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Help. I'd like to argue against transgenderism to convert my female friends. I don't want to alienate them and I don't want to sound conservative or cliched.
Here it is, plainly: for sex (biological) and gender (social) to mismatch, you have to accept the inherent differences, not of the sexes but of the social norms built onto the sexes. Sex changes are cosmetic. You HAVE to indulge in stereotyping and socialisation for there to be a disconnect. Being gender essentialist, manness is male and womanness is female, the sex must be changed to fit. But womanliness doesn't come from a male's femaleness, where did it come from? It comes from the society he lives in.
Trans people are either essentialist or hypocritical.
This doesn't sound talk about women's spaces or sports, or about how well they pass, or about anything that already has a stock rebuttal. Could I rephrase this almost socratically? Could I even hide that I'm talking about trans people, and phrase this as being about antifeminists, who they are against outright?
idk if you can mix "theory" with "subtle peaking"
stealing this from what someone else said she does, but your best bet is probably pointing small things here and there
like the whole thing with "Lia" on the womans swim team would be a good topic right now i think idk
Agree, your argument makes sense but if I heard that when I was deep in gender land I would probably just ignore it because theory is hard and repeated trans women are women is easy. For subtle peaking, I'd recommend talking about how some things only affect 'afabs,' like FGM. Maybe even distinguish between 'afabs and women, including transwomen.' Slowly bring up the idea that there are some things all female people experience that no male people do. For example, maybe say something along the lines of "All afab people are effected by abortion rights being restricted, even trans men or non binary afab people." From there, bring up the difference between gender and sex in a way that always seems like your centering trans people, but actually hints at female people specifically being oppressed. Once you get them to accept the idea that some oppression is based on sex, you can start to talk about how the concept of gender is kind of fucked up. Again, bring it up in a way that is superficially similar to trans rhetoric so they don't flip out. Maybe something along the lines of, "Isn't it silly how everyone's expected to identify with a gender? And how come gender roles for women seem like they suck so much more than gender roles for men?" You would be surprised at how many frothing at the mouth TRAs will suddenly start agreeing with radical feminism, so long as they don't actually hear the words 'radical feminism' said outloud and you make sure to throw in a 'including transwomen' (only when talking about non sex-based issues ofc). I'm not a great speaker, but I've peaked a good handful of people using this technique. Also, a little tip–learning when not to speak is just as important as speaking up. If someone is going on a rant against TERFs… that's not the time to try to peak them, even if everything they're saying is wrong. Wait until you can have a calm conversation, preferably one-on-one. Hope this helps.
I peaked my mum by telling her about the self ID laws and men in women's prisons. Pointing out that any rapist, pedophile, violent man can claim to be a woman and enter a female locker room in a lot of places. She had absolutely no idea and thought trans women were just young effeminate gay men with dysphoria.
With handmaiden friends I just play dumb and ask things like "but wait, aren't we supposed to be moving away from gender stereotypes?" and they usually say "I know what you mean…" but that's as far as it goes. >>4864
how did it go nona?
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SA^ but crypto is the way to go. put they/them in your bio and start reblogging/retweeting/reposting “ironic” transphobia. repost some of the vile shit TIMs say (by screenshotting it, not directly interacting with it) with the barest of criticism like, “i know trans women deserve to despise their oppressors and fuck terfs, but saying that they deserve to be raped by girldick could possibly be triggering to people with vaginas”. post things about feeling genderless, it’s less of a dog-whistle than saying “gender shouldn’t exist”. making fun of amab/afab non-binary “spicy straight” couples is becoming more acceptable. shove the existence of butch lesbians in everyone’s face, especially from the 60’s-90’s.
in 2022 with the rise of social media, it’s all about the psy-op. they’re more likely to listen to someone “within the community”.
Ask them about the tw
they've dated and if none, really try to understand why and ensure if the opportunity came up, they would
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Personally, I peaked myself hanging out with lefitst moids who has a boner for femboys. And then tims fetishizing the female experience.
When I sent r/eggirl stuff to my libfem friends, they just denined it being a cherry picked incident and not a constant thing.
Like the ones posted in this thread, I think centering on womens(afabs) issues would help it. That tumblr post on feeling genderless until puberty hits and everyone starts treating you differently is good, Implying dysphoria is felt by women not just tifs.
Since they're straight this might help.
I'm not sure if I should pretend to just not know anything at all and therefore be able to question it "innocently" (basically what I do now), or if I should pretend to be more pro-troon and say they have to like girldick, even though they're straight.>>6842
The problem is they're male so they can't really relate to female problems. Although I still think letting them know a lot of girls hated being girls as teens and basically wanted to be boys instead, and that's normal. Idk if it would work if I pushed "boys should be allowed to cry without being called girly/trans" etc or if I'll accidentally push them to be MRA instead if I do that lol
The issue with peaking moids is that at a foundational level, they can't conceive women as human beings with inner lives so they easily fall for "female brain" and "woman is a feeling" troon propaganda. You know this, so I'm just stating the given. Do they happen to have any gay male friends? You could appeal to their male solidarity by saying things like "do you think [gay male friend] should have to date a FTM?" Sorry to encourage female hating by using TIFs even though they drive me crazy too kek
but it seems to work
gonna say the same thing. i feel like >>6843
should re-evaluate why they want to peak men to begin with? you should be focusing on peaking women, and maybe reducing your number of moid friends.
The nonnies are going to hate me for this, I peaked my moid.
There's immediately a different dynamic, since we're dating and I managed to be more personal with him so your mileage will vary. Also he's very close to his mother and sister so I'm sure that contributed.
I think I started the discussion about issues that affected me. Invasion of space, fetishization of female experience. Their basis of female experience on media made for and by males.
Then peaked him by talking about the biological reality (humans, mammals, gonochorism, no we do not biologically transition). He was on the "let people do what they want" for a while but he mostly got it when I mentioned how they have been invading lesbian spaces for their validation.
It depends, if you don't think he can be convinced with factual stuff, then go for emotional and personal anecdotes. Then link receipt blogs proving that this isn't just a one time thing.
As for my female friends, they're all in TRA communities, as I was, with various levels of dysphoria, I'm mostly peaking them of libfem (mostly beauty standards and kink/porn criticism) at the moment.
Sorry for your experiences, nonna, but I've peaked several straight moids with the sports thing. Moids are incapable of empathizing with women but they hold sports to be sacred and they hate anything that smells of cheating - especially if it's cheating that they could also participate but see themselves as too principled to do.
Lia Thompson is gold for peaking straight men.
even in these examples you both demonstrate how men still don't understand GNC and women's liberation (i.e. "men trust men more" or "wishing to participate in cheating they can't do"). Peaking men will usually lead them down a path of anti-feminist right-wing bullshit because they have zero nuance. Men with strong opinions on trans people are always a dogwhistle for them being some form of a raging sexist, regardless on which side they are.
We're all better off interacting with men who vaguely just don't care. Peaking women so that they don't harm themselves by getting into the troon cult is a higher priority. Men will not and have never used their power to really systemically save us, so stop betting on it. We have done it ourselves every time
Kinda annoyed seeing how many of these posts want to help their moid friends. Please hang out with more women nonnas.>>6913>them/their
Men can't be feminists or terfs, at best he's a gc terf
ally. Glad you got more friends on your side though.>>6947
>>6952>Men can't be feminists or terfs
I meant terf
in an ironic broad troon hating sense, of course he's not a radical feminist
I'm gonna be honest, I've never heard those terms before and am not sure how they are used? Got any screenshots or something?
But great job, that's a huge step forward nona! Most people start peaking by going from "anyone who says they are trans is trans" to thinking "only trutrans are the real deal".
Next step is slowly making them see that it's always been a fully mental condition(illness) rather than trans people literally being "in the wrong body" or "closer to having a female/male brain". I think brain scans and crime stats being exactly that of their sex is a good start for that, and then you have the "boys vs women" to show physical difference matters a lot. Just pretend to be compassionate towards troons while talking about it lol
So basically it's a troon exclusive term. TiMs pretty much argue that transmisogyny (violence against transwomen) is worse than what the average Aiden (transmen) go through. So they made the terms TME (transmisogyny exempt) to delineate people who are both trans and who don't go through misogyny.. I know, I'm losing braincells even writing it. TMA (transmisogyny affected) describes troons like bruce jenner or Robby white.
It's hilarious because it positions that TiMs don't experience misogyny (despite biologically being a woman), and even the aidens themselves feel miffed about this distinction at times. THAT is the part to help peak the enby/TiF crowd. These terms essentially erase the fact that aidens grew up as women and were oppressed for being women.
To use real people to make it even more simplified >Bruce Jenner has more troon oppression points than Ellen Page, because Bruce has to become a woman, and becoming one sucks more than becoming a man.
TiFs secretly hate this terminology, but they don't have the social leverage to comment on it in troon spaces.
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Here's a screenshot showing some aidens realizing that moids, whether they are troons or not, still in fact hate them for being biological women. The screenshots themselves are advocating violence against them for being "TME"
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I had to look this up and fucking kek no matter what ridiculous methods they use to obfuscate it, the distinction between male and female will always be made. Except this is more palatable than AFAB/AMAB, because it paints AFABs as inherently bad and AMABs as inherently good.
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it's actually amazing seeing how much these two new terms have seemingly woken up some of the women stuck in these movements. There's also been a huge meme that troons have started that completely backfired about how they had "2 options"
>become an intense misogynist/nazi>transition
ofc, most women/poc
in the same troon spaces were appalled and confused. Contrapoints himself made a similar analogy in his "incels" videos, where he pretty much relates to their experience and almost went down the same hole. picrel is a different version of the meme, but still has the main two options mentioned before.
Nta but you make no sense>libfems think gender isn't something that can be determined by outside witnesses like observing sex and to do so is wrong>participate in gender reveals, which require you to determine a child's gender by obsering their sex from the outside
What is their to understand? Doublethink? Cope to think that libfem thinking is wrongthink, it is the most shilled shit ever because it maintains pro-male status quo with a veneer of pretending to be pro-women to quell rebellion while maintaining the status quo. All their is to understand is that they are hypocrites who want to have their cake of pretending to be anti-gender being assigned by others to another person, while also wanting to celebrate and be social for any small reason.