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>Are you a wiccan?
No; sorceress.>How do you use magic?
Nah, there’s heaps of them, especially after that godawful AHS:Coven.
It’s devastating to see so many women choose to act like a medieval ignoramus for a cheap aesthetic.
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I don't particularly believe in magic, but I still practice it as a way of affirmation.
I do sigils and tarot. Sigils are just a reminder of my goals and tarot helps me clear my mind and figure out my intents better.
I see magic almost as a way of psychoanalyzing myself and helping myself along. If you believe it works, it will work for you, but only for you and your cognition. There is no such thing as magical power, only power to convince yourself of something.
I think you're attaching too many things to what isn't there in my own practice. I don't use a wand, I had an altar to set up candles and have a separate place to sit and do things at. Not everyone sets down a salt circle and pulls out 15 crystals to do something.
You have a misunderstanding of it due to people who go all out.>>97572
this anon and I are similar in what we do from what I can tell.
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I have the same perspective as this anon on magic.
I use "rituals" for self-affirmation and setting goals, but I suppose you could just call them meditation. I also use tarot to help me think about choices I need to make; I don't think it predicts the future, it's just a guide.´
Recently, I've been getting into druidry and it's the spiritual path I'm following.
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>>97685>Do y'all think people who practice other religions are also mentally incompetent?
I mean, yeah, it’s dumb for adults to believe in angels and shit but witchcraft is worse because, unless they were raised with it, it’s usually just people doing it for the ~witchy aesthetic~. If you’re an adult and legitimately believe you’re a witch who can cast spells, then you are cow-tier.
>Do y'all think people who practice other religions are also mentally incompetent?
Yes, y’all are buying rocks made in China and paper that someone printed in tarot cards.
It’s like larping with religion and even more edgy props
Other religions seem at least
at sometimes make a little sense.
Witch/wiccans really just come across as wanting to be special or edgy. The nonsense they believe in is pretty funny. A mental illness.
Especially when they think they're better/different than any other religion.
Meeting them in real life just makes me cringe out of my soul and try to get way asap.
I try to respect people's belief or non belief, as long as it's not hurting anyone.
You will always get both religious and non religious fundamentalists. Best to just leave them be.
re: the tarot thing:
i grew up in alabama and i feel you so hard about this. one of my friends once brought a deck to my (admittedly catholic) school and the resident priest went and had a talk with her about the evil pieces of cardboard, woo woo. i agree with >>97572
in that they're useful for interpreting your state of mind and decision making but i basically think of tarot as an elaborate rorschach test w/ universal archetypes/symbology instead of ink blots.
when you look up the history of witchcraft it's actually pretty interesting and has a lot of variety. emma wilby's cunning folk and familiar spirits is an academic text on what i would consider 'real' witchcraft, i.e. shamanic/folk beliefs passed down from pre-Christian religions in the british isles. pity that most of what they believed was passed on through oral tradition (lol who needs to read in the 1400s? not peasants) and so is subject to pretty dire warping over time.
i do agree that the Wicca/Gerald Gardner/Order of the Golden Dawn/Aleister Crowley stuff is all pretty much steaming horseshit, though. those guys just had way too much time on their hands.
Needing a bunch of accessories and invisible pals to make decisions is retarded no matter who the religion says the invisible pals are.
Herbs aren’t as good as real medicine,
Salt is not protecting you
Crystals are just nice looking
Coven wasn’t that good of a show so chill out.
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>>97715>There's nothing more empowering and satisfying than telling yourself that you have the power to do whatever you set your mind to. It's also feminist af.
I just physically recoiled. This has to be a troll. How does lying to yourself that you can cast magical spells correlate with feminism whatsoever? If anything it perpetuates the “wimminz are neurotic and delusional” stereotype.
I practice witchcraft but only to a minuscule level. I use tarots and candles. Herbs as well. I dabbled in sigils but haven't really touched them since. I should since I'm in need of some self help other than long walks and exercise. >>97716
Anon why does it bother you so much what people chose to do in their freetime? Have you been harassed by someone who has claimed they were a witch before? The way you and other anons are chimping out on here is honestly embarrassing. Just hide the thread.
That black ritual board under the crytal ball.
Where can I buy it.
back in the day witchcraft was actually a way for women who didn't have a normal role in their communities (no husband, poor, or just generally weird) to make money to support themselves. there were also male witches but they were less common. so yeah, having a respected 'job' at a time when women in that social class were expected to be baby-making domestic servants at most was probably pretty empowering to those women.
the only downside was that people could also turn against you at the drop of a hat (or the death of a cow) and get you legally murdered, but it says something that even though these women were well aware of the danger, they believed strongly enough to keep practicing magic anyways.
i think when you feel powerless as a person, that's when witchcraft seems most appealing. it's a way to right the wrongs that you can't and society won't. like remember that brief internet fad where there was an 'occult ritual' floating around to curse Donald Trump? when people are desperate, they start grasping at straws.
Witchcraft is not the same as praying. Praying to pagan gods is the same as Christians praying to their God. If witchcraft = praying then why does "secular witchcraft" exist? How are emoji spells prayers?
Anon, I'm a pagan (not a wiccan) so I'm not shitting on pagans. Almost every pagan I've come across practices some form of witchcraft. It tarnishes the religion because people think you have to be a witch/wiccan to be a pagan.
Anyone with a brain can tell magic isn't real. It doesn't prevent bad things from happening. Wrapping a cow's tongue in wire won't make you win your court case. The Salem witches couldn't make Tom Brady win the super bowl. And whenever a spell fails, it can be justified. Oh, the stars weren't aligned. Oh, your intention wasn't strong enough. Oh, you did get money from your wealth spell but you weren't specific enough so the gods just gave you a quarter. It's bullshit. Go to tumblr if you don't want to hear negativity.
her books (and scott cunningham's, to a lesser extent) are actually widely derided among serious practitioners. they're usually the ones most beginners pick up because they seem the most comprehensive and fit the popular conception of witchcraft, but they're both troves of misinformation.
but hey, they sell well to edgy teens, so clearly that means the authors are ~experts~… at manipulating the fragile snowflake egos of kids, anyways.
You make is sound like I don't believe in medicine or hospitals lol. Many Christians pray for a loved one to get better while also going to the doctor for an actual treatment. That's fine. Witchcraft that says "take this weak herbal remedy and pray" is bullshit. I'm not cursing "my enemies" because cursing is not real.
I never said ritualistic outfits and chants were bad. That's also not witchcraft unless you're saying all Catholic priests are witches.
How is simply lighting a candle and giving an offering to a god witchcraft? Is going to a Catholic mass witchcraft? They light candles and hand out bread & wine. You're confusing praying with witchcraft.
Witchcraft is making a voodoo doll and stabbing it with pins. Witchcraft is putting a jar of water under the moonlight so it can absorb the moon energies. Witchcraft is filling a jar with rusty nails and piss to curse someone. Do people invoke the gods in their spell? Sometimes. They try to at least. But simply making a sacrifice to a god is not witchcraft. What about secular witchcraft? Is that not real witchcraft because it doesn't involve a sacrifice to a god?
Witches (actual ones, not wiccan cutesy caricatures) still exist in rural areas of Europe and Asia. They are grave robbing, robbing churches and killing animals, even breeding dogs to later slaughter them and gather dog lard for potions. This disgusting shit's happening in my area, some people got sentenced for dog lard farming couple of years ago. I know dude in who worked in some ukrainian shithole, they had to guard church and cementary 24/7. Witches aren't worshipping any nature spirits and witchcraft isn't their religion, they are christians, pure and simple. Paganism might look like witchcraft to someone who never heard about real witches. Nobody in my area would associate those two things, one is belief system, second is a proffesion.
Same with pagan witches, for example skin walkers, they are witches in Navaho culture and they are morally evil according to their values. Not that much info, because Navaho are smart enough to protect their culture from bastardization by wiccans.
Tl/dr. Magic doesn't exist, witches are real cultural phenomena, wiccans aren't real witches, witchcraft is a folk profession not religion.
skin walkers are the corrupt version of medicine men/women in Navajo* culture. and yes, those medicine men/women are nature worshippers (like those cutesy wiccan cariacatures) and believe their powers derive from the supernatural and ancestor worship.
again, if this is supposed to be an example of how pagan worship and witchcraft are so different
from one another, then you're not convincing me. Witchcraft looks different in every culture. A romany witch in Ukraine isn't going to behave the same as a navajo skinwalker in the Southwest United States, isn't going to behave the same way as a Haitian voodoo priest, but they all believe that they have the ability to influence the world through rituals invoking the supernatural.
Oh god those insane Santeria fuckers. Living with crusty chicken blood in their homes and killing puppies for fun.
Or the ‘preists’ Murdering albino kids for their magic limbs, General buttnaked eating children for magic powers on the battlefield.
That's crazy, where can I read more about the topic?
This is not a thing in my europoor country…
Am Romani. The witches/fortune teller stuff is really not us so much as other cultures making up exotic shit about those crazy gypsies they hated.
Travellers tend to be Catholic.
d-dog lard?!? jfc that's totally awful!
wicca is so sanitized, real witches out there spitting blood on people and stealing bones and shit…
Considering Wicca was made up by some guy and his friend at his kitchen table in the forties, it’s as sanitised as you’d expect.
They literally just picked random cool sounding deities from mythology textbooks and Aleister Crowley novels. Wiccans pretend it’s all based on genuine ancient paganism and old gods but it’s basically fan fiction from a hp lovecraft fan. The real practices from “real witches” wouldn’t suit wiccans. Can’t behead a chicken or a snake in your suburban bedroom altar. Mom will get mad about the carpet.
>>97839>they literally just picked random cool sounding deities from mythology textbooks and Aleister Crowley novels
if you're talking about Gerald Gardner, nah, he and Crowley knew one another briefly before Crowley died, he got it straight from the horse's mouth. That being said, all the stuff that the Order of the Golden Dawn came up with seems to have been a mix of freemasonry ritual, questionable 'secret occult texts' and personal gnosis.
To be fair, it did provide an opportunity for Crowley to bang a lot of impressionable young women and do a bunch of drugs. But here's where it falls apart: if Crowley's version of magic actually worked, do you think he would have died penniless, in ignominy, and abandoned by his former colleagues?
That's why I can't really get behind 'Wicca' witchcraft. Although likely if you tried to do all the shit that went on in the Abbey of Thelema in your suburban bedroom, Mom would also be mad about the carpet. And the walls. And the orgies. And drinking the cat's blood.
see>>97820>witchcraft isn't their religion, they are christians, pure and simplehttps://video.vice.com/en_us/video/witchcraft-in-romania/57b2e3701c1fcfa454047341
it's still around, it's just not as horrifying as >>97820
not all satanists are witches and not all witches are satanists tho
also>i'm not that religious>i literally have a rosary and bible next to my bed
Romanian and Romani are different things entirely..we aren’t Romanian. >>97860
Freedoms…nah. Being talked into pseudo mystical garbage, then getting talked into a orgy for the gods is not independent or free.
The guys were just creeps. What a shocker for inventors of a lame cult.
I’m part of the Australian diaspora. Our wiccans are all a bunch of fat middle aged women who wear what they think looks witchy and literal halloween “gypsy”costumes,and call themselves gypsies and witches and charge $45 for a shitty piece of rose quartz at the Sunday market.
I’m sure there are practitioners of Wicca who know enough to keep that shit private where it belongs but they’re still pretty shitty for following a religion that’s half based on novels and partly based on racist stories about people who abhor them.
think about it this way: in order to become part of a cult, they had to have financial independence and the ability to separate from their families. if someone had tried to start that cult thirty years prior, it would have been dead in the water simply because women didn't have those options.
note that crowley's thelemic religion =/= wicca, crowley's influence is certainly present in wicca but i never heard of gardner once having a orgy for the sake of summoning demons or some shit.
So it wasn’t Crowley and gardeners bullshit stories that made them any sort of independent, they were already independent and free to make stupid choices like go to Italy to sleep with creepy guys with a hard on for alchemy.
>>97864>half based on novels and partly based on racist stories about people who abhor them.
where are you getting this from>>97866
Better than being a housewife to a misogynist (as all men were at the time), bored out of your skull, with no job and no prospects of improving your life or escaping it. That's far worse to me than the idea of traveling and enjoying your youth.
Yes but you’re falsely equating their freedom with being Wiccan, which is ridiculous.
Gardeners book was literally cherrypicked from other myths and legends and hermetic motifs. It wasn’t a resurgence in extant pagan religions or anything that would seem even slightly legitimate.
He and some lady named Doreen sat down and wrote some books and secret letters and invented an entire religion out of thin air. It’s not like it’s some ancient practice or related to the Salem “witches”
Wicca didn't even exist at the time so I don't understand how you think I'm equating their freedom to being Wiccan. They were Thelemic occultists. I agree that Aleister Crowley was a pervert and probably a narcissist and/or insane, but he also did give women a higher role/more respect in his religious hierarchy than in any other religion at the time. Probably because he was a masochist.
Also if you did your research, you'd know that the Salem witches were a) not witches at all, but victims of mass hysteria, and b) accused of Satanic practices, not those that Gardner based his works on which were (purportedly, based on OotGD beliefs) Druidic in nature.
I personally think that Gardner also had his head up his own ass, so I don't know why I'm arguing with you except that you keep making inaccurate declarations as though they were factual and I hate seeing people being misinformed.
My point is that the occultists were not empowering the women. It doesn’t matter which goddamn occult group it was. You can’t argue that the thelemic whoever gave these women independence when the women had to be independent enough to join it.
Everyone knows the Salem victims weren’t witches, because magic of all kinds is fictional and nobody has ever been any sort of actual witch, aside from occultists and wiccans who deluded themselves.
I never argued that Crowley's home-brew religion gave them independence, I was saying that the women who partook of it were already acting in the same capacity with men (i.e. ~feminism~) in that they had the equal rights to fuck up their own lives instead of being abused, coddled by their families, or married off.
>everyone knows the Salem victims weren't witches
so why are you bringing it up in the same breath as decrying Wicca because it's not an 'ancient practice'? Neither was what those women were killed for.
I'm not even Wiccan but your logic is all over the place.
are you the same person who went on that diatribe earlier about>i'm pagan but not the witchy kind of pagan because all that does is make us look bad
because you never said what you actually believe in or what your worship consists of, and it's curious that you can shit all over other people's religions but won't defend or explain what makes yours different and better
No. I’m an asshole but I’m not any sort of Wiccan. 100% skepticism of every single pagan occultist Wiccan witch whatever they want to call themselves. >>97872
The point about wiccans and their ilk not practicing the sort of garbage commonly associated with ancient religions, or “witches” like the Salem victims was pointing out that all modern occultism is essentially pagan fan fiction and therefore clearly nonsense to anyone with a working brain. Women choosing to pretend they have magical powers and fuck in front of crystals wasn’t feminist however you frame it. The timing coincidence is pretty meaningless.
Salem was an example because it’s an internationally understood archetype of old pagan-esque witches,even though that’s not what the Salem women actually were. Poor example, but I’m not here for comparative religions.
TIL that fanfiction religions are only acceptable once they're at least
1,000 years old.
I'm looking at you, bible-thumpers.
all religions are more or less merely moral codes. the only important part is how they affect your mental state and your behavior.
in that case, if chaos magic makes you feel fulfilled and gives you a sense of purpose or an acceptable model of morality to live by, go for it.
in the same capacity, i'd take a crazy but nice wiccan over a self-righteous christian any day.
>>97877>timing coincidence was pretty meaningless
the fact that you use the phrasing 'women choosing' shows that it isn't. unless you were a wealthy and eccentric widow, you didn't have autonomy to go follow a batshit religion in the 19th century.
>but I'm not here for comparative religions
what are you even here for then
This is me again;>>ITT mundanes arguing with neophytes again, the revengance
I'm tired of everyone misinterpreting what magic is and how to use it.
The universe operates on one single source at it's core. This force is called intent. Everything is made of intention. All actions, energies and things, including ourselves if not more so.
The object of source(ery) is to project your own intention(will) into the source(universe) with enough force to yield results.
I've witnessed my own intentions come to life in horrifying ways; much like the monkey's paw.
These things only come to fruition if you are willing to bank your entire psyche on the fulcrum of intent. Your soul is it's own leverage.
I know Romanian is a nationality, however the majority of the witches which live there are Roma/Romani, which are what most people think of when they think of 'gypsies' and the associated visual stereotypes. However, Irish Travellers are also called 'gypsies' (in a derogatory sense).
None of them like being compared to halloween-costume gypsies however.
I think you're missing anons point, which is that you're associating Romania with the Romani. So it sounds like you think Romani are from Romania.
Romania's population only has 3% Romani which is the same as other countries like Hungary and Bulgaria.
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Any tips/resources for someone wanting to get started for this reason?
I don't have any religious inclinations or beliefs, but some days it just feels like there's too much happening in the world and I feel overwhelmed. It would be nice to have a way to funnel it, even if it just means projecting my feelings into silly cards to pretend I can make any sense of it at all.
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I would suggest you research the topics you're most interested with first before delving in. For sigils I would recommend reading Liber Null (you don't have to follow it exactly, there's a lot of bullshit in it, but it's a good book if you're willing to do a lot of meditation and self-assessment) but there are also a lot of simple guides online and for Tarot I've chosen Thoth tarot for myself so Book of Thoth by Aleister Crowley was my introduction and guide. (If you want to work with Thoth tarot as well, a good resourse is http://www.corax.com/tarot/cards/index.html
You will have to be skeptical and willing to do more research on certain topics to justify doing magic to yourself, like I learned quite a bit about quantum mechanics and the multiple universe theory because it sorta tied into my magical views.
Don't be afraid to deep-dive wikipedia if you don't want to pore over difficult magickal books, it has some very succinct articles on a lot of stuff and you can use references from them as reading material.
Just be ready to throw away a lot of what you will learn because you will basically have to cherry pick everything that would fit into your new worldview.
Be skeptical of all the potions and spells and research chaos magic and self-improvement, how to work with intents and self-care/help articles.
Basically imagine that magic is a very elaborate self-care routine and don't overdo it.
Hope this helps.
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Retired chaos mage here. Feel free to ask anything.
>>98183>like I learned quite a bit about quantum mechanics and the multiple universe theory because it sorta tied into my magical views.
based anon. reading david bohm and alfred north whitehead made all my other metaphysical interests "click" for me even though obviously neither of those authors explicitly reference magick. before, my interest in the occult was superficial, doubtful (rather than healthily skeptical and cautious), and confused. now i see it as an extension of what i understand about the undivided nature of existence and it makes much, much more sense. >>100855
cool! is that your discord?
Do you feel that you've accomplished a lot of what you set out to do when you first started on your path?
Did you ever have problems with confidence relating to your practice, and if so, did they improve? How?
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Yes it is my discord. I retired after one ceremony I did. The ceremony was successful and I got scared of the result.
But aside from that, I accomplished A LOT. Mainly on the theological/ spiritual side.
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>>100886>You do ceremony>Your evocation is successful>You get scared of your own evocation>You quit magick
Do you Londono?
What sort of ceremony? How was it successful?
>Do you Londono?
What does London have to do with this? I'm not the anon you're replying to btw but you do sound confusing. And too vague.
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ghoul,al-ghuûl,الغول,tulpa evocation, call it whatever you want.
I used sigil, mantra and death position meditation. What's confusing about that?
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I think you all aren't deep enough into magicK
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BURN THE WITCHES! BURN THEM AT THE STAKE! AAAAA
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I'm a bit of a newcomer (ex-Catholic), but witchcraft and paganism have interested me for awhile. It feels good to be mapping out a path and feeling a connection with my surroundings again.
I still don't really believe in supernatural stuff ie. magic, deities, etc. But I think I can understand them in metaphorical relation to my life in a way that's not as oppressive as Catholicism was.
Going down the path of being a green witch has interested me the most. I've started a journal with herbal/perfume recipes, meditation affirmations, and collections of things I find outside. I want an alter so I can display the things I collect in nature as an ode of my appreciation and reflection of it. My bf has one, but it's impersonal because it's not really my own. We both take care of plants and try to be more conscious about what we consume.
Also it's not that I don't carry a degree of skepticism either. I don't believe in stone magic for example, although I think the symbolism is interesting. I love learning about flowers. I like essential oils for their smells and some antiseptic and pesticidal properties, but I don't think they can cure things like cancer. I believe herbal remedies can be helpful for general health upkeep, but if I were ever gravely ill I would seek a doctor.
A lot of this stuff actually requires research and knowing shit because certain herbs and oils can actually fuck people up if they're unaware of the hazards. It satisfies me because I do feel like I'm learning something tangible.
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>be me>be materialist who believed popular dogmatic myths like “when you die you’re definitely unconscious forever” or “the human need for spirituality is simply an antiquated mechanism to motivate material survival and nothing more">poser into magic for goth aesthetic reasons>figure i ought to do some basic research lest i be outed as said poser>read a few occult books, sounds nice and kind of make sense i guess, sounds fake and too good to be true though>read some books on quantum physics as a last attempt to make some sense of what i’ve been reading>one night while finishing up my book my primary reality shifts and it’s suddenly wordlessly, effortlessly clear that the infinitely expanded totality is located in each infinitely contracted point just as much as the reverse is true>realize the implications of this and what humans of the ages would have described this as>tfw all this shit might actually be real >tfw my ability to perceive may very well be what you would call immortal>even though i realize that i can never know for absolute certain, my day to day convictions and suspicions completely shift and hidden meanings instantly jump out of art like a language recently learned>read same occult books again and much of what they say makes simple, practical sense where before it seemed lofty and fantastical>tfw accidentally become an initiate just to pad my edgy aesthetic>>105009
this was one of the books i read and reread! I like what he says about Lilith/Eve as Shakti/Maya "Maya maintains and reproduces the level of illusions, dualities, and matter. At the same time, she is Shakti, the reptilian primeval force that can arise and destroy the illusions and the material plane."
lol i see the similarities but i'm not too worried about it. i realize there's always a possibility that i'm completely mistaken about everything. i also don't think any hidden meanings are specifically intended for me as an individual. they're either intended for anyone and everyone who notices them, or they're not intentional at all and i'm just having fun noticing interesting patterns in the limited system of language.>>106832
i don't see what i have to feel special about when millions of people before me have had similar experiences and expressed them way more clearly than my inarticulate ramblings. i kinda feel late to the party. i'd only feel special if i discovered something before anyone else did, or if i discovered something that uniquely applies to me and no one else. >>106751
i doubt i'm that far ahead in any important way. i think being far ahead is just about how much control you have over your thoughts and how often you maintain that control. a group sounds cool as long as it doesn't turn into a cult and get in the way of self discovery! if you haven't read them already, try quantum psychology by robert anton wilson, wholeness and the implicate order by david bohm, or a new science of life by rupert sheldrake. i think you'd like them. it's really fun to read traditional occult literature and try to fit those ideas into the ones presented by the books i just mentioned.