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File: 1553887277747.jpg (193.07 KB, 1200x800, SCR_40_1200x675.0.jpg)

No. 392313

I've seen a lot of discussion in various threads about Finding Neverland and wanted to be able to discuss it in depth without derailing. What did you think of it? Do you believe them? Do you think the movie will help educate people on the subject of child sexual abuse? What do you think of the parents?

I thought it was an amazing movie, despite being really difficult to sit through. I absolutely believe the victims 100% and I think a lot of people will learn from it if they're not Jacko stand who will just dismiss every word they say. It meant a lot to me because I was abused as a child in a very similar fashion (I was 7 with a 16 year old "boyfriend" who groomed me pretty much the exact same way- minus the celebrity element obviously). I also like how they discussed how in the case of celebrity abusers, the works is already groomed in a bizarre way and that's why you have people who will never believe the allegations no matter how much evidence.

I also found the response by the people in his life very telling. I was expecting his loved ones to dismiss it as all lies, but I was not expecting anyone to have the attitude of "well, his sexual needs were his sexual needs and they were happy to be there". I'm still trying to wrap my head around that statement.

As for the parents, I have a really hard time believing that throughout this entire thing, they didn't get some inkling of a red flag. I believe they were willfully turning a blind eye for the perks that came with being close to Jacko.

No. 392314

>>392313
*the world is already groomed

No. 392316

>>392313
Thanks for making this thread anon, but the doc title is "Leaving Neverland"

No. 392335

There are tards all over the place talking about how it's all a pack of disgusting lies because both Wade and James say that they loved MJ, and are, weirdly, saying that the doc itself is promoting pedophilia. Or that the movie is making too much of a big deal about the fact that this was done to boys. Or that it wasn't factual enough. When people try to make a case against Dylan Farrow or Dr. Christine Blasey Ford by calling 'inconsistencies in their stories' into play, we are rightfully disgusted and tell pigs like that to fuck off. I don't care who these kids sued, are suing, would sue, want to sue, etc. The supposed holes in the story that would support MJ aren't even relevant half the time.

If Tarana Burke was in the audience for the Oprah interview, that's good enough for me.

I think these stans can safely die in all the fires, because the question still remains: why was a thirtysomething man sleeping with children who weren't his? Why did he continue to do it even after he was busted in the court of public opinion? Easiest answer is best answer. He was a pedophile.

If people don't understand how grooming pedophiles work; something I find hard to believe since we have a 'were you groomed as a child' thread right here on lc, maybe the stans should watch Chicken Hawk, which is a very good and very disgusting doc about how these predators think. It's always the kid's idea. The adult is, due to whatever circumstance, just a child at heart and means them no harm. MJ was doing nothing new or even particularly revolutionary when it came to fucking little boys. He was part of a long, gross tradition.

It's weird that such strides have been made w/r/t understanding the ways in which abusers get away with it, but when a celebrity enters the picture, all that knowledge flies right out the window and the asskissing starts. MJ and R. Kelly are guilty as sin. Deal with it.

More information for those who are interested - Why children who have been sexually abused will often tell and then retract their stories, appearing to have 'recall' issues:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/59ea/f55682807261d1c1b053797074953f9175ab.pdf

Mean age at time of reporting for men: 52 years of age
https://www.clinicalkey.com/#!/content/medline/2-s2.0-24669770

Characteristics of sex crimes against juveniles
http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV26_Revised%20Characteristics%20of%20Crimes%20against%20Juveniles_5-2-12.pdf

I've said a variant of this on about ten different sites now and this will likely be the last posts I make about it anywhere, lol. MJ fans need to handle the fact that their idol raped children and either dismiss it and continue to listen to the music, or say 'hey, I can't accept that.' It's pretty simple.

No. 392348

>>392316
Yeah, I keep accidentally calling it Finding Neverland and I have no idea why.

>>392335
>the question still remains: why was a thirtysomething man sleeping with children who weren't his? Why did he continue to do it even after he was busted in the court of public opinion? Easiest answer is best answer. He was a pedophile.
I can't "this" enough. He was spending such a surplus time alone behind closed doors with these kids, sleeping in the same bed with them, even after the public started asking questions. Most guys I know (and hell even some girls) avoid being alone with kids outside their family like the plague because they don't even want the possibility that people will question if something's up. Why the hell would a full grown man continue such beyond red flag behavior when people already were suspecting he was abusing them unless he truly was?

No. 392373

Thinking more critically about it now, I feel there is way too much evidence pointing toward MJ's guilt especially now with this documentary. When I was just a dumb teen and didn't know any better, I fell hook, line, and sinker for the whole tragic "he was a child himself and didn't know any better" story that was passed around by his defenders. However, the fact that he had that "art photo" book of nude boys and other questionable things always bothered me. I was naive back then though and dismissed it as part of his eccentricity, probably just coincidental and just part of his collection of random, weird shit. I reasoned that what he owned wasn't technically illegal I guess and maybe the people who accused him just wanted money. I was around people who loved the shit out of his music and were convinced he was innocent which didn't help in being able to have clear judgment of the whole thing.

The documentary definitely did a good job in being able to make sense of all of MJ's eccentricities and highlighting how sinister the whole was. I definitely believe the victims. It all just makes too much sense.

No. 392381

MJ fans like to spread lies and say that there was no evidence against him.
Check out these links, especially the "Michael Jackson's Boys" documentary, it was always obvious what he was doing: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/b01mq3/megathread_the_case_against_michael_jackson/

No. 392478

Is there someplace online where I can actually watch this?

No. 392495

>>392478
Any torrent site will have it

No. 392500

>>392478
The whole thing used to be on Youtube but I think it was taken down recently. When I went looking for it all I could find were people trying to discredit the victims with videos like "evidence of multiple interview takes" and "Safechuck and Robson vs. REAL abuse victims" which is pretty depressing. Imagine trying to actively discredit rape survivors just because you like some dead pedo's music.

No. 392580

>>392500
It's amazing to me how people will stan this hard for someone just because they like his media content. I get the denial if it's someone you're really close to and genuinely can't see doing something like that, but for some person you don't know at all just because you like their music? Disgusting.

Honestly, I still listen to Jacko and enjoy his music. Yeah, I think he's a terrible person, but I can still enjoy the art he made. I learned a long time ago to separate the person from their art for this very reason. Just because someone's talented doesn't mean they can't be a monster.

No. 392604


No. 392605

>>392604
Going to listen while epilating. Will let you ladies know what is said

No. 392619

Seeing how many men and women are willing to defend MJ has really changed my view on people
even women I know who had their #MeToo stories were defending Micheal
Its so bizarre

No. 392622

>>392605
Thanks anon, much appreciated!

No. 392629

>>392619
Some people don't want their image of Michael as this flawless savior to be ruined. They tend to forget that he's actually a human being.

No. 392635

File: 1553926744756.jpg (813.34 KB, 1407x1907, Harvey_Weinstein.jpg)

>>392629
>>392313
I wanna bring up Harvey Weinstein
I don't know a single person who defended him even the misogynistic,sexist and most religiously fundamentalist people in my family did not defend Harvey Weinstein
because to me Weinstein is a "Perfect Abuser"
Hell most people didn't even who was Weinstein before the scandal

No. 392637

>>392635
Harvey has nothing to do with MJ or Leaving Neverland?

No. 392638

>>392635
Nobody defended Weinstein because he wasn't some figure that deeply resonated with the public. He was just an ugly-looking fucker with no charisma. Michael posed himself as this idealistic figure for world peace, racial equality, environmentalism, and the protection of children. The reverence his fans have for him is basically on the level of religious fanatics' toward their figures of worship.

No. 392648

>>392622
you're welcome anon! just checking in to say i'm 1 hour 38 minutes in and absolutely nothing has been said that is of any value. both of these men are delusional and obviously have a vested interest in believing jackson wasn't a pedo. they have, really, nothing to cling to. they just keep saying "the media lies" but giving like 0 proof of the totally real bombshells of truth they supposedly have. everything they end up dropping doesn't disprove anything.

it's really fucking sad to see like men in their mid 30s or whatever so hellbent on believing this nutjob, who had countless copies of child nudie 'artbooks' and similarly weird shit, wasn't a huge pedo

No. 392866

File: 1553969056378.png (313.81 KB, 327x412, boy-scout.png)

Mj owned a boy scout statue/doll, complete with tiny shorts. How the fuck is this excusable?

No. 392896

I hate h3h3, but they have a really good video defending the victims and make the really good point that Jacko was only hanging out with cute boys. There were never any ugly kids, fat kids or girls. If it was just a simple matter of loving kids but just not having sensible boundaries then why was there a specific physical type?

No. 392901

>>392896
Someone claimed that Jacko was often seen with little girls as well and I SO wanted to post the letter this one girl wrote to one of Jackson's victims complaining that she can never be one of them… Does anyone know what I am talking about? It was included in one of the masterposts, but I can't find it.

No. 392905

>>392866
Looks like he owned two statues, since the boy depicted is holds hands with another. Unless it counts as one big statue idk still bad

No. 392912

File: 1553973661545.jpeg (35.71 KB, 650x485, life-sized-dolls-of-children-a…)

>>392905
Yes here is the other. Guess it's supposed to be a girl? Weird how she's clothed and he's in a teeny tiny boy scout costume

No. 392913

File: 1553973690671.jpg (186.04 KB, 634x951, 35BB9C4C00000578-3662838-image…)

Here's another one of his boy dolls. Odd.

No. 392928

File: 1553975627089.jpg (32.37 KB, 300x400, 010_jackson_painting-300x400.j…)

>>392913

wtf the doll looks like safechuck and spence so creepy

pic related is one of michaels paintings

No. 392957

>>392928
This is lowkey hillarious at least, unlike everything else.

All these dolls are white, I don't know much about MJ but does anyone know if he hung out with any poc children at all? I know about Lenon but he was fairly white passing.

No. 392972

>>392957
emmanuel lewis, but i dont know that he molested him. he was also just creepy and used people that were famous, like lisa marie or elizabeth taylor, so who knows with that.

jordan chandler, brett barnes, and gavin arvizo looked kind of hispanic, so he may have been into sort of ethnic hispanic looking kids, but afaik, no real black kids around or anything

No. 392983

>>392913
i feel like he was probably jerking off on these statues/mannequins.
it's really odd

>>392928
king of the pedos

even the name neverland, where you "never grow up" reminds me of the current male narrative that 12 years olds are at peak fertility and 30+ (or even 25+) have hit "the wall"

reminds me of the pedobait lyrics in martinez songs too…
>"Kids forever, kids forever
>Baby soft skin turns into leather"

pedophilia is probably one of the "perks" of the elite which, like all men and their perversions, jackson based his whole life around and did it in plain sight

No. 393000

>>392983
they are posable, so that's really suspicious. it's one thing if they're just regular statues, but that they're more like ball jointed dolls really is terrible

No. 393060

So I guess, the Dr. that "accidentally" killed him did the world a favor?

No. 393095

>>392348

Finding Neverland is a movie about J.M. Barrie from 2004.

No. 393126

I watched it a few days after it came out and can we just talk about the moms for a second? I get that being manipulated is one thing but both of the mother's talk about how they 'd get worried and then MJ would find a way to rationalize what he was doing. Aren't both Robson and Safechuck also not on good terms with their mothers because of how long they ignored the signs or trusted Michael over her own intuition?

In both cases, the mothers maintain a relationship with MJ despite the painfully obvious creepiness about him. The sleeping in the same bed thing, spending a suspicious amount of time alone with their sons, the relentless faxing back and forth, every time the moms had a suspicion it was always quelled by someone telling them not to worry. I know its hard to prove that anything is going on especially when the victims are still loyal to their abuser but I just feel really conflicted about how I should feel about the mothers, are they just bad parents? Were they just that well manipulated? I don't know how to feel about it

No. 393129

>>393126
My brother was molested for years by my Uncle and my mother knew about it didn't tell anyone becasue she was afraid my father would kill her her brother(my uncle)
That was her actual reasoning behind it(I just don't understand human beings at times)

No. 393141

>>392478
Amazon HBO has a free trial for 7-days, just make sure you cancel after a week or you'll get charged.

No. 393226

>>393126
Bad parenting is definitely in the mix. Willful ignorance/being starstruck probably also plays a part, but at the end of the day, no responsible parent would let their kid spend that much time with a strange adult alone. As soon as I heard one of them was a stage mom and putting her kid in commercials I knew she was going to be a suss ass bitch.

No. 393231

>>393126
MJ very clearly picked his victims carefully. A boy from a well-functioning family with a protective mom would not be a good choice. He needed the parents to be easily impressed and easily gotten rid off. And there are sadly a lot of shitty parents out there.

No. 393233

>>393126
>>393226

Yeah both the mothers in the documentary left a really bad taste in my mouth, especially when they talked about all the gifts mj gave them. One of them even mentioned that he gave them a house near the trial iirc and she insisted in the documentary that it wasn't a bribe, just bad timing. Whether they knew that sexual abuse was going on is up to debate but they clearly chose to look the other way because of the gifts/benefits.

No. 393347

>>393126
I'm honestly more mad at the parents than Michael Jackson tbh. Predators gonna prey, but parents are supposed to be protecting their children and it's so clear these people chose to turn a blind eye, despite it being so overwhelmingly obvious what was happening. all because they wanted the lifestyle they were getting in return for essentially whoring off their kids. Michael Jackson is a sick pedophile, but the idea of a parent letting this happen is even more upsetting to me than the crime itself.

No. 393351

>>393347
Agreed, people pimping out their kids makes me angry…and it's surprisingly common. Putting money over the future mental and physical health of your child (when they already have enough money) is insane. These parents just handed them over. I wonder if anything similar is happening now with a big celebrity who "loves kids"

No. 393465

>>393347
Yeah watching the documentary I just got madder and madder at the parents. You let your kid sleep in the same bed with a 30-year old man, he's placing your hotel rooms further and further away from his and your son's and your only thought is "gee, that's weird"? These obsessive stage parents fucking knew what was happening, they pimped their children out in exchange for a luxury lifestyle.

I don't think anyone born after 1985 fully realizes what sort of a fucking worldwide GOD Michael Jackson was during his prime, I can fully accept that these naive kids felt absolutely privileged to "make him happy" as they put it in the documentary. And that's why their parents should've stepped in and put a stop to it. They didn't. And because of that their children are forever scarred. Over some money. God damn.

No. 395493

Jackson really just stole Fosse's snake act down to little boys.

No. 395512

>>395493
Wow he even took the outfit. I knew he copied a lot from cab calloway but I wasn't aware of how much he took from Fosse

No. 395630

File: 1554561187382.jpeg (17.58 KB, 338x450, 4EF82671-0DA0-4B07-B90D-6B5779…)

>>395493
>>395512
Michael had many many influences in regards to dancing. Even the moonwalk (which before MJ was called backslide) you can see videos of people doing it back into the 1920s

Also spats and cropped pants combo was not originated by Bob Fosse lol. It’s been done many times throughout the years. Pic attached is Fred Astaire who MJ many times credited as one of his biggest inspirations. Sammy Davis jr, James Brown, etc…

He drew moves from many dancers and they were in turn inspired by those that came before them. That’s not “stealing”.

No. 397237

So is no one going to talk about all the evidence that has surfaced that proves Safechuck and Robson are as credible as a sack of potatoes?? I feel bad cause I actually believed them

No. 397240

>>397237
Where does this "evidence" come from? After how much the Jacksons and their fans have lied I'm skeptical about everything they say now.

No. 397242

>>397237
Do you mean that tiny nitpicky detail about one of the things in Jackson's theme park not being built in the exact year one of them said it was? Because all that proves is that adults aren't great at remembering the exact dates of trivial details.

No. 397245

>>397242
Especially minor details that are decades-old at this point..

No. 397250

Dunno girls, cant say anything for sure tbh I watched some videos and read the fbi documents and Michael was weird af probably a pedophile I dunno but this guys seem so sketchy and their stories change all the time. I cant ( emphasis in this is my opinion) attribute all that to just bad memory. Dont know what to think anymore, the evidence doesnt seem fabricated. Im not an mj fan honestly and I never understood people who blindly follow him and seem in love with him. But I also dont hate his ass or csnt claim he is a pedophile cause there isnt any hard evidence that backs it up, and these guys aint helping

No. 397302

>>397250
safechuck talks about the 1989 grammys in new york where michael performed. this guy totally DEBUNKS!!! him by saying the 1989 grammys were in LA, and michael didn't perform at the 1989 grammys (which were in LA). HOWEVER, michael performed at the 1988 grammys, which were held in new york. all of the "DEBUNKED!!" claims are literally just minor chronological mistakes and acting like they're completely off base when they're off by like a year or something.

No. 397595

Excuse my blogpost but I really needed to get it off my chest.
I've overheard coworkers talking about how Michael Jackson 'was literally a kid stuck in an adult's body', how he wanted to buy all the toys at a store, how he treated the boys as his age equal because he thought he was a kid…. and for that reason, was not a pedo for sure. They spoke about him like he was an just an autistic asexual manchild and
I just wanted to scream! I have small experience with a pedo and read a lot about how those fuckers work. I can't believe that people can be so unaware! Literally every pedo claims that he has a childlike soul, enjoys childish activities (or pretends to, to lure victims)… How can you be so blind? I myself collect toys, but that does not change the fact that I am an adult person and I can't imagine anyone claiming otherwise. 'Normies' (excuse me for using that word) can be so clueless sometimes…
I was so angry at people for believing the pedo propaganda that I almost said something, but I knew that we would just fight and I would not be able to make them see the light.

No. 397598

>>397302
mistakes like that actually make me believe safechuck more. if i was going to lie about something like that i'd need to look the details up, so it's way less likely i'd make a mistake.

No. 397669

https://www.popdust.com/finding-neverland-pulled-popdust-opinion-2634235057.html

I'm a firm believer that if there's serious holes in your accusations against someone, they should be taken seriously, but this is ridiculous. The evidence against Michael Jackson is overwhelming, yet 2 years off on a detail from 25 years ago and suddenly the whole thing is thrown out the window and dismissed as a lie?

No. 397672

>>397595
I feel you, anon. The idea that his "child trapped in an adult's body" mentality and being a pedophile are mutually exclusive is fucking enraging. If anything, it should be more of a red flag. Your typical pedophile doesn't see themselves as harming children. They see it as ~a special relationship society doesn't understand~. The fact he sees himself as "a child at heart" and thinks if kids as his peers just makes it more plausible he was molesting them.

No. 397673

>>397669
This is ridiculous. I wish, though, that the documentary wasn't just them speaking and that they spoke to cooks, maids, grounds keepers, etc. Absolutely insane though that they're pulling the documentary and Oprah pulled her interviews all bc of one minor mistake.

No. 397674

>>397595
>>397672
Exactly, literally all pedos "love" children. Literally all of them claim to love them and claim that they don't hurt children. Ffs, Jackson was saying "the most loving thing is sleeping in bed with a child". This is word for word what pedos say. And the nudist mags and the photos of naked boys? Experts in dealing with pedos say these are the exact things they own. There's no excuse. Whether or not he molested those boys is irrelevant tbh. He was obviously a pedo

No. 397681

>>397674
>Whether or not he molested those boys is irrelevant tbh. He was obviously a pedo
This. I can't understand for the life of me how anyone can deny he was obviously a pedophile even if they don't believe the victims.

No. 397691

File: 1555023390920.png (1.07 MB, 2100x1500, fuckingloser.png)

apologies for the shitty layout but I just cant believe this I used to admire david theres no reason for him to use his influence like this what a delusional creep

No. 397692

>>397691
his photography sucks and it borders on literal digital painting. he is delusional.

No. 397701

I can't understand WHY ppl can't see why it was problematic, even if there was zero sexual abuse imagine being a kid and getting replaced and put aside by your biggest idol who conveniently isolated you from your family.. and supposedly coming from a guy that 'loved children' FUCK OFF. If you like his music that's ok but imagine being a fan of a mentally ill person, I could never.

No. 397704

If he really just "loved children" then why was he focusing on all these boys instead of his own kids? Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was he was barely involved with them at all?

No. 397784

Michael Jackson dindu nuffin!

No. 397787

>>397701
my older sister is lesbian woman she is also a devout catholic
she supports the catholic church despite all the shit they did to women and the sexual abuse they did to children
its impossible to change her mind
people will defend their views even when when they are wrong

No. 397790

>but when a celebrity enters the picture, all that knowledge flies right out the window and the asskissing starts

It's difficult to approach sexual abuse when celebrity anything comes into play, simply because it's too easy (and way more common than it should be) to get famous and destroy someone else's career in one fell swoop by crying rape. Although it does not excuse it in any way, I can see why it tends to go unpunished

No. 397791

>>397790
Meant to quote >>392335

No. 398147

>>397787
Tell your sister she’s going to hell for her sinful ways (homosexuality)!!! And for defending pedos!

Nah jk, but tell her that she won’t get into the pearly gates if she doesn’t leave her lesbianism behind.

No. 398442

I see the Finding neverland documentary was pulled from HBO and Oprah deleted those interview of the "victims"

Seems like this was all a sham.

No. 398444

>>398442

HBO responds to claim Leaving Neverland has been pulled from its network

And reveals that the film was its "second most watched documentary".

12/04/2019

Dan Reed's hard-hitting and controversial documentary film Leaving Neverland has not been pulled from HBO, the US network has confirmed.

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a27124618/leaving-neverland-hbo-documentary-pulled-denied/

Oprah Defends Her Choice to Interview Accusers in Michael Jackson Doc Leaving Neverland
"It was important enough to me to take the hateration."

Apr 11, 2019

https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/a27111771/oprah-michael-jackson-leaving-neverland-trevor-noah/

No. 398447

Can we discuss Michael's creepy ass voice for a second? If you look at any pedo caricature, even before Michael was thought to abuse kids, pedos were always seen as putting on a "soft" or high voice.

Literally how many boxes could Jackson tick as a stereotypical pedo without everyone seeing he's obviously a pedo? Every thread on reddit is like "He was so messed up by his dad. Poor guy. He really was a child inside.". Ffs

No. 398476

>>398147
God isn't against Homosexuality he's against sodomy
That's her logic and defence

No. 404505

File: 1556581280709.jpg (21.86 KB, 450x253, os-1554823880-ppm7n4qjyh-snap-…)

Aaron Carter's intense defending of MJ is very odd to me after watching the Lou Pearlman doc and finding that he acted the same way. He vehemently denied the idea that Pearlman could have been a predator in a strangely childish way. I think, among his drug and ED problems, Carter has been sexually abused by both these people but can't come to terms with it. His denial is so much stronger than anyone else's, even in the face of so many accusations, that it feels like he's trying to protect his psyche.

No. 404888

>>398447
when you hear his real voice it's super fucking weird. why did he talk in that breathy whisper?



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