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I am a "manly" female. I was a tomboy growing up. When I was a child I hated wearing dresses, I always felt stupid or that I would be ridiculed for wearing them. In elementary school I insisted on wearing "boys" clothes, even boxer shorts, and my parents went along with it. In middle and high school I wore pretty "gender neutral" clothing, but I was heavily into the punk scene so it was still strange clothing by average standards.
Now I'm an adult and I've tried to ignore my past and embrace femininity.
I dress pretty basic, just jeans and shirts.
I am struggling as an adult female though. I have no female friends and I don't know how to make any. I have not had any since I was a child, and back then it was forced friendship and not genuine. I have not even had a single friend for many years. The only "friends" I make that I can be myself around, are men who either want to be in a relationship with me (but I refuse, so the friendship dissolves), or men who I enter a relationship with (but I am never happy in).
I feel like I can only relate to men, but I cannot be friends with men, because men only want to fuck women.
I feel like friendships between women are not and will never be as deep or meaningful as friendships between men. I understand that this is something I will never experience, and it fucking hurts me so much.
I feel I am experiencing gender dysphoria, however I will absolutely never transition or put it out in the open.
I just don't understand what is happening in my mind, but I feel like there may be some kind of childhood trauma that I cannot trace.
Can anyone offer any help as to why I feel this way, or should I go straight to a psychiatrist? I am now 28, and I am in so much emotional pain. I feel my biological clock ticking away and I don't know where to even start with my problems.
How can you judge the quality of female friendships when you admit to never having had a deep one yourself? It doesn't sound like you're dysphoric over your body either, just unable to form friendships or unhappy with gender roles/expectations.
I honestly think you should just go to a psychiatrist. We can't diagnose you over the internet without more context.
I actually tried to delete it to ask an advice thread but it's been over 30 minutes.
Friendship is absolutely beyond sex. But true friends are difficult to find. Pointless if you are male or female.
I have female friends and I love to have deep talks with them about live, it odds, its funny moments, people they meet. I do talk about politics with them, but this talks are less common than the talks I have with male friends. Males use to talk about things that they would change if they were in the position to do so - and it seams they imagine it while talking. The imagined progress makes them happy.
Its way less about people they meet. Actually never about other males. And even with the nicest guys, they get superficial talking about girls with other men.
But I don't find a big difference in males and females if you get to know them in person.
Of course, there are people so bond to stereotypes, there own personality becomes just a shadow. But this is true for males and females.
The one thing I hardly find in females is this "I would die fighting with you!", which somehow is an unspoken but present promise in a male relationship.
Thuogh males clearly appriciate sex in realtionships with females, if they are smart enough to see the person behind the body they may still be interested in beeing with you - but at this point it is an reduction and still: If they can have both, they will allmost allways go for it.
This could be one reason why you alre lonely: All male friends you stick to have girlfriends - and girlfriends do not tend to like to see their men with another girl - no mater if you are a tomboy or not.
But this are just my experiences.
I am german, so I live in a open society. The city I am from has over a million people. I live in a shared flat with changing roommates since … SOME years, people from all over the world. I am a OR-7 (3 deployments - easy ones, please no chears), a medic and a scientist.
I have a wide angel - but surely no full view.
AND I tend to see the best in other persons.
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I understand the problem. Also a very ''masculine'' woman and I have given up on trying to pretend to be girly. Though I don't feel like it really takes away from my femininity, it is more like a different brand of femininity.
I have to say that the closest friendships I have ever had with women was with butch lesbians. I wish more of them were out there, because they are absolutely great to hangout with. Sure they might still be sexually interested, but at least they are a lot more respectful than men and don't treat you like a piece of meat (as frequently as men do). Problem is though that despite me being straight, their girlfriends often worry that I'm a threat.
Being platonic friends with straight men is just impossible, they will always try to poke and prod to get you to sleep with them, even if they aren't particularly interested in you. They will just take whatever they can get. They will ruin the relationship by eventually getting frustrated that you don't want their penis and they will bitch about being friendzoned almost universally. Gay non-flamboyant men who aren't mysoginists can be good friends, but those are difficult to find.
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i relate to this very hard except i present a lot more femme nowadays. I remember buying my first bikini or pair of heels being very embarrassing and "not like me" since I was labelled a tomboy my whole life.
I also struggle with female friendships.. I have a few online and I love having sweet caring and relatable people to talk to but guys are a majority in my life, esp irl. It sucks because a lot of them that I become close to develop feelings for me and idek why because I don't lead them on and I used to have a relationship of several years.
Sometimes I wish I was just born with a dick so I could fully be friends with people who share the same hobbies, humour, etc. I don't think I experience dysphoria but ever since I was a child I thought.. maybe something went wrong in the womb. It didn't help that as soon as puberty hit guys could never see me as one of them. It doesn't help now that I like to take care of my appearance and try to buy more "womanly" clothing (I haven't known how to dress myself for 20 years) so I kind of resemble a normie but have the social autism of an incel.
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They won't date you, but men think differently from women. If they can fuck you once, they will do so, you don't need to be a 9/10 or 10/10 for that even if they are very attractive themselves.
Ever wondered why men in a relationship with attractive women will cheat with an uglier woman? She was simply available, that's all. Men don't work like women. They will take what they can get.
nta and slight derail, but I wonder if men had the same pressures to stay chaste/monogamous they would? I personally am attracted to most people and would fuck around if I didn't have self-control/wasn't saving myself for a relationship. I can't necessarily hate men for being like this if they also get rewarded by society for fucking.
Honestly I'm kind of jealous.
(Also anecdotal but I have two males friends who are confirmed
not attracted to me. Another almost definitely is and another is just openly horny always so I'd say he would also lmao. It's not absolute in my experience.)
If the past couple thousand years of the Bible with its fire and brimstone couldn't overcome the power of testosterone I don't really think that slut-shaming has a chance.
That said I've met plenty of men who aren't the sex-crazed lunatics that the bitter legbeards ITT describe. If they'd judge people by their character and not by their category they wouldn't find themselves surrounded by shitty people.
My first word of advice is to not actively seek friends based on their sex or gender. You still see "tomboys" as separate from being female in some way, but a woman's genetic makeup and personality is as numerous and varied as there are plant species or stars in the sky. Don't put yourself in a box, avoid labeling yourself. You are conditioning yourself to believe you can only relate to males because you have a "masculine" personality that deviates from femaleness. Being a tomboy is not unique, masculinity and femininity are a spectrum and are not limited to your biological sex. Almost all females have a tomboyish side. You may be more in tune with your masculine side, but that doesn't mean you can't relate to other women, or learn from each other's different perspectives.
What you're describing, about attracting men that only want sex with you, sounds like you are a codependent and attract narcissists. Low self-esteem, thinking you are an outcast to women, means tolerating bottom of the barrel men for temporary relief of loneliness. I've been in your shoes, t. ex-self identified tomboy.
Sorry about the "bee yourself" meme, but it applies here. Go to college, take a few classes in what interests you, join a club, get a hobby, etc. When you have questions about a subject or are just feeling passionate, share it with the people around you. You're bound to make good friends that way, male and female, because you have a common interest. Always try to find common ground, but respect the differences as long as it doesn't cross serious boundaries. When you have learned helplessness, you tend to engage in defeating behavior others can detect, and in your case, other women not being your friend. If you feel you can't get close, it's often your inability to detect the relationship was not going to go anywhere early on, OR you've distanced yourself without realizing it.
Therapy is a smart choice though, as you can work out these issues on a deeper level and have more lasting results.
same >started reading stories online about how all your male friends would develop crushes on you
at that time I had never had a boyfriend and none of my male friends had shown any interest in me
started wondering if their was something wrong with me
This is entirely up to you. Sometimes we like to project our negative thoughts about ourselves, unto others, back to us. What I mean, is we may take a comment personally that wasn't meant to be, or add a whole new layer of meaning due to insecurity. That being said, if you feel like a boundary is being crossed (they are making very clear comments about you, not just misconstrued glances), you should cut off those "friends;" they're not really your friends. Girls who are insecure in themselves will project it unto you in order to deter you from your progress. Personally, if I were close to them, I'd try to be honest with them, that what they said bothered me, and try to get to the meaning of why shitty remarks were made. Typically, there's a resolution, either apology and understanding, or they continue with their shitty behavior, in which case, cut them.
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Anon, it’s perfectly ok to be low key, or prefer a masculine style of dressing regardless of your sexuality. Maybe you’re meant to be a butch lesbian, and maybe you’re just a tomboyish woman. Nothing wrong with that.
Your inability to get close to people romantically or friendship wise is less with your looks and more with maybe some trauma or fear or poor socialization? I don’t know but there’s really no shame in seeing a therapist. Nobody has to know if you’re embarrassed by it and they might be able to give you better advice than here.
Good luck anon, I wish you the best.
Been there. (blogpost coming)
I used to be very tomboyish personalitywise and a mess of a person (poor hygiene sense, dressing with first hoodie and pants I'd found, not even combing my hair and such). The time I was beginning to "blossom" my friends would pick up any occasion to do sneaky comments about me. They told my boobs were made out of fat and the such, retrospectively I now see how they were afraid of me becoming prettier than them. That may sound arrogant, but I used to be the ugly one in the group, but when adulthood hitted, cards switched.
Aside from that, be sure it is just not poor, toxic
competition and speak up to yourself. Don't let them disrespect you and talk to them. If they go on, just ditch them, you don't need them. Focus on being a strong woman you can be proud of.
There's nothing wrong with being a tomboy, I'm so scared about what this current TRA stuffis doing to girls like yourself. I think it's also really important to know people of all different types, so that you don't think that there's something wrong with yourself for being a certain way.
I know a woman who is overall quite chunky but strong, her hair is always just messily shoved into a ponytail, she never wears makeup. But she has such a confident and outgoing personality so it's obvious that she just doesn't care about her appearance, she is always talking about work or hikes or something cool she experienced. When I met her I just expected from all this that she was gay or some kind of solitary woman going her own way. I felt like a jerk when I found out that she has a sweet husband and a girly daughter that she carefully braids the hair of. I had never met a woman like that before and so I had just put my basic expectations onto her.
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>>111394>I don't think it's internalized misogyny, my best friends all throughout school were more women than men.
It isn't internalized misogyny to simply like what you gravitate towards, it would different if you avoided "femininity" purely out of its association with women though.
Neither makes you any more or less a women. It denies the ontological nature of a woman if you have to try to be that thing.
Can I just say that you are not alone? I am incredibly relived to hear that someone is going through the same thing. For me I have already started psychiatric therapy and I absolutely recommend it. It will allow you to understand that the way you feel is right and how to explore yourself as a person whilst being mindful of the pressures and boundaries fucked into us by society.
For me it is this overwhelming anxiety-inducing feeling of being a complete alien in society. Like you are not trans or female but this weird hybrid of both? Its like you identify with the 'traditional' male interests and mindset but you have the literal physical body of a woman and feel 'right' in your own body.
All I can really say is that there is nothing wrong with you and you will get over this and you will one day become comfortable with who you are and where your life has put you.
There is nothing wrong with asking for help and even one session with a professional can help re-firm and explain the feelings you are having, I wish you best of luck.
>>111012> that the bitter legbeards ITT
Oh did you hear that anons? We're bitter legbeards apparently.
+1 NLOG points to you, hope you cash them out one day.
dudes dont only wanna fuck.
look deep inside yourself. be truly introspective. there is no way you didnt know they were into you given how much you claim to understand men.
Post more on lolcows girl boards. Ask for advice. It isn't that deep.
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Good god, the amount of snowflakes in this thread is simply astounding.
Stop trying to create identies out of what you fucking buy and wear.
You're going to center your self image around fucking fabrics and what retarded consumerist children's hobbies you engage in?
There are literally millions of women out there who are deeply intelligent and are completely captivating to be friends with. If you are unable to find them, it's probably a you problem.
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While intelligence could be equal. You cannot deny that it is somewhat useful to have things in common with your friends, so you have something to talk about. I don't know about you, but I don't think most people have deep philosophical discussions everyday with their friends, instead of hanging out and doing activities you both like doing.
Nevermind that a lot of women are extremely critical of other women, and would write off adult tomboys anyway. I don't agree with OP that women have shallow relationships, I'd rather say it's the opposite case.
Though I hope you can sympathize with the adult tomboys who have been thrown under the bus by all the trans activist shenanigans. Women who are made to feel like they aren't real women, because they aren't feminine. Who feel like they are excluded. Who feel like they don't belong anywhere. Nevermind if you are a tomboy and straight, so you cannot fit in a rad fem lesbian community. I don't think these people want to be special snowflakes, but the trannies have muddied the water and now everyone is confused. That is how you get 'not like other girls phenomenon', because now the binary is even more emphasized. Though instead of this being a case of pick-me cool girl, this is a straight tomboy problem. It is that dread of feeling like you are failing as a woman, because society tells us that if you aren't the epitome of femininity, you're not a real woman anymore.
I think you completely missed my point. I am trying to explain why an adult straight tomboy might feel like an outcast. I don't think they want to be special snowflakes, but are very confused by trans ideology. It is somewhat looked down upon for a straight woman to be very masculine and you regularly get "why won't you transition" comments.
You cannot deny that trying to enter radfem spaces as a straight woman who wishes to be sexually active with men, can lead to exclusion. Libfem lesbian spaces are out of the question, because who wants to constantly hear they would make a great man?
It is a lonely existence and you barely ever come across people who are in the same situation. It's difficult to be okay with yourself. So some troon out to get a community and friends.
Personally for me it all stems from autism, so I am screwed no matter what in the friends/romance department. But I can empathize with feeling like you failed at being a woman and not feeling like you belong anywhere. So please do not attack the anons for talking about potentially trooning out or seeing themselves as NB. They don't want to be snowflakes, but trans ideology made the definition of woman being a pretty pink princess, and I hope you can understand the struggle.
i guess i just don't see these radfem/transbian groups out and about irl like they are on the internet. i live in a pretty diverse, large city and i don't feel like adult groups are as cliquish as you're making it seem. 90% of people that see an androgynous woman or man are not going to immediately jump to the conclusion of them needing to transition unless you're hanging out with a bunch of 4chan teenagers irl.
your autism definitely seems like it's a hindrance in the way you think other people are perceiving you. it's really not all that deep and many friendships can be cultivated without sex,etc. ever being a topic of discussion.
Anon, don't worry. I never wear make-up and I'm proud of it. The most I'll do is mascara and eyeliner on my top lid when I'm going out. I don't even care about putting it on for after work dates anymore.
I honestly have no clue how to do makeup, but I don't have interest in learning. It's bad for your skin, time consuming, and super expensive. I don't run the risk of people asking "Are you tired?" if I don't wear it, and when I do wear even the little amount I do it I look fucking awesome.
This is like a way late reply.>What a healthy person should base their image on?
How about principle, ideals, and virtue for one? Do you ever come in conflict fundamentally with something in life? How do you think about certain events that have happened in your life? It doesn't have to be a political party or a religion, and frankly those are imperfect choices.
If you have nothing to yourself beyond the physical, then obviously your friendships are going to be shallow and unfulfilling, regardless of gender.
This is just me, but I have makeup and dyed hair (incl. theater, halloween, and beauty purposes) heavily associated with bad odor. Not as in BO, but as in chemical and artificial. I can barely scroll through /snow/ and /w/ while eating.>>131030
If you think of it this way, if you define feminimity as make-up and fashion, then it's easily appropriated by drag queens and stage performers who also wear make-up and feminine fashion. Or any man that's a make-up artist. Except obviously, they're not any less men than they were before, for having used makeup. It's a consumer product for an industry.
Is that only for females am I an intruder ?>>146063
It is just for "friend-zone" , most of females think every man want her and lust for her thank you sage for the ban
I have a crush on tomboyish girl and I search the internet to discover more about because I don't want to be rude with her or offense her by any mean, I immediately felt a connection in my first met and talk with her that made me wonder since, This is the only reason I wrote here I don't want to be an intruder because I am a guy, I just want to know that's all, please do not interpreter my words incorrectly I don't want anyone to get hurt or offended because I am not intended to do so… especially you @sage
I just have a crush with that person and I want to know how to deal with it correctly(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
>>146151>we women are blessed with this natural grace and beauty and you'd rather eschew all that
How do you eschew something you don't have?
You seem to think that femininity is natural (which is true, just not in all women), while being a "tomboy" is a performance. For us it's just our natural state, and pretending to be "womanly" is unnatural. People are different, that's all.
>>146151>>146171>the factor of doing it for male approval is definitely part of what makes it even cringier for me.
breaking news: pickme loser can't fathom a woman doing something not for male approval. stop projecting lol>learn to love your womanhood
oh, sorry, didn't know that wearing lipstick and heels and dresses is what womanhood is.>being a tomboy is the highest form of male pandering.
right, women going against societal norms and refusing to spend their time and money making themselves look like blow up dolls for male consumption is totally male pandering. >maybe i'm just backwards and retarded
the first intelligent thing you've said
i guess to elaborate there is such a thing as tricking yourself into being something you are not. and i think a lot of tomboys are doing this.
reason is i grew up in a majority male household, so i always viewed masculinity as something that is "cool" and something to look up to because that is what my older brothers were. which extended to outside social situations, i would emulate masculinity because of this perception.
then i went through a phase where i was super obsessed with performing femininity- not just appearance wise, but cooking, cleaning, etc. then i got into an abusive
relationship where i realized that's not how it works. masculinity and femininity are not performed. they are inherent.
and i later got into spirituality, a lot of occult stuff that talks about accepting your true self. which is when i realized, there is the self you trick yourself into being for the sake of the acceptance of others. and there is the you who is really you. and because we are born the way we are, we cannot change our inherent womanness.
you may perceive that you lack womanhood but you in fact do not. because it's something that is inherent about having a vagina.
sincerity is very important. why do you think it's cool to pretend you're not inherently womanly? is there some group you're trying to appeal to? if so then why? are they really as cool as you perceive them to be? what is so much better about all this self deception than just coming to terms with you are who you are?
tbf i may be schizo.
>>146188>OP is wrong about male friendships being more meaningful because they're not. Men are pitiful, never talk to each other about their problems and are always making fun of serious stuff.
this, this, this holy shit, thank you anon, I am even not a tomboy myself but someone who worked a lot in male environments but why the fuck do so many women here have male friendships so idealized?? Have you guys ever had significant male friends?? at all??? they are miserable and pathetic all the time, they drag you down, and you end up telling them what and how to more often than not.
I'm gonna get a lot of shit for this but I feel like many tomboys and fakeboys are into that because they idealize masculinity and take men for way more than what they really are (while looking on women and femininity down in the process. I swear they play some weird not like other girls narcissism shit to feel better about themselves). Understand men aren't jackshit and they don't exist to validate your worth as a manly woman, or as a person (and that being a manly woman doesn't make you better or different neither) and you'll become more confident and happier.