/ot/ - off-topic

The claim that women in comparison to men earn "77 cents to a dollar" for the same work is bullshit and has been refuted too many times to count. Literally google it.

The "wage gap" is more of an earnings gap. Women, on average, tend to go into careers that earn less than the types of careers than men, on average, go into.

>>173878
Ik this is in /ot/ but fuck me this is a stupid thread. The pay gap has been disproven dozens upon dozens of times if women werent stupid and obsessed with vanity and luxary they would opt for better jobs in STEM and tougher earlier hours as well as life sacrificing jobs like mining, military and the police force it exists for a reason in western democracy it may differ in communist nations. Honestly discussion about this shit just makes me ashamed to be apart of such a retarded sex sometimes.

Pls lock admin-sama

>>173881
>>173880

pretty much this. Don't get me wrong, women do have it tougher on different levels and have to battle stereotypes linked with sex, but the wage gap in the western world is utter crap. If you're good at what you do then gender is not an obstacle.

>>173880
>>173881
>>173889
thanks for restoring my faith in my gender, guys

I'm a NEET/housewife atm, but my boyfriend works at a fast-paced female dominated job. He's been there a year, has had several raises, and is catching up to the pay of people who have been working there for years, AND he's about to get a promotion. He comes to me every night complaining about how lazy the bitches he works with are while he busts his ass. They stand around gossiping & swapping anecdotes when there's tons of work to be done, they pull out their phones every 10 minutes. But nope his advancement has nothing to do with his hard work, it's just his boss being totally sexist, right? (his boss is a woman too, btw)

>>173880
>The claim that women in comparison to men earn "77 cents to a dollar" for the same work is bullshit and has been refuted too many times to count. Literally google it.

That study doesn't compare like-to-like so it's misleading, but that study being wrong doesn't somehow disprove a like-for-like wage gap. There's a lot of conflicting evidence whether men and women who work at the same company in the same roles for the same time have a pay difference. The complex reality is that it's probably true to some degree for some companies and industries in the US, and not true for others.

It's a fallacy to let one bad claim or study serve as proof that the claim is false.

What about women working two shifts (at work and at home due house work and child care)?

>>173992
>>There's a lot of conflicting evidence whether men and women who work at the same company in the same roles for the same time have a pay difference. The complex reality is that it's probably true to some degree for some companies and industries in the US, and not true for others.
Got any evidence to backup that claim fam?

>>It's a fallacy to let one bad claim or study serve as proof that the claim is false.
It is but you're no better postulating such a dichotomous idea with no evidence to back it. Nigger you just put the burden of proof on yourself making such a claim.

>>173994
Homemaking isn't a fucking career I thought feminists were supposed to be about getting woman out of the kitchen not delegating a job position in the kitchen for them.

I also don't understand that "women, like men only cheaper" meme if women are cheaper and it's a known thing why not hire them instead of men, quality isn't a issue here this is the capitalist west right?

Women are not paid less for no reason, I think they are paid adequately. Some are paid more than they're worth because of muh equality and I am saying this as a woman. It's literally illegal to. They tend to either take holiday leave(no additional pay), or not work overtime(doesn't work as hard therefore not in the ranks for a promotion). I mean we can cry just because we're not getting what we want, but take a look at what your co workers are doing as well. Also women tend to be spineless, ask for a raise don't expect it. Some bosses are dumbasses that don't notice.

>>174003
I'm not making any claims so I don't have the burden of proof, just saying that the jury is still out. There is no proof or disproof of a like-for-like wage gap. And even if there is proof of one, whether it's due to sexism or other confounding variables is a whole other puzzle to solve. My comment about it being present in some companies is merely a guess, though it's also obviously true in some sense (it'd be almost impossible for there not to be at least a few companies out there that are biased against women, out of millions of companies). And from experience, I know different companies can have drastically different corporate cultures.

I'm just annoyed when people point to that one study and shout "DEBUNKED". It's exactly like the people who say global warming is a "debunked hoax" all because of that email scandal.

>>173977
>He comes to me every night complaining about how lazy the bitches he works with are while he busts his ass. They stand around gossiping & swapping anecdotes when there's tons of work to be done, they pull out their phones every 10 minutes.
Where I work we have the opposite problem - the girls are the ones who do the most work whereas the guys are more likely to just sit around or disappear for a while, or find funky ways to avoid having to come in. The guys also seem to take things way too literally, like I have to explain instructions in detail or show them through the action so they don't wind up making mistakes. My boss prefers hiring women.

I've heard of women being denied raises because their bosses don't want to have to eventually give her maternity leave, regardless of whether the woman has a family or wants one, and also that employers in STEM fields will often hire a man over a woman when given resumes with the same qualifications and different-gendered names (I haven't done any research on the subject but I might if I end up choosing it as a topic for a research paper). I do think there is some element of discrimination contributing to the earnings gap but when people actually think the "wage gap" exists it makes me want to jump out a window.

>>174006
I still wanna see that conflicting evidence doe.

>>'m just annoyed when people point to that one study and shout "DEBUNKED". It's exactly like the people who say global warming is a "debunked hoax" all because of that email scandal.
I can't speak for the motives of all people responding to it but my guess is people wouldn't be pointing to it so much if feminists didn't throw it around like a trump card everywhere as if it's actual evidence of anything. This shit may never be resolved because of how fucked social science is, numbers don't lie though it should hardly be difficult to bring up those conflicting studies you're talking about.

>>174033
Men can opt for maternity leave as well they get less time off since their physiology doesn't change in any way it's part of living in a socialist society it insures flexibility for both parents and proper care for the child. Some countries even have period leave for women it's hardly discrimination to not hire a women because of the legal obligations it's strictly business.

>>(I haven't done any research on the subject but I might if I end up choosing it as a topic for a research paper).
Oh for fuck sake we're in a thread discussing how women are never in STEM because they waste time being homemakers or with crappy arts and sociology shit and you want this shit anon? Instead of doing research into why women aren't in STEM and why the wage gap exists why don't you be the change. You deserve to patronized if you major in anything retarded, not because you're female but because you're a retard.

>>174038
>crappy arts and sociology
Not even them but I immediately discard the opinions of pretentious STEMtards who say stupid shit like this and just assume that there are never the same issues a la inexperience and job oversaturation that accounts for unemployed people with these majors as well. You're dumb and I hope you're not making a fool of yourself by saying this irl. You needed to know.

>>174042
The sad truth is most arts and social science degrees are pretty shitty compared to STEM degrees save for economics, Law, geography, and teaching there's a few that may pertain to practical uses as well in specified programs. Bag on STEMtards all you like projecting art-chan but most are in demand and superior to your degree, heck most tech and engineering degrees get you direct job placement, a B average is usually necessary for fields like STEM and Law but for social science and the like shitty Cs will buy you your worthless degree.

Well why don't you be the change though? There's no excuse for you to be blabbing about how women struggle to catch up to men in regards to STEM and other high paying jobs when in reality you're contributing to their struggle by perpetuating more fucking mass confusion that is already the garbled, subjective-based mess that is social science. Complaining about the lack of change isn't change.

Also discarding the opinion of anyone who disagrees with you're shitty degree is fucking pretentious and fat headed. I don't think all arts and social science is bullocks but the vast majority are they breed mass hysteria and pretentious, self inflated egotistical faggots like yourself while their body of work does the opposite of the actual sciences and simultaneously poisons the well of knowledge for the laymen.

>>You're dumb and I hope you're not making a fool of yourself by saying this irl. You needed to know.
The projection is real are you feeling that grueling 50k debt from a useless degree already? :^)

>>174059
>and teaching
And in instances like these this is where people like you completely bury yourselves because you have no idea what (or actually how little) is required to teach. You can teach with just an English degree. You can teach with a Sociology degree. Theater. Psychology. History. What have you.
You don't specifically have to have an education degree, and in most cases all one needs is a few hours of certification courses and student teaching to become qualified. Some states require an M.A. in addition but that's also very simple for some. Arts degrees are flexible contrary to popular misconception. And if someone was begging desperate for a job and had an arts degree, this is exactly one thing out of many they could do with it.

You're the one projecting that everyone with an arts degree is a starving artist begging for a McJob, and nobody could possibly live comfortable without a fucking STEM degree. Y'know, despite the fact that people with STEM degrees are also suffering and facing the harsh reality that they can't find relevant employment with their degrees. Like my poor friend who is an excellent coder and had a decent job, before his new company moved him to a bumfuck state where they redacted his contract and left him jobless one day. Now he does photography to make money while trying to find a job. Good thing he had that arts skill as a hobby, or he'd have nothing to fall back on and would be on welfare. Or my other friend who got a good coding job for a firm but who had to move to a high-rent area where they're based, so her pay increase became a literal wash.

You must also still be in college because you don't realize that job placement=/=upward mobility, fair benefits, and good pay. My lab tech friend makes $15/hr for doing an assload of work. No healthcare. Poor management. Awful. Unless you break entry level pay grade miraculously, you can be stuck at a shit job with your science degree for years before you get anywhere worthy. So no, quit acting like everyone is being saved via STEM degree automatically. It's arrogant and cues anyone who hears this come from you that you have a very limited perspective on the issue.
>inb4 muh engineering degrees
Same issues, son.

>no excuse for you to be blabbing about how women struggle to catch up to men in regards to STEM
Calm yourself buttraged bill, I'm not the anons you've been arguing with "blabbing" about how women deserve special handicaps for STEM and pay grades if they're not willing to earn it. However, my argument saying women should be free to pursue what they feel they're good at and most comfortable with, which isn't gonna always be STEM, isn't "confusion." What's actually confusing to people is how they're all, no matter the degree, given promises of a better future straight out of college when that doesn't always materialize due to things beyond their control. As a society we put huge delusions of grandeur into young adults' minds and let them sign off on huge student loans. Then when they leave, they get bitchslapped with reality and struggle financially. That's the actual problem.

>they breed mass hysteria and pretentious, self inflated egotistical faggots like yourself

LOL, dat cognitive dissonance doe :^) Faglord.

>>174082
What about science teachers? Maths and science teachers are currently in high demand in my country, you certainly need some STEM background to teach these. Teaching is always in demand because education is essential, PE teachers can be easily replaced with random fucks on the street but math and science are crucial core subjects that require expertise.

it's funny how you can't wait to throw your own field you are attempting to credit under the bus. Arts degrees are a mess with no defined structure therefore getting a job with one is a mess with no guaranteed field to specialize in.

>>Good thing he had that arts skill as a hobby, or he'd have nothing to fall back on and would be on welfare.
Lol no he sort of wasted his CS degree i'm sure being a freelance photographer is a stable and surely in demand job though kek. The technology of the future needs more freelance photographers as you know.

Nigger saying I'm arrogant at least i'm not trying to come across as all knowing of the economy, job market and financial situation of an entire country let alone individuals situations. Your faux wordly knowledge isn't working rando sperg.

>>>inb4 muh engineering degrees
Same issues, son.
>>As a society we put huge delusions of grandeur into young adults' minds and let them sign off on huge student loans.

Do chemical engineering. :^]

You have to admit they do though, it seems I struck a nerve with you kek

You know what is cognitive dissonance
thinking your anecdotal experiences apply to random internet people who likely don't even live in your country.

Now pls no more derailing fam.

>>174107
>science and math teachers
Ok, but why are you moving the goal posts? Wouldn't you have to have familiarity with language arts to teach English instead of chemical engineering? No kidding people are going to teach what they know, but you were suggesting arts people can't become teachers. Which is stupid because you seriously believe those subjects require no amount of expertise or that general educaton teachers don't need to be versed in a bit of everything. Lol.


>he wasted his CS degree
Are you trolling? So anyone who gets laid off or fired from a job 'wasted' their degree? Check yourself because there are oodles of chemical engineers in that very situation. Oh yeah, I'm sure they're all dumbasses who had it coming. Come on.

The reason why I'm saying you have cognitive dissonance is because you said something egotistical and generalizing from the start and said I was the one being that way when I pointed that out. You sound like you have a huge ego, but don't worry, I don't expect all STEM holders to know definitions of words. That's why I copyedit medical papers to make sure you don't sound like twats :^) Now pls stop embarrassing yourself.

>>174107
You're putting a whole lot of faith in teachers anon. In some states there are no requirements for math teachers to even be good at/know math and some good schools will require their PE teachers to have exercise science or kinesiology degrees.