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Townhall is scheduled for May 22nd, GMT 2PM.

File: 1557085864176.jpg (38.92 KB, 640x626, you-are-cute-and-you-cant-chan…)

No. 406909

Crowder is cancer but what do you guys think of a 'change my mind/view' thread?

Doesn't need to be like a serious debate one. Mostly just interested in interesting anecdotal tidbitty stuff people believe that would be interesting to see if people disagree on and how/why that is.

No. 406916

Joy. More imageboard arguments that don't get anywhere

No. 406920

Overpopulation is not a problem, but excessive, wasteful consumption by those with the most money/power in first-world countries.
Third world countries are not being "supported" by first world countries giving foreign aid. It's a front to scam citizens of first world countries into paying extra money to their own governments (or private companies that pocket most of it for themselves), and one of many excuses to keep the first world countries' greedy hands on the third world countries to mine fruits, vegetables, oil, etc.
I'm willing to accept any links/resources/actual evidence that directly go against this.

No. 406922

Who says it has to? Why can't people just explore reasoning? I'm interested in anecdotes people have collected about the world and the reasons why they feel that way/why they don't. Idk what life is like for all people and it's interesting to me, especially considering this is such a specific cross-section of the internet that isn't easily found on say, reddit, but ok.

I don't think the concept needs to necessarily be chalked up to "it doesn't get anywhere". Imo, it doesn't need to, but ok.

No. 406923

We already have an unpopular opinion thread that basically accomplishes the same thing ie. Nothing

No. 406924

Overpopulation is a huge problem and money isn’t going to solve it. It’s a matter of resources.

No. 406926

The people being blamed for the issue of "overpopulation" are not the ones consuming the most resources.

No. 406927

The primary, and most important, difference being that those opinions need to be considered unpopular to be on topic, whereas here you can discuss all issues regardless of how popular or unpopular they are, and in the unpopular opinion thread you can't continue speaking/disagree much without it then being infighting and thus, off-topic. The goal of the thread is not to potentially disagree in depth so you can't really say too much or reference back too much, etc.

No. 406930

i agree with this. take for example the pollution produced by individual countries, richer countries generally produce more pollution than poorer ones. people in 3rd world, and even in 2nd world countries use up exponentially less resources than people in the 1st world.

the problem isnt overpopulation, its greedy fuckers and their companies using up resources for themselves, and then trying to shift the blame onto everyone else when their actions have serious consequences.

No. 406942

The same people that complain about first world countries overusing resources are the ones living first world lifestyles. Go live in a tent off the grid and then maybe we’ll talk.

No. 406946

Agreed. By saying the problem is overpopulation it transfers the responsability to people to have less children instead of the fucking greedy companies. Just like saying "oh don't use plastic straws, help save the environment, go vegan, go green!" means shit when companies are still doing the very same things.

No. 406952

File: 1557093181746.png (94.8 KB, 814x578, e47.png)

NTA, but this is you right now. Anon is (probably) not in the same sphere as someone like Jeff Bezos. Even if she, or you, or me go to live in a tent, the people making up the bulk of these problems will keep doing what they're doing. Comments like this are largely worthless, and really only serve to suppress any valid criticism of the status quo.

No. 406954

This is exactly the problem. Until you work for one of the big box retail stores (ie Wal-Mart), you don't realize how incredibly fucking wasteful one single store can be let alone dozens more. Hundreds of graphics printed and sent to stores to be put up for a week to maybe a month before being thrown away. The plastic they use to put pricing onto shelves and on the pegs holding items is constantly replaced when it gets old/broken (which is a lot). Store chains will collect the old cardboard to be recycled, but that doesn't mean they make an effort to recycle everything (paper, plastic, etc). Damaged items are simply thrown away, even if otherwise functional (like a garbage can without a lid).

It's like the water and soda companies pointing their finger at the consumer for not recycling their planet-harmful plastic bottles. Until the government stops fellating the companies for $$$ and makes them accountable, we're kinda fucked.

No. 406955

Then what’s the solution? Since apparently it’s a braindead line of thinking to tell people to stop lining Jeff Bezos’ pockets in order to make him less money.

No. 406960

Raising awareness and demanding change on a mass scale that includes everyone, not just the little people. Watching those in power like hawks and not just advocating everything to our own personal responsibilities in some misguided, sad attempt at thinking you alone can save the world.
We need to stop scolding each other for not always turning off the lights when we leave the house or wearing graphic tees made in factories for the world collapsing, and start grilling those who use up exponential amounts of energy and resources on a huge scale for things that don't need it.
Jeff Bezos is not some uncontrollable, unchanging part of nature. Hold him and those like him accountable for their actions, and do whatever is necessary to make them do better. They don't have to sell and make profit like this, they choose to. Letting them get away with it and going "Hmm, I will just recycle myself and not pay these companies money on my own to save the planet :)" isn't the answer. We already know most of the world won't do that, and convenience does not have to necessitate waste.

No. 406965

I guess my point is large-scale changes as individuals can and will make an impact. Of course governments SHOULD be held accountable, but most government is corrupt already. You can tell everyone to go and vote and maybe they will, but unfortunately for society, what goes on behind closed doors stays behind closed doors a lot of the time. Most politicians are just pandering to what they think is the greatest common denominator, not what the actual right thing is. Thinking in economic terms and using a random product as an example: Coca Cola has 900 or so bottling factories across the world. If everyone suddenly decided they were no longer going to drink Coke as a precedent, there would no longer be demand for it and many of those factories would have to shut down. Sure, this would have an effect on local economies, but if there is no demand, there will be less supply. You can pretty much insert any product into that scenario and see the same results. I just think it’s probably more likely as a society that we see large-scale changes as individuals than expecting the government to all of a sudden start caring about doing the right thing and giving money to the right people. Because they don’t care and they probably won’t care even as the world goes down as a giant, fiery ball of garbage.

No. 407327

I for one would enjoy this type of thing too! I love seeing different points of view and perspectives

No. 407349

Pressure governments to ban unsustainable behaviour and vote with your dollar

No. 407557

File: 1557229103187.jpg (31.55 KB, 460x328, plastic.jpg)

Poor countries actually produce a huge amount of waste, because they're too poor to move onto sustainable practices like rich countries are (to an extent). Wealthy powerful people in poor countries also take money from wealthy powerful people in rich cou tries which allows them to dump waste there. Believing that everyone in poor countries lives this meagre life wrapped in pure cloth is pretty…idk. Naive? Outdated?

No. 407560

Points of view like this are patently ridiculous. North America is the third most populated land mass in the world - how are you going to get nearly half a billion people to agree on one course of sustainable action, when many just plain don't give a shit or don't even believe in half the reasons why waste is bad? There needs to be a cultural shift away from consumption, but try telling wannabe influencers on IG/YT that fast fashion doesn't actually define them as people, when it can actually end up being their career?
Everyone wants an easy way to transcend money issues, blaming the few who manage it (like Bezos) without criticising HOW he managed to get there in the first place is missing the root cause.

No. 407561

I hope you understand why a lot of these poor countries can't handle waste is because the great governments of the west export their waste to these countries for them to process it without the means or infrastructure. Then you get wankers like Jeremy Clarkson telling the Chinese to pick up after themselves and sort themselves out. Waste is a global issue and rather than pass the problem around we should all be changing.

American culture needs to be curbed imo. They've the largest carbon footprint of any other citizen on earth. I've been to your Walmarts and restaurants. Sheer wastefulness and greed

No. 407573

Let's also not forget the big international companies that go to third world countries because the environment policies are more lax, resulting in this.

No. 407714

>Poor countries actually produce a huge amount of waste, because they're too poor to move onto sustainable practices like rich countries are (to an extent). Wealthy powerful people in poor countries also take money from wealthy powerful people in rich cou tries which allows them to dump waste there.

Just C/P pretty my entire comment for you to read again, because you've literally reworded what I said and asked me if I knew this. Are you high, anon?

No. 407715

Samefag but I'm not American, either. My country - hell, my continent - doesn't appear in the top ten worst plastic producers. America needs to curb its oil and meat consumption, stat. That's the area where it is really fucking us all.

No. 407718

Good idea; I like it a lot.

Change my mind. ;o)(namefagging)

No. 407719

Honestly all I'm hearing is "why should WE limit OUR trash when all those other poors won't", and this is why you're part of the problem.
Every country should do this and not point fingers. Everyone no matter where they're from should put pressure on multinational conglomerates and their representatives in the government to stop ruining the environment and producing so much waste. Nestle isn't only a Swiss company for Swiss people to handle, and even if they wanted to (and I'm sure many do) they can't do it on their own. This is the reality. Unless we all collectively stop refusing to be fed shit, they'll still keep producing that same shit and try to trick us into eating it.

No. 407720

Cats can and will teleport, change my mind.

No. 407732

It's because no one wants to stop wanting stuff. If you look at pretty much every major corporation, they produce things no one NEEDS. Nestle is a great example of this, Amazon is another. If we all stopped eating crappy convenience junk and returned to buying clothes/furniture (that we actually needed) from local craftsmen/tailors (you get the point) as a global community then we would do a lot towards a better future. But people want to eat sugary shit and buy kawaii outfits for their DDLG blog. Humans are bullshit.

No. 407761

>be rich western country
>export a ridiculously large amount of your filth, waste and pollution to poorer countries for processing because you dont want to deal with it
>reeeee why are all these poor people polluting muh planet?!!?

again, ive had enough of people trying to blame the poor for the worlds issues. i wish people werent so naturally greedy.

No. 407768

It's almost like cheating the system, lmao.
>produce a shitload of waste and garbage
>send it all to someone else
>go "uhh i'm not really wasteful at all. the neighbors i always send my waste to are the messy ones, they need to do better because they're so wasteful. i mean…look at all their garbage. maybe it's like this because they're so poor they don't know how to be more mindful like me? idk, it's a mystery. anyway they're overpopulating the planet so they probably should die off or something #unpopularopinions #sorrynotsorry. honestly, it's not a "me" problem, it's an "everyone" problem lol"

No. 407791

It's like that documentary where Leo Decaprio flew to India to lecture Indian people on pollution and question the government about sustainability. They took him around the villages to see how people lived, then when he started asking really pointed questions the lady he was interviewing said "but you flew here on a private jet".

No. 407799

I'm really proud of France (the people, not the government). Greenpeace is really strong and a lot of people are trying very hard to reduce consumption. There is a lot of stores "en vrac" opening all over the country, people are buying bio more than pesticide-enriched vegetables and rejecting plastic, and there are a lot of cosmetics brands focusing on nature and using cardboard. It's really really inspiring to see others fighting by your side. Unfortunately water in some places is really bad and Nestlé is everywhere but I hope that changes.

I guess it is not a coincidence that it is also a place with the most protests and riots. The fact is unless you hold rich people accountable for their actions and force them to listen, nothing is going to change.

No. 407807

Yet they're still shitting in the street and leaving dead bodies in their sacred river.
The guy being rich doesn't change that.

And what about places that don't have local tailors or farms. Even places that do the costs are too much for most people to afford. It's the kind of living that is nice in theory but impossible in the majority of the world.

I've just realized the world is fucked and try not to think about it. I can't watch documentaries or read National Geographic anymore. I just hope if it keeps getting worse it goes slow enough that it won't effect me directly.

No. 407829

Lmao who said anything about local tailors or farms? Most people living in urban areas don't have any of those either. Leaving less of an impact is not an all or nothing game. Buy less shit, say no to single use products, choose less packaging and buy less fast fashion. That is all you can do on your level.

Do you think I have a farm or a tailor close to me, or money for either? No, I live in bumfuck nowhere in the Arctic Circle where no food grows. This is the only place I have and can be in. I sometimes thrift, sometimes buy fast fashion when there is no other option because I'm a student and can't afford to buy more sustainably. But I don't own a lot of anything, I use what I have, I recycle what I can, and I try to make better product and lifestyle choices.

Saying "we're fucked and there's nothing I can do so I'll just ignore it" is exactly why we're fucked. It's just laziness and unwillingness to be slightly inconvenienced. Even if we are doomed, I'd rather be doomed trying to change things for the better and having at least a small sense of purpose than not doing anything.

No. 407832

im nta but i think anon was trying to say that leo dicaprio shouldnt be lecturing poor people about pollution when his private jet trip there probably produced more pollution than that particular person he was lecturing produced the entire year.

honestly, one thing would be to get people to learn domestic tasks like sewing and cooking in higher numbers again. maybe do what they do in many countries already like start teaching children in school how to do these things, and even for adults theres the endless videos available on the internet to learn from. doing simpler and more basic mending and tailoring of clothes isnt hard with even a small amount of practice, and neither is making basic meals. im not an expert, but mending those shitty cheap fast fashion clothes will probably make them last longer than they otherwise would have, meaning less waste is produced. the food you buy doesnt even have to be fresh food straight from down the street to not be wasteful neccessarily, and also i dont think some people e.g. people living in the arctic circle have much of a choice since a lot of their food is imported.

i think people should try to rely on themselves more instead of expecting other to do things for them.

No. 407851

>Who said anything about local tailors or farms?
The person I was quoting…

And I do barely buy anything, I recycle, I compost. But I still can see that it doesn't matter to the big picture, and I'd rather try to not think about the bad things to keep my sanity.

No. 407949

Honest question, can anyone on this thread actually read English? My comment was stating WHY poor countries produce more waste, and I've had 2 anons now essentially repeat it back to me in a tone that suggests I'm berating them for it? China is a rich country, yet it still buys waste from the US, because they're greedy for more cash and don't care about the environment. It's not great of the US to exploit this, but it's not great of China either.

No. 407953

How many places don't have agriculture, anon? That's where food in shops comes from, so… If more people bought locally, it would become cheaper. The reason it's so expensive is because no one does it anymore and so it's become the refuge of the upper middle classes.

No. 408120

but the point is its not the poorer countries producing the waste, and even if those countries are buying the waste theyre still not the ones producing it.

No. 413325

'Misery Business' by Paramore is just Avril Lavigne's 'Sk8ter Boi' from the skater girl's POV.

No. 413326

also, emo/scene culture was awful and gave rise to a whole generation of cool girls, the effects of which we're still reeling from.

No. 413329

I hate that song and the only girls who liked Paramore growing up were the pick mes and not like the other girls types.

No. 413335

I agree, even Hayley Williams says she regrets the lyrics to that song and even started to skip over the "once you're a whore you're nothing more" part in concerts.

No. 413346

She's retired the song altogether
It makes me sad, I don't even like them but I wish she had instead just changed the lyrics rather than just orphaning it. It sends a better message to correct the past

No. 413374

>correct the past

No. 413394

Kek Sk8er Boi always annoyed my prissy ballet dancing ass. I wanted a cool skater bf.

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