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No. 279777
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No. 279907
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Thank god for this thread, I need to blow off some steam.
>>279828This is mostly my experience with the show as well, it was way too immature, boring and the characters weren't interesting at all. It looked overall ugly. My friends like it though and I keep hearing about the drama involved with the community and it just blows my mind how bonkers it is. The "Shipping a 26-year old and a 21-year old is pedophilia and incest despite them not being blood related or family at all" discourse alone makes my head spin but the overall stupidity of the fans just straight out assassinating the staff over some mediocre cartoon show is ridiculous.
Regarding the latest drama I almost gave the show credit for making one of the main characters gay but the writers wimped out and passed it as another case of the notorious Dumbledore syndrome. Meaning that you wouldn't know that the character was gay without seeing the staff tweets and only including some ex-spouse in a 2-minute flashback following a briefly mentioned off-screen death. It was just another marketing gimmick to market the show to make everyone hop in for the new season.
Pic related, it's back when Keith x Lance stans were going psycho on the staff once again.
No. 280196
>>280174>>279907I agree with all of this, The dumbledoor syndrome is one if the more annoying things because just like with HP, theres these writers who keep feeding these fans on their personal twitters wtf ever they want to hear then are surprised when their fans are rabid (You set this shit up, dont be surprised when it collapses on you its fucking twitter the social media herpes)
It's unprofessional as all hell and makes them look as goofy as their fans. Queerbaiting is grating, like why even bother trying to break barries when all you're doing is walking on the edge.
It would be nice for the kids these days to get something a kin to a shounen with some resemblance of a lgb character without it just being a quick write in that literally has no relevance to the show and is just
alluded to.
In the case of voltron though it is written with as much talent as RWBY, I really do miss stuff like Totally Spies.
They were literally modeled as stereotypes yet still came through way more humane and relatable than ANY of the snowflakes and "relatable" characters in this new wave of western 'anime'. Yet people don't even want to see it because these rose colored glasses and focus on the visual over contents makes their eyes blur.
No. 280253
>>280196>It's unprofessional as all hell and makes them look as goofy as their fans.Absolutely. The staff really should step away from social media, we've entered an age where makers of a show are in direct contact with the viewers and they're exposed to pressure placed upon them. So they cave in and start pandering to please the fans bombing their notifications. But from the other direction they get demands from the producers who would never let them put a gay character in a kids' show that airs in multiple countries and makes them a ton of money. So this kind of fence sitting ends up being a farce that pleases no one. The homophobic demographic is angry that the show is "forcing an agenda" and the people looking for LGB rep are pissed that they didn't push the envelope far enough. And the kids who are supposedly receiving a subtle lesson about tolerance are completely oblivious and think they're just "good friends" from the vague, frigid discussion these two characters had for 1,5 minutes.
Totally Spies was the tits though, but it was a French show and they've been weebs for literally centuries. Americans are treating anime just as an aesthetic and think that the style alone is enough to make a show good while the writing is still the cliched generic boring adventure cartoon garbage that sounds more like a fanfic than a legitimate show.
No. 280328
>>280253I feel like the only time American anime got it “right” is with Avatar the Last Air Binder (not Korra though, fuck that boring ass show)
It is like what you guys have said, direct involvement between creators and fans can really jinx the show for years to come.
No. 280454
>>280196I agree, they just shouldn't say anything. the more they say, the more it's twisted and turned into something alarmist for the hysterical side of the fandom.
but this is absolutely not queerbait..
shiro is confirmed lgbt. The scene was subtle, but they fought the execs at dreamworks hard to get it.
There are a lot of hoops to jump through, which is unfortunate but it's the reality.
That said, the fandom is still a trashfire and a lot of it's caused by very young fans that think they're being activists when really they're being entitled, spoiled assholes.
No. 280476
>>280456Oh for sure he was overhyped which was 100% the fault of the marketing team pandering to the young teenage girls who watch the show.
But I mean, the writers admitted they knew about the “bury your gays” trope but decided to do it anyway. Of course the fandom was going to react badly to that.
The way I personally see it, representation exists to improve the mindset around homosexuals by showcasing positive examples. It really doesn’t do much good in this case because if any gay kids, or kids at all, saw this season there’s no way they’d pick up on Shiro being gay. And on the off chance they do, all they’d see is death and suffering. So it just doesn’t really benefit the lgbt youth if that makes sense ?
Obviously he was confirmed at comic con, but IMHO representation needs to exist within the perimeters of the show for the showrunners to be deserving of the praise that was heaped on them.
I honestly hate Keith x lance and have no opinion on shiro x Keith, but I do think that having 4/4 gay characters die at some point (one resurrected) while also presenting multiple heterosexual relationships is going to come off as iffy.
No. 280479
>>280476Agreed to all of this, the fanbase is stupid but the writers brought this on themselves. You can't give the gay characters a 100% mortality rate and not expect outcry. The resurrected gay also sports a number of other unfortunate negative gay tropes like having no family and a terminable illness. Shiro is a great character in a lot of ways and he's probably the best written of the cast but he is a poor representation of a homosexual character who is
happy. Individually I don't think any of these decisions was all that bad but all together it shapes up badly. Jokes about 'Gay Genocide' and 'Space Aids' didn't come out of nowhere.
The terribleness of the fandom is otherwise worsened by fans and creators having direct access to each other. And lastly Netflix should shoulder some blame for editing title cards to make the show look more romantic than it was and featuring that one dead-gay prominently to make it seem like he'd play a large part. The creators don't design the title cards, that is all Netflix.
Petitioning for a fandom general, Voltron is just part of a landscape of shitty fan behavior.
No. 280482
>>280479I just hate that I have to admit to agreeing with klancers, who are literally delusional (although when it boils down to it, Voltron is a kids show with a very young fanbase and impulsive emotional reactions are not unexpected, though the death threats are inexcusable)
My perspective is that I don’t think the show runners meant any harm. For lack of better phrase, they were just fucking stupid. Had they let Shiro have a side relationship with his literally who ex, they could’ve freed up all the other paladins for safe heterosexual relationships and still gotten heaps of progressive brownie points. Barring that, if they had just NOT had him killed and picked literally any other useless side character, they could have crushed Klance and left something for the fangirls to headcanon over.
Literally all they had to do to eliminate 80 percent of this backlash is to just not fridge the gay paladins ex. That was their dumbass decision to make so I don’t feel that bad for them.
No. 280484
>>280482I would have simply married the character off, shown him with a wedding ring and left it at that. Good excuse to not continue the relationship.
They could have also not made the two dead generals lesbians. They aren't real characters, their role to play is more like props. Why make them lesbians?
No. 280486
>>280482jds already said as much in his apology. but adam died because he was a familiar face the audience could feel sad for and help portray the loss & stakes in the war they're in (without having to kill a main character off). if they just killed some random bg character no one would've given a fuck.
I think their mistake was hoping the fanbase would be mature enough to realise the reason he was killed wasn't because he was gay, but because to illustrate a tragic casualty of war.
if they kept adam alive, they would've had to either delve into their relationship again (forced back together), or give them minimal interaction "(why not more screen time!?!?!"
>>280484if they did that people would've just complained they never showed his new SO or that they didn't show enough of them and just pushed them into the background or something.
they've made mistakes for sure but people would have complained no matter what they did.
This is an action adventure cartoon first and foremost. not a romance.
No. 280488
>>280454I follow a few fandom type people and don't bother finding out what they're talking about, turns out ALL the sperging was about this Voltron thing. One of them blocked me for making the world's mildest comment (not about the show) so they are definitely snowflakes. Would not want to be someone working on this show and getting hassled by these people on the daily.
I wish being in toxic fandoms was not so widely accepted and encouraged, it's like flypaper for the mentally ill
No. 280493
>>280489well the series isn't over, so that's why I think the outcries about "shiro not getting a happy ending" and the paladins not suffering loss is moot until then.
(it's like, you don't fuckin know, do you? He hasn't HAD an ending yet.)
my tinfoil is that veronica will bite the dust. and possibly keith if they're that ballsy. (or they'll do a classic death scare so they don't have to). No. 280494
>>280486Then they fucked up, since Adam was so entirely unimportant that the only reason his death has any weight is because of the outrage.
Why not kill James or Iverson? Why not just leave the flashback and have him not show up at all? Yeah, obviously the fandom was going to bitch either way. But they managed to show Shay/Hunk, Allura/Lance, Matt/Nameless Female, and, depending on your perspective, Keith/Axca (I’m waiting till s8 to make a judgment on that). Contrast the three dead homosexuals against all three straight couples, of course it’s going to come off as tone deaf.
I honestly could care less about Adam since he’s a non character who exists just to be Shiro’s bitchy , ambiguous ex and die. But the showrunners went on and on patting themselves on the back for their oh so revolutionary rep just to have basically the same level of positive impact as Dumbledore back in 2007. I think shit like Steven Universe and Legend of Korra really didn’t help their case either.
Also, to be frank, I think they’re just mediocre writers writing a mediocre kids show and being hilariously unaware that without their idiot 13 year old fujo fanbase the show would have gone mostly under the radar. The toys don’t sell, it isn’t wildly popular with kids, and mecha fans aren’t into goofy rainbow lions. It’s a very damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.
No. 280495
>>280493I like your predictions anon, I got a good feeling about them.
I'm hoping Shiro does end with something nice.
No. 280497
>>280479>space aidsI let out an ugly snort
>>280482 >My perspective is that I don’t think the show runners meant any harm. I don't think anyone here has claimed otherwise. I doubt anyone thinks that they had malicious intents, they just didn't think it through and didn't realize what an overused trope they were going to push, a gay man with a dead husband, no family and no romantic interests besides the dead husband from forever ago because he's supposedly still in love with that corpse. People who claim "b-but he's still confirmed gay and thus LGB representation!" probably just don't realize what all the hubbub is actually about.
>>280484>I would have simply married the character off, shown him with a wedding ring and left it at that. This would've actually been a really good solution without being a copout.
>They could have also not made the two dead generals lesbians. Wait they did this too??
No. 280499
>>280494obviously I agree he was simply there to flesh out shiro's backstory, but I don't agree that he was bitchy, and I think a lot of the fandom was unfair in their interpretation of him. Even though their scene was brief, there was enough to know they'd been together for a while and had been through a lot (and probably similar scenarios before with shiro's health having adverse effects on him). is it shitty to feel like you're holding the person you love back from doing what they love and have wanted to do their entire life? yes. does it hurt to watch the person you love strain against the limitations of their body and worry about them constantly? also yes. perhaps he'd reached his limit and thought the ultimatum would force him to re-evaluate the situation in some backwards way.
although I agree… they didn't need that many convoluted het pairings. I actually think allura/lance would have been more powerful if they had just come to have a mutual respect for each other in a way that just inspired each other to be better people without having to get together.
>>280495god I hope so too. I think I read in an interview they said shiro will have a satisfying ending, so that's why I'm a little on the fence about an explicit keith death. He's pretty much all he has now, it'd be way too tragic if he died as well.
but I still think they're gonna do some fucked shit to keith. They need to revisit this whole quintessence thing. Haggar's probably still alive somewhere. and he's been self-sacrificing in the past. I'm nervous lol No. 280500
>>280497Yeah, the voice actor for Pidge outed them by gushing about how she loved her homocidal lesbians!! And then proceeded to ignore everyone pointing out that dead, evil gays were not exactly the best rep either.
I feel for Bex because she’s always getting attacked by idiot klancers, but she also runs headfirst into the steaming pile of shit at every opportunity she gets and wonders why she comes out covered in it.
>>280499I think he could have really worked in the show’s favor. Two people of color in a gay relationship? The show runners would be getting rimjobs from tumblr/sjw media until the end of time.
They also went on and on about how Shiro was the one in the wrong for leaving this oh so wonderful, loving guy behind, which was confusing. I just think they figured as long as they paid lip service in interviews that the viewers would look past the fact that they killed him off for more lazy “character development “ for Shiro, when he’s already suffered enough in the narrative that it just became exhausting.
It’s not like the klance idiots are the only ones who thought killing him off was fucking dumb—the only people who keep defending it are Sheith shippers who didn’t want to have their ship cucked by Adam (which is why it’ll be hilarious if their ship ends up being tanked by another character with a four letter name that starts with an A) and the rare non shipper fan that just doesn’t care about whether the rep was good.
No. 280501
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>>280497Yes, the two remaining of Lotor's Generals, Ezor and Zethrid, are lesbians. They had a cute little scene right before threatening to torture one of the good characters, and in the ensuing fight are killed in an explosion that should have killed the other characters as well. Those other characters (Keith and Acxa) did not die, for they were protected by their heterosexuality.
Counting Shiro (rezzing aside), the show has a 100% mortality rate for homosexuals.
No. 280511
>>280501yeah the zethrid/ezor thing felt very shoe-horned. and they shouldn't have bothered if they'd planned for them to die.
although I don't think there's anything wrong with villains being lgbt. they're not evil because they're gay.
these weird correlations need to die already.
they have more complex personalities and motivations besides who they prefer to fuck.
>when he’s already suffered enough in the narrative that it just became exhausting. Shiro is arguably the most central and important character to the plot and the one that binds it all together. so no shit he's going to have a bad time.
>Two people of color in a gay relationship?> the only people who keep defending it are Sheith shippers who didn’t want to have their ship cucked by Adamyou do realise keith is also a poc? I guess it doesn't count because he's not brown lol.
No. 280513
>>280511meant to reply to
>>280500 for that last part.
No. 280518
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>>280511Keith is half alien and evidently, half white Texan (nothing suggests his father is nonwhite)
I’m not counting purple aliens as people of color in the same context, though you can choose to disagree.
Regardless, Sheith is all but confirmed not happening/ non canon regardless of Axca. Sheith cannot, for the sake of the argument, count as representation. (Assuming it does become canon in s8, I will admit my mistake.)
No. 280519
>>280511It’s not so much that gays should be immune, but can you see how 100 percent mortality rate for the four homosexuals in a show with a predominately heterosexual cast is probably not the best choice? Particularly when the writers gave interviews about how proud they were? They did mention that Shiro was only brought back to sell toys.
I think they meant well, but also think their idea of representation was useless for the audience it needed to exist for.
No. 280529
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>>280519the toys were hideous, we are lucky he got brought back
They shouldn't have done press releases or anything about him being gay so it could be a surprise. It might have helped the blow back.
No. 280531
>>280518oh, no I wasn't trying to equate the alien part with it. And you're right, he could be half white (I keep forgetting his last name being 'kogane' is just a fandom accepted thing and not really official), although it's not out of the realm of possibility that his father is asian.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come in here so salty. Just when I see some of the heinous shit people say and do to the showrunners and VAs it really does disgust me. The VAs love the show just as much as the fans and want to interact because of it, but I think people forget they're just normal-ass people and think they actually have a say over what happens in the plot, when they don't, and attack them when it doesn't go their way.
Regardless, I still think people would have behaved this way no matter what they did.
>>280529hasn't he suffered enough
No. 280534
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>>280530I think there are stylistic elements that while subtle, end up being appealing to Western audiences. Namely the characters aren't designed as neotenous as they are in many other anime. The voice acting doesn't have the same quirks as often seen in a lot of anime, the (animated) acting and facial expressions often crib more from Western cartooning traditions though there are some anime-style gags. There isn't weird fan service so you don't feel embarrassed having it on the television. It is by no means a perfect show, but I think it demonstrates there is a taste for animated content that doesn't have the eccentricities common to a lot of anime. It would probably take more effort than this shitpost to tease out what those differences are but IMO the show only superficially looks like anime and is otherwise very Western in execution and tone.
Besides that Shiro is cute and has cheekbones and a jawline. A lot of my favorite male anime characters still kinda end up looking like girls just because of face design.
No. 280598
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>>280534Shiro is cute! Too bad he’ll probably end the series alone since they torched his ex. I suppose he could show up in the last episode with another literally who.
>>280531I feel bad for the staff because they’ve honestly gotten so much shit from the fandom since like, season 4-5 so I can’t blame them for just being over and done with them all. But they were aware enough of their audience to market the shit out of Adam and use that whole scene to drum up more excitement for the show than it’s ever seen, so they’re not entirely naive.
And then they genuinely do not understand why their audience of very young people, every one of them identifying as gay (of course), didn’t react well to the death.
That and torching their juggernaut ship? Fine but don’t act stupid and go “why are all these 12 year olds jumping me on twitter DDD: we outed Shiro so why aren’t you guys ignoring our psycho lesbians and dead gays? Rebresenation!!”
No. 280669
>>280328I never understood how could makers of Avatar The Last Airbender fuck up so much with Korra, and now Voltron?
ATLA actually had merit in both plot and characters. Korra and Voltron are worse than a fanfiction, as if they hired 12 year old writers from Tumblr.
No. 280806
>>280737The /co/ threads are mostly infighting too, interspersed with whatever gross fujo rape fantasy they’ve come up with that week.
Just throw the whole show away
No. 280869
>>280803right? even the 4chan austists think the sheith is obvious.
>>280669I don't remember his name, but I think there was some guy who was really the mastermind behind the world of ATLA and all the rules/how it works etc, that really made the world feel plausible and cohesive imo.
No. 280875
>>280869It’s not just the unique world and system of the show, but the depth of the characters and the unique dynamics between them. Nothing felt forced or out of the ordinary. I really believe they lucked out with ATLA because they didn’t interact with fans on social media AT ALL. No fans input impactd the show = cohesive writing and planned plot. While also caring to write what is suitable for the story and characters, not to please the fans.
I feel like the writers should not pander to what the fans want and focus on their original intent, execute the story with care
No. 280878
>>280856I think that’s actually pretty accurate. ATLA was pretty solid whereas LOK was all over the place. Seasons 1 of LOK was good. Season 3 was great. And seasons 2 & 4 we’re dog shit (and the lesbian ending was godawful writing but I digress).
>>280196I’ll give the Dumbledore thing the benifit of the doubt. If it happened now, it would’ve been an asspull but in 2007, having a prominent gay character, let alone a wise
mentor, in a children’s series, was unheard of. I actually think it was progressive of Rowling to do so but I’ll admit the action hasn’t aged well. And of course, I know that she panders to SJWs (Like the “Hermione could be black” thing).
No. 281027
>>280878>but in 2007, having a prominent gay character let alone a wise mentor, in a children’s series, was unheard ofNo it wouldn't. People reacted the exact same to it in 2007 as people reacted to Shiro in 2018, it's not like 2007 was the puritan stone age. Gays were already well-established in society at that point. They felt JK was trying to please the audience with a cheap shot of "yeah he was gay didn't I ever tell you" AFTER the series was over and AFTER the books had no implications of his homosexuality BECAUSE she didn't really think he was and she would've never had the balls/motivation to write a gay character (She still doesn't even 10 years after). Fucking Simpsons had multiple gay characters at that point and while it's not a kids' show a lot of children and young teens still watched it. Fucking Mrs. Doubtfire had on-screen gay characters in 1994 and that was a movie directed at kids.
>>280962>I think it is hilarious the writers accidentally wrote a friendship as being believably romantic while the actual romances are super underdeveloped and boring to watch.That's because with M/F relationships all it takes is for them to be of opposite genders and boom, there's your romance with minimal effort. Why bother doing anything else when it's going to "work" anyway just because they're straight? People are going to fill in the gaps themselves. With relationships of the same gender you can explore their feelings and dynamics deeper because people (other than shippers) aren't going to expect a shallow romantic endgame. You're all familiar with the "guys and girls can't be just friends" meme? It's basically that.
No. 281207
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>>280669Is Korra that bad? I wanted to watch it…
No. 281240
>>281027Honestly can’t agree more.
“Word of God” gay was limp dick “representation” in 2007, but it’s even more limp dicked now that too many kids shows have grown the balls to show it on screen. They may have meant well, but with how shitty the storylines are for every confirmed homo on the show, there’s really nothing a gay child viewer could benefit from. They played themselves.
I do think half the staff are sheithfaggots though, so they should have either had the nut to go that route or at least let shiro get back with whatshisface for brownie points.
No. 281245
>>281223I wish they made korra have to relearn all her bending after season 1, it would have been a good humbling experience for her
And i never even got the vibes asami was her friend let alone lover lol
Some fight scenes were nice tho
No. 281251
>>281242The whole queerbaiting debacle was over them hyping up Shiro’s ex boyfriend at comic con and heavily marketing it (though to what extent is the showrunners and what extent is Netflix is not known).
Fans expected more than an ambiguous conversation and a quick death after that. A few days after the shitstorm one of the writers said he knew about the “bury your gays” thing but assumed their Dumbledore-outing of Shiro would have been enough.
No. 281443
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>>281242They are deluded, if you don't come in with shipping goggles you will rightly see zero romantic chemistry between the two.
And yet you had fans writing 50k world 'Klibles' asserting proof of this pairing. Their blow out is about as entertaining as it is concerning, those younger fans are absolutely fucked in the head but I can't be too tough on them when obsessions/meltdowns have happened with women in their 20s and 30s too.
No. 281591
>>281242That's not the queerbaiting ship, that's the one that's completely noncanon and has the worst lunatic fanbase I've ever seen.
>>281244Famalam, it's still not common. It's AS common as it was in 2007.
No. 283542
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The show itself is far too mediocre for the fandom it gathered, but when you have 3 generic anime guys interacting fujos will shit themselves and call it romance lmao