/ot/ - off-topic

>I mean statistically they work out better then love marriages

Isn't that only because the countries in which arranged marriages are typically still practiced a woman can risk imprisonment or lawful murder for attempting a divorce or otherwise attempting to escape the relationship.
Like, they have no choice in the matter so they HAVE to stay in them…

I know that arranged marriages are often still practiced in Japan, but frequently they only last due to the woman relying financially on the male for income and because a divorce permanently stains their and their children's Koseki (family register), and for these kind of relationships the couple often ends up sleeping in separate beds and showing little affection for each other beyond the dude bringing home the ¥¥¥ and the woman carrying out domestic duties.

I want my mum to do this for me but she is lazy ugh. I know that I'd be so much happier if she would pick a butiful rich handsome man out for me.

>>171087
This is the 21st century.

Feminism requires you to stalk your own guy and entrap him into a marriage.(derailing)

>>171086
No, the success of strange marriages is due to simple psychology.

The sheer variety of choice we have in potential partners increases or anxiety over what we choose and decreases our satisfaction.

With around 4 billion potential people to marry we are less likely to be satisfied with who we choose to marry.

Decrease that number to just one, however and the anxiety and doubt created by choice is completely eliminated. You are also forced to look work with the person you have to make the relationship work.

Insteadoff getting a divorce and playing the numbers game all over again an arranged couple is forced to reconcile their differences and learn to love eachother despite what faults they have. The love they create out of necessity ends up being not only stronger but more durable than love created out of choice.

>>171086
>the couple often ends up sleeping in separate beds and showing little affection for each other beyond the dude bringing home the ¥¥¥ and the woman carrying out domestic duties

Honestly, that sounds great.
Where can I sign up?

>>171089
Arranged marriages*

Our anxiety*

Look past problems and work with the person you have the relationship with*

Instead of*

Sorry posting from phone

>>171089
Eros vs. philia

>>171092
No that's an innacurate way to think about it, there can be and often is Eros in an arranged marriage. The difference is in how it developes

I don't think arranged marriages work better imho. Age, whether or not you lived together first, money, income disparity - those are the real nuts and bolts that cause a lot of divorce. I'm not sure how doing it with a stranger makes it easier, unless you're less concerned about making them upset so you feel you can say whatever you want to them.

I think your metric for success is off, honestly.

If the metrics of success are simply not getting divorced, then arranged marriages can appear very successful indeed.

But factor in the high rate of domestic violence or shaming people into staying in an unhealthy marital relationship, then we might get a more accurate picture of arranged marriages.

It's legal to rape your wife in a lot of these countries with arranged marriages, I think the point of view of 'happiness in marriage' is just drastically different.

agreed. they statistically "work better" because it's a lot harder for women to get out of them them.

>>171094
>>171095
Even if we ignore the disparity in divorce rates
>55 percent in regular marriages vs 5 percent in arranged ones

Arranged marriages are still more successful in a host of other categories

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-22/features/sc-fam-0821-arranged-marriage-20120821_1_marriages-free-choice-satisfaction

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363176/Why-arranged-marriage-likely-develop-lasting-love.html

It's an uncomfortable fact to accept because everyone wants to believe in "true love", "Prince Charming" and "fate" but the truth is arranged marriages are statistically in almost all categories more likely to turn out successful

>>171096
? Again, if the divorce rate is your only metric for successful then fine, I really don't think that should be the line in the sand though.

But let's stick with divorce since this is YOUR metric for success. You fail to mention the widespread incidence of dowry harassment, dowry deaths, female infanticide, deep-rooted son preference, and the chronic and persistent gap in education and employment opportunities for men and women. You fail to mention that since divorce is highly stigmatized and difficult to obtain, most women do not leave abusive marriages.You fail fails to mention that since India doesn't have laws for equitable distribution of marital assets, child support and automatic maintenance, most women CANNOT leave a bad marriage, unless they are financially independent.In India, assets belong to the person who owns them. Most marital assets like a house and financial investments, are usually in the husband's name. India doesn't have laws that decree an automatic division of marital assets, nor a law that protects the rights of divorced homemakers.

Subsequently, divorce is unthinkable for Indian women, in the absence of social welfare and child support. Even if child support payment are awarded, they are rarely enforced by the courts, leaving divorced women to fend for themselves.

Marital rape is legal. A wife cannot legally prosecute an unfaithful, adulterous husband, though the law allows a husband to go after the wife's lover.

Male adultery is not an offence, but female adultery is.

Honestly, I think you're way to obsessed with people staying together = happy. I've had divorced friends who tell of their relief when their parents said they were getting a divorce, the stress of the house was just too much.

>>171097
Everything you described here is not due to arranged marriages but the specific cultural trends of India and their society. You are diverting blame onto arranged marriages when the source of these issues comes from a specific culture. You are also ignoring the abuse and problems that come with regular marriages, it may seem like people have more ability to escape them outside of arranged marriages but often it's not the case.

Now let's focus on the statistic you over looked.

Arranged couples felt twice as in love over ten years while love in regular marriages love decreased by half in as little as a year and a half.

This is not just divorce rates but actual love felt by the couple, you are ignoring the psychology involved when we are given choice, which was outlined here>>28477.

Arranged marriages in itself are a better option than regular marriages, do not confuse the perceived issues with the backwardness of a specific culture and it's inability to confront social issues

>>171098
Didn't say anything about abuse in regular marriages, so don't bring it up. I didn't address it, this is about arranged marriages and that's how it's going to stay.

I've known a few arranged marriages (came to study from abroad) where both spouses were actively cheating, and while neither one was okay with it, neither one KNEW the other was cheating.

And yeah, if I had no chance to divorce and was looked down upon as a waste and selfish for divorcing, my response to "are you in love?" would be a resounding "YES" even if I wasn't.

When you are forced accept, forced to marry, forced to live, forced to have sex, forced to have kids, forced to rise kids, forced to marry for the kids in same way, forced to force them to live in the same way, forced to force them to have their kids and forced to play with grand children and finally forced to record the success of life, it means you are using the created data for defined equation and showing the points are very much closely correlated.

>>171099
You are making an overly dramatic argument based on anecdotal evidence and personal qualms about how you perceive the issue already without looking at what the data says.

What you call "being forced" may sound awful but in reality if it leads to greater happiness and greater feelings of love it should not matter how uncomfortable the term makes you feel because it's in reality a better option.

Also it's a little juvenile to ignore data and just claim the participants were lying. I can do the same and make the claim that they were actually even happier than they said they were, it doesn't matter because it's just speculatio based on a prior personal bias.

I wont blame you for that because in western society we are led to believe that our freedom and decision making is where our source of happiness lies when ussually it's where most of our sorrow also comes from. It's uncomfortable and even contradictory to think that something "forced" can be positive and better than our own decision making skills but psychologically it makes a lot of sense.

Your problem with arranged marriages seems to stem from the specific cultural traditions of India, your anecdotal personal biases and fear of lack of control more than anything empirical

ok agruing aside, how do i make sure the guy is good husband material if i tried this? you get shop around kind of, it's not like you meet and marry on the spot

>>171101
this is why I want to depend on my mum for this.
>>171088
too bad

>>171101
Look at how he treats his family

>>171103
I don't like my family. That's really not an accurate assessment.

>>171104
Ahaha, yes it is. He may end up not liking you either in the end and you will be family anyway, make sure he' ll at least treat you with respect

>>171105
This isn't the same poster.
A person's marriage partner are different people from their families. I know someone that has a great marriage with his wife but he's not talking to his parents ever again.

>>171101
Does he treat serving staff (waitresses etc) with respect?
Does he treat animals with respect?
And yes also, if he has a nice family who have been good to him has he returned that?

You can also tell a lot about someone by their friends. Even if someone is nice and just has asshole friends, it means that they are the kind of person who just go along with what others say

>>171107
That's not always a good way to guess. My ex met all of those requirements and he was a manipulative crybaby, most def. not good husband material.

>>171100
In 2012 over 1.4 dowry deaths per 100,000 females were reported in India, against 3.4 homicides per 100,000 women worldwide, according to a UN report. That makes Indian brides account for a full 41 per cent of the global toll of murdered women. Just - just stop anon. Stop.

Also yeah, I'm making this about India. The places where arranged marriages are most common are still the Indian sub continent countries - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, some African & South American countries and middle east. Trying to remove this from their culture is ridiculous, they're tied together inextricably.

>>171101

There is no guarantee. Even after 30 years - people change, situations come up that forever change how you see someone. Some people seem amazing and do a 180 once they get married. You just can't know 100%.

>>171109
Not the person you're replying to but most people on this site are probably living in western countries not middle east or south asia

>divorce rate is a good indication of happiness
wew
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w

>>171097
>if however many people end up hating each other enough to divorce is your metric
Its a pretty good metric, honestly. Especially in today's society were 10% of the population is divorced.

Relationships based solely around love don't work. Love is 1/3 of a successful marriage, with commitment and attachment being the other two. And yes, Attachment is separate from love.

>>171110
Not the farmer you were replying to.

Yes, most people here are living in western countries, but where is the data on happiness in arranged marriages coming from?

>>171113

OP mentions US & Canada.

>>171112
Why do you keep digging up dead threads?

>>171114
I interpreted that as saying that the divorce rates were from Canada and the USA, not the arranged marriage happiness levels. OP could clear it up for us, but she's probably long gone; I didn't realize how old this thread was when I replied to Anon.

Anyone who legitimately thinks it's just "they work" is a fool.
I work in a place where almost everyone is an arranged marriage and they've told me a lot of information.

Love marriages are looked down on because it doesn't benefit the families and people view them as ridiculous (socially). There are also not a lot of opportunities to have love marriages because if men and women speak/hang out together people will talk about you and you get a reputation for being a whore, so no one will marry you and your family will be furious. Even if you do marry for love, a lot of the time your family will disown you for doing so.

Generally your parents will pick out a suitor however it has to benefit the entire family so it has to be somehow a family friend. There needs to be a connection because the 2 families HAVE to get along and support each other, that is the entire point of the system.
People don't get divorced because of this reason, also. The family connection is too strong and it becomes shameful as you're tearing the family apart (although if it's a case of 1 partner beating the other or something it's ok to divorce apparently, people will be understanding).
One of my coworkers married for love and despite being friends with everyone all the arranged married people talk so much shit about her behind her back and mock her marriage, say things like she's so stupid for marrying for love etc.

She told me the story one time and basically she met her husband in college and they dated in secret but her family eventually found out and threatened to disown her if she didn't break up with him. It literally took years of them trying to convince their families to let marry them before it happened (and they had to investigate their entire family tree to find a connection before they would allow it!).
I know all these families and they're all very nice people but the love marriage people had a totally different vibe than the arranged marriage, they were such good friends while the others were pleasant and all but stoic to each other. There is a totally different atmosphere.

The only reason they work out better is because of social pressures in their society, it has nothing got to do with westerners being shit. One of my coworkers also told me more people are getting divorced in her country because women are starting to work now and be more independent (like the west) so they don't have to rely on the husband anymore, if you don't like him you can just leave. She thinks it will become similar to the west in a few more decades.

>>171117

Ive heard of a lot of cases where even if the guy is abusing her the family still pressures her to stay in the marriage.

I have a story about such thing. It's not really arranged marriage, but relatives did arrange dates.
>My grandparents celebrate their 50 years anniversary
>Lots of relatives and friends come
>my older step sister is here too
>predictably, talks turn to discussing marriages
>Step-sister breaks in discussion
>"Remember how you were braging about handsome husband you got for me, when i was a teen? Where is he now?"
>People felt a little awkward.
>One of aunties speaks up "Don't you worry i have a guy on my mind just for you".
>Aunt arranges date for them
>The guy is a son of one of aunt's inlaws
>Fine guy, not ugly, not awkward, generaly nice and cool.
>three years later they are married, got a kid and building their own house in a nice rural area

Well it all went out in a quite traditional slavic way. Back then marriages weren't really arranged, but relatives would arrange dates for their sons/daughters. It practicaly was a date of families, since parents did also had a say if their kid should marry that guy/girl.

I like the system that was prevalent in Europe 100 or so years ago, for most people marriages weren't strictly arranged by your parents still gave input that you were expected to listen to about the viability of certain people as potential marriage partners. They'd arrange social events, depending upon your status, with eligible guys/girls your own age to see who you gelled with the most and so on.

Seems to be a good middle ground.

>>171120
On second thought, I'm basically talking about what you're saying: >>171119

That's how white people did things traditionally. Europe was unusual in that the woman could actually refuse a man legally.

The older I get, the less I believe in love marriages. Passion is shit for a real relationship.

I've always thought the idea sounded really romantic. But there's no way in hell that would happen in my culture.
I mean, relationships fail all the time between people who seem like they would be right for each other. Personalities that match or opposites that attract. People who are so in love…will just fall apart sometimes and it seems like that's just the nature of the heart.
Maybe the key to true love is to be happy with the person you are with and love them for the way they find passion and not for the things they find passion in.
And any abusive assholes can just get thrown in the dungeon and we will move on.

>>171121
Maybe it's just my family, but we still do it like this.
(I'm from Italy)

Nope. I truly enjoy choosing whom I want to marry. Building a relationship is important. If it works for some, that's fine, but it feels so medieval and too 'trade my daughter for a goat' thing to me.

There are many, many factors in why people divorce. It could be something as little as job loss/financial issues or actually losing a child that breaks a couple up. Statistics are fine, but I think personal experience and really building on a great relationship is important. I've been with my soon to be wife for nearly a decade now and would not want anyone else.

>>171086
This is what I feel like. The only reason arranged marriages 'work' is because the woman is shamed into staying with the husband no matter what he does. It's very sexist.

Look at places like India and the middle east.

>>171125
>One decade and you still haven't married her
Damn son

>>171127
Possible they got together at a young age, where marriage was kinda ridiculous for a while like as teens or sth

Anyway, I think some balance between working out a relationship akin to arranged marriages and finding someone you actually like as with love marriages could work. People change so it's all a crapshoot, but I think a lot of people in the west believe in that "spark" of love and believe it would never go out or expect some kind of love where you're always in each other's face about how much you love each other to last forever and that's the main focus of marriage.

I'm not really good at feelings so I'm not even sure I could do a 100% love marriage anyway. Like, I would die old and alone three times over before I ever met someone who had that ~spark~ where I knew it was ~fate~ for us to be together or whatever crap they sell in romance media.

>>171127
Life happens man. I'm in my late 20s now and we were focused on our career. A wedding cost money and so do many other things. I don't feel ashamed. I love this woman more than anyone else and we have a good relationship. Basically money stalls a lot of plans.

>>171129
MARRY HER, FAGGOT!

>>171129
Lol why are people so mad about you and your girl spending your money on living and not a party?
Weddings are important if you both really want one, but making responsible choices with your finances is cool.

>>171131
They could've had a budget wedding or a courthouse wedding. As is, if anon or his fiancee have any serious medical issues or die they could have issues as unrelated non family members.

>>171131
They could've had a budget wedding or a courthouse wedding. As is, if anon or his fiancee have any serious medical issues or die they could have issues as unrelated non family members.

>>171131
Yeah, I believe it's all personal. (I'm a woman btw/lesbian.)
I truly believe that everyone does shit differently and what works for me might not work for others. Don't want to get too personal, but our relationship is solid but she want and I want a certain type of wedding and we can both save up and wait. We're in much more stable places now, so it's closer than you think. I'm really happy about all of this.

>>171130
I'm gonna!

>>171132
It's all good. Money problems are something lots of working class people can't escape, but it's always a temporary problem, which is fine. In a better place financially now.

>>171134
I was mostly playing devil's advocate with the budget wedding planning etc. I'm glad for you, farmer.