/ot/ - off-topic

What's there to talk about? The speaker puts forward a lot of valid points, whereas the comments section is completely losing their shit over "FEMINISM RUINS EVERYTHING".

Ok OP sure

Happens that I recently got the book, but I could only stand skimming through it because its a definitely a typical entry in the modern "self help" genre. That means every fucking paragraph is structured like this:

A research study done by X University in 20XX examined how…[The experiment is described]. [The conclusions from the experiment are described.] [The conclusions are brought back into the greater context of the book's overall conclusion.]

Over. And over. And over. It's so mind-numbingly boring, and it's such a waste of precious fucking time. Just get out all of your message already. I will suspend my disbelief for a couple hours to let you give your point. Then provide your sources at the end for me to peruse at my leisure. I don't need to be spoonfed every drop of scientific research and widespread data-trends alongside every god damn statement.

Anyway, beyond that he makes some good, granted pretty obvious, points. Porn and vidya games are holding men back. Willpower is in short supply. Women are better suited to getting through school. Everything checks out with my own life experience.

IMO that's just how its going to be. The cream will rise to the top and the manchildren will stay manchildren until society collapses and their lack of go-gettitude can no longer be enabled. Its not really a ground breaking book.

TBH, I am more fearful of the societal conventions that create the demand for books written like this. Can people really not read one full page without sperging out and yelling "SOURCES??!!" any more? Do we really only have ears for hard-data backed scientific research that, btw, can easily be (and often is) warped and reframed by authors to support a huge range of conclusions? I think skepticism has grown to the point where it's no longer helpful. We ignore common sense and wisdom. We only listen to the information that perceived authority figures gives to us. That's more frightening to me than manchildren.

>>88533
I agree. Repeating sources mid-paragraph ad nauseam is often just a form of gish gallop.

Citing sources is still really important though, including with easy ways for a reader to access the original sources for free. I always read the actual source when it's cited, to make sure the author isn't cherry picking or extrapolating too much.

>>88533

>>TBH, I am more fearful of the societal conventions that create the demand for books written like this. Can people really not read one full page without sperging out and yelling "SOURCES??!!" any more? Do we really only have ears for hard-data backed scientific research that, btw, can easily be (and often is) warped and reframed by authors to support a huge range of conclusions? I think skepticism has grown to the point where it's no longer helpful. We ignore common sense and wisdom.

true!

>>88535
>> I always read the actual source when it's cited, to make sure the author isn't cherry picking or extrapolating too much.

Then I suppose you don't read a lot on philosophy or history? Imagine someone "always reading the actual source" like the complete works of Hegel of Aristotle just to make sure the author isn't bullshitting him. Honestly I haven’t even once read all the sources of an article throughout my entire academic career.

>>88533
Well that's a big disappointing. I was curious about this phenomenon that is getting worse and worse everyday

>>88533
Seems fair.

I've been thinking about vidya a lot lately. In the 90s, you had basically the attitude era of games. Games were intense, kick-your-ass, fuck you experiences where you died over and over cruelly and mercilessly. Now gamers only get that with, say, Dark Souls, and maybe Spelunky. I bet if you did a test, you'd get more grills watching dudes play hard games instead of some manwhale faggot playing Minecraft. Especially if he's building some ponyshit shrine with 10,000 esoteric mods.

More and more women are playing things like Diablo 3 and WoW because women, well, aren't looking to get their asses kicked. The fucked up part is dudes aren't willing to take a fucking chance either, and frankly it makes my pussy dry.

>>88540
>Honestly I haven’t even once read all the sources of an article throughout my entire academic career.
I meant when some retard links sources in Internet arguments. In actual academic papers, I usually don't bother. Sometimes I'll Google around for analyses of the paper to sees if someone else bothered with checking and critiquing the sources, though.

>>88733
And another thing.

Speaking of ponyshit, I'm goddamn sick and tired of "men" being into cartoons. Literally what the fuck are you doing.

Here's the thing. Kids shows have shallow emotional depth because kids are ignorant. Children will never watch Ulysseys: The Cartoon because they hear and see it as so much nonsense because they're undeveloped.

Likewise, ponyfags, as I'll call the various fur-fascinated fandoms for simplicity's sake, and because I'm fucking upset, have all the depth of a kiddie pool, as a standing ogre experiences it.

Just fuck my shit up fam.

>>88735
I agree, but you could make the same argument for all the users here who watch kids' anime.

My ex is this exact kind of guy they're talking about; spent too much time playing vidya and watching porn. Dropped out of uni because he couldn't turn off his computer long enough to get sleep to make it class. Everything in his life that he complained about was a result of some other poorly thought out action. People like this have always existed, I think. It's just the internet and social media allows us to see who is who

>>88735
I'm just tired of that in "adults" in general. Like what does it say about some mid 20s college dropout when their top 5 interests stem from something they enjoyed in kindergarten? Where they stare in awe at someone who does their taxes promptly, by themselves, and without complaining about it.

There's a mounting body of evidence that suggests that too much use of electronic screens causes problems like social anxiety and can cause all sorts of morphological brain changes. It's just not healthy and turns guys into betas.

I think it's a huge problem. People are becoming addicted to seeking out novel stimuli. It's why I spend hours refreshing sites like these on the computer. It allows people to isolate themselves because it provides entertainment so they don't get super bored and go do something more productive and social, and it lets people with social anxiety get their socialization fix in ways that provoke less anxiety, but don't exactly teach them social skills.

The guys who do have good social skills and are attractive either become players who treat women like trash or are actually good guys who are really rare and are generally in long term relationships and therefore unavailable. Most women only get to experience getting hurt by the first type of guy because all the guys who wouldn't treat her like trash are too scared to even talk to them and are often clingy, insecure, and awkward which makes them unattractive. Women don't want men that run to them crying with all their problems and feelings.

We have to fix those men. I believe that the answer is going to be cutting people off from any electronic screens. A doctor named Victoria Dunkley has proposed a syndrome for too much electronic screen usage and she has found that completely stopping access to screens for three weeks is effective at reducing the symptoms in 80% of cases.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mental-wealth/201207/electronic-screen-syndrome-unrecognized-disorder

>>88740
>she has found that completely stopping access to screens for three weeks is effective at reducing the symptoms in 80% of cases.

I really wish I could try this. I'm one of the self-isolating manchildren caught up in this shit, but unfortunately I also make my living freelancing online. I can't cut my PC out of my life completely, and as a result I'm constantly struggling with letting my vices control me through the screen.

Idk if the book talks about this but I'm pretty sure I know where all of this comes from and how to correct it. I think our society should be treating video games like fucking heroin. They're worthless, time-wasting, life-eating shit. I don't give a fuck about "the benefits." A tenth-of-a-second faster response time is not worth the hundreds of hours video games will suck out of a kid's life in the process. And I'd bet anything that if you measured the average gamer's reflexes against someone who grew up playing sports, they'd get their asses handed to them by the jock.

When you grow up playing video games you grow up associating screens with easy instant gratification. Then you discover porn and internet browsing and it just gets worse and worse. If I ever have kids, I won't ever let them TOUCH a video game controller. My parents let me waste my youth in front of a screen because they didn't understand video games and didn't know any better. I do, and I won't let my kids make that same mistake. The only entertainment in my house will be books. If you want excitement, if you want to have fun, that's what LEAVING THE HOUSE is for.

>>88738

A lot of anime genuinely possesses since pretty savage emotional depth though.
Cowboy Bebop for example, obviously a classic, but my personal favourite being Planetes which is such a uniquely animated social commentary. You do very rarely find an animation like this that tackles social, political, emotional and mental issues all at once, let alone one set in the future in a realistic, wholly believable setting.
I can't imagine a child watching Planetes and enjoying it, they'd probably think it was boring.

Can this apply to women in any way?

I only have my computer since I'm an ugly fuck and people treat me like trash.

Help me. I'm a smartphone addict

>>88756

I don't think societies attitude towards video games is the problem at all. It's one of those fallacies that relies on downplaying personal responsibility in lieu of attacking merely a symptom of the actual problem.

Today I hear so many people saying stuff like "oh I just can't pull myself away from the computer", "I have no self control". The truth is, you can pull yourself away at any time, you just have no sense of personal responsibility or the discipline to take control of your destiny because at the end of the day you know that if you fuck up, somebody's going to be there to pick up the crap you've left behind - be it a partner or your parents or the government.

If you had more at stake, something you actually cared about, you'd have no problem turning that shit off.

Sorry dude but honestly, you just need discipline.

I don't really want to go down this route either but tbh I feel like the reason this is kind of an overwhelmingly a male problem is because in Western culture, at least from the era we both hail, I was raised knowing that as a female I was always going to be at a disadvantage (because sexism was still very much rampant in the 90's). The result of this being that I would try really hard in my education and was constantly seeking out new knowledge and new wisdom in order to stay ahead of the game.
I noticed a lot of boys raised in the 90's had quite the opposite problem. You all go through the educational system studying Kings and presidents, scientists, novelists and artists. The thing these all have in common? They're almost exclusively male figures in history. Winners.
Where are the females in history? Well aside from tossing in the token Cleopatra lesson or the module on Mary Shelley, all you ever hear about women in history is their lives as wives, as prizes and property or as domestic servants. Losers (this is why I don't laugh when people say they study Women's Studies, our gendered history is SO important).

Like it or not this does ultimately create a subconscious sense of both entitlement and arrogance towards ones place in the world, the result being that today we have an entire generation of females that are instructed to work hard and excel, constantly trying to fill the gaps in out history for which we've been previously excluded or ignored, and the males, who through continuous exposure during critical developmental periods, are subconsciously riding a wave of historical supremacy.
When things don't go the way they've been indoctrinated into believing will eventually happen for them, they withdraw into a world of porn and vidya where they're able to engineer they're own little universe in which they're the winners once more.
imo this is why you constantly here guys from places such as /pol/ and /r9k/ talking about the "good old days".

Just FYI though extreme procrastination is often a product of anxiety and low self-esteem in the present, so look into that too.

>>88805

Sorry about any typos or oddly worded sentences btw, I just typed this from my phone.

>>88805

But yeah, looking at images such as this, as a woman it doesn't exactly fill me with a sense of accomplishment or awe.

As a male, how does it make you guys feel?
Do you feel like it's exclusively male because women are naturally predispositioned towards submission and servitude, or is it the result of centuries worth of anthropological gendered policy with the intent of creating structure and order in a more chaotic age.
If you believe in the latter then really the answer is not that neither males nor females possess a specific academic advantage over the other, we are equal in intellectual potential, however it is a combination of various socio-cultural factors relating to roles at any given time that influence our response towards either total societal success of failure. That is what I believe.

It will eventually iron out as things continue to equalise over the coming centuries.
In terms of gendered equality this is truly an age of experimentation. I mean it's never REALLY been done before so of course there are going to be a few generational kinks to work out. This is just one of them and I don't believe it will last.

>>88798
If the problem is extreme social awkwardness to the point it causes real problems in your life, from the result of overexposure to instant gratification sources like porn and vidya, I don't see why it wouldn't. I think the causes would be different, probably social media instead of vidya. The instant gratification of social media has influenced a generation of young girls to hide behind their screens and warps their perceptions of the world and social behavior. See all of the cows on /pt/ who have zero idea how to behave in real life and still maintain their accounts despite acting like retards and getting called out for it. These women don't know how to deal with 1 on 1 male interaction and then you get "legbeards" who hideaway in their homes like these guys do, or they turn to promiscuity in lieu of fulfilling relationships. Then you have sites dominated by women like Tumblr, which actively enable, if not encourage, destructive behaviors.

>>88756
I mostly agree with >>88805 (except on Women's Studies as a field). Your whole reply reeks of the same kind of blame-deflecting tactics that these people are always using. Oh it's not MY fault I'm addicted to the internet, video games are like heroin! It's not MY fault girls don't like me, It's not MY fault… Just because you grew up a certain way doesn't always mean you're doomed to live like that forever. It's easy to blame vidya, porn, and clueless parents, but if you're an adult then you really have no excuse anymore to not take control over your life. Use the computer only when you're doing work, and shut it down after every use. Instead of waiting for society's influence, you, yourself, start treating vidya like heroin and stop playing them. Delete all your games, blacklist the sites that enable gaming, get rid of your consoles/equipment. If you actually feel like this is a problem in your life then do. something. about. it.

It's my opinion that, in part, the social problems people face stem from the inability to "suck it up" and just do it even if its unpleasant for you. School is becoming a bit difficult? Drop out. Parents nagging at you? Hide in your room instead of talking to them or working towards actual solutions. Felt embarrassed ordering your pizza from the shop because the counter girl was cute? Order online from now on. And then after you've taken the easy way out for all these separate things, big and small, you've successfully created an actual issue in your life that will look insurmountable and your mental health will decline, and it will look like the only option you have is to continue to live online, squirreled away in your room, and becoming further disconnected from society.

>>88738
>>88767
They did say kids' anime, which is a whole different genre from Cowboy Bebop. It's like comparing Adventure Time to something like the Simpsons or Southpark (I don't know cartoons, but I believe these are more geared for adult audiences). Adults who ~identify~ with the garbage on Cartoon Network are all disgusting manchildren. I don't know a lot of kids' anime but I guess it would be like ~identifying~ with Pokemon or Digimon or something (which these manchildren also do, surprise).

>I mostly agree with >>88805 (except on Women's Studies as a field)

Roo roo ree ree.

But really? Don't you think it's kind of historically irresponsible to have an entire section of peoples washed over or brushed aside due to their roles being perceived as unimportant?

It's kind of the reason why do many people have such a Western-centric perspective on topics such as colonialism and the African Diaspora i.e. history focuses on the bardic perception of predominantly white, male victors of the era and their experiences and achievements whereas the natives of the land, the losers… well, if you ask anybody about pre-colonial African history and culture they will often reply that they didn't believe that Africa had a history or a culture.
This is actually pretty dangerous, you need to record EVERYTHING or that's how information, culture and traditions are lost, as they have been and continue to do. You need the past to build a progressive future.

>>88821
They probably mean it because of what it's been turned into, not because of the idea of women's studies. I'd be really interested in legit women's studies, but everything I've looked into has been the worst of tumblr put into a class/group.

>>88821
>>88833
Nah, I just mean as an entirely separated field. Women's history is important, and really should be pushed to be fully integrated into the "mainstream" fields to illuminate all budding academics instead of relegated to an optional course mostly taken by the kinds of people already interested in this stuff anyway. I once took a history course on the Soviet Union and the professor was very active in including Soviet women's accomplishments and contributions (and their overall roles in that society without being dismissive or belittling), and I found that to be very conducive to the kinds of balanced learning you're advocating for.

Sectioning off also has the unfortunate outcome of othering the topic and sends the message of "well if you really want to know this stuff, here's a place for you (otherwise nothing is gonna change, kiddo)". It will also be susceptible to the echochamber effect where you have all this commotion within itself that builds into something completely irrelevant (tumblr feminism).

And heck, university is expensive. If I'm going to streamline my education, I'm going to take required courses, and other courses directly relevant or useful to my major. I'm sure there's many students like this. And, more often than not, Women's Studies classes are the chaff to be discarded for the majority of students. As it is, Women's Studies courses are taken and sought for by people who already realize its importance, where they really should be found available to the minds most far removed from this topic.

>>88841
Sorry, had another thought. I just looked at my university's Women's Studies (actually called "Gender, Race, Sexuality and Social Justice") and even just listing "Gender, Race, Sexuality, and Social Justice in Literature" under some Literature or the English department or "Globalization and Social Justice: Gender, Race, and Sexuality in International Politics" in the Political Science department would do a lot more to bring attention to these issues to people who may find this interesting but would not have otherwise actively searched for something like this.

>>88833

Well I mean you say "because of what it's been turned into", but all most of us REALLY know about the field of Women's Studies is this meme it has been turned into.

Has anybody here ever actually attended a module class, or know anybody that does it? I sure don't.

wew those comments are full of crying betas. men always get so angry and emotional when they get pushed out of the limelight and it's funny as fuck.