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>>113748>what inside our hearts
yeah our heart are based in two types a man and women>>113751
now the problem is the racism
on this site
I'm not even joking>>113751
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>>113755>Trans women get beat up and murdered often
this isn't true for the average tumblr or twitter tranny, it's skewed by the percentage of them that are involved in prostitution
so ya if you're a tranny prostitute (or any kind of prostitute) you'll have a hard time but if you're a trust fund twitter activist in portland you're much safer than the average cis scum
The ones who start transitioning super young seem to be able to pass well, but most haven't fully grown up yet so it's hard to tell how well they'll pass in the future.
Not trying to make this a debate over whether or not transitioning That young is good or bad, I just think we'll see more passing mtf now.
Except most of the time they are passable, feminity isn't just about looks anyway, it's about how you present yourself, behave, talk and the aura you let off to those around you. trans-woman do threaten both cis men and cis women because cis men see MtF as 'losing' one of there own and cis woman see it as added competition which causes both to turn to hatred.
Why are you bringing FtM into this when we're discussing the treatment of trans women? Anyway, it's seems cis men are more accepting of FtM than cis woman are of MtF
I don't hate trans "women" and they certainly don't make me insecure.
These people are just men in dresses with a mental illness. No amount of braying from the SJW crowd will change that.
Having a mental illness is rough, and not seeking treatment because your peers are telling you you're not sick just compounds the issue and you end up with people with mutilated genitals who end up killing themselves. I pity them more than anything.
Trannies are the ultimate practice gfs. I know what you're thinking, but please let me make my case.
>ultra low expectations, all you have to do is not fetishize their dicks and they'll be all over you>extremely submissive, won't be able to turn down your advances>due to their imitation of REAL female nature (kind of disgusting to be honest but you're just there to get exp and get out) they're very easy to test different things out- all they do is study how to seem like a girl, so they won't notice how unnatural and varied your approach is
And the best part? Clean up. No need to ghost them, pretend to be boring, reveal your power level (they're so desperate they'd stay even if you went full /pol/)- ALL YOU HAVE TO DO
>make them kill themselves
No mess, no slow fade, no one alive to talk shit about what a jerk you are. And it's SOOOO easy too. I mean, they'd probably end their pathetic lives on their own anyways, since the freaks are so wont to do, but you can accelerate the process.
>point out every masculine thing about them and act like it's their responsibility to fix it>point out REAL girls that are more attractive than them- even if the girl is ugly to REALLY crush them>touch their dick if they hate it>ignore their dick if they like it>talk about wanting children>they won't leave a note because they know nobody cares
Afterward everyone will give you sympathy too, which is a great way to move onto a REAL girl.
It's all those abominations are good for.
Come on, surely you can do better bait than pretending to be some super edgy master manipulator, right?
Pro-tip. Anyone who's capable of being so manipulative they could push someone to suicide is perfectly capable of being social enough to look after themselves as far as relationships go, you're not an autist. You wouldn't need a practice gf, you'd need a therapist.
Bad bait either way though.>>113748
I don't have any strong feelings towards them honestly, people should be able to make whatever choices they like as long as it doesn't stop others doing the same.
And actually transitioning does reduce their suicide rate drastically, and is much harder to actually have done than just walking into a doctors and saying you're trans and want a sex change, it takes years of therapy and other treatments being tried first to determine that it's purely gender dysphoria causing your issues, and that it can't be helped any other way. After that, if nothing does, sure, they should be able to transition, I don't see why anyone would care really.
Exactly. Which is why it was absolutely hilarious when the SocJus brigade declared that Garlic Bread meme about there being two genders was "transphobic"
And yes that's a real thing that actually happened. Http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/14/garlic-bread-genders-meme-facebook-causes-transpho/
Nope, I'm definately a feminist and I support LGB people. But the thing is that trans people by nature clash with the ideals of feminism and yet too many feminists are afraid to speak up against it. I keep reading thay trans people are only 2% of the population whereas women are 50% of the population. They need to bully women (particularly feminists) into including them to increase their numbers, spread their word and draw more attention to their movement.
Trans women have the same amount of entitlement and aggression as cis men. They feel entitled to using our bathrooms, disregarding our discomfort because surely a ~petite, delicate~ little trans woman's feelings are more important than a woman's?
In any feminist community I've seen, they're always making their struggles out to be more difficult than any cis woman. They'll constantly try to make the conversation about them, just like aggressive meninists do. Even topics about periods, childbirth, breastfeeding, female masturbation… they feel the need to cut in to say "Well I'm a trans woman so I don't experience this but here in my opinion…" but GOD FORBID you have any opinion on trans matters, you privileged cis scum!
The entire trans movement is based on shaming and guilting others and I can't stand it. I've had a lesbian friend come to me in tears because people had told her off for not finding trans women attractive, that she wasn't accepting them and couldn't look past their body parts. How is that any different from idealology of the disgusting fucks who run "gay conversion" centres? Either way she's being forced into pretending she's attracted to something she's not to gain approval from some group or another. Fuck that.
I'll respect any friend who comes to me and says "Hey I'm trans" or "Hey can you start calling me this instead?" because I love them but no way in hell am I going to bend over backwards for some stranger who demands I treat them special or who feels entitled to spaces designed for women.
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Is gender is just a social contract then does dysphoria exist?
Anon, social constructs mean that they exist purely in the psychological, they may not exist in the same way in another society, or even another person. Without people to experience and define them, they don't exist.
The same as there's evolutionarily speaking no real reason to look like some fashion model, yet we all like to try to aspire to that. It's a social construct, because that look that's popular now probably wasn't 50 years ago (how many 60's haircuts do you see today?), yet we all view it as desirable and something to achieve. Well, most people do.
Some people drive themselves to insanity because they don't look like the in thing, they live their lives obsessing over it and being miserable, and for some, therapy doesn't help, so they can have surgery provided (yes, this is a thing that they do in rare cases).
Same goes for trans people. Sure, gender is a social construct, but it's still absolutely real in someones mind, and when someone obsesses over them being the wrong gender to the point it's a serious stress for them, they're considered to have gender dysphoria.
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Tumblr trannies gtfo.
Literally every argument you just gave against trans woman are the same as I've seen from anti feminists on twitterand YouTube, you even dropped the T from LGBT but of course your not transphobic.
As for your lesbian friend, it's fine if she's not attracted to a trans woman in particular but to rule out all trans woman just because they were once male IS transphobic, if she met a trans woman who looks exactly the same as whoever she fantasises about and has the right personality, is she just going to turn them down because at one point in their life they were male? Surely you can see why this is a problem.
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go away john>>113767
Nice deflecting of my point, you've pretty much confirmed that your pro prejudice, what your saying is no different of what people were saying about blacks 100 years ago.
Also nice trying to make me look like bad, I never said anyone HAS to have sex with anyone but refusing a relationship because of what someone was in the past IS prejudice just like a male refusing to go with a women because of who or how many people she had sex with in the past IS also prejudice.
You CAN have 'preference' (prejudice) but don't then don't wonder why people dislike you and don't want to be around you.>>113831
Not all trans woman want to have sex with cis lesbian woman, that's a lie. But how is it weird than a LESBIAN trans woman wants to be with a Lesbian cis woman? Or either another lesbian trans woman?
Apologies, but that is a long ass source, so I just skimmed it, but I didn't see any mention of suicide rates in there at all?
As opposed to these sources for my point of view>http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm
Sources contained within, including an interview with the author of the study that the claim it doesn't work comes from
Here's a quote>It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexual persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even worse without sex reassignment. As an analogy, similar studies have found increased somatic morbidity, suicide rate, and overall mortality for patients treated for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. This is important information, but it does not follow that mood stabilizing treatment or antipsychotic treatment is the culprit
And also>The aim of trans medical interventions is to bring a trans person’s body more inline with their gender identity, resulting in the measurable diminishment of their gender dysphoria. However trans people as a group also experience significant social oppression in the form of bullying, abuse, rape and hate crimes. Medical transition alone won’t resolve the effects of crushing social oppression: social anxiety, depression and posttraumatic stress.>resulting in the measurable diminishment of their gender dysphoria.
And just in case you don't read it, here are some more (taken from it admittedly)>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24344788>A difference in SCL-90 overall psychoneurotic distress was observed at the different points of assessments (P = 0.003), with the most prominent decrease occurring after the initiation of hormone therapy (P < 0.001). Significant decreases were found in the subscales such as anxiety, depression, interpersonal sensitivity, and hostility. Furthermore, the SCL-90 scores resembled those of a general population after hormone therapy was initiated.
>http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10508-009-9551-1>At index and follow-up, a semi-structured interview was conducted. At follow-up, 32 patients had completed sex reassignment surgery, five were still in process, and five—following their own decision—had abstained from genital surgery. No one regretted their reassignment. The clinicians rated the global outcome as favorable in 62% of the cases, compared to 95% according to the patients themselves, with no differences between the subgroups.>In conclusion, almost all patients were satisfied with the sex reassignment; 86% were assessed by clinicians at follow-up as stable or improved in global functioning.
>https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/hormonal-therapy-and-sex-reassignment-a-systematic-review-and-met>Pooling across studies shows that after sex reassignment, 80% of individuals with GID reported significant improvement in gender dysphoria (95% CI = 68-89%; 8 studies; I 2 = 82%); 78% reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms (95% CI = 56-94%; 7 studies; I 2 = 86%); 80% reported significant improvement in quality of life (95% CI = 72-88%; 16 studies; I 2 = 78%); and 72% reported significant improvement in sexual function (95% CI = 60-81%; 15 studies; I 2 = 78%).
>https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/960745/>The qualitative results similarly suggest generally good psychological adjustment amongst all participants. All participants reported being satisfied with their decision to undergo SRS and with the way the operation was performed. They reported being highly motivated to match their physical bodies with their gender identities and had decided to undergo the SRS procedure despite unfavorable psychosocial circumstances. Although they expressed certain fears before the surgery, participants asserted that these fears were not realized. In general, participants are well regarded in their social surroundings and are highly functional>A recent meta-analysis indicated that transition leads to a significant increase in quality of life for 80% of TS persons and a decrease in psychological disturbances in cases where such disturbances had been present before transition
>http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0453-5>The aim of this study was to re-examine individuals with gender identity disorder after as long a period of time as possible. To meet the inclusion criterion, the legal recognition of participants’ gender change via a legal name change had to date back at least 10 years. The sample comprised 71 participants (35 MtF and 36 FtM). The follow-up period was 10–24 years with a mean of 13.8 years (SD = 2.78)>Very few participants were unemployed, most of them had a steady relationship, and they were also satisfied with their relationships with family and friends. Their overall evaluation of the treatment process for sex reassignment and its effectiveness in reducing gender dysphoria was positive. Regarding the results of the standardized questionnaires, participants showed significantly fewer psychological problems and interpersonal difficulties as well as a strongly increased life satisfaction at follow-up than at the time of the initial consultation
>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23553588_Long-term_Assessment_of_the_Physical_Mental_and_Sexual_Health_among_Transsexual_Women>Satisfaction with gender-related bodily features as well as with perceived female appearance; importance of sex, relationship quality, necessity and advisability of gynecological exams, as well as health concerns and feelings of regret concerning transition were scored. Compared with reference populations, transsexual women scored good on physical and mental level (SF-36). Gender-related bodily features were shown to be of high value. Appreciation of their appearance as perceived by others, as well as their own satisfaction with their self-image as women obtained a good score (8 and 9, respectively). However, sexual functioning as assessed through FSFI was suboptimal when compared with biological women, especially the sublevels concerning arousal, lubrication, and pain. Superior scores concerning sexual function were obtained in those transsexual women who were in a relationship and in heterosexuals. Transsexual women function well on a physical, emotional, psychological and social level. With respect to sexuality, they suffer from specific difficulties, especially concerning arousal, lubrication, and pain.
Apologies if I double quoted any of those studies, I may have gotten my links mixed up. Should be right though.
Hope this helped educate you.
It's pretty weird how many MtFs are lesbians.
If they really have the brain of a woman, you'd expect them to be attracted to men more often.
No it doesn't, XXY disproves that. And by the logic your using, people with an extra chromosome aren't even human, so don't talk about stuff hardly understand.>>113845
Your literally confirming what I said about social constructs, the fact that so many people can't fit into them just shows how damaging they are.
you can play these semantic games all you want, but it will never change the fact that your appearance and behaviour make it clear that you're not a real woman. keep waffling about 'but, like, what is
a woman, really?' you might not be able to justify it intellectually but the primitive animal parts of our brains observe how you look, move, and act and discern that you were born with a penis. no cis lesbian in her right mind would ever date you, and the only men who are interested in you are fetishists who want to use you as a sex object.
no, the cis lesbian can tell you were born male. you might think you pass as a woman because the cashier at walmart calls you ma'am and all your tumblr friends say you're pretty, but they're just being polite. the only time mtf's manage to look remotely feminine is if they started hormones before puberty, and even then, their voice and mannerisms out them as male.
cis women face abuse and objectification from men, but most of them are still straight because you don't get to decide your sexual orientation
I dropped the T because it's irrelivant to sexuality?
I personally don't care, I'm bisexual and I love people regardless of what genitals they have. But you're saying that my lesbian friend needs to pleasure someone who she is not attracted to just to seek approval from assholes like you? Do you even see how fucking awful and traumatising that is?
She was fucking shaking and crying and you actually want people to go through with that just to prove something to you? >>113826
It was hard enough for her to come out to her friends and family and now she has to deal with assholes who don't even accept her for who she is and are supposed to be on her side.
Pressuring her to have sex with someone she isn't attracted to is fucking disgusting imo. It's exactly what anti-gay extremists would want her to do in order to "fix into society". It's rape and it would traumatise her.
>>113748>we're all in the same boat here
we're not since men and women aren't the same.
Also, trannies in general are mentally ill. A doctor can tell the child's sex from the mother's blood sample in the second trimester. It's not just a matter of 'a woman's brain in a man's body', sex isn't a sliding scale, to date there are two (2) sexes and you're either one or the other. It has nothing to do with gender roles or what you would prefer.
There is literally no comparison. Discriminating against someone due to their past partners is on the basis that they're "dirty" which is not a fact. We're trans women once men and do they have penises and other masculine body parts? Yes, that is a fact. See the difference?
Attraction is based on a million different things. But I'm guessing you're a trans woman and like men, feel entitled to women's bodies. The thought that a lesbian might not be attracted to you enfuriates you.
You can be attracted/unattracted to someone based on their smell. Is thay discrimination? No it's natural. Maybe it's a weird concept for a trans person who believes gender is "an act", do you feel like sexuality is "an act" too? Because I can tell you right now thay we don't get to chose who we're attached to.
So she was shaking and crying for being called transphobic as if she was the victim? Not even taking into account the person she was being transphobic too when trans women have the highest suicide rate in the world?
And again I didn't say she HAD to have sex with a trans woman, I was saying that she shouldn't judge someone for what they were born as, she's probably got things in her past she wouldn't be want to be judged for as well.
i'm sure you have sexual preferences. let's say that you aren't attracted to obese people. if this isn't true just replace it with whatever turns you off. surely you'd find it inappropriate if you turned an obese person down and they started screaming that you're a fatphobic bigot? sexual preferences are not rational, you do not choose what you are attracted to, and it's extremely rude (at best) to insinuate that someone else's preferences are invalid.
to be honest, you sound just like some MRA whining that women are shallow whores for not wanting to date him.
She is a victim? A group of friends in a community that was supposed to support her completely turned against her. Are you saying a member of the queer community should be cut off from their support thanks to a few people who are angry they can't fuck her? What the fuck?
It'd got nothing to do with someone's past. If she doesn't like the way they look, act, smell, speak…it's completely within her right to admit she's not attracted to them. And she certainly doesn't have to be attracted to someone who feels ENTITLED to her body. She's not attracted to a floral skirt or someone who wears lipstick. She's attracted biologically and physically to women for whatever reason and I respect that.
Anyone who pressures her into dating or having sex with someone she isn't attracted to is disgusting. You're disgusting. You're literally saying people have to by putting pressure on people.
>>113872>If she doesn't like the way they look, act, smell, speak
Not that anon, but being trans isn't always as immediately visible as any of those things.
If she met a really pretty girl with a personality that matched hers perfectly, and then fell in love with her, but found out she used to have male genitals and go by a male name, it'd be pretty prejudcied to drop her on that basis alone.
>>113846>the fact that so many people can't fit into them just shows how damaging they are.
So you agree social constructs are bad. That's what YOU said,>how damaging they are
Now, on to your previous post:>>113842>AND WHAT MAKES SOMEONE A 'REAL GIRL'? Social constructs>Social constructs make someone a real girl
Is what you said. Put both of these together and you get:>the thing that makes cis and trans girls female is damaging
So how the fuck can you defend the trans fuckery? Why would you defend something damaging?
Before you make assumptions, this is my first post ITT and my personal opinion on the matter is that dysphoria is a thing and changing the body to mimic that of a biological female is fine. I just hate how trans women love the idea of femininity and act creepy about it, like they have a fetish for being a 50's housewife.
>>113877>it doesn't matter if it's prejudiced or not.
Aren't those in the LGB meant to be fighting against prejudice? Why would they agree with or tolerate it in the group just because it's coming from "one of them"?
And no one's forcing anything. You're making it out to be like "your friend" was forced to get gangraped by a bunch of trannies just because people didn't agree with her and kiss her ass when she openly admitted to being prejudiced.
Agree that what is stupid? I think people should have the right to classify themselves however they like, because in the end, gender (not sex, gender) is socially constructed. If it makes that person comfortable, aids their overall mental health and they're not infringing upon your rights, why are you against it?
The only somewhat logical argument I could think of is "But they can't have children", and even that 1) implies that infertile/barren cis women somehow don't count as women 2) reduces women and the concept of being female to mere reproductive potential, which is pretty misogynistic.
i'm not the person with the lesbian friend btw.
if transgender people want to fight against prejudice and discrimination maybe they should focus on violence, discriminatory laws, etc. instead of trying to control what goes on in people's bedrooms. interracial marriage became accepted because of the civil rights movement and changes in society's attitudes towards race, not because black people kept insisting that racist whites fuck them
Once again you don't understand what I'm saying. If you went I went my whole life not attracted to obese people, that would be prejudice. But then one day i talk to an obese person and fell in love with them, it would be completely out of my control, even though I was prejudice against them all my life, i was wrong to be prejudice because who im attracted to INDIVIDUALLY is beyond my control, I was prejudice against obese people as a COLLECTIVE. In this case the same applies to lesbian woman who are prejudice against trans woman. Maybe as a collective your not attracted to trans woman but would the lesbian woman turn me down even though she fell in love? Just because she was prejudice in the past?>>113881
And as you said about black people, lots of members of KKK end up falling in love with blacks even though they are racist and prejudice against them
I don't disagree with that, but that doesn't make that anon's friend somehow not prejudiced just because there are worse things going on. There shouldn't be room for acceptance for such things in an organization literally formed to fight against discrimination.
It's not like every single trans activist and group singlehandedly put all their political power into lobbying against her, either, it just sounds like she got into a discussion and people were like "lol no" when she tried to defend an obviously prejudiced mindset. That's not a bad thing, and there's no reason to try and derail the discussion because "W-Well, there's more pressing matters!"
you're assuming that someone who by and large isn't attracted to obese/trans/whatever people would eventually find a member of that group that they are
actually attracted to? that's… unlikely, at the very least. you could say the same thing about a gay man suddenly falling in love with a random woman or whatever. you're presenting an absurd hypothetical situation as if it's fact
>>113880>gender (not sex, gender) is socially constructed. If it makes that person comfortable, aids their overall mental health and they're not infringing upon your rights, why are you against it?
BECAUSE GENDER ROLES ARE BAD
How can that possibly be such a hard concept to grasp that nobody pro-trans ever even addresses it? Or is the lack of attention due to the fact that there is no possible response, that you really do stand up FOR gender roles, despite the fact that they hurt both men and women?
I have never met a trans person who passes 100% as the gender they present as. It's always obvious.
If she met someone who was her dream girl she might be ROMANTICALLY attracted to her, sure. But sexually? Probably not.
You sound young and maybe the thought of dating someone because they're romantically attractive to you is appealing. Sure you can hold hands with and go on dates with people you're not even sexually attracted to just because it's fun.
But sex is a different thing. That's why they call it a "sexuality". When she says she's a lesbian she's saying she's romantically and SEXUALLY attracted to women. Biological women. Gays, lesbians and bisexuals existed before the modern definition of "trans" people and they have always referred to biological (cis) men/women.
You don't get to change the definition or chose what someone is attracted to just because you can't see things from their perspective.
Gender roles aren't bad, they're what has kept pretty much all civilizations in progress since the dawn of humankind.
Forced identities and duties with no room for self-expression whatsoever are what's bad.
>>113890>I have never met a trans person who passes 100% as the gender they present as. It's always obvious.
Unless you're always looking through people's pants whenever you see them, you have no way of knowing.
If she still has breasts and a vagina, what the fuck are you even talking about "sexually"?>inb4 "but they're not real!"
So this friend also couldn't possibly ever date a woman who had surgery on her breasts or labiaplasty (or even just remotely odd-looking breasts/genitals) because her sexuality disallows it? Ho hum.
ok but what if i don't fall in love with a trans woman because i'm not attracted to trans women
? you can claim that a post-op trans woman is indistinguishable from a cis woman but that's just not true. even if their appearance, voice, and demeanor were indistinguishable from a cis woman (which almost never happens), sex reassignment surgery isn't at the point where they can recreate a vagina. trans "vaginas" don't self-lubricate, are made of granulation tissue (basically a scab) rather than healthy epithelium, need frequent dilation so they don't close up, and usually don't even look like a normal vagina from the outside. what if i don't want to have sex with that? it's not any different from turning a guy down for having a micropenis or a girl for having a stinky pussy or w/e
My view on "trans issues"
-I have no problem calling people what they want, it doesn't affect me. If you want to be called him/her/they IDC
-I don't really know how I feel about their being a "third gender" ("non binary gender") but honestly I don't think It's a big deal if someone wants to be called "they". In some cultures there are third genders so idk how I feel about it really. That being said it's not a huge issue in my life or a big moral issue if someone wants to be called this.
-I do think a lot of "trans" MTF are perverts, I've met two of these who aren't exactly "female" but more like its a fetish to them.
-I have been close to a MTF trans person who was a totally normal "Girl". She doesn't have a weird cross dressing fetish, passes pretty well, does her makeup/hair, has a lot of girl friend etc.
As per the bathroom Issue, I think having a single room bathroom that can be used for anyone who wants to use it including trans people. This way no one feels uncomfortable (cis men or women can use their own bathrooms, trans people get their own and have privacy/safer for everyone imo)
I do think it gets to retard point when people are like "I indenitify as a demi fox kin race" or whatever but I've never met anyone like this.
I also don't think trans women can speak over biological women on womens issues. they did not live as a woman so they really don't have much say in that. In things such as abortion, breastfeeding, etc.
I also think that when a trans women enters something for the first time, she should be known as "the first TRANS women to do x" vs "the first biological woman".
Trans people promote gender roles much harder than "cis" people. It's embarrassing to me that trans women think being a woman is about dressing like a prostitute.
I'd say the same about trans men but from my experience they're really quiet and polite so…
I didn't think you needed a serious response, since you don't understand the simple idea that sexual preferences aren't an "opinion". You don't get to override someone's consent because you think your opinion is better than theirs.>>113906
Romantic and sexual interaction are intertwined. Unless you're both asexual, you're going to have an extremely hard time maintaining a romantic relationship with someone you aren't sexually attracted to.
Yes, preferences are an opinion (preferring one thing over the other is a matter of one's own thoughts, which is, yes, an opinion), and they can be prejudiced. Stop trying to conflate sexual preferences with sexual orientation. It's not a package deal. They are not the same. There are lesbians who like things that other lesbians don't.
No one is overriding anyone's consent just because they don't bend over and worship every decision they make. Your friend can continue to not fuck trans women because no one really cares what a singular individual does, but you should stop trying to force people to feel horrible for not agreeing with the obvious prejudiced, shitty opinions rooted within that preference.
Omg clearly obvious trans woman, just stop. You can't make someone attracted to you. If you can't get your head around thay maybe you should shut up and listen to people who are supposedly "on your side".
Literally no woman is attracted to "breasts and a vagina" (but idk considering you were a man and probably also a virgin, maybe that's your definition of sexuality).
I can tell a woman is trans by her jaw, shoulders, height, large waist, small hips, foot size, lack of curves, stubble, voice…a million little ways. If you honestly think people don't automatically know you're trans, then you're delusional.
>>113916>Omg clearly obvious trans woman,
Um, no. I'm just not a fucking idiot lmao.
"Everyone who disagrees with my bullshit ideas MUST be a tranny in disguise!"
The rest of your post is more of the same bullshit, but I will say there are cis women who have most of those traits, and trans women who do not because people are different. Maybe when you mature past the mental age of 5, you'll realize that.
She's not obliged to accept their opinions when they discriminate against her!
She doesn't have to change who she is to feel accepted by manipulators who might dress like a women but still think like men and are mad she won't worship their penises! :)
What are you even talking about? Now you're just spewing words that are like…vaguely related to the topic but don't actually connect at all. You sound psychotic. No one is obliged to accept anyone's opinions, just stop attacking everyone who doesn't worship your own opinions lol.>inb4 "Psychotic?! OBVIOUSLY a man, men always say women are crazy when they disagree with them…">>113920>So you think lesbians are attracted to the social construct of a woman? Lipstick and dresses?
Literally what. When did I say that?>lets be real most tran males don't cut their junk off
Not sure about that, statistically. >And Neither does a festering wound that once was a penis aka 'neo vagina'.
This is actually a good point, but this argument becomes bunk when MtF genital surgery advances and becomes less shitty.
When you said a lesbian hypothetically falling in love with a mtf is transphobic when she becomes unattracted to them when they find out they're male.
And again lets be real, this is some serious strawman of a supposedly mythical super passing mtf that can fool a lesbian right up until she sees their penis.
Except I do, because it was described pretty clearly in >>113816
. Or are you going to make up some elaborate story of the person being accosted and forced to out their opinions on trans people, then were subsequently abused for it?
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/r9k tier cis bi male here, this thread makes me angry not at women but at trannys, I'm ugly and never asked to be born this way, I've even advertised my self on Craigslist to men and women and still no one wanted me. These trannies think they're entitled and people should sympathise with them because of they're fetish, because they like to be degraded and emulate whatever their idea of feminity is. They're shaming actual lesbians for not wanted to have sex with them, I thought about becoming a trap for a while to maybe get sexual attention but I have never tried to guilt people into wanting sex with me, not even I have gone that low.
Em once again I think thay was meant for me and yet you're talking to another person.
Everyone should have access to a support group. Certain members shouldn't be able to bully you out of it just because they don't agree with you. Those members don't get to define your sexuality. Those members sure as hell don't get to dictate what you do in bed or shame you for not doing said thing.
But that's LGBT communities for you!
Then even in that case that person is not a lesbian. They are not the same sex as a female. Period.
And ps brain sex is not proven (in fact it is decisively not true) the zhou et al study was absolutely terribly designed and studied trans males after years if hormones.
Again, this "Trannies are ALWAYS obvious" narrative is pretty retarded, considering there are trans people who aren't obvious (and of course, you wouldn't be able to point it out unless they went out of their way to tell you precisely because they pass).
It's a false dilemma, and really dumb.
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At best trannies are disgusting fetishists, at worst mentally ill. The only thing they need is treatment, not mutilating their bodies permanently for a temporary high that will never sustain itself and lead to depression and suicide, which will then be blamed on actual women who want these pigs to stay the fuck out of our shit, out of our bathrooms, out of our changing rooms, and out of our fucking gender.
How is your presumption any better? I say the majority are easily outed but you say they aren't.
The only difference is my view makes sense.
statistically, the average mtf transitioned at middle age. Puberty is over and their male bodies are unambiguous. You think a 40 year old mtf can pass so perfectly as you describe? Your views are mot realistic, only idealistic.
If lesbians aren't attracted to people based on their body parts, or their gender presentation (e.g. butch lesbians aren't feminine but some lesbians are still attracted to them), what do you think they are
attracted to? Some indefinable sense of being a woman? If a big, burly, hairy man with a dick says that he feels like a woman inside, should lesbians be attracted to him?
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Literally all I did was Google "passable trans woman". >>113962
You outright said there isn't such a thing as a passing trans woman, not just that the majority don't pass. That does not make sense.
Look there is lots of speculation about what went on above. This isn't my blog.
The group doesn't exist to force rules about who should fuck who. The group is in place to support young people who might have been rejected by their friends or family (which is kind of ironic huh). Cutting someone off from that kind of support when they could be lonely, homeless or even risk being fired is disgusting.
If she ran into the building, shouting about how she's not attracted to trans people in order to hurt people I'd think "Shit, she deserved that!" This was private. Among people she knew for a long time.
Also focusing on this was just a way to draw attention from my original comment, which was that trans people wouldn't have any support if it weren't for the fact that they bully/guilt feminists and the LGB people into accepting them and speaking on their behalf.
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>>113966>that brow bone>that jawline>that nose structure
Sorry but just cutting off your cock doesn't make you a female. Every part of your body is male right down to your bones.
>>113971>>113977>Still has quite the manface
No, she doesn't. What are you talking about? Pretty sure if I told you she was cis after all and not trans, you'd immediately feel retarded for that comment.
Here's an actual video. >>113970
Keep moving the goalposts, anon.>>113973
Funny since you can search "transgender vlog" or just look up random tags to do with trans people on IG/Tumblr and find evidence that points to the opposite.>>113972
Whatever helps you sleep at night. If you're the anon I replied to, your argument was "There isn't one", period. Not "I can post more pictures".
Still on that "All REAL women agree with me, if you disagree with me you're a tranny" defense, I guess.
Just go ahead and ask for a vagina pic already
lol, so true.
This is retarded.
Anon, if you want validation, maybe go somewhere else.
Nope, still not a tranny. Still sorry no one's going to remove the "T" from LGBT because your friend was disagreed with that one time and then cried about it.>>113985
holy shit, finally someone in this nauseating thread i can agree with
like, if someone is just a drag queen/fetishist, or is making people call them xey/xie made up special snowflake otherkin-level pronouns, those are entirely different stories from actual, legitimate trans people who have to deal with shitty life-ruining dysphoria and it amazes me that you can't separate those very different types of situations and respect an actual trans person. i don't rly believe the NB agender thing either but i've got friends who prefer to identify as that (2 of them are girls who have been raped or had sexual trauma in their childhoods so idk i feel like it might be a way of coping with fucked up shit that happened to them) and if calling them they makes them more comfortable why should i give a flying fuck? it's their life. i understand that anon with the lesbian friend who felt attacked for her sexual preferences, but why would you take that scenario and blame all pre-op trans girls for that as if every MTF is just trying to trick every lesbian on the planet into sex? why do yall care so fucking much when it doesn't affect you?? at all? ?whatsoever???
i agree with the majority of anon opinions on lolcow but goddamn the whole throwing the word "tranny" around and assuming every single transgender person is in it for attention to the point of purposefully disrespecting simple shit like normal pronouns makes me so uncomfortable. i feel like i'm on some MRA forum, like i realize we're all anonymous here but is it impossible to wish for people to chill with the over the top misplaced hatred?
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Nobody but a tranny would be so butthurt
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you 2 brianna :^)
Well, this thread went from 0 to catfight real quick.>>113987
Can mostly agree, but even trannies throw around the word tranny a lot. (Source: being friends with multiple)
Did you make that yourself?>saving pictures of trannies and knowing them by name
Seems like you're obsessed with trans women tbh.
Literally who? The thread on her hasn't been bumped in years.
Keep dumping from your tranny folder, I guess.
Yeah youre right gamer gate wasnt a big deal at all. Didnt get any coverage.
Youre so delusional, anon. Gotta protect those fragile tranny fee fees tho right? Cant have anything burst your bubble that you arent a special passing totally real woman snowflake. Girls have dicks dont let anyone tell you otherwise :^)
The>Literally no woman is attracted to "breasts and a vagina"
Thank you for finally admitting that you literally have no idea what lesbian women are attracted to and therefore have no right to dictate what you "think" they should.
That's all we needed, have a good night to all xxxxx
Jfc I was saying that nobody is attracted exclusively to a pair of tits and a vag. There's a person attached to them.
It was in response to your moronic comment that if someone has the two then what more could a lesbian possibly want sexually? (Hint: a lot more you fucking virgin) Which again makes it obvious that you're a man or a trans woman because literally only someone will male hormones could see women as two bags of fat and a hole and be satisfied sexually by that.
Lesbians aren't attracted to you, get over it.
And it seems i was right >>114034
How simplistic do you habr to think to not get their point? Mtf try too fucking hard to find loopholes its creepy and transparent
The person you're responding to isn't even me lmao.
But I said that if a MtF woman looks exactly like a cis woman outwardly and sexually, the idea that there would be problems with the relationship sexually wouldn't hold up.
The rest of the shit you're saying is retarded strawmen because for whatever reason you're obsessed with trans women and dicks, and the idea that I'm a trans woman.
Here's my big take on the whole matter.
First off, I want to state that I do not hate transgendered people. I do not believe they should be harassed or killed or anything because they are transgendered. I think it is sad I have to preface my opinion with this, but there you go.
I do not believe in brain sex, firstly because the study upon which people lay all their evidence, was done on post mortem brains of mtf that had been on hormones for I think some as long as 40 years. Naturally their brain structures started to change. But if you take two infants, male and female, and scan their brain, you wouldn't know which was which. Brain differences develop due to mostly hormonal differences, and males and females produce different quantities of hormones. Thus, a the brain of a transgendered teenage boy doesn't look like a girls brain until he is on hormone therapy, and even then, for many many years. Now, this is reducing biological differences between men and women down to just brain differences, which is incorrect.
There are a host of other biological characteristics that make one male or female, primary and secondary sex traits, and so on. My point in saying all of this isn't to be an asshole, and again, I do not hate or even dislike, transgendered people. I just don't believe they are the sex they feel they are.
I believe they suffer terribly from a mental illness, and absolutely funds should be put towards helping them find relief in a way that doesn't hurt their bodies, such as surgery. Yes, suicide rates drop after SRS, but actually, after several years, goes back up. It is not a long term viable solution to help people. I believe transgendered people deserve better.
I believe behavioral/psychiatric therapies and medications should be researched to help their dysphoria/dysmoprhia, but money all seems to be going towards hormones and surgeries, which is a travesty, especially since children are now getting thrown into all this.
I don't appreciate recent attempts to break down woman only environments, like locker rooms and battered women shelters, and women only colleges, by the mainstream transgendered ideology. But I recognize a lot of transgendered people probably don't support the mainstream ideology either.
End of the day, no, I don't consider them a woman anymore than I consider a schizophrenic person really being followed by the FBI, but I wouldn't go up to either of them and deliberately try and upset them.
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I hate the argument 'B-but not all trannies are crazy perverts!' like >>113964
It's complete horseshit, like people that want to fuck animals and the excuse is that they 'feel' like they're a dog or horse. It's still sick and wrong, doesn't matter how you feel. You should be happy with what God gave you. If you have a perfectly healthy body and you want to mutilate and destroy it with makeshift genitalia surgery and drugs just so you can 'feel' like the gender you want to be, go fuck yourself. There are plenty of people who got fucked over with diseases and deformities who would be perfectly happy to trade places with you.
Giant fake tits, blonde extensions, lip fillers, tons of makeup, destroying their genitals and fucking with your hormones, and dressing and acting like a slut does not make a man a woman, and it never will.
>>114048>There is not a transwoman alive that looks outwardly and sexually just like a cis woman.
There are, though. This discussion is going in circles because you keep plugging your ears and repeating the exact same shit regardless of being proven wrong.
Also, being a woman is about being born that way and presenting as such to the general populace, and that's pretty much it. The first one doesn't matter as much socially if the second one is fulfilled. Biologically? Yes, it does. In any other aspect, not really. Arguing that the way society treats you is what makes you a woman is way too broad and naive. Women have all sorts of roles in different societies, and different ways of being treated. Oppression of some sort (even on a small scale) is basically the most uniform trend, but attributing oppression to an identity is fucked up. I'm sure that if an entire society treated a man in a way you attribute with how a woman is treated, you'd still insist it was a man despite ~the way society treats you is what makes you a woman uwu~.
Anyway, this shit's dragging on, and I'm bored of it. Goodnight and good luck.
You're the one with a flimsy deifnition of a woman that anyone can opt into and out of. your definition is garbage, but you have to use it that way so no one has their feelings hurt.
There is no neo-vagina that isn't a festering wound where a penis once was. Thems the breaks.
>being a woman is about being born that way and presenting as such to the general populace, and that's pretty much it. The first one doesn't matter as much socially if the second one is fulfilled.
So butch lesbians aren't womenn? They are treated just like men, huh? They don't face hatred and discrimination because of how they present as women? You're so deluded. It's sad.
How is it flimsy when I literally just said it depends on how you're born and how you're perceived by the rest of the world? That's literally common sense. Butch lesbians usually still look like women unless you're fucking blind lmao.
I'm sorry you're so delusional you can't accept that. Keep obsessing over "neo-vaginas", penises and Brianna Wu.
Alright, now I'm really leaving. Continue samefagging.
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No because no matter how much surgery they get they're still going to be women. You're fucking retarded. I'm talking about men who get surgery to turn into their mock fetish fantasy of what a woman looks like, not women that are insecure and want to look more attractive. Men who get those surgeries are trying to be creepy imitations.
As someone who has done considerable research on trans women specifically, the right wing fag on here almost has a point.
I do believe gender dysphoria is real, and that men who transition in to women for all intents and purposes are women, and should be treated as such.
However, there is a concept known as "autogynephilia" which involves the fetishization of being a woman, and in some cases is more of a motivating factor to transition than gender dysphoria. It sounds creepy at the surface, but the more I studied it, the more it seemed to contribute to the need/desire to be living as a woman full time. These people hate living in their bodies as men. To the point of being nearly suicidal. They try EVERYTHING else before transitioning. Anything they can to be more of a "man". These people are more likely to be firefighters, for example (extremely masculine profession), be a "guy's guy," marry and have a family in order to suppress it. Therapy. Nothing works. These people are also more likely to transition later in life. The fetitization of womanhood at a young age contributes to this, but it is not the underlying cause of their gender identity.
The point is, nothing else helps them. They need to transition to feel like themselves. We try to imagine feeling this way but we just can't. And the more society can be accepting/accomadating of this, the less likely they are to marry someone as a man and decide to transition when they are like, 60, Bruce Jenner style. A chance to actually be their true self at a young age.
Of course I mean this to a point. The SJW I'm a queer-transracial-furrykin and my pronoun is xenu shit is fucking ridiculous and a mockery of the true issues. For every attention seeking type idiot there is a truly hurting person out there who really doesn't want all this, and just wants to be herself.
And I get that you think it's >fucking disgusting.<
Because of course it is, just like it's >fucking disgusting< for them to have their genitals.
The thought of getting your dick chopped off or your vag turned in to a penis is horrific for you, right? Because we are comfortable with the gender and sex we have been given since birth. For them, that horrific image/feeling is as though their dick has been chopped off (or vice versa) at birth without their consent, & that they've been assigned the wrong gender their whole lives.
I meant it as metaphor. Not that they actually feel it, but the pain is as horrific as being assigned a different gender/sex without their consent. >>114097
I would only say this as an anon on this board, but I actually agree with you. I've thought a lot about it since my research and I feel the same way. It DID used to be in the DSM as a mental illness to be treated otherwise. The thing is, I'm not trans, and the community has voices that transitioning helps. I've also seen others, albeit a small minority, say they wish that there was a treatment that allowed them to just live as their assigned gender and be fine with it. Unfortunately, there just isn't anything out there medication or treatment wise that would do that. So idk. It's a very unique issue.
That said, I do wonder where we draw the line. Why was it so taboo when that chick came out over the summer as basically being "transracial," leading her chapter of the NAACP or whatever and basically trying to pass as black. That's completely absurd (and Atlanta did a really great episode making fun of that a few weeks ago btw lol. Everyone should check out that show if they like Childish Gambino/Donald Glover). But why is something like that so absurd, but trans sexuality has come to be accepted? These are the kind of things I wonder about, and don't necessarily have answers for. At least not answers that I feel are 100% reasonably sound.
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She'd be okay if she weren't such a fucking racist.
You'd think you'd at least read the thread before you say shit that's already been proven false.>>114042>Yes, suicide rates drop after SRS, but actually, after several years, goes back up
Can you source this? All the long term studies I've seen (including the ones earlier in the thread) say the opposite.
>I believe behavioral/psychiatric therapies and medications should be researched to help their dysphoria/dysmoprhia, but money all seems to be going towards hormones and surgeries, which is a travesty, especially since children are now getting thrown into all this.
There has been, and it doesn't always work. SRS is a last resort treatment for the most severe cases of gender dysphoria (most people with this aren't full transexuals).>>114096>When the brain thinks the body is the problem, why is it progressive to mutilate a healthy body instead of treating the brain
Because doctors have a responsibility to care for their patients, and if nothing else helps, and this would reduce their distress, they're obligated to do it.
You can have your leg lopped off if you consistently believe for a long period of time that it's making you miserable or is somehow bad, assuming you don't have any other signs of psychosis of course.
If nothing else works, this is the best therapy available.>>114097
Those aren't at all comparable. None of those things reduce the persons distress. An anorexic will just want to be skinnier. A schizophrenic will still be psychotic. A depressed person would be more depressed.
SRS does reduce the distress, and lets them live relatively normal lives.
That's what I'm saying. I dont
know personally, but the mental pain
of being the wrong sex or gender would be comparable to you waking up one day in the body of a man (or woman, whichever you identify as).
The long post above me citing others and offering evidence in favor of what I said earlier hits it head on. I am way too tired right now to get in to a discussion like this. It's heavy stuff. Plus South Park is on soon. Lol
There's dozens of tests and scales that measure mental distress anon.
Sure, it's not an objective science, but it could never be an objective science, because pain is inherently subjective. You can only measure someones experience with it, and that's honestly all that matters.
You're looking at it wrong.
They simply know that their gender feels wrong. Their genitalia and features that define whatever sex they are is highly distressing for them.
For the most severe cases, SRS seriously improves their functioning in every way.
It's not so much about them feeling like the wrong gender as it is being the gender they currently are being highly distressing to them.
And it is a serious stressor for them, it's dumb to say it's not a pain. It's a measurable feeling.
>>113816>I keep reading thay trans people are only 2% of the population >1 tranny in every 50 poeple
Pretty sure what you read is bullshit.>>113835
Fear of cis men shouldn't affect your sexual orientation you abominable imbecile.>>113846
People born with extra fingers and toes exist. Conjoined twins exist. Human anatomy must be a social construct! /s
Forget about whether it's okay for people to not date a tranny because they're a tranny. People may refuse to date anyone for LITERALLY NO FUCKING REASON AT ALL.
having sexual boundaries does not equal transphobia. your oppression does not stem from lesbians not wanting to sleep with you. get your head out of your ass.
it's called SEXualtity for a reason. people are attracted to genitials, not someone's obscure inner identity or pronouns. fuck off.
I don't hate nor care about grown up trans.
What drives me nuts are the ~progressive parents~ who want to pump their kids with hormones the very second they show interest in activities that are "supposed to belong" to the opposite sex
Where have you been this last decade
A little bossy shit even has a docureality on tv to show her "brave journey through transmission" while his parents disregard the rest of his siblings over the mtf little shit.
This thread actually isn't as bad as it could've been with bait and derailing shit. I'm pleasantly surprised by a lot of the civility here and legit exchanges of ideas & even a few people considering other points of view than their own.
With that said, of course a thread like this isn't going to be without its bait, people sperging and shitposters. But it isn't so bad!
And…who might that be? I see no samefagging. Except maybe the tumblrina who keeps insisting that they're multiple people.
But good attempt, 4/10 for effort.
It kind of is though, because there's literally no reason not to support it short of religious reasons (and even then, it's against the basic tenets of Christianity to judge others, I don't know enough about Islam to say).
Even just medically speaking, it helps. You not supporting it is like not supporting ECT or something.
Well, I have to assume that you're the person who deleted their other comment, but come on, the best you can do is "I don't like it because I hate those damn freaks, promise I'm not far right or at all bigoted though"?
And the "Drives them to suicide" thing is a myth that's already been addressed in this thread.
You give us a good reason why we need to give you a reason to not support it first.>>114327>plastic surgery on genitals is medical treatment
If you wanna classify SRS as medical then by definition you're also saying transsexuals are in fact mentally ill. >>114331>you don't support transgenderism>the far right doesn't support transgenderism either >ergo you're far right
Don't break your ankle doing all those leaps in logic, please.
>>114335>You give us a good reason why we need to give you a reason to not support it first.
Because vehemently not supporting something for no reason is retarded when it hurts people?
>If you wanna classify SRS as medical then by definition you're also saying transsexuals are in fact mentally ill.
Well yeah, I've never denied that. SRS is a treatment for a severe form of gender dysphoria, which is a recognised mental illness.
You're ignoring that having a mental illness doesn't actually mean you're necessarily wrong about what you're saying, either. Gender dysphoria is not psychotic in nature, and isn't considered to be a delusional disorder.
>Don't break your ankle doing all those leaps in logic, please.
What other reason do you have? If you can only raise points that are the same ones that the far right use, don't complain about people calling you one of them.
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>>114336>Because vehemently not supporting something for no reason is retarded when it hurts people?
Guess what else ~hurts~ you trannies: 99% of the population will absolutely refuse to date your kind. For ~no reason at all~. Are you going to start demanding them to receive your advances?
>SRS is a treatment for a severe form of gender dysphoria
Wikipedia:>Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the dysphoria (distress) a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth.
A successful treatment for gender dysphoria would make the patients identify as their birth sex. Sounds like SRS doesn't treat gender dysphoria. Now what tranny?
>If you can only raise points that are the same ones that the far right use,
Uh… what points are referring to? Let's see, the biggest reason I hate trannies is because they actively promote gender roles and reduce the female identity to external trappings. Whereas the far right loves gender roles and ~feminine~ woman.
…looks like your own logic just made you and every other tranny a subscriber of the far right, LMAO!
>don't complain about people calling you one of them.
Let me give your malfunctioning pea brain a more obvious example:>bats have wings>birds have wings>therefore bats are birds!
It's been a disorder for a long time now anon, do you really think that they wouldn't have picked up on psychotic features almost immediately if that was what it was?
Going "I bet there'll be information in the future that proves you wrong!" isn't exactly a very compelling argument when there's information in the present that proves me right.
>>114340>99% of the population will absolutely refuse to date your kind. For ~no reason at all~. Are you going to start demanding them to receive your advances?
I'm not trans, but no, people can refuse to date anyone for whatever reason they like. You're not obliged to be with anyone.
>A successful treatment for gender dysphoria would make the patients identify as their birth sex. Sounds like SRS doesn't treat gender dysphoria.
A successful treatment would be anything that alleviates dysphoria, which SRS does. You didn't read the thread though, clearly, so here's a link to proof >>113833
I'd also like to raise the similarity between what you're saying and the idea that homosexuality in itself was a mental illness that could be treated by "making them heterosexual again", that ignored the huge social stigma on those people that led to a significant part of their distress (Which is a factor here, and is discussed in the linked post).
>Let's see, the biggest reason I hate trannies is because they actively promote gender roles and reduce the female identity to external trappings.
Sounds to me like you're talking about Tumblr sorts that are only trans because it's trendy honestly.
Sure, trans people tend to want to exert an image of themselves as the opposite gender, but I don't really see how that reduces femininity to a purely external thing.
>Let me give your malfunctioning pea brain a more obvious example:
That example fails as bats differ significantly in what their "wings" actually are to a bird. They don't flap their entire forelimb.>>114343>Psychology is a relatively new field.
So is oncology, do you think we should stop using chemotherapy?
>Even the information out there is not that reliable as studies are published without being replicated.
You really don't know anything about psychiatry, do you?
>Asperger's has recently been taken out of the DSM 5.
It wasn't "taken out", it was merged into a larger more inclusive disorder for autism spectrum disorders. Please stop talking about things you don't understand.>>114344
This is a pretty poor source, he spends the whole time talking about how Dr McHugh fell into the same trap as other people in the field have (Which is addressed in the link with studies and interview earlier in my post), and then talks about how it shouldn't be done on children (which I agree with).
His reasoning based on that article seems pretty fucking slim, and seems to completely ignore that it's a huge violation of your responsibility to care for your patients to refuse a treatment that has been proven to alleviate their dysphoria simply because you don't want to do it. Maybe not illegal, but is fucking terrible form for a medical professional.
It's also ignoring the fact that one hospital doing something doesn't actually mean it's a smart thing to do. Hospitals make all sorts of stupid decisions that aren't in their patients best interests.
To add to my final point, I find the comparison to eating disorders ridiculous.
You can't just lump all disorders linked to the way someone views their body all into one, because they're fundamentally different. Otherwise you could say that someone with a manic episode who thinks they're the most attractive person ever despite clearly not being is veering dangerously close to transexuality.
You seem to be veering pretty close to an appeal to authority fallacy with this too. Him being a doctor doesn't mean he can't be flat out fucking wrong about something, which he does seem to be.
And you know it wasn't actually John Hopkins, right? Like, did you even read your link?
John Hopkins wasn't even a doctor.
It was the current psychiatrist in chief for the hospital, Dr Paul McHugh>>114350
It wasn't. It was merged into another disorder, not taken out.
Someone with aspergers would still be eligible for a diagnosis, it's just a different name.>>114351
Once again, not trans, I don't see why you're so stuck on that.
And what about all the other studies by doctors that I linked?
Or the person in charge of the study that is referred to in the link you gave has said that interpretation is wrong?
>>114345>A successful treatment would be anything that alleviates dysphoria, which SRS does. You didn't read the thread though, clearly, so here's a link to proof >>113833
I'm sick of people like you who post a handful of cherrypicked studies and pretend they're some ultimate objective conclusion. As the anon said anything from the field of psychology is hardly set in stone, not to mention how much of a mess academia is in general these days. If you can, link to some metastudies.
>A successful treatment would be anything that alleviates dysphoria, which SRS does.
So fucking what. I used to have crossbites. Basic shit like ingestion was uncomfortable. Still, the orthodontistry treatment was considered cosmetic and not medical because it wasn't treating a fucking sickness.
>Sounds to me like you're talking about Tumblr sorts that are only trans because it's trendy honestly.
>Sure, trans people tend to want to exert an image of themselves as the opposite gender, but I don't really see how that reduces femininity to a purely external thing.
I'm not letting you get away from the original argument: am I the far right according to your BS logic, or are you?
>That example fails as bats differ significantly in what their "wings" actually are to a bird. They don't flap their entire forelimb.
LOL are you even trying
>>114353>I'm sick of people like you who post a handful of cherrypicked studies and pretend they're some ultimate objective conclusion.
It's not a handful of cherrypicked studies, it's a decent amount of data supporting my claim, as opposed to you, who has provided none, and just gone "I'm right and your data doesn't count because I don't like psychology as a field".
If you know nothing about the field, don't talk about it.
>So fucking what. I used to have crossbites. Basic shit like ingestion was uncomfortable. Still, the orthodontistry treatment was considered cosmetic and not medical because it wasn't treating a fucking sickness.
Okay? I don't really see how that's relevant to what I'm saying. Yes, cosmetic surgery exists. Very good point.
>I'm not letting you get away from the original argument: am I the far right according to your BS logic, or are you?
What logic is that? That I assumed you were far right because people in this thread against transgenderism (which is pretty fucking dumb in the first place, you can't be against an illness) had only raised falsehoods or simply gone on about how they hated trannies for some reason or another.
You then created a strawman and said "Well how come you believe this then, huh? Guess I win again" as your argument.
>LOL are you even trying
Are you? Your analogy was shit, I'm not going to waste my time seriously addressing shitty analogies that ignore the basis of what I'm saying.>>114354
And you know that they didn't perform the first SRS, right? The first one was like 35 years before they did it, they were just the first in the US.
First I know of was as Dresden Municipal Womens Clinic.
And either way, your entire point is an appeal to authority fallacy. And even if we assume that it's right because he's a doctor, you're ignoring that I've linked plenty of doctors who agree with my point of view now.
>>114356>It's not a handful of cherrypicked studies
That's not what it looks like.
>as opposed to you, who has provided none
Should I copy-paste >>114344
for you? Will it count then? Fuckhead.
>Okay? I don't really see how that's relevant to what I'm saying.
Cunt, you're just playing dumb to avoid addressing the point now.
>crossbites make me uncomfortable>trannies' bodies makes them "uncomfortable"
>I get an orthodontist to fix my crossbites>trannies get surgeon to "fix" their genitals
>I'm comfortable after treatment>trannies are comfortable after treatment
Yet, neither process can be considered medical.
>What logic is that? That I assumed you were far right because people in this thread against transgenderism (which is pretty fucking dumb in the first place, you can't be against an illness) had only raised falsehoods or simply gone on about how they hated trannies for some reason or another.>or simply gone on about how they hated trannies for some reason or another.
I DID just do that. And the dislike of transgenderism may as well be a sentiment the far shares with me right for all I care. My point was and has always been that my sentiments toward trannies and transgenderism alone was enough for you to label me as a far right, even if it could be the ONLY thing I have in common with the far right. Why?
>You then created a strawman and said "Well how come you believe this then, huh? Guess I win again" as your argument.
It's not a strawman unless you can explain to me how exactly with your logic you wouldn't reach the same conclusion.
>Are you? Your analogy was shit
Your reason on why it's shit is so retarded you must be trolling. Let me try again:>ducks have wings>owls have wings>therefore a duck is an owl
Happy? We can get as specific as you want until you are.
>I'm not going to waste my time seriously addressing shitty analogies that ignore the basis of what I'm saying.
lol okay. What is the basis of what you're saying then, and how did I ignore it?
>>114358>That's not what it looks like.
Well, I don't really care what you think it looks like. You've provided one doctors opinion (Which also misinterpreted one of the sources I linked), whereas I've provided several published studies, as well as an interview with the doctor who was in charge of the most commonly cited study.
>Yet, neither process can be considered medical.
Well yeah, having a broken leg makes me "uncomfortable" too, it doesn't mean having it set is cosmetic surgery.
Cosmetic surgery is literally just that. Surgery to make you look better, as opposed to plastic surgery, which is focused on repairing defects.
So what you're bitching about isn't even cosmetic surgery.
Here's a source>http://www.americanboardcosmeticsurgery.org/patient-resources/cosmetic-surgery-vs-plastic-surgery/
I'm really not sure what you're trying to complain about here. Are you trying to say that one is elective and one isn't? Because they both are. Are you complaining about insurance? What are you even saying?
>My point was and has always been that my sentiments toward trannies and transgenderism alone was enough for you to label me as a far right, even if it could be the ONLY thing I have in common with the far right. Why?
Because you raise the exact same points as every /pol/ retard who thinks he knows better than everyone else simply because he does ends up raising, and then (assuming you're the same person), assumed that everyone who attempts to support trans people is some Tumblr sort. Not to mention you constantly calling me trans. Don't bitch about people stereotyping you while you do the same shit.
>It's not a strawman unless you can explain to me how exactly with your logic you wouldn't reach the same conclusion.
It's a strawman because the entire image of trans people is false. It's you creating an argument and then attacking it instead of actually addressing my point. It's also a poor form of redirection away from what I was saying.
>Your reason on why it's shit is so retarded you must be trolling.
Really, with analogies like this, you shouldn't be calling anyone retarded.
It would be more accurate to go >Here is a wing that is most commonly found within this family of birds>However, it is also seen in some other species, though much less commonly>Therefore, it stands to reason that this wing does in fact belong to one of the original family of birds, though you can't say for certain what species it is
That is more accurate because I could only see one aspect of your political views, that is most commonly found among /pol/ style far right sorts, and simply agreed that you were probably one of those, though I didn't specify your particular political ideology.
>What is the basis of what you're saying then, and how did I ignore it?
Though I really don't see the point of arguing about fucking birds. If you're not far right, simply say you aren't, the same as I simply said I wasn't trans despite your continued accusations of that.
Not that person, but a shitload of anti-trans posts were made literally minutes apart over the course of the past two days. So either every single farmer has taken a special interest in this thread for some reason and bucked the actual speed of the entire site (this thread would be moving quicker than the actual cow/snowflake threads and pretty much every other thread on /b/) while coincidentally having the exact same opinion, or one supreme autist is/was pretending to be different people rather poorly.
You're literally so impulsive and bad at samefagging that you didn't have the courtesy to wait things out before each post so things would be less obvious. It's pretty pathetic.
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>>114368>>114370>thinks this is the first time lolcow has voiced their hate of trannies
my dear newfag please refer to >>21633
I'm sorry the site consensus isn't the one you wanted. I doubt I can persuade you off of your pet theory by myself so if any farmhands don't mind quoting or highlighting all the posts I made ITT feel free to do so
I love how you complain about people calling you out on samefagging, and then referring to all people who've supported trans people in some form as one person.
By the way, I'm the person who's been arguing for them most recently, and I'm not the one who's called you a samefag, never have.
>>114376>that tranny advocate
More than one person has called you out on samefagging.
Nice backpedalling though.
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You drew the conclusion that I was assuming EVERYONE ITT who advocates transgenderism is the same poster simply because I said "that tranny advocate" while referring to the two posts that accused me on samefagging, and then accuse me of backpedaling
simply because I called you retarded for arriving at such a ridiculous conclusion?
Fucking kill yourself, you insufferable bitch.
>>114379>You drew the conclusion that I was assuming EVERYONE ITT who advocates transgenderism is the same poster simply because I said "that tranny advocate"
Yes, because that wasn't all one person. You're getting upset at multiple people calling you samefag, while calling them samefag.
And once again, it's very funny how you get so upset at people calling you things with no real basis while you insulted me calling me some variation of transgender despite me pointing out that I'm not in almost every post I know for sure you've made.
>Fucking kill yourself, you insufferable bitch.
Why don't you fuck off back to /pol/ with your retarded opinions and inability to argue honestly, instead of just throwing a tantrum when people call you out on it.
>>114370 >samefag samefag samefagggg!!!1
Oi, Paranoidanon lolcow/staminarose has always been pretty anti-trans. How have you never seen this before? Most of us agree, men pretending to dress up as women and then cut their dicks off are mentally unstable and fucked.
Anyway, so, let's talk about agenda pushing to reclassify GID on the DSM to a non-mental issue. Because as a 'mental disorder' (which we KNOW it is) it makes poor trans fee-fees less legit. I think that's crazy. If they do that, then they'll have to classify eating disorders are a non-mental issue then, I suppose. Since body dysphoria is clearly not a mental illness. It's like, clearly you have some issues if you need to contemplate SRS to even 'function' normally.
I've been arguing pro-trans in this thread, and I agree it's ridiculous. GID isn't saying that transexualism is a mental illness, it's saying that the dysphoria is, and needs to be treated. Most people with it aren't fully trans, they don't want to transition, that's just the most extreme form of it (same as most people with anorexia aren't walking skeletons, just thin).
Taking it out of the DSM would be ignoring all the people with it who do want treatment, and to who therapy is effective.
I honestly think that politics should just stay out of medicine completely. It's just completely irrelevant, if something fits the criteria of a mental illness, it should be listed as one (assuming it's not just a subtype of an existing one), regardless of if some retards on the internet get all triggered
I think it's most Tumblr sorts that are only trans because it's trendy who talk like that, to mostly everyone who actually suffers, transitioning is absolutely a last resort thing, because it's a huge decision to make, and people end up riddled with doubt before they do it. A lot who end up signing up for it end up not going through with it as a result of this.
>>114371>so if any farmhands don't mind quoting or highlighting all the posts I made ITT feel free to do so.
You're literally so new you don't even realize farmhands don't do that shit anymore. It's in one of the fucking banners.
Continue the damage control kek. It's not even about trans people now, it's about your sheer autism.
Alright, continue replying to the same post multiple times and telling yourself you're different people (I'm >>114394
God you must be utterly retarded.
>no one can have a different opinion to my own!111 Literally must be the same person again and again
Please fuck off.
Replying to myself? Seriously? I've posted twice in this thread. Here: >>114400
and here: >>114391
Who is the samefag here? Take off the tinfoil.
No-one's addressing it because it's essentially an opinion piece. They talk about the female brain theory being weak, and then go "Wait, so transexual people find themselves more comfortable in a sexual position as the opposite gender? That must mean they're all fetishists", which completely fucking ignores that a woman also would feel more comfortable while dressed in womens clothes and being sexual.
It's entirely based off the idea of correlation equalling causation, which is completely false and against the scientific method.
And either way, you seem to be acting like either theory somehow disagrees with SRS, which is false. Here's a quote>Perhaps most importantly, both proponents of the feminine essence narrative and of Blanchard’s
theory support the treatment of transsexuals by sex reassignment surgery.
Both theories are lacking in some ways, but neither support the anti-trans rights movement.
SRS still leads to transexuals being suicidal at very high rates: The best transsexual study (Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden) to date found that their rates of suicide after SRS are still like 19 times higher than non trans sexual people.
Before you cry "but the non SRS suicide rate is higher!" prove it. There is no good statistics. the 41% statistic that everyone likes to tout is simply untrue. Even the National Transgender Discrimination Survey says:>in the absence of supporting data, we should be especially careful not to extrapolate findings about suicide attempts among transgender adults to imply conclusions about completed suicide in this population.
Anything that says "we believe" is an opinion piece. >>114458>SRS still leads to transexuals being suicidal at very high rates: The best transsexual study (Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden) to date found that their rates of suicide after SRS are still like 19 times higher than non trans sexual people.
Read the thread. Or because you clearly have no intention of looking to see what I've already addressed, see here >>113833
The interview in the first few quotes is with the person in charge of the study you're referring to, who says that it should not be used that way, and that it is a blatant misinterpretation of data.
SRS in every way improves their situation. It reduces their suicide rate drastically, though it still sits at a higher rate than normal, as it does with many other conditions for many reasons. As the interview says.
So essentially, your argument is that you have no real data on suicide rates on non-op transsexuals and the post-op transsexual suicide rate cannot be applied as SRS efficacy.
But somehow… SRS is good? Do you even hear yourself? You make zero sense.
I have data that outright says that it improves their situation long term, and does reduce their suicide rates. Seriously, it's right there in the post. Read my sources, at least the first one, don't just skim read my post and go "haha I win".
SRS has been shown over and over to improve the global functioning of trans people. You can't just ignore the data anon.
Read the interview, don't just make up your own reasons.
To clarify, the article points out you see the same thing in people who've been successfully treated for schizophrenia, that they don't go back down to normal suicide rates. Same for Bipolar and other conditions.
Yet you'd have to be a moron to blame anti-psychotics or mood stabilisers for this.
Wow what great reasoning that is.>>114465
I've already provided you sources, you really ought to read them.
And just to clarify, you don't need exact rates of suicide to measure if something works. That's not how you measure efficiency of psychiatric medication. You are referring to a study in which the head doctor outright said that your interpretation of the data is incorrect and fallacious.
These mental gymnastics are getting pretty bad friend.
But, here you go>http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf>Suicide attempts among trans men
(46%) and trans women (42%)
Now, this is obviously talking about suicide attempts, but it would be dumb to talk about successful suicides, because that's simply impacted by way too many environmental factors.
There's several studies talking about suicide rates in post op individuals linked there.
But really, I want to highlight how irrelevant that is to the efficiency of SRS. The treatment improves their functioning overall, and greatly alleviates gender dysphoria. I have linked plenty of studies supporting this.
We don't not give schizophrenics anti-psychotics because it doesn't entirely take the suicide rate back to normal. We don't not give people with Bipolar mood stabilisers for the same reason, because in both of those cases, the post-treatment suicide rate tends to be caused by other things, coming to terms with where their live is in the aftermath of their illness, coping with social stigma, loads of environmental factors.
It's the same in trans people here.
Anon, your sources are so cherry picked, and also, bad.
Source 1: It is so obvious you are only copy and pasting from the abstract. How can you throw out a study you haven't even read? I actually have access to the full thing. The sample size is 57 people. You want to base the efficacy of an extremely invasive and expensive intervention on 57 people? Additionally, they used some pretty shady methods such as nonrandom selection, screams selection bias. So, they picked the people they wanted to be in the study. Interesting. They could have chosen only those they believed would have favorable results.
Source 2: Again, you clearly didn't even read the study. You simply copied and pasted out of the abstract. You want to present yourself as some kind of scientific authority? you'd know better than to base your opinions on abstracts. It's awfully high-school of you. I also have full access to this study, and guess what, the sample size here is even smaller at a grand total of 42! Small sample size lead to studies with low statistical power which can overestimate
Source 3: Now this one is the funny one. Of course you only cherry picked from the abstract, but here is a fun little nugget you exluded from your ~very helpful~ summary:>Very low quality evidence suggests that sex reassignment that includes hormonal interventions in individuals with GID likely improves gender dysphoria, psychological functioning and comorbidities, sexual function and overall quality of life.
they even admit the studies they look at are very low quality
. Ever hear of
So you deliberately misrepresented the strength of the results of the study by omitting this fun little line. How interesting, you aren't biased at all, are you?
Here's some more from the full
article:>The evidence in this review is of very low quality due to the serious methodological limitations of included studies.>Studies lacked bias protection measures such as randomization and control groups, and generally depended on self-report to ascertain the exposure (i.e. hormonal therapy was self-reported as opposed to being extracted from medical records). >Our reliance on reported outcome measures may also indicate a higher risk of reporting bias within the studies.
I can look at the rest of your cherry picked articles if you wish but let's be honest, you didn't read any of those studies either did you?
*Ever hear of fivethirtyeight.com/ ?
It is a website that shows just how ridiculous p-hacking can be on small sample sizes.
Forgot to finish my sentence there. Lol. >>114467>>114468
on why your studies are terrible and clearly just picked to support your argument.
Apologies, confused myself and had to delete a post.
Refer to table 2 in the swedish study for discussion of suicide attempts. It's drastically lower than the data given in the Williams institute shows it is for pre-op people.
Though I do realise that there isn't the best data provided, there's enough when combined with our knowledge of how SRS impacts their global functioning.>>114469>It is so obvious you are only copy and pasting from the abstract.
No shit, I'm not going to copy the whole study.
>I actually have access to the full thing.
Can you please prove this?
>I also have full access to this study
Same as above. Otherwise I can just claim that I do too and it has a sample size of 12 million.
And you realise that psychiatric studies are almost always small scale, right? You don't need thousands of people.
>they even admit the studies they look at are very low quality.
Do you know what that means anon? It doesn't mean the data isn't there, or shouldn't be relied on, it means that we need more research to be done, but that from what we do have, it shows that it absolutely is an effective treatment.
>How interesting, you aren't biased at all, are you?
As opposed to you, who's simply just decided to dismiss all the data provided because it's not good enough for you.
The fact is, the data we do have shows that it is effective. Even the much quoted swedish study shows that it's effective.
You can't just come in and go "Yeah well these aren't the best studies, so what I believe is right, despite me providing absolutely no studies".>>114470>See >>114469 on why your studies are terrible and clearly just picked to support your argument.
I'll repeat myself. I've never claimed that they were perfect studies. But I'm actually the only person who's provided any studies so far supporting my claims, instead of just asserting that they're true.
The data we do have supports my claims, and is evidently high enough quality that both the APA and AMA agree that SRS and hormone therapy are efficient treatments for this disorder.
You sperging out about how I only posted the summaries from the studies doesn't actually disprove this. The abstract gives an overview of what's contained within, and as such is appropriate for when I'm trying to do just that.
Keep trying though, maybe if you dismiss some more studies it'll cause some to magically appear and support you, and change the two most relevant medical bodies in the US's opinion of the treatment.
To clarify what I'm saying here, I'm not arguing that the data I have is the best it could possibly be. At all.
I'm simply using the data that I do have to support the evidence provided in the swedish study (which is much larger scale), that says that SRS is effective, but that we do need to keep people who've had it in therapy after, because it doesn't automatically cure all their problems.
If you have some super high quality data that blows all of this out of the water though, I'm always open to learning, so please post it.
The trans community doesn't even use the asterisk anymore
>>114471>No shit, I'm not going to copy the whole study.
To clarify: you are using data from studies you haven't even read as "fact". I just want you to think about that and how flawed that is.http://www.skepticalob.com/2013/01/why-reading-the-abstract-of-a-scientific-paper-isnt-enough.html
Maybe go read that.
>Can you please prove this?
Prove that I have access to the paper? Yes, I can. I can get it through my university's ILL. I'm in graduate school, I can get access to a lot of different papers. It isn't hard if you are in academia. I looked through the paper and that is how I was able to tell you that you picked, from source 1, in a nonrandom manner.
>Same as above. Otherwise I can just claim that I do too and it has a sample size of 12 million.>And you realise that psychiatric studies are almost always small scale, right? You don't need thousands of people.
Lol, okay, so the person who only reads abstracts and regurgitates what other sites say is trying to say I'm the one making shit up. Nah. I looked at the papers that you keep trying to shove down people's throats. They are laughably bad designs. Honestly. Small sample sizes. bad. No bias protection. BAD.
>Do you know what that means anon? It doesn't mean the data isn't there, or shouldn't be relied on, it means that we need more research to be done, but that from what we do have, it shows that it absolutely is an effective treatment.
No, you are clearly the one who doesn't know what it means. Low quality studies severely limit
the validity of the conclusions that can be drawn from them.
You have claimed several times in this threads that SRS is awesome. By listening to really bad studies. You don't see how ridiculous that is? You haven't been saying "SRS may or may not be good, based on the very limited evidence of very limited studies on very limited populations with not-so-great designs" nah you just go for "SRS cures it all!" Very dishonest and disingenuous, and frankly, bullshit.
>The fact is, the data we do have shows that it is effective. Even the much quoted swedish study shows that it's effective.
The data isn't good. I can find data that vaccines cause autism. Very, very bad data. Do you understand?
>You can't just come in and go "Yeah well these aren't the best studies, so what I believe is right, despite me providing absolutely no studies".
I simply deconstructed some of the articles you were flouting as complete fact. You linked bad studies. All I did was come by and told you why they were terrible studies.
>I'll repeat myself. I've never claimed that they were perfect studies. But I'm actually the only person who's provided any studies so far supporting my claims, instead of just asserting that they're true.
And again, your studies can't prove anything, because they are poorly designed. And again, I can find shitty studies that say cigarettes don't cause cancer, does that mean they're true?
>You sperging out about how I only posted the summaries from the studies doesn't actually disprove this. The abstract gives an overview of what's contained within, and as such is appropriate for when I'm trying to do just that.
Here, i'll do you a favor:http://www.skepticalob.com/2013/01/why-reading-the-abstract-of-a-scientific-paper-isnt-enough.html
You reading the abstracts lead you to very wrong conclusions. If you had looked earnestly at the full papers, you would have seen the glaring design flaws as well, but let's be honest, you don't want
to see them, so you copy and paste from abstracts with no context. Again, you can't try and act like some scientific authority when you do something so sketchy.
>Keep trying though, maybe if you dismiss some more studies it'll cause some to magically appear and support you, and change the two most relevant medical bodies in the US's opinion of the treatment.
You are reaching hard now. I never made any claims, except that the studies YOU have provided are very bad. You sound incredibly defensive. >>114473>To clarify what I'm saying here, I'm not arguing that the data I have is the best it could possibly be. At all.
Except, you have argued that, by pushing all of those shitty studies on people and pretending, by neglecting to read the full things and disclose their flaws. I only jumped on you because you are being incredibly misleading and dishonest. If you had argued that SRS is potentially viable base don some small, low quality studies, I wouldn't have cared. but you reached so hard I'm surprised your arms haven't fallen off.
And I'll clarify myself as well for you. I have not taken a stance that SRS does not work or SRS does work. You have. Based on flawed studies, that you kept pushing on people as 100% fact. You are using flawed data to make very broad and dishonest generalizations.
Sorry if I came off aggressive. I enjoy discussing things, and honestly, would rather have a civil conversation than a fight.
As for me, whether SRS works or not is not even the most interesting part of the whole transsexual narrative, to me it efforts to make sure trasnsexual individuals feel "validated" through such things as bathroom laws and etc. I personally am against MTF being able to go to women only colleges.
>>114475>To clarify: you are using data from studies you haven't even read as "fact". I just want you to think about that and how flawed that is.
Once again, I'm not writing a scientific paper here, I'm simply highlighting the amount of evidence there is for what I'm saying.
>Prove that I have access to the paper? Yes, I can
Please do so then.
>No, you are clearly the one who doesn't know what it means. Low quality studies severely limit the validity of the conclusions that can be drawn from them.
Anon, I'm really not sure what you're not getting here. Not only have you miquoted the study to say "low quality studies" instead of evidence, which is drastically different, but you're also going "well, because your data isn't good enough to make a 100% conclusive statement off, despite even the single analysis I'm focusing on saying that it does support what you're saying, it means I'm right".
>nah you just go for "SRS cures it all!" Very dishonest and disingenuous, and frankly, bullshit.
It's bullshit because I never said that. I said SRS seems to alleviate gender dysphoria and improve global functioning in people with severe cases of GID. Which from the evidence that's out there, seems to be true. That data is clearly high enough quality for the APA and AMA to agree with me on that.
>The data isn't good. I can find data that vaccines cause autism. Very, very bad data. Do you understand?
Kek, please find me some published studies that show that vaccines cause autism.
>I simply deconstructed some of the articles you were flouting as complete fact. You linked bad studies. All I did was come by and told you why they were terrible studies.
No, you dismissed them completely. Not pointing out that they had flaws, you focused on those flaws and then completely dismissed them, and then ignored a good half of the provided studies, including the largest scale one that still supported what I said.
>And again, your studies can't prove anything, because they are poorly designed.
But anon, even the meta-analysis you're focusing on agrees that they do support it. And that also isn't discussing the largest of my linked studies, being the swedish study.
>You reading the abstracts lead you to very wrong conclusions. If you had looked earnestly at the full papers, you would have seen the glaring design flaws as well, but let's be honest, you don't want to see them, so you copy and paste from abstracts with no contex
These "glaring design flaws" being things that are almost impossible to bypass, and aren't at all considered to be glaring design flaws in psychiatric studies, as they almost always are small scale?
>You are reaching hard now. I never made any claims, except that the studies YOU have provided are very bad. You sound incredibly defensive.
No shit I'm defensive, you came in on the offensive and I defended. That's how this works.
Seriously. Even if we assume that those studies are all terrible, doesn't the fact that they all come to the same conclusion as each other and much larger scale studies support the idea that they might still be arriving at an accurate conclusion?
And don't play the "I'm just an unbiased third party" shit when you've exclusively attacked the pro-trans side of things, and not even mentioned the incredibly fallacious argument of the opposition here, or how they've provided no data whatsoever supporting their claims. All I've been saying is that I believe what I'm saying because I've seen a good amount of evidence for it, and in the absence of any against this, it seems ridiculous to go "Must be wrong still, those studies aren't perfect". Not that I'm objectively correct, simply that going off the information we have now, my claim has way more support.>>114476
That's fair enough, though I'm sure you can understand why I'm cautious to believe that you're completely unbiased here.
As I said, I'm the only person who's provided ANY data supporting my claims. It's not like I'm just cherrypicking shit and ignoring the wealth of high quality info I'm being shown here, I'm just going off what I've seen, and what the relevant medical authorities also believe.
Because even if it is low quality data, it does all seem to support the claim that SRS is effective, and much higher quality ones do also support this.
I apologise for any aggression on my behalf too, including the earlier segments of this post.
>I personally am against MTF being able to go to women only colleges.
Eh, I kind of think that if you're legally considered a gender, you should be treated as that gender.
I'm against any organisation that restricts itself based on gender though, I find that to be completely ridiculous and entirely unnecessary.
I am going to drop the aggressive side too now, honestly, I don't like fighting, but I just wanted to caution against using those studies the way you were. Saying "SRS fixes dysphoria" and "SRS appears, with limited evidence, to alleviate dysphoria" are very different statements, and one of my big issues about the trans ideology lately is use of scientific studies really inappropriately to prove points as if they are conclusive, when they are still on very shaky grounds. Yeah, small sample sizes may be a common (and again, not good) part of these kinds of studies, but the lack of bias protection are very
concerning, and not excusable as small sample sizes may be.
I can get you all of those papers if you want to drop a fake e-mail.
I resent being assumed to be anti-trans, just because I am skeptical of the limited evidence concerning SRS. I do not agree with discrimination of trans individuals in jobs and housing and such, and being harassed/assaulted. To me that seems to be very basic, but I guess yeah, there really are some looney toons out there who are violently "anti" trans people.
However, I support the hard won sex based protections that feminists have fought for in countries the world over, and can see how current trans ideology can dismantle really important work done in that sector. I also am suspicious of the current narrative in the context of homophobia, and the "trans-ing" of potentially gay/lesbian children. That's my concerns and to me it is so much more complicated than quick snippy comments can explain.
>>114479>I am going to drop the aggressive side too now, honestly, I don't like fighting, but I just wanted to caution against using those studies the way you were.
Nah, all good, I simply assumed you were because you only mentioned my side.
And I can see what you're saying, and obviously this isn't objective. When I say "it fixes dysphoria", I absolutely do just mean that from what evidence we have, it does seem to.
>one of my big issues about the trans ideology lately is use of scientific studies really inappropriately to prove points as if they are conclusive, when they are still on very shaky grounds.
I agree, more research needs to be done. But I'd argue that the opposition is far more guilty of this than the people who are pro trans rights. You can see that in this thread, even in just my discussions with people.
>I can get you all of those papers if you want to drop a fake e-mail.
Sure, here's an old one
>I resent being assumed to be anti-trans, just because I am skeptical of the limited evidence concerning SRS
And that's fair enough, though I find that in any discussion of these topics, it's always just easiest to state your beliefs before you start talking about stuff, unless it's super obvious.
>However, I support the hard won sex based protections that feminists have fought for in countries the world over, and can see how current trans ideology can dismantle really important work done in that sector.
I think that the whole trans rights movement has been co-opted by those insane Tumblr sorts that are just in on it because it's trendy, and want to be seen as more progressive than the next.
My support for trans people goes as far as "If they're legally speaking listed as a gender, treat them as that gender", because that seems like the basis of what being transexual is to me, that you want to be that other gender. Apart from that, from what I've seen, for severe cases that do want to transition, SRS does seem to alleviate their dysphoria and improve global functioning, and I think it's dumb to try to say it shouldn't be allowed simply because there might be a better alternative in the future. In fact, as far as I see it, that goes completely against the responsibility to care for and give a patient access to effective treatment for their illnesses that any medical entity (from hospitals to doctors) has.
And yeah, I agree with children completely. Most trans kids do seem to grow out of it, and I don't think most people even entirely understand gender until they're almost adults anyway.
Sent the e-mail, hope it worked.
>I agree, more research needs to be done. But I'd argue that the opposition is far more guilty of this than the people who are pro trans rights. You can see that in this thread, even in just my discussions with people.
Personally, I'd say the "pro" trans are more guilty of scientific dishonesty with over generalizing studies, and the "anti" trans are more guilty of pure 'feelings' as in "ew gross tranny" if that makes sense.
I wish there were more room for gender critical and "pro" trans to talk and discuss.
>I think that the whole trans rights movement has been co-opted by those insane Tumblr sorts that are just in on it because it's trendy, and want to be seen as more progressive than the next.
I think it is ironic that the tumblr trans right movement that is seen as most progressive is honestly the most regressive form. It is so contingent on rigid gender roles and such that I can't believe it at times. I always thought the progressive stance was being against gender haha which is what I am.
As for treatments, it gets really sticky when you consider whether SRS should be a right (should trans prisoners get SRS? housed with opposite sexed inmates?) and again, considering the dangers involved, and with detransition being a thing, whether gate keeping is strong enough (I definitely don't think there is enough gate keeping).
It's all so messy, and to me that is the most important part to discuss I guess.
>>114481>Sent the e-mail, hope it worked.
Yep, got it then, I'll go through them properly in a bit.
>Personally, I'd say the "pro" trans are more guilty of scientific dishonesty with over generalizing studies, and the "anti" trans are more guilty of pure 'feelings' as in "ew gross tranny" if that makes sense.
That definitely does, and generally I'd agree with that, except the Swedish study is really misquouted by people like that a lot. The original source I gave focused on dispelling the misinterpretations of that study in fact.
>I think it is ironic that the tumblr trans right movement that is seen as most progressive is honestly the most regressive form. It is so contingent on rigid gender roles and such that I can't believe it at times.
I mean, I think it's a hard balance. Obviously gender stereotypes exist, and they do create an image of masculinity or femininity. So for a trans person, who feels like they're the wrong gender, it makes sense that they'd want to portray themselves as as masculine or feminine as they could, which tends to come out through stereotypes. I don't think that's a harmful thing necessarily, or that they're encouraging that (there's really not that many trans people around to even be able to make a big difference on our views of gender stereotypes day to day as far as I see it), but it's simply the easiest way they can try to show themselves as the "correct" gender.
>As for treatments, it gets really sticky when you consider whether SRS should be a right (should trans prisoners get SRS? housed with opposite sexed inmates?)
Yeah, it gets complex there, but once again, I think it should be a legal thing. If you're a transitioned trans prisoner, you should go in with whatever gender you've transitioned to. And as to if they should get SRS in prison, I think it should be case by case. If they're so bad that they're being kept in a psychiatric unit in the prison? Then yeah, maybe it should be considered, so they can be more effectively rehabilitated.
>I definitely don't think there is enough gate keeping
Once again, I'd agree. I think that there's way too much politics being injected into the whole issue, and doctors are scared of being seen a certain way.
Though I don't think it's exactly easy to get SRS at all, it does take a long time to get to the point where you're actually going through with the procedure, I think we do need to be a bit stricter with who can overall. For example, children should just not be allowed to, full stop. Maybe at age 16 and up they can make that decision, because they can make their own medical decisions overall then (in my country at least), but not before then.
It's an issue that because it is so divisive, kind of forces people to be very over the top with how they view it I think. Like, if someone is going "This is the worst thing ever", going "Well there's some data that says it's not" isn't exactly compelling to anyone seeing it, whereas going "Data says it's not" is more so. The divisiveness furthers more divisiveness, and it's a result of people on both sides putting their emotions first.
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tbqh fam I don't believe transphobia is really its own "thing" no average person looks at a man in a dress and think "transgender" they just think "gay man" "fairy" "effeminate" "fag" "queer" etc etc etc, so basically, it's homophobia. People don't like seeing effeminate men or masculine women, and the thought of transgender doesn't enter their head, they just assume GAY which to the average person gay = eww.
And anyways, I also don't buy into the belief that transphobia, as a derivative of homophobia, is even that bad as a ~social oppression~. The worst thing that 99% of transgender people can bitch about is "misgendering!" and "b-bathrooms!" The only trans people ACTUALLY facing any danger, and inflating the statistics, are black MTF hookers. Yeah, they really do face lots of danger. However….
Your typical white middle-class MTF is literally in no danger except of being called a fag and misgendered. That isn't violence, but apparently it is ~LITERALLY KILL THEM~. Hell, there has never even been a case of a MTF attacked in a male bathroom. So why do they want in women's bathrooms? But there has been MTF that have attacked women in women's bathrooms, see Patrick Hagan who punched a lady because she misgendered him which to him was a "hate crime".
To me it all circles back to wanting to be validated, which, you know what it isn't anyone else's job to validate whatever identity you have in your head. Hurt feelings isn't violence. Being told to use their birth sex bathrooms if they aren't absolutely passing isn't literally killing them.
tl;dr transphobia probably is just misguided homophobia and for the majority of transgender people in the west it only amounts to being misgendered at worst, and is that seriously worth the amount of coverage they get for such a small tiny infinitesimal part of society?
tbh I used to be a HUGE supporter of tranny rights. Last year I used to even say shit like "transwomen are biological women" lol but when I actually read more about trannies instead of blindly following leftist cult mindset it swung me so far to the other side of the pendulum and I'm not going back
One of the mainnn things that got to me was hearing little boys wanting transition because "i like dresses and play with dolls!" (literally read any news article about some transgender kid) like holy shit, how is that NOT gender stereotypical? why can't they still be a boy and like playing with dolls? also some of it just seems like homosexual conversion therapy to me tbh…I know one FTM who used to be a lesbian that transitioned this year, I feel like all the heterosexual in the world got to them and they would rather be with a woman as a "man" and not deal with homophobia all the time, I feel the same about feminine gay men transitioning.
And then I came to the conclusion that there are three types of trannies. The lesbians/gay ones that transition because of homophobia, then the straight ones who transition because of fetish, and then the old 40-50 year old males who transition cuz of autogynephilia.
Like holy shit, the group of trannies I hate the most are MTF lesbians. I see them on tumblr and twitter all the time, harassing lesbians into liking their dicks are yelling at them for being exclusively into vagina cuz that's transphobic…and yet you hardly see FTMS harassing cock obsessed gay men into having sex with their vagina. Like there's literally some post on tumblr with 100k+ notes about how lesbian means ur attracted to "women" and not vagina, and there are essays about how lesbians are "socially cultured"??? into thinking dicks "are male???" so they have to get rid of their prejudice and sleep with their tranny dicks??? YET WHERE ARE THE POSTS ABOUT THIS FOR GAY MEN…do you guys know what I mean lol it's almost like I dunno, MTF Lesbians are actually males trying to coerce women into having sex with them? IDK I just feel so bad for lesbians that are getting hurt the most cuz of these crazy ass trannies
the other type of EVENTS that are getting to me is that like…the mention of vulva, vagina gets you labelled as a terf? How do I say this…like I never cared abt period art before or whatever but I noticed a lot of trannies and their handmaidens telling women to stop making period feminist art cuz it triggers them or whatever. And I feel like what that basically results in females being taught to be ashamed about their bodily functions that are already considered shameful? Universities are even cancelling the vagina monologues because VAGINA. It's literally males telling us to stop talking about our bodies. I hate it. and I roll my eyes whenever trannies try to stop people from saying "pregnant women" or "women get periods/have uteruses"
also I get reallll mad when I see a tranny win a woman award or in some list like "women in tech" (ESPCIALLY the ones that "transitioned" late) it's frankly offensive that a male, who never got told young "as a woman u need to focus on ur family and not work", who never got told that as a woman their appearance is worth more than academics, who never got sexually harassed by dudebros in tech, who will never get their job threatened or fall behind because of pregnancy etc get acknowledged for being a "brave woman in STEM!" or some shit like no fck u, you don't deserve that title you never faced half the prejudice growing up that a real working woman would have
i realized the whole thing is absurd, a male cannot become a female and vice versa, u cannot change every cell in ur body that contains a Y chromosome to become an X chromosome. We'll never be in the same boat cuz trannies are not women, tranny ideology is anti-women and anti-feminist
this was all over the place, really long but I could even go on and on more about why I hate trannies now and I didn't even get to my annoyance of the NON BINARY faction of trannies
tl:dr; used to be a supporter of trannies, now am against them cuz they perpetuate gender stereotypes and shaming of female biology
Exactly. I feel the same way but I could never put it in those words because it's confusing. They perpetuate so many gender stereotypes like it's the 50's yet they want people to have progressive, open minds about transitioning into another gender.
But damn I do love some of the drama those crazies stir up. Here I'll show you some recent ones I found. What do you think of these threads anon? Which one in your opinion is worse? https://www.reddit.com/r/aa_cups/comments/54v04l/hi_im_new_here/https://www.reddit.com/r/LesbianActually/comments/56a81r/trans_girl_periods/
Even with tits, men are still just as mansplainy and aggressive as they were without.
I find it sad that the first reaction of an average woman to being rejected is 'what's wrong with me?' whereas with many men (and trannies) it seems to be 'what's wrong with them?'
lmfao I love the drama too tbh even though I feel bad for them. Have you ever read the l chat? it's a lesbian forum who are tried of trannies… http://s1.zetaboards.com/L_Anon/topic/5443643/377/http://s1.zetaboards.com/L_Anon/topic/5636182/48/
IMO the trans girl periods thing is worse. They are so delusional jfc. If you don't have a uterus you cannot get a period. They don't bleed, they're not shedding uterine lining. What's next, trannies can get pregnant too?
And overall…I feel like lesbians (or women in general) are an easier group than straight men for MTFS to pick on so they do. And for fucks sake, what is up with all the lesbian subedits having MTF mods? Even /r/actuallylesbians is like 2/3 tranny mods. Imagine if a gay man subreddit has 2/3 FTM mods? Madness.
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points to the opposite of what? there are passing trans? or that most mtf are not fifty years old?
because re point a, that is clearly a man's voice, body, and mannerisms in that video, and re point b, you really think that vlogging and tumblr is going to give you the widest representation of mtf trans? two things that are very obviously a young person's game, and one of which has developed a culture to churn out trannies, and "trannies", out of the literal children which frequent it?
it's pretty telling how you always hear about MTFs demanding access to women's services and wanting lesbians to suck their 'girldicks', but you never hear about FTMs begging gay men to fuck them, forcing their way into men's shelters or wanting a male reproductive specialist to examine their "man pussy"
MTFs are MRAs, plain and simple
You do understand YOU'RE the one who's calling the kettle black, right?>>114394>You're literally so new you don't even realize farmhands don't do that shit anymore. It's in one of the fucking banners.
No, I've seen that fucking banner but your endless samefag accusations – because you literally cannot fucking handle
the notion that more than one person share my sentiments – is making an attempt at that request irresistible. Since I can't prove which posts aren't mine that was my ONLY fucking option.
Anyways, there's a better place for you to suck all that tranny dick than lolcow and I think you know what that place is. Seeing you already ran out of things to say ITT other than "samefag samefag samefag!" and so on ad infinitum, now's a good time for you to fuck off back there.>>114477>>nah you just go for "SRS cures it all!" Very dishonest and disingenuous, and frankly, bullshit.
>It's bullshit because I never said that. I said SRS seems to alleviate gender dysphoria and improve global functioning in people with severe cases of GID. Which from the evidence that's out there, seems to be true.
LMAO all this hair-splitting. Judging from the word:substance ratio in this fuckhueg post you've clearly ran out of arguments.
You're so obsessed with this issue that not only have you been samefagging all this time, you came back days later to reignite things lol
Did a tranny shit in your cereal?
>>114651>You do understand YOU'RE the one who's calling the kettle black, right?
You do realise that "no u" isn't a good refutation, right?
And I wasn't even talking to you in the last post, fuck off retard.
Even the person who disagreed with my sources didn't try to argue that there wasn't evidence it seemed to help.
Seriously, why did you come back to samefag and try to start shit up again though? You do realise that when you're acting this autistic, it's not bait, it's just people telling you to fuck off and stop being a retard, right?
To add to that, you're acting like sexual orientation is a choice.
'Men don't treat me good enough, so now I like women'
Both of these posts have one thing in common, the person posting is triggered
immensely by problematic
>>115451>LALALA SAMEFAG SAMEFAG
kek keeping telling yourself whatever helps you sleep at night.>>115495
It's not a refutation. I'm clearing things up because you seemed to be confused.
Come on anon, who do you think you're fooling?
No-one's getting upset that you're here, you're not being some master baiter or some shit, you're just acting autistic and getting called autistic.
Can I vent a bit since this is the tranny thread?
I hold no opinion on transfolk outside of what is proven by science and at this stage little to nothing has proved nor disproved transsexualism so basically we have an issue of both sides shit flinging whether it's a thing or not until a real objective basis can be founded. We lack the technology and knowledge for this so argument can't yet be had.
I have full confidence that the problem will be solved by science it's not a political "far-right", or "leftist" issue I don't understand why people must affix politics to pragmatic issues.
Currently trannies are seen as mentally ill, and it's fair to think this in a laymans perspective hacking off limbs is a sympton of the mentally ill and I can't stand how "treatment" for trannies is essentially butchering themselves, pumping themselves full of dangerous and unstable proto-oncogen hormones at risk of developing tumors or other harmful mutagens and ideologically brainwashing themselves to become a sad imitation of what they believe they truly are. The whole system makes me sick but even then I can't lament for transfolk because of their latent vanity, narcissism, and provocative attention seeking behavior. The voice of the few transfolk that suffer are never heard and all that are seen by the public are disgusting fetishizing, oversexualized insults to women (MTF is much more common than FTM) I don't know shit about the issue but It would be fair to assume that this could be caused by the hypersexualized libido of men as opposed to the more balanced libido among mean numbers of women.
Another thing I can't stand is the conflation of gayness with trannies because gayness was once defined as a mental illness, this false equivocation pisses me off so much not only is it offensive to gay people it just gripes me that they equivocate a sexual orientation with a freak-show mental illness and identity crisis.
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holy shit dude it's been two days and you are still lurking this thread for yelling your samefag meme at random posters
>inb4 im also called a samefag by our dear samefagchan
you're just making yourself look silly anon
it's really obvious when you make no effort to change your posting style
take a deep breath and go outside
Anon, do you honestly believe that there's just one person calling samefag here? There's very obviously more than one.
Whether the last accusation was right or not, when someone's been clearly sperging out throughout the whole thread, pretending to be multiple people all posting the exact same opinion within a couple hours and then no posts of that kind for a while after, it's a pretty solid assumption to make.
I don't really agree that the last poster was the same person though, they said something completely different and seemed far more reasonable overall.
I think people ignore that SRS is a last line treatment for the most severe cases too. It's like how ECT is a very last resort treatment for other serious mental illnesses. A lot of other treatments are tried out first, you don't just walk in and get approval for it.
I was hoping for real discussion but all i got was a paranoid asshole.
Who cares if the other anon is samefagging the admins will take care of that just let them talk to themselves it's honestly the best way to deal with it.
Well, when you ignore people actually talking about your point, then yeah, you won't get real discussion.
Seriously though, it's silly how you're getting upset over people calling samefag all the while asserting it's only one person saying it.
>>113816>because surely a ~petite, delicate~ little trans woman's feelings are more important than a woman's?
They matter equally, which is to say, none.
Feelings don't matter when it comes to policy.
>>115913>Well, when you ignore people actually talking about your point
Who? no one has responded with any real discussions outside of the samefag shit of my comment, I wish this thread would drop the samefag shit and actually contribute to the discussion.
>Seriously though, it's silly how you're getting upset over people calling samefag all the while asserting it's only one person saying it.
I don't know if it is one person saying it I haven't been around this thread i'm more grifed at how this threads going off topic because of bitching and moaning over samefagging like you're now over having a discussion. Who cares if it is one person saying echoing to themselves, provide some counterargument or contribute something or get out.
>>115915>Who? no one has responded with any real discussions outside of the samefag shit of my comment, I wish this thread would drop the samefag shit and actually contribute to the discussion.
But they did >>115897
>Who cares if it is one person saying echoing to themselves, provide some counterargument or contribute something or get out.
Because the blatant samefag is disrupting discussion with shitposting and pretending to be multiple people in some weird attempt to bully people out of the thread.
They've ignored all the arguments or any data they've been shown, they just shitpost, insult, use fallacious arguments and samefag to try to stir shit and stop conversations.
>>115897>I think people ignore that SRS is a last line treatment for the most severe cases too. It's like how ECT is a very last resort treatment for other serious mental illnesses. A lot of other treatments are tried out first, you don't just walk in and get approval for it.
In my country;New Zealand a news story which made the headlines the other day was about a transwomen pre-op who was outraged that they were put on the waiting list for sex reassignment surgery, they looked manly as fuck with no attempt to hide deep bellowing voice, it is publicly funded but like most publicly funded medical problems there's a long waiting list for this shit. It urks me how it uses by time and resources of doctors in my country that are very limited especially in rural regions are yelled at for their "incompetence" when they are busy dealing with serious issues. Dimentia, parkinsons disease and autism are becoming widespread pandemics in my country and trannies are outraged they won't get their free dick removal surgery.
If SRS is just as extreme as ECT than why do transpeople get treated like heroes when undergoing surgery. Part of the issue is how it's represented in the media remember the Kaitlin Jenner shit, a transperson will never be happy until they reach the invisible standard of "woman", it's indirectly harmful to mental illness sufferers and people with physical debilitating injuries to be put below trannies for the severity of their conditions.
In my country;New Zealand a news story which made the headlines the other day was about a transwomen pre-op who was outraged that they were put on the waiting list for sex reassignment surgery
Yeah, I agree that it's silly people who throw tantrums about medical waiting lists, but people do it in general. They're suffering, it sucks to be told you have to wait to have that treated.
>It urks me how it uses by time and resources of doctors in my country that are very limited especially in rural regions are yelled at for their "incompetence" when they are busy dealing with serious issues.
I think you're being kind of dismissive there. This is a serious issue, just different to the ones you listed. It can absolutely be something debilitating though, the severe cases often have very low global functioning.
>If SRS is just as extreme as ECT than why do transpeople get treated like heroes when undergoing surgery.
I mean, I don't think how serious a disorder or treatment is should directly relate to how well it's treated in society.
SRS is just given more social attention because people feel like they can help in one way or another. People against it are sure that SRS shouldn't be a thing because to them it's disgusting and against their morals, and like to pretend they have a scientific basis for this, yet you look silly if you chuck a tantrum about anti-psychotics, despite them having similar effects in that they don't bring the morbidity back to normal levels straight after effective treatment.
>it's indirectly harmful to mental illness sufferers and people with physical debilitating injuries to be put below trannies for the severity of their conditions.
I think you're once again treating the amount of attention something gets as how serious a disorder is considered to be.
To use an example, breast cancer gets a lot of attention, and while it is obviously very serious, it gets a lot less attention than other disorders that are much harder to detect, much more debilitating and much more lethal, even just within oncological disorders. People don't necessarily think that breast cancer is the worst form of cancer you can get, it's just that the ad campaigns about it have been more lucky and more effective at raising awareness.
Depression gets even more attention than these issues, despite it being (almost always, it obviously can be very severe, though these cases are very rare) less severe than even other mood disorders, ignoring psychotic ones or any number of other conditions.
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lmao the delusional tranny is still itt calling everybody samefag
xoxo your fellow real woman Bri <3
Oh, I wouldn't put it past ol' Johnboy to do it. They love to google themselves and then cry about harassment. Literally who is the biggest of the 'LIFE IS SO HARD BEING A WOMAN IN TECH' tranny I swear to god.
Which reminds me of my friend who works in infosec/crypto which is stupidly infested by tranny male to females who constantly cry about how oppressed they are as women in a male dominated field. Hilarious, right?
One of her lead devs is a big, 6'4 really non-passing transwoman who has a bunch of 'women in tech' awards and gives talks about empowering women in STEM and a bunch of other BS stuff which, frankly, they have no business talking about considering they've spent about five years being a so called 'woman'. The other is a tranny on her team that is typical ugly blue hair tumblrite who constantly tries to bait my friend into 'men are so evil' conversations where he bitches nonstop about the evils of cis men. Nevermind that in reality, he is a dude and the only actual girl in the office is my friend.
I feel bad for her. She's literally in a niche sector of tech doing really cool work and she's honestly just the nicest, smartest girl surrounded by headcase trannies who love to steal the spotlight of being 'women in tech' all the fucking time.
How am I a hypocrite? I've never complained about anyone calling samefag, simply said that there's obviously at least two people saying it.
You're a hypocrite for whining about others calling samefag and then doing it yourself.
And I'm not calling everyone a samefag, simply saying that there's very clearly one person pretending to be multiple people all agreeing with them that appear and disappear at the same time. There's others who I have no reason to believe are that person.
I assume the person sperging out about literally everyone samefagging is trolling at this point.
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>libtard gets btfo
>tries to derail thread with samefag trolling
No-one got BTFO though you moron, some tard just kept asserting he was right despite having no real knowledge of anything and refusing to provide any citation, then jumped on the back of another poster who was simply saying that the person who did provide citation was drawing too strong a conclusion from it, but also agreed that it did seem to support what they said.
This is a terrible thread, between the person who clearly has been samefagging, and the person claiming everyone is a samefag, no real discussion can go on.
I wish robots could fuck off so mods found it a bit easier to focus on this stuff.
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Robots literally love traps and trannies you idiot
Not really. They're either the sort of people who fetishise them, or the sort of people who post almost exclusively on /r9k/ or /pol/, which can be an absolutely cancerous combo.
Kind of silly to call them a robot for posting it though, and I think that was probably just intended as bait.
Yeah, there hasn't really been any productive discussion here for over a week now, and even before then a heap was just shitposting.
Issues like this are honestly best left to doctors to decide as far as I see it.
It's just a bad thread overall. The premise was bad. The Brianna Wu-obsessed samefag made it into their home where they'll eternally screech and insist you must be trans if you're not anti-trans like themselves.
It should be dead. Hopefully it ends up in /manure/ soon enough.
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I think the thread is funny and should stay in /b/. I'm also sure it'd be even funnier if a farmhand marked who made which post, kek.
tbh I started samefagging a bit to mess with Autist-chan, so I'm part of the problem. Other people called them out as a result, though, so I don't feel as bad.
Wonder if anyone else did the same thing.
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>OMG MORE THAN ONE POST WAS MADE WITHIN 5 MINUTES LOLCOW CAN'T POSSIBLY BE THIS ACTIVE IT MUST BE A SAMEFAG!!!ONE!
CAN THE MODS PLEASE, PLEASE JUST HIGHLIGHT ALL OF MY POSTS SO WE CAN BTFO AND SHUT THIS RETARD UP ONCE AND FOR ALL I'M LITERALLY, SERIOUSLY, UNIRONICALLY BEGGING YOU.
They haven't even posted in days, fuck off you absolute retard.
Also, going "mods just please highlight my posts" is kind of pointless when you know for a fact that they won't, it doesn't convince anyone that there wasn't some serious samefaggotry going on in this thread a while back.
see>>116196>m-must be one transphobic samefag!!
and that was 19 hours ago.
That's very clearly not the same person, and they didn't say that everyone was a samefag, simply that there was a samefag here at some point, which is obvious.
You're trying to stir shit, but you're just supporting the point that you're autistic enough to samefag in an internet argument.
and once again, the post you replied to wasn't me you fucking cretin.
Okay? I mean, it's the exact same writing style, and if you're trying to play that off as it being your first post, you're really over the top angry about someone not being able to tell you and someone who continued your argument with the exact same writing style without saying they were a different person apart.
Why are you trying so hard?
Or maybe it's time to stop shitting up the thread, and realise that everyone can tell when your autistic ass is posting?
It's not exactly hard to figure out, you've even got the same habit of "Say stupid shit then as soon as someone points out it's stupid just claim that it was someone else".
Oh cool, you've just gone back to "no u" now.
Let me guess, you're the one who got mad in the meta thread about how mods wouldn't ban people you didn't like as well?
And you must >>>meta/3515/.
Literally ALL of your contribution ITT has been "lol samefag" and "lol ur mad" Classic tactics frome someone who got BTFO'd. It's not unreasonable you tell you to STFU.
>>117087>Yep, I am
lol you're so fucking pathetic.
>because it's really fucking obvious
God, you just won't give up will you?
>>117088>lol you're so fucking pathetic.
What an excellent argument.
>God, you just won't give up will you?
It's not like I've got anywhere else to be.
But seriously, you're the only one claiming anyone got BTFO in this thread. You tried to jump on the back of other people, despite those people not agreeing with you in the slightest.
You constantly come back to go "Haha wow all those people calling samefag sure are autistic morons!", just to try to get more people to respond to you.
I'm not the only one who's been claiming this, there's been several other posters in the thread calling you out on it.
And your insane over sensitivity to being called out and then going back to "wow it's not even me who posted that one you just replied to why are you samefag anons so retarded?" makes it even more obvious.
>>117090>You know where was absolutely nothing in your post to argue with right, cunt?
You sound awfully mad. Why don't you just close the tab and go for a walk, clear your head instead of throwing a tantrum in the thread?
Also, you know that if being called a samefag gets to you so much, you could just, not do it, and actually contribute to the thread in a meaningful way, right?
kek I'll take that as an admission that I'm right.
>You sound awfully mad. Why don't you just close the tab and go for a walk, clear your head instead of throwing a tantrum in the thread?
Heed your own advice? You realize your replies are waaay more timely than mine, right? Have you not noticed I only respond to this thread every other day?
Man, you've accused other posters of so much shit you're much more guilty of than anyone else. I don't even think it's a lack of self-awareness at this point. Did you take a page from donald trump's argument tactics?
It's pretty obvious to everyone with half a brain cell what you're doing here:>argue for trannies>get BTFO'd>resorts to persistent samefagging attacks in order to derail the original argument
Good for you nobody's talking about trannies anymore, huh? If you can, respond to the posts you once called samefagging with actual arguments. I'll wait.
>>117093>Have you not noticed I only respond to this thread every other day?
Have you noticed I've only been posting for a couple days, with like a week break in the middle?
>Man, you've accused other posters of so much shit you're much more guilty of than anyone else
>Did you take a page from donald trump's argument tactics?
Well, seeing as he's the current leader of the free world, I don't really see why that would be a terrible comparison to make.
>argue for trannies>get BTFO'd>resorts to persistent samefagging attacks in order to derail the original argument
But I wasn't BTFO, the person I was talking to stopped responding and just piggybacked on someone else who agreed with me but thought I'd made too strong a statement, and should have worded it slightly differently.
Also, once again, very telling you're using the exact same wording as literally the only person I've accused of samefagging in this thread.
>If you can, respond to the posts you once called samefagging with actual arguments
Every single one I've mentioned being a samefag that also presented arguments, I addressed.
Not a single time have I just gone "lol samefag" to a post that actually raised any points.
Tell me though, do you honestly believe that these>>115319>>115329>>115684
As well as several earlier on, that all got posted within an hour of the original argument, all of whom just either post the exact same shit or insults of the opposition, and then disappar aren't samefags?
Because these are the only posts I've accused of it, I'm not the same person as>>115842>>116077>>116097
There's some later posts that I'd argue are samefaggotry too, namely >>115964>>116164
Because they have the same unnecessary sage, same posting inflammatory shit to get a response, same baseless accusation that anyone who disagrees is a tranny or libtard.
I don't believe that>>115838>>115902>>115915>>115920>>114574
And many others are the samefag.
Do you get my point now?
>>117094>>115319 not me>>115329 not me>>115684 me>>115842 not me>>116077 not me>>116097 not me>>115964 not me>>116164 not me>>115838>>115902>>115915>>115920>>114574
Yep. None of which are me.
Only 1 (ONE) of the 8 posts you think I made ended up being mine.
>Do you get my point now?
Yeah. Thank goodness you made your point so clear. Just goes further to show how wrong and retarded and desperate you really are. I can finally stop being mad and start laughing at your retardation now. Thank you.
Yeah, I'm sure those people all just appeared at the same time as you, agreed with you in the same language as you've been using, then just vanished.
And did you even read what I fucking said? Three of the posts you said weren't you I never even claimed were you, I just said I didn't post them. Learn to read, moron.
The last two you posted once again pretty obviously were though, or do you expect anyone to believe that they just appeared within an hour or so of you posting, agreed with you and attacked your opponent, then just vanished? They didn't contribute at all, just exclusively posted the same things as you were saying, in the same language as you've been using for ages.
>Just goes further to show how wrong and retarded and desperate you really are
Says the person who can't even understand basic sentences.
>>>/meta/3530>You didn't even reply to any post. You didn't dispute anything except for claiming that someone called you a samefag at some point.
Because it's fucking obvious which posts I was referring to unless you're a retard (which you probably are at this point). And putting a dozen quotes in one posts is very much frowned upon. And, what is there to dispute? The "samefag" screamer stopped talking about transgenderism long ago. Am I supposed to somehow force them back onto topic or something?
Why are you targeting that post specifically? What exactly is your fucking problem with it? That it should've had more quotes in it?
God, I have no idea what you're even trying to achieve at this point.
these were my posts. Have fun arguing with them, though I may not reply simply because I'm so fucking sick of you:>>114151>>114152>>117096>still refuses to accept the truth
Not surprised. It's a lost cause at this point.
>Yeah, I'm sure those people all just appeared at the same time as you, agreed with you in the same language as you've been using, then just vanished.>those posts are all made by you!!!1!1
>And did you even read what I fucking said? Three of the posts you said weren't you I never even claimed were you, I just said I didn't post them. Learn to read, moron.>I never said they were made by you!!1!1!
LMAO YOU'VE REALLY LOST IT NOW
>>117098>Because it's fucking obvious which posts I was referring to unless you're a retard
Apparently not. Just give some indication to what you posted.
>Why are you targeting that post specifically? What exactly is your fucking problem with it? That it should've had more quotes in it?
That it should have had literally any quotes in it to show what posts you were talking about.
>these were my posts. Have fun arguing with them, though I may not reply simply because I'm so fucking sick of you:
You didn't even raise any arguments in it, just insulted transgender people, and made false comparisons.
I agree with the second post completely.
>those posts are all made by you!!!1!1
Yes, that's what I was saying, very good anon.
>I never said they were made by you!!1!1!
Kek, so you actually can't read then? See here>I'm not the same person as
No accusation of you being them, just saying I'm not the person who posted those retarded accusations.
>I don't believe that[…] And many others are the samefag.
I outright said I didn't think they were the same person.
>LMAO YOU'VE REALLY LOST IT NOW
Well, at least I've managed to hold onto some basic reading comprehension
>>117103>Because you compared a social construct (which gender objectively is, and has been long before the argument with transexuals was around to this degree) to a biological deformity.
lmao what? Are you having a fucking stroke? Being born with XXX or XXY chromosomes is now a ~~social construct~~?
What the fuck am I reading
Fair enough, I assumed you were responding to the social construct part of that post, not the part where someone pointed out that your claim that xx chromosomes make a girl is disproven by the existence of people with XXY chromosomes that are considered female.
Which has nothing to do with social constructs, hence me assuming you were referring to the part actually talking about them.
Yeah, okay, so I'll take it you've got nothing to actually say if you're just going to pretend I didn't present you with a counter there?
Why bother posting if you just want to act like a retard?
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Looks like the problem is solving itself
How the fuck would a private support group be able to track that? It's been a day, they'd have barely been declared dead and properly processed.
This "PEOPLE ARE KILLING THEMSELVES!!!!1!" crap since the election is so ridiculous.
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>>117117>pretend I didn't present you with a counter there?
But you didn't.
"according to a private support group" aka "I am just saying this and basing it on no real evidence because of my agenda"
I don't even like trump myself but people on tumblr are acting like 12 year olds, "I'M GUNA KILLZ MYSELF IF U DONT STAP IT", but what do I expect from these kind of people.
I know I'm horrible but I can't help feeling smug about that
Suicide is the ultimate admission of defeat
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seen on tumblr today
'dear actual women, please lie to your doctors to help guys play dress up'
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I wouldn't say it's a threat to our femininity, if anything trannies make me feel ultra feminine. It's more the way they wear femininity like a creepy fairground mask. It's like that guy from silence of the lambs, that kind of a feel. They dress weird, fetishise the weirdest parts of femininity and have this weird superiority complex where they feel they're better at being women (????!) I mean imagine a black person obsessing over being asian, or a white person desperately wanting to become black. It's ugh.
They just give me the heebie jeebies
Other than that don't mind them
I only ever knew ONE and that was as an acquaince. It was a guy transitioning to be a girl, he was in his late 40s with a wife and kids. It was weird and everyone felt awkward around him when he dressed female at the office. He left soon after
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You know I go on the /mtfg/ and /translesgen/ on /lgbt/ specifically because they make me feel better about myself?
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I enjoyed browsing this https://www.reddit.com/r/transtimelines/
There is a good portion of passable, good-looking FTMs and just 1 passable, good-looking MTF out of the hundreds there. And of course MTFs make up the vast majority due to autogynephilia being a rampant fetish.
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what is going on with this kid's bone structure
Why did so many of them wait for so long before starting transitioning?
Makes me paranoid that I'll do some stupid shit like that when I get older, even though I've never really had dysphoria, I'm just fine with being a girl. I was a lowkey fakeboi as a teenager though, but that was mostly because I was terrified of being seen as a sex object and grew out of it once I realised nobody gave a fuck.
Because it's not like the world is particularly accepting to trans people. They think "it's OK, I'll just ignore it and it'll go away when I grow up" and then it just gets worse and worse as puberty progressing and dysphoria really sets in as their body changes to something the brain doesn't recognise. Then they hit adulthood and think "it's too late now, I'll bare with it" then it gets ignored until they either just learn to live or decide they can't cope any longer and look into transitioning.
If it becomes more accepted and kids/teens are no longer terrified of telling someone then more will be able to avoid puberty changes and transition in a way that passes more easily.
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holy fuck thats just gross
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christ on a bike how vile
Spoken like a true red piller cough
I mean radfem. I mean literally replace radfem with red piller and women with men and the sentence can otherwise stay the same and is something they regularly say.
Good job on your life choices.
"i don't like pancakes"
wow if you replace the word pancakes with black people you sound like a huge racist!!!! go fuck yourself racist-chan!!!
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I'm probably pitching this in the wrong thread, but are there any MtF in here that can tell me how you can accomplish this amount of cleavage with tape, etc.?
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[there's a second image for these screenshots] i'm assuming this is a trans general thread because it's pretty active and there's debates and stuff.
a friend of mine (blue) sent these to our groupchat and she's confused as hell, and I won't lie, I am too. cis (…annoying ass term) people are transphobic even when they're not.
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LMAO sorry for the big ass pictures, i had a hard time making these collages. i've never used a browser collage maker.
1. Because they want to be oppressed. They want to suffer oppression women suffer, they want to be victims, they love being able to use that card.
2. They like whining about that so that they can feel oppressed.
3. They want to enforce gender stereotypes and being an air head is a common female stereotype.
4. Because they are men and they support men's rights. They give 0 fucks about women and their actual issues.
And people say that they don't have male socialization
This is such a typically male thing to do, being so entitled like this
Oh, I know anon. It's just that I've followed this one since she came out and know she does take hormones and has not gotten her tits done yet, but whatever method she uses can be hidden under a bikini top.>>117674
1. SJWism makes anyone who falls into it feel like a victim, its gotten into lgbt communities (t has beared a lot of the brunt of that.)
2. See above, the SJWs are obsessed with feelings, not getting it right the first time triggers
the snowflakes feelings.
3. Stereotypes, largely. Some people actually are dumb and just don't try. (see: every lolcow posted here ever)and those who are being dumb on purpose are probably doing it for attention.
4. Because Caitlyn Jenner is a vapid, rich celebrity that doesn't care about the little people's problems. Exactly like a large majority of celebrities in general.
Well, at least they specified that it's only for people who care
Diff anon but to me personally it just makes them want to kill themselves even more afterwards. Isn't that a fact they always try to hide? People say it's proven by researches. Not gonna look for it now, but you've probably read about it too. Why give them a surgery only to enable their crazy fantasies and that will make their chances of suicide higher?
Is there a mastermind behind all of this who's giving them surgeries so the world can get rid of them sooner?
It's not, that's a myth, and there's been some sources provided showing the opposite in this thread.
They kill themselves at rates above average, but this is true for a lot of mental disorders even after treatment.
Schizophrenics and Bipolar people kill themselves at a higher rate than average even after successfully treated too, but we obviously aren't going to stop medicating them, it just means they're still a risk group that needs follow up therapy.
I think it's important to remember that transitioning is treated similarly to stuff like ECT. A last resort treatment for really severe cases that haven't shown any improvement to other stuff. Not something you just give to everyone with related issues. It's too risky for that, and if it goes wrong, you can't really reverse it.
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This is an asinine argument and shows you know nothing of modern genetics, XXY syndrome or the more studied one that I know of XYY syndrome or Jacobs syndrome are not evidence of an emerging "third sex" or whatever you want to argue, they aren't evidence of a intermediate and you must provide evidence for this claim. Hermaphrodites are not evidence they are genetic abnormalities with a very low rate of occurrence.
Men with XYY syndrome appear completely normal in most cases, with some not knowing they have it until they see their karyotype, some are infertile taller than average men, notably have wide hips or unusual feminine bone structure but the vast majority don't bother having their genome sequenced. My professor actually theorized that the Y chromosome is becoming redundant with each meiotic division during prezygotic reproduction this doesn't mean males will become extinct it means the genetic material carried by the Y chromosome is becoming redundant from the majority of useful enzymes/proteins creating genes which the X chromosomes carry, sex linked genes are hardly ever inherited by women (think female balding) because of the double X chromosome which cancels out the expression for the conditions genotype.
genetic abnormalities are not in support nor evidence of trannies. This is an argument from incredulity and misinformation.
Outside of the objectivity of the matter in my opinion it seems to be a fetish based thing certainly with great psychological and physiological impact but it has not been observed in primates nor the animal kingdom at the very least. Parallel this to gay behaviour for example which has been theorized to have a evolutionary origin and purpose at aiding survival of offspring ergo an adaptation and beneficial advantage likely to be selected for.
Inb4 I get outed for being a tranny hater for taking a introductory BIO101 genetics class.
Or you bio proffessor is a tranny hater.
Im gonna wait until science gets finished with all of this instead cutting all conclusions in stone.
>>119083>Or you bio proffessor is a tranny hater.
AHAHAHA that's one way to get tenure right "tranny hating."
It's like your so blinded by your tranny defense that you didn't even read my post properly.
>Im gonna wait until science gets finished with all of this instead cutting all conclusions in stone.
I'm not cutting any conclusions yet but I did share my opinion on the matter while debunking that retarded rare allosomal disorders argument that tranny defenders use constantly to say stuff disingenuous like there is a third sex and shit. For the "science" it's not looking good for trannies with the animal kingdom not engaging in such behavior, even before Gayness was proven to have a genetic link behaviour was ubiquitous across the animal kingdom.
>>117687>4. Why do some trans women, like Caitlyn Jenner, support people who are against women's rights?
I have come across a lot of mtf online who are against any form of feminism and womens rights yet do not see this as being in conflict with then demanding their rights. I guess its cognitive dissonance or maybe they just want to replace women.
>3. Why do I come across so many mtf trans people who do the whole air head role?
Because thats how they think real women really are and thats who they want to be.
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>>119260>What about male gorillas trying to breastfeed gorilla kids?
Well fuck pack it up looks like trannies are real we have one vague psuedo meekly observed behaviour in male gorillas never mind the fact that male lactation is a common physiological activity associated with breast feeding and bonding in most mammals and especially primates.
Lets cherry pick random, vague animal behaviour to provide evidence for the justification of cutting our dicks off.
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>>119260>look at this example of gender norms being "broken" (as if humans didn't create them) it means the gorilla is a tranny right
I fucking hate transallies.
I dunno if it's just that she's ana-chan but I can usually spot a tranny right away and if this one wasn't talking about how she was a tranny I'd have no idea. Hands are still man-hands but if I didn't know better I'd just think it was a girl with man-hands. Posted a video because someone complained that stills don't show enough. My money is on the fact that at the time of the video at least she also smelled like a girl and had soft skin.
Although at the end of the day I believe this is a feminine gay dude, despite my use of female pronouns. He's adopted the trappings of femininity to make himself more appealing to men, it's weird but it makes sense.
I'm totally with the radfems on this one, the SJW line about transitioning is maniacal enforcement of gender roles. In fact I think the SJW's are the most racist, sexist band of prescriptive bigots out there. There are no rules to say that dudes can't use moisturiser and grow long hair and bleach it, thus obtaining 'straight' dick (sexuality is a whole other discussion), but it doesn't make them women.
As for trans 'lesbians', the horniness, sluttiness, entitlement complex, demands for attention, sympathy, special treatment etc is insipid and makes me sick. Women are too damn nice. Can't we have a feminist movement in which women actually stand up for themselves instead of getting derailed by a band of perverts and nutjobs? The SJW tranny shit is a big reason feminism has gotten to be a dirty word IMO.
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See, this is why I think most MtF just want the attention of being female, and aren't actually interested in adopting a feminine identity as a whole. They only ever want the good
sexually desirable aspects of being a woman and never the bad. I've never seen a MtF go for modest brunette with small tittums, for instance. Whenever I see a MtF they're always most concerned with their sexual displays and never about anything else. It's just so performative, like they're wearing a costume.
They want the attention-grabbing bleached hair, white skin, bolt-on boobs, light eyes, etc. Basically a bimbo stereotype. Yet at the same time they demand everyone respect them just for 'passing' and holding the ideal image of a woman.
Horse face and anus lips. Ew.
You're right, anon. Honestly these fucking transwoman are just delusional horny men with deep issues. And just like any other delusional horny men, they're fucking disgusting.
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What do you expect of men with gynephilia, paraphilias aren't pretty.>>119673
Why do all these trannies feel the need to be overly feminine and act like stupid valley girls, what an insult to women. A lot of them are unjustly vain as fuck too like this one, FTM come across as far less ostentatious.
And stop saying Cis and Trans it already has a meaning in modern chemistry and genetics, you know the industries which allowed you to have your dick cut off and pump yourself with oncogenic hormones to begin with, show some goddamn respect for reality instead of injecting a false reality into yourselves.
coulda phrased that better but it's "nothing sexually aggressive" would be more accurate. Considering that is the major stereotype the radfems push of the trannies.
>>119786>not sexually exploitative in any way>posts videos of bikini and bra haul showing manly chest
You must have missed in my earlier post>Why do all these trannies feel the need to be overly feminine and act like stupid valley girls
because essentially this tranny may be passable to your eye but is still perpetuating that retarded stereotype of how they imagine women are.
First of all, the ones who lump themselves are the autoandrophiles and autogynephiles by saying they are trans.
Also stop using the term terf because it's extremely mysoginist, thank you.
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I wanna bitch slap this kids parents. Pink hair, pink shirt and pink outfits. Oh tell me more about being a girl
Actually, it seems like his mom raised him specifically to be trans.
Here's her thread on kiwi farms:https://kiwifarms.net/threads/debi-jackson-trans-parenting-com.26655/
why are you so upset that trans people are even just being referred to as trans?
what else would you even call them?
what made you believe that an evil elite has even the people here under their thumb by simply acknowledging lgbt people?
I feel like you've probably slipped off from the fringes of TERF-fascism into full blown schizophrenia.
>>172615>People shouldn't be allowed to "transition" they just need therapy.
Therapy doesn't fix an issue like dysphoria at the most it could help you repress or maybe prevent suicide.
Unfortunately transitioning is the best option available.
>That's why they all kill themselves.
This is misinformation commonly spread by TERFs and anti-LGBT groups.
Roughly 40% of trans people who don't attempt to transition attempt suicide.
According to the NHS, 96% of British trans people felt their life had significantly improved after transitioning, even despite the negative social consequences.
>Do you seriously think doing all that shit to be the opposite gender makes them happy?
They're not doing shit to be the opposite gender, they're mostly just popping a few pills to make their physical bodies match their brain gender.
Science has literally proven that trans people have brain structures more similar to their gender identity than their assigned sex.
And yes, it does make them happier.
>That it is any way a justifiable action?
Yes. It's justifiable to treat gender dysphoria because it is an illness that needs treatment.
>It doesn't, and I think it's cruel to enable people
So it's cruel to give people the freedom to express themselves as what gender their brain physically is and to do what they want with their bodies, as opposed to being forced to repress and live as a sex that doesn't match their brain??
>>172608>implying that all political issues fit into a black and white labeling system >implying that all people must fit into one of these two arbitrary sides>implying that falling to one side means that you must be in agreement of all facets of that arbitrary label
Fighting liberalism is a ridiculous concept. It's not a concrete thing. It's just some label that was made up to scoop a bunch of tangentially related viewpoints into one category.
You should focus on fighting against an actual thing that's happening, like trans people caricaturing the concept of womanhood, instead of being vague and meaningless.
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>>172613>"What do you mean 'elites'? Conspiracy theorist!">"White privilege is real!"
Your politics are liberal without you even realizing it, the very air you breath in the western world is liberal. The entirety of mainstream western politics is liberal because it has been dominated by a dichotomy that was established during and after the French Revolution (Left and Right) based upon very specific axioms about the world (left = equality is the primary moral good, right = individual liberty is the primary moral good).
Westerners are autistic and incapable of understanding political nuance, which is why any non-democratic form of government is viewed as inherently illegitimate and why their elites go around the world bombing and killing until everyone within the target zone is permitted to vote.
>It's not a concrete thing.
I've just identified how it's a concrete thing. It is literally defined by two single axiomatic deductive approaches to morality: Equality as moral good, individual liberty as moral good. Whatever derives from that is basically mainstream politics from Berlin to Washington.
>You should focus on fighting against an actual thing that's happening
lol, like the conservatives have been doing so well for 60 years?
You literally just described an arbitrary, made up dichotomy. You could also divide all political issues into whether they prioritize merit over empathy, or two other such non-mutually exclusive concepts.
It's only useful as a classification system to people who are on the extreme ends.
It is the political dichotomy that defines politics in the entire western world.
Name a single western country that doesn't fall into "left" or "right" approaches to politics.
>It's only useful as a classification system to people who are on the extreme ends.
By western standards virtually every single non-western country would be "extreme right" politically. You realize this, right?
Just because it's widely used on a generalized scale doesn't make it any less retarded on an individual scale.
You can call things "right" and "left" all you want, but it doesn't say anything about what you're actually fighting against.
And so many issues can be painted as being both sides depending on how you spin it. Example: Bruce Jenner. He's super conservative and doesn't support gay rights, but manages to get around that and rationalize his crossdressing & love for dick by calling himself a woman in a man's body. There are people on the right that support trannies too, there's just not as many.
>By western standards virtually every single non-western country would be "extreme right" politically
What is Norway. What is Australia. What is Finland. What is New Zealand. What is Switzerland. What is Denmark. What is France. What is Iceland…
>>172647>doesn't make it any less retarded on an individual scale.
You're clueless. I'm not arguing it's not retarded. It is retarded. Just like the axiomatic principles upon which is based are retarded.
My point is that it is a real and meaningful dichotomy that exists in every single "western" country and controls the political environment and overton window, more or less.
> Example: Bruce Jenner. He's super conservative and doesn't support gay rights, but manages to get around that and rationalize his crossdressing & love for dick by calling himself a woman in a man's body.
I really don't care about varying degrees of degeneracy. If it makes a group maladaptive in the struggle for survival, it's bad behavior and should be discouraged. Simple as that. I can assure that however Jenner justifies himself, he does so using the logic of one part of liberal philosophy or another.
>What is Norway. What is Australia. What is Finland. What is New Zealand. What is Switzerland. What is Denmark. What is France. What is Iceland…
These are all western countries. Jesus Christ I'm actually arguing with a person who doesn't realize Denmark and France are part of the Western World.
You're even dumber than /mu/.
jfc, if Denmark and France are part of the "Western" world to you then you're literally just using the Western World to mean liberal countries. Of course the liberal countries are liberal you fucking moron.
You're never going to enact any sort of social change by whinging about one side of a false dichotomy. Do better.
>>172662>you're literally just using the Western World to mean liberal countries
Are you really this clueless?
The division between west and east goes back to Plato and Aristotle. East and West of Asia Minor. Countries like NZ and Australia are just extensions of the anglosphere founded by diaspora Europeans anyway.
>You're never going to enact any sort of social change by whinging about one side of a false dichotomy.
We're already winning all over the world. The left is dead or dying all over the west. And the world beyond the confines of Europe and North America is already ruled by hardcore nationalist realtalkers (e.g. Duterte).
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WHAT THE FUCK, SPOILER THAT SHIT
>>113837>Right, better to date a cis woman because as a trans woman you're stronger than her.
Is this really the reason you think trans women date cis women? Wow.
You realize HRT kills muscle mass, right? I know plenty of cis guys who are weaker than their cis girlfriends. Hell, lesbians themselves have a higher domestic violence rate than straight relationships. What is this imaginary scenario of yours meant to prove?
>>172654>My point is that it is a real and meaningful dichotomy that exists in every single "western" country and controls the political environment and overton window, more or less.
You're completely ignoring that even if you simplify every single political group to left and right, and ignore that one left group is not necessarily the same as the others, economic and social policies are just as important.
>If it makes a group maladaptive in the struggle for survival, it's bad behavior and should be discouraged.
Why do so many people that go on about these similar topics end up going on about "muh survival"?
Not only is it completely fucking irrelevant in todays world where people survive all sorts of things that otherwise should have killed them, but it's the most incredibly arbitrary standard to use.
Should we ban all food that isn't the absolute nutritional optimum? Get rid of TV's or any sort of time waster, of course, that's not helpful for survival.
And either way, you realise that you can't just discourage an illness away, right? You treat it, and for this particular case, transitioning is the best treatment we have.
And seriously, get off your high horse about "fighting liberalism", you can't fight an entire section of the political spectrum, at most you can fight particular policies or ideologies.
What sort of a stupid question is this? Anyone can post here as long as they don't break the rules, there's no rule against guys posting, hell, even a robot could come over here and post assuming they're not obnoxious cunts about everything.
The whole point is that we don't know who's behind each post, it's the benefit of anonymity.>>172908
Masculine just means it's traditionally associated with men.
You can't have a feminine penis, because a penis is an exclusively male feature, biologically speaking.
File: 1482298189206.jpg (43.15 KB, 720x599, IMG_20161221_012411.jpg)
>There's no such thing as "masculine by definition". It's a completely abstract adjective that can't be measured in any way.
Are you a delusional tranny?
Do you realize only MEN have penises, right?
Penis = masculine.
It's not an abstract concept like masculinity/femininity. It's literally about dicks.
It's not complete bullshit like one poster said, but it's not really very different>https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml>Violence appears to be about as common among lesbian couples as among heterosexual couples (1,5). In addition, the cycle of violence occurs in both types of relationships.
Sources are provided in the discussion of course, as well as the authors credentials.
There's some evidence to suggest that they don't report it anywhere near as much as other groups (same with male homosexuals), but it's impossible to argue actual numbers off that, so it's not useful as much more than just something to keep in mind.>>172926
This is pretty bad logic.
Cohabitants means any women that live with each other, and there's a heap more straight than gay women out there, so more women reporting being abused by male partners doesn't mean that men are overall more abusive.
Not arguing that lesbians are more abusive, just pointing out that this Tumblr rant doesn't really prove what you seem to think it does.
Also worth noting is that it's posted by a blog called fucking "eatsmenshearts", who is very clearly biased and trying to twist the data to fit their own beliefs.
File: 1482334984172.jpg (47.56 KB, 482x700, little boy.jpg)
>National Geographic has "made history," we're told, by featuring an image of a confused young boy dressed up like a girl. "The best thing about being a girl is now I don't have to pretend to be a boy," the boy is quoted as saying right on the cover. If this is "historic" at all, it's only historic because it's the first time a major American magazine has so openly advertised and promoted the sexual abuse of children.
>In a more sane world, the parents of this kid and the people in charge of the magazine would be facing criminal charges for the abuse and exploitation of a child. But in the real world, a world where sanity is nearing extinction, millions will buy this issue and shout "Amen!" as this poor boy's psychological and emotional trauma is paraded in front of them triumphantly.
>What a funny thing. It turns out, after all, that a child will grow up to be deluded and confused about his gender if his sick, disturbed parents go out of their way to encourage and foment such delusion. And if his parents decide, as these parents have decided, to turn him into a public mascot for the LGBT agenda, he will become all the more lost and bewildered. Huh. Who could have possibly predicted such a thing?
>I'm so sick to death of this "transgender" insanity. This is just an academic issue. It isn't some abstract, theoretical debate. This is something that is actively, seriously, profoundly injuring many children. The "transgender" myth is more than a myth. It is a vehicle for the abuse and degradation of children. And for that reason I make absolutely no effort to soften my words when I denounce it. Child sexual abuse is pure evil. And it deserves to be called evil. And dressing a young boy up in skirts and dresses and telling him he's really a girl inside is sexual abuse, without question. So it is evil. Pure evil.
>May God have mercy on the people who hurt children in order to further their ideological agenda. And may we one day live in a rational and decent country where such people are put in prison where they belong.
Fucking hilarious. As other anon pointed out, you definitely missed all the other valid points made here that explain why we "hate" (boo hoo hoo), sick trannies.
Have fun pretending to be a girl in the other threads and getting away with it. God knows it can't happen IRL, so enjoy!!
>>172931>posted in the makeup threads so you must have all assumed I was cis
You're bragging about people assuming that you're an ugly, masculine woman. Of course they're going to think that when you look like an ugly man, but tell people that you're a woman.
A medical disorder is not an ideology.
Some retards on Tumblr pretending to be it and turning it into a joke because it's trendy doesn't make the disorder less of an issue, or people with it need less support, no more than tards pretending to have Bipolar makes Bipolar a not real joke of a disorder.
I don't disagree it isn't a medical problem, it obviously is a mental one, but you can't disagree it has also become an ideology. And an extremely flawed and contradictory one as other anons have pointed out in the thread.>>172990
not only that. he is bragging because people assumed he was a girl… in an anonymous imageboard. filled with girls. where no one can he his manly face, masculine body, stubble, deep yet gayish voice, etcoh… and despair kek
Honestly, I don't think anyone's seriously argued in support of the people who turn it into a political thing or ideology in this thread, just pointing that being shitty to people who suffer the disorder or are trying to transition (which is an effective treatment compared to what else we have) is ridiculous.
I do think it's worth arguing that people who present a traditional gender role are doing it to over present themselves as female. If you want to show people how feminine you are, it's very easy to go with traditional stuff, it's the most well known and the most obvious to see.
Same as if you wanted people to see you as a guy you'd go with traditionally masculine things.
Basically just read this:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation>inb4 you can't trust Wikipedia
Then check all the scientific articles and studies sourced.
Hormone levels influence organ development and dimorphism.
And they effect brain development at a different time in fetal development to all the other organs.
I heard a theory that it's just a modern form of conversion therapy. Check out this interview:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3649055/Thank-God-didn-t-sex-change-Gay-actor-Rupert-Everett-tells-grew-wanting-girl-cautions-against-allowing-children-make-rash-decisions-surgery.html
It's easier for parents to accept that their kid is just a heterosexual transgirl/boy than homosexual. I used to be into trans rights and believed gender dysphoria was a real issue that required surgeries and hormones, but honestly after reading up on the patients, I'm slowly turning into a TERF. A lot of detransitioners are criticizing medical field professionals because they don't offer any alternatives to gender dysphoria or talk about the risks and outcomes of the surgeries enough, and most of them didn't realize until after transition that they're actually cis, just gay. Most gender dysphoria is either trying to cope with either homosexuality or some kind of a sexual trauma such as molestation. Transitioning is a "partial suicide" so to speak.
As pretty much everyone arguing for trans people has said, it is a mental illness, but the best cure we have is gender reassignment.
Sure, sometimes people go through the surgery that shouldn't, and aren't really trans, just struggling with identity that leads into them experiencing some gender dysphoria, and that's something to work on.
But mentally ill people do deserve compassion and support, even if their treatment is slightly more uncomfortable to think about than 600mg of seroquel a day is.
As pretty much everyone arguing for depressed people have said, it is a mental illness, but the best cure we have is to commit suicide.
….does that sound logical or okay?
Sources have been provided over and over in the thread, I'm not going to just spoonfeed them to you.
It reduces dysphoria and greatly reduces the suicide risk. Their global functioning becomes much higher.
It is absolutely the best current treatment (not cure, they do generally need follow up therapy, same as a schizophrenic or bipolar person on meds would). Maybe it won't be in the future, but you can't refuse to treat people because there might be a better option eventually, one day.>>173270
No, because being dead isn't a fucking cure to a disease, it's being dead.
That's a completely ridiculous argument to make.
How is indulging in a fantasy and surgically deforming your body a good option? These people are trying to become something they simply can't
be. That's the truth. Even if they could REALLY pass as real men or women (which the vast majority don't, and when they do it's usually a few FtM), just take away their hormones, even if they're post op. Their bodies will gradually change what they didn't chop off, etc: the voice will change, so will body hair, among other things.
Also, not even doctors and therapists can decide what individuals should get go under the knife and who shouldn't. Fake trans people get their heads on hormones and a green light to get surgery done all the time, which is absolutely mindblowing. In the end going through that process just makes more victims and causes more self hate.
Like other anons have mentioned in the thread, some of those individuals are fetishists. Others can't accept their homosexuality and would rather be trans than gay. And others just can't accept/hate themselves so they start this process to "become" a new individual.
In the end it's all really sad. Surgery is definitely not a good option. It's like a band-aid on a deep, huge wound.
You're right in that we don't really understand the disorder well enough, and it's a super hard decision to make to decide who's eligible for the surgery, in my country at least it takes a long time before doctors even consider it, as in years and years of therapy and making sure there's not other mental illness causing it, or that other stuff wouldn't help more.
But it's just flat out ignoring the facts to say it doesn't help. Every study done on the topic demonstrates that it does in fact improve their functioning and general mental state. It's not a full blown cure to all their problems, but very very few things in mental health are.
With appropriate followup and care taken to make sure you're dealing with an actual trans person instead of someone with gender dysphoria caused by other issues, it's a very, very useful tool in their treatment. It might not be the best, but it's the best available so far.
Also, the whole theory about people choosing to be trans instead of homosexual seems kind of unlikely to me, being trans is far, far more frowned upon than being gay, for any reason. Homosexuality is socially completely acceptable, and if it was for religious reasons, well, I don't exactly think that changing your gender would exactly be any better off, would you?
That seems very far fetched to me, though I do agree with part of the article provided, that we should in no cases allow minors to transition. Kids do all sorts of crap, doesn't make them trans. Same as a 5 year old pretending to be a dog doesn't make them an otherkin.
Can you stop with the homosexuality counterargument? Since when is being gay the same thing as hacking off perfectly healthy limbs or fucking up perfectly functional hormones within your body?
God I am so goddamn sick of you trannys always having to be like "But the gays can be gay why can't we be trannies??!!"
Sometimes accepting that you have a serious health/mental problem (being born in the wrong body) that you have no control of is easier than accepting your homosexuality.
Believe, lots of people still hate on gays. And many still believe homosexuality is a choice.I personally knew a guy who had a trans phase. When he grew out of it he told me he just couldn't accept that he liked dick so he believed he had to be a straight girl.
I'm really concerned about this kid's future. What will happen if he gets older and decides this was all some kind of phase possibly brought on by pressure from mommy and daddy wanted a special snowflake trans kid? Putting a kid like this on National Geographic is a bad move. Why didn't they at least use an adult? At least then you know it's a fully formed individual capable of making their own choices about their identity.
Every time you see one of these trans kids they have colored hair and extremely stereotypical gendered clothing. It's like the parents are trying way to hard to push the narrative that little Timmy is now little Tammy. I'm assuming this poor child has already been outed by his insane parental units. But now the whole world knows he is trans. I think that is a horrible thing to do whether it's a phase or not. All to get those snowflake brownie points all the way too left leaning parents want these days.
I replaced trans with depression to try to make you realize how fucking ridiculous you are, but alas, you're just too fucking ridiculous.
I can't believe I have to fucking explain this to you, but if we just let all depressed people kill themselves, would that be beneficial to the patient? It's the same fucking thing with cutting peoples genitals and rearranging them like a bouquet. You're just too fucked to realize the similarities.
Have fun with your festering wound.
I think you should reread my post if you think that's what I was saying.>>173293
I'll admit some very young gay people might think that way, but I don't think that makes any sense to an adult, who understands what being gay is.
Being trans is much, much more stigmatised than being gay is.
I do want to repeat myself though, minors shouldn't be allowed to transition, ever. It's far too large a decision to let a kid decide whether they need it.>>173309
I don't think anyone outside retarded tumblr sorts calls themselves trans because it's more special, and those sorts aren't really relevant to the discussion, because they aren't legitimately trans.
It's like including self diagnosed schizophrenics and bipolar people in an actual discussion of the illness, it's pointless.>>173311
Come on, I thought you were just being retarded on purpose, but if you honestly think that a surgical solution is the same as suicide, I don't see what there is I can say to you.
The whole point of treatment is to lower their risk of suicide and improve their overall global functioning. Suicide doesn't achieve that, obviously.
Pretty hypocritical to call other people ridiculous with an argument that poor, don't you think?
If you think that doctors should take into consideration your need to mutilate yourself, that's ridiculous.
There are people who psychologically believe their limbs don't belong to them and want to cut them off, but you don't see doctors entertaining that idea.
Now you can continue insisting that trans people are the genders they want to be but biologically, that is incorrect.
>>173326>I'll admit some very young gay people might think that way, but I don't think that makes any sense to an adult, who understands what being gay is.
Being trans is much, much more stigmatised than being gay is.
It may not make sense to you
or in your life, however that is how many people really think. Just see >>173293
My mother is an extremely religious person and think homosexuality is wrong, but feels bad for trans and doesn't see them as 'fags' like the other gays because "they were born in the wrong bodies".
Also, keep in mind that there's a ton of adults who are extremely immature, change their minds every 5 min, are stupid, easily influenciable, etc.
(especially if they are young adults from tumblr, kek)
Surprisingly sometimes being a special trannie (who everyone feels bad for/calls brave) is easier and than a normie homo.
You actually do, last line of treatment for people who have that belief is to remove the extremity in question.
Doesn't happen as much (likely because it's very rare as far as mental illnesses go), but it does happen.>>173342>My mother is an extremely religious person and think homosexuality is wrong, but feels bad for trans and doesn't see them as 'fags' like the other gays because "they were born in the wrong bodies".
Someone who feels bad for being gay as a result of religion isn't going to feel any better being trans, being trans is like a whole other level of wrong as far as religious beliefs go.
>Also, keep in mind that there's a ton of adults who are extremely immature, change their minds every 5 min, are stupid, easily influenciable, etc.
For sure, but those people aren't legitimately trans, and do need to be weeded out in the long process that people with gender dysphoria are supposed to go through before surgery is considered an option.
That's what you think. But like others have said, trannys have the whole "born in the wrong body" argument. That's something that's really hard to grasp. I mean most people never stop to consider what is a body and what makes a body yours. Also there's so much philosophical shit like how people will never truly see their face as it looks (mirrors are reversed) unless you have an identical twin but even then
Trannys just open up a can of worms that just make the religious or conservative feel sorry for. Gays literally like the same sex so it's easy to grasp, easy to condemn
Well, first off, homosexuality isn't mentioned negatively in the Christian bible, just jewish texts, yet people still look down on it. That's from my understanding, that all the Biblical quotes about gay people are OT, which isn't relevant to Christians really, overall at least.
And as for trans people, it's easily able to be considered to be playing god, trying to subvert his will. Just because something isn't directly mentioned in the Bible doesn't mean it's approved of in religious terms.
The two trannies i know irl don't even look pretty and even though one of them thinks s/he passes, everyone was asking me if she was trans before I introduced them because they knew something was really off, lmao.
I think trannies want to think that women see them as rivals, but only really
insecure girls do. No straight man wants a tranny over a real woman, even if she's average looking.
I can't "prove" you wrong because trannies always insist on the "women are jealous of me hurr durr" even when it's obvious that's not the case.
I don't get this myth at all.
Sure there's a few insane creepy people who pretend to be like an anime girl or a stereotype.
But I'm certainly not trying to act like anything or like some idea of what it means to be feminine, I just act however feels natural to me and I think most trans people do the same.
Both are OT, not NT.
It's outright said that Christians aren't held to the cultural laws of the old testament, only divine law (so stuff like the commandments).
Here's a good readhttps://biblethumpingliberal.com/2011/05/19/you-can%E2%80%99t-quote-leviticus-to-prove-god-hates-homosexuality/>Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. (Galatians 3:13)
The OT is important, but Christians are in no way bound to the old Law in the OT. The whole point of Christ dying was to free us from that, and the concept of original sin.
The anons who mentioned religion and homosexuality were just explaining why some religious families may feel that being trans is better than gay.
the biblical explanation to the is homosexuality a sin is honestly just derailing the thread.
There's a ton of religious people who do think that regardless of gayness being a sin or not.
so moving on and let's focus on trannies.
sage for obvious reasons
Of course, but I'm simply pointing out that it's not true. You might not like it for cultural reasons, but that's not religious ones.
And once again,I don't see any logic behind people saying they're trans because they're ashamed of being gay. Being trans is way more stigmatised than being gay, I don't think anyone but a kid who doesn't really understand that being gay is a thing yet and only gets "Boys like girls, girls like boys" as far as sexuality goes. But even then, seems pretty unlikely.
If anyone has a source talking about it, I'd be interested to see.
Yes.The gay people pushed to change their genderIran is one of a handful of countries where homosexual acts are punishable by death. Clerics do, however accept the idea that a person may be trapped in a body of the wrong sex. So homosexuals can be pushed into having gender reassignment surgery - and to avoid it many flee the country.
From the site:>It's not official government policy to force gay men or women to undergo gender reassignment but the pressure can be intense. In the 1980's the founder of the Islamic Republic, Ayatollah Khomeini, issued a fatwa allowing gender reassignment surgery - apparently after being moved by a meeting with a woman who said she was trapped in a man's body.http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690
Not Christian, but religion related anyway. I'm sure you can find Christian ones if you look well enough though.
I understand why you keep insisting that people don't think like this, or that if they're do that means they're kids, etc but reality is different. Many do. I'm >>173293
and I have a gay friend who came out as a transwoman because he didn't want to be seen as homosexual (and yes, his family is Christian though not very religious)
Come on, we're not talking about Iran, this whole conversation has been the about the state of it in the West, very clearly.
I have no idea how it's viewed in Sudan, or wherever the fuck.
Do you have any actual research done that shows that this is a recognised thing that happens in the west instead of some people being forced to pretend to be trans to escape legal persecution? As in it being a legitimate psychological issue, that's been proven to impact people?
You're being so retarded I honestly think you're just false flagging.
Especially when you say how terrible gay people are for drug use (with no source), but then use musicians as something to aspire to be, as if that's a group known for abstaining from substances.
We have more than one anon here who shared a similar experience that also happened in the West, and others agreed that said way of thinking makes sense to certain types of religious people. I understand that anedoctal evidence isn't the same as a research/study, but I offered you a good source of material to understand what's behind the logic of this type of people. If I couldn't find anything else, what do you want from me? Do you want me to shit something for you? You've been all over the thread saying that "the bible doesn't say homosexuality is a sin, being trans is a lot worse than being gay, I don't get it, no one would choose that boo hoo".
If after all this time you're still insisting on the same drama, you probably don't want to hear the other side.
Even though the source is about Iran, it explains the logic behind the whole "being trans isn't as bad as being gay" deal, which was already explained by multiple anons in this thread: those people see homosexuality as a choice, yet transgenders allegedly have brains of the opposite sex, so it's not their "fault" for having same sex attraction. Therefore, they shouldn't be mistreated, etc.
If you want a different resource so badly, go find it yourself. I don't think being trans is easier than being gay per say, but I know a person who did.
And I know that some individuals out there do think this way. Hopefully someday you will find someone who does, so you can stop being such a butthurt cunt.
Enjoy your discussion with the other anon who calls gays anal fetishists >>173533
>>173554>I argued with feelings rather than facts>Look at this anon, he uses terms I don't agree with>That makes me right!
Fuck off you stupid cunt and take all your faggot / tranny friends back to the gutter with you. Your kin are neither people nor do they deserve respect. They are failed retarded men who decided that chopping off their dicks would result in an easier life because tumblr told them so. That's the intellectual extent of these people and I sincerely hope you are all burned like witches in the street with your families.
Well sorry then, but fags aren't people either.
Death to them all.
All these shallow assumptions because somebody doesn't like the fetish that literally defines the life and personality of faggots.
File: 1482761258908.png (1.21 MB, 1004x792, Typical tranny faggot.png)
>I'm a woman I swear!
>Be a tranny faggot isn't a fetish at all!(b8)
Jesus Christ, why are you so mad? Chill, it's just an online discussion, no need to take it so to heart.
The source you gave doesn't support what you said, all it talks about is people being forced into transitioning to avoid being fucking murdered, not that they're convincing themselves that they're trans because being gay is just too weird or something.
You can't make a claim and then get upset when someone asks for you to provide more citations than "yeah I knew a person who it happened to once", because that's completely unreliable, I could use it to support any ridiculous claim I chose to make.
If that was a common thing that happened, don't you think it would have shown up clinically, and have had studies done it to determine how regular it was and if treatments should be adjusted to handle it? It's not like trans people are some new phenomenon, they've been around for ages.
Seriously though, silly to call me butthurt just because I disagreed with you and asked you for some proof of your claim, especially when you got so upset in your reply.
As for the tard that's clearly just baiting at this point, I really hope no-one bites it, just report him.
File: 1482761450589.png (1.4 MB, 1029x1369, Imagine waking up to this fagg…)
>I was born like this, I am actually a woman in a man's body you see.
I confess I thought it was funny too but it definitely doesn't belong in this thread, it's just derailing with stupid shit.
Maybe create a new thread in /sty/ to talk about trannies if you want.
I mean, what you're saying is the definition of a slipper slope fallacy, but alright.
And I guarantee that if helping a person fulfill whatever their delusion told them as long as it didn't hurt anyone else was an effective treatment for psychotic illnesses, it would be used as a last line treatment, same as this is.
I mean shit, we still use lobotomies in extreme long term cases, and ECT isn't uncommon at all, despite it's huge list of risks.
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Slippery slope? The last 60 years have been nothing but a verification of the so called "slippery slope fallacy". If there's something unorthodox or even depraved, liberals will seek to normalize it. As sure as night follows day, libtards will seek to destroy established norms and normalize that which a society considers abhorrent.
I hate feminism. But the reality is radfems are spot on about you - you seek to usurp the female experience, to render their "group" meaningless (similar to how western nationalities have been rendered meaningless by permissive naturalization policies) by turning the identity of female not into anything biological but into a "if I say I am, then I am" level of delusion.
Anyway, on the subject of trannies, their suicide rate doesn't decline post-surgery - it actually increases. And there are still principled people in the medical world who will NOT help people "transition" for this reason. Read the interview with one of the head surgeons at John Hopkins for his experiences with transition surgery and how it didn't help these sad, broken individuals one iota.
>We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into "sex-reassignment surgery"—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as "satisfied" by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a "satisfied" but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.>[…] It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.
>>174338>The last 60 years have been nothing but a verification of the so called "slippery slope fallacy".
How so? For women, life has improved considerably.
>If there's something unorthodox or even depraved, liberals will seek to normalize it.
Like what, divorce and homosexuality?
I like trannies about as much as the average lolcow poster and I still think you're retarded. Do us a favor and stay on /pol/.
>>174344>For women, life has improved considerably.
And yet they're objectively less happy than they were half a century ago.
>divorce and homosexuality?
Those are two aspects but it's not limited to those. Gay marriage, transsexualism, interracial marriage, single motherhood, unorthodox family structures of various kind. Basically anything that damages society and civilization.
>>174351>And yet they're objectively less happy than they were half a century ago.
Between the current "unhappiness" and stockholm syndrome I pick the former.
>Gay marriage>interracial marriage>single motherhood>unorthodox family structures of various kind. >Basically anything that damages society and civilization.
No need for my response here. This speaks for itself lol.
By the way, I'm willing to bet your net contribution to society is in the negatives.
>>174338>Slippery slope? The last 60 years have been nothing but a verification of the so called "slippery slope fallacy".
You mean by drastically improving mental health care and our attitude towards sufferers of it? Yeah man, fuck those damn liberals.
I'm not going to argue about politics apart from that.
>Anyway, on the subject of trannies, their suicide rate doesn't decline post-surgery - it actually increases.
Completely false, and sources have been provided already that demonstrate this. It's still increased in regards to the general population post surgery, not increased compared to those who don't have surgery. Schizophrenia and Bipolar patient suicide risks also are increased compared to the general population even after successfully treated, do you think we should stop giving out medications too?
One hospital saying they won't do the surgery doesn't mean that it's right, I could find you hundreds of medical centers that do still perform the surgery, because they do believe it helps.
One hospital is not a bigger authority than the APA and AMA.
Also, quotes without links to where the quotes actually came from are completely useless, especially from someone who's clearly so heavily biased.>>174351>And yet they're objectively less happy than they were half a century ago.
You can't objectively measure happiness you tard, happiness is completely subjective.
And I get the feeling you're going by increased rate of depression, which is just completely ridiculous if you are, and I really hope I don't need to explain why.
You're very silly, and people like you just make the argument against performing SRS (which is absolutely a valid one if evidence can be provided, which I've yet to actually see any of that wasn't massively, massively misinterpreted such as the Swedish study has been)look worse, the same as insane Tumblr sorts make the argument for it (claiming that it's not a mental illness at all, that there's 19 different genders you can be, all that shit, misinterpreting studies equally as badly) look much weaker.
Too bad. Liberals will succeed in pushing their agenda since that's what the elite wants. If you think otherwise you're retarded.
I don't sympathize with any one of you. Fight like the animals you are pigs.
File: 1483104241186.png (1.92 MB, 1804x1824, 1468574610577.png)
Higher rates of HIV than gay men.
Engaged in prostitutiom and porn at ten times the rate of the normal population.
Link to JH quote:http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2014/06/why-the-first-hospital-to-do-sex-reassignment-surgeries-no-longer-does-them.html
>A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.
There are no comparable longitudinal studies to this one. Fact is that whatever benefits transition provides mentally is a short time high. After ten years their mental health deteriorates even further.
>especially from someone who's clearly so heavily biased.
How are left liberal social "scientists" also not biased? >>174359>Stockholm syndrome
Yes. Every woman who claimed she was happy just imagined it. Only millenials are capable of introspection and self examination. Because millenials are a very mentally healthy cohort. Especially millenials who fantasise about moving to Japan to marry their husbando and are in a state of perpetually delayed adolescence well into their 20s KEK.
You keep citing the Swedish study, but I really doubt you've read it.
Just for you though, here's an interview with the head researcher>http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm
And here's another article talking about it
Here's an article (I get the actual site it's from isn't great, but every claim has reference to a study it's drawn from in this particular article) that might help you out too>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-about-transition-regrets_b_6160626.html
I really recommend you read both of these, instead of just relying on second hand quotes about it.
>How are left liberal social "scientists" also not biased?
Come on, you're just going to portray any scientist who says this as being liberal and obviously biased. This research is done by doctors by the way, not sociologists, and generally speaking, medical studies are held to a pretty good standard, at worst you get a low population which makes the results not super reliable, but it becomes increasingly hard to say what a low population is when talking about medical studies, because a lot of illnesses just don't have a very high population of people that have it and are willing to work with researchers.
I had the impression that Spaniards were relatively unconcerned with being "politically correct"
Next thing you're going to tell me is that it's happening in Russia or Belarus or Greece or something
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In some social "sciences", leftists outnumber rightist by fifty to one. And most of those rightists are just Democrats in name only who happen to dislike income tax.
If you don't think that level of ideological conformity creates an atmosphere where anything sympathetic to the paradigm can be passed off as "research", you really need to read the Diederik Stapel case.
As for the HuffGlue article. It doesn't disprove anything because over comparable longitudinal studies DO NOT EXIST. When you say transitioning deals effectively with their mental health, you're referring to "studies" that interview these people, at most, a couple of years after transitioning.
That's precisely why the Swedish study is so enlightening. >>174359
Those are all objectively bad things. Deal with it.
I remember at least one anon here who admitted he was a cock loving tranny.
I'd be interested to hear his side of the story too and explain how he found out he was a girl.
Well its not likely that i'm going to waste my time trying to educate you anti-science terfs if you insult me even before I begin.
The majority of people in the western world at least tolerate me I honestly couldn't care what a bunch of anti-tranny schizos on some backwater imageboard think in private.
Dude, then fuck off. No one cares, it's not like you're any better>someone gets your gender pronouns wrong>calls them anti-tranny schizo's in a backwater imageboard
The civility isn't from your side that's for sure.
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can someone explain this mindset to me?
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Science determines you're a mentally ill man and so do we.
To me it sounds like they are trying to be as tumblrgender as possible. So she is agender but doesn't want to dress feminine. Yet if she were born biologically male it would be a different story?
It sounds to me like this is a girl who doesn't particularly care for frilly clothes and makeup. Yet still feels like a girl. Because she is one. Just because she doesn't want to wear a bubblegum pink party dress everywhere doesn't mean she isn't feminine. I love how these gender norms everyone wants to break free from just exist to put you back into a different neat little compartment you end up feeling stuck in. You're not breaking anything at all. You're just boxing yourself in even more under the illusion of gender freedom.
What the hell are nonbinary clothes? Like androgynous clothes? People that get annoyed by being misgendered often act like it's the person's fault. But to be honest I feel like men and women just feel different being around. Like something you can't see. A scent or an aura? If that sounds ridiculous maybe that's just me and I am a weird person. But it's more than just wearing a dress or pants and liking feminine or masculine things. These tumblr transgenders act as if changing your gender is like like flipping an imaginary switch on a whim. And suddenly everyone is supposed to be able to see that you flipped that switch from female to agendered demiromatic greyasexual or something.
We're not talking about social sciences you tard, we're talking about psychiatry.
And nice job ignoring the interview with the head researcher of the Swedish study who outright says that your interpretation is wrong, and that it's insulting to her work that people are twisting it the way they are.
The article cites at least one, ranging up to 5 studies for each of its claims by the way, you can't just dismiss it by lying about the contents of another study.
That being said, you're very clearly a robot based on your shitty "arguing with holes" picture, so I'm not sure why you haven't been banned.
Since transanon in the thread didn't answer the question, I decided to look for answers and found a few personal stories:When did you know you were transgender?
It all started just at my 23 years old when I started researching more porn on the Internet (which I already did since many years before that) and discovered I liked men and was bisexual, and then from that around the next year I discovered I felt more comfortable as a woman, imagining myself as a woman than as a man (specially imagining myself as a woman sexually for a man, as I discovered I am quite passive), and from that I put quickly on my mind that I wished to transition no matter what way, and so I started transitioning secretly and dangerously before coming out to my parents and asking for help to transition properly - which I am fortunately doing now. But no, my transgenderism is something I never felt as a kid and as a teen, I was already past teenagerhood when it all started.
Not really, but there were some common experiences with clothes, nail polish and cross dreams, up until age 28. I was on a plane flight to Toronto to go watch NHL hockey :) and we hit some sudden turbulence; it felt like we dropped 500–1,000 feet in about a second. The only thought that went through my mind,(forgive the cliche) like a bolt of lightening was, “I am a woman!” We hit another similar type of turbulence and I thought to myself, if we go down I think I might have to tell everyone on the plane. A bit of a drama queen (I know) but I never had that thought before. When the plane leveled off I was so glad I didn’t say anything (my cousin was there) and quickly buried that experience in my subconscious. Fast forward 12 years later, in front of a mirror for the first time in clothes, make-up, wig and completely amazed. I felt a feeling of euphoria in my head, a happiness I had never felt. I imagine a dopamine release that was 40 years in waiting.
I really didn’t see any difference between them, at least until kindergarten, when it was obvious that boys weren’t allowed to play with dolls, but, strangely enough, there were plenty of girls more than willing to play with trains and cars. At some point, however, true segregation started (I would say around grammar school) — boys had to play soccer on the greens, girls would enjoy their own pretend/conversation games on other areas of the playground. I found this unfair, because I never liked soccer or the other stupid games of boys. Also, girls didn’t want me around (because I wasn’t ‘one of them’), while boys would just mock me for being weak and a ‘sissy’, although they didn’t really ‘bully’ me in the sense it’s employed today. It was just much later, perhaps with 9 or 10, when girls started accepting that they could talk to some boys, and mixed games were ‘allowed’ again. I was thrilled when we started to have mixed classes of sports together (at that time, the classes were too small for separate boy/girl classes), although I was a bit confused why girls were allowed to dress in exquisite leotards, while ‘we boys’ were pretty much limited to white T-shirts (often with the school logo) and white shorts.
Yes as in from my earliest memories I had that off feeling about myself, and the things I had like. I remember how much I envied the shape of girls bodies from all the little things down to the texture of skin. I remember living in a caravan park when I was in like grade 1 about half an hour outside of town and going into the showers with my mothers razor and shaving my leg and arm hair because I hated body hair (I still do!).
I remember things like feeling discomfort whenever I had to go shopping for clothes, and nothing interested me much and I hated the way everything felt, but whenever my sister took me shopping for my opinion, I had interests in all kinds of clothes and so many opinions to give. Back in about Grade 4 or 5, our school decided to switch up the annual superhero dress day and change it to a gender swap day. My sister dressed me up in her clothes, stuffed a bra for me, put me in small heels and off I went to school happily, not even worried in the slightest that I, a little boy was wearing girls clothes to school. I didn’t even question anything about it. I’m so damn proud I have a good memory for my childhood!
At some point, however, true segregation started (I would say around grammar school) — boys had to play soccer on the greens, girls would enjoy their own pretend/conversation games on other areas of the playground. I found this unfair, because I never liked soccer or the other stupid games of boys. Also, girls didn’t want me around (because I wasn’t ‘one of them’), while boys would just mock me for being weak and a ‘sissy’, although they didn’t really ‘bully’ me in the sense it’s employed today. It was just much later, perhaps with 9 or 10, when girls started accepting that they could talk to some boys, and mixed games were ‘allowed’ again. I was thrilled when we started to have mixed classes of sports together (at that time, the classes were too small for separate boy/girl classes), although I was a bit confused why girls were allowed to dress in exquisite leotards, while ‘we boys’ were pretty much limited to white T-shirts (often with the school logo) and white shorts.
So I would honestly say that half of my life I didn’t even know what transgender means, therefore, I couldn’t apply the word to what I was (or what I am). I was just ‘confused’ and trying to fit in. Then, much, much later in my adult life, I learned what it means, and things started to make a little more sense. Nevertheless, the decades of forcing myself to accept a male gender role have left deep scars in my psyche. Today, I still cannot say that ‘I am a trans woman and have always been one’. The best I can say is that I do not really identify with the male gender role, and never did; I just did my best to fit in and utterly failed. Does that make me ‘female’? Not really — gender doesn’t work like that, it’s not binary. I still prefer female gender roles and attire, though, and I engage in those as much as I possibly can. But going full time as a woman, well… our society does not have jobs for trans women (trans men have no problems, because they pass so well), and that means being very careful about one’s choices. Leaving family, friends, a job, a city, etc. all behind to start a new life is a huge barrier to transition. So, the best I can do is to accept that I’m somewhere in the transgender spectrum, deal with it as best as I can, enjoy myself as much as possible while presenting myself as a woman, and trying not to worry overmuch when I’m forced to present myself as a man in order to earn a living. After all, we spend most of our lives doing things we hate, in order to survive — I just need to get used to it. Or, rather, after so many decades, I’m pretty much used to it. Not happy, nor even content, but merely resigned.
Do I feel transgendered? Not really. I’m just aware that cisgender males do not ‘feel’ the same way as I do. And I was pretty much conscious of that since my earliest days. I had no words to express that ‘difference’, but I was always sure that I felt ‘differently’ what ‘gender’ meant to me, and that also meant I have been ‘gender confused’ since then — and I have to admit that I still am. So, if we define ‘transgender’ as ‘someone who questions the gender (role) assigned at birth’, then, yes, I have always been ‘transgender’ in that sense. But I had no word, no definition for what I ‘felt’.
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So disappointed in you girls for allowing these freaks to usurp your identity and for playing along with their sick illnesses out of some… Misplaced maternal instinct.
Your pals over at /pol/
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Her editorializing is meaningless. It's the same as the minnesota transracial adoption study. If a result doesn't highlight something the original authors intended then they do a double take and claim the results are inconclusive.
Fortunately what's important for us is the data itself, which she does not have sole ownership or sole right to interpret over.
Yeah, the researcher, so the person who's most obviously going to know what her data shows saying that the conclusions drawn are completely false and relying on false pretences is totally more important than some /r9k/ moron coming in and outright lying about what the data shows, isn't it?
Nice job showing that you've never read the study and have no interest in what it actually showed though, you're clearly just going to keep ignoring whatever people say and whatever sources they provide to shitpost more, so I really don't see the point of talking about this.
I hope a mod cleans up this thread soon, because this is terrible.
I pretty much was always into what would be considered traditionally girl stuff as a kid, playing with dolls, playing vet, Disney, dressing up etc. Never had any interest in playing with boys or football or anything like that.
Although I didn't realise anything was really wrong or abnormal with that until I started puberty. I also became disgusted by the changes to my body. I just felt so wrong and I was disgusted by my own physical appearance.
Also I got bullied pretty hard for sounding and acting in ways considered feminine.
And at home my dad was also threatening me with violence for being a faggot and going against Jesus or whatever.
So to cope, I repressed. Tried to forget all about who I was, tried to stop feeling jealous of how girls looked and acted, about them bring able to have bfs. I just hung around quietly at the edge of the nerd clique and became really insecure, anxious, unable to speak to people hardly.
Then when I reached about 16 I discovered what being trans was and it instantly clicked with how I had felt, how I was disgusted by myself, why I had prayed to all sorts of gods and Santa as a kid to wake up as a girl, every day, for years.
Still I couldn't see a safe way to come out so I continued repressing, which led to self harm and eventually a suicide attempt at the age of 19.
That's when I realised I had to stop hiding. I told my GP I was trans, I went to therapy, I started self medding and finally became happy and open with people.
I'm 20 now and everything is great. I don't try to act feminine I just act like myself which happens to be what people consider traditionally feminine. I don't have a definition of what it means to be female, I'm not some sociologist or psychologist. I just know what feels right to me, and that being male felt so wrong.
Also I hate older transitioners, "transbians", fetishists, and tumblrfucks as much as anyone else. They're all creepy and mentally ill.
But I also get pissed off with this place because its crawling with radfem terfs (who deny they are terfs or claim that term is insulting), who just write me off as a mentally ill subhuman, and then try their best to bait trannies and use the wrong pronouns which is just a shitty thing to do.
Anyway I dunno if that helps you at all but that's why I have to say.
Again: Data exists independent of the editorializing of the author.
The dataset is a value-neutral, empirical thing - if proper rigor has been applied anyway.
The editorializing of the author is something else entirely. You are essentially saying that nobody can ever go back and re-examine old datasets in a way that doesn't tally with the original researcher's opinion on the data.
If you'd read the damn thread then you'd realize that everyone but a handful of posters DO see trannies as stealing our identity.
And why the fuck do you think that anyone cares that you browse /pol/? You think we're all gonna start scampering to get neonazi asspats from you for acknowledging biological reality?
Dick or gtfo
Tbh i think one or at least two of said handful are trannies: >>174640
and another trannie who was bragging about posting in the makeup thread and getting away with it because no one could tell he was not a woman.
Ummm, sure. It's a mostly female anonymous imageboard, what do you expect? Do you think that's passing lol?
Maybe they are the same person though.
Deleted my previous comment to fix a bad typo.
And you are misinterpreting the data, which she explained how.
it's not like she threw a tantrum and went "No don't say that I don't like that", she explained how it's wrong and a huge misinterpretation of her data to draw that conclusion from it.
But you very clearly haven't read the study, just heard people claim it supports you, and aren't interested in actually finding out what it says, or what that data means.
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Typical born again female
Jfc spoiler that shit, anon>>174752
Briana needs two reality checks: one for thinking he's a girl and second for pretending to be a young one, kek. Oh those nasolabial folds!!
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This is what a woman looks like you disgusting bigot.
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transanon here again
just curious as to whether any of you here actually believe being trans is a choice, or isn't biological, and what your reasoning is for that.
And if you accept it is biological and not a choice, why you think it's okay to hate trannies just for being born trans?
Here's some evidence for you:
>The central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) is sexually dimorphic. On average, the BSTc is twice as large in men as in women and contains twice the number of somatostatin neurons.
>A sample of six male-to-female transsexuals taking estrogen were found to have female-typical number of cells in the BSTc, whereas a female-to-male transsexual taking testosterone was found to have a male-typical number.
>The authors (W. Chung, G. De Vries, Dick Swaab) also examined subjects with hormone-related disorders and found no pattern between those disorders and the BSTc while the single untreated male-to-female transsexual had a female-typical number of cells.
>They concluded that the BSTc provides evidence for a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder and proposed that such was determined before birth.
I don't understand why you're trying to have a discussion about this here. This isn't a serious debate forum, this is a gossip forum. This isn't a thread about the biological side of trans issues, this is trans-flavoured bitch thread. You aren't going to get the results you want, why are you wasting your time?
The thread isn't a hivemind. Some people here hate you, some people here are sympathetic, others don't even have an opinion on "genuine" trans issues and some will even just be trolling you. I personally don't care about a persons gender or genitals as long as they aren't trying to force them onto anyone or screaming about them in public. Coincidentally, that's what I come here to read.
Can we go back to stories about the old freaky guys who don't act like girls at all but demand lesbians date them and fake yaoi boys please?
Human behavior is part genes, part environment in every case.
Are you claiming that sexuality is one aberration here, where it is determined 100% by genes?
Why not employ the same consistency for other, less PC aspects of human behavior, like intelligence and aggression (likelihood to commit crime) too?
Those also have strong genetic components, yet you'd immediately violate your own principle if they were brought up and claim those
traits are 100% the result of environmental upbringing.
Sorry, forgot to link >>175238
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I find it hilarious when I read his fans licking his fake clit in the comment section when a random person lost there asks if he's trans. I could tell he wasn't the very first time I saw a thumbnail.
Yes, he looks pretty decent and WAY better than 95% of the rest because he is filthy rich and has enough money to get any surgery he wants, but as soon as he opens his mouth you can tell he's a tranny.
Besides that, yes, he is a major clickbaiter but overall he doesn't seem too bad (I'm not subbed to him so no idea if I'm wrong or not)
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Ok we need a pogrom
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what do you honestly think of 4chan's /lgbt/ trannies based from this?
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It's funny because Eliza and marky are both much more beautiful than the "girls" listed.
Eliza is actually a genuinely attractive girl. As much as I hate her.
it's because they seem attainable
they know they would never be able to get with an actual attractive woman so they go after 4/10s and trannies
Shes ok. I don't think she'd turn any heads though>>176142
I just hate how they complain about white knighting but turn around and do the same.
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are you for real? she looks straight up terrible in every single photo with her ugly ass manjaw and greasy skin/emo hair. she brags about not using photoshop but even she knows shes ugly as sin thats why she always covers her face. her insecurity and need for validation from neckbeards is what makes her even more unappealing. even the horny retards on fa shit on her appearance thats how awful she looks
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The fact that were in an era where its accepted in some circles that its transphobic to not be attracted to a transperson due to your own sexuality makes me enraged.
How selfish and insecure can you be that youre trying to straight up call someone a bigot for not wanting to fuck you.
how about instead of focusing on who wants to fuck you, spend that time focusing on transitioning and doing things that are actually productive to you as a trans* individual.
I honestly think half the hate speech on social media is written by a trans person or troll at this point… cause tbh no1currs about what you do people are busy minding their own lane.
>>176197>>I honestly think half the hate speech on social media is written by a trans person or troll at this point
That's what i think too. Finding these grotesque fakebois and trannies ugly and sexually unattractive is considered a sin now, lul. It has to be an angry tranny behind all of this.
Imo only a sick bi/gay dude and a really needy girl would want to fuck these people.>>176212
Same. In fact I only started disliking them after that.
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I wanna gut this whore like a fish, I hate how her fat ass thinks she can speak for us black women.
Also, I always laugh how she pretends to be proud of her race but feels the need to make herself appear lighter and always wears glasses to make her nose appear smaller.
Scientific evidence I saw suggested that MtF brains are on average closer to women's brains than the average cis male brain is, but are also closer to cis male brains than they are to women's brains.
I take it with a grain of salt, however, neuroscience is a young and poorly understood discipline.
The argument that people have an innate need to wear lipstick and dresses based on the shape of their brains is exactly the sort of backward thinking that makes trans activism a Bad Thing.
Arguments could be made from a similar misinterpretation of facts that women should lose the right to vote, for instance.
Fight me anon
mtfs have a female gender identity because their brains are close to cis women's brains than cis male brains
and ftms have a male gender identity because their brains are more like a cis males than a cis females.
but i'm not suggesting that mtfs are born with a desire to play with dolls and makeup, or ftms are born wanting to fight and play football
gender identity is different from gender presentation and socially expected gender roles
I don't want to argue about brain shapes because it's a red herring
But I do want to say 'gender identity' doesn't mean anything, and even if it does it's entirely on you (and not on others to for instance use the correct pronouns).
I have no problem with people defying their prescribed gender presentation/roles, what I have a problem with is the idea that it makes them a member of the opposite sex.
You can't know how the opposite gender feels inside or how they really think, so you can't have a female identity. in the first place how would you even know if you feel like a girl if you have never experienced being one? Because you like girly things? That is it?
This is a disgusting mental illness.
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As far as I can tell first of all they realize they're failures as men, and then they go on to conclude that makes them women. Pic related
My point still stands regardless. Thanks for the article.>>176521
seriously how can you not feel attraction to men and you only slightly deviate from the male norm means you're a woman? wtf???
I once joined grindr to see what was there, one of the things was a FtM tranny ("a man with a pussy") wanting hookups with gay guys.
I've heard that they see sex with gay men as validating their male identities. Still makes no sense though.
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Ftms are easier to ignore. While (most) ftms look like dudes or can be mistaken for butch lesbians, mtfs always look like a caricature of a woman.
c-could this be considered gender appropiation
It seems like that ftm porn star Buck Angel makes a good living from doing gay porn so I'm sure there are people into that sort of thing.
>I wonder if any purely gay guys would fuck one of those
I think if a guy was a top and the tranny passed, it could work out.
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>>176589>mtfs always look like a caricature of a woman
oh please stop perpetuating this myth
does this not look like a woman to you?
also you're fucked in the head if your only willing to accept ftms because they look hot to you and if you only hate mtfs because they can't pass as easily
They perpetuate that shit themselves with their affinity for bolted on tits, caked on makeup, barely there outfits, extravagant weaves and padded hips.
This is a poor example to choose because the dude is a model and has to remain a blank canvas. Still has the facial structure of a dude though.
And you should accept that it's like uncanny valley when some people see trannies. There is just something off about them that one can sometimes, and sometimes not exactly, tease out.
I show my bf random pics and he can ALWAYS spot the tranny.
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bosnian construction worker feet
lmao way to pick a fucking MODEL to try and prove your point, who still looks like a dude btw
The average mtf looks like a middle age man who thinks dressing like a thrift store bag lady with the latest Jeffree star liquid lip in the loudest gaudiest color smeared all over their face is going to make them look hip and happening and just like all those instathots (who don't even wear that makeup irl).
The rare mtf who passes is the one who actually bothers to not be a fat dumpy idiot expecting me to look at their 5 o'clock shadow hanging out and pretend that I see a woman, not a man. That's all we're doing with trannies in society, is playing pretend to not hurt their mentally ill fee fees.
i admit andrej pejic looks good, but he's literally a fucking model lol
normal trannies look like this: reddit.com/r/transpassing
even in their blurry angled webcam selfies it's easy to tell that they're men
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So, as a mtf tranny who has been claiming they should've been born a girl ever since childhood, and has hated the idea of being male and becoming a man since childhood; what do you recommend I do?
What's your opinion??
Do you think it's right that I should get to keep taking female hormones and get surgeries to try and become happy with myself and my place in the world, even if trans is a mental illness?
Should I just be forced to admit i'm a mentally ill freak and kill myself for being born a degenerate?
Is there another option you can see?
Even if you think trannies are gross, we are still humans.
You should express yourself the way that makes you comfortable, wear women's clothes if you prefer them, use feminine mannerisms if they're more natural to you, date men if you prefer. But don't think this is the stuff that makes a woman. You can be a pretty, feminine boy, and even make yourself attractive to men who think of themselves as heterosexual, but you'll still be male (and there is nothing wrong with that). Doesn't mean you can't like what girls are supposed to like, or do what girls are supposed to do.
I think hormones and surgery are similar to steroids and body mods, ways to modify your appearance that can have side effects, that's your call because it's your body. Just don't expect me to believe you're female because of it.
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The reason we aren't shitting on FtMs is because they mostly keep quiet and don't act like total spastics unless they're fakebois. And even then you don't see them sperging out to the max as much as MtFs. Case in point, google Wetflame.
>>176669>>176663>just be a feminine / crossdressing guy lol
That isn't how it works because I am not a guy.
I'd rather die this second but be remembered as a woman than try to repress myself and live a as a guy.
You cis people just stroll through life on easy mode. You don't understand what it feels like to be this way at all and you never will.
Call me a insane man all you want it isn't the truth.
You aren't a woman. Sorry. No one is going to remember you as a woman even if you drop dead right now or kill yourself in the most spectacular manner just to prove your desperate tranny point.
You are severely mentally ill, and I empathize with that. But no matter how many hormones you inject yourself with, whether you chop your dick off and get a gaping, unhealing wound that you pretend is a vagina, whether you shave your jaw and manbrow down, learn to dress and act like a woman - you won't be a woman. There is more to being a woman than acting, looking, and "feeling" like a woman. This is why trans people are perpetually miserable (that, and the fact that society is guilted in to pretending that we believe these people are truly the gender they opt to be when we don't. no one does).
Our mental healthcare system is failing trans people. We need to care for them in a way that does not involve physically mutilating them. We do not encourage anorexic people to lose weight, why encourage a gender dysphoric person to play the opposite sex?
So how do you know you're a woman? Because you're mentally ill that you think you're another person and you don't like traditionally masculine things?
Do you realize how sexist that is? kek
Btw, since when do we allow trannies on here?
Look at this degenerate using anime screencaps and talking like a r9ker. You definitely aren't a woman, you're a faggot ass male with a skewed and fetishitic vision of women
Even the trannies don't even talk like woman do. It's amazing.
But you are a guy. What on earth does other people remembering you as one have to do with that? You'll go through life as a guy whether you 'repress' yourself or not. All that you can choose is what kind of guy to be.
It seems you're equating how you feel and how other people see you with what you are. What you are doesn't change with other people's opinions of what you are - because it isn't opinion, it's fact.
Soo funny. You're never gonna be one of us.
Amusing to watch you thrash around trying to convince yourself you are though. I have no sympathy for you. You have too much time on your hands to obsess over shit like this. Get a job or hobby, stop worrying about your goddamn gender
Do you think it's healthy if we tell an 85 lbs. anorexic that yeah, they are as fat as they think? Your subjective "feelings" are not an objective truth. >You cis people just stroll through life on easy mode. You don't understand what it feels like to be this way at all and you never will.
And you'll never understand what it's like to be an actual female, and you never will. How self-centered and narcissistic you are to assume that being a female in general is easy. Tell that shit to the ones living in medieval Muslim countries and the like.
To be fair anon, this isn't fucking tumblr. Not exactly the place to preach equality. Have you not seen the Harley Hooligans thread? If people shit on brain dead children, what makes you think you'd get spared?
I try to sympathise with transgender people, I really do but so many of those who are very vocal have this egocentric attitude. I AM TRANSGENDERED. I AM A MINOTITY. I AM OPPRESSED!!! ME ME MEEE. By don't get me wrong. This attitude exist in many social justice facets and I hate it all equally.
And also shit like this >>176672
I wish tumblr never made that word popular. stop using the word cisgender. This is 99.7% of people (at least in American), you can't label the entire populace like that. People who do that create a you vs us which makes you look like a pompous ass.
My motto is, you wanna be a women? Be a women. Be the best goddamned woman you can be. BUT you're gonna have to leave your transgender card behind because it's only holding you back. The tallest nail gets hammered down.
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From your Adam's apple, to your DNA, genitalia, hips, hands and feet size, fat percentage, and everything
else in your body is MALE. The way you were raised in society also "made" you even more male. So no, sorry dear. You are not a woman. You never will be one.
First, you can't know how a woman feels
because you've never
been one. There's no way you can compare how we see life/think/feel like us, or anything we've biologically and socially lived. We, however, were born and raised women, bio/social. We don't even need to feel like women, whatever that means – we just are. You, however, are a mentally ill man, either gay or a fetishist who needs help.
Doctors who indulge in your fantasy and want to cut off your dick and inject you dangerous hormones because want your money and use you as a guinea pig, fool.
Also, literally NO ONE but you and your circle jerk sees you abominations as women. People lie to be polite, to avoid drama and because they don't want to hurt your sad tranny feelings… But all we see is a deluded MAN who's trying to fool himself.
Keep posting pictures of trannies who you think pass and got 100 plastic surgeries and 100000 injections. Most, if not ALL, look like what they really are IRL – dudes. Like that model tranny with huge manly feet and hands. Also, just take hormones away from a while and see the man in you come out again.
You can't trick nature, facts and biology son.
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>>176745>People lie to be polite, to avoid drama and because they don't want to hurt your sad tranny feelings
I wish actual females would stop allowing these ill fucks to strong arm them into agreeing that they're "women" who are like, sooo much more attractive females than they are.
At the end of the day, idgaf if someone is trans….I just don't want taxes to fund them, nor do I want stupid identity politics to prevail to allow dumb, sick fucks like Danielle Muscato into women's only spaces, etc.
What women are concerned with and what trannies are concerned with are completely different things so stop trying to force actual women to give a shit about you men.
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Yes. I take it as a fucking meme. Like, this dude can pronounce this shit and dumbass bio "neo-liberal feminists" females accept this moron as an actual female. I know Lauren does it to drive a point, but I haven't looked very far into this dude to see what his shtick is. Obviously it has this guy's (theryn meyer) boxers in a wad….he got so mad because he believes Danielle makes no effort to present as "female."
>>176768>>.I just don't want taxes to fund them, nor do I want stupid identity politics to prevail
Agreed, However I still have beef with the tranny community muddying up the waters of transgenderedness when they try to use the XXX and XYY syndromes and other sex-linked chromosome disorders as evidence for their transgenderedness while providing no evidence of the animal kingdom exhibiting such behavior.
Another pet peeve is how they attach themselves to Gay and lesbian issues, as if a mental illness can be comparable to a sexual orientation.
>>176745>From your Adam's apple, to your DNA, genitalia, hips, hands and feet size, fat percentage, and everything else in your body is MALE.
Firstly that's not true. Trans people have brains which are sexually dimorphic in the way of the gender we identify as, not in the way of the sex we were assigned. My brain is literally physically more female than male.
Ergo I am mentally closer to being a female than a male, even if I'll never truly be physically female, which is painful to accept.
Secondly, just by increasing estrogen levels and lowering testosterone levels slightly, I've developed hips, breasts, and have a female level fat percentage and fat distribution.
Face, Adams apple, voice, hair, genitals can all be altered with surgery to at least appear female.
>The way you were raised in society also "made" you even more male. So no, sorry dear. You are not a woman. You never will be one.
How exactly are men and women raised and socialised so radically differently in your view then?
I've always had mostly female friends and engaged in what would be considered traditionally feminine activities.
What part of cis female socialisation is so secret and special that I cant have possibly been able to experience it?
How was I made into a male if I never really engaged in typical male activities?
>First, you can't know how a woman feels because you've never been one.
Again, not true. Being female isn't some special magic club that people without xx chromosomes will never be able to comprehend.
Plenty of guys are highly feminine and understand women better than they do men, and plenty of women are masculine and understand men better than they do women.
Trans people are the gender they identify as. I'll repeat that post-mortem brain tests of mtfs and ftms, including ones which didn't take hormones, were sexually dimorphic in the same way the gender they identified as rather than in the way of the sex they were assigned.
Also taking hormones noticeably changed my mental state, they way I feel and the way I think.
If my brain is physically female and estrogen is the hormone at work in my body, how can you say I can only feel male?
>There's no way you can compare how we see life/think/feel like us, or anything we've biologically and socially lived. We, however, were born and raised women, bio/social. We don't even need to feel like women, whatever that means – we just are. You, however, are a mentally ill man, either gay or a fetishist who needs help.
When you're trans your gender isn't possible to ignore or not care about because the mismatch between it and your sex causes you dysphoria and mental pain so frequently.
My views a