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File: 1656952067292.gif (1017.87 KB, 540x250, nIzJ9kP.gif)

No. 219171

Last thread was lost to the /m/assacre >>>/m/7604

I was going around Twitter looking at some people's interpretation of the female gaze and was curious as to what farmers think about the concept. The popular method over on Twitter seems to be to compare one film still to another that has overt male gaze influenced framing.

Obviously, we all know shirtless dudes != female gaze bc those dudes are primarily for men to self insert as fantasies and not actually for women. There is also the possibility that the female gaze can never fully develop because the language of cinema was created largely by men. Women in cinema, as we do in all fields, had to adapt and assimilate to exist in the space which took away any potential to assert our gaze onto the theory.

However, with enough time and careful thought perhaps it is still possible to develop cinematic language that is female to a greater extent. As you can tell, I don't view a male or female gaze as inherently wrong or derogatory. It's only an issue for male gaze to be so prevalent because it leaves little space for women to have something cater to them artistically.

I'm primarily talking about film and possibly video games. Porn for a female audience has some more evident female gaze present but porn is a low hanging fruit and primarily interacts with ~~the gaze~~ in a sexual way which I don't think fully describes the effect.

Chip in with opinions, farmers! Apologies if this ends up being OT for this board. I made the thread here because it's not really bathroom talk.

No. 219174

I love this song and music video from him.

No. 219181

I’ve been listening to music that I think is very female gassy, I just get those vibes from Boa and mazzy star. I don’t really know anything about them, but from what I’ve seen they’re not that flashy in performances

No. 219374

>There is also the possibility that the female gaze can never fully develop because the language of cinema was created largely by men. Women in cinema, as we do in all fields, had to adapt and assimilate to exist in the space which took away any potential to assert our gaze onto the theory.

This is something I wonder about too because you can't simply reverse the roles of men and women and call it female gaze as they would still behave in the manner of men and women although swapped.

You also can't have a true female gaze in my opinion as it will always be coloured or shaped by male gaze or film in general, it wasn't free to emerge on it's own without any interference, it's seen as a niche rather than it's own view.

So short of having society reset and women then start the movie/film industry for decades upon decades it will never be true female gaze.

So saying all that, I think it could still be possible to have it on a singular level than anything on a grand scale, but what 'female gaze' is needs to be better nailed down and defined as it's not just unga bunga naked man.

>Female gaze is to show a desire or urge upon a subject but move beyond simply physical, have mental enticement , allure perhaps with a mix of exploitation and empowerment sprinkled depending on preferences.

>It's looking at a box, a pretty box and appreciate it but also the enticement of what's inside or what it can lead towards but ultimately it's self serving towards the viewer to some extent.

No. 219421

Every time someone talks about the female gaze, i remember this quote:
"Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur"
So an hypothetical female gaze inevitably includes the male gaze. however, saying that female gaze is just like the male gaze with reversed roles is not enough.
I don't think it can exist in a big scale, we aren't getting a female gaze Michael Bay any time soon. But i think all female-oriented media need a bit of female gaze to work? From kpop boygroups to otomes to vlogging, i think is the female gaze that separates the successful from the non-succesful. If you want to cater media for woman, is not enough to think about us, you have to think with us. Even if that means to stop fapping from a while because "thinking with women about women" is also a fetish for scrotum bearings and this site is living proof of that kek.
I don't think that "media made for women" is enough to evoke the female gaze. Or, to say it better, to evoke the female gaze for woman. Oh yeah, there is such thing as "female gaze for men" as ridiculous as it sounds. I think american psycho is a good example for this because you can tell the gaze from the director(a woman) but is not necessarily directed at other woman, the presence is there but that is not enough. Again, male fantasies.
To end this rambling, for me the female gaze is a two-way experience. It need an space that allows women to see, and women who want to do it. Unlike the male gaze, who is omnipresent and it even denotes itself when the men doesn't "want" (it's a lie, they always want) to show it (hence why is so easy to spot male anons, unless you're on those /ot/ threads who play dumb on purpose) if you don't want to exercise your female gaze you never will, and of you have enough willpower you can apply it in places that technically don't ask for it (i think about Love Live, for example. At frist it was mostly consumed by males. Them the male-female ratio start to increase until it became almost 50-50, and then there it was more woman than men) female gaze is an inner experience and it's kinda hard to work with it, that is why mass media isn't working with it anymore. That is why we see so much NLOG pandering, being a NLOG males you an easier coomsomer on this day and age. The female gaze is not an universal experience, and what it appeals some woman wouldnt be the same for others. So i wouldnt be surprised if in this thread there are many different answers.
So i wouldnt say "what is your favorite female gaze media" instead i would say "what is your favorite media to apply your female gaze", in my case is a particular kpop bg but i don't want to be banned for kpopposting. Sorry, nonnies.

No. 219453

File: 1657058076896.jpg (475.11 KB, 1000x707, 1624021876519.jpg)

Griffith. I don't care what you say. He is female gazey because he is handsome and a tragic figure that gets sexily tortured for a year and comes out a delicious little mummy worm. He even becomes a sexy monster. His weird complex with Guts is also hot.

No. 219478

I just wish there was straight hentai focused on the male character

No. 219479

There is (and it's for women), it's just extremely rare and even if it's for a female audience 90% of the time the artists are unable to get rid of the male gaze in their work.

No. 219483

I wish there was lesbian hentai with that, last time I tried finding one it was futas and some story of a Perverted old man possessing a little girl into molesting her sister….

No. 219494

Such a simple concept that nobody gets right

No. 219504

I'm curious as to how nonnies would do it. I'd like to see concept sketches or something to demonstrate hwo it can be done.

No. 219602

Yeah but he's a rapist.

No. 219604

Nope. He was created by a man. He is also an ugly rapist

No. 219632

Ugly? No. Rapist? Yes.

>created by a man

So was Howl

No. 219633

Okay and

No. 219636

This is a thread about the female gaze…

No. 219640

File: 1657122109335.jpg (166.05 KB, 744x1024, 1621959829516.jpg)

i think whump is inherently female gaze-y. ive never met a man who wasnt baffled by women enjoying whump and its a much more common turn on for women then we're allowed to believe

No. 219680

I do too. Even with R18 otome, the focus is on the female playable character or she's undressed while the male love interest is not. I think JP female GxB artists get it right sometimes, but they seem to have much stronger internalized male gaze. That and the fact that otome–both R18 and teen rated–are often times directed by men.

No. 219687

I am female and I am gazing at him.

No. 219701

Male gaze really is a characterization of camera work and there really isn't that many ways to characterize that. Maybe I'm wrong but how many are there? its either camera framing scene in way to get everything where the camera is passive and has no "character", camera seeing it as a human would see it, camera acting like another recording device (like using staged security cam footage in a fake documentary), or the camera as predatory like from the pov of a monster or say, a perverted male.
I think people are reaching because male gaze stuff can be upsetting to watch, and maybe subconsciously think if there were a female version, they'd feel better about it.
To those hurt people, I'd maybe recommend reading more books by women. I think women shine in staging (setting, scene design) and creating a detailed social context for their characters. That is usually how I can tell a male from a female writer if the author name is ambiguous. Let men have a camera style that clocks them as men.

No. 219745

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I understand why some anons will take issue with Berserk being mentioned, but I think Miura was pretty based for designing Serpico to be female gazey.
>Serpico is those female readers' "dream". My intuition was that he's the kind of man they would want to have around. To be frank, he's André from The Rose of Versailles. For a woman exhausted by society, he sees to her needs and considers her before all else. I thought this might be a woman's everlasting dream.

No. 219748

Wait, I'm confused. Do you want a lesbian hentai focused on a male character?
To be fair, the positions that men do when having sex isn't really as versatile as the ones that women do. I wonder if it's really possible to draw a straight hentai entirely focused on the male. Regardless of the genre, porn always focuses on the bottom instead of the top. What do you guys think?

No. 219755

Nta. I guess I just want there to be media that captures my POV when I'm having sex, emphasizing the guy above me, his body, his expression, etc. The angle of the camera not behind the man's shoulder, but behind the woman's.

No. 219760

I tried drawing male focus het porn comics before and just had most of the shots focused on the man's face/body in pleasure and kept the woman's clothes on.

No. 219766

True, Serpico is incest fantasy + white knight fantasy, considering he lets himself get whipped in a dark tent by his sister. He is loyal to her even when she's acting annoying. He also has squinty eyes.

No. 219774

…are incest fantasies part of the female gaze? anyway miura is a lolicon defender so i can't take anything else he says seriously

No. 219810

>anyway miura is a lolicon defender so i can't take anything else he says seriously
nta but same. on /ot/ there was already discussion about him and his retarded lolicon apologia, and how he portrayed female rape compared to male rape in his work.

No. 219899

I resent that you chose a shot of a man for this thread but I'll get over it.

I think we get bogged down by the idea of cinematic technique inherently being male etc etc. Truth is, women also worked in those productions but were simply not credited for any of their suggestions on anything, had their labor stolen. I know that because it still happens and we credit singular auteurs when cinema is a collaborative medium.

The thing to focus a lot more on is prioritizing women-only crews, or at the very least creative teams. Sure, some technique may be originally utilized by a scrote but I've seen the stuff women come up with in environments where no man is there to edit them down, it's still unique. We need to focus on elevating the female creators who are making things for us, fellow women. The form will mature and develop as long as we cultivate it.

Also seeing female gaze merely in a husbando/porn light isn't that helpful. The reason male gaze is so sexual is that men are simpleminded. Female gaze definitely can include sensuality but it's not limited to that. Kind of the main condition of the male gaze is that it can't divorce itself from the pathetic XY hangups of always identifying oneself from a sexual context. We lose when we only try to subvert because the originating ideas of men are suspect.

No. 219901

You're so close. How the camera's "eyes" move is precisely part of the whole thing. If you let a man control it, be it in the director's chair or a producer, it becomes male gaze. Women are conditioned to also repeat the way a man would view a scene but it's not inherent to us the way it is to them, it's put-on. Breaking away from the conditioning and shooting from the perspective of a female onlooker is really the first step to focus on, along with hiring female creative staff.

No. 219977

There's a lot more manwha out there catered to straight women imo, if you're open to that

No. 219979

File: 1657228531702.png (Spoiler Image, 388.67 KB, 671x577, Screenshot (104).png)

the female gaze does not exist in my opinion. i'd claim that women have internalized the male gaze so intensely, that they actually do not know how to look at a man in a sexual way. that's why every time a man gets sexualized, it seems gay. fujoshis put their own twist on it, but what they're doing is showing off their object of desire, the man, in the same way men look at women. picrel shows a fit man in a traditionally feminine pose. so, do women actually like femininity or did our patriarchal society just tell us that femininity is sexually desirable?

No. 219980

is this unsaged kpop porn? please kys

No. 219981

read the fucking text moron

No. 219983

Spoiler this shit ffs

No. 220009

What are you saying

No. 220031

when i look at this i see an image that caters to gays, not women, because it is emphasizing feminine attributes. the man looks submissive, which is not typically what a straight woman is looking for in a straight man. i think pic rel >>219640 is closer to what the female gaze is trying to get at, the mans body looks strong and he is objectified (hot bod, no face) but nothing about him seems feminine. have a lot of women internalized the male gaze? absolutely, but i think the female gaze still exists

No. 220033

>picrel shows a fit man in a traditionally feminine pose
Kek you are wild nonnie. For you to believe simply spreading one's legs is a feminine pose says a whole lot more about your own internalized misogyny than it does about me being attracted to the male anatomy. This is the same thing homophobic men spout, they're terrified of the most mundane actions being seen as girly. I would argue that women being attracted to what you call "feminine" positions is more subversive and female gazey than only liking "masculine" poses because stereotypical masculinity is what 99% of women are groomed and trained into being aroused by from childhood.

I would like your image if it wasn't drawn in such an offputting style, but also consider that most women don't have use for ass access because we can't stick our vagina on ass. I like pegging and fingering guys but I certainly wouldn't think a woman was less into men for not wanting to do something that doesn't bring her direct physical pleasure. If he was drawn on his back just holding his dick and looking longingly at the viewer, that would be sexualized but less "gay" because it's a more common pose for a man to assume when he's about to get ridden. Most straight women would find that appealing.

No. 220071

It exist. Our own gaze exist as we look at the world. Many female artist go for a male perspective while creating art though - either because it's the default or because they feel uncomfortable self-inserting and gazing directly.
Your pic looks like gay male POV judging by the amount of sperm in it, which turns me off personally as I want to self-insert.
I would enjoy a submissive het POV pic like the one >>220033 describes,

No. 220225

File: 1657310474105.jpg (66.98 KB, 540x644, EMwYKiMXYAAHduK.jpg)

Can you guys post examples of good female gaze?
I recall someone said this photoshoot of Hayden Christiensen felt female gazey in /g/, though I believe the photographer is a gay man

No. 220259

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No. 220270

But why is the go-to ~feminine female-gazey pose~ in the image a fucking man on his back with his asshole spread covered with semen. Doesn't help he's lying on the floor of a public shower. Not to mention the tally marks on his ass. Where does the woman fit in with this image? I'm not the one who produced the semen am I? Not saying what you like makes you a scrote, but when I think female-gaze pose for a man I think I'd rather see art of a beautiful man on his knees looking ready to offer up his face for me to sit on. Or something.
Also this fucking "art" has this man nipple pierced ugh, what is going on with your head nonny?

No. 220271

only a kpopfag would know his name

No. 220280

This is not the female gaze, this is the FTM aiden ideal. When a women with internalized misogyny fail to imagine herself in sexual situations she will feel drawn to picrel, inserting herself in that position. Hence why fujoshits are everywhere. Oh also it’s a condition that stems from porn addiction. Porn warps one’s sexuality which is why we have the most retarded fetishes around nowadays. Being a fujoshit is one of them

No. 220311

File: 1657347411196.png (4.62 MB, 1654x1335, illust_70554898_20210216_09234…)

if you hate faggots so much then stop lusting over most faggoty men ever. leave them to us pornsick faggoty anime boy lovers and go fuck a real man. you said it yourself: imagining yourself getting fucked by a cartoon twink day in and day out is for the mentally ill, such as trannies. try explaining that to someone IRL.

No. 220315

Paki is that you?

No. 220323

Give it a fucking rest already. I don't care about the goddamn fujoshi debate, and I'm sick of threads constantly being derailed by it. You're clearly not going to change each other's minds, so just save us all the headache and shut the hell up.

No. 220350

File: 1657367356049.jpg (83.9 KB, 519x807, 54326768.jpg)

I think a start to understanding the female gaze would be looking at media made for women by women eg. shojo/josei/yaoi manga or romance and erotica novels written by women which have existed for decades and have developed their own language and expression.
>are incest fantasies part of the female gaze?
I would say that it absolutely is fantasy for some, it's pretty prevalent in shojo and romance novels. on a sidenote I think we shouldn’t completely discard "taboo" subjects from being a part of the female gaze like for example in the previous thread there was a discussion on abusive love interests in otome games but anons immediately discarded it, in my opinion there is a prevalent fantasy of obsessive abusive love in a lot of media made by woman and to deny it because it’s “problematic” or doesn’t fit in a clean image of what the female gaze should be is wrong.

No. 220362

The closest I've gotten to the female gaze is a man's hands and Kaneoya Sachiko art. The female gaze and anyone who can create something that caters to it, is a unicorn.

No. 220365

>When a women with internalized misogyny fail to imagine herself in sexual situations she will feel drawn to picrel, inserting herself in that position. Hence why fujoshits are everywhere.
Why are you people so deluded about what most fujoshis are actually like? Sure, the mentally ill trannies and/or yumes will self insert as one of the guys but actual fujos by definition just enjoy seeing two guys fuck, as an observer, not as a participant in any way. There really isn't more to it than that, fujos simply DO NOT SELF INSERT. Get it through your heads.

No. 220372

This. There are definitely some mentally ill girls who do self-insert but in my experience, as I've been around fujos spaces quite a lot, the vast majority of them like to see two pretty guys fucking. I think the self-insert thing comes from men projecting, because they actually do self-insert in everything (because they're huge narcissist) and you can see this in the embarassing amount of harem shit and isekais where the plain MC is meant to be the average male viewer. Also a lot of people confuse relating to a character with straight up imagining yourself in its place.

No. 220375

Where's the pussy eating though

No. 220387

File: 1657388711262.jpg (219.66 KB, 1000x523, Uroš Predić.jpg)

I don't know how I can describe my specific type of "female gaze" but I just like seeing good looking men simply existing, I appreciate the male body and the aesthetic as it is, Ideally men wouldn't have autonomy and wouldn't even speak either, rather just sit motionless for my sake so I could stare at them, I could touch them and kiss them but I don't want them to move in the slightest

No. 220396

How do you stop internalizing the male gaze? Even with characters I like I will often view them in my mind as a male would when viewing a female he is attracted to and I don’t like that because that’s not how I actually view things irl.

No. 220397

Yaoi was created to escape the male gaze and self-insert from a "safe distance" as a male. There's nothing "mentally ill" about girls self-inserting as yaoi boys until they start to actually want to become men in real life. A lot of women naturally want to be loved and feel the touch of a handsome or cute boy, the act of imagining oneself (to some degree, consciously or subconsciously) in a situation where two fictional people are in a relationship is not related to mental illness and it's nothing to be ashamed of (because obviously you're denying so hard that "actual fujos" ever do it because you think it's a shameful thing, but the truth is that most fujos are straight women who are attracted to the yaoi boys so some kind of self-insert is bound to happen).

No. 220428

But here's the thing, I can see a beautiful man and appreciate looking at him in many situations, even sexual ones. That doesn't automatically mean that I imagine myself having sex with the beautiful man. I can stare at a character looking pretty and I can also see two of them in a relationship and enjoy the dynamic. I don't see how this thing is so hard to understand for some people, wanting to look at someone fucking among other things doesn't mean I want to be there with them. Self-inserting isn't bound to happen at all.
Yaoi was also created so that women could explore the concept of sexuality without having to see themselves sexualized and shamed in a relationship with a man. That's not really self-inserting, it's not like a yume that ships herself with the husbando. It was also a safe space for women to make and appreciate stories about pretty men when the medium was dominated by gross rapey hentais.

No. 220432

File: 1657407305849.png (2.97 MB, 1918x1280, tjtcxc54z5211.png)

Obligatory post

No. 220434

Imo if this female gaze was to ever exist in the media for example, I feel like masculine women will be quite common in it. I've found that some young women regardless of sexuality seem to love masculine women (not just butches but women with features that are seen as masculine and women that have masculine qualities/attitudes).

No. 220441

File: 1657411602787.jpg (511.55 KB, 1248x2048, 49756918_p0.jpg)

Nayrt but I think anons issue was with calling women who self insert mentally ill, when there is nothing technically wrong with either observing or self inserting. I know it's annoying to hear people unfamiliar with yaoi assume that the only way to enjoy it is by self inserting but there is no need to make assumptions about the women who do. Mostly since there are several ways one can enjoy a piece of media.

No. 220443

When I say "self-inserting" I don't mean like a yume who literally draws/imagines herself with her husbando (herself, not someone else, or simply wondering what it'd be like to be there).
Why do you even want to look at yaoi anyway? Why is is interesting to you? Everything in fiction requires some degree of self-inserting, even if you're not aware of it which I've already said but you completely ignored; this is especially true because most if not all fiction is just escapism. Even normal stories need to be relatable to be good. And when you relate, you can more easily imagine what it'd be like to be in the characters' place. You think what you'd do in the situations the characters find themselves in. That's what I mean by "self-inserting" here. And that's what fujoshi do, whether they realize it or not, they want to be in the uke's place, or the seme's, or even just a spectator. They think about how good it must feel, they wish they could experience that, or wish they could do that to someone else. This is what "exploring your sexuality" is all about, isn't it? It's literally what you said and what I said before. Self-inserting from a safe distance, without having to think about your own femaleness. Even the lesbian fujoshi have to relate and long for what they're reading (just not necessarily with a man, of course) to some degree to be able to enjoy yaoi. Deep down you look at yaoi because you're attracted to the characters and/or the idea of their relationship/sex, because you relate or wish to relate, and it has nothing to do with mental illness, it's just something that humans naturally do. You're just not aware of it while you're reading or looking at it.

No. 220444

>I know it's annoying to hear people unfamiliar with yaoi assume that the only way to enjoy it is by self inserting
Doubleposting to say that I'm not unfamiliar with yaoi. I'm very familiar with it and fujos as I used to be one myself, like many others here. And I'm talking about what I know and have observed from other fujos. I don't know why the fujos on lolcow are so in denial about certain things that most fujos outside have no problem admitting.
I also want to clarify that here I'm mostly talking about NSFW.
And maybe one could call this kind of self-inserting "indirect self-inserting"? I think that gets my point across better.

No. 220445

Wait, reading this again while browsing the thread, the man's hands is really significant. I feel like being into a man's hands, or say calves, is very female-gazey. I don't see the whole calf thing but it's been a pattern since the 18th century as far as I know. Those are definitely body parts that are mostly female-gazey.
A man wouldn't really have a reason to become fixated on hands, but women liking hands makes sense because of the sexual component and the sense of being with someone stronger or protective/a guardian. Also hands doing labor is sexy. Strong hands, lean hands, pale hands, calloused hands, women even have different tastes in what man hands are found attractive. It isn't even autistically fetishy like what male sexuality has with their fetishes, ex. foot fetish.
Idk I feel like a lot of people itt are confused on what counts but I'm seeing some really good, strong examples here

No. 220447

>Everything in fiction requires some degree of self-inserting
If this is true why even bother pointing it out for fujos? There's always this implication that fujos are too self hating and insecure and misogynistic to do what they really desire deep down, and that they only like gay ships because they can't emotionally cope with superior het ships.

If there's any element of self insertion for me, it's so minor it's not worth acknowledging. I like the two male characters I ship. I want to read about both of their personalities and their relationship dynamics, I want to look at their designs. I don't involve myself, and it's not because I find myself unworthy of having sex or romance. I'm not interested in or attracted to myself the way I am to the characters, and I can have that stuff irl.

No. 220467

I just think its fucked up wanting to see pseudo-female underaged boys getting raped, I don't t think its 'sexy', I think its an indication you suffer from porn sickness

No. 220484

First of all, stop assuming everyone who doesn't agree with you or isn't a fujo is one of the anti-fujo autists. I'm not implying any of that shit you're saying, and I don't think there's anything wrong with you self-inserting a little bit in a subconscious way, I think it's normal. I believe male or female gaze inherently involves an element of self-inserting, as in, the thing that you're looking at is made for you, with you in mind, the characters are "performing" as if you were present there, and that's how male/female gaze works, in my opinion.
Second, I only brought it up because someone said self-inserting in yaoi is something that only mentally ill FtMs do, which is obviously bullshit but somehow two people ITT think so. Things aren't so black-and-white.

No. 220495

File: 1657436502976.gif (2.86 MB, 330x314, modern-family-spray.gif)

Take your meds, Paki-chan.

No. 220513

File: 1657438548693.gif (3.23 MB, 410x498, 1652286109911.gif)

>pseudo-female underaged boys

No. 220519

And she wants to fuck Varg. Smh.

No. 220544

File: 1657447982629.png (570.5 KB, 3838x2490, FGZjLBRUYAMzeIa.png)

You should probably look into the history of BL if you are confused about it. The women that created it did so for a reason, maybe you just can't relate to it because your life was different.
I personally like it because I don't have to be involved. There are no women in the sexual act, so I don't involuntarily identify with it, I don't have to imagine myself in the sexual situation. It's also 2D so I don't even think of them as real people. This is important to me because of the negative experiences I had with sex and men in the past. It lets me enjoy sex from a safe place.

This is why I think female gaze should just be anything that a majority of women like. We're all different, so what counts and what doesn't will changed a bit based on cultures and experiences. As long as it's made by women for women I think it's ok.

No. 220547

>so I don't involuntarily identify with it, I don't have to imagine myself in the sexual situation.
I never self insert when reading romance, either gay or straight stuff, but that reminded me of how when I read shojo manga I usually go "if I were her I wouldn't date him" or "if he told me that I would have insulted him instead of crying like the MC in that scene", it can be fun but reading a long shojo manga that's a romcom is a completely different experience from reading a BL romcom one-shot between adult characters with sex scenes. Sometimes I wish there were an actual equivalent of these BL manga with straight pairings just to see how that would happen, because shojo manga don't have an exclusively adult audience, and josei manga are slow series and can be a bit too dramatic and serious. Don't get me started with yuri but that's off-topic now.

No. 220549

I relate to one or both of the characters, sure. That's not really was self-inserting means though. Self-inserting from a "safe distance" doesn't really exist imo, you either self-insert in the yume (or aiden, if you're unhinged) way or you just relate to the characters because of looks, experiences, personality and other stuff. That's what people generally do with media they enjoy, they relate to it because of various factors (interesting story and themes, or maybe they find the characters hot). Again, relating and self-inserting are very different things. Both are fine but I honestly think self-inserting can be a slippery slope, there are literally people kinning or getting mad at seeing "their" husbando in situations they don't like seeing. Self-inserting is kinda what moids do when they obsess over waifus they think are really theirs.

Nobody cares about what you think Paki-chan. I also think that wanting to fuck a deranged man is a form of severe mental illness, but here you are simping for Varg.

No. 220550

File: 1657458159020.jpg (25.16 KB, 309x500, ed871e9937d2ebc8a83750f435f3d9…)

I always found the way men were styled in old school vkei to be female gazey even though the men in questions are huge misogynists lol

No. 220555

nta, but you really wanna bring up BL history ? cause your gonna find a lot of sexualized depictions of child rape in that history


No. 220559

You clearly don't know what sexualized and romanticized mean. If you refer to the fact that the drawings are beautiful and the sex scenes (which are not explicit btw) are drawn symbolically or with pretty elements around them, that's a thing that people often do to take something that's traumatic or gross and make it into something beautiful in order to analyze and explore it in a better, gentler way. Not to mention that it was the style that was very popular at the time.
You can see what I mean in the authors' interviews and the opinions of the girls (young ones too, after all the genre was shoujo) reading the works and using them to explore the concept of sex and abuse by relating to characters that thought like them and were in their positions. Those stories were no different from the thousands of romance works, except that maybe they actually talked about sex instead of just alluding to it (because girls have to be pure!!!) and using boys (gasp) to do it. You won't find people going "This child character is so hot, I want to fuck him and actually rape isn't bad, children can consent!!" shit that you see all the time in works (male-made) where rape and children are actually sexualized.

No. 220561

I really cannot believe you are fucking doing this, I'm sorry but you are a fucked up person if you think that using children(regardless of sex) for some dumb yaoi brain rot fetish, I hate when fujos do this
>If you refer to the fact that the drawings are beautiful and the sex scenes (which are not explicit btw) are drawn symbolically or with pretty elements around them, that's a thing that people often do to take something that's traumatic or gross and make it into something beautiful in order to analyze and explore it in a better, gentler way
I really can't even fucking answer that, you admit they were stylized sex scenes of a child character being raped, I am sorry but you are suffering from some terminal yaoi brain rot to even defend this

I am not paki-chan or a fujo hater either, but you don't have to defend every fucked BL content

No. 220577

And? The intent here is not to sexualize kids to get the viewer off. You can read the Kaze Ki page on wikipedia if you want a more detailed explanation. This was not about a having a m/m fetish, there is a reason why they were male and why this was portrayed, specially at the time it was published. You are oversimplifying the message because it makes you uncomfortable.
From an interview the KazeKi author did:
>Keiko Takemiya is not apologetic about including troubling portrayals of sexual violence involving children.
>"Such things do happen in real life. Hiding it will not make it go away. And I tried to portray the resilience of these boys, how they managed to survive and regain their lives after experiencing violence." This was the late 1970s when such things were not talked about in mainstream media, let alone girls' manga. Ms Takemiya recalls receiving a letter from one of her readers who said she had been raped by her father. "She never thought something like that happened to other people, but reading my manga told her that she wasn't alone and that saved her," she recalls.

No. 220578

we used to beat people up for this degree of moralfaggotry. everythings all topsy-turvy now.

No. 220579

here we go again. i dont even like kaze to ki no uta but try to put it in context and compare it to the fucking scrote garbage it was based off of. btw a lot of this scrote garbage was utilized as the original 'lgbt' corpus hence why the authors chose it as a subject but good luck getting anyone edumacated by tiktok to admit that. after all 'lgbt' was shat out of sylvia riviera (NAMBLA marcher in 1995)'s holy shittoris sometime around trans bipoc queers rioting at stonewall and never did anything bad, like permitting pederasts into the fold or anything.

les amities particulieres:
>written by deranged pedoscrote roger peyrefitte
>roger as a schoolboy seduces a significantly younger boy who is treated as some innocent vignette with no personality (despite already being raped by another boy)
>deranged jealous religious pedoscrote (much like the author as an adult) intercepts their letters
>younger boy gets all the blame in the scandal and commits suicide, basically presented like some violated maiden committing suicide after soldiers loot and burn
>deranged pedoscrote roger wrote the book to justify why he stepped aside and never loved the younger boy enough to defend him while he was actually alive
>between the lines though its 'i do not like adult men and he wasn't a worthwhile investment long-term'
>film adaptation had peyrefitte dating an 11 year old aristocrat boy from the cast, the relationship was actually celebrated by the disgusting 1960s french media

a death in venice
>written by thomas mann, a man who lusted after his own son
>a story about his self insert following a polish boy around while cooming and lamenting his lost youth
>the polish boy actually existed and the author actually did all of it
>film adaptation basically ruined main actor's life because of the bastard director who was also a predator

meanwhile the story of kaze to ki no uta and heart of thomas is:
>pederast pedo scrotes are evil demons
>go with someone your own age

the 'message' is completely fucking different. the female gaze cannot exist separately from the perverted male gaze it tries to tentatively break out of. the fact gilbert has an internal monologue, the potential to love someone else and other things makes it entirely distinct to the scrote depictions of boys. the only model the authors could've worked off off of was something like lolita by nabokov (already sensationalized)
also this was the early 1970s, the fucking decade that naked 8 year old brooke shields was shoved into a playboy adjunct and green/left parties across the western world openly endorsed pedophilia. it wasn't some shit like loveless written 30 years later that openly glamorizes a scrote raping a boy

No. 220586

Anyways yeah I think hands are definitely female-gazey

No. 220587

If you lack reading comprehension and the ability to see the clear intent of others (autism), I advise you to go back to Twitter where you belong.

No. 220592

I definitely agree. Also, arms.

No. 220595

>You sound that like one radblr radfem…
Nta but why willingly show your ass like this kek letting the whole thread know that you're also a tumblroid getting in fights over your retarded takes on the daily.

Clavicles/collarbones too

No. 220599

K but can you explain why you want to fuck Varg?

No. 220600

File: 1657469450993.png (177.01 KB, 455x522, based.png)

Actually, I think Kaneoya described it perfectly.

No. 220602

I don't want to derail too much but can you explain this? I remember reading Loveless when I was a tween and I don't think it has any nsfw scenes and the main characters don't get together. It definitely is a lot more cheap and the author is very into young boys (I think she's a married woman with a daughter though).

No. 220604

Samefag, forgot to greentext but yeah I was talking about the last bit of your post

No. 220606

Yes, definitely
Sure, I can see it.

No. 220607

And you sound like a scrote refusing to listen to women, trying to vilify what they did without understanding why.

No. 220608

I've noticed that a lot of women fangirl about male celebrities hands, it's never man that do it.
I even remember when I watched The Power of The Dog and discovering it was directed by a woman, suddendly all the hand shoots make sense kek
I think it's a matter of sensuality, women like to fantasize, moids like to have everything displayed in the most degenerate way possible to the point it stops being sexy.

No. 220609

I like the back of the neck. It's so vulnerable spot in a way. I like how his hair looks like there and it's a joy to touch it.

No. 220610

>moids like to have everything displayed in the most degenerate way possible to the point it stops being sexy
I would rather describe it as "vulgar" and "distasteful".

No. 220611

Yes, also this.

No. 220614

Damn I agree, never noticed that I actually liked this.
Is nail polish also female gaze or is this too troony? Imo not all men can pull it off, but when they can it looks really good. Only black or dark colors tho.

No. 220618

I guess nail polish in general is female-gazey since women like getting their nails done. Personally for me I don't like it on myself or men. It's a very feminine interest/routine though. Never seen nail polish look even vaguely well done on a man, usually cracked on their stubby man fingers.

No. 220619

they hated her because she had a point tbh, that one anon sounds like a scrotish for defending their artsy rape doujins in such a pretentious way instead of making an honest concession that the choice to depict rape may have been questionable. she doesnt even sound incomprehensible like paki chan, but oh well, lots of nonas just want to shit up the board with paranoid "everyone is ___ anon posts" instead of ignoring posts they don't like.

No. 220624

File: 1657476333648.png (18.95 KB, 522x251, FUjJG3caIAIJHX4.png)

I'm not even going to state my opinion on anything here, I just want to say that arguing over whether fujoshi are morally good or not is getting very repetitive because it's always the exact same arguments and examples that come up in several threads in both /ot/ and /m/ for years. It's not interesting anymore, please move on or bring up new information or opinions. There's a reason why anons are joking that one of you is paki-chan, it's because you all say the same things the same ways. Pic slightly related I guess.

No. 220625

File: 1657477526560.jpg (55.33 KB, 640x640, 1657382662073.jpg)

rape can be genuinely hot when it's happening to a man. don't care if it's "scrotey" to admit. I primarily only find depictions of female rape questionable. men in pain and male desperation, suffering, death, sickness, and illness in general are all femgaze friendly themes. many women love to see it deep down, be it subconsciously or not. m-muh morality won't change that. fiction is fiction, and women are under no obligation to limit themselves to enjoying only the most morally pure radfem approved subject matter so that we can all circlejerk over how much better we are than men. we aren't the ones actually raping, murdering, torturing, or otherwise abusing men, nor are we funding their abuse. not even in the fiction. the same cannot be said in reverse. that's all that matters.

No. 220627

File: 1657477685201.gif (1.89 MB, 500x281, I4IH.gif)

All of Jamie and Claire's wedding night scenes from Season 1, Episode 7 of Outlander. We actually discussed this when it aired in one of my women's lit courses in university as being a good example of the female gaze. It's an older, previously married woman with a younger (virgin) man getting it on without any weird porny tropes. The camera focuses on Jamie's body just as much as Claire's and there are lots of shots of his face while they're having sex. The entire episode is very sweet imo.

No. 220628

based trans exclusionary radical fujoshi

No. 220635

This is actually true, especially the suffering/sickness/pain part. I agree with the rape too, personally.
Nobody fucking mentioned ABO, schizo

No. 220636

I don't know what to say other than… no, they're not. they are males meant to be perceived by the reader as males being abused by other males. "getting a taste of their own medicine" in a way.

No. 220637

>yout dumb cooomerass is so utterly admit it
ok paki-chan let's get you to bed

No. 220638

File: 1657478730158.jpg (87.17 KB, 564x804, c41ad4e433f7df54b36161b19a4417…)

Dumb comment. If the man is being assaulted by a female character, is he still a "psuedo-female"?
This makes me think of whump, like >>219640 brought up. Being injured etc makes a man vulnerable and I think male vulnerability is a big female gaze thing.

No. 220641

No, they don't joke about Paki-chan because they sound similar but because one of the anti-fujo spergs was revealed to be her.

>there are lots of shots of his face while they're having sex
Tbh this is so uncommon and I'm so not used to seeing it, that it becomes too much for me (in a good way; I blush and have to cover my eyes because I get embarrassed at how sexy it is)


I wish we could discuss these things seriously and from a neutral perspective without accusing fujos of being morally evil, pornsick coomer pedophiles, because some of these things are true (for example the fact that yaoi boys very clearly act more feminine than real men and in some cases are basically female in terms of behavior and external looks, not to mention the uke-seme dynamic often reflecting traditional female-male relationships), but the more your retarded ass attacks fujos using these analyses the less we'll be able to discuss them in a nuanced way because fujos will get defensive and deny all of these things as well and the whole discussion becomes a fucking incomprehensible mess.

No. 220643

>basically female in terms of behavior and external looks
But where? Why is their behavior basically female? Is it not female-gaze to be into men that aren't hyper-masculine? Do a lot of women really want a man who is like "GET OUT OF THE WAY, THE GAME IS ON. GET ME A BEER." or like "IM GOING OUT WITH MY BUDDIES AT THE BAR TO DRINK." or like "LEAVE ME ALONE IM GAMING IN MY MAN CAVE BRAP"
I dunno I feel like most yaoi shit the men aren't 'basically females' but are just emotionally intelligent and handsome.

No. 220645

>because one of the anti-fujo spergs was revealed to be her.
No, I get that I saw her posts where she basically outed herself just a few days ago, it's just that all the anti-fujoshi spergs, Paki-chan included, say the exact same things all the time everywhere.

No. 220647

Apparently submission = female

No. 220648

The uke is often girly and in the relationship he clearly takes the role of "woman", while the more traditionally masculine, sexually aggressive and handsome seme (who can also be somewhat feminine and is rarely like a real man like the one you describe) takes the role of "man". Or at least, that's how it used to be until around the early 2000s. Are you really this dense or just being intentionally disingenuous?

No. 220649

What you're describing though is just a woman's fantasy of gay sex between one more effeminate man and another more masculine man, I don't see the issue. It's female-gaze whether you personally like it or not. Fujos don't self-insert. What about women who feel attracted to the uke?

No. 220650

I think that's just you equating acting like a real human bean with acting feminine. in fiction a man can act like a human with complex thoughts and emotions and still be a man. emotional retardation isn't an essential part of being a male though it is a common one IRL. it's unattractive so of course it doesn't make it into fantasies. it applies to het romance written by women as well. their love interests don't act any more like real men than the BL ones do.


No. 220655

it's common for both sexes to struggle to accurately depict the opposite sex because they simply don't know what it's like to be a member of that sex. I don't think it's very deep.

No. 220661

File: 1657482508526.jpg (74.87 KB, 1280x771, 2313123_JDJ.jpg)

That pic is the complete oposite of the female gaze, it's actualy the male gaze applied to another male. The female gaze should be sensual and soulful. Female gaze erotization cannot exist without humanizing the subject being watched.

No. 220662

File: 1657482606996.jpg (107.72 KB, 740x594, RiverPhoenix.jpg)

No. 220663

File: 1657482713653.jpg (111.36 KB, 732x500, KNJKDN_88.jpg)

No. 220664

Holy fucking shit, it's impossible to have a serious conversation about this with someone who lacks so much reading comprehension. When did I say any of that? Stop putting words in my mouth. Also there it is again, you keep getting defensive, this time I didn't even say that fujos self-insert (as if that were a bad thing at all).
>What about women who feel attracted to the uke?
It's not impossible to find the character you relate to attractive, and it's not impossible for women to relate more strongly to or self-insert as the seme either (probably an indication of being GNC, if anything). None of this contradicts what I said.

Nowhere in my post did I mention emotional intelligence. That's a good thing that obviously women are going to want in their partners and it (shouldn't) have anything to do with one's sex (meaning that it shouldn't be seen as an exclusively female thing, but alas, most moids irl are deficient in it).
What I'm talking about is the uke's looks (small, pale, younger, big eyes, soft and youthful features, long eyelashes, sometimes indistinguishable from the way the artist draws young women), and his role (being the submissive one in bed is part of it but not everything; he's the one being pursued or even raped by the more masculine one, sometimes he even acts as a housewife who cooks and cleans for the other or has some other stereotypically female role, like a prostitute)
Meanwhile the seme both looks noticeably more masculine (the opposite of the uke) and often has some traditionally masculine role/profession, such as being a CEO or having some other position of power.
But none of this means that the classic uke is literally female, you can still see him as male (in f you can choose to focus completely on his masculinity and ignore the rest) but in essence he fits a traditional female role as seen by society. Is that so hard to accept?

And again, I'm mostly talking about pre-2010 media. Subversions of this dynamic (where the bigger and more masculine guy is the sexually submissive one, or they're both roughly the same in terms of masculinity/femininity) are more common now.
You have to be literally blind (or just strongly in denial) if you don't see it or find it impossible to believe that BL uke and seme reflected gender roles for women and men respectively for a long time before it started to be widely seen as cliche. It was also very common in yaoi ships to "twinkify" (make even more delicate/feminine) the character that the fandom decided was the submissive one, while the "masculine" qualities of the seme were amplified. Countless jokes about the uke being basically a girl and the seme being ridiculously "masculine" (yaoi hands, rape, etc.) were made by fujos back in the day.

Also I never even implied that yaoi is not female gaze or that I don't like it. If you'd actually read my posts you'd realize that. Not every analysis of this kind is meant to condemn or attack.

No. 220666

File: 1657483020361.jpg (229.67 KB, 736x817, Jljhfe_899.jpg)

Just to give a few examples. The male gaze cut the subject into pieces that can be eroticized even as dismembered parts, you see it especilly in movies when the camera pans over a woman's body, sometimes decapitating her. It's not about her as a person, her humanity is secondary. The female gaze is not just switching things around by watching a man as a sexually attractive object just like men do to us.

No. 220667

>The female gaze should be sensual and soulful.
It shouldn't be anything. It's about how women percieve the world and how we portray it in media. Our gaze doesn't have to follow a certain rule.
I agree that women tend to look at people as actual people though, not things, unlike scrotes.

No. 220669

Just post a fucking example of the female-gaze you schizo

No. 220673

the characters are male for a reason nigga I don't even know what pre 2010 unironic nuclear family BL you're reading but the whole appeal is seeing a man be another man's bitch. if they wanted to see a woman get raped they would've been drawing that instead, japanese women are shameless. struggling to see these ukes as men for that reason alone is turbo autism.

No. 220676

It's honestly funny that all the fujohate spergs and paki-chan are unable to properly analyze why some women may be into yaoi or may be attracted by complicated themes (I mean, if you're not an autist it's easy to get, but we're on lolcow) and instead just ignore every single argument or point to post the same senseless scrotey word vomit over and over and over. Honestly at least paki-chan should be fucking banned because it's clear she's a degenerate.

No. 220678

File: 1657485469488.jpg (38.65 KB, 638x444, download (13).jpg)

In general, I find that male musicians tend to appeal to the female gaze quite often. Like the visual kei example that anon pointed out earlier. Or in the 80s, lots of musicians like pic related styled themselves in a way that I think is much more appealing to women than to men. I've seen it present from the 90s (Trent Reznor and Kurt Cobain maybe?) to the 2000s when My Chemical Romance had a majority female fanbase. Historically, male musicians (not just boy bands that are manufactured for women) have always been very popular with women and inspire a type of fanaticism that actors or athletes don't and I always wonder why that is. I think there is something in the way male musicians (not all, but at least quite a few) are presented that can really attract the female gaze and I wish more men would take the hint and stop trying to look like stereotypical, boring chads.

No. 220697

Agree wholeheartedly, it also fits into the whole hands-thing. Being a musician means you're good with your hands! The swiftness, especially.

No. 220704

i can't think of anything coherent to say but want to share something directed by a woman that is sexual (warning for kpop video)

No. 220705

The fujo sperging is ruining the BL thread, it drives me nuts

No. 220728

You're joking but for me it literally kind of is kek, something about the whole plot of the movie being about men who view themselves as firmly above nature being humbled by it and suffering until their arrogance is gone appeals to me. Also I find the intense reaction to the rape scene by male audiences to be interesting, it shows how much men aren't used to even conceptualizing the idea of being raped and how much it scares them to see it depicted in such a realistic manner.

No. 220735

Nah I just like seeing men suffer

No. 220741

Based and true.

No. 220743

male suffering IS feminist, kys. quit shitting up the thread.

No. 220748

>for the love of Artemis
You sound like a troon

No. 220754

>something about the whole plot of the movie being about men who view themselves as firmly above nature being humbled by it and suffering until their arrogance is gone appeals to me


This thread is all about the female gaze though? Whether you like it or not, a lot of women like seeing men suffer in fiction, no matter if they're fujos or femdomfags, while it makes males uncomfortable. Like another anon said earlier in the thread, we shouldn't avoid talking about controversial, taboo or morally questionable examples of the female gaze.

No. 220755

File: 1657524049690.png (151.17 KB, 550x818, 2011-12-02-sexy.png)

Another classic

No. 220763

"Normal women" (straight) also like sexy depictions of men and have kinks, retard. A lot of "normal" women also like seeing two handsome men kissing in movies.
Are you gonna call all the normie women who were into 50 Shades "porn addicts" too?
Also why are you shitting on fujos again all of a sudden? I thought you were talking about femdom earlier? Fuck off, you have nothing of worth to add to this thread, go sperg on /ot/

No. 220764

If I ask you, you'd answer that you'd like to be pleasured by Varg instead, and that's way worse than whatever fujos are into.

Every woman who isn't a perfect virgin tradwife simping for the big violent man is a "porn addict", I guess

No. 220774

That Batman makes me uncomfortable too.

No. 220780

Yeah me too, he needs nipples. Where are the nipples that should be poking through his outfit all sexily?
>If you ask average person if they'd like two handsome males to pleasure them, they'd almost always say yes
That sounds like pornaddiction too, normal sex should just be between a Varg and his 12-year old girlfriend right

No. 220782

File: 1657536797664.jpeg (167.45 KB, 684x1000, A54BD20F-9D6A-47CB-8013-33ECDD…)

I hope they dont mean the actor…?

No. 220790

that's crapper chan don't even bother kek

No. 220791

File: 1657539783862.jpg (163.5 KB, 1200x627, bridgerton-netflix-serie.jpg)

Does Bridgetorn fit the female gaze?

No. 220809

Over my many years in online spaces and fandom I've come to the conclusion that Fujos are retarded, and they are usually white women. White femoids ruin so many fanbases and online space with their vocal cancer.

I honestly think online female-only spaces would 70% better if we could remove the particular kind of white becky who never shuts the fuck up and attentionwhores and tries to spread her very white view of feminism everywhere. Fujos are retarded, and a lot of their posts just reek of white feminist energy and entitlement. Wish there was a way to filter you dumb cunts.

No. 220810

This website is one example. Most online spaces like this are run by white women for white women. And I'll probably get criticized and banned for pointing out this issue but white women really are a different breed and there is a reason why the term white feminism was coined.

No. 220813

Scrote alert.

No. 220814

Jfc, shut the fuck up paki-anon, or (c)rap-chan, nobody gives a fuck.

No. 220815

Yes, Becky. Call another woman a scrote because she's actually pointing about how cancerous a lot of white women are to other women in every online space. You're only a feminist when it's benefitting your victim complex. White women really aren't much better than moids to be honest. They are scared of anyone pointing it out.

I called you a femoid because some of you could pass for moids. Stop acting like such a piece of shit and maybe you won't get called that

No. 220816

I'm not whatever boogeyman you made up, I came here from CC because it's more active and I knew it was cancerous but it turns out even if you can escape coomer moids you stil have to put up with toxic BPD white beckys pushing their white feminist views onto everyone as if it applies to all women who weren't born into privilege or have the same experience as white women.

No. 220817

I just hope when society and the media stop focusing on troons and the narrative turns back to feminism, we can actually get somewhere and call out white feminism more. It's especially prevalent in online spaces which like I said are made for and by white women who like to pretend their views and experiences are the same as every other women.

No. 220819


I hope you're not referring to another woman like that, I'm pretty sure it's racist term. How would you like it if everyone started calling you Cracker-chan? Or something less cute like ages like milk-chan? Spoiled milk chan, perhaps?

No. 220820

I want paki-chan and (c)rap-chan to meet irl, fall in love, get married to each other and shit talk fujoshi and BL in the privacy of their house outside of lc. Please.

No. 220821

>t. literally ages like milk

No. 220822

I didn't even follow the whole derail, what or who does that even refer to? What does that mean?

No. 220823

It's a common belief that white women age like milk. It means they age very badly and quickly. Like how people say Asian women age really well or something.

Racist Beckys ITT larping as feminists (as lots of white women are known to do) referring to someone as "paki-chan" just because they're mad that she is "attacking" the moid obsession or something. Typical white feminist bs.

No. 220824

Becky fujoshits ITT seething about the truth KEK

No. 220825

holy shit where are the mods to escort this retard out. someone at least wake up the fujo spammers.

No. 220827

File: 1657547373259.jpg (52.76 KB, 650x638, 1656233547520.jpg)

This is not me,(you know the country name in south asia, I am not saying it cause I shall be accused of being a namefag) also please stop trolling, I do not condemn ever all white women
honestly fine with the term, though I'd rather be known as pothwar-chan, I hate pakistna and would rather be reffered to as my tribal group
lesbian romanticism is also feithsization moron, also she's in the UK(filled with pakistani's who wish to murder me) and I plan to go to America, how would that hook up make sense(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 220828

lol they're so fucking mad that their troon or Amber Heard-wannabe mod isn't working fast enough tonight. Probably got locked in Lane Bryant KEK

No. 220829

But I'm not white and given the comments I've received I'm not aging like milk at all (not yet at least) yet it doesn't prevent me from reading BL manga from time to time. And Paki-chan has always been called that, I don't think she ever complained. I mean, she could have done that long ago. And here we say "retard" and "fag" all the time, it's not meant to be taken personally. So I'm guessing you're (c)rap-chan? I have a hard time keeping up with everyone here, are you the anon who was sperging once that she didn't like Merlin/Arthur in that BBC show because your canon Black self insert love interest was treated badly in fanfiction, or was it someone else?

No. 220830

It would make sense in a LDR I suppose. But I'm joking, don't actually get married just because I made a silly joke some anon made on an imageboard.

No. 220831

it's not one of the namefags idiota it's some moid from CC
now stop replying to him until th mods wake up

No. 220833

My bad, sorry.

No. 220834

File: 1657547973787.jpg (192.47 KB, 600x960, 20220613_185132.jpg)

lesson of the day is disregard everything an antifujo anon has to say because they're either schizophrenics coping with their own mentall illness by projecting more mentall illnesses onto normal people or straight up scrotes

No. 220836

File: 1657548004320.jpg (58.02 KB, 523x680, 20220613_185121.jpg)

No. 220838

File: 1657548125031.jpg (179.24 KB, 1024x725, 20220613_185123.jpg)


No. 220839

>here, we act like incel, racist moids all the time
>it's okay because no one says anything
Sis, your dignity? Assuming you ever had any…
>t. seething troon or moid
>aging like milk at the speed of light
>also a pedophile
You really might as well be a moid at this point.

No. 220840

paki-chan here and I hope your shut the hell up, I strongly condone racism against every race(except arab men, hate anything to do with the culture created by Satan himself)
stop your porn addiction and leave this thread, for the love of God

this was supposed to fun and interesting thread, but you)1) male trollers (2)porn addicted fujos (3)generals trolls ruined it, why can't you post actual attractive men pleasuring women, what is wrong or complex with that(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 220841

>I strongly condone racism.
You can't be racist against white people.

No. 220842

Let it go, wait until everyone in that thread calms down or the thread will get even worse.

No. 220843

Don't let Becky see this.

No. 220844

File: 1657548445136.jpg (87.27 KB, 600x800, 20220613_185137.jpg)


No. 220845

male suffering is definitely female gaze though, almost indisputably. Also yaoi is, get over it. I don’t get how it’s a white woman thing or that anyone itt can’t just not give a shit, it is all preferences anyway. Did the race spergs give their own examples of the female gaze? Or are they just going to camp out and argue against everyone else’s examples?

No. 220847

File: 1657548620547.jpg (913.96 KB, 2506x2287, 20211227_111116.jpg)

mooooods, gibe nonnie miwkies

No. 220848

You're correct imo but right now I think we have a moid infestation instead of just the same anons giving the same arguments as in the other threads.

No. 220849

yaoi is not female gaze, and fujoshi are probably one of the most cancerous and misogynist part of any fanbase. White women and troons seem to try and monopolize or take over any fanbase they enter and most yaoi fans tend to be white women in the West. It's more about the behavior and the fans than the thing itself. I think yaoi can be female gazey but it very rarely ever is. And the talking points I've seen spewed in this thread do reek of white feminism and are a disaster.

I'm glad to see it's been shit on numerous times in this thread seeing as the fujoshits already have several boogeymans. Fujoshi will continue to be ostracized and critized, as they should be. Beckys can keep seething, they can't do anything about it.

No. 220850

>fujopedo actually posted what looks like adults for once
Did it hurt?

No. 220851

File: 1657548988196.jpg (100.93 KB, 1024x768, 20220613_185138.jpg)


No. 220853

its not a white woman phenomenon, its more of a pick me cuck queen attitude, it started and is most popular with Japanese women, who are turbo pick me's
being a porn addict is not funny, why not post actual attractive men instead of sexulized boys kissing each other(I know you cannot comprehend female pleasure)

No. 220854

>mooooods, gibe nonnie miwkies
I honestly think this is a troon. I've never met an actual female that types like this.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if most of the so-called "fujos" in these threads were actually just racist pedo troon/moids. Imagine allying yourself with that. Can't be me.

No. 220856

>"most yaoi fans tend to be white women in the West."
>she never went to an anime focused con
>she never saw western non-white costumers buying BL in Ikebukuro's Animate and Mandarake
>she bases her incorrect argument on twitter
Opinion discarded.

No. 220857

The only troons who give enough of a shit to actually be into BL are fakebois. MTFs are horrible at pretending to be into that kind of stuff.

No. 220858

>it started with Japanese women, so it's not mostly a white women thing in the West
>muh yaoi conventions
lol nice try, troon. Probably a weeb moid larping as a woman. And yes, the topic was about online spaces, try to keep up and read something other than pedo fujo doujins or hetero-romance hating manifestos on whatever groomer community you frequent

No. 220859

You/it types like a moid/troon. Even if it's a female, I guess this just further proves that fujopedos aren't that far away from actual troons and moids in the way they behave and the deranged cancer they post.

No. 220861

The fujos and fujo-defenders give off major moid/troon energy in these threads. I always see troon and moids trying to push the "haha we just type like moids just because ;)" narrative to try and prevent others from calling them out, but just so you know, you will never pass, even online. Everyone can tell.

No. 220862

File: 1657549798371.gif (Spoiler Image, 192.83 KB, 300x250, 91244568-24.gif)




No. 220863

Who is you? You're replying to me but I'm not the sperg posting pics, and I'm not the sperg spamming the word fujopedo either.

Anime cons are full of the people you see posting online so it counts. The only real difference is that irl you can physically see that many of the fujoshi buying BL manga aren't white. That's why I brought that up. You really think online fans of anything are complete shut ins?

No. 220865

Please mods end this madness, you have one stupid LARPing moid and porn addict fujo who will come out as a transman by years end, END THIS PLEASE
yes many are asian, still porn addiced women who require help

No. 220867

>t. moid who can't read or stay on topic, unsurprisingly
>everyone who posts online goes to conventions
>implying there are more fujo fans at conventions than there are online
>not just a moid, but also retarded
Many such cases.

No. 220868

File: 1657550234930.jpg (62.4 KB, 564x564, get in bitches.jpg)

We really can't have nice threads without the ever-old and ever-boring infighting about gay sexual relations in fucking comics and/or in animation. Well, it was a fun thread while it lasted

…oh and also men's eyes are wonderful and I wish they would be portrayed in a nicer way. The 'hunter eyes' are boring.

No. 220869


is yuri then female gazey or do you just think all women who like objectifying moids, are on the same lvl as weirdo transbians and dude bros who consooome lesbian porn?
also nonny, do u think every fujo are shota obsessed freakoids? your sample size is neglectful.

No. 220870

>fujopedo white women will never know peace about their cancerous fetish and will always be ostracized and criticized for it

No. 220871

mean to reply to
Beckys keep seething.

No. 220872

Mods need to stop fucking and hellban that retard. I refuse to believe they're even smart enough to evade one since they aren't smart enough to sage or not use the thread like a fucking chatroom. Range ban if you have to, the reeing about fujos is shitting up all of /m/ and /ot/, and all it takes to end it is banning the 2 spergs behind it.

No. 220873

>yaoi is not female gaze
It is made by and consumed by women, thus it is the female-gaze at least for some (a lot) of women.
>white women and troons take over fanbases
>white women in the west like yaoi the most
>muh white feminism
gr8 b8 m8
Also, post your fucking examples of female-gaze you retard, you still haven't, have you?

No. 220874

it's croquette shit guaranteed

No. 220877

>t. seeething fujoshit mad her shitty fetish will never be accepted anywhere
lol even in Japan they ostracize them, as they should.
>t. seething racist moid
You will never pass.

No. 220878

>They should just ban fujoshit altogether
I agree. Especially because of of your fujo-defending talking points are moid-tier and misogynistic, anyway.

No. 220879

I'm finally accused of being a moid on lolcow dot farm, I feel like I should make a speech to thank everyone for their support like in the Oscars ceremony now.

No. 220880

No one cares, troon.

No. 220881

I don't get why this thread had to be colonized into a second fujo thread when you already have your own thread. Reducing female gaze discussion to boylove porn is so fucking typical of you.

No. 220882

What makes you think I'm a troon or a regular guy? You mentioned how I typed but I don't see it, I'm just ESL. I'm a real woman but think whatever you want.

No. 220884

Yeah, this is why fujoshit should be altogether banned. It's just a cancerous, misognyistic minority in the first place.

No. 220885

learn to sage your shit spergchan
hating women wont make moids want to make you their wifey

No. 220886

>t. seething fujotroon
hating women won't cure your obvious insecurity

No. 220887

just quit replying to that freak. they'll get hellbanned in a few hours, wait it out.

No. 220893

>scared off all the misogynist fujotroons in only two hours
Based anti-fujo Stacy.

No. 220894

File: 1657554143131.png (1.38 MB, 1244x1331, bpdmanlet.png)

Personally, I think one of the core elements of the (hetero/bi) female gaze such as Howl's Moving Castle and such is how the moids are not portrayed disgusting rape apes even if rape/violence does occur. You can always see a difference between how women and men portray sexual violence (unless the woman is a turbo pick me I guess), women will focus mostly on the mental side of it and its consequences almost as if trying to disconnect from it as a cope. Furthermore, the male perpetrator is often portrayed as a tragic figure and there can be just as much focus on his emotions and 'pain' regarding what happened which once again seems like some sort of way to cope by romanticizing the abuser and making them seem less monstrous. A beauty and the beast kind of deal (which in itself is a very female gazey piece of literature too, especially compared to fairytales written by men)

No. 220895

Anyway I think in some way, monsters are female-gazey ie monsterfucking thread and like, beauty and the beast (monsters don’t have to necessarily be sexual to be female gaze), I think it’s the idea that a man can be scary or inhuman but reserve his kindness and humanity for a woman/women. Thoughts?

No. 220897

File: 1657554566832.jpeg (1.83 MB, 2400x3300, 63E80B3E-9E8C-4D92-AFB2-C8512C…)

What’s the opinion on the obsessions with romanticizing fictional serial killer monsters?

No. 220901

How do you even fall for this bait.

No. 220904

File: 1657555849415.jpg (145.83 KB, 1834x471, The shape.jpg)

depends on the monster though, Michael Myers is a canonically supposed to have an angelic and beautiful face behind his mask while Jason is supposed to have a deformed monster face, but I have my own theory of why slasher villains seem to have garnered female audience in the past few years, the thing about slashers (with exceptions like Chucky and Freddy) is that they are often the peak of masculinity but also never explicitly sexual, they are impossibly buff and tall killing machines with no emotion or personality, but they are never rapists(often times they kill rapists) they can't be sexist or racist, they are essentially blank slates and you can apply whatever personality you want for them to suit

No. 220906

File: 1657555986325.png (672.62 KB, 600x892, kca84qrp2hz61.png)

Just because I was aware of this version as a counter point.

No. 220907

this being made by a man too makes me want to kms

No. 220908

jojo does have an artstyle that appeals to both men and women, but something truly female gaze will end up appealing to more women than men. A lot of the exaggerated muscularity and proportions of the characters don't appeal to many women.

No. 220909

File: 1657556362330.jpeg (259.33 KB, 1242x1047, E16A623D-3DBF-4B65-AC1B-B67B8D…)

I think it happens because of the suspension bridge effect, then the brain starts creating stories about the bad guys forgiving us, wanting us, falling in love with us, and the cute fanarts just start happening.
The fact that they're fictional also means that we can control them, if we want to, a murderer in a fantasy maybe wasn't a murderer at all, maybe he was just a weird guy wearing a mask and scaring people around like in a Scooby-doo episode and they all got lost but came back later on.
Maybe he's just a guy who always wears a mask, works at a flower shop and helps at a campsite on summer because he likes to make sure everyone is doing okay.
There's so many possibilities, unlike with disgusting 3DPDG moids, which is something that would've been brought up at some point, that murder people just because, they are 100% human, not monsters, they wouldn't have been alienated by society if they would've just gotten a fucking grip and stopped hating innocent people for the shit they did to themselves, which makes the irl serial killer lovers just mentally ill women that seriously need psychiatric help because at that point psychological help isn't enough.

No. 220910

File: 1657556621853.png (41.65 KB, 580x770, square-enix-tones-down-its-too…)

kek the delusion. Picrel is a male character with revealing clothes and obvious female gaze design elements over which scrotes threw actual screaming crying fits over because they were psychologically disturbed at seeing a single male character that was just as sexualized as the average female character. The mantrum was so intense that square enix changed his outfit to look less revealing

No. 220912

File: 1657556909030.png (1.62 MB, 731x940, antonio lopez.png)

The appeal to both men and women in jojo can be explained by the fact that many jojo designs were inspired by the art of Antonio Lopez, a gay fashion illustrator

No. 220913

fucking ot but this is why comphet can be a thing too, like you're anxious or fearful with men and your 2 braincells tries to turn it into romantic or sexual attraction

No. 220915

Jojo style is influenced by Hokuto no Ken and later mostly by fashion magazines and some fashion artists. It's shonen created by a man (who likes drawing titty btw, it's obvious in Jojolion). It's not the same as women drawing bishiefied fanart of "manly characters" that moids worship. kek whoever made this edit is a retard. As if male nerds didn't blame women ("fujos") of ruining their anime when they have pretty male protagonists. Remember the huge tantrum that /a/ threw when Free! was announced?

No. 220917

I don't know about that. The person who came up with the term wasn't even a lesbian and the one who made the doc is a self-admitted bisexual. Most examples of comphet I hear just sounds like regular bisexuality.

No. 220919

File: 1657558355994.gif (976.26 KB, 450x253, haru.gif)

Free! is such a great example of the female gaze

No. 220929

Because it is. The doc and comphet largely just describe bi-cycling. There are women who do experience a sort of comphet if they're from a severely homophobic country and have literally no gay role models in life but almost nobody has anything like comphet in the west, besides severely controlling households. Even then it's not that they had normal, loving experiences with men, it's that they did what their society told them they have to do and felt suicidal/miserable during it.

At any rate it's not comphet if you've willingly been with or wanted a man, ever. It's only bisexuals (who may prefer women still) that can experience positive sexual encounters with the opposite sex. I'm so tired of having to clear this up to confused heteros and bis lol

No. 220946

Nah. It is female gaze.

No. 220957

File: 1657566858846.gif (633.69 KB, 498x175, LqWCZBi.gif)

bridgerton is very female gazey, though it's based on a different series i think anything jane austen adjacent is female gazey.
not just awooga sexy man but also embracing emotion and femininity instead of treating it as inferior

No. 220970

girls needs snacks nonny

No. 220973

it's based off of a romance novel series, so i should hope so. i read the series and it's standard fare for the genre with a healthy sprinkling of fun tropes.
>jane austen adjacent is female gazey
i find this description funny but it is true austen's work inspired much in the historical romance genre. sometimes these books, like newer romance novels can fall into glorifying BDSM and rough sex inspired by Fifty Shades of Grey (and porn) but much of it is written and read by older women not into that crap.

No. 220985

not only is this thread already ruined by fujos and fujospergs but now this every woman is a lesbian crap

No. 220990

No. 221024

File: 1657597226653.jpg (521.53 KB, 1920x2198, NMKCM2w.jpg)

>Remember the huge tantrum that /a/ threw when Free! was announced?
Ah what a time to celebrate. Moe girls studio making hot swimming guys an actual anime.


I didn't really think too much of the chins but I think it would be more female gazey if they have nipples.

No. 221039

Nothing will ever top Free! and the amount of seething tears it made incels shed.

No. 221046

Yuri on Ica nearly reached that level though.

No. 221076

Yeah, that was good too. Though we're not going to have another one like those I believe. Anime has been shit for years and filled with coomer moe loli bullshit. Almost nothing for women.

No. 221080

As a Swede, I wish I could experience some yuri on Ica

No. 221091

What does that mean? Please don't laugh at my typo.

No. 221104

I'm laughing because Ica is a very common supermarket chain

No. 221206

File: 1657650477274.jpg (44.33 KB, 400x363, WGS2tbZ.jpg)

I know most of the discourse in this thread is about sexualization but is there such a thing as a platonic female gaze. I don't think Moomin or Studio Ghibli is sexualized but they feel like the female gaze
i think that anon was just saying their own experiance

No. 221221

File: 1657656011815.jpg (124.17 KB, 853x1200, Cleo_from_5_to_7-937846899-lar…)

In my opinion this is the movie that represents best the female gaze, as it was directed and written by a woman, and features a woman's inner thoughts as well as a woman's POV

No. 221228

Maybe I'm just horny but this is hot

No. 221235

Platonic relationships in general are female gazey. Men can’t comprehend the idea of being close with and loving someone outside of romantic/sexual context.

No. 221336

File: 1657678798765.jpg (654.48 KB, 1300x758, 82783034_p0.jpg)

as a men's dress shoe fetishist I can confirm it is

No. 221580

Can someone post that pic of a guy pushing another guy's face into cake? You know the one. Thx

No. 221691

File: 1657792820042.jpg (94.26 KB, 1024x770, 38015_1.8.jpg)

I KNOW I will get shat on for this since it's Machine Gun Kelly after all… But this photo from a movie starring him (Taurus) feels really female-gazey to me. The tragic J-RPG protagonist look, the vulnerability, the hands, the somber mood… I know everything here triggers my gaze.
I kind of want to watch the film now, tbh.

No. 221709

File: 1657802849683.jpg (120.4 KB, 800x540, cake.jpg)

Here you go nonnie

No. 221754

I 100% agree, anon. You nailed it with the JRPG comparison. Unfortunately personality wise he seems to be a scrote of the highest order.

No. 221756

File: 1657812534804.gif (2.96 MB, 400x188, f8924f5966483e65dcd885b332dafa…)

i do think that some asian dramas do come close to being female gazey, with the camera panning up and down on well groomed pretty guys and women staring at them (so the opposite of the "sexy chick walks by a group of workers and they all drool"-trope) but then they often ruin it by having the girls look dumb or making a joke out of themselves by being so head over heels

No. 221808

>all the normie women who were into 50 Shades "porn addicts" too
they're not porn addicts, but 50 shades of grey ushered more porn-induced brainrot and BDSM crap into the romance novel genre and it does suck. women trying to romanticize abusive dynamics is part of the romance novel's history, but as a trend it was going away and now with the rise of "dark romances" like this it's coming back. I see it more than anything as a sign that sexual shame (where rapist love interest trope started from) is coming back en masse due to internalized misogyny and failure of sex positivity movement.

No. 221813

Whoa that belly.
Anon please tell me what this is from.

No. 221838

File: 1657822265330.jpg (129.72 KB, 702x800, T8ZxiKl.jpg)

this painting reminds me of old romance covers. what are nonnies thoughts on those?
50 shades was just a mainstream version of the brainrot found in fanfiction for decades. 50 shades was originally a fanfic after all. but to be honest i think gothic writers like anne rice put the groundwork for 50 shades.
anne rice's erotica is freakier than anything the twilight smut writers could come up with.

No. 221857

I suppose it helps that the average viewer of TV dramas in east asian countries are middle aged women

No. 221888

As someone who has watched a lot of Asian dramas (and from different countries) I agree. Of course I think a big part of it is that women are the intended audience so it seems obvious that they would include stuff like that, but then again I don't think I've seen anything like that in American stuff so maybe it's not that obvious. I wish there was stuff like this in American media, that would be so based and I'd love to see the seething from men kek
>but 50 shades of grey ushered more porn-induced brainrot and BDSM crap into the romance novel genre and it does suck
Yeah I really hate that (as someone who's into romance novels). I'd say that stuff is the minority of what's coming out, but it's still really irritating, especially if you happen to start reading a book and you find out that it's a BDSM book and you didn't know about it beforehand. Like not too long ago I checked out a book that I saw had a lot of hype and it was Greek Mythology inspired (which is what drew me to it in the first place since I love that shit), but after I started reading I found out that it was BDSM and I immediately dropped it. But as for dark romances, it is a bit concerning how much they're growing in popularity, especially with the amount of teen girls on Tiktok for instance who shill it, I mean I assume that anyone reading dark romances knows that it's just fiction and not something to aspire to, but idk.
>I see it more than anything as a sign that sexual shame is coming back en masse due to internalized misogyny and failure of sex positivity movement
huh that's an interesting theory, honestly you may be right, considering how dark romance tends to be more popular with younger women and teen girls (who are the ones being failed by the sex positivity movement) from what I've seen.
Old romance covers are so beautiful, it's sad that those illustrated book covers aren't a thing anymore. I would argue that they are female gaze, as well as romance books in general since they're by women for women.

No. 221894

I see it, the tragic pose, like Jesus nailed to the cross (which is also very female-gazey)

No. 221905

File: 1657831735149.jpeg (72.36 KB, 531x748, 5513FD79-B6E8-4F87-90C6-454C00…)

Old painted romance covers are lovely, it's a shame current historical covers are often awkward photos. Current trend of illustrated covers like picrel are cute but the lush paintings are missed! And I'm not as familiar with Rice's body of work and influence, and have been avoiding because some of the descriptions of her book plots sound heinous and romanticizing terrible situations.

No. 221906

File: 1657831909063.gif (2.54 MB, 500x326, ezgif-3-22384e6318.gif)

it's called go princess go
the same actor has another fun drama in which he's a pretty dancing prince while his wife is a general

i don't quite understand why that would help?

No. 221908

File: 1657832040738.jpeg (394.15 KB, 750x533, 302A90C2-CE28-436C-8414-96B5A3…)

Many books fall between the lines of clearly BDSM and not-BDSM books, into this murky category that spawned the term "dark romance" and seeing those types of scenes pop up is annoying. I am a completionist at heart and still end up finishing kek.
>I assume that anyone reading dark romances knows that it's just fiction and not something to aspire to
There is the real effect of girls and women romanticizing abusive relationships and BDSM because of this content, but I think the main effect is on how reinforce their view of themselves as passive, self-objectifying, and dissociating during sex.
>dark romance tends to be more popular with younger women and teen girls (who are the ones being failed by the sex positivity movement) from what I've seen
I think plenty of older women read and write this content too, they just talk about it less or in different spaces. At least being older should be able to tell reality and fiction apart better and men will be less porn-brained than younger generations. There are a few nonfiction books on romance novel history, Beyond Heaving Bosoms includes discussion on the topic of rapist heroes. I like to read historical romance and there's still plenty of them, so sexual shame looks to be a constant amongst old and younger generations unfortunately.

No. 221911

those cheap erotic historic romance novels are probably the most female gaze you can get
written by older ladies for older ladies, with some young long haired beau in a ripped open white shirt on the cover and then 100 pages of describing his sexy body and gigantic manhood kek

No. 221970

NTA but what are your thoughts on stuff like Sadistic Beauty? When I read it I was (to my surprise) surprised to see that the protagonist is almost always the dominant one and in fact rapes one of her love interests. It was a refreshing change for sure, to see such a sexually liberated female protagonist (who does what she wants and with whom she wants) in a comic for women, and the only person who shames her for that is the "villain", her narcissistic ex-boyfriend who ends up poor and miserable at the end and suffers throughout most of the story, he's punished for it and his past abuse of the MC while she gets to live happily ever after with one of her partners. I see it as the opposite of this dark romance you're talking about, although it still has a lot of BDSM shit in it.

No. 222053

I haven't read it, but in general femdom exists as a novelty in the wider realm of BDSM and even female-oriented sexual content. It being viewed by men (and women) as special or different, only reifies women being submissive and men being in power as the norm (I hope that makes sense). Not to mention that it is (near) impossible to escape male gaze, in which femdom is the fetishization and dismissal of women's anger towards men. Femdom is still women being invested in the sexualizing of power dynamics and violence which is at heart of BDSM. I don't have extreme criticism towards women enjoying it, and like following the femdom thread here myself. Sadistic Beauty sounds like a type of revenge type of story, which is a trope in romance content I like too. I didn't know it was done, I'll check it out in the future.
> I see it as the opposite of this dark romance you're talking about, although it still has a lot of BDSM shit in it.
I can see why, dark romance involves the man grovelling (to some degree) and redeeming himself in eyes of protagonist so they can have their "happy ending".

No. 222603

File: 1658077664410.jpg (82.94 KB, 646x364, they don't get it.jpg)

me explaining how my favourite sausage fest action games are totally female gaze

No. 222604

MGS or Yakuza?

No. 222605

mgs? bad joke

No. 222618

>she didn't listen to the MGS Peace Walker drama CD where Big Boss and Kaz do gay things in the sauna for the female audience

No. 222619

File: 1658081558544.jpg (Spoiler Image, 468.88 KB, 1080x2033, IMG_20220717_130534.jpg)

I only read an episode, but I remember that I stopped because it felt like a scrote's fantasy. Why would I feel attracted to a Pervy loser anyways? Maybe it's just me tho kek

No. 222625

That's so fucking weird, so they're ok with their favorite boy being violently raped and almost murdered by another moid who's insane (so far, understandable), but if a woman (the protagonist) hurts him instead, as revenge for how horribly he treated her in the past and in the present, it's suddenly unacceptable? Why are women held to those standards even in fiction and not men? It's ridiculous.

No. 222627

No. 222628

Men do not understand MGS. Not even Kojima understands MGS.

No. 222632

Based. I am obsessed with MGS4 Raiden. The men in MGS are all of Kojima's wild fantasizes and you can't convince me otherwise. Why else would he perfect Snake's ass?

No. 222633

The Free! drama made so many moids seethe. I love Free! and am blessed it came out just to piss off men. Even though it ended up being surprisingly good.. I like Makoto.

No. 222634

Such a blessed Miyavi era. Yeah, a ton of jrock bands were majority female fanbase. I think only Dir en grey was evenly matched gender fanbase.
I too always thought vk and early jrock was female gazey. They were like host boys, but only played music to impress women for their money.

No. 222637

Season 1 is okay, season 2 is unironically one of my favorite animes.

No. 222638

Kojima is definitely not straight. Still not sure whether he actually is a bisexual misogynist coomer or a homosexual who based his female characters on what he personally thought actual bi/het male coomers would find attractive.

No. 222640

Nottu this shitto again

No. 222641

He did say that he made his ass perfect in MGS2 and created Raiden for the girls, but that weird romance shit between Snake and Ocelot in MGS3? He's 100% a fudanshi you can't convince me otherwise.

No. 222645


No. 222646

i like them as a ship, but i fucking hated watching the gross rapey scenes with quiet. ground zero was hellish too. i can't stand kojima

No. 222649

that's because Kojima is a pretentious retard who does not understand what MGS is actually about.

No. 222651

Please enlighten us on what MGS is actually about.

No. 222652

File: 1658088927653.jpg (31.07 KB, 640x325, HIDEOGETOUT.jpg)

And then he put himself in the game? He's definitely got some fantasy shit going on.

No. 222654

File: 1658089016238.jpeg (118.66 KB, 913x1182, D1Z02AmXgAEL7gy.jpeg)

No. 222661

NTA but Kojima didn't write the first three MGS games alone. I think most of the writing work was done by Tomokazu Fukushima.

No. 222667

File: 1658093547552.jpg (221.09 KB, 1152x1124, 12526266474.jpg)

literally me but i am in general obsessed with raiden. i still have the delusional hope that one day mgr2 is announced

No. 222669

Wasn't mgs3 ass perfected by Kojima? He did well

No. 222673

Naked Snake is flat as fuck in MGS3, it's Solid Snake in MGS2 that has a juicy booty.

No. 222680

File: 1658098043077.jpeg (283.8 KB, 800x1102, D802E6F2-D8B9-4E95-8B6F-6DF5AD…)

Let me ask this, does he (and Owen Grey) make female gaze porn? Or is it still primarily for men to get off to?

No. 222683

>female gaze porn
I do not believe that exists or could exist at all.

No. 222705

Idk about female gaze but I know that a lot of women are into their videos

No. 222777

Yeah, that’s why I asked. I see women fawning over them and their videos on Tiktok all the time. And I will admit, I like Owen Grey’s solo stuff, so sensual and like he cares about the woman getting off more than himself. But he fucks troons, unfortunately. Small Hands does hardcore shit and a lot of stuff that looks like just your typical moid porn. I think women just like him because he’s attractive, not because the porn he does satisfies the women who star in them in any way.

No. 222779

File: 1658120960133.jpg (223.02 KB, 1000x1000, EZZ8Y8jUwAA0Uwo.jpg)


No. 222783

I think he just does it to fuck with the male players honestly, not to appeal to women (at least not initially) except for Raiden which was explicitly for the women and even then Kojima poked fun at him because "haha you guys hated that effeminate guy who replaced your favorite manly hero Solid Snake™"
So I think the main purpose of some of the "female gaze" stuff is actually just a joke.

No. 222787

I doubt it's just all jokes. As for Raiden, what I found funny is that he turned him into a cyborg in MGS4 to make him cooler for the male Western audience that called him lame and gay, but Raiden as a cyborg has high heels, long, pretty nails, eyeshadow, and he gets fanservicey yaoi like scene with Vamp and he gets brutalized by everyone. Kojima truly does not give a fuck. As for BB/Ocelot, he confirmed they were in love with each other in a MGS3 commentary or interview thing (I'll post the screenshot later I'm on mobile) and it was so subtle that only women truly noticed while male players were just talking about muh russian taunt despite Volgin and Eva being fucking exasperated that Ocelot has a teeange crush on BB and that BB is too stupid to notice. It's too plot relevant to be a joke even if Ocelot seems crazy and BB seems stupid and clueless. Don't get me started on the cigar scene at the very end of MGS5, it looked 100% serious and like it was straight out from a very old Hollywood romantic movie. Not saying it's female gaze or not, but shit like this is why many women like MGS. There's also the whole thing with the Boss and her backstory that seems to have resonated more with female fans than male fans but given how Kojima writes female characters it could just be that he's lucky or that it's from that other writer mentioned by another anon.

No. 222800

File: 1658130649349.png (325.29 KB, 637x619, 1581949731331.png)

I don't get those women's mentality. Why are they reading a femdom comic if they hate the concept? And why is it specifically wrong if a woman is the one being cruel to a man? I can only guess that it's some deep misogyny going on there.
I thought the only good parts of SB was when MC beat up the sexy asshole hunk sexily. Now that's the stuff I want to see: Buff men being submissive to women.

No. 222809

Girl, we are talking about a men salivating all over Mads Mikkelsen. No way he isn't bi/gay and everything homoerotic in MGS is muh Russian taunt.
I love Raiden so fucking much

No. 222813

It's fine to not be into hot buff sub men, although uncultured but would you read a femdom comic just to hate on the MC? That's the weird mentality we are discussing.

No. 222816

Fuck that, men need to suffer for once.

No. 222838

>those cheap erotic historic romance novels are probably the most female gaze you can get
written by older ladies for older ladies, with some young long haired beau in a ripped open white shirt on the cover and then 100 pages of describing his sexy body and gigantic manhood kek
but nonnies are calling them porn sick even though those novels were written before porn became mainstream. i think too many nonnies just find aspects of other women's desires cringeworthy and label is a porn sick (e.g. the fujo sperging) kek.
it's cringeworthy and embarrassing but it's weird to dismiss it as porn sick when men hate and ridicule it. Same with Stephanie Meyer's weird mormon vampire fantasies

No. 222845

>fujos are self hating porn addict who coom themselves into eventually mutilating their bodies to larp as ukes and modern kinkfags(subs and doms) either fetishize abusive dynamics or end up with some submale scrote who troons out in 4 years and demands to be called alice
Nice fanfiction, where can I read the rest?

No. 222848

Imo that's because they're brainwashed into thinking that BDSM is "actually pretty healthy with CoNsEnT, guys!!! Consent is important!! Always ask from consent!!" as if the same people weren't reading rape yaoi with the same character being abused even worse than he was during the femdom relationship. I think it's because BDSM/femdom is involved that they feel the need to police what the female protagonist does and defend their innocent cinnamon roll of a narcissistic boyfriend who treated MC like shit. Double standards just because BDSM is pushed in the mainstream as this totally not rapey thing but here it's used to rape.

No. 222850

NTA but see the FtM thread and the femdom thread. Also stop replying to her, you don't need to do that, just report and ignore.

No. 222851

File: 1658151362514.png (1.17 MB, 1069x1672, Mgs2raiden (1).png)

MY BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!
How is him fucking with male fans not based

No. 222853

First off, it's a woman's revenge fantasy, it doesn't matter if it's possible for a buff man to be submissive in the real world or not. Second, he doesn't pretend to like being dommed, on the contrary, he tries to hide it because of his massive ego, but deep down lets the MC hit him, humiliate him, use him to give her cunnilingus, and fuck him in the ass when she pleases because he still loves her and likes to be used by her but can't admit it. (And she doesn't love him back, she just uses him for sex and then leaves him when she realizes he hasn't changed, which kills him inside and leads into his captivity in the BL side story.)


If you don't know the context and don't read it then shut the fuck up

No. 222857

>again I haven't read the manhwa
Nta but stfu then.

I hate how policed women's sexual gaze is.
Can't like pretty half-naked guys, it makes moids jealous. Can't like femdom, it's omg "unrealistic". Can't like malexmale, it's pornaddicted.
I say, as long it's not harming women and children, go nuts.

No. 222858

She wants to beat her ex up and make him cry, and she does, then she dumps him. This is while she's fucking at least 3 other people. How is that not fulfilling her desires? You also could say that women in those romance novels are not truly fulfilling their own desires because a moid's ultimate goal is to fuck women, or that it's unrealistic because scrotes (especially those like the love interests in said novels) can't truly love and respect women enough to not see them as sex objects. The point is that it's a fucking fantasy.

No. 222861

File: 1658153491118.jpg (32 KB, 247x1200, bosselot confirmed.jpg)

Here's one of the evidence that BB/Ocelot is pretty much canon. It's from a MGS3 commentary thing, I don't remember the name of the website or blog where I found this but there are way more comments than that on many more scenes. It's the scene at the beginning where BB prevents Eva from shooting Ocelot while he's fleeing. Kojima confirms it was love at first sight and that their love is pure, and it's definitely not platonic given the words used.

The people in these threads are exceptions, a very loud minority. Fujoshi turning into fakebois to imitate their favorite anime or JRPG boys is a recent Western trend, you barely see it nearly as often in Asian fanbases. I'll stop now though, I don't want another derail either.

No. 222867

Thanks for that.

No. 222868

Delete this! Not everyone likes moid garbage like this

No. 222869

>I doubt it's just all jokes
Nonny that's literally what I said

No. 222870

Why the fuck are you bringing up assholes as a reply to my post? I'm not clicking that.
Seriously, so many retards itt.

No. 222876

It's the sperg, she's about to call us all coombrained and pornsick

No. 222883

>to compare those romance books to the shit we have these days is frankly offensive, fujos are self hating porn addict who coom themselves into eventually mutilating their bodies to larp as ukes and modern kinkfags(subs and doms) either fetishize abusive dynamics
In many early romance novels the male love interest raped the main character but she still ended up with her rapist. He was portrayed a fully mature man and she often as an innocent, borderline idiotic girl. It was probably due to sexual shame at the time and wasn't being romanticized like BDSM is today, but rape fantasies and sexual self-hate are old and merely have changed in form for the times we live in.

No. 222884

Having an asshole isn’t a submissive position, it isn’t even a position, it’s just a close up of an anus.

No. 222889

File: 1658157657749.jpg (144.1 KB, 1080x1102, D7xRoNbWkAAnt-z.jpg)

i think his obsession with mads is the same as guys into lifting who praise other dudes muscles in nearly erotic detail. plenty of women have a girlcrush, it's just rare to see a moid open about his mancrush.

No. 222900

Consider this for example: faceless/unrealistic humanoid female protagonist encounters a variety of smitten husbandos. Lots of innocently revealing or dirty shots. The scenes focus on the male characters blushing, worshiping, orgasming etc as they stimulate the protagonists exogenous zones. All the while using glistening, fleshy shots of the mans body parts heaving and getting into it. Good vibes, no sadism, plenty of male moaning.

Then, you could switch it around and have the protagonist or fucking alien monster tie up and contort a dude. You could have a lot of bodies pressed together struggling as he gives in to whatever’s going on. From here it depends on what the audience likes, lots of touching or movement of those preferred body parts. Female gaze porn would only require sexy characters and situations with nothing off putting to kill the mood. No shitty fake female responses or vocalisation and a forward protagonist that’s easy to imprint on.

No. 222913

Yes, we need more! It would be really easy to execute through artwork or animation and more ethical too. I’d like to see it.

No. 222919

File: 1658162333835.png (22.22 KB, 982x149, raiden.png)

Seeing >>222641 post reminded me that Kojima made Raiden specifically because of a female player letter to him! True female gaze here kek

No. 222924

File: 1658164083268.jpg (144.61 KB, 939x645, 12`12`2.jpg)

Ultimately I think the one thing that this thread has proven is that there is no single female gaze, people can like different things, I like seeing hot guys being stoic but also slightly vulnerable, some people are into sub buff guys and some are into pretty boys with monster cocks, ultimately we should accept these different preferences and not force our tastes on others
picrel, some women will prefer guy on the left and others guy on the right but both are hot in their own way

No. 222936

File: 1658166434240.jpg (53.73 KB, 400x500, 1591628491026.jpg)

Speaking of Dolph Lundgren

No. 222949

File: 1658169795385.jpg (67.02 KB, 363x500, masters-of-the-universe-lg.jpg)

The only reason I watched this shit movie

No. 223011

>Consider this for example: faceless/unrealistic humanoid female protagonist
No, I meant that I don't believe real porn for women could exist. Obviously 2D is superior because it makes female gaze porn possible and it doesn't involve real people (and most importantly, real women). Therefore, when done right, it's more likely to attract a female audience than a male one, unlike real porn which would probably always attract more males.
>Here's one of the evidence that BB/Ocelot is pretty much canon.
Yes anon I know, I've saved that exact same pic from another thread. Bosselot is most definitely not a joke. That's not what I was talking about.
>How is him fucking with male fans not based
I didn't say it wasn't? just that the funny Snake ass thing probably wasn't done with a female audience in mind, but as a joke (although it did end up being female gaze by accident)

No. 223013

File: 1658195777619.gif (1.09 MB, 426x181, download (19).gif)

No. 223028

Ahhh… the days of dolph posting.. were the original attractive men threads gone in the /m/ explosion?

No. 223044

femdom can't never be truly female gaze in my opinion. it's first and foremost a moid fantasy involving very hot women in stillettos stepping on their dick. sure some women took a liking to it but some women also enjoy horrible degrading porn so it doesn't mean much

No. 223045

>it's first and foremost a moid fantasy involving very hot women in stillettos stepping on their dick.
Have you ever visited the femdom thread on here? Moid-oriented femdom is not what we're talking about. Maybe it would be more accurate to call it "malesub" to emphasize the visual focus on the male, but that would include shit like yaoi, too.

No. 223046

no i haven't seen that thread but i've seen other manhwas like sadistic beauty and it's the same exact trope

No. 223048

Samefag, I guess I forgot to clarify this, but you're right. Femdom was created by and for men, and the best majority of what you'll see that is called "femdom" is a scrote fetish.
But female-oriented femdom does exist, and has the potential to be even bigger than it is now. Especially in the realm of 2D, where the men can easily look more appealing to the female gaze than any moid in the porn industry could, the women can look as unappealing and/or bland as to not distract the viewer (or attract moid viewers) and the angles can easily be drawn in a way that focuses of what women want to see.
Besides, there's literature as well. Anything is possible if it's written or drawn.

Could you give some examples of specific scenes or something that proves that those manhwa by and for women are indeed male gaze and not female gaze?

No. 223063

I think we all have a different view of what female gaze truly means because women are generally more complex than the simple minded moids who start getting hard at the sight of some breasts. What appeals to me might not appeal to you. Some like romance stories where boys are fawning over pretty girls, while others think that female leads should be allowed to be average or even ugly too. Some like femdom because they want to see sexually liberated women, while others think kinks are cringe and too similar to male fantasies about "dom mommies". Some like gay erotica because the focus is entirely on the boys, while others think it's a sign of self-internalized misogyny.

No. 223070

This is true. For the longest time, I believed I was abnormal since "femgaze" material didn't appeal to me. It turns out that I simply have different tastes.

ngl, I was going to ask how one can employ female gaze to attract a predominantly female audience. But, with such diverse tastes and desires, I don't believe that's conceivable. It's not impossible, but it's a Herculean undertaking to take on.

No. 223074

That meme is so spot on and hilarious. Every “poly” couple I know looks like the one on the right (plus a few uggos, obvi.)

No. 223076

I think you can and should do it. We need more femgaze stuff, not less! Just create what appeals to your eye.

No. 223095

imo the female gaze has got absolutely nothing to do with femdom.
the male gaze means men looking at and being aroused by women in their daily lifes, meaning women who merely exist, not women in a sexual situation.
the female gaze should mean the same, men in various situations being or wanting to look appealing to us. something pornified like fetishes once again profits mostly men.

No. 223098

File: 1658238143785.jpg (41.07 KB, 1024x640, R.jpg)

The female gaze is simply things portrayed from the female mind and view. It can be all sorts of things, like femdom. It can be non-sexual things.
The movie Portrait of a lady on fire is a great example of the female gaze. It's written and directed by a woman. There is nothing scroteish whatsoever about the way the women in the movie are filmed and portrayed. Also literally about the female gaze, as one of the characters is a painter.

No. 223099

Sounds like joseimuke games. Full male cast, pandering to all types of female weebs

No. 223101

Early on there is a scene with the main character sitting on the floor, naked and tired, smoking. She just gets to be naked and normal. Not objectified. It's so refreshing.

No. 223144

You're still thinking of the scrote fetish version of femdom (no one here who likes femdom likes mommyshit) and it doesn't have to involve fucking torture devices either. As is the case with a lot of sex-related things, most women who think they are into femdom are only being brainwashed into accepting and liking the male version of it (like those women who are manipulated into being a "mommy dommy" for their lazy and demanding troon boyfriends) as well as BDSM, not knowing that femdom could be different and better.
It's ok if you don't get it, although you could at least make an effort to read the femdom thread we have here before repeating the same shit over and over about how femdom is totally gross and male-gaze while describing a male femdom fantasy and not a female one.

>I was going to ask how one can employ female gaze to attract a predominantly female audience. But, with such diverse tastes and desires, I don't believe that's conceivable.
You can still attract a predominantly female audience even if you just cater to a very specific niche that not all women like. I'll give you an example: Tumblr Sexymen are an obvious female thing, but a lot of women think it's cringe and ridicule it, although that doesn't change the fact that it's exclusively women who are into it.
So you don't have to pander to every kind of woman to get a majority female audience. You just have to target one niche audience that is guaranteed to be full of women.

No. 223188

NTA but is there a version of femdom that isn't just male pandering? Is it even possible? Whenever I tried reading the femdom thread in /g/ it's just anons talking about how they want to jerk a guy off until he "whimpers and moans and begs for an orgasm" or making him eat you out, that sounds more like generic scrotepandering bangmaid shit to me. As long as we live in a male supremacist world it seems impossible to have actual femdom dynamics that are about genuinely dominating the sub like in a maledom setting, the only way to make them work would be in fiction's entirely controlled environment where you can decide how the male feels about it.

No. 223195

File: 1658258294139.jpg (18.24 KB, 257x400, 7c4944ff56b578882d64b067737c6c…)

Many pics of Damon albarn in the 90s/blur era are female gazey

No. 223198

i remember having this picture on my first smartphone

No. 223215

Personally I don't like the fact that the scrotes enjoy it, I'm thinking we could come up with a version of femdom where they're actually humiliated

No. 223218

File: 1658264829657.jpg (237.73 KB, 2132x2504, Picsart_22-07-19_18-03-54-280~…)

From the first "character designs we like" thread.

No. 223231

>I tried reading the femdom thread in /g/ it's just anons talking about how they want to jerk a guy off
What? I have never seen anyone in that thread say something like this, most of the time you'll get shat on if you say that's femdom.
What I do remember from recent threads is that anons were talking about having a knight who's completely loyal to you and does everything you say, or a butler or something like that. There was an anonymous who might've been LARPing but said she had found herself a stupid guy who only cares about pleasuring her and doesn't even mind if he doesn't cum. That sort of stuff.

No. 224522

I think if you cut the bottom part it looks nice. The bottom is too porn-y, like from some porn website for moids.

No. 224526

File: 1658769499726.jpg (81.87 KB, 552x599, FRb3MxcWQAEuZ.jpg)

Someone posted this pic in another thread and said it belonged here, I very much agree

No. 253134

File: 1667594858541.webm (1.3 MB, 480x852, moni HELLO SIR .webm)

No. 253136

File: 1667595239227.jpeg (86.49 KB, 700x704, D82BC1D0-4E31-4AB5-924C-AEDF2F…)

I love androgynous dumb boys dressed in revealing clothes but I hate that they only exist in fiction. Any man who dresses to purposefully look sexy and feminine is an agp coomer or deranged homosexual. Why can’t I just have an impossibly attractive dumb tragic backstoryboy in leather straps like in my otome games but in real life? I literally feel oppressed.

No. 253137

It's like modern men completely gave up dressing to attract women. It sucks.

No. 253138

File: 1667595572783.jpeg (400.14 KB, 520x890, FF380961-0F27-4355-9420-D22828…)

So what if he’s homosexual? You can enjoy him anyway. If you don’t want to because you’re repulsed by faggots, just make one of your own.
dollpilled chad > heckin’ alive fleshcels.

No. 253141

I wish we evolved like birds and men were actually sexy. Dressing themselves ornately and prostrating themselves before me just to get my attention. It’s literally not fair.
Even the men who try to make themselves attractive are just 0 empathy monkeys who are too dumb to understand what women want and turn themselves into gym gorillas or dress like they’re in an ad for erectile dysfunction pills, you know because other dumb men tell them that’s what attractive. I HATE IT I HATE IT !!! Irl moids are dumb in an infuriating way and not in a cute and vulnerable way.

No. 253142

I have had lots of unrequited loves with hono men. They’re cute but they’re horrible peopl3, like most men. I don’t wanna fuck that doll it looks weird af. I’d rather collect bjds with impossibly cute faces and dress them up in all kinds of cute clothes and pose them for cute photographs. Having a giant silicone man dildo is just creepy nonny, ngl.

No. 253143

Well back when I was a teenager in the 1990's there was no sales like that going on and there were some actually sexy goth guys who were into women. That's what I'm talking about. kek

No. 253144

well you see another problem is that irl moids can't really pull off that look well past 25 and that's only if they're already very attractive to begin with. but you might like kpop idols since most of them lean into that look
where i live almost every man older than 20 has short hair (if they aren't balding) and a hideous beard

No. 253145

>there were some actually sexy goth guys who were into women
but i thought most of those guys had a very specific type of stacy they were into? like the actual sexy girl type

No. 253148

File: 1667597506346.jpeg (972.94 KB, 2632x948, 3F25E458-BF0E-4680-A9C3-0301B7…)

What a fucking waste. He’s parading himself around like an heirloom hog that has managed to evade slaughter for a little too long because the farmer’s daughter took a liking to him as a little piglet and now his flesh is too rubbery to eat so they let him hang around until she inevitably gets bored of him. Are men truly this retarded and blind that they turn themselves into hamplanets when they decide to chomp down an extra sandwich or two for lunch? Jesus fucking CHRIST, what a hideous obese retard. You could sustain an entire orphanage in Africa with the flesh on his bones alone for up to six months.
What is especially chilling about this “incident” is how gleeful the mainstream media is when reporting it. Do you trust journalists deranged enough to think this is somehow an improvement to tell you the truth about Iran’s nukes? We are quick to take their sides when they have their heads chopped off by the al qaeda, but do we ever stop to think that maybe they deserved it? Have we been the bad guys all along?
I fucking hate men so much, sisters.

No. 253149

How does this relate to the female gaze at all? Neither anorexic nor roided men are female gazey.

No. 253151

I don't get it. I am underweight too and while I agree that he is a bit too much now I wish I could beef up a bit to not look like an inmate of some camp. I eat normally but somehow don't gain weight (bmi 15 or something) so seeing people getting out of this is inspiring to me. But guess you will accuse me of being a man for liking muscles or some shit.

No. 253153

Whenever I listen to music I imagine sexy men in skin tight tech armor with face visors dancing around sexily for my enjoyment

No. 253154

Journalists that report on anorexic men becoming bodybuilders do not write stories on Iran or al qaeda. Your vision of the world is deranged, and you will be unable to lead a happy life until you completely change it

No. 253160

And they should be killed regardless.

No. 256316

File: 1668892060381.gif (1.72 MB, 325x232, 1668593890339-1.gif)

No. 256317

No. 256369

Who is that? Also I didn't know that there were any sports uniforms like that for men lol.

No. 256374

I desire a moid like this.

No. 256378

I assume wrestling? But please >>256316 nonny tell us where it's from!

No. 256394

i need to buenos dias mandy him

No. 256419

Ayrt, unfortunately I have no idea abd can't remember where I found it!

No. 256530

File: 1668970695692.jpg (31.98 KB, 400x572, Tumblr_l_4352231660286711.jpg)

I'm trying so hard to keep this thread alive, please nonas I need your help

No. 256533

this is hypnotizing.

No. 256537

File: 1668971964043.png (209.09 KB, 268x370, tumblr_6c85cae2a689b756c618e37…)

No. 256538

File: 1668972163480.png (323.85 KB, 540x810, tumblr_7fff8968c8eacb6e8017007…)

No. 256539

Beautiful, thank you anon ilysm

No. 256543

File: 1668973100701.jpg (203.81 KB, 1200x785, 1657648923141.jpg)

No. 256545

Nope, that looks like a male porno.

No. 256546

love it.

No. 256547

what's gazey about this one

No. 256548

This gif is so hot its making me want to start the whole damn show just based off your post kek

No. 256550

Too bad the male actors casted for the show are fugly as shit besides that one overrated mixed dude.

No. 256551

I agree with all you've said. Treating female gaze as nonexistent or a mystery only feeds into scrote myths about us, imo. It's alive and well, may get polluted by the outside or taken too far by aidens but it's ours. As for the second part of your post, fictional "abusive obsessive love" is something I like but only because it's in a fantasy I can control. I like the idea of a guy being out of his mind obsessed. In muh yaois I also like to see the object of that affection be subjected to it. Irl this is always fucked up and wrong, and to deal with it even in a mild form would be a huge pain.

No. 256554

File: 1668975517525.gif (2.44 MB, 270x396, 1668139792742.gif)

the joker is my face right now, damn

No. 256555

File: 1668975588491.jpg (119.63 KB, 782x1000, 1663961302828.jpg)

No. 256556

File: 1668975821969.gif (4.66 MB, 498x460, 1668263585838.gif)

No. 256564

File: 1668978034511.jpeg (439.95 KB, 2046x1736, C80C8880-90DF-4864-90D3-E21154…)

In my experience the female gaze differs a large amount between women, possibly more than men's between themselves. However a few things that tend to be common are men who can be described as pretty, a focus on emotion, and an aura of romance. Even those aren't universal as you can tell all across /g/. But certain visuals and themes will get a wider appreciation with us than others and it's those that are probably what I'd call female gaze. It can be a lot subtler than the male gaze so it's harder to narrow down. I'm also biased toward my own tastes lol. Agree with other nonas about liking guys who put the right amount of effort into their appearance but still maintain a sense of masculinity and when it seems more for women than other men. He has to also show a little personality and sentience, a run-of-the-mill coomer moid ain't it. Howl is a good example of a popular female gaze character but he's 2D. I can think of more 2D than 3D examples since real men don't achieve it as much nor show as much depth.

No. 256565

File: 1668978300332.jpeg (68.07 KB, 600x667, FA000804-14DD-4BCE-95B8-935555…)

For a real person, Atsushi Sakurai is popular for catering to the female gaze but he aged out of it.

No. 256567

File: 1668978541217.jpeg (84.85 KB, 480x706, 8DCED25A-4CF4-413C-807F-CEB5C2…)

No. 256568

File: 1668978839948.jpeg (156.24 KB, 749x999, FA81C807-942E-4667-8826-559F64…)

No. 256571

File: 1668979067233.jpeg (149.95 KB, 1280x985, 1CB6CE86-579C-4859-9695-1CE1D1…)

The second I see Acchan I’m summoned. They don’t make men like this anymore, truly exuding romance

No. 256573

File: 1668979487401.gif (1.78 MB, 500x288, 808435F2-6E1B-4824-8B81-A3B0DE…)

I remember tumblr girls thirsting over male backs

No. 256574

arms/shoulders like that always get me going I don't know what it is about them

No. 256582

strong, broad, masculine. Imagine being held by them

No. 256585

Is this just a second version of the conventional men thread, i'm confused

No. 256590

I'm so happy this thread is going strong still, thank you girls heart emoji

No. 256591

Delicious. I love his body shape

No. 256594

Imo its more about singular pieces of media that are pleasing to straight women, not necessarily because you're attracted to the man, but due to the pose, movement, facial expression or setting of the subject. Or some other hard to pinpoint reason.

No. 258547

File: 1669587064373.jpg (415 KB, 1224x1916, Tumblr_l_4542577297154672.jpg)

No. 258548

File: 1669587085379.jpg (1.35 MB, 1324x2048, Tumblr_l_4542583606505821.jpg)

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