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gender critical and female politics
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No. 4378

Help. I'd like to argue against transgenderism to convert my female friends. I don't want to alienate them and I don't want to sound conservative or cliched.

Here it is, plainly: for sex (biological) and gender (social) to mismatch, you have to accept the inherent differences, not of the sexes but of the social norms built onto the sexes. Sex changes are cosmetic. You HAVE to indulge in stereotyping and socialisation for there to be a disconnect. Being gender essentialist, manness is male and womanness is female, the sex must be changed to fit. But womanliness doesn't come from a male's femaleness, where did it come from? It comes from the society he lives in.
Trans people are either essentialist or hypocritical.

This doesn't sound talk about women's spaces or sports, or about how well they pass, or about anything that already has a stock rebuttal. Could I rephrase this almost socratically? Could I even hide that I'm talking about trans people, and phrase this as being about antifeminists, who they are against outright?

No. 4388

>>4378
idk if you can mix "theory" with "subtle peaking"
stealing this from what someone else said she does, but your best bet is probably pointing small things here and there
like the whole thing with "Lia" on the womans swim team would be a good topic right now i think idk

No. 4389

>>4388
Agree, your argument makes sense but if I heard that when I was deep in gender land I would probably just ignore it because theory is hard and repeated trans women are women is easy. For subtle peaking, I'd recommend talking about how some things only affect 'afabs,' like FGM. Maybe even distinguish between 'afabs and women, including transwomen.' Slowly bring up the idea that there are some things all female people experience that no male people do. For example, maybe say something along the lines of "All afab people are effected by abortion rights being restricted, even trans men or non binary afab people." From there, bring up the difference between gender and sex in a way that always seems like your centering trans people, but actually hints at female people specifically being oppressed. Once you get them to accept the idea that some oppression is based on sex, you can start to talk about how the concept of gender is kind of fucked up. Again, bring it up in a way that is superficially similar to trans rhetoric so they don't flip out. Maybe something along the lines of, "Isn't it silly how everyone's expected to identify with a gender? And how come gender roles for women seem like they suck so much more than gender roles for men?" You would be surprised at how many frothing at the mouth TRAs will suddenly start agreeing with radical feminism, so long as they don't actually hear the words 'radical feminism' said outloud and you make sure to throw in a 'including transwomen' (only when talking about non sex-based issues ofc). I'm not a great speaker, but I've peaked a good handful of people using this technique. Also, a little tip–learning when not to speak is just as important as speaking up. If someone is going on a rant against TERFs… that's not the time to try to peak them, even if everything they're saying is wrong. Wait until you can have a calm conversation, preferably one-on-one. Hope this helps.

No. 4399

>>4389
This advice is golden for other situations, but I was thinking though of how I could phrase the OP argument specifically. I'm targeting liberal progressives, like I was and mostly am. They'd see "women's sports" as a dogwhistle. I want to stay friends with them, HOWEVER I do not want to ally with the "hahaha equal lefts, libtards" guys among them. Conservative men are still traditionalists who believe in sex but then go on to believe in gender roles. Their issue with trans people is that they act in a way unfitting to their sex, not that they reinforce the association between sex (or, "sex") and character. I've never liked the radfem/conservative alliance, it brings radfems closer to a side that uses them as a prop while fighting against their rights.
Using sex-based oppression as a terf argument isn't always that effective, since even TRAs like I used to be actually agree with it. Honestly I think even TIMs do also, (yet only when terfs bring it up first, funnily enough). They admit it but they still emphasize gender as what determines a man's sex. To them, gender is a social construct but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Have you seen Contrapoints' video on gc? He makes the dumbest fucking comparison to gender abolition ever, to denying people political asylum to abolish borders. He says that abolishing gender would take away trans people's ability to be their preffered gender. Oh no, uwu! That's what you're dealing with.

No. 4580

When trying to peak my friends I always talk about it from a personal standpoint. "I used to identify as non-binary/a boy. I can't speak for other people, but personally I realized that I actually had poor self esteem and a fear of being seen as a woman due to xyz." If they're not retarded they know they can't say anything without sounding like a dick, and it makes them start thinking about why they think/identify the way they do.

No. 4864

(I’m in the middle of trying to peak trans my mom via text message - wish me luck)

No. 4894

>>4864
Good luck nona, hope it goes well and you convert your mom!

No. 5353

I peaked my mum by telling her about the self ID laws and men in women's prisons. Pointing out that any rapist, pedophile, violent man can claim to be a woman and enter a female locker room in a lot of places. She had absolutely no idea and thought trans women were just young effeminate gay men with dysphoria.

With handmaiden friends I just play dumb and ask things like "but wait, aren't we supposed to be moving away from gender stereotypes?" and they usually say "I know what you mean…" but that's as far as it goes.

>>4864
how did it go nona?

No. 5400

you can bring up the fact that troons aren’t actually disproportionately killed in comparison to normal people by saying something like, “it sucks that people spread around this fake statistic because it could scare people** questioning their identity into suppressing their transness”

**depending on who you’re talking to, you can say “trans kids”

No. 5401

File: 1653200326441.jpeg (547.12 KB, 1170x3434, EFF72491-2DFB-4953-B87C-A3B521…)

SA^ but crypto is the way to go. put they/them in your bio and start reblogging/retweeting/reposting “ironic” transphobia. repost some of the vile shit TIMs say (by screenshotting it, not directly interacting with it) with the barest of criticism like, “i know trans women deserve to despise their oppressors and fuck terfs, but saying that they deserve to be raped by girldick could possibly be triggering to people with vaginas”. post things about feeling genderless, it’s less of a dog-whistle than saying “gender shouldn’t exist”. making fun of amab/afab non-binary “spicy straight” couples is becoming more acceptable. shove the existence of butch lesbians in everyone’s face, especially from the 60’s-90’s.

in 2022 with the rise of social media, it’s all about the psy-op. they’re more likely to listen to someone “within the community”.

No. 5402

Best way is to ask them what they mean after they say something stupid. There is no argument for trans that isnt "poor gays who want less homophobia" or female hating. So every time they mention something pro trans, just ask what they mean and nothing else. This is Good because you say nothing as well as you didnt Bring the subject Up either

No. 5443

>>5401
>“i know trans women deserve to despise their oppressors and fuck terfs, but saying that they deserve to be raped by girldick could possibly be triggering to people with vaginas”.
This is actually brilliant, adding this to my crypto reserve.

No. 5476

>>5443
>obviously TWAW and the ultimate authority on womanhood but aren't periods an AFAB experience, not a woman experience? Periods aren't connected to womanhood, trans men and other AFAB folxkz get them too!



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