort of sex is degrading though. The whole idea that it is for pleasure started it, when its only biological function is reproduction (if someone wants it).

No. 23980

The fact that women have clitorises that serve no function but provide physical pleasure disproves this. Go back to the blackpill thread

No. 23995

File: 1713394470865.jpg (115.64 KB, 634x960, 1000010645.jpg)

I miss /ot/'s pinkpill thread

No. 24000


Finally corporations are waking up about white libfems(racebaiting)

No. 24001


No. 24002

Except humanity has almost died out for several times in history already, but of course an illiterate arrogant moron like you wouldn't know it.
Another imbicile, you can piss yourself, that nona was right.

No. 24003

I’m not technically a radfem but there isn’t a single day where I don’t think about misogyny and it makes me want to kms

No. 24011

File: 1713455491815.gif (1021.12 KB, 379x284, FFEBE5C4-3566-4A37-A3C7-B58EDB…)

>karens and their crocodile imperial feminism against rape

If yt radfems read actual theory we'd be living in a different place. The reductionism they do, only caring about the sanctity of their precious yt vagina… I'm so glad people are waking up to the libfem infestation inside feminism.

I would never let a white woman drain my energy about freedom fighters. I would recommend them to self help books or a therapist they are male identified and I will mot allow them to drain my energy. They cannot be trusted and will always default to whiteness.(racebaiting)

No. 24012

“imbiciles” who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

No. 24015

Ignore that mod nonna, me and all principled radfems are 100% with you. All these white women care about are their imaginary rape fantasies with men of color while these men were defending women and children from Zionist genocide.(racebaiting)

No. 24017


R9k beckons to you, sir. Go back. Heed the call.

No. 24034

Look at the demographics between Zionist protests and protests for hamas freedom fighters and you'll see who the men and the patriarchy are with, sir.

No. 24036

obviously the people who think rape and the subjugation of women isn't a big deal and white women are making it all up are against the patriarchy. silly me.

No. 24041

Marcie from Peanuts gone wild?

No. 24050

if white women side with men while the majority of women protest for Hamas freedom fighters maybe it should tell you something about who real feminists are with and who MEN are defending. Vast majority speaking against white and jewish women ARE feminists.

Miss Anne just wants to run the plantation and protecting her dirty vagina.
She doesn't care about freeing the enslaved.

No. 24051

you’re the one fighting for men you fucking retard. who do you think the hamas is? majority of women are pickmesha’s that’s not fucking news.

No. 24052

Muslims are objectively more evil than Jews as a whole and eradicating Islam even in a small area is an honorable act. Notice how Israel is the only decent place in the entire Arabian peninsula

No. 24053

Children are easy to rape, so pedophiles have more babies than normies and create more pedophiles. Males aren’t people, they’re parasites. It’s fairly simple if you look at it through a scientific lens.

No. 24065

So the protests with the most women are defending the patriarchy while the ones almost exclusively done by men are for women? I know you lot are stupid but now you're should-be-sacrificed dumb.
Hamas has a LOT of women, most attacks on Israel are done by women, you have no idea what you're talking about and you should educate yourself before people rightfully take you out of society.

Read all of these before talking if you don't want to look like a dumb ignorant karen or shut the fuck up.
You're embarrassing yourself.
White Feminism: From the Suffragettes to Influencers and Who They Leave Behind https://a.co/d/eKqz74v
Against White Feminism: Notes on Disruption https://a.co/d/6qGgwv1
Dear White Women, It's Not You. It's Me. I'm Breaking Up With You!: Commentaries on Race, White Feminism, Allyship and Intersectionality https://a.co/d/6OYrNyH
White Women's Rights: The Racial Origins of Feminism in the United States https://a.co/d/dvwdgat

No. 24066

Racists are objectively more evil than Hamas freedom fighters as a whole and eradicating racists even in a small area is an honorable act.

No. 24068

File: 1713724730755.jpeg (27.64 KB, 650x472, images (5).jpeg)

Yes the place where pornography is legalized and women are sexually exploited is the feminist one, while Palestine defends women's dignity from misogyny and objectification is the bad side according to you lmao
Not today sir :)(baiting)

No. 24082

Trying to get picked by crusty Muslim rapists who would honor kill you in an instant has to be a new low for women.(infighting)

No. 24087

File: 1713814385678.jpg (90.01 KB, 524x760, index.jpg)

Do you anons have any female role models that you actively try to imitate?
I've been considering making a sort of inspo board for myself, and decided to make one of the motifs to be concrete examples of women who have already achieved what I want. If you could drop a few names of women that you recognize to be intelligent, confident, pragmatic, successful (materially and otherwise), prioritize their own best interest and consistently maintain high standards for themselves – the type of women that misogynistic dogs would dismiss as cold ruthless bitches – I would love to hear about them.

No. 24088

maybe you're just a racist? maybe all the women leading feminists organizations are RIGHT and you're simply racist?
do you think it's just a silly coincidence that every feminist organization in universities strongly side with muslims and freedom fighters?
feminists got tired of yt women's fake tears about sexism but staying oblivious and complicit with racism. evolve, be better, you're embarassing yourself.

No. 24089

Yes, it's all the radical feminist organizations that are wrong about Muslims and Hamas, not your racist brainwashed ass.

The reason why some of you love to side with white men against hamas and muslims need to be studied its beyond lame at this point(infighting)

No. 24116

Women are so indoctrinated into servitude that even in the femdom thread anons are arguing that its totes femdom to suck dick and make moids cum. Bleak

No. 24118

>make moids cum
But why would a moid even partake in "femdom" if he isn't getting off to it in the first place? Those guys get off by having women kick them in the dick, you're helping them get off whether you intend to or not.

No. 24125

Conversations about sex expose who's low iq truly lol. Female sexual domination is unnatural, natural straight sex dynamic is about women being empaths in sex and psychologically getting off on male pleasure. It's about serving men and what makes a slave like being a slave is pleasing her master, women get most stimulation from serving men in sex. The submission is biological not individual person choice. It's what your body is in relation with male and biology is the real life not anything else. Femdom can't exist, it's literally just women initiating pleasuring men, I saw a woman there say that she just wants to "coom" as a defense of sucking dick like a pig(cause it makes your face expressions look like a pig) but this act only physically pleasures men like wow it's soo different from any other sex anf you should definitely categorize it as "female dominance"!! Making men scream from pleasure is not female dominance. It's just women serving men,nothing new. Women aren't socialized to serve men in sex, it's biological like I said lol so femdom is just same shit as any other male dominance or actually its even more male worship. No bigger suifuel than these femdom women saying they love bringing men heavenly pleasure and pretending they dominate them through it. Pleasure women aren't able to experience and a person empathetically being pleased through pleasing others is a servant. If you psychologically don't get pleased by male pleasure then you have less than nothing in straight sex. It's sex work either way. Sex only serves men and women get psychological pleasure from serving, repeating it again pleasure on both sides but completely different one. Femdom is a torture content for women like me tbh. It's moids heaven. And the image of a grown women body jumping around dick putting it in her gross mouth in desperation to please the moid and being in a mental state of wanting the moids pleasure and moving in ways that make her become a submissive extension of him shaking her head or ass on dick is just an image from hell. Looks like any other straight sex. Google pictures of sex to see human biology, female and male body in sex and tell me the female body doesn't even look servile. The way man and a woman can physically engage in sex only allows the woman in servile positions and the way female body receives stimulation is motion going inwards or psychologically from empathy for the moid. Only women in sex mentally are in a trance where they empathetically seek to please the other person and take their pleasure as their own. Femdom hoes can go to hell, I don't wanna read about men screaming in pleasure unachievable to me and women doing the most degrading sexual acts and getting psychological pleasure from sadomasochism and kneeling to men. See pictures of this act cause it exposes all of you femdom retards, how is this shit a domination!? And where the man reciprocating it all? He even can't and he won't even commit to you after all this pleasure anyway. The name femdom is misleading and when people start arguing with you about it claiming you're bad for stating facts then it just gets insufferable.
I hate sex havers so much and the more sex positive straight woman is the more servile sexually she is. Bring back modesty and shame or something instead of sharing about how you worship moids and call it dominant. Drop the Conversations about sex expose who's low iq truly lol. Femdom is unnatural, natural straight sex dynamic is about women being empaths in sex and psychologically getting off on male pleasure. It's about serving men and what makes a slave like being a slave is pleasing her master, women get most stimulation from serving men in sex. The submission is biological not individual person choice. It's what your body is in relation with male and biology is the real life not anything else. Femdom can't exist, it's literally just women initiating pleasuring men, I saw a woman there say that she just wants to "coom" as a defense of sucking dick like a pig(cause it makes your face expressions look like a pig) but this act only physically pleasures men. Making men scream from pleasure is not female dominance. It's just women serving men,nothing new. Women aren't socialized to serve men in sex, it's biological like I said lol so femdom is just same shit as any other male dominance or actually its even more male worship. No bigger suifuel than these femdom women saying they love bringing men heavenly pleasure and pretending they dominate them through it. Pleasure women aren't able to experience and a person empathetically being pleased through pleasing others is a servant. If you psychologically don't get pleased by male pleasure then you have less than nothing in straight sex. It's sex work either way. Sex only serves men and women get psychological pleasure from serving which proves sex requires deep submission from the woman to the moid. Femdom is a torture content for women like me tbh. It's moids heaven. And the image of a grown women body jumping around dick putting it in her gross mouth in desperation to please the moid and being in a mental state of wanting the moids pleasure and moving in ways that make her become a submissive extension of him shaking her head or ass on dick is just an image from hell. Looks like any other straight sex. Google pictures of sex to see human biology, female and male body in sex and tell me the female body doesn't even look servile. The way man and a woman can physically engage in sex only allows the woman in servile positions and the way female body receives stimulation is motion going inwards or psychologically from empathy for the moid. Only women in sex mentally are in a trance where they empathetically seek to please the other person and take their pleasure as their own. Moids get served. Femdom bitches can go to hell, I don't wanna read about men screaming in pleasure unachievable to me and women doing the most degrading sexual acts and getting psychological pleasure from sadomasochism and kneeling to men. See pictures of this act cause it exposes all of you femdom retards. I hate sex havers so much and the more sex positive straight woman is the more servile sexually she is. Bring back modesty and shame or something instead of sharing about how you worship moids and call it dominant. Drop the retarded femdom cope, it's cringe but feminist spaces are infested with it and very stubborn about acting like it's real and feminist. Literally the whole issue here is the word "femdom"

No. 24145

Repulsive. Most of the women here on /g/ and /ot/ in particular are sad pickme handmaidens.

No. 24154

yt feminists are so entitled they think people who are busy fighting for freedom against genocide would have interest in their smelly vaginas.These Karen’s are very draining just being in the same space as them.(racebaiting)

No. 24157

I'm curious who you have on the inspo board already

No. 24165

Queen post. How did the melanin deprived mutants find their way onto thinking they're with radical feminism? Zionist women get the bullet too.(racebaiting)

No. 24171

I'm sick to absolute bastard death of every woman online nowadays yapping and endlessly navelgazing about "healthy masculinity" and men's mental health. I know it's because they think it makes them uber-enlightened and turbowoke but does it not get boring to go under the picture of a man in chipped nail polish and write 50 paragraphs about how he exudes "peak healthy masculinity" and how we need to protect his ugly ass at all costs. And sooo many women do this nowadays it feels like I'm taking crazy pills. Every women online is going on and on about "female on male abuse" and men's mental health it feels like they've all been bought by Big Male to shill for moids

When did this actually happen. Like how did we get from casual kam jokes in the early 10s to every woman now falling over herself to show how much she manstrokes and prioritizes males and their "problems" and how much she is willing to absolutely shit on other women and act like she's protecting moids from women. Do women really hate themselves that much? I know one symptom of women hating themselves to bits is the mass trooning of girls but for every self hating tif there's like five non transitioning women posting all day about how much she loves men and how men are the greatest and how they actually suffer sooooo much under the diabolical manipulative ways of women

No. 24212

There are women in this thread defending white men against muslims opposing actual radical feminism. Some people are just brainwashed by liberalism.

No. 24215

Our freedom is more important than Abduls "right" to rape 9 year olds. Also statistically females have better hygiene and scent. Are you sure the rotten dick cheese smell isn't coming from your smelly rape beasts who literally cant wash their own butts?

No. 24221

Why respond to an obvious bait message the anon already got banned for

No. 24227

Radical feminism is healing itself from yt feminism and yt men interests. You're the only one against women here.(ban evading, baiting)

No. 24231

Stop the larp, you will never be a WOC.

No. 24253

File: 1714593510588.png (442.68 KB, 1000x773, ppp.png)

No. 24268

I agree. I think a major problem with these conservative women is that their crowd is dedicated to protecting and expanding capitalism more than anything and the result of that type of capitalist expansion is poor desperate women who go into the sex industry. Radical feminists teamed up with the same reagan administration that was imposing neoliberalism domestically and globally, and was fighting a Cold War against countries where porn was illegal and half of scientists were women

to fight porn in the 80s and are surprised that neoliberal global takeover resulted in their own marginalization in feminism in favor or pro sex industry culture rationalizations. Even Lenin said sexual and material relations will change after the revolution and that shows to be true with what happened after the 80s neoliberal counterrevolution won by radfem allies.

No. 24330

I made a tumblr post just saying that wearing a hijab isn’t empowering and a fellow white girl is saying I’m not allowed to comment on the matter since I’m not muslim. Does anyone have a good compilation list/info of the hijab being a misogynistic and oppressive weapon?

No. 24331

Women have to wear it on pain of being stoned or assaulted, what more do you need? But I wouldn’t bother with libfems, they’re retarded

No. 24333

LIB fems? Are LIB fems the ones defending Islam?
Do you just call "lib" whoever disagrees with you?
Marxist radical feminists are not racist, are on the side of Palestine against Zionist liberalism and you're the liberal one.

black women made a gender critical WOC on reddit because we were all banned for discussing or pointing out racism.

They were just dead set, unwilling to hear from a black woman's perspective, to empathize with us.

To call a hijab or Islam oppressive is racist and yes racism affects Women too.(islam sperging)

No. 24334

The horror that a woman has customs in place to protect them from sexualization and exploitation, unlike your white patriarchal society.

Do you also support prostitution?
feminism is suppose to be about the well being and advancement of all females not just white females.(islam sperging)

No. 24336

Not the moderator being on the same side of white men against muslim women on the radical feminism thread.
Liberal Feminists Have Lost the Plot.
female liberation cannot exist under capitalism. liberal feminism that insists we can "girlboss" our way to equality is for white women.

No. 24337

You see "radical feminists" siding with white men against Palestine and Hamas because for the majority of them "feminism" radical or otherwise essentially comes down to them having a temper tantrum over their white zaddy not giving them what they want, and feminism is their way of trying to make a point. Once their men give them what they want, they couldn't give less than a fµck about everyone else. Because it's not about us, even when they lie about wanting solidarity and unity with women of other races. It's always about them and getting what they want from their white patriarchy.

No. 24338

ITT: white moids pretending to be black women.

No. 24347

It's the same tranny from the "right wing feminist" thread who was larping as a black woman and started sperging about le white women not being woke enough after him larping as a "white right-wing feminist" to try and convert actual women didn't work. He's on some weird "If you will not take my side, I will MAKE you!" agenda, but he's poorly socialized and retarded, so it just never works. He embarrasses himself every time, endlessly samefags and probably makes up a good percentage of posts in /2X/ atp because it's always so desolate in here. Sad.

No. 24392

File: 1715494741426.png (32.31 KB, 714x207, Screenshot 2024-05-12 001528.p…)

From an extremely based radfem schizo in response to the question: Can someone explain to me why the feminine perception of "horror" is actually terrifying compared to masculine perception of horror? Many people have asked her to write a substack I think she should write a manifesto

No. 24394

Ok but the male behavior actually does serve the female biological instincts and what women want, they wanna be desired by men and also my personal idea of horror is more female biology and what women do with men like sucking their dicks which looks like images from hell and the better someone sees this act as the more piggish a woman acts and women just do cause of their desires. Womanhood is horror cause of our own biology first then men and rest some delulu misandry is cringe victim mentality and projecting your pretended morals etc. Onto other women who are busy fucking men rn cause they deeply love and protect what men embody and female life is horror cause of what women embody physically and it's position in sex and sex is the core of a human being and their psychology. Female position in "sex" is service, powerless and submission and reproduction actually is a female interest

No. 24395

You make the most autistic posts on this site.

No. 24398

All I said is facts and expose human degeneracy by giving examples of it and then get called a degenerate for it even by real degenerates but I'm a real person and a woman with a real testimony of how someone like me living as a woman but not being into being submissive or degraded feels about existence meaning our biology lol what a post being autistic even means. I always use my imagination while perceiving things even what other humans say and my mind creating fuller picture just disproves anything they said that doesn't connect or isn't based on real life which is nature, human biology etc. It makes zero sense to others how I feel about things but I'm real

No. 24403

What's schizo about this? It reads fairly reasonable, it's just simply unspoken in many women.

No. 24454

What is not explicitly mentioned here is that horror comes from our bodies and the way men can act on them at any time. Because of rape and unwanted pregnancies, we are always living with a horror movie as background music (or a baseline as she put it.) That’s why horror created by men can feel weak, silly, contrived etc.
“Woman does not dream of transcendental or historical escape from natural cycle, since she is that cycle… the ancients knew that woman is bound to natures calendar, an appointment she cannot refuse. The Greek pattern of free will to hybris to tragedy is a male drama, since woman has never been deluded (until recently) by the mirage of free will. She knows there is no free will, since she is not free. She has no choice but acceptance. Whether she desires motherhood or not, nature yokes her into the brute inflexible rhythm of procreative law. Menstrual cycle is an alarming clock that cannot be stopped until nature wills it… The female body is a chthonian machine, indifferent to the spirit which inhabits it. Organically, it has one mission, pregnancy, which we may spend a lifetime staving off. Nature cares only for species, never individuals: the humiliating dimensions of this biologic fact are most directly experienced by women.”

No. 24456

For those who are good at debating and expressing your opinions, did you have to practice a lot? Are you naturally very steadfast and opinionated? I’m genuinely so fucking retarded at talking to others in general, let alone trying to get someone to think about such a niche political view. I’m holding off labeling myself as a radical feminist because I believe I will be giving the movement a bad name, but I want others to understand so badly, because I believe it’s truly the right way to think… Is confidence a big part of it? Radfeminism aside, I could be debating that the water is wet and they can say “nah” and I’ll think “fuck, maybe they’re right. I’m so stupid.” How do you do it? I tried to get someone to understand something so basic, that paid sex is coerced sex, but I instantly got so anxious and forgot everything that mattered. Do I just leave that stuff to other more capable radfems or is there a way to get better?

No. 24464

Read more books.

No. 24466

Gnostic vibes, i like it kek

No. 24501

Try to collect yourself before you speak. Getting heated will only interfere with your ability to present your points clearly and articulately. If you can take a more stoic approach to it it'd help a lot. I'm still dealing with this myself. I avoid talking about these topics unless I can keep cool. It's a very personal issue so sometimes it's hard to compartmentalize my personal feelings from the actual argument. You sound like you can express yourself well, at least through text, so it's probably the pressure that's getting to you.

No. 25309

Takes practice for me personally. I will make an argument or comment then realize afterwards it would have been better if I said it a certain way and if I added this or that point, and next time, if I remember which is not guaranteed, I’ll do it the better way I realized too late the first time, and this process can repeat with the same argument. You also should read a lot, listen to podcasts and the news to find people with good arguments you can use in this process, and also talking points from the opposing side you need to learn how to address. You come to find things that work and discard things you don’t like or find pointless.

Arguing with people or presenting your thoughts to people gives you exposure to opposing views or pushback you can think about how to respond, research. This is part of the process of refining and strengthening your pov and arguments too. I think it takes years to develop some of your arguments/stance and it’s always evolving.

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