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gender critical and female politics
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No. 4378

Help. I'd like to argue against transgenderism to convert my female friends. I don't want to alienate them and I don't want to sound conservative or cliched.

Here it is, plainly: for sex (biological) and gender (social) to mismatch, you have to accept the inherent differences, not of the sexes but of the social norms built onto the sexes. Sex changes are cosmetic. You HAVE to indulge in stereotyping and socialisation for there to be a disconnect. Being gender essentialist, manness is male and womanness is female, the sex must be changed to fit. But womanliness doesn't come from a male's femaleness, where did it come from? It comes from the society he lives in.
Trans people are either essentialist or hypocritical.

This doesn't sound talk about women's spaces or sports, or about how well they pass, or about anything that already has a stock rebuttal. Could I rephrase this almost socratically? Could I even hide that I'm talking about trans people, and phrase this as being about antifeminists, who they are against outright?

No. 4388

idk if you can mix "theory" with "subtle peaking"
stealing this from what someone else said she does, but your best bet is probably pointing small things here and there
like the whole thing with "Lia" on the womans swim team would be a good topic right now i think idk

No. 4389

Agree, your argument makes sense but if I heard that when I was deep in gender land I would probably just ignore it because theory is hard and repeated trans women are women is easy. For subtle peaking, I'd recommend talking about how some things only affect 'afabs,' like FGM. Maybe even distinguish between 'afabs and women, including transwomen.' Slowly bring up the idea that there are some things all female people experience that no male people do. For example, maybe say something along the lines of "All afab people are effected by abortion rights being restricted, even trans men or non binary afab people." From there, bring up the difference between gender and sex in a way that always seems like your centering trans people, but actually hints at female people specifically being oppressed. Once you get them to accept the idea that some oppression is based on sex, you can start to talk about how the concept of gender is kind of fucked up. Again, bring it up in a way that is superficially similar to trans rhetoric so they don't flip out. Maybe something along the lines of, "Isn't it silly how everyone's expected to identify with a gender? And how come gender roles for women seem like they suck so much more than gender roles for men?" You would be surprised at how many frothing at the mouth TRAs will suddenly start agreeing with radical feminism, so long as they don't actually hear the words 'radical feminism' said outloud and you make sure to throw in a 'including transwomen' (only when talking about non sex-based issues ofc). I'm not a great speaker, but I've peaked a good handful of people using this technique. Also, a little tip–learning when not to speak is just as important as speaking up. If someone is going on a rant against TERFs… that's not the time to try to peak them, even if everything they're saying is wrong. Wait until you can have a calm conversation, preferably one-on-one. Hope this helps.

No. 4580

When trying to peak my friends I always talk about it from a personal standpoint. "I used to identify as non-binary/a boy. I can't speak for other people, but personally I realized that I actually had poor self esteem and a fear of being seen as a woman due to xyz." If they're not retarded they know they can't say anything without sounding like a dick, and it makes them start thinking about why they think/identify the way they do.

No. 4864

(I’m in the middle of trying to peak trans my mom via text message - wish me luck)

No. 4894

Good luck nona, hope it goes well and you convert your mom!

No. 5353

I peaked my mum by telling her about the self ID laws and men in women's prisons. Pointing out that any rapist, pedophile, violent man can claim to be a woman and enter a female locker room in a lot of places. She had absolutely no idea and thought trans women were just young effeminate gay men with dysphoria.

With handmaiden friends I just play dumb and ask things like "but wait, aren't we supposed to be moving away from gender stereotypes?" and they usually say "I know what you mean…" but that's as far as it goes.

how did it go nona?

No. 5400

you can bring up the fact that troons aren’t actually disproportionately killed in comparison to normal people by saying something like, “it sucks that people spread around this fake statistic because it could scare people** questioning their identity into suppressing their transness”

**depending on who you’re talking to, you can say “trans kids”

No. 5401

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SA^ but crypto is the way to go. put they/them in your bio and start reblogging/retweeting/reposting “ironic” transphobia. repost some of the vile shit TIMs say (by screenshotting it, not directly interacting with it) with the barest of criticism like, “i know trans women deserve to despise their oppressors and fuck terfs, but saying that they deserve to be raped by girldick could possibly be triggering to people with vaginas”. post things about feeling genderless, it’s less of a dog-whistle than saying “gender shouldn’t exist”. making fun of amab/afab non-binary “spicy straight” couples is becoming more acceptable. shove the existence of butch lesbians in everyone’s face, especially from the 60’s-90’s.

in 2022 with the rise of social media, it’s all about the psy-op. they’re more likely to listen to someone “within the community”.

No. 5402

Best way is to ask them what they mean after they say something stupid. There is no argument for trans that isnt "poor gays who want less homophobia" or female hating. So every time they mention something pro trans, just ask what they mean and nothing else. This is Good because you say nothing as well as you didnt Bring the subject Up either

No. 5443

>“i know trans women deserve to despise their oppressors and fuck terfs, but saying that they deserve to be raped by girldick could possibly be triggering to people with vaginas”.
This is actually brilliant, adding this to my crypto reserve.

No. 5476

>obviously TWAW and the ultimate authority on womanhood but aren't periods an AFAB experience, not a woman experience? Periods aren't connected to womanhood, trans men and other AFAB folxkz get them too!

No. 6837

I know this thread is dead but here goes anyway, I need some more subtle peaking tips to use on male online friends. I know they're not idiots, I think if I got them to think about it they would eventually agree but I'm not sure how to go about it without them just outing/blocking me for being a terf. Luckily they never knew me in my TRA tumblr phase so they think I'm just not that socially aware about trans rights kek
I'm in it for the long con so idc if the method is slow, any ideas? So far medicalization has been my go to because they can't argue against it.

No. 6838

Find ways to push the you have to touch girldick into the conversation. Act stupid and treat every time they trans women are women like it’s a crazy thing that makes no sense, play dumb and make them have to think to answer you.

No. 6841

Ask them about the tw they've dated and if none, really try to understand why and ensure if the opportunity came up, they would

No. 6842

File: 1669093246198.jpg (888.45 KB, 970x3594, Screenshot_20221122-130007_Tum…)

Personally, I peaked myself hanging out with lefitst moids who has a boner for femboys. And then tims fetishizing the female experience.

When I sent r/eggirl stuff to my libfem friends, they just denined it being a cherry picked incident and not a constant thing.

Like the ones posted in this thread, I think centering on womens(afabs) issues would help it. That tumblr post on feeling genderless until puberty hits and everyone starts treating you differently is good, Implying dysphoria is felt by women not just tifs.

No. 6843

Since they're straight this might help.
I'm not sure if I should pretend to just not know anything at all and therefore be able to question it "innocently" (basically what I do now), or if I should pretend to be more pro-troon and say they have to like girldick, even though they're straight.

The problem is they're male so they can't really relate to female problems. Although I still think letting them know a lot of girls hated being girls as teens and basically wanted to be boys instead, and that's normal. Idk if it would work if I pushed "boys should be allowed to cry without being called girly/trans" etc or if I'll accidentally push them to be MRA instead if I do that lol

No. 6848

The issue with peaking moids is that at a foundational level, they can't conceive women as human beings with inner lives so they easily fall for "female brain" and "woman is a feeling" troon propaganda. You know this, so I'm just stating the given. Do they happen to have any gay male friends? You could appeal to their male solidarity by saying things like "do you think [gay male friend] should have to date a FTM?" Sorry to encourage female hating by using TIFs even though they drive me crazy too kek but it seems to work

No. 6850

I don't know if they have any gay male friends, I think if they did they trooned out, but good idea. Maybe a hypothetical gay male would suffice. Or maybe asking if troons are allowed to have preferences in who they date or something

No. 6851

It bothers me that these people imply that you can’t exist as a woman without being a sexual object. Oh you don’t like being objectified and victimized? You must be a man. Like it’s so fucking bleak that they think half the human population on earth are deemed to be lesser humans. It’s so misogynistic how do they not see it??

No. 6852

Moids can’t be peaked because moids are too stupid to understand the difference between sex and masculinity/femininity. The best you’ll ever get are conservatives. I’m convinced there’s no man alive that understands gnc arguments.

No. 6853

gonna say the same thing. i feel like >>6843 should re-evaluate why they want to peak men to begin with? you should be focusing on peaking women, and maybe reducing your number of moid friends.

No. 6856

The nonnies are going to hate me for this, I peaked my moid.
There's immediately a different dynamic, since we're dating and I managed to be more personal with him so your mileage will vary. Also he's very close to his mother and sister so I'm sure that contributed.

I think I started the discussion about issues that affected me. Invasion of space, fetishization of female experience. Their basis of female experience on media made for and by males.
Then peaked him by talking about the biological reality (humans, mammals, gonochorism, no we do not biologically transition). He was on the "let people do what they want" for a while but he mostly got it when I mentioned how they have been invading lesbian spaces for their validation.

It depends, if you don't think he can be convinced with factual stuff, then go for emotional and personal anecdotes. Then link receipt blogs proving that this isn't just a one time thing.

As for my female friends, they're all in TRA communities, as I was, with various levels of dysphoria, I'm mostly peaking them of libfem (mostly beauty standards and kink/porn criticism) at the moment.

No. 6857

I really fucking hate how whenever I talk about defending myself against troons/aggressive men/other people in general people immediately assume that a woman doesn’t have the ability to defend herself and accuse me of being a LARPing scrote, or the troon who posts gross shit all over the boards. Like legitimately what the fuck. Do you really think a 5’5” woman isn’t capable of tazing a tranny in the ribs in the middle of the night? Do you really think a woman isn’t capable of kicking a man out of the bathroom at her own work place? Is this how you view yourself too?

No. 6866

I have anti-troon male family members who are absolutely not conservative so I know it's fully possible for men to be rational about the troon cult. In general men trust men more than women (hence why they bought the troon shit to begin with despite women saying it harms us) and they have the power in society so having peaked men helps stop it all faster.

No. 6867

Nobody thinks you're a troon for defending yourself. I'm aware that I can taze an aggressive man and that it would be le epic win, the problem is that if I'm caught I'm getting prison time with a tranny cellmate because my country has stupid self-defense laws. People thought you were a troon because you were aggressively and intentionally playing dumb about the life-ruining punishments given to women who defend themselves.

No. 6874

No matter how much I trained, I never got stronger than my layabout stoner ex, who was pretty feminine for a man. If I had tried to tase him when he attacked me, I reckon he would have grabbed the taser off me, which would be not good. If you haven't successfully kicked a man's arse yet, I'd be wary of thinking it's so easy. They really do have tard strength. Be careful.

No. 6876

nta, always kick or punch their balls in as hard as you can, they'll fall to the ground long enough for you to escape and hopefully call for help. If they're a serious enough threat either stomp their genitals (or head, or kick their lungs in) further once they're down. No reason to be nice or spare a person if they're trying to kill or harm you or your children. Self-defense is legal in most places.

No. 6879

My friend is nearly 40 and says he's trans now. I think this is a way to avoid dealing with his actual self-induced life problems. And wouldn't you know it, he "discovered" this because a TIF suggested it to him; despite years of friendship with other TIMs now it suddenly occurs to him? He has always been creepy to women and hates our boundaries. I avoid talking about him now because of the pronoun issue. It is so obviously an AGP midlife crisis, even the handmaidens are quietly skeptical I think, and I hate that I'm supposed to play along with it. It doesn't even feel like the nice thing to do: he is always going to be miserable if he doesn't deal with his glaring personal flaws instead of inventing a fantasy to hide away in.

No. 6885

Tried lightly peaking a male friend and he's in way deeper than I thought, I was hoping I was wrong and part of it was a facade. He fully thinks trans women are women and won't listen to anything else and I now suspect he will troon out sooner or later. But on the bright side my second peak target male turned out to already be a terf, he was hesitant to admit it at first until he realized I'm not a handmaiden kek
Only bad side to it is that I didn't get to find any working peaking tactics from it, but I'll take the win.

No. 6894

that's social contagion right there

No. 6913

This is kind of the opposite of the thread in a way, but what would you say to nicely unfriend someone who you failed to peak? I just can't take it anymore and I've been disagreeing enough that it probably wouldn't seem like it came out of nowhere.
I want to tell them that I can no longer be their friend becasue their trans ideology views are misogynistic, homophobic, harmful and illogical. Their cognitive dissonance hurts me to see. I don't want it to start a discussion about gender because I know they aren't open to it and I'm leaving specifically to not have to talk about it. At the same time I don't want to seem angry or like I'm accusing them of being satan himself when I know they're just ignorant and brainwashed (like I also used to be) and if they peaked I'd happily be friends again.

No. 6923


Sorry for your experiences, nonna, but I've peaked several straight moids with the sports thing. Moids are incapable of empathizing with women but they hold sports to be sacred and they hate anything that smells of cheating - especially if it's cheating that they could also participate but see themselves as too principled to do.

Lia Thompson is gold for peaking straight men.

No. 6947

even in these examples you both demonstrate how men still don't understand GNC and women's liberation (i.e. "men trust men more" or "wishing to participate in cheating they can't do"). Peaking men will usually lead them down a path of anti-feminist right-wing bullshit because they have zero nuance. Men with strong opinions on trans people are always a dogwhistle for them being some form of a raging sexist, regardless on which side they are.

We're all better off interacting with men who vaguely just don't care. Peaking women so that they don't harm themselves by getting into the troon cult is a higher priority. Men will not and have never used their power to really systemically save us, so stop betting on it. We have done it ourselves every time

Kinda annoyed seeing how many of these posts want to help their moid friends. Please hang out with more women nonnas.


No. 6952

Men can't be feminists or terfs, at best he's a gc terf ally. Glad you got more friends on your side though.


No. 6979

Let me put y’all on some game.

Right now conversations on TME (trans misogyny exempt) and TMA (trans misogyny affected) are very big in certain troon leftist spaces, which essentially means
>males who are trans go through more
>females who are trans go through less

but ofc nonbinary ppl (aka women) secretly hate this terminology and it can definitely be weaponized appropriately against either side. it’s easier to argue against nonbinary (women) in the attempt to help them get shoved out of the troon movement which might save them. So i’ve said the following (with success!)

>”wow, how can you understand and deconstruct gender in a way that is meaningful if you’re not certain it’s separate from your racist, sexist, trans misogynistic biases? If you think you’re nonbinary because you don’t conform to sexist roles, isn’t that transitioning based on sexism? doesn’t that heighten the issues even TMA ppl go through? (ew on the last sentence but a necessary temporary evil)

i then ask again and again what is their disconnect from gender that lead them to identifying as nonbinary if they don’t have “dysphoria” and when they say they just don’t “feel like a women,” i remind them that transbinary people wouldn’t accept them on those terms. But you know who i tell them will accept them? women.

this has worked on two women i know who now say either “i just realized i was unhappy and co-opted the trans movement” or “i was always a women i just thought rejection of sexism was the rejection of being my gender.”

Unfortunately they still think some ppl are “binary trans” but they’re more skeptical on everything now which is a step.

No. 6983

>Men can't be feminists or terfs
I meant terf in an ironic broad troon hating sense, of course he's not a radical feminist

No. 6984

I'm gonna be honest, I've never heard those terms before and am not sure how they are used? Got any screenshots or something?
But great job, that's a huge step forward nona! Most people start peaking by going from "anyone who says they are trans is trans" to thinking "only trutrans are the real deal".
Next step is slowly making them see that it's always been a fully mental condition(illness) rather than trans people literally being "in the wrong body" or "closer to having a female/male brain". I think brain scans and crime stats being exactly that of their sex is a good start for that, and then you have the "boys vs women" to show physical difference matters a lot. Just pretend to be compassionate towards troons while talking about it lol

No. 7005

So basically it's a troon exclusive term. TiMs pretty much argue that transmisogyny (violence against transwomen) is worse than what the average Aiden (transmen) go through. So they made the terms TME (transmisogyny exempt) to delineate people who are both trans and who don't go through misogyny.. I know, I'm losing braincells even writing it. TMA (transmisogyny affected) describes troons like bruce jenner or Robby white.

It's hilarious because it positions that TiMs don't experience misogyny (despite biologically being a woman), and even the aidens themselves feel miffed about this distinction at times. THAT is the part to help peak the enby/TiF crowd. These terms essentially erase the fact that aidens grew up as women and were oppressed for being women.

To use real people to make it even more simplified
>Bruce Jenner has more troon oppression points than Ellen Page, because Bruce has to become a woman, and becoming one sucks more than becoming a man.

TiFs secretly hate this terminology, but they don't have the social leverage to comment on it in troon spaces.

No. 7006

File: 1670984854352.png (132.2 KB, 532x508, TMETMA.PNG)

Here's a screenshot showing some aidens realizing that moids, whether they are troons or not, still in fact hate them for being biological women. The screenshots themselves are advocating violence against them for being "TME"

No. 7007

I see libfems defend troon ideology, shit on the evil terfs and post gender reveal videos for their babies in the same day. If they truly believed what they defend, these reveals wouldn't make sense would they? I am genuinely trying to understand the libfem mind.

No. 7008

These men are constantly looking for new ways to attack women. If I was a tif this would peak me.

No. 7017

File: 1671225599690.png (34.18 KB, 740x416, tme-tma.png)

I had to look this up and fucking kek no matter what ridiculous methods they use to obfuscate it, the distinction between male and female will always be made. Except this is more palatable than AFAB/AMAB, because it paints AFABs as inherently bad and AMABs as inherently good.

No. 7018

File: 1671227081103.png (145.66 KB, 360x246, troonism.png)

it's actually amazing seeing how much these two new terms have seemingly woken up some of the women stuck in these movements. There's also been a huge meme that troons have started that completely backfired about how they had "2 options"

>become an intense misogynist/nazi


ofc, most women/poc in the same troon spaces were appalled and confused. Contrapoints himself made a similar analogy in his "incels" videos, where he pretty much relates to their experience and almost went down the same hole. picrel is a different version of the meme, but still has the main two options mentioned before.

No. 7023

You're not trying to understand anyone at all because you're too cool to empathize with women who have wrongthink

No. 7050

>it's actually amazing seeing how much these two new terms have seemingly woken up some of the women stuck in these movements
I think a lot of the tifs/handmaidens really thought these men would have their back as fellow oppressed for being "women". To see them actively talk about how afab aka women are NOT oppressed, but that they as amab trans are, while at the same time seeing how they benefit from being male must be such a wake up call.

No. 7389

Nta but you make no sense
>libfems think gender isn't something that can be determined by outside witnesses like observing sex and to do so is wrong
>participate in gender reveals, which require you to determine a child's gender by obsering their sex from the outside
What is their to understand? Doublethink? Cope to think that libfem thinking is wrongthink, it is the most shilled shit ever because it maintains pro-male status quo with a veneer of pretending to be pro-women to quell rebellion while maintaining the status quo. All their is to understand is that they are hypocrites who want to have their cake of pretending to be anti-gender being assigned by others to another person, while also wanting to celebrate and be social for any small reason.

No. 18403

I really want to peak my friend on a lot of things, not just the trans stuff. I think she would really gravitate towards radical feminism if i pushed her in the right direction, and I know looking into the trans stuff will get her looking at a lot more things. But atm she is really libfemmy, not because she necessarily deeply agrees with it,but because well everyone else believes it. And I think she is really prone to conforming because she was bullied. The other problem I have is that we aren't as close as we used to be.

No. 18404

Show her statistics of how many women in sexwork industry have stds, how many were sex trafficked, how many started when they were underage etc.

No. 18490

How can I bring it up in conversation? Without dumping all this info on her. Sorry I am very autistic.

No. 18565

Honestly, I think it would be hard to bring up in conversation in a lot of situations because it could really make people feel awkward, which would make them less receptive to the information. If you want to bring it up, maybe you could mention that you 'learned something disturbing lately', and then see if your friend is curious about what you mean or not. I do think if you just dump it all on your friend, it might be somewhat detrimental.

No. 18632

I'd start with prostitution, bdsm or porn. Frame it as if you just heard about it and you are running it by her to get her opinion. Look for a news article (you can always find a recent news article about some horrible thing that happened to a prostitute) or youtube video about whatever you want to bring up. Like it if was porn, find a video by Dr. Gail Dines and then be all "This video just came up on youtube. I had no idea porn was so bad. Have you heard about this/What do you think about this?" If she is accepting great, if she pushes back, accept it and then go look for info on whatever her arguments are and much later be like "I was thinking about what you said when we talked about Gail Dines and it got me thinking. I looked into it and this is what I found. What do you think?"

No. 18638

This. A lot of women aren't peaked just because they aren't given chances to really think things through. A conversation is great.

No. 20442

i had managed to peak her on prostitution, porn and surrogacy, and a wee bit of stuff about gender neutral facilities, so i am feeling chuffed about that. i think soon after you learn about that, you learn to join the dots on how women are oppressed on the basis of their bodies.

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