/2X/ - (XX)

And spiritualists easily fall into the trap trap because the "Divine Mother goddess" live on as Mary. This allows them to go to Church to feel good without feeling guilty, and also to read church dogma (but written by nuns, of course). It appeals to base desires, emotions, and an imagined utopia. I swear I have seen this happen in real-time with a friend of mine. Spiritualism led to goddess worship, which led to Mary worship, which eventually led to her becoming a Christian

Excellent thread, OP.

I am also defensive regarding this whole spirituality (especially New Age spirituality with women "manifesting" things? I guess sit back and wait is exactly how women maintain their rights kek), however there is a bit more nuance to consider.

Picrel is what I am getting at. You cannot ignore that males and females are biologically different (you'll get funneled straight into liberal feminism if you do), so you'd assume that the division of labor should reflect that. For as long as males exist, there WILL be gender roles and spirituality is there to justify and soothe otherwise perceived injustices that result from these roles. This is the case for both women and men.

This is also why "I will raise good sons uwu" doesn't work, because even if (big IF) you find a way to raise good sons, you will not change their biology. They are still male. The male, no matter how great he is, is a threat to the female because she will have to dance around their biological differences by default ((- what, do you think he won't figure out that he can ruin her body with ejaculating into her? That he can pick her up and crush her? You think he doesn't want that power?)) And the dancing around is most efficiently done through spirituality or its retarded cousin, religion. It's both a sufficient cope and a "protection" for women. Sorry that males exist, in a better world they don't.

>>20591
>And the dancing around is most efficiently done through spirituality or its retarded cousin, religion. It's both a sufficient cope and a "protection" for women. Sorry that males exist, in a better world they don't.
What burns me is women are capable of critical thought but still choose to be retards and engage in spiritual masturbation. Women still choose to uphold the lie of social conditioning when coming so close to reality. Critical thought is greatly discouraged from women and all fields of academia are boyclubs, not just STEM. But much women are enablers of this culture, most women support the heteropatriachy, and support choice feminism. Women are unquestioning of most logic related to sexual orientation for example and actively use it to justify other womens rape and servitude. Most women are at face value feminist but still hold onto woo woo faith and spirituality since it's a veil of protection from the cold bleak world. Spiritual lies have to be made to excuse mass murder and rape, what's inherent to male biology. Lies have to be made to excuse idiotic womens decisions to pair with mass murderers and rapists. Even picrel is just simply not true, and not relevant now. Most women choose to be enslaved and prostitutes then complain about their shackles and indentured prostitution. They then participate in shaming women who choose not to be enslaved and prostituted and weave a lie that they are still somehow feminist or even respectable as a human being to have contributed to the heteropatriachy as a boymom.

>>20589
This reminded me of Stalin. He was a dumbass, but he understood the value of faith and though on paper he banned religion, he had created a new one. He turned Lenin and the October revolutionaries (the ones before him) into saints. The old Bolsheviks and western communists didn't have any idea what the hell he was pulling, but it was a power that gave the masses a familiar faith and scratched their primal urges. Peasants didn't have the cross anymore, but they could make dew with the sickle and star. Children weren't taught the Ten Commandments, but they had the 'Moral Code of the Builder of Communism,' which was taught in school similar to prayers. It was primitive tribal magic with the vainer of something progressive and modern.

>>20593
I actually take a bit of issue with your take. Like I can acknowledge that my ancestors went through hell, but I also have to acknowledge that their values and ideals would be different. They would probably hate me, but that doesn't matter. My issue is with their here and now. Honoring your ancestors will always lead to wanting to 'emulate' them in some way.

>>20597
Good point, but I don't think ancestors are off limits for criticism. I can acknowledge that their values and experiences were far worse and made in more extreme situations of life and death but still hold them to a standard like you would modern women. Worshipping ancestors is some retarded shit, I agree there. My criticism of that picrel is the assumption that women are immortal victims through time and not, in part responsible for their own suffering. Women characterize "the patriarchy" as some intangible mental abstraction thst it borders on spirituality. The patriarchy is this unbending entity that infects the souls of other women rather than the very simple reality of it. You contribute to patriarchy through actions; supporting males, defending rapists, having the offspring of males, being indentured by males and tearing down other women who protest this cycle. It's no longer an argument anymore to argue women need rely on males for survival, I've seen this sentiment on this board a few times. How long is the excuse of socialization going to be milked by women to justify their own enslavement? It's just as valid as the excuse of socialization to explain away violent male biology.

>>20589
Thank fuck you made this thread, OP. I already complained about "divine femininity" tards in another thread. How can anyone who calls herself a feminist unironically believe in that crap and not see how it enforces what radical feminism is against?
Also, if you'll allow me to vent a little here, I'm sick of the witchcraft and astrology-related threads on the other boards. They'll always say "B-B-BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNN???? THEY'RE WORSE, JUST LET US WOMEN HAVE FUN" whenever you point out how fucking retarded they're being. Yeah it's soooo misogynistic to encourage women to stop believing in regressive fake bullshit that only wastes your time or worse, allows others to take advantage of you (or the women/girls you're preaching this shit to). Having fun with the aesthetic is ok, but seriously believing in magic and "feminine divine" and whatnot is not, because those only create more problems for all of us.

>>20591
Not that anon, but accepting certain gender roles purely based on our physical and mental capabilities doesn't necessarily have to imply we must be miserable. I believe the injustices that arise from sex differences and roles are mostly, if not completely, rooted in patriarchy. In theory, society could be reorganized in a way that minimizes these problems and provides more realistic ways to cope with what can't be helped (such as men being naturally more aggressive, stronger, etc. and posing a danger to women). How about instead of lying to girls about men we teach them to accept reality and ways to deal with that which don't rely on magic? In practice though, society probably can't be completely re-arranged, but maybe we could still eliminate spiritual bullshit and teach girls how to cope better, without lying to them so they don't expect something else.

>>20593
>Most women choose to be enslaved and prostitutes then complain about their shackles and indentured prostitution
They "choose" to do that because they're scared of men, there's literally no other reason. Just as you blame other women for thinking of the patriarchy as some kind of spirit, you fail to give a reason as to why women are supposedly causing their own enslavement voluntarily. Are you implying that women are natural masochists or something? Back to the blackpill thread with you.

>>20623
>Also, if you'll allow me to vent a little here, I'm sick of the witchcraft and astrology-related threads on the other boards. They'll always say "B-B-BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNN???? THEY'RE WORSE, JUST LET US WOMEN HAVE FUN" whenever you point out how fucking retarded they're being. Yeah it's soooo misogynistic to encourage women to stop believing in regressive fake bullshit that only wastes your time or worse, allows others to take advantage of you (or the women/girls you're preaching this shit to). Having fun with the aesthetic is ok, but seriously believing in magic and "feminine divine" and whatnot is not, because those only create more problems for all of us.
Witchcraft has never made any sense to me. Throughout history, those so-called witches and warlocks were nothing but innocent people falsely accused of black magic. In reality, they were Christians who engaged in odd rituals and held unusual beliefs. Some of them simply followed Catholic practices, such as not eating meat on Sundays or praying to saints. such minor acts were enough to subject them to accusations of witchcraft of popery, And in certain regions, more men were accused and executed. So witchcraft and wicca always struck me as a retarded and honesty kind of an offensive LARP.

>>20623
>Witchcraft and astrology threads
Those exist? Kek, yikes I swear the community here shits on pseudoscience and loopies in the same breath as it celebrates the shit that it's mocking.

>They "choose" to do that because they're scared of men, there's literally no other reason.
I don't know individual womens motivations for choosing to be indentured, I'd chalk much of it up to what >>20591 anon says about creating false narratives about males while disguising their biological nature. Women must indulge in spiritual bullshit to tolerate and cope away mass murder and rape. Personally I don't think of women as terrified hapless creatures who's every motivation is driven by fear of males like you. For example many women tear down each other for male approval and their own personal benefit not because they're "scared".

>you fail to give a reason as to why women are supposedly causing their own enslavement voluntarily.
Because I can't speak for those women and neither can you. All I can comment on is their enslavement as an observation and that is driven by spirituality and belief. I can't speak to their motivations for it, I can only speculate.

>Are you implying that women are natural masochists or something? Back to the blackpill thread with you.
I don't know, maybe. I don't think of women as a borg collective. I think their is definitely some women who are masochistic and like matyrdom, it's common in a lot of birth related spiritualism. Also why do people use the blackpill thread as a pejorative? we're on the same board. Discussion is almost always going to be adjacent.

>>20623
>They "choose" to do that because they're scared of men
All those women who hook up with men and marry men in western countries do so because they're scared of men?

>>20634
>Witchcraft and astrology
I have no problem with people pretending and playing around for fun, like my friend going "I'm such a libra for doing x" is fine but the second she or anyone else insinuates it has ANY kind of truth or merit I feel like flipping a table.

Spirituality is such a touchy subject. As someone who grew up an atheist in an atheist country religion/spirituality has always been very confusing. I thought that if you just make them see reality they'll stop being dumbasses and won't blindly buy into any new spirituality. But instead it seems the vast majority of people who grew up with religion but then leave it just end up switching to another religion/spirituality. Sometimes they don't even see it themselves, like with trans ideology or those goddess worshippers. It's hard to grasp when you've never been part of any religion but there seems to be some kind of mental "need" for these people, but it's seemingly only in people who were groomed into it since childhood. It's made me think it's kind of unethical to teach kids any religion but I understand 99% of the world sees me as a crazy heathen for thinking that. I really wonder what the best way to make these people understand that they're vulnerable to cults/spirituality and how to protect them from it is.

i think spiritualism can be helpful as a radfem, but i also view spiritualism differently than most people (i do mostly meditation and use tarot cards for self reflection/introspection). this focus on self improvement that comes from within helps encourage me to continue practicing separatism and adhere to what i know is right.
i agree that divine feminine nonsense is insidious and harmful. it is just another way to dress up the humiliating ritual of femininity in a way that is palatable to some women. i lost a very close friend because she kept getting further and further into this mindset while i am staunchly anti-beauty. i've also been seeing a disturbing amount of pages pushing divine feminine ideology on social media that are also linked to coquette/anachan/pedopandering accounts.

>>20589
If I hear somebody use the words "feminine" or "masculine" I just automatically assume their IQ is sub 80.

>>20669
i hate terms like nurturing feminine energy the most

>>20671
Being told to "heal your feminine" after working very hard to finally shed your past anxious, neurotic self and becoming sliiightly more assertive is an entirely new level of malice.

I believe things like divine feminine is about nurishing your body, accepting and not being ashamed of your period, venerating the fact that the female body is the only one that can create life etc, not putting on makeup and heels.

I ended up on the weird side of Instagram

>>20679
>venerating the fact that the female body is the only one that can create life etc
Please don't we shouldn't have to live in a world where women and girls are sized up based on their breeding potential because you think it should be venerated, sick. No one should feel shame over a period and I expect a grown adult women who is not mentally challenged would never feel shame over a period. No one should feel shame as much as any woman or girl feels shame for shitting and pissing, its involuntary biology that we have no choice over.

>>20717
>Being able to create life is impressive and beautiful
>"THAT MEANS YOU THINK WOMEN SHOULD BE USED AS BREEDING CATTLE

this site istg

>>20718
>This site
Nah that's just you. Pregnancy is not "impressive and beautiful" if it results from rape. It isn't, period and doesn't need to be. Pregnancy is a neutral process of female animals biology, not just women.

>>20720
Growing up is realizing that feminism is just another tool of the patriarchy and that misogyny is a biological thing.

Before I knew much about feminism I had a more positive view of it because I thought it was about liberation and removing stereotypes about women or that our value doesn't depend on breeding. But when I actually got deep into feminism all I found was drama, infighting, victim-blaming of women who are abused or raped, seething hatred and lack of empathy for poor women who resort to prostitution, extreme obsession and hyperfixation with only talking about periods or birth when it comes to women's powers or what women are great at, praising misogynist practices such as period huts where women were sent off to die and making those huts look feminist even though they were literally created to punish women, calling women who wear mascara/lipstick/foundation pickme sluts/whores/handmaidens, reading books of 2nd wave postmodernist radfems and seeing them literally defend pedophilia, radfems leaders aligning themselves with anti-abortion alt-right & redpill foundations and people, racism in the community etc etc.

Either way I regret getting deep into feminism because now I have a doomer view of the world because I see that even these so-called movements made for women are actually just another tool for misogyny.

I can meet a random woman on the street and her views of women will be way more normal than a radfems or mystical/spiritual/nature feminists.

>>20720
Sorry youre so hateful and view pregancy in such misogynistic ways. So many of you do called feminist have a very moid outlook on the world, thinking anything a female can do that a male cannot is something negative, because men have used it against us. Its very much like you hate yourself. You view strenght and weaknesses through a male lens, thinking we are weak for things that are unique to us.

>>20726
What the fuck are you talking about. I swear you spiritual retards are on a whole nother level of delusions.

Giving birth is like the only thing men ever give women credits for or praise and force women for.

There are like hundreds of insults for women who didn't give birth or married and women in Asia are called leftover women of they don't have a family.

Birthing is the only thing men will slightly give women credit for and you have to be a severely delusional tradthot to act like men or society are against birth when birthing is viewed as something to be praised meanwhile the opposite is call a spinster or a leftover woman.

Tfw when you think your only value as a woman is something that a cat or a dog can do.

>>20723
Once again I'm telling you to fuck off to the blackpill thread and stay there.
Society has always been constantly changing. Every ideology and movement has its shitters. That doesn't mean nothing's ever gonna change and that you should give up on life or happiness.

>>20728
>when you think your only value as a woman
The thing that distinguishes us from men is literally our genitals and reproductive system, retard. You're talking like a fucking TRA thinking that mentioning these things is the same as equating women's entire value to their body parts.
You're not just a woman, you're a person. Saying that women can give birth in a neutral manner is not the same as saying they aren't people with many different abilities and traits. Retard.

>>20732
Ntayrt saying being able to/giving birth is "beautiful and impressive" isn't neutral. She should have just said women are capable of it and stopped there. Glorifying pregnancy and giving birth/women's reproductive capability is exactly the thing that got us in this mess in the first place

>>20726
>So many of you do called feminist have a very moid outlook on the world,
Firstly I didn't claim to be feminist but that's irrelevant. Secondly you're replying to different anons, retard. Thirdly I can't think of a more dispicable, insidious cookie cutter moid/trad perspective of pregnancy and birth than what you're spouting. Your toothless posts amount to nothing new from the standard moid /trad perspective. You don't even attempt to challenge anything I've posted or the other anon so why bother continuing this conversation?

>thinking anything a female can do that a male cannot is something negative, because men have used it against us.
If males got there way and made artificial wombs (which will likely happen in the future anyway) this wouldn't change the fact that gestation and pregnancy are objectively negative experiences. "That a male cannot" is some retardedly male centric and obsessed line of thought. You're right actually, without context as I stated before gestation and birth is neutral in all female animals biology and neutral when you remove it from real life. You are correct pregnancy and gestation is actually negative because its biologically crippling and objectively negative for the female, not just because of the real world context, the horrible things in nature you refuse to acknowledge, all of human history and exploitation around birthing and gestation that not only women face but all female animals, the constant threat and context of all female animals that cannot escape gestation and pregnancy, not just human women. Female animals at least don't bullshit that gestation is some abstract beautiful thing that sets them aside from the males of their species(that are responsible for 50% of the genes from a conception anyway) and they don't use it to justify their hypocritical self centered narcissism either, good point.

>>20732
>The thing that distinguishes us from men is literally our genitals and reproductive system, retard.
No one here denies biology "retard", you can acknowledge what's capable in female animals biology without spouting glorifying trad/moid things about gestation and childbirth.

>that mentioning these things
No one just mentioned these things. Look at the post again >>20679

>venerating the fact that the female body is the only one that can create life etc
Venerating is a funny word for "just mentioning".

>>20636
Yes? "Western countries are such a feminist paradise" - suuuuureeee.

>>20723
Hm, on one hand I want to slap you for "misogyny is biological", but on the other hand, I can actually relate to some of your frustrations about feminism. Specifically those about praising misogynist practices or female characteristics, like creating life. The former is pure coping and the latter is no different from benevolent sexism, its not hard to notice how this praise is always worded in stereotypical trad way: nurturing, kind, empathetic, etc. Only one (1) time I have seen a feminist (or a person really) praise these female features differently - she described them as "pure strength".

>>20749
not to start this conversation again, but would you be willing to switch places with a woman in Iran, Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia?

>>20762
Not to respond to stupid questions, but does literally any indication, that western women may not be as free and independent as you have imagined, affect you the same way a red rag affects a bull?

>>20763
I don't think anyone has ever said that misogyny doesn't exist in the west, but It wouldn't kill you to just say that other civilizations can be much much worse.(on a level you will never experience). and the post implies that prostitution and pornography(as well as porn sickness) which shows a level of ignorance.

So, this is an excellent real-time example of how spiritualism and esotericism can lead even the most pinkpilled radfem down the reactionary path. I know Freud had issues, but he observed this phenomenon in many of his students who ventured into esoteric philosophies and lost themselves to religion, and eventually became anti-Semites years later.

>>21007
I was an anti semite even as an atheist
And as a gnostic I still hate men and I believe women should never ever be with men, practice celibacy etc. It's been 10 years and I haven't spiralled into tard ideology and I'm not going to.

>>21014
you still believe in esoteric bullshit scribbled by delusional schizoids, What even is there to gain by this?

>>21015
I believe in it because I'm an autistic schizo myself and also because I want there to be some form of higher justice. All I'm saying is that you can believe that there's something beyond the material world while still not falling into the trad or divine feminine bullshit. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case for the majority of people and I won't deny it

>>21019
well don't end up like my brother, he just reads religious texts written by dead saints and is now super weird.

>>21020
I've read a lot of shit during the past 10 years and nothing really changed in my behavior. It depends on the person I think. If I sense that something makes me weird, I simply stop doing it. I had only one experience with cannabis in my life and it was in a form of an edible and it literally made me psychotic for an entire day and gave me hallucinations that when described to others resembled more of a shroom trip. Like nobody believed me I only had one edible. I knew that I'm simply too oversensitive to cannabis so I never tried them again

>>21021
I just think that the reading esoteric knowledge constantly will effect you, in psychology, manners, politics, attitude, worldview and even physically effect you.

>>21022
I don't read it constantly, actually I don't think I have anything interesting left to read in that regard. And what does it even mean, constantly? Only freaks read this shit every day

One issue that is inherent to all political movements that set themselves (or think of themselves) as apart from the mainstream, whether they're right or left, nationalists, communists, feminists, or anarchists, is that because they challenge(or think they challenge) the current system, they tend to accept 'out there' beliefs, regardless of validity, often spiritualism and pseudo-science but the eventual outcome, regardless of how it starts, is believing in a world run by a shadowy cabal who controls every narrative and are also transhumanist baby-eaters.