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No. 156622

A thread for anons who do not want kids in any context, whether biological, adopted, or step. Discuss anything relevant to a childfree lifestyle here.

Some topics for discussion to get started:
>miserable parents we know and their nightmareish lives
>the wonderful world of having expendable income
>how much better women without children age

No. 156629

I really like children but the future of the world seems helpless, from any aspect that you see it. I'm still very young and putting my career and financial stability before anything child-related but we know the world isn't getting better anytime soon so I'm pretty sure I'll abstain from having children, why would I want to bring lives to this disaster? Guess I'll fill the void by taking care of pets and loved ones

No. 156632

I don't want kids. The financial aspect and freedom of it are huge pros but honestly the real reason is that I just don't want to have a kid. It's like how most people automatically know they want to have kids, in that same way I know I don't want to have kids. It's more of a feelings-based choice.

No. 156633

I wish this could just be the normalized and be the end of it. If you don’t want to have a child there must be a reason! Just not wanting them is not ok and not possible to most people. Even other child free people expect you to have a reason

No. 156637

Even as a small girl I had zero interest in activities involving dolls, nursing, caring for others etc. and I knew I didn't want to have children of my own, but later on I just constantly saw examples of parents being neglectful, or abusive, or just failing at raising children to be independent adults who are able to create healthy relationships with others. So I'm definitely very biased now. I literally don't know any good parents. My good friend said once that basically all his friends have shitty parents. But they still want to have kids of their own because they believe they will be better at parenting. My mother was sure she will be better than her mother, and she was a terrible, abusive parent. My aunt has two adult children (32 and 38) but she still has to support them financially and she's constantly stressed out because of it. Their relationships fail constantly. My cousin has a 7 year old daughter who already has to go to therapy because she's traumatized by the behavior of her father. My other aunt was actually a pretty ok mom I think, just overworked, and yet her son still brings her nothing but problems, he was a gambler, she's been paying off his debts for years and she's fucking 65 years old now. She tells me I'm right about not wanting kids and 5 minutes later she tells me how much she loves her son and she has to "carry her burden". Men acting like caring partners and then doing basically nothing after the child is born. Men leaving when the child turns out to be sick. I've seen it all. And then I read all the horror stories on r/BreakingMom or just stories of people who regret having children but are too ashamed to admit it irl. The regret about having children is still a taboo in every culture. I never had any fear to overcome because I never wanted kids in the first place, but all of this made me even less interested. My only fear is that I will never find a partner who will want to stay childfree. I read about men who were ok with it at first and then they left or cheated anyway because they decided they want kids. How can you be 100% sure he won't change his mind?

No. 156638

>I read about men who were ok with it at first and then they left or cheated anyway because they decided they want kids. How can you be 100% sure he won't change his mind?
You can't! And you should learn to be fine with that. Look into the concept of "radical acceptance." I have a partner who is currently happy with being childfree. If he changes his mind one day, I will be okay. We could just as easily break up over a hundred different reasons, or (knock on wood) one of us might get into a terrible car accident tomorrow and we'd never be together again anyway. As much as I love my boyfriend, it's not like there are a deficit of men craving companionship if I wanted another partner. And who knows if I'd even care for one at that point; I'm quite happy being alone too. You can only control yourself in life. Worrying about what other people will or won't do is a waste of time.

Of course, take precautions and vet potential partners as best you can. Be upfront on the very first date about your stance on children. If you use apps, mention it in your profile. I got myself medically sterilized so that went a long way towards expressing how serious I was to potential partners, but in any case, have that conversation and see how the guy reacts. Ask about his long-term goals and why he wants to be child-free if he feels the same. Ask if his family is aware of his stance and what they think (sadly/stupidly enough, many people make life-changing decisions based on familial pressure alone). Don't be shy about the topic. Better to get through a potentially awkward conversation early than discover someone is a fencesitter several years into the relationship.

No. 156644

I already spent 20 years taking care of children. My life growing up was loud and chaotic and I was never truly happy until I was in a quiet environment of my own. I never want to give that up.

No. 156651

I'm terrified of popping out a retard child that I will be responsible for taking care of until the day I die. I read stories of parents venting about how they hate their potato child on reddit all the time. They make good horror stories

No. 156660

Right? I've read those, "if you're not prepared to care for a special needs child, don't have kids!!!11!" and like…okay, I won't kek.

No. 156669

I was stood talking with someone a few weeks ago and her son who is around 4 was going completely nuts. he was climbing on the roof of their car, licking the car then he jumped down off the car and got in the car and was pressing the horn. she wasn't someone I know (I'd just met) she's a friend of my mum who I was with so I didn't know how to react. she was completely fucking frazzled and even after telling him time and time again to please stand still, he wouldn't. I felt really sorry for her. whenever I think I might like kids someday I think of things like this and I'm brought back to reality. I'm sure he's a great kid but I could not deal with uncontrollable kids like that.

No. 156670

this is my train of thought too. this world is a fucking shitshow, I couldn't bring a child into it. the climate breakdown is the biggest reason I'm abstaining. it's not fair for future generations to inherit a dying planet.

if things got drastically better in the next ten years (serious action to combat the climate change issue. scientists confirming that we're achieving the goal of putting a stopper in it. is that even possible at this point?) then I would like a kid but I don't see that happening

No. 156671

Take this with a grain of salt but I think that kind of behaviour is (in most cases) the result of poor parenting skills/upbringing. Kids nowadays do shit I would not dream about doing as a kid, but in that same vein my mom says I and other kids did things when I was a kid that would've been completely unacceptable when she was a child. Parents in general have simply become less strict with every generation, at least that's what I believe.

No. 156672

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how many people do you think have kids simply because they want someone to look after them once they're old?

No. 156673

This is my only concern about not having kids, what am I gonna do when I'm old and unable to (fully) take care of myself? My grandparents have needed so much help from their 4 children and their families. And when they still lived at their home they had the whole neighbourhood keeping an eye on them, neighbours sending their kids to check on them if they didn't see my grandparents outside for a while etc. They received but also needed so much support, I'm scared what's going to happen when I'm 70 or 80 and childless. (Not that having a kid secures help in old age, but still)

No. 156674

I can't believe this is a thing people consider when having kids. This doesn't cross my mind in the slightest when I think about child rearing, and it surprises me that its a factor whenever I'm reminded. And it legitimately is, it's just really weird to think about for me. My partner and I will take care of each other. My friends and I will take care of each other. I think it's great that children want to take care of their parents. I fully intend to when mine are old, I just don't think it's a necessity and it's weird to think about imo.

No. 156675

My rant for today: I loathe the "argument" parents make about remaining childfree being selfish. Be a parent, I could give a fuck, but do not lecture me about how beautiful and selfless the decision is.

Especially if they have biological children and didn't adopt - that is one of the most selfish decisions you could ever make in a world that is already overpopulated while millions of orphaned and abandoned children remain in temporary homes at best, abusive ones at worst. You are literally the opposite of a paragon of virtue by choosing to bring yet another parasite onto this overburdened planet while ignoring so many in need.

I understand why people prefer biological children: ego. They want a mini me to coo over and show off to friends and relatives. Too bad for them so many children grow up to be disappointments like most of humanity, leaving the parents as unfulfilled as they were before.

I will forever remain unconvinced that people who would never consider adoption but want a biological child should be parents. I saw a thread on Reddit the other day "celebrating" the birth of a child after 12 miscarriages. Fucking TWELVE. And of course it had Down syndrome. Went into the thread expecting people to pat her on the back, but thankfully most were asking what she was thinking when she could've adopted after the first, say, three miscarriages. Congrats you birthed a retard, enjoy spending the rest of your life caring for it and probably leeching off government assistance when you could actually be a contributing member of society. Such a saintly choice.

No. 156676

I don't want kids and never have but I am terrified of the idea of being an old, decrepit elderly woman and being completely alone in the world. I already have so few friends and I am the youngest of my siblings by 13 years. The only reason I even fathom the idea of having children is so that I'll have someone to take care of me when I'm old the way I take care of my mom.

No. 156678

One of the most ridiculous reasons to breed. The people taking care of your (the general "your") geriatric ass as a parent are generally going to be the same people taking care of those without children: professional caregivers and medical workers. For every supportive family as in >>156673 example there are 20 more where the child sticks their parent in a home and maybe visits during a holiday now and then. The majority of people are not willing nor qualified to provide fulltime care to an elderly parent when they end up requiring that level of assistance. And they shouldn't have to. What if they end up estranged from you? What if they've settled down overseas? What if they just don't want to?

It's beyond selfish to have a child and then expect them to drop everything and stop living their lives to perform the physically and mentally intense labor required to care for someone in the latter stages of their life. This isn't the middle ages where 3 generations of families live together forever. If you have a kid they are free to do as they please once they're adults, which likely doesn't involve wiping down dear old mom or dad's ass when they're too frail to do it anymore.

Again, having kids is far from a guarantee of safety and security in your later years. You are generous to be that point of stability for your mother, but even if you "raised them right," there's no way to be sure a child would do the same for you. Take responsibility for yourself. Start saving for retirement so you'll have a stable source of income when you're old and can afford a quality assisted living facility.

No. 156679

As far as I remember I always knew I never wanted children, it was never part of my life goals, even in kindergarten when they ask you to draw yourself as a grown-up (just like marriage kek). I think I have a phobia of pregnancy as well, seeing those bloated bellies on perfectly normal bodies disturbs me so much, and I'm disgusted by all the things that come with childcare (like diapers and cleaning vomit). Don't even get me started on the short and long term effects pregnancy has on women's bodies.

I give zero fuck if people give me shit for it, my parents support my decision and it's the only thing that matters. What kinda annoys me is when people assume I hate children because I want to remain child free, which is not true. I don't mind them, I even find them cute, I just don't want to have them in my life.

Like other anons said, I would also be terrified of giving birth to a child with an incurable disease, especially if it cannot be detected in utero. Like at work the other, a customer came with his son, who yelled loudly at some point (which didn't annoy even me, I was just surprised at how loud he was), and the dad said sorry and explained that he was autistic and had no awareness of his surroundings. I felt so bad for him, not only will it be difficult to take care of him the older he gets, but also he must have gotten shit from other people if he said sorry for just a yell.

No. 156681

Nta but personally I'm not concerned about money but about how to manage when I get dementia or when/if the world has evolved beyond my understandin, if that makes sense? My grandparents are simple farmers who know nothing of technology (they don't even have a tv or mobile phone), they can't even withdraw money from their own bankaccounts without my parents' assistance. My mom's in her 50's and very obviously already has trouble keeping up with everything being digitalized too, undoublty I'm going to be like that when I'm old aswell. On top of that they both suffer from dementia (that shit creeps up on you) so they need other people's help, they can't sign themselves up for a caring fascility etc. anymore.

No. 156683

Considering that it's the most common response I get from people who can't fathom choosing not to have kids, I would say a very large portion. I honestly wpuldn't be shocked if it was half or more.

No. 156684

Honestly you just have to plan in advance, seek out advocacy, lawyers and assistance programs while you're still young enough. More and more people are choosing to be CF these days, there will be increasing demand for services for the elderly and specifically designed for our circumstances.

The irony is that if you have kids just to make sure you're not alone when you're old, they might feel the same and have kids too. Then they're too busy with their own family to look after their parents anyway. Being CF means I'm gonna easily be able to look after my parents as they age.

No. 156694

Sorry if this is ot or grotesque but I have hard plans to get euthanized if I go bonkers with age. I’m pretty sure dementia is in my genes too. This is technically a choice that’s available because (rather than in spite of the fact) I won’t have kids.

No. 156697

No. 156800

It was always weird for me that some of my friends growing up wanted to be mothers ever since we were like 10 or so. I never had grand plans, so much that at 20 I had a breakdown because my life plan basically never went past starting college. I was just like 1. survive school 2. get into a college 3. ???????. Family life was absolutely not something I wanted.

And even now that I try to imagine myself in 10 years, I really can't see myself as a mother. And my picture of a "mother" is also pretty negatively colored, there's really no "real" respect in patting women on the back sometimes for doing this sacrifice for humanity's continued existence with some roses, but still laughing at them and their misery.

I can believe that motherhood can be incredibly magical (all the hormones, a special relationship with another person), and I usually avoid "childfree" spaces just because of this misguided smugness, like they're saving the planet, even though they're still spending on useless crap like crazy and make zero ecological decisions, so it's obviously not a viewpont in their life. But I understand the general sentiment, because I also don't want to live the shitty life of a young-middle aged-old mother just because that is what I'm biologically built for, and in this age, I have a choice.

No. 156803

>my friends growing up wanted to be mothers ever since we were like 10 or so
They might've just had those experiences where adults see them playing with a toy and claim that they're absolutely destined to be a great mom based on the fact that someone bought them a doll and they carried the doll gently. We imprint alot of mature expectations on little girls when they really have no business thinking about those things so young.

I remember hating both fashion dolls and baby dolls as a kid. But I liked teddy bears and a couple of my aunts would constantly comment about me having babies one day because I carried a bear around and that was 'my instinct to have kids showing' (while I'm a kid myself) I hate that shit. 30's now, childless with plans to remain that way. I still collect some plush and theres no deep meaning or great mothering instinct behind it lol

No. 156826

i have been on the fence for some times but I have noticed many people like their concept of children but not children themselves similar to the white picket fence fantasy. the reality is always so different which is my main reason why I am afraid of having children.

No. 156850

I've noticed that so many people use the internet to vent about their parents shortcomings while also assuming they'll automatically turn out as better parents by just 'doing the opposite' IMO That's not the reality of how good parents are made. You see it on reddit alot, people vent about things that happened with their parents decades ago but also brag that they are great parents themselves (while they fume about their mom online?) I can just imagine them raising another generation of venters. Parents have blindspots, for alot of us the damage happened in those blindspots. Not out of malice or intent.

There isn't enough therapy in the world to make me personally feel fit to parent kids. I suspect that I would unconsciously repeat my parents mistakes whether that's my very last intention or not. My bro is older and also childless and it's like we're ending the cycle by opting out. I wouldn't even call our childhood serious abuse but there were things lacking and I think it's very hard to adapt and somehow parent when your own needs went neglected and it disrupted development long term.

Even in my relationships with men I swore I'd never date a man like my father… I sure did though. My last relationship mimicked my parents one. It's scary how much we unconsciously chase familiarity like that. It's not as simple as "I'll be better than my parents"

No. 156867

I get so pissed off when people associate being nice, considerate, caring and so on with motherhood for women but they’re just stand-alone traits for men. I have literally had people tell me, “Oh but you have so many mothering qualities!” when I’ve expressed I’m not having kids. Bitch where? I’d say the biggest beneficial trait when it comes to being a mother is actually wanting to be one. Just because I’m polite and thoughtful does not mean I’d be parent of the year, and in fact George over there who actually likes playing with kids, teaching people things, doing monotonous tasks and is every bit as friendly as me has far more “mothering” qualities than I ever will.

No. 156878

I just don't want the pain, being pregnant terrifies and disgusts me, and I just hate the responsibility of it. Shit like climate change plays no part in my decision and honestly I find it a stupid reason.

My parents are amazing people but they can't take care of their relatives bc we live in a different country. It's never a guarantee, and why would you subject you child to that misery anyway

No. 156881


If you have any amount of exposure to young families you'll start to notice the fuck up parents eventually. They condition their kids into neuroticism or pump them full of sugar or don't take care of their basic needs, then become incredulous when things don't go their way. Not like a 4 y/o has a lot of stamina, one or two sessions of cardio-intense play a day and they tucker out. Energetic kids need an outlet, not just discipline and most parents won't give them either. People ought to be shamed for low effort parenting tbh.

No. 156913

I knew I didn't want kids the time my mom took my older sister and me (respectively 9 and 6) to help out at her sunday school church daycare for 3-year-olds. One of the kids latched onto my sister's leg while she was standing. She tried to pull away but they held on laughing at her frustration and calling her names. I asked them to let go and they talked back to me. Well - forgive me - I was 6 and adored my sister and my mom wasn't doing anything to help so I kicked the kid in the face.

No. 156922

I live in a neighborhood full of toddlers, teens and schoolkids and they're fucking obnoxious. They scream all the time, destroy other people's property, throw tantrums for no reason, my tween neighbor yells whenever he loses at Fortnite and whenever you tell them to pipe down their mother hens come at you because "he's so little, he doesn't know better~". I don't care, I'm working and it's your job to teach him better.

They're just awful little things, and I feel like parents of today are too lenient with their kids because they don't want to be labelled as abusive.

If I had kids they'd annoy me a lot and I'd resent them for not allowing me to live how I want, and that's not something I'd want for my child. The only reason people think I'd make a good mom is because I know how to take responsibility and just do what needs to be done. I'm the oldest of my family so I had to babysit my little nieces in my late teens for long periods of time, and even though they were overall nice girls and loved me a lot, I still don't want to deal with all the bullshit, can't even imagine how much harder sons would be to raise.

No. 156936

I hate everything about the thought of pregnancy and caring for a young child. Swelling up for nearly a year until I'm a whale, spending hours in labor and possibly ripping my vagina and asshole open, being incontinent or developing autoimmune diseases afterwards (happened to my mom). Then having a child suckling at your tit constantly, cleaning up vomit, shit and piss, enduring shrieking and crying, having to bathe, clothe, feed and do everything for this worm-like creature. Thousands of dollars down the drain. Struggling to find any time for myself. Then even with dedicated attention and care, knowing your child might turn out to be an asshole and resent all the time you spent with them, develop a mental illness, stop communicating with you. All that freedom given up and time wasted when you could've spent it on yourself, for what?

The only thing I think sounds remotely good about being a parent is when the kid becomes an adult, thinking they might turn out relatively functional and have appealing interests. Then I realize that's just a friend and I can get those without having to shove them out of my vag.

And people, often men, still have the audacity to say I'd make a good mom even after going on blistering, hate-filled rants like this. Likely because they know they wouldn't be the ones doing any of the work (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/05/07/once-the-baby-comes-moms-do-more-dads-do-less-around-the-house). Fuck off.

No. 156937

Add the risk of postnatal depression to that. In an old job I meet several women with postnatal psychosis too, which I didn't even know existed before that. It's like witnessing a nervous breakdown and they're never quite the same person again.

No. 156945

I shouldn't've laughed but i did

No. 156948

Same, I think it was based of anon

No. 156955

>My good friend said once that basically all his friends have shitty parents. But they still want to have kids of their own because they believe they will be better at parenting. My mother was sure she will be better than her mother, and she was a terrible, abusive parent.

I just finished reading 'The Drama of the Gifted Child' and Alice Miller says that her patients who are insistent on having kids when there is clearly still so much to work on with themselves usually do so for a few reasons:

-They want to have a child to substitute for the unconditional love they did not receive as children
-They want to 'redo' their childhood through their own children (e.g. my parents were abusive, so I won't be) and finally feel 'complete'
-Subconscious compulsion to relive their own trauma

People pretty much never choose to have a child selflessly.

No. 156957

>It's beyond selfish to have a child and then expect them to drop everything and stop living their lives to perform the physically and mentally intense labor required to care for someone in the latter stages of their life.

Yeah I'm pretty sure if you have a child, you're committing to pouring your resources into them. Not the other way around.

My boyfriend's mother does this with him and he gets anxiety attacks about how she will probably invite herself to live with him one day with the expectation that he should take care of her. She's already taken from him financially, I had to teach him to draw serious boundaries with her starting now.

This is just straight up sacrificing your body for a couple years to create a blood-source to leech off of for the rest of your life. It really fucks with him psychologically. So basically- don't have kids with the intention that they'll be your caretaker one day.

No. 156963

Wow, those reasons point-by-point were the exact shitty explanations my boyfriend gave for wanting kids (he used to be a fencesitter).

* He wanted more love in his life (he has me + plenty of friends and a large extended family… why does he need a biological child's love specifically?)
* His father was abusive and he literally said, "I want to have the opportunity to do better than he did, I think it would give me a sense of fulfillment." Kek to that, because >>156850 is 100% correct. I have seen him repeat the exact same abusive behaviors his father subjected him to. I don't put up with it and draw boundaries, but a kid does not have the presence of mind to know/communicate how their father's behaviors are harmful. He would absolutely make similar mistakes and hasn't even gone to therapy to address his lingering issues.
* Reliving his own trauma, this is again something I've seen him repeat in our relationship and he doesn't even have the self awareness to recognize it.

It really is scary how oblivious people are to their own problems, and his reasons were completely selfish. Not once did he talk about how he wanted to give his time/attention/money/health for the sake of a child, it was all about what he would receive from it. I, the staunchly childfree one, have had more interaction with kids through volunteering and work and yet he was so excited by the concept thanks to his rose-colored glasses. It's no wonder a higher percentage of men want kids than women, they're delusional and don't need to consider the huge amount of repercussions like us.

No. 156967

>It's no wonder a higher percentage of men want kids than women, they're delusional and don't need to consider the huge amount of repercussions like us.

Men aren't just delusional, they're CLUELESS. My bf didn't know:

-Babies cry most times you put them down for the first couple years
-Babies randomly throw up all the time
-What the terrible 2's are
-That some children use diapers until they are 3 and beyond

Every time we are around my nieces and nephews, he will think my siblings are just bad parents. I'm like, "No this is actually this is very normal for their development. Kids take until about 5 to even comprehend the link between behavior and consequences."

I think girls are expected early on to look after younger kids while the boys get to go out and play, so it's all just mysterious to them. They rarely have to babysit or anything like that.

Right now he thinks he's "just not ready for it yet." I'm like, mhmm, you're 30. So tell me, when are you going to be ready for screaming, crying and years of sleep deprivation? 35? 40?

inb4 he leaves me in a decade for a clueless 23 year old.

No. 156970

I totally relate, my dude kept saying that parenting gets so much easier after the first year or so when kids start to walk. Based on what experience of yours bro? You mean when they're able to remove themselves from the safety of a crib and you have to worry about them running into table edges, falling down stairs and pulling pots of boiling water onto themselves? Yeah, so much easier!

He barely has the patience to deal with our cats most of the time. CATS. The worst things they do is puke up a hairball now and then, play-fight around the house and meow like maniacs when they're hungry. And you want a fucking human child when you can barely handle that? The level of self deception was insane.

I genuinely don't care if he leaves me in a couple years, lmao. It would suck initially, it's been fun and pleasant in a lot of respects but I know I can find happiness on my own now. I pity the woman who would have to not only endure all his current issues but also have a child thrown into the mix. I cannot remotely imagine. If that ends up being what he wants again later on he is totally free to leave and find it without me, because being a parent would make me resentful and miserable and destroy the relationship we have.

No. 156972


halflife of a relationship at any given moment isn't even 5 years so its not like thats a big issue

No. 156973

There's way too many men financing their way into a 20-year-olds womb after marrying her promising her happiness and an equal relationship, and of course, financial security. Then you get all these young mothers venting about an absentee husband that never spends the night home and never changes a diaper. But everything's fine, as long as you can fool a woman into carrying on your lineage.

No. 156974

Oh yes but it's ok because 'men mature slower' and 'women mature more quickly.'

No. 156983

>And people, often men, still have the audacity to say I'd make a good mom even after going on blistering, hate-filled rants like this. Likely because they know they wouldn't be the ones doing any of the work

Then, they tell mothers who didn't plan to get pregnant that they "asked for it". This mentality is literally just reinforcing the gender stereotype- fuck your choice, whatever it is, and do the opposite bc society wants you to do what they want instead of what you want.

No. 156989

Anyone here thought about getting, or has gotten sterilized? I'm 24 and I've known forever that I don't want children and never will. I've been considering a tubal ligation for a few years, and am thinking about finally pulling the trigger. There's a good chance it's gonna be difficult to find a doctor to do it but the doctor list on /r/childfree seems pretty helpful. What are y'all's experiences with this like?

No. 156994

Me! Tbh anon I was the same and after reading so many horror stories from those subs I was prepared to have to present an entire folder full of studies and research papers in order to get approved for sterilization. In fact, I picked a gynecologist from a list covered by my insurance, asked for sterilization and he (yep, a male doc even) granted approval the same day. Couldn't have been easier. I'm not saying a more difficult situation won't arise, but don't psych yourself out before anything happens. I am older than you (29) and I know a lot of doctors are cautioned against sterilizing younger patients because they don't want people coming after them due to regrets, but there are plenty of younger women who have made it happen as well. If you encounter issues with one doctor, just move on to the next and don't let it defeat you. In the end they're all just providers offering you, a paying customer, a service.

You may want to request a bilateral salpingectomy rather than a tubal ligation. I thought I wanted a tubal at first as well, but a bisalp is more efficient because it entirely removes the fallopian tubes rather than just cauterizing them. There's literally no chance you will ever get pregnant this way. The issue with tubals is not so much that burned tissue can grow back, but improper technique where a doctor might think they've completely sealed off the tubes but in fact some portion gets left open. This increases the risk of ectopic pregnancies where an egg implants in the tube rather than the uterus and can be life threatening. I didn't want to deal with even the smallest danger of that.

Removal of the fallopian tubes also provides a significant decrease in the risk of ovarian cancer (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3671016) and so if you're not going to use them anyway, why not take the opportunity to prevent a deadly disease in the process? The procedure takes maybe 10 minutes longer than a tubal with one extra incision; it was worth it to me.

No. 157003

I'm a nanny and while I love my job it has completely reinforced my decision to not have kids - and the children I work with are extremely smart and well behaved so that's saying something. I work two 12 hour days a week and I can't imagine doing that every single day. Want to sleep in? Sorry, kids are waking up at 6 A.M. and that's that. Alone time? But Mommy, I want to play cars! Quiet? Your kid now has 50 questions about the nature of poop. Maybe you can just sit…Nope, kids need help putting on clothes, getting their homework done, and meals have to be made. I really cannot imagine living with barely any time for myself, my hobbies, my partner, to travel or do spur of the moment activities, for my whole identity to become that of "mom." The parents I work for are doctors and I have no clue how they do the amount of work they do then come home and do even more.

Then of course you've got the financial aspect, the general state of the world, the physical and mental symptoms that come with pregnancy and giving birth, the potential of giving birth to a child with some sort of illness or disorder (I personally have mental health issues I don't want to pass down), oh and the fact that if you have children with a man, even if he's the most feminist dude on Earth, you will guaranteed be doing the majority of the child rearing.

No. 157005

I really do not understand how people can know they want children without ever having taken care of a kid. And no, interacting with your relative's children for 30 minutes top at a family get together doesn't count. I feel like before people decide to have kids they need to be the sole caregiver of a child for one full day. From when they wake up to when they go to bed. See all that that entails and know you will be doing that day in and day out for the next several years. But I bet even then there would be people who would be like "Well…it's different when it's your own!!"

No. 157007

I've definitely been considering a bisalp as well since it's more effective. It would be just my luck that a tubal ligation wasn't done correctly on me. I'm just not sure if it's fully covered under my insurance or not, guess I'll have to figure that out. I'm glad to hear you had a good experience!

No. 157012

Both bisalps and tubals were covered under preventative procedures (if you haven't had a child before) in my case - hoping it's the same for you! Take care anon.

No. 157034

File: 1603876165897.png (227.09 KB, 500x500, coolaid.png)

even though I like the idea of just getting rid of my uterus and never having a period again, I'm afraid it'll fuck up my health


No. 157035

File: 1603876199922.png (1.28 MB, 1280x1053, coolaid2.png)

No. 157036

Yeah don't do that anon, unless you have a (non-sterilization related) medical reason. That's why the other methods mentioned above are superior. The paths to the ovaries are blocked/gone, but you still have your hormones and regular periods.

Believe me, I relate and would've loved to stop my periods well before menopause… if the side effects weren't so horrible.

No. 157037

It's pretty obvious that removing organs should be a last case scenario, and only if it's a malfunctioning organ anyway. But iirc tubal ligation doesn't mess with their hormone output, but it can - in some cases - fix itself, which sounds like a bad time.

I was thinking about sterilization, but in my country you're not eligible for it unless you're over 40 or already had 3 kids, and going abroad to get it done costs a whole lot of money that's unrealistic for our third world salaries. If they could get away with it, I'm sure they'd even make abortion illegal, but after seeing what's going on within our friend Poland, I'm sure they're a bit more cautious. So I just chose the oldest preventive method: abstinence. Because apparently that's the only thing they allow for now, until Orban starts assigning us as personal prostitutes for the Nation.

No. 157042

>I was thinking about sterilization, but in my country you're not eligible for it unless you're over 40 or already had 3 kids
Same in my country, I was soooo pissed when I researched the option and found out I can't have it. But now that I'm old enough and elligable for the procedure, I'm not going to do it. No reason to mess with a healthy body when the risk of pregnancy is not high anymore. Would still choose to do it if I were young and had the option, the peace of mind and total control for decades to come would make it worth it.

No. 157069

Girls, tell me about times other people (including people you don't fucking know) tried to convince you to have children.

The only time it ever happened to me was when I was working retail at a yuppie grocery. My Baby Boomer coworker steered a rather jovial conversation to child-rearing. When I said something about not wanting them, she said, "Life would be so lonely if people never had children!" I brushed her off and didn't engage any further. Funny thing is her adult daughter (30ish years old) had committed suicide. Gee, wonder why.

She ended up getting fired for forcing her unwarranted political opinions on others.

No. 157073

My older sister does it to me.

She's finally settling somewhat into motherhood, but the process has been really depressing to be honest. She had to kill off a lot of dreams once she realized she would have absolutely no time for herself. Which was really difficult for her. She kept saying, "I know this was my choice, though, I know this was my choice."

Yesterday her husband said, "Maybe I can take the kids in a stroller, and we can take a walk together when you go to vote." I saw her get visibly panicked. She said, "NO! Do you know how long I've been looking forward to this?"

I mean sis has been dreaming about doing the most mundane thing- voting- so she can just do something totally by herself for 30 minutes.

In the face of all that she'll tell me, "Oh but you're totally going to have kids- I know I make it look hard but it's SOOOO worth it." I've been insistent that I'm happy for her, but it isn't the life for me. Still she straight up tried giving me baby books the other day. I'm like… do you require me to have children to help fulfill your obvious state of denial?

No. 157084

Never, really, because I just simply don't disclose my stance on kids, not even to my parents, because I know it would be a shitshow, and they wouldn't believe me.

I'll mention how I don't like little kids sometimes when it comes up. My mom tried to get me to take over watching a little toddler boy she was looking after in the afternoons, because she found a full-time job. We were arguing for hours, because she didn't believe that I don't like spending hours playing peek-a-boo, wouldn't know what to do in a crisis situation, and kids just generally don't like me. Of course it always ends in "WELL WHAT ABOUT YOUR FUTURE KIDS? WILL YOU NOT PLAY WITH THEM?" and I just gave some evasive answer as always.

People (especially other women) like to say something to the lines of "I feel bad for your future kids" in a joking manner, or just talk about you having kids as if it's a given fact. I feel like it's easier to just stay silent.

No. 157085

I've been good at avoiding this. I have a look that screams lesbian so my older gossipy coworkers are probably reluctant to mention babies to me based on that alone. We're in a slightly homophobic country so I guess they don't want to corner me about my private life (ain't even gay, just look it lol) It's my free ticket to never having to discuss babies

Never had pressure from my parents because I lost my mom as a teen and tbh my dad almost seems like he regrets parenthood or realises he wasn't quite up to the job himself… Neither me or my sibling ever want kids and my dad doesn't appear to give a fuck. He's not a kid person and I feel like he only had us because that's what a 'normal mapped out life' looked like to him.

No. 157086

>her adult daughter (30ish years old) had committed suicide
Christ. I snorted at this twist, sad it would’ve been too brutal to remind her of that little factoid.

>Life would be so lonely if people never had children!

My ex played the “but you’ll be so lonely” card. We broke up for other reasons but in the process when I reminded him about my stance and said I might just stay alone (because I was exhausted from the relationship drama) he was all, “Oh nooo, that’s so sad, I can’t imagine you being all alone, please tell me you’ll find someone and have a family!” I looked at him like he’d grown three heads. Me being able to feel comfortable alone was a huge development due to a bad case of codependency I’d finally gotten over. It took so much therapy, mental struggle and time to see myself as a whole and complete person as I am. He knew this. I was (and am) super proud of the fact that I’d feel happy simply being in my own company, yet the misogynistic asshole could only conceive of my being fulfilled by finding another partner and breeding.

It was shockingly hilarious in a way, to know he believed I needed someone to be happy yet he himself had put me through such hell. I believe he likely intended to try and diminish my efforts in that moment, but I just shook my head and said I’d be fine on my own terms, thanks for the “concern.” Funny resolution: I did end up with another (child-free) partner now who treats me 100x better while he is still fat, alone (both childless and partnerless) living with family and at 10 years older than me, so all that’s unlikely to change.

No. 157088

Had this from a lot of people, but one of the most annoying and weird is when my mom says I should give her some grandkids so she can raise them. “Literally you can just have them then give them to me, teehee!” I know she’s (kind of) joking but I don’t find it funny in the least. One of the major reasons she wants me to have kids is indeed so she can play and interact with them, even though I’ve repeatedly told her how much I hate the thought. Which is when she hits me with the typical, “You may think that now but everything changes when you have that baby in your arms.” Kay mom, then please explain all the regretful and flat out abusive parents that experience this miracle of birth then do everything they can to get rid of their spawn. Pretty big gamble to assume everything changes at that moment when you can’t return the kid or anything if it doesn’t come. Talk like that is why so many people who shouldn’t be parents make stupid decisions. It’s exhausting and I try to avoid the topic with her at all costs.

No. 157090

I've never been too bothered, like I mentioned earlier that my parents didn't care and they never shamed me for this. I've had some random people disagreeing with me, especially during my younger years (as in "you'll change your mind when you grow up"), way less now that I'm 27.
I remember in high school a teacher said I was selfish because my non children would not be paying taxes (?????) and recently a co-worker, mother of two, said it was sad that I would never have some. I talked with other co-workers in the same age bracket as mine (late millennials) and none of us, men and women, want any children.
Sometimes I get customers saying things like "you'll see when you'll have kids" and I don't bother correcting them, they don't mean harm when saying it.

No. 157093

File: 1603906771949.jpg (Spoiler Image,237.56 KB, 1024x682, istockphoto-1148192408-1024x10…)

Damn, today I found out they made 4chan clone for coping roasties. It feels surreal and stinks of reddit. Enjoy your decades of loneliness, cats and wine. Thats about all I wanted to say, bann me now(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 157094

>"you'll see when you'll have kids"
Maybe I'm fucked in the head but if any stranger hit me with that line I would claim that I'm unable to have kids. Just to see how they react.

No. 157095

Similar experience here. Not to humblebrag but most of this thread isn't relatable to me. Strangers and exes have made more comments about my theoretical children than my actual family has.

I can tell my own mother really regretted having me, but the one good outcome from that is that she never pushed me to have children and told me she'd be okay if I didn't.
Considering how she forced me to get an abortion as a teen (a good call in hindsight) I think it's safe to say she doesn't care. We don't talk anymore for other reasons, but I'm glad she never pressured me in that way. In fact I want to say she likely didn't want me having children because she never wanted to experience a baby again even as a grandma, in the way she fell back on her parents for help.

The only time children ever came up from her was as a threatening reprimand like, "JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE KIDS SO YOU CAN APPRECIATE ME MORE!!!" I dunno, I don't feel particularly maternal, likely due to my own damaged bond with my mom.
Do I really wanna roll those dice and potentially continue the disenfranchised cycle? Anyway, my mom revealed through bits and quips that she expected me to take care of her in old age hahahaha.
Joke's on my mom cause I refuse to have a relationship with her now, so she better hope my vulture cousins can be bribed into taking care of her poopy ass if she promises them something in the will.

No. 157097

Oh, wow, your mom actually was subtle about that? My mother is very open about expecting me to take care of her, because she made terrible life decisions. I still love her, but I don't want to spend 20?30? years of my adult life taking care of my parents. And she wants me to have a bunch of grandkids for her to care for and to get a rich husband, too. I just want to live a simple, relatively comfy life.

No. 157098

Posted about this in another thread but seems relevant here. I don't live in a country with much murder. In the last few months with covid keeping people home more… there has been a masssive increase in the number of family killings. Every few days there's another woman and her two/three kids found dead in their home. Then you wait to see whether the mom killed them and herself or if the dad did it. I guess families are living in pressure cookers right now.

I knew domestic violence rates were expected to increase but not this.

No. 157099

Holy shit, that's disturbing. Which country is it? If you don't mind

No. 157104

That really sucks anon. I can't stand parents who only had kids as a retirement plan.
What grinds my gears about my mom is that she always went half-assed on my care as a child and did the bare minimum for cheap when she could get away with it. If I ever protested how she treated me she pummeled me with tirades that made me feel extreme guilt and shame. If she expects me to take care of her in any capacity then she better be grateful for my half-baked effort and feel ashamed when I yell at her for not being appreciative enough, like how she did me when I was a child. She best not complain, but I'm kinda hoping she just dies suddenly so I won't have to act as hospice for years for the chain-smoking old crow.

No. 157107

Ireland. Had three just this week and that's pretty fuckin unheard of here.

A woman and her 7 month old baby. A man and his two adult sons (murder suicide where the wife ran for help and is alive) and now a woman and her 6 and 11 year old have been found all very violently killed.

No. 157108

Yeah, I read similiar news from multiple countries recently, but I'm from Eastern Europe and our men were always more violent compared to the West, you can imagine how well they handle covid-lay-offs. Divorce rates are also on the rise because couples realized they couldn't actually be there "for worse" or "for poorer", and can't stand each other actually.

No. 157109

A lot of scrote husbands are fucking losing it.
Some are resentful that they have to be home all day around their partners who they despise and consider nags, and are pressured to actually care after their own kids who they find extremely needy and annoying.
Worse yet some are unemployed or had drastic pay cuts, so they can't even soothe themselves by pretending like they contribute anything meaningful and so they shouldn't have to help out domestically.

Reading r/breakingmom has really opened my eyes. Their boyfriends and husbands are unhinged and dangerous. They chimpout when the wives attempt to roust them from their animes and video games.

No. 157119

>go to that subreddit
>sort by "top of all time", the true nature of a subreddit
>women boasting about things like taking a 30 minute bath instead of taking the crying baby away from their begging husband
>women detailing 100-step manipulation plan to get their husbands to wash their own dishes
>husbands that can't dress themselves
Holy shit, family life is depressing as fuck

No. 157123

sounds nice if the alternative is caring for you and your retard offspring

No. 157124

>I still love her, but I don't want to spend 20?30? years of my adult life taking care of my parents.
Move far away. It sucks being old but if I have kids I'll make it clear they should focus on their life and don't have to take care of me. Life isn't worth living if you need constant care anyway so fuck, push me off a building or something.

No. 157126

lol they really think their fear mongering will work
>noooo, not a peaceful life of things I enjoy instead of being a bangmaid mommy for a manchild who doesnt lift a finger around the house

No. 157127

b-b-but at least we got picked right sis?!

No. 157137

i know this is morbid but men usually die earlier than women so counting on a male partner is not so realistic.
friends is always good but some of them will also die.
old people will almost always need help from the younger generation. well, you can always make younger friends.

No. 157139

>men usually die earlier than women so counting on a male partner is not so realistic.
Indeed. Slightly related, my plan for when I'm a pensioner and my partner dies is to spend time playing bridge with other widows in one of the bridge clubs. It's a very popular pastime for old widowed women here, you get nice company and you get to flex your aging brain to ward off dementia.
I found a good school for bridge and was about to start learning when corona hit. Will be going as soon as we get back to normal.

No. 157143

Kek anon it's cute that you're taking up bridge in preparation for being a social old lady, you'll have like 50 years to get good.

Though it may have lost popularity by then, I assume old people in the future will still be playing video games.

No. 157147

this is why I hope to date younger. Yes, it's a little sad that if I die first he'll have my money, but I don't really want to be a widow.

No. 157148

Oh, I'm much much closer to being a pensioner than to being young. There's no time left to plan old age if I don't do it now.
I do play online games, but they're no real substitute for f2f contact, and most of the women in my generation don't.

No. 157151

This is what my grandmother did. She ended up remarrying a widower in her mid-70's, which I can't say I would do the same. He quickly got Alzheimer's. Now she's taking care of a man she barely knew.

They are moving to a planned retirement for community, so I think that it should be helpful to her.

She recently turned 80, though, and this is the first time I'm really seeing a sharp decline in her lifestyle. The virus has aged her. If it was me, I'd be out tripping mushrooms in the forest then elect for euthanization while things are relatively good…

That said she has 4 children, 13 grandchildren. We only see her when she's throwing a party because she's actually too busy for all of us. Seriously.

No. 157265

Is there anyone else who always wanted kids but decided it's in the best interest of all parties both currently existing and hypothetical, for both personal and world issue related reasons, for that to never, ever happen? That's where I am right now. Working on coming to terms with my childfree future.

No. 157280

I'm childfree myself, but I never desired kids, so it's not a hard decision for me.

Honestly, it seems a bit silly, unless it's a huge obstacle, like you already know you have some kind of serious degenerative disease or really hard life circumstances. Don't let people to scare you into not having kids with some kind of social activist/enviromentalist/religious slogan or because they might have made all the wrong decisions in having/raising their kids. Of course the same goes for people trying to force into having kids.
They won't be there when you might feel regret at 45+ years old, and they won't be accountable. It's your choice, so think hard.

No. 157298

I think the other anon is right and that you should really, deeply consider if you actually want to be childfree. Obviously I don't know your specific issues, but if even dumb, accidental parents can end up raising somewhat well-adjusted adults, you may not be as bad off as you think. If it's a biological problem, then consider adopting. There are many at-risk or outright abused children that could really use a loving and stabilizing person in their lives who actually wants them.

I have personally always been childfree, but I do have a friend that ended up changing her mind after years of thinking she wanted kids. She just came to realize there wasn't really any allure in the thought of children, she just wanted them because women are "supposed" to want them. After doing more research and talking to people who are perfectly content without kids she realized that giving up her personal life and leisure time for the next 20 years to care for a small, unpredictable person wasn't really what she wanted after all.

But again, that was her realizing she didn't actually feel that way. Different from, "I do want them but won't because…"

No. 157300

How about adopting then? You don't have to bring a new child into the world if you don't want to but you can help an existing child in need of parents. It's not for everyone obviously but it's worth a thought.

No. 157368

In my case the problem is severe mental health issues. I try, and they are improving over time, but I'm never going to be a well-adjusted person. So I think adoption would eliminate the problem of passing on my shit genes, but wouldn't prevent me from traumatizing the child despite my best efforts.

No. 157426

Yes. I always wanted to be a mother and dreamt of it coming true, especially around in my early 20s. I knew I wanted to wait to have them til late 20s to early 30s, I was married, and financially stable, but I knew I wanted to be a mother, wanted to be pregnant and bear children, all of that. I changed my mind when my mental health went to shit. I've struggled with it since childhood, but having children was still something to look forward to and something that I had faith that I'd be able to do.
But then the bipolar really kicked in around 20/21. I was unmedicated, had never been to therapy, and was actively suicidal. I cried all the time, couldn't eat, and started having violent hallucinations, including drowning, smothering, and beating my infant. Killing myself violently and hearing a baby cry. Just plain killing myself, which still isn't good because it would leave my child traumatized. I don't have those hallucinations anymore, but I still remember them, and I'm too terrified of my mental health ever getting so bad around a child and harming them physically or emotionally. It's not fair. I'd be an unfit mother, so I can't do it.
Not to mention all the other shit going on in the world. Thinking about those things helps me come to terms with it, but in my heart, that's the real reason I can't bring myself to have kids.

No. 157427

I'm on a one week vacation and am visiting hometown and staying at my parents house. My mom is babysitting my 7 year old niece for the weekend and oh god it hasn't been 3 hours since she arrived and I am already annoyed and angry.
It's not that I love her (I really want the best for her and worry if something bad happens), it's just my dealing-with-kids energy bar is so low, I can't stand more than 1 hour of dealing with them. Super loud, thirsty for attention, tried torturing house cat etc….my brain just starts thinking "stop, go away please", while other women don't seem to have problem dealing with it.
When I first experienced this feeling (I was about 19-20), I felt so guilty and thought there must be something wrong with me and that I am too selfish, but nowadays I learned to accept my feelings and I'm sure I'll be happier being childfree than memeing myself into having a child just because it's expected from me as a woman.

No. 157666

Having to spend time with kids just makes me irrationally angry.

No. 157675

I never wanted them because my parents constantly told me how much I cost and how much of an inconvenience I am, and neglected me.

So I'll just keep stringing family along bc they think they're investing in a breeder to be.

Does anyone else lie about this? Society treats childless women like dog shit anyways, I'm not going to fuck myself over by being 'authentic'.

No. 157689

one of my friends once told me that i was selfish for no wanting kids… but from my perspective is completely the opposite. you bring people to this fucked up world just so YOU can feel acomplished in life… how is THAT not selfish and self centered?

No. 157697

There's absolutely no logic to it. You physically cannot be selfish towards a child that doesn't exist, and motivations for having children are inherently selfish by nature.

What they really mean by 'selfish' is that childless people can focus on themselves rather than kids, and they resent the very idea that someone might be able to live without making the same sacrifices they do. It's absolutely true that I'm CF because I want to prioritize myself over anyone else and if I had a child that might manifest in selfishness, but since I choose not to have kids it's a moot point.

No. 157701

I hated kids until I had some now I just hate everyone else' kids. Be a grown ass woman and make babies. Nothing sadder than an old childless woman.

No. 157703

I love kids and I want kids, but people who don't want kids should not have kids. No child should be raised begrudgingly. Being a parent is not some sort of side project.

No. 157705

>Being a parent is not some sort of side project.

Step 1: find a good man
Step 2: easy
Step 3: have a fulfilling life and not be the depression riddled wine aunt who wasted her life chasing dick and travel photos for likes on her social media(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 157706

You seem very defensive over the fact that other women are happy making different choices than you did. Might want to take the bitterness to the vent thread.

No. 157707

they seem like a scrote from the way they talk about it, i wouldn't waste another reply on them tbh

No. 157714

Enjoy your deflated balloon tits and busted open, punched lasagne looking vag. Not for me, thanks.

No. 157715

Nayrt but how unnecessarily immature

No. 157722

It's a matter of perspective. People that think life is saint and always thought about kids as a goal will see creating life as a goal, and it's not like you'd tell them that they're wrong in their perception (or at least, it'd make you a hypocrite). If someone thinks life's meaning and imperative is to pass on life and create good people to replace us, then it is selfish.

I can understand people that think like this, but I also don't see myself as a "corridor" for other people to be born into the world (especially since motherhood is a thousand times worse than fatherhood), but as my own person that's here to fuck around.

No. 157727

I have always been a fence sitter. I don’t agree with >>157701 that an old woman without children is sad in general, but I do fear that I will be sad some day. I enjoy the life I am living, but I don’t see myself doing the same things in 10, 20 or 30 years. The love and integrity happy families seem to experience is something I really long for (and I know that not all families work like that). Procreating and seeing a little human growing up, teaching them things and giving + receiving unconditional love in the best case sounds great. Many of the things mentioned here don’t bother me – I know that kids are loud, but I think if it is your own child that you love, you will be able to cope. And while there definitely are health risks, "lasagne looking vag" (kek) is not really my concern.

Still, I am not 100% convinced. I am scared of pregnancy, but I also don‘t know if I want to adopt. I have mental health issues and don’t want to experience PPD or worse. I am sceptical of how my relationship with my partner of 10+ years will change (some say it gets even better, some feel jealousy and/or can’t handle the stress). I also don’t trust the (health) system because I often hear stories of women experiencing violence by medical personnel when giving birth, thus developing PTSD. And those women don’t get enough support because suddenly the only thing you are is a mother and people expect you to give up everything else because of that. If I have children, I want to continue being myself, a human being, and not a vessel that everyone can judge as they like.

And then again, I often see parents around my age who seem happy, share all the work, give each other space & (alone) time. I can see that with my partner, but the fear is still there.

No. 157729

Nothing sadder than a woman who thinks that other women's only purpose in life is to be a baby incubator with no choice on the matter or reign over her own life.

That is, if you're a woman. This thread reeks of scrotes who're scared of women who're independent from men and who won't serve them babies and dedicate their lives to mommying both the kids and the father.

If a woman decides to have children out of her own free will, that's great. If a woman decides not to have children out of her own free will, that's also great.

As girls and women we shouldn't fight or shame each other over our decision to have children or not. Instead we should stand together to continue to fight and protect our freedom of choice. There's nothing more important than our freedom of choice regardless of what that choice is.

No. 157731

Well said, anon. I agree that women should be supportive towards each other, whether they want to have children or not. The classical doubting ("Oh, you don’t want to have children? You will change your mind honey, just wait!") and belittling childfree women is not okay at all. Hopefully society will realize that one day.

However, I think "both sides" in this discourse should be more considerate of other perspectives and goals in life. As someone who is on the fence, I often encounter childfree women who somehow sound incredibly bitter and resentful, ITT as well (spreading fear, making fun of ideas that favor having children, bodyshaming, using words like "baby incubator" or "deflated balloon tits" to hurt women that consider having children). I don’t have children, highly doubt having them and still, my childfree friends constantly feel the need to point out that I am boring, conservative and will ruin my life just because I am sometimes considering having children. I am used to scrotes, tradwife types and older people judging me and deciding on what I should to with my life, but I hate that other women who face the same issues perpetuate it, too.

No. 157732

There totally should be a freedom of choice, but it gets tiresome when women with kids think less of you for not having given birth. I have been told I am incomplete as a woman for not having a baby, that I will never know true love, or the meaning of life because of it. They dont seem to get that not everyone wants to jump over the fence and into the minefield called parenthood. Thats not to say I think all aspects of parenting are negative, I can imagine there is great joy to be had in it, but it is just this tunnel vision attitude of some women towards others that pisses me off the most. I will stand with women who want kids, but the moment they start saying I am a lesser being or not living life to the full? They can get lost, in my opinion.

No. 157738

It's very immature for seething mommies to come into a thread they know they won't like to bucketcrab other women into destroying their lives and bodies. Didn't she have something better to do anyway, like clean the piss bottles out of her children's rooms or do her baby daddy's laundry?

No. 157740

me too, fuck. i hear/read stories from parents who have severely autistic kids and it always sounds like the most massive cope in the universe. "he's so smart, she gives me a new perspective on life, i'd never change a thing! btw they knocked my teeth out when they threw a tantrum over a toy and i'm constantly concerned for their future"

No. 157741

men be like "i want kids" as if they have any say in the matter, lmao. i will never date a male who claims to want kids. what he means is he wants a sex maid who acts like his mom while doing none of the work and claiming all the glory of fatherhood.

No. 157743

Very true, I wish we would respect each other more. Unfortunately I feel we have a long way ahead of us, seeing women still shame each other for using pads vs tampons in 2020. As if having periods wasn't shitty enough.

NTA from above but thank you for this, sometimes I need a nudge towards self reflection as well. My own bitterness stems from what has been said a hundred times in this thread, but that's not an excuse for nasty behaviour towards children-positive people which just creates a cycle of resentfulness between the two sides. My money is on your friends being scared of losing you if you have kids/family but shaming you isn't a way to win you over.

I really really really wish some women wouldn't do that "I was 100% sure I never wanted kids just like you, then I had an oopsie and kept the baby, now I love being a mom and I have another kid on the way. Just you wait, the same will happen to you!" shtick. I know they mean well because it's their very impactful very personal experience, but I highly doubt they were ever truly childfree or if they ever gave their future life a good long thought. Please, don't say you're childfree unless you mean it, you're ruining it for all of us who have to beg our doctors to tie our tubes because yes we are absolutely sure we want this. Speaking of which, a question I saw somewhere in the thread:
>How can you be sure your husband won't change his mind and eventually leave you for someone who will have his babies?
No other way around it but a good long discussion about his openness to sterilization - yours, his, or both.

No. 157744

I read that childless women were four times more likely to die early from circulatory disease, cancers, and accidents than those with children, and men were about twice as likely. The conclusion was that being childless reduces your fight for life.
There's also this study
It's sad that people can't find a strong drive for life as long as they don't have kids at their home. It was never that important to me but the importance society puts on it also puts pressure on me. People (like doctors) will literally care LESS about you if you don't have kids. When you're young, yeah, they will care, but it's only because there's still a potential for you to have children. I had doctors telling me many times that we have to be careful with this and that because "one day I will have children". But once you hit your late 30s and you're still childless, people will care less and less. In case of cancer, doctors obviously don't care about older people as much as they care about the young, but I think it's even more apparent if that person is childless.

No. 157745

Anon, I'm going to bestow some secret knowledge upon you: doctors don't give a fuck about you whether or not you have children. They want to scrape the walls of your cervix to do your pap and get you the fuck out of there as fast as possible to gouge the next vagina with their speculum, rinse and repeat ad nauseam.

No. 157747

>doctors don't give a fuck about you whether or not you have children

Unless you want a tubal, then they magically discover a wellspring of personal concern that makes them incapable of rendering service.

No. 157748

I wasn't talking about gynecologists but doctors in general. Don't tell me they would care about a childless woman in her 40s the same way they would care about a 25 year old

No. 157749

Yeah well I'm not going to base the decision on whether or not to get children on the vague potential of dying earlier. Considering no one is aware that childless women aparantly die younger, I doubt it's that severe.

No. 157753

why don't you just not tell them that you don't have kids unless they ask?

No. 157754

i don't trust men saying they want kids either. they all suck at being fathers. before having a child i'd go to an expensive mental health facility, get all my trauma in check, and i'd only have one with a man who does the same. everything else would be a recipe for disaster aka another traumatized child in this world

No. 157757

There's like a story of a family with an autistic child making the rounds in my country on social media, they have a young very autistic child. The mother is very real though, she talks about how her child's existence isn't really good for anyone, not society, not her, not even for himself who can't understand why he must scream all the time. She talks about how she knows she has to put him into an institution when he begins puberty, because she's afraid of him beating her or sexually molesting her (which is apparently VERY common in families raising teenage-adult low functioning autistic children). And at the end of an interview made with her, she still says "I wouldn't change a thing". Yeah, okay.

No. 157758

>In case of cancer, doctors obviously don't care about older people as much as they care about the young
Honestly, I wouldn't blame them, one has maybe a potential of 40 years ahead them and a way better chance of recovery. If I become terminally ill/cancerous at 65+, I'd rather just pass on with painkillers keeping me sane than going through the fucking butchery and hell that is current cancer treatment.

No. 157759

What's more likely?
>they don't want to get sued (Denmark's laws do protect the doctors from blame 100%, but I don't know about other places)
>they're wary of taking away a young person's fertility out of actual human concern
>they think every woman should have at least one child

You really think they're so zealous about filling every womb?

No. 157762

File: 1604252572704.png (10.85 KB, 210x260, BBCF6213-A929-444A-AA23-025201…)

I shudder at the convos I had with my ex fiancé about us having kids. Because I was worried about my inability to care for them properly because I lack patience and sympathy and generally dislike children (your child is fugly sorry Rebecca), suddenly I’m going to make a good mother becauseI’m seriously thinking about why I would not be a good mother. No motherfucker, I obviously have anxiety about rearing children and every time I discuss with you I’m child free and can’t handle the stress you would say “oh that’s in the future things can change.” Dude even said he’s glad he’s having kids in his 40s because if he doesn’t feel like playing with them anymore he can just say daddy is old and too tired to play. I would have been stuck with everything which is my nightmare. He never told me why he was dumping me, but I’m pretty sure him being an old scrote and me not willing to have a child right away influenced his decision. True irritation is telling the person you’re dating you don’t want kids, they say ok then a few years later try to indoctrinate you.

No. 157766

If a doctor who refused to do tubals also refused to do any other type of surgery, set broken bones, administer vaccines, or any of the other multitudes of things doctors do that exposes them to a lawsuit risk, you'd have a point. But they don't, and you don't.

No. 157769

Be careful with your sources anon. I looked up that "childless more likely to die from diseases" one and the study population solely consisted of women seeking IVF treatment, meaning they were taking intensive, expensive measures to have a child but ended up unable to have one. They were not "childfree" but "childless," which no doubt caused them stress. Also, only 96 women died (220 men) out of 21,000 couples. So that's ~.002%. That is a minuscule percentage, more scrotes were kicking the bucket, and I doubt this would've been much different in a random sample of people dying over the course of 11 years. Their diseases were likely pre-existing and accidents are accidents.

A consulting psychologist said, "This is a very specific situation of people who are trying to have children - the study's findings cannot be used to generalise across the whole general population." Anyway, there are are also studies that say many mothers are dealing with worse mental health and committing suicide at higher rates during COVID since they are stuck at home caring for a child (and sometime baby daddy) full-time now. It's well known postpartum depression is a thing. Another study says that childfree and child-having individuals are equally happy at the later stages of life. Don't let inconclusive evidence cause unnecessary stress.

No. 157770

> suddenly I’m going to make a good mother because I’m seriously thinking about why I would not be a good mother
Eeew this gives me flashbacks to things my ex would say! After I'd go on a rambling explanation about all the reasons I didn't want to be a mother and how tiring, thankless and horrid it sounded, he'd say, "See baby, the fact you think about all those things and wouldn't go into it unprepared is exactly why you'd made a good mother!" Wtf you absolute retard, no. Being able to think critically about a theoretical scenario does not mean one has the desire or capacity to face it. My reasons for not doing so were clearly expressed in the actual content of what I said, but of course he didn't pay attention to that. Instead he was dazzled by my overall capacity for forethought (which I suppose is an exceedingly rare ability within the scrote community).

Glad you're not with that dumbass anymore.

No. 157774

Not to be a bitch but I'm starting to notice people that have kids young seem more immature?

No. 157775

(that's not my child bitch!)

No. 157779

Judging from your nametag that I'm reading here, it says "Captain Obvious." Is that correct?

No. 157782

It feels weird thinking about how many kids there are from people I know being pregnant or having babies in the last couple years, there’s like an entire classroom of them. I watch my sibling’s kids and they waste so much food, cost so much with the clothing and toys, and everyone with children has a household like this.

Once at college I overheard a woman complaining because it was taking too long for a credit card company to send her a card so she could use it to buy Christmas gifts. She literally had no money. Also at college a professor asked one of my classes how many of us wanted to have kids in the future and only two people raised their hands.

No. 157797

>comparing broken bones to tubal ligation
I don't even know how you managed to do that, but I guess I'll level with you for a moment. Doing things that fix your health or hell, a trauma to the body are different from tying your tubes, and are often a "do or die" situation. While vaccines can be argued on (I'm not anti-vaxx, but it is true that sometimes they cause complications, and they don't know enough about why and how to avoid that), they don't really have an alternative approaches. While you still have a bunch of non-invasive contraceptive options.

You could've at least talked about plastic surgeons for comparison, but those don't really touch your innards, except for the new wave of sexual organ reassignment, which is really really questionable for normal people anyway. I guess you should just become a boy while it lasts.

No. 157799

I guess this is a bit different, but does anyone else feel weird interacting with pregnant women? I think just because pregnancy in general makes me uncomfortable, it's sort of wraps my view of pregnant women, and I actually DO start to see them as an incubator of sorts to distance myself from them mentally. I bumped into a pregnant woman in the drugstore and I apologized but felt like they were almost non-human. I'm pretty sure it's some very deep-seated aversion to pregnancy that I even project on poor strangers.

No. 157800

What the fuck?
No, I see them as people carrying a child you weirdo. I may not want kids myself but I don't look down on people who do, as long as they're fit to be a parent and not some teenage crackhead that got knocked up by accident.

No. 157806

(oh thank god im so happy for you girl)

No. 157808

Honestly yea, it's a mostly me being so scared of hurting them by bumping into them, but I also find pregnancies to be gross, no matter how immature that may be. Doesn't really bother me whenever I see some random preganant lady but I have a very religious neighbor who seems to be always preganant or just given birth, walking funny and she freaks me out at the mailboxes not gonna lie. Still see them as humans, just odd and fragile.

No. 157812

no but i feel weird around them in the sense that if i'm in close proximity with them for too long, i get paranoid that i'll be more likely to get pregnant from being around "pregnant energy" which i know sounds insane but i'm sure i'm not the only one

No. 157813

The one main thing that's keeping me child free atm is that I am shit scared of ripping my taint during childbirth.

No. 157817

Im more scared of ripping my clit…

No. 157820

I already know I don't have the patience and tolerance for handling kids. Being 19 and having no car meant I had to be the resident babysitter for my little cousins. Don't get wrong I love them but spending more than a couple of hours with them drove me nuts. I understand being a parent is hard and my aunts/uncles needed a break from it sometimes but I also didn't pop them out so… Please take them back.

Also I hate the stigma of having kids=maturity. Like couples who talked it out and choose not have kids are being selfish but retarded teenagers who randomly get pregnant are suddenly respected as a normal couple? Organisms with two fucking cells can create life, it's not as amazing of a miracle as most think.

Anyway, there's virtually no chance of me being getting pregnant (lesbian). I haven't really broke the news to my family, esp my grandmother who really wants to see us have kids. I felt really guilty that she may never be able see me have a family, but then I was like I can't rush into a marriage and children just because others want me to do it. Also, one of my cousins has five kids, she can visit them when she wants to see babies.

No. 157825

weird! im already the asperger's riddled beer aunt that enjoys her life, doesn't chase dick cause i dont want that and i would absolutely LOVE to have some MORE travel photos which would mean that i was able to take such photos by doing what i like most in life which is, you guessed it! spend my hard earned money on travelling. i dont hate people that want to have kids, i just despise the way most of you talk down to people that simply dont want to. hope you get better. maybe you are stressed out by all the things that you would want to do and cant cause of the kids you have to take care of?
also >find a good man

No. 157843

I had a friend who tore from clit to asshole when she had her baby. like literally her clit split in half and she had to wipe her ass carefully as to not fuck with the stitches and use like antibacterial shit on it because it was so close to her asshole. no thank you.

No. 157845

File: 1604311134685.png (79.66 KB, 500x475, cringe.png)

The whole discussion ITT and some of the main arguments (can’t travel/have fun/have time for myself) show how deeply engraved traditional gender roles are even among seemingly progressive women and in an "anti scrote environment". If I had children, I would make sure that my partner does at least 50% of the work and that both of us can have their personal space and free time. Of course it differs from a childfree life, but if I imagine myself as a mother, I don’t see a woman that gives up herself for her child. It is a matter of mutual respect and a choice that both parents make. Most people here seem to think that in a parent relationship, the woman will always be at a lazy scrote's mercy without any autonomy. Of course those relationships exist, but it shouldn’t be the standard we apply to our own lives. I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.

I also think the whole "heheee! I can go on holiday and YOU CAN’T!" argument is incredibly dumb. It is possible to go on holiday with or without (your) children. And yes, children cost money, but if possible, you should only choose to have them if you can afford that, anyway. I think there are way more serious and real arguments against pregnancy/childbirth/being a parent than this holiday "argument".

I think it really is better for you to not reproduce, anon.

No. 157850

>The whole discussion ITT and some of the main arguments (can’t travel/have fun/have time for myself) show how deeply engraved traditional gender roles are even among seemingly progressive women and in an "anti scrote environment". If I had children, I would make sure that my partner does at least 50% of the work and that both of us can have their personal space and free time.
If you had a child…that very likely wouldn't be the case either, you're too optimistic. Many young women have great faith in their partner ("He's sooo caring and he loooves kids!") but in the end it's always the same, the woman ends up doing everything.
And if you had a tiny bit more freedom than your average mom then you can bet that people around you will shittalk you behind your back ("Who does she think she is?! So egoistic!"). I witness this all the time, other people and especially women being super bitter about the rare mother who doesn't place herself at the very back.
Maybe you're lucky and become an excpetion but your chances are very, very slim.
>I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.
Being this naive and being so uppity about it is the real cringe.

No. 157851

I don't look down on them morally, I find them gross. I don't know where I even alluded to morals in my original post.

No. 157854

File: 1604315200804.jpg (104.18 KB, 592x814, 1485668932_ss (2017-01-20 at 1…)

>I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.
Yeah, I'm sure every woman that was stuck with a partner that distanced themselves from childcare after the kid was born or left the woman was just a retard that had it coming, and had zero individuality or self-respect. You'll be fine, you're so smart, babe!

No. 157857

It might be naive, but I really hope that society will make progress here. Just like you have seen many cases where the mother had to do everything and the scrote was a disappointment, I have seen the opposite around me. However, it is true that the mothers who are open about it (taking time for themselves, going out without baby & dad, going back to work and having the father do the paternal leave) get a lot of shit. It is depressing. I am glad so see many mothers speaking up on this issue though, trying to fight for acceptance and a different view on parenthood. And I am "uppity" about it because I was trying to bring a more positive and supportive perspective into the discussion instead of constantly fighting about stereotypes and the general hostility from both sides.

I was not trying to say that I am better than others or that the women who suffer as parents are at fault, but that the negative examples ITT are not the only possibility.
Ideally, parenthood is a situation with mutual respect and task sharing. Of course "ideally" unfortunately is not the norm.

No. 157858

i'm the anon you responded to. You must be very young so i wont be a giant bitch and ruin your wishful thinking. i 100% agree with you in this statement:
> it shouldn’t be the standard we apply to our own lives
but sadly that's all wishful thinking and not a reality. even if you find a "good partner and father" chances are you are still gonna do the majority of te parenting. and even worse, the scrote will be praised for "helping" you with his own children. and dont even THINK about breaking up or divorcing him cause that's where you'll be fucked up for good. he will be the fun weekend parent (if you are lucky enough that he actually sticks around) and you'll be the one doing all the real work. im an oldfag and i've witnessed time and time again this kinds of situations, especially with the seamingly "good fathers until momma doesnt want to put out anymore"

No. 157859

You sound naive work-life-balance-chan

No. 157862

>or left the woman

Important point: not only do mothers have to do 100% of the housework when their husbands abandon them, they will also probably have to provide 100% of the financial support. Unless you're independently wealthy enough to hire a lawyer across state and international lines, it is incredibly easy for men to get out of child support. And if you ARE independently wealthy enough, you probably won't win your case.

No. 157874

You seem to have missed this link upthread, so I’ll spoon-feed it to you just like all the wonderful babies you plan to raise (with minimal help from dad): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/05/07/once-the-baby-comes-moms-do-more-dads-do-less-around-the-house
>More than 95 percent of the nearly 200 couples… proclaimed to want egalitarian marriages.
>both the men and women worked about 40 hours a week and spent 15 hours doing housework
>Then they had a baby. Women continued to do 15 hours a week of housework [and] added 22 hours a week of child care. Men picked up 14 hours of child care [but] did 5 fewer hours of housework.
>Plus, the study found that men were doing more of the fun child care – like playing peek a boo and reading, while the women were doing more of the diaper changing and schlepping to child care

You can have the greatest, most equal marriage in the world. And that will all change once you pop out a kid. Go for it, but don’t think even a “good” man is going to put in an equal amount of work.

No. 157895

>If I had children, I would make sure that my partner
Why are you coming into the 'childfree' thread and boring us all with tales of your hypothetical children and plans for them? That's the last thing this thread is here for.

>I think it really is better for you to not reproduce, anon.

Again, read the thread title genius

No. 157897

One of my mother's acquaintances was living and breeding with a guy who lived in his mother's house as her caretaker (except his partner and her daughter did all the elderly care) and refused to get a job because he didn't want to give his ex-wife a penny for raising his 2 kids. And this new woman is working every day to earn money for their living and having 3(!) kids with this waste of space enables his lifestyle. He has 5 kids, and worked like 2 years in his life. Just stop the life simulator now.

No. 157917

He does work so I'll reluctantly give him some credit, but I'm constantly blown away a friend's dad who had 4 kids and left his wife to care for them alone while he went out swanning around with a new, younger girlfriend several states away. He paid child support but it was definitely not enough for a single mother to comfortably survive while caring for four children, even though she also worked full-time. I don't know when she ever slept and how she's not a shell of her former self today. Beyond that three of the kids were boys and all of them absolutely idolized their father for being this cool, adventurous wanderin' man while ignoring their iron-willed mother who actually kept them alive and gave them a relatively normal childhood with attention, schooling, sports and all that while having no time to herself. They were poor as shit but never knew it thanks to her. It enrages me. Thankfully now that they're older the brothers have gained a more realistic perspective of their father and appreciate what their mom did, but I cannot remotely imagine being in her position and just staying quiet while they raved about how awesome that piece of shit was. He barely changed a diaper and now he still gets to have fun family dinners and feel the "glory of fatherhood" as another anon described. She literally never said a word against the father despite what he did. Unbelievable.

No. 157932

I just find that so unimaginable, to be able to just, take your hands off your kids like that (figuratively) and continueing with your life carefree as if you're still single and childfree. Sorry for shitty English.

No. 157941

Spend some more time with women who have had children, anon.

The ones I know have very helpful husbands, but all of them have decided to leave work and become stay-at-home moms because someone has to. It's too challenging otherwise.

Because of this, the childcare isn't split 50%. They will be set back in their careers. In some cases, they may never reach their careers at all.

I know one stay-at-home father and it's only because he was a photographer who couldn't support a family on his salary.

No. 157949

I became pretty sure I don't want children after reaching adulthood. There are many reasons for it. I come from a fucked up family and I'm always scared that I'd get the "parenting skills" from my mother regardless of how hard I tried not to, and my family past is mostly the biggest reason. My grandma, my mother and me had suicide attempts in teenagehood, and I was also terrified of the thought of giving birth to a daughter that would have the same issues. Also me and my partner both struggled with being depressed, and it's widely known that depression can be hereditary. Other reasons as to are my past struggles with ED, which would probably hit me with an enormous force since I am a person that tends to gain weight faster, I have terrible back problems already, and I am also very career focused, to the point of really wanting to achieve something big in that path.
I was never much of a family person, and seeing my mother with her 3 small kids made me realize how fucking draining that is. Basically you have 0 time (even with one kid) for yourself until they reach primary school, and I value time for myself a lot. I don't hold any disdain for people with children, but seeing some moms being so preoccupied with their kids to the point that they see them as god's gift to earth and can't shut the fuck up about them is really annoying, and I would rather drown in a cesspool than become a person like that, completely devoid any other interests than their children.
Fortunately my partner fully supports and even agrees with my decision, but his mother is really trying to pry her way into this topic with her usual bullshit like 'children r da best!!! nothing is better that chirren!! how come you have other hobbies and interests???' and also saying stupid shit about christian weddings and baptism when we are both strong atheists.
Fuck people who borderline demonize the concept of being childless and try to indoctrinate you on how to live. If you don't want kids, don't try to change it just because someone can't understand it. Have a nice day girls.

No. 157975

Yeah, it really doesn't make any sense to me either. He literally abandoned them except to occasionally see them during vacations years later. Now he acts like he did nothing wrong, the relationship just "didn't work out" so of course his only option was the leave (in his mind). Mothers basically never get the chance to just "walk away" like that and are left doing the duties of two by themselves. It disgusts me.

No. 157988

iirc my parents raised me 50/50 since their work hours are lesser than average and they still didn't have time to do shit, a kid is way more work than you imagine, they demand ALOT of time, I had to be picked up from school, dropped at extracurriculars, needed time for help my homework, make me food, clean my room, toys and clothes when I was too young to do chores, and all of that was basic shit, my parents were lucky if they had a free weekend and could go to a child-appropiate location with me like a park.

No. 157995

This. Tbh, it was spending time with women who have children that made me pretty sure I don't want any.

I have a big family and a decent sized friend group of women around my age. They'll frequently brag about how great their husband is because he watched the kids while she made dinner, or because he took them to the park so she can get 2 hours alone (while she cleans). I used to mind my cousin's kids a lot and it's bizarre going over to their house. He's always sitting down playing on his phone while the kids run around and she's cooking/cleaning, yet she's always talking about how wonderful and amazing he is.

And yes, I know, "you can't know their relationship, you're not seeing the whole picture, anon," that's true, it's not my place, but it's kinda hard to not notice it.

I don't think all these men are necessarily bad people, but the bar is ridiculously low for fathers. I don't hear any of these guys bragging about how great their wife is because she does 90% of the housework, but be damn sure they'll complain as soon as she slips up and forgets something. Motherhood isn't praised or rewarded, it's expected. Men are all basically Father of the Year if they don't run away, change their name, and move to a remote tropical island to avoid child support.

No. 158020

>they demand ALOT of time, I had to be picked up from school, dropped at extracurriculars, needed time for help my homework, make me food, clean my room, toys and clothes when I was too young to do chores
Omg, this. I had amazing parents but they were TOO good to me tbh, it was to their own detriment. My memories of childhood are one of the biggest reasons I don't want kids because imagine if I got a kid like me?

It's crazy how much time my parents spent chauffeuring me around to (and forking out a tonne of money for) a variety of sports, music lessons, birthday parties, and dance concerts, and I would get bored and quit most extra curriculars I tried/bitch if I was forced to go. They were always helping me with my school work, from building dioramas for projects as a kid to frantically finishing my final art project at the last minute, all the random costumes and food and presentations I needed to bring in for school. And then obviously the normal housework and cooking on top of that. I was always stressed out of my mind as a kid but imagine being the parent who has to facilitate all that shit AND deal with their grumpy ass child? I distinctly remember my mum being overwhelmed and frustrated most of the time because of it. The worst part is I was sooo ungrateful, never helped around the house, always wanted them to buy me things, etc, it took me until adulthood to realise how awful it must have been for them. Even now as an adult I constantly need their help and advice, thank fuck they love me lmao. And I assume that is why they have never ever encouraged me to have kids, because they know a spoiled brat like me wouldn't cope like they did and they want me to be happy.

No. 158056

My memory of childhood is quite the opposite of this but equally has put me off having kids. Neither of my parents drove. I walked to and from school alone. When I started secondary school that school was really far away and I spent a stupid amount of time by myself getting to and from the school every day. I never joined any sports or extra classes because I had no way of getting there and my parents wouldn't pay for any activities. Homework was done alone. My parents weren't divorced and my mom was a stay at home mom so I don't know why I spent so much time alone. My dad wanted everyone to leave him alone on his days off.

I don't want to repeat that style of parenting but seeing as I've had therapy for 'childhood neglect' (their words, not mine) I'm aware that neglected kids grow up to be a little lacking in areas. I already hate that I can't display love normally in romantic relationships.

No. 158059

I am starting studies in in a new field in my early 30ies. There are women my age with small children and seeing how they struggle to balance their lives (even when married to men) confirmed to me that being without kids is the best.

No. 158076

I see most of you don't have children because reasons. This gives the impression that having children is still your default, that you don't fulfil because this or that. Which is perfectly fine, a rational decision.
But I've always personally felt that being CF is my default, I don't need any reasons NOT to have children, not a single one. My deafault is not having them. Instead I would need a very very very strong reason TO have children, I just haven't found one and am not interested in finding it.

I hope I explained the nuance well. Anyone else like me?

No. 158082

Yeah, you put into words how I feel aswell.

No. 158083

I think for some there is a small amount of desire there so that's why the reasons are important to those women. I always knew I wouldn't have kids. It simply came down to having no strong desire to be selfless or in a carer role. As I got older though I do have to admit that the desire is there every once in a blue moon but it's a fleeting thought of 'what if'

So now that I have those fleeting moments I find that my list of reasons is important to me. I didn't need that list til I was already in my thirties and settled in as a homeowner etc. I have a similar list of reasons why getting a dog wouldn't realistically suit me lol. Just in case I get tempted to on impulse get a pet.

No. 158086


Same for me. Even as a little kid I never imagined myself becoming a mother. There are definitely lots of logical reasons I shouldn't have kids if I think about it, but like at the end of the day I've just never wanted them and I feel strongly that I never will.

No. 158087

That doesn't make your case any better.

No. 158093

>Of course "ideally" unfortunately is not the norm
So you agree with us then?

No. 158110

>Even as a little kid I never imagined myself becoming a mother.
Same here. I remember as a child, adults would ask me and other kids what we'd wanna become when we grew up, and other girls would always say they'd wanna become a mom. And I remember even back then thinking "Why would you wanna become a mom?".

No. 158181

For sure, I just don't want them and never have. My reason for reasons is because people have demanded them of me all my life stating that simply not wanting kids wasn't enough, so I had to find ways to explain the innate disgust I felt at the thought of becoming a mother.

I always thought this was creepy in hindsight. Like, it's considered normal for a child that is not yet capable of reproducing to want offspring, when they have an extremely limited concept of what that actually entails, and no insight as to how one reaches that state of being. At first it seems harmless, like how someone might dream of being an astronaut, yet when they realize how much studying, expense and outright luck it requires they move on. But for many women, it seems their outlook never expands past that original concept (except for knowing they need a scrote). I've read so many stories of regretful parents saying, "Yeah, I just thought it was normal for girls to want kids so I always felt that way too and didn't realize you could opt out."

That kind of indoctrination at such a young age, and beyond that, the way society reinforces the rose-colored view of parenthood for so long afterwards, is pretty terrifying to me.

No. 158185

My family likes to tell me how I said that I hated children when I was 4. In a way it's hilarious when a child says that, but my opinion of them hasn't changed. I also didn't play with dolls that looked like babies. Nowadays I don't hate children, but I don't care for them, interact with them or anything else. I created my own little family with my husband and our dog.

No. 158265

I think this is just because women are expected to be mothers. I never wanted children or imagined myself as a mother, but all I heard growing up was "you'll change your mind one day anon" and all the usual family pressure. The few women in my family who don't have kids or are unmarried are treated like they have some kind of defect.

No. 158266

>I created my own little family with my husband and our dog

No. 158275

I am so fucking afraid of pregnancy/becoming pregnant and giving birth that I just want the doctors to completely get rid of my uterus. I just want to have sex with my bf and bot think about the dangers of maybe getting pregnant despite using bc. I think if I ever accidentally become pregnant I will just kill myself. Nothing more disgusting than having an alien planting itself inside you and stealing everything you like in your life.

No. 158288

i have tokophobia and i know this feeling all too well. i know abortion is an option if it ever happened, but i'd be so devastated that i'd probably off myself first. i had a scare a while back and i was fully prepared to kill myself until i saw that i tested negative

No. 158293

I've been having daydreams about raising a baby with my ex. But the reasons for not having a baby are immortal and don't change regardless of how i feel. Just need to be mindful and steer myself away from these thoughts

No. 158303

Just make your bf get a vasectomy/ you get tubes removed.

No. 158305

abortion is a thing anon. whether legal or not in your country, it's always an option if you do your research
> Nothing more disgusting than having an alien planting itself inside you and stealing everything you like in your life.
based, whenever i said babies are just human parasites i get the weirdests looks… im not saying it to be edgy, it's just the objective truth: a separate organism growing and feeding off of another living thing. how is that not a parasite?

No. 158312

NTA Getting your tubes tied isn't guaranteed and most doctors won't do it, there's also age restrictions.

No. 158316

I found this funny and then did some research because you left me wondering, apparently there are tons of reasons why a baby can't be a parasite, here are a few: Parasites are from a different species than their host, come from an outside source, are generally harmful for the host, make direct contact with the host's living tissue (A fetus lives in the placenta and is fed by the umbilical cord, both are from fetal tissues) and they usually stay for life inside their host

No. 158319

A fetus lives in the amniotic sac, but I get what you're trying to say. The placenta acts as a sort of filtration unit.

No. 158320

technicalities!!! scrotes are a different species and an outside source (you need their dna to make the baby). they are harmful cause they wreck your life and stay on your life forever (granted not inside but around)
it's a joke, dont shoot me, kek

No. 158324

>are generally harmful for the host

This is a characteristic of fetuses.

No. 158325

> come from an outside source
I know we're getting nitpicky but I count sperm entering my body as an outside source.

I went through years of having UTIs and general irritation whenever I was sexually active. When I'm single I can masturbate as much as I like without any issues and I've had relationships with women where again the issue didn't arise. I have some weird sensitivity to sperm/the mixng of fluids that happens during straight sex so that might be why I personally see it as so foreign and unwelcome lol

No. 158342

Not thaat much, parasites literally drain their host's health and life
Lmao I see it tho
Anyways, anyone can hate babies and call them parasites or whatever, just know that scientifically, they aren't

No. 158345

People say that calling men parasites is also "unscientific" and yet it's true. Actually, it depends whether the scientist is honest and based or not:
>According to a well-known UK professor of genetics, Steve Jones, men, biologically and behaviourally, are parasites

No. 158348

biology major fun fact: sperm is actually considered as a threat by the body and is "killed" by white blood cells

impregnation fetishists getting btfo'd

No. 158353

My fave artist used to make really dark art about parasites, insect-like things and all sorts of deformities. I had no idea why I was so drawn to it because sex and gross shit isn't my usual thing… When I bought a book on him it explained that his feelings around wanting women sexually but the fear of getting a woman pregnant was what was behind an awful lot of the art.

He spent decades producing pieces that were both sexual and grotesque and I think it's interesting to see a man was tapping into that same place of fear. On the surface it looks like it's being gross or sexual just for the hell of it but I get why it resonated with me now. Very parasite heavy imagery.

He died a few years ago, old and while he had a long term partner and the means to have kids, he was of course childless.

No. 158358

based lesbian white blood cells

No. 158359

Isn't vaginal discharge naturally acidic enough to kill sperm, too?

No. 158370

It definitely depends on where you live, but in most first world countries it's actually a lot more straightforward than many people make it out to be. You hear all the horror stories about women not being taken seriously but not about the ones where everything goes smoothly. Tubal ligations are very effective these days (over 99%) if you're getting it done with cauterization, but if you're concerned request a bilateral salpingectomy instead so the tubes are completely removed. (source: had bisalp done in U.S.)

No. 158373

Nta but I live in P*land and tubal ligation is illegal here. A doctor can face up to 10 years in prison for performing it. And abortion is legal only in cases of rape and incest or when the woman's life is at risk. I hate it here.

No. 158374

Nta but where I live (firstworld eur) you can't get it done as a woman…if you don't already have 2/3 kids. They will not perform it on a childess woman full stop. Even if you have kids they usually want you to be 35 aswell first.

Meanwhile my ex paid 200 quid and got himself a vasectomy with the same ease that you'd book in for a tooth flling. No questions asked. He has one previous kid, not that they even wanted to know that.

No. 158383

I've heard as much, it's been horrible seeing that Polish women are still unable to receive even the most basic rights over their bodies. I can't imagine having that fear in the back of my mind and I'm sorry you're having to deal with it directly anon.

I have heard of restrictions like this where it's "xx age or y kids" as if all women should be required to fulfill a societal duty to reproduce and continue the species regardless of our wants and genetics in an already overpopulated world. It's ridiculous.

In any case, my intent wasn't to minimize the difficulties some anons might face. I have just heard from quite a few women in places like the US, UK, Australia, Canada and so on worrying about being turned down when the opportunity is still legally there, and it's not worth wasting time feeling nervous when you could be looking for a good doc instead. Hell in Mexico tubals are legal and cheap so if someone is running into issues in NA and really wants one they might even consider a sterilization vacation.

No. 158403

I was going to suggest a sterilization vacation too. If your country really won't do the procedure and you really want it, nothing's stopping you from visiting a country that will.

Polanon I wonder, if you had the procedure done elsewhere and came back home, would you be persecuted if your doctor found out later? Lets say you had to have an unrelated laparoscopy years later and the doctor could tell your tubes have been tampered with.

No. 158448

Who is this artist? I'd like to check his art out.

No. 158505

Yes, although sperm cells are ejaculated with seminal plasma, which has an alkaline pH and counteracts the vaginal acidity

No. 158506

No. 158509

not that anon, but there have been many warnings in the polish feminist circles about pro-life people hiding behind phone numbers that were advertised for women who needed abortions, also there were some rumours about government planning to hunt women who had an abortion

still doctors here usually don't give a single shit about anything, so realistically I doubt that even with the current political climate they would've tried to persecute women after the procedure

No. 158620

File: 1604679465942.jpg (33.47 KB, 320x488, hr-giger-birth-machine_a-G-968…)

Are you talking about H.R Giger? If so yeah, a ton of his work is very phallic and had a lot of bizarre sexual themes and not in a glorifying way Beyond doing the design for the alien it seems he presented pregnancy it a very body-horror way, even as a man. I rewatched Alien recently and the whole movie can be taken as an allegory for unwanted pregnancy.

No. 158666

CF anons, what’s your take on marriage free life? I feel like it’s a choice more readily available to us which is why I ask, other than feeling personally conflicted and undecided about it.

No. 158671

I don't want to get married, it's a financial liability and seems like too much effort in general. Plus, honestly, I just don't want to live with a guy. I like my space and privacy. But admittedly it's a softer stance than being CF, I'd be willing to let someone change my mind. I just doubt I'll meet a guy who could.

No. 158677

I live by three rules, child free, marriage free and moving in free. Kinda want to add dating free on that list as well, but I'm not sure yet.

No. 158685

Tried marriage once, can't say there was any point. Divorce was surprisingly expensive (>$600), took tons of time and paperwork, and it was an all-around pain in the ass. And this was with an ex who was totally on board. I can't imagine if it had been more contentious. Saw people who'd been coming to the court for over a year because their former partner kept dragging it out so they could continue mooching benefits off of them. What misery. Sure if everything works out you get a few legal benefits, but not worth the potential drawbacks imo. You can still have a ceremony with all the bells and whistles if you like, but don't trap yourself in the legalities.

No. 158689

This is what the hell people rushing to get married never think about, especially the ones doing it with a foreign person or abroad. Shit costs money even when you are on the best terms, I almost wish there was some test you had to take before tying the knot to see if these people know wtf they are getting themselves into. No thank you.

No. 158711

I had to get married so I could stay with my ex in his country (visa marriage). As soon as we did it it's like a switch flipped in his head and he decided he could now stop trying and let himself go. I had to be with that clown for five years. Never fucking doing it again, it's not worth it.
I do have a boyfriend right now but it's not something I plan to maintain in the long run, just until I get bored of him.

No. 158713

I'm not interested in getting married either. It carries no benefit for me, just risk.

No. 158730

I'm not explicitly against marriage, I just don't really see the point of it. If I find someone I want to say with long term I'd probably opt for registered partnership instead, but I'd have to research it more to be sure.

> I just don't want to live with a guy.
This. My mom is basically my father's maid (she'll even call herself his slave in heated arguments) and I don't want that for myself. I don't want to be some guy's live-in maid or mommy. Now I didn't grow up in healthy household, so this situation is undoubtly not comparable to anyone in a healthy relationship with a guy with good mental health and a good background, but still. I even see it when I'm around my married nieces or female friends. When we're over with a group of friends or familymembers it's always the women doing all the work (cooking, cleaning up, serving coffee etc.) while the men sit on their asses drinking a beer, even though all of them work full-time. I'm not from some conservative country and culture where women are expected to be in the kitchen and nothing else, so you'd think the divide of work at home would be more equal, but it doesn't seem to be like that at all. I don't know if it's out of sheer laziness from men/the don't care or if women simply have higher standards but I just don't want that for myself.

No. 158735

I'm conflicted. On one hand, I really do not want to get married because the status of a "married woman" doesn't fit me one bit, I consider myself too free spirited and unconventional for that. Since we're not having kids there's even less point in doing it. I wish there were alternatives like domestic partnerships or civil unions, but none of that is available in my country. You either get married or you're just two strangers in the eyes of the law. And that's precisely the reason I've been wanting to get married lately, I've been living with my partner for 10 years and we're solid. As far as I'm concerned he's my family, not my actual blood relatives.

No. 158781

I have a partner that I love and would like to marry him, but if we broke up then I'd just go full relationship free lesbo

No. 158998

Sort of a tangent from childfreeness, but don't know where else it fits.

I got pretty mad yesterday because an older relative of mine started talking about how women today won't even give birth because they're vain and don't want their bodies to change, but no one even really agreed with him on it fortunately. But holy hell, even if some woman is only scared for her body getting ruined (and stretchmarks are not even close to the worst things you can come out with from pregnancy, closing at DEATH), how would a man even relate? No one expects them to go through basically "body horror" (no wonder pregnancy is so often in horror movies) to pass their genes along. No man in history died in child delivery. They still lose often ruin their shape and skin by 35 even though their biology doesn't go through something as drastic as pregnancy. Why do modern everyday men even think they should get a say in ANYTHING relating to female reproduction?

No. 159009

Both of my grandmothers had a handful of live births and a handful of still births. They have no real idea why those babies didn't survive but it was common enough not that long ago to go through pregnancy and childbirth and have a stillborn baby at the end of it with no answers.. that horrifies me.

Even when I was in college a few years ago a girl I wasn't too close to had an unexpected pregnancy but she was excited about the baby anyway and planning to make it work. Her bf was supportive. She had just lost her mother so she thought the timing of the pregnancy was significant. I wasn't close enough to her to know all the details but she was very heavily pregnant when she lost the baby and had to give birth to it. Her first time giving birth… Men can fuck off thinking the decision not to carry child is about vanity. It's always a risk. It can pay off and have a beautiful result.. but we're taking a gamble each time.

It did cross my mind that this girl I knew had a post pregnancy body and no baby and I don't think that's vain, I just tried to imagine what it feels like to have that reminder of what you lost. People say that as soon as you hold the baby you forget all the pain of childbirth instantly. But what about those not-so-lucky mothers. Where's their consolation for going through that?

No. 159024

I’ve never had the desire to have kids but always trying to look for reasons to have them- I’m not really sure why, maybe because having kids is the norm.

Except I am constantly just finding more reasons NOT to have them. I honestly can’t think of a single good reason to get pregnant.

No. 159026

Only reason for me would be to see what a baby produced by me and my boyfriend would look like, and even then, I really don't care. Nothing could convince me to have one. Not saying there aren't any positives for others, but there are none for me and I am happy with that.

No. 159029

A lot of my peers would put me off having kids seeing how miserable they are. I've known some to smoke heavily every day and drink on occasion through their pregnancy. Then when the kids is born they don't adjust their lifestyles and get bitter when their kid starts acting out and misbehaving. A lot of people have kids it seems out of sheer boredom or not having any other goals in life than 'have a family'. But then they get their family and don't want to change for the better for their offspring. It's absolutely sickening. The amount of my peers that openly take drugs in front of their young kids too is ridiculous. People really do think children are little retards and treat them as such but then also get mad when they're kid isn't showing signs of being the next Einstein. Like I still have memories from early childhood and I'm in my 30s.i thought my parents were awful for having verbal shouting matches before finally separating thankfully, but I've been at friends houses and they're having full on physical domestics in front of their kids. Breaking furniture, punching holes in the walls in anger. If their parents were doing that shit while they were growing up they'd be acting like life's biggest victims. I've had a 4 year old tell me about mummy and daddy fighting and hitting each other. Like I never saw my parents hit each other but I have been told by my mum it happened on rare occasions but away from the kids and that's horrible too, but like I see my friends having domestics and no shame. It's so fucking gross

No. 159050

Idk if I'm 'marriage-free.'

I don't really see the point to getting married, so I'm not pushing for it to happen one way or the other. My boyfriend really seems to want us to get married one day.

He's serious boyfriend #3 after many non-serious boyfriends. So I'll have to see if I can make it past the 3 year mark first. I do love him, but I don't have any fairy tale ideas about what a marriage would be like. To me it's just a way of saying, "Okay we are choosing to be each other's family now."

Also none of that wedding bullshit. He loves talking about who his groomsmen would be and I'm like, "This is kinda silly like choosing who will be in your homecoming group. I've literally never even met any of these people in the 1+ year we've been dating because you don't hang out with them. And we're almost 30."

Like he's lived with girlfriends before. My grandparents still just call every bf they meet by the first bf of mine they ever met lmfao. We're experienced adults who have been independent for some time, this isn't some weird coming of age thing where we leave our families, start a family, etc.

I understand their function when girls were literally taken from their families and it was probably the last time they would see them- that's just (luckily) not the case in our culture.

No. 159774

Single woman in my 30s, childfree with plans to stay childfree. I bought a small townhouse a couple years ago and I can't get over how many people have pestered me with
>You should get a dog
>Why don't you get yourself a dog
>Are you not lonely in that house all by yourself
>A dog would be good for you
>How about a cat
I know some people without children do the whole thing of raising pets and that's cool if that's your thing. I don't want pets. I don't have a garden for a dog. I'm not dying of loneliness after I chose to buy a house by myself. There is no void in my life that I'm looking to fill.

If I had a bf or if I were a man living alone I wouldn't get this shit. Stop imagining my life is empty if I don't have an animal or baby to dote on or dedicate myself to. I don't want the responsibility of either. That's why I've made the choices I've made.

No. 159775

That's why I love big cities, you're anonymous in a crowd of other anons, I would be stressed out living in a small town where everybody knows each other.

No. 159786

I know someone personally that basically only had a child because her husband was rich and she wanted "relationship glue" to make sure she never looses him.

Their relationship is basically her being pampered and taken care of while he does all the income and house work.

I see a lot of "glue babies" where either the man or the woman will be the driving encouraging force in having a child just to put a lock on the relationship rather than it being a mutual decision.

No. 159800

She’s really lucky it worked out that way. Every time I’ve seen a couple say, “Hey we have problems, you know what would fix that and bring us closer together? Babies!” They’re then divorced within the next year or so. But it seems like there weren’t any big issues in her relationship to start at least. Sad for the kid though, to just be an insurance plan/bargaining chip.

No. 159802

>Are you not lonely in that house all by yourself
kek yeah I often see people say shit like
>omg but can you imagine… going home to an empty apartment at night? So depressing, so lonely!!
to scare people into getting married/having kids and I'm just like lmao that's the fucking dream though? Getting back to an empty place is the best feeling. Time to chill and eat with nobody to answer to.

No. 159817

>Are you not lonely in that house all by yourself

Finally I will be able to exist without being poked at, bothered, and judged 24/7. The horror! Kek.
I can't wait until I have a safe place only for myself, not having to clean or care after others bc it's expected, not having to put on clothes or keep in mind other people when I decorate or cook or buy shit.

No. 159821

>she wanted "relationship glue" to make sure she never looses him

Someone should go tell my deadbeat shithead father that he was glued to my mom. And also that he still owes us child support.

No. 159827

File: 1605413207387.jpg (57.22 KB, 396x400, big-eyed-girl-the-wanderer-wya…)

I plan on staying child free and marriage free. No pets either, I like being alone without responsibility aside from the basics. I do however plan on nurturing myself, I had an abnormal childhood. I want to relive it as an adult and find myself. There is no room for anybody else, but me. My time, my heart, and body belongs to me only. I deserve to be one who makes me happy.

No. 159831

Love your attitude tbh I'm striving for something similar although it's less about my childhood and more about me just wanting my life to revolve around me

No. 159833

I never understood what it meant to love myself or why I would do such a thing until this past year. It took a terrible relationship where the guy asked me to "give him a child" (as if it were something to be purchased and gifted away, even though I said I never wanted them) and being told that living by myself sounded miserable and lonely. When he said that, I felt enraged on my own behalf. I wanted to defend myself against people like him, where before I thought I deserved to be hurt. Not anymore. I have every right to be happy, and I can make myself happy. People like him are the pathetic ones for needing to try and tear me down to feel better about themselves. Despite their attempts, the loneliness they carry in their hearts will never be healed by others.

No. 175389

I am so pissed right now. A friend's friend has been married to his wife for over 5 years and she was on the fence about having kids, leaning towards no. This dude begged and wheedled and told her how awesome and fulfilling it was going to be until she gave in. She pops out a kid and then months later they're already fighting about who's doing more childcare (spoiler: it was her). Then even further down the line he's dealing with anxiety and intense suicidal thoughts to the point it gets him in trouble at work all over the kid situation. Fucking WOW. I don't even know this woman but I feel so sorry for her. Imagine enduring 9 months of hormonal insanity, ballooning into a whale, the trauma and strain of childbirth, finally having the kid, and then the scrote who fucking pleaded with you to have his child mentally checks out and now you essentially have two children you need to care for full-time while also holding down a job. This and worse happen to women constantly. Scrotes talk about women "baby trapping" them but they do that exact thing to us all the goddamn time and have the absolute audacity to waltz out on their spawn and the "love of their life" literally or mentally whenever the fuck it doesn't suit them. Where the woman would be considered an evil mother and defective woman if she did the same. I hate men, I fucking hate them. So incredibly relieved I had myself medically sterilized and will never have to deal with this shit.

No. 175403

JFC I hate men like that

No. 175412

I feel so bad for her, I can't imagine how exhausted she must be at this point. I hope her scrote can grow some fucking balls and realize what he's doing. Some men are so immature it's crazy

No. 175416

Is anyone else pissed how Biden decided to give stimulus checks for families just because they have kids? wtf???

No. 175417

No, it would be hypocritical of me. I might not be CF if parents had more financial support considering the costs are a main deterrent for me.

No. 175423

Heard a lot of stories about women in their 30s suddenly getting a strong biological urge to have children and I'm really scared that the same thing will happen to me.

Also, aside from >>156678, have any of you told your parents of your wish to remain childless? How did they react?

No. 175424

There is no such thing as a biological urge to have children. There is a biological urge to have sex, and a biological urge to care for children. The urge to have children does not exist since all other animals lack the ability to envision and plan the future, instincts work only on things happening in the present moment (like wanting to have sex and wanting to care for the young once they're already born). Envisioning having children in the future is not something animals can do at all, apart from us. So such an urge is not possible to exist. And it isn't needed so it didn't evolve, the combination of the two existing urges is enough to propagate the species.

No. 175425

Samefag, I also say this as someone who past their thirties, there is no biological urge. It's total bullshit. It's all about what you want and plan for.

No. 175426

>The urge to have children does not exist since all other animals lack the ability to envision and plan the future
1. Squirrels gather acorns to prepare for hibernation
2. Even if you pretend that your statement is true, you literally pointed out a trait where humans are unique from animals. Humans demonstrably can plan for the future.

Brainlet post of the day.

No. 175427

1. That's simple collecting, and does not contain any cause-effect higher processing like planning children would (cause sex -> effect kids) of which animals are incapable
2) Planning is not instinct, I'm saying the instinct doesn't exist, we do plan, that was the whole point I was making

No. 175428

How can use something that doesn't apply to humans, to make a point about humans? Are you mentally impaired?

No. 175429

Excuse me?

No. 175430

How can you*

No. 175431

It still doesn't make sense…

No. 175432

Refer to the bit that I greentexted earlier. I'm at a loss on how to break it down any further for you.

No. 175433

We have evolved from other animals. We're talking about urges/instinct, which had to come from somewhere evolutionarily. This supposed instinct had nowhere to come from. It doesn't exist.

No. 175434

Might not be a direct answer to your question but your post reminded me of this article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393178

tl;dr in the wake of covid, employees with children are given extra time off for parenting while the childless employees are asked to pick up the slack

The comments really made my blood boil. They've somehow convinced themselves that by having kids they've made a noble sacrifice for the greater good of human civilization and us childless plebeians ought to be grateful for their selfless contributions.

No. 175436

Not american, but I don't know why you would be. Kids cost money.

No. 175438

I told my parents. Well, only one is still alive but I got the usual responses of you'll change your mind etc.. but they not to argue with me so there's that.

I just wish people my age would stop looking at me like I have 3 heads when I say I don't want kids.

No. 175443

I'm closer to 30 than 20, and while it's nothing like the overexaggerated baby-fever in tales and movies (like wanting to sniff stranger's babies), I'm way more chill on being childfree than I was in my early twenties. Back then I was rejecting the absolute idea of being a mother, looking down on mothers and looking for justifications and like-minded people way harder, now there are days when I can visualize an alternative-reality me with a child and nice husband, but I'm not feeling the urge to have them this moment, year or even in my 5-year plan. Younger childfree people or ones that think it's the core of their identity will try to fight everyone who are "pro-child" instead of just laughing it off or just saying that we might be abnormal, and that's ok.

I never told my parents though. They'd flip their shit and tell me I'm naive and stupid because they really want grandchildren and I'm an only child. They'll casually talk about how the apartment I'm buying (single bedroom) will be unsuitable after my kid becomes school age, even though I never in my life once said anything about starting a family (or had serious relationships with men), but since it's the "norm", I will have one, there's no doubt in their mind. And I don't want to get into a screaming match about it.

No. 175444

My family are aware I won't be having children and accept it. I got a bit of push back at first (the "Oh your aunt didn't want kids and now look at her she loves her daughters" kind) but they've come to accept it as a fact. My sibling cannot have children for medical reasons and thankfully not even that discovery has caused pressure on me to have them again. I am very lucky to have a family that's fine with it and it probably helps that I'm lesbian so there's no way to guilt me by saying I might end up pregnant by a partner accidentally and keep the baby.

No. 175449

My ex kept begging me to have a kid with him. He stealthed me twice and I took the morning after pill,he was a fucking psycho.

No. 175486

File: 1615913998370.jpg (119.86 KB, 800x450, visible.jpg)

I think it may be happening to me right now and I'm almost 26. I was never interested in anything children-related. I wasn't even interested in dating men until I was 25, so maybe I was just behind others in emotional development because of my autism, idk (of course I'm not saying not wanting children = emotional immaturity, there's a lot of emotionally immature parents who shouldn't have had chidlren, and emotionally mature people who just aren't interested in kids etc., it's just in my case I'm realizing things about myself later than most people, I thought I'm asexual or a lesbian because I wasn't interested in pursuing sexual relationships with men until now etc.). I still find very little children gross or just funny, but I know that eventually they move on from their ugly phase and they turn into people you're actually able to communicate with. They don't stay like this forever, thank god. And I don't feel desperate or anything, I just had this thought that if I could actually find a reliable, stable and emotionally mature man who makes me feel safe and accepted, I wouldn't mind having a family. My main fear is that men are shit and that observation of mine hasn't changed. There's literally one man I know of I could call a good husband and father and when I think about him, it activates this "need" in me. I feel "I want this", it makes me feel warm inside. But then I think about all the other fathers/husbands who are shit and that "need" disappears. I don't know how lucky you must be to find a guy who's not only attractive in your eyes but also worth having a family with.
There's also the fear that because I'm an autismo I wouldn't be able to show enough emotions to a baby. I don't think I'm expressive enought and I know that seeing an emotionless face of a primary caregiver can cause distress to a little child. It doesn't help I was neglected as a kid and I didn't have any reliable adults in my life. So yeah, even though I'm not completely against having children anymore, my fear of shitty men and my inability to be a good parent is what's stopping me. Though I think that if I met the right person I could learn to be more emotionally responsive and open. So it all comes down to the fear of shitty men. I never dated men, only women, so I wouldn't even know where and how to start. If men can screw experienced women over, what chances do I have?

No. 175494

I never experienced baby fever, but similar experiences to >>175443. Now that I am 30, having a child is a lot more conceivable to me. It is nothing I really wish for, but I am pretty sure I would be capable of giving birth and raising a child. I feel less panic and repulsion by the thought of it. I think it is because I feel more like an actual adult now and people around me are starting their families whereas before most of my input were childfree forums or unrealistic (romantic) portrayals of parenthood in the media.

No. 175495

I've turned 30 recently and I had no urges before and neither do I have them now. I don't particularly like or hate kids. I do hate people… well, the society for making motherhood a core value and something that is intrisic to women. It gets tiring listening to "you'll change your mind" and some other baby propaganda. But then again, I'm a nihilist and antinatalist. Actually forcing someone into this world without their consent seems selfish. I'm not suicidal but I wish I wasn't born so I couldn't possibly imagine doing the same thing to a hypothetical child. And I also agree with the anon before that there's no such thing as the biological clock, it's mostly peer pressure and seeing others around you having kids so you don't want to be left out of this adult capstone.

No. 175503

I have never had the urge to have children of my own but I am rather motherly towards ones that aren’t mine. I think because I am able to channel it elsewhere is what keeps me from the dreaded baby fever. Even if I were to catch it I think I would be ok. The thought of having a parasite live inside of me for an extended period of time and then permanently invading my personal space after makes me ill. So I will just stick to the short bursts of being around children that aren’t mine but I still get to dote on.

No. 175505

>Actually forcing someone into this world without their consent seems selfish. I'm not suicidal but I wish I wasn't born so I couldn't possibly imagine doing the same thing to a hypothetical child.
Same. I not only have no want for a child nor motherhood, but actively think forcing life onto someone is philosophically unconscionable.

No. 175507

This is a good way of putting what I've been feeling into words myself. I recently turned thirty and I don't want my life to change so I'm not dying to have a baby by next week but I'm aware that it of
it happened then I would be okay. I don't even have a financial security I just have my shit together enough to know I would handle it. It's a small change but also a big one.

No. 175513

It's worse hearing this while you're still mourning your old dog's death.

No. 175519

Jesus that’s horrifying anon. I’m so sorry you went though that and I’m glad you didn’t end up having to do anything more extreme than the morning after pill. What a fucking evil person.

No. 175520

Nope. After I turned 30 I was overjoyed to immediately schedule my bisalp without getting bingoed and condescended to by doctors. I knew I didn’t want kids of my own ever since I was a kid myself and that has never wavered in the slightest, even when a shitty ex tried to pressure me into it.

No. 175530

How did your bisalp go? I'm in the UK and the NHS wont touch me, so I am having to pay for it myself. I've found a private hospital that will do it but obviously with corona, they said they can't schedule it until the beds are free. I haven't even had my consult yet, but I am so excited. It's all I have dreamed of, then people can finally stop asking me.

No. 175542

I'm sorry to hear about NHS, even with as crappy as our insurance is here in Burgerland they actually covered mine since it was "preventative" family planning (which meant less cost for them than if I got pregnant). Congrats on finding a hospital and taking the first steps though! The surgery itself went great. The worst part was honestly having to take magnesium citrate the night before which is designed to make you shit your brains out. Was in and out of the bathroom for several hours haha. But the next day there was just a lot of waiting as the team prepped things for me, then once I got in the operating room I was out really quick. They apparently intubated me but my throat was only vaguely scratchy afterwards, and it was the best recovery of any surgery I've done. I had little to no pain along my pelvis, the only thing I really felt was some tightness around my abs and chest for a couple days since they pump gas inside you, but it wasn't bad. Months later I just have two maybe 5mm "scars" that look like healing insect bites near my hips that fade more every day. The immense relief I felt afterwards can't be described. It's amazing to have those years of fear, anxiety and stress concerning pregnancy suddenly wiped away.

No. 175590

Both my parents had issues (one with alcohhol, one with depression) so I was left to partially raise my younger brother. I'm done with sacrificing time for kids. My brother and I are both childfree, and so are our significant others.

The world can go fuck itself and its expectations for all I care, there ain't enough money in the world to turn me into a mother.

No. 176991

I'm nearly two weeks post-op from getting a bisalp and shit it sure feels good. The recovery has been pretty easy and I'm so relieved that I never have to worry about pregnancy ever again. If you have the means to get sterilized I definitely recommend it! I'm 24 so I was worried it would be a nightmare getting approved for the surgery but I found a doctor from the childfree subreddit who had no problem with it.

No. 176992

What country are you in? I'm interested in a salpingectomy but I live in the UK and worry it could be hard to get unless I go private.

No. 176997

I'm in the midwest USA. There's a few UK doctors on this list that work for the NHS, but it does seem like it'd be more difficult for sure. I also found a write up someone made about requesting sterilization through the NHS. Hope it helps!


No. 177008

They won't touch us, anon. I'm in the UK and I've been trying for over 10 years to get a bisalp on the NHS. I am now waiting for a consultation at a private hospital where I think the op is going to cost £3k+. I find it thoroughly annoying that you can have as many babies as you like for free, but the moment you want to take control of your fertility, they put up every barrier they can. If it helps you see how rigid, they are, I am over 30 and they still wont touch me with a barge pole. You might have better luck, but up here in the north west? Not a chance. Good luck though!

No. 177014

>I wish I wasn't born so I couldn't possibly imagine doing the same thing to a hypothetical child.
This is exactly, exactly how I feel aswell, unfortunately you can't tell people that's your reasoning for remaining child-free.

No. 177034

Diff anon but that last part. I had a childhood where social services had to get involved and I nearly was taken away, my dad kept that all very hush hush. Spent half my teens being monitored by social workers still and then spent my twenties privately getting counselling for childhood neglect. Got sectioned at 25 and finally broke down and spoke about the sexual abuse that social workers had tried to get me to admit to for over a decade prior. Seeing as everything was kept so hushed up though..nobody gets why I would choose to not have children today. Or just why I'm mentally not always doing the greatest. If I were frank about it with extended family I feel I just wouldn't be believed because from the outside everything looked ok and passed as normal back then. I hate that you can't be honest about things like that. The secrets carry on forever because you don't want to make people uncomfortable either, It's such a heavy topic. You have to pacify people with vague answers instead.

All the secrecy and shame, the hidden skeletons in my family.. it doesn't inspire me to try my hand at raising a well adjusted child. Some feel differently about this part..but I personally see if forever affecting my own interpersonal relationships, a parent/child relationship being the top one where I'd really have no clue on how to navigate it. If you neglect a child in their first 4 years the damage is so insanely hard to mitigate later on in life. Almost impossible. I don't want generations of that to unwittingly repeat.

No. 177041

Generational trauma is an extremely valid reason not to have children. As is any other reason, of course.

I digress, it's so weird how people think it's okay to even ask people about their family planning unprompted imo. I don't wanna tell someone what my goals for my uterus are. What the fuck kinda archaic prying is this?! I also find it weird to hear that people are "trying for a baby" when I never asked. You're gonna tell me you're having unprotected sex? But why.

No. 177054

Hate to be that person but this degeneracy comes from Anglos, who preach progressiveness but are obsessed with patriarchal Christian views of the 50s nuclear family and barefoot stay at home mommy wives.
I grew up in a Muslim Slav third world country that I can't believe I'm defending, but here asking a person about their family plans and telling someone you're fucking without a condom now is extremely taboo. Nobody asked, and nobody cares. How many kids you want and when you're having them is likewise a conversation to be had between two married people. Keep it to yourself.

No. 177057

Dreamed last night that I was pregnant, even though I got a bisalp a year and a half ago. In the dream I was unaware of my pregnancy until the moment my water broke and I was instantly terrified of what was about to happen to my body (tearing, etc). I was lying down and gushing blood in giant fire-hydrant torrents out of my crotch, hard enough to spray the walls with it. Fucking nasty. Woke up grateful once again that I made the choice to get sterilized. Sometimes I think about how if some kind of apocalypse happens, no moid could ever use me to repopulate against my will, and I feel contented and reassured in a way I never could before the bisalp.

No. 177059

I think it's simply because in most people's minds it goes without saying that a couple is going to have kids.

To be honest, as much as I wish to remain childfree myself, I don't think it's that weird when people tell others they're trying for a baby. Like reproducing is a pretty normal, natural and common part of a human life and having kids is a big change in one's life. Is it that weird to tell people around you that that big change in your life is most likely coming soon? I personally don't think so.

On one hand you say you find it weird that people ask about someone else's family planning unprompted but at the same time you also say you find it weird that people ask about trying for a baby unprompted. If you can't ask about it unprompted and you can't talk about it unprompted, that would make talking about family planning and kids impossible.

I realize this is going to be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but yeah I don't think it's that weird to talk about something so completely normal in a human life.

No. 177070

I agree. I have no interest in kids myself, but I don’t know why “trying for a baby” is somehow immediately translated to “we’re having unprotected sex” to some people. Like yeah, they probably are, but why are you thinking about that? I don’t imagine someone shitting every time someone says they need to use the washroom. No reason to make it vulgar.

No. 189833

I'm in my late 20's and I think I'm finally coming to the realization that I don't want/shouldn't have kids.

I never even thought about having kids, until I got sucked in to jordan peterson in 2016. I started listening to his lectures, which I really enjoyed. I was always really into joseph campbell so when I discovered jordan I ate it up. he says all of this stuff about how having kids gives your life purpose and whatnot, and how most women want kids, and regret focusing on their career instead. he also says that women who don't know if they want kids or not by the time they're in their mid 20's aren't "properly oriented" (k).

I convinced myself that I was somehow being selfish for never thinking of having kids, and that I should plan to have them someday.

however, the question isn't "do I want kids" but more "should I have kids" and the answer is almost definitely no. neither of my parents should have ever had children, especially not my mom. she is a hoarder who can't even take care of herself- as in do basic cleaning and hygiene- let alone raise multiple children. I grew up being neglected and as a result have a ton of mental health issues.

I'm cluster A and I have some other mental health problems, it just would not feel ethical knowing there's a high chance of passing that on to my kid(s). I can't even maintain friendships let alone raise a mentally healthy child. I have other issues too like how predisposed to obesity I am.

the biggest things I want to do in life are travel and study my subjects of interest and honestly I feel pretty guilty about that, which is fucking sad because I know a man wouldn't feel guilty about that at all. I want to travel to europe more than pretty much anything, even live there for a while ideally. however, I'm already in my late 20s and if I spent years living there then I would be in my mid/late 30's by the time I would want to settle down and have kids, which could technically still happen but would be harder to manage. and honestly travelling sounds so much more appealing then sacrificing 18 years of my life to raise another human being. also, I pretty much have 0 maternal instincts.

I just can't shake this feeling that I'm somehow being selfish though? and part of me kind of does want kids, I think. it's really hard to tell though because I'm so easily influenced, and I almost think that wanting kids is some kind of fomo for me, mostly because I am afraid I will get to be 40+ and regret not having kids but not be able to have them at that point (not that women over 40 can't get pregnant but it's harder).

No. 189840

My mom was a piece of shit too who never should have had kids, so I know that feeling, anon. I don't plan to have kids because of a worse reason than that, but her shitty "parenting" was also a big part of it.

I like Jordan and all but it baffles me as to why these kinds of people (folks like Jordan Peterson and other speakers) seem to think women have no rich, rewarding life if children aren't involved. I'm really into history, and I've come across so many women who had fucking amazing lives, and had no kids. But I have a feeling Jordan Peterson isn't familiar with them. Idk, I feel like the only selfish people nowadays are the ones who DON'T read history. Otherwise they'd realize there's more to life than just THEIR view of it. And thinking that everyone should conform to their view is selfish.

No. 189843

>I have a feeling Jordan Peterson isn't familiar with them

He knows lol. He started out reasonably honest, now he just panders to his fanbase (angry young men) for coin.

No. 189846

Agreed. Being a mother is just one of the many choices and perhaps an extension of womanhood, but not its definition. You can have a happy, fulfilled life without children for sure.

I personally would rather regret not having children than regret having them. And I also think that the possibility of regretting a childfree life one day is not a good reason to have them. As a woman that has been leaning childfree lately, I don’t want to put too much emphasis on the regret thought. There will probably be moments of FOMO once the people around me increasingly become parents and perhaps even moments of regret in certain situations, but I will simply allow these feelings and see them as what they are: Fleeting thoughts that won’t bother me for long because I know that a childfree life is better for me in general. Also Anon, I don’t think you are selfish because you have mentioned several reasons to not have children that are focused on the child and not on you. And even if you were selfish, who cares? It doesn’t matter if you don’t want to have children because you don’t want to pass on a certain illness or because you simply want to spend all your money on yourself. In the end, it is your body and your decision and it honestly is fine to be selfish in that regard.

No. 189847

I genuinely don't understand women who listen to men when it comes to matters that are exclusively for women (having kids isn't but childbirth is).

No. 189863

Good stuff nita. I agree that this argument often is based off of (scrote) emotion. Even if I wanted children it would be a massive life change with no way to predict if whether or not it was the life path I desired. Objectively I would have a very difficult time raising functional children, at least compared to other women, so I’m probably going to stay childfree because I’ve determined it’s the objectively the route with the least amount of potential damage. Also had an ex try to argue with me about how adoption could never be as emotionally fulfilling as blood children.

No. 189873

>says all of this stuff about how having kids gives your life purpose and whatnot, and how most women want kids, and regret focusing on their career instead.
I always have to laugh at this, because then I'm the ultimate selfish person, because I'm not saving lives, not pushing humanity forward with big bucks or specialized knowledge but also am not producing the future workforce via birthing children. I feel like all these reddit childfree posts too give the dichotomy that you're either having kids but don't do great things or you're not having kids but then you'll be the most awesome high paid professonal adult to justify not having kids. Can't a gal just enjoy the little things?

No. 189878

I can't believe people have kids and have to miss out on so much but then seethe when I go about my life spending my time and money on me, all thise thousands that would have been put into education being spent on holidays and surviving and all the years of child rearing stress completely absent in my life, and tell me I'm unfulfilled

Saying kids are fulfilling is the biggest cope I've ever heard

No. 189879

>Saying kids are fulfilling is the biggest cope I've ever heard
100% true

No. 189889

Sometimes I kinda want kids, or even just one… I'm not financially secure and the thought of how time-consuming and money consuming it is puts me off every time

No. 189890

Oh and I forgot to add that I have autism so I don't know how I would cope with a little human when sometimes I struggle to even take care of myself.

No. 189893

Same kinda. I'm a fence sitter bc I genuinely love babies and kids and I do like the idea of having a family from an idealized perspective, but my mental health issues (bipolar) make me think it's a baaad idea. Plus being a mother requires so much sacrifice and basically eats up every second of your free time for years, not to mention the physical toll of pregnancy and childbirth and all the complications that can stem from it. Then there's the possibility of having a special needs kid, or your child dying, or your partner turning out to be a violent nutcase but you're tied to him forever bc you had his kid…yeah, too many uncertainties.

No. 189950

Yesterday my older sister said, "[Nephew] could really use a boy cousin… [my name]." Then everyone started piling on.

I hate how family treats your uterus like their personal real estate. It's so degrading. Literally nobody is ever like, "Do you want kids?" They're just like, "When are you having kids…" The decision has already been made for me.

It makes me i r a t e.

I'd be more forgiving if I haven't been saying for over a decade now, "I'm pretty sure I don't want kids."

No. 189953


I think I'm just emotionally retarded or something, because having kids is so illogical to me. It has never made any sense to me ever, and the only time I thought I wanted kids I was actually just extremely horny.

It's almost shocking to me that anyone really wants kids at all.

There don't seem to be any positives aside from they take up more of your time, and it's nice to have a project that's bigger than yourself.

No. 189958

Yep, that's how I feel as well. Any desire to be a mother, have kids and maternal instinct is completely absent in me and I just simply can not look at having kids as something logically worth it or desirable. It does make me sometime wonder if there's something "wrong" in my brain when I see that for nearly everyone around me, having kids sooner or later goes without saying and doesn't even have to be thought about.

No. 189959

Same. I see no pro in having them and people get sometimes upset when I mention it. I mean if someone wants them go for it, I'd be happy for them, but personally… I don't get it.

No. 189960


>I just can't shake this feeling that I'm somehow being selfish though?

The selfless reasons for having children are creating workers. People to create and move capital. People to sustain the system. If you believe in the system, there is your selfless reason to have children. Go for it.

The selfish reasons for having children are because you want the intimacy, the closeness, the satisfaction of knowing someone is permanently connected to you and that they exist because of you.

That is why most people have children. In turn, parenthood often demands them to be really selfless people. Unfortunately not selfless enough to care about the world at large, only selfless enough to think about a body other than their own to share their DNA.

I don't mean to sound so cynical about child-parent relationships. I think parenthood probably is really enjoyable to some people. I've seen super stable and happy family structures built on that basis!

No. 189973

NTA It probably depends on childhood socialization and general family values. Like it's somewhat tinfoily, but I think the push to have less "gendered" childhoods and not to push baby dolls for nursing on little girls makes it less likely you'll be obsessed with motherhood, but it's obviously not that simple.

Reminds me a talk I had with my friend about the vaccine and she told me she's scared of taking it, and I told her I didn't have any bad reactions to it, she told me she's scared that she could become infertile. Which I don't believe would happen, but it was also never a factor for me even when I heard those scare tactics. I was like 20 when I first said my then-boyfriend that it'd be kind of a relief to find out I'm infertile by nature, and he looked at me as if I had two heads, so I never talk about childlesness to anyone anymore kek.

No. 190074

>it'd be kind of a relief to find out I'm infertile by nature
I have had similar thoughts, but I also refrain from telling anyone about it because it seems a bit unhinged and there is also so much suffering around infertility for many women that I feel kind of bad about it. There was a time where I brainwashed myself into wanting to have children because of societal pressure and the people around me starting to push me. I resonate with >>189953 because it just doesn’t make sense to me and I felt emotionally retarded when I saw other women talk about their deep desire to have children and how it is so important for our lives. I sat down for weeks, watching baby videos on YouTube every day with titles like "Watching this will give you baby fever!" and I tried to accept the idea of being a mother. I do find toddlers cute, so there were some Kodak moments with them I could imagine and I thought I had developed the wish for a child. But at the same time I started having really disturbing dreams around the issue (especially about breastfeeding and losing autonomy of my body) and secretly started hoping that I am infertile or even have an accident that does that to me. It showed me that I really don’t want to be a mother no matter what anyone says. You can really brainwash yourself into it, but my secret thoughts around the issue were so obvious. Now that I have come to terms with my decision and also have talked about being childfree to others, I don’t hope for infertility anymore though because I can finally be open about my desires without hoping for a secret cure.

No. 190077

>NTA It probably depends on childhood socialization and general family values. Like it's somewhat tinfoily, but I think the push to have less "gendered" childhoods and not to push baby dolls for nursing on little girls makes it less likely you'll be obsessed with motherhood, but it's obviously not that simple.
Well, now that you make me think about it, I think I was raised in a fairly gender-neutral way. Not in a deliberate 'woke' way, but my parents never put emphasis on me being a girl and therefore different from a boy, being a girl was not a reason for anything (as in you must do or can't do xyz thing because you're a girl) and they definitely didn't talk to me about my future kids/wanting to have grandkids/"when you have kids yourself". I don't think that having kids when you grow up was ever presented to me as something that goes without saying like getting a job after you finished your education goes without saying. Maybe that's why I don't relate when anons here write about female socialisation.

No. 190079

Really late, but this is extremely common. Having someone to be your butler when you get old is like 40% of why people have kids. Fucking absurd, it's basically believing that your kids owe you indentured servitude because they were born.

My brother got married and moved across the country recently and my mom is furious about it. She feels like being around his future children and being taken care of is the "reward" she deserves for raising him and putting him through college. Whenever she bitches about all the things she's had to do for us, my response is always, "you didn't have to have kids, you know." People who only do kind things because they expect to be rewarded shouldn't be parents, frankly.

No. 190084

Idk I had stereotypical stuff pushed on me at a young age, which included baby dolls but I still had no interest in real babies (and still don't).

No. 190146


I had baby dolls. I really liked babies as a teenager. I liked playing with them and holding them. Even today I really want to volunteer at the hospital to hold babies.

But for as long as I can remember, I never wanted a child of my own. When my friends in high school talked about how they wanted to get pregnant and have a baby so badly, I thought they were psychotic.

No. 190155

I never wanted baby dolls and when I got memed into asking for one (by every other girl having it, commercials etc) I still didn't know what to do with it and it ended up collecting dust. I never wanted to be a mom

No. 190208

File: 1622919289918.gif (768.19 KB, 237x155, nightmare_fuel.gif)

I know for most it's just an assimilationist cope, but seriously why is it so difficult to find a childfree ssa partner?
So many want children in the next five years or have children from a previous marriage and I risk becoming some sort of stepdad figure. I feel flattered that any of these women were interested in me in the first place, but this shit really makes me panic. I wonder if I'm just avoidant and immature or internally misogynistic.
Other than that, my life is a lot easier than that of my friend; she has turned into one of those step-dad-like figures. She regularly has to deal with her gf's scrote ex and her free time is non existent.

No. 190357

happened the same to me, and shortly after people stopped pushing having kids on me, I grew that desire on my own. Still, this is an interesting thread. I would only advise anons who want to go artificially sterile to avoid so, tbh. Gives lots of complications, and if you use dating sites and such, telling men you are sterile instead of not wanting kids is the worst idea, makes them even more careless and they will treat you like just a fucktoy.

No. 190476

I’m low fertility i.e. I would require doctor assistance to get pregnant.

My experience with men is that they are still worried about the chances of getting me pregnant and want to be safe anyway. I hang in progressive crowds. Most of these men are anti-natalist in varying degrees.

It is much harder to get a man who doesn’t want children to talk about commitment though. They will act like they are part of a married couple for years then freak out when you ask to make it official. I’m getting to the point where I’m not sure I want to be legally chained to a guy either, though.

No. 190636

My whole family is shitty, I'm poor AF, i suffer from various mental illnesses and bipolar runs in my family, unless i become a billionaire I'm not having kids, hell nah.

No. 190640

Samefag but i should add i live on a third world country where very young people have tons of kids for seemingly no reason, just seeing their poor, miserable offsprings trying to survive in this hopeless death trap gives me enough reason to not have kids at all. Why do poor people have so many kids? I just don't get it dude, kids will ruin you financially and mentally is such a bad move, I'm a poorfag and having a kid in these circumstances sound like the worst nightmare.

No. 190677

Poor people can't afford contraceptives, and aren't really educated about biology in general (I heard stories of men hopping into the shower with their GFs to "wash out" the semen in my old friend group). Also when people have shit chances at life they might just want to have kids because there's nothing to look forward to. Like if you "maxed out" on life at 20 and have no ambitions (or can't even choose any), you don't worry about how limiting having kids will be.

No. 190799

I have never wanted children but am a victim of influencers I like glamorising pregnancy/babies. I know the harsh reality of it and how people only present the best of their life to the internet but it still has this weird pull on me that confuses me. Like seeing people with really reasonable children makes me think it might be OK. I don't want to change my mind because some woman on the internet had an interesting video on cloth diapers but here I fucking am, I guess.

No. 190806

Me too, nonnie, I see too many women being happy with their quirky children and I can only think that I want one too.
The things that are keeping me away from getting one is 1. Not having a boyfriend or husband and 2. Knowing that my relatives’ kids are annoying as fuck.
I would consider suicide if I did everything on this earth to make sure my kid can turn into a decent person just to see them going full retard becauseof/on the internet and/or acting like absolute pieces of shit just because.
I just hate this game of probabilities.

No. 190809

On top of that childhood is so temporary. You will likely know your kid as an adult longer than you will know them as a child.

Think of how many people resent their parents sheerly due to generational differences in values.

My mom also said that even if it’s more work to take care of young kids, it doesn’t hold a candle to the anxiety of having teen/adult children who now have to fend for themselves in the world.

No. 190811

So they can pimp their kids or send them to factory to get $. Also from rape, and not being able to afford contraceptives.

No. 190816

I sometimes borrow my friend's kids to go on amusement parks and ride the kids rides I want, I do this because I would look ridiculous riding them alone.

The only reason I would have a kid is to buy toys and all the kid stuff I always wanted, shit reason to have kids so I will not breed.

No. 190863

Long rant incoming:
I work in a place that sells sweets toys and ice cream, so I’ve witnessed the best and worst behaviour a little humanlet can display third hand many times. Some kids are so annoying and pathetic. Like, say their parents take them to get ice cream. They can’t just be content with that. They have to have EVERYTHING.
“Mummy I want the xxxl cone with chocolate and sprinkles and stwawberry sauce! Mummy daddy I don’t want a small chocolate bar, I want a fullsize xxxl chocolate bar the size of my stomach! Pleeeaaaase!” Then when they are denied they get that hurt puppy look on their face and whiiiiiine with a quivering lip, “but I waaaaaant it mummy waaaaah!” Then they stamp their feet and pout, cry, sulk like they’ve been wronged, they ruin the fucking day for everyone. Sometimes even when they’re as old as like 9 or ten they will throw themselves around and scream. They will refuse to touch the perfectly adequate treat they’ve been gifted. REFUSE it. Just one scoop of ice cream is NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Or they will see some 80.00 toy they’ll get bored of in a week, and their mother tells them to wait for their birthday and they go AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! All around the store. Like they couldn’t sound more distressed even if they where being brutally tortured. Why are some kids like this, whereas others, while pushing their luck a bit asking for more, just aren’t? I’ve seen like 3 year olds better behaved than ten year olds. When I see these kids get owned by their parents it’s so fucking satisfying, like a father stopped me once halfway through making his son an ice cream, said “we won’t be needing that anymore” then dragged the screaming little cunt out of there with no ice cream because he was so insistent he should have three large scoops with all the toppings, instead of one scoop and one topping in a medium cone which is a perfectly fucking adequate and delicious frozen treat. And he goes “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO” like some sort of dramatic drama movie. Is it just first world kids like this? The worst behaved ones are usually white. I say this as a white girl who’s parents had no qualms of smacking their kids.
Why are some kids so nice, and some are so horrible? Why do I see 5 year old brothers giving their ice cream to their crying little sister because she dropped hers? Without missing a beat, like it’s second nature for them. Why does a toddler that hardly speaks clearly decide to tell me unprompted “you’re the besttest ice cream maker in the whole world” ? It makes me ACHE for a child of my own yet when I see spoiled little bastards i literally just want to smack them? People ITT are right about generational trauma and passing on the same mistakes. I used to resent my parents for being smack happy, but that’s literally my first instinct with a kid.

Kids cannot really express their emotions and problems, so perhaps tantrums over superficial treats is just a way of expressing extraneous issues in their life that they can’t talk to their parents about? Like they have a horrible abusive teacher who calls them stupid and screams in their face, they get picked up by dad or mum and taken for ice cream so they vent their rage in a way that is safe and harbours little consequence? If I had kids I would make a habit of saying “is this REALLY what you’re upset about? Is there anything you want to talk to mummy about?” But really, I will just secretly want to smack them until they’re pink as cured ham?

Anyways, I’m approaching late 20s and defo not mentally ready for a kid KEK.

No. 190919

The parents with good kids are good parents. There are some exceptions to this- mental illness or learning disability.

Kids are basically born narcissists. They like to push boundaries, see what works to get their way, etc. The behaviors you see with kids at your store are the ones their parents have permitted or given into.

I think a lot of parents are inconsistent. I guarantee the kid whose dad pulled him out while you were making ice cream has gotten his way before. A number of times. If not with his dad, then with his mom.

No. 191441

>They like to push boundaries, see what works to get their way, etc.
Exactly. Not to speak ill of kids, but they are somewhat like puppies. They don't know the "pack order", so it's up to you to establish that hierarchy. You do that by setting up boundaries, like "bed by 8 pm on school days". Kids need stability and structure in their life, much like dogs.
I used to work at a summer camp as a junior counselor, and at the beginning of the season, everyone was a little unsure. But by the end, you'd see even the shy kids coming out of their shell and making friends. They knew all the songs, how to make the perfect mudball, etc.

No. 191444

I actually like kids but having some full time would be exhausting for me. I would have loved to be the childless aunt that spoilers their nieces and nephews but alas I am an only child.

I also was terribly emotionally abused as a kid and am afraid of continuing the cycle. I can handle kids in small doses but I think I’d end up snapping if I had them full time and I couldn’t live with myself if I became my dad. I don’t want to every get married for this reason too.

No. 191445

They are bad parents and that is that. Don't listen to anybody who says it's the kid's nature or whatever dumb shit. Kids are not different from dogs, you train them if you're persistent and you adjust the training to it's temperament. They failed.

Physcial violence is not how you should train either of those species

No. 191447

Same, hanging out with kids makes me happy and energizes me like nothing else but but I worry I'm too fucked up from abuse to raise a child without passing on my own shit.

No. 191465

Honestly same though. I didn't have a nuclear family growing up and basically had to act like a parent for my younger sister when she was born since my mother was a lazy piece of shit. I highly doubt I would be a good parent for the simple fact that I'm already fucked up.

That and vaginal tearing. Don't want that shit either.

No. 191498

ive never wanted kids, i was even known for being really vocal about it in high school (kind of cringe but its just an aspect of who i am) and my bf seems to be okay with that as he insists, but i want to get married and im afraid his parents will put the pressure on. im SO glad i have loving parents who have always said "if you dont want kids, dont have them. its stressful and expensive" because it fucking is!

here's a CFpill. my bfs brother decided years ago (before i met current bf) it was cool to have unprotected sex with this bar whore who had multiple forced miscarriages/abortions (this grown woman partied hard when she found out she was pregnant to kill the fetus because she likely didnt know who the fathers were. yes it happened multiple times) she used to do cocaine (told me to my face it "was her drug of choice" ew) and i think theyre both alcoholics. she also has a kid with cerebral palsy who is basically a vegetable who does nothing and she also doesnt know who the father is. she has cheated on this guy before too, and sometimes acts suspicious as fuck. she is such a crazy woman i avoid her as much as possible especially when she was trying to befriend me. i think shes gotten the hint that i dont like her and honestly i dont care. anyway the point is, they have a daughter and live together now and i feel so bad for their daughter. this couple fights all the time and my bfs brother has even admitted if they didnt have a kid he would not be with her today. like what the fuck? thanks now i have to put up with this crazy chick in the family whereas the rest of you are pretty normal. she tries to act like some kind of cool anti-feminist but she puts him down often when people are over and its really fucking rude? even made fun of my bf in front of her neighbor. bfs parents are so enraptured with their grandchild they try to ignore how absolutely batshit this woman is. thank god my bf and i can talk about it at home and both agree how fucked this couple is. i feel bad for her daughter, she might end up messed up. why respect men when they have an oops kid with a bar whore lmao?

No. 191503

Holy shit, kids or children aren’t dogs, puppies, or pets you have to manipulate. I’m truly glad none of you are giving birth to anything because you are all literally the last people on Earth that should have children. Thank god, wipe off your existence off this planet and be done with it

No. 191516

Take your meds and leave this place

No. 191552

>Like if you "maxed out" on life at 20 and have no ambitions (or can't even choose any), you don't worry about how limiting having kids will be.
I know you're just trying to explain this mentality to me anon but damn, that sounds like the stupidest, riskiest plan ever: "life is shit and i have no opportunities so I'll bring kids to this disaster to make everything worse" wtf, i know poor people aren't very bright generally but c'mon

No. 191556

She's kinda right tho, kids are humans they're very different to dogs or any other animal for the matter that's just how it is, anons trying to rationalize them as puppies sound inexperienced and immature.

No. 191596

>>191516 i mean, i agree that saying "training" in regards to kids is fucked up. but not all CF women are toxic.

No. 191643

Put a kid in a household where there are no rules, the parents don't take charge, and there is no schedule. See how well the kid grows up.

No. 191651

i don't get how it's fucked up, it's no different from saying "teaching" or something like that, plus the term "potty training" is used by actual parents a lot. are kids not supposed to be taught things?

No. 191704

my 26 year old brother remembers watching a movie with my mom and grandma (long story but she is abusive to my mom, not a good woman) and being quiet and our grandma saying "he is well trained." people remember these things. it's dehumanizing to be referred to that way. potty training is one term, calling teaching or disciplining a kid "training" is like referring them to an animal. jeez people, i thought i hated kids. at least i dont treat them like they arent stupid fucking little humans.

No. 192398

My younger brother is around 30 and has 2 kids. Over the past several years it has become painfully obvious to me that my parents favor him. Like big time.

I'm successful, independent, thoughtful, and loving but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean shit to them anymore.

They do pretty much nothing but talk about how great my bro and his family are non stop. My mom tries to be nice but has lots of random passive insults for me that are extremely confusing.

Anyone else? Honestly I just want to cut them off sometimes.

No. 193309

my parents dont care if i breed but im terrified my bfs parents will start to nag me when we get married. its dumb as fuck too because his brother has a kid with this absolute witch, and i can tell they think she is a bitch but are enamored with this kid. i think because they have a dysfunctional relationship too, they think it’s more normal/acceptable to hate your partner as long as you have kids with them!!!1 i fucking hate breeders. not people who have kids in general, but these people with a pathological problem of “YOU NEED TO HAVE KIDS. YOU NEED TO. otherwise you arent a respectable or functional adult.” you know, the kind of people who yell and fight in front of their kids but i guess we dont need standards and anything goes as long as you pop out children. i dont fuckin get it.

No. 193417

For most parents, they see their daughter as a wasted investment if she doesn't have kids/isn't taking care of an ill family member. Even if they don't say it.

No. 193427

Even if you don't want kids I'd be mindful of the fact that being raised in a 'it's normal to hate your spouse haha' kind of family can still fuck him up in ways you may not see til you're already pretty commited to him.

Few people come from dynamics like that without (totally unconsciously) recreating it to an extent in their own relationships.

No. 193453

>do not want to want kids

anyone here relate?

No. 193469


No. 193515

You literally have to teach kids how to be nice people that fit in socially.

Obviously you don't use the same methods you would training a dog, but conceptually it's really not that different.

Children don't even develop empathy until they're closer to 10. Everything up to that point it just pure mirroring.

No. 193526

>they are bad parents and that is that
Stfu you don’t know shit.

No. 193531

>is this REALLY what you’re upset about?
Yes, yes it is. Kids are superficial. Ice-cream is the most important thing in the world. Do you not remember when you were a kid?

No. 193537

Found the bad parent

No. 193565

i mean in his previous relationship it was definitely like that but a reason my bf and i are so close is we mostly value the same things and it’s verified by all the conversations we have every day about these things. i was raised in a house with parents who really love each other and always made it clear before we were even really dating that thats what matters to me and it’s certainly real, just rare. we dont really fight or nag each other, there are little things here and there but we have a loving relationship. he and i openly talk about how weird the relationships in his family are… has a relative who is even dating a tranny lol… we went on vacation with his parents, brother, brothers gf and their daughter last year, i was shocked they gave us the “honeymoon suite” then realized the next day… it was because neither couples sleep in the same bed together! i just dont agree with that being normal unless it’s for health reasons or something…

No. 193566

i tried when i got serious with my bf as he does want them but when i told him honestly how hard i tried to want them, and how much it just made me realize how much i dont want kids, he was like yeah i figured… thankfully he would rather be with me and childless than in the “have kids with someone i hate” situation a lot of people in our lives are lol

No. 193624

Working with kids this past year has really put and end to any doubts I might’ve had about being cf. Some of the kids are sweethearts, but a few of them are just…For context, I work with kids from 3 years to 10.
There’s this one kid who couldn’t be more spoiled and always gets away with bad behavior because he’s very cherub-looking. He’s four, but just unmanageable. Anytime you tell him off he makes the dumbest surprised face because it works with other adults, he never listens, is always messing around doing gross shit like spitting into paper towels. I talked to his mother today when he came to pick him up, told her he behaved very bad and she was like
>Yeah, he’s very rebellious lately., he probably just wants the school to end and is stressed. He’s started calling me whore lately and everything.
How the fuck do you react to this lmao this kid is FOUR and he’s already manipulating the shit out of his mother, who just can’t put any boundaries. I cannot even imagine what he’s going to be like when he’s a teenager. I would feel bad for the mother if she wasn’t a complete retard, but reap what you sow, I guess.
If I ever had a kid and he was any similar to some of the kids I work with, I’d just end up becoming a deadbeat mother kek

No. 193635

You have no idea how happy I am that this thread exists.
There's this popular forum in my country where there's a thread dedicated to women who don't want kids and guess what? So many mumbies have to butt in and talk about their kids. Other members have complained and most of them have left so the thread is pretty much inactive but it's so hard to have a space for childfree women. And some of the popular ones like on reddit are a constant target for mockery.

No. 193637

as in I hope I never want to want kinds, I don't want them now but I'm desperately scared that if I had an accident/talked myself into wanting it I would put another soul that did not ask on this ass planet and also, selfishly, I would hate my exsistence

No. 193638

My bf was like this at the beginning of our relationship. I started bringing him around to help babysit my nieces and nephews, and he quickly changed his mind.

I think men especially are susceptible to believing this mythology around having children because they're so inexperienced with kids. They aren't expected to babysit or help with child-rearing for their family. They're used to women taking care of everything.

In their heads it's like… a little person to admire them and a box to tick off in the "winning at life" list.

No. 193639

I get that CF can be 'toxic' at times but I don't get why people need to go into CF spaces and be obnoxious.

People seem to take it really personally when someone else doesn't want or like kids.

No. 193641

Yeah definitely. Most men think that having kids isn't much more than playing with the kids some after work and putting them to bed. I think that a lot of women wouldn't have kids if they knew on beforehand how little work men think having kids is. I see that with a LOT of young women (friends, coworkers, familymembers) who have young kids. Their men just don't want to put the same effort into their kids than the women do so the women have to do a lot of extra work.

No. 193642

I am a guy 4channer can am I allowed here?(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 193643

Ntayrt but this is what did it for me. I love children till they hit a certain age. Once they start being more influenced by their peers than their parents they become total fucking dickheads and ime they undervalue their mother's labor, even making sexual/degrading jokes about her. This doesn't apply to girls so much but as a former girl I know that I was a little brat to my parents as well although my family was extremely toxic. I could not put myself through the sacrifice that kids bring and then be talked down to like a servant or like I'm the worst mom ever when they get mad. My mom abandoned me after a certain age and it kills me to see so many people giving their moms a hard time over menial things. Or even the other people who claim their parents are narcissists yet their parents are still taking care of their fully grown asses living and receiving no benefit from it. I think I see it happening in the younger generation where people are alienating themselves from family members at the slightest bit of ideological disagreement, see this video here. I'm left-leaning but GC and I couldn't even imagine having a kid with the genderspecial doctrine going around.
And btw just remember how many people get thrown into nursing homes by their own children. Their own children hardly ever visit them according to people who work in nursing homes. Kind of makes sense in the US at least because I know a lot of people don't earn enough and don't have enough time off of work to take care of their elderly relatives. It's just safer not to bother with it if you're not set on having children. Don't let a scrote talk you into it, tell him to donate money to womb transplants so he can carry the baby himself kek.

No. 193645

Yeah, I discovered this when I was dating my previous ex. He insisted on having kids and would talk up motherhood, how fulfilling being a parent was, and so on. He wanted at least 2 kids, I said I didn't know if I wanted any. To him, that apparently meant "convince me". Whenever we walked past parents with their toddlers, he'd comment on how precious the kids were, when I saw some boys outside playing ball I said they were cute and he asked if I was "getting that baby fever yet?". He swore up and down he would cook and clean because his family isn't like my shit family.
Then we had to take care of my nephew for a weekend. I already had to care for my youngest sister growing up so I was no stranger to raising kids, but this man did nothing. When I straight up told him what to do, he wouldn't do it and would leave all the work for me because "I was better at it anyway". He stood around like an absolute retard all weekend and wanted actual praise for distracting my nephew with toys for a little while. Then he had the absolute balls to tell me "see? that wasn't so bad!" when my sister picked her son up. Never have I dumped a man faster.

No. 193647

DAE have a small family that have pressured them to carry on the family name? My sister and I are the last of our family with our last name and my dad always was adamant about us making men take our last names and having children with the last name to "carry it on". Now that I am not particularly set on having children or getting married I still feel guilty letting the name die with me. My sister is gay so she'll adopt kids if she has them, my dad doesn't say it because she's gay but when I said I would adopt he got mad because I'm straight and he wants grandchildren with his "blood".
I feel so goddamn guilty every now and then for not wanting kids and wanting to live my life. I never got to have any financial freedom and was constantly strapped for cash as a child, teen, and young adult. I want to finally experience life when I have my own salary and yet my dad who raised me keeps weighing down on me like I owe him children when he didn't even fucking give birth to me himself. Don't ask about my mom's opinion because she abandoned me once my dad wasn't paying child support anymore kek. I look at my ancestors and it's hard not to feel bad knowing that I'm ending the bloodline.
Sorry for rant, I just hope someone might be able to provide some advice or insight.

No. 193648

Considering how most people irl are very natalist, it amazes me how people need to spread their natalist bs in CF spaces. The saddest thing is that some of those women irl are single mothers or might as well be considering they do everything and they have this tendency to try to convince others how having kids is great while they themselves couldn't be a more of an anti-baby walking commercial.

No. 193650

My father is the same but he was a shit father to begin with so I don't feel like I owe him anything and neither should you. Him pressuring you to continue the bloodline is already very selfish and abhorrent.
But to make you feel better, you should keep in mind that nothing matters and we're all going to die and so having progeny for the sake of continuing some mythical bloodline is pointless in the grand scheme of things.

No. 193653

I could understand his mentality if you had a family history going back a thousand years, with oral history from every generation of that, but that's probably not the case, and even then it still doesn't matter if you don't want to have kids. Honestly, people's 'bloodlines' die out all the time, there's nothing to say your dad's genes are any more important than anybody else's. The naming/bloodline thing is just symbolic and not respectful of the fact that real people are being created and living for some wack ass idea their family had about being special. (not to be rude, most people aren't special and that's completely fine)
If you really have a personal connection to your ancestors and it's not just another way for your dad to manipulate you, you can write down whatever family history you have. Having children isn't the only way you can honor them, I'm sure you can think of many ways. A legacy of positive change to the people around you will be a much more meaningful legacy than giving a child a name.

No. 193659

Agree with all this, also want to add: I DO come a family that gives a shit about its history and can trace itself back a million years, and yknow, it's really fucking meaningful to me that I have a choice to end my chunk of it. Our genes aren't actually more special, as you say, and beyond that, I know for a fact recent generations were only possible b/c my grandmas had no options. I do. Not to sound pretentious, but I honestly try to really seriously consider how much of a duty I have to really do what I want when the women who ended up making me didn't. I want to honor my family by learning as much as I can about my foremothers (which is fucking hard, because nobody wrote shit down about them) deeply considering my own life, and doing what I can to make the world even freer for women. And tbh, though I don't want my own kids, I like kids and I want to do what I can to support my friends who do become mothers.

No. 193675

Tell your dad he's a retard and he had two daughters so he can't pass on his y chromosome and there's even a chance his X chromosome doesn't get passed on if you do have kids. Ancestry follows the maternal line anyway because women are the only sex that pass on mtDNA to offspring. Is he an only child or something and you have no cousins? Also let him know that all the humans before 1500BC have no remaining ancestors alive and unless someone in the family does something important everyone will be lost to history.

No. 193696

Thanks anons, I appreciate the responses! It's crazy to think that we'll all eventually be totally forgotten as if we never existed. Even notable people like Genghis Khan or Napoleon will be forgotten when the Earth ends.
Ik this is less related to CF stuff but I'm wondering what everyone thinks their purpose in life is? I wanted to do my part and 'maximize' my life's contribution to the Earth. When I was younger I thought this was easily reproducing but now I'm not so sure. At least not in this generation when there's so many problems that exist and will arise as a result of human's negligence towards environmental health and societal unrest. I think words are the best way to be immortalized although there's a big chance no one will care to read your work and you can't overlook that the world will eventually burn. I guess the best course of action is to try and benefit the people who are currently alive atm instead of doing a bunch of shit hoping that something still sticks after you're dead. Please offer your own thoughts though, I'd love to know what other women think in regards to "purpose" and the meaning of life.

No. 193713

I believe the universe exists out of randomness and therefore there is no purpose or meaning of life.

No. 193791

Well yeah but what do you think most humans should aspire to do to maximize their contribution to Earth/humanity?

No. 193800

>I DO come a family that gives a shit about its history and can trace itself back a million years
Same, I love it. Genealogy is fascinating. But I also look back through history and see how many amazing people didn't pass on their genes, and I find myself not minding if I don't, either.

No. 193874

nta but you should try to stop thinking about maximizing your contribution since there's no duty to do it. Most of us are average and there's very little that you can do to make a significant change. Work according to your principles, try to make your stay on earth as pleasant as possible. If you care about making a footprint become active in causes you think are personally important but that's difficult because most causes get hijacked by corps the moment they get any sort of traction however I digress.
It's depressing to know that anything we do doesn't matter in the end. Earth doesn't matter. That's why I'm an antinatalist even though that's a touchy subject for some reason because life has no purpose at all and anyone with a bit of sentience can come to this conclusion. So sentient people are burdened with this struggle to carve out an iota of meaning to make this life more bearable while there really isn't one. Dedicating yourself to a subject of passion seems to be the best way to pass your time imo.

No. 193924

>found the bad parent
Found the spoiled, coddled little brat who is long overdue a clip round the fuckin ear. Also I’m the anon you originally replied to so obviously I’m not a parent.

No. 193925

>I honestly try to really seriously consider how much of a duty I have to really do what I want when the women who ended up making me didn't.
My great-grandmother though a direct female line died when she was getting an abortion. She never wanted kids and neither do I. I like to think I'm finally living the life she wanted.

No. 193926

>I wanted to do my part and 'maximize' my life's contribution to the Earth
I try to be as eco-conscious as possible but this doesn't really answer your question. I don't know if it's my purpose in life or not, but being in sync with nature and helping it out makes me happy because it makes me really feel like a part of it, if that makes sense.
I don't need more of a purpose than that, just remembering that I'm a distant relative of all the plants and animals on this planet and treating them like family makes me happy. It would make me sad to see it all go away, so I try to experience as much of it as I can and minimise my impact on the environment.

I think people who are deeply depressed and unhappy in life tend towards the doomer mindset which only makes things worse and turns them into misanthropes. Loving nature and helping it out makes me learn to appreciate people because through volunteering I've met so many kind hearted individuals and amazing friends.

No. 193930

>Is it just first world kids like this?
Not all but yeah. I moved to a filthy rich Scandinavian country and the ratio of spoiled brats to good kids is a lot higher than where I'm from. It's not the kids' fault, it's the parents who think any form of discipline is abuse and try to be the kids' friend instead of a parent so they have no authority and let their kids walk all over them and others. Where I'm from kids just had to deal with what they had. Not that there weren't brats there either, but it gets nipped in the bud a lot faster when you're always told no because your mom and dad simply can't afford much.

No. 193942

Is "maximizing contribution to earth/humanity" people generally think about? I have never ever thought about it and certaintly not in the context of having kids.

No. 193943

File: 1624467204323.jpg (92.93 KB, 1300x867, 6798935331465770803421.jpg)

>tfw spanked as a child but all it did was turn me into a degenerate

No. 193957


No. 193974

Lmao same

No. 193976

Thanks anon, I appreciate your thoughts. I can agree with all of your points made and want to apologize for coming off naive. As detrimental as mindless and hedonistic consumerism is to the planet, I feel like one's own impact to fight against consumerism and its effects are pointless. Furthermore since life is so short and unpredictable, your best option of "how to live your life" is to focus on yourself, not thinking too hard about the world and prioritizing enjoyable experiences and the here and now above all else.
Now if ONLY I could actually abide by this and stop being so in my head all the time. Then again I feel like women who abide by that sort of impulsive pleasure-first life philosophy can get screwed over.
No I don't think many other people do. I'm just a depressed weirdo.

No. 193990

It's not pointless lol. A single human being in a Western country produces retarded amounts of waste per lifetime, especially if they do nothing but consume and chase temporary ways to feel good. One person in the United States produces the same amount of waste as ~10 individuals in India, and that's not even accounting for the energy consumption. If you think the only way to be accomplished in life is to consume and feel good then congrats, you've been had.

No. 193991

Regarding my life purpose I just want to be healthy, happy, make other people happy and reduce the harm I produce to other people (directly, obviously, but also indirectly) as much as possible.
I don't take myself too seriously and try to stay away from anything that damages my wellbeing and soul. Of course bad things still happen, and I don't want to live in an ignorant bliss either, so that also translates to the way I approach the stuff that isn't as pleasant.
I also believe in contributing to humanity (I'm studying for a career in public service atm), most people give to their communities in one way or another, even if it's not a rule for them.
I agree that the stuff we do as individuals is quite meaningless in a global perspective, but at the same time, when we do good actions, they'll impact someone, maybe in a small scale or maybe not. That's life, honestly. Not perfect and will never be, there'll be bad. And it's going to be unfair and senseless, but there'll also be good. And the good makes us live

No. 193998

Yeah, life doesn't have a purpose and we're here only for a short time, but adopting an "après moi, le déluge" stance is a shitty reaction to that realization.

No. 193999

Your life's purpose is whatever you make it. I don't believe anyone's life has some inherent purpose but you can choose to do something purposeful. Me? My life's purpose is to dick around, have a good time, see some pretty places and learn cool shit. I don't really care about leaving some kind of mark or legacy behind so kids don't make sense for me.

No. 194042

I think we are here to witness and enjoy life, and to help others enjoy life.

In a very literal sense I think my mom and dad had children because they thought it would help them enjoy life more. It clearly has given them a sense of meaning and purpose. Albeit religious obligation was part of that.

My purpose is to bring meaning and joy to the people I meet through human connection.

I don’t believe I need to have children to make this happen.

No. 194070

File: 1624512286167.jpeg (265.04 KB, 1298x778, 60194b0f094bc.jpeg)

I just want to be free and have fun, while I'm living anyways, might as well

No. 194189

>In their heads it's like… a little person to admire them and a box to tick off in the "winning at life" list.
Exactly. Although I would say I lucked out in the dad department. But I asked him what he thinks of men nowadays and he said they all seem pretty useless and more concerned with buying haircare products. I laughed. It really feels like men nowadays are just completely incapable of taking care of children, let alone THEMSELVES.

No. 194277

Honestly I lucked out in the dad department very much and I genuinely love him but my mom on the other hand…
She's one of the reasons of me opting CF, not only don't I want to risk enabling her parenting I don't want her getting involved into any of her potential grandkids. Other is that I'm physically disabled and autistic so it rules out me taking care of my own blood children. Adopting is nice in theory and I could see myself doing it but it's not something I acutely desire? If that makes sense.

No. 194279

Personal acnedote but I often times felt undeserving of the care/ love I got for my sister and dad and I think my shit mom had to do with It, so I guess it depends on the kid? Still not a gamble worth taking for but puberty only exacerbated my disdain for my mom and I only ever gotten frustrated at my dad for staying with her rather than any real fault on his parenting per-say. I still get a bit frustrated about him staying with her but that's the bed he made so he's going to lay on it. I just wished he didn't have roped us into being traumatized by her winch is why I have a knee jerk reaction when I know parents procreated with someone with known abusive tendencies in the past??
It's either myopic at best and selfish and enabling at worse. I think in case of my dad is myopic resignation as his quite old and nostalgic towards my mom when she wasn't a megabitch in sheep's clothing.

No. 199264

File: 1627169799035.jpg (197.72 KB, 2048x1856, feacal-2048x1856.jpg)

>'The Many Phases of Your Post-Baby Body, Explained': www.healthline.com/health/pregnancy/your-after-baby-body-explained
As a bonus, this article literally calls women "birth persons".

This stuff is just more reasons for the con side of my pro-and-cons list for kids. Any one here do something similar, have a mental list of arguments both for but predominantly against having kids?

No. 199266

No, I just never wanted them, no need to keep a list. There was never any argument about it, it's just not my thing. This is irrelevant to me.

No. 199269

I'm sort of envious, I've internalised the mantra that I am too young and too traumatised to know, there's also no way anyone will sterlise me for at least another eight years if not more, or ever.
I think what I really want is not to have to choose between wanting children and not wanting them. And by that I don't mean getting accidentally pregnant, but sort of wishing I wasn't alive to have to figure out whether or not it is ethical to put another sentient being on this planet.

No. 199270

>whether or not it is ethical to put another sentient being on this planet.
I'll just quote Khalil Gibran
>Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You know nothing of the future the children will bring. They might surprise us all.

No. 199273

Samefag, here's the entire poem
because maybe you haven't had it in your school curriculum and it's worth reading:

Your children are not your children.
They are sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you.
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For thir souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the make upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness.
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He also loves the bow that is stable.

No. 199289


as someone who believes life is fundamentally bad, i read this poem much differently than you.

No. 199294

No. 199306

>life is fundamentally bad
I havent read anything so ~edgy~ since the emo era

No. 199310

File: 1627211731809.jpeg (137.89 KB, 800x600, 6D1EE6B0-C44D-472C-98F6-56CBCD…)

I think life is good, but that the world is fucking terrible and I can't even comprehend how we're using up all resources with how numerous we are yet have a system hell bent on making MORE people no matter what
I genuinely believe we were meant to live in small familial groups and that anything else is unsustainable and extremely unhealthy, both for the body and the soul
Women not wanting to have kids and men becoming vain incels is pretty much exactly what happened in that infamous rat utopia experiment, I know rats aren't humans but it seems to be a completely normal reaction to feeling overwhelmed with the sheer amount of people existing around you

No. 199315

The woman in this video talks about how she doesn't want kids because she doesn't want kids. There isn't really a reason. She says she can think of a whole lot of drawbacks from having kids; time, money, space, stress etc. but she talks about how even if she didn't have to sacrifice any of that she still wouldn't want to have kids. And that really resonated with me. We're generally expected of that IF we don't want kids, we must have a really heavy weighing reason to justify our decision (financials, mental or physical health, infertility, sustainability etc.). People have a hard time grasping there's women who simply don't want kinds. When people ask me about it, I tell them I don't want kids for the same reason they may not want to own a dog or a horse; I simply have no desire to have one.

In the comment section there's a lot of older women (50's and up) who talk about being happily childfree or regretting not being childfree. One of the comments on the video says: "Having kids is women's ability not obligation."

No. 199317

I'm like her, and people have a really hard time wrapping their head around it. They're always going "but why".
I just say not having kids is my default. I'd need reasons to have children, but dont need any not to have them since it's my default state. They sometimes understand when I put it that way.

No. 199318

Unrelated but I enjoy how this youtuber does anti-hauls instead of promoting consumerism.

No. 199320

I can see why people want kids, like you can easily whip up a pro-con list. For me the easiest way to explain is that even if it was just the pro side without the cons, I still wouldn't want kids because I desire nothing that family life brings. I wouldn't even want the greatest, smartest, daughter, and then in reality I could end up with a terrible ADHD autistic male child, which makes rolling this dice an absolute no-no.

No. 199400

>You know nothing of the future the children will bring. They might surprise us all.
have you seen zoomers anon?

No. 199407

based anti-natalist nona

No. 199686

Maybe you're just a retard, anon. As long as we've had writing, people talk about how bad life is.

I was reading Pope Innocent III's writing the other day and he talks about how disgusting people are for being filled with dread, anxiety and depression knowing they're brought into the world to die. Then they procreate anyway to please themselves.

This was in the 12th century.

No. 200041

Anyone else doesn't hate the idea of having children but is terrified at the thought of being pregnant and giving birth? It would feel like being stuck in a stuck elevator for 9 months straight except the rescue has a slight chance of proving fatal to you. I don't understand how this is such a casual no biggie part of life for the majority of women on earth

No. 200043

Of course he's harping on how this life/world sucks, he's trying to sell you afterlife/heaven. It's just part of his sales pitch.

No. 200056

Hard agree, nonna. Pregnancy can lead to so many other complications, too. Like many women experience "loose-ness" after giving birth even once…and many others. Your body can experience irreversible changes.
However, I wouldn't say it's a 'no biggie' for other women - I think they see it as a phase you have to go through to have a child, and they just suck it up. Sometimes multiple times.

No. 200061

Honestly the only reason I don't want kid is because it's so expensive and time consuming. With infinite money and no time constrainrs I'd probably want a big family.
I honestly can't even fathom having a full time job, handling all the housework AND a child on top of it.

No. 200301

He's been dead 900 years, anon. Let it go.

No. 203765

No. 203801

Jesus. The fact that some people read this and genuinely feel amusement or anything aside from the most stomach-churning sense of revulsion and horror really just confirms I made the right decision to get my tubes seared shut

No. 203803

I sometimes think parents are just coping when they tell stories like these as fun adventures, but it is also perfectly possible that they genuinely enjoy this. Good for them, I guess. What annoys me is that he describes his life before as "boring" because he would just go to Subway, eat and leave. I always think it is kind of sad when parents find their own pre-children life or a childfree life in general "boring"; if anything, they are boring. And he will probably go back to feeling bored once his children have moved out because there won’t be anything to inspire him according to this story. Well, unless there will be grandchildren which he is already sure of. This also rubs me the wrong way; the kids are still super young and he is already planning for grandchildren which is so creepy.

Stories like these reassure me of my CF-leaning stance as well. There really is nothing quirky and funny about it and even if I was a mother and loved my children, I would hate this. I often feel the same when I look at my explore page on Instagram and toddler/baby videos appear. And I am not even talking about toddlers shitting themselves in a Subway, but toddlers having tantrums or destroying things. These usually get so many positive reactions, but I often feel very repelled when watching them.

No. 203864

One of the main reasons I don't wanna have kids it's because the loss of body autonomy.
The whole pregnancy thing sounds straight out of a horror movie.
I can't imagine having another creature inside me, feeling it inside a body that wouldn't be mine anymore, add to that the e risks during pregnancy, the probability of post-partum syndrome, my life revolving about a noisy child, and then after childbirth my brain chemicals will basically force me to love that kid…
I was raised in a cult, and I wouldn't be able to deal to basically be force to lose who I currently I am.
If I ever get pregnant, I'll end the pregnancy, because if I decided to give the baby to adoption, I would still be traumatized for like 9 months.

No. 203886

For many people, autonomy is a difficult concept to grasp to begin with, so it doesn't bother them at all to lose it. If your entire life has just been obedience and people pleasing, and if you get pregnant "accidentally" while not using contraception and knowing sex makes babies then you subconsciously already have to have been okay with the idea of pregnancy.

No. 203947

When I really think about it, I don't want children at all. They annoy me, pregnancy scares me to death, and I wouldn't be a good mother. I also value my complete freedom and having a child is a great way to lose that forever.

However babies are still cute to me sometimes and I'm scared I'll regret not having kids.

Another separate issue is that the men I date immediately want to lock me down and have children. Like I'm early 20s but every man I date asks me how many kids I want and starts raving about our full-of-children future. The BEST men I find want kids, because they're also the most nurturing, caring men. Idk if I'll ever find someone who's a great person AND doesn't want kids.

No. 203949

Just bc you find babies cute doesn’t mean you should have one. I find frogs super cute but I know I wouldn’t be able to care for them properly cuz they’re delicate & so much work.

No. 203950

And that's another reason I don't want kids, maybe the biggest reason. I can't deal with the kid potentially being disabled. Sorry if that makes me a bad person, but that would fuck my life up severely

No. 203954

And yet look at 99.9% of all fathers, they may seem nurturing and caring but most of them still refer to parenting their kids as baby sitting. It's still the mothers doing the majority of emotional and physical labor when it comes to child rearing. Boys will be boys and men will be boys too. Don't fall for the fairy tale nona.
Plus being a parent is not the only way a person can be caring and nurturing, and in fact most people that think like this scare me because they tend to lack empathy towards anything or anyone they don't see as theirs.

No. 203963

I've never really thought about it like this before, but that's such an interesting and scary concept. Like >>203864 I find the idea of losing autonomy viscerally disturbing. I don't even like it when people I don't know well hug me, so I can't remotely imagine being so passive and comfortable being objectified that pregnancy wouldn't phase me. It's definitely true women are groomed to be like this from an early age which is so disturbing. Not saying women who wanted to be mothers are "objects" but it's the concept of some people essentially loaning out their bodies with such little care and awareness.

No. 203973

Good post I feel similar.

No. 203978

>Idk if I'll ever find someone who's a great person AND doesn't want kids.
Same, dude. It sucks because the older you get, the more desperate men get that they hope you'll be their winning ticket of becoming a father!

No. 203998

On the other hand, as you get older most single men either already have grown kids so you aren't the one raising it or are more firmly secure in their childfree state

No. 205105

When does you "biological clock" start ticking?

I'm wondering whether I'll ever be fooled by biology to have kids, or if I'll just never develop that desire. Basically, do I really not want kids or am I just too young?

I'm 25. Everything about pregnancy and children is wildly horrifying and unappealing to me. Am I not old enough for my brain to start tricking me into making babies?

No. 205107

I think it never happens for some of us.

I had a girl back in high school, 12th grade, who was so obsessed with babies she ended up getting pregnant like 2 weeks before graduation.

So I think it might be a bit random or maybe it heppens to some after they achieve all other "milestones" in life? Idk

No. 205108

Menopause usually starts around age 45 to 55. Your chances of having a healthy pregnancy/baby reduce around 30 however it is still very possible. Looking after you health will do wonders. Because of modern Science and medicine many women are having children at old ages. Also, To avoid losing your eggs You can freeze them and use them later or have another woman carry them.

No. 205111

I always chalked my "I hate kids"ness to being too young. The more I age the more I find them cute, but I still don't want them.

>So I think it might be a bit random or maybe it heppens to some after they achieve all other "milestones" in life? Idk

Maybe. I thought I'd want them after I met a good man, but I met my bf who is awesome and I still don't want them. I'm financially well off, have a good man, a stable future, etc, but the desire isn't there.


I'll probably end up freezing eggs just in case, because I'm a "soft childless" if that makes sense. I don't want kids but I know I may in the future, and don't want to completely cut off that ability.


>I'm younger than you and I started having baby cravings randomly one day during sex. With that being said, I am perfectly healthy with no underlying illnesses, drug free, medication free, never on bc, and yet for the past year, I have not been able to get a positive test once.
Are you trying for a kid?

Despite not wanting kids, I do go mushy at my bf being nice to animals and children lol.

>Also, my mother had me in her mid 40s on the first try. After that, she had another child and hit her menopause in her mid 60s. Zero complications.

Oh wow, lucky woman! I don't know if I'll be that lucky, I was premature and difficult haha.

>After all, would you want to be born knowing your mother didn't really want to have you, but felt pressured?

My mum always loved kids but my parents fully admit that they might not have had me so early if they weren't pushed to by their parents.

No. 205113

I will likely stay CF but something I never thought of happened after my sister had two. She has a totally normal, financially stable marriage and the kids don’t have any issues. But my parents rarely see them. My father is FURIOUS every time my mom invites them to their house, and he gets annoyed every time my mom goes to her house to babysit. We were trying to figure out the last time he saw the kids and it was over six months ago, he didn’t go to their birthday parties and says he will see them on “his time” which is clearly never.

So that’s another thing that reinforced my CF mentality.

No. 205115

That's weird, was he like that when you were kids? Like disinterested until you were old enough to have a normal conversation? Or are her kids just brats?

No. 205117

I don’t think her kids are brattier than others, they are usually fine if they have something to do. They do get picky with food but I think it’s normal for their age.

My dad is an alcoholic though so I think that makes him a worse person to be around on the days he has off since he drinks. He seemed okay when we were really young but once we were in elementary school and started doing things he doesn’t care about (example: I quit playing softball, he grew up as a baseball player) he lost interest in us. The more I type he’s really starting to sound like a narc, too…

No. 205121

Anyone else here who doesn't really care for kids unless they're from immediate family members or close friends? I love my nieces and nephews and I love it when they draw something for me or tell me about school but other than that I'm completely indifferent towards children and would rather not have them around me.

No. 205131

I'm the opposite, I love little schoolchildren and seeing them here and there helping their parents, playing and so on. But the ones in my family are spoiled, entitled little brats and those who aren't addicted to tablets are annoying, snotty and difficult. I genuinely dislike them.

No. 205134

While I'm staunchly childfree I don't think I'd get my tubes tied, I want to avoid medical procedures as much as possible and would preferably only go through necessary (ie.life saving) surgeries. Even if it's not really comparable I understand why some guys don't want to have a vasectomy. Granted I'm not sexually active, maybe I'll change my mind if I ever do.

No. 205135

men who don't want vasectomies are the type to not want children until they're 40+ and then decide they suddenly want them with rotten sperm… don't be like that. if you've already decided to be "childfree" you should at least take a stance that permanently supports your decision not one that lets you breeze on through until you have a crisis and it turns out you actually do want children and you'll have them with old eggs at any cost.

No. 205137

But any procedure for women usually fucks your hormones or body up majorly. Vasectomies do nothing to men.

No. 205138

tubal ligation does not mess with your hormones at all the same way vasectomies don't mess with mens hormones.

No. 205140

I may need to research this more - but there are really no side effects? And it can be reversed?

Then fucking sign me up lol, though I bet it's not easy to get it done at a young age.

No. 205141

>take a stance
I don't have sex, that's enough for now lol. I just don't want to go under the knife, that's all, and I'm 100% certain I'll never want kids, I'm way too autistic and schizoid for that.

No. 205163

No surgery is risk free. So many keyhole surgeries can wreck your intestines because they get irritated or even pierced by equipment. It's not as easy as men's vasectomies because their pipes are not all wrapped up in their guts.

No. 205164

Sorry meant to respond to this

No. 205506

I can’t wait to lose more insecurities and the residual compulsion for male approval as I age. I can’t wait to not have kids, not deal with a dumbass scrote, and be able to do everything I want. There are so many hobbies to explore and new things to learn, and I will have time and sanity for them. My heart really bursts with joy when I sit down and think about this future.

On another note, it’s interesting how most of the anons in this thread are not childfree. Child free isn’t being scared of pregnancy, and it isn’t not having a kid because of money or mental issues. It’s genuinely not wanting a child. But it’s cool, the childless need a space to talk about these things too, and it’s nice to see their perspectives sometimes

No. 205515

You can be mentally ill, poor, etc and still simply not want children.

No. 205516

Nowhere did I say that that isn’t the case

No. 205517

>There are so many hobbies to explore and new things to learn, and I will have time and sanity for them.
Why can't you do this now ? You don't have kids. I have so much time to spend on hobbies and no way am I letting a child ruin that

No. 205518

Oh, I do! And I love it, and am so grateful to live in a time and place where it’s possible. The list of things I want to learn and try is just so long I can’t do them all at once!

No. 205520

File: 1631614564935.jpeg (244.56 KB, 750x968, F44A8357-B7FE-4ED2-90DC-4C4725…)

I've always known that I didn't want to have children, but Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez rid me of all doubt. The chapters about labour really zeroed in on women's unpaid work and the extreme undertaking of adding dependants into your life. Picrel is the passage that officially blew my mind.

No. 205521

I feel like I wouldn't mind that from time to time - but I mean very rarely. Every day sounds like torture. I love the freedom I've worked for (I worked a lot as a young adult to make enough money to finally be financially free), I finally get to enjoy it and I have to now think about abandoning it for a life of a servant?

My parents had a tough time raising me, and I was not a bad kid. Kids are just tough to raise. I don't want that stress.

I sometimes want kids thinking about Christmas, or holidays together etc, but that's just one day of the year. And I think what would stress me the most is worrying about their safety, whether they'd have disorders etc. Helping out at animal shelters or making friends will suit me better than having kids.

No. 205533

I thought it was going to be about labour and delivery, because that alone is fucking terrifying, especially in my country that has absolute a shit public healthcare and a slightly less shitty private care field, that'll usually still disrespect you even if you put down the big bucks. I've read about delivery stories and how fucking anti-mother and pro-doctor's convenience all birth related care is, and no wonder so many women have trauma just from going through with pregnancy, even apart from the literal physical trauma.

No. 205545

You'd think people would care more given how important birth is.

No. 205546

This is exactly how I feel, anon. I broke up with my fiance two years ago, who I was planning on having kids with. I wasn't someone who always knew she didn't want kids–I like kids, don't have a horror of pregnancy, etc. But I didn't really know what sharing a home/life with a man truly meant before living with my ex. On literally the fourth day after it ended, it's like this wave of joy came over me when I realized I could now do whatever I wanted. And then I realized all my buried fears about what things would be like when we had kids had become things I could look in the face, because I was no longer doomed to them. I could admit I was scared, and examine it, and that meant I could truly appreciate what I suddenly had. I want to work to make the world a place where women don't have to give up so much to be mothers, but at the same time, I can't believe how lucky I feel to be able to make this choice.

It's so bizarre to see "lonely crazy catlady spinster" stuff now, because I can't believe how exhilarated I still feel when I think about the fact that my life really is my own, now. I feel so insanely free, so intensely grateful to the women who changed the world so that I can live this, and so excited to do exactly what you described: lose my compulsion for male approval and learn everything I want. I have so much more TIME now. I'm learning to garden! I've gotten really into hiking! I've become such a better cook! I feel so much more CAPABLE, like there really isn't anything I can't learn to do.

What I find most striking is how much older women agree (who 90% of the time have kids and were/are married) with everything I have to say on this. Even ones who are pretty happy with their choices. It's all just made me so much more aware of the fact that tons and tons of women end up locked into choices they can't undo at an early age by having kids, and that there are tons of mothers out there who love their kids, but are also aware of what they lost by having them. I thought I understood why feminists fight for things like abortion rights, education, job equality, and changing things like women's previous inability to have their own bank accounts when I was a teen, but I really didn't. Now I do. And it feels AMAZING.

No. 205557

>Child free isn’t being scared of pregnancy, and it isn’t not having a kid because of money or mental issues. It’s genuinely not wanting a child.
Says who? I don't get why people nitpick what others call themselves. No plan to ever have kids… call yourself childfree if you want. Whether there's certain underlying factors playing a role in that decision shouldn't matter. If you feel ok with that choice and that term feels fitting then use it.

No. 205570

Because they have different, but sometimes overlapping, goals and feelings. Someone who is scared of pregnancy could still even have kids, just adopted. Childless people’s problem is that they want kids, but the world sucks in some way that they choose the responsible thing to do by not having them. And that’s admirable. Childfree people’s problem is that having kids is compulsory, the default.

The childfree label became a way for people who do not want kids ever under any circumstance to find other people who feel the way they do and can relate. Labels are not bad. No one is saying childless are less than child free.

In fact, childless people just thinking that child free just means not having kids because they have fertility issues or because they want to be a responsible parent highlights part of the issue:That having kids is something everyone wants and is the default. People can’t even conceive that simply not wanting a child is a thing, and that you don’t have to feel guilty or messed up for it.

No. 205775

I don't want kids, I've always been very set on that but I'm currently the same age that my mom was when she had her first baby and that's weirdly playing on my mind. I'm turning 33, she had kinda late babies compared to her family, my bro at 33 and me at 38. Now I'm nearing 33 myself and my bro is nearing 38. Oh and she's been dead for a decade.

I think it's less about any bio clock suddenly waking and more about how little I feel I've done with my life? I married and it fell apart pretty quickly. I was grieving the loss of my mom and he left because it was too much for him. Since then anxiety has left my life somewhat stagnant. I know grief is likely still a thing I'm processing to this day but it feels like more than that. Makes me wonder if most women just have a moment like that regardless of loss and regardles of their own intentions to have or not have kids.

Anyone else set on not having kids but still hit with weird feelings on hitting the same age their mom had kids at?

No. 205887

Very well said.
I'm >>158076 and >>199317

Do I wish more people would understand me? Sometimes. All my gay friends understand me. Others have a very hard time understanding deviation from the norm.

No. 205892

Oh, and also some of my family understands me. Love you bro, love you auntie ♥

No. 209684

File: 1634391254917.jpeg (464.1 KB, 828x1240, ABF18241-562A-4619-B5EE-57D660…)

I bought a SEX AID that controls penetration depth for women with pelvic pain (I have flares that can make deep PIV uncomfortable) and get this in my email inbox the other day after months of standard sexual wellness marketing. Breeders will literally do anything to tell the world they got creampied, even hijack the marketing and education email of a glorified cock ring.

No. 209685

I know I shouldn't be grossed out by a pregnant woman's stomach but something about putting that in a newsletter to an unsuspecting reader.. seems inappropriate

No. 209697

File: 1634398659044.jpg (11.95 KB, 441x419, kek.jpg)

>baby ohnut

No. 209701

The angle of that pic is so nasty

No. 209709

but wouldn't you having sex make you into a breeder too? in normal natural bilogical conditions, sex often leds to pregnancy

No. 209710


it's only "breeding" if pregnancy occurs from or is intended in a sex act. thus…

No. 209711

I think a real anti-breeder just doesn't have sex with males tbh

No. 209717

Damn. I've heard of the product and I considered getting one but I'm now between partners so in no rush atm. Some women buying that product are doing so because they had cancer. Some forms of cancer (or cancer treatments) can make you infertile.. they know a portion of women buying this are survivors of those types of cancer because I've seen them mention that on product pages and in ads.

They should have a system where you can opt in to certain emails depending on your reason for purchase. That way infertile women (and just uninterested women) arent sent this shite unless they want it.

No. 209719

Dumb question, but how do people separate PIV from the chance of getting pregnant? I doubt it feels that great for women like it does for men, so why? Even if I liked PIV, my fear of contraception failure would prevent me from even trying.

No. 209729

God I hate seeing pregnant bellies so much, they creep me out.

No. 209747

I mean you can use a condom but why not just use a dildo instead? dildos dont get you pregnant. You could also say "just fingers or outercourse" as in like rubbing his peen on your outer labia and clit but even the thought of having a dick near your pussy feels breeder-ish. You know he would just want to put it inside and make you pregnant. I guess you could circumvent this feeling with a guy with a vasectomy but then again he's going to jizz all inside you and that's what breeders do. Just a thought.

No. 209835

I don't plan on being in a relationship, let alone having a child, but I have a younger brother 17 years younger than me to take care of. He's still in elementary school, easy to take care of but it's so draining, and the parents I'm forced to hang out with (because little bro has way too many friends) just have this jaded look that comes from parenting which terrifies me. I'm more certain than ever that I don't want a child of my own.

No. 210279

I just had my fallopian tubes ripped out so there's literally no path from the uterus to the ovaries for an egg to be fertilized. Was an immense relief, highly recommend for women who 100% know they're childfree. Don't have to fuck about with contraception (with a stable partner) or worry about something going wrong

No. 212435

I went into a public bathroom today to wash my hands, and there was this woman guiding her daughter on the toilet with the door wide open for some reason, so I could heard everything behind me. I realised that having to help a young child in and out of it's clothes and putting it on the toiletseat to get it to pee is just about the last thing I want in life, it's small things like this that make me 100% confident I don't want to have kids, I don't want to take care of one at all.

No. 212595

File: 1636329466990.png (141.9 KB, 500x375, 564545.png)

If I had a child, I wouldn't leave the house with it until it was fully capable of independent movement, speech, personal hygiene etc. Bring back breeching!!
In all seriousness though, I'll never have children, I can't stand them.

No. 212620

No interest in babies or kids, looking at pics of kid, playing with kids, holding babies, knowing small children at all really.
I don't "hate" babies, I mean fuck some are mad ugly but there is 0 interest from me in anything related to children. Also I like my free time and being able to do whatever the fuck I want, hell I don't even want pets because they are a burden on your freedom too.

Anyway, my boss keeps literally arguing with me about how I SHOULD have children and how I'm such a horrible person for not having them and tries to be like "oh if you and boyfriend had a baby it might look like this or be like that or do this" and no matter how many times I say there isn't a baby there won't be a baby I even literally told him I would intentionally kill the child at one point to get him to stop and he still!!! Tries to have these conversations with me like dude I told you I was going to murder a baby wtf lol, he calls me horrible and selfish and how I'm 100% going to have one and when I do he's going to laugh because he was right all along
holy shit, it is a genuine nightmare in my life because I don't get how someone can't just not grasp that people can just not want kids

No. 212637

I thought the last thing bosses wanted were female employees being pregnant, wtf is wrong with him? I've dealt with my fair share of "don't worry you'll change your mind someday" people but they don't insist and never bring the conversation back to the table.

No. 213367

I dont want children but not for the fact that i wanna age gracefully or anything i’m hideous and i’ll always be broke but ever since i was a kid i felt nothing towards them and i never imagined myself a mom. Just never had that desire and i also find it hard to be romantically involved with men. (And women)

No. 213375

Does anyone else here come from a family where you're childfree and all your siblings are too?

I'm not having kids, my siblings are all over 35 now and none are talking about kids. I feel like something was so lacking in my own childhood and I suspect that is why our whole family is essentially ending with us. None of us are family oriented people or very connected with each other. There's no sense of connection with my dad in particular. Our upbringing was cold and like a military thing almost. My mom is long gone but she was an anxious and abused woman. Some people in my position might start a family just to finally feel that 'family feeling' for the first time but I don't desire it. I already worry that my relatiosnhips are unhealthy because bad parenting leaves you with these emotional injuries and it's not a small task to get working on them. I often see people in a simlar situation who rush to start a family partly to fix their own demons but I didn't go down that route. None of us did.

No. 213376

I strongly suspect my sister is, she's tokophobic for sure (but young so idk yet), my uncle is and lives a based life surfing around the world, my dad discouraged me from having kids and says he doesn't want to be a grandad, my mother's never mentioned it. We're not very social and my extended family is tiny so having kids and niblings and grandkids running around never seemed very important or expected of us.

That said it's a different situation to you emotionally, I'm extremely close with my immediate family and that's part of why I don't feel the urge to have kids. There's no void to fill, I don't need a family of my own when I've already got one.

No. 213399

Same situation, very cold dad and doormat anxious abused mom, there was never any family bonding, no talking about feelings or opinions or anything specific to us. All talk was small talk and logistics, or emotional vents from mom.
>already worry that my relatiosnhips are unhealthy because bad parenting leaves you with these emotional injuries and it's not a small task to get working on them
Too many ppl just keep the cycle of abuse going by thinking it'll just work out when they have kids.

No. 213429

I was raised in a similar environment. One of my brothers is an incel, and the other it's too young to tell. Same deal, disconnected dad and an overbearing anxious mom. I don't think my dad has ever called me since I moved out. He is like a guy that just lives with my mom. Another layer, was that my mom treated my brothers and dad like royalty while I was on her "team" and treated harsher. I have so much resentment, scrubbing my brother's caked on piss from the bathroom floors and heat registers. I would rather die than have a son

No. 213454

Nonnie I don't want to scare you but tube ligation isn't 100% safe. Just google and you'll see, I was thinking of doing the same procedure but now I'm having second thoughs about it. Honestly vasectomy is the best, but obviously your partner has to be in the same page as you.

No. 213471

I don’t have any siblings and just one cousin (all other uncles don’t have children), so my family is definitely on the brink of extinction. Perhaps my partner’s sister will become a mother one day so that at least his family will live on, but she recently mentioned that she is not that interested in children, either. I don’t care about passing on our family genes and name, but it is a bit weird that the family perhaps is done. Just yesterday, I was looking at pictures of my grandma and great grandma, some of them dating back to the 1930s, and I wondered what would happen to all these memories when I, the current keeper of them, am gone. I really want to find a solution for that.

To add another perspective to your question about parents, the personal upbringing and being childfree: I have a very close relationship with my parents and often feel anxious about them being old now. I value our time together so much and try to make great memories with them. The close bond we have made me consider children, but I realized that I really enjoy being the daughter in this relationship and the exact bond and dynamic we have, not being a mother myself.

No. 213697

My sister tested dirty so me and my mom are stuck mothering her child again(this is the third one) and i can barely cope. I really don't want to go off the rails again like I did with the second one but I feel like I've finally achieved an extremely delicate stability after this same exact situation sent me off the deep end.

Ive been celibate most of my life and I've had to take care of 3 newborns at this point. It's fucked up like i feel like im barely hanging on myself and finally advancing my life but here comes this extremely stressful situation. My mom can't even lift a newborn so I have no choice but to be involved.

The first kid has really bad behavioral issues and complexes I feel like the way things were when he was a baby has a lot to do with it and it makes me so sad. I thought I might want babies in the future but theses experiences have completely killed my desire to. Having motherhood forced on you as a young person who isn't ready is honestly awful. I must of did something extremely bad in a past life. Like the extremely ironic circumstances of me never getting laid but having to be responsible for 3 newborns is too much. I really hate this and again I hope i don't fall off and start being an extreme drunk again. It's gonna be at least 90 of this. Pray for me.


No. 214161

Honestly, anon, as someone who watched my cousin have to go through the same shit with her sister, your only real option is to tell her next time she gets knocked up, it's abortion or adoption. Or you'll be stuck taking care of her kids forever. If she's this irresponsible, I can almost guarantee this won't be the last kid.

You're a much better woman than me, I wouldn't be helping out in the slightest. Maybe for the first, but no chance after that. Shit like this is why I'm so thankful I don't have siblings to make their awful choices my problem. I feel for you, nonnie.

No. 217548

I don't want kids but I find that I'm only attracted to men who would make good fathers and see it as a red flag if a guy doesn't want them. Is this just some biological bullshit instinct? It's like my rational mind does not want kids but I still seek out good father types.

No. 217550

sounds like you're using it as a shorthand to filter men, which is understandable. but a man could make a good father but still not want kids. stop wasting your time dating men you are ultimately incompatible with and going to have arguments down the line with.

No. 217551

It's like I automatically feel a red flag if he doesn't want them, which conflicts with my decision not to have them. I don't want kids but my stupid body/mind/fuck knows automatically looks for men that do.

No. 217557

Maybe filter for men who don't want kids but are close to their family/nieces/nephews? Good uncles.

No. 217663

Sitting here with my sister listening to her daughter tell her all this boring high school level gossip.
“If you see so and so on instagram blah blah tick tock. Xxx is making fun of me for having no apple watch”
All my sisters and a few of my friends have kids of varying ages.
No matter the age group kids never shut the fuck up about the stupid shit they care about. They expect everyone to think their problems, stupid video games, and idiotic little friends are interesting.
Difficult to have a convo with my friend when her sons want to complain about roblox or fortnite.
Adults are supposed to listen and validate every stupid little feeling kids have. I don’t think I want to be a parent in this age where 10 year olds threaten their parents about calling CPS over ipad time and middle schoolers brigade people online with their friends and high schoolers say they’re vulnerable minors who can’t make big decisions and get jobs yet insist they’re old enough to be championing some stupid ass causes or chopping their tits off.
Kids NEVER stop bitching. They will always expect parents to shut up and hand over resources.

No. 217665

You probably feel a man wiling to care for and nurture a small human would be more sensitive and empathetic of his female partner.

Not true. I have seen plenty men who are decent fathers yet terrible husbands. They might be good providers for the mother which is always a plus. But many times they just see the woman as a utility. They don’t necessarily mistreat her but they just see her as a convenient incubator and care taker for their “legacy”. There are many who cheat on their partners too. They figure they work hard and care for their kids, why shouldn’t they have some fun? If she doesn’t find out, no one gets hurt.

Don’t mistake a good father for a man who sees women as complete human beings.

No. 217704

Good suggestion

You're right… god I honestly hate men, why do I have to be attracted to them.

No. 219873

I really don't want kids. Or at least, I don't want them for a long long time. I'm 24. I hate to admit it but the moids on 4chan and reddit have triggered me with their bullshit about how a woman who doesn't want kids by 21 is useless.

I just read a post from a girl who was asking for tips on finding hobbies and the moids ganged up on her and said she should be looking into starting a family, not wasting her time developing herself outside of that. She was 21. A handmaiden joined in on how she got knocked up 4 times before 20 and she doesn't regret her decision. It devolved into what could be summarised as "have kids by 20 or you're a hag who will die alone with her cats".

Even if I did want kids that young, where am I supposed to find a loyal man who is mature at that age? Oh yes that's right, I should be getting with a 35+ year old at 18 according to them.

sorry for rant. I'm just tired of being brought down solely to a fucking incubator.

No. 219909

Yeah I wanted a girl when I was younger but the constant "you HAVE to have kids" from traditional family really put me off. Especially since I became old enough to realize gen z/young millennial scrotes are 99% messes who want a mommywife. I'd have better luck going to a remote village bribing a cute one and bringing him home.

No. 219938

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I've known I didn't want kids since I was 8, and I'm currently 28. It's very satisfying to see all the "you're gonna change your mind!" crowd eat their words. It's even funnier to see my sister, who's a mother of 3, say shit like "So whenever you hang with us you grow even more sure you don't want kids, huh" whenever their kids misbehave or are grumpy and shit. Damn right. I like my nephew and nieces whenever I see them, but I legit could never take care of them 24/7.
I'd honestly sterilize myself if it wasn't such a pain in the ass process.
My mom said she fears that I won't have anyone to take care of me on my old age like I do for her sometimes, but spoiler for edgy I'd rather kill myself when I am older than to have children and be responsible, even if just emotionally, to other human beings for the rest of my life.

No. 219949

>My mom said she fears that I won't have anyone to take care of me on my old age like I do
The funny thing is, if you had kids you'd probably be too busy with them to look after her. Does she want to double your burden as a caretaker??

No. 220067

nta but I really hate that sort of stuff parents and wanna-be parents say because a) it's terrible to plan and burden someone to be your caretaker, and b) in 90% cases or even more, they only mean to burden their daughters, not their sons.

No. 220087

My parents say that to me and they moved away to another country so they don't take care of their parents lol.

I'm not so fussed about my kids taking care of me, the second I piss myself or can't get out of bed alone I'm offing myself.

No. 220090

>the second I piss myself or can't get out of bed alone I'm offing myself
Eyeroll. No you're not.

No. 220108

I’m 32 and my mother and grandma give me the same shit about being alone and having no one to care for me. Lucky for me, there’s insurance that can help you pay for your care in old age and I’ve saving more money than I’d spend on that by not having kids.

No. 220124

>I'd rather kill myself when I am older than to have children and be responsible, even if just emotionally, to other human beings for the rest of my life.
I share the same sentiment. I told this to my boyfriend who said I should wait a few more years to get a bisalp in case I change my mind (I am relatively young, tbf.) He looked a bit surprised and said “woah, being a bit dramatic, aren’t we?” And I looked him dead in the face and told him I was being completely serious.
Needless to say, we’ve been more diligent about condoms since then!

No. 220143

Yeah there's such things as retirement villages or homes or whatever. It was kind of disgusting hearing how much my mum complained of caring for my grandmother. She was so angry even towards her and just horrible. I'd much rather be surrounded by peers going through the same issues.

No. 220176

I don't know if i want children or not to be honest. Personally, I don't have a desire to have children. I don't relate to my friends when they talk about having baby fever and whatnot. I just don't care for them.
On the other hand, if my future boyfriend/husband wanted children I wouldn't be opposed to it. I just don't care, I don't oppose it and I don't want it. I understand it's a lot of people's wish to continue their bloodline (including my parents') so I get where they're coming from. Though if I am having children it'll definitely be through a C-section because I am not popping anything out of my vagina.
Another concern of mine is giving birth to a child into this sick world that we live in. I think things will only get worse from here with climate change and the general social climate so if I was a born-to-be child I wouldn't want to be born into this world in this state to be honest kek

No. 220179

Agree with absolutely everything.

>Though if I am having children it'll definitely be through a C-section because I am not popping anything out of my vagina.

Doesn't C-section ruin your abdominals and leave a huge scar? As in vaginal birth has a chance of going wrong, but C-section always leave a result like something went wrong.

I'm hugely into fitness and don't want a big scar or ruined stomach, but at the same time I don't want incontinence and a ripped vagina.

No. 220401

Tbh no matter what he tells you, in the majority of cases most of the childcare still falls on a woman. You don't really have the luxury to say you don't care. You will absolutely care when a child you didn't particularly want takes over your entire life. Be careful about what kind of man you pick. I can't stress that enough. Take everything and then some into consideration. It's so easy to become desperately miserable in this situation.

No. 220418

>if my future boyfriend/husband wanted children I wouldn't be opposed to it. I just don't care, I don't oppose it and I don't want it
The last guy I dated, his brother had 3 daughters that he was mostly raising. The mom saw them on the weekends (a reversal of the usual divide of child custody between the genders) When I asked it turned out she had been pretty ambivalent when it came to motherhood. She had the kids more so for him. When they ended she was about as commited to parenthood as a you'd usually expect a divorced dad to be, hence the reversal. Her heart wasn't in it. She was giving 20 percent to motherhood. She was better when they were still together but once the split happened it was clear she wasn't going to be the main parent.

Thing is though, the dad signed up for that yet was bitter as fuck about it. That and the mom had some new bf who wanted babies… so she was about to repeat the whole 'well if you want them I guess we can' plan. It was beyond messy. Sad for the kids. My ex and the bro constantly bashed her for not being a full on mommy but she was only on par with the same shit men do every day. Bad decisions all round.

No. 220426

That sucks because I feel kids suffer more if they have a bad mother vs a bad father. idk.

I can't imagine shitting out 3 kids that I'm ambivalent about though. Going through all that body horror for something meh.

No. 220441

nta but I was born via C-section, my mom's scar is very faint and she never had any health complications from it

No. 220469

Show them what's what by dumping them in shitty retirement homes. Imagine having kids because you want a caretaker when you're old.

No. 220471

File: 1640926584936.png (168.18 KB, 909x616, as.png)

Reminds me of picrel

No. 220512

The only thing that isn't based about the mom is she caved into the moid's wishes. Should've had an abortion, but then we wouldn't have had this sweet revenge.

No. 220515

I wouldn't have a baby even if I were rich with nannies. I hate kids so much, unapologeticly, in every way. If I were male I would already have a vasectomy done. I always knew that I was childfree even as a child myself. My mom once told me, after a random convo about it, "How could I ever approve of your choice?" I don't know, just let me live without snide comments?

No. 220518

Same, fuck. And men always try to talk to me about having kids, even on the first date. Isn't the stereotype to not talk to guys about kids because? Why are they trying to see if I'll be their mommy bangmaid on the first date.

No. 220523

I'd rather get this out of the way quickly to be honest, rather than starting to feel it and then finding out he wants 3+ children or something.

No. 220534

even if i wasn’t too loving of my free time to want a kid i would be put off by the idea of birthing a severe autist or some other disabled thing. or just a psychopath who abuses me later in life

also i would probably abort a male child

No. 220538

As the other anon said, it's probably best to get this out of the way early, so you don't get led on. Yeah it's a weird topic for the first date but you will also know not to waste your time on that guy.

No. 220541

I watched a doc a while back where a man did this, he told the woman to just give birth and he'd look after the baby for the rest of its life as a solo parent. She was in college destined to get a great job and she hated kids, she also no longer wanted anything to do with this guy. For some reason she agreed and gave birth. The doc was made while the kid was only about 2 years old. It featured the guy admitting he regretted doing it. His elderly parents helped out with the raising.. provided alot of free help. He just acted like a victim. Talked about how being a single parent is about he most depressing thing on earth. He wants to date but the baby gets in the way? He got exactly what he asked for…exactly what he pressured and forced her into through guilt tripping. Someday that kid will be old enough to know his dad essentially went on camera wishing he'd never been born. He forced him into this world only to wish he didn't have the burden of him taking up his life.

He admitted that deep down he thought the mom who agreed to never meet the kid.. would somehow come around, raise it and maybe even be his partner again?? That wasn't what they agreed to at all. What kind of fucked up manipulation is that. I would say that I'm glad it backfired but then I feel too much for the kid.

No. 220551

My mom was in her early 20s when my father got her pregnant. He was in his 40s and married, and only got divorced and married mom when I was 19 and my brother turned 3 (yes they created another bastard child, what the hell). My father was an alcoholic and a gaslighting abuser, but mom had to depend on him because she's a domestic helper and would be deported back to her home country if my father stops being the guarantor of her dependant visa. This background really fuels my hatred of men, disgust of forming a family, and refusal of being in a relationship at all.

I have a brother to help raise, he behaves but the misogyny is already showing and I don't bother to correct him because it's inherent, which really solidifies my stance on having no children.

No. 220552

Please help change him, how old is he? Young kids are impressionable and can change

No. 220553

I like children in small doses, am ironically pretty good with them, and they like me back. I just feel similarly to pets; cute and fun in small doses, but I really do not want more responsibility. My mom's side seems to have some problems giving birth and I don't want health complications. Also my body is pretty decent. My vanity triumphs.

No. 220556

He's 9, would not shut up about marrying his mom and sister, insists on calling all females of any age a good girl/nice girl, calls me out for not wearing dresses like a regular girl, malds when a girl wouldn't be his girlfriend on Roblox etc., even when corrected multiple times. Everyone thinks it's cute because he's a child, but I think he's a lost cause, even if he acts right later in life I wouldn't know if he's just disguising.

No. 220559

Maybe you gotta expose him to a male role model who treats women well, or at least better than this kek

Could be a tv character too.

No. 220580

I feel zero sympathy for retards like this, this never would've happened if he just accepted that she wanted an abortion (she should've just done it anyway tbh). but i'll admit stuff like this and >>220541 gives me major schadenfreude kekk

No. 224837

My sister is pregnant under shitty life circumstances and she's always been broody so she's definitely having this baby.
Obviously her choice but I already pity this kid. She is mentally ill, obese, lives a total hikikomori hermit lifestyle with few social skills, has a shitty job and lives in a tiny apartment with a special needs dog. She will definitely move back to our mother's house for free childcare.
Talking to our mother about this, that I'm worried about her and this future child's quality of life, I got a lecture that "being a mother is her purpose in life" and my mother has been depressed and empty since her kids left home because she thinks it's her only destiny to take care of her kids.
The best part is she did a pretty bad job raising us lmao and resents me for being independent, now I see why. I guess I should be more like my other sister who's an alcoholic always borrowing money, what a good daughter letting our mother express her maternal destiny.
I asked my mother: what about having another purpose? Art? Making people's lives better? She waved that question away.
I'm not saying I have a superior destiny (or any destiny) but fuck, I find joy in music, in my friendships, in doing a good job at work, caring for my pets. All those things fulfill me and make me feel purposeful.
Anyway the point of this rant is, I'm glad I'm child free and don't need to make a whole new person just so I feel like my life isn't pointless.

No. 224840

No. 224842

Bait better, scrote

No. 224846

don't you have asses to wipe?

No. 224850

I relate to a lot of the people in here, I’ve always said I don’t want kids from an early age, had adults tell me “you’ll change your mind” I’m 22 now and feel even more strongly about not having any of my own. My best friend’s mom took me in when I was 18 and was also a foster parent so I took care of a lot of kids while staying there, the amount of dirty diapers I had to change over the course of those few years was enough to solidify my decision to not want kids.

No. 224852

To add on to this, if I decide to date again I’m gonna be so careful about being up front about not wanting kids. My ex who I broke up with for multiple reasons also wanted kids, and his response to me not wanting them was “you aren’t willing to make that sacrifice for me?” like, what? Of course not. He’s never even changed a diaper or had to look after a child before, he didn’t even start doing his own laundry until recently lol what makes him think he automatically can care for a child.

I feel like everyone should have to take care of one for a year and then they can make the decision to have children. They always say the same things “who’s gonna take care of you when you’re old?” “What about leaving something behind when you’re gone”. If I’m dead then obviously I won’t care, nothing will matter then anyways and there’s no guarantee that your child will look after you when you’re old, look at all the people in retirement homes with kids who don’t even visit. It’s just not worth it unless you 100% want it.

No. 224855

>I'm 22 and I know what I want for the rest of my life!
At 22 your brain isn't even fully matured yet.

No. 224857

It's like 3 years away from maturing calm down lol. People have kids, choose carreers, marry and make other long-term commitments before brain maturity all the time but a 22 year old would somehow not be able to know for sure that she wants to remain childfree for life? Come on now. Interesting how these "you'll change your mind" "you're too young to know for sure" are always one-way and never directed to those who do want kids.

No. 224860

The reason people tell you "you will change your mind" is because most people do change their mind. In fact most people don't think about kids or want kids until their late 20s/early 30s. I am sure a lot of them (myself included) were TOTALLY SURE that they would NEVER want kids when they were in their early 20s. It's just too soon for you to know what you will want in 10 years. A lot changes during your 20s and a lot of personality development happens, you literally have no clue what kind of person you will end up as.

No. 224864

>because most people do change their mind.

>It's just too soon for you to know what you will want in 10 years.

Then the other way around would be equally true too but again, no one tells a 20's woman "don't have kids yet, you may change your mind when you're 30!"

No. 224865

so you got memed into having kids at 30 instead of 20 and think you're more enlightened than anyone here kek

No. 224867

I had never even humored the thought of having kids until my ex brought it up and it was an immediate reaction of “no that’s not the kind of future I want” I’m okay with being alone. But I understand that’s what everyone is gonna say when they’re young and don’t want kids, so I’m used to people saying I’m gonna change my mind lol.

No. 224868

Stop shitting up the thread, this is not the place to have this discussion. I don't go into the babytalk thread either telling anons "D-don't try to get preggo yet 22 y/o anon, you may change your mind, it's too soon for you to know what you want in your early 20s!! Lots of women regret having kids!!"

No. 224875

30 here, I don't want any kids and won't have any as I'm pretty much still a mentally ill teenager on the inside. I will not pass the trauma plus genetical fuckery. I also haven't lived yet and want to stay myself and not morph into a Moominmamma. A dog is challenging enough.

No. 224877

>One-quarter of women in the NLSY-79 cohort ever reported an expectation for childlessness but only 14.8 percent of women remain childless.

It's literally the most normal thing in the world to change your mind about. In your 20s you are still busy figuring out your own life, experimenting, going through a lot of maturing and changes. Of course you aren't thinking about having kids. Plus you probably haven't found anyone yet with whom you would want to have kids.

I have no issues with people who chose not to have kids, but saying you know FOR SURE at 22 that you will never have kids is just immature and retarded and older people tell you that you will change your mind because they were just as immature and retarded as you as one point.

No. 224881

kek the ugly truth

No. 224889

The point of this thread is to discuss not wanting children and general stressors that come with the expectation that woman must become mothers - whether or not some anons will change their minds at a later date isn't really relevant to the discussion. If someone didn't want children before but later decide they do, that's fine, but there will still always be women who are childfree and they should have a place to talk about it without derailing posts like these.

No. 224900

Anyway, at what age did it click that you realize you didn't want children and did a significant event happen to cause it? I've always been uncomfortable around babies and very young children for as long as I can remember and I always found myself disgusted by pregnancy. I'm only a few years shy of 30 and I've never wavered in my decision, I look forward to my future.

No. 224901

What that tells me is that a lot of those women just had unplanned pregnancies. Many people end up going through with having kids just because they happened to get knocked up and say, “well I guess we’ll just be parents now.” They don’t actually put much thought into the decision because they think it’s just something you’re supposed to do as an adult.

For what it’s worth I’m 30 and my opinion on not wanting kids has not wavered in the slightest since I was 22, not even after finding “the right man” (he also doesn’t want kids kek). Some people change their mind, some don’t.

No. 224907

I never found the idea of having a child appealing even as a child myself (hated baby dolls and Barbies). Now in my 30s, never once did my stance waver. Had a tubal ligation a couple years back and it was the biggest relief of my life.

No. 224913

Yeah I mean it's just a fact of life, every childfree person knows someone who insisted they were cf and ended up not being (there is constant complaining about it).

I don't need the majority of people to also be cf for validation and I don't need reassurance that I'll never change my mind, I can only hope that if I do my entire personality also changes by then. My current personality should not have a kid. That said the study shows that the older you get, the more accurately you predict not having kids and I'm 30 so it's probably pretty certain by now.

No. 224916

I don't know if I want kids or not. I'm in my mid-20s and so is my boyfriend who also does not want kids, or at least is not sure, but I'm genuinely lost. Will I really change my mind when I hit 30? It seems like such a foreign idea to truly truly want children.

No. 224919

I'm 36. No lie. Every day of my life I feel blessed its so easy. I have so much money. Why would anyone give this up!?! Are people nuts?? You can take off to go skiiing on a whim like that and say fuck y'all, I'm long gone. There is so much to do, you'll never scratch everything off your bucket list, you don't have enough days in your life.

No. 224922

deleted because i didn't add my age, but probably around the same time i'd realized i'm not interested in things like dating or sex in general, in my teens

to me its another thing most women are pressured to do that i'm not interested in doing, plus the thought of losing autonomy that way is disturbing. i know it's never going to happen/tinfoil but i don't want my uterus harvested for children in any way shape or form, for women or failed men

No. 224930

22 y/o anon here, I feel the same way about dating. The ex I mentioned before was my first/only boyfriend and the idea of being in a romantic relationship hasn’t sat well with me since middle school. I mostly tried to be in a relationship to test myself to see if I would want to be in one and I absolutely hated it. Men aren’t attractive to me, even celebrities who I think look nice I wouldn’t want to be in an actual relationship with them. And I’m not attracted to women either.

No. 224932

I’d say 20, altho i have been saying it since i was way younger than that but people (especially girls my age at the time) would scoff and brush me off or tell me i was edgy for saying those things. I was wholeheartedly serious. I did internalize it though since it came from other girls, But at 20 is when i didn’t really care about other’s opinions about my choices and became honest with myself dont want them dont need em

No. 225040

Agreed. I have so many reasons against having children, but the simple "I just want to be free" is by far the most important one to me. I can’t imagine constantly having to think about a child and cater to their needs while neglecting my own. These days I take a bath every night and watch my favorite show or listen to ASMR. This is a simple moment of joy in my day and I don’t want this to be taken away from me. All the planning, arranging, and supervising sounds horrifying. I believe that people can find joy in this as well, but it’s just not for me. I agree that people and their opinions change, but the older I get, the more I value how my life is and how I can do everything I want every day.

No. 225044

always, i always knew i never wanted kids. it's horrible for so many reasons. i have never considered having kids once. nothing is appealing about it to me, and i can't imagine creating another person capable of suffering when there are already so many people suffering today. i want to help animals and people that are here and suffering today, not potentially create more suffering. i never felt uncomfortable around babies and children, i just personally never wanted any of my own.

No. 225046

i've had people tell me i'm going to change my mind for like 17 years. some people are just very decided on what they want from life and what they absolutely do not want.

No. 255616

Kids annoy me. Absolutely nothing about having kids sounds fun. I guess having family dinners and a big family sounds quite nice, especially when you're older, but that's it. I'd much rather just have a husband I can travel with and do whatever whenever we want, and hang out with my cousins' kids when I feel like it, then leave when they start being annoying.

My parents act like I'm some sort of degenerate for not wanting them, my grandma would have a heart attack if I told her I never wanted them, and I already know I'll have dusty spinster status once I turn 30 within my family.

I'll have a ton of money and free time tho so shrug

No. 255643

I was hit with a weird sudden realization about wanting kids the other day. It wasn't like a biological urge to have kids at that moment but I was just thinking about the concept and it hit me. In a way, I think some people use kids as a way to relive their childhoods. Esp for people who've had rough upbringings, I could see how wanting to start a family to mend a bad childhood could happen.
It doesn't always work out that way,and could be a selfish reason for wanting them, but it made me pause to think about for a while, esp in my family situation.

I'm still a long ways off if I ever do want them, I would need to be financially stable, have my own place and a partner I completely trusted to help me with it. I would have to adopt or ifv because I don't want to be with a man but that's a road I'll have to travel if I ever get there. I know for sure right now I am not patient enough nor do I want to sacrifice my free time & energy into a child. It's not a decision I would take lightly and have to thoroughly discuss with my partner if it was ever on the table.

No. 255647

Having a child, like doing anything, is a selfish act because you do it for yourself. It's also selfish to spend your money on literally anything or even work just to earn money. Just because something is selfish doesn't mean it's inherently bad. I also don't want to have a husband and that's why I'm on the fence about kids. Although I do want a child one day, I think it'd be so much harder when you have a woman as your partner. I believe women are better at parenting but even then it's scary to think about how you or your child could get alienated or judged for even deciding to have a child in such a relationship unless you're in a big city in a first world country.

No. 255680

No. 255720

I had to have an abortion in October and it's just now starting to hit me. I don't want to sound crude, but the moral side of it doesn't bother me at all, I was only 5 weeks along and I see it more as curing an ailment that I was dealing with. But I was given the choice whether to take a pill and have the abortion at home, or come in to the medical offices for the procedure. I chose to do it at home and I greatly regret it. I wish the doctor had warned me about how potentially traumatizing it would be. Standing in my shower for hours while huge chunks and sacs(?) of tissue fell out of me. I had to help one of the chunks down the drain… After all that, I went in for a checkup and there was still matter inside of me so I had to get the vacuum procedure as well anyways (I was thankfully unconscious). The experience at the PP office was not good. Of course there were protestors outside which was mildly stressful, but my bf and I had to wait for 7 hours at the office until I was seen. I felt like I just wanted to get it over with like any minor medical procedure but when I got into the operating room I got so scared and I felt so alone, I was crying and it was weird bc the female nurse and mape doctor seemed surprised? that I was so scared and crying. When I woke up in the recovery room I am embarrassed by the way I cried out and cried that I wanted my bf, even though I know that is totally reasonable behavior. While I was loopy from anesthesia, I asked the nurse if I could still smoke weed that day despite being put under anesthesia which embarrasses me so much (even though it's kind of funny). To top it all off, my bf and I got into a nasty fight on the way home because I was chastising him for not being comforting enough on the drive home. One other minor thing is that I could tell my bf had a little bit of pride and he would have kept the pregnancy if I had agreed to. We are in our early 30's abd have discussed at length that we will have a childfree life. I don't regret my decision at all because I would never ever ever go through with a pregnancy and birth, but it does make me feel sad for him hurting, even though I know he's fine now and not pike, pining for his dead child or whatever. Idk what the point of this post is but nonnas if you ever get the choice, have the procedure performed for you in a medical office.

However when I was crying in the post-op room, the most amazing thing happened: I was separated by a curtain from the woman recovering next to me, and I swear we both grabbed each other's hand at the same exact time through that curtain, even though we couldn't see the other one raising her hand to be held. I love women.

I just like, lived through it, you know? But now looking back I feel so sad for myself going through that all alone (in the sense that it was happening to me; to my body. my bf of course was there the whole time to help me). I didn't tell my mom until afterwards and I wish I had told her sooner so she could help comfort me, which I know she would have. Anyways, thanks for taking time to read this. I am doing well now and I do not regret my decision to have an abortion and am in fact extremely grateful that I was able to save my life (as I know it and as I want it to remain) by doing so. Love to any nona who has gone through the same or similar circumstances ♥

No. 256488

I want a super tight knit group of childfree friends. I want to travel with my friends and childfree bf/husband. I want to hold dinners together and gossip. I want to grow old together.

Unfortunately I can't find childfree friends. I can't believe how you only have a few years of early adulthood before "WhERE'S OuR GRANDChild WHY DOes EVEYRone else WANT kiDS aND OURRRR CHILD Doesn'T???" starts.

I also find growing a living being inside you then pushing it out incredibly, incredibly unappealing and even offensive to think about.

No. 256489

I hope you feel okay now nonna, or better at least. Thank you for taking the time to share this

No. 256494

File: 1649973443554.jpeg (62.04 KB, 625x833, hugs .jpeg)

I'm so sorry you had to go through that, nonnie. I'm glad you have a supportive partner and family members. Please feel better soon.

No. 256614

That's weird that you can't find child free friends, most people in my circle (late 20s) don't want any, I thought millennials mostly didn't want kids.

No. 256820

I'm finding it tricky to find long lasting loyal friends, let alone child free ones. Most say they don't want kids but then "oh it just happened and we decided we did want him!"

No. 256822

Same nonnie. I had a close group of friends who all said they didn't want kids and now that we're in our 30s they're all pregnant or have an infant. I'm the only one who's single and childfree. And they're all telling me "you might change your mind, I did" "at first I didn't want them but once I gave birth I was in love with my baby, you should just try anon". And because they had children my parents are nagging me to find a man and pop out a kid.
I miss going out with them, now they're all too busy with their spawn and moids. We had all planned to go to a particular country next year but I highly doubt it's going to happen and if it does they'll probably bring their families even though it's just for us alone.

No. 256832

>"you should just try anon"
Wtf a kid is not like food you've never tasted, what if you try having a baby and end up not liking it, what happens? This is the dumbest argument I've heard.

No. 256976

Honestly looking back throughout my whole life I have never had any real maternal instinct or some sort of "want" to take care of or birth and raise a child. Even when I was a kid myself I went straight to Bratz and Barbies instead of taking care of those baby doll things that make that awful crying sound and fake poop themselves (baby annabelle? Can't remember the name but those creepy ones you'd get from Argos)
Unfortunately I'm from a family that has apparently never heard of condoms before so my brothers both have kids even when they shouldn't have had them (not financially stable, in and out of employment etc). I spent most of my time from ages 8-18 being holed up in my room trying to drown out the sound of a council house full of crying, screaming misbehaving and unregulated kids - not flushing the toilet after themselves, my mother letting them eat junk food right before bed and also screaming and getting angry at nothing. It painted an incredibly negative image of kids for my developing self, plus the fact I just didn't have any "mom" instinct and I soon learned that nah, that life is not for me.

I'll admit I think pregnant women look cute and I do enjoy to see actually good mothers raising kids, but I also feel absolutely nothing towards children nor do I ever picture having one in my future. I picture my cat living until he is in his 20s and having a spoiled life, I picture going travelling and painting the walls of a house with my boyfriend once we stop renting (if that ever happens kek), I picture being able to do absolutely anything with utmost freedom in life without having to think, "Shit I have a kid I need to re-arrange xyz". It just seems incredibly draining for those who are not naturally good parents, and let's admit most people aren't; no one can be perfect of course, but too many parents are selfish narcissists who project their insecurities on to their children, and too many fathers think they can just disappear as soon as shit starts to get even remotely difficult.

I remember my sister-in-law telling me "Never have kids, nonnie" almost every time she'd come around to pick them up from my mother's house and I'd just stand and think…why the fuck do you have them if you think that way? Why did you have them if you're going to either neglect them, shout at them, or just shove them onto my mum because you want to go shopping? It's absolutely absurd to me that people gasp and flinch whenever you openly talk about abortion but apparently being open about regretting the fact you had kids is acceptable because you're a shitty parent? I don't understand it, if not for the societal expectation for women to have children regardless of if they're ready or not.

No. 256983

They're under the impression that once I have a child of my own I'll naturally fall into the role of "mother".

No. 257084

Reading women my age commenting about their bio clock turning on 1-2 years ago, and how they're voluntarily trying to get pregnant just feels like we're living in completelely different world sometimes. I do not hate kids, but I do not see myself as a mother at all. Also I can already barely handle low sleep or low mood, if I had a newborn I'd probably chuck it out the window.

No. 257627

Kids can be cute and all but honestly getting married and having kids seems like an awful, awful deal for women. No matter how good the man is we'll always end up with the most work, while he'll lose all sense of romance and sit there scratching his balls and complaining on reddit that you dared gain 5 lbs of baby weight.

Like unless the man is incredibly clean and hygienic, does a ton of work around the house and doesn't lose his passion for me over the course of at least 3 years, I am not even going to consider marrying him.

Look at this fucking shit, why would I ever live with a man? My house is clean, smells nice, I'm free and don't have to clean after anyone, why would I invite a scrote into it?

No. 257846

the bio clock is a proven myth

No. 257849

Stayed with my cousins family for Easter weekend and wow what an affirmation of my child free choice.
They have two preteen girls. Each member of the family is perfectly fine, sweet and smart but put them all together and it's chaos 100% of the time. Every meal, every outing, every interaction with a phone or the TV is a huge battle. They are all mean and whingy to each other. The parents try to set rules but the kids are old enough to find loopholes and play them off each other.
I'm not saying they're bad people, or that nobody should have kids. It just reminded me I don't have the strength. I fight these battles inside myself with my own mental illness and trauma behaviors, I can't imagine fighting to raise a kid in this world, day in day out, for decades. I'm not exaggerating, I'd literally rope.
Very grateful to be in a world where childbearing is an option and not mandatory for me. Thank God I was educated enough about sex and contraception to opt out.

No. 257855

One of my coworkers is pregnant and just the sympathy pains I'm getting is reason #50000 kids just aren't happening for me.

No. 258355

As childfree, do you feel less scared about aging knowing that you don’t have to worry about having kids at a certain age, or any “deadline”? I know the wall is a dumb myth, but still.

I realized I’m not scared of aging because I won’t be having kids. No deadline to meet a man and give birth, no fear of loss of beauty (as no stress from kids, more money for skincare plus I age well anyway and I think older women can look really elegant and hot), no fear of loss of freedom (again, no kids to ruin my freedom and I work from home so I can travel anytime anywhere). The pros list just goes on. Things will only get better as opposed to worse. My freedom, beauty, money, etc will only grow.

I don’t like that I’ll have to watch my parents get old and that my health will eventually decline in a few decades (24 now), and I also don’t like how worse men get in character and looks as they age (I can’t imagine dating a crusty 35 year old), but that’s it.

No. 258364

I'm in my 30s now and I've found myself caring way less about my appearance than when I was in my 20s. It might be that now I'm older I've stopped caring as much what men think about me since I know they're not worth the effort. Probably why men don't like women my age lol. And since I don't want children I'm not worried about getting married and having kids by a certain age (yes women can children at older ages but first time pregnancies at a much older age tend to be more high risk). Makes me feel freer.
And as for aging parents I'm even more glad I don't have children because I'd have to take care of them and my children and my husband which would absolutely stress me out. Right now I'm taking care of my grandmother and I can't imagine having children to take care of in addition to her.

No. 258377

I'm not really concerned with aging in general, at worst I'm concerned about my health decreasing not my looks. I can't say for certain I would've been more concerned if I did want kids but I can't say that me not being concerned with aging is directly tied to being childfree.

No. 258526

same. i can't imagine having a kid in the next few years. 23 and i barely graduated and started a job, which doesn't even make enough to support a child. there's so little time to be financially stable before you're 30 (since mid-20s and early 30s is the more ideal time to have kids).
it seems stressful for the women that do want to find partners to have kids with (not that women can't adopt, but most want to be married with a biological kid).
and ngl, i am thinking that aging well is a positive. it's not my only reason (i mainly want freedom and i do not like the current climate), but it's a plus that i will look nice and also not have to worry about the possible health complications that come after childbirth. it sucks that women have to experience incontinence or pains afterwards. that possibility scares me and i do not want kids bad enough for that.

No. 258538

I am a little over 30 and I always knew I never wanted children.
It doesn't matter what age they are. Baby are loud, gross and so, soo ugly. Toddlers are annoying, loud and gross. Kids are annoying, stressfull. Teenagers are stressfull, ungreatfull and obnoctios.
Is it their fault? No of course not. I just really don't like them, so wouldn't it be better for me not to have them if the stage they are in doesn't matter for me?
For many people it doesn't. The fact that I can't handle children and get angry at crying babys. "It is different, when it is yours." For me that is just plain ignorant and dangerous. No, it doesn't have to be different and then? Then they have to live with a mother that hates them, would that be fair for them? No one thinks about it.
They cost, like many saied, a lot of money, time and nerves. I don't have any of that.
If people come with the argument of: "Who will take care of you, when you are older?" Have never took care of a older person. If you have experienced it you wouldn't wish that on anyone. Those people have often shoved they mother already in a place far away from them.
I plan on going to travel to a land where you are assist dying is allowed. Even if I had children, I would never want them to take care of me.
What makes me a little upset is, when I tell people that I don't like children, they think I change my mind. BUT whenn I use a more harsher wording, like "I really dislike them." Or something, because I really don't want to have anything to do with children, they always asume I am horrible psychopath who likes to poison toddlers, pushing strollers infront of a Train or car etc. You name it.
Just because I really dislike children, doesn't mean I wish them harm. Do I want to be far as possible away from them? Yes. Do I hate when they are screaming in the subway. Yes. Do I wish that they can play happily outside, of course. You get it.
I don't want to hold your baby, yes even if you are from my family.
Even with all that, my absolute biggest problem I have, which makes me very angry when people say that is:
"You won't know what it feels like to truly love someone and be truly loved by someone, if you don't have a child."
Oh, so… my love to my mother is no real love. The love to my grandparents is no real love. The love YOU have for your partner is no real love? Your pets? Friends? All not real love? Okay..
I would not have any problem if they say it is a very special and specific love. With that I am fine. But to say it like that is just so arrogant. So dismisiv of all the others types of love there is. That makes me really angry and what is with the parents that did not love their child? Tell me… But they never do.
Last but not least, I hate people who meet someone, get married and have a baby within 3 years and make then a suprise pikachu face when the relationship is not working. Jesus take time with your partner and first see what they are for a type. BUT NOOO.
Also what's up with the phenomenon of as soon as a horrible person has a child, they are seen as so good?
My stupid cousin had an accitend child with a really, really horrible woman. Did he got in truble? Did his mother scold him? No, because baby. The woman, of course she is part of the family now. It doesn't matter that she is not only lazy, incompetend, egosistic and hurt my aunt on purpose by telling her at the beginning she will never see her grandchild. But oh no all good. Because baby.
Men have no idea about children and pregnancies, but it was good explained from other annos, so I won't go in details.
Pregnancies too, no one would want to go though that willingly if nature would not shit in hour brain.
I have met only 2 woman, who I though were very good mothers. All others, just no.

Sorry for this much text, but I think it had to get out of my system.

No. 258543

Why do so many childfree women always talk about how children make you age bad and get ugly? There are much worse consequences for women if the father doesn't support her but childfree women always talk about how unfuckable women become after they give birth or age beyond a certain point. Is it because they saw their fathers or other men treat their wives this way?

No. 258544

Based. I know a couple in their early thirties. The mother gave birth to her child the natural way and she has a bunch of health issues now & both of them now look 40. Don't have children esp. if you are a woman. You will be stressed 24/7, tied to a scrote forever and will get a bunch of health issues. Get your tubes tied if possible because i fertility is freedom esp with abortion rights getting taken away from women rn.

No. 258549

Are we supposed to suddenly be free of any vanity or desire to look and feel good when the possibility of a child arises? People want to look good, it's not a crime. And cf women are more likely to notice the hideous hypocrisy of men telling us we absolutely must get married and have kids or we'll be alone and unwanted, then ditching their wives for gaining weight and caring less about their looks after having kids.

No. 258550

When childfree women trash on women's look and age when they are already struggling because raising a child is hard, I get a bad taste. You're almost repeating men's hatered for their wives and how much they dislike the changes pregnancy brings. It's never about women's psychology or how to better the experience for women but how childfree women are somehow superior, don't age as quickly or look better. Looking young and beautiful no matter what is expected of women because of misogyny, stop supporting scrote agenda and acting like it's freeing.

No. 258552

Yes, I'm not so much worried about the wall or beauty, but I am worried about it affecting my body and aging me faster that way. I want to be able to travel and hike, I don't want urinary incontinence and destroyed pelvic floor muscles, while a pelvic floor therapist isn't even covered by insurance (absolutely criminal imo and very fucking sexist). It also somehow affect's women's memory and I really don't want swiss cheese brain. My grandma lost all her teeth due to pregnancy, had hair loss and other scary shit happening. I know women who had post partem depression and/or psychosis. I would never want to risk all of that. I don't get why pregnancy and having children is still so popular with other lesbians.

No. 258556

I'm not and never have been concerned with aging honestly, I have a lot of insecurities but growing old isn't one of them as it's completely unavoidable childfree or not. I do however enjoy knowing I won't have any pelvic floor issues or health problems related to having kids.

Maybe this is just me but I've never seen women look older after having kids. They look tired, more natural and maybe they gained weight sure, but not older…I think that has more to do with their health and genetics overall than just pregnancy.

No. 258557

Nta I get where you're coming from but she didn't only bring up looks, she also discussed freedom, financial resources, flexible schedule, being able to focus on your own desires, health, etc. If anything you're the one hyperfixating on appearance. Like I'm sorry but it's just a fact that many women deal with health issues when it comes to pregnancy and it's dismissive not to consider the changes that occur to one's body. That's not to say women can't get through it or still look good afterwards, but anon was talking about the typical scenario where the man basically does nothing but gets all the glory of being a father with minimal childrearing. The mom is then not only dealing with potential health problems but parenting her children and a grown ass man while holding down the household and often working as well. That's going to age anyone before their time. There are exceptions sure, but those women are either very genetically lucky, paired with one of the 10 decent men in the world, or a combination of both.

No. 258558

>My grandma lost all her teeth due to pregnancy, had hair loss and other scary shit happening. I know women who had post partem depression and/or psychosis. I would never want to risk all of that.
Same here, my great grandma lost teeth. My aunt developed an immune disorder and has experienced chronic pain ever since she had my cousins. One of her kids had a miscarriage and almost died from it. Another developed long-term melasma. All the mothers I know developed some level of incontinence. I have no desire for children but if I did I'd much rather go through the trouble of adoption and take in one of the millions of children already in the world seeking homes than add a new life to the mix while risking so much of my own health.

No. 258561

I agree that women suffer from health issues after pregnancy and I wish those were the only issues people talked about. I do have a bit of bias because whenever I see childfree women, they usually bring up aging and looks degrading but that's just what happens when you age… You can't change the fact that we age but you can definitely prevent some health problems or at least inform women so they won't be as traumatized by them.
I've seen childfree women on here who kept saying how loose women get, fat they get, etc. After pregnancy so admittedly I did hyperfixate on it because it reminded me of that one anon I saw before. She also called any pregnant woman ugly whales and said she wanted to pop their bellies or something.

Overall disgusting misogyny against pregnant woman is allowed to slide. When they're not the ones in fault for the most part.

No. 258564

>All the mothers I know developed some level of incontinence
Exactly, so why the fuck are physical therapists covered by mandatory insurance, except for pelvic floor therapists. Not just mothers need it, but also older women, women with vaginismus etc. Aaah I'm going insane

No. 258565

>Overall disgusting misogyny against pregnant woman is allowed to slide. When they're not the ones in fault for the most part.
I agree. As someone who has no desire for pregnancy or children, it's still really vile the gross, borderline sociopathic comments pregnant women get. I've always thought to be much kinder to a pregnant woman.

No. 258590

I'm sure these comments aren't being made to pregnant women's faces, on the internet we're free to unload though. Pregnancy is genuinely disgusting, and its effect on a woman's body is disgusting. Doesn't mean I don't respect women for going through all that mess, I just feel kind of disgusted by it, and honestly a little sorry for them

No. 258591

>Pregnancy is genuinely disgusting, and its effect on a woman's body is disgusting.
I've seen a lot of women say this on reddit, that pregnant women get fat and ugly and stuff. Then I check their post history and they're always the ugly hambeasts themselves, kek. The only women who would put down pregnant women's looks when they're struggling are ogre looking bitches and no, their fat filled stomachs always look way more disgusting than actual pregnant women.

No. 258593

Not even saying they're ugly, just that pregnancy is disgusting.

I don't like how pregnant bellies look, I think another body growing inside you is creepy as fuck, and don't get me started on the horror show that is birth.

No. 258594

Nta but I think you might've missed the point?

It's not about "getting fat" and "looking fat" but rather everything else? Your organs moving to make space for the baby, it moving inside you and growing etc etc

No. 258596

giving life, solely being the domain of females and using such terms for it. sad. you are unloading for what? are pregnant women up your ass offline telling you to compliment them or else? needless harsh comments, not much different from men and how much pregnancy is still seen taboo and gross in places. i hope you are young. sorry for derailing, my first and last post on this.

No. 258598

Pregnancy is disgusting but admirable - does that make it better? I think it's pretty awesome how we can grow life, but I don't like how horrible the process is.

No. 258600

This. I'm not planning on having children but most women I know struggle with self image issues during pregnancy and NLOG childfree women shit on them for male approval all the time. Not all childfree women do it, of course but the unfortunate looking pickme ones do it so often it's become tiring.
Considering how many women get mommy makeovers, boobjobs, get their pussy sewn afterward birth so it's tighter without their consent, etc. I'd think women would think twice before saying pregnant women are disgusting but oh well.

No. 258610

Personally, whenever I read or hear a woman saying pregnancy is disgusting I read it as a woman saying pregnancy is digusting for HER, not by default for other women nor that pregnant women are disgusting. I also think that women stating they think pregnancy is disgusting is them taking back their own body function that society has told them should exclusively be celebrated and desired and that a woman's path in life by default is always assumed to become a mother and saying: No, this is MY body and MY ability to give birth and you don't get to decide how I feel about that. Of course we shouldn't fall into the other extreme where women who do voluntarily and wholeheartedly choose to become pregnant should be shamed and of course we should be careful not to fall into the idea that women shouldn't get pregnant to save their looks (rather than their health or happiness) but I personally don't see that happening right now. Even with some, mostly online, counter voices, pregnancy and motherhood are still generally thought of as something more overbearingly positive than negative.

No. 258617

I wish I could be more positive about pregnancy, but what disgusts me is the reality of it. When it happens, it's usually a consequence of sex (in other words, an accident), because the mother felt pressured to, or the couple decided to have a child when they weren't capable of taking care of all its emotional or physical needs so the child grows up with some form of trauma. At its core pregnancy and motherhood should be a beautiful thing, but it's treated so frivolously and flippantly. Very few people realize the gravity of creating a new life

No. 258631

The first time I consciously thought I never wanted to get pregnant, was when I was 7 and looked in a family health book from the 70's. It had this two-page high quality picture of the baby's head just coming out and some shit peaking from the mother's asshole. It was practically gore tier with the amount of blood, to my child brain. It shattered any delusions I could've possibly had or developed about it being such a beautiful process. Never mind all the horror stories all the women in my family told me, how they went nearly insane or were on deaths doorstep. I actually considered studying to become an obgyn to prevent other women from going through the medical abuse they went through, I followed a summer course in university to prepare for the entrance exams, but I decided that my emotional intelligence isn't up to par and I wouldn't be able to stop myself from assaulting men if they would come in asking for fgm for their baby daughter (they legit prepare you for that situation in the study books) or if they have stupid misogynistic rules. Yet when I talk about being child free or just dare to admit to women outside of my family that I don't want children, it's like they just heard me say something heinous or they think I'm condemning them. It's great if they had a good experience and they're happy, but I don't believe I would be. I would be afraid of going insane or suffering health consequences. I also wouldn't want to adopt, because I like having my freedom. It's not that I hate kids, I would be fine with fostering here and there, I have a lot of empathy for abused and neglected kids, but I don't think I could handle having a permanent one. That would just be too much responsibility for the longterm. Yet when I tell others this, they genuinely look at me like I just told them I enjoy bathing in shit and they try to convince me other wise or say that I'll change my mind eventually. It's difficult, because after a certain age, so many women have gotten shacked up with a man and get pregnant and it just completely takes over their lives. Which I understand, but it ends up dominating every conversation and it doesn't let up even when their kids are old enough to go to university. Which is partially because men don't step up and all the actual child raising falls unto the mother, I'm not blaming women for it, I'm lamenting it. I just can't relate, I will never be able to really relate, I don't have much to add and then the conversation dies. Yet when I complain about this, I must be a pickme. It's like people have forgotten that women actually get judged for not wanting to have children, but they have created this caricature of child free women in their head based on reddit and one anon's unfortunate wording in a post, so now they think any child free woman complaining about this stuff must be a judgy bitch.

No. 258634

>Very few people realize the gravity of creating a new life
I agree. You're bringing a whole new human, a new consciousness into this world. It is a lot of responsibility taking care of a completely innocent person and raise them, and people take it too lightly.

No. 258635

Thank you. I find pregnancy gross and terrifying, basically having to serve as a host for a parasite for 9 months while getting hormonal mood swings, throwing up, becoming a bloated balloon so I can’t do all my normal activities and dealing with a bunch of potential health issues. Then I get to go into labor for hours where I’ll shit myself and possibly get vaginal tears extending to my ass? Or just have my abs pulled apart to take the baby straight out of my womb? Holy shit nope, never happening. Now I know some women love being pregnant and find it a bonding experience with their baby, they enjoy seeing the changes in their body and the process and all that. Truly, that’s great for them and I have nothing against those women. But clearly people can look at the same experiences differently and I want nothing to do with it.

No. 259222

Motherhood is not for her but she's not shitting on others who want it.. like wtf are you upset about?

No. 259225

Look at the thread title.

No. 259229

it's a man

No. 259270

I understand, anon. As long as you're not shaming other women, you can think whichever way you like. The person who responded to you is an incel who's mad he can't find a woman to pass his shit-tier genes. None of you should take the loser seriously.

No. 259621

I’d love kids but lately i feel like there’s been a sharp increase in kids that are non verbal and overall very visibly autistic or mentally disabled. I don’t know how much of it is them being raised by ipads and finger family videos in near isolation, or if it’s something in the water or whatever, but the idea bothers me so much it’s putting me off the idea.
It might even just be confirmation bias and maybe i’m giving myself paranoia and possibly missing out on motherhood because of it, but the idea of having a kid that seems normal at first and then twenty years on ending up with a grown adult who hits me during meltdowns and masturbates in public is too scary

No. 259624

I think its the parenting quality. like too much screens, chaos, and junk food is retarding kids development. screens definitely make kids more ADHD esp the younger they are exposed. babies cannot process tv and its shown to be overwhelming like staring at an acid dream video with crazy lights and sounds. and yet parents let those things "educate" their kids like it's actually beneficial.

No. 259651

I always get such a gut-wrenching sense of repulsion and despair when I see kids using smartphones more efficiently than me when they're not even tweens yet. Utterly indoctrinated into the neurotic capitalist hamster wheel before they can even string full sentences together. No opportunity to learn how to appreciate the peace and calm that comes from riding a bike or just taking a walk around a park. I have some younger relatives that are essentially connected to their phones via invisible drip feed and I feel so sorry for them. I hate adults that choose to have kids and then simply allow big business to raise them and turn them into good little technology addicts. Disgusting.

No. 262126

No. 262312

File: 1651980256111.png (79.26 KB, 845x734, 8095843905743099.png)

This is an absolute horror story
>my vagina ripped up to my clitoris which made me numb to any touch down there.. I can't feel anything when I'm getting into intimate moments
>My husband doesn't care for this children, he won't look after them, he is not a dad for them, he's a stranger.
>I had the second child because our contraceptives failed and abortion is not allowed where we live
Only going to become more common in the U.S. if Roe v Wade gets overturned

No. 262338

what is teddit? is it to avoid giving views to reddit or something?

No. 262340

File: 1651996124177.jpeg (107.27 KB, 640x295, 7D5BF236-F79B-44CB-BFC3-942727…)

If you Hve a severely autistic male child, you might as well just sign over their rights and put them in a home. It doesn’t matter one bit to them who the fuck is raising them and they won’t miss you, because like this poster said, they only care about their own basic needs. They are lower than a fucking animal I swear to god, less empathy and understanding than a dog.

No. 262349

>a web frontend for the discussion site Reddit that does not track users nor display advertisements.

No. 262377

They should re-open institutions. They may have been horrible but at least only one life would be ruined, and most likely a retarded life

No. 262477

wow reading is hard

Please spoiler that shit next time.

No. 263368

Are there any other sites that talk about the real reality of having special needs children? Growing up I knew quite a few people with severely special needs family members and I immediately saw through the silly little ~oh they’re just special~ facade- whole families were ruined due to the disabilities these kids had. Everything from brutal physical assaults, complete destruction of homes, even to things like groping were excused because “they can’t help it.” It fascinates me to hear the real feelings these parents/siblings have because every normie out there will just give you feel-good babble. I know this might sound too eugenics-y for some but it absolutely baffles me the apparent lack of effort being made by the scientific/medical community at large to lessen the strain of these conditions on the population via “finding a cure” or what have you.

No. 263392

Bump, CP don't scroll

No. 263400

BUMP Thanks Nona

No. 263403

There are several posts on reddit talking about realities of special needs children. You should check subreddts like offmychest, etc.

No. 263453

>It absolutely baffles me the apparent lack of effort being made by the scientific/medical community at large to lessen the strain of these conditions on the population via “finding a cure” or what have you.
This is disability politics in a nutshell. If you imply that these children are better off let go, you're suddenly a nazi. Even disabled adults who do want treatment or cures suffer thanks to the louder disabled voices saying that finding cures is eugenics and disabilities should be worn with pride. This 'erasure' debate is common with the deaf community especially. It's, for lack of better word, retarded as hell.

Also to actually answer your question, the interest just isn't there. Rarer disabilities barely get funding or recognition. Drug trials take forever and often fail. Some things are too complicated and even with effort would take decades to figure out. We're still far behind with so much in medicine. And then the anti-cure disability warriors aren't helping neither.
t. disabled

No. 263660

I’m at the vasectomy clinic waiting for my bf to be done. There’s lots of young couples here today. Honestly surprised but not because of U.S. politics.

No. 263712

If there's anything good that comes out of this, I hope it's more men taking responsibility for not knocking women up. I doubt it will be widespread, but nice that at least some are in that mindset.

No. 263958

I don't understand people shitting on men who get vasectomies, and it's not even coming from boomers only, young people do it too.

No. 264467

Where does this happen?

No. 264474

My bf just had his consult, doctor said it’s super easy and only takes 15 mins. I’m so ready to take care of him after the procedure, almost every girl I know has horror stories of birth control so I’ve never wanted the risks.
I see shit about it on places like Reddit where people call it cuck behavior or make fun of people deciding not to have kids like it’s not manly/against nature or something? I don’t get it at all. God forbid a man wants to have sex without the risk of pregnancy or putting the burden on the woman.

No. 264486

I can’t remember all the instances now and Google is somehow no help, but I’ve seen a ton of negative references to vasectomies in TV shows/movies. Most notable one I can remember is the song from Family Guy where they say it “makes you half a man.” Sounds silly but I’m sure those negative associations in pop culture have an effect on how vasectomies are viewed by regular men. It’s somehow seen as less manly.

No. 264488

Sometimes in moments of weakness I think I could have kids. Then I had to watch some kids over the weekend and it reminded me I hate watching kids and love doing what I want with myself too much to sacrifice that shit

No. 264491

>it “makes you half a man.”
This makes me think of men who refuse to neuter their pets because they literally project onto a fucking animal and think getting their balls chopped off is this terrible traumatizing thing over letting it run wild, hump everything in sight, act aggressive, potentially creating more stray animals and generally being a gross nuisance. Scrotes see the act of bringing a new life into the world as nothing more than an ego booster which contributes to their "legacy" while doing little to nothing to actually raise a happy and healthy human. Insanity.

No. 264535

Men who watch family guy are lesser moids to begin with. Tbh I don't care about a man's opinion on vasectomy and men shouldn't be allowed to have one. A man's wife is the only one who should have a day what happens to his fertility.

No. 265564

Same, Nona. But in the past when I was with people who wanted kids, I noticed that any time I was weakened and wanting them, it was just to show my love and commitment to my partner. Not because having kids was the right choice for me. I raised my sister when she was a teenager and dated a guy with a toddler I helped raise while we were together, I have enough child experience to know I don’t want to raise one from start to finish

My current bf doesn’t want kids and is firm that even if he did change his mind, he’d want to adopt a kid. I want to get sterilized, but a vasectomy is more financially realistic. We’ve had the talk and he’s still thinking it all over, I’m trying to not jump the gun and celebrate since he seems to be leaning towards yes. Fingers crossed nonas!! I very seriously think I would kill myself if I became pregnant and was unable to abort it.

No. 271328

>I very seriously think I would kill myself if I became pregnant and was unable to abort it.
Same. I've been reading about cryptic pregnancies where the woman doesn't know she's pregnant then the fucker just pops out and I'm now terrified of that.

I'm super skinny and in tune with my body, but these women remain thin, get their period, have no symptoms, etc until it's too late.

I would legit ask the hospital to take the kid away and sign away all my rights if that happened, then pretend it never did.

No. 271397

Every time I meet an acquantance who has kids, I get sick (because her kids are always sick). I started resenting her for this. This is the 4th time or something. I think I will stop hanging out with her because I just can't deal anymore. She also never has more than 1hr to hang out because her husband is useless and "gets overhwlmed" with kids, so meeting her is always short and fussy. This is more of a rant but, I wish I didn't feel bad for not enjoying hanging out with her. Am I being shallow?

No. 271464

yup my mom works in a nursery and always brings home colds. when I was a shut in I didn't go out at all but still got sick all the time kek

No. 271576

I don't understand the "my husband gets overwhelmed with the kids" I can understand when you are unsure about how to handle your first child, but it is your child god damn. Get used to it you useless idiot, your wife can it.

My sister will soon has children and I just know she will be just give them to my mother to take care of. Like with her, where she promised she will not need help and now my mom took very often care of her.
Peope should really think more about wanting children and taking care of them… not "I need a child" or "It was an accident".
Don't come crying back if you are not prepared for the worst, seriously.

No. 271578

It's not about not being prepared, men just don't give a shit.

No. 271622

IVF regretters scare me the most tbh. Spending thousands on money and going through a gruesome process to have a baby and when the baby comes out they have colic or something and they find out having a baby isn't just cutesy Pinterest photos. I wish we brought those annoying home ec babies back and people were required to have them for several weeks before adopting or getting IVF/ other fertility treatments

No. 271626

So this
One of my male friends won't shut up about having a wife and kids. Says he doesn't care if he hates her as long as he gets a family. Asked if he's prepared to really raise a kid
No more 12 hour video game sessions. Change diapers, bath time, teaching the lil gremlins

Says that's all up to his wife and his life won't change. What kind of mindless breeding dumbass?
Anyone else encounter this type of person? Where it just seems more like an animal instinct need to breed other than deep thoughts on raising a life?

No. 271640

This is really good to hear. I hope it gets more and more popular and eventually fertile men get shamed in the way >>263958 reports.

No. 271642

>Anyone else encounter this type of person? Where it just seems more like an animal instinct need to breed other than deep thoughts on raising a life?

Unfortunately this is like 99% of the men I have met/known. Friends, family, different age groups, doesn't matter. They're also not only irresponsible to their own and spouse's needs but they are perpetual victims to everything and anything that is "hard" for them and, of course, misogynistic. Especially gamers. The number of men I have been friends with who are not like this I could count on 3 fingers. (And I feel like that is a lot, considering how most are.)

If only I could have placed bets on their shit choices when it came to their relationships and marriages, I could have at least benefited from being forced to witness so much of their stupid drama. I've seen it all including ones who share your friend's pov and the fallout from their relationships was insane. I avoid knowing people like that now and it feels so good to finally not have to hear about their dumb shit.

While you could call your friend out for being misogynistic with that opinion, we both know he would throw a tantrum at you. They always do when someone questions or labels them.

No. 271726

I feel like most men don't actually want kids, I've heard so many of them go "I don't really want some but I'll someday have to for my girlfriend/parents/gene spreading", I've even heard women say they don't particularly want to but they'll probably change their mind.

No. 271730

They're just convinced by their wives/parents, or they have them because they don't know how much effort it is (their wife does everything after all).

I find it downright offensive when a moid starts talking to me so casually about having kids. Do you know how many men have told me that they want to be young dads and asked me how many I want? I want to punch them, as if it's so easy to be pregnant for 9 months then burst open and care for a screaming child for the rest of my life. All they have in their head is the idea that they'll lead the EXACT same life, but they'll occasionally play football with their kid when they're not too exhausted from doing absolutely nothing.

No. 271732

The most I've seen men understand is that they'll need to "work more", but that simply means overtime and shit like that, not actually pulling their weight at home. I mean they have social conventions to fall on, as long as they do extra hours at work, they perform the "father" role exceptionally (at least in my fucking eastern european culture), and will leave the mother drowning and dealing with every new challenge. Then they're surprised when the mother divorces them as soon as the kids are somewhat self-reliant.

No. 271735

I guess my mom is quite lucky with my dad (we're also eastern european), while he parrots dumb stereotypes and says shit about women, he pulls his weight around the house, cleans, helped with me, etc. But yeah most men are just pathetic. I'm terrified of having a kid then the guy changing completely, because that can happen too.

>Then they're surprised when the mother divorces them

I love it when men parrot the stat that women initiate most divorces and use it as "proof" that we're awful whores, when the reason for divorce is probably the man being absolutely useless, becoming disgusting (why should we spend thousands on our beauty and he gets to bald, go obese and expect us to still fuck him?), and so on.

There's just so much risk with marriage and kids. It's honestly a scam for women. And I'm happy I realized this before I fell for a retard and had kids.

No. 271754

And when those men do work more they end up spending the extra money on stupid shit like vidya and alcohol, not even actually going towards the kids, wife or worthwhile investments. I always take "I want kids" moids with a grain of salt, they want to prove they can reproduce/just want to "own" a woman and that's it. A lot of them also get off on the idea of "ruining" the woman because no one wants single moms in their mind

No. 271757

I only know one guy (and I'm sure he's a pretty rare type of guy) who does all the childrearing since the mother's very short maternity leave ended. He's was in school at the time and she's the breadwinner so he just took it up on himself to take over child duties entirely.
Unfortunately many ppl (other men) take to insulting his manhood for doing "women's work" and this is probably part of the reason why men in this country don't do shit around the house. Because it's emasculating somehow.

No. 271763

Fertility treatments like IVF are also bad for our health. To get the 'treatment' you need to boost your egg cell production using medication that can give you cancer and induces temporary menopause. There is risk of ovarian overstimulation. Then the egg cells are forcibly removed from your cervix using a long needle that damages your womb. The egg cells are inseminated outside of your body (in vitro: that's why it's called In Vitro Fertilization). Multiple embryos are produced.

Generally at least 2 (or more) embryos are inserted into your womb. To increase the chances of one of them 'making it'. It's already tough being pregnant with just one child at a time. IVF makes you pregnant with twins or triplets. That takes a lot out of a woman's body. Really depletes your nutrients.

There have been women who tried IVF for years and years. It didn't work for them. Their wombs failed to carry a child to term. And then these women died of cancer (caused by the heavy medication they took for the IVF 'treatment').

It's not a healthcare treatment, it's a scam. Damages your body for the sick ridiculous 'child-wish' that is imposed on women from literally childhood. (Why do girls always get baby dolls to play with?? Motherhood training at 5??? How messed up is that?)

So basically IVF was never worth it. If you can't have children naturally, maybe take it as a sign you weren't meant to have kids. There's more to life than being a mom. Women don't have to become moms. Women's value does not depend on our ability to conceive.

No. 271769

Yeah, this too. A lot of discussions around adoption and surrogacy and IVF are centered around the parents and satisfying the parents' desires, and "what about those poor women who can't have kids". It's like barely anyone (in these types of discussion groups) cares about the kids. They don't care if their baby is born prematurely with brain damage, or ripped away from their birth mom (surrogacy), or illegally taken from their family to be adopted, as long as this poor rich woman and her ancient scrote get to have a child.

Having a child is not a human right.
Nobody owes them children.
Just because they want a child, doesn't mean they are entitled to a child.

No. 271773

I think she (or her hubby) are doing something wrong if their kids are always sick. That's not supposed to happen when parents actually make an effort and don't neglect the health of their kids. Maybe the babysitter or daycare their kids stay at is so shitty that all the kids there are sick? Or their family has some issues: maybe the wrong diet, general health problems that run in their family, not enough exercise, lack of warm clothing or bedding or something, poor hygiene, maybe they're all too stressed out and not getting enough sleep?? The kids don't have a proper bed time? The kids aren't fed properly? Malnutrition? Candy for lunch? Could be one of those anti-vaxx families that don't believe in preventing preventable diseases. Or the whole family got Covid and now suffers from long Covid. Then they go around infecting others while claiming "it's just the flu".

But it's really abnormal for kids to be sick that often.

No. 271775

The risks of having a disabled child are increased when/if:

- the biological parents drink a lot of alcohol… so if the dad is an alcoholic, that increases the risk of having a disabled child. (the child might still be fine, but risk is higher).
- the bio parents do drugs (this includes weed and other soft drugs that are legal in places).
- the bio parents are biologically related (incestuous couples, or unknowingly married someone from a very similar gene pool)
- the birth mother has a very small limited diet, not enough nutrients for the baby
- the baby is born prematurely due to complications during pregnancy. complications can be caused by too much stress, unhealthy lifestyles, poverty = lack of access to healthcare, not discovering an ectopic pregnancy in time… among other things.
- other high risk pregnancies, such as surrogate mothers. the surrogate mom's body might reject the fetus (because her body does not recognize the baby as her own), which leads to premature birth… all surrogate pregnancies are high risk pregnancies.

No. 271780

I'm willing to bet their son actually has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and the 'autism' is a misdiagnosis. So many different things are shelved under 'autism' these days.

It used to be: 'can only focus on one thing at a time, has a very narrow range of hobbies (which makes it difficult for them to do smalltalk because they only know a lot about one or two subjects)'. (Most actually autistic people I met in real life were very polite quiet people, a little nerdy, but friendly once you get them started on the stuff they like to talk about.)

Now 'autism' can mean everything and anything. Quite common for people online who claim they have autism (some of them self-diagnosed) to actually behave like textbook Narcissists. One guy I met online told me he had autism. Then later he tried to get me to help him cheat on his fiancee. When I told him to fuck off, and blocked his ass, he started a public smear campaign against me. (He accused me of being shitty after I turned down his request for sex.) That's textbook Narc behavior. Has nothing to do with autism.

I'm beginning to think Narcissists co-opted Autism because it sounds better than NPD. People have pity for Autists. Narcissists use that to their advantage by hiding in sheep's clothing, looking for their next victim. Especially online. So I no longer believe it when people online claim they have autism. Very often it's just the mask Narcissists wear online. Because that's more socially palatable.

No. 271782

>reddit spacing
You can reply to several posts at a time, no need to write walls of text upon walls of text.

No. 271804

Sure, it's easier to call the child probllematic and send them away, than to actually set firm boundaries and parent the child. That's just bad parenting. All young kids scream and cry a lot. That's natural small child behavior. It's not pathology and not abnormal for a child to behave like a child. Part of parenting is teaching kids how to behave, to be quiet, to control their natural urge to talk loud. Just because a 5 year old screams a lot (when their parents don't parent them, don't set any boundaries), doesn't mean that child will grow up to be a rapist. Wtf.

I don't know about that. No, from my experience at least, the opposite was true. (All women I know who had kids young are more mature than others of their age group). However still sad they missed out on a lot due to having a kid real early.

Would things be different in a relationship with a woman? Two women raising a child together. (if they're both bi or lesbian)

No. 271852

I will never ever support retards who go above and beyond for IVF. Draining their savings, going into insane debt, even starting a gofundme all for the means of having a biological child… Just why? And how much you wanna bet most of these people will just forget about it and beg for more money to have even more kids when they get bored of their new toy? Has anyone ever met IVF parents that are half decent? I sure as fuck haven't

No. 271876

Nonnie you don't understand, they want children, but it has to be from THEM, doesn't matter when they use a surogate mother, which is unatural or IVF and go into dept.
They can't adopt, they have to show that it is from them!!111 There is NO ohter way!

No. 271878

Most of them just have a breeding fetish. You can't convince me octomom getting IVF to have 8 kids after having 6 and begging for people support wasn't some weird fetish

No. 271880

Yeah, even moreso than the body horror, trauma, permanent disabilities (incontinence etc), the reason I don't want kids is because not only would I have to endure pregnancy and birth, but do almost 100% of the shitty jobs to raise it, while the moid just plays video games and acts dim-witted. Men think it's like, cute that they're fucking useless. They could watch a youtube video and learn how to cook an egg, but instead they'll be like, "you know i'm useless in the kitchen haha" so they can sit on their ass while the woman prepares their meals for them like a slave. just thinking about it makes me angry. it used to be that men work and women raise kids, and like, okay, that makes sense. now women still have to raise the kids and do all the housework, but also study their ass off and work a fulltime job. are you kidding me? So I'm just not doing that shit. If the human species goes extinct then oh fucking well. Maybe men shouldn't be lazy stupid useless slobs.
The video games kill me. Why are moids ALWAYS on the fucking video games?

No. 271881

Other men. Men decided that being vidya and porn addicts was cool, quirky and funny so now men don't care and think it's cool to be braindead addicts. Take note about how back in the day it was only losers who played video games so most men simply didn't play or were very hush if they did. Also if you're a woman and have an issue with your man falling into video game or porn addiction you're simply just depicted as an annoying gf screaming for attention for not wanting him to scream at the screen for hours every night until he goes to sleep. God forbid women want healthy men

No. 272571

File: 1656516108514.jpg (31.68 KB, 800x600, female-sterilization-tubal-lig…)

Posted this in the wrong thread like a doofus. Bumped it for visibility and everything, ugh

I scheduled a consultation with an OB for tubal ligation next Wednesday. I am SO NERVOUS that she will deny my request. Such bullshit.
This is a doctor I've not seen before so I don't really know what her attitude will be like. She looks like she is under 40, so that's good, right? I want this so bad. Here are my reasons:
>I'm almost 32, never ever wanted kids to the point where it's kind of a running joke in my family that I "hate" children (I don't lol but I really don't want any)
>Pregnancy is literal body horror to me and I would kms if I had to endure a distended belly and birth
>I have tried 5+ methods of birth control that all had negative effects from hormonal instability to an IUD flipping upside down inside of me somehow
>I had to terminate a pregnancy in October and I never ever want to do that again as it was traumatizing (I had an at-home abortion in my shower and there was a lot more tissue/matter coming out than I anticipated and I had to get a second procedure, a vacuum [?] abortion at the office because all of the tissue was not expelled)
>Ever since the abortion I have been kind of scared of my bf's penis getting anywhere near my vagina without a condom on and it detracts from my pleasure and connection with him
>My bf and I have been together for over 10 years (this is not a flex at my age, but it is relevant) and both agree on a childfree lifestyle.
>I've seen my friends and siblings have children and no "switch" was flipped for me and I still don't ever want to have babies or raise children.
>My sex drive has been NIL for the past 9-ish years because of depression, anxiety, trauma, meds, and birth control, and I am FINALLY getting it back and I am SO EXCITED. I never ever want to lose my sex drive again, and fear of pregnancy (that I will never want) is inhibiting me.
>I would love to be able to have pregnancy and condom-free sex with my bf while we are still young.
Anything else I should include? Has anyone gone through this? I saw on the childfree subreddit that it's helpful to mention how fear of pregnancy negatively affects your sex life because one of the main objectives of an OB/GYN is to facilitate a happy and healthy sex life for their patients. I want this so bad. If she refuses, I will go to another doctor. Please send vibes nonnies!! I'll update next week if anyone is interested.

No. 272573

Bump, it won't let me delete + repost unsaged. Sorry for retardation all around

No. 272579

Does your boyfriend plan on getting a vasectomy as well? I think it's a bit unfair that you have to shoulder all the responsibility on birth control.

No. 272581

He's too hesitant and I can get it done for free. He's also okay with condoms and I'd really rather not kek
But yeah men will never understand.

No. 272582

Absolutely insane that he wants you to get your tubes tied but refuses a vasectomy himself. Vasectomies are way easier and less surgically invasive.

No. 272583

No, get him to get a vasectomy. It has no side effects, way less invasive, way quicker. Typical moid shit "hesitant".

No. 272585

Actually idk how he feels about the fact that I decided to do this. Months ago we discussed a vasectomy and we agreed to wait til the end of the year to revisit the idea. I don't want to wait.
I guess I could have discussed it with him before I booked the appointment but I felt inspired by recent societal events. I also feel uncomfortable pressuring him to have a medical procedure. I really just want it done at this point. Maybe I'm just over excited about having sex again and rushing this.

No. 272586

Yeah a vasectomy is so much simpler it’s a bit sad he’d rather have you in a more invasive surgery than go in for 10-15 mins while awake and then leave with instructions to just chill for a few days. It’s free with some insurances too.

No. 272599

withold sex because you're the one at risk of pregnancy and he will no longer feel """""hesitant"""". It's time for men to take their reaponsibility, it's been on women for their convenience far too long.

No. 272773

I posted yesterday about tubal ligation. I spoke to my bf about having the vasectomy performed soon. He said he doesn't want to do it now because he might regret not having kids when he gets old. So… obviously this is retarded, I guess "things change," so this is all on me now. I don't even know anymore nonnas… He literally wants to hold on to it in case I die? In case we break up?
On one hand I think it's valid not to want to give this up but on the other hand I am the one at risk and I had to have a terrible abortion. Ultimately it is his body and his choice, but this seems fucked up. Idk what to do and I don't have any women irl to talk to. This sucks. I hate men.

No. 272774

Uhhh yeah.. time to break up. He obviously isn't sure if he wants kids or not, probably will eventually and then you can't have any and he will leave you. Why wait for that?

No. 272775

I know breaking up sounds extreme to you, but it really isn't worth it being with a guy who isn't sure of you. That just sounds awful to me, especially since you've had an abortion already. He sounds uncommitted.

No. 272779

I have no advice for you but I'm wondering one thing: what does he expect to do if he decides he does wants kids after all? Break up with you despite having been together for over a decade? Kinda fucked up to just throw that out there after 10 years of a relationship that he's actually on the fence.

No. 272781

god this just shows what women go through just so men can have sex, putting in zero effort themselves

>girl clearly doesn't want kids ever

>has traumatic abortion
>birth control obliterated sex drive
>choice between incredibly invasive surgery and simple vasectomy
>"uumm I'm not sure, I may want kids one day"

I fucking hate men. This dude will definitely leave you at one point after you've made yourself infertile for him.

No. 272782

Thanks for the replies nonnas.

This is wtf I'm wondering too. I guess my pregnancy made him realize he might want a kid. We're going to talk about it more today and I don't know what to say. I'm so mad that he didn't bring this up on his own. It makes me feel like fucking trash that I had to have an abortion, took one for the team, and he won't do the same for me. His body his choice amirite? Fuck

No. 272794

He does know vasectomies are reversible, right? Not 100% reliably but for the most part. I personally know a guy who got one, reversed it, then knocked up a woman two more times just fine. Regardless screw your boyfriend for the time being, I totally recommend getting a ligation since you sound certain you don't want kids for your own peace of mind. I got one and it's one of the best things I ever did. Not having to worry about pregnancy or shitty hormonal birth control is a godsend. My doctor (a man) approved it with absolutely no pushback. Wishing the same for you.

No. 272827

anon, he sounds like a piece of shit. you shouldn't even be with him. he's garbage for putting you through that and refusing to just have a simple vasectomy.

No. 272842

I really hate that moids have such an easy option with a vasectomy but in 9/10 cases they make the woman get an invasive bisalp etc. same for birth control, it's so easy for the guy to use a condom or pull out, but the woman is expected to fuck her body up with iud's or pills. also i agree with the other posters, your bf is a jackass who isn't serious.
like, you've been together 10 years but he hasn't married you. i would reconsider why you are staying with a guy clearly unwilling to commit.

No. 272867

>you've been together 10 years but he hasn't married you.
Have you considered that anon might not even want to marry?

Some of you all make assumptions and then offer fairly extreme advice based on assumptions and like 3 posts detailing just one small part of their relationship, idk how I feel about that.

No. 272870

Are there any side effects to a tubal? I've heard you need replacement hormones, or that your periods stop (which would be welcome tbh kek but that can't simple happen with no side effects)

No. 272883

Thanks for the support nonnie. I honestly forgot that vasectomies are reversible, I did a quick google search and it's not always successful but it's better than 0%. Did you experience any side effects from your tubal? How's the scarring?

>extreme advice
Kek yeah I knew what I was getting myself into when I posted originally. Love u ladies

No. 272956

I like to sometimes look at places like r/regretfulparents, and I wonder if more people would be up to kids if there just wasn't as much "child worship" in the West. There are cultures where the kids just are there, they get taken care of and get their education, but no one plays full time tutor and clown for them so that they're not bored or unstimulated for even one second. While in the West, any middle class woman gets bombarded how she needs to basically have her toddler be preparing for medical entrance exam at 4 and any moment not spent developing or entertaining the kid is shit parenting. Of course fathers are rarely ever the part of this conversation at all.

No. 272959

I'm in the West and I've never heard of that.

No. 272962

> While in the West, any middle class woman gets bombarded how she needs to basically have her toddler be preparing for medical entrance exam at 4 and any moment not spent developing or entertaining the kid is shit parenting.
I think you’re confusing the West with East Asia.

No. 272964

What? If anything I've observed the opposite

No. 272997

Neither of those are side effects of a tubal, tubal ligation is where they block the fallopian tubes by cutting, tying, or cauterizing them, so there aren't hormonal or period changes. (The first few periods after the procedure can be painful, but they go back to normal.) Hysterectomies do require supplemental hormones and stop periods, but that's very different from a tubal.

No. 272998

in in my experience in korea i always felt like parents don't parent at all. Starting in elementary school kid goes to school during day, and after school funish/studying classes in evening. Then starting in middle school kid goes into serious studying mode and literally has no childhood. Just school and studying from 9am to 10 pm…. so parents barely raise their kid aside from yelling at it. A common complaint you'll hear from expats is that toddlers aren't disciplined and are "let loose", so running around restaurants/screaming/etc, because the idea here is that "his/her life will suck in a few years, so let them enjoy their freedom" ideology.
but life is hell in korea and many millennials feel like they got robbed and don't want the same pressure on their kid, plus raising a kid is so expensive, basically a luxury. So birthrate is like .7 lol

No. 274281

All day every day I have to listen to my parents scream at each other, then tell me how useless I am (just bought own home, have a business, I'm healthy, definitely not useless). Then they wonder why I don't want a husband and kids. See I have two options - one, I get to live alone happily in my brand new apartment doing whatever I like, traveling whenever, etc etc FOREVER. And in the second option, I get to be a moid's maid and get repeatedly knocked up just for him to scream at me about how useless females are. Hmm, I wonder why I'm going with no kids.

No. 274339

>I get to live alone happily in my brand new apartment doing whatever I like, traveling whenever, etc etc FOREVER.
This is what I told my mom that convinced her me being childfree is good. Told her I get to do what I want, forever. If I fuck up in any way, I can start all over and just move on. No kids, no baggage. If a moid fucks me over, I can just pack my shit and leave immediately. It's a life where you don't owe anyone anything. It left her speechless for a minute before she started going on about how great that sounds. She started suggesting places I could go, and things she's always dreamed of doing herself.

No. 274451

What are your plans for old age? As someone who generally has the childfree mindset this is one of the sticking issues for me.

When my grandparents started loosing their ability to live independently my families ability and desire to help them allowed them to live much better and more independent lives for longer and prolonged the amount of time until they had to live in a nursing home. Once they were in the nursing home having capable on the outside who could advocate for them also led to them getting better treatment; especially when their minds began to go. The opposite of this is a scenario thats very concerning to me.

No. 274457

Assisted suicide kek. If I need help I don't want to live.

No. 274460

90% of kids in first world countries aren't waiting hand and foot on their parents anyways.

No. 274462

I sometimes say that in joking way but it feels like the only easy answer.

Its not so much waiting hand on foot just providing that greater level of support and advocacy which even if its nowhere on the level that our grandparents would be expected to provide for their parents still makes a big difference.

No. 274464

>Its not so much waiting hand on foot just providing that greater level of support and advocacy which even if its nowhere on the level that our grandparents would be expected to provide for their parents still makes a big difference
i don't think you realize how many kids are straight up not there for their parents at all and are often just waiting or even hastening the deaths of their parents either because they no longer want to be saddled with responsibility, or want cash.

No. 274468

I do get that and I know that there is never any guarantee that were I to have a family it would be as close or supportive as the one Ive known. I also know that its not a guarantee either that they wouldn't be supportive - thats why I find it so confusing and would like to hear some of the solutions for self support that other nonnas have come up with.

No. 274471

Off myself as soon as my body starts to fall apart, if not earlier as I often have suicide ideations.

No. 274477

Stay healthy and fit so I hopefully can remain living alone, sell the land I'll inherit if I need money to go to a carehome.

Some old man who lived in my beighbourheis never married and he had always lived with his brother who also hadn't married but had passed away. He had a young woman with whom I went to primary school who was a nurse and her boyfriend take care of him at his home for a couple of years because he had no kids or otherwise family left to take care of him and in return they could buy his property (a nice little farmhouse with some land) at a big discount once he died. This girl was like the stereotypical christian girl finish nursing school before 20 marry first bf of 5-6 years in early 20's and have kids-type of girl. So she was like 22 when the old guy died and she and her bf got the property. It was an extremely good deal for them though especially in light of the housing crisis. Quite the alternative solution but it worked for both parties. Sometimes you need to think in solutions instead of problems.

No. 274478

neighbourhood* damn it I can't type coherent sentences today.

No. 274502

Ditto, even if I had kids. Life’s not worth living even when my body is functioning fine, I can’t see myself ever wanting to keep going once I get to the age that I can’t do basic tasks myself. Ideally the laws will acknowledge that by then but I still know how to pull it off smoothly even if they don’t.

No. 274593

if you're worried about old age, the best things you can do is invest in health and make financial plans/investments. Obviously eating well and working out, etc. For a kid to take care of you in old age isn't a guarantee, a lot has to go right within 40 years. My retired lawyer aunt had no kids, health obsessed, saved everything, and now just travels/vacations with no issues despite age. Or can just retire at one of those fancy retirement villages in florida where everyone drives golf carts.

No. 274734

I think I would like to have a kid one day but the entire process of pregnancy and birth is too disgusting and degrading to me. Even reading anything pregnancy or feeding the baby related on lolcow is like reading a horror story. It's lovecraftian in nature. Also when I think how shitty and hard is our birth process in comparison to how it looks for other mammals, our evolution feels like a failure. There are also other terrible things, like how the pregnancy destroys the grey matter in your brain and basically makes you dumber so you can bond with the baby, how the pregnancy causes your cells to age faster and raises your risk of getting osteoporosis later in life, how the male fetus leaves its DNA in your body forever, it all looks like a fucking parasitic invasion on your body. I've never seen pregnancy as something normal or natural, not even as a small girl, I didn't even want to play with dolls when adults were trying to force that stuff on me. My health is pretty poor anyway, can't imagine surviving something like pregnancy, nor mentally nor physically. Maybe I will adopt one day, I wouldn't have a problem with bonding with a stranger's baby as long as it would be small enough to not remember their parents, but such young kids are adopted fast and it's hard to adopt one, besides scrotes are usually fixated on passing on their DNA and only raising babies with their DNA so I'm afraid that even if my partner was at first ok with never having kids of his own, sooner or later he would start pushing for it. I've seen men suddenly changing their minds and dumping their childless partners. I'm not that afraid of never having a kid, I don't care about passing on my DNA, I'm more afraid of the social consequences of not having one. Harder to keep a partner because statistically most people want kids at some point in their lives, also older people with kids always get more help than those without kids. Even at hospitals, even if your life is in danger, they will always care for those who have children more than those without children (unless you're a very young woman, because that means you can theoretically have lots of babies). In this world childless people are worthless because they don't provide new generation of slaves for the system

No. 274776

I am with you on this.

I don't know how many of you nonnies had to take care of a person, but for me it showed that, even if I wasn't childfree I would never want my children to have this burden.
It can drain you mentally and physically.
So yeah as soon as I am not able to take care if me anymore or there are symptoms of alzheimer I will go from this place.
Also having that as an answer for the old people screeching "The person who will take care of you will be someones child." at you is amazing. The look on their faces is priceless.

No. 274786

Yeah same. I go between wanting a kid and not wanting one, but I will absolutely never go through pregnancy and birth. It's too horrific, I don't understand how people do it. It's a fucking horror movie and here you have women crying and killing themselves over not being able to have bio kids.

If some day (maybe in my 30s) I want a child, I'll adopt. I'll probably also adopt a toddler because I cannot deal with the baby stage. Just make sure you adopt from another country so the parents can't just take their kid back if they change their mind one day.

No. 274831

>Well aware of the pain and suffering behind most pregnancies
>Wants another woman to go through this only for you to take her child away, total disrespect for her connection to her child and wants to make it impossible for her to see it
Please be a troll.

No. 274832

>take her child away
nta but you know she didn't mean it like that, children that are up for adoption have already been abandoned by their parents

No. 274833

understandable if I said surrogacy, but in adoption kids are abandoned by their parents lol. I'm not gonna adopt a kid, raise it, love it and spend all this time and money just for mommy to come back like "whoops! I decided I want it!"

No. 274836

are you a troll? adopting helps everyone involved. the child, the mother and the person adopting.

No. 274993

probably referring to the youtuber Myka Stauffer who adopted a baby from china, his autism was too much for her to handle, so she gave him away. She's disappeared since then

No. 274994

**"re-homed" him as she said

No. 274995

I mean why did she adopt an autist kid.

I think the benefit of adoption too is you can adopt a kid that's perfectly healthy - one of my biggest fears of having bio kids is it popping out disabled.

No. 274996

Probably only a carreer move, she was in the blogosphere and probably thought family vlogging with a "cute autistic minority" kid would let her milk an insane niche, and didn't think about all the work involved in raising a special needs kid or how he would not be cooperative.

No. 275015

>Just make sure you adopt from another country so the parents can't just take their kid back if they change their mind one day.
You must live in a really shitty country if you don't have laws protecting adoptive parents from that.

If anything international adoptions are notoriously shady and have a lot of corruption behind them. With those it's not safe to assume the child was given up for adoption by free will of the mother at all (and depending on where you live, neither is it safe to assume with adoptions from your own country)

Then why did she say it has to be a kid from abroad

No. 275083

I just discovered that when I was in between jobs my in law was pushing husband to convince me to have a kid. She’s okay by in law standards but why are boy moms like that. It’s my life and I don’t want a kid. Also it’s none of her business. Not even a little bit. I’m kind of mad that she had this talk with him. Didn’t even bother to talk to me which tells a lot.

No. 275093

They feel entitled to grandkids.

No. 275111

The last time I told my mom that I didn't want kids (I was still a teenager), she looked like she had a heart attack. Just dead stare and disbelief.
I know I don't really want kids. The picture-perfect photos and what they show in movies is cute and all, but realistically, pregnancy scares me and I do not want to dedicate my life to a child/teen/young adult that will just bring me stress. And when I am around other babies, I get nervous. I'm not going to tell my mother that again though. I'm just going to limit contact and when the question arises, ignore it.

No. 275124

just get friends with kids, you'll see firsthand how miserable everyone involved is, especially the women, and how often they're berated by the men for "doing nothing" and how the men "don't need" them.

No. 275137

Peak westerner mindset where you think it's ok to steal a baby from a family and try your best so the baby won't be taken back. Don't even adopt tbh, no child would feel anything towards a monster like you.

No. 275139

What the fuck did I just read? Did you reply to the right anon? Nothing they said was indicative that they're a monster, they just want to be able to have a kid that parents aren't using as a daycare service essentially. If that's what you think is a monster then you should hear about what adoptees parents do to their kids

No. 275140

She said she specifically wanted to adopt from abroad so the parents wouldn't ever be able to get the child back. A lot of shitty countries have bad systems and the mother probably isn't willingly giving away the child. You're a monster if you willingly support such industry just so you can have a baby without suffering through pregnancy, also raising a child is much harder than pregnancy so she'd be a failure anyways.

No. 275193

Exactly. It’s like her feelings matter more than any health complications I might have due to childbirth and pregnancy. She had tried to convince me in the past but I just stone walled her because it’s not her business. She also intervenes way too much with our personal life and wants to be informed about every single detail. I stopped talking altogether, but husband is a mommy’s boy duh… you never know until you’re trapped.

No. 275194

Well the men in her generation looked at playboy magazine and maybe visited strippers, then didn’t have the angry men who fap to violent rape porn while their wives are recovering from child birth. Always remember that you will be the one who is stuck with a scrote who doesn’t want to deal with your health problems, doesn’t want to take part in childcare and will probably cheat on you if he can. In laws are the worst, they don’t give a shit about what you go through and they think their precious son is too good to do any of these horrible things. They just want an heir.

No. 275196

I believe this is why the older generations don't emphasize with younger women dealing with their man's porn addiction. Pre-1980s porn was realistic outside of a few exceptions, there was no rape porn, extreme fetishism, fixations on threesomes, etc and situations of men avoiding sex and love to their own wives just to look at playboy was actually very rare. No needing to almost kill the woman to get off. No painfully rubbing dry cooch asking where the buckets of squirt is. No extreme body type preferences such as anorexic or fat with retarded proportions. No thinking that openly lusting after other girls except the one you're trying to bang is foreplay.

Not praising moids from older generations but at the very least they didn't let porn rot their brain to the extent that millennials and gen z did

No. 275312

99% of old people get shoved in a home or left alone to bleed out on the floor. The idea that a child is nothing but an indentured servant who will wipe your ass when you're 90 is delusional, selfish, entitled, and repugnant. Anyone who says things like that is going to end up in a shitty oldfuck home because children aren't stupid, they pick up on things. They'll know the parent only had them to create a slave.

And old age is retarded. You work and stow money away your entire life to pay medical bills when you're 80 and in daily pain, getting senile, and can't even go out and do anything because everything hurts. When I'm 70 I'll tie a bag of rocks around myself and leap into the Mediterranean.
Also this. I don't like that hormones will generate to forcibly bond me with the baby or make me enjoy it. That's like giving up my agency to a mind controlling parasite. But the thing I most can't stand is that it's so uneven. The woman goes through all that, is still expected to have a career, still expected to do the majority of the housework because moids play the weaponized incompetence game, and the woman also does 95% of the childcare. Even if the moid wanted to breastfeed it's not like he could, and men are so fucking stupid and worthless you can't trust them to keep a baby alive anyway. They'd probably be on video games or wanking to porn while the kid chokes to death. Why should I sacrifice so much so a moid can have a fuck trophy? It's all take no give. The only way men could ever get women to have kids was by taking away our human rights. As soon as women won legal equality the birth rate plummeted. It's simply a shitty deal. and instead of moids acknowledging that and doing something to solve it, their solution is to ban abortion and poke holes in condoms or swap our bc pills out with sugar pills or other sneaky, evil, controlling ways to trick us and coerce us into carrying their digstusting spawn. What is in it for me to destroy my health body and life to have a kid? So some creature can come up and slobber on my leg whenever it wants to butter me up to ask for me to buy it something?

Idiot scrotes keep taunting us that they'll "replace women" with artificial wombs. Well where are they? As if men would ever raise a baby. As soon as they find out a baby needs to be fed every 2 hours, even at night, not one single moid would go through with having one. Theyre an irresponsible lazy incompetent retarded selfish gender. Even the moid alone barely earns his keep without kids factored in. Have you ever seen a moid without a woman around? They can't even cook food for themselves or keep their own house clean. They force women to do everything, and now we also have to have a career as well. What do moids do? Snore? Fart? They contribute absolutely nothing because they're so worthless lazy and stupid.

No. 275326

So what’s the verdict on dating people that have kids from a previous relationship?

No. 275330

>A thread for anons who do not want kids in any context, whether biological, adopted, or step
Pretty much says it all. If you don't want kids why date someone with kids? You're going to have to end up taking care of them if it ever gets serious. Waste of time and energy.

No. 275373

stupid. very stupid because there's only three possible scenarios:
>a: The dude you're dating is a good father so a whole chunck of his time, energy, money and attention goes to his kids with his ex-wife.
If you're 100% honest with yourself, you want him to be focused on you and not divided between you and, respectfully, the leftovers of his previous relationship. Also >>275328 this, if you're not careful you start investing your own resources into the leftovers of his previous relationship.
>b: scneario A isn't the case so he doesn't take responsibility for his kids from his ex-relationship.
Which means he's a shit human being you shouldn't want to be in a relationship with to begin with
>c: The mother purposefully keeps him out of his kids' lives
Same af before, he's most likely a shit human being.

Single men with kids' from a previous relationship are shit out of luck no matter what and as a woman without kids (whether you eventually want kids or not) you should never ever date one. They're essentially bottom of the barrel pieces of worthless shit with negative dating value.

This is my perspective as a straight woman btw that's why I write about dating a straight man with kids'.

No. 275379

File: 1657889191816.png (265.97 KB, 550x516, 1646935128594.png)

Anyone else actually likes kids and think they are cute? I definitely feel my biological clock rattling it's cage, seeing small kids and babies makes me almost cry. I just think it would be incredibly selfish to bring a child into this doomed world, and I have diagnosed BPD and family history of MS disease that makes things even worse. I would be an awful mother, that's the truth. It hurts a bit sometimes though.

No. 275386

Nope. Seeing kids and babies moves absolutely nothing in me, never has.

No. 275390

Yeah 100%. I love kids- I have a blast babysitting/tutoring and hanging out with little cousins etc. I do want kids but I’ve made the decision not to have them bc the world is fucked

No. 275397

no, and the "biological clock ticking" for women is not real. that's just baby fever/wanting a baby

No. 275398

I think they're cute, but I don't actually want them or to take care of them. At least you're doing the responsible thing though, there's no point in having a child if there's a high chance of it suffering throughout its entire life. There are things we should take risks on, but this is not it.

No. 275404

I never liked kids. For me they are just ugly, stupid, loud, dirty, time consuming, egoistic and annoying.
The worst part is, I know that, it isn't their fault, it is just how babys and kids are.

No. 275406

If everyone thought like that humanity would have died out by now. Look at the past and tell me when there was ever a good time to have kids, please. People have had kids during wars and during the plague.

No. 275422

I'm in the same boat, nonnie. I'm in my early 30's and feel like I really want to settle down and have kids, but I'm so scared of actual pregnancy and feel like it's selfish to bring kids into this world the way it is, especially if it's a girl. I had such a hard life growing up and still do and I wouldn't want my kids to possibly go through even half of what I went through. I am considering adoption but I doubt I qualify.

No. 275434

Not really, the older I get the less I can stand them, especially toddlers, I pass a kindergarten everyday day to go to work and parenting them at this age must be incredibly stressful, they pay 0 attention to their surroundings and they don't listen. I'm fine with babies as long as they sleep but the bodily fluids disgust me, according to my mother I almost had panic attacks when my brother was retching after breastfeeding when I was 3 lol. I don't hate them but I'm not fond of them either.

No. 275444

nta but arguably that's caused a lot of suffering

No. 275451

No? I've never looked into it, I just assumed all animals would have something like that, a desire to breed (male or female). Maybe baby fever is a better word then, or maybe a mental biological clock?

No. 275452

Point is that there has never been a "good time" to have kids in all of human history.

No. 275524

I love kids, and I think I’d be a great mom. I just can’t trust any man and I only want daughhters.. I wish I was confident enough to trust myself to raise daughters on my own, I’d gently guide them to be strong and intelligent women.

No. 276527

I am terrified of having a cryptic pregnancy (don’t know you’re pregnant and have no symptoms until it’s too late). My life will end if I have a child. I’m super thin, healthy and my periods are regular (most of these stories seem to be from overweight women so the bump is hidden). But I’m still terrified because there have been some stick thin women who have no symptoms and the bump doesn’t show until the very late months and I can’t abort it then.

I’ll take a pregnancy test every month if I have to but sometimes even those come back negative. Basically HOW can I be certain that I’m not pregnant? What can I do at minimum monthly to check?

No. 276542

Unless this is an anxiety/OCD issue as well. Then you'll be able to convince yourself you could get pregnant from toilet backsplash (I've been at that level, so understandable).

No. 276556

Well obviously, but I’m not gonna be abstinent my entire life. I don’t think I’ll ever get to an OCD level. I suppose I’ll keep taking monthly pregnancy tests, and blood tests which I do anyway to make sure I’m healthy.

No. 276560

Nonnie, cryptic pregnancies are extremely rare. and even if it did happen to you, you would just give birth and then give the child away, then go on with your life. It’s not some life sentence.

No. 276566

aside from the horror that is birth, even if I don’t want kids I’d still love and become attached to my own child. I wouldn’t be able to give it away, but I’d hate my life and loss of freedom, so I’d just feel guilty and shit for the rest of my life.

No. 276590

Given how many body modifications pregnancy brings and how debilitating some of them can be I definitely consider it a life sentence.

No. 276592

I’m 26 and my parents are cool with me being childfree but every so often my Mum will say something like “aww, you should foster or adopt a kid” and when I ask why she’s like “wouldn’t it be nice? I think you get paid to be a foster parent” and like.. okay then why don’t you do it then? kek

No. 276619

sounds like she enjoys the idea of occasionally spending time with/babysitting grandkids lol

No. 285552

I'm 25 in a week and tiktok has ramped up the baby videos it's showing to me. I mean, it's like 1 in 4 videos is of babies and I've never liked a baby video, searched for one or indicated I want kids. I keep tapping not interested but it only gets worse lol.

Just now I got shown a video about how peak fertility is 24 and apparently your chances of getting pregnant within 3 months at 25 are 20%, so I "better get on it".

I both hate it and find it hilarious that an app thinks it can influence me to have kids by pushing breeder content on me.

No. 285562

I think it was the signal to uninstall TikTok kek. But seriously, I knew Facebook was prone to shit like that but I thought TikTok was entirely algorithm based and you only got content based on your likes. Also
>I got shown a video about how peak fertility is 24
Is this some kind of psyop to convince zoomers to have children as soon as they can?

No. 285565

>Is this some kind of psyop to convince zoomers to have children as soon as they can?
Tinfoil territory but I absolutely think it is. Internet trolls used for government propoganda and shit are rampant and proven, I'd be shocked if they DIDN'T try to use tiktok and shit to influence women to have kids again considering the dropping birth rate.

No. 285581

I actually like tiktok, it has some cool content and it makes me feel less alone kek, so I hate how my usually normal feed has turned into a "HAVE KIDS HAVE KIDS HAVE KIDS" soundboard. The not interested button doesn't work so sometimes I want to comment STOP SHOWING ME DISGUSTING BABIES but that'll probably bring more to my feed kek

I tried making another account but the algorithm couldn't adjust to my likes which was strange. It just kept showing shit.

>Is this some kind of psyop to convince zoomers to have children as soon as they can?

Apparently 18-24 is the period you're most likely get pregnant, but this highly fertile period lasts until early 30s. It isn't some cliff dive where you can fall pregnant on the first try at 24, then at 25 you're a barren grandma that needs IVF.

The video was full of comments like "I got pregnant immediately at 21, but it took me a whole year at 25" as if that's scientific proof. Everyone is different, and lots of factors affect how quickly you get knocked up.

I'd still rather never have kids than get pregnant under 24 jesus fucking christ.

No. 288540

It is nice when your family supports your decision.
My mother does not care if i have children or not, but my father can't handle the thought of me behing happy wihtout husband and kids. Even thou he told me years ago, in a fight we had that he does not care if he is a good dad or not.

No. 288542

My mother says she doesn't care either but she is super judgemental of spinsters, I know what she truly thinks. She thankfully never put pressure on me or anything, probably because my sister wants children but I'm fully prepared to get some snippy comments as I get older (I'm turning 30 in a few months), my mom always had some obnoxious complex with age.

No. 288565

>>28 for women
That will tilt them though because it completely kills the wall especially when mens is 18-24 kek

No. 289460

File: 1663821911053.jpg (22.66 KB, 500x333, 1648254948353.jpg)

Do not know if I should post this in the vent threat or here…

I just found out that a federal agent got filmed by a nanny cam as he got though the clothes of 3 years old and sniffed her panties.
He also threw aways his computer bevor the trial.
He does goes free without any punishment.

I know of course that pedos exist everywhere and that there is probably a huge underground network of them.
But it always infuriates me so much. I can not gasp the though of someone wanting to bring a child in this world.
Some of my friend got molested by one of their relatives or friends.
I just hate this world.

No. 289461

God I hate men so much it’s unreal

No. 289465

About to yeet these tubes! Can't wait

No. 289472

godspeed nonna

No. 292191

my nigel has told me like 10 times how much he hates kids and doesn't want any but i'm still scared he's going to change his mind in the future and demand a kid or 2
1 beds are affordable here. 2 beds are…not. I don't actually understand how people afford kids without going into stupid levels of debt or being a $200k software eng.

No. 293980

I feel uncomfortable with the fact that I have a uterus and could get pregnant if anything would happen. I don't want to get into a relationship because it's expected you will get married and have kids, no matter what your sexuality is. I would kill any child that comes from me. Psychologists have tried to try to convince me that I wouldn't ever since I was like 12, but I know I would. Why are they so deadset that it's a good idea for everyone and that everything will come naturally? I would feel a lot safer if I knew for sure that I'm infertile, so even in the case of rape, nothing would happen. I don't hate children, would never hurt other people's children, but anything that comes from me wouldn't survive and I wouldn't halfass it. I'm afraid for a handmaid's tale situation where I'll not even have the option to abort and I would have to resort to infanticide, because it would have to happen. I don't hate children, they're natural comedians and can be very sweet, I have babysat with no problem and actually enjoyed it. But it's my destiny that if anything would come from me specifically, it can't be allowed to survive. I don't know why people think I'll ever change my mind about this, please make me infertile if I'm not already. My mother didn't get to succeed, she half assed it and I slipped through the cracks, so now I have to make sure it ends with me.

No. 304194

bragging, it feels so good to have a longterm bf on board with being childfree. i dont have to worry about him changing his mind or microwaving my bc pills or getting baby rabies.

the 21st century sucks in a lot of ways but it's never been a better time to be a woman

No. 304211

I don't think most men would want kids with women they're not yet married to. Without kids and commitment he gets to fuck you and be in a romantic relationship with little to no financial burden. If you had kids, he'd have to either marry you and take responsibility or pay child support.

No. 304221

>I don't actually understand how people afford kids without going into stupid levels of debt or being a $200k software eng.
From what I've seen they either simply move to an area where raising children is affordable (this is what I did) or they'll take the section 8 trash route and attempt to fit multiple kids into an itty bitty apartment or trailer. I also seen a lot of young people just live with others to afford everything, usually family, even if the circumstance they're in is unlikable. IMO I don't have any respect for people who bring children in the world in an unlikable circumstance (shit baby daddy, having to live with white trash parents, etc) but if someone makes less and can give their child a good life I respect them for that

No. 304226

Baby daddy/momma culture is such a fucking cult i swear. What drives these men to fuck everybody's lives up and sire tons of kids with multiple woman? Don't get me started on women who willingly go and have kids with a man, before they marry, knowing that that same man has other children with past partner/s and then despite knowing how shitty this dude is, the baby mommas all seem to fight for the scrote's attention and bad mouth each other when they need to realise your enemy is not another woman but the dude you fools have been fucking. Excuses of wanting good for their own lives or for their children don't make sense. It all just screams pickme energy and delusion with the way they seem to breed and live in the toxicity. A clear lack of self control and responsibility.

No. 304230

there's plenty of men who do want kids, do fuck all once the kid's there and just pay some of the bills and let their wives take care of everything else, in fact I'd say that's the default. So just let anon be happy she's found someone who's also childfree.

No. 304257

Nta but do you really think men will give you a bigger commitment if you have their kids? Even if married? Think of how many single moms are out there who probably thought the same thing.

>Without kids and commitment he gets to fuck you and be in a romantic relationship with little to no financial burden

This is normal for most young people who have things going on for themselves. It’s called dating. Do you even enjoy being with men or just see relationships as transactional? The ability to date without immediately seeking marriage or children also protects a woman just as much or more as it does a man in a relationship.

I don’t mean to be harsh, but this is the childfree thread and it seems like you’re pissing on anon with a take that doesn’t belong here.

No. 304258

I'm not saying kids mean men commiting to you, I'm saying a man won't have kids with a woman he's just dating. Most men date women of all sorts and then marry one type of woman that resembles their mother and have kids with her. A lot of men will tell women they don't want kids or marriage just to get married and have kids right after dumping the girl they lied to.

No. 304263

AYRT, aight that’s fair and a good point. I really wish the best for anon and hopefully she’s the type to see through that BS if its true. Women don’t need a man like that anyways.

No. 304264

I'm in my early 20s, no kids and I want to get a tubal ligation in the near future as even the idea of being "fertile" makes me extremely anxious and uncomfortable. Is that even possible or should I just brace myself for disappointment everywhere I go kek

No. 304265

I hope anons boyfriend isn't the type and they manage to have a happy marriage/relationship however they wish. Though it's good to be cautious and not to waste too much time on relationships before they get serious.

No. 304270

It kinda depends on where you are on the world but if you're in the US, I've seen lists with recommended doctors floating around on spaces like r/childfree. I don't have one on hand but you can probably find it if you google.

No. 304278

Almost all my life having children was something that didn't even seem like an option to me. And I don't mean in some kind of "I'm ugly no one will ever love me" way, but it just amazes me when someone asks about anything of that nature. I'm actually more weirded out by women disclosing their plans to have children or happily announcing they're pregnant. Makes me kinda uncomfortable. It's probably the autism.

No. 304279

just got a kitten recently and i have so much regret. it's only shown me how kids are definitely not for me. my life would be over.

No. 304291

kittens are tiny toddlers that are capable of climbing screen doors.

No. 304298

kittens act really different when they age into adult cats; they're very rambunctious the first year and then they mellow out. however if you really can't take care of it properly and you hate it it's okay to rehome it. give it to a good home and don't be lazy about that part. better than you neglecting it and making it neurotic so no one else can ever connect with it.

No. 317287

not a new take but I really hate how it's just expected that women put their careers, interests, and free time to one side just to risk their lives reproducing. I get some women genuinely want to be mothers, but I think a lot less actually want to be mothers than people think. I believe most of them are just conditioned into thinking that's what they want because society grooms them into it.

No. 317317

I saw a twitter thread with a bunch of scrotes talking about how childless people won't have legacies to be passed down. do these retards think their great grandkids will know or care about them? nobody is remembers unless they're actual famous people.

No. 317330

Personally the ones that talk about their genetic legacy are the most ridiculous. You share 50% of your genes with either of your parents, 25% with grandparents, 12.5% with great-grandparents, and it keeps diminishing so that after a few generations you have no more genetically in common with your descendants that a random stranger, and after enough generations you are either related to all people alive or no people alive in the world. And if you have no special unique mutation and it's unlikely you do, the same genetic material you contributed to the pool was contributed by others too.
It's mostly people who think bio and adopted kids are not the same who ramble about genetics, I really can't understand that, I pick up a stray cat from the street and I love it as if I personally birthed it, let alone if I adopted a child.

No. 317608

Just read the baby thread and had to stop myself from replying how miserable all their posts sounded. It’s just a bunch of young tired women with leaky breasts and no lives other than baby, or young women crying about how they’re old and need to find a man for a baby. I thank god I never wanted kids every day.

No. 317618

I just want women to be happy whether that's with or without child, and I think it's possible to genuinely love and enjoy having kids, but reading those discussions amongst mothers always further confirms for me that it's not for me.

No. 317651

That's because they are asking for advice for problems. Most people don't post on the internet about how they are having no problems and are totally happy. Having children is great a majority of the time and hard as hell some of the time. You just don't go online and brag about how happy you are and how your kids are perfect, especially if other people are having issues.

No. 317712

>You just don't go online and brag about how happy you are and how your kids are perfect
No people do, just not in those spaces.

No. 318033

I was looking up places to camp that are childfree (mostly just ages 55+ rv parks or very remote cabins, over 21 resorts exist but are scarce) and I came across so much complaining about these places existing at all. I find this so greedy of parents. The entire world is literally catered to them as well as most camping experiences. Go to KOA or state campgrounds that is your fate for having children. I saw some parents complaining that these 55+ parks should be "legally required" to accommodate some younger guests. Why should they? Again the whole fucking world allows kids but they really can't handle a few places of peace and quiet. This is recreation and some people want it in peace without screaming brats

No. 318036

As an ex-child, you should have at least some understanding.
Though you can be child-free as an adult, everyone's life includes at least one child - themselves.
Children ARE ubiquitous, and I get not wanting to have them (I don't either), but not wanting to even be near them is too much to ask.

No. 318038

This post sounds male although anon is probably a woman. Imagine calling women's breasts leaky, wtf. Get help you mentally ill freak and tie your tubes as soon as you can, your daughter would be doomed to be born to a mental pseudoincel like you.

No. 318040

yeah I agree. You can't try to make the outdoors completely child-free, that's kind of unhinged. There's plenty of quiet spots you can find if you really want to be alone or with a group of friends. Being mad no one is willing to ban children from a camping spot is bizarre

No. 318043

It's not too much to ask and the success of these parks proves there is a market for it. You're being strange

No. 318062

"B-but won't somebody think of the profits" isn't the argument you think it is

No. 318063

You are arguing in bad faith. If you reread my post you'd see me explain there are already so, so many places for people to camp with their children. Why is a handful of these 21+ places existing offensive towards you? Explain

No. 318065

I said it's unreasonable, not offensive, and I already stated why, child

No. 318066

Children should be allowed everywhere because you say so isn't an argument

No. 318101

>as an ex-child
Not that dumb argument please, there's nothing wrong with people not wanting kids around them in private retreats, it's not like anon wants to ban them from public places or something.

No. 318106

Dude idk how else to put it to you, but all you raving against children around you as if they're some unnecessary intruders are batshit insane.
You're not raving against some foreign entity, you're raving against your former selves. That's nuts.

No. 318136

nta but what's batshit insane about it? they're not literally yelling at children to leave kek. sometimes i don't even want to be around other adults either.

No. 318178

>comes into childfree thread
>w-won't someone think of the CHILDREN
>y-you can't want CHILDFREE SPACES
Bro why did you even come in here

No. 318307

>you should have at least some understanding.
Shouldn't you? There's many bussinesses catering to families already and they won't disappear just for a few kid free spaces for childfree adults.

>You can't try to make the outdoors completely child-free
Anon was talking about camping places, it's not like she wants to void the entire outdoor space of kids.

No. 323579

My entire thing with being a parent is I don't want to fuck up cause I know what happens when you do and it a tiny human being. The thought of it sounds fucking insane. Could be cause i'm young but I just can't see it.

also funny thing that happened
Recently went to the ER and heard a nurse say "Some people shouldn't procreate." about two parents and they're annoying ass baby.

No. 323584

I've never wanted kids, got told the usual spiel, I'll change my mind when I'm older etc. I'm about to enter the last year of my 20s and I still have 0 desire to procreate. I now take care of an older relative and I imagine having a kid is like this but 100 times worse. I love him so I do everything without complaint, but I can't imagine how insane it must be to willingly put yourself in a caretaker role, for the rest of your life.

No. 323668

I never want to go through pregnancy nor childbirth and I don't want to spread on my genes. But if I am stable financially then later on I will likely adopt a child, and give them a pleasant childhood. It's not a goal so it's whatever works out and I am perfectly comfortable never having children. I love having pets and hobbies and being on my own.

No. 324784

I want a bisalp to make damned sure but I hate doctors and fear surgery too much. Plus I'd still have to take my birth control pills either way because it's preventing menstruation and I will unalive myself if I have to suffer one more god damned period in my life. I started getting them at 12. TWELVE. I've had enough for a lifetime. I wish a magic fairy could just yeet all my reproductive bits with no complications or pain or risk. It bothers me so much that I have to carry a uterus around everywhere when it's nothing but a vestigal organ.
seethe harder, I'm not suffering any more periods and I'm not suffering to be in the presence of a child. No cocomelon and babyshark for me. I will never have to smell a shit-filled diaper or scrub crayon off my wall. No having my eardrums perforated with 130 decibal high pitched hell shrieking and toddler meltdowns. Kids are so fucking annoying I'd rather be in a convention hall of hundreds of andrew tate fans than in a room with ONE child.

women birthing children is an act of self-harm.

No. 324792

Anyone here who like children / like being the cool wine aunt but can't fathom having one of your own? I'm at that weird age where half my friends are getting married and having kids where the other half are kinda floating around dating / having fuckbuddies.

I'm in neither because irl scrotes gross me out and there are too many statistics related with downsides of pregnancy (1 out of 10 men cheat on their wives when they become pregnant, scrotes demanding sex during / right after pregnancy, scrotes changing their tunes and negging their wives post-birth body, scrotes realizing that children need care and attention and money and regretting it, scrotes not helping to take care of kid(s) in general and putting 100% of chores and child rearing on women even if she's working a full time job, women literally dying during pregnancy / during childbirth / after childbirth) so I refuse to have sex with scrotes. Even if I were to find a good looking nigel, I don't want to fuck my body up with taking birth control (I've tried a variety of them before and every one of them made me psychotic). Not to mention moids could easily run while I'm shackled with his child, plus I don't want other complications like STDs and whatnot even though I do have a high sex drive. I just take care of it myself.

However, I love helping out my friends with their kids and my heart still melts when I see kids around me. Maybe it's my biology tricking me, but at the end of the day I have 0 desire to fuck a real moid because they're all gross and disgusting. One of my friends suggested maybe getting a sperm donor, but I don't want to carry a child or benefit some sick moid's fantasy of 'spreading his genes', plus I don't think I can handle raising a kid all by myself.

No. 324794

I also like being children and helping them, but I spent my childhood having to help with childcare in my big family and I certainly don’t want any myself. I see parenthood as your life no longer being just your own, and I really don’t want to do that. I’ll gladly help my friends or family if any of them ever have kids but i dont have any desire to be a main caretaker for someone.

No. 324805

Your uterus isnt just important for having kids, I wish this backwards ass view would go away, that its just an incubator. Men dont want to lop off their testicles when they dont want kids, so why are women so brainwashed into thinking their reproductive organs dont matter if they dont want kids? Removing the reproductive organs should be last resort in case of cancer etc, removing them has a massively negative impact on health.

Its frankly such internalised misogyny to hate an important organ that regulates your entire body, just bc women are forced to use it for creating children. Its not the organ or womens faults. Its not just there for making babies.

No. 324810

I agree. Removing your uterus makes it very likely for you to get prolapses in the future also. It's not normal to want to remove a perfectly healthy part of your body that balances your internal organs.

No. 324812

12 is normal nona. I support you and I’m not dissimilar to you in basic opinion, I stopped my period with IUDs and I’m not having children and I’m guessing I’m like a decade older than you, but you’re being really dramatic with a lot of your post lol. babies crying isn’t that bad get a grip

No. 324829

AYRT and I get how you feel. I didn't have a big family but I have a sibling who's on the spectrum (high functioning enough to be independent but not enough to be a functioning adult, doesn't have friends, has no self control, can't hold jobs etc). Thankfully he's not my responsibility anymore but I had to coparent him with my parents often growing up. Probably another reason why I don't want to birth my own child, if I had to go through what my parents have gone through (and are going through) I'd just end up resenting everything, including the child. I know it's not their fault for being born like that, but if I were to ever conceive a child on the spectrum I don't know what else I could do other than give them up for adoption.

Whenever I see people have a healthy child I breathe a sigh of relief, and I don't want to risk playing that genetic lottery especially when it's so close to my kin. I probably have much higher chances of my kids being on the spectrum too. Call me selfish but I don't care, I could never take care of an autistic child without losing my own sanity.

No. 324831

I'm a good provider.
I'm a shitty caregiver.
Low EQ, highly competitive, prefer machines and nature to people.
I would knock up a woman and fund her raising my kids though, because picturing some human being descended from me doing their own thing 2,000 years later is dope.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 324841

No. 324847

it's a scrote, report and don't respond to the bait

No. 324982

>auditory torture isn't that bad get a grip lmao it's just a guaranteed migraine for the rest of the day and the next morning and a mental breakdown from stress
i absolutely fucking hate children and refuse to be in their presence
so it's just stuffing. wanting to be rid of useless shit that poses a threat to me is not misogyny

No. 324983

Elective hysterectomies have been linked to higher risks of early onset dementia, it's not worth it. There are other birth control methods put there.

No. 324985

You realise that you will enter menopause when you get a total hysterectomie right?

No. 324991

Hysterectomies are not worth it all all unless you have endometriosis or some other debilitating health condition that would warrant it. What exactly is that point of removing a perfectly well function organ of your body when alternatives such as abstinance or birth control are far less harmful? It's honestly just mutilation at that point if you do it. Periods are annoying, but they will never be as bad as putting yourself through a potentially fatal surgery for no good reason.

No. 325014

You personally should get a hysterectomy, actually. Go for it.

No. 325039

Nonnas, do any of you worry you'll regret not having kids when you're older? I have zero desire to have children and I'm in my mid 30s now. But I'm worried I'll change my mind when it's too late. I think it's probably just society telling me that but I'm kind of second guessing myself since I'm getting to the age where some friends are having IVF etc. I have literally never wanted kids, never felt maternal and on top of that had a traumatic childhood and am fucked up so would be a terrible parent. So why am I worried? Just because the door is closing? Would love to hear if anyone has a similar experience.

No. 325041

it's not just stuffing, as anons have said above it can cause serious health issues. have you looked into novasure?

No. 325042

no because I wholeheartedly believe having kids is the wrong choice for me but even if that wasn't the case, I'm strongly morally opposed to having kids considering my genetics and more so considering what we currently know/expect of the future and I could't forgive myself if I did have kids (please don't see this as an opportunity to start a discussion/infight if you disagree, I know it's a touchy subject but I'm just sharing my reasoning)

No. 325054

Having kids is forever. Will you be happy being a mother to your colicky infant who hasn't let you sleep for three days? Will you be happy leaving work early because your toddler has explosive diarrhea and the school doesn't want to deal with that? Will you be happy looking after a child who clings to you constantly, lets you have no privacy or peace, needs endless attention, finds ten new ways to injure themselves before breakfast, is a menace to themselves and anything within their reach, and needs constant love and kindness regardless? Kids need care 24/7. If you've never wanted any, and know you'd be a terrible parent, then yes, you're being memed into wanting a baby. How will your life improve if you have kids? What are your non-childfree friends looking for in their lives that made them decide to have kids? What are you, personally, looking for in your life, and would it align with kids in any capacity?

No. 325058

Yeah sometimes I worry about that. I think I have the thought that when so many people say something (“you’ll regret it”) there’s probably a reason. Same age, not having kids either. The concern comes up more often as I get older… but I still don’t want to have children. I think about fostering (not sure the system is sound though) or adopting (same concerns about the system, I’m not going to buy a baby for christs sake). I have so many siblings and nieces and nephews, there’s a million of us I just can’t add to that. I love kids I think they’re amazing, it doesn’t bother me when babies are upset it makes total sense to me, watching a kid learn something for the first time is totally charming, the weird things they say are adorable or funny or shocking, I think they’re fun even when they’re a struggle. Just don’t really want to have them myself, can’t explain beyond that.

No. 325070

I work in an IVF clinic and if I had a dollar or every woman I have met who said she was SO SURE that she would NEVER want kids and now deeply regrets not having them when she was still young and healthy.. well I could retire early.

No. 325077

Kinda. But at the end of the day if I ever "change my mind" I don't mind adopting or fostering. Right now and the next 5 years though? I'm keeping my legs closed, probably forever, because no scrote is worth being anywhere close to my body and/or passing his disgusting genes onto the next generation. inb4 "just take birth control" I refuse to take it, it's literally poison + no birth control is 100%.

Nice bait

No. 325081

It comes across my mind occasionally, but in my opinion if you're doubting now then parenthood isn't your calling and its better to possibly maybe regret it later than now. I'm in my early 30s and I've never felt the urge, deep desire, baby thoughts, the calling, etc. I've never been able to explain why I don't feel like I want to have kids, so I thought I was the weird one but now I've realized there's plenty of other women who are the same. I think in the past people just had kids because there was nothing to do but fuck and social/cultural pressure.. so thats why we all had friends/classmates with shitty parents.
And sure babies are cute, but the baby stage is just a couple of years, then it becomes an annoying screaming toddler, and the kid's personality as a teen is luck. But real parenthood isn't just raising a cute kid, it's raising a person for 20 years into a functioning adult… which comes with good but also with a bunch of bad with some shitty variables you can't control… and I feel like most people can't handle that. But if thats your dream and calling, then bless you because I couldn't take the risk kek.
Also as former elementary teacher, imo like 10~15% of kids are pure shit and that's just their personality that the parent is stuck with, 10% are angels whose parents got lucky, and the rest are meh. And I'll be honest, if my kid had some issues or problems I'll probably regret it for life considering I had a peaceful and happy life pre-kid… so I take that as the sign kek
Also go browse r/regretfulparents for a while if youre not sure and want to read others perspectives (especially women)

No. 325107

I mean you work at the place for that so no shocker there. No doubt those women exist.

No. 325127

There are millions of homeless children. They should adopt them instead of wasting a ton of money and resources to add another human to the eight billion on Earth.

No. 325128

>works at IVF clinic
>statistics proves that women are otherwise happier without kids

Ik, probably bait, but you don’t think your view is warped or bias in anyway?

No. 325129

>works at IVF clinic
>statistics proves that women are otherwise happier without kids

Ik, probably bait, but you don’t think your view is warped or bias in anyway?

No. 325169


Omg nonnas thank you for setting me straight. I have lots of 'reasons' not to have kids - I'm selfish, love my life now and would be a bad/resentful parent, I would hate the monotony of childcare, my partner also doesn't want kids and would be a bad parent, I feel like there is so much that can go horribly wrong with a kid, it seems extremely boring, my family is gigantic and fucked up and the world doesn't need any more of us, the world is fucked so why bring a kid into it (I'm also a loony who believe humans have irreparably fucked it and should cease to exist) etc etc. But above all that as one nonna said I just don't actually WANT a kid in the same way I don't want a sports car or a dog or something, I just don't. And having a kid so it can look after you when you're old just seems fucked up to me. I also spent some time browsing the regretful parents Reddit and yeah that hammered it home. How can they all STILL be saying they love their kids at the literal same time as saying they wish they didn't have them. Mad. I actually like kids and used to work in daycare but couldn't cope with that 24/7. I also feel if I'm super miserable and lonely when I'm ancient I can just off myself, would rather be happy and enjoy myself now than sacrifice that for some hypothetical future. Will just send my neices and nephews loads of cash so they feel obliged to be nice to me kek.

Btw one nonna said about birth control being poison & I agree but unfortunately I'm in love with a moid and I love d so I don't have much choice. I have the copper coil though which is non hormonal and am considering getting my tubes tied. Am also trying to convince him to get a vasesctomy but he's precious about his balls ofc.

No. 325254

AYRT (birth control is poison anon) and man, I hope your moid can get the snip instead so you won't have to go through getting your tubes tied. If he really loved and respected your decision to not have kids HE should be the one getting the snip, not you suffering a very invasive surgery with insane downtime.

Getting the snip for men is so much easier + has a faster recovery time. They're not gonna cut off his balls kek, the docs are just gonna disconnect the path where his sperm travels and that's literally it. They can still 'cum' (it just won't have sperm in it) and you can reassure him that he can keep his ~precious~ balls. apologies but I threw up a little typing that out kek, moids thinking that vasectomy is like getting fixed like a dog makes me wonder if they even have a brain in between those ears

It sucks that I don't find any irl moids around me attractive to do anything with them, plus even if I did they'd never get the snip because 'what if I change my mind wahhh'. I have a very high sex drive and it sucks, but I really don't want to risk anything with a man so I just take care of it myself.

sage for blogposting + no1curr

No. 325268

Kek Nona this made me laugh and you're so right but I'm yet to find a moid who doesn't think his dick and balls are sacred. At least this one is good in bed and a good partner. I will keep trying. My IUD expires this year so I think that presses the issue a bit. He also doesn't want kids, so it really is just a squeamish male ego thing.

No. 325299

Thinking an important female only organ is useless stuffing is internalised misogyny.

No. 325511

my ovaries are important. my uterus does jack shit for me except make me suffer menstruation every month for 40 years.

No. 327565

I’m child free because theres people out there having enough kids for the rest of us. A cousin has 4 young girls with the youngest just barely turning 1 and she’s already due this month with a boy because her useless scrote husband “needed” a son. Fucking awful.

No. 328732

Has this happened to anybody else? I'm a normal looking woman in my 20's, I'm well groomed and dress in regular clothes nothing provocative or torn. I notice that parents act weird around me though. For example I was walking past a mom and her kid into a store and the mom dramatically held out her hand and hid her kid's face/ushered him faster past me. It weirded me out. Another example is when I was outside working on my flowerbed some neighbor kids were playing on the greenspace nextdoor to my house. Suddenly their mom comes flying out of the house screams at them in a scared voice like they were near a wild tiger "GET AWAY FROM THERE COME HERE!!1" and makes them play on the greenspace away from me where I was calmly weeding and not even talking to her kids. It made me feel weird when I didn't even do anything. I hate kids by the way but I'm not mean to them I just kind of act like they don't exist so the protective reactions are odd to me. Like I don't want to steal your fugly ass kid brenda I could incubate one myself if I were so inclined and I'm not. Ever

No. 328737

And you're not a troon? Maybe you look like one?

No. 328748

Some moms are just weird like that. It's annoying but not worse than the moms with strollers who believe pushing one entitles them to take over as much space as they want with them.

Yesterday on my train ride home, a mom left a stroller open in the middle of the walkway and gave me the filthiest glare when I asked her to move it so that me and several other passengers behind me could exit the train car. She huffed and made such a big deal of it as if everyone else on the train was inconveniencing her. There was no reason for her to even have it unfolded like that because her man was holding the baby.

No. 328753

Either you're misinterpreting the situation and it wasn't about you or you're not as normal as you think/claim you are.

No. 328760

Although this anon >>328748
is right and some women knowingly push their strollers towards strangers and stuff, if several mothers are scared over you getting close to their child, it's either super common for kids to get kidnapped or you're acting weird/glaring at them without noticing.

No. 328779

I honestly want to be childfree because not only is it a ridiculous expectation from us when we hit a certain age, but it's also easier said than done. I overthink a lot and I dont think I have the mental capacity to even be at peace with myself while knowing i am responsible for a growing human being. Children are glued to their screens 24/7 these days filled with disgusting youtube kids videos, porny ads, and so much more. And even if I dont give my child a screen at a young age, he or she is bound to go out and see it from its peers. What if it becomes mentally ill from what its seen online, or because I wasn't a good parent? I am already going on and on like a schizo about a nonexistent child of mine idk how others can be or pretend to be atleast, calm and collected while caring for theirs. And god, imagine the health complications it could have as an infant. What if it's severely autistic? Nope. The world has too many people already. It would not make me or the world happy if i birth another child into this world that's already spiralling downhill at a much faster rate than when I was a kid. My mento health is more important. And it will get worse If I do have a kid, which in turn would also make that kid as mentally unstable as me.

No. 328992

One stock phrase I can't stand is "I too didn't want children until I met my husband and I immediately knew I wanted to have his kids, just wait until you meet the right guy!", okay good for you nut what if I don't want to meet somebody? I'm a volcel first and foremost and I've never been attracted to anybody anyway, it's not going to change.