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No. 74814
File: 1456776643422.jpg (1.05 MB, 1600x1600, support_PETA.jpg)
I proudly tell people I'm a member of PETA.
>PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
No. 74824
>>74814Why do meat eaters simultaneously believe they are better (more intelligent) than other animals and are top of the food chain but at the same time claim they're "just animals" and can't control their "instincts" like otherkin sickos?
Like, at least stick to one.
No. 74848
>>74830Not every vegetarian/vegan is deficient, there are other ways to get essential vitamins than consuming meat. I think this thought comes from assuming that all veg meals are basic garden salads. It's only natural to insult something you don't understand I guess.
Anon, never look at Kiki as being a model vegan or Onision as being the ideal vegetarian. They're both unhealthy greasy skinnyfats that are only in it for the percieved 'superiority'. Their diet most likely consists of greasy junk food like potato chips.
No. 74852
>>74835Everything, you need it for certain nutrients. Since your a Vegan you probably already know which ones i'm talking about.
Oh yeah totally the meat… Are you serious? Not the whole world is 'Murica, and just to clarify, you know 99.99% of the worlds population eats meat right?
Now whats the difference between 'Murica and other countires? PROCESSED FOOD!
No. 74853
>>74848>>Something you don't understandI was a Vegan for two years, all it gave me was a D-vitamin deficiency, low iron levels and fatigue.
Before i went vegan i was trim and energetic, it totally fucked me up.
And before you say "hurr durr D-vitaminsare from the sun durr" Not everyone has the luxury of living in a warm country where you have the sun shining the whole year, so where i'm from you HAVE to also get it from food. And yes i ate fucking beans.
No. 74858
>>74853You get it from the sun or you take a supplement. What a pathetic excuse. I like in the UK and I've no vitamin D deficiency.
Try another excuse maybe.
No. 74866
>>74864That's stupid as shit. So if you have a farm and keep some chickens, it's unethical to eat their eggs? And you're raping the cow by milking it?
Don't they realise meat eaters can actually exert (and already have) on the meat and dairy industry by choosing to buy organic, pain free produce? Thanks to people choosing to buy grassy knoll eggs chickens have way better living conditions. What more do they want?
No. 74872
>>74866Organic is just a label, there's no organisation like the leaping bunny to support it.
Killing an animal in a "nice" way is still that, killing an animal.
No. 74951
>>74950To answer that you'd have to look at why most people go vegan: animal cruelty, protecting the environment and health reasons.
In reality they're trying to spread the benefits and if any of the above are your passion you'd understand.
No. 74955
>>74952I agree with you wholeheartedly.
But it's hard for people who has watched the likes of Cowspiracy to sit back and do nothing. People who are met with cruel comments online for mentioning veganism tend to be more aggressive and I don't blame them.
No. 74976
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>>74955I watched a lot of the conditions chickens and pigs grow up in, basically raised to be slaughtered and it began to bother me. I remember people trying to normalized a factory belt full of chicken corpses hanging up-side down to be mashed into chicken nuggets for mcdonalds.
After seeing all that, it's very difficult for me to be a meat eater.I personally don't have issues with meat eaters. My fiance is an omnivore, however she eats only from farmers markets and fair-trade places.
I think that's fine. I just don't like when vegans and vegetarians are attacked by meat eaters. I don't know why so many of them have this 'i'm better than you attitude.'
I went out to eat a week ago with my fiance and her friend and there wasn't any real non-meat choices on the menu but nachoes and salsa or chips and spinach dip. I made a comment about every meal being meat and how they didn't have the option to substitute a burger for a veggie pattie and her friend sighs and goes "It's almost like we're meant to eat meat, anon."
she was such a fucking cunt about it. I honestly wish people would just respect other's decisions about their OWN diet.
No. 74978
>>74950Have you seen the comments here?
Have you seen the comments on any social media site once you mention you're vegan or vegetarian? A lot of meat eaters are assholes and want to post pictures of hamburgers or bacon just to retort. A lot of them really just turn into these "I'm better than thou" types and it really sucks because I know a lot of nice meat eaters, but the majority seem to think they're perfect and amazing because they eat cow every day.
No. 74987
>>74976ugh what a cunt, as an omnivore I apologise for her attitude and lack of menu options.
I hope you replied with something like "Its almost like you're meant to birth 5+ children and be in the kitchen, slut"
No. 74988
>>74987Damn!! I wish I had that snappy comeback at the time.
We were in Virginia for the context. People in Virginia are pretty…ugh. I'm from NYC, so I'm very used to vegetarian options.
No. 74991
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Have any anons had any experience dating a meat eater who is very fulfil about their diet? I'm having a hard time dating someone who is constantly pushing me to eat meat and ignoring my reasons for choosing not to, even though i already said I don't want to eat meat and been a vegetarian for over a year… I feel get made to feel guilt ridden because of this. It feels bad, man.
No. 75007
The way a majority of animal stuff is harvested is disgusting. Fur comes from animals that have been skinned alive usually-some get electrocuted through a probe that goes into their anus, leather comes from miserable bovine, the pork you eat is castrated without anesthesia while they loiter on top of a cesspool divided by a metal grate, cows are milked to the point that pus will come out, chicks are crushed and will be deformed by tiny cages if they survive, etc. Etc.
If you could just stop and REALLY think, like feel the awareness of your body and imagine these things like the pain and the fear…it's fucking horrible. Animals don't reason the way humans do (i believe), their pain and fear is pure pain and fear. That doesn't make them stupid or smart animals. It means that they feel.
I don't really judge the consumers of these things, but I do ask myself if the taste or look of these things are really worth it, especially as I myself consume most of these things. I tried going vegan for about a year and I liked it. It is kind of cumbersome due to the lack of convenience in many situations, but it's not difficult and I felt fine. I'd like to live a "mostly vegan" lifestyle if not just try to consume "humane" products.
On that note, everyone should truly educate themselves on where things come from/how before arguing either side. Someone who doesn't know shouldn't bitch about how great/horrible something is-they should be quiet and learn.
Yay for humane treatment or at least the conscious attempt. Processed foods can be…negative for the most part. And vitamins can be your friends wether you're vegan, vegetarian, or whatever.
The argument against "humane killing" as being dumb because its still killing is kind of stupid. That't like saying we shouldn't live well because we're going to die anyways.
Also, I love milk and milk products! I also like soymilk. Has anybody ever had "real" milk? Do any of you know of any animals other than us that drinks the milk from another animal?
No. 75008
>>75007>Fur comes from animals that have been skinned alive usually-some get electrocuted through a probe that goes into their anus,
>leather comes from miserable bovine,
>the pork you eat is castrated without anesthesia while they loiter on top of a cesspool divided by a metal grate, >cows are milked to the point that pus will come out, >chicks are crushed and will be deformed by tiny cages if they survive,Gonna need you to post proof of this being common practice in the industry, especially the claim about cows.
You don't know anything about dairy farming, clearly. Nobody milks until the udders leak pus. The cups are taken off once the milk stop flowing and then the teats are all treated with antiseptic balm.
If a miller has mastitis, which is what could cause pus from the udder, she's treated and her milk doesn't go anywhere near the vat. I think you're just parroting bullshit some hippy PETA member told you.
No. 75011
>>75008A person wouldn't, but what about a company/factory? The cow will stop giving milk and it is true that the cups will be removed, but the cow will be brought back. I cant say it happens 100 percent of the time because there's no way for me to know that it happens 100 percen of the time. Some of my family members own small farms and the cow shouldn't be milked multiple times in a day.
I've tried to do as much research as i can from books and online. The fur stuff I have seen and I probably will never forget.
You can access reports from inspectors online and see what they find too.
I shared what I believe to be true.
Educate me if I'm wrong please!
No. 75058
>>75011Cows aren't hurt by twice a day milking. Their udders fill fairly quickly and they can die of the infections if they aren't milked. Large dairy farms still don't milk until she leaks pus, if only because they only produce pus in the udder if they have mastitis or an infected wound.
Once a milker dries up she's no longer part of the herd and doesn't go into a milking she's again.
I've worked in dairies all over the state and nobody does anything remotely like what you described.
I'm not being paid to educate you, don't sit there and spout shit you don't know as a fact. Its retarded.
Nobody skins a live animal, you need it to be perfectly still in order to get the pelt without damaging it, plus entire industries aren't staffed purely by sociopaths. Battery hens are mean, but unless you can provide me with images of this happening on a wide scale, claiming they're malformed and crushed to death is fearmongering bullshit.
What are you, 11? You watched a fucking PETA video, you don't know shit about these industries.
No. 75075
>>75058Chill out, IF what you are saying is true then I've been misled by everything (including the things I have experienced and you have not). The fur business doesn't happen in usa but the states do buy it. My bad
And regardless of my age at least I'm not an ass
And i know not everyone is a sociopath in the industry. That wasn't even mentioned. That in itself is its own theme that is debatable.
For the sake of the discussion and topic at hand though, since you've worked at dairy farms all over the state, how does it usually all go down in the state you've worked in? To me, there's been an uprising with all this vegan stuff, unless I've only noticed it now that I'm a bit older, have you noticed it take any kind of toll on the dairies at all?
No. 75091
>>75075Look I get really I tense on this because dairy farmers are killing themselves enough in Australia as it is. Our old tank driver had found 11 hangings in various sheds over his life cause the industry is dying.
Everywhere I worked on a dairy, the cows are milked twice daily. Morning milk goes I. From about 3.30- 6.30 am and afternoon usually goes around the same.
You get on your motorbike or quad bike, walk the hers up to the shed, get your first lot into the rows or onto the rotary. Then you put on cups. By the time you've put on the last set of cups the first set is usually ready to come off. You remove the cups when there's just a tiny little trickle of milk going through the clear bit in the middle of the apparatus.
Once the cups are off, you run the teats down with an antiseptic balm and when the lot of them are done, you send them out back to the paddock and do the next lot.
You spouting blatantly made up things about how we work is ridiculous. How can you sit there and whine about fake problems happening to an animal you obviously don't know much about (or you'd know 'milking til pus wehhh weh weh' isn't possible)
So if your 'info' on getting fur, leather, eggs, and meat is from the same source or just as fake you're doing a huge disservice by spreading it.
Maybe all the vegans are around because its trendy, and because we have a generation of people who don't understand human biology, nutrition, agriculture, evolution or how we get our food.
A bunch of poorly educated, overly opinionated, self righteous shouting very loudly and making bold claims for shock factor or crying about 'muh morals' isn't by any stretch of the imagination correct.
No. 75093
>>75092Wow, what a smart, constructed and very convincing answer.
>>75091In my country too dairy farmers are slowly dying. I really feel bad for them because it's their life and their hard way of earning money. However even thought I know it won't happen I really hope the dairy business will end.
No. 75095
>>75091>eating a vegan burrito is offensive to mexicansApparently meat eaters are
triggered just as stupidly as sjws.
No. 75104
>>75099TIL that cow will destroy the human society if we stop milking and eating them.
And yeah some people feel really weird about drinking the milk of another specie, especially when if is made specifically to make a baby cow go from 130 pound to 500 pounds in six month.
No. 75106
>>74976Wow, I'm sorry anon. That's got little to do with you being a veg and more to do with her being an asshole.
A restaurant in my area recently declared they weren't going to serve anyone with dietary requirements and now it's being treated at a tourist spot by Americans who think it's cool that they won't serve vegies or people with allergies. Fuck sake.
No. 75107
>>75104They're huge grazing animals and if we don't get anything from them, how are we supposed to feed them all?
How do we manage their populations since bitches cry about culling them.
How do we replace the hectares of grazing land they will use up within months? Should we stop growing crops so the pwecious cowsies can graze everywhere?
Jesus Christ the malnutrition is making you legit retarded.
What about the millions of disenfranchised farmers? What about the millions of others employed to pasteurize milk or turn it into butter, yogurt, etc?
Just say "sorry. Off to the poorhouse with you. There's some children who don't like milk and therefore think the entire word has to do what suits their silly whims."
Or did you think that the cows will just never breed, and stay in their paddocks eating magical never-ending grass and hay that costs nothing?
No. 75111
>>75107How can a person be this stupid? If we aren't mass breeding them, their population will be low. Not that harmless cows running riot would hurt anyone anyway.
We've successfully grown fake meat in a lab, this is going to slowly become the norm and eatingreal meat will phase out. As will farms.
No. 75112
>>75107Are you saying that we can't control an animal population? Because we can. Vegan are not complete retard like you make them to be and everybody would be okay with maintaining cow population low enough to not hurt the environement and to keep our comfort.
I also think that you are aware of the fact that we will gain an enormous space if we stopped producing milk? In my home country, Brazil, a gigantic chunk of our forest has been destroyed to grow soy to feed cows.
No. 75113
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>>75108>thinks dairy farming isn't a real jobWow seriously anon, the lack of nutrition is fucking your brain.
I'm not telling you to drink milk or even to eat like a human, I'm all for removing the regards from society.
No. 75118
>>75111We don't have to mass breed them for their populations to spike uncontrolled somewhere like rural Victoria, where I live and worked as a dairy hand.
Who's gonna own cows if you can't eat or milk them? Where the fuck are they gonna be kept? Farms don't keep useless animals.
>>75112I'm saying a group of people who say bees are enslaved and cows are being raped would probably be a little pissy over large scale culling of worthless and/or destructive animals.
>>75111Lab meat is a long way off from being sold at Coles love. There's a lot of people who don't want to mess with that anyway.
Also, >harmless cows
Are you kidding?
Have you ever been near one? They're huge, they will charge you if they feel their calf is threatened, and if they kick you they can kill you or at least break some bones.
Watch some running of the bulls and imagine it without horns. Go sit in front of that and call it harmless.
No. 75124
>>75118A lot of animal are owned by no one, you have no problem with racoon not having any owner.
Imo we should create space of conservation, like national park or farm sanctuary in wich animals would be free to live, their population should be also kept under control.
1,40 billion cow is just to much.
Just like 7,4 billion human is way to much.
I don't think we could go India style and let cow roam free.
No. 75126
>>75118…are you unaware that the majority of the world's animals live in the wild? Or have you been homeschooled on that dairy farm?
Cows are not like rabbits, they have one male that breeds with the females during a specific season and then she raises the calf. The only reason why why have so many is because they're being force bred and the calves are taken, meaning they can have another asap.
No. 75127
>>75124A raccoon is a feral animal. A dairy cow is domesticated. Your argument Is invalid.
Who's gonna pay for this special cow paradise anon?
My taxes s
No. 75129
>>75126Cows aren't monogamous. A bull will fuck half the herd. If one herd has 60 calves a year and none of the animals are killed, where are they gonna get space and food
Cows aren't native animals in 99% of the places they are kept. Suddenly letting them be free with the raccoons and shit is going to ruin the ecology.
You really have no comprehension of the issue here do you?
No. 75130
Prepare for my fucking blog post, lol.
The health benefits my boyfriend and I have both achieved from switching from a high meat "keto" diet to a vegan plant based (low in vegan 'junk' like oreos and etc) are unbelievable. In 6 months:
I went from whopping 225 pounds to a whopping but still far less huge 190 pounds and the pounds keep falling off with no exercise than the same mile walk in the morning I have been doing for years.
I eat 1200-1400 cal a day of fruits veggies potatoes beans and rice. Our grocery bill has gone way down as another cherry on top.
My blood pressure went from 150/90 to 120/80(which is the high end of normal I believe, but I still have ~70-80 pounds to lose yet.
My boyfriend also went vegan as his weightlifting had plateaued after his brotastic whey protein and steak with butter soaked broccoli diet was failing him, and his blood pressure was higher than mine at the time (forget the exact values.) He was diabetic (past tense WAS) with an A1C value of 11 fucking % after over a year on a very low carb high in meat and saturated fat diet, eating no bread, rice, potatoes, all the shit /r/keto swears causes diabetes. and we bought it. 6 months after going vegan? well, more like 5 months. Got blood test results back several weeks ago and his A1C value is now 5% which is under the diabetic range of 7% or higher.
His weight plummeted from 220 pounds to 190 while his weights in the gym have been increasing and his biceps, pecs and legs have gotten noticeably larger.
My lower back pain is gone as well, related video on that topic and I highly recommend this channel as well as all of nutritionfacts.org where most of the info comes from.
We went vegan overnight after looking up the real causes of water use in our home state California (surprise: animal agriculture), and then watching Forks Over Knives when looking up related videos on veganism (clips from Conspiracy, and so on.) I urge you all to please genuinely look into a vegan diet if not for animals you don't give a shit about, for your own health and longevity.
We eat very affordable simple foods, and the only supplement needed is b12 which we get in the form of sublingual tablets. Boyfriend encouraged his mom to try veganism and she has also dropped 15 pounds and reduced her lower back pain at age 66.
There's literally no good reason to not be vegan in a developed country except for complete and total apathy. If you want to kill yourselves with bacon and butter be my fucking guest. I'll be enjoying reversing heart disease and working toward a normal weight with my increasingly hot boyfriend.
No. 75131
>>75128Why should my taxes go to a fucking cow haven when the education system is so shitty its producing people who thinking this?
Personally I'd rather my tax dollars being used on things that are worthwhile such as healthcare for humans.
No. 75133
>>75130Good for you fatty. Ill eat my butter and be thin thanks.
There's no reason to be vegan when we have literally evolved to eat meat.
No. 75134
>>75118Your shitty scenario would only happen if the whole world population turned vegetarian / vegan in a single night, you know it won't happen.
The meat industry will die very slowly, we will breed less and less animals, meat created in lab will become the norm. When the time will come to free the animal, I believe there will be a lot less than 1 billion cow / pig / chicken, whatever.
No. 75138
>>75134'Time to free the pigs'
As if they were enslaved like the Africans or Jews lel
No. 75140
>>75129So we should just continue farming and eating meat because it's convenient? Genius.
If you gave a shit about the earth maybe you should be more concerned about the forests we're destroying to facilitate your precious farming.
No. 75146
>>75142I just pulled the cow sanctuary idea out of my ass, but I think this anon
>>75134 is more in the truth. When we will have to replace those animals, the production and mass breeding will probably be a lot slower.
No. 75150
>>75139You realize we would never have achieved the brain mass of a modern human if our ancestors didnt eat meat?
If we were meant to be herbivores we'd have a fermenting chamber in our stomachs.
No. 75155
>>75152being fat is seriously the fucking worst thing ever. I can't wait to look and feel normal.
>>75153I felt like adding a story and some proof of tangible health benefits of a vegan diet was a good enough discussion to add but I guess we can start talking about how vegans are all dumbasses who want to hug cows if you like lol
No. 75156
File: 1456828047274.jpg (16.7 KB, 275x263, image.jpg)
>>75151Yeah I'm the ignorant one.
I'm the anon who slaughters and grows their own food. Try harder next time.
No. 75158
>>75150Did you read what I just said? Did I said that our ancestor should have not eaten meat? No I didn't.
And this idea is debatable, many people say it's eating cooked food who allowed us to grow our brains.
Even if meat was a important part of our evolutional grow, you are not a prehistoric man, you are a fully developped human and you can be very smart and very healthy not eating any.
No. 75161
>>75155You think anyone gives a damn how good looking you think you are now?
Anyone who stopped shoveling shit into their face constantly would lose weight and look better. You didn't achieve anything, you just stopped being disgusting.
No. 75162
>>75158Many say its meat so how is your starch theory any more valid than mine?
Other than it meeting your confirmation bias, that is.
No. 75164
>>75159So you thought I didn't know where my food comes from an my opinion isn't count.
Now that you know I know exactly where it comes from my opinion doesn't count?
What the fuck anon?
No. 75165
>>75161never claimed to be good looking, on my way to a normal weight is all. I think the blood pressure and diabetes results speak for themselves even independent of weight loss.
>>75162Check out talks by Dr. McDougall/The Starch Solution on youtube/skim through them. Nearly all early human civilizations thrived on largely plant and starch based diets.
No. 75166
>>75162I don't care if eating meat is the reason why we grew this way, I'm not gonna rewrite history, I'm talking about the present, and the present only.
Nowaday you can choose not to eat meat, you can choose not to consume dairy, you don't have to.
No. 75171
File: 1456828872846.png (403 KB, 909x352, teeth.png)
>>75133>There's no reason to be vegan when we have literally evolved to eat meat.LOL
No. 75172
>>75171teeth aside, since gorillas also are herbivorous and have large pointy teeth, how the fuck can people claim humans were evolved to eat meat when without the assistance of tools you cannot hunt and kill any animal except maybe a very tiny bird? And why is the sight of a freshly killed animal not delicious looking to most people?
Related video, it's a guy trying his best to eat a roadkill rabbit.
No. 75183
>>75179>>75172>>75171Dumb vegans ignore the fact our difestive system is made to digest meat.
Dumb vegans like to speak about evolution but they know shit about it.
People don't need claws and huge teeth, because we can use tools, and prepare food unlike of mindless animals. By your logic you must not use multivitamins to compensate lack of nutrients, because it's not natural and people meant to gain everything fron food.
I welcome every single vegan shit to come to my grandma in siberia, and have a little "natural" life. We will see how lonf you will last without eating properly in extreeme conditions.
No. 75185
>>75182There's a risk of contracting it from undercooked meat.
>>75183We don't need meat, hence we choose not to eat it. Lol like nobody would choose to stay with your nasty stone age grandmother.
No. 75187
I don't really care if animals are killed for food or not, it's the meat production that gets me. In my country, cows have been bred so that they will make 3 times more milk, but their legs and joints haven't kept up with the alternation, so the cows have joint pains. They are also kept in cow houses with little to no stimulus. Pigs are also kept in tiny cages with dirt all over the place, and they use electric whips to make them move and they are often kicked and beaten out of frustration. Luckily the animal keeping laws have gotten a little bit better, but it's still enough. I would personally eat hunted meat or eat eggs from a small family farm chicken, but it upsets my stomach because I haven't eaten those things in a while.
>>74991I was in a really unhealthy relationship for four years, and this happened to me all the time. He even hid meat in some of my food, and when I ate it, he would start mocking me and laughing at me. He also tried to force feed me chicken nuggets.
No. 75189
>>74872So what? To a lot of people that's enough. Not everyone is against animal death.
Makes me think vegans never grew up on a farm. I did and I know for a fact turkey's are walking gobbling vegetables. They're the one animal I never feel bad eating. Pigs on the other hand are extremely intelligent and I side with vegeterians on this one.
It's all about perspective.
No. 75193
File: 1456839991614.jpg (567.92 KB, 1024x1280, 5tt5t5.jpg)
>>75172Roadkill isn't fresh, so that would make him a scavenger. Good thing he has the omnivore teeth and digestive acids to deal with it!
As much as I am a lover of rare meat and hunting, I do however find myself agreeing with you. We do not have the bodies and to some extent teeth needed to digest large quantities of meat.
I agree that we eat WAY too much meat. It's INSANE how much meat western people consume, and even when they get gout,heart disease, a cancer epidemic and acid reflux they don't stop. Meat should be eaten in a SMALL quantity once every few weeks tops in my opinion. Perhaps even once a month.
It's the reason why, when you look at stats for heart disease and cancer japan and asia is so low. Obesity and other factors, sure, but it's also thought to be their diet.Japanese people in particular (weaboo time) eat huge amounts of fruit and veg, with small amounts of meat that tend to be fish. I guess this is why they find the idea of veganism so alien, since they eat so little meat anyway. Why bother excluding eggs, dairy and honey from everything you eat too?
I know people who eat meat every day and they look like and smell like utter shit. It's just not healthy. I come from a country where meat is commonly eaten every day, and everyone seems to age like shit. Stomach cancer, gout and kidney stones are common illnesses. High cholesterol, blood pressure and heart issues also reign supreme. This is just something I personally observed, and it scared me into eating very little meat.
But like with everything, it's all about moderation and what you personally value. I for example value good quality, sustainably raised cow and horse meat. I also am a fish lover in a landlocked country. It's very expensive to get sustainably raised, cruelty "free" meat, but it also tastes better.
No. 75200
>>75189In Finland organic milk, for example, only means that the calf stays with it's mom for a couple of days more, and the cow eats a little bit better food. Otherwise it's just the same: they don't get out, don't get any stimulus, they live in a dark box of dirt and smell and have not much space to move. I wouldn't pay half as much for this kind of milk, but whatever floats anybody's boat.
I grew up on a farm, although we gave up having animals when I was about 10. We used to have a few cows and horses and chickens, but as they died, we decided not to have new ones. There is a big cow farm half a kilometer away from us, and we once had a visit inside the cow house, and it was fucking awful. It smelled and was dark and the cows never get outside. There is also a huge pig farm one kilometer from us, and they just opened 5 years ago. It smells like absolute shit and is dirty as hell, and in the beginning you could hear the pigs screaming. They never get out, either. There is also a fur farm 5 kilometers from us, I have never visited it and I just hope it burns down with the poor animals in it, so they won't get any more of them. Fur farms here are vile.
No. 75206
>>75195Lol how am I uneducated? Because I wrote turkeys incorrectly? I speak 4 languages and english is my 3rd, but ok. Are we comparing e-peens now? Is that the best argument you have? Name calling and mud slinging?
Your claim of desensitisation is also pure name calling, which might cut it on tumblr but not here. How exactly am I desensitised? Because I kept livestock? I guess that makes every farmer desensitised. Good thing we have some studies and science supporting this great hypothesis! This will revolutionise forensic psychology! Oh wait…It's just some bullshit you pulled out of your vegan supplement encrusted anus.
>>75205Perhaps it depends on the breed of turkey. The turkeys we had weren't the sort you have in the US, they were white and pink. Anemic looking birds. I spent so much time taking care of those ungrateful little shits, only to have them claw at me.
No. 75227
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>>75171Are you fucking serious…
No. 75229
File: 1456846901311.jpeg (11.45 KB, 225x225, pythagoras.jpeg)
>>74991that's fucked up.
i truly think that carnivores take it so personally because their diet prevents them from thinking clearly. when eating sadness and suffering every day, it follows that perhaps this impulse to lash out at others for not subjecting themselves to the same suffering is, well, inevitable
when i was young my parents force fed me meat. and still my family, my fiancee's family as well are very strange about veganism. as much as one can complain about vegans and peta people being very militant and maybe even annoying, look at the opposition. assuming you are in usa, veganism is a small movement in comparison to the industrial and political conglomerates making money off death; a whole country of fat and unhappy carnivores, disgruntled to see others try and live longer, better lives along with fellow earth creatures
it stems from insecurity. if it were not veganism i assume he would be trying to control something else about you. it will only escalate until you tell him to fuck off about it. nip it in the bud or get out of there before it escalates to other things. don't feel guilty, you sound sweet anon
No. 75231
>>75228You sound like you're just spewing something someone else told you. B12 and D are not exclusive to animal products so idk where you got that from.
If you had bothered to check, there's more B12 in tofu than non-vegan products.
No. 75241
>>75239No, its no "butmuhbacon" its the annoyance of having to listen to spoiled middleclass city kids go on about morals, its fine that your shocked that meat comes from an animal, you grew up in a grocery store. Us that growed up in the country surrounded by farms knew this from an early age so its not a shock to us that an actual animal has to die for us to eat.
Lion king for da lulz
No. 75251
>>75245Dont use Murica as an example of what a normal omnivorous diet is. Thats like me using Fitveganginger as an example of what Vegans eat.
Countries like France, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, China, Japan, Korea are doing just fine, except for the american shit products that are on the rise.
No. 75257
>>75255Who in this thread said that they felt better than everyone else because of their vegan diet?
We are just sharing all the good thing that come with a plant based lifestyle.
No. 75258
>>75228You do know b12 only naturally occurs in bacteria, right? It is deficient because modern agricultural practices and food preparation techniques prevent any of the nutrient that may be in the soil from getting on your food. Essentially, meat eaters are taking a secondhand supplement through the digestive system of their meat animals, as their feed is enhanced with b12 similarly to fortified cereals rich in b12 or plant based milks. You can get 100% of your rda for b12 from two cups of cashew milk a day but supplements are a safer bet as it takes years for b12 stores to deplete and by then any neurological damage is done. I guarantee my b12 levels are higher that those of my omnivore friends because it is something I monitor my intake of while they just assume they are fine with their standard American diet, which is not always the case.
As far as vitamin D, sunlight, or fortified milks/foods, same way omnivores obtain vitamin D (what, you thought dairy milk bought at the store naturally contained vitamin D? Lol)
Also where do you get your fiber? On a "healthy" omnivore diet that includes vegetables I still had to take fiber supplements to shit more than once every three days.
No. 75260
>>75254Not because of the french diet.
Obesity is on the rise only where these shit products from america are, if you look at the statistics from the countryside where Burgerking and shitty processed food isnt the norm, people are fine and dandy, this includes the other countries i mentioned.
No. 75262
>>75258Thanks for typing it, It's such a boring thing to explain time after time.
Yes, most food is supplemented, including meat and dairy.
No. 75274
>>75268They simply may have had a deficiency as it can take up to 20 years for b12 stores to deplete. As far as how my ancestors obtained it, not sure, they could have obtained it secondhand through bacteria ingested by animals, or obtained it through soil on unwashed plants. Can't be arsed to check on my phone.
Point is modern b12 is only found through fortified foods and the source of b12 is bacterial. Whether you eat meat or not you aren't getting b12 in a "natural" way.
No. 75279
>>75267Again, its not "muhbacon!"
Most meat eaters know where our food is from, i know i do.
>> Its only because of convenience!No, some people are afraid of ending up sick and with deficiencies.
>> Meat eaters are so angry!!Your the only angry one here.
No. 75286
>>75271I am psychic. Hello, meat-eater!
>>75279I've been vegan over a decade and I have absolutely no problems. Also see my link above.
No. 75287
>>75274Just because you "think" or "feel" something doesnt make it fact. You even admit to not even knowing it, and that you cant be bothered to research it, so just dont argue about something that you know nothing about.
They got it from animals, which they ate.
No. 75293
>>75284https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/
>>Sources of Vitamin D.FoodVery few foods in nature contain vitamin D. The flesh of fatty fish (such as salmon, tuna, and mackerel) and fish liver oils are among the best sources [1,11]. Small amounts of vitamin D are found in beef liver, cheese, and egg yolks. Vitamin D in these foods is primarily in the form of vitamin D3 and its metabolite 25(OH)D3 [12]. Some mushrooms provide vitamin D2 in variable amounts [13,14]. Mushrooms with enhanced levels of vitamin D2 from being exposed to ultraviolet light under controlled conditions are also available.
>>and fish liver oils are among the best sourcesthere you go, you could also google fish liver vitamin D
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/628/2
>>Vitamin D. 21803 IU, %DV: 5451% No. 75295
>>75293Thanks for correction, was on phone and first few sources showed nothing about vitamin D.
If you're eating liver regularly enough to obtain most of your vitamin D from it, are you not worried about vitamin A poisoning?
No. 75299
>>75298Did you miss where there are multiple methods in which b12 was obtained? And how that has no bearing on how b12 is obtained today (all supplementation)?
Also to the liver person sorry about saying oil based, I just meant animal liver sources of vitamin A. Quoting two posts is a bitch on this tiny screen.
No. 75303
>>75297The first "evidence" you use it talking about livers from VERY large animals that people dont normally eat the livers of like huskies, polar bears and walruses. A quote from the source.
>>Very high doses of vitamin A have the potential to be toxic and can cause hypervitaminosis A, a dangerous disorder. There have been several anecdotal reports and a few scientific studies of vitamin A poisoning due to the consumption of the livers of polar bears, walruses, bearded seals, moose, and huskies. The livers of these animals can contain very high levels of vitamin A.The Inuit will not eat the liver of polar bears or bearded seals. It has been estimated that consumption of 500 grams of polar bear liver would result in a toxic dose for a human.I was talking about Fish, beef and pig liver. You know livers differ from different animals right? They even state it was anecdotal evidence.
So the second source… You are trying to prove that natural vitamin A is dangerous by using a page talking about vitamin a in supplements as proof? i was talking about liver, not pills.
No. 75310
>>75303http://www.livestrong.com/article/491280-the-effects-of-eating-liver/Yes it's live strong only relevant for this quote
"A potentially harmful effect of eating liver is vitamin A toxicity. Liver is very high in vitamin A; 3 ounces of cooked beef liver provides 444 percent of the DV for this vitamin. According to Professor Peter Aggett of the U.K.’s Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition, eating too much liver can interfere with your bone density and contribute to fractures because of its high vitamin A content."
Also the mayo clinic was about retinol, which is the animal form of vitamin A. Plant based sources of vitamin A are not retinol.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A No. 75318
>>75310the livestrong link you provided only came with "it may" "it could" "there is a risk" there was no study linked to their claims, only claims. I dont just belive things just because someone said so.
And yes they were, but it is not the same when it is a concentrated extracted version inside a pill, as it is in real food anon. All vitamins in pill form can be dangerous.
No. 75319
>>75308Actually meat eater care more about their bacon than about the following things ;
the environment, the animals, poors people, their health, global warming, sustainability of their lifestyle.
Should we kill them or educate them?
Also the trolololol sex joke is cringy as hell.
No. 75322
>>75319How did you reply to me? By using a phone/laptop/pc a poor child had to die for?
Did you know that we humans HAVE to eat cows so their burps are toxic for our environment?
No. 75324
>>75322>Did you know that we humans HAVE to eat cows so their burps are toxic for our environment?What the fuck?
So you eat cow to save the planet, great.
Well I choose to not eat them in hope that we will stop mass breeding them ; less cow = less burps.
Your logic is so weird.
No. 75326
>>75235hello! your post was almost coherent. i am very proud. :D
>>75322the sex joke/the killing all vegans thing/the poor children have to die for your laptop is rather manipulative and unempathetic. you sound like a psycho.
No. 75327
>>75325Nah its actually their burps and farts but the main culprit are their farts.
>>75324You want to save the planet yet you are still using a pc/laptop/phone. Why cant you give that up?
>>75326awwww how cute, vegans really lie to themselves so they can stay motivated.
No. 75332
>>75327because having a computer is a necessity in most work field.
And because it's a comfort that I allow myself because I know that I do A LOT for the environment.
Now it's your turn, what do you do for the planet? Oh yeah you tell people who do something good that they are not good enough and that they are pretentious.
No. 75348
>>75338Do I pretend I care about the world like vegtards are?
>>75332I dont have money for a plane ticket and I try to keep my water and gas bills as low as possible. Doing this shit is much better than not eating a plate of steak. Anyways, like I already said I dont do this because I care about the world. Anyways, turkey is ready.
No. 75351
File: 1456859538627.jpg (122.01 KB, 980x472, beef.jpg)
>>75348>Doing this shit is much better than not eating a plate of steakThat is not true at all. It would even be better for the environment to be vegan while driving a fucking 4x4.
The meat industry is the n1 factor in water consumption and gaz emission.
No. 75354
>>75348you at least pretended to experience empathy for others, yet your other posts were creepy enough that
>>75322 did not ring quite true
No. 75375
>>75351>this is what vegans actually believe"The largest source of greenhouse gas emissions from human activities in the United States is from burning fossil fuels for electricity, heat, and transportation."
Source:
http://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/sources.htmlThe truth is, I dont care that you care more about animals than humans. I dont care that you eat vegan. What bothers me is that vegans do not care about real issues and think that the meat industry is the ~number one reason~ why the planet is destroyed. Veganism =/= saving the planet. Eat what you want to eat but do not think you are doing something good. It's a choice you made because you feel sorry for those animals, nothing more.
>>75360My grandmother is not siberian and she is not dead. Humans in general do not commit cannibalism (anymore). That turkey was so fucking good btw.
>>75362You can even be allergic to grass.
No. 75377
>>75375nice nitpicking check that ;
http://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/global.htmlNumber one cause is carbon dioxyde
> CO2 can also be emitted from direct human-induced impacts on forestry and other land use, such as through deforestation, land clearing for agriculture, and degradation of soilsnumber two is Methane
>Agricultural activities, waste management, energy use, and biomass burning all contribute to CH4 emissions.number three is Nitrous oxide
> Agricultural activities, such as fertilizer use, are the primary source of N2O emissions. Biomass burning also generates N2O.The three main greenhouse gases emitted by human activities can all be linked to agricultural activities.
No. 75378
>>75375>What bothers me is that vegans do not care about real issuesAren't you the anon, who didn't care about the world? Then why do you care what vegans care or don't care about? Also, caring about one thing doesn't mean that one can't care about other things too. That would be like saying that you enjoy eating turkey, so you clearly don't like chicken. How does turkey taste like, btw? Is it like chicken? We don't have turkey in my country.
Being a vegan, or even avoiding mass produced meat does help environment, and it doesn't matter if it helps a little or a lot. Realizing that animals have feelings and we shouldn't have them in "meat factories" is also helping nature, since, you know, animals are a part of nature. Hunting is fine and dandy, though, and getting things from ethical farms.
You and the other meat anon sound salty af. Did a tofu pee in your cereal or something?
No. 75390
File: 1456866737564.jpg (16.81 KB, 325x251, mysides.jpg)
>>75375At this point, this guy is a troll.
I mean, what kind of idiotic response is "You can be allergic to grass"
Okay, you moron, but people don't really eat gross. Humans do not need to eat beef. There are a huge majority that don't because our stomachs cannot process it properly. Why do you think it takes so damn long to break down?
No. 75392
File: 1456866979533.jpg (175.91 KB, 564x445, pumpkin-pie-201139.jpg)
Can we actually have vegans and vegetarians here discuss lifestyle and share recipes? I'd like that.
First vegan thing I ever ate was 4 years ago. Vegan pumpkin pie at a farmer's market and it was amazing.
No. 75398
>>75394Are you sure?
It's just…your mother caught a virus from raw meat
No. 75399
>>75398Are you 12? Because you're arguing on the level of a 12 year old.
This isn't PULL or tumblr. Please put forward some actual arguments.
No. 75401
>>75230>you can't see animals are more than an objectAnd how did you come to that conclusion?
You genuinely believe all farmers are basically mildly psychopathic? I'm dying from laughter here. I hope you never have to live in the real world. I had to eat meat to live, we would starve otherwise. You can only get so many calories from bullshit potatoes and freezing fruits. You'd know that if you hadn't spent your cushy condescending life sitting on your obese cunt and doing nothing.
I mean do you actually do anything for animals? Do you volunteer at a shelter? Have you saved a cow or a dog? Do you support people who do? Or are you another one of those slacktivist whiners?
You're intellectually dishonest and at this point you disgust me with your lack of challenging arguments and coherence. I can only hope that one day you'll become a more concious human being. For now you're about as clever as the turkeys you battle (namecall) for.
No. 75402
>>75398Ooh cut me deep anon. Wow ouch.
Ebola is a hemorrhagic fever, it spreads via bleeding. Unfortunately for you, nobody eats raw monkeys or whatever, and nobody is going to eat an animal that is sick.
No. 75403
File: 1456868025950.jpg (54.58 KB, 578x422, 9aefbf010edcae7ef383b1ff1ae02a…)
>>75400You want me to prove that that anon's mother didn't catch a virus from raw meat?…
Vegans, not even once.
No. 75409
>>75405How am I going to catch Ebola?
It doesn't live in deer, bovines, rabbits or poultry. And its not in Australia. And I don't hunt and eat sick animals.
Weak b8 anon.
No. 75412
>>75401honestly buying vegan products and not buying animal products in the end results in more direct action for animals than any of the "what do you really do" actions. Money talks. If demand for vegan products is increasing while demand for meat and dairy is going down as it seems to be by the increased amount of vegan friendly shit at the store, fewer animals will be bred to be slaughtered/milked, and ultimately fewer animals killed.
Consumer boycotts on a large scale have impact and voting with your wallet does demand change. Check out how Hellman's mayonnaise after being threatened by the eggless Just Mayo Brand (after the egg lobby tried to smear it and sue them for the name) is now coming out with their own egg-free mayo. Check out Ben and Jerry's coming out with 4 vegan friendly flavors. The fact that I can find garden meatless options at my local shithole grocery store at an affordable price.
The market is changing and more and more products will cater to vegans. We just keep buying what we buy long term so it isn't another market fad like low carb or low fat.
No. 75419
File: 1456868655247.jpg (29.2 KB, 236x354, image.jpg)
>>75392that sounds delicious anon! i am making strawberry muffins tonight. will share results
No. 75421
>>75417You're a hangry dumbass with no argument so you're trying to act like eating meat is some huge moral issue.
The day cows are equal to humans is the day ill stop hunting.
No. 75428
>>75426please post that patty recipe, sounds awesome.
I use unsweetened cashew milk for all my savory recipes, and vanilla for my smoothies. Has the richest taste imo
No. 75430
>>75425Fuck off you obese whorecow.
None of you know what it's like to live meat-free in an organic commune.
Come back to me the moment you grow up.
No. 75435
>>75430Sounds like everyone would reek of patchouli and BO. Rampant herpes and genital warts, dirty feet touching everything and nobody is educated or contributes to society in any way.
Enjoy your smelly commune, don't let the pubic lice get you down.
No. 75438
>>75437Steak tartare?
Its pretty good. Salmon sashimi is amazing too. Its just gotta be high quality meat.
No. 75439
>>75398Raw meat can be eaten.
Theres a wholesub-culture dedicated to it and suprise, their not sick or dead. Not saying its super healthy(NOT because its raw, but because we have recently evolved to eating it cooked), but humans eat what they can, because we are omnivores. My opinion is you need both if you want optimal health.
No. 75458
>>75452true.
Anyway what are you all having for dinner tonight? I'm being lazy and doing some blts with some coconut bacon I already made yesterday, and some oven baked french fries on the side.
No. 75642
>>74754Vegans and vegetarians get a lot more shit than they deserve. I know a lot who keep their mouth shut about it unless asked and they don't judge people who do eat meat. However when someone finds out they're vegan/vegetarian they always get to hear nasty remarks.
People eat way too much meat nowadays and it's causing a big strain on our planet.
Also it's ridiculous to say stuff like "oh so you're vegan but you still use a car? that's bad too!!!"
I mean at least they get one part right, it's like having a little crack in your phone and smashing it completely…
No. 75779
>>75642I stopped eating out with acquaintances due this.They always make loud obnoxious remarks about it when waiter take our orders. Only my parents seem to respect my choice and keep quiet about it.
A friend of mine even gave me worm chili salt without telling me until I ate it.
Why
No. 75788
>>74814Are you seriously trying to imply that a little boy consuming a piece of chicken he's neither killed nor prepared, is unaware of where it's come from, chicken that's come from an animal that spent the entirety of it's miserable life locked in a dark shed trampling in its own ammonia and being pecked at by its kin on account of overcrowding, only to be plucked up, painfully slaughtered, ground up into goo, reformed with 40% water and gristle and then sprayed with preservatives is somehow anything like natural survival predation.
I try not to say shit like the majority of meat-eaters being idiots, but you're making it really difficult here Anon…
No. 75792
>>75642Yeah whenever I need to mention my dietary preference because I'm being offered something or I'm eating out there's always ONE dickhole who feels the need to make a big deal out of it and brashly announce how "they like animals and have a dog back home and shit but just love bacon toooooooo much lol" and how they're going to eat a big burger tonight
wink wink ;^).
Why do so many people take a person's personal dietary choice as some kind of attack on them as a person? It's like they're terrified I'm going to rip their meat from their hands.
No. 75907
>>75795I cannot believe in 2016 people are still wearing real fur.It really sickens me.
I agree, if it were a dog caught in the trap, the people would rally, but they don't give a shit about foxes or minks… it's sickening.
No. 75919
>>75907But what about if you live in a country where foxes and rabbits are vermin and endanger native species?
How should we control them?
No. 75923
File: 1456957738020.jpg (432.81 KB, 1024x768, 3284178183_af0baaaf73_b.jpg)
>>75907Given the chance those animals you care so much about would eat you without hesitation, but we won the evolution race and can eat what ever we want and however we want.
Refuse to eat meat all you want, but don't you jump on other people talking about morals and cruelty to animals.
No. 75998
File: 1456974771551.jpg (66.88 KB, 466x300, 388-post.jpg)
>>75944No, you are not, stop lying it's cringy
No. 76003
>>75999Good thing we're humans capable of rationality that chimps aren't, huh?
>>75998What's cringy? My claim to be an anthropology major? I could give a fuck if you believe me, but you have yet to provide any evidence disproving mine. Humans are insectivores and frugivores by nature. We can but are not designed to eat meat. Just like my dog is a true omnivore by nature, but a vegan. And my snake is a true carnivore. Fuck off, because you have 0 idea of what you're talking about.
No. 76004
>>75871Not really.
Give Japan for example, the consumption of meat all across the nation was widely banned given that animals such as pigs, cattle, chicken etc., were considered unclean. The nobility that did by chance consume meat were deemed unclean and this banned from any religious/political observances for the next 3 days lest their go in and stink up the place.
Japanese survived on a diet of fruit, vegetables, rice and fish for thousands of years, a near vegan diet, and wow what do you know, the Japanese are particularly well known for typically having clear skin, beautifully thick, strong, silky hair, a low body weight and ridiculously high life expectancy - the highest in all the world actually.
Meat in Japan is a very relatively new thing, but the Japanese are very much proof that humans can quite successfully survive on a diet devoid of meat.
No. 76011
File: 1456977338010.jpeg (32.33 KB, 236x357, image.jpeg)
I've been a vegetarian for 3 years, but eventually I'd like to become fully vegan. But I'd have to learn how to actually cook food for that. Vegan recipes tend to be very weird, and have a lot of hard to get ingredients. I don't eat meat mainly for the reason that an animal is killed in order to get meat. I think killing animals is cruel. I don't want to support the intentional killing animals by eating or buying anything that resulted in the slaughter of an animal. I understand most people don't care about that though.
No. 76022
>>75377How much of that agriculture is used for animal feed?
Livestock currently consume the majority of the crops produced in the world.
(Source if you're wondering:"10 ways vegetarianism can help save the planet" Vidal, John)
No. 76027
>>76012Meat-eaters are like /robots/ in this respect.
They can't just respectfully view a thread from a distance and make a conscious appeal to leave the participants in peace, they feel they need to crash in here and start screaming about how delicious their greasy, fatty, salt-laden bacon is and how we're all stupid for not wanting to consume the flesh of thinking, feeling, sentient beings who overwhelmingly are raised and slaughtered in a manner we would consider unthinkably barbaric when applied to humans.
And people say vegans and vegetarians are obnoxious lol
No. 76028
>>76011hey I know vegans shit on vegetarians a lot but I think it's a great stepping stone.
Depends on what you like to eat but when I went vegan overnight I ate a bunch of black beans and rice with whatever else I had on hand, usually frozen corn heated up in the microwave, or salsa, or whatever herbs/spices sounded good.
Also a TON of potatoes. Potatoes have tons of vitamins and nutrients and are hearty and filling. I know what you mean about the weird ingredients and I think nutritional yeast tastes like shit anyway lol. Just stick to rice, beans, starchy filling stuff, fruits and veg and simple recipes and you will be okay.
Easiest dairy/egg swaps for me were switching from dairy milk to cashew milk (closest flavor imo but not available everywhere, using applesauce in baking recipes in place of eggs (doesn't work for everything but made for some great little cakes) and swapping butter for earth balance or I can't believe it's not butter. Just Mayo is an eggless mayonnaise brand that I shit you not, tastes IDENTICAL to the real deal, and usually it's the same price or cheaper than regular mayo, I've also found it at walmart.
Good luck making the switch even if it's gradual and don't let vegans put you off if you get shit for eating cheese. You're doing better than omnivores already.
No. 76030
>>75238lol wut, I only eat tofu like once every 2 weeks.
Is that your image of vegetarians and vegan, people sitting around stuffing their face with soy all day and little else?
Are you implying that soy beans are only able to be grown within one country?
I can't make sense of this post.
No. 76032
>>76028It makes me sad that some vegans do shit on vegetarians.
I mean it's not like we aren't trying.
No. 76036
>>76028You mean you can make normal food when you're vegan? ? I've tried now and then to cook, I got vegan baking down pat (I've tricked my family many times with vegan wacky cake), and I've only done vegan cosmetics/clothes/what have you since I became a vegetarian. I'm to the point where my breakfast is almost always vegan (I gave up on milk when I was 15- plant milks are the best). It's making vegan food for dinner that I have a hard time with. If I wanted to go fully vegan, my family would probably explode. My mom thought I'd been talkin to the debil when I told her I wasn't eating meat anymore. My parents took to the idea of me being vegetarian abnormally unwell.
At first I insisted on making my own food, but my mom eventually started making me a vegetarian version of own dinner, then got sick of that, and now a lot of times will just make a meatless dinner. That doesn't sound too bad, but if I wanted to go vegan, I would definitely be making my own food at that point. My mom would be pissy that I was in the kitchen making a separate dinner when she was making dinner too. To keep her happy I'd have to start making dinner for everyone, which wouldn't go over well in a family who hates vegan food to begin with. My mother ascribes to many strange conspiracies (one being that the government controls the weather) and I'm sure she thinks vegans have something to do with the New World Order or the Freemasons or some crap.My sister would be down my throat about being a vegan and shriveling up into nothing. My brother in law would have a whole new set of "muh bacon butgodputaminalsonearthtoeat" jokes. My family had a hard enough time accepting me just giving up meat. Lord have mercy if I go vegan. (Ironically enough, my devout Christian grandma was the happiest out of my family when I switched. She said she grew up practically vegetarian because they couldn't afford meat often.)
Sorry, this kinda became a rant.
No. 76044
>>76036what are you making for vegetarian dinner that can't cut out cheese, eggs, butter, or milk, or replace them with vegan alternatives?
I do vegan mushroom burgers a lot, pasta dishes are great and filling, burritos and tacos with refried beans and salsa, etc. Chili is a great vegan dinner that's hearty and satisfying and nobody, not even omnivores notice or care that it's vegan. I always thought chili with cheese was nasty even in my omni days haha.
A good way to make "disguise" vegan foods is make more thai or indian stuff, simple potato curry you can even use the premade curry powders and tomato paste, whatever. Then subbing the dairy milk for canned coconut milk doesn't look overtly vegan, it just looks like part of the regular recipe, if you're really worried about bothering your crazy family.
No. 76055
>>76011Hey anon, what do you find weird about vegan recipes? Is it vegan "cheese" with nutritional yeast? You might want to try
http://minimalistbaker.com/and
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEjkioV3LO_OIUaSWRxFZ3A>>75238soy is one of the cheapest and most easily grown foods. So yeah, I do think that. Not like we'd have to ship it though, as soy is grown almost everywhere. Soy is most likely in a lot of food you eat and don't know it.
>>76036I used to make my own dinner when I lived with my grandparents. I'd make it either before I went to work and stick in the fridge to heat up later, or after work when my grandparents had already eaten. Make large batches of food and put them in the fridge for dinner and lunch later in the week. Or pasta, veggie burgers, fries, stir-fry,frozen pizza, canned soups, ramen, etc only take a few minutes to make. Sorry that your family shits on you, mine does that to me constantly.
No. 76071
File: 1457001746688.jpg (65.43 KB, 676x432, meatz.jpg)
>>76003No we are omnivores. Its not a "look" or "design" its a fucking definition, didnt your "degree" teach you that? Or did you snooze your "education" away? and biology doesnt agree with you, even these animals you claim are "frugivores" hunt and eat meat.
No. 76086
>>76003>Humans are insectivores and frugivores by nature. We can but are not designed to eat meat.*were
The agricultral revolution happened a long ass time ago and even before that a lot of humans followed a roughly paleo diet, no?
No. 76170
>>76064IIRC the worlds oldest dog lived healthily on a vegan diet. Dogs are omnivorous and can thrive if their nutritional needs are met with plant matter. Cats are carnivores and need taurine found in meat - some vegan cat foods contain synthetic taurine but I'm not willing to gamble long term health effects with my own cat and simply feed her meat. It's the only non vegan thing I buy, since as her caretaker who has owned her long before going vegan, switching her to a diet that could harm her seems cruel to me.
Tl;dr dogs can be vegans, cats can't be without taking serious risks
No. 76176
>>76170you're going to need to back that up with sources
>dogs can be vegansjust because it can subsist itself on such a diet, does not mean it should
look at its fucking carnassials
No. 76228
File: 1457031185569.jpg (53.5 KB, 500x340, large.jpg)
>>76064I did a lot of research before feeding my dog a vegan diet. She meets all her nutrient requirements and I assure you she doesn't feel oppressed. Purina has been linked to diabetes in dogs. Cheap dog food is often made with euthanized cats and dogs, because it's cheap. My dog eat the highest quality food available. I'm not feeding her salads and tofu (well maybe as scraps).
Cats are another story. I know vegan diets are often to acidic for cats and it's hard to get cats to eat them. But I don't have a cat and probably won't adopt one.
>>76071You sure love quotations. Someone "snoozed" through "grammar" lessons. And you clearly don't know what an omnivore is. By your definition cows and horses and chickens are omnivores. Bears don't get heart disease from eating meat like humans do. You put a wolf pup with a baby bunny and an apple, it'll eat both. You put a toddler with a bunny and an apple, it's going to eat the apple. Go eat some raw chicken right now like the omnivore you think you are. Wolves don't worry about salmonella, so neither should you.
>>76076So it's rational to go kill and eat babies when the mood strikes? We're capable of morality that other animals are not. Why keep using chimps? Why not orangutans which are known for being gentle apes.
>>76086no we rarely ate meat. By the way the "paleo" diet is closer to a neolithic diet. Cooking food is responsible for our large brains, not meat.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-fire-makes-us-human-72989884/?no-isthttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3189454/The-secret-man-s-intelligence-POTATOES-Humans-evolved-large-brains-ancestors-ate-starchy-carbohydrates.html No. 76249
>>76175No. I lost my period as a vegetarian, but I was 82lbs and on a lot of heroin. The mercury is fish actually effects brain development in fetuses. Not to mention subjecting children to childhood obesity, heart disease, and diabetes is more cruel than feeding them vegan. I've been vegetarian since I was 8 and vegan for three years. I have regular, light, not painful periods. My health is great for someone who smokes and drinks as much as I do. Also video related is more cruel. If you can't see that, well I don't know.
also see
>>75795 No. 76264
>>76230you do know there are options other than purina and dog chow
like raw feeding
or is it too Barbaric that an animal would eat another animal
No. 76280
>>76264I have a snake I adopted. She eats rats and rabbits. Fortunately I know the breeder of the feeders myself. I even adopted one of his feeder rats. I would never buy feeders from PetsMart or whatever. I own a tarantula that I inherited from a friend who couldn't keep her. She eats roaches that I breed myself. They have to eat meat, my dog however can lead a healthy, happy life without meat. Because dogs are true omnivores.
>>76266Yeah, I'm not fit and I'm Mexican, but sure. But whatever keep thinking you sound clever.
No. 76300
>>75179>That plus the only way we can eat meat is cookedAre you daft? People eat raw meat all the fucking time.
>what is tartare >what is sushi/sashimi>what is carpaccio >what is raw egg>what is raw liverAll of these foods have been consumed raw for centuries. What makes them dangerous and require cooking is the pathogens and bacteria found on them, but that is a product of industrialized butchering and farming. Not because we lack the ability to digest raw tissue.
Ebola was spread, again, because people ate contaminated COOKED bushmeat and came into close contact with other contaminated people because sanitation over there is not regarded.
No. 76308
>>76176I never said I
would feed a dog a vegan diet, just that it's possible, as dogs are omnivorous animals while cats are carnivorous animals. I would also never own a dog, and once my cat passes away, I will only get companion animals that are herbivores such as rats or guinea pigs.
The name of the dog who lived to 24 (not the oldest living dog anymore as the record has been beaten) was Bramble, who lived eating a vegetarian/vegan diet. Bramble is mentioned at the top of the wikipedia list of oldest living dogs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_dogs No. 76315
>>76228I love the fact that vegans cant have a rational debate. When you strike a "feels"-nerve they just stop having a logical debate and go straight to "buuh its wrong!!" no, thats your opinion, its not a fact so stop fucking talking like it is.
You do not have a degree, your just a naive teenager who listened to too many stupid vegan videos on youtube because thats all your arguements consist of, spewing shit other people say, here is a video example of what you probably watch on a daily basis to feed your delusions, its just a mix of some decent points mixed with psuedo-science and feelings.
No what is an omnivore?
The definition is; "An omnivore is a kind of animal that eats either other animals or plants. Some omnivores will hunt and eat their food, like carnivores, eating herbivores and other omnivores. Some others are scavengers and will eat dead matter. Many will eat eggs from other animals."
Now.. Does this mean that ALL animals are omnivores? No, because the animals you use as examples only eat meat/eggs etc. when there is NOTHING else, its a survival mechanism. Omnivores on the other hand seek these foods out even when they have access to other food sources. Being an omnivorous animal has nothing to do with how an animal looks like you imbecile, i dont know why you cannot comprehend this. And its funny that you are claiming that you have a degree just to seem more "legit" on the internet when it is REALLY fucking obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and even if you had this degree it wouldnt even matter because you are still wrong.
No. 76321
>>76228Also that baby and the apple arguement is so fucking stupid, what does a baby lion do with a living thing? NOTHING because its a fucking baby and its supposed to be fed bu its mother untill a certain age. And just for your information im nothing saying that lions and human babies are the same animal, its just a point to make you see how fucking stupid you sound.
Also english is my third language, how many languages do you speak americunt?
No. 76325
>>76300I can't speak for the person you're quoting but at least what I mean when I tell people "we can't eat meat raw" is how other animals, omnivores and carnivores in the wild obtain their meat, through killing with their teeth and claws and biting into the freshly killed animal.
You're correct about the process of industrialized farming making meat more dangerous. Vegans sidestep that danger by simply avoiding meat.Even if you're an omnivore you have to acknowledge the industry is dangerously large and out of control - who on god's earth needs meat eggs and dairy at every meal of every day? It is a human health hazard and environmental hazard even if you have no regard for the animal lives lost.
>>76315I'm also not the person you're responding to, but did you read any of their sources above which were in fact medical journals and not vegan videos on youtube, which I agree can be a very dubious source of information if not backed up with research? Particularly the links about vegan diets reversing coronary heart disease. Also why the hostile tone when you are walking into a vegan containment thread? lol.
No. 76339
>>76325Im hostile because im sick of these retarded agruments being taken seriously, like do they not see how retarded they are being? Makes me so angry lmao.
And no i didnt read your links, your welcome to link them again if you want, you dont have to, but if you do i'll read them later.
No. 76347
>>76339see post
>>75795, not my sources but from the ones I clicked that weren't from obviously vegan sources looked good to me.
I agree the lion/baby thing is silly, but vegans also hear "lions eat gazelle in the wild, is that unethical?" all the time so it's probably a reaction to something equally stupid when most bring it up.
No. 76434
>>76292Red Meats*
You don't need to read medical journals to excel at maintaining a personal diet.
No. 76450
File: 1457040934184.jpg (164.93 KB, 1600x1068, melulsooriginalsayingimacavema…)
>>75795>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22436/Okay? he talks about glucose and that its good, no one said it wasnt, whats your arguement here? You dont think omnivores eat fruits etc too?
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19828712They did a study on fat people who probably gorged on tons of fat and put them on a lower fat diet and they got positive results, what a fucking suprise! But what does this have to do with meat being "bad"?
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16549459It says too much cholesterol is bad, wow whats new. What does this have to do with veganism?
>>http://www.ornishspectrum.com/wp-content/uploads/Intensive-lifestyle-changes-for-reversal-of-coronary-heart-disease1.pdfSome peoples disease was reversed because of a diet, lucky them, not the case for everyone tho, again what does this do to prove that meat is "bad"? You would have gotten the same results if they still had some meat and animal products in their diet, since they probably gorged on them before.
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15288386Talking about a low fat diet, i guess low fat doesnt exist unless its vegetarian(sarcasm)
>>http://www.dresselstyn.com/Esselstyn_Caldwell_Article.pdfTalks a bunch of stuuf about how meat-based diets cause cancer, his source is the china study which wasnt even conducted on vegans, not even vegetarians, so he fails.. Hard.
he links to this shit in his mumbling
http://medicalconsumers.org/2007/12/31/heart-news-2007/Too much cholesterol is bad, duh, whats new?
and this shit
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-heart-costs-usa-idUSTRE5BG52I20091217Talks about how too much cholesterol is bad, again we know this, this would only be a problem for meat eaters who gorge on processed junk and eat bacon/eggs and stuff as a staple, cant blame them tho, thats what amerifags do, because most of them are stupid.
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21521229This shit claims that you shouldnt eat any cholesterol at all which is dumb and dangerous.
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14623804Too much cholesterol is bad jada jada again
>>http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/23/1/133.full.pdfmore too much cholesterol is bad jada jada
>>Enviromental impact arguementI actually think this is a good point and i agree, factory farming is sick and should be banned.
>>overpopulation if deerIt is a retarded arguement to begin with, just admit you want food and deer is tasty.
>>EthicsI agree animals shouldnt suffer, but thats not always the case, and when it isnt the case i dont mind it and do it myself, you have the right to think its "sick omgeee!!" if you want but i see no wrong in killing something for food. Fur is gay and should be banned tho.
Pic because you used a pic
No. 76454
File: 1457041190929.jpg (132.79 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg)
>>76387Going by your logic, yourwhole arguemnt is refuted now, unless you dont count fish as meat?
But lets be serious now, why do you compares us to other animals? We are not like other animals, we know how to create tools and use them, maybe thats not whats natural to a fish or a lama, but thats whats natural to us. This retarded arguement needs to just die off.
Are chimps not animals because they use "tools" to eat bugs? no right? Anyway its a dumb arguement.
No. 76513
>>76484DO NOT LUMP INNOCENT POOR DOGS INTO THIS STUPIDITY.
>>76507The oldest dog was vegan but that dog could have probably been 60 if he was put on a BARF diet. 95% meat diet is best diet for dogs.
No. 76517
File: 1457044363160.jpeg (79.44 KB, 676x432, image.jpeg)
These primates are savage and are hurting animals for no reason! THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO EAT FRUIT
No. 76518
>>76513On that note:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creme_Puff_(cat)
>Creme Puff lived with her owner, Jake Perry, in Austin, Texas.[1] Perry also owned Granpa, who was claimed to have been born in Paris in 1964 and died 1998, aged 34 years and 2 months. Granpa was posthumously awarded 1999 Cat of the Year by Cats & Kittens magazine.[3][4] Granpa was featured in an earlier edition of Guinness World Records.[5] The co-authors of at least one book have pondered whether the longevity of Perry's cats may have had something to do with an unusual diet of, among other things, bacon and eggs, asparagus, broccoli, and coffee with heavy cream, concluding that Perry "must be doing something right."[6] No. 76520
File: 1457044479522.jpeg (465.16 KB, 900x616, image.jpeg)
I'm throwing up bc its eating a chicken drumstick
No. 76523
>>76484if you fed somebody tree bark for 15 years and miraculously they survive, malnourished with multiple health issues, they would be alive. alive but suffering.
not to mention there are centenarian chain smokers. one freak of nature dog that manages with that diet does not mean anything at all
No. 76525
>>76500> animal abuse is evil> eats animals>>76507Bitch do you fucking read anything I post? Y'all keep asking for sources when I keep posting them ya illiterate fucks.
see here
>>76230>>76339Different anon. Maybe you should read them before making yourself sound dumb.
>>76353Well I posted legit links. Go read them.
>>76450any diet with animal products is high in trans fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol. Dietary cholesterol isn't meant to be eaten. ever. have fun with your heart coronary heart disease and probable stroke and I'll have fun with my lung cancer and liver failure.
>>76454frugivore diets include insects.
>>76519Couldn't find credentials. Please link to legitimate studies.
No. 76526
>>76484>>75944Not likely. Cows have four stomachs and barf up their food to chew it again. Many vegan animals eat their own shit to squeeze out all the nutrients. And they have to eat all day. Being vegan is incredibly ineffective.
Also, failure to thrive is diagnosed with a lot of vegan kids. There are fuckwit dumb vegan parents who've killed their kids with muh ethics. Vegan kids' teeth rot out of their mouths because they're forced to graze on carbs all day, and they get rickets for fuck's sake. Forcing your eating disorder on kids and dogs should be criminalized.
No. 76531
File: 1457044799281.jpg (1.34 MB, 3872x2592, DSC_0227.jpg)
>>76525>>Frugivore diets include insectsMind telling me what kind of bug their eating here, im just curious
No. 76540
>>76526Links:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/how-our-vegan-diet-made-us-ill-848322.htmlA 12 year old girl with the spine of an 80 year old.
Vegans can choose to destroy their own bodies, but get your proselytizing hands off kids.
No. 76544
>>76542also consider:
higher meat yield
No. 76547
File: 1457045301612.jpg (115.78 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg)
>>76531Stop using chimps. Humans are not chimps. You appeal to nature fallacies are fucking stupid. We share 98% DNA with pigs.
>>76534No, actually I didn't. This was before even I was vegan. I was a vegetarian.
>>76538I keep posting links and you won't read them, so fuck off.
>>76541My mom's dog was on BARF and is a diabetic who's allergic to chicken. Dogs can't have pork. He mainly eats V-Dog and his diabetes is under management. She still feeds her other fosters a raw diet, though more carbs are included since her fosters love sweet potatoes and bananas.
>>76543Good thing my dog is healthy. Want me to scan her blood tests?
No. 76548
>>76547pigs are fucking cannibals though
sick
No. 76550
>>76546I hope you drink and drive.
>>76548my point is we're human, not chimps or pigs. glad that went over your cholesterol flooded, stroke-prone brain
No. 76554
>>76550>>76547Pigs are…primates¿?¿?¿
Pigs can and will eat anything you feed them and in the wild ive seen a hog muching on a dead bunny.
No. 76558
>>76551I think she's fed him duck since her cousin raises them. She feeds him trout too, because my dad is unfortunately into fishing. She told me pork wasn't and option due to parasites. I trust her since she's a vet tech.
>>76552how do you live knowing that you contribute to this? If your ignorant, it's understandable, but if you're aware then you're garbage
>>76554>>76555So we're not pigs and we're not chimps. We're not lions. We're not cows. We're human and capable of morality that other animals are not. That was my point. Orangutans are primates and known for their herbivorous diet and being gentle. Why are you not comparing us to orangutans? Oh, because it's not convenient for you baiting me.
No. 76578
>>76571Why do you think it's funny to piss on people who care? I'm here arguing, because it really fucking tears me up inside to know social, intelligent animals have to be pumped full of hormones and live miserable lives only to die painful deaths. Vegans don't have any "agenda" other that saving animals lives and saving the environment (except for maybe freelee the banana cunt who says dumb shit for views). The meat industry has an agenda, to sell meat.
Pigs are sweet and so smart. They're just like dogs. I've worked with them and it breaks my heart to know this is what people are doing to them.
>>76572Bee pollen isn't vegan, dumbass.
No. 76583
>>76578mhmmm
now are you going to call animal husbandry a women's issue or post some dead chicken/concentration camp juxtaposition image
No. 76584
>>76532If you give a dog a vegan diet, you're an animal abuser of the worst calibre and clearly possess no love for anything other than feeling morally superior.
Deliberately feeding an animal a diet it would not eat naturally is practically torture when it guarantees that animal is going to suffer horribly for years. You don't love your dog, its nothing but a little accessory you use to feel better than other people.
No. 76599
File: 1457048386771.jpg (5.98 KB, 225x225, bewb.jpg)
>>76581haha, fucking original. A farmer who rips on trans people.
>>76583Well considering Himmler learned a lot of concentration camp torture methods from working on a chicken farm… Also, a lot of holocaust survivors are vegetarian.
>>76585ngl this one made me laugh.
>>76588idk fatty-chan, how many are you gonna eat? Wouldn't you rather have titties like Morrissey?
No. 76606
File: 1457048821373.jpg (32.22 KB, 499x246, nigella-lawson-karan-diwan-agi…)
>>76599Morrisey looks like shit because he's vegetarian.
Pic related, spot the vegetarian my saggy skinned friend.
No. 76633
File: 1457050398168.jpg (22.35 KB, 275x230, image.jpg)
>>76567So this is basically you only with a skinny starving sickly looking dog that's probably too lethargic and weak to hunt for food.
How does it feel to be an animal abuser and still cry about muh ethics
No. 76658
File: 1457050803720.jpg (134.47 KB, 960x600, retard.jpg)
>>76547Why im using chimps? Oh idk maybe because of that retarded chart you posted where they stated humans and chimps as frugivores? You fucking moron.
No. 76661
File: 1457050975921.gif (100.17 KB, 600x495, human-evolution-simple-chart.g…)
>>76558>>Why are you not comparing us to orangutans?Because chimps are the ape that is the closest related to us, orangutans are the ones that are the least related to us.
>>dammit evolution!! YU gotta be so convinient for meateaters!!? No. 76665
>>76606Well Robert Smith looks like shit and he ate meat. Genetics, bad habits, drugs, smoking =/= diet.
>>76633No, no. My other dog ate vegan and was incredibly dog and other animal aggressive. She was a rescued fighting dog. My current dog was raised by a sweet 70-year-old lady. Sorry that you don't know how to train and socialize a dog. I'll scan her vet records, no lie. Her vegan diet cleared up the rashes on her skin ( though it was probably due to a probable gluten allergy and I feed her a gluten free food)
>>76658K well they're designed to be fruigvores is the point.
>>76661but it's not if you read ANY of the posts I made about nutrition and evolution. Or are grad level publications too hard for you too read?
No. 76669
>>76668no, they didn't. They touched on saturated fat, testosterone, glucose being the primary energy source of the human brain, cancer, insulin response from meat, diabetes, lack of fiber and cancer, decrease in testosterone, the evolution of the large brain found in humans today, rise in metabolism after a vegan meal, etc, etc
Are you graduating high school in may? that must be exciting!
No. 76672
>>76665Lol, my dogs are trained pigging dogs. They socialize fine, love anybody who doesn't get angry at me or my partner and can take down 130kgs of live boar on command.
They're dogs though, if a rabbit gets into the yard they catch and eat it. That's part of why we have them.
You're an animal abuser, and your dog is going to die all because you put your own desperate need for moral superiority over an actual animals life. When he's dying agonizingly of diabetes or cancer I hope you finally find some empathy and feel the pain of his every dying breath and whimper.
If you actually wanted the best for the dog you'd have given him to someone who could adequately care for him when you were homeless instead of dragging him around with you because 'wah waah I want a doggy' and deliberately poisoning him everyday.
You're a selfish, abusive, malignant sack of shit and self justification. Go stroke your ego somewhere else. Nobody wants to listen to you brag about torturing dogs.
No. 76674
>>76228>no >we rarely ate meatJesus christ.
Wikipedia (inb4 >wikipedia) says the neolithic diet consists of 55% of daily calories from seafood and lean meat, evenly divided. What do you think of that?
No. 76678
>>76674It did indeed.
And that retard who says we aren't made to eat beef? Ever heard of the Masai? They have incredibly long lean strong bodies because 95% of their diet is cows.
No. 76694
>>76671yeah, I am.
>>76672I would fucking deck you in the face with my monkey ball if we were arguing in person. Don't call me an animal abuser when I've done more for animals than you ever will. I grew up fostering dogs. I pull over to move rattle snakes off of the highway. I volunteer at animal sanctuaries and rescues. All my pets are rescues aside from my tarantula. I spend hundreds of dollars on foxes from fur farms to give them to sanctuaries. I've taken dogs from known dog fighters at the risk of being shot. I've gotten fucking arrested for protesting animal cruelty. So fuck off.
Also boar baiting is cruel as fuck. You're risking you dog's safety for what? Sport? Entertainment? One of my fosters was an ex-boar baiting dog. Poor girl had scars from tusks all over her body. I would never take your dogs from you, because I'm sure you love them (and you probably live in Texas with an arsenal of guns). The only people I'd take dogs from are dog fighters and clearly emaciated dogs.
Bananas aren't poisoning her. My mom did care for her when I was at my lowest and checked myself into rehab. I lived at a punk house and everyone there made sure she ate. My parents were there for me, I was just to embarrassed and fucked up to live at home. You wanna be an 82 lbs, female junkie without a dog to have your back? She was never underweight. She gets terrible anxiety when I leave her. She wouldn't eat when I was in rehab and she was being fed meat at this time. Raw meat, in fact.
Fucking shit. Nothing made me mad until your dumb redneck ass posted this. When you're a homeless junkie, come talk to me, but for now you don't fucking get it.
Excuse the fucking blog post.
No. 76733
>>76726sane and rational*
I don't know why autocorrect is so dumb sometimes.
No. 76738
>>76726anecdotal I know, but my boyfriend who I mentioned way higher up in my blog post lol, went from a low carb meat and egg based diet avoiding all potatoes, rice, things he was told caused diabetes, and actually reversed his diabetes after 6 months on a high carb potato and rice based diet.
You don't need animal protein in your life to be healthy at all, you just need to not eat like a junk food vegan. Good on you for cutting out red meat though, good start tbh. but you're also going into a thread for vegans complaining about preaching? it's different if it's happening elsewhere but it's kind of expected here.
No. 76784
>>76770That rocks, I love hearing about how others came to learn about veganism from their friends just educating. I don't think condemning accomplishes much but I can understand the anger when a lot of people spam shitty arguments on vegan stuff unprompted by anything haha.
like I almost felt like going off on a guy the other day, I just replied to my friend with a pic of some food I made to say "here's what I had for dinner, vegan sweet and sour chicken" and some guy I barely talk to from college proceeded to call me a fucking idiot and that I'm nutrient deficient and all the standard trolling. I just deleted and blocked him because what's even the point? lol.
I get preached at by meat eaters far more than I was ever preached at by vegans with the exception of one peta protest at a supermarket near me growing up. But even then they didn't chase people around, just were hanging out outside the store.
No. 76803
>>76726Pescas are literally more retarded than vegans. If pescatarians were obnoxious they would get more bullied than vegans.
t. carnivore
No. 76805
File: 1457057051612.jpg (15.56 KB, 275x198, image.jpg)
>>76694Nice navy seal tier rant there dog-abuser.
Your sob story doesn't make you less of a shitty pet owner, and doesn't mean you deserve to be allowed anywhere near dogs.
That poor thing being dragged around filthy junkie shacks, I bet you and your grotty punk friends smoked around him too.
What kind of awful person puts a dog into such disgraceful surroundings?
Cry about foxes all you like, they're vermin and are driving native species in my country to almost extinction, same as rabbits.
But please, keep threatening people over the Internet with your super edgy junkie hard as act because they call you out on being a proud animal abuser. When your dog dies screaming I hope it hurts you too.
No. 76857
>>76805Oh hmm… who introduced foxes to your country, Aussie? People, right.
And you're the one wishing death on innocent animals who are healthy with perfect blood tests, a healthy coat, and a bouncy personality. You're also contributing to environmental destruction more than me.
If you're the person with the boar baiting dog, I hope you realize it's nothing short of dog fighting. I'd tell you that you might as well fight your dogs, but I'd never wish that on an innocent animal.
So yeah, I may have been an addict, but I'm still a better person than you. And clearly more conscious of the impact that my actions have on others.
No. 76875
>>76857Plz keep justifying your disgusting abuse to me. Its totally convincing.
I'm not to blame for some retarded english and decision to bring the nasty little vermin here but ill sure as hell hunt them to help prevent the total destruction of the ecology out here in the bush.
I'm not wishing death on your tortured, malnourished dog. I'm pointing out the inevitable horrible effects of your insistence on forcing it to ride your high horse.
My dogs are a mix of hunting breeds, they are designed for hunting. We take more minor surgery equipment and painkillers for dogs that we do supplies for the people. Our dogs have never been injured by a pig, because we actually know how to hunt.
The dogs track them and make one lunge while we step in from the other side and immediately stick the pig. You stick it so that the lungs and heart are punctured and the pig dies instantly.
My dogs can take down a boar but the hunt does because boar isn't good eating. If we don't cull the pigs, they breed and destroy acres of land. At least when we kill out pigs the meat isn't just left for scavengers and to rot like the kangaroo culling up in the north.
We're not trophy hunters, we hunt to eat, jut like we grow our own vegetables and fruit. Why are you so mad about people being self sufficient?
Hunting dogs are fucking valued, especially ours because they're our pets as well. One is a rescue from an abusive pigger, and the other is her grown pup. They're big healthy bull Arab x ridgebacks. You know ridgebacks? The dogs that were bred to take down lions?
They do just fine against a pig.
I'm surprised your dog didn't die of some gnarly infection being forced to reside in a filthy junkie house. How many needles did he step on you piece of shit?
Addiction isn't any excuse to mistreat an animal, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. I've been an addict but my dogs never had to follow me around the streets or sit around a bunch of dirty crackheads in some smoky, dingy little flat being fed tofu scraps and piles of yeast as if its food.
Fuck off and choke on your self justification, just let your dog go to a good home before you do. That poor fucking creature deserves to have a good owner after you finally give up your delusions.
No. 76892
>>76857Holy shit, can you get anymore retarded? Why is it that people who "care about the animals" have no basic knowledge of ecology or the reality of the world?
>When you're a homeless junkie, come talk to me, but for now you don't fucking get it.Top kek that you think being a filthy fucking junkie makes you worldlier and better than anyone.
No. 88639
File: 1461771814774.jpg (280.1 KB, 600x900, Vegan-Mac-and-Cheese-2.jpg)
>>79970This is my lifeblood. I've been huge on mac n cheese my whole life and this is so delicious and the sauce is fairly healthy since it's pretty much just cashews + veggies + seasonings. Not something I'd eat every day since I try to eat as healthy as possible, but still great
http://veganyumminess.com/creamy-vegan-mac-and-cheese/ No. 88643
>>88639this shit must taste disgusting
>>79970looks like some middle eastern dish so i think its ok
No. 88964
>>88940Between 70% and 90% of people (varies per country) don't even reach the daily recommended amount of fruits and vegetables.
When you're vegan, you really have to do your best to fail to reach the daily recommended amount of fruits and vegetables. But it doesn't matter what the supposed health benefits of veganism are, the fact that a well planned vegan diet is deemed safe and healthy for people of all ages and stages in life, should be enough.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864The real benefits: like killing less non-human animals; less deforestation; less greenhouse gasses; more food available for other people; not contributing to the exploitation of slaughterhouse workers who are often underpaid foreigners who develop PTSD or become severely injured etc.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?newsID=20772#.VyN54DCLS00https://www.texasobserver.org/ptsd-in-the-slaughterhouse/Also, have any of you read this?
http://thescienceexplorer.com/humanity/veganism-could-feed-world-zero-deforestation Disclaimer: I don't think vegans are morally perfect, far from it. There are human rights issues with chocolate, bananas, and other vegan staples. But I value doing your best, more than trying to be perfect.
No. 88975
>>88964right on, and adding palm oil to your list of things that still have ethical issues even within vegan food.
semi unrelated, but I will never get people who get angry with vegans for talking about veganism or say things like "just eat what you eat, why even bring it up? I don't bring up what I eat". Meat eaters (and dairy, and egg eaters) of the world are the way they are because it's the status quo, they aren't
actively thinking about their food, where it comes from, and choosing to support industries or companies that align with their values and life, while vegans are making conscious decisions about what they eat.
Of course meat eaters don't talk about it, because they don't ever think about eating meat, they just do it because that's how they were raised. It's not even a passing thought to them when looking at a menu.
No. 89146
>>88975I'm a meat eater and I do think about my food, a lot, while trying to not impose it on other people. I had severe digestive issues for a decade, turned out to be Crohn's, and apart from being on the toilet a lot, and being in so much pain I couldn't stand up straight for hours every day, there was also the fatigue, lack of nutrient absorption, random joint pain to deal with, as well as being chronically underweight, sometimes severely. I seriously thought I would be dead by forty, and I didn't want to get to the stage where I needed surgery to get a stoma and walk around with a bag of shit all the time. I've tried going vegan in the past, but that only made things worse, more lethargy, and the more grains I ate the more pain I was in.
I've been on a high fat very low carb, close to zero carb diet for a few years, and haven't felt this good since I was a kid (my digestive symptoms didn't start until I hit puberty). And I do have to look at the menu, since everything processed these days has sugar and wheat thrown in, just for shits and giggles, or because it's cheaper. If it's not in things like burgers and other processed meats, it's in the sauces. I don't even eat a whole lot of meat, since fat keeps you feeling full much longer than carbs. And there is evidence that pasture, for cattle, is better for the environment than growing wheat, soy, and corn. Eating almost no processed food ever also helps avoid a lot of unnecessary packaging, which makes it easier, overall, to cope with the feeling that my diet maybe, perhaps, has more environmental impact on the planet than normal people's, but I believe the jury is out on that.
Tbh I feel more guilty and embarrassed when people offer me something and I have to say no to everything, at parties, meetings etc. No cake, no cookies, no doughnuts, no burgers, no pizza, no crackers… The up side is that I don't get cravings and I don't get hungry, and never hangry anymore. If I've had a steak and half an avocado in the morning, I can go for up to eight hours without eating more. If there's catering at work with absolutely nothing I can eat and I know I probably should, I have a few spoons of coconut oil, which can be up to 100 calories a teaspoon full, depending on how big the spoon is an how heaped it is. And it is vegan, so there's that.
No. 89147
>>88975ikr. Even casually mention that you don't meat and carnists are the first ones to start screaming about "muh bacon".
I had one girl from uni who when she found out I was veggie, starting sending me Snapchats of her frying bacon and eating pork and shit, and I'm like "uhhmmm, k'? Enjoy I guess?".
No. 89158
>>88975I was a dairy farmer, I raise my own poultry for meat and eggs and slaughter/butcher my own lambs and calves.
Tell me more about how I don't know where food comes from..
We all know because we're not retards.
Its just that most of us don't get out knickers in a twist over the welfare of a cow or hen, when there's slave labour and irreversible environmental damage going into that one $26 vegan meal some silly little girl just brought.
Your morals are fucked tbh.
No. 89166
>>89158Yeah I'm sure every meat/dairy/egg eater gets their food from cows that are pampered on their own personal farm on their property right? You've clearly never encountered dipshits that believe cows willingly give milk their entire lives and don't even have a basic understanding of mammals needing to be pregnant and the baby removed for us to get its milk.
You can't honestly tell me that the vast majority of meat eaters understand animal agriculture or actively think about the quality of their food when they're pulling up to a drive through window or making sloppy joes. Nearly everyone you know just eats whatever the fuck they feel like eating save for intolerances/allergies.
Vegans by default are making conscious ethical (not simply dietary) decisions about what they eat, whether or not you think their reasons are retarded, they are still actively thinking about everything they consume when this is not true for most people you will meet in your lifetime.
No. 89195
>>89166This little American city girl..
Most people know where their food is from, maybe not your sheltered hipster friends, but most people do anon
No. 89196
>>89158Since you were a dairy farmer, you must know all about subsidies. Ie. the only reason that dairy and meat is affordable in the western world.
You do know that many poor people outside of the western world eat mainly plant based out of necessity, since they can't afford animal products, which are luxury products? Only after countries, like as an example China, became fairly wealthy, animal product consumption raised.
So no, vegans don't all have $26,- meals, many pay ~$26,- for a whole week worth of food. Potatoes, rice and beans, aren't exactly luxury foods.
Also, is it really that weird to get your knickers in a twist over the welfare of a sentient being who isn't that different from yourself? They feel happiness and pain, they have families, they don't want to die, just like you.
Mocking empathy isn't exactly a smart idea, especially since we label and look down on people who lack empathy. You shouldn't be proud of needless killing.
No. 89208
>>89158How can you not care about the suffering and cruelty you inflict on FELLOW animals, or are you crazy enough to think an animal does not feel pain, or won't greive for that male dairy calf that has been slaughtered soon after birth?
Also in the UK it is illegal for a farmer to slaughter their own livestock, if you are from the US then you are the type of idiots that still are allowed to give growth hormones to your livestock there fore your opinion about welfare is laughable.
No. 89209
>>88975Because they are selfish or ignorant to think that their food choices only effect them.
Also as you said being vegan isn't just about omitting animal products, it's about choosing to cause the least harm as possible in all areas of our lives. Boycotting goods from occupied countries like dates, oranges etc that are "produce from Israel" is also the vegan thing to do.
No. 89243
>>89158
>I was a dairy farmerYou don't get to chat shit since apparently you spent most of your life with your forearm stuck up a cow's arsehole raping them via artificial insemination, the animals you're supposed to be caring for and protecting.
What, did you think this little admission was going to be endearing to us? Go drink bleacg faggit.
No. 89319
>>89243Lol vegans are wild
I'll eat a sausage in your honor
No. 89355
File: 1462123627242.jpg (100.35 KB, 635x525, no such thing as a vegan.jpg)
Thoughts on this?
No. 89372
>>89355Don't really agree with it. You can avoid using animal byproducts in most of those things.
Also veganism is about when you are able to avoiding animal products, but as vegans we know this will never be 100% avoidance. If you are too lazy to eat enough vitamin C containing fruit and vegetable so take a pill that by law must have been tested on animals then that decision was not vegan, but if you are given a diagnosis which requires you to take life saving/enhancing medication then it's a fair choice to take those drugs. We are not part of a vegan world yet, and until that is the case we need to weigh up the options.
No. 89431
>>89375It's like you think vegans are idiots? Yes we are aware some large farms use "blood fish bone" type ertiliser or manure from animals, if you grow your own produce you can use vegetable based fertiliser.
So what? Would you rather every vegan just went "oh well might aswell eat some steak and eggs"? Because of your supposedly shocking reveal! lol
No. 89474
>>89166I'm not a vegan but I have a hard time digesting meat and many dairy products. So I'm often on a situational vegan/vegetarian diet off and on. But I still eat meat and cheese, yogurt and the occasional ice cream. I also only really like coffee for the way it tastes with cream. But I'll use non-dairy too.
I know where meat and dairy comes from. I'm from the city and I can't stand even the suburbs. That's too boondocks for me. I know there is cruelty involved. But me only eating carrots from my own backyard isn't going to save the planet. It takes a mass change in the way things are done to have any effect at all. Me not getting that pork fried rice will send a message no one will hear but me. It's pointless to fight a system that can't be defeated by a few scant dietary changes alone. The desire for meat is going to exist whether some people like it or not. And we still have to feed meat to some animals anyway.
I think the best thing to do is to change how animals are treated before they are inevitably turned into food. Because someone somewhere wants to eat them and as long as there is demand there's no way production of animal products are going to end. Meat and dairy is tied into the culture of many people too. How are you gonna separate and untangle all of that and hand someone meat substitute like it's the same thing?
I think most people are very much aware of where their animal products come from and that bacon used to be cute piggies. But they put it out of their minds. Much like they don't think about where other controversial but necessary items come from.
They're turning my old neighborhood into a food desert. The grocery store is getting knocked down. It's a low income neighborhood and the store has barely been renovated since the 60s. Eventually they will replace it with a shopping center since it's on a rather large plot of land. But that will take a long time. There's nowhere else for these people to shop that is nearby. There sure is a lot of fast food places there.
I don't think veganism is plausible as a solution to any of this until they make a better variety of food available to everyone.
No. 89521
>>89474If people are so adamant about eating corpses, I think the best thing to do is to focus on growing it in labs, and omit killing animals as much as possible. I don't think the best course of action would be to focus on animal welfare instead of animal rights, like you are suggesting.
Even eggs and cows milk can be made in labs nowadays.
Also, would you rather be tortured before being killed, be petted before you being killed, or not killed at all? I bet you'd rather not be killed at all.
Lastly big changes will only come, when there is demand for it. If no one shows any demand, changes won't come.
I'll use an analogy to make this clear to you. A bucket filled with sand, consists of many individual grains of sand. 1 grain of sand can't fill a whole bucket, but a lot of individual grains of sand can.
1 individual can't change the system, but if a lot of individuals stand up, they can. But if everyone is going to complain that 1 individual can't do much, of course there's never going to be any change.
No. 89523
>>89521Everything you mention here is true, but it's the way you speak about it that makes people like me just cover my ears and not give a shit. You are actively turning people off from the idea by being so fucking harsh about it. Why can't you just relay all that info without pulling the "eat corpses" card? Honestly I'd love more info about stuff like this but I'm not going to go look for it when I know there will be shitheads like you screaming at me for not being vegan in the first place.
Tldr; you are part of the problem
No. 89585
>>89474Also take a look at the amount of marketed at vegans food products you can find at even Walmart or smaller grocery stores (just mayo, gardein keeps adding new stuff, vegan Ben and Jerry's) that has popped up in just the last year. Vegans create demand for vegan products and reduce demand for non vegan products, voting with your wallet has far more immediate and far reaching impact on food industries than say, protesting at a farm (though activism isn't without its merits).
I can't be bothered on mobile but I'm sure it's easy to find links about increased demand for plant based (almond/soy) milks and decreased demand for dairy milk as a continuing trend. The dollars you choose to spend on vegan or non vegan food impacts more than just your individual plate.
No. 93815
File: 1464050044903.webm (739.58 KB, 1280x720, TangibleWillingHind.webm)
For any active vegans on the board, can I get some advice and support?
I've been vegetarian for little over a year now primarily for moral reason relating to the cruelty of the meat industry.
Physically I don't oppose meat, and I haven't actually had too a huge problem abstaining from it. Interestingly over the course of the year I've found that I've come to be repulsed by meat to the extent that when I walked into my shared accommodation kitchen and the smell of cooked bacon I legit almost vomited.
For a while now I've found myself becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the idea of eggs and milk. I went to make some toast the other day and opening up the butter, I suddenly felt sick. Ngl though, I'm one of those people for whom food is a big, big, big part of my life, but I'm fully aware of the fact that it's unnatural for humans to consume milk into adulthood and that the vast majority of us are lactose intolerant and for the longest time I was very much in denial about the reality of free-range egg farming. Despite all this I'm have a difficult time comprehending giving up things like ice creams and pizzas and all the good stuff.
How did some of you first make the transition and do you have any tips or advice for coping with such a dramatic change in lifestyle? Sometimes I find it difficult eating out with friends as just as vegetarian, I have no idea how vegans cope.
Veganism is one of those things I'd said I'd never do, and yet here I am.
Have a ham for your troubles.
No. 93856
>>93815I transitioned overnight so here are some of my tips:
if you're really uncomfortable eating what's left of dairy/egg products in your fridge, try to give them away or throw them out. I personally only had some eggs left and just made a giant 5 egg omelette one night and had none left the next day.
Butter is easy, just find any margarine or I can't believe it's not butter spread that you like the taste of. I like earth balance since I bake with it, too. Every shitty store has some kind of non-dairy buttery spread.
Milk is easy too. There's almond, soy, cashew (my fave), coconut, rice, hemp, oat, whatever milk. Most walmarts carry soy or almond at the very least.
Ice cream is easy(ish). So Delicious cashew milk ice creams are the best imo but tough to find. You should be able to find the So Delicious Soy vanilla and chocolate fairly easily. In a pinch? Freeze bananas, blend in a good blender or food processor with plant milk of your choice, some vanilla, and whatever vegan toppings for banana "nice" cream. I eat this for breakfast sometimes since it's just fruit and cashew milk.
Pizza can be tricky. I personally go to papa john's and get a veggie pie with no cheese (not all chain pizza crusts are vegan but papa john's is - check allergens on websites for dairy and eggs). also papa john's garlic "butter" is vegan (soybean oil) so I just drench my pizza in that or eat as is for something lighter. I personally don't crave the mozzarella anymore but Miyoko's mozzarella (got online for a special occasion, pricy though) melts and works pretty great.
If there's nothing to eat at a restaurant just get some french fries and something to drink and say you ate before you came. anyone who gives a shit enough to bother you during the meal is an asshole anyway. Taco bell is good in a pinch (bean burritos or 7 layer burritos "fresco style" - replaces cheese and sour cream with pico de gallo). McDonald's fries aren't vegan so watch for that.
Good luck!
No. 97214
>>93815i agree with
>>93856 the last part about going out to restaurants tends to be the hardest i think because you dont want to be the 'weird one' who cant enjoy the same food as everyone else.
in that case, its in your best interest to research restaurants before hand, check out the menu, see what you can eat or if substitution are possible.
No. 97216
>>93815That hams spirit was broken ahhahah.
But I came into this thread just to ask this. Also a vegetarian for over a year.
Thank you to the anons thats replied to this one ! I didnt even think of eating fries at restaurants lol (even though I often order just that because I cant eat the huge portions of food they give).
A related question though, how do you go about trying to balance your vitamins and everything? Supplements one should take, food one should eat, etc?
I know I should be doing this to some extent as a vegetarian but I'm kind of terrible at taking care of myself.
No. 97226
>>97225>>97225Okay thank you so much for the info! Although I dont live with my mum anymore shes always worried about my health (currently vegetarian). So shes always yaks off about this kind of stuff to me.
Do you have any sources by chance?
No. 98084
>>97226https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm lengthy reading if you're interested in the topic of b12 deficiency.
http://www.ancare.com.au/SiteCollectionDocuments/usr/vitamin_b12_deficiency.pdf <-livestock animals are deficient in b12 as well so they are given supplements
also see this
https://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000802.htmLong story short, ~40% of U.S. population is b12 deficient (there were world stats on much readier pages, just search for "b12 deficiency rates"), and something <1% of the population is vegan, so this is clearly not a vegan issue.
I take a sublingual liquid methylcobalamin b12, the gold standard are b12 injections but I can't be arsed. Skip pills, not as easily absorbed even if sublingual.
Everyone should supplement with b12 as it's fairly inexpensive and nearly half of americans are deficient anyway. All other nutrients you can get from whole plant foods or fortified plant milks (Calcium and D2 fortified soy milk for example).