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Faith doesn't really bother me as much as Lauren and June do.
I feel like some are obviously doing it for attention and male approval whereas others likely do have traditional values or stances on certain subjects, but they go about expressing those views in a tactless manner.
There also doesn't seem to be a concise agreement on what exactly a traditional woman is anymore. According to /pol/, it is a woman who dresses like she's Amish, doesn't swear, doesn't drink, doesn't wear makeup, isn't educated, and exists only to shoot out children and serve the husband. Which.. is sort of ironic because for a community which hates Islam so much many Muslim men expect just that from their wives and daughters.
At the same time, that community complains that marrying a woman who doesn't work is a lazy, gold digging cunt who probably fucks the repair man (such a dated assumption which was promoted heavily by 1990s porn, but okay) while they're at work. Which then leaves you to wonder.. what exactly do they fucking want?
The way that I see it is you can have beliefs or standards which are deemed "traditional" or even dated yet coexist with modernity. You can want to be a stay at home mother who enjoys video games with your husband or children. You can think that sex before marriage is "wrong" and still wear jeans.
I think that people should ultimately do what makes them happiest so long as nobody is getting hurt. I also don't find it to be terribly stable for people to operate in such extremes.
As a traditional woman myself, these women arent trad at all
They do it to cater to men which is quite obvious, and just take the lowest hanging bait to ""rebuke""
Call themselves trad but bash feminism and bash other women and then act as if feminism is stopping women from being trad when tons of trad women are also feminists, and actual trad to, not "i wanna get attention from neo nazi so im trad teehe"
They fail to pick up the true aspects of traditionalism and cling to the "FUCK YOU FEMINISTS GIVE ME ATTENTION MEN!!! IF YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT MY HYPOCRISY YOURE NOT A FEMINIST!!!" Aspect
Given, I think its badass when women want to start a business, become a doctor, become a pilot, basically typical male type stuff, and I support women who want to do those things, not shout in their face "SIT DOWN FEMINISM IS A LIE SWEETIE MEN DO EVERYTHING BECOME A HOUSEWIFE BABYMAKER"
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This is especially true with June/sh0eonhead. Her videos go for the lowest hanging fruit, the obvious fringe movements and people with their xe/xim/xer pronouns, colored armpit hair, and freebleeding and they make it seem as if it is representative of feminism as a whole. These same types of fringe feminists existed back in the 1980s and had the same booths at women's conventions about worshiping the goddess, crystals, vhs about periods, and a ton of crap created with the intent to shock and offend. Outrageous behavior isn't anything new yet people like to pretend as if it is in order to get views.
Though whenever hyperliberals rush to use Westboro Baptist Church as a reflection of all Christians, people are quick on the uptake to remind people how fringe WBC is. No contradictions here folks! >>220080
Trust me, I've seen it for years over there. I remember when I used to lurk /r9k/ and they'd be posting photos of women from the 1950s and asking why they were "such sluts" because they "always wore heels and dresses".
>sluts>dressing in the standard attire of the time period>high femininity was more expected of a woman back then
But if you were to say something then it turns into
>WHY DO WOMEN FREQUENT THE CHANS IF THEY DONT UNDERSTAND BANTS
I could ask why men lurk here or other girl oriented spaces and take any banter they see 100% seriously, but that isn't a fruitful endeavor.
>>220084>There are women in this world, particularly in countries under Islamic rule, that are being oppressed but privileged feminists of the West refuse to acknowledge that.
Which is sad because feminists in the 1990s and non-fringe ones nowadays do actually acknowledge such travesties, but they're lynchmobbed into silence by cultural relativists who tell them to stop trying to westernize those nations. You'll also see evidently brainwashed Muslims on the videos of old Iran, specifically the ones which feature Iranian women in Chanel suits and "normal" western attire, in the comments shouting about how those photos reflect only the upper class of the country and the old regime was oh so terrible. Ever read Persepolis? The hijab was a choice back in the day and even Muslims admit this.
One of the mistakes I see people making is assuming that feminism has this universal solidarity when it really doesn't. The movement served its purpose in the west and the current wave which has been in action since the late 1970s/1980s is people looking for cash grabs and attention.
Not to mention that there are so many disagreements within modern feminism that notable "old" feminist scholars have considered it to be "dead" for quite some time now, not just because it served its purpose but the constant splintering off into all these sects and branches.
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Samefag here replying with an example of the complaints of westernization: http://antiporn-activist.tumblr.com/post/168737206736/auntiewanda-pomeranianprivilege-mordeshoor
I had heard all of the horror stories about Tumblr for years and I finally made an account last month. While I do see some truly cringy shit on here, I also see examples of pic and link related which give me hope that people aren't as retarded as we're led to believe by clickbait and university brats.
>>220079>Call themselves trad but bash feminism and bash other women and then act as if feminism is stopping women from being trad when tons of trad women are also feminists
You've completely summed up why they bother me, as a "non trad" woman I guess. I've never desired marriage or children, and I've always been ~career driven~, but obviously I have no problem with women who have more traditional values (though like you said, what those actually are seem to vary from woman to woman) and I greatly respect homemakers/stay at home moms, as my own mother was one and I saw what that lifestyle is truly like. But they're pushing this trad thing so hard that now men see a woman who wants to go get a fucking associate's degree at the very least as a worthless roastie whore and victim of modern feminism ~tricking~ women into believing we want to work outside the home. It's getting ridiculous.
Other than the fact that most of them constantly drag other women (I always remember Lauren mocking the girl who wanted to become a pharmacist on Twitter), the most shitty thing is that in a roundabout way they also encourage the absolute shittiest, most misogynistic men to attack women for being anything less than a submissive incubator for white babies. This is becoming a common view now and I partially blame the trad uprising. Having a part time job or going to college makes you a feminazi in these people's eyes now.
I agree with you as someone who feels closer to the trad side yet lies somewhere within the middle. There are indeed women in the so called trad or right side who drag down other women for the exact petty shit of their looks.
Another good example of this is someone who isn't frequently cited, but Lana from Red Ice Tv. I began watching them two years ago and I found that I preferred her husband's (Hendrik, the other host) videos over her own because whenever it was a Lana video she was always insufferably smug. Even when she does shows alongside Hendrick, she has interrupted him or their guest speakers to make catty comments about "the women of the left" and follows it up with this Squidward-like laugh. I shit you not, it sounds like that.
Like I get it dude. The sjw women have some real bitches amongst their ranks and some are indeed hideous, but when you attempt to present yourself as superior for being blonde and blue eyed, trad, and wearing round neck alpaca tops all the time and you randomly interject a meaningful discussion about geopolitics or spend an entire 40 minute video shitting with another 6/10 at best chick about how ugly women are you are part of the problem. You are part of why women are not taken seriously because you fling ad hominem to the point where even your guests who are on the same side as you are taken aback, because you fucking sound like a high schooler. It doesn't matter how much Bronte, Hawthorne, or Austen you can recite verbatim while you're breastfeeding. You're not "ladylike".
I think that privilege is what makes me hate them. Lazy fucks…
I also hate how they put more fucking kids on the planet (99% of which turn out to be shitty), usually for some selfish reason like keeping le bloodline going. If you want a kid, ADOPT one. These are the same people who are pro-life and think putting the kid up for adoption is the best thing to do, yet they hardly ever adopt and leave those kids to get fucked over. Guess they don't give a shit about the fact that most trafficked kids are fostered.
adding to thishttp://justicefororphansny.org/global-orphan-care-human-trafficking-prevention/>Statistics reveal that 10-15% commit suicide before the age of 18. >60% of the girls are forced into prostitution (human trafficking).>70% of the boys become hardened criminals.
>>220228>no one is obligated to raise someone else's child
Never said they were, but the last thing they need to do is put more kids on this planet. If they're going go be pro-life, they need to be pro-life and not just anti-abortion.
>overpopulation meme applies to places such as africa, China, and India
It's not a meme and clearly it is
effecting the western world too.
>not everyone has the mental capacity to raise someone else coming with so much baggage and potential mental issues
If you can't, maybe you shouldn't have kids in the first place.
>It also costs several thousand dollars to adopt a child
You shouldn't be having kids if you're broke either. And if you really wanted one, you'd be willing to go through whatever complicated adoption stuff you'd need to.
>comparing human trafficking to adoption
are you high?>>220245
You know I support abortion, right?
You know how you don't like to be generalized? Yeah, don't bring that mess into this thread.
Seriously and this another problem with both sides; Assuming the opinions of an individual and not even bothering to ask yet popping off when somebody does it to you.
I understand that adopting makes people feel virtuous, but I already stated how it isn't for everybody. And, you seem to be assuming just like another anon did about what people think. As I mentioned earlier itt, there is no longer a consice definition of what it means to be trad any more. It varies from person to person, culture to culture, household to household. There are people who are trad with liberal leanings and vice versa.
As for kids in the system? I would rather avoid the factors which create abandoned children in the first place.
.. but that would require people to be responsible. :^)
This. I wouldn't be bothered by "traditional women" so much if it wasn't so obviously done to get approval from all the alt-right men. It's a form of the "not like other girls/I like guys better because they're chill" disease. But if a woman wants to be traditional by her own desire, then I'm completely okay with it as long as she's not putting other women down like these alt-right queen bees do. >>220082>I could ask why men lurk here or other girl oriented spaces and take any banter they see 100% seriously, but that isn't a fruitful endeavor.
This is hilarious because it's so true. You can see all the butthurt males here being offended by gendered banter at their direction more than any woman ever would.
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"This is a picture from 1979 of Iranian women protesting against the compulsory wearing of Hijab in public places in Iran"
Imagine how much disgust older women who lived through this must have for nowadays hijab-loving muslim "feminists"…
Ive never heard a self proclaimed "muslim feminist" say they are in favor of forcing women to wear the hijab.
Why is that because Iranian government forces women to wear hijab, that justifies attacking western muslims who choose to wear it with there own free will?
I know I'm going to get a lot of hate but imho its extremely hypocritical to shame women who -choose- to wear hijab. Its a free country so why are people so triggered
by a scarf?
>>220259>you seem to be assuming just like another anon did about what people think
I'm talking about what the majority thinks wtf? I don't give a fuck about the outliers.
And I hope by "that would require people to be responsible" you mean it would require MEN to stop raping women, fucking them and leaving, refusing to help raise the child, etc. because that's usually the cause.
Still why are you triggered
by women who want to wear hijab?
The hijab itself isn't an object of opression until people start forcing women to wear or not wear it.
My point is no feminist supports women being forced to wear it by anyone.
It would make sense if western muslims said "Yeah its ok for men to force women to wear hijab." But no one thinks that lmao.
Why are you ignoring what another anon told you about what this thread is about?
Go be intentionally obtuse somewhere else.
Can you not read….? -→ >>220341
You are the one intentionally ignoring my point because you can't think of a reasonable answer.
>Nike is catering to hijabi women who want to play sports, oh the oppression, the misogyny.
> I can't think of a valid argument so here's a meme XDEE
Who are the white Muslim convert feminists calling for heads without scarves to be chopped off?
Dude, maybe YOU should leave if you can't stand someone having a different political view than you. lol
I seriously want to know who are all these western feminist jihadists who want to behead non hijab wearers.
Clearly Muslim people who study Quran and their own faith don't know as much about Islam as the edgy atheists who read bombislam.com and Fox News do.
Hijab is meant to display modesty so why is choosing to not show random men your body degrading but walking around with your tits out is empowering.
You sound a lot more asshurt than anybody else in this thread. Also
>meant to convey modesty >>220338>not an act of oppression
Pick one, dipshit.
And yeah, people do expect you to be able to both debate and humorously banter on an imageboard. So you can shove the "everyone who doesn't agree with me is inferior" greentext far up your cunt.
Really judging by how emotionally invested in this you are the only one "asshurt" here is you. Everyone else is pretty civil disagreeing with me or not. The person who green text quoted you 3 times wasn't even me so I'm not the only one who thinks you're acting like an idiot..
>pick one dipshit REEEE
Right because wanting to be modest = being oppressed lmao.
I don't think you are inferior to me just because you sleep around and dress slutty. I really don't care. Stop taking it so personally. Lol. Why is it so hard for you to accept that some women CHOOSE to be modest?
>>220386>It's a fact that Muhammad owned slaves
Yeah and what Rebel Media or whoever didn't tell you is that when these people were given to him he freed them. (Safiya and Maria, to name a couple.)
Why would an evil misogynist free women that were given to him by slave owners?
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This basically. Stop giving them so much attention.
Are you fucking kidding me? He bought, owned, and sold tons of slaves, including sex slaves and concubines, he only freed a fraction of them.
Stop trying to excuse this shit. A religion in which you can mary a baby girl (multiple if you want) and treat her like your property for her whole life is a bad fucking religion. I s2g Islam apologists are even more braindead and misogynistic than both MRAs and TRAs.
Yikes, the titles of some of her videos.
The funny thing is that the men who comment on videos talking about “where have all the good men gone?” pretty much say the same shit in reverse. “Why can’t I find a western woman who is submissive and will worship my dick while I treat her like shit and tell her how worthless women are!?”
However they find those complaints legitimate, and you would never see anyone make a video with the title “where have all the good women gone? They’re avoiding misogynist men.”
I think what >>220399
meant is that they profit from feminism, whether they claim to like it or not. They claim to honor tradition and want to go back to the good old days where women's primary sphere was the home and fucking bake sales, but if it weren't for feminism they wouldn't be able to travel all across the world making faux-journalism videos and having such an unconventional career. Lauren IS pretty feminist in the traditional sense of the world, she's very independent, seems like a go-getter, and values her choices.
Look I don't want to assume anything, who knows what will happen, but do you really picture Lauren giving up all these basically free trips and patreon bucks to settle down and be a PTA mom? She shits on other young women (18-25ish) for focusing on career or schooling, but what is she doing? There's no sign of her getting married in the near future: she's enjoying her 20s and making a niche career for herself, like most other women our age. But for some reason it's fine when she does it, and other women are shitty feminazis when they do it.
they seen too many nitpicked part of radical feminism but fail to realize moderate feminists exist, the bad parts of feminism are stretched and exaggerated too much to hell and back people think that's pretty much all feminism is, if you ask why people like june and lauren why they don't like feminism, they either say "because I'm trad!!" or give examples of crazy feminists and fail to realize most normal feminists actually hate the crazy ones and encourage women to make their own choices whether they want to be trad or not
it's gotten to a point where "feminist" is often an insult towards people simply if a woman calls someone out on shitty behavior or talks about making her own choices, like when the bear grylls thing happened, and men were circlejerking about how men are superior and women should be girly stay at home moms because nature, and the second a woman said something like "fuck nature I want to become a businesswoman and support myself" men screamed and cried about "BUT BUT BUT MUH NATURE!!!" and then cried about how she was an evil feminazi just because she wanted to make her own choices
Honestly, just ignore that anon. They haven't legitimately contributed to the thread. They've only shit it up by trying to be as contrary as possible then accuse everyone else of being the triggered
ones despite no one here white knighting Islam as hard as they are. It's probably some white girl with Muslimat friends who wear hijab and were raised in a first world nation and insist that there isn't anything inherently malicious about Islam.
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Like I said it's better to ignore those types because they're set in their ways. They cite Dubai as the example of Muslim society and their friends who look like pic related along with all the other painted up hijabi over on Instagram as "proof" that no oppression takes place and it's all in our heads because Trump or some shit. Even when you're an apostate or come directly from Pakistan, Iran, southeast Asia, etc they have something to pull from their ass about why you're wrong. Not even trying to sound Tumblr but their privilege shows when they're able to speak on behalf of something they don't know anything about and shout down those who do.
Any woman who reads the Quran will immediately know it was party made to make sure women will never have the power and will always shut up.
(source : I have a Quran at home, and half of my family is muslim.)
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tradthots should be ground up as dog food.
They literally don't. They constantly say "the patriarchy and misogyny is the one thing Islam gets right." I literally saw a comment like that today on a youtube video but I can't find it now….they aren't difficult to come across though.
Plus the whole white sharia thing. They have no issue with how Islam treats women, no matter how much they use "white women raped by muslim rape gangs!!" headlines to pretend to care, they are just mad that they aren't the ones doing it. They have no problem with the behavior, just that Muslim men are damaging their property basically. They piss me off.
Here's an article that says a white Islam would be a good thing.
"To all the e-thots out there: mean tweets aren’t the half of it. Consider yourself lucky if we only bring back the stocks and the scold’s bridle. We’re going to have WHITE SHARIA in WHITE AFGHANISTAN, and you’re going to have a big problem. If you aren’t lucky, this thing is going full Turner Diaries. I know you probably haven’t read Dr. Pierce’s works because you generally don’t read at all but you might want to crack that thing open and find out what happens to coal burners."
Not trying to derail so not going to say much about alt right men, but I do wonder why they'd want to cater to men who clearly hate them for the virtue of being female. There's a huge difference between just wanting a nuclear family vs. screaming other women are sluts etc if they choose not to get married. I feel like these women are the "not like other girls" types as adults, a lot of women including myself go through that phase of thinking women are all catty etc and fish for male approval as teens but do grow out of it and become our own person, these women didn't.
God I hate these men so much. And it makes me hate people like Lauren even more for catering them, watering down their ideas, and then spreading them to the masses.
This shit scares me so much as woman in the US because it really seems to be picking up support. I mean what the fuck. Men will dismiss it as a joke too. It isn't a joke when it's constant and it's targeting you. I really worry what this country will look like for women 10 years down the line. Maybe I'm being reactionary but….fuck.
Anon, I understand what you mean. There's this constant reeing about the "leftist media" but look at comment sections on the majority of lefty articles its people mocking it, most people aren't feminists these days - the "radical left" they speak off isn't "trendy" anymore. They've freaked out over satire so much many times #EndFathersDay (was started by a troll on 4chan iirc) #KillAllMen all this shit was just hashtags on twitter too, not entire articles advocating for the torture or death of men. If there was a detailed article such as this one advocating to bring back torture devices to use on men it would be viral, this has weirdly been ignored.
Women supporting these men really anger me too, it gives us a bad name and I just wish they had an ounce of self-respect to realize these men don't actually give a fuck about them, just because you're cute and say things they like it doesn't mean they'll treat you any better. It's already happening, Lauren's fan base is shitting on her for not being barefoot and pregnant but either she still doesn't realize they aren't just trolls, that's what they really think or she takes money over her self respect.
I'm glad someone else sees it this way. It's terrifying. I've already seen poeple claiming they won't hire women anymore after #metoo (punishing women for speaking out about abuse…I guess men should just be allowed to abuse us?) Then there's shit like this that goes completely unchallenged or men purposefully write it off as satire so that 'normies' don't take it seriously. But they ARE dead serious. And I just know that there aren't enough men (or women) who are against this type of shit to help defend our rights if it came to that. Maybe I shouldn't say this outside of the man hating thread, but that is what men want, none of them would mind.
I don't even ask that everybody be a feminist…but just view women as people maybe? Don't advocate for not only taking our rights away, but torturing and subjugating us? Is that really expecting too much? God I just want to die. Things are going to get REALLY bad.
I should add, also, that the real scary thing is that no matter how much these men hate Muslims, or black people, immigrants, Jews, exc….they hate women more. The podcast linked here >>220545
made a really good point. The evangelicals, alt-right, and Muslim extremists have that in common: they fucking hate women. If they set aside their differences and focused on that one enemy, women, things could get really fucking bad.
I know that I'm reaching Mad Max levels of dystopian fear here, but I'm also being serious. This shit scares me. And I don't know what to do or say to stop it.
Yeah, I feel the same. I don't even call myself a feminist as there are aspects of feminism I disagree with HOWEVER I agree with the premise of women being treated equally and as humans…is that so much to ask? Yeah, we may have equal rights in the West but socially we are still shat on and there are so many people who want to take our rights away.
Women like Lauren Southern are playing a really dangerous game by publicly supporting this shit, honestly, even though I hate her I do worry she'll end up in an abusive relationship due to how little self-respect she has for herself and the type of men she panders too. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, going to blogpost a bit but I dated a guy that seemed like he came straight out of the redpill, he was extremely abusive and controlling. I found redpill shit on his laptop while borrowing it (by just typing "r" into the browser I wasn't snooping on him) and shit he did to me, was advice from the red pill. "Negging" aka pretty much emotional abuse to make me insecure so I think I can't do better than him, controlling when I go out, guilt tripping me into not seeing friends….literally these women are pandering to abusive men and it fucking baffles me. Being with someone like that was miserable, I'd rather be a single cat lady than in a relationship like that.
(want to add I had no idea the guy I dated was like this, he acted completely normal the first two months of our relationship)
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Not OP, but I thought this thread would go somewhere and all it did was devolve into man-hating… like nearly every other thread that someone starts.
It really blows that there can't even be a single lengthy discussion held on this site without it returning to the topic of men. inb4 I'm dogpiled and accused of being an incel
I don't see any man-hating in this thread….which posts are you referring to?
If you mean the most recent discussion, personally I still think it's relevant to the topic. These men are the types that the 'trad women' are pandering to, and they advocate for the type of society that people like Lauren say that they want.
Not sure if she counts as a trad/alt right but this thread reminded me of this post that went viral a few years ago. Tldr version basically she argues the Steubenville case wasn't really rape, it was just boys being silly and she shouldn't have gotten drunk, that there should be punishment for women who get too drunk.
I honestly don't understand these women, why are they so hateful and angry towards other women? If they want to be traditional that's completely fine, yeah there's a few crazy feminists who shriek you're giving into the patriarchy and marriage is oppressive etc but they're such a minority, loads of feminists are married themselves. I don't think it's just about critiquing feminism or advocating for a traditional life style at this point, there's some weird self hatred going on and a need for male approval. Their entire identities are based on shitting on other women, that's depressing to me.
Sorry if my posts are really long, I'm just so confused by these women. Why do they hate their own gender so much and why do they want to pander to one of the worst types of men?
Its called wanting attention and money.
If you're looking for some complexity here you're not going to find it.
We aren't toeing the line of any subject though. Those posts are relevant to the topic. Those are the types of ideologies that these women pander to, and those posts will be the end result if they get what they want.
It's perfectly on topic. I still don't see any man-hating. If calling out certain men for writing crazy shit is man-hating, then I don't know what to tell you. We can't criticize the rants of men whatsoever now?
They are though. Or they will be. Men read those things (over and over), men overwhelmingly agree and support, movements form and attract even more men, shit starts to go south for women. It isn't hard to understand.
I just wonder if the trad girls, and people like judgybitch, will regret it. They claim to want patriarchy and traditionalism back, and fucking hate women, but they don't seem to truly understand that they too will be treated this way. They aren't going to be the exception. They aren't special to these people. They will be fucked too.
Nobody is trying to shut you down, calm down you triggered
shit. Why do you people always think you're being persecuted? Like seriously the victim complex itt is astounding.
You're being told that the thread is getting shit up because its yet another one dedicated to blogging about exes and how scary men are despite us having, what, several threads on this topic already in varying degrees of severity in both /ot/ and /g/? Its as bad as every other girl oriented space where all anybody wants to talk about is masturbation, periods, and their vaginas constantly. And yet you wonder why so many men don't fucking take us seriously, but I'm sure my post will get shoved off as internalized hatred of muh species or some other hogwash.
They are major attention whores, where did I imply otherwise? But there are plenty of other ways to seek attention that doesn't involve shitting on their entire gender. I'm just discussing what goes on inside their heads, y'know it's a thread where we talk about the subject. >>220777
Agreed, I think they believe they're some special kind of women and above the rest. I find it ironic they often go on about other women being catty, when it's their types I see being the most catty tbh. I always see shoe0nhead calling other women fat etc, Lauren Southern calling women degenerates, thots etc. Judgybitch's entire article was aggressive as fuck and full of name-calling.
What…? I'm not triggered
at all. I simply don't see where you are seeing man-hating in this thread, or even very many posts going off topic. I still think those posts that you are referring to, about the dailystormer and what not, are relevant to the thread. I don't really know where you are seeing man-hating just because they are men that wrote that post that we are discussing is all.
To be fair I only see one post mentioning an ex-boyfriend, so you have a point there, but there aren't even any replies to it. It stopped right there and wasn't engaged with.
This is why people hate trad women
I don't understand why trad thots (I mean women like Lauren, not your average real traditional woman) can't just stfu and let women do what they like. They want to be housewives, awesome go and do it. Yet they spend all their time focusing on other women and screaming that they're sluts, why do they care so much what other women are doing? Just go get yourself a husband and live that trad life.
Women having choices literally does not stop them from CHOOSING to be traditional, there is no "war" on the nuclear family, there is nobody stopping them from being housewives. They act like a few meme feminists and single mums are taking over the world, when really the majority of people want the nuclear family. It's mainly economical factors that stop people marrying young and having kids, if they really give a shit about preserving family traditions why don't they talk about the economical factors that stop young people getting married. "Hook up culture" is nothing new, people were still having one night stands, having affairs etc before millennial's the difference is that it's not a secret anymore and everything is online. It was still very much happening though, yet traditional families were still able to be a thing, I wonder why? Maybe because housing costs weren't completely fucked, people in their early 20's can't even afford to own a house most of the time, how the hell can you be expected to drop everything and get married with kids when your finances are nowhere near able to provide that?
>>220797>if they really give a shit about preserving family traditions why don't they talk about the economical factors that stop young people getting married
Because that'd be complicated, anon, and would require thinking about the subject for a second rather than parroting whatever gives them views.
I find it funny that these people tend to love capitalism but forget that hookup culture, shallowness and greediness and everything they complain about is only as pervasive as they are now because people have to make money. The traditional lifestyle isn't viable in such a system, but they're stuck with some weird 50's fiction in their heads.
Does anyone even know where the whole idealized traditional thing came to be? I'd love to read about thatAnf If we're talking "traditional" I'd say I respect the tradthots more than the men who give them attention and views. Neither of them know what the fuck they're talking about, but at least the women are living more or less how they want to live and getting something out of it.
True, I'm just arguing hypothetically really I know they just want money and male approval. I'm just amazed nobody seems to question them lmao, when there are so many flaws in the things they argue for.
Yeah very true about the capitalism thing, I remember Lauren once said something along the lines of "People value instagram likes more than having a family!" bitch your entire career is built from social media.
Same, as it seems very recent this while fetishizing the 50's. I know people liked the 50's aesthetics but actually longing for a time where you pretty much had no choices in life is fucking bizarre to me and I've no clue when it started.
They get away with it tho cuz many radfem are against the whole "slut-shaming and sex workers" movement
So their argument appeals to people on both sides.
I am a muslim Loll. From a muslim country, keep making things up to suit your agenda its funny.
Why do non muslims try so hard to convince us how oppressed we are lmao. Then get so angry and hostile if we just say; "Hey I choose to wear hijab."
Yes there are horrible people who force them, but it's not even required in Islam like someone else said before. And why does that justify harassing random hijabis walking by, really wtf?
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Show me where in this thread people advocated for harassing random passerby.
←- Hm. Wow. Its almost as if I already stated that it used to be a choice earlier itt.
Just because you don't feel actively oppressed doesn't mean that we aren't allowed to discuss women who are. You can't rightfully get indignant when nobody besides you has come off as a sympathizer.
>>220075>According to /pol/, it is a woman who dresses like she's Amish, doesn't swear, doesn't drink, doesn't wear makeup, isn't educated, and exists only to shoot out children and serve the husband. Which.. is sort of ironic because for a community which hates Islam so much many Muslim men expect just that from their wives and daughters.
This is a misrepresentation of the general beliefs held by an average /pol/ user. >Which.. is sort of ironic because for a community which hates Islam so much many Muslim men expect just that from their wives and daughters.
Keeping in mind that your above portrayal of "/pol/'s" view is a misrepresentation, this isn't ironic at all. You should also know that Islam has more disagreeable aspects than just treatment of women. >At the same time, that community complains that marrying a woman who doesn't work is a lazy, gold digging cunt who probably fucks the repair man (such a dated assumption which was promoted heavily by 1990s porn, but okay) while they're at work.
Another misrepresentation. There is no contradiction and your observation is based on a strawman.(the average /pol/ user)
Not the anon you're replying to, but can you please explain how it is a misrepresentation of their views? As far as I can see, as a /pol/ lurker, it isn't. They have a problem with women quite literally doing anything that isn't 'having white babies' or serving her husband/family. They constantly rail against 'thots', which includes almost every single type of woman aside from kissless virgins who never show skin. They see women as property and even see them as mentally deficient ("women are children"), much like Muslim men do.
Sure, there are other problems they have with Islam. Their treatment of women is not one of them. I've even frequently seen them say things like their treatment of women is "the only thing Muslims get right." So what does an average /pol/ user believe in regards to women? Not trying to be combative, I'm genuinely asking. Because from what I've witnessed, that other anon is quite accurate. I'd go as far as to say I've never once seen a post that 'defends' women against talking points like this. Never seen a /pol/ user say women should be doing anything but childbirth and domestic duties. And yes I know there are some trolls on /pol/.
100% this, another vistor of /pol/ here
can confirm they agree with the way muslims treat their women, the biggest issue they have with muslims is the fact that they're terrified of losing their HUWITE womyn lol
Yeah I don't see why occasionally /pol/ users try to whitewash their views/what is constantly posted on there and make it seem like it's the opposite. It's like saying "actually the average /pol/ user doesn't hate Jews" after the 1500th thread about 'gassing the kikes.' We can all go visit the board right now, and I guarantee there will be like five threads about how women are worthless whores who need to be subjugated and have their rights taken away because they're mentally children blah blah blah. It's like a post I saw on /r/debatethealtright the other day where someone who claimed to be alt-right tried to say they weren't against women's rights lmao. Ok sure buddy, that goes against literally every single talking point I've seen from them before.
Something stupid and very transparent I've seen in certain members of the alt-right lately is like….trying to make their views more palatable for women. All of a sudden they want to walk their hatred for women back a little bit to bring more women into the movement after there were multiple articles and anecdotes about how they hate women. It's funny to watch, because anyone who has followed their shit for any amount of time knows how fake it is. And their little manipulation is constantly foiled by the other half of the alt-right that is still in "ACTUALLY GAS THE ROASTIES REPEAL THE 19TH" mode.
Why deny something that we can easily see is true? Hell, the average /pol/ user actually says worse shit than that on a daily basis.
>>221014>Not the anon you're replying to, but can you please explain how it is a misrepresentation of their views?
Almost everything she said was wrong or exaggerated. It reads like an out of touch strawman written by someone who works at BuzzFeed.
>According to /pol/, it is a woman who dresses like she's Amish
There is little desire to have restrictions on dress. Obviously women that consistently dress like a tramp are looked down upon, but you understand that shame and restriction are two different things?>Doesn't swear
I have never once seen this mentioned. Looking through the archives briefly verifies this claim. I see no references to women being forbidden from swearing.>doesn't drink
Just as above.>doesn't wear makeup
There is an element of truth to this but you misrepresent yet again. There is a distinction between walking around caked in make up and just wearing make up. The objection is to the former, not the latter.>isn't educated
There is little desire to have restriction on education. >exists only to shoot out children and serve the husband
And yet again, another misrepresentation. The belief is not that women should only have children, rather that their primary role is to have and raise children.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
>>221032>walking around caked in makeup and just wearing makeup
Not that anon but even you aren't dumb enough to ignore how arbitrary and subjective that is.
Most men who point out "natural" complexions on the internet are unaware that the woman is, in fact, "caked" with foundation, mascara, eyeliner, lipstick, and eyebrow pencil.
Insulting makeup has always just been for the sake of negging a particular woman. She's "pretty" one moment, but if she slights a man then suddenly she's a "clown cakeface who wears too much."
One man thinks foundation and eyeliner is "caking it on," the next man doesn't give a shit or thinks it's not enough.
>little desire to restrict education
Pol thinks college-educated women are a meme. The second a post grad woman runs into trouble or isn't married by 30, they blame it on her not being domestic and opting for a career. The common insult is "SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN DAT DEGREE IN GENDER STUDIES," because you know, women are too stupid to go to college for anything but gender studies. And only gender studies grads have trouble later in life.
>primary role is to raise and have children
Yep. And also go to work 40 hours a week, and then come home to cook and clean while poltards plop their asses in front of a tv. You got it. This is the nu male "equality" that women get to have. Just more expectations and more hard work like the proper slaves poltards think we are.
You are willfully downplaying how much /pol/ hates women and wishes to restrict their rights and choices. And you know it, so why lie? Like you, I've never seen /pol/ bring up drinking or swearing, but I believe that anon was only trying to make the point that the views that /pol/ have about women are virtually indistinguishable from the view that Muslim men have about women. They don't believe women should pursue higher education or careers, and if they do they're whores. They don't want women in the workforce. They view us as something that needs to be controlled, something that serves as a hole for them to fuck and push out their white male children, and something that is so far beneath them that they celebrate the day we become "obsolete."
I mean come on. You've made your argument civilly and I'm sure we all appreciate that, but the thing I dislike about people like you is that you know you're being disingenuous, and you know that the majority of posters there either believe this things or have no problem fraternizing with people that do, so why try to downplay it? If they're comfortable posting about it all day everyday, they can stand by what they say/believe and not back down from it just because some people point out that they sound very similar (identical) to the culture they despise the most.
I mean if you/they really want people to believe that they have even a little bit higher regard for women than Islam, maybe check to make sure there's not post upon post upon post in the archive talking about how worthless women are and how they deserve to be subjugated. No one is putting words in their mouth , they're pretty open about these things.
>>220761>Women like Lauren Southern are playing a really dangerous game by publicly supporting this shit, honestly, even though I hate her I do worry she'll end up in an abusive relationship due to how little self-respect she has for herself and the type of men she panders too.
I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up in an abusive relationship and "bluepilled" afterwards. She doesn't seem to fully believe in her ideology as it pretty much radiates from her that she's only doing it for the attention and male approval, it's not going to carry through a bad experience. >>220778>t. male>>220797>Women having choices literally does not stop them from CHOOSING to be traditional, there is no "war" on the nuclear family, there is nobody stopping them from being housewives. They act like a few meme feminists and single mums are taking over the world, when really the majority of people want the nuclear family.
I guess it's because they're insecure about their position as a house wife so they see the whole world against them? People want to support career-driven women because it's a relatively new thing for women to be able to do that. And that makes the housewife type probably realize that she's at a disadvantage because she has no training, no degree or work experience and she's completely dependent on her husband. It's a blow to your self-esteem and sense of security, of course it's going to throw you into a defensive mode.
Agreed. I don't see Lauren ending up like that. I feel as though anons are so accustomed to seeing extreme behavior from other cows that they've come to expect it from everybody else.
Being "traditional" is in right now. It is profitable as the tides are turning and people question where their allegiances lie. However, people such as Lauren, Faith, June (inb4 she is liberal!1!1!!, she plays up and panders to the trad angle, read the threads before any of you screech) don't actively practice what they preach. Plastering alt-right memes as captions on photos of oneself in a kitchen with two other ~*ttly trad galpals*~ or spamming your favorite saints isn't what it means to be traditional. They act like high schoolers about this and as much as I can't stand to say this, it truly has become the new "not like other girls". It is also interesting how the women who do this aren't married nor do they have any children. Its like a game to them. They romanticize this shit and assume that being traditional means wearing shitty rockabilly dresses and victory curls and there are never any problems.
That's heartbreaking that she really wants to be a homemaker/housewife and she is having trouble conceiving.
That being said I just can't fucking understand the trad thing…I know that everyone is different so I can't expect to understand it necessarily. I support and accept it for other people (not that they need me to support or accept their lifestyle), but I can't relate to it. Goddamn I can't think of anything that would make me more miserable than being a housewife/mother. And everyone always acts like ALL women want that. And you try to tell them no, no it's not for me. I wouldn't be happy. And the trad-pushers are like "YES YOU WOULD THATS WHAT MAKES ALL WOMEN HAPPY. YOUR CAREER WON'T MAKE YOU HAPPY. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE A DRIED UP OLD CAT LADY DO YOU NOW?"
But I mean…I kind of do want that. Pretty sure I know myself better than some 1488 trad obsessed twitter dudes and Jordan Peterson lmao. The fact that they can't accept that some women don't want that is what bothers me. I just don't get it. Why does each choice have to be shat on by different ends of the spectrum?
And why do they only have a problem with women when they choose not to be ~trad~? What about MGTOW men, who are the complete opposite of trad and don't want marriage or families at all? They don't get derided for it.
I guess it sucks but I really couldn't stand her at the moment because she was the kind of woman insisting that all women should be trad. I don't understand why she doesn't adopt especially she is Catholic and pro-life. So yeah, sucks to be her.
I also don't understand what housewives are supposed to do after their kids leave elementary school. At that age kids want more independence and don't want to spend so much time with mom. It just seems frivolous.
The trad life is just objectively a bad decision for both women and the men they marry. ESPECIALLY if you have kids.
What happens if the husband loses his job or has an unexpected health issue where he can't work? Seems like a pretty fucking obvious variable to take into consideration.
It's just a fucking fact that the more money you have, the better quality of life your child will have. That impacts them a hell of a lot better than having their mom stay at home (which doesn't even benefit them once they're in school). Have fun sending your child to college on a single income. Not to mention things like family emergencies, vacations, their entertainment, and just taking care of them in general. It's just downright irresponsible to be voluntarily single income when you have kids unless you're incredibly wealthy.
Men's stress levels drastically improve when they're not the only source of income in the house. They're under less pressure, have more freedom, and obviously it improves their financial situation greatly.
There is literally no valid reason to promote the trad lifestyle other than that it makes a woman totally reliant on you. It's just a totally illogical way to go about your household. It means less money/financial security, more pressure on the husband, and makes your family incredibly vulnerable if shit goes down.
Also, in my experience, the men who encourage it are generally the same ones complaining about women being gold diggers if they so much as expect a guy to pay for the dinner he invited her out to. So I have no idea how they expect to handle paying for literally fucking everything for her.
And women like Lauren Southern and Shoe aren't even fucking trad.
>>221269>it truly has become the new "not like other girls"
Oh my god, I never realized this before. >>220799>Does anyone even know where the whole idealized traditional thing came to be? I'd love to read about that
It stems from the extreme romanticization of the 50's that's so rampant in American culture. Americans are straight up obsessive when it comes to their love of nostalgia for the post-war era. There's a lot of essays covering this phenomenon and it's a very fascinating subject to read about. The reality of the 50's was that it was an absolutely horrid time period for a laundry list of reasons, but people view it in rose tinted glasses because the economy was doing well, technology had advanced a lot, and it was very aesthetically pleasing.
Most of these people are too whorish to be tradition. How is shaking up with different men, showing tits, lying, cursing, and not doing charity work being TRAD. Heathens. >>220074
Its funny when hispanics and jewish people are alt-right. Look at marco rubio the altright hates him. Once they get their numbers up they will purge the "others". >>220106
People miss the point.its about freewill. >>220084
Stop saying "we". You speak for you. Thats a big problem. Instead of saying "i" we say "we" in order to have wiggle room. I practice no sex before marriage and I am 30. I am traditional and live it. You guys try to make being trad a republican thing and its not. A trad is human and has different views on different things.
No, I don't agree. It works for some people and for others it does not. It works for my in-laws in Chile, it works for some people in Canada, and works for other people around the world. For some, it just doesn't.>>221389>Stop saying "we". You speak for you. Thats a big problem. Instead of saying "i" we say "we" in order to have wiggle room. I practice no sex before marriage and I am 30. I am traditional and live it. You guys try to make being trad a republican thing and its not. A trad is human and has different views on different things.
>Its funny when hispanics and jewish people are alt-right
as an hispanic, i'll clarify…. most hispanics and latinos ARE conservative. this has a lot to do with the fact that most of us are religious, its part of our culture. YES, hispanics and latinos believe in traditional values. homosexuality/interracial dating/abortion/seeking mental health instead of god/etc is frowned up in most of latin america (i dunno about spain, probably not). hispanics are conservative and old school as it gets.
… but altright? that's a completely different ballpark. altright and conservative are not the same thing. most hispanics/latinos probably have no fuckin idea what altright. traditional = traditional values. altright = people who make pepe the frog memes. that's just dumb as shit. you should know the difference between, since you know…
>Stop saying "we". You speak for you. Thats a big problem. Instead of saying "i" we say "we" in order to have wiggle room. I practice no sex before marriage and I am 30
saddest thing i've read in lolcow wew. no wonder you sound uptight as fuck for no reason
>>220084>There are women in this world, particularly in countries under Islamic rule, that are being oppressed but privileged feminists of the West refuse to acknowledge that
The vast majority of feminists acknowledge that, what you're claiming isn't a thing. See, this is why it's hard not to dismiss you people as idiots. You'll find something waaaay on the fringe that's not even a thing most feminists think or feel and act like it's a staple of feminism. It instantly proves you don't know what you're talking about and completely discredits you.
>You want people to stop grouping feminists together as disgusting losers? Stop demonizing us for having opposing views and maybe we’ll sympathize
Except that it goes beyond "having opposing views" for the people who preach the trad life, they want to force their world view on others. And like the typical anti-feminist, pretty much all the complaints you have about feminism as a whole apply to a fringe group that is far in the minority, and you're clearly totally ignorant to the issues in the West women are still facing (trafficking and child brides in America to name just a couple). All anyone in this thread is doing is making fun of how the high profile girls preaching this aren't even trad and pointing out why it's objectively a far worse economic decision than working if you're not rich… which isn't deniable. I don't see how that's "demonizing" you personally. You're the one making it about feminism in general. We're just shitting on trad girls, not every person who wants to be a housewife.
Ugh anon, I just read this
>found redpill shit on his laptop while borrowing it (by just typing "r" into the browser I wasn't snooping on him)
and I'm glad you're not with this piece of shit any longer, also not trying to be an asshole but srsly you honestly should love yourself, when I read that I got so sad for you. you don't have to apologize for anything, you know. okay, sorry.
/fellow anon who's been with guys who seemed nice but ended up being redpilled and abusive
… I already said it's fine to prefer biological children in the very first sentence of the post you replied to. You're arguing against a point I'm not even making, it's like you didn't even read the post. Again, my problem isn't with people who prefer biological children, it's with people who act like infertility is the worst thing a person can go through, go on about "ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO BE A PARENT" but would rather have no kids than adopt. Obviously, they don't want to be a parent that bad. I don't see why pointing this out is in any way self-righteous.
To answer your question- husband and I never want kids, so I have no dog in this fight at all.
>as if theyre such a vocal force and wrecking your lives.
Anon, we're on lolcow. That applies to almost everything discussed on this website.
>>221780>"ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO BE A PARENT" but would rather have no kids than adopt
By "be a parent" they mean conceive a child, watch as that child is birthed, experience everything with them from the moment they are born, have an innate connection that is totally unique that will last their entire life time. And also mean not having to pay thousands of dollars to buy another person's child, having to potentially share the love of "your" child with their actual parents, potentially have a child that will very visibly look like they are not your own, and all the other emotional difficulties that come with adoption.
You being childfree is predictable, you don't understand the perspective of wanting to create a child at all so you look at it like a uppity autist.
NTA but I agree with them 100%. I want kids pretty bad and if I couldn't have my own I would adopt. I can't understand anyone who would take childlessness over adoption in that scenario. At least don't whine about it if you do.
You're the one kinda sounding like "an uppity autist" tbh. You made it clear in your prior post that any answer they gave about whether or not they'd adopt would result in you using it to invalidate what they're saying.
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These are the true traditional women. All of them are pregnant/expecting and married. If they can find men in Arkansas why the fuck hasn't any of them got married yet
Shoe doesn't really count it's a K1 green card marriage but I'll give it to her
they only want to be traditional when it's beneficial to them and then cry about how "women want equality but only when it's beneficial to them!!"!
different sides of the same stick pretty much
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the problem with adoption is all the good white babies that have no issues get scooped up in a heartbeat so the only kids that are left are fucked up because crackhead momma dropped them on their head multiple times.
I do agree people spending 30k+ on fertility treatments is nuts. Just accept that you are fallow and spend the money on a decent life for a kid
I'm not sure if this is on topic for the thread, but don't want to risk derailing other threads. I've noticed an increase of women defending shitty men who hate them, alt right types. They obsess over everything other women do, if women look good but don't try pander to alt righters, just look good for themselves and enjoy being feminine then they're sluts. If women don't look feminine and no matter what their beliefs are, they're ugly dykes. It's the most public and obvious display of insecurity/self hatred I've seen in a while, I'm not sure whether to feel sorry for these women or hate them at this point.
I saw this article about women who are against the #metoo movement and believe men have the right to hit on women, are they so incredibly stupid that they really think that a bit of flirting is all that was happening in Hollywood? I'm torn between thinking they're just stupid and actually believe that or they just don't care, because it didn't happen to them and it gets them good girl points to the more powerful men in their industry.
Article I'm talking about https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/catherine-deneuve-insists-men-the-11829237
Scrolling through the thread for the first time in weeks and my old ass post apparently did get some love in the end.>>221569
I’m not an anti-feminist. I’m anti-bullshit, and it’s a fault of radical third-wavers that those two things have become pretty much synonymous these days. Within contexts wherein feminism is interchangeable with equalitarianism - that is, equality for both sexes, which is what it started out as, since back then those equal rights weren’t a thing - I consider myself a feminist. The current political climate where it’s about wearing vagina hats and discrediting male victims of rape and making everything about intersectionality rather than being a movements for women regardless of whatever - no thank you.
If what I said doesn’t apply to you then there’s no reason to be offended. There’s no doubt in my mind that true feminists that stay true to the core values rather than meaningless bullshit do exist and I have no issue with them - what I’m talking about are the people screeching the loudest who have become the face of third-wave feminism. Because they have. They are what many people associate with feminism and that’s a massive problem if you want to present it as something serious that focuses on the right things. The losers who everyone makes fun of aside, you also have the regurgitated nonsense being spouted about the wage gap and the like which has been disproven too many times to count.
It’s hardly ‘just on the fringe’ when it gets shouted and regurgitated to the point that it’s like a mantra - “women oppressed in Islam isn’t a thing, they’re empowered, the women who fled for their lives are problematic
because muh victim narrative uwu” while asslicking Sharia-gurgling psychos like Linda Sarsour and trying to brush over feminists in Islamic countries who remove their headscarves as a protest against the very real oppression they face despite risking literal death because it doesn’t suit the liberal feminist narrative. It’s not just on the fringe when it’s literally the only thing I see involving self-proclaimed western feminists and Islam. The people I’ve seen who have unabashedly spoken out against the evils of Islam and how women are oppressed under Islamic rule have all been conservatives.>>221389>Stop saying "we". You speak for you. Thats a big problem. Instead of saying "i" we say "we" in order to have wiggle room.
You’re absolutely right, if some of you like to run around screeching about women’s inability to do anything besides housework, aren’t grateful to the feminists who gave us equal rights and blame your failures on society then it’s true that my statement doesn’t apply to you. If those are things you personally do then suit yourself. That doesn’t mean it isn’t typical for trad women to condemn those sorts of practices since they would be revolting to any self-respecting woman.
>A trad is human and has different views on different things.
I wasn’t saying every single trad woman on the face of the earth thinks the exact same things. I made a generalizing statement explaining that most of the negative things many feminists claim are “trad” come from feminists themselves and the victimhood narrative that a lot of them are pushing.
>You guys try to make being trad a republican thing and its not.
I understand this might blow your mind but not everything in this world revolves around America. Where I’m from we have many political parties across a spectrum from left (socialism) to right (conservatism). Not everything is built around your crusty old two-party political system and the sooner you realize that, the better.
it's egalitarianism you idiot.
also feminism never started out egalitarian it just started out to bring upper class women to the same level as upper class men, since lower classes had no time to care about that and were more equal in terms of work load than the upper class where women were expected to be the virgin mary essentially.
feminism now should be replaced with egalitarianism since intersectional and lib fem are fast replacing traditional feminism, but are garbage.
fuck off if you don't know what you're talking about.