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No. 82410
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No. 82412
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this is what the designer said
No. 82414
>>82412what a fucktard.
That's like saying the swastika isn't offensive because it began as a religious symbol in buddhism.
No. 82416
>>82409This should not be in /g/
>>82414Swastika is not offensive and buddists still use that symbol
No. 82417
>>82412Bullshit.
>>82415Same reason adult media rarely depicts overt sexual violence but killing other adults is a-okay. It seems to stem from a culture of "I'd rather be dead than get raped". I'd agree, there's worse things than being dead.
No. 82418
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>>82409Even if loli and shota were representing pornography and not just some kind of reversion-to-childhood fantasy, it's still fictionalized pornography afaik. I've never seen those words refer to real kids at least, it always just refers to some anime/manga uguuuus. (western neckbearded dweebs ironically calling people "loli" don't count). I think Austin is kinda getting ahead of himself conflating moeblobs with real kids. I don't think it's immoral.
That said, this is still trashy as fuck and very, very obvious pandering, so I don't mind those girls getting shat on for it. They should've known the kind of reaction they might receive, unless they really are that naive in which case fuck them anyway. I mean, you wanna wear hypebeast clothing, at least wear one of those inoffensive vaporwave sweaters ffs!
>>82414Imo the swastika depends on the context. If you're Jewish and someone spray paints a swastika on your house, possibly with other Nazi references, sure it's offensive, but if a Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist temple uses the swastika (turned the other way) on some banner, it's fine. It's the difference between a skinhead guy having a swastika tattooed along with the 14 words slogan versus some hippie long-haired dude with a bunch of tattoos of Hindi or other foreign writing and random religious symbols. All in the context
No. 82419
>>82417I understand that sexual violence (and sex in general) occupies a special moral/ethical space in society - that's the reason.
But I don't think that everyone would say that being raped is "worse" (in whatever way) than just being murdered.
Sage bc tangent.
No. 82420
Reminds me of the controversy with omocat's sweaters. These words are often used with completely different meanings, I can understand why people understand them automatically as meaning porn and being uncomfortable.
>>82415>>82417I always thought depiction of murder is more accepted is because it's so obvious that murder and death are bad that nobody in their right mind would argue that these things aren't big deal irl.
Whereas for rape and sexualization of children/minors in general, well, there are a bunch of perverts in general all over the world who might think there's nothing really wrong with it irl or people who argue about that stuff, so people can get defensive pretty fast when it comes to that subject.
Plus depending on the circumstances of course, rape seems more "personal" than murder. Some people talked about it but I don't think I'm good at explaining these things.
>>82418I've heard some nasty shit about suspicious magazines sold in Japan depicting minors in compromising positions, let's say. Not just idols but also little girls as young as 8 years old. I don't have sources though, I read that a long time ago, the article was about laws trying to prevent this iirc.
No. 82424
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that shota boy character is in the yaoi shirt design as well.. with dorito senpai
No. 82425
>>82420Yeah that happens but they're referred to as "gravure" idols, not loli or shotas. Idk if as young as 8, but yeah you can get 16 yr old girls doing underwear modelling, even younger I think. Haven't seen boys doing that but it may exist, I just don't know. But either way loli or shota don't refer to real-kids-pornography which is my main point.
>>82421Yeah I think most people don't agree with it on principle, so even though it's not inherently immoral, those WeebTrash girls should have known better…especially since I think the main reason anyone would wear those kinds of shirts is for attention (particularly from the opposite gender), exactly through that ambiguity of is-that-sexual-or-not?
>>82424Aw come on. They got the Dorito chin but no yaoi hands? Missed opportunity
No. 82426
>>82420I'd disagree that, universally, murder is seen as definitely immoral, while rape is seen as sometimes acceptable. But these things are impossible to truly quantify, anyway.
It seems like any sexual component to violence is gratuitous - as you say, it's very personal. Now that I think about it, it's identical to how torture is viewed. If you shoot a guy in the temple and leave him to die, that's one thing, but if you strap him to a board and systemically torture him over a prolonged period of time, that is cruel and unacceptable.
Re: very young girls being shot in sketchy positions for photoshoots, that is still a different beast than the drawn stuff.
No. 82464
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Pathetic shirts but the buttmad comments are some thoughtless SJW shit; who cares about a cartoon either way. Omg guys if you sell a shirt with Sasuke Uchiha fanart on it then you are profiting off promoting sibling murder!
No. 82468
>>82420>I don't have sources though, I read that a long time ago, the article was about laws trying to prevent this iirc. CP was only banned in Japan five or so years ago, bbc just had an article about it
>>82425Any person that has erotic photos published in a magazine is called a gravure idol, it literally refers to "magazine idol"
No. 82480
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http://www.streetcherub.com/Oh lord that Austin guy sells shitty shirts as well. It looks similar to hers as well.
No. 82489
>>82438She's explaining, very poorly, the etymology of the word. It developed as a term for the victorian "girlish aesthetic" that came around when these novels first entered Japan. Alice and Lolita entered into Japan around the same time, and as more of these novels came from overseas, lolita was the term that was used to describe novels with young female protagonists with an "old fashioned" girlish aesthetic. It eventually evolved to describe girlish western clothes for teens and young adults, styles of decor and novels. Finally it became applied to the fashion movement in the late 80s. The word itself didn't describe the sexual lolita until the early 90s.
TLDR; she fucking sucks at trying to explain her viewpoint. It would be better to keep the shirt as "edgy desu" art shirts sold to weebs. Why the hell did she ever advertise though, she had to know she'd get shit for shirts like that.
No. 82494
>>82491These shirts and every brand that does the same weaboo anime trash look stupid and tacky, but I don't think it's harmful. The people that buy and wear these things tend to be dumb teenagers and young adults who ironically call themselves a shota/loli because they're petite.
Imo the nymphet and DDLG stuff is much worse, those blogs see nothing wrong with posting pictures of real children as part of their aesthetic.
No. 82495
>>82491>>82494I'm one of the anons from upthread and I'm not butthurt over the shirts, just think they're tryhard and stupid.
That said I'm bitter that I'm not making extra cash by pandering to the edgy weeaboo crowd.
No. 82537
>>82458This is honestly cringier than those shota loli shirts.
At least you know what people to avoid when they openly wear this shit and think it looks cool.
No. 82566
>>82489In the incredibly niche way Japan has adopted the term lolita had NOTHING to do with how the west uses 'lolita' aka the novel Lolita.
They honestly had the misfortune to choose a heavily loaded word based on visuals, not understanding where the fuck the term 'lolita' comes from in western culture. That makes this whole thing…fucking awkward.
No. 82922
>>82874no, it's a flat out loli porn ova
some things must be known very well so that you can avoid seeing them
No. 82930
>>82468is it this article?
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30698640Fuck man, don't you guys find it strange how such a large number of japanese people are obsessed with youth, to the point where they desecrate them? I as an American am not trying to point fingers, in the U.S. teens are sexualized early on (which is why I don;t understand why 14 year olds can't get sex ed in some states yet it's totally fine to make thousands of movies in which their #1 goal is to lose their virginity), but I feel that the line between cp and that is not as fine.
No. 86461
Somewhat on topic, but has anyone else somewhat desensitized to the somewhat loli stuff? Like I feel as if I"m more okay with things now then I would be if I jumped into anime and manga this day.
At the same thing things that young me didn't mind because I was either close to their age or was too naive to see the the problem with it, are now most definitely bothering me. It just makes me feel uncomfortable and I hate it especially when it's in series I otherwise like.
It makes me feel like I should have some sort of detox to remember how normal people see this kind of stuff.
>>82930Reading that article.. didn't Kyary Pyamu Pyamu start off as a "junior idol"? What parents would have their kids do such a thing…
No. 86484
>>86461I definitely feel like I'm desensitized to most porn-genre anime for the reason you stated: long term exposure. I have cringe reactions to junior idol shit, but majority of 2D does nothing.
However, I find myself unconsciously putting myself in the shoes of female characters. So while loli/teen 2D is OK for me, straight shota makes me feel a little weird. It's not my thing, but I assume it's just the male reverse of the way I see loli.
No. 86543
>>86484I think that's a big part too, there's no "huehuehue teen girls" for me since I put myself in the shoes of the female as well. It's just that so much hentai is either flat chested girls that look a bit on the young side, or giant tits that are painful to look at.
It's hard finding a middle ground, I personally prefer young adult characters because i"m in that age category now anyway.