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I know this feel anon. People always talk about how males are more capable with maths and sciences it just makes me want to not even try.
god, anon, I feel you so hard
knowing that I could have been born larger, stronger, with a higher iq, but that I cant have those things just bc I'm a girl makes me feel so jealous and sad. Knowing that 99% of men will never take me seriously as a person and that at any time a guy could just murder me easily because I'm smaller and weaker (even though, like you, I'm fairly strong for a woman) just gives me this overwhelming feeling of despair and like I should just sudoku.
Try not to hate urself bc of sth u cannot change, though. I mean, there have been lots of brilliant female scientists- ada lovelace, marie curie, edith clark to name a few off the top of my head. artists, writers, and other ppl who have changed the world, ykno. just because we are smaller and have lower iq on average as a sex, it doesnt mean that no woman is capable of being strong or intelligent.
and for the bodies, yeah, it sucks, but even if we are smaller, we have some things men dont have, like being able to birth a child and feed it, or living for longer.
men are not better than women and you shouldnt lose hope and feel crap all the time just bc you werent born a man. you cant change it, so make the most of what you have.
I do really feel you though. i kind of feel this subconscious deep-down bitterness and hate for most guys bc i see them and wonder how my life could be if I'd been lucky and been born like that.
Also, there are lots of guys who are really jealous of women and think we have it better. Just think of trannies, or those wizchan MRA types. Maybe the grass is always greener, idk.
I'm not sure if this is a robot thread, not like it matters. But I agree to some extent with what you've written.
Men and women too, though a lot won't admit it, consider the female gender as inferior. I've experienced this many times on my skin. For instance, during some meetings, if I want to contribute to the conversation and with good arguments mind you, in 99% of those times I will be interrupted and talked over by another guy. Men speak considerably more and have this condescending way of talking to you as if you were a child even if they are wrong.
My parents gave me always the typical female chores such as cleaning, taking care of my sibling, cooking etc. because as a girl I was supposed to know that while my brother wasn't required to do that at all. I don't mind doing some housework but sometimes it can get overwhelming and I didn't realize that having a penis suddenly gives you the right to not contribute to the place you live in.
The worst part is that I freelance as a programmer and I had to actually create, develop and maintain a fake male profile because as a woman I got noticeably less contracts and when I did, they often used words like honey, sweetheart, and even a patronizing tone in a supposed professional context. With my male account, I got nothing but respectful and professional conduct.
Every hobby that you have, particularly if it's considered a male hobby, will be assumed that you have it to attract attention.
I don't think all women or even the majority of women are lower in iq than men, if you dig into history and I'm not talking about some feminist version of history, but just something you catch between the lines, you'll see a lot of women trying to break from their default roles, and it usually went bad for them since society (men) took all their efforts to impede their progress. A lot of women do care only about superficial things, but it's in no way different than guys that think only about clubbing, football or some other pleb subject.
We're lucky that as women you don't have to choose for a family lifestyle anymore, but juggling business and family seems a hard task and I think men have it easier because they can develop their skills even later in life and start a family while women have time working against them.
I could write a lot of things on this subject. Being a woman is depressing because the only time you're valued is when you're young and good looking. Old(er), and childless women are treated harshly.
Their are positive things to being a woman, no one will ask you to do heavy physical work or you don't have to drafted to war. But I'd still choose those negatives over being considered inferior.
I wish I was mentally unstable enough to go through ftm hormone therapy.
>>191930>Every hobby that you have, particularly if it's considered a male hobby, will be assumed that you have it to attract attention.
T H I S
FUCK, I don't care about the shit I do to get the attention of your dick. Half the time the dudes who like the same shit I do are /r9k/ tier dudes irl.
No? I don't think the majority of people hate women- Maybe men do, but men are assholes anyways, what don't they fucking hate? Most of what is being listed isn't that cut and dry. Men have historical brilliance- okay, sure, but now that we aren't being repressed and actively excluded from education, women are taking over. The gap in math abilities and iq is not consistent across all cultures, suggesting conflating factors, and the math thing only found is Western countries, and is shrinking with each generation. The physical diffrences are probably your most valid complaint, but here's a dirty little secret- historically and for most things it doesn't really matter. Men AND women built the great wall and when they died from over work their bodies were built into it. Men AND women worked on the great pyramids. Whole villages- men AND women and even children- would build grand cathedrals in Europe when they weren't farming. Right now in the middle east there are indentured slaves that work as brick makers, and men and women do the same jobs.
To me when I read complaints like this I just don't see what the bitch is.
I think it's partially a victim complex instilled in a lot of women by the current feminist narrative and partially reality since a lot of people who complain live in America where men do act like that, at least in certain places.
I'm a Slav and a lot of girls who go on work & travel trips to the US say that a lot of men there don't really view women as equals but as cheerleaders for their success and replacement mummies/prizes to be won for making it in life. Personally I haven't experienced anything like that myself, but I can attest to the fact that female programmers get less work.
1)Sensitivity is not necessarily a bad things and
2)If you're going to wish for something, why not wish that people stop being assholes with dumb assumptions instead?
I'm smart as fuck, and I'm actually recognized for it. The things I study don't attract men at all, and I'm capable of showing interest in things in a way that shows I'm genuine and not "doing it for attention".
I love women, I love being a woman, and I fucking love having both a clit and a vagina to make me feel good. Just imagine having nothing but a dick and being shamed for liking girly things. Being a man must suck.
Maybe you're just paranoid?>>191927>higher iq
spotted the robot
You can have the same thing with other women.
Don't go trans. If you're in it for social reasons and not mere body disphoria, it won't make you happy. It won't solve your issues. It'll just leave you with a mangled body.
We have not one but two female-oriented imageboards, we are calling society out on the "girls are bitches to each other", we are learning to accept that other fellow women are not the enemy.
Stick with us.
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At least try to pretend you're not a robot
This thread made me feel better about myself. This is the first time I've ever seen women admit that men are on average smarter, physically stronger, and less emotional/irrational.
I got to say that women still have it easier, because even if you're ugly, fat, unemployed, and won't do any housework, there's still tons of guys who will marry you and take care of you. You don't even have to do anything, women never have, that along with being biologically less intelligent is the real reason they barely made any historical accomplishments.
This thread made me realize, the only thing worse about being a male is that they have to get a job and put in a lot of effort to get sex, and if they don't get sex it makes them go crazy. Men have much higher sex drives that you can't even comprehend.
It's like females are prizes for financial/social success. Females made it that way, not men. Females are so picky because sex is their main asset, it's what all their worth is based off of.
Sometimes I wish I could be female, so I could be a good housewife and mother, I don't understand why a female would want to be anything else.
You wish to be female so you could be a good wife/mother? I wish to be male so i could defend myself physically and not be constantly belittled and doubted. You see the difference here?
By the way, you could always be a stay at home dad but i guess you only want to take care of children in a parralell world where you are a woman?
And you don't understand how a female would want something else? Would you want to be a stay at home dad and do nothing else? Why do you want to pursue your passions and be independent? Your answer to that is likely the same as a woman's answer to that. Women arent alien creatures incapable of ambition.
Oh, I'm from post-soviet Europe and wonder about that too. Never went to the US but from perusing sites for mentally ill men (bad sample I know) I concluded the "women are low IQ children who can't take responsibility" mentality is almost exclusively anglo tradition even though obviously in the West there seems to be more PC, affirmative action, non-traditional work divide, less pay gap and so on. But like, mysogynist Slavs don't infantilise women as a whole and instead hate them for being witches and/or whores and/or crazy but generally accept them as independent human beans, even if in reality they may be less independent than women in the US?
This objectively makes no fucking sense, but it's something I noticed and I see no reason why would I invent such a thing.
>>191961>not be constantly belittled and doubted.
You have to earn this, you can earn this as a woman, but you'll never get it by acting like a feminist. You'll earn it if you're actually as intelligent as men are, and you properly display that.
Most women are so stupid this would just come off as arrogance, and they're too stupid to realize they just look arrogant and foolish to men.
>By the way, you could always be a stay at home dad but i guess you only want to take care of children in a parralell world where you are a woman?
Extremely few women want a househusband. Well over 99% of women find it unacceptable if a man isn't making money, or has no plan to do so. On the other hand, the majority of men either don't care if their gf/wife makes no money, or they actually prefer it.
>Would you want to be a stay at home dad and do nothing else?
What you mean by "nothing else" is "not get a job/career".
The answer is yes, sounds great, '''only women are stupid enough to think that having a job is more "fulfilling" than being a housewife/mother'''. Unlike a woman or a child, I don't need other people constantly entertaining me, I have my own hobbies.
Might depend from country to country. I'm from the Balkans.
Some guys are normal and respectful, obviously, but the second you add alcohol or talk to older men, they will treat you like a pieace of meat or a complete retard. A lot of them are sexist af and don't hide it nor are they ashamed of it.
Also what >>191943
said about the cheerleader and prize part is true.
I agree. Physiologically we have nothing that is benefitting us. Everything about us body-wise is made to look "fertile" and i fucking hate it i don't want to be showcased as a breeding cow. But that's biology for you.>inb4 we create life
I don't know about you but i would much rather have the man's part in babymaking, aka the easy part. Pregnancy is actually the reason i don't want kids.
Seriously, women think these things because we've been told them for centuries - and no, that doesn't automatically mean they're true either.
There are statistics that show that women are treated like shit before we're even born. Parents treat male fetuses better in essentially every way and care for them more (and more carefully). Not to mention, that sex selective abortion exists and female infants are killed because they're female. Like, fuck…
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>>191979>As for me, I've never felt like I was inherently weaker or not as smart as a man.
Same, the only thing I was jealous about was men being able to pee standing up and not have to deal with shit like getting periods/pregnancy/giving birth/.
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>>191987>pushed the idea of women being illogical babies so much that i almost start to believe it
I was like that too but eventually, my critical sense got stronger than my low self esteem and I realized they're the stupid, emotional, and illogical ones.
Think of it rationally and you'll see they're wrong.>>191992
Me three. I'm socially retarded but never had an inferiority complex, probably because I grew up being told that intelligence is the most important characteristic a person (male or female) should have and on that I've always been above my peers.
I only had penis envy for a while because I was a sexual /d/eviant who liked the idea of being futanari
Well, you can just do sports with other women and there is quite a few intergender sports. Honestly, you might not ever be as strong or as capable as the best man, but you can better than 90% of men and any other woman. With my own experiences, I was fine and it didn't really cross my mind but I also had much more experience and training than most of the men I played with so I guess I don't have a very unbiased view.>>192007
That last sentence is completely accurate and not just with childhood either. Women learn to endure, men learn how to live - and I mean truly live.
It boggles my mind that men deny how traumatizing socialization can be, but if you ask them if they'd replace their childhood with the typical girl's child and they instantly say no, but then again, men are clueless as to what women really go through so it's not that surprising.
The strength thing is my main issue. It pisses me off when I hear guys laugh – not tease, but mock in a genuinely demeaning way – about how weak girls are and how "funny" it is. Just like men to feel pride in shit they didn't have to work for.>>192007
That last part of your post made me think of the movie Moonlight. There's a scene where the main character goes up to a classmate who had been harassing him and he breaks a chair over his head. You would never see that in a coming-of-age story about a girl. Girls learn to endure and cope, like you said.
>>192007>You don't learn to make yourself pretty, you're expected to prove yourself and become strong in body and mind.
When I was a little kid my dad treated me like a boy. I went fishing, only played baseball/softball and other sports, pretended to shave my face, (mostly) wore boy's clothing, and listened to him constantly berate my older sister for having feminine interests. He started slut shaming her when she was in middle school, and I remember him smashing a makeup palette that he caught us playing with and nearly beating her up because she wanted to go to a technical high school to get a hairdressing license. As soon as my interests diverted from his obsessions he began to harass me in a similar way as he did to my sister. I became a "miserable cunt," "stupid childish bitch," ect.
I don't regret being female because it's the way I was born and that's just how I'm going to live but I really wish I could have been raised in a household that treated women with more respect. To this day I can barely do anything feminine like wearing makeup or doing nice things to my hair, because I grew up thinking it was wrong or that I would be punished for it.
I just don't get why even in here right now we have women defending males when you dudes literally don't loss any chance to expose yourselves as the sociopathic self-deluded scum you actually are.
I truly don't get it. I guess it's true after all most of women are retarded.
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I'm sorry that happened to you anon, your dad sounds like a real fucked up psycho. I hope you can get to a point where you can be feminine comfortably.
Because they probably are.
This is definitely how I feel >>192022
. More male-male friendships, and definitely less worrying about aging, fertility, or getting married bullshit.
I'd have off'd myself by now if I was male living in today's society.
>>192036>Then at some point during my teens I discovered feminism which helped me cop the fuck on.
Same. I don't like how feminism turned out now, but back in 2011 when it just started to become popular on the internet (and wasn't crazy SJW shit yet) it was a very positive movement that helped me see things more clearly and get a grip.
I wish it was still the same, and focused more on the "removing the stigma around femininity". I think the popularity is what ruined it, it created this whole "opressed female" narrative that, although it's not entirely false, does instill a victim complex in a lot of women.
Feminism was never about "removing the stigma around femininity" wtf. Maybe it was with liberal feminism but with actual second wavers…yeah no.
It was about allowing women to do whatever the fuck they wanted to do, and critically analyzing every aspect of 'womanhood'. Feminism is inherently political and the ""oppressed female" narrative" has always existed, or else we wouldn't have fought for the right to vote or for women to be able to open their bank accounts or for marital rape to be illegal.
Yeah so liberal feminism. Second wavers still exist, and they're out there fighting against FGM and period stigma in other countries (like countries where women are forced into living in a hut w/o basic necessities during their period), child marriage and basic rights for women in the many places where they don't actually have them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of them but I commend them. It just seemed gross to me to reduce feminism to "oppressed female narrative".
Sage for sperging and derailing, sorry. Not going to make any more posts about this.
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i actually feel pretty good about being a woman and wouldn't change it for the world. who cares what people like this say and its really mostly men who spend too much time on the internet who genuinely believe women are less. theres many women in history who invented great shit that we use today but its just never mentioned because of the "women cant into science" meme. read up about women in the science field who invent shit and perhaps you'll feel better. in ancient paganism, women were seen as magical beings and slightly above men before christianity came along.
i know its hard for you, op, but you just have to shrug that shit off and maybe talk to people in real life instead of listening to losers from 4chan and reddit. being a woman is kick ass.
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I actually thought I was transgendered for a long time (way before it was a Tumblr trend, something I expressed a lot even as a kid), but after a lot of introspection and therapy, I realized I was just really envious of men and longed to be one because I hated the way I was treated as a woman to the point of not even being comfortable in my own skin.
In particular, I hate the difference between men and women in regards to sex. I hate that women have to be so guarded with their virginity and purity, that having too much sex means you're a whore, that you shouldn't come onto men too strong and instead let them chase you, etc. I want to have sex without all the stigma tied to it.
I guess that's the only thing that really bothers me. Maybe elsewhere it's not such a big deal, but living in the South, that mindset and the idea that women are weaker, need protecting, and should stay at home to raise kids still exists and it's hard to get away from. Wanting to fuck whoever I want, wanting to have a career, and maybe not even have kids at all makes me feel shitty and guilty.>>191973
My boyfriend is Russian, and from what I've experienced and seen there and from his accounts, there are some men who still see women as the weaker sex, but for the most part, it's more like there's just a big divide between them. There isn't a lot of understanding and common ground, and as my boyfriend put it, men and women see each other as practically two different species.
You're so right. I want to die every day. This is a nightmare I can't ever wake up from. From the day I was born, I was mutilated.
I can't talk to anyone because they are so brainwashed. My parents shamed me for expressing my feelings to them. My mom even said she would do it to me again.
I have a sister, and I love her so much, but in my heart there this part that kinda hates her because she got to be fully human and I'm just a chopped up piece of trash.
Being a woman is the shit if I came to think about it. Who tf cares if I'm weaker in the physical sense? We're not living in a society that needs to be strong physically to achieve success. If you know how to play the cards you were born with, you can go as far as you want. Is not easy, but is not easy for anyone regardless of their genitalia. Fuck that victim complex so popular within the sjw culture, we all know is shit anyway. Also for us as women, there are many laws that protect us and I think that somewhat compensate the fact we are weaker in the physical sense.
I understand the feeling of the OP though, because I was raised with that mentality. My mom always treated me like I was second class just because I was a girl, I wanted so bad to be a boy and despised anything feminine, just to receive acceptance and felt loved by my mom. It never fucking happened. Later I not only hated being a woman, I hated every single female out there. As well as I hated being harassed on the street, hated being deemed as a baby making vessel, hated how other women perceived me (you know, compete with one another because of looks), hated being short and weak (otherwise I would have changed my gender. Stupid, right?).
As many other anons here, I made amends with my own feminity when I stumble across feminism during my late teens. Read everything I could find about that shit. Exploring different ways to be a woman was like an epiphany to me. Dude you can both like "masculine" and "feminine" things with little to no backlash from society anymore. And having a vag doesn't determine your level of intelligence or how you can contribute to society.
Is true there are not as many female intellectual figures as there are male, but for this we must understand how society worked during those times. Dude, women weren't allowed to study. If something, rich families instructed girls to have some knowledge just in order to mantain entertained their husbands. You only learnt to read for reading the bible and shit. This was the model for so many years, women attending university is pretty much a recent phenomena. Don't get discouraged if there are more men than women doing cool stuff in books. This will change in the future ;). But the thing is that we have to work for it!
that's not true, they cut off part of their dicks to make them 'fit in' this was used for years as an excuse…
you may not think that the same standards apply but they do, they're just different.>>192090
no problem, anon. there really are people who care, good people. people who understand it's wrong, it's sad but don't worry, keep living. one day science will help you out if you're missing it that much. but you're still alive. always remember that. if you want to speak out, do so and you'll help other people, be the change etc. life is sad sometimes but it's really beautiful too.
it's only like 2 posts, plus i think it's a fair point not to wanna be a dude if your body gets disfigured at birth.
but i agree with your point too
this probably should have been posted on /g/ tbh.
true dat, it looks like it snowballed.
back on track though, sometimes i am grateful for the pressure to wear makeup as a female, i can fake being sick by not wearing makeup, or wearing it to look sick. i like wearing makeup personally, so i like being a woman, but i hate all the pressure. i do my shit for -me- if i'm lazy fuck everyone else's opinion. sometimes i feel like men can get away with that more easily, like their standards are there, but it's fine for them to say fuck it, while we get a bad rap for doing so.
nah, I'm a girl, I guess just all this internet propaganda abt how women r ~st00pid children waaah~ just got to me maybe idk. I do feel pretty dumb though but maybe I'm just stupid in general lol.
I wish I was at least passing as male so I could benefit from it tho. I mean I fucking hate men and have no male friends but I'd want to be one so I could fit in more at work etc etc
In saying that, I am physically stronger and bigger than plenty of guys I know. It makes me so mad to see all these males being born with basically free biological steroids and instead of using the natural ability they have to put on muscle etc they just laze around all day getting fatter and weaker every day, its such a waste
if it makes you feel any better, im >>191927
anon, and you just made me feel 100% better about being born a woman.
Not bc I agree with yr post, just bc you just demonstrated that all males are retarded manchildren who can only think about sex 100% of the time.
Everything men do, working, studying, art, whatever, all of it is just to get more women to stick their dick into, isn't it?
Ykno sometimes when I'm extra insecure, I'll go hang out on /r9k/ for a bit, and seeing how pathetic you guys are really makes me feel better about myself no offence
>>192112>Everything men do, working, studying, art, whatever, all of it is just to get more women to stick their dick into, isn't it?
Yeah. And they project this onto women to feel better about themselves.
I mean, the whole narrative is so contradictory>EVERYTHING women do is for male attention!>omg women get male attention just for existing!!! wish it was that easy for men!!!
I spend time on /ic/ and it's fucking weird how many men are obsessed with learning art just to get laid. Then the hating on women artists thread pops up like clockwork and it's all bitching and moaning about women draw worse women get more jobs women are pathetic, while in the same breath languishing for their dicks to get wet.
I would have a lot more sympathy for men if they didn't bring up circumcision and other factors that work against them whenever women want to talk about women's issues. They don't even bother to bridge the gap between women and men, and let other men shit on women. Lolcow isn't the best representation, but even in this thread you see a lot of femanons sympathizing with men.
Anyway, the only reasons I would consider becoming a man is for the faster muscle growth and the acceptableness of male ugliness.
>>192049>I realized I was just really envious of men and longed to be one because I hated the way I was treated as a woman to the point of not even being comfortable in my own skin.
This is what I imagine all the self-hating women in this thread have gone through also. Listen, you all need to stop browsing 4chan and reddit because they're just sausage parties for bitter men. If you genuinely believe that you're weaker, less intelligent, less creative or less capable just because you're a woman I'd love to slap you across the face. We get to live ONCE on earth and it's not even that long of an existence. Why are you letting these pieces of shit who are unhappy with their own lives dictate how you live yours?
Join some female only groups online and feel the benefit of being around other people who share your experiences as a woman instead of groups that put you down because they're upset about being 30 year old virgins.
Sounds silly but I joined a group on Facebook of women who just challenge the beauty ideals set my the media and build each other up. It's private and invite only so it's not flooded with sjws or anything (in fact it began when someone pm'd me after she saw my comment in another group complaning about sjws not being true feminists lol). We share articles relating to women's achievements in science, literature and sports, we discuss beauty related things like alternatives to makeup, shampoo and tampons, we describe our experiences with catcalling or unprofessional men in the workplace, we talk about our favourite female-positive music, we talk about dangerous beauty trends and how we can avoid them… On occasion, we'll post a photo of ourselves and we compliment each other because fuck, women need that after getting so much hate from men, other women and themselves.
If you can't find a group like that, start your own. Do what the mod from our group did and just message someone out of the blue about starting your own group and recruit some like-minded people as mods. I've made friends for life thanks to that group and I've never been more comfortable as a woman.
My fb feed used to be full of nasty shit from the "lad bible", "pranks" where men molest women, videos of fights or beheadings or animal abuse which fb refuse to take down, advertisements for tea that gives you dihorrea… now it's full of nice things like reviews for period cups, photos of women showing off their achievements, reviews for feminist children's books, stories of women kicking ass in the workplace…
Hope you all learn to love yourselves.
As always I think it's a blend of nature and nurture. Now society is changing in a way that encourages women to do better than they had previously in science and math, but there is a lot of scientific evidence showing that sex hormones affect how the brain functions and that there are differences in both structure and function between male and female brains.
It makes sense because if you look at the evolution of society, the gender roles were clearly defined out of necessity, both male and female fulfilling a particular evolutionary niche. The men were protectors and providers and the women raised the children and took care of the household and nursed the sick and elderly. The skills needed to be good at these different things means the genders evolved differently over time. Now technology and capitalism have progressed to the point that most of what was once necessary and difficult woman's work has been destroyed, replaced by machines and corporations.
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>>192151>I'm actually vaguely uncomfortable with being called a girl/woman because I think it only describes half of who I am…
Well… What else are people supposed to call you? 'Man' doesn't seem very descriptive a word to me either. He could be a doctor or a serial killer for all we know. What you have between your legs isn't supposed to define you, just like your name, but people need those words in life to, you know… know what to say to attract your attention and stuff.
I've never had male envy because insults have never stopped me and I love beating the odds and spiting people who hate me for no reason. It tickles my titties so good.
When I was five I used to listen to random politicians in the US call us terrorists and 'bad people' on TV. I literally had bombs falling around me when I was 5 because some guy out there didn't like some criminals from my country and decided that we are clearly all the same so he went and started tossing bombs here and there for fun. Does Bill Clinton calling me a terrorist mean I am one? No.
Likewise, women weren't allowed to go to school in my country back in the day. Therefore, there weren't any female scientists. Does there not being any female scientists make women inherently stupid? No.
Does it make women incompetent? No. My great-grandmother couldn't read or write, but she still ran an estate with a gun in her waistband and organised an entire resistance movement in her village to fight Nazis, and hid Jews in bales of hay and granaries. Meanwhile my great-granddad was told to shut up and churn butter because he was shit with people and always got into fights.
The most decorated woman in the world is from here, she dressed up as a man and went to war because fuck what anyone says about women being weak. A good chunk of my country's army is women nowadays. Meanwhile men sit at home and laugh at how 'weak' they are whenever they come on TV whilst gorging on beef patties with garlic, drinking rakija and being unemployed. They're so hung up on how things are 'supposed to be' because 'that's how we've always done it' that they don't even think about changing their tune and trying a different approach - to life in general, so they end up sad, lonely and fat while the world keeps spinning and the sun keeps shining all the same.
Before you just accept random people's statements at face value, you first need to look at who's saying them and potential reasons why. Especially if they're inflammatory comments that tar half of the world's population with the same brush. Surely if women were that incompetent the world would have collapsed many times over by now.
Ultimately, women aren't the ones killing, raping, chopping their dicks off in fits of rage and blowing themselves up. So I like to think we're at least doing something right.
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>>192156>femininity and masculinity are on a one dimensional spectrum meme
Feminine guys are not the same as girls and masculine girls are not the same as guys.
I don't consider vidya as a hobby more like something to kill time or to distract myself after a long day at work. I don't watch anime. What I mean by typically male hobbies is doing programming even in spare time, robotics, solving mathematical problems for fun and such. No need to be so condescending.
I think when you get into those areas that isn't really an issue.
I can only speak for mathematics as a university student, but for the most part they seem pretty genderblind.
Maybe but there were a couple of times threads were anons said how a girl joined their entirely male <insert hobby> club and how it ruined their experience. Perhaps hobbyist won't say anything in my face but I always worry that I won't be considered part of the pack. I know that I can do those things alone and I do, but sometimes there are some events and I would like to go there and not seem like I'm trying to attract attention. Plus, I get heatenings when there are only men and no women or very small number.
To add, I had a bad experience in my childhood when I wanted to join a chess club as a 8yo kid. I went there, there were tables where you practice with other kids and nobody wanted to practice with me even though there was at least one that was available. I attended the club for several days hoping to get a match but I was basically ignored and sat alone at the table. Person in charge that was leading the club told me that I would be better of playing with barbies at home. He didn't say it in a mean manner but it still felt like a slap in my face. I practiced like mad at home on my pc (thanks parents) and managed to beat every single boy later on. However, I felt so disgusted that day that I will never forget that horrible feeling I had. It's that sort of discrimination that I talk about. The exclusive male hobby club. And sometimes it sucks when I can't share an interest with others without being anonymous of course and pretending to be a guy.
Your english is fucking adorable. You're from eastern Europe aren't you? I can't identify your native language
Sage for language student autism
So trannies are all conditioned by society to act in ways that get them ostracized, ridiculed and abused not because they were born with a personality and often body as well that didn't match their sexual organs?
How does that make any sense? The social conditioning they receive all their lives should reliably be pressuring them into adhering to the gender norm for their sex, and yet these people end up failing to put up with the pressure to adhere to the norm and being miserable to the point that they think their only option is to change their sexual organs so they can be the other gender. Attention whores not withstanding, you can't deny that this is the case. Even from a young age boys and girls engage in different forms of play. Girls play with dolls and boys play with legos and trucks. Trannies play with the toys of the gender they end up identifying with. Furthermore there are plenty of studies and anecdotal reports from FTM trannies who start testosterone that suggest strongly that testosterone greatly improves the brain's visual-spatial cognitive capacities. It reduces anxiety and increases stress tolerance and assertiveness. Men and women are all born with both testosterone and estrogen and they have varying levels of sex hormones. These levels reliably predict certain personality traits.
>>192184> especially since it's not the boys who are doing this, it's their shit parents raising them this way.
Exactly. During my first student job, my boss or bosses, a married couple were thinking what to buy for their, I think 4 or 5yo daughter, and the mother said how she would buy her one of those kids' playhouse where her daughter will have plastic kitchen, utensils and even a mini vacuum cleaner so she can learn her 'responsibilities' from early on because she is a girl after all. I had a wtf moment because why would you, especially as a woman yourself, give your kid a frickin mini fake vacuum cleaner for her bday to teach her "main" responsibilities? I understand teaching kids to participate in house chores but c'mmon this was something out of the 19th century.
> They say stuff about girl's being their kid's "little girlfriend" and it's fucking gross.
Yeah I know exactly what you mean. Happened a lot and it did feel gross. They always try to pair you with someone. Tbh it happens even now. Sometimes, during my uni years if I went to study with a guy because he asked me to explain something or because I was asked to give lesson by another guy, if someone found out, and for some odd reason everyone knew everything, I was suddenly paired with that person. And now considering that I work with guys mostly I had to invent a long distance relationship just because they wouldn't stop setting me with semi blind dates.
I envy you that your male friends considered you their own. As soon as I entered teen years, every male friend started acting completely different towards me and I didn't like it one bit.
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I really have sympathy for you there, sounds terrible to not be able to share your passion for something with others.
As a guy though, it really does happen that girls come in and "ruin" it.
Usually (if it's not an attentionwhore) it's not really the fault of the girl though, but rather that half the group consists of people who turn into horny retards as soon as a girl shows up (especially a girl with a similar interests).
For it to work you gotta be lucky that those retards aren't in the group and you gotta not be an attentionwhore, but actually care about the hobby. Then there is no issue in my experience.
Men in good condition are brutal, they're aggressive, they're mean, they have over 10x more testosterone than you.
Aside from the wealthy, it's a cold world for men, they become hardened by that, it's something you whores will never understand. There's a reason they don't respect you.
Women who don't know anything about being a man wanting to become men, it's a joke.>>192156>may actually do more damage to those who are traditionally feminine and just want less pressure to adhere to the male gender role of being a successful wage slave
One of the greatest tricks in history is convincing women that they'd rather be a wage slave than a wife/mother.
The way to trick women into doing something is to make them believe they came up with the idea themselves.
>>192163>Well… What else are people supposed to call you?
Yes I mentioned I tick female on forms for a reason. It is a personal reaction that I do not share with people in my day to day. And ofc I don't expect people to read my thoughts and know exactly what kind of lady I am. Though, the more people know me the less likely they use very gendered descriptors for me…
Though, I am a bit bitter from wondering if people think I'm smart as a person or smart as a woman.
All things considered, I think I'd rather be a woman. Being a man has it's perks, but I'd probably be happier and wouldn't have spent most of my teenage years alone. It feels like girls have more people willing to support them, always have a friend who listens to them when they're down, while I'd just be considered weak, weird, a doormat and/or a faggot if I have a submissive or emotional personality, or if I'm having difficulty to socialize. But probably I'm wrong and happiness boils down to how loving your family is, mental health, attractiveness, supporting friends… all things that don't require a gender. Guess the grass is always greener on the other side.
>all the revolutionary males in science
That's just because women had to be doing constant housework and couldn't do research
>men are smarter and more logical
Not true. People in general are illogical.
Yeah, this one sucks, it must be horrible to have your chances to be assaulted in a dark street permanently high. It's not a intrinsic problem with being a female, though, it's more of a problem of society not making it's citizens safe. If nobody had to deal with rape/assault, being weaker than men wouldn't be an issue at all. So I don't think it qualifies as male envy.
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>>192265>>192265>UGH how could these MEN take what we struggle with and minimalize it while exaggerating their problems? I'm going to counter that by minimalizing what men struggle with and exaggerating what problems women have, THAT WILL TEACH THOSE DUMB MEN
t. stupid cunt
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also>thinking those points were exaggerated
This feeling is why i wish it were socially acceptable to suggest not all transmen are legitimately trans.
I went through a 5 year long phase feeling like this, thinking i was supposed to be a guy and thinking i was trans because it wasn't acceptable for me to talk about how i felt.
I'm over it now and i'm more upset over the fact that it even matters when we're all human beings.
Women are the superior gender anyway and men are threatened by this fact. Just thinking that way makes me feel less shitty about being a woman and being so marginalized especially today.
I mean think about it, theres enough sperm in spermbanks right now that if all men spontaneously died mankind could prevail and continue. If all the women died, there goes humanity, because we don't have a way of growing humans without a womb.
It's joked about a lot in culture but it's highly likely that there's a possible future like this, where men are killed or just used to harvest their little sperms and women live on and raise men to not be retarded.
I know i sound like a crazy tumblr sjw but i'll add that i'm married and just fantasizing a world that doesn't hate me because I happened to be born without a penis. I don't think there's anything wrong with fantasizing a world like that.
Same, and yeah women were marginalized for a long time but even today 95% of violent crimes are committed by men, sometimes I think we'd be better of without them.
Of course some robot is gonna read this and assume most women are man-hating feminazis, but so what? Most of them fantasize about a world without women, replaced by submissive sex bots and lab grown uterus.. well fuck off, we have a right to retaliate with our own fantasies too.
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Can't we all just get along
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>>192269>raise men to not be retarded.
- Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.
- Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.
- Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.
- 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.
Broken families create dysfunctional children? You don't say. It's not comparable to the scenario >>192285
I agree that people who butt into unrelated discussions to bitch about themselves are stupid, but I think you're being a bit silly there, both genders have pretty major issues, making it out like only one has problems is stupid.
I think the whining about sex thing is more of an online thing than anything men really think is an issue though.
There's pretty clearly people in this thread who feel shitty about their gender, and your post really doesn't do anything but confirm that for them, which I think is a shitty thing to do, especially when it's completely unnecessary.
I don't think I said anywhere in my post that you were exaggerating anything or that we should ignore anything, I was saying the exact opposite, that you were being silly by dismissing all the issues that men do deal with and pretending they don't exist.
You sound awfully paranoid, and seriously hypocritical.
If the best defence you have is "I bet you're a guy", you probably should rethink your worldview by the way.
>>192265>20 year old girls having issues with their age for being "too old" since the perfect image of a woman is constantly pushed to be 16 years old, after 25 you're basically over
This so much too be honest. I'm just 21 yo and fucking terrified of aging and I know many of my friends are too… There are some dudes our age who are dating freaking 15 yo, who am I supposed to date than?!
sage for blogpost
I'm the first poster, not the second, and I still don't see how anything I said makes me a robot.
Are you legitimately this paranoid, or just baiting?
I used to hate myself for being a woman when I was in high school because I stumbled on MRA/redpill shit on youtube. I think all these men(and some women) telling me I was responsible for all the evil in the world appealed to my inferiority complex. Even though I got over it I did get into the whole nonbinary trend because ngl, it felt so nice to think that I could be "freed" from being a woman.
I guess I have no problems with myself as a woman anymore, nor with other women. In fact, I prefer to be around women. It just bothers me that showing too much emotion or acting like anything other than a traditional woman is going to have me labled as crazy. I act like a bitch to people who talk down to me, not because I'm trying to "smash teh patriarchy" or anything, but because I was raised in a pretty liberal family and my parents never treated me that way. I'm thankful for it tbh
I'm also a big believer in open carry for the sake of female empowerment lmao>>192139>stop browsing 4chan and reddit because they're just sausage parties for bitter men
I disagree. Browsing 4chan really helped me to take misogynistic propaganda less seriously. I used to get bothered as fuck by it.
Agreed so hard about the facebook feed stuff though.
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I can't wrap my head around a woman actually letting MRA/redpill/r9k bullshit get into their heads and fuck with them and their self-esteem. The most bottom tier loser scum of the male gender influencing your thoughts is just baffling.
I used to be one of those 'feminism is crazy and dumb, men need to be defended and stop being demonized!' bitches until it sunk in what fucking garbage those exact same men are. Going on /r9k back in the day really hit it home how awful and pathetic they are. They hate women because they have a chip on their shoulder against the entire world and women are just a convenient punching bag, and those circlejerks are the only way they can make themselves feel better about themselves. You shouldn't be jealous of them, you should feel bad for them. This whole redpill crap has just shown what sensitive whiners men truly are.
If you feel bad for being born a woman, think you're inferior because of your gender, let men putting women down to feel good about themselves hurt you and make you doubt yourself, you need to step the fuck away from the Internet because you are easily brainwashed and can't handle it.
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In my opinion the reason why we have this subconscious hate toward women is because of the stigma that has been in place way back then. Women were only seen as house wives, less competent, and not as intelligent as men. There are still people who thing this for some reason, and it really gets me mad. Women have the same capabilities as men, but its because of the superiority complex they were raised with.
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Are you me? I used to be pretty right wing and felt that feminists were whiny, now I guess I'm a feminist and think that alt-right women are whiny and have an inferiority complex. The idea of being "inferior" due to difference in physiology is so fucking retarded to me, sure women are weaker physically, but women do have a lot of traits men could only dream of. In the end, the cards were handed out pretty evenly. I'll list a few out for you self-loathing legbeards.
What women are empirically superior in>being able to see more colors and differentiate detail>multitasking>better at handling pain( evolution caused this, childbirth pain is so strong, human evolution had to make women be able to withstand more pain)>live longer and have a lot better immune systems>better at handling stress (again, childbirth and having to multitask the tribe and children)>a better sense of smell>better recall skills>superior communication skills(evolution, women taught other women to survive and how to raise kids, so the female brain evolved to be able to communicate and read people better)
You self hating legbeards need to stop reading retarded Redpill shit and /r9k/, tough luck, people are different. >weeweww but I want to be able to LIFT BIG THINGS OFF GROUND AND PUT THEM DOWN SO I CAN PROVE ALL THE HATERS WRONG
I wonder if the same goes for men too. They're starting to learn that they're not as important as they think they are and women don't rely on them for everything like they have in the past because of that stigma you're talking about and it infuriates them but there's nothing they can do about it.
You have men that are mature and it's not even a thought to be bitter and a little bitch about it…and then you have the redpill. That's how you know you've got a good man, when that shit isn't even a blip on his radar.
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>>192665>Are you me? I used to be pretty right wing and felt that feminists were whiny, now I guess I'm a feminist and think that alt-right women are whiny and have an inferiority complex.
Lol damn, yep that's is me exactly.
It's funny that crazy tumblr feminists were the ones always being made fun of, and so men retaliated by fighting fire with fire and becoming even more insane and spreading their cancer everywhere and never shutting the fuck up with their non-stop bitching. They're exactly
like the SJWs they love to complain about so much.
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i never really had the inferiority complex to men, i think its more of how you react to the men in my opinion. Yes i agree redpill/r9k/ people really need to get the stick out there ass and the stigma is there. I think its how you really react to them, i mean they're not right to think they're better than you just based on sex. There are jobs only women can do and jobs men do that women are much better at. Like therapy, its easier for women to sympathize and understand emotions.
>>192672>There are jobs only women can do and jobs men do that women are much better at. Like therapy, its easier for women to sympathize and understand emotions.
A female psychologist wouldn't be able to understand any of the issues that men face. A typical male 4chan user would rip apart a female psychologist, they're almost all stupid feminists.
- Over 80% of suicides are men
- Over 80% of the homeless are men
- The majority of men have nothing left for them in western society
Men are overwhelmingly mistreated by the family courts. Women are rewarded for divorce, anytime they feel like it they could divorce, and almost certainly get custody of the children, half the man's money/assets, alimony, and child support.
They could ruin his entire life and everything he worked for instantly, and they are given incentive to do it.
Why do you think men don't want to get married or have children anymore? Why do you think men are dropping out of society, and instead playing video games and masturbating to porn?
Feminism has completely destroyed the family structure, and most of society itself. We have generations of males "raised" by single mothers who turn out terrible because females are incapable of properly raising men, their sons almost always turn out horribly wrong, at least in their adolescence.
Women can only destroy society for so long. You won't get any sympathy from me when you're a trainwreck because you're over 30 with no children, and no man with financial security wants to marry you.
The men with financial security, the only ones who you find acceptable to mate with, won't be choosing your 30+ year old rotten cunt, you probably already have STDs from your long past sexual history, you're incapable of monogamy, and your babies would probably come out retarded. You made your bed and you can lie in it.
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I've become so numb, I can't feel you there
Become so tired, so much more aware
By becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you
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Tldr: crawling in my skin
I mean speaking from a females standpoint, this is true.
Men always get the shit end of things, but then again this is a website full of women like this so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ What do you expect.
sigh, suk mi
On women's prolixity
The same theory explains that while men were hunting, women would gather to prepare food and take care of the children, which gave them more leisure to socialize and talk.
Later, when groups became sedentary and the economy started diversifying, women would go to the market to exchange what their household had produced against food and other kinds of goods. Women with developped negotiation skills were able to bring more food home. Live long and prosper.
Another theory explains that because of the complications associated with the childbearing process, it was essential for young women to communicate their feminine concerns and learn good practices from experienced women. It would increase their chances of survival."https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4641904/http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2010/gender-stress.aspxhttp://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/why-is-human-childbirth-so-painful/1https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677686/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093177/
And for everyone else, http://www.icr.org/article/darwins-teaching-womens-inferiority/
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Why do you think men don't want to get married or have children anymore? Why do you think men are dropping out of society, and instead playing video games and masturbating to porn?
Apparently because they're fucking bitches who can't handle anything difficult in life?
If men's response to the difficulties of the court system and divorce is to because loser NEETs, play games, and masturbate then they are fucking pathetic. Ever hear the saying 'man up'?
Also the losers you're describing are like the new generation of 18-28 year old who have probably never been married or even engaged and are just using that as an excuse for their pathetic behavior. If you're saying men are literally so terrified at the idea
of getting divorced then they become these losers right out of high school and willingly put themselves into a wasted life of loneliness than they're even more pathetic than we thought. Keep making excuses.
"Just man up", "You're a virgin", "You're pathetic", "You're a loser", etc.
Yeah that's not gonna work. The reality is that men with financial security who also
want to get married and have children are only going to get harder to find.
All the "good men" really are disappearing, that means your choices are decreasing, and a lot of women who want a marriage and kids are never going to get it. You can blame feminism for this.
Men never wanted this. Feminism won't allow men to have families anymore, and without that civilization will destroy itself if given enough time.
Uh the good men aren't disappearing, you would know that if you didn't judge all of society from your paranoid redpill echo chamber. That's something you learn when you work with the public and have to talk with them about their personal lives and relationships.
Real men are not scared of marriage, don't insult your own gender because that's all you do when you go on these 'women have no one to blame but themselves for driving men away!' rants. Don't hold all men to the standard you think exists because of scary stories you've read about evil wimmin on the Internet. Grow up.
Women can take care of themselves and use gullible men for money when we hit hard times.
Nobody cares what inferior low evolutionary chain men think. You are worth less than shit.
What I'm saying is true and you know it. Keep replying and trying to deny it but you have nothing to really say because you know it's true.
I genuinely hope you get out of this redpill crap and manage to find some happiness with someone.
>>192731> It's a necessary step if we're to escape death from overpopulation.
Sure, except only whites (and Japanese) act like how you described.
Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, Chinese, and Arabs, will still reproduce like crazy. Either because their cultures don't have feminism, or because they barely function above the level of a gorilla.
Just to give you some info you didn't know, and an idea of how the world's population is currently distributed: There's 1 billion people in China, and 1 billion people in India. There's only 300 million in the US. (1 billion is 1000 million)
What you're describing won't solve over-population, it will just kill off white people. Have fun in a civilization ran by blacks, mestizos, or arabs, if you want to know how that will turn out, you can look at Detroit, Mexico and the Middle East.
Letting females decide anything serious was the ultimate mistake, it is the most major event that caused western civilization to degrade.
I hate dumb bitches so much, it's like men have to fight with children in the real world, over real world serious issues, because our ancestors decided to let children have voting rights.
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>>192731>It's a necessary step if we're to escape death from overpopulation.
NEETs and hikis aren't numerous enough to have any effect on population growth. That's being fueled by places that don't really have these problems.>>192727
Pretty much. The majority of men are disposable. The idea of one man & one woman pairing off for life is kind of ridiculous and has no basis in nature.
>>192741>NEETs and hikis aren't numerous enough to have any effect on population growth.
As a matter of fact, it is in Japan.
Decreasing birth rates is a very serious issue in Japan, it's highly publicized. If you read about it you'll know that NEET/hikikomori/redpill and their mentality is a major cause.
The same thing is happening in the west, it's just that Japan is more advanced, they're ahead of their time, and it's more like they're just dying off, rather than being replaced by foreigners.
The world will continue to develop. Once China and India and Africa go from developing to developed civilizations, it will happen to them too.
Money is no doubt part of the human mating ritual. We even have a nuptial gift to seal a marriage that is expensive. Men have financial domination fetishes or fetishes for paying for sex, men use displays of wealth to attract women. Automation and increased competition in the labor market is going to make a large number of men unable to use wealth to attract women and they will choose to check out.
Some beta males in wealthier countries will compensate by using the internet to date women from poorer countries who want to immigrate, some will just get over their own feelings of inferiority and manage to get a gf who is willing to settle, but far more of them will just feel too ashamed and will build up delusional defense mechanisms that attack women and keep them from ever attracting someone.
Ugly or fat or average women will keep telling themselves they'll meet a great guy who will make twice as much as she does so she can take off to be with the children when they're young and who isn't some combo of depressed, misogynistic, abusive, controlling, or totally beta and submissive and then they'll run out of time, their eggs will go autistic and they'll either be forced into having retarded babies with some asshole in their 30's or waiting too long and never having children.
Less and less people will reproduce and we will be saved from destruction from the threat of overpopulation. Feminism and beta virgins are part of God's answer and it's only a matter of time until they spreads across the entire world.
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I don't understand your reasoning. There are so many people in this world who are "worth" something to someone, whether it's one person or an entire society, whose value is not reliant on their ability to bed someone.
I don't understand where some people get off being upset that their partner turned out to be a piece of shit. Sometimes that has to do with making adjustments to what you'd consider priorities in your significant other.
This is a little off tangent. but I feel like some of these discussions about biological inequality between sexes is viewed through the narrow lense of heterosexuality. The outdated sexual dynamics that people rely on to define the worth of a partner gets tossed on its head when there is no dick to claim king. Then you must try to apply those standards to same sex couples and stumble over it.
I don't think this is a thorough version of my opinion, and it is a bit reductive, but I think that we could all benefit from not subscribing to such black and white thinking. Although sex is admittedly a huge part of our identities and how they are shaped, we are more than just our combined behaviors of gender expression and sexuality.
It's just a bummer to not be amazed by how complex and limitless you are as a human being, and reducing it to the value of how many holes you've cum into, and how you were able to control those holes. That obsession is pathetic and worthless, but you, as a human being, are always potentially invaluable. Not trying to pep talk you.
Fuck my life
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I don't care about sex or relationships anymore, I'm 28 and never had both of them and never will. I tried making something out of my life but failed every time because I'm just a retarded waste of resources and space. Sage for blogpost
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>>192750>Once India and Africa go from developing to developed civilizations
Pic related, it's you waiting for that to happen.
Otherwise, your post is surprisingly accurate of what's happening, I just don't like it happening. I'm surprised a female understands things this well.
meh, with the internet logging and sharing the entire knowledge of humanity's billions, we're soon going to make intelligence obsolete. We have 8 billion people all working to increase humanity's knowledge. There are literally millions of people with genius level IQs who compete to make breakthroughs which contribute to society. But once nature has been tamed, what do you do then? We're practically there already. Average people feel like they can't make contributions that really improve people's lives through technological innovation. We have a culture of meaningless consumerism, everyone's intellect just goes towards figuring out how to market the next big fad that will add small amounts of meaningless pleasure to the person's life, just one more quick fix before they crave another.
Machines will continue to compensate for the failings of stupid people and allow them to live happy lives, intelligent people will be left looking for meaningful problems to solve with their intellect and finding nothing as AI become more adept at solving these problems than they are. The average person continuing to increase in intelligence would be an increasing existential threat because we know there are certain technologies that can literally wipe out all life on the planet, and the odds that someone with the ability to manufacture these technologies and the motive and ability to use them will arise in the general population grows larger the smarter the general population becomes. I'm fine with stupid people reproducing.
>>192781>Machines will continue to compensate for the failings of stupid people and allow them to live happy lives, intelligent people will be left looking for meaningful problems to solve with their intellect and finding nothing as AI become more adept at solving these problems than they are.
Exactly what I worry about, ngl.
I feel sorry for people like that because fleshing out a career and being recognized for accomplishing anything is a tough enough task without the added worry that if what they're doing is actually meaningful.
I don't agree with the robot in the slightest here, don't get me wrong, but the issues with Japans birthrate are more widespread than just economic.
There's a huge amount of mental illness and suicide amongst young people, and the whole "herbivore men" thing is somewhat of an issue over there, though the shit that's causing that is so, so much more extreme than what happens in the west that any comparison is just stupid.
The idea that if they don't get exceptional grades and get into top level tertiary education that they're failures is a pretty big issue, and their education system encourages that, putting a stupid amount of stress on kids.
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>robots and redpillers waving their dicks on the internet and sperging out about male supremacy
>laughing at women 24/7 and cherrypick examples of 'female stupidity' from facebook to make themselves feel better
>yet it takes ONE female anon saying she doesn't envy men for robots to go full damage control and start telling them they're wrong, writing novels about the doom of mankind from lack of fanny and crying about loneliness and depression online
>meanwhile women have endured misogynistic shit since the 1800s and still have the mental strength to carry on like normal folk
>meanwhile your ancestors fought in wars whilst your fat, ugly arse sits in mammy's basement and and cries about how girls don't want to fuck you and therefore your life has no meaning.
These are the people you envy, ladies
These are the people who view you as incompetent 'fuckholes' and tell you to make them a sandwich, presumably because their mothers never taught them how to make one themselves
ITT: Delusional wimminz.
Pathetic. Just pathetic.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
>>192837>>meanwhile your ancestors fought in wars whilst your fat, ugly arse sits in mammy's basement and and cries about how girls don't want to fuck you and therefore your life has no meaning.
This is what I hate about robots. I don't necessarily object to the idea that many aspects of the past were better, yeah I know, better medical technology and all of that, but the fact is people back then couldn't afford to isolate and atomize themselves to the same degree we can today, and as a result, there were societal advantages.
But what irks me about robots is how they act like men are immune from this degeneration. Yes. Women would be disgusted with how a lot of us have turned out these days, but so would your fucking great-great-great-great grandfather. He would think you were physically and mentally weak, spineless, cowardly, incapable of taking any hardship, a manbaby, or in the case of those who chase women into their late 20s/early 30s, a loser who couldn't raise a proper family.
But for some reason it's just women who are the focus of this degeneration, and fat neckbeards scoffing palm oil stuffed shit foods down their mouths are somehow as good as their male ancestors were? Don't make me laugh!
Agreed. I feel like misogyny is on the rise too. Or maybe not on the rise, but more people were secretly misogynist than you would think, and now they just aren't hiding it so it feels more common.
It does make me wish I was a man. But I know that's stupid to wish for because it will never happen. Or wish I could just go through with killing myself soon. My body disgusts me because it's just a constant reminder that I'm a woman and I have inferiority written all over me. Even my father thinks women are worth nothing more than maids or sex dolls. If he thinks that way I wonder why he even let me be born lmao.
Like trust me I didn't want this, pal. Why bring someone into this world whose so worthless? Should've aborted.
What? I was >>205996
Sorry I didn't put them in the same post? I had already posted once and then wanted to know what they meant by "pathetic." It's not like I didn't sage. Jesus Christ.
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I wish every robot could hear this. I used to feel bad for them at one point, but I don't anymore. Anyone who can complain about not getting a gf in one thread and then talk about how they hate all women in another thread should just drop dead.
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What you're describing as "misogyny" is just nature, it's the default. Feminism is a perversion of nature.
Women are less intelligent, physically weaker, and more emotional. These are scientifically verifiable facts.
Patriarchal societies were for women's own good, women were happier in patriarchal societies than they are today, society would decline if you let women do whatever they want, or gave them political power, which is exactly what happened.
bad in society today can partially be traced back to feminism, particularly the destruction of the family structure. Feminism is the reason we have:
- Over 50% divorce rates
- Rampant cheating
- Hatred of God
- People not getting married or having kids until their 30s (big reason why there's so many retarded kids)
- Men not getting married at all, or becoming NEETs, because they're afraid of getting their life ruined in a divorce
- Immigrants flooding western countries because women voted in favor of that
- A nation being raised by single mothers, which are overwhelmingly more likely to raise criminals
- Moral decay and degeneracy in general
If you've ever wondered why men are so mad at feminism, this is why.
To an average white man, he sees most women as basically children. This is why they don't hold you as accountable for your actions, this is why they coddle you, they think you're mentally like big children, and you are.
The average woman is basically retarded compared to the average man. Men see feminism as children acting out irrationally, it's a destructive childish ideology, that goes against every ounce of reason, intellect, and rationale that man was given.
You claim to be oppressed over the silliest things, while ignoring the homeless man. Men make up over 80% of the homeless, men make up over 80% of suicides, men are systematically discriminated against through affirmative action and divorce courts, men have it way harder, you call the homeless man privileged, but you're oppressed as a woman because of sexualized video games and "manspreading". You've ran out of reasons to claim you're oppressed as women, so you just invented more, and they've gotten increasingly more ridiculous.
This is why men hate feminists.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
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>>206026>men are discriminated against through divorce courts
if you think women are huge children who can't live without a man and need to stay in the home and have children then why shouldn't they get alimony and custody? If you think women aren't as capable of taking care of themselves as men then why SHOULDN'T they be in shelters instead of out on the streets, since men can clearly handle it better? If women are more emotional, how come men kill themselves more? relly make u think
>men make up over 80% of suicides
how can we push it up to 100%
the fucking irony that they complain about privileged women ignoring real hardship but their examples of EVERYTHING BAD IN SOCIETY is fucking
- Over 50% divorce rates
- Rampant cheating
- Hatred of God
- People not getting married or having kids until their 30s (big reason why there's so many retarded kids)
- Men not getting married at all, or becoming NEETs, because they're afraid of getting their life ruined in a divorce
- Immigrants flooding western countries because women voted in favor of that
- A nation being raised by single mothers, which are overwhelmingly more likely to raise criminals
- Moral decay and degeneracy in general
do you even fucking suffering anon?
lmaoooo this shit again. Feel better now bitch? I'm glad you've found feminism so you can blame literally all of your problems on it and never hold yourself accountable.
Thanks for reminding me that men aren't shit. Fuck em.
>>206107>Men are so intelligent and logical, I guess thats why they keep offing themselves instead of expressing their emotions eh?
That's only because men tend to go for heights or guns, which are substantially more lethal than pills.
>Perhaps in a matriarchal society there would be less sex crimes, pedophilia and violence, since these crimes are more often commited by men.
The lowest crime rates and the highest crime rates exist in highly patriarchal countries (Japan and South Africa, respectively), and technically the highest sex-crime rate exists in Sweden.
I think that linear matriarchy-patriarchy scale is insufficient to divide human societies. There's a third character that needs introduction: a neuterarchy, so to speak, of some form or another. Where it may be men, or women, or neither or both, who are in charge.
>>206107>I think there would be less war
Women were never on the front lines in any serious sense, but that does not mean they were not "pro war". It's like ya'll have forgotten about the White Feather. This is more of a reflection to do with the fact women are more important to a society (much easier to replace a generation with 10 men and 100 women than the inverse) and the fact they are physically weaker rather than any innate "peacefulness".
>Perhaps a matriarchal society would snuff out the idea that men are not allowed to show their feelings, an idea perpetuated by other men.
Women often express they want men to express their feelings, but the truth is generally not really from personal experience. Maybe that's what you truly want as an individual, but unless something serious has happened (e.g. death in the family) women typically will lose respect for you over that.
It's funny how the things are. I'm the opposite.
Sometimes I really like born as woman. And I'm a straight man (not gay, trans or anything like that).
I think the woman's life is most easy and quiet than the men.
I have 2 sisters and I'm envious of their lives, everything here is always on my back, I have to work, fix many things in house and etc. The only things they do is wash the dishes and clean when my mother can't.
And u talk about men are always considered better.
Well, this is true in many occasions but in school women usually seen as smart, organized, responsible, always do their homework and are exemplary pupils while men tend to be seen as the student who will cheat on a test, a "bully guy", when he is smart is a "nerd loser".
And about being "always good", it's not a really good thing, there's lot of pression for u to be good in everything, know how to do everything and when u don't know or can't do something, you're a failure, you aren't "man enough" and etc.
Man's life is not simple and good as you think you are.
As probably the woman's life is not simple as I think it is.
Sorry for some grammatical errors.
English isn't my first language.
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Do you also wish for instinctual fear of being attacked whenever you're alone? Do you also wish for being talked down to just because people
-see boobs and a pretty face and assume you're stupid?
A woman's life is not just cute domestic activities. That's a stupid ass assumption. Women work too and have all the work-related problems you have. I assure you we don't only do the fucking dishes you idiot.
I would give up all the """privileges""" (where?) I get from being a woman if it meant I could go to work and do the work I was hired to do without anyone bothering me with shitty sexist comments and disgusting looks. If I could go to work and automatically be taken seriously without having to work ten times as hard as a man just to prove that I'm not some incompetent bimbo who is just there to make some extra spending money for Sephora trips.
Men ARE always considered better, more competent, more intelligent, more capable. That's the biggest privilege in the fucking first world.
I have this fear too.
I'm just feel safe when I have a gun with me.
And sorry, I don't understand the second part of sentence.>>207837
If I understood correctly, you told me to stop complaining, right?
Well, I'm not complaining but I just talk the man's life isn't this paradise how some women describe here. The way they talk, it's like we have everything we want just because we are men. lol>>207865
I don't know if you are in PMS or you're just a feminst but calm down, lady.
Don't need all this savagery.
We can sit and talk politely like two anons.>>207849
Maybe it's hard to me as a man see this priveleges because we have to work very hard to get a job or everything else. Things don't fall from the sky to us.
Including this part>Men ARE always considered better, more competent, more intelligent, more capable
Seriously, here are the complete opposite, my sisters always considered smart, responsible, organized than me.
"omg, you have a beautiful handwriting, it's like a handwriting's girl."
And some people talk about the "man friendship".
Well, I'll be very honest, you overrated this.
I don't know how is a friendship between two women but the men's friendship ins't always good and very strong how you talked, principally when have a girl in the group, the men started act like a dick to compete for the woman. It's not a woman's fault, it's natural of man's nature to want to be the alpha and conquer the woman, so he'll attack the others men to achieve this. Probably the women here already saw some situation like that.
There're men who change a lot when a woman is around. >>207902
Well, I don't know if you are being ironic, I hope not lol
but thank you very much for the feedback, I'm trying to improve my english.
My first language is italian.
>>207926>disregarding someone's anger directed towards you as PMS or feminism
Because this's usually the main causes of so much anger.
>a man's desire to conquer women is a male problem because it ruins your male friendships
Yes. This is what I said.
>Also, have you ever considered the possibility that your sisters might actually be smarter, more responsible and more organized than you and that's why they're praised more often than you?
Yes, my older sister is.
She's awesome, read and study a lot.
But thank you to bring this logic to the table, now it's just you apply this logic when someone say the men are privileged because we're considered better.
>>207920>Things don't fall from the sky to us.
Things don't fall out of the sky for women either. I worked very hard to get my job, and I still have to face sexist comments from my boss. I am on the ball all the time, while some of my male coworkers don't do shit, but of course they get more respect than I do. When I worked in customer service I legitimately had men on the phone ask to speak to another man, without even letting me try to help them first. Because they didn't think I would be ABLE to help them. Because women couldn't POSSIBLY know what they're talking about when it comes to tech. I should just get back in the kitchen instead.
But I am from the US, it sounds like the climate in Italy(?) is much different. So whatever.
If you were intelligent and level-headed, you would realize that there's 1000 men who understand technological subjects for every 1 woman that does.
99% of programmers are men, the 1% of female programmers are mostly diversity hires that don't actually contribute.
I wouldn't want to discuss a tech-support issue with a woman, or work with women in general, because women are overwhelmingly dumber than men, it's frustrating how stupid they are 99% of the time. To most men, talking to most women is actually like talking to someone mildly retarded. They have to bring everything down a level.
Instead of women blaming themselves for having such a pathetic reputation, and proving to men that you're different, you throw a hissy fit like this and claim everything is unfair. If you thought men didn't respect you before, they certainly won't respect you with this reaction.
You know what happens when a man complains like this? He's called a pussy, implied that he's acting like a woman, like an irrational whiny child.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
I'm guessing you are unemployed or have a minimun wage job, no older than 25 and you currently live at home, am i correct?
Because you sure sound like it
Like most women, you aren't smart enough to understand that intelligence and academic/financial success aren't necessarily mutual. Your entire world view revolves around money.
At least you didn't mention college, nothing worse than low-IQ women that go to college and then get a superiority complex from it, thinking they are smarter than "uneducated" people. It is painfully ironic when these women have useless meme degrees and $50,000 of debt, but still think they're smarter.
There is homeless bums that are 1000x more intelligent than some of these college-educated women.
Unlike women, I don't expect sympathy from anyone on Earth, I expect the worst possible out of everyone. If I was dying on the street, I wouldn't expect a single person on Earth to care.
Cause I'm a male, women have the expectation that everyone should care about them though, and they're so coddled by society they're basically right.
What happens when someone is mean to women though, or doesn't treat them like a princess? Women don't have experience with this like almost all men do, so they can't handle it properly, the reaction is usually like an infant throwing a temper tantrum. They come up with crazy feminist conspiracy theories, and completely silly complaints and accusations.
Women were happier in true patriarchal societies, the more feminist a society becomes, the more unhappy women become. Before you just had to be a good wife and mother, now women are expected to pretend to be men and enter the workforce. It has destabilized western countries, and made things much worse for women.
So if a hyper intelligent bum like you with an IQ of 130 or so, is too stupid to hold down a decent job or get an actual education, how come evil, dumb infantile women can?
Its so funny, its always losers like you boasting about men's superior intelligence not actual scientists, doctors etc, because they dont have such an infantile black and white view of the world, and understand that women and men are more alike than they are different, and that we all are just people.
Women tend to mostly be of average intelligence, very few being stupid or highly intelligent, where as men are more scattered, either being very smart or borderline retarded. And, no offence but it doesnt take a genius to know which side of the bell curve you belong on.
>>207991>Women don't have experience with this like almost all men do
d e l u s i o n. I've never been treated like a princess, and asking for basic respect in my workplace is not asking to be treated like a princess. It's asking to be treated like everyone else. I still do my job regardless, and then come complain on here. Not a huge deal.
But seriously, can you guys come up with new talking points before you come here? You can scroll up and see a few posts exactly like yours. At least bring something new to the table of women-hate. You can't even comprehend how stale this is to us. I'm begging you, man. Get creative.
>>207992>So if a hyper intelligent bum like you with an IQ of 130 or so, is too stupid to hold down a decent job or get an actual education, how come evil, dumb infantile women can?
I choose not to even try.
>it doesnt take a genius to know which side of the bell curve you belong on.
No matter how much you hate me, you know that I'm not on low-end of the bell curve. If I was, I wouldn't have the mental capability of finding this website and writing in proper English.
So you're saying I'm on the high end, and I literally am, have had 2 professionally administered IQ tests, I have a 128 IQ, that is the top 3% of the population. If you don't understand that 128 is very high above average, it's because you believe people claiming their IQ from one of the 1000s of un-standardized online IQ tests.>>207994>It's asking to be treated like everyone else
Respect is earned, I guess women don't learn this, and expect to be given respect for nothing.
If you expect to be respected, you are an entitled princess.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
>>207995>Respect is earned
And I do my best to earn it. By doing my job and doing it right.
>bragging about your IQ
That's how you know someone doesn't have a high IQ. Nobody asked and nobody cares, bb.
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>>207995>only 128 iq
One of the reasons which I love working with highly intelligent men is that they don't give a fuck about your gender at all and is very pleasant to work along with them. Although it was a bit difficult when I was still and undergrad, there were some single minded folks at uní that automatically labeled women as stupid. It was a quite linear and simple thinking. Also the more attractive the woman, the more stupid she supposedly was.
Also, ladies, don't you find amusing how the robot in the thread contradicts himself?
>I don't expect validation unlike females hurr durr >My IQ is over 120 (validate my 'smartness' pls)
It's clearly in which side of the bell this fella leans KEK.
This robot is so boring. Here I was hoping he would elaborate on different points or at least deepen the thoughts already given. And instead he's only here projecting his self hatred.
"People who boast about their IQ are losers." - Stephen Hawking
I unironically agree with this. Every single time I've met a man who says the kind of shit this robot is saying, he clings desperately to his IQ and how much more ~intelligent and rational~ he is than women in order to make himself feel superior because he fears he isn't. It's very transparent.
Usually they are quite insecure and don't have much going for themselves. But #notall I suppose.
I really doubt about this but I'll trust in your word. Keep working hard to get respect, ignoring the negative comments and showing you are better than men in your company.
The other anon have a point when he say about "don't be a pussy".
>I should just get back in the kitchen instead. But I am from the US, it sounds like the climate in Italy(?) is much different. So whatever.
That's an interesting subject.
I confess I don't know very well the US culture but the question is "Who said that only women cook?"
Probably in the US men don't know how to cook and is completely ignorant in kitchen but this isn't a world culture, if we look to the history of countries with a very rich food culture as Italy, Spain, Portugal, Brazil, France… we'll see a lot of recipes created by men and family restaurants with the husband and wife cooking together…
This is a good subject to we talk about, the "men in the kitchen" is a problem only in US?
Here my friends know how to cook and others men (and we are not gay kek).
I'm not this guy btw >>207982
>>208046> "men in the kitchen" is a problem only in US?
Men can't cook in American but all the top chefs are men. It's the same as many craft/creative skills. Women pursue it widely as a hobby and might earn from it, but when men take it up then it suddenly becomes a respectable career. See also fine art, photography, raising children (aka teaching), fashion design and hairdressing.
Obviously things are improving a bit, such as it's slightly more common to have women as heads of schools or lecturers now, but this is literally what the glass ceiling is.
It's not so much that people believe men can't cook. It's a sexist stereotype about women. Just like the old days, women should be in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, catering to a man. Because that's all she's good for.
Maybe in Italy they don't say it that way, but in America if a woman dare disagree with a man on just about any topic, at least once in her life she'll be told "get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich."
It's basically saying women have no worth outside of the home. And barely any in it, actually.
Yeah I find kind of stupid the whole American "shut up and make a sammich" thing. In my place that'd be considered the attitude of an entitled bratty person and that is frowned upon. If one of my brothers ever said that to any person, my parents would be like don't be a lazy ass and go make it yourself. Only rich people act that way, and I don't think those people would be as bratty as what American men sound like.
I've never lived in the US and tbh it sounds horrifying to live there.
What do you mean with "macho men"?
Is it something correlated with Village People and gay stuff?
I hope not kek
Well, italian people are pretty conservative, I'm a "white, catholic, cis, male" but it doesn't mean we don't know how to cook, do some housework or we'll treat women badly.>>208056>Just like the old days, women should be in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, catering to a man. Because that's all she's good for.
And on other hand, man have to get up early and leave to work, with sun or rain, and generally a very hard work, and get all the money to put food on the table.
It wasn't like: men lived in a paradise, with money to change car every year, make barbecue with friends while his wife was locked on the basement with the children.
Do not view the history with an ideological vision, my lady, this makes you see the history with a lot of distortion and in small parts.
>Maybe in Italy they don't say it that way
Here women generally cook every day to the family too… but it's automatically, we don't say to go and make a sandwich.
And I really don't understand how much discussion have about cook, make a good recipes and meal it's a very beautiful way of caring for the family, for people you love. This don't need to be demonized.
Intead of fighting, you (woman) could propose that family cook together, put the kids to make something and make the kitchen moment as a "family moment".>>208075
Where are you from?
I'm not viewing history with an ideological vision. I was explaining the mindset that people have when they say things like that.
Fortunately it is no longer like that. Those of us who have no interest in husband or children aren't forced into having one. And we can work for ourselves. I wasn't demonizing housewives, I was demonizing the type of men who think women are ONLY capable of being housewives.
maybe I'm biased as a woman, but I think men and women are much better off now than when it was forced woman=housewife/man=breadwinner.
it seems like that bred contempt of the woman from the man and frustration in the woman because the man wouldn't/couldn't do any housework, and then there's no "greater meaning" to her life other than being a mother and a wife. the major difference/issue was that the wife was stuck and couldn't really leave because of how society was set up, and that they could end up stuck with abusive and even rapist husbands because people didn't believe in marital rape and thought it was okay to smack your wife around if she "misbehaved" (guess there was also the "wife with a frying pan" thing too but it's hard to argue women were better off being essentially objects or second-class citizens.)
there are really people (mostly men but some less common women too) who see us as "a waste" if we aren't barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, that's not an exaggeration, and it's disgusting to be reduced to that. "a waste."
I'm Italian-American and there's still sexist stuff against women from the old country way of thinking. I'm not sure it's a generational thing or regional, but it exists.
samefag but to answer the op question, yes, I've had male envy. sometimes I feel frustrated, angry, and appalled by how women have been treated, and how they are treated. I used to consider myself genderfluid/non-binary/whatever and it partially stemmed out of a desire to be rid of what people judge me as for being female, besides fascination with androgyny and legit dysphoria. being seen as male or androgynous makes people act differently around you, sometimes more afraid or respectful, although when I was seen as male people were a little more rude to me about my clumsiness.
I'm mostly comfortable with my gender now, but it does pop out again when I watch male rock stars who can just have a masculine bravado and prance around shirtless on stage, and I wish I could do that as a performer. it wouldn't be considered the same as a woman. when I walk alone and strange men make me feel nervous. when people seem to just think I'm a weirdo or talk down to me for being in a male-dominated field.
maybe I just wish I could shapeshift sometimes and that we destroyed gender. I don't know it could disappear because people think they're better than others because of what's between their legs, but I'm just tired of being treated like I'm worth less or ~so different~ and wish we were all genderless or could just not give a shit about what someone's gender is. not sexless. just rid of sexism.
>>208103>the major difference/issue was that the wife was stuck and couldn't really leave because of how society was set up
This happened at most for 40 years.
Maybe something like 1900~1940.
It is very important to know how the economy and organization of the past decades was, knowing this will see that the history was not simply women at home and men outside.
Especially looking the organization before and after the industrial revolution.
>and that they could end up stuck with abusive and even rapist husbands because people didn't believe in marital rape and thought it was okay to smack your wife around if she "misbehaved" (guess there was also the "wife with a frying pan" thing too but it's hard to argue women were better off being essentially objects or second-class citizens.)
This isn't true at all.
Maybe we can say that if we go back to pagan time of Ancient Rome.
And TODAY women are objects and they put themselves as sexual objects, influenced by sexual liberation, this isn't caused by the patriarchal structure.>>208107>Every Italian family with a ~hard working man~ has a devoted woman that keeps things from falling apart.
I don't know why you put hard working man between ~ but I completely agree with that. Women are essential to family health.
>This country has been turned into shit by men and would have turned into Ethiopia long ago if it wasn't for Italian women.
Are you talking about any particular episode?
Because it's false.
Or I'll say you're right and wrong.
Italy was destroyed by progressist and liberal ideas created by men but how exactly italian women save the country? kek
The italian women now is claming for "ethiopians" aka rapefugees.>>208114
How you imagine a society with a childfree way of life?
I'm very curious about how do you conjecture the formation of a society with the values that you defend. Things like the economy, heritages, traditions… these things that the Greek philosophers and thinkers of ancient Rome and medieval Europe have conjectured to create almost everything we have today.
>>208123>How you imagine a society with a childfree way of life?
I don't. People are always going to have children. I would argue that the majority of people in society get married and have children eventually. My personal decision to not have children doesn't affect anybody but me, and I'm not defending any values here other than freedom of choice.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. There is never going to be a time when 'childfree' becomes the default of society, nor do I think that SHOULD happen. All I'm saying is, everybody deserves the choice. And I'm thankful to have it.
I gave you a chance, I really did. I wanted to think you were reasonable, but I can see from the way you speak about women that you see us as a hivemind and seem to be both sexist and ahistorical.
Divorce was difficult before that too because it used to be based on class, not love, and women were property taken from the father's family to the husband's. It went way after the Romans, and I'm speaking globally and of Western civilization.
Why is being sexually open or sexy making ourselves objects? Because we can't see the person being sexual as a person, not just as sex on legs. Which is ridiculous. Someone like David Beckham can be seen as a sex icon without being just a sex object. We started to be openly sexual in the way men are allowed to, and we get criticized, but we are reserved and enforced boundaries, but are called prudes.
Why are we incapable of seeing a sexual person as more than an _object_?
Italian (and French) men are notorious for grabbing women and taking advantage of us, wanna keep on about how bad those damn Ethiopians and women are? You're blinded by whatever you've ingested from society or the Internet to keep yourself feeling alright in being complacent in inequality.
I've watched all the lovely Italian men in my family sit on their asses while the women all cook my whole life. :^) Your experience is not what most women experience.
Wanna talk about sexism? How about chopping off a clitoris and sewing the vagina shut, or the old tradition of having blood-stained bedsheets, women not enjoying and having painful sex, and how we were doing this in Western fuckin civilization for A G E S. Talk about how medical science didn't study or believe in many facets of female sexual pleasure until the last hundred years (and there were other older, non-Western civilizations, such as Hindu beliefs, which recognized it.)
idec I'm sort of talking out of my ass but your blinders are on so high, read something else besides /r/theredpill or /pol/ or /r9k/ and listen to what women outside of your circle have to say. because some of us will pretend we're fine to keep you comfortable or so you don't tell us our experience didn't happen. I'm not telling you yours didn't, but that you have blinders on and don't seem to listen to women. I listen to men, and most reasonable men who can see outside their own point of view recognize we aren't lying.
the world, including Italy, including the US and UK, does not work on a scale the way your life does, and the experience of thousands of women attests to that. I've had a relatively good life and not experienced too much in the way of sexism compared to other women, but I have read my history and listened to others.
if you can debate without resorting to /pol/ buzzwords and talking points about the liberal decline of society because women don't want to be considered second-class citizens anymore>>207995
also, everyone deserves respect unless proven otherwise. it's basic human decency. we _should_ care if people are dying on the side of the road, because it's ethically wrong to ignore it in most systems of ethics people follow. being ~realistic~ or ~how it is for men~ doesn't make it morally correct or something we should strive for.
finding a website is easily achievable by anyone with an average IQ. I surfed the web when I was a kid.
don't brag about IQ online, you can't prove it on an anon imageboard and it just makes you look like a tool
Don't waste your virtual breath anon, the kinds of men that would sympathetically see reason would never go looking for it on an image board. He's just here to reaffirm his own beliefs, stroke his ego and get a look of how to argue against any others.
On the topic of men from Italian families, in my personal experience there is always an outward charade of equality/chivalry/humanism, but with a hidden core of backwards beliefs like homophobia and sexism. Maybe it's the Catholicism? I'm trying to not let it color how I see a whole country or people I have just met though and it's not like this isn't found in any other nationality but it's hard not to become wary.
>>208123>this isn't caused by the patriarchal structure.
oh you sweet naïve child, you need to read some more
>Things like the economy, heritages, traditions… these things that the Greek philosophers and thinkers of ancient Rome and medieval Europe have conjectured to create almost everything we have today.
Again, you need to read some more. I don't say this to offend but you are very misguided and misinformed.
"the economy" as we know it didn't exist until the industrial revolution, heritage is what made you a filthy peasant who worked the field 6 days per week and some other dude a rich aristocrat who lived off your work, tradition determined you had a king instead of a president, and above all else, Roman society had one configuration while Greek had another and "medieval europe" was just a period - all of them different from each other.
And most important of all: women did not "stay at home while the men worked". The family structure as you conceptualize it is extremely new, until a century ago children were treated like retarded mini-adults and expected to mostly look after themselves (or were cared for by a servant if you were rich.) If you were poor your wife was working just like you 24/7, and if you were rich neither of you worked.
My point is - times change, traditions go away. It's silly to pick and choose which you want to keep - slavery was also considered natural, for once.
Go read a book.
And you anons arguing with him, don't bother. He's uneducated and unaware of that, you're not going to change his mind because he believes he knows what he's talking about
>>208186>The family structure as you conceptualize it is extremely new
Not that anon, but this is a half-truth. Family structure as in wife stays at home and does nothing is new, yes. Extended-family as a sort of mini-nation/clan unto itself, sticking together and protecting and advancing its own its own interests is as old as Sumer, perhaps older.
>"the economy" as we know it didn't exist until the industrial revolution
Well yes, just like the digital automation economy as we know it didn't exist until 20 years ago or so.
Tautology. Unless you're saying there wasn't an economy in pre-industrial times at all?
>"the economy" as we know it didn't exist until the industrial revolution, heritage is what made you a filthy peasant who worked the field 6 days per week and some other dude a rich aristocrat who lived off your work, tradition determined you had a king instead of a president, and above all else, Roman society had one configuration while Greek had another and "medieval europe" was just a period - all of them different from each other.
Well no. Not really. Classical antiquity is linked to the Medieval World and the Medieval World is linked to the Early-Modern World and the Early-Modern World is linked to our Modern World through a variety of different channels of continuity: Roman Law, Greek thought and art, Christianity etc.
>If you were poor your wife was working just like you 24/7
There was actually a division of labor within subsistence farming and household tasks, women didn't 1:1 do the work that men did. Men tended to take on more strength-intensive labor-tasks for example.
>slavery was also considered natural
Slavery was considered natural by the vast majority of humans for 99.9% of recorded history. Which is why the obsession with the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade is so puzzling, and a classic case of purposefully selective outrage.
>>208132>Italian (and French) men are notorious for grabbing women and taking advantage of us
Yeah, I completely disagree with this.
Italian men (French men barely ever do this) may be annoyingly assertive and follow you around a piazza, but you can safely tell them to "fuck off" and they'll leave you alone without resorting to calling you a "whore" or whatever.
Are you an actual Southern European girl btw? or an American? Because I am Southern European. And I feel safer in my hometown than I do in the metropolitan multicultural city I live now. Certainly I feel safer than I do when I lived in South London, which is extremely uh "diverse".
Italian men are annoying, but it's rare they are actually violent.
>and there were other older, non-Western civilizations, such as Hindu beliefs, which recognized it.
Anon you are freaking delusional if you think being a woman in even pre-Mughal India was better than in the West.
It's fine to have issues with how women were treated in the past, but this fucking weird foreigner-worship where you behave like European men have treated women the worst out of all groups is just ahistorical garbage. Stop it.
This is a huge problem.
>People are always going to have children. I would argue that the majority of people in society get married and have children eventually.
Well, you should look to statistic, my lady.
You'll see a very low birth rate and the forecast of getting lower and lower. Of course, this isn't exclusively a women fault. A childfree is becoming the default.
>My personal decision to not have children doesn't affect anybody but me
There isn't true. You is a member of society, so your actions have a impact in society.
>and I'm not defending any values here other than freedom of choice.
No, anon, there's a lot of values than "freedom of choice" behind that, materialism, for example.
>I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Well,I wanted to get to the point where we would talk about the fact that society is much more than "ME", how much it transcends our selfishness but whatever, nevermind.>>208132
It's funny how you say I'm ahistorical, /pol/, /r9k… but only said things that appear to have been copied and pasted from buzzfeed articles. Some books of Regine Pernoud will make you better.
>Divorce was difficult before that too because it used to be based on class
Divorce WAS NEVER based on class, stop with this marxist point of view of "class' war". Divorce was based in MORAL, most specifically, the christian values.
Let's pick a example that refutes what you said.
Henry VIII, he wanted to divorce, the Catholic Church denied, what he did?
He kill almost all catholics of england and founded the Anglican Church.
In your "classic logic" he would get the divorce for being high class and a man.
>and women were property taken from the father's family to the husband's.
You're right, it really happened but not that way
and not just with women.
They were "business marriages", like: "I have son, you have a daughter, let's marry our children to seal our business". Generally this happened with deals involving land.
>Why is being sexually open or sexy making ourselves objects? Because we can't see the person being sexual as a person, not just as sex on legs. Which is ridiculous
>Why are we incapable of seeing a sexual person as more than an _object_?
Do you know this is a biological thing, right?
due to the five senses we have, when we see or feel something that is good, the brain receive a stimulus, the neurotransmitters begin to "shake" and release the hormones of euphoria, satisfaction …
It's the samething when we see and eat a very tasty food.
When people half-naked make sexy poses for a photo, they know that they will excite who sees, that is the purpose of the photo.
Or do you think a playboy bunny takes a picture in a sexy position just because it's cute? It's obviously they use a certain pose because they know this will excite men and achieve the goal.
And it's funny how you're defending this because
this is the greatest way to affirm the "Society's Beauty Standards"
>Italian (and French) men are notorious for grabbing women and taking advantage of us
Oh yes, what's the advantage we take of women?
Seriously, if we put on a scale who did more for whom, the things would not be good for you.
>I've watched all the lovely Italian men in my family sit on their asses while the women all cook my whole life. :^) Your experience is not what most women experience.
And tell me one thing: What's this italian men of your family do all the day?
I have the slight impression that they worked for you to have what to eat, what to wear and where to live and today you come and talk about them in that negative way as if they were real social monsters.
it is surprising that what they say about feminist ingratitude is true.
>How about chopping off a clitoris and sewing the vagina shut
This was never a western habit.
>or the old tradition of having blood-stained bedsheets, women not enjoying and having painful sex, and how we were doing this in Western fuckin civilization for A G E S
Did you realize that the only thing you're doing is repeating Enlightenment nonsense?
What's next, will you say that in the Middle Ages they thought women had no soul?
>the world, including Italy, including the US and UK, does not work on a scale the way your life does>if you can debate without resorting to /pol/ buzzwords and talking points about the liberal decline of society because women don't want to be considered second-class citizens anymore
Yes. This is why I'm only tell about history books and not /pol/ things.
I repeat: read books of history.
I'll tell you a very good one, it was written by a WOMAN who is one of the most respected historians, she devoted her time to writing exclusively about the condition of women.
"Women in the Days of the Cathedrals - Régine Pernoud"
And women was never considered second-class in the Middle Age.
btw I'm not a /pol/ guy, I don't have patience for that board and I don't know /r9k/.
I lost my sides with your post. Are you kidding, right?
You just REPEAT what I said before. lol
Just read this post >>208123
and what I posted: "It is very important to know how the economy and organization of the past decades was, knowing this will see that the history was not simply women at home and men outside.
Especially looking the organization before and after the industrial revolution."
>heritage is what made you a filthy peasant who worked the field 6 days per week and some other dude a rich aristocrat who lived off your work
I need to study more? lol
Look at your definition of heritage. This is completely pathetic.
Do you know the best part of when someone tells you to study?
It is when the person who said this repeats common sense that has no historiographic basis. You have only demonstrated that I definitely never study the sociology of the middle ages and how social organization was.
>Roman society had one configuration while Greek had another and "medieval europe" was just a period - all of them different from each other.
I don't say the opposite but if you don't know how they had certain similarities and thought the same thing about innumerable points or if you don't know or if you do not know that even the middle age having some changes, Roman law, Greek philosophy and Christian morality was the basis of all governments until 1500, you definitely have to study more.
>And most important of all: women did not "stay at home while the men worked". The family structure as you conceptualize it is extremely new,
Again. read my other post and you will see me speaking exactly this.
And this refute completely the logic present in this thread like: "omg women always locked in the basement while men enjoy the life outside, this happened by A G E S in western".
I read a lot and discover the history is not like feminist talked. There has never been a conspiracy against women.
But you have read more about historical political organization. You don't know absolutely nothing about roman and greek society to talk about.
>>208224>Which is why the obsession with the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade is so puzzling, and a classic case of purposefully selective outrage.
Thanks for clarifying/expanding on what I said, I'm not exactly well versed in history itself. >>208251
You're still a retard, although apparently a well read one. That was my first post on this thread and I only brought those things up to tell you your opinions are a product of your time and traditions shouldn't be accepted just because (which you implied). Are you fond of the pre-Socratics too?
You're absolutely biased when you cling to one specific tradition/way of thinking but accept development and change in all others. It truly takes some next level of dumb to know as much as you apparently do and still hold the opinions you do kek, at least I have the excuse of being a 20 years old undergrad
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>>208274>Are you fond of the pre-Socratics too?
I'm not him but perhaps I can do my best to answer this.
The idea behind perennial traditionalism, which is what that anon seems to be alluding to, is that it captures values and ideas that have been constant throughout a particular race/group/humanity's history, in spite huge differences in form.
I'll give you an example: The idea that families are the basic unit of all society was common to pagan Greeks and Romans and its common to a lot of contemporary conservatives too, in spite of the significant differences in manifestation and form both types of family had/have - to expand on this, in spite of whites always being largely monogamous people (even pre-Christianity), and non-whites being largely polygamous - both groups emphasized the importance of family as this basic unit of all polities/societies.
To a traditionalist, this suggests there's some sort of underlying, revealed wisdom given that these concepts are so omnipresent regardless of time or (to some extent) place.
Perennial ideas are assumed to have some sort of inherent value precisely because they're so perennial. To draw upon another example, consider how fecundity and big, strong families have always been promoted, especially among the elite (see: Augustus).
Different cultures give different reasons for this (God/your ancestors are pleased by it, for example), but ultimate it is because they promote a level of adaptivity/evolutionary fitness at a group
If one group simply breeds a whole lot more of its best, it has an inherent advantage versus another group with low levels of fecundity. That's why virtually every religion has some variation of "be fruitful and multiply". It's biological. The "strong" side of the equation, when talking about big families is also useful because it provides a layer of clan-support for individuals. People from highly tight-knit races/cultures often fare better in gang infested/violent environments simply because they have 10 or so cousins they can call up, to give you a really crude example of this in action. Whereas someone from a very Anglo-centric "nuclear family" has no such recourse.
Another example you could use would be ancestor worship. Ancestor worship helps to make a group more cohesive/ethnocentric, and hence stronger against potential subversion from outgroups because its a way of constantly reminding present-day people where they come from and who, even back to their great-great-great-great-great-x20 grandfather is ultimately responsible for their existence. It's also psychologically advantageous because it gives people a sense of time and place in a world that can often appear hyper-competitive/scary, for example I believe a lot of the mental illness we see around us today comes from people feeling they don't really belong to a real and meaningful group, which is an intrinsic human need.
I also think this is why weebs (real, hardcore weebs of the kanadajin variety) exist btw. They have no group identity, which is why they're often found in retarded subcultures of various kinds even prior to becoming weebs. The desire for group-identity is a part of human nature, and that obsession with Japanese/Muslim/music subculture she has is basically that nature sublimating itself into contorted and unhealthy forms.
>>208274>You're still a retard, although apparently a well read one. That was my first post on this thread and I only brought those things up to tell you your opinions are a product of your time and traditions shouldn't be accepted just because (which you implied). Are you fond of the pre-Socratics too?
This anon (>>208279) answer for me.
What I'm saying is not a "my time, my values", I just hate this kind of actual selfishness, like
"I only care about myself, fuck society. Fuck the future generation, our ancestors were trash and we are more evolved than them."
Everything I say and defend is an heritage of ancient knowledge.
Things and fundamentals that have been left aside with modern politics. Damn the French revolutionaries.>>208279
You have a good point of view and examples.
I don't know what is a weeb but I agree when you said many young people don't have identity, they don't see her family with proud and honor, don't have any conection with the land they lives on.
He is an atomized citizen, without connections, without direction, without references, As if he is a blank sheet. It's very very sad.
This other anon is right when he suggests that I am an adherent of perennial philosophy. Definitely I'm.
The greatest union with Greek philosophy, Roman laws and Christian (catholic) values are the god-tier of civilization.
>at least I have the excuse of being a 20 years old undergrad
this isn't a excuse
It's funny that you mention Augustus since he never had a child of his own and his attempts to encourage the aristocracy to have more kids failed.
Furthermore, the ancients certainly saw the value of a traditional family unit which meant women in a dedicated part of the house and men could do whatever they wanted. Brothels were common place, both ancient Romans and Greeks that you mentioned had their patriarchs equipped with complete liberty in exercising will when it came to trade and love life. Women were property, though that's beside the point. My point is that even though in theory the ancients cherished the thought of a close knit family, men would often do as they please, getting drunk and chasing whores if they wanted to. Women couldn't have a say in anything.
In fact, it was so commonplace for a man to take a break in shopping and pay a visit to a brothel that the wife didn't even consider it as an act of adultery.
Also, you have a romantic and twisted vision of a traditional family life. Not that you would care since it doesn't fit your agenda.
I'm not one of the anons you replied to but>And tell me one thing: What's this italian men of your family do all the day?
You sound like a typical terrone fuckup that has been spoiled by his mom and expects praise for basic things like providing for you family. What do you think the wife did all day, chill out on the sofa watching trashy Berlusconi-run tv channels?
Are you the same guy that is jealous of his more succesful sisters? They are more succesful than you because they don't sit on their asses expecting everything to be handed to them for the one and only reason they're men and a man is hard working by default.
Typical Italian male trash. It takes work to be succesful so stop complaining that it's not the 50s anymore and make your parents proud instead of being a waste of space or just an hero right away if you can't handle being an adult.
>>208300>Women were property
Nigga, women in the Roman Republic could divorce men on the grounds of domestic abuse. Cato the Elder said men who beat their wives were trash. Find another contemporaenous civilization (i.e. from that time) with similar respect for women that isn't European (e.g. Germanic or Celtic).
>child of his own
Wasn't Julia his biological child?
>his attempts to encourage the aristocracy to have more kids failed.
>My point is that even though in theory the ancients cherished the thought of a close knit family, men would often do as they please
1) You're exaggerating.
2) The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
>Also, you have a romantic and twisted vision of a traditional family life. Not that you would care since it doesn't fit your agenda.
Most of what I talk about is biological and about how group competition shapes things like pairbonding and family formation norms. I haven't romanticized anything. >>208300>Typical Italian male trash.
Harsh tbh. I like most Southern Euro guys. Which type of men do you prefer?
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I wish I could slap whoever bumped this thread lmao. We have a motherfucker in here using "m'lady" unironically.
You have absolutely no clue about ancient Roman history. What's the point in discussing anything with you?
> Nigga, women in the Roman Republic could divorce men on the grounds of domestic abuse.
Women were from the legal standpoint property. Hence only the Vestal virgins could actually possess and dispose of property and even sit in the front in the arena just like men could. Women were passed from the guardianship of their fathers to their husbands, which usually meant from the house she was born into to the house of her husband. So Cato said men who treated their women harshly were trash and you really think the ancient romans were following his words? lel
Women could divorce men under strict circumstances and that was only somewhere around 2nd - 3rd century. And even then, the question was how easy was it for a woman without a trade to just walk out of a marriage, albeit an abusive and unhappy one? Not to mention restrictions on limiting divorce rates in the later Republic. And to add, the divorce rates where disparagingly different between the wealthy and poor.
> Wasn't Julia his biological child?
I admit, I completely forgot about her. But that's only because the focus is really on male heirs.
> Source? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Rome#Augustus.27s_campaign_on_women_and_the_family
However, I found that fact in other books by well-established authors, so google's your friend or alternatively pick up a book. His reforms were notable. Just his one failed, at least when it came to the aristocracy.
> You're exaggerating.
> The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
No, the whole point of this thread is male envy, that men had more rights and freedoms. You say that a family, this basic social unit, is perennial and as such a proof that it's good but that's because women had no choice but to serve and be docile, in other words obedient slaves. Men could do whatever they pleased. What's the point of these family values if only one party is obliged to follow them under the threat of severe punishment and becoming a social pariah?>>208304
Italian men have one the highest percentage of adultery in Europe. They sure follow their traditional values :)
>You sound like a typical terrone fuckup that has been spoiled by his mom and expects praise for basic things like providing for you family. What do you think the wife did all day, chill out on the sofa watching trashy Berlusconi-run tv channels?
My mother work a lot in home. You don't have idea
But I never say the opposite.
That's the biggest question here, I don't doubt about women work a lot and have your housework being valued.
And on the other hand, the feminist anon just despise their own father and I make this question for her to reflect that the father also works, the mother and father work a lot and she only come here and say "oh my father put the ass on chair blablabla".
It's funny. I don't have full domain of english language but I'm having a better interpretation of the text than yours. Maybe it's my fault, I do not write perfectly, you do not understand perfectly and keep talking about things I didn't say.
>Are you the same guy that is jealous of his more succesful sisters?
My sides lol
I don't envy my sisters. I'm very proud of them and we have a great living.
And based on what you assume I'm not successful or my parents don't have proud?
You don't know nothing about my life, my lady. >>208308
Sorry, how I said, I don't have a full domain of the English language but use "my lady" is wrong?
I think this is a normal form of treatment with a woman. Am I wrong about that?
If it's wrong, what word do men use to talk to women?>>208326
you really like them?
Not the anon you are replying to, but oh my jesus mary pussy virgin you went there.
I didnt want to point it out,
but your English is horrible, you being some slow retard who thinks he has a very high iq and all women are mongoloids doesnt excuse your shit english.
Hell english is my 4th language, i get it man.
you just had to go there and brag about your SHIT english, my fucking sides.
Thank you, for being you.
This isn't a personal experience, but my mother and her sister along with a friend were repeatedly stalked, harassed, and assaulted by French and Italian men for being naive foreigners they thought they could get away doing that to.
Maybe it's changed the past couple decades, I don't know. I was really trying to get a rise out of him for thinking he's better than other men bc italian lol
The family and family friends I know who are from the mainland have always been gracious and lovely, but it's bullshit to claim that Southern Euro men are somehow morally superior to UK/American men, at least in my experience.>>208231>>208250
My point, which appears to have completely flown over your head(s,) is that people who bathe in moral superiority over Europeans supposedly treating their women better throughout history is bullshit. You can cherrypick all you want, and I can cherrypick all I want.
Sexual pleasure in the past ~100 years, until the 60s, was male-focused, and even then, we are still holding double standards (don't be a prude/don't be a slut, show more skin/omg slut) and holding male pleasure/orgasm to a different standard to female. It's getting better generationally, but it's not over. I'm speaking specifically of the US, the UK seems a bit better in some ways, but is not great. We couldn't even agree the female orgasm existed scientifically for years, for christ's sake, while instead treating "female hysteria" and throwing wives into mental wards if they got too annoying.
I am specifically speaking of non-western violence toward women because people think women are better off than men, and it's patently false in many countries.
If you think I actually believe Indian women are or were better off, you're purposely misreading my shit so you can shit on me without addressing my central arguments.
History matters. It doesn't matter if it's different today, we still have the remnants affecting society in insidious ways, and we should and can all fight that. Some of the best fighters for women I know are men, and vice versa.
Also, fuck off talking about my family. Some of them were legitimately garbage people, some just products of their times, and I'm quite nice to the latter, thanks.
People aren't purely driven by instinct, and sexy people aren't food to be consumed. If you can't recognize the other person as human yet a potential source of pleasure, you are the problem. Don't even have to be intentionally sexy and people will still find you sexy, does that mean we were asking for that reaction still?
You are a troll, and a sub-standard one at that. I'm bowing out. Have a nice day and hope you work as hard as you say you do, while I sit on my ass doing nothing because I'm an ungrateful woman. :^)
(other anons: even if I disagree with you, you cool, gj staying in this thread despite the assfucks invading and making it into a garbage fire instead of an interesting discussion)
I hope i'm just misunderstanding your unclear post, but if you're actually implying that the body of women is less censored than men then I have some things to tell you about nipples and the difference between social/cultural 'decency' and exploitation.>>208254
You'll find 'all women' are not literally calling all men ever misogynists, I happen to also know a masculine guy who can't even watch any sort of depiction of violence against a woman because it makes him feel so sick and he can grasp this. However by and large it is a male-caused problem, and perpetuated norms that are imposed upon men (yes, men are also victims of toxic masculinity, rape culture etc). When we says men are violent against women, the response shouldn't be "But I personally would never do that! Not all men! what about my pain or that time my Mom hit me!", the response is meant to be "how can I help?".
If we're talking about things from a purely practical standpoint, then yes I agree that it can be a turn off.
Unfortunately there's a big schism between the ethics and politics of social justice (e.g. marginalized and abused groups shouldn't have to make their assailants feel non-threatened or censor their experiences) and the tactical practicalities of how you win people over (e.g. flatter a group to make them feel in control and come to your side etc).
This is one of the ways in which people can feel threatened by social change or discourse e.g. 50 year old men don't understand that 'toxic masculinity' isn't a personal attack on them and they just simply aren't going to go reading old feminist literature to find that out. The misunderstanding between groups widen.
People don't like being told that they're part of something that is wrong, even if it's true and still within their power and interests to fix it.
Most people are aware of this problem, you're not the first person to realise it, do you have a way to fix it?
However>I think we can all agree it's a distinct minority of men who are actually violent towards women, correct?
Just because only a few men where I live actually violently rape women in alleyways, it doesn't change misogyny isn't a part of everyday life. Men who ask for the opinion of the male staff worker after ours, men who think they're entitled to pressure their girlfriends for sex acts as long as they just use emotional manipulation instead of physical, men who grab us in nightclubs or call us dehumanising names in the street because it's 'just a bit of fun' and we're dressed for it anyway. These are everyday men, fathers and brothers and boyfriends and sons who think of themselves as good guys. These ARE the majority.
I don't know why this italianfag are losing the time trying to understand and debate about modern women.
I'll give you a brotip, don't help women in any situation, don't compliment, don't be a gentleman or any thing like that.
It will be the best thing you will do. I hope all men do this.
If we are treated as rapists and social monsters, let's ignore them, let's make their lives easier without ANY interference from men.
Are you being attacked? I don't care, defend yourself or wait for another woman to appear to help you against the attacker.
Is the building on fire? I don't care, I will save myself, at most, children and the elderly first. In another case, it's the law of the strongest, so, man is saved.
The day that men start doing it, maybe things will change.
No woman cares what you do, dude. Live your life how you want, but do it because that's what you actually want and not because you want revenge against women for not being the way you want them to be and doing what you want them to do.
Go your own way, but don't expect women to come chasing after you. It's not going to happen.
>>208809>Most people are aware of this problem, you're not the first person to realise it, do you have a way to fix it?
The next best predictor of crime after race is coming from a single mother household. I'm not saying this as a dig against single mothers, don't get me wrong. What I am saying is that a lack of a strong male role model is important for a growing man. This can be compensated in other ways by having other positive male role models such as a grandfather or uncle, but not everyone is so lucky.
Puberty is a very different experience for a man compared to a woman, testosterone naturally makes you much more aggressive and sexually driven not to mention the natural difference in body strength (stories about FtM transgenders starting HRT speak a lot about this). You have to find some way to temper it. I remember some post a while back about a teacher that basically helps boys from low income neighborhoods that often lack a positive male role model through some after school club, and I would say that's a perfect example of how to help curb future violence. In so many words I believe this is a male problem that can only be addressed through other men taking a mentor role.
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>The incels and betas are failures as men, but they still have that logical side of our brains
Your logical side isn't that well developed if you think giving up on being a free, autonomous, self supporting individual and sucking dick is better than just fucking bettering yourself.
How does it feel like to
know that the women who you consider inferior are more driven than you? That they are succeeding where you failed?
>I want women to know that unless you are horrifyingly deformed a man will fuck you, if you are a homeless woman with nice tits a man will fuck you, if you are a fat woman a man will fuck you, there are men who specifically love fat women. Men are the ones who suffer for eternity because SNIP
but we don't want to fuck you so your point is sort of moot, right?
i love being a woman. i love my brain, my tits, my cunt, i love having sex. i have never once wanted to be a man. i feel sorry for the people in this thread who have so much trouble with their sex. i even love having my period. i'm glad i'm a woman. being a girl is cool. not in some shitty nu-feminist way, either. we are cool. we are equal to guys. we can do everything they can.
well. i can't lift shit like a dude but you get my point i hope.
i don't like third wave feminism because it tells young women is to see themselves as oppressed and shat on which eventually leads to neurosis and self-hatred and there's evidence of that in this thread, sadly, but idk, maybe go and read some camille paglia if third wave pisses you, she'll cheer you right up. she is celebratory about women and men, and how all this separatist shit is just so much shit.
i wish all the anons here could feel okay in their skin. ffs, just love yourself. you're young and beautiful. don't be afraid of the world. it's not nearly as scary as they made it out to be.
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>You want to know what the one girl i decided to show my true face said when i told her i love her?
"no you dont"
Maybe your true face isn't as appealing as you think. If it's anything like what you posted here I can see why she was letting you off the hook easy.
I'll resist the urge to be a snarky asshole with this reply and give even-handed advice for you and any curious men who happen to be browsing this board.
Your main problem is that you despise women while wanting them to cater to you and never judge you. Most women, including myself, have run into men who think this way enough times in our lives to pick up on the subtle cues of this mentality and avoid dating a man who will always think we are nothing but trash no matter what we do. In your post you say things like:
>"every thing about a woman is a lie, she is a walking lie… When a woman says she is fine, she isnt. Women are passive aggressive, only pretend to be nice on the surface."
Yet you also desire a woman who will love you unconditionally.
>"the best thing in the world to me would be to have a woman hold me and tell me its going to be alright… to have someone i can relax and talk to , and who clicks with me, who doesnt judge me."
The conditions you're describing are those of a servant. "Fetch me my papers so I can read them, pitiable peasant, and come listen to me rant about my problems afterword, moron, or you're out on the street!" No woman (or man) wants to be in a relationship with someone who detests them. You'll need to fix your attitude about women first to improve your chances. Cut off red pill or manosphere websites from your life. They, like their angry third wave feminism counterparts, are all about displaying and discussing worst case scenario behaviors and stories about the opposite sex. Read some things by second wave style feminists who support both men and women like Christina Hoff Summers and Camille Paglia. Do online searches for terms like "what I love about my husband" or "my favorite things about my husband" to find examples of men and women in good relationships. I did these things when I went through a "fucking men REEEEEEE" phase after a bad breakup. I cynically thought men discussing their favorite things about their wives online would say things like "her tits", "she does everything I say", or "she shuts up when I tell her to". Instead I found comments about their wives cleverness, willingness to help, or sharing hobbies together. I guarantee you'll have a hard time finding examples of women saying their favorite things about their husbands are his money, lack of emotions, or that he was the captain of the football team.
You also sound like you have issues with depression or anxiety when you mentioned "I can't remember the last time I was happy." These can make a person feel unworthy of love and not want to put effort into anything. I suggest you take a look at what's contributing to your mental health problems and what sort of activities made you happy in the past. Decide if a therapist or medications might help you. You come across as wanting to change things instead of the more typical robot/red piller who thinks he's perfect and that women are the sole cause of his problems. That's one step on the way to self-improvement.
Your reading compression is bad and you should feel bad
The question was about how to solve the the problem rallying for a cause without alienating or "turning off" those that are most at fault without having to be apologetic for being victimized
>but then demand men dont be weak betas
Being "beta" is a mindset that has nothing to do with physical strength. People wanting a "stronger" person doesn't mean be domineering or condescending like a misogynist. It means things like be more mature. Becoming a responsible, non-denegrating adult are attractive features for a partner regardless of gender.
>im a failure at being at man
Sounds like you're a failure of an adult in general. Obviously this isn't really about gender stereotypes, this is about you having low self-worth and nothing to show for how many years you've lived on this planet.
>the only thing that gets you wet is masculinity
You just said women want competent, confident people. Those are personality traits, not features that come with being masculine. You could be a confident and competent twink.
>you are a contradiction
It's not a contradiction to reject misogynists while wanting competent, strong, and confident partners.
>you will never know what its like to have the despair of a man who failed
Tons of people fail in the world, you're not special for it. Is it any wonder you can't escape "hell" when you're so adamant about upholding your mental status quo about how evil women are for not wanting losers. Even you wouldn't want a loser equivalent female for a partner.
You're angry at women for wanting a Chad, but methinks you're not exactly looking for a fallen, loser woman either. Guys like you always want the cute (yet obtainable) women who you think will never ask for anything while giving you everything you want, like a replacement mommy to coddle your self-pity and helplessness.
We won't see your ass running with any women who are unfeminine and below average. No less women who've made failure life choices, or else you'd have found someone already. You have no reason to be as indignant as you are.
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I get shamed for showing emotions too because i broadcast myself as a tough person that doesn't feel, but i know men have it worse in that regard.
And that two paragraph rant about "lol just sell yourself and rely on a man for everything" is just bullshit. The only women who can marry rich guys are hot young sumbissive babes. That's a very small amount of women. And no matter how you feel about it, most women want to be self-sufficient and be able to stand on their own feet. I've lived in poverty and i would rather do that again than suck dick for money, honestly. You could always become a male prostitute and sell your ass but that's dehumanizing isn't it?
And the next two paragraphs of women being fake, and wanting strong men do not apply to me either. You're really making me feel like a special snowflake here but the truth is many women are like me. Many women are NOT put off by a man with feelings and then there are a few women who like submissive men, like i do. Point is, i love talking about myself and proving people wrong.
No, they aren't capable. At all. They will blatantly ignore any piece of information that goes against their worldview. They are incapable of seeing women as individuals who have complex thoughts and feelings.
If you ever hear a dude say the word "chad" or "beta" unironically, fucking run. Far away. There are normal, nice men out there. That probably isn't going to be one of them.
Stop thinking in absolutes. Both women and men have many social problems, both general and gender-specific.
Men have the historical upper-hand and are assumed more power, but still have unfair expectations to fulfill. Women, with the exception of female royalty, had little to no power historically, and suffer their own problems.
A middle ground can easily be drawn here. Both sexes have issues, and women's are more prevalent.
>>209355>but still have unfair expectations to fulfill.
No they don't, they really don't. Men have everything in their life handed to them on a silver platter.
Guys who complain about "unfair expectations" are just whiny manchildren.
Who are the first to leave when a ship is sinking?
If a man said he gets nervous with meeting women and says he prefers them to make the first move, how do both men and women react to that outside online sites? Sympathetic agreement or "Be a man and grow some balls!"?
How do most women react when a man, especially in his 30's, begins crying over drama or some inconvenience?
How would people react when a man says he prefers his own survival instead of helping others in a burning building versus a woman saying the same thing? Both receive scorn but who gets it worse?
A physically weak woman and a physically weak man. Who seems more socially acceptable?
Look, anon, I agree that we are worse off. I know the situation. Men have it tons better, but let's not pretend they are immune to societal issues. Not to mention, when they voice their complaints, people will call them, in your words, whiny manchildren.
And yes, I know most of these social issues are perpetrated by men, but that doesn't magically remove the toxicity of it. A middle ground isn't that difficult to reach.
Ok, so you agree that men should oblige by what society demands from them, even if it's detrimental to their physical and mental health, even if it means them having to die in dangerous situations.
Do you, in sequence, also agree that women should oblige by what society wants from them, such as the need to marry and have children?
Please fuck off. We're not incompetent. We have different skills and different ways of problem solving.
You sound like some dumbass who just loves this iteration of feminism. "Tell them they need to be protected from the world! Tell them they're fragile blossoms just waiting to be defiled!"
All the fires, die in them.
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But they aren't unfair obligations, and it isn't "inhumane" since they benefit society for the better as a whole. And I don't believe they are an inherent cause for female discrimination as >>209423
believes. It's not about societal roles, but obligations.
Female obligations in society are innately restricting. Male obligations make for a better contributor to society. I think any man who fails to uphold those obligations are worthless, and are even worse if they think they need to be changed.
>>209443>Male obligations make for a better contributor to society.
All obligations are to the benefit of society at large, otherwise they wouldn't be obligations enforced by society.
The point is that you shouldn't give a fuck what society wants because you're your own person.
Honestly that was one thing that was nagging me about this thread. Did some of these people actually believe the shit they were saying? Were they just trying to piss off incels with sweeping generalizations? Etc.
The facade can only go on for so long though.
You know, maybe that user is a robot.
But, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised either if they were actually a young bitter woman. I have few friends who have this mindset. They have boyfriends, too, which tempts me to ask if they're fine with their SO's being drafted in war one day, but I'm not brave enough to ask.
>>209468>I have few friends who have this mindset.
Doesn't it get old?
I mean I have my own hot opinions about certain things, but dealing with bitterness is just fucking draining regardless of who the subject of attention is.
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>>209454>The point is that you shouldn't give a fuck what society wants because you're your own person.
That doesn't mean the society does not have the right to shun those who do not conform. Granted, that also doesn't mean the society is inherently right itself all the time either, as is in the case of women becoming oppressed and restricted by their designated roles.
But I simply believe the obligations to society men have, to be strong, not weak and to be stoic, and other things like defending the country and putting women and children before themselves in dire circumstances, are inherently good. Any man who fulfills these should be proud of himself to be in service to the collective. Any man who doesn't should be ashamed, for being selfish.>>209460
I am not a robot, but I'm not a woman either, never said I was. Though, getting anyone here to think I'm not a robot is an impossibility lol.
Without taking into account the social side, which has been of course shaped by biological differences, I just hate how much more geared towards reproduction the female body is.
Sure, the male is too. After all, the only reason separate sexes exist is for sexual reproduction.
But you can't change the facts. When puberty comes, males(on average) get strong musculature and the ability to develop it faster, massive height increase, and competitiveness from testosterone.
What are the biological downsides to being male- high sex drive?, lower life expectancy? The first I can understand, the second one even being mentioned by mra is pathetic, who actually cares about two years at 80+. Don't kid yourself.
On the other hand, girls have their hips move around to the point of having to learn how to walk properly again and sacs of fat on their chests(which also takes away upper body strength) that attract male attention from 12 onwards, fat index increase, periods and the sentence that is the hormonal cycle.
What is good about this outside of men wanting to pump and dump?
Men are given biological attributes that they can use outside of the reproductive duty, while women are all about that.
Did you even read my post? The draft is exclusively male and men staff dangerous jobs because they are physically stronger. They are physically stronger in order to be able to force themselves on women and protect their cubs.
Those are duties that come with the strength awarded to you by mother nature, which, by the way, comes in handy more often than not. The female body is so far below that those are non existent. No duties, no obligations except for being an incubator. Re-read my previous post's first sentence.
I agree with you, but to be fair the males get stronger to protect their pregnant females and hunt for meat to bring them since they're vulnerable while pregnant. Then once she gives birth the male will protect her children, too. Their strength could be used for other purposes but I think that's the first primary function.
I kinda wish we had something that could be useful outside baby-making. I guess the estrogen boosting the immune system is a plus?
Historically women have had a negligible impact on the armed forces. People often put up Russia as an example during WW2, but they literally served as 3%~ of their personnel, and that includes non combat roles. The only army that puts women in open combat nowadays to the best of my knowledge is Israel, and this was long after the Six-Day War anyways. >>209547
To reiterate, now that safety standards are a thing there are no significant issues. I stated I understand your penis envy in modern times, even if it's a classic case of the grass is greener. Rewind the clock? As dangerous as sweatshops were they had little on factories.
And yet it is both rather recent (draft affecting women only in 2015), and they have never been in a position where women are required to be shot at in any significant capacity. I would love to see how long it lasts under the threat of total war.
Regardless, this hardly bunks the notion that war & forced conscription has historically been a male role. Far from a "US only" thing.
I'm not sure where to put this so it can go in the male tears thread
I keep hearing how 'neckbeard' is a hypocritical thing to call misogynists and even though it just makes me roll my eyes I kind of agree with some of these cringey points https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/neckbeard-cartoon/
This comic totally panders to neckbeards but I guess I don't want to give them any ammunition that they can turn back on us. The problem is that misogynistic robots don't mind being called misogynists because they think they're right, whereas neckbeard actually packs a punch
I can't think of any sjw friendly alternatives? We need a new slur
That comic… is so dumb I have no words for it. Neckbeard isn't an insult because it's an amalgamate of fat, single, ugly and dork (or whatever else its author thought was "packed" inside the word), those are just stereotypical characteristics. Someone can be all of those and still be a good person and therefore not a neckbeard, or they can lift, have a job, etc and still be a neckbeard for their opinions. The word itself is fine.
The stereotype on the other hand… is also fine. These characteristics need to be contextualized, because inside the stereotype they're used as a way to exacerbate the dude's rotten personality. He's not fat because he's a bro who eats way too much pizza with friends, it's because he spends all day crunching doritos and chugging mountain dew. He's not single because he's shy or ~ace~/~aro~, it's because he's an asshole. He's not unemployed living with his parents because the economy is shit, it's because he's lazy and entitled.
None of these characteristics are necessarily bad, but all of them coupled together and then united by the common underlying cause "being a shit person" do paint a repulsive picture. Take away the underlying cause and you get a regular nerd that's not repulsive.
Also, hell will freeze over before I'll give up a word because sjws tell me to
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Grass isn't always greener on the other side. Being a guy isn't what it's cracked up to be, there are some cons to it that men have to deal with most of our lives that I'd rather not have to deal with.
-Men are usually expected to do more, and if we don't meet certain expectations our family will get on us about it. If I'm not doing this or have that by a certain age I never hear the end of it.
-If we express are emotions to much we are considered weak by our peers, many of us bottle shit up to the point some of us snap.
-Today it seems there is a war on masculinity, if I act a way a guy usually acts it's considered "bro culture" or "extremely right winged". I don't deal with criticism on a daily basis in person due to my current environment.
-Being a boy is actually considered a disorder in the 21st century… this is another modern ill we guys have to face. You don't pay attention in class? You bounce off the walls? You want to act like a boy? That's ADD/ADHD, better drug you up. What follows usually is all sorts of problems, they never function normally it's similar to meth in some ways. You got a generation of men a decent sized chunk of them that have been drugged up from an early age and they don't act like men because of it, sure some women have been put on ADD/ADHD treatment drugs but far less than men.
-Men have a lower value, this has been the case since the dawn of humanity. Women been guarded primarily not just because of a culture thing to protect women but for reproduction reasons as well women have a higher value. Women never went to war for a reason because you only need one man to continue on a bloodline, one man in a tribal setting could take on more than one wife and have more children that way. Losing 50 women is worse than losing 50 men, reason you see a lot of women being protected during some of these mass shootings is more than just a cultural thing it's also instinct.
-We commit suicide more, this could be for all sorts of reasons but I consider it a major issue. I think we tend to get depressed more as well but don't quote me on that.
I don't hate being a guy, and I'd not pick being a girl if I had a choice at birth. But I don't wake up every day feeling "golly jee I'm happy to have a penis" most days being a guy end up being mediocre and I feel the stress of expectations, social situations, and society coming down on me. I don't know what it's like being a woman, but being a guy isn't perfect either.
>>210101>Men are usually expected to do more, and if we don't meet certain expectations our family will get on us about it.
Maybe don't be a lazy entitled prick then>If we express are emotions to much we are considered weak by our peers, many of us bottle shit up to the point some of us snap.
Wow oh no. You're such a fucking wimp>Today it seems there is a war on masculinity, if I act a way a guy usually acts it's considered "bro culture" or "extremely right winged".
Probably because you are a retarded dudebro or a right wing nut>Being a boy is actually considered a disorder in the 21st century
It should be>Men have a lower value
Yes I'm sure that's why men never rape and murder women daily because they value them so much oh wait>We commit suicide more
Not true, but you should
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kek this is, i swear to god, the same identical answer a robot would have given.
This is /r9k/.
Thanks Kojima, you were a visionary. The future of small isolated communities that each hold their own hermetic truth, you've been always right since 2001.
>>210101>Men are usually expected to do more, and if we don't meet certain expectations our family will get on us about it. If I'm not doing this or have that by a certain age I never hear the end of it.
No offense, but do you really not think it's the same for women? Women have the same expectations and are judged if we don't meet them. We can't just sit around. For me, I always had trouble with finances and had to live with my parents until I was about 22. They always told me I always have to be moving forward, either in school or working, or else I get kicked out. The expectations were the same for my brother and I. They absolutely expected both of us to accomplish SOMETHING, and then move on to accomplish something else after that, and it's the same for most people I know, man or woman.
> Men have lower value
I see this sentiment a lot, mostly from men. Yeah I would like to see this changed, but I'm not sure how because as you said, it is ingrained in culture and society. I honestly cringe whenever I hear people say "value" in regards to another human being, maybe it's idealistic but I would like us to move past this line of thinking. I also hate when people say men were and are "disposable" for the same reasons you mentioned. I get what they technically mean, but it isn't a good way to think. Nobody is completely "disposable" to certain people in their life, there are certainly people in your life who value you more than any woman.
> We commit suicide more
True, and there are various speculations about this, like lack of mental healthcare opportunities and the methods that men choose vs methods that women choose. It ties into your second point where men aren't encouraged to express their emotions or ask for help. Again, it's a societal issue we have to change. I agree with you and I'm sorry that things are the way they are. I also think there is validity to the "method" claim. Technically women are more likely to be DIAGNOSED with depression or anxiety, but that could be because they are more likely to seek help for their negative emotions. Women are also more likely to attempt suicide, but men are more likely to choose a more lethal method and actually be successsful (sorry I can't think of another word to use) at it.
Overall, like other people have mentioned in this thread, men and women each have their own unique set of issues. I don't understand why we all can't be open and try to be understanding about all of them instead of belittling them like >>210107
did. This goes both ways. Telling people their problems are small compared to X group really accomplishes nothing.
It is identical, I've tried to help out people on /r9k/ get out of mom's basement, leave NEETdom, etc and I usually get the same cookie cutter responses.>>210110
Look I was just trying to give women here a few reasons that they should not envy men just to make them feel better that being a male can suck to. >beta male
Alphas go through the same issues as well, the biggest typical Chad I knew committed suicide at age 22 apparently he had all sorts of issues but never opened up about them. Being good with the opposite sex doesn't mean that group of men have perfect lives something /r9k/ doesn't seem to understand.>Women who feel that society and mainstream, liberal feminism has let them down. Women who have been abused by men. Women with mental illness.
Women do have their own issues to deal with but I'm not a woman I don't know what it's like but there is no need for any male envy. Life seems to suck over all, being a different gender just means a few sets of different problems to deal with.>>210114>No offense, but do you really not think it's the same for women?
Maybe in my case it's different, my sister isn't held to the same standards I am. My sister pretty much is a NEET that dropped out of college she get's what she wants, get's a new car every few years, has a pretty damn big allowance, etc. I was held to a different standard, expected to go to college, have kids, pay for every I need, etc. In my experience it's different I moved far away because of it.>Overall, like other people have mentioned in this thread, men and women each have their own unique set of issues.
Exactly, being a different gender doesn't mean your experiences will be better in life.
Thanks for telling a board full of women exactly what women want. We just weren't sure before, but now you've enlightened us.
Ok but for real, you seem to be very depressed and down on yourself. I know pretty much all advice that you are given over the internet is easier said than done, or you don't think it will work, but I'm going to give you some anyway. Don't worry about what women want right now. Don't worry about what society/culture says you should and shouldn't be. Don't even worry about trying to compete with the standards of other men. If there is something specific that you don't like about yourself, start working to change it but only judge your progress by where YOU started. Not by what other men are like, or by shit you see in the media. My point is, try to only compare yourself to your past self and you will begin to see the positive changes that you can make.
Another thing is, if a girlfriend is what you want (I'm assuming it is judging by your post) and dating isn't working out for you right now, try not to force it or worry about it. Focus on something else that makes you happy. Are you in school? Learning a trade? If not, and there is something you want to study, go talk to an academic counselor and see what is possible for you and your finances. Do you like your job? If not, start looking around for something different. Even just casually browing job sites, it gives you an idea of what is out there. Are there any hobbies that you like to do? Keep doing those, maybe spend less time on the internet and replace that time doing things that you enjoy doing. Especially if any of your hobbies are creative, I've found that the best self esteem booster is just creating as much as possible and being proud of what you've done.
Most of all, try to take little breaks from the internet. There is a lot of weird gender shit going on right now, especially in certain communities. The less you read things like that, the easier it will be for you to put those thoughts aside and focus on other things. Exercising outdoors is a great option. Not even to lose weight, but it will just make you feel much better. Trust me, taking daily runs has been the single greatest improvement I've made for my mental health.
Try to hang out with your friends, just you guys. Not going to bars and trying to score or anything like that, but just nice male bonding time. Gaming or sports or something like that. If you don't have very many friends and want to make more, try using your hobbies to find people. Sometimes there are clubs/groups/internet meetups depending on what you're into, and then you already have a headstart on making new relationships because you will have something in common.
Also, there's nothing wrong with complaining or expressing your feelings, no matter what people tell you. If you aren't comfortable doing so with anyone in your family or friend group and feel that you'll be judged, maybe look into talking to a professional. If you feel you'll be uncomfortable in an office setting, there are online programs now that can connect you with a professional either by videochat or literally just like a text message situation. That's really helpful if you have social anxiety or similar issues.
One more thing: please realize that there is a difference between what [most] women want in the bedroom and what they want in the day to day relationship. For instance, some women do like to be dominated in bed, but that doesn't mean they want their boyfriend to 'dominate' them in every aspect of their life or treat them like shit. Most of us DO want a man who will treat as his equal and doesn't act like a pig, but a lot of us also want to be dominated in bed. This isn't as much of a contradiction as you would think. They're two differnent aspects to a relationship. Please don't start running around acting like a complete cunt because you think that's what women want. Another thing to realize, and I know you won't believe this, but women aren't a hivemind. We don't all want the same thing. Don't try to apply the same standards to every woman you meet, just get to know them and you will be able to figure out what they like.
Hope you don't mind all this unwarranted advice, and good luck.
Why are you doing this? If it were a woman on a predominately male board, she'd be told to gtfo and there would be no mercy or nice talk.
He won't change his opinion on women no matter what. I bet he's the type that likes watching women getting brutally tortured on liveleak. You're either extremely naive or an idiot for thinking you can change anyone's opinion on the internet, particularly that of a robot. Your disgusting bien-pensant talk does more damage than good.
I wasn't trying to change his opinion on women, I know that will never change. That's why I didn't focus on the dating or sex aspect of his rant.
Just wanted to give some advice on how he can change his opinion of HIMSELF. Maybe I'm an idiot for wanting to give him advice on how to not hate himself, despite the fact that he hates women for no reason, but whatever. I'm not naive, I know he'll either ignore or reply back that I'm a roastie whore who doesn't understand, but who cares? He can read that or not, and do what he wants with that advice.
I saged anyway.
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Whining or hating women not gonna change anything m8, just accept you are undateable and do fun stuff(escapism etc.), that's what I did and I'm happy as fuck right now.
I work in a pretty male-dominated field, and it gets to me that half of my colleagues tend to see the female members of my profession as somehow lacking or less on the basis of gender, and I've personally seen sexual harassment and general creepy shit go unaddressed or get ignored.
Maybe it bothers me as much as it does because people don't GET where we are if they're stupid or lack talent.
Also, the field is full of assholes generally, and sometimes I see women put at a disadvantage because they're socialized to be "nice" and "sweet" their entire lives.
Fuck that noise— be a ruthless cunt or the world is only going to kick you right in the ass.
My first boss was a really nice lady, but she was harder than a chopping block. It's not that she wasn't feminine; she just brooked no bullshit. In fact she was kind and grandmotherly but was just tough as hell.
My point is yeah, women get the short end of the stick in many areas of life, and people are going to judge you on the basis of shit that has nothing to do with you.
But cheer up, because you make better doctors, lawyers, firefighters, professors, analysts, police, judges, etc.
I really don't get why people (other than r9k) shit on third-wave feminism so much; if you had to boil it down to a sentence it would be this: apart from the ability to lift heavy shit, there's really no difference between male and female: society just defines that for us.
Most of what you end up with in life depends on where you start, and if being born a girl puts you in a less-than-ideal position in life it's because humanity has a lot of stupid hangups about this shit.
You jelly because a man is better at writing his name in the snow? Cheer up, testosterone peels a decade off the human lifespan.
There are a TON of advantages to being a man, but only because it's been collectively decided there should be. Robots are mad because they perceive a loss of power as a threat.
So be the threat.
The "never any reason to state your gender" is a retarded argument made by misogynistic /b/tards. There's no need to openly proclaim "btw i'm a grill", sure, but in some boards you need to go out of your way to pretend you're a man. Which doesn't fall under "not stating your gender", it falls under "not stating you're a female and stating your gender as male instead". Stop thinking you're one of the guys.>>210226
Honestly anon…thank you so much. I needed to read something like this today. Im one of those “nice, sweet” girls and the way I am fucks me over on a daily basis. I need to become that ruthless cunt who isn’t bothered if I want to maintain my sanity. I’m not fully over being angry/sad about the shit that goes on in my workplace and in society in general, and I give a lot of fucks that I wish I didn’t, but I hope that one day I can say everything you just said and really mean it.
I just really appreciate your post right now.
You're welcome! I should point out that yesterday I was a bit salty from something that had happened earlier in the day, and the whole "punch life in the dick!" bit might've been a bit much. I mean most of the people who read this are going to face different consequences with respect to assertiveness than I do. I'm not personally susceptible to the same kind of blowback, and I should've probably thought about that a bit harder before I posted, because I was trying to stress different things than maybe came across.
> Im one of those “nice, sweet” girls and the way I am fucks me over on a daily basis. I need to become that ruthless cunt who isn’t bothered if I want to maintain my sanity. I’m not fully over being angry/sad about the shit that goes on in my workplace and in society in general, and I give a lot of fucks that I wish I didn’t[.]
Nice, sweet people make the world so much more bearable. infinitely so, and every day. If those are aspects of your personalities, hold onto them, because they say a lot about you.
The tough-as-nails lady I referenced in my post is a human rights lawyer, among other things. She is also (last I checked) the chief attorney for a major American city. She's never been short on compassion or empathy, not for a second. Let me tell you a story:
When I worked for her, somebody claimed the city owed him money and he hadn't been paid. We did owe him, but how much was what was in dispute. Without going into too much detail, somebody left a manhole cover open and some nerd fell in and sued us. The guy also had cancer, so there was the added Walter White scenario where he wanted to make sure his family had some extra money after he was gone. He was convinced that he would go in front of a jury and tell them the evil city lawyers were refusing payment etc. when he really wasn't all that hurt from the fall itself. She sent me in and I talked to the guy and his lawyer, asked how much they wanted and what their legal position was and all that. I go back and tell her they said "give us X amount or we're going to trial" and she was like "Lol, so the city is just supposed to cut everyone a check because they have cancer?"
Sounds kind of bitchy, right? But when you're a lawyer in that position, any money you pay out is taxpayer money. We had citizens get sick and die every day; we had new ones born every day, too. Responsible for all of them and only a finite amount of cash to get it all done. You never take more than you need, because people work hard.
We offered the guy (I thought, personally) more than he deserved, though it was still way less than what he wanted. He marched into her office and cursed her out. He was laying into her, but she stopped him and she explained her rationale and said "look, man. Do you really wanna spend your last few months on earth losing a lawsuit, or with your family? I'm giving you way more than the bare minimum. You're a businessman, so make a business decision." And his whole demeanor changed. He thought about it for a bit, talked to his attorney, shook our hands and signed a settlement contract. I was pissed because I thought we got rolled. (that's actually a little strong, but we still gave him too much). I said something to that effect, but she smiled and called up her contacts at one of the nearby universities which is pretty famous for cancer research and got him treated for free.
I'm telling you this because being assertive doesn't mean you have to stop caring. You're angry and sad about the state of things? Good. There's your motivation to contribute your talents towards changing that. None of you should ever be hiding their light under a bushel. I'm just saying stick up for yourself and stick up for people who need it. Be tough, be hopeful, and be who you are, not who anyone else thinks you should
Get comfortable in your own skin is what I'm saying, because you'll never be anyone else.>>210315
>you yourself admitted women are inferior in that aspect.
Oh boy. I see where this is going.
I didn't say women were stronger firefighters, I said they made better
In my previous jurisdiction, there was one set of strength requirements that male and female firemen ALL had to pass. There's a threshold, a minimum bar. If you can demonstrate enough strength (among all the other things firefighters need to be able to do) you're qualified for the job.
Beyond that, outcomes revolve around what you get done at work, not what you can bench.
>>210323>I didn't say women were stronger firefighters, I said they made better firefighters.
Right, and why is that? It's not due to strength which is critical for a firefighter, do you have an extra set of lungs I'm unaware of so you can skip the O2 tank? Infravision to see through the smoke like in Baldurs Gate? I don't mind if a woman wants to become a ball busting lawyer or doctor or whatever else, more power to her if she's able to pursue that path. But on one hand you're claiming men=women discounting strength with that third wave feminism blurb, but then claiming women are fundamentally better at all these different things. It simply does not follow.
Moreover you claim testosterone leaves men short a decade, when it's actually a couple of years tops in any first world country (usually less). If men are dying a decade younger, it's because they're literally working themselves to death or made horrible health decisions, not due to the evil hormones. As another poster here accurately pointed out, whining about the 2 year gap in life expectancy is stupid. But by the same token trying to brag about it is also retarded.
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lol what a pathetic post
I hope you know that the reason your life sucks is wholly your own fault.
People look at you like you're trash because that is what you are, trash. It's the truth.
Maybe had not chosen to be such scum from the outset of your life, you wouldn't turn out this way. Begging for attention and pity on a female-oriented message board.
Honestly just kill yourself. Stream it too, I'd love to see it. Maybe it would be the only worthwhile thing you do in your entire life.
No. It’s boring.
Plus hating women is hardly edgy. Most men do, we’re used to it by now. Find something new.
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That's cool, babe.
Women don't have to be disagreeable to be hated by men though, that's accomplished just by existing.
Yeah exactly. I never had a problem with men or thought twice of any interaction with them until like college/post-college when I learned how they really thought of women and how much they despise us just because we're women.
I still don't even hate men, I just choose to avoid them as much as I can. That's just me though. I already hate myself enough, don't need a bunch of men in my life to add on to it and tell me how worthless I am all the time.
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>>210463>And crosses over into real violence and harassment perpetrated against women daily.
If you're going to suggest men should be hated because they commit violence against women much more regularly, let's break it down further. Among men, what group of them is most likely to assault a woman?
If you think gendered rape, violence, and harrassment just constitute someone who's a "mean boy" then sure booboo. Think whatever you want.>>210467>what group of them is most likely to assault a woman?
It doesn't matter, they're all prone to the same behavior.
>>210469>It doesn't matter, they're all prone to the same behavior.
Everyone is prone to violence. That's why domestic abuse is more frequent among lesbian pairings than any other combination around.
So clearly you're just trying to hedge your bets since you've considered women to be an acceptable risk. Let me, help you.
How long have you been at it?
You don't need to date to be happy, but being genuinely isolated wears on most people pretty quickly. Maybe you're schizoid.
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>>210512>your self righteous tone is insufferable
I am self righteous. I'm not the moron REEEEing about the opposite gender in my basement.
And I have just as much of a right to post here as any of you losers do.
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>>210513>If I arbitrarily multiply two independant statistic then I can make my own new statistics
Are you in high school?
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I am going to assume you are just as much of a loser as most of us, since you have now dragged this into the next day. The point is you have repeated your point ad nauseam. Do you have anything new you would like to add? Anything relevant to the actual topic of this thread?
I mean do you get paid to cape this hard for hypothetical men? Two people saying they didn't like men really pissed you off this much?
To be honest I suspect that you are a robot larping as a well adjusted man, just looking to argue. But continue repeating the same thing over and over if that's what you enjoy doing.
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>>210524>treats stamping out hypocrisy betweent the genders on a Taiwanese cross-stich forum like it's a fucking full-time job>accuses other people of REEEEing from their basement
I'm sorry we triggered
you so much but it's not that deep bro, we weren't talking about you. Feel free to leave your security post at any time.
What kind of men do you typically envy?
I would type men into the following classes (this is reductive):
Working class- the guys who failed to go to college or pursue a conventional career. Can often be quite bright, but either had no expectations placed on them or became unmotivated for some other reason. Potentially high school drop outs, likely working in the service economy or in construction. Quite likely to be deadbeat dads, quite likely to be fatherless. Nowadays these guys tend to feel like nobodies once they're out of high school and especially once they're in their thirties, although it varies. A minority of them make decent incomes in more skilled working class labor (as a mechanic, carpenter, etc). You may not interact with or think of these people very much, but there's a lot of them.
Managerial class- tend to be socially skilled, likely enjoying popularity in school and college. Most likely type to be involved with team sports. They generally go to college, major in something business related (or potentially engineering), amass connections, become a manager and try to manipulate their way up the ranks. Tend to enjoy life and be quite successful. Ironically, this class may also be the most widely hated.
Technical class- pursue a profession in something lucrative but highly skilled- programmers, dentists, accountants, etc. Generally intelligent but often quite unskilled socially, although not always. May fit the conventional nerd archetype, but increasingly may simply be responding to economic pressures.
Artistic Class- tend to pursue "careers" in arts, social studies, or humanities. Their lives tend to fall off a cliff once they're out of school. Range from somewhat dull to extremely intelligent. Much more likely to cultivate niche tastes in art, use psychedelics, and engage in political activism. In response to the economy, these guys are increasingly rare, and also increasingly looked down upon.
Drop out class- guys who fall out of the rat race on account of mental illness, trauma, or sheer sloth. Tend to live short, lonely lives. May never have a relationship, may spend decades thinking about the relationship which destroyed them. Often come from broken homes or particularly cruel bullying situations. Most likely class to post on lolcow.farm.
Underclass- career criminals. May be more or less socially talented, but they need some connections to get into their line of work. Drug dealers, pimps, fences, gangbangers, etc. Often enjoy a very lively youth, but if they're alive once they're forty they tend to be unemployable nobodies who've lost nearly everything.
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I came out as pretty ugly when I hit the puberty, tried a bit to get a gf but failed and gave up until I was in college. College was the same so I realized I'm just not made for relationships and love, was depressed and really lonely for a while but managed to come to terms with it. I have good friends and a nice family so I don't get isolated, >tfw no gf sometimes hit me but I can handle it. I'm almost 28 now.