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File: 1603655944561.gif (527.33 KB, 415x326, tumblr_nv9pduM9ki1qhccldo1_500…)

No. 156622

A thread for anons who do not want kids in any context, whether biological, adopted, or step. Discuss anything relevant to a childfree lifestyle here.

Some topics for discussion to get started:
>miserable parents we know and their nightmareish lives
>the wonderful world of having expendable income
>how much better women without children age

No. 156629

I really like children but the future of the world seems helpless, from any aspect that you see it. I'm still very young and putting my career and financial stability before anything child-related but we know the world isn't getting better anytime soon so I'm pretty sure I'll abstain from having children, why would I want to bring lives to this disaster? Guess I'll fill the void by taking care of pets and loved ones

No. 156632

I don't want kids. The financial aspect and freedom of it are huge pros but honestly the real reason is that I just don't want to have a kid. It's like how most people automatically know they want to have kids, in that same way I know I don't want to have kids. It's more of a feelings-based choice.

No. 156633

>>156632
I wish this could just be the normalized and be the end of it. If you don’t want to have a child there must be a reason! Just not wanting them is not ok and not possible to most people. Even other child free people expect you to have a reason

No. 156637

Even as a small girl I had zero interest in activities involving dolls, nursing, caring for others etc. and I knew I didn't want to have children of my own, but later on I just constantly saw examples of parents being neglectful, or abusive, or just failing at raising children to be independent adults who are able to create healthy relationships with others. So I'm definitely very biased now. I literally don't know any good parents. My good friend said once that basically all his friends have shitty parents. But they still want to have kids of their own because they believe they will be better at parenting. My mother was sure she will be better than her mother, and she was a terrible, abusive parent. My aunt has two adult children (32 and 38) but she still has to support them financially and she's constantly stressed out because of it. Their relationships fail constantly. My cousin has a 7 year old daughter who already has to go to therapy because she's traumatized by the behavior of her father. My other aunt was actually a pretty ok mom I think, just overworked, and yet her son still brings her nothing but problems, he was a gambler, she's been paying off his debts for years and she's fucking 65 years old now. She tells me I'm right about not wanting kids and 5 minutes later she tells me how much she loves her son and she has to "carry her burden". Men acting like caring partners and then doing basically nothing after the child is born. Men leaving when the child turns out to be sick. I've seen it all. And then I read all the horror stories on r/BreakingMom or just stories of people who regret having children but are too ashamed to admit it irl. The regret about having children is still a taboo in every culture. I never had any fear to overcome because I never wanted kids in the first place, but all of this made me even less interested. My only fear is that I will never find a partner who will want to stay childfree. I read about men who were ok with it at first and then they left or cheated anyway because they decided they want kids. How can you be 100% sure he won't change his mind?

No. 156638

>>156637
>I read about men who were ok with it at first and then they left or cheated anyway because they decided they want kids. How can you be 100% sure he won't change his mind?
You can't! And you should learn to be fine with that. Look into the concept of "radical acceptance." I have a partner who is currently happy with being childfree. If he changes his mind one day, I will be okay. We could just as easily break up over a hundred different reasons, or (knock on wood) one of us might get into a terrible car accident tomorrow and we'd never be together again anyway. As much as I love my boyfriend, it's not like there are a deficit of men craving companionship if I wanted another partner. And who knows if I'd even care for one at that point; I'm quite happy being alone too. You can only control yourself in life. Worrying about what other people will or won't do is a waste of time.

Of course, take precautions and vet potential partners as best you can. Be upfront on the very first date about your stance on children. If you use apps, mention it in your profile. I got myself medically sterilized so that went a long way towards expressing how serious I was to potential partners, but in any case, have that conversation and see how the guy reacts. Ask about his long-term goals and why he wants to be child-free if he feels the same. Ask if his family is aware of his stance and what they think (sadly/stupidly enough, many people make life-changing decisions based on familial pressure alone). Don't be shy about the topic. Better to get through a potentially awkward conversation early than discover someone is a fencesitter several years into the relationship.

No. 156644

I already spent 20 years taking care of children. My life growing up was loud and chaotic and I was never truly happy until I was in a quiet environment of my own. I never want to give that up.

No. 156651

I'm terrified of popping out a retard child that I will be responsible for taking care of until the day I die. I read stories of parents venting about how they hate their potato child on reddit all the time. They make good horror stories

No. 156660

>>156651
Right? I've read those, "if you're not prepared to care for a special needs child, don't have kids!!!11!" and like…okay, I won't kek.

No. 156669

I was stood talking with someone a few weeks ago and her son who is around 4 was going completely nuts. he was climbing on the roof of their car, licking the car then he jumped down off the car and got in the car and was pressing the horn. she wasn't someone I know (I'd just met) she's a friend of my mum who I was with so I didn't know how to react. she was completely fucking frazzled and even after telling him time and time again to please stand still, he wouldn't. I felt really sorry for her. whenever I think I might like kids someday I think of things like this and I'm brought back to reality. I'm sure he's a great kid but I could not deal with uncontrollable kids like that.

No. 156670

>>156629
this is my train of thought too. this world is a fucking shitshow, I couldn't bring a child into it. the climate breakdown is the biggest reason I'm abstaining. it's not fair for future generations to inherit a dying planet.

if things got drastically better in the next ten years (serious action to combat the climate change issue. scientists confirming that we're achieving the goal of putting a stopper in it. is that even possible at this point?) then I would like a kid but I don't see that happening

No. 156671

>>156669
Take this with a grain of salt but I think that kind of behaviour is (in most cases) the result of poor parenting skills/upbringing. Kids nowadays do shit I would not dream about doing as a kid, but in that same vein my mom says I and other kids did things when I was a kid that would've been completely unacceptable when she was a child. Parents in general have simply become less strict with every generation, at least that's what I believe.

No. 156672

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how many people do you think have kids simply because they want someone to look after them once they're old?

No. 156673

>>156672
This is my only concern about not having kids, what am I gonna do when I'm old and unable to (fully) take care of myself? My grandparents have needed so much help from their 4 children and their families. And when they still lived at their home they had the whole neighbourhood keeping an eye on them, neighbours sending their kids to check on them if they didn't see my grandparents outside for a while etc. They received but also needed so much support, I'm scared what's going to happen when I'm 70 or 80 and childless. (Not that having a kid secures help in old age, but still)

No. 156674

>>156672
I can't believe this is a thing people consider when having kids. This doesn't cross my mind in the slightest when I think about child rearing, and it surprises me that its a factor whenever I'm reminded. And it legitimately is, it's just really weird to think about for me. My partner and I will take care of each other. My friends and I will take care of each other. I think it's great that children want to take care of their parents. I fully intend to when mine are old, I just don't think it's a necessity and it's weird to think about imo.

No. 156675

My rant for today: I loathe the "argument" parents make about remaining childfree being selfish. Be a parent, I could give a fuck, but do not lecture me about how beautiful and selfless the decision is.

Especially if they have biological children and didn't adopt - that is one of the most selfish decisions you could ever make in a world that is already overpopulated while millions of orphaned and abandoned children remain in temporary homes at best, abusive ones at worst. You are literally the opposite of a paragon of virtue by choosing to bring yet another parasite onto this overburdened planet while ignoring so many in need.

I understand why people prefer biological children: ego. They want a mini me to coo over and show off to friends and relatives. Too bad for them so many children grow up to be disappointments like most of humanity, leaving the parents as unfulfilled as they were before.

I will forever remain unconvinced that people who would never consider adoption but want a biological child should be parents. I saw a thread on Reddit the other day "celebrating" the birth of a child after 12 miscarriages. Fucking TWELVE. And of course it had Down syndrome. Went into the thread expecting people to pat her on the back, but thankfully most were asking what she was thinking when she could've adopted after the first, say, three miscarriages. Congrats you birthed a retard, enjoy spending the rest of your life caring for it and probably leeching off government assistance when you could actually be a contributing member of society. Such a saintly choice.

No. 156676

I don't want kids and never have but I am terrified of the idea of being an old, decrepit elderly woman and being completely alone in the world. I already have so few friends and I am the youngest of my siblings by 13 years. The only reason I even fathom the idea of having children is so that I'll have someone to take care of me when I'm old the way I take care of my mom.

No. 156678

>>156672
One of the most ridiculous reasons to breed. The people taking care of your (the general "your") geriatric ass as a parent are generally going to be the same people taking care of those without children: professional caregivers and medical workers. For every supportive family as in >>156673 example there are 20 more where the child sticks their parent in a home and maybe visits during a holiday now and then. The majority of people are not willing nor qualified to provide fulltime care to an elderly parent when they end up requiring that level of assistance. And they shouldn't have to. What if they end up estranged from you? What if they've settled down overseas? What if they just don't want to?

It's beyond selfish to have a child and then expect them to drop everything and stop living their lives to perform the physically and mentally intense labor required to care for someone in the latter stages of their life. This isn't the middle ages where 3 generations of families live together forever. If you have a kid they are free to do as they please once they're adults, which likely doesn't involve wiping down dear old mom or dad's ass when they're too frail to do it anymore.

>>156676
Again, having kids is far from a guarantee of safety and security in your later years. You are generous to be that point of stability for your mother, but even if you "raised them right," there's no way to be sure a child would do the same for you. Take responsibility for yourself. Start saving for retirement so you'll have a stable source of income when you're old and can afford a quality assisted living facility.

No. 156679

As far as I remember I always knew I never wanted children, it was never part of my life goals, even in kindergarten when they ask you to draw yourself as a grown-up (just like marriage kek). I think I have a phobia of pregnancy as well, seeing those bloated bellies on perfectly normal bodies disturbs me so much, and I'm disgusted by all the things that come with childcare (like diapers and cleaning vomit). Don't even get me started on the short and long term effects pregnancy has on women's bodies.

I give zero fuck if people give me shit for it, my parents support my decision and it's the only thing that matters. What kinda annoys me is when people assume I hate children because I want to remain child free, which is not true. I don't mind them, I even find them cute, I just don't want to have them in my life.

Like other anons said, I would also be terrified of giving birth to a child with an incurable disease, especially if it cannot be detected in utero. Like at work the other, a customer came with his son, who yelled loudly at some point (which didn't annoy even me, I was just surprised at how loud he was), and the dad said sorry and explained that he was autistic and had no awareness of his surroundings. I felt so bad for him, not only will it be difficult to take care of him the older he gets, but also he must have gotten shit from other people if he said sorry for just a yell.

No. 156681

>>156678
Nta but personally I'm not concerned about money but about how to manage when I get dementia or when/if the world has evolved beyond my understandin, if that makes sense? My grandparents are simple farmers who know nothing of technology (they don't even have a tv or mobile phone), they can't even withdraw money from their own bankaccounts without my parents' assistance. My mom's in her 50's and very obviously already has trouble keeping up with everything being digitalized too, undoublty I'm going to be like that when I'm old aswell. On top of that they both suffer from dementia (that shit creeps up on you) so they need other people's help, they can't sign themselves up for a caring fascility etc. anymore.

No. 156683

>>156672
Considering that it's the most common response I get from people who can't fathom choosing not to have kids, I would say a very large portion. I honestly wpuldn't be shocked if it was half or more.

No. 156684

>>156681
Honestly you just have to plan in advance, seek out advocacy, lawyers and assistance programs while you're still young enough. More and more people are choosing to be CF these days, there will be increasing demand for services for the elderly and specifically designed for our circumstances.

The irony is that if you have kids just to make sure you're not alone when you're old, they might feel the same and have kids too. Then they're too busy with their own family to look after their parents anyway. Being CF means I'm gonna easily be able to look after my parents as they age.

No. 156694

>>156681
Sorry if this is ot or grotesque but I have hard plans to get euthanized if I go bonkers with age. I’m pretty sure dementia is in my genes too. This is technically a choice that’s available because (rather than in spite of the fact) I won’t have kids.

No. 156697


No. 156800

It was always weird for me that some of my friends growing up wanted to be mothers ever since we were like 10 or so. I never had grand plans, so much that at 20 I had a breakdown because my life plan basically never went past starting college. I was just like 1. survive school 2. get into a college 3. ???????. Family life was absolutely not something I wanted.

And even now that I try to imagine myself in 10 years, I really can't see myself as a mother. And my picture of a "mother" is also pretty negatively colored, there's really no "real" respect in patting women on the back sometimes for doing this sacrifice for humanity's continued existence with some roses, but still laughing at them and their misery.

I can believe that motherhood can be incredibly magical (all the hormones, a special relationship with another person), and I usually avoid "childfree" spaces just because of this misguided smugness, like they're saving the planet, even though they're still spending on useless crap like crazy and make zero ecological decisions, so it's obviously not a viewpont in their life. But I understand the general sentiment, because I also don't want to live the shitty life of a young-middle aged-old mother just because that is what I'm biologically built for, and in this age, I have a choice.

No. 156803

>>156800
>my friends growing up wanted to be mothers ever since we were like 10 or so
They might've just had those experiences where adults see them playing with a toy and claim that they're absolutely destined to be a great mom based on the fact that someone bought them a doll and they carried the doll gently. We imprint alot of mature expectations on little girls when they really have no business thinking about those things so young.

I remember hating both fashion dolls and baby dolls as a kid. But I liked teddy bears and a couple of my aunts would constantly comment about me having babies one day because I carried a bear around and that was 'my instinct to have kids showing' (while I'm a kid myself) I hate that shit. 30's now, childless with plans to remain that way. I still collect some plush and theres no deep meaning or great mothering instinct behind it lol

No. 156826

i have been on the fence for some times but I have noticed many people like their concept of children but not children themselves similar to the white picket fence fantasy. the reality is always so different which is my main reason why I am afraid of having children.

No. 156850

I've noticed that so many people use the internet to vent about their parents shortcomings while also assuming they'll automatically turn out as better parents by just 'doing the opposite' IMO That's not the reality of how good parents are made. You see it on reddit alot, people vent about things that happened with their parents decades ago but also brag that they are great parents themselves (while they fume about their mom online?) I can just imagine them raising another generation of venters. Parents have blindspots, for alot of us the damage happened in those blindspots. Not out of malice or intent.

There isn't enough therapy in the world to make me personally feel fit to parent kids. I suspect that I would unconsciously repeat my parents mistakes whether that's my very last intention or not. My bro is older and also childless and it's like we're ending the cycle by opting out. I wouldn't even call our childhood serious abuse but there were things lacking and I think it's very hard to adapt and somehow parent when your own needs went neglected and it disrupted development long term.

Even in my relationships with men I swore I'd never date a man like my father… I sure did though. My last relationship mimicked my parents one. It's scary how much we unconsciously chase familiarity like that. It's not as simple as "I'll be better than my parents"

No. 156867

I get so pissed off when people associate being nice, considerate, caring and so on with motherhood for women but they’re just stand-alone traits for men. I have literally had people tell me, “Oh but you have so many mothering qualities!” when I’ve expressed I’m not having kids. Bitch where? I’d say the biggest beneficial trait when it comes to being a mother is actually wanting to be one. Just because I’m polite and thoughtful does not mean I’d be parent of the year, and in fact George over there who actually likes playing with kids, teaching people things, doing monotonous tasks and is every bit as friendly as me has far more “mothering” qualities than I ever will.

No. 156878

I just don't want the pain, being pregnant terrifies and disgusts me, and I just hate the responsibility of it. Shit like climate change plays no part in my decision and honestly I find it a stupid reason.

>>156672
My parents are amazing people but they can't take care of their relatives bc we live in a different country. It's never a guarantee, and why would you subject you child to that misery anyway

No. 156881

>>156669

If you have any amount of exposure to young families you'll start to notice the fuck up parents eventually. They condition their kids into neuroticism or pump them full of sugar or don't take care of their basic needs, then become incredulous when things don't go their way. Not like a 4 y/o has a lot of stamina, one or two sessions of cardio-intense play a day and they tucker out. Energetic kids need an outlet, not just discipline and most parents won't give them either. People ought to be shamed for low effort parenting tbh.

No. 156913

I knew I didn't want kids the time my mom took my older sister and me (respectively 9 and 6) to help out at her sunday school church daycare for 3-year-olds. One of the kids latched onto my sister's leg while she was standing. She tried to pull away but they held on laughing at her frustration and calling her names. I asked them to let go and they talked back to me. Well - forgive me - I was 6 and adored my sister and my mom wasn't doing anything to help so I kicked the kid in the face.

No. 156922

>>156622
I live in a neighborhood full of toddlers, teens and schoolkids and they're fucking obnoxious. They scream all the time, destroy other people's property, throw tantrums for no reason, my tween neighbor yells whenever he loses at Fortnite and whenever you tell them to pipe down their mother hens come at you because "he's so little, he doesn't know better~". I don't care, I'm working and it's your job to teach him better.

They're just awful little things, and I feel like parents of today are too lenient with their kids because they don't want to be labelled as abusive.

If I had kids they'd annoy me a lot and I'd resent them for not allowing me to live how I want, and that's not something I'd want for my child. The only reason people think I'd make a good mom is because I know how to take responsibility and just do what needs to be done. I'm the oldest of my family so I had to babysit my little nieces in my late teens for long periods of time, and even though they were overall nice girls and loved me a lot, I still don't want to deal with all the bullshit, can't even imagine how much harder sons would be to raise.

No. 156936

I hate everything about the thought of pregnancy and caring for a young child. Swelling up for nearly a year until I'm a whale, spending hours in labor and possibly ripping my vagina and asshole open, being incontinent or developing autoimmune diseases afterwards (happened to my mom). Then having a child suckling at your tit constantly, cleaning up vomit, shit and piss, enduring shrieking and crying, having to bathe, clothe, feed and do everything for this worm-like creature. Thousands of dollars down the drain. Struggling to find any time for myself. Then even with dedicated attention and care, knowing your child might turn out to be an asshole and resent all the time you spent with them, develop a mental illness, stop communicating with you. All that freedom given up and time wasted when you could've spent it on yourself, for what?

The only thing I think sounds remotely good about being a parent is when the kid becomes an adult, thinking they might turn out relatively functional and have appealing interests. Then I realize that's just a friend and I can get those without having to shove them out of my vag.

And people, often men, still have the audacity to say I'd make a good mom even after going on blistering, hate-filled rants like this. Likely because they know they wouldn't be the ones doing any of the work (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/05/07/once-the-baby-comes-moms-do-more-dads-do-less-around-the-house). Fuck off.

No. 156937

>>156936
Add the risk of postnatal depression to that. In an old job I meet several women with postnatal psychosis too, which I didn't even know existed before that. It's like witnessing a nervous breakdown and they're never quite the same person again.

No. 156945

>>156913
I shouldn't've laughed but i did

No. 156948

>>156945
Same, I think it was based of anon

No. 156955

>>156637
>My good friend said once that basically all his friends have shitty parents. But they still want to have kids of their own because they believe they will be better at parenting. My mother was sure she will be better than her mother, and she was a terrible, abusive parent.

I just finished reading 'The Drama of the Gifted Child' and Alice Miller says that her patients who are insistent on having kids when there is clearly still so much to work on with themselves usually do so for a few reasons:

-They want to have a child to substitute for the unconditional love they did not receive as children
-They want to 'redo' their childhood through their own children (e.g. my parents were abusive, so I won't be) and finally feel 'complete'
-Subconscious compulsion to relive their own trauma

People pretty much never choose to have a child selflessly.

No. 156957

>>156678
>It's beyond selfish to have a child and then expect them to drop everything and stop living their lives to perform the physically and mentally intense labor required to care for someone in the latter stages of their life.

Yeah I'm pretty sure if you have a child, you're committing to pouring your resources into them. Not the other way around.

My boyfriend's mother does this with him and he gets anxiety attacks about how she will probably invite herself to live with him one day with the expectation that he should take care of her. She's already taken from him financially, I had to teach him to draw serious boundaries with her starting now.

This is just straight up sacrificing your body for a couple years to create a blood-source to leech off of for the rest of your life. It really fucks with him psychologically. So basically- don't have kids with the intention that they'll be your caretaker one day.

No. 156963

>>156955
Wow, those reasons point-by-point were the exact shitty explanations my boyfriend gave for wanting kids (he used to be a fencesitter).

* He wanted more love in his life (he has me + plenty of friends and a large extended family… why does he need a biological child's love specifically?)
* His father was abusive and he literally said, "I want to have the opportunity to do better than he did, I think it would give me a sense of fulfillment." Kek to that, because >>156850 is 100% correct. I have seen him repeat the exact same abusive behaviors his father subjected him to. I don't put up with it and draw boundaries, but a kid does not have the presence of mind to know/communicate how their father's behaviors are harmful. He would absolutely make similar mistakes and hasn't even gone to therapy to address his lingering issues.
* Reliving his own trauma, this is again something I've seen him repeat in our relationship and he doesn't even have the self awareness to recognize it.

It really is scary how oblivious people are to their own problems, and his reasons were completely selfish. Not once did he talk about how he wanted to give his time/attention/money/health for the sake of a child, it was all about what he would receive from it. I, the staunchly childfree one, have had more interaction with kids through volunteering and work and yet he was so excited by the concept thanks to his rose-colored glasses. It's no wonder a higher percentage of men want kids than women, they're delusional and don't need to consider the huge amount of repercussions like us.

No. 156967

>>156963
>It's no wonder a higher percentage of men want kids than women, they're delusional and don't need to consider the huge amount of repercussions like us.

Men aren't just delusional, they're CLUELESS. My bf didn't know:

-Babies cry most times you put them down for the first couple years
-Babies randomly throw up all the time
-What the terrible 2's are
-That some children use diapers until they are 3 and beyond

Every time we are around my nieces and nephews, he will think my siblings are just bad parents. I'm like, "No this is actually this is very normal for their development. Kids take until about 5 to even comprehend the link between behavior and consequences."

I think girls are expected early on to look after younger kids while the boys get to go out and play, so it's all just mysterious to them. They rarely have to babysit or anything like that.

Right now he thinks he's "just not ready for it yet." I'm like, mhmm, you're 30. So tell me, when are you going to be ready for screaming, crying and years of sleep deprivation? 35? 40?

inb4 he leaves me in a decade for a clueless 23 year old.

No. 156970

>>156967
I totally relate, my dude kept saying that parenting gets so much easier after the first year or so when kids start to walk. Based on what experience of yours bro? You mean when they're able to remove themselves from the safety of a crib and you have to worry about them running into table edges, falling down stairs and pulling pots of boiling water onto themselves? Yeah, so much easier!

He barely has the patience to deal with our cats most of the time. CATS. The worst things they do is puke up a hairball now and then, play-fight around the house and meow like maniacs when they're hungry. And you want a fucking human child when you can barely handle that? The level of self deception was insane.

I genuinely don't care if he leaves me in a couple years, lmao. It would suck initially, it's been fun and pleasant in a lot of respects but I know I can find happiness on my own now. I pity the woman who would have to not only endure all his current issues but also have a child thrown into the mix. I cannot remotely imagine. If that ends up being what he wants again later on he is totally free to leave and find it without me, because being a parent would make me resentful and miserable and destroy the relationship we have.

No. 156972

>>156967

halflife of a relationship at any given moment isn't even 5 years so its not like thats a big issue

No. 156973

>>156967
There's way too many men financing their way into a 20-year-olds womb after marrying her promising her happiness and an equal relationship, and of course, financial security. Then you get all these young mothers venting about an absentee husband that never spends the night home and never changes a diaper. But everything's fine, as long as you can fool a woman into carrying on your lineage.

No. 156974

>>156973
Oh yes but it's ok because 'men mature slower' and 'women mature more quickly.'

No. 156983

>>156936
>And people, often men, still have the audacity to say I'd make a good mom even after going on blistering, hate-filled rants like this. Likely because they know they wouldn't be the ones doing any of the work

Then, they tell mothers who didn't plan to get pregnant that they "asked for it". This mentality is literally just reinforcing the gender stereotype- fuck your choice, whatever it is, and do the opposite bc society wants you to do what they want instead of what you want.

No. 156989

Anyone here thought about getting, or has gotten sterilized? I'm 24 and I've known forever that I don't want children and never will. I've been considering a tubal ligation for a few years, and am thinking about finally pulling the trigger. There's a good chance it's gonna be difficult to find a doctor to do it but the doctor list on /r/childfree seems pretty helpful. What are y'all's experiences with this like?

No. 156994

>>156989
Me! Tbh anon I was the same and after reading so many horror stories from those subs I was prepared to have to present an entire folder full of studies and research papers in order to get approved for sterilization. In fact, I picked a gynecologist from a list covered by my insurance, asked for sterilization and he (yep, a male doc even) granted approval the same day. Couldn't have been easier. I'm not saying a more difficult situation won't arise, but don't psych yourself out before anything happens. I am older than you (29) and I know a lot of doctors are cautioned against sterilizing younger patients because they don't want people coming after them due to regrets, but there are plenty of younger women who have made it happen as well. If you encounter issues with one doctor, just move on to the next and don't let it defeat you. In the end they're all just providers offering you, a paying customer, a service.

You may want to request a bilateral salpingectomy rather than a tubal ligation. I thought I wanted a tubal at first as well, but a bisalp is more efficient because it entirely removes the fallopian tubes rather than just cauterizing them. There's literally no chance you will ever get pregnant this way. The issue with tubals is not so much that burned tissue can grow back, but improper technique where a doctor might think they've completely sealed off the tubes but in fact some portion gets left open. This increases the risk of ectopic pregnancies where an egg implants in the tube rather than the uterus and can be life threatening. I didn't want to deal with even the smallest danger of that.

Removal of the fallopian tubes also provides a significant decrease in the risk of ovarian cancer (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3671016) and so if you're not going to use them anyway, why not take the opportunity to prevent a deadly disease in the process? The procedure takes maybe 10 minutes longer than a tubal with one extra incision; it was worth it to me.

No. 157003

I'm a nanny and while I love my job it has completely reinforced my decision to not have kids - and the children I work with are extremely smart and well behaved so that's saying something. I work two 12 hour days a week and I can't imagine doing that every single day. Want to sleep in? Sorry, kids are waking up at 6 A.M. and that's that. Alone time? But Mommy, I want to play cars! Quiet? Your kid now has 50 questions about the nature of poop. Maybe you can just sit…Nope, kids need help putting on clothes, getting their homework done, and meals have to be made. I really cannot imagine living with barely any time for myself, my hobbies, my partner, to travel or do spur of the moment activities, for my whole identity to become that of "mom." The parents I work for are doctors and I have no clue how they do the amount of work they do then come home and do even more.

Then of course you've got the financial aspect, the general state of the world, the physical and mental symptoms that come with pregnancy and giving birth, the potential of giving birth to a child with some sort of illness or disorder (I personally have mental health issues I don't want to pass down), oh and the fact that if you have children with a man, even if he's the most feminist dude on Earth, you will guaranteed be doing the majority of the child rearing.

No. 157005

>>156967
I really do not understand how people can know they want children without ever having taken care of a kid. And no, interacting with your relative's children for 30 minutes top at a family get together doesn't count. I feel like before people decide to have kids they need to be the sole caregiver of a child for one full day. From when they wake up to when they go to bed. See all that that entails and know you will be doing that day in and day out for the next several years. But I bet even then there would be people who would be like "Well…it's different when it's your own!!"

No. 157007

>>156994
I've definitely been considering a bisalp as well since it's more effective. It would be just my luck that a tubal ligation wasn't done correctly on me. I'm just not sure if it's fully covered under my insurance or not, guess I'll have to figure that out. I'm glad to hear you had a good experience!

No. 157012

>>157007
Both bisalps and tubals were covered under preventative procedures (if you haven't had a child before) in my case - hoping it's the same for you! Take care anon.

No. 157034

File: 1603876165897.png (227.09 KB, 500x500, coolaid.png)

>>156989
even though I like the idea of just getting rid of my uterus and never having a period again, I'm afraid it'll fuck up my health

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6511081/

No. 157035

File: 1603876199922.png (1.28 MB, 1280x1053, coolaid2.png)


No. 157036

>>157034
Yeah don't do that anon, unless you have a (non-sterilization related) medical reason. That's why the other methods mentioned above are superior. The paths to the ovaries are blocked/gone, but you still have your hormones and regular periods.

Believe me, I relate and would've loved to stop my periods well before menopause… if the side effects weren't so horrible.

No. 157037

>>157034
>>157035
It's pretty obvious that removing organs should be a last case scenario, and only if it's a malfunctioning organ anyway. But iirc tubal ligation doesn't mess with their hormone output, but it can - in some cases - fix itself, which sounds like a bad time.

I was thinking about sterilization, but in my country you're not eligible for it unless you're over 40 or already had 3 kids, and going abroad to get it done costs a whole lot of money that's unrealistic for our third world salaries. If they could get away with it, I'm sure they'd even make abortion illegal, but after seeing what's going on within our friend Poland, I'm sure they're a bit more cautious. So I just chose the oldest preventive method: abstinence. Because apparently that's the only thing they allow for now, until Orban starts assigning us as personal prostitutes for the Nation.

No. 157042

>>157037
>I was thinking about sterilization, but in my country you're not eligible for it unless you're over 40 or already had 3 kids
Same in my country, I was soooo pissed when I researched the option and found out I can't have it. But now that I'm old enough and elligable for the procedure, I'm not going to do it. No reason to mess with a healthy body when the risk of pregnancy is not high anymore. Would still choose to do it if I were young and had the option, the peace of mind and total control for decades to come would make it worth it.

No. 157069

Girls, tell me about times other people (including people you don't fucking know) tried to convince you to have children.

The only time it ever happened to me was when I was working retail at a yuppie grocery. My Baby Boomer coworker steered a rather jovial conversation to child-rearing. When I said something about not wanting them, she said, "Life would be so lonely if people never had children!" I brushed her off and didn't engage any further. Funny thing is her adult daughter (30ish years old) had committed suicide. Gee, wonder why.

She ended up getting fired for forcing her unwarranted political opinions on others.

No. 157073

>>157069
My older sister does it to me.

She's finally settling somewhat into motherhood, but the process has been really depressing to be honest. She had to kill off a lot of dreams once she realized she would have absolutely no time for herself. Which was really difficult for her. She kept saying, "I know this was my choice, though, I know this was my choice."

Yesterday her husband said, "Maybe I can take the kids in a stroller, and we can take a walk together when you go to vote." I saw her get visibly panicked. She said, "NO! Do you know how long I've been looking forward to this?"

I mean sis has been dreaming about doing the most mundane thing- voting- so she can just do something totally by herself for 30 minutes.

In the face of all that she'll tell me, "Oh but you're totally going to have kids- I know I make it look hard but it's SOOOO worth it." I've been insistent that I'm happy for her, but it isn't the life for me. Still she straight up tried giving me baby books the other day. I'm like… do you require me to have children to help fulfill your obvious state of denial?

No. 157084

>>157069
Never, really, because I just simply don't disclose my stance on kids, not even to my parents, because I know it would be a shitshow, and they wouldn't believe me.

I'll mention how I don't like little kids sometimes when it comes up. My mom tried to get me to take over watching a little toddler boy she was looking after in the afternoons, because she found a full-time job. We were arguing for hours, because she didn't believe that I don't like spending hours playing peek-a-boo, wouldn't know what to do in a crisis situation, and kids just generally don't like me. Of course it always ends in "WELL WHAT ABOUT YOUR FUTURE KIDS? WILL YOU NOT PLAY WITH THEM?" and I just gave some evasive answer as always.

People (especially other women) like to say something to the lines of "I feel bad for your future kids" in a joking manner, or just talk about you having kids as if it's a given fact. I feel like it's easier to just stay silent.

No. 157085

>>157069
I've been good at avoiding this. I have a look that screams lesbian so my older gossipy coworkers are probably reluctant to mention babies to me based on that alone. We're in a slightly homophobic country so I guess they don't want to corner me about my private life (ain't even gay, just look it lol) It's my free ticket to never having to discuss babies

Never had pressure from my parents because I lost my mom as a teen and tbh my dad almost seems like he regrets parenthood or realises he wasn't quite up to the job himself… Neither me or my sibling ever want kids and my dad doesn't appear to give a fuck. He's not a kid person and I feel like he only had us because that's what a 'normal mapped out life' looked like to him.

No. 157086

>>157069
>her adult daughter (30ish years old) had committed suicide
Christ. I snorted at this twist, sad it would’ve been too brutal to remind her of that little factoid.

>Life would be so lonely if people never had children!

My ex played the “but you’ll be so lonely” card. We broke up for other reasons but in the process when I reminded him about my stance and said I might just stay alone (because I was exhausted from the relationship drama) he was all, “Oh nooo, that’s so sad, I can’t imagine you being all alone, please tell me you’ll find someone and have a family!” I looked at him like he’d grown three heads. Me being able to feel comfortable alone was a huge development due to a bad case of codependency I’d finally gotten over. It took so much therapy, mental struggle and time to see myself as a whole and complete person as I am. He knew this. I was (and am) super proud of the fact that I’d feel happy simply being in my own company, yet the misogynistic asshole could only conceive of my being fulfilled by finding another partner and breeding.

It was shockingly hilarious in a way, to know he believed I needed someone to be happy yet he himself had put me through such hell. I believe he likely intended to try and diminish my efforts in that moment, but I just shook my head and said I’d be fine on my own terms, thanks for the “concern.” Funny resolution: I did end up with another (child-free) partner now who treats me 100x better while he is still fat, alone (both childless and partnerless) living with family and at 10 years older than me, so all that’s unlikely to change.

No. 157088

>>157069
Had this from a lot of people, but one of the most annoying and weird is when my mom says I should give her some grandkids so she can raise them. “Literally you can just have them then give them to me, teehee!” I know she’s (kind of) joking but I don’t find it funny in the least. One of the major reasons she wants me to have kids is indeed so she can play and interact with them, even though I’ve repeatedly told her how much I hate the thought. Which is when she hits me with the typical, “You may think that now but everything changes when you have that baby in your arms.” Kay mom, then please explain all the regretful and flat out abusive parents that experience this miracle of birth then do everything they can to get rid of their spawn. Pretty big gamble to assume everything changes at that moment when you can’t return the kid or anything if it doesn’t come. Talk like that is why so many people who shouldn’t be parents make stupid decisions. It’s exhausting and I try to avoid the topic with her at all costs.

No. 157090

>>157069
I've never been too bothered, like I mentioned earlier that my parents didn't care and they never shamed me for this. I've had some random people disagreeing with me, especially during my younger years (as in "you'll change your mind when you grow up"), way less now that I'm 27.
I remember in high school a teacher said I was selfish because my non children would not be paying taxes (?????) and recently a co-worker, mother of two, said it was sad that I would never have some. I talked with other co-workers in the same age bracket as mine (late millennials) and none of us, men and women, want any children.
Sometimes I get customers saying things like "you'll see when you'll have kids" and I don't bother correcting them, they don't mean harm when saying it.

No. 157093

File: 1603906771949.jpg (Spoiler Image, 237.56 KB, 1024x682, istockphoto-1148192408-1024x10…)

Damn, today I found out they made 4chan clone for coping roasties. It feels surreal and stinks of reddit. Enjoy your decades of loneliness, cats and wine. Thats about all I wanted to say, bann me now(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 157094

>>157090
>"you'll see when you'll have kids"
Maybe I'm fucked in the head but if any stranger hit me with that line I would claim that I'm unable to have kids. Just to see how they react.

No. 157095

>>157069
Similar experience here. Not to humblebrag but most of this thread isn't relatable to me. Strangers and exes have made more comments about my theoretical children than my actual family has.

I can tell my own mother really regretted having me, but the one good outcome from that is that she never pushed me to have children and told me she'd be okay if I didn't.
Considering how she forced me to get an abortion as a teen (a good call in hindsight) I think it's safe to say she doesn't care. We don't talk anymore for other reasons, but I'm glad she never pressured me in that way. In fact I want to say she likely didn't want me having children because she never wanted to experience a baby again even as a grandma, in the way she fell back on her parents for help.

The only time children ever came up from her was as a threatening reprimand like, "JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE KIDS SO YOU CAN APPRECIATE ME MORE!!!" I dunno, I don't feel particularly maternal, likely due to my own damaged bond with my mom.
Do I really wanna roll those dice and potentially continue the disenfranchised cycle? Anyway, my mom revealed through bits and quips that she expected me to take care of her in old age hahahaha.
Joke's on my mom cause I refuse to have a relationship with her now, so she better hope my vulture cousins can be bribed into taking care of her poopy ass if she promises them something in the will.

No. 157097

>>157095
Oh, wow, your mom actually was subtle about that? My mother is very open about expecting me to take care of her, because she made terrible life decisions. I still love her, but I don't want to spend 20?30? years of my adult life taking care of my parents. And she wants me to have a bunch of grandkids for her to care for and to get a rich husband, too. I just want to live a simple, relatively comfy life.

No. 157098

Posted about this in another thread but seems relevant here. I don't live in a country with much murder. In the last few months with covid keeping people home more… there has been a masssive increase in the number of family killings. Every few days there's another woman and her two/three kids found dead in their home. Then you wait to see whether the mom killed them and herself or if the dad did it. I guess families are living in pressure cookers right now.

I knew domestic violence rates were expected to increase but not this.

No. 157099

>>157098
Holy shit, that's disturbing. Which country is it? If you don't mind

No. 157104

>>157097
That really sucks anon. I can't stand parents who only had kids as a retirement plan.
What grinds my gears about my mom is that she always went half-assed on my care as a child and did the bare minimum for cheap when she could get away with it. If I ever protested how she treated me she pummeled me with tirades that made me feel extreme guilt and shame. If she expects me to take care of her in any capacity then she better be grateful for my half-baked effort and feel ashamed when I yell at her for not being appreciative enough, like how she did me when I was a child. She best not complain, but I'm kinda hoping she just dies suddenly so I won't have to act as hospice for years for the chain-smoking old crow.

No. 157107

>>157099
Ireland. Had three just this week and that's pretty fuckin unheard of here.

A woman and her 7 month old baby. A man and his two adult sons (murder suicide where the wife ran for help and is alive) and now a woman and her 6 and 11 year old have been found all very violently killed.

No. 157108

>>157098
Yeah, I read similiar news from multiple countries recently, but I'm from Eastern Europe and our men were always more violent compared to the West, you can imagine how well they handle covid-lay-offs. Divorce rates are also on the rise because couples realized they couldn't actually be there "for worse" or "for poorer", and can't stand each other actually.

No. 157109

>>157107
A lot of scrote husbands are fucking losing it.
Some are resentful that they have to be home all day around their partners who they despise and consider nags, and are pressured to actually care after their own kids who they find extremely needy and annoying.
Worse yet some are unemployed or had drastic pay cuts, so they can't even soothe themselves by pretending like they contribute anything meaningful and so they shouldn't have to help out domestically.


Reading r/breakingmom has really opened my eyes. Their boyfriends and husbands are unhinged and dangerous. They chimpout when the wives attempt to roust them from their animes and video games.

No. 157119

>>157109
>go to that subreddit
>sort by "top of all time", the true nature of a subreddit
>women boasting about things like taking a 30 minute bath instead of taking the crying baby away from their begging husband
>women detailing 100-step manipulation plan to get their husbands to wash their own dishes
>husbands that can't dress themselves
Holy shit, family life is depressing as fuck

No. 157123

>>157093
sounds nice if the alternative is caring for you and your retard offspring

No. 157124

>>157097
>I still love her, but I don't want to spend 20?30? years of my adult life taking care of my parents.
Move far away. It sucks being old but if I have kids I'll make it clear they should focus on their life and don't have to take care of me. Life isn't worth living if you need constant care anyway so fuck, push me off a building or something.

No. 157126

>>157123
lol they really think their fear mongering will work
>noooo, not a peaceful life of things I enjoy instead of being a bangmaid mommy for a manchild who doesnt lift a finger around the house

No. 157127

>>157126
b-b-but at least we got picked right sis?!

No. 157137

>>156674
i know this is morbid but men usually die earlier than women so counting on a male partner is not so realistic.
friends is always good but some of them will also die.
old people will almost always need help from the younger generation. well, you can always make younger friends.

No. 157139

>>157137
>men usually die earlier than women so counting on a male partner is not so realistic.
Indeed. Slightly related, my plan for when I'm a pensioner and my partner dies is to spend time playing bridge with other widows in one of the bridge clubs. It's a very popular pastime for old widowed women here, you get nice company and you get to flex your aging brain to ward off dementia.
I found a good school for bridge and was about to start learning when corona hit. Will be going as soon as we get back to normal.

No. 157143

>>157139
Kek anon it's cute that you're taking up bridge in preparation for being a social old lady, you'll have like 50 years to get good.

Though it may have lost popularity by then, I assume old people in the future will still be playing video games.

No. 157147

>>157137
this is why I hope to date younger. Yes, it's a little sad that if I die first he'll have my money, but I don't really want to be a widow.

No. 157148

>>157143
Oh, I'm much much closer to being a pensioner than to being young. There's no time left to plan old age if I don't do it now.
I do play online games, but they're no real substitute for f2f contact, and most of the women in my generation don't.

No. 157151

>>157139
This is what my grandmother did. She ended up remarrying a widower in her mid-70's, which I can't say I would do the same. He quickly got Alzheimer's. Now she's taking care of a man she barely knew.

They are moving to a planned retirement for community, so I think that it should be helpful to her.

She recently turned 80, though, and this is the first time I'm really seeing a sharp decline in her lifestyle. The virus has aged her. If it was me, I'd be out tripping mushrooms in the forest then elect for euthanization while things are relatively good…

That said she has 4 children, 13 grandchildren. We only see her when she's throwing a party because she's actually too busy for all of us. Seriously.

No. 157265

Is there anyone else who always wanted kids but decided it's in the best interest of all parties both currently existing and hypothetical, for both personal and world issue related reasons, for that to never, ever happen? That's where I am right now. Working on coming to terms with my childfree future.

No. 157280

>>157265
I'm childfree myself, but I never desired kids, so it's not a hard decision for me.

Honestly, it seems a bit silly, unless it's a huge obstacle, like you already know you have some kind of serious degenerative disease or really hard life circumstances. Don't let people to scare you into not having kids with some kind of social activist/enviromentalist/religious slogan or because they might have made all the wrong decisions in having/raising their kids. Of course the same goes for people trying to force into having kids.
They won't be there when you might feel regret at 45+ years old, and they won't be accountable. It's your choice, so think hard.

No. 157298

>>157265
I think the other anon is right and that you should really, deeply consider if you actually want to be childfree. Obviously I don't know your specific issues, but if even dumb, accidental parents can end up raising somewhat well-adjusted adults, you may not be as bad off as you think. If it's a biological problem, then consider adopting. There are many at-risk or outright abused children that could really use a loving and stabilizing person in their lives who actually wants them.

I have personally always been childfree, but I do have a friend that ended up changing her mind after years of thinking she wanted kids. She just came to realize there wasn't really any allure in the thought of children, she just wanted them because women are "supposed" to want them. After doing more research and talking to people who are perfectly content without kids she realized that giving up her personal life and leisure time for the next 20 years to care for a small, unpredictable person wasn't really what she wanted after all.

But again, that was her realizing she didn't actually feel that way. Different from, "I do want them but won't because…"

No. 157300

>>157265
How about adopting then? You don't have to bring a new child into the world if you don't want to but you can help an existing child in need of parents. It's not for everyone obviously but it's worth a thought.

No. 157368

>>157300
In my case the problem is severe mental health issues. I try, and they are improving over time, but I'm never going to be a well-adjusted person. So I think adoption would eliminate the problem of passing on my shit genes, but wouldn't prevent me from traumatizing the child despite my best efforts.

No. 157426

>>157265
Yes. I always wanted to be a mother and dreamt of it coming true, especially around in my early 20s. I knew I wanted to wait to have them til late 20s to early 30s, I was married, and financially stable, but I knew I wanted to be a mother, wanted to be pregnant and bear children, all of that. I changed my mind when my mental health went to shit. I've struggled with it since childhood, but having children was still something to look forward to and something that I had faith that I'd be able to do.
But then the bipolar really kicked in around 20/21. I was unmedicated, had never been to therapy, and was actively suicidal. I cried all the time, couldn't eat, and started having violent hallucinations, including drowning, smothering, and beating my infant. Killing myself violently and hearing a baby cry. Just plain killing myself, which still isn't good because it would leave my child traumatized. I don't have those hallucinations anymore, but I still remember them, and I'm too terrified of my mental health ever getting so bad around a child and harming them physically or emotionally. It's not fair. I'd be an unfit mother, so I can't do it.
Not to mention all the other shit going on in the world. Thinking about those things helps me come to terms with it, but in my heart, that's the real reason I can't bring myself to have kids.

No. 157427

I'm on a one week vacation and am visiting hometown and staying at my parents house. My mom is babysitting my 7 year old niece for the weekend and oh god it hasn't been 3 hours since she arrived and I am already annoyed and angry.
It's not that I love her (I really want the best for her and worry if something bad happens), it's just my dealing-with-kids energy bar is so low, I can't stand more than 1 hour of dealing with them. Super loud, thirsty for attention, tried torturing house cat etc….my brain just starts thinking "stop, go away please", while other women don't seem to have problem dealing with it.
When I first experienced this feeling (I was about 19-20), I felt so guilty and thought there must be something wrong with me and that I am too selfish, but nowadays I learned to accept my feelings and I'm sure I'll be happier being childfree than memeing myself into having a child just because it's expected from me as a woman.

No. 157666

Having to spend time with kids just makes me irrationally angry.

No. 157675

I never wanted them because my parents constantly told me how much I cost and how much of an inconvenience I am, and neglected me.

So I'll just keep stringing family along bc they think they're investing in a breeder to be.

Does anyone else lie about this? Society treats childless women like dog shit anyways, I'm not going to fuck myself over by being 'authentic'.

No. 157689

>>156622
one of my friends once told me that i was selfish for no wanting kids… but from my perspective is completely the opposite. you bring people to this fucked up world just so YOU can feel acomplished in life… how is THAT not selfish and self centered?

No. 157697

>>157689
There's absolutely no logic to it. You physically cannot be selfish towards a child that doesn't exist, and motivations for having children are inherently selfish by nature.

What they really mean by 'selfish' is that childless people can focus on themselves rather than kids, and they resent the very idea that someone might be able to live without making the same sacrifices they do. It's absolutely true that I'm CF because I want to prioritize myself over anyone else and if I had a child that might manifest in selfishness, but since I choose not to have kids it's a moot point.

No. 157701

>>156622
I hated kids until I had some now I just hate everyone else' kids. Be a grown ass woman and make babies. Nothing sadder than an old childless woman.

No. 157703

>>157701
I love kids and I want kids, but people who don't want kids should not have kids. No child should be raised begrudgingly. Being a parent is not some sort of side project.

No. 157705

>>157703
>Being a parent is not some sort of side project.

Step 1: find a good man
Step 2: easy
Step 3: have a fulfilling life and not be the depression riddled wine aunt who wasted her life chasing dick and travel photos for likes on her social media(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 157706

>>157705
You seem very defensive over the fact that other women are happy making different choices than you did. Might want to take the bitterness to the vent thread.

No. 157707

>>157706
they seem like a scrote from the way they talk about it, i wouldn't waste another reply on them tbh

No. 157714

>>157701
Enjoy your deflated balloon tits and busted open, punched lasagne looking vag. Not for me, thanks.

No. 157715

>>157714
Nayrt but how unnecessarily immature

No. 157722

>>157689
It's a matter of perspective. People that think life is saint and always thought about kids as a goal will see creating life as a goal, and it's not like you'd tell them that they're wrong in their perception (or at least, it'd make you a hypocrite). If someone thinks life's meaning and imperative is to pass on life and create good people to replace us, then it is selfish.

I can understand people that think like this, but I also don't see myself as a "corridor" for other people to be born into the world (especially since motherhood is a thousand times worse than fatherhood), but as my own person that's here to fuck around.

No. 157727

I have always been a fence sitter. I don’t agree with >>157701 that an old woman without children is sad in general, but I do fear that I will be sad some day. I enjoy the life I am living, but I don’t see myself doing the same things in 10, 20 or 30 years. The love and integrity happy families seem to experience is something I really long for (and I know that not all families work like that). Procreating and seeing a little human growing up, teaching them things and giving + receiving unconditional love in the best case sounds great. Many of the things mentioned here don’t bother me – I know that kids are loud, but I think if it is your own child that you love, you will be able to cope. And while there definitely are health risks, "lasagne looking vag" (kek) is not really my concern.

Still, I am not 100% convinced. I am scared of pregnancy, but I also don‘t know if I want to adopt. I have mental health issues and don’t want to experience PPD or worse. I am sceptical of how my relationship with my partner of 10+ years will change (some say it gets even better, some feel jealousy and/or can’t handle the stress). I also don’t trust the (health) system because I often hear stories of women experiencing violence by medical personnel when giving birth, thus developing PTSD. And those women don’t get enough support because suddenly the only thing you are is a mother and people expect you to give up everything else because of that. If I have children, I want to continue being myself, a human being, and not a vessel that everyone can judge as they like.

And then again, I often see parents around my age who seem happy, share all the work, give each other space & (alone) time. I can see that with my partner, but the fear is still there.

No. 157729

>>157701
Nothing sadder than a woman who thinks that other women's only purpose in life is to be a baby incubator with no choice on the matter or reign over her own life.

That is, if you're a woman. This thread reeks of scrotes who're scared of women who're independent from men and who won't serve them babies and dedicate their lives to mommying both the kids and the father.

If a woman decides to have children out of her own free will, that's great. If a woman decides not to have children out of her own free will, that's also great.

As girls and women we shouldn't fight or shame each other over our decision to have children or not. Instead we should stand together to continue to fight and protect our freedom of choice. There's nothing more important than our freedom of choice regardless of what that choice is.

No. 157731

>>157729
Well said, anon. I agree that women should be supportive towards each other, whether they want to have children or not. The classical doubting ("Oh, you don’t want to have children? You will change your mind honey, just wait!") and belittling childfree women is not okay at all. Hopefully society will realize that one day.

However, I think "both sides" in this discourse should be more considerate of other perspectives and goals in life. As someone who is on the fence, I often encounter childfree women who somehow sound incredibly bitter and resentful, ITT as well (spreading fear, making fun of ideas that favor having children, bodyshaming, using words like "baby incubator" or "deflated balloon tits" to hurt women that consider having children). I don’t have children, highly doubt having them and still, my childfree friends constantly feel the need to point out that I am boring, conservative and will ruin my life just because I am sometimes considering having children. I am used to scrotes, tradwife types and older people judging me and deciding on what I should to with my life, but I hate that other women who face the same issues perpetuate it, too.

No. 157732

>>157729
There totally should be a freedom of choice, but it gets tiresome when women with kids think less of you for not having given birth. I have been told I am incomplete as a woman for not having a baby, that I will never know true love, or the meaning of life because of it. They dont seem to get that not everyone wants to jump over the fence and into the minefield called parenthood. Thats not to say I think all aspects of parenting are negative, I can imagine there is great joy to be had in it, but it is just this tunnel vision attitude of some women towards others that pisses me off the most. I will stand with women who want kids, but the moment they start saying I am a lesser being or not living life to the full? They can get lost, in my opinion.

No. 157738

>>157715
It's very immature for seething mommies to come into a thread they know they won't like to bucketcrab other women into destroying their lives and bodies. Didn't she have something better to do anyway, like clean the piss bottles out of her children's rooms or do her baby daddy's laundry?

No. 157740

>>156651
me too, fuck. i hear/read stories from parents who have severely autistic kids and it always sounds like the most massive cope in the universe. "he's so smart, she gives me a new perspective on life, i'd never change a thing! btw they knocked my teeth out when they threw a tantrum over a toy and i'm constantly concerned for their future"

No. 157741

>>157729
men be like "i want kids" as if they have any say in the matter, lmao. i will never date a male who claims to want kids. what he means is he wants a sex maid who acts like his mom while doing none of the work and claiming all the glory of fatherhood.

No. 157743

>>157729
Very true, I wish we would respect each other more. Unfortunately I feel we have a long way ahead of us, seeing women still shame each other for using pads vs tampons in 2020. As if having periods wasn't shitty enough.

>>157731
NTA from above but thank you for this, sometimes I need a nudge towards self reflection as well. My own bitterness stems from what has been said a hundred times in this thread, but that's not an excuse for nasty behaviour towards children-positive people which just creates a cycle of resentfulness between the two sides. My money is on your friends being scared of losing you if you have kids/family but shaming you isn't a way to win you over.

I really really really wish some women wouldn't do that "I was 100% sure I never wanted kids just like you, then I had an oopsie and kept the baby, now I love being a mom and I have another kid on the way. Just you wait, the same will happen to you!" shtick. I know they mean well because it's their very impactful very personal experience, but I highly doubt they were ever truly childfree or if they ever gave their future life a good long thought. Please, don't say you're childfree unless you mean it, you're ruining it for all of us who have to beg our doctors to tie our tubes because yes we are absolutely sure we want this. Speaking of which, a question I saw somewhere in the thread:
>How can you be sure your husband won't change his mind and eventually leave you for someone who will have his babies?
No other way around it but a good long discussion about his openness to sterilization - yours, his, or both.

No. 157744

I read that childless women were four times more likely to die early from circulatory disease, cancers, and accidents than those with children, and men were about twice as likely. The conclusion was that being childless reduces your fight for life.
There's also this study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24937580/
It's sad that people can't find a strong drive for life as long as they don't have kids at their home. It was never that important to me but the importance society puts on it also puts pressure on me. People (like doctors) will literally care LESS about you if you don't have kids. When you're young, yeah, they will care, but it's only because there's still a potential for you to have children. I had doctors telling me many times that we have to be careful with this and that because "one day I will have children". But once you hit your late 30s and you're still childless, people will care less and less. In case of cancer, doctors obviously don't care about older people as much as they care about the young, but I think it's even more apparent if that person is childless.

No. 157745

>>157744
Anon, I'm going to bestow some secret knowledge upon you: doctors don't give a fuck about you whether or not you have children. They want to scrape the walls of your cervix to do your pap and get you the fuck out of there as fast as possible to gouge the next vagina with their speculum, rinse and repeat ad nauseam.

No. 157747

>>157745
>doctors don't give a fuck about you whether or not you have children

Unless you want a tubal, then they magically discover a wellspring of personal concern that makes them incapable of rendering service.

No. 157748

>>157745
I wasn't talking about gynecologists but doctors in general. Don't tell me they would care about a childless woman in her 40s the same way they would care about a 25 year old

No. 157749

>>157744
Yeah well I'm not going to base the decision on whether or not to get children on the vague potential of dying earlier. Considering no one is aware that childless women aparantly die younger, I doubt it's that severe.

No. 157753

>>157748
why don't you just not tell them that you don't have kids unless they ask?

No. 157754

>>157741
i don't trust men saying they want kids either. they all suck at being fathers. before having a child i'd go to an expensive mental health facility, get all my trauma in check, and i'd only have one with a man who does the same. everything else would be a recipe for disaster aka another traumatized child in this world

No. 157757

>>157740
There's like a story of a family with an autistic child making the rounds in my country on social media, they have a young very autistic child. The mother is very real though, she talks about how her child's existence isn't really good for anyone, not society, not her, not even for himself who can't understand why he must scream all the time. She talks about how she knows she has to put him into an institution when he begins puberty, because she's afraid of him beating her or sexually molesting her (which is apparently VERY common in families raising teenage-adult low functioning autistic children). And at the end of an interview made with her, she still says "I wouldn't change a thing". Yeah, okay.

No. 157758

>>157744
>In case of cancer, doctors obviously don't care about older people as much as they care about the young
Honestly, I wouldn't blame them, one has maybe a potential of 40 years ahead them and a way better chance of recovery. If I become terminally ill/cancerous at 65+, I'd rather just pass on with painkillers keeping me sane than going through the fucking butchery and hell that is current cancer treatment.

No. 157759

>>157747
What's more likely?
>they don't want to get sued (Denmark's laws do protect the doctors from blame 100%, but I don't know about other places)
>they're wary of taking away a young person's fertility out of actual human concern
>they think every woman should have at least one child

You really think they're so zealous about filling every womb?

No. 157762

File: 1604252572704.png (10.85 KB, 210x260, BBCF6213-A929-444A-AA23-025201…)

I shudder at the convos I had with my ex fiancé about us having kids. Because I was worried about my inability to care for them properly because I lack patience and sympathy and generally dislike children (your child is fugly sorry Rebecca), suddenly I’m going to make a good mother becauseI’m seriously thinking about why I would not be a good mother. No motherfucker, I obviously have anxiety about rearing children and every time I discuss with you I’m child free and can’t handle the stress you would say “oh that’s in the future things can change.” Dude even said he’s glad he’s having kids in his 40s because if he doesn’t feel like playing with them anymore he can just say daddy is old and too tired to play. I would have been stuck with everything which is my nightmare. He never told me why he was dumping me, but I’m pretty sure him being an old scrote and me not willing to have a child right away influenced his decision. True irritation is telling the person you’re dating you don’t want kids, they say ok then a few years later try to indoctrinate you.

No. 157766

>>157759
If a doctor who refused to do tubals also refused to do any other type of surgery, set broken bones, administer vaccines, or any of the other multitudes of things doctors do that exposes them to a lawsuit risk, you'd have a point. But they don't, and you don't.

No. 157769

>>157754
Be careful with your sources anon. I looked up that "childless more likely to die from diseases" one and the study population solely consisted of women seeking IVF treatment, meaning they were taking intensive, expensive measures to have a child but ended up unable to have one. They were not "childfree" but "childless," which no doubt caused them stress. Also, only 96 women died (220 men) out of 21,000 couples. So that's ~.002%. That is a minuscule percentage, more scrotes were kicking the bucket, and I doubt this would've been much different in a random sample of people dying over the course of 11 years. Their diseases were likely pre-existing and accidents are accidents.

A consulting psychologist said, "This is a very specific situation of people who are trying to have children - the study's findings cannot be used to generalise across the whole general population." Anyway, there are are also studies that say many mothers are dealing with worse mental health and committing suicide at higher rates during COVID since they are stuck at home caring for a child (and sometime baby daddy) full-time now. It's well known postpartum depression is a thing. Another study says that childfree and child-having individuals are equally happy at the later stages of life. Don't let inconclusive evidence cause unnecessary stress.

No. 157770

>>157762
> suddenly I’m going to make a good mother because I’m seriously thinking about why I would not be a good mother
Eeew this gives me flashbacks to things my ex would say! After I'd go on a rambling explanation about all the reasons I didn't want to be a mother and how tiring, thankless and horrid it sounded, he'd say, "See baby, the fact you think about all those things and wouldn't go into it unprepared is exactly why you'd made a good mother!" Wtf you absolute retard, no. Being able to think critically about a theoretical scenario does not mean one has the desire or capacity to face it. My reasons for not doing so were clearly expressed in the actual content of what I said, but of course he didn't pay attention to that. Instead he was dazzled by my overall capacity for forethought (which I suppose is an exceedingly rare ability within the scrote community).

Glad you're not with that dumbass anymore.

No. 157774

Not to be a bitch but I'm starting to notice people that have kids young seem more immature?

No. 157775

>>157762
(that's not my child bitch!)

No. 157779

>>157774
Judging from your nametag that I'm reading here, it says "Captain Obvious." Is that correct?

No. 157782

It feels weird thinking about how many kids there are from people I know being pregnant or having babies in the last couple years, there’s like an entire classroom of them. I watch my sibling’s kids and they waste so much food, cost so much with the clothing and toys, and everyone with children has a household like this.

Once at college I overheard a woman complaining because it was taking too long for a credit card company to send her a card so she could use it to buy Christmas gifts. She literally had no money. Also at college a professor asked one of my classes how many of us wanted to have kids in the future and only two people raised their hands.

No. 157797

>>157766
>comparing broken bones to tubal ligation
I don't even know how you managed to do that, but I guess I'll level with you for a moment. Doing things that fix your health or hell, a trauma to the body are different from tying your tubes, and are often a "do or die" situation. While vaccines can be argued on (I'm not anti-vaxx, but it is true that sometimes they cause complications, and they don't know enough about why and how to avoid that), they don't really have an alternative approaches. While you still have a bunch of non-invasive contraceptive options.

You could've at least talked about plastic surgeons for comparison, but those don't really touch your innards, except for the new wave of sexual organ reassignment, which is really really questionable for normal people anyway. I guess you should just become a boy while it lasts.

No. 157799

I guess this is a bit different, but does anyone else feel weird interacting with pregnant women? I think just because pregnancy in general makes me uncomfortable, it's sort of wraps my view of pregnant women, and I actually DO start to see them as an incubator of sorts to distance myself from them mentally. I bumped into a pregnant woman in the drugstore and I apologized but felt like they were almost non-human. I'm pretty sure it's some very deep-seated aversion to pregnancy that I even project on poor strangers.

No. 157800

>>157799
What the fuck?
No, I see them as people carrying a child you weirdo. I may not want kids myself but I don't look down on people who do, as long as they're fit to be a parent and not some teenage crackhead that got knocked up by accident.

No. 157806

>>157775
(oh thank god im so happy for you girl)

No. 157808

>>157799
Honestly yea, it's a mostly me being so scared of hurting them by bumping into them, but I also find pregnancies to be gross, no matter how immature that may be. Doesn't really bother me whenever I see some random preganant lady but I have a very religious neighbor who seems to be always preganant or just given birth, walking funny and she freaks me out at the mailboxes not gonna lie. Still see them as humans, just odd and fragile.

No. 157812

>>157799
no but i feel weird around them in the sense that if i'm in close proximity with them for too long, i get paranoid that i'll be more likely to get pregnant from being around "pregnant energy" which i know sounds insane but i'm sure i'm not the only one

No. 157813

The one main thing that's keeping me child free atm is that I am shit scared of ripping my taint during childbirth.

No. 157817

>>157813
Im more scared of ripping my clit…

No. 157820

I already know I don't have the patience and tolerance for handling kids. Being 19 and having no car meant I had to be the resident babysitter for my little cousins. Don't get wrong I love them but spending more than a couple of hours with them drove me nuts. I understand being a parent is hard and my aunts/uncles needed a break from it sometimes but I also didn't pop them out so… Please take them back.

Also I hate the stigma of having kids=maturity. Like couples who talked it out and choose not have kids are being selfish but retarded teenagers who randomly get pregnant are suddenly respected as a normal couple? Organisms with two fucking cells can create life, it's not as amazing of a miracle as most think.

Anyway, there's virtually no chance of me being getting pregnant (lesbian). I haven't really broke the news to my family, esp my grandmother who really wants to see us have kids. I felt really guilty that she may never be able see me have a family, but then I was like I can't rush into a marriage and children just because others want me to do it. Also, one of my cousins has five kids, she can visit them when she wants to see babies.

No. 157825

>>157705
weird! im already the asperger's riddled beer aunt that enjoys her life, doesn't chase dick cause i dont want that and i would absolutely LOVE to have some MORE travel photos which would mean that i was able to take such photos by doing what i like most in life which is, you guessed it! spend my hard earned money on travelling. i dont hate people that want to have kids, i just despise the way most of you talk down to people that simply dont want to. hope you get better. maybe you are stressed out by all the things that you would want to do and cant cause of the kids you have to take care of?
also >find a good man
eyeroll

No. 157843

>>157813
>>157817
I had a friend who tore from clit to asshole when she had her baby. like literally her clit split in half and she had to wipe her ass carefully as to not fuck with the stitches and use like antibacterial shit on it because it was so close to her asshole. no thank you.

No. 157845

File: 1604311134685.png (79.66 KB, 500x475, cringe.png)

>>157825
The whole discussion ITT and some of the main arguments (can’t travel/have fun/have time for myself) show how deeply engraved traditional gender roles are even among seemingly progressive women and in an "anti scrote environment". If I had children, I would make sure that my partner does at least 50% of the work and that both of us can have their personal space and free time. Of course it differs from a childfree life, but if I imagine myself as a mother, I don’t see a woman that gives up herself for her child. It is a matter of mutual respect and a choice that both parents make. Most people here seem to think that in a parent relationship, the woman will always be at a lazy scrote's mercy without any autonomy. Of course those relationships exist, but it shouldn’t be the standard we apply to our own lives. I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.

I also think the whole "heheee! I can go on holiday and YOU CAN’T!" argument is incredibly dumb. It is possible to go on holiday with or without (your) children. And yes, children cost money, but if possible, you should only choose to have them if you can afford that, anyway. I think there are way more serious and real arguments against pregnancy/childbirth/being a parent than this holiday "argument".

>>157812
I think it really is better for you to not reproduce, anon.

No. 157850

>>157845
>The whole discussion ITT and some of the main arguments (can’t travel/have fun/have time for myself) show how deeply engraved traditional gender roles are even among seemingly progressive women and in an "anti scrote environment". If I had children, I would make sure that my partner does at least 50% of the work and that both of us can have their personal space and free time.
If you had a child…that very likely wouldn't be the case either, you're too optimistic. Many young women have great faith in their partner ("He's sooo caring and he loooves kids!") but in the end it's always the same, the woman ends up doing everything.
And if you had a tiny bit more freedom than your average mom then you can bet that people around you will shittalk you behind your back ("Who does she think she is?! So egoistic!"). I witness this all the time, other people and especially women being super bitter about the rare mother who doesn't place herself at the very back.
Maybe you're lucky and become an excpetion but your chances are very, very slim.
>I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.
Being this naive and being so uppity about it is the real cringe.

No. 157851

>>157800
I don't look down on them morally, I find them gross. I don't know where I even alluded to morals in my original post.

No. 157854

File: 1604315200804.jpg (104.18 KB, 592x814, 1485668932_ss (2017-01-20 at 1…)

>>157845
>I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.
Yeah, I'm sure every woman that was stuck with a partner that distanced themselves from childcare after the kid was born or left the woman was just a retard that had it coming, and had zero individuality or self-respect. You'll be fine, you're so smart, babe!

No. 157857

>>157850
It might be naive, but I really hope that society will make progress here. Just like you have seen many cases where the mother had to do everything and the scrote was a disappointment, I have seen the opposite around me. However, it is true that the mothers who are open about it (taking time for themselves, going out without baby & dad, going back to work and having the father do the paternal leave) get a lot of shit. It is depressing. I am glad so see many mothers speaking up on this issue though, trying to fight for acceptance and a different view on parenthood. And I am "uppity" about it because I was trying to bring a more positive and supportive perspective into the discussion instead of constantly fighting about stereotypes and the general hostility from both sides.

>>157854
I was not trying to say that I am better than others or that the women who suffer as parents are at fault, but that the negative examples ITT are not the only possibility.
Ideally, parenthood is a situation with mutual respect and task sharing. Of course "ideally" unfortunately is not the norm.

No. 157858

>>157845
i'm the anon you responded to. You must be very young so i wont be a giant bitch and ruin your wishful thinking. i 100% agree with you in this statement:
> it shouldn’t be the standard we apply to our own lives
but sadly that's all wishful thinking and not a reality. even if you find a "good partner and father" chances are you are still gonna do the majority of te parenting. and even worse, the scrote will be praised for "helping" you with his own children. and dont even THINK about breaking up or divorcing him cause that's where you'll be fucked up for good. he will be the fun weekend parent (if you are lucky enough that he actually sticks around) and you'll be the one doing all the real work. im an oldfag and i've witnessed time and time again this kinds of situations, especially with the seamingly "good fathers until momma doesnt want to put out anymore"

No. 157859

>>157857
You sound naive work-life-balance-chan

No. 157862

>>157854
>or left the woman

Important point: not only do mothers have to do 100% of the housework when their husbands abandon them, they will also probably have to provide 100% of the financial support. Unless you're independently wealthy enough to hire a lawyer across state and international lines, it is incredibly easy for men to get out of child support. And if you ARE independently wealthy enough, you probably won't win your case.

No. 157874

>>157845
You seem to have missed this link upthread, so I’ll spoon-feed it to you just like all the wonderful babies you plan to raise (with minimal help from dad): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/05/07/once-the-baby-comes-moms-do-more-dads-do-less-around-the-house
>More than 95 percent of the nearly 200 couples… proclaimed to want egalitarian marriages.
>both the men and women worked about 40 hours a week and spent 15 hours doing housework
>Then they had a baby. Women continued to do 15 hours a week of housework [and] added 22 hours a week of child care. Men picked up 14 hours of child care [but] did 5 fewer hours of housework.
>Plus, the study found that men were doing more of the fun child care – like playing peek a boo and reading, while the women were doing more of the diaper changing and schlepping to child care

You can have the greatest, most equal marriage in the world. And that will all change once you pop out a kid. Go for it, but don’t think even a “good” man is going to put in an equal amount of work.

No. 157895

>>157845
>If I had children, I would make sure that my partner
Why are you coming into the 'childfree' thread and boring us all with tales of your hypothetical children and plans for them? That's the last thing this thread is here for.

>I think it really is better for you to not reproduce, anon.

Again, read the thread title genius

No. 157897

>>157862
One of my mother's acquaintances was living and breeding with a guy who lived in his mother's house as her caretaker (except his partner and her daughter did all the elderly care) and refused to get a job because he didn't want to give his ex-wife a penny for raising his 2 kids. And this new woman is working every day to earn money for their living and having 3(!) kids with this waste of space enables his lifestyle. He has 5 kids, and worked like 2 years in his life. Just stop the life simulator now.

No. 157917

>>157897
He does work so I'll reluctantly give him some credit, but I'm constantly blown away a friend's dad who had 4 kids and left his wife to care for them alone while he went out swanning around with a new, younger girlfriend several states away. He paid child support but it was definitely not enough for a single mother to comfortably survive while caring for four children, even though she also worked full-time. I don't know when she ever slept and how she's not a shell of her former self today. Beyond that three of the kids were boys and all of them absolutely idolized their father for being this cool, adventurous wanderin' man while ignoring their iron-willed mother who actually kept them alive and gave them a relatively normal childhood with attention, schooling, sports and all that while having no time to herself. They were poor as shit but never knew it thanks to her. It enrages me. Thankfully now that they're older the brothers have gained a more realistic perspective of their father and appreciate what their mom did, but I cannot remotely imagine being in her position and just staying quiet while they raved about how awesome that piece of shit was. He barely changed a diaper and now he still gets to have fun family dinners and feel the "glory of fatherhood" as another anon described. She literally never said a word against the father despite what he did. Unbelievable.

No. 157932

>>157917
I just find that so unimaginable, to be able to just, take your hands off your kids like that (figuratively) and continueing with your life carefree as if you're still single and childfree. Sorry for shitty English.

No. 157941

>>157845
Spend some more time with women who have had children, anon.

The ones I know have very helpful husbands, but all of them have decided to leave work and become stay-at-home moms because someone has to. It's too challenging otherwise.

Because of this, the childcare isn't split 50%. They will be set back in their careers. In some cases, they may never reach their careers at all.

I know one stay-at-home father and it's only because he was a photographer who couldn't support a family on his salary.

No. 157949

I became pretty sure I don't want children after reaching adulthood. There are many reasons for it. I come from a fucked up family and I'm always scared that I'd get the "parenting skills" from my mother regardless of how hard I tried not to, and my family past is mostly the biggest reason. My grandma, my mother and me had suicide attempts in teenagehood, and I was also terrified of the thought of giving birth to a daughter that would have the same issues. Also me and my partner both struggled with being depressed, and it's widely known that depression can be hereditary. Other reasons as to are my past struggles with ED, which would probably hit me with an enormous force since I am a person that tends to gain weight faster, I have terrible back problems already, and I am also very career focused, to the point of really wanting to achieve something big in that path.
I was never much of a family person, and seeing my mother with her 3 small kids made me realize how fucking draining that is. Basically you have 0 time (even with one kid) for yourself until they reach primary school, and I value time for myself a lot. I don't hold any disdain for people with children, but seeing some moms being so preoccupied with their kids to the point that they see them as god's gift to earth and can't shut the fuck up about them is really annoying, and I would rather drown in a cesspool than become a person like that, completely devoid any other interests than their children.
Fortunately my partner fully supports and even agrees with my decision, but his mother is really trying to pry her way into this topic with her usual bullshit like 'children r da best!!! nothing is better that chirren!! how come you have other hobbies and interests???' and also saying stupid shit about christian weddings and baptism when we are both strong atheists.
Fuck people who borderline demonize the concept of being childless and try to indoctrinate you on how to live. If you don't want kids, don't try to change it just because someone can't understand it. Have a nice day girls.

No. 157975

>>157932
Yeah, it really doesn't make any sense to me either. He literally abandoned them except to occasionally see them during vacations years later. Now he acts like he did nothing wrong, the relationship just "didn't work out" so of course his only option was the leave (in his mind). Mothers basically never get the chance to just "walk away" like that and are left doing the duties of two by themselves. It disgusts me.

No. 157988

>>157845
iirc my parents raised me 50/50 since their work hours are lesser than average and they still didn't have time to do shit, a kid is way more work than you imagine, they demand ALOT of time, I had to be picked up from school, dropped at extracurriculars, needed time for help my homework, make me food, clean my room, toys and clothes when I was too young to do chores, and all of that was basic shit, my parents were lucky if they had a free weekend and could go to a child-appropiate location with me like a park.

No. 157995

>>157941
This. Tbh, it was spending time with women who have children that made me pretty sure I don't want any.

I have a big family and a decent sized friend group of women around my age. They'll frequently brag about how great their husband is because he watched the kids while she made dinner, or because he took them to the park so she can get 2 hours alone (while she cleans). I used to mind my cousin's kids a lot and it's bizarre going over to their house. He's always sitting down playing on his phone while the kids run around and she's cooking/cleaning, yet she's always talking about how wonderful and amazing he is.

And yes, I know, "you can't know their relationship, you're not seeing the whole picture, anon," that's true, it's not my place, but it's kinda hard to not notice it.

I don't think all these men are necessarily bad people, but the bar is ridiculously low for fathers. I don't hear any of these guys bragging about how great their wife is because she does 90% of the housework, but be damn sure they'll complain as soon as she slips up and forgets something. Motherhood isn't praised or rewarded, it's expected. Men are all basically Father of the Year if they don't run away, change their name, and move to a remote tropical island to avoid child support.

No. 158020

>>157988
>they demand ALOT of time, I had to be picked up from school, dropped at extracurriculars, needed time for help my homework, make me food, clean my room, toys and clothes when I was too young to do chores
Omg, this. I had amazing parents but they were TOO good to me tbh, it was to their own detriment. My memories of childhood are one of the biggest reasons I don't want kids because imagine if I got a kid like me?

It's crazy how much time my parents spent chauffeuring me around to (and forking out a tonne of money for) a variety of sports, music lessons, birthday parties, and dance concerts, and I would get bored and quit most extra curriculars I tried/bitch if I was forced to go. They were always helping me with my school work, from building dioramas for projects as a kid to frantically finishing my final art project at the last minute, all the random costumes and food and presentations I needed to bring in for school. And then obviously the normal housework and cooking on top of that. I was always stressed out of my mind as a kid but imagine being the parent who has to facilitate all that shit AND deal with their grumpy ass child? I distinctly remember my mum being overwhelmed and frustrated most of the time because of it. The worst part is I was sooo ungrateful, never helped around the house, always wanted them to buy me things, etc, it took me until adulthood to realise how awful it must have been for them. Even now as an adult I constantly need their help and advice, thank fuck they love me lmao. And I assume that is why they have never ever encouraged me to have kids, because they know a spoiled brat like me wouldn't cope like they did and they want me to be happy.

No. 158056

>>157988
My memory of childhood is quite the opposite of this but equally has put me off having kids. Neither of my parents drove. I walked to and from school alone. When I started secondary school that school was really far away and I spent a stupid amount of time by myself getting to and from the school every day. I never joined any sports or extra classes because I had no way of getting there and my parents wouldn't pay for any activities. Homework was done alone. My parents weren't divorced and my mom was a stay at home mom so I don't know why I spent so much time alone. My dad wanted everyone to leave him alone on his days off.

I don't want to repeat that style of parenting but seeing as I've had therapy for 'childhood neglect' (their words, not mine) I'm aware that neglected kids grow up to be a little lacking in areas. I already hate that I can't display love normally in romantic relationships.

No. 158059

I am starting studies in in a new field in my early 30ies. There are women my age with small children and seeing how they struggle to balance their lives (even when married to men) confirmed to me that being without kids is the best.

No. 158076

I see most of you don't have children because reasons. This gives the impression that having children is still your default, that you don't fulfil because this or that. Which is perfectly fine, a rational decision.
But I've always personally felt that being CF is my default, I don't need any reasons NOT to have children, not a single one. My deafault is not having them. Instead I would need a very very very strong reason TO have children, I just haven't found one and am not interested in finding it.

I hope I explained the nuance well. Anyone else like me?

No. 158082

>>158076
Yeah, you put into words how I feel aswell.

No. 158083

>>158076
I think for some there is a small amount of desire there so that's why the reasons are important to those women. I always knew I wouldn't have kids. It simply came down to having no strong desire to be selfless or in a carer role. As I got older though I do have to admit that the desire is there every once in a blue moon but it's a fleeting thought of 'what if'

So now that I have those fleeting moments I find that my list of reasons is important to me. I didn't need that list til I was already in my thirties and settled in as a homeowner etc. I have a similar list of reasons why getting a dog wouldn't realistically suit me lol. Just in case I get tempted to on impulse get a pet.

No. 158086

>>158076

Same for me. Even as a little kid I never imagined myself becoming a mother. There are definitely lots of logical reasons I shouldn't have kids if I think about it, but like at the end of the day I've just never wanted them and I feel strongly that I never will.

No. 158087

>>157851
That doesn't make your case any better.

No. 158093

>>157857
>Of course "ideally" unfortunately is not the norm
So you agree with us then?

No. 158110

>>158086
>Even as a little kid I never imagined myself becoming a mother.
Same here. I remember as a child, adults would ask me and other kids what we'd wanna become when we grew up, and other girls would always say they'd wanna become a mom. And I remember even back then thinking "Why would you wanna become a mom?".

No. 158181

>>158076
For sure, I just don't want them and never have. My reason for reasons is because people have demanded them of me all my life stating that simply not wanting kids wasn't enough, so I had to find ways to explain the innate disgust I felt at the thought of becoming a mother.

>>158110
I always thought this was creepy in hindsight. Like, it's considered normal for a child that is not yet capable of reproducing to want offspring, when they have an extremely limited concept of what that actually entails, and no insight as to how one reaches that state of being. At first it seems harmless, like how someone might dream of being an astronaut, yet when they realize how much studying, expense and outright luck it requires they move on. But for many women, it seems their outlook never expands past that original concept (except for knowing they need a scrote). I've read so many stories of regretful parents saying, "Yeah, I just thought it was normal for girls to want kids so I always felt that way too and didn't realize you could opt out."

That kind of indoctrination at such a young age, and beyond that, the way society reinforces the rose-colored view of parenthood for so long afterwards, is pretty terrifying to me.

No. 158185

>>158110
My family likes to tell me how I said that I hated children when I was 4. In a way it's hilarious when a child says that, but my opinion of them hasn't changed. I also didn't play with dolls that looked like babies. Nowadays I don't hate children, but I don't care for them, interact with them or anything else. I created my own little family with my husband and our dog.

No. 158265

>>158076
I think this is just because women are expected to be mothers. I never wanted children or imagined myself as a mother, but all I heard growing up was "you'll change your mind one day anon" and all the usual family pressure. The few women in my family who don't have kids or are unmarried are treated like they have some kind of defect.

No. 158266

>>158185
>I created my own little family with my husband and our dog
based

No. 158275

I am so fucking afraid of pregnancy/becoming pregnant and giving birth that I just want the doctors to completely get rid of my uterus. I just want to have sex with my bf and bot think about the dangers of maybe getting pregnant despite using bc. I think if I ever accidentally become pregnant I will just kill myself. Nothing more disgusting than having an alien planting itself inside you and stealing everything you like in your life.

No. 158288

>>158275
i have tokophobia and i know this feeling all too well. i know abortion is an option if it ever happened, but i'd be so devastated that i'd probably off myself first. i had a scare a while back and i was fully prepared to kill myself until i saw that i tested negative

No. 158293

I've been having daydreams about raising a baby with my ex. But the reasons for not having a baby are immortal and don't change regardless of how i feel. Just need to be mindful and steer myself away from these thoughts

No. 158303

>>158275
Just make your bf get a vasectomy/ you get tubes removed.

No. 158305

>>158275
abortion is a thing anon. whether legal or not in your country, it's always an option if you do your research
> Nothing more disgusting than having an alien planting itself inside you and stealing everything you like in your life.
based, whenever i said babies are just human parasites i get the weirdests looks… im not saying it to be edgy, it's just the objective truth: a separate organism growing and feeding off of another living thing. how is that not a parasite?

No. 158312

>>158303
NTA Getting your tubes tied isn't guaranteed and most doctors won't do it, there's also age restrictions.

No. 158316

>>158305
I found this funny and then did some research because you left me wondering, apparently there are tons of reasons why a baby can't be a parasite, here are a few: Parasites are from a different species than their host, come from an outside source, are generally harmful for the host, make direct contact with the host's living tissue (A fetus lives in the placenta and is fed by the umbilical cord, both are from fetal tissues) and they usually stay for life inside their host

No. 158319

>>158316
A fetus lives in the amniotic sac, but I get what you're trying to say. The placenta acts as a sort of filtration unit.

No. 158320

>>158316
technicalities!!! scrotes are a different species and an outside source (you need their dna to make the baby). they are harmful cause they wreck your life and stay on your life forever (granted not inside but around)
it's a joke, dont shoot me, kek

No. 158324

>>158316
>are generally harmful for the host

This is a characteristic of fetuses.

No. 158325

>>158316
> come from an outside source
I know we're getting nitpicky but I count sperm entering my body as an outside source.

I went through years of having UTIs and general irritation whenever I was sexually active. When I'm single I can masturbate as much as I like without any issues and I've had relationships with women where again the issue didn't arise. I have some weird sensitivity to sperm/the mixng of fluids that happens during straight sex so that might be why I personally see it as so foreign and unwelcome lol

No. 158342

>>158324
Not thaat much, parasites literally drain their host's health and life
>>158325
Lmao I see it tho
Anyways, anyone can hate babies and call them parasites or whatever, just know that scientifically, they aren't

No. 158345

>>158342
People say that calling men parasites is also "unscientific" and yet it's true. Actually, it depends whether the scientist is honest and based or not:
>According to a well-known UK professor of genetics, Steve Jones, men, biologically and behaviourally, are parasites

No. 158348

>>158325
biology major fun fact: sperm is actually considered as a threat by the body and is "killed" by white blood cells

impregnation fetishists getting btfo'd

No. 158353

>>158342
My fave artist used to make really dark art about parasites, insect-like things and all sorts of deformities. I had no idea why I was so drawn to it because sex and gross shit isn't my usual thing… When I bought a book on him it explained that his feelings around wanting women sexually but the fear of getting a woman pregnant was what was behind an awful lot of the art.

He spent decades producing pieces that were both sexual and grotesque and I think it's interesting to see a man was tapping into that same place of fear. On the surface it looks like it's being gross or sexual just for the hell of it but I get why it resonated with me now. Very parasite heavy imagery.

He died a few years ago, old and while he had a long term partner and the means to have kids, he was of course childless.

No. 158358

>>158348
based lesbian white blood cells

No. 158359

>>158348
Isn't vaginal discharge naturally acidic enough to kill sperm, too?

No. 158370

>>158312
It definitely depends on where you live, but in most first world countries it's actually a lot more straightforward than many people make it out to be. You hear all the horror stories about women not being taken seriously but not about the ones where everything goes smoothly. Tubal ligations are very effective these days (over 99%) if you're getting it done with cauterization, but if you're concerned request a bilateral salpingectomy instead so the tubes are completely removed. (source: had bisalp done in U.S.)

No. 158373

>>158370
Nta but I live in P*land and tubal ligation is illegal here. A doctor can face up to 10 years in prison for performing it. And abortion is legal only in cases of rape and incest or when the woman's life is at risk. I hate it here.

No. 158374

>>158370
Nta but where I live (firstworld eur) you can't get it done as a woman…if you don't already have 2/3 kids. They will not perform it on a childess woman full stop. Even if you have kids they usually want you to be 35 aswell first.

Meanwhile my ex paid 200 quid and got himself a vasectomy with the same ease that you'd book in for a tooth flling. No questions asked. He has one previous kid, not that they even wanted to know that.

No. 158383

>>158373
I've heard as much, it's been horrible seeing that Polish women are still unable to receive even the most basic rights over their bodies. I can't imagine having that fear in the back of my mind and I'm sorry you're having to deal with it directly anon.

>>158374
I have heard of restrictions like this where it's "xx age or y kids" as if all women should be required to fulfill a societal duty to reproduce and continue the species regardless of our wants and genetics in an already overpopulated world. It's ridiculous.

In any case, my intent wasn't to minimize the difficulties some anons might face. I have just heard from quite a few women in places like the US, UK, Australia, Canada and so on worrying about being turned down when the opportunity is still legally there, and it's not worth wasting time feeling nervous when you could be looking for a good doc instead. Hell in Mexico tubals are legal and cheap so if someone is running into issues in NA and really wants one they might even consider a sterilization vacation.

No. 158403

I was going to suggest a sterilization vacation too. If your country really won't do the procedure and you really want it, nothing's stopping you from visiting a country that will.

Polanon I wonder, if you had the procedure done elsewhere and came back home, would you be persecuted if your doctor found out later? Lets say you had to have an unrelated laparoscopy years later and the doctor could tell your tubes have been tampered with.

No. 158448

>>158353
Who is this artist? I'd like to check his art out.

No. 158505

>>158359
Yes, although sperm cells are ejaculated with seminal plasma, which has an alkaline pH and counteracts the vaginal acidity

No. 158506


No. 158509

>>158403
not that anon, but there have been many warnings in the polish feminist circles about pro-life people hiding behind phone numbers that were advertised for women who needed abortions, also there were some rumours about government planning to hunt women who had an abortion

still doctors here usually don't give a single shit about anything, so realistically I doubt that even with the current political climate they would've tried to persecute women after the procedure

No. 158620

File: 1604679465942.jpg (33.47 KB, 320x488, hr-giger-birth-machine_a-G-968…)

>>158353
Are you talking about H.R Giger? If so yeah, a ton of his work is very phallic and had a lot of bizarre sexual themes and not in a glorifying way Beyond doing the design for the alien it seems he presented pregnancy it a very body-horror way, even as a man. I rewatched Alien recently and the whole movie can be taken as an allegory for unwanted pregnancy.

No. 158666

CF anons, what’s your take on marriage free life? I feel like it’s a choice more readily available to us which is why I ask, other than feeling personally conflicted and undecided about it.

No. 158671

>>158666
I don't want to get married, it's a financial liability and seems like too much effort in general. Plus, honestly, I just don't want to live with a guy. I like my space and privacy. But admittedly it's a softer stance than being CF, I'd be willing to let someone change my mind. I just doubt I'll meet a guy who could.

No. 158677

>>158666
I live by three rules, child free, marriage free and moving in free. Kinda want to add dating free on that list as well, but I'm not sure yet.

No. 158685

>>158666
Tried marriage once, can't say there was any point. Divorce was surprisingly expensive (>$600), took tons of time and paperwork, and it was an all-around pain in the ass. And this was with an ex who was totally on board. I can't imagine if it had been more contentious. Saw people who'd been coming to the court for over a year because their former partner kept dragging it out so they could continue mooching benefits off of them. What misery. Sure if everything works out you get a few legal benefits, but not worth the potential drawbacks imo. You can still have a ceremony with all the bells and whistles if you like, but don't trap yourself in the legalities.

No. 158689

>>158685
This is what the hell people rushing to get married never think about, especially the ones doing it with a foreign person or abroad. Shit costs money even when you are on the best terms, I almost wish there was some test you had to take before tying the knot to see if these people know wtf they are getting themselves into. No thank you.

No. 158711

>>158666
I had to get married so I could stay with my ex in his country (visa marriage). As soon as we did it it's like a switch flipped in his head and he decided he could now stop trying and let himself go. I had to be with that clown for five years. Never fucking doing it again, it's not worth it.
I do have a boyfriend right now but it's not something I plan to maintain in the long run, just until I get bored of him.

No. 158713

>>158666
I'm not interested in getting married either. It carries no benefit for me, just risk.

No. 158730

>>158666
I'm not explicitly against marriage, I just don't really see the point of it. If I find someone I want to say with long term I'd probably opt for registered partnership instead, but I'd have to research it more to be sure.

>>158671
> I just don't want to live with a guy.
This. My mom is basically my father's maid (she'll even call herself his slave in heated arguments) and I don't want that for myself. I don't want to be some guy's live-in maid or mommy. Now I didn't grow up in healthy household, so this situation is undoubtly not comparable to anyone in a healthy relationship with a guy with good mental health and a good background, but still. I even see it when I'm around my married nieces or female friends. When we're over with a group of friends or familymembers it's always the women doing all the work (cooking, cleaning up, serving coffee etc.) while the men sit on their asses drinking a beer, even though all of them work full-time. I'm not from some conservative country and culture where women are expected to be in the kitchen and nothing else, so you'd think the divide of work at home would be more equal, but it doesn't seem to be like that at all. I don't know if it's out of sheer laziness from men/the don't care or if women simply have higher standards but I just don't want that for myself.

No. 158735

>>158666
I'm conflicted. On one hand, I really do not want to get married because the status of a "married woman" doesn't fit me one bit, I consider myself too free spirited and unconventional for that. Since we're not having kids there's even less point in doing it. I wish there were alternatives like domestic partnerships or civil unions, but none of that is available in my country. You either get married or you're just two strangers in the eyes of the law. And that's precisely the reason I've been wanting to get married lately, I've been living with my partner for 10 years and we're solid. As far as I'm concerned he's my family, not my actual blood relatives.

No. 158781

>>158666
I have a partner that I love and would like to marry him, but if we broke up then I'd just go full relationship free lesbo

No. 158998

Sort of a tangent from childfreeness, but don't know where else it fits.

I got pretty mad yesterday because an older relative of mine started talking about how women today won't even give birth because they're vain and don't want their bodies to change, but no one even really agreed with him on it fortunately. But holy hell, even if some woman is only scared for her body getting ruined (and stretchmarks are not even close to the worst things you can come out with from pregnancy, closing at DEATH), how would a man even relate? No one expects them to go through basically "body horror" (no wonder pregnancy is so often in horror movies) to pass their genes along. No man in history died in child delivery. They still lose often ruin their shape and skin by 35 even though their biology doesn't go through something as drastic as pregnancy. Why do modern everyday men even think they should get a say in ANYTHING relating to female reproduction?

No. 159009

>>158998
Both of my grandmothers had a handful of live births and a handful of still births. They have no real idea why those babies didn't survive but it was common enough not that long ago to go through pregnancy and childbirth and have a stillborn baby at the end of it with no answers.. that horrifies me.

Even when I was in college a few years ago a girl I wasn't too close to had an unexpected pregnancy but she was excited about the baby anyway and planning to make it work. Her bf was supportive. She had just lost her mother so she thought the timing of the pregnancy was significant. I wasn't close enough to her to know all the details but she was very heavily pregnant when she lost the baby and had to give birth to it. Her first time giving birth… Men can fuck off thinking the decision not to carry child is about vanity. It's always a risk. It can pay off and have a beautiful result.. but we're taking a gamble each time.

It did cross my mind that this girl I knew had a post pregnancy body and no baby and I don't think that's vain, I just tried to imagine what it feels like to have that reminder of what you lost. People say that as soon as you hold the baby you forget all the pain of childbirth instantly. But what about those not-so-lucky mothers. Where's their consolation for going through that?

No. 159024

>>158076
I’ve never had the desire to have kids but always trying to look for reasons to have them- I’m not really sure why, maybe because having kids is the norm.

Except I am constantly just finding more reasons NOT to have them. I honestly can’t think of a single good reason to get pregnant.

No. 159026

>>159024
Only reason for me would be to see what a baby produced by me and my boyfriend would look like, and even then, I really don't care. Nothing could convince me to have one. Not saying there aren't any positives for others, but there are none for me and I am happy with that.

No. 159029

A lot of my peers would put me off having kids seeing how miserable they are. I've known some to smoke heavily every day and drink on occasion through their pregnancy. Then when the kids is born they don't adjust their lifestyles and get bitter when their kid starts acting out and misbehaving. A lot of people have kids it seems out of sheer boredom or not having any other goals in life than 'have a family'. But then they get their family and don't want to change for the better for their offspring. It's absolutely sickening. The amount of my peers that openly take drugs in front of their young kids too is ridiculous. People really do think children are little retards and treat them as such but then also get mad when they're kid isn't showing signs of being the next Einstein. Like I still have memories from early childhood and I'm in my 30s.i thought my parents were awful for having verbal shouting matches before finally separating thankfully, but I've been at friends houses and they're having full on physical domestics in front of their kids. Breaking furniture, punching holes in the walls in anger. If their parents were doing that shit while they were growing up they'd be acting like life's biggest victims. I've had a 4 year old tell me about mummy and daddy fighting and hitting each other. Like I never saw my parents hit each other but I have been told by my mum it happened on rare occasions but away from the kids and that's horrible too, but like I see my friends having domestics and no shame. It's so fucking gross

No. 159050

>>158666
Idk if I'm 'marriage-free.'

I don't really see the point to getting married, so I'm not pushing for it to happen one way or the other. My boyfriend really seems to want us to get married one day.

He's serious boyfriend #3 after many non-serious boyfriends. So I'll have to see if I can make it past the 3 year mark first. I do love him, but I don't have any fairy tale ideas about what a marriage would be like. To me it's just a way of saying, "Okay we are choosing to be each other's family now."

Also none of that wedding bullshit. He loves talking about who his groomsmen would be and I'm like, "This is kinda silly like choosing who will be in your homecoming group. I've literally never even met any of these people in the 1+ year we've been dating because you don't hang out with them. And we're almost 30."

Like he's lived with girlfriends before. My grandparents still just call every bf they meet by the first bf of mine they ever met lmfao. We're experienced adults who have been independent for some time, this isn't some weird coming of age thing where we leave our families, start a family, etc.

I understand their function when girls were literally taken from their families and it was probably the last time they would see them- that's just (luckily) not the case in our culture.

No. 159774

Single woman in my 30s, childfree with plans to stay childfree. I bought a small townhouse a couple years ago and I can't get over how many people have pestered me with
>You should get a dog
>Why don't you get yourself a dog
>Are you not lonely in that house all by yourself
>A dog would be good for you
>How about a cat
I know some people without children do the whole thing of raising pets and that's cool if that's your thing. I don't want pets. I don't have a garden for a dog. I'm not dying of loneliness after I chose to buy a house by myself. There is no void in my life that I'm looking to fill.

If I had a bf or if I were a man living alone I wouldn't get this shit. Stop imagining my life is empty if I don't have an animal or baby to dote on or dedicate myself to. I don't want the responsibility of either. That's why I've made the choices I've made.

No. 159775

>>159774
That's why I love big cities, you're anonymous in a crowd of other anons, I would be stressed out living in a small town where everybody knows each other.

No. 159786

I know someone personally that basically only had a child because her husband was rich and she wanted "relationship glue" to make sure she never looses him.

Their relationship is basically her being pampered and taken care of while he does all the income and house work.

I see a lot of "glue babies" where either the man or the woman will be the driving encouraging force in having a child just to put a lock on the relationship rather than it being a mutual decision.

No. 159800

>>159786
She’s really lucky it worked out that way. Every time I’ve seen a couple say, “Hey we have problems, you know what would fix that and bring us closer together? Babies!” They’re then divorced within the next year or so. But it seems like there weren’t any big issues in her relationship to start at least. Sad for the kid though, to just be an insurance plan/bargaining chip.

No. 159802

>>159774
>Are you not lonely in that house all by yourself
kek yeah I often see people say shit like
>omg but can you imagine… going home to an empty apartment at night? So depressing, so lonely!!
to scare people into getting married/having kids and I'm just like lmao that's the fucking dream though? Getting back to an empty place is the best feeling. Time to chill and eat with nobody to answer to.

No. 159817

>>159774
>Are you not lonely in that house all by yourself

Finally I will be able to exist without being poked at, bothered, and judged 24/7. The horror! Kek.
I can't wait until I have a safe place only for myself, not having to clean or care after others bc it's expected, not having to put on clothes or keep in mind other people when I decorate or cook or buy shit.

No. 159821

>>159786
>she wanted "relationship glue" to make sure she never looses him

Someone should go tell my deadbeat shithead father that he was glued to my mom. And also that he still owes us child support.

No. 159827

File: 1605413207387.jpg (57.22 KB, 396x400, big-eyed-girl-the-wanderer-wya…)

I plan on staying child free and marriage free. No pets either, I like being alone without responsibility aside from the basics. I do however plan on nurturing myself, I had an abnormal childhood. I want to relive it as an adult and find myself. There is no room for anybody else, but me. My time, my heart, and body belongs to me only. I deserve to be one who makes me happy.

No. 159831

>>159827
Love your attitude tbh I'm striving for something similar although it's less about my childhood and more about me just wanting my life to revolve around me

No. 159833

>>159827
I never understood what it meant to love myself or why I would do such a thing until this past year. It took a terrible relationship where the guy asked me to "give him a child" (as if it were something to be purchased and gifted away, even though I said I never wanted them) and being told that living by myself sounded miserable and lonely. When he said that, I felt enraged on my own behalf. I wanted to defend myself against people like him, where before I thought I deserved to be hurt. Not anymore. I have every right to be happy, and I can make myself happy. People like him are the pathetic ones for needing to try and tear me down to feel better about themselves. Despite their attempts, the loneliness they carry in their hearts will never be healed by others.

No. 175389

I am so pissed right now. A friend's friend has been married to his wife for over 5 years and she was on the fence about having kids, leaning towards no. This dude begged and wheedled and told her how awesome and fulfilling it was going to be until she gave in. She pops out a kid and then months later they're already fighting about who's doing more childcare (spoiler: it was her). Then even further down the line he's dealing with anxiety and intense suicidal thoughts to the point it gets him in trouble at work all over the kid situation. Fucking WOW. I don't even know this woman but I feel so sorry for her. Imagine enduring 9 months of hormonal insanity, ballooning into a whale, the trauma and strain of childbirth, finally having the kid, and then the scrote who fucking pleaded with you to have his child mentally checks out and now you essentially have two children you need to care for full-time while also holding down a job. This and worse happen to women constantly. Scrotes talk about women "baby trapping" them but they do that exact thing to us all the goddamn time and have the absolute audacity to waltz out on their spawn and the "love of their life" literally or mentally whenever the fuck it doesn't suit them. Where the woman would be considered an evil mother and defective woman if she did the same. I hate men, I fucking hate them. So incredibly relieved I had myself medically sterilized and will never have to deal with this shit.

No. 175403

>>175389
JFC I hate men like that

No. 175412

>>175389
I feel so bad for her, I can't imagine how exhausted she must be at this point. I hope her scrote can grow some fucking balls and realize what he's doing. Some men are so immature it's crazy

No. 175416

Is anyone else pissed how Biden decided to give stimulus checks for families just because they have kids? wtf???

No. 175417

>>175416
No, it would be hypocritical of me. I might not be CF if parents had more financial support considering the costs are a main deterrent for me.

No. 175423

Heard a lot of stories about women in their 30s suddenly getting a strong biological urge to have children and I'm really scared that the same thing will happen to me.

Also, aside from >>156678, have any of you told your parents of your wish to remain childless? How did they react?

No. 175424

>>175423
There is no such thing as a biological urge to have children. There is a biological urge to have sex, and a biological urge to care for children. The urge to have children does not exist since all other animals lack the ability to envision and plan the future, instincts work only on things happening in the present moment (like wanting to have sex and wanting to care for the young once they're already born). Envisioning having children in the future is not something animals can do at all, apart from us. So such an urge is not possible to exist. And it isn't needed so it didn't evolve, the combination of the two existing urges is enough to propagate the species.

No. 175425

>>175423
>>175424
Samefag, I also say this as someone who past their thirties, there is no biological urge. It's total bullshit. It's all about what you want and plan for.

No. 175426

>>175424
>The urge to have children does not exist since all other animals lack the ability to envision and plan the future
1. Squirrels gather acorns to prepare for hibernation
2. Even if you pretend that your statement is true, you literally pointed out a trait where humans are unique from animals. Humans demonstrably can plan for the future.

Brainlet post of the day.

No. 175427

>>175426
1. That's simple collecting, and does not contain any cause-effect higher processing like planning children would (cause sex -> effect kids) of which animals are incapable
2) Planning is not instinct, I'm saying the instinct doesn't exist, we do plan, that was the whole point I was making

No. 175428

>>175427
How can use something that doesn't apply to humans, to make a point about humans? Are you mentally impaired?

No. 175429

>>175428
Excuse me?

No. 175430

>>175429
>>175428
How can you*

No. 175431

>>175430
It still doesn't make sense…

No. 175432

>>175431
Refer to the bit that I greentexted earlier. I'm at a loss on how to break it down any further for you.

No. 175433

>>175432
We have evolved from other animals. We're talking about urges/instinct, which had to come from somewhere evolutionarily. This supposed instinct had nowhere to come from. It doesn't exist.

No. 175434

>>175416
Might not be a direct answer to your question but your post reminded me of this article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393178

tl;dr in the wake of covid, employees with children are given extra time off for parenting while the childless employees are asked to pick up the slack

The comments really made my blood boil. They've somehow convinced themselves that by having kids they've made a noble sacrifice for the greater good of human civilization and us childless plebeians ought to be grateful for their selfless contributions.

No. 175436

>>175416
Not american, but I don't know why you would be. Kids cost money.

No. 175438

>>175423
I told my parents. Well, only one is still alive but I got the usual responses of you'll change your mind etc.. but they not to argue with me so there's that.

I just wish people my age would stop looking at me like I have 3 heads when I say I don't want kids.

No. 175443

>>175423
I'm closer to 30 than 20, and while it's nothing like the overexaggerated baby-fever in tales and movies (like wanting to sniff stranger's babies), I'm way more chill on being childfree than I was in my early twenties. Back then I was rejecting the absolute idea of being a mother, looking down on mothers and looking for justifications and like-minded people way harder, now there are days when I can visualize an alternative-reality me with a child and nice husband, but I'm not feeling the urge to have them this moment, year or even in my 5-year plan. Younger childfree people or ones that think it's the core of their identity will try to fight everyone who are "pro-child" instead of just laughing it off or just saying that we might be abnormal, and that's ok.

I never told my parents though. They'd flip their shit and tell me I'm naive and stupid because they really want grandchildren and I'm an only child. They'll casually talk about how the apartment I'm buying (single bedroom) will be unsuitable after my kid becomes school age, even though I never in my life once said anything about starting a family (or had serious relationships with men), but since it's the "norm", I will have one, there's no doubt in their mind. And I don't want to get into a screaming match about it.

No. 175444

>>175423
My family are aware I won't be having children and accept it. I got a bit of push back at first (the "Oh your aunt didn't want kids and now look at her she loves her daughters" kind) but they've come to accept it as a fact. My sibling cannot have children for medical reasons and thankfully not even that discovery has caused pressure on me to have them again. I am very lucky to have a family that's fine with it and it probably helps that I'm lesbian so there's no way to guilt me by saying I might end up pregnant by a partner accidentally and keep the baby.

No. 175449

>>175389
My ex kept begging me to have a kid with him. He stealthed me twice and I took the morning after pill,he was a fucking psycho.

No. 175486

File: 1615913998370.jpg (119.86 KB, 800x450, visible.jpg)

>>175423
I think it may be happening to me right now and I'm almost 26. I was never interested in anything children-related. I wasn't even interested in dating men until I was 25, so maybe I was just behind others in emotional development because of my autism, idk (of course I'm not saying not wanting children = emotional immaturity, there's a lot of emotionally immature parents who shouldn't have had chidlren, and emotionally mature people who just aren't interested in kids etc., it's just in my case I'm realizing things about myself later than most people, I thought I'm asexual or a lesbian because I wasn't interested in pursuing sexual relationships with men until now etc.). I still find very little children gross or just funny, but I know that eventually they move on from their ugly phase and they turn into people you're actually able to communicate with. They don't stay like this forever, thank god. And I don't feel desperate or anything, I just had this thought that if I could actually find a reliable, stable and emotionally mature man who makes me feel safe and accepted, I wouldn't mind having a family. My main fear is that men are shit and that observation of mine hasn't changed. There's literally one man I know of I could call a good husband and father and when I think about him, it activates this "need" in me. I feel "I want this", it makes me feel warm inside. But then I think about all the other fathers/husbands who are shit and that "need" disappears. I don't know how lucky you must be to find a guy who's not only attractive in your eyes but also worth having a family with.
There's also the fear that because I'm an autismo I wouldn't be able to show enough emotions to a baby. I don't think I'm expressive enought and I know that seeing an emotionless face of a primary caregiver can cause distress to a little child. It doesn't help I was neglected as a kid and I didn't have any reliable adults in my life. So yeah, even though I'm not completely against having children anymore, my fear of shitty men and my inability to be a good parent is what's stopping me. Though I think that if I met the right person I could learn to be more emotionally responsive and open. So it all comes down to the fear of shitty men. I never dated men, only women, so I wouldn't even know where and how to start. If men can screw experienced women over, what chances do I have?

No. 175494

>>175423
I never experienced baby fever, but similar experiences to >>175443. Now that I am 30, having a child is a lot more conceivable to me. It is nothing I really wish for, but I am pretty sure I would be capable of giving birth and raising a child. I feel less panic and repulsion by the thought of it. I think it is because I feel more like an actual adult now and people around me are starting their families whereas before most of my input were childfree forums or unrealistic (romantic) portrayals of parenthood in the media.

No. 175495

>>175423
I've turned 30 recently and I had no urges before and neither do I have them now. I don't particularly like or hate kids. I do hate people… well, the society for making motherhood a core value and something that is intrisic to women. It gets tiring listening to "you'll change your mind" and some other baby propaganda. But then again, I'm a nihilist and antinatalist. Actually forcing someone into this world without their consent seems selfish. I'm not suicidal but I wish I wasn't born so I couldn't possibly imagine doing the same thing to a hypothetical child. And I also agree with the anon before that there's no such thing as the biological clock, it's mostly peer pressure and seeing others around you having kids so you don't want to be left out of this adult capstone.

No. 175503

I have never had the urge to have children of my own but I am rather motherly towards ones that aren’t mine. I think because I am able to channel it elsewhere is what keeps me from the dreaded baby fever. Even if I were to catch it I think I would be ok. The thought of having a parasite live inside of me for an extended period of time and then permanently invading my personal space after makes me ill. So I will just stick to the short bursts of being around children that aren’t mine but I still get to dote on.

No. 175505

>>175495
>Actually forcing someone into this world without their consent seems selfish. I'm not suicidal but I wish I wasn't born so I couldn't possibly imagine doing the same thing to a hypothetical child.
Same. I not only have no want for a child nor motherhood, but actively think forcing life onto someone is philosophically unconscionable.

No. 175507

>>175494
This is a good way of putting what I've been feeling into words myself. I recently turned thirty and I don't want my life to change so I'm not dying to have a baby by next week but I'm aware that it of
it happened then I would be okay. I don't even have a financial security I just have my shit together enough to know I would handle it. It's a small change but also a big one.

No. 175513

>>159774
It's worse hearing this while you're still mourning your old dog's death.

No. 175519

>>175449
Jesus that’s horrifying anon. I’m so sorry you went though that and I’m glad you didn’t end up having to do anything more extreme than the morning after pill. What a fucking evil person.

No. 175520

>>175423
Nope. After I turned 30 I was overjoyed to immediately schedule my bisalp without getting bingoed and condescended to by doctors. I knew I didn’t want kids of my own ever since I was a kid myself and that has never wavered in the slightest, even when a shitty ex tried to pressure me into it.

No. 175530

>>175520
How did your bisalp go? I'm in the UK and the NHS wont touch me, so I am having to pay for it myself. I've found a private hospital that will do it but obviously with corona, they said they can't schedule it until the beds are free. I haven't even had my consult yet, but I am so excited. It's all I have dreamed of, then people can finally stop asking me.

No. 175542

>>175530
I'm sorry to hear about NHS, even with as crappy as our insurance is here in Burgerland they actually covered mine since it was "preventative" family planning (which meant less cost for them than if I got pregnant). Congrats on finding a hospital and taking the first steps though! The surgery itself went great. The worst part was honestly having to take magnesium citrate the night before which is designed to make you shit your brains out. Was in and out of the bathroom for several hours haha. But the next day there was just a lot of waiting as the team prepped things for me, then once I got in the operating room I was out really quick. They apparently intubated me but my throat was only vaguely scratchy afterwards, and it was the best recovery of any surgery I've done. I had little to no pain along my pelvis, the only thing I really felt was some tightness around my abs and chest for a couple days since they pump gas inside you, but it wasn't bad. Months later I just have two maybe 5mm "scars" that look like healing insect bites near my hips that fade more every day. The immense relief I felt afterwards can't be described. It's amazing to have those years of fear, anxiety and stress concerning pregnancy suddenly wiped away.

No. 175590

Both my parents had issues (one with alcohhol, one with depression) so I was left to partially raise my younger brother. I'm done with sacrificing time for kids. My brother and I are both childfree, and so are our significant others.

The world can go fuck itself and its expectations for all I care, there ain't enough money in the world to turn me into a mother.

No. 176991

I'm nearly two weeks post-op from getting a bisalp and shit it sure feels good. The recovery has been pretty easy and I'm so relieved that I never have to worry about pregnancy ever again. If you have the means to get sterilized I definitely recommend it! I'm 24 so I was worried it would be a nightmare getting approved for the surgery but I found a doctor from the childfree subreddit who had no problem with it.

No. 176992

>>176991
What country are you in? I'm interested in a salpingectomy but I live in the UK and worry it could be hard to get unless I go private.

No. 176997

>>176992
I'm in the midwest USA. There's a few UK doctors on this list that work for the NHS, but it does seem like it'd be more difficult for sure. I also found a write up someone made about requesting sterilization through the NHS. Hope it helps!

https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/doctors#wiki_united_kingdom
https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/sterilisation#wiki_.2Fu.2Fy-crwydryn.27s_guide_to_the_nhs.2C_contraception.2C_sterilisation_and_your_rights_as_a_patient

No. 177008

>>176992
They won't touch us, anon. I'm in the UK and I've been trying for over 10 years to get a bisalp on the NHS. I am now waiting for a consultation at a private hospital where I think the op is going to cost £3k+. I find it thoroughly annoying that you can have as many babies as you like for free, but the moment you want to take control of your fertility, they put up every barrier they can. If it helps you see how rigid, they are, I am over 30 and they still wont touch me with a barge pole. You might have better luck, but up here in the north west? Not a chance. Good luck though!

No. 177014

>>175495
>I wish I wasn't born so I couldn't possibly imagine doing the same thing to a hypothetical child.
This is exactly, exactly how I feel aswell, unfortunately you can't tell people that's your reasoning for remaining child-free.

No. 177034

>>177014
Diff anon but that last part. I had a childhood where social services had to get involved and I nearly was taken away, my dad kept that all very hush hush. Spent half my teens being monitored by social workers still and then spent my twenties privately getting counselling for childhood neglect. Got sectioned at 25 and finally broke down and spoke about the sexual abuse that social workers had tried to get me to admit to for over a decade prior. Seeing as everything was kept so hushed up though..nobody gets why I would choose to not have children today. Or just why I'm mentally not always doing the greatest. If I were frank about it with extended family I feel I just wouldn't be believed because from the outside everything looked ok and passed as normal back then. I hate that you can't be honest about things like that. The secrets carry on forever because you don't want to make people uncomfortable either, It's such a heavy topic. You have to pacify people with vague answers instead.

All the secrecy and shame, the hidden skeletons in my family.. it doesn't inspire me to try my hand at raising a well adjusted child. Some feel differently about this part..but I personally see if forever affecting my own interpersonal relationships, a parent/child relationship being the top one where I'd really have no clue on how to navigate it. If you neglect a child in their first 4 years the damage is so insanely hard to mitigate later on in life. Almost impossible. I don't want generations of that to unwittingly repeat.

No. 177041

>>177034
Generational trauma is an extremely valid reason not to have children. As is any other reason, of course.

I digress, it's so weird how people think it's okay to even ask people about their family planning unprompted imo. I don't wanna tell someone what my goals for my uterus are. What the fuck kinda archaic prying is this?! I also find it weird to hear that people are "trying for a baby" when I never asked. You're gonna tell me you're having unprotected sex? But why.

No. 177054

>>177041
Hate to be that person but this degeneracy comes from Anglos, who preach progressiveness but are obsessed with patriarchal Christian views of the 50s nuclear family and barefoot stay at home mommy wives.
I grew up in a Muslim Slav third world country that I can't believe I'm defending, but here asking a person about their family plans and telling someone you're fucking without a condom now is extremely taboo. Nobody asked, and nobody cares. How many kids you want and when you're having them is likewise a conversation to be had between two married people. Keep it to yourself.

No. 177057

Dreamed last night that I was pregnant, even though I got a bisalp a year and a half ago. In the dream I was unaware of my pregnancy until the moment my water broke and I was instantly terrified of what was about to happen to my body (tearing, etc). I was lying down and gushing blood in giant fire-hydrant torrents out of my crotch, hard enough to spray the walls with it. Fucking nasty. Woke up grateful once again that I made the choice to get sterilized. Sometimes I think about how if some kind of apocalypse happens, no moid could ever use me to repopulate against my will, and I feel contented and reassured in a way I never could before the bisalp.

No. 177059

>>177041
I think it's simply because in most people's minds it goes without saying that a couple is going to have kids.

To be honest, as much as I wish to remain childfree myself, I don't think it's that weird when people tell others they're trying for a baby. Like reproducing is a pretty normal, natural and common part of a human life and having kids is a big change in one's life. Is it that weird to tell people around you that that big change in your life is most likely coming soon? I personally don't think so.

On one hand you say you find it weird that people ask about someone else's family planning unprompted but at the same time you also say you find it weird that people ask about trying for a baby unprompted. If you can't ask about it unprompted and you can't talk about it unprompted, that would make talking about family planning and kids impossible.

I realize this is going to be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but yeah I don't think it's that weird to talk about something so completely normal in a human life.

No. 177070

>>177059
I agree. I have no interest in kids myself, but I don’t know why “trying for a baby” is somehow immediately translated to “we’re having unprotected sex” to some people. Like yeah, they probably are, but why are you thinking about that? I don’t imagine someone shitting every time someone says they need to use the washroom. No reason to make it vulgar.

No. 189833

I'm in my late 20's and I think I'm finally coming to the realization that I don't want/shouldn't have kids.

I never even thought about having kids, until I got sucked in to jordan peterson in 2016. I started listening to his lectures, which I really enjoyed. I was always really into joseph campbell so when I discovered jordan I ate it up. he says all of this stuff about how having kids gives your life purpose and whatnot, and how most women want kids, and regret focusing on their career instead. he also says that women who don't know if they want kids or not by the time they're in their mid 20's aren't "properly oriented" (k).

I convinced myself that I was somehow being selfish for never thinking of having kids, and that I should plan to have them someday.

however, the question isn't "do I want kids" but more "should I have kids" and the answer is almost definitely no. neither of my parents should have ever had children, especially not my mom. she is a hoarder who can't even take care of herself- as in do basic cleaning and hygiene- let alone raise multiple children. I grew up being neglected and as a result have a ton of mental health issues.

I'm cluster A and I have some other mental health problems, it just would not feel ethical knowing there's a high chance of passing that on to my kid(s). I can't even maintain friendships let alone raise a mentally healthy child. I have other issues too like how predisposed to obesity I am.

the biggest things I want to do in life are travel and study my subjects of interest and honestly I feel pretty guilty about that, which is fucking sad because I know a man wouldn't feel guilty about that at all. I want to travel to europe more than pretty much anything, even live there for a while ideally. however, I'm already in my late 20s and if I spent years living there then I would be in my mid/late 30's by the time I would want to settle down and have kids, which could technically still happen but would be harder to manage. and honestly travelling sounds so much more appealing then sacrificing 18 years of my life to raise another human being. also, I pretty much have 0 maternal instincts.

I just can't shake this feeling that I'm somehow being selfish though? and part of me kind of does want kids, I think. it's really hard to tell though because I'm so easily influenced, and I almost think that wanting kids is some kind of fomo for me, mostly because I am afraid I will get to be 40+ and regret not having kids but not be able to have them at that point (not that women over 40 can't get pregnant but it's harder).

No. 189840

>>189833
My mom was a piece of shit too who never should have had kids, so I know that feeling, anon. I don't plan to have kids because of a worse reason than that, but her shitty "parenting" was also a big part of it.

I like Jordan and all but it baffles me as to why these kinds of people (folks like Jordan Peterson and other speakers) seem to think women have no rich, rewarding life if children aren't involved. I'm really into history, and I've come across so many women who had fucking amazing lives, and had no kids. But I have a feeling Jordan Peterson isn't familiar with them. Idk, I feel like the only selfish people nowadays are the ones who DON'T read history. Otherwise they'd realize there's more to life than just THEIR view of it. And thinking that everyone should conform to their view is selfish.

No. 189843

>>189840
>I have a feeling Jordan Peterson isn't familiar with them

He knows lol. He started out reasonably honest, now he just panders to his fanbase (angry young men) for coin.

No. 189846

>>189840
Agreed. Being a mother is just one of the many choices and perhaps an extension of womanhood, but not its definition. You can have a happy, fulfilled life without children for sure.

>>189833
I personally would rather regret not having children than regret having them. And I also think that the possibility of regretting a childfree life one day is not a good reason to have them. As a woman that has been leaning childfree lately, I don’t want to put too much emphasis on the regret thought. There will probably be moments of FOMO once the people around me increasingly become parents and perhaps even moments of regret in certain situations, but I will simply allow these feelings and see them as what they are: Fleeting thoughts that won’t bother me for long because I know that a childfree life is better for me in general. Also Anon, I don’t think you are selfish because you have mentioned several reasons to not have children that are focused on the child and not on you. And even if you were selfish, who cares? It doesn’t matter if you don’t want to have children because you don’t want to pass on a certain illness or because you simply want to spend all your money on yourself. In the end, it is your body and your decision and it honestly is fine to be selfish in that regard.

No. 189847

>>189833
I genuinely don't understand women who listen to men when it comes to matters that are exclusively for women (having kids isn't but childbirth is).

No. 189863

>>189846
Good stuff nita. I agree that this argument often is based off of (scrote) emotion. Even if I wanted children it would be a massive life change with no way to predict if whether or not it was the life path I desired. Objectively I would have a very difficult time raising functional children, at least compared to other women, so I’m probably going to stay childfree because I’ve determined it’s the objectively the route with the least amount of potential damage. Also had an ex try to argue with me about how adoption could never be as emotionally fulfilling as blood children.

No. 189873

>>189833
>says all of this stuff about how having kids gives your life purpose and whatnot, and how most women want kids, and regret focusing on their career instead.
I always have to laugh at this, because then I'm the ultimate selfish person, because I'm not saving lives, not pushing humanity forward with big bucks or specialized knowledge but also am not producing the future workforce via birthing children. I feel like all these reddit childfree posts too give the dichotomy that you're either having kids but don't do great things or you're not having kids but then you'll be the most awesome high paid professonal adult to justify not having kids. Can't a gal just enjoy the little things?

No. 189878

I can't believe people have kids and have to miss out on so much but then seethe when I go about my life spending my time and money on me, all thise thousands that would have been put into education being spent on holidays and surviving and all the years of child rearing stress completely absent in my life, and tell me I'm unfulfilled

Saying kids are fulfilling is the biggest cope I've ever heard

No. 189879

>>189878
>Saying kids are fulfilling is the biggest cope I've ever heard
100% true

No. 189889

Sometimes I kinda want kids, or even just one… I'm not financially secure and the thought of how time-consuming and money consuming it is puts me off every time

No. 189890

>>189889
Oh and I forgot to add that I have autism so I don't know how I would cope with a little human when sometimes I struggle to even take care of myself.

No. 189893

>>189890
Same kinda. I'm a fence sitter bc I genuinely love babies and kids and I do like the idea of having a family from an idealized perspective, but my mental health issues (bipolar) make me think it's a baaad idea. Plus being a mother requires so much sacrifice and basically eats up every second of your free time for years, not to mention the physical toll of pregnancy and childbirth and all the complications that can stem from it. Then there's the possibility of having a special needs kid, or your child dying, or your partner turning out to be a violent nutcase but you're tied to him forever bc you had his kid…yeah, too many uncertainties.

No. 189950

Yesterday my older sister said, "[Nephew] could really use a boy cousin… [my name]." Then everyone started piling on.

I hate how family treats your uterus like their personal real estate. It's so degrading. Literally nobody is ever like, "Do you want kids?" They're just like, "When are you having kids…" The decision has already been made for me.

It makes me i r a t e.

I'd be more forgiving if I haven't been saying for over a decade now, "I'm pretty sure I don't want kids."

No. 189953

>>189889

I think I'm just emotionally retarded or something, because having kids is so illogical to me. It has never made any sense to me ever, and the only time I thought I wanted kids I was actually just extremely horny.

It's almost shocking to me that anyone really wants kids at all.

There don't seem to be any positives aside from they take up more of your time, and it's nice to have a project that's bigger than yourself.

No. 189958

>>189953
Yep, that's how I feel as well. Any desire to be a mother, have kids and maternal instinct is completely absent in me and I just simply can not look at having kids as something logically worth it or desirable. It does make me sometime wonder if there's something "wrong" in my brain when I see that for nearly everyone around me, having kids sooner or later goes without saying and doesn't even have to be thought about.

No. 189959

>>189953
Same. I see no pro in having them and people get sometimes upset when I mention it. I mean if someone wants them go for it, I'd be happy for them, but personally… I don't get it.

No. 189960

>>189833

>I just can't shake this feeling that I'm somehow being selfish though?


The selfless reasons for having children are creating workers. People to create and move capital. People to sustain the system. If you believe in the system, there is your selfless reason to have children. Go for it.

The selfish reasons for having children are because you want the intimacy, the closeness, the satisfaction of knowing someone is permanently connected to you and that they exist because of you.

That is why most people have children. In turn, parenthood often demands them to be really selfless people. Unfortunately not selfless enough to care about the world at large, only selfless enough to think about a body other than their own to share their DNA.

I don't mean to sound so cynical about child-parent relationships. I think parenthood probably is really enjoyable to some people. I've seen super stable and happy family structures built on that basis!

No. 189973

>>189958
NTA It probably depends on childhood socialization and general family values. Like it's somewhat tinfoily, but I think the push to have less "gendered" childhoods and not to push baby dolls for nursing on little girls makes it less likely you'll be obsessed with motherhood, but it's obviously not that simple.

Reminds me a talk I had with my friend about the vaccine and she told me she's scared of taking it, and I told her I didn't have any bad reactions to it, she told me she's scared that she could become infertile. Which I don't believe would happen, but it was also never a factor for me even when I heard those scare tactics. I was like 20 when I first said my then-boyfriend that it'd be kind of a relief to find out I'm infertile by nature, and he looked at me as if I had two heads, so I never talk about childlesness to anyone anymore kek.

No. 190074

>>189973
>it'd be kind of a relief to find out I'm infertile by nature
I have had similar thoughts, but I also refrain from telling anyone about it because it seems a bit unhinged and there is also so much suffering around infertility for many women that I feel kind of bad about it. There was a time where I brainwashed myself into wanting to have children because of societal pressure and the people around me starting to push me. I resonate with >>189953 because it just doesn’t make sense to me and I felt emotionally retarded when I saw other women talk about their deep desire to have children and how it is so important for our lives. I sat down for weeks, watching baby videos on YouTube every day with titles like "Watching this will give you baby fever!" and I tried to accept the idea of being a mother. I do find toddlers cute, so there were some Kodak moments with them I could imagine and I thought I had developed the wish for a child. But at the same time I started having really disturbing dreams around the issue (especially about breastfeeding and losing autonomy of my body) and secretly started hoping that I am infertile or even have an accident that does that to me. It showed me that I really don’t want to be a mother no matter what anyone says. You can really brainwash yourself into it, but my secret thoughts around the issue were so obvious. Now that I have come to terms with my decision and also have talked about being childfree to others, I don’t hope for infertility anymore though because I can finally be open about my desires without hoping for a secret cure.

No. 190077

>>189973
>NTA It probably depends on childhood socialization and general family values. Like it's somewhat tinfoily, but I think the push to have less "gendered" childhoods and not to push baby dolls for nursing on little girls makes it less likely you'll be obsessed with motherhood, but it's obviously not that simple.
Well, now that you make me think about it, I think I was raised in a fairly gender-neutral way. Not in a deliberate 'woke' way, but my parents never put emphasis on me being a girl and therefore different from a boy, being a girl was not a reason for anything (as in you must do or can't do xyz thing because you're a girl) and they definitely didn't talk to me about my future kids/wanting to have grandkids/"when you have kids yourself". I don't think that having kids when you grow up was ever presented to me as something that goes without saying like getting a job after you finished your education goes without saying. Maybe that's why I don't relate when anons here write about female socialisation.

No. 190079

>>156672
Really late, but this is extremely common. Having someone to be your butler when you get old is like 40% of why people have kids. Fucking absurd, it's basically believing that your kids owe you indentured servitude because they were born.

My brother got married and moved across the country recently and my mom is furious about it. She feels like being around his future children and being taken care of is the "reward" she deserves for raising him and putting him through college. Whenever she bitches about all the things she's had to do for us, my response is always, "you didn't have to have kids, you know." People who only do kind things because they expect to be rewarded shouldn't be parents, frankly.

No. 190084

>>189973
Idk I had stereotypical stuff pushed on me at a young age, which included baby dolls but I still had no interest in real babies (and still don't).

No. 190146

>>190084

I had baby dolls. I really liked babies as a teenager. I liked playing with them and holding them. Even today I really want to volunteer at the hospital to hold babies.

But for as long as I can remember, I never wanted a child of my own. When my friends in high school talked about how they wanted to get pregnant and have a baby so badly, I thought they were psychotic.

No. 190155

>>190084
>>190146
I never wanted baby dolls and when I got memed into asking for one (by every other girl having it, commercials etc) I still didn't know what to do with it and it ended up collecting dust. I never wanted to be a mom

No. 190208

File: 1622919289918.gif (768.19 KB, 237x155, nightmare_fuel.gif)

>>156622
I know for most it's just an assimilationist cope, but seriously why is it so difficult to find a childfree ssa partner?
So many want children in the next five years or have children from a previous marriage and I risk becoming some sort of stepdad figure. I feel flattered that any of these women were interested in me in the first place, but this shit really makes me panic. I wonder if I'm just avoidant and immature or internally misogynistic.
Other than that, my life is a lot easier than that of my friend; she has turned into one of those step-dad-like figures. She regularly has to deal with her gf's scrote ex and her free time is non existent.

No. 190357

>>190084
happened the same to me, and shortly after people stopped pushing having kids on me, I grew that desire on my own. Still, this is an interesting thread. I would only advise anons who want to go artificially sterile to avoid so, tbh. Gives lots of complications, and if you use dating sites and such, telling men you are sterile instead of not wanting kids is the worst idea, makes them even more careless and they will treat you like just a fucktoy.

No. 190476

>>190357
I’m low fertility i.e. I would require doctor assistance to get pregnant.

My experience with men is that they are still worried about the chances of getting me pregnant and want to be safe anyway. I hang in progressive crowds. Most of these men are anti-natalist in varying degrees.

It is much harder to get a man who doesn’t want children to talk about commitment though. They will act like they are part of a married couple for years then freak out when you ask to make it official. I’m getting to the point where I’m not sure I want to be legally chained to a guy either, though.

No. 190636

My whole family is shitty, I'm poor AF, i suffer from various mental illnesses and bipolar runs in my family, unless i become a billionaire I'm not having kids, hell nah.

No. 190640

>>190636
Samefag but i should add i live on a third world country where very young people have tons of kids for seemingly no reason, just seeing their poor, miserable offsprings trying to survive in this hopeless death trap gives me enough reason to not have kids at all. Why do poor people have so many kids? I just don't get it dude, kids will ruin you financially and mentally is such a bad move, I'm a poorfag and having a kid in these circumstances sound like the worst nightmare.

No. 190677

>>190640
Poor people can't afford contraceptives, and aren't really educated about biology in general (I heard stories of men hopping into the shower with their GFs to "wash out" the semen in my old friend group). Also when people have shit chances at life they might just want to have kids because there's nothing to look forward to. Like if you "maxed out" on life at 20 and have no ambitions (or can't even choose any), you don't worry about how limiting having kids will be.

No. 190799

I have never wanted children but am a victim of influencers I like glamorising pregnancy/babies. I know the harsh reality of it and how people only present the best of their life to the internet but it still has this weird pull on me that confuses me. Like seeing people with really reasonable children makes me think it might be OK. I don't want to change my mind because some woman on the internet had an interesting video on cloth diapers but here I fucking am, I guess.

No. 190806

>>190799
Me too, nonnie, I see too many women being happy with their quirky children and I can only think that I want one too.
The things that are keeping me away from getting one is 1. Not having a boyfriend or husband and 2. Knowing that my relatives’ kids are annoying as fuck.
I would consider suicide if I did everything on this earth to make sure my kid can turn into a decent person just to see them going full retard becauseof/on the internet and/or acting like absolute pieces of shit just because.
I just hate this game of probabilities.

No. 190809

>>190806
On top of that childhood is so temporary. You will likely know your kid as an adult longer than you will know them as a child.

Think of how many people resent their parents sheerly due to generational differences in values.

My mom also said that even if it’s more work to take care of young kids, it doesn’t hold a candle to the anxiety of having teen/adult children who now have to fend for themselves in the world.

No. 190811

>>190640
So they can pimp their kids or send them to factory to get $. Also from rape, and not being able to afford contraceptives.

No. 190816

I sometimes borrow my friend's kids to go on amusement parks and ride the kids rides I want, I do this because I would look ridiculous riding them alone.

The only reason I would have a kid is to buy toys and all the kid stuff I always wanted, shit reason to have kids so I will not breed.

No. 190863

>>156622
Long rant incoming:
I work in a place that sells sweets toys and ice cream, so I’ve witnessed the best and worst behaviour a little humanlet can display third hand many times. Some kids are so annoying and pathetic. Like, say their parents take them to get ice cream. They can’t just be content with that. They have to have EVERYTHING.
“Mummy I want the xxxl cone with chocolate and sprinkles and stwawberry sauce! Mummy daddy I don’t want a small chocolate bar, I want a fullsize xxxl chocolate bar the size of my stomach! Pleeeaaaase!” Then when they are denied they get that hurt puppy look on their face and whiiiiiine with a quivering lip, “but I waaaaaant it mummy waaaaah!” Then they stamp their feet and pout, cry, sulk like they’ve been wronged, they ruin the fucking day for everyone. Sometimes even when they’re as old as like 9 or ten they will throw themselves around and scream. They will refuse to touch the perfectly adequate treat they’ve been gifted. REFUSE it. Just one scoop of ice cream is NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Or they will see some 80.00 toy they’ll get bored of in a week, and their mother tells them to wait for their birthday and they go AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! All around the store. Like they couldn’t sound more distressed even if they where being brutally tortured. Why are some kids like this, whereas others, while pushing their luck a bit asking for more, just aren’t? I’ve seen like 3 year olds better behaved than ten year olds. When I see these kids get owned by their parents it’s so fucking satisfying, like a father stopped me once halfway through making his son an ice cream, said “we won’t be needing that anymore” then dragged the screaming little cunt out of there with no ice cream because he was so insistent he should have three large scoops with all the toppings, instead of one scoop and one topping in a medium cone which is a perfectly fucking adequate and delicious frozen treat. And he goes “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO” like some sort of dramatic drama movie. Is it just first world kids like this? The worst behaved ones are usually white. I say this as a white girl who’s parents had no qualms of smacking their kids.
Why are some kids so nice, and some are so horrible? Why do I see 5 year old brothers giving their ice cream to their crying little sister because she dropped hers? Without missing a beat, like it’s second nature for them. Why does a toddler that hardly speaks clearly decide to tell me unprompted “you’re the besttest ice cream maker in the whole world” ? It makes me ACHE for a child of my own yet when I see spoiled little bastards i literally just want to smack them? People ITT are right about generational trauma and passing on the same mistakes. I used to resent my parents for being smack happy, but that’s literally my first instinct with a kid.

Kids cannot really express their emotions and problems, so perhaps tantrums over superficial treats is just a way of expressing extraneous issues in their life that they can’t talk to their parents about? Like they have a horrible abusive teacher who calls them stupid and screams in their face, they get picked up by dad or mum and taken for ice cream so they vent their rage in a way that is safe and harbours little consequence? If I had kids I would make a habit of saying “is this REALLY what you’re upset about? Is there anything you want to talk to mummy about?” But really, I will just secretly want to smack them until they’re pink as cured ham?

Anyways, I’m approaching late 20s and defo not mentally ready for a kid KEK.

No. 190919

>>190863
The parents with good kids are good parents. There are some exceptions to this- mental illness or learning disability.

Kids are basically born narcissists. They like to push boundaries, see what works to get their way, etc. The behaviors you see with kids at your store are the ones their parents have permitted or given into.

I think a lot of parents are inconsistent. I guarantee the kid whose dad pulled him out while you were making ice cream has gotten his way before. A number of times. If not with his dad, then with his mom.

No. 191441

>>190919
>They like to push boundaries, see what works to get their way, etc.
Exactly. Not to speak ill of kids, but they are somewhat like puppies. They don't know the "pack order", so it's up to you to establish that hierarchy. You do that by setting up boundaries, like "bed by 8 pm on school days". Kids need stability and structure in their life, much like dogs.
I used to work at a summer camp as a junior counselor, and at the beginning of the season, everyone was a little unsure. But by the end, you'd see even the shy kids coming out of their shell and making friends. They knew all the songs, how to make the perfect mudball, etc.

No. 191444

I actually like kids but having some full time would be exhausting for me. I would have loved to be the childless aunt that spoilers their nieces and nephews but alas I am an only child.

I also was terribly emotionally abused as a kid and am afraid of continuing the cycle. I can handle kids in small doses but I think I’d end up snapping if I had them full time and I couldn’t live with myself if I became my dad. I don’t want to every get married for this reason too.

No. 191445

>>190863
They are bad parents and that is that. Don't listen to anybody who says it's the kid's nature or whatever dumb shit. Kids are not different from dogs, you train them if you're persistent and you adjust the training to it's temperament. They failed.

Physcial violence is not how you should train either of those species

No. 191447

>>191444
Same, hanging out with kids makes me happy and energizes me like nothing else but but I worry I'm too fucked up from abuse to raise a child without passing on my own shit.

No. 191465

>>191444
Honestly same though. I didn't have a nuclear family growing up and basically had to act like a parent for my younger sister when she was born since my mother was a lazy piece of shit. I highly doubt I would be a good parent for the simple fact that I'm already fucked up.

That and vaginal tearing. Don't want that shit either.

No. 191498

ive never wanted kids, i was even known for being really vocal about it in high school (kind of cringe but its just an aspect of who i am) and my bf seems to be okay with that as he insists, but i want to get married and im afraid his parents will put the pressure on. im SO glad i have loving parents who have always said "if you dont want kids, dont have them. its stressful and expensive" because it fucking is!

here's a CFpill. my bfs brother decided years ago (before i met current bf) it was cool to have unprotected sex with this bar whore who had multiple forced miscarriages/abortions (this grown woman partied hard when she found out she was pregnant to kill the fetus because she likely didnt know who the fathers were. yes it happened multiple times) she used to do cocaine (told me to my face it "was her drug of choice" ew) and i think theyre both alcoholics. she also has a kid with cerebral palsy who is basically a vegetable who does nothing and she also doesnt know who the father is. she has cheated on this guy before too, and sometimes acts suspicious as fuck. she is such a crazy woman i avoid her as much as possible especially when she was trying to befriend me. i think shes gotten the hint that i dont like her and honestly i dont care. anyway the point is, they have a daughter and live together now and i feel so bad for their daughter. this couple fights all the time and my bfs brother has even admitted if they didnt have a kid he would not be with her today. like what the fuck? thanks now i have to put up with this crazy chick in the family whereas the rest of you are pretty normal. she tries to act like some kind of cool anti-feminist but she puts him down often when people are over and its really fucking rude? even made fun of my bf in front of her neighbor. bfs parents are so enraptured with their grandchild they try to ignore how absolutely batshit this woman is. thank god my bf and i can talk about it at home and both agree how fucked this couple is. i feel bad for her daughter, she might end up messed up. why respect men when they have an oops kid with a bar whore lmao?

No. 191503

Holy shit, kids or children aren’t dogs, puppies, or pets you have to manipulate. I’m truly glad none of you are giving birth to anything because you are all literally the last people on Earth that should have children. Thank god, wipe off your existence off this planet and be done with it

No. 191516

>>191503
Take your meds and leave this place

No. 191552

>>190677
>Like if you "maxed out" on life at 20 and have no ambitions (or can't even choose any), you don't worry about how limiting having kids will be.
I know you're just trying to explain this mentality to me anon but damn, that sounds like the stupidest, riskiest plan ever: "life is shit and i have no opportunities so I'll bring kids to this disaster to make everything worse" wtf, i know poor people aren't very bright generally but c'mon

No. 191556

>>191516
She's kinda right tho, kids are humans they're very different to dogs or any other animal for the matter that's just how it is, anons trying to rationalize them as puppies sound inexperienced and immature.

No. 191596

>>191516 i mean, i agree that saying "training" in regards to kids is fucked up. but not all CF women are toxic.

No. 191643

>>191556
Put a kid in a household where there are no rules, the parents don't take charge, and there is no schedule. See how well the kid grows up.

No. 191651

>>191596
i don't get how it's fucked up, it's no different from saying "teaching" or something like that, plus the term "potty training" is used by actual parents a lot. are kids not supposed to be taught things?

No. 191704

>>191651
my 26 year old brother remembers watching a movie with my mom and grandma (long story but she is abusive to my mom, not a good woman) and being quiet and our grandma saying "he is well trained." people remember these things. it's dehumanizing to be referred to that way. potty training is one term, calling teaching or disciplining a kid "training" is like referring them to an animal. jeez people, i thought i hated kids. at least i dont treat them like they arent stupid fucking little humans.

No. 192398

My younger brother is around 30 and has 2 kids. Over the past several years it has become painfully obvious to me that my parents favor him. Like big time.

I'm successful, independent, thoughtful, and loving but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean shit to them anymore.

They do pretty much nothing but talk about how great my bro and his family are non stop. My mom tries to be nice but has lots of random passive insults for me that are extremely confusing.

Anyone else? Honestly I just want to cut them off sometimes.

No. 193309

>>192398
my parents dont care if i breed but im terrified my bfs parents will start to nag me when we get married. its dumb as fuck too because his brother has a kid with this absolute witch, and i can tell they think she is a bitch but are enamored with this kid. i think because they have a dysfunctional relationship too, they think it’s more normal/acceptable to hate your partner as long as you have kids with them!!!1 i fucking hate breeders. not people who have kids in general, but these people with a pathological problem of “YOU NEED TO HAVE KIDS. YOU NEED TO. otherwise you arent a respectable or functional adult.” you know, the kind of people who yell and fight in front of their kids but i guess we dont need standards and anything goes as long as you pop out children. i dont fuckin get it.



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